Rob West: Money can tell you how much you have, but it makes a terrible answer to the question, "Who am I?" I am Rob West. Wealth is a gift to steward, but it was never meant to become our identity. Today, we'll see why scripture points us toward something far more lasting, and then we'll take your phone calls at 800-525-7000. That's 800-525-7000. This is faith and finance on American Family Radio, biblical wisdom for your financial decisions.
Well, have you ever noticed what happens in scripture when wealth becomes someone's identity? There's the rich fool, the rich young ruler, and the rich man who lived while a poor man named Lazarus suffered outside his gate. We know what these men possessed. We know how they related to their possessions, but we don't know their names. And perhaps that's the point the authors are making. They looked to wealth for something it could never truly give them: security, significance, even identity. And in the stories themselves, that's ultimately what they became known by. Consider Luke 16. Jesus introduces two men. One is extraordinarily wealthy, dressed in purple and fine linen, and feasting lavishly every day. Outside his gate lies a poor man covered with sores, longing for scraps from the rich man's table. And then comes a striking contrast. The poor man has a name: Lazarus. The rich man doesn't. The world might have known the rich man's name and overlooked Lazarus entirely. But in Jesus' telling, it's reversed. Lazarus is known by name. The other man is simply a rich man.
There's something sobering about that. This man had built a life surrounded by the markers of earthly significance. But when Jesus tells his story, his wealth is practically all that identifies him. Then consider another story in Luke 12: A wealthy landowner has such an abundant harvest that he runs out of room to store it. So he decides to tear down his barns, build larger ones, and tell himself, "Soul, you have ample goods laid up for many years; relax, eat, drink, be merry". Again, we never learn his name. We know him simply as the rich fool. His problem wasn't that his farm succeeded or that he possessed an abundance. His problem was that his possessions had become the basis of his security.
Listen to his language: "My crops, my barns, my grain, my goods". His entire world had collapsed inward around what he possessed. He had accumulated enough to believe that he had secured his own future. But God says in Luke 12:20, "Fool, this night your soul is required of you". He had plenty of possessions, but they couldn't tell him who he was before God.
Then there's the man we commonly call the rich young ruler. In Mark 10, he comes to Jesus asking what he must do to inherit eternal life. We learn that he has great possessions. And when Jesus exposes the hold those possessions have on his heart, the man walks away sorrowful. Again, we remember him largely by what he possessed.
You see the pattern? When wealth becomes your identity, it eventually reduces you rather than enlarges you. And our culture constantly invites us to make the same mistake: we're wealthy, middle-class, homeowners, investors, retirees, high earners, or perhaps we define ourselves from the opposite direction—struggling, broke, behind, unsuccessful. But none of those descriptions can bear the weight of telling you who you are. Money is something God entrusts to you. It's a terrible place to seek your identity.
Because scripture offers something infinitely better. Paul writes in Colossians 3:3-4, "For you have died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God. When Christ, who is your life, appears, then you also will appear with him in glory". Think about those words: Christ is your life. Christians don't have to construct an identity from possessions, accomplishments, income, or status. Our identity is received. We belong to Christ.
And that means the deepest truth about you cannot rise and fall with your net worth. Markets can fall and businesses can fail, careers can end, retirement accounts can shrink, and even if your wealth continues growing for the rest of your life, eventually you'll leave every dollar behind. But if you belong to Christ, the truest thing about you can never appear on a balance sheet. So manage money wisely, save, invest, provide for your family, enjoy God's provision with gratitude, and be generous with what he has entrusted to you. Just don't ask wealth to tell you who you are.
As John D. Rockefeller Jr. once put it, "The poorest man I know is the man who has nothing but money". Wealth makes a poor identity. But to be known by God, to belong to Christ, to have your life hidden with him—that's a treasure no financial loss can touch, and no amount of money could ever buy.
I hope that's encouraging to you today. We'll be right back.
SEGMENT 2
Rob West: Delighted to have you with us today on Faith and Finance here on American Family Radio. Well, we're going to begin taking your calls in just a moment. So if you've got a question today, now is the time to call. Patty's standing by ready to take your phone call and we'll get you on the air quickly. Here's what we'd love to hear from you about. You know, if you're thinking about your financial life, you're wrestling with the decision you have right now, and you want to think about it in light of biblical wisdom, no matter the issue. It could be that you're trying to get your credit score up, pay down some debt, invest for the future, give wisely, prepare the next steward, get your estate plan in order. Any number of things, maybe it's several of them. We'd love to hear from you today and be able to help you navigate your financial life in light of biblical wisdom. Because God's word has a lot to say about this subject.
You may be surprised to know that it's the most talked about topic in God's word other than love. More than salvation, it's talked about. Why is that? Well, it's not because God wants something from us, in my mind. It's because God wants something for us. It all belongs to him. He knows it can rival our hearts. This has been true for thousands of years. You go back to, you know, the Babylonian times. I mean, they would carry their gold statues in parades through the streets, and God reminded them, "I am your God. Nothing else." And so we've been replacing God with false idols for a long, long time. This is nothing new. And yet, in the most prosperous nation in the history of the world today, we're doing that again. You know, we can look to money to provide security and significance. Well, the problem is, a created thing cannot do that. That's the role of the creator. And so when money goes in its proper place, it's not on the throne of our lives. God is on the throne of our lives. Jesus is our ultimate treasure. Money then is a tool. It's a good gift. It doesn't have to be a source of frustration in marriage. It doesn't have to be something you're constantly fighting against. It can be that tool that allows you to enjoy God's provision, create memories with your family, be involved in giving that advances the gospel and engages the culture.
That's why we talk a lot about your partnership with us here at American Family Radio and AFA, and your giving to AFA helps in part to advance the gospel, and to build up the church, and to equip God's people. Well, that's a productive use of this good gift called money, again, so long as it doesn't become the object of our affection. We see very clearly, we talked about it in the opening segment today, how the rich fool is such a clear example of where we have misplaced priorities. His problem, well, his entire view of success began and ended with him. There was no recognition of the source of his abundance. He uses the word "my" or "I" like nine times in just a couple of verses. My grain, my goods, my barns, my harvest. There's no acknowledgment of God as the giver of everything, and there's no acknowledgment of the fact that he doesn't need to let God's provision stop with him. It can be a flowing through him. He can be the conduit into God's activity. Well, as a result, we know in that story at least, God said, "You're a fool," and his life was demanded of him. That does not need to be our stories. Our stories is to see what Jesus has done on our behalf, to respond to the grace extended to us, and live a generous life as an overflow to what God has entrusted to us. It begins with gratitude. It begins with understanding the significance of the grace that has been bestowed upon us, that God's promises are true and God is sufficient. All sufficient in our lives to fill all of our needs. That longing that we have, that God-sized space that we have in our lives, we shouldn't try to fill that with anything man-made. So we want to help you navigate that in light of biblical wisdom.
But we also want to help you deal with those very specific issues and questions you have in your financial life. So, lines are open. Call right now: 800-525-7000. That's 800-525-7000. Speaking of money being out of its proper place, let's talk about sports betting.
In the news today, Wall Street may soon offer sports fans a new way to bet on their favorite teams, and it's being marketed as investing. Several financial firms have filed proposals with the Securities and Exchange Commission to launch exchange-traded funds—we talk about these often, ETFs—but tied to the performance of individual Major League Baseball and NHL teams. That's right. Unlike traditional investments, these funds wouldn't give investors ownership in a team. Instead, their value would fluctuate based on team statistics, such as runs scored, strikeouts, and other performance measures. I know. Sounds like a disaster. Financial experts warn that these products blur the line between investing and gambling, and that's particularly concerning given the growing influence of sports betting. Sports betting isn't harmless entertainment for everyone. For some, it becomes a destructive cycle of chasing losses and accumulating debt and hiding financial struggles from loved ones. What begins as a small wager can eventually threaten marriages and families and certainly financial stability. For Christ followers, this raises an important question: Are we faithfully stewarding God's resources or risking them in pursuit of quick financial gains? We take you to Proverbs 13:11 from the NLT: Wealth from get-rich-quick schemes quickly disappear. Wealth from hard work grows over time. I don't think you can say it any plainer than that. Sports can be a wonderful source of enjoyment, it can be a great community building activity, certainly a lot of fun, but we should be cautious when entertainment becomes an invitation to gambling. God calls us to steward his provision with wisdom and self-control, not place it at unnecessary risk for the thrill of a wager. We need to be on our guard there. You know, sports betting is becoming so prevalent in our society, and it's happening younger and younger, and unfortunately it's being normalized, you know, especially as some of the big brands like ESPN and others get involved, and we're seeing these sports betting platforms show up as sponsors of these programs. And so you've got young athletes just seeing the promotion of this sports betting, just thinking this is normal, and unfortunately it's causing a lot of destruction, and I think we're just at the tip of the iceberg. And you only have to look at some of the dramatic increases in revenue from companies like DraftKings and others to see this is not going away. In fact, it's growing dramatically. So we need to be on our guard there.
I think this is a great example of where we need to step in and use wisdom from God's word to be on our guard to educate those in our lives, especially the next generation, around the dangers and draw this distinction between gambling and investing. Because remember, and we get this question a lot on this program, are we gambling when we invest? And the answer is no, because here's the difference: it's not a zero-sum game. Investing is ownership in real companies with real sales and earnings. And by the way, business, productive activity is a part of of God's design. I mean, think about it. Every dollar that finds its way into a local church or a ministry ultimately starts in business that's then paid out to individuals who then give to support. And business should be, when it provides goods and services, good for people and serve people. It creates human flourishing. It takes God's creation and it puts it to work in a way that's productive and helpful for all of us. So when we invest in that and we have an ownership position in a company, that's not a gambling position as long as you're not trying to make a quick move in or out to make a buck and you have a long-term perspective. Definitely God-honoring, absolutely reinforced by the parable of the talents, among other places. It's a part of God's design. All right, your questions after this break. Call right now. We'll be right back.
SEGMENT 3
Rob West: Helping you see God as your ultimate treasure, money a tool, this is Faith and Finance on American Family Radio. I'm Rob West. We're taking your questions today, anything financial. Call right now 800-525-7000. That's 800-525-7000. Let's head out to Texas. Joel, how can we help?
Joel: Yes. Good morning.
Rob West: Hi there.
Joel: Uh, yes, uh, I have a traditional IRA that I'm uh, thinking of converting it to a Roth IRA. Is there any consequence in uh, doing so?
Rob West: Yeah. Yeah, you know, it's uh, generally, I I like the idea. It's all about the timing. Um, but this can be a good strategy. The key question is always whether paying taxes today will save taxes later. So let's talk about the difference between the two. Uh, contributions into a a traditional IRA are generally tax deductible. Uh, the withdrawals then are generally taxable. So you get the deduction when it goes in, it grows tax-deferred, then when you take it out, you pay tax on it as income. Uh, you have required minimum distributions starting at age 73, so you likely have those now, and then again, taxes are deferred. The Roth IRA is made with after-tax dollars, or in the case of a conversion, you pay the tax at the time of the conversion, and then the money grows tax-free and the withdrawals are tax-free, and there are no required minimums during the original owner's lifetime. Um, so with the Roth conversion, uh, you pay the ordinary income tax on the taxable amount converted that year. Now, is it a good idea at age 75 in your situation? Well, the potential downside would be that you're creating an immediate tax bill, it could push you into a higher tax bracket, it could increase your part B and D Medicare premiums (that wouldn't happen for two years, but it could come down the road), and it could cause a larger portion of your Social Security benefits to become taxable because depending on how much income you have, and remember this conversion would be income, you know, that determines whether zero or 50% or as much as 85% of your Social Security benefits are included in your taxable income for the year, and that, you know, conversion could, you know, cause more of it to become taxable. And then one important distinction would be because you're already subject to required minimums, you have to take your required minimum before converting any additional IRA funds to the year, uh, to the Roth, so the required minimum can't be converted either. So that's just additional income that we've got a factor in. So, I would say because of all of those things, Joel, I generally discourage converting, uh, you know, certainly not an an entire IRA all at once without calculating the tax consequences. Uh, you'd certainly want to look at doing smaller partial Roth conversions, but, you know, you also are going to want to probably work with your CPA to consider the factors I mentioned just to see is this going to push us into a higher bracket, is this going to increase my Medicare a couple of years down the road, and will this cause more Social Security benefits to become taxable? Also, what is your goal? Do you believe, you know, you're in a, you know, you're by paying the tax today, you're paying less tax than you would later um or, you know, do you want your heirs not to have to pay any taxes on it, which they wouldn't with a Roth and they certainly would with a traditional IRA? So, I know there's a lot of factors there. Give me your thoughts on all that.
Joel: Well, uh, one was, uh, when I um, when the Lord calls me home or whatnot, you know, I mean, uh, due to my, um, my children, you know, having to pay no taxes on that, on that IRA, you know, but, uh, considering everything that you just mentioned, I think it's best for me to just go ahead and live it as a traditional, uh, IRA, even though it seems, uh, better to have a Roth IRA, but I think it would push me to a higher bracket.
Rob West: Yeah, and that's where I think it would, at the very least, it would be helpful for you if, if you use a CPA and if not, maybe you, uh, you would work with one this year, just to do some of that analysis because he or she could help you calculate, you know, what that might look like. There is a strategy where people will quote "fill up the bracket." So, let's say you have a certain amount of income and that puts you in the, I'll just pick one, 22% bracket, and, you know, you could convert another $30,000 and stay in that bracket, you know, that might be the amount that you'd want to go ahead and convert. But you do need to look, or the CPA could look at the other side of that, which is what would that do to Medicare two years later and what would that do to our Social Security taxation? But you are correct in that, you know, one of the primary reasons that, uh, people do these Roth conversions is the opportunity to leave money to children with a tax-free inheritance. And, you know, it's a wonderful way to leave more of what you've worked for to, you know, them because they're not having to pay tax on it taxes on it when they get it. And keep in mind, you know, they're often, if they're in the prime of their working years versus you in your retirement years, they're often going to be in a higher bracket than you are now. And what a gift for you to go ahead and kind of prepay that tax and, and then be able to receive that, you know, without any tax whatsoever. But as exciting as that is, I just want you to work alongside your CPA to be thoughtful about how much to convert, if any, in any given year, just so you're not surprised by the taxation, you know, that will result.
Joel: So, uh, I think it's just, uh, best for me to just go ahead and, uh, keep this, keep it as it is even though I have to pay, uh, I have to purge a certain amount due to my age from that IRA every year.
Rob West: Yeah, that's right. You have that required minimum that started a couple of years ago. Let me also mention one other thing, um, and that is a qualified charitable distribution. Are you familiar with that term?
Joel: Well, I've heard it a lot, you know, through, uh, your program, but, uh, I'm not really familiar with.
Rob West: Okay. Let's do this. You're welcome to just, uh, hang up and listen, but when we come back from the break, I do want to mention that because the QCD is one of the most compelling giving opportunities for someone who's over 75 and has a traditional IRA, and I'll explain the details right after this break. Stay with us. We'll be right back.
SEGMENT 4
Rob West: So glad to have you with us today on Faith and Finance here on American Family Radio. I'm Rob West. We've got some lines open today. Our team is standing by. We'd love to tackle your financial question, whatever you're thinking about as you give, save, and spend God's money. We want to help you make those decisions in light of biblical wisdom. So call right now, 800-525-7000. We can get you on the air quickly, 800-525-7000. We would love to hear from you today.
Before the break, um, we had the opportunity to talk about a Roth conversion for a gentleman who's 75, and right at the tail end of that, we talked briefly about a qualified charitable distribution. This is one of the most powerful giving tools. I don't want you to miss this. This is particularly for someone who is age 70 and a half—I know it's kind of particular, 70 and a half or older—and it allows you to give money directly from your IRA to a qualified charity. So think your church or American Family Association or FaithFi, any 501(c)(3) not-for-profit organization. You can give from your IRA to the qualified charity without paying income taxes on that distribution.
Now, one of the things people often get confused about here is you're not getting a deduction, so it's not an added deduction, which is actually helpful because it doesn't have anything to do with whether or not you take the standard deduction or not. The tax benefit is that it never becomes taxable. So remember, when you put the money in the traditional IRA—whether you put it into a 401(k) and then rolled it over, or you went straight into the traditional IRA—the contribution was excluded from your taxable income. So you didn't pay tax on the money going in, and then you invested it, and there's not been any taxes while it's been growing. And so it was in stocks or ETFs or mutual funds, and maybe it's been in there 20 years or so, and maybe longer, and all of the gains have been deferred, and then typically as you pull the money out of that traditional IRA, it's added to your taxable income as income in the year of the withdrawal.
In this case, when it goes straight from your IRA to a qualified charity, a 501(c)(3), it never—you never pay the tax on it. So we didn't pay the tax on it going in, we don't have any taxes while it's growing, and now it's coming out tax-free. Well, that's amazing. Why do they do that? Well, that's the qualified charitable distribution. It goes straight from the IRA to the charity, and this is an important distinction: it has to go direct from the IRA custodian. You might say, "Well, what is a custodian?" Well, that's the company that you get the statements from, that houses the account, that is the one who places the trades if you were to buy and sell an investment. That's your custodian. It goes straight from the custodian, doesn't come to you, and goes straight to an eligible charity. And again, you can't claim the deduction, but it's never taxable. That's the real benefit.
So what does that mean? Well, it means it helps you give more generously because you're able to support a ministry or your church or a charity while not adding anything to your taxable income. And here's the other really important distinction that works in your favor: it counts toward your required minimum distribution, which doesn't start at 70 and a half, but it does start at 73. And so if you're required to take a required minimum from your IRA, the QCD can satisfy some or all of that requirement.
Well, why is that important? Well, a lot of the people that I talk to here on this program have to take the required minimum each year because they're 73 or older, and they don't need the money. They're living on Social Security, they've got a pension, they've got other assets. They're saying, "Listen, I haven't been using this, I don't need to use it, but the government's making me take it out". Well, here's one of the strategies that can make a lot of sense is you're already doing your giving, perhaps out of your checking or your savings account. You know, you're tithing to your church, or you're giving to AFA, or you're a partner here at FaithFi, and you're making those contributions out of after-tax dollars.
If you did nothing else but just replace your current giving that you're already doing with after-tax dollars with your IRA, that allows you to satisfy that required minimum, doesn't add anything to your taxable income for the year, and you just do the same giving. Now, for some people, it allows them to do far more giving than they have been doing or were planning to do, because you can do more than $100,000 from your, uh, through your qualified charitable distribution.
And so, let's say you're someone—and I realize this isn't everyone listening today, but let's say you're someone who has way more than you need. You're sitting with an IRA that has, by God's grace, millions of dollars in it, and you don't plan to use that. Now, you have every intention to give it generously at death. Maybe you're going to leave it to some heirs, and part of that is in your estate to go to your church or your favorite ministry, and you're excited about that, and that's a good thing. But if you have way more than you need right now, what if you started to do what Ron Blue says in his book Splitting Heirs—doing your giving while you're living so you know where it's going, right?
And now, all of a sudden, you're doing some hilarious giving that we see in God's word, the cheerful giving of $100,000 perhaps that allows you to do more than you could have ever thought possible. What an incredible opportunity to get more into God's kingdom today rather than just letting it sit there in your IRA and grow. Nothing wrong with that, but couldn't we get part of that into God's kingdom to be growing and compounding for all of eternity? I kind of like that idea.
So that's the qualified charitable distribution. It's as simple as a phone call to your IRA custodian to say, "I'm over 70 and a half. Will you send a check straight to my church?" And when that gets there, they acknowledge it, let you know that they got it, give you a contribution receipt. And then when you file your tax return, your custodian will acknowledge it as a distribution, but then there's a line that allows you to say, "This was a qualified charitable distribution so that that amount doesn't become taxable even though they do the 1099-R that shows that the money came out, but there's a way to to show it as being qualified charitable, therefore you don't pay any taxes on it".
So, I know that was a long explanation, but I just want you to fully grasp the opportunity here to avoid income taxes, to count toward your RMD, to help you give generously—perhaps far more generously than you thought possible—because now you're giving out of your IRA, not creating any kind of major tax liability, not increasing your Medicare premiums, not causing more of your Social Security to be taxable because it's not a taxable distribution, doesn't require you to itemize to get the benefit. And we're getting more into God's kingdom, which is a triple win there, maybe a quadruple.
So, let me just finish with an example, okay? So, if you're required to withdraw $10,000 from your IRA this year—that's your RMD—and then you send that same 10,000 straight to your church from your IRA, you're going to satisfy your RMD, you won't owe any income tax on that distribution, and now your church gets 100% of that money to put to work into God's kingdom. Sounds like a pretty exciting win to me. You know, I think that's the opportunity that we want to look at, and and keep this in mind too, um, you know, that so often we give out of cash.
In fact, do you know that 90% of giving happens in the form of cash? What does that mean—physical dollars? No, it's just coming out of your checking or your savings, cash and cash equivalents, right? We write a check, we do an auto-debit, we literally put money in the plate. That's how 90% of our giving happens. You know how much money we have of of our total net worth, how much do we have in the form of cash? Only about 10%. Where's the rest of our wealth? It's on our balance sheet. It's in our home, and it's in our stock portfolios, and it's in our IRA. Your greatest opportunity for giving is on your balance sheet. It's from your net worth. So giving from your IRA allows you to do far more giving than you perhaps ever thought possible.
All right, a break and then Jerry Boyer, stick around.
SEGMENT 5
Rob West: Great to have you with us today on Faith and Finance here on American Family Radio. We're here in our final segment. Jerry Bowyer's here, where we talk the markets, we talk the economy, we also talk corporate engagement. All right, Jerry, uh, have you put your reservation in for the new Tesla Roadster, the flying car?
Jerry Bowyer: Yes, I have for 2050. It'll take me that long to afford it. But yeah, I got my bid in. That's pretty cool. I got to tell you, I love this stuff. So, Peter Thiel is one of Elon Musk's closest friends, and he once said, "We were promised flying cars, and all we got was 240 characters." He was complaining that all the technological advances were things like social media, Twitter, and not real-world stuff. And one of the things that I just love about what's currently going on in the American economy is—look, I'm all in favor of computer technology, but we really focused on bits, information, electrons. We didn't focus on atoms. We didn't focus on heavy stuff. And now we are. We're sending rockets into space, we're doing flying cars, we're doing an industrial renaissance. You don't have a full economy made up of nothing but information. We can't all make a living sending each other emails all day, right? It's actually got to be something happening in the real world, and we're back to that, and I think Musk is just a huge part of that.
Rob West: We've got to build things. I like that we're building things. Now, as you pointed out though on a call we were on yesterday with the Kingdom Advisors, you know, we're not seeing the resurgence necessarily in the manufacturing that we had hoped at least at this point in the Trump economy, right?
Jerry Bowyer: No, we aren't. Manufacturing jobs have kind of lagged behind, and to the degree that we have manufacturing job growth, it's been more with data centers. I'm all for that. I know that's controversial. I think that's great for the economy, but that's still for the most part information. That's something that helps us do search engines better or help write memos better or ask questions or, you know, make little songs or whatever. That's still us online staring at screens for the most part. It's not yet robots running factories, and I think the reason that that's happening is because the whole AI world is something that President Trump has exempted from his trade war. So the trade war is basically dealing with a lot of things. Dealing with food, dealing with, you know, heavy industry, but he's basically given a pass to the world of AI and chips. Well, then that's where the capital's going because that's where we don't have, you know, essentially kind of high taxes, which make it harder to do. But if he's tariffing—we talked yesterday about copper or whatever—well, that makes it harder to do a real manufacturing renaissance. So what I'm seeing is a lot of announcements. See a lot of that. Here in Pittsburgh, announcement that Tokyo is investing this much, etc., etc. But that's not reality yet, and I don't think it's going to be reality until we have clear trade policy, but there's another deeper problem to solve. Until we have a work ethic revival, a Christian work ethic revival that gets people out of the basements and back from behind the screens and arguing with each other on social media and playing video games, and actually out there working in those factories. And that's something that we're kind of working on here. We got a little project, I can say more about it later, where we've got to get people actually out into the physical workforce. And until we have those things, we're not going to get that industrial golden age that we've talked about. But we could get it. Those are solvable problems, but they're still there.
Rob West: Yeah. Jerry, as you just assess the state of the economy—I know you talked some about this yesterday—looking at some of your favorite indicators, copper among others, what is your take on where we're at right now?
Jerry Bowyer: Well, the global economy is probably better than the U.S. economy, and that's largely driven by emerging markets. I know people are talking about an American renaissance, and there's a lot great going on, but here's the wonderful thing: when things go well for us, things tend to also go well for our providers. You know, emerging markets sell us the copper, right, and the rare earth minerals and the other commodities, etc. So that's why emerging markets has been a strong performer compared to developed markets, including the United States of America. Europe is kind of flat on its back, and it might be forever. This might be it, or God might send them renewal and reformation and everything, and they might become a great civilization again. So I also like surveys of people who actually run things, purchasing managers. You know, my picture—it's a little obsolete—is the guy whose office is next to the loading dock who's got a bunch of Post-it notes up on his wall. Now, he doesn't have Post-it notes anymore, you know, it's in project manager or whatever, but somebody who's like really close to that process of getting things built, sourcing the materials, making sure that we're keeping up with inventory. And those people are pretty optimistic about the U.S. economy. Those indices go from 0 to 100, and they've been floating now around like 55 or 56, which is expansionary territory, but not booming territory. So I think our third quarter is going to be pretty strong. I think basically, though, we're growing at slightly less than long-term American average. And you say, "Yeah, but the President did all these tax cuts." Yes, he did tax cuts, and I salute them. He also did tax hikes, because tariffs are tax hikes. So we've got some things pulling for us, we've got some things pulling against us. In general, I think we have things pulling for us. In general, I think the policy mix is positive, which is why we can have a war in the Middle East and oil well over $100 a barrel, and still not have a recession, because the underlying strength of the U.S. economy is still that strong.
Rob West: Mm, yeah. That's helpful, Jerry. Well said. All right, let's turn the corner here and talk about your work in corporate engagement. I know you work closely with the team, Walker and the team at AFA, and you and the Bowyer Research team are engaging with a lot of companies. Tell us what you've been working on.
Jerry Bowyer: Well, so far AFA has filed shareholder proposals at Apple, at Bank of New York Mellon, at Costco, and at Goldman Sachs. And one of the topics—there's some pattern here—some of it is about discrimination against faith-based organizations in employee gift match. That's not a good thing to do, and if employee gift match is supposed to honor your employees, saying to some employees, "Hey, if you want to give to American Atheists Association..." I actually asked that to a company this week. I think it was Cisco. I said, "So you won't match to churches." "Well, unless it's like a secular purpose, like a soup kitchen, but if it involves proselytization," I think they said on their website, "then no." And I said, "Well, why not?" And then they just repeated that they don't do it. Yeah, but why not? Why is church or a synagogue an inferior form of charity and not worthy of charitable match? And they don't have an answer to that, because what answer could there be? Most charity in the—you just talked about most charity is cash, right? Where does most charity in America go? Most of it's not going to colleges and universities, and it's not going to advocacy groups or whatever, or NGOs. Where's most of it going? You know. Where's most of yours going? Where's most of mine going? Where's most of everybody listening to us right now, where is most of their money going? Churches. That's where that is the solid core of American philanthropy at the grassroots level. Now, huge foundations don't give to churches, that skews it, but ordinary people, like the people who work for these companies, they're typically giving to churches. So to say to them, "Yes, we will honor your charitable spirit, just so long as it ain't a church," that sends a message. And maybe they don't know they're sending that message. Frequently, I hear them say, "I don't know, why do we do that?" And they look at each other, "Well, it's been that way as far as I can remember." Well, I know why you do it. There's a group called Benevity that administers most of these charitable grant programs for companies, and they're very Southern Poverty Law Center-aligned. They don't seem to like us, and so they put in these settings into this program where if the company says, "Look, this is too complicated for us, we want you to handle the charitable match program," they say, "Thank you," and they put in hate group filters, for example, and they put in filters against giving to churches and synagogues and mosques. And overwhelmingly when we talk to companies, they don't know that Benevity did that. So you've got somebody who's got a problem with us who's in there writing the software that has caused a lot of anti-Christian bias, and indeed Jewish bias as well, and anti-Muslim bias. So let's just call it anti-religious bias. So our argument with these folks is, if you're honoring your employees, you're going to honor their choice. And if it's a bona fide 501(c)(3), if the IRS says this is a 501(c)(3) charity, that ought to be good enough for you, unless it's on a terrorist watch list or something like that, then you ought to be honoring that. And I asked actual one of them, say to your board, "Can we give to the American Atheists Association, but we can't give to First Baptist?" Because these restrictions don't seem to apply to atheistic groups or anti-religious groups like Freedom From Religion Foundation. Well, how can you possibly think that that's fair? But no one's ever asked them that question before. I could see by the shocked look on their face, and by AFA saying, "We're going to pledge our shares, and we're going to go to a meeting, or we're going to send Bowyer to a meeting to ask these questions," it is creating an intellectual shock in corporate boardrooms where they're being asked questions that they are not prepared to answer, and in about half the cases, they're thinking about it and they're coming back with the right answer.
Rob West: Wow, Jerry, that's incredible and really meaningful, not only for the employees, but just the implications of what that means terms of the dollars going out. What about some of the other projects? We have just a minute and a half left. Anything else you want to highlight?
Jerry Bowyer: Yes, I think we are going to be spending a lot of time talking to healthcare providers about guidelines which seem to favor having companies paying for sexual transition treatments for minors. We think that this is a very risky thing, and the companies have not fully taken into account the risk. And we talk to companies, they say, "Well, we just do whatever Aetna says," or "We just do whatever Humana says," or "We just do whatever UnitedHealth Care says." And we've said to the companies, "Well, you can get sued separately. Doesn't matter what they say." But then we decided, well, let's talk to those underlying companies and ask them, why are they covering this? Are they recommending it, and are they taking into account the risk? Just another thing—well, there's so many that we're thinking about. I'm just looking at the Netflix situation with the Narnia movie right now. I'm a huge C.S. Lewis fan. Our youngest son is named after him, and I'm just wondering what engagement opportunities there are in situations where media and entertainment companies are essentially setting their brand and shareholder capital on fire to produce subversive content that undermines Christian content, like they did with Disney did with A Wrinkle in Time, and is there a need to be some accountability for that, because these things tend to tank at the box office.
Rob West: Yeah. Well, a perfect opportunity to start a conversation, hopefully that leads to a productive outcome. Jerry, I'm glad you're on the job, my friend, doing incredible work. Thanks for sharing.
Jerry Bowyer: Well, thanks for helping me get on that job. You were a big part of it.
Rob West: Well, thank you. Lord bless you, my friend. Have a great weekend.
Jerry Bowyer: Bless you. Bye.
Rob West: That's Jerry Bowyer. He's our resident economist, joins us each Friday in this segment with an update on the market, the economy, and the latest work in corporate engagement. Big thanks to my team today: Devin, Michael, Patty, Aften, and everybody
Rob West: Money can tell you how much you have, but it makes a terrible answer to the question, "Who am I?" I am Rob West. Wealth is a gift to steward, but it was never meant to become our identity. Today, we'll see why scripture points us toward something far more lasting, and then we'll take your phone calls at 800-525-7000. That's 800-525-7000. This is faith and finance on American Family Radio, biblical wisdom for your financial decisions.
Well, have you ever noticed what happens in scripture when wealth becomes someone's identity? There's the rich fool, the rich young ruler, and the rich man who lived while a poor man named Lazarus suffered outside his gate. We know what these men possessed. We know how they related to their possessions, but we don't know their names. And perhaps that's the point the authors are making. They looked to wealth for something it could never truly give them: security, significance, even identity. And in the stories themselves, that's ultimately what they became known by. Consider Luke 16. Jesus introduces two men. One is extraordinarily wealthy, dressed in purple and fine linen, and feasting lavishly every day. Outside his gate lies a poor man covered with sores, longing for scraps from the rich man's table. And then comes a striking contrast. The poor man has a name: Lazarus. The rich man doesn't. The world might have known the rich man's name and overlooked Lazarus entirely. But in Jesus' telling, it's reversed. Lazarus is known by name. The other man is simply a rich man.
There's something sobering about that. This man had built a life surrounded by the markers of earthly significance. But when Jesus tells his story, his wealth is practically all that identifies him. Then consider another story in Luke 12: A wealthy landowner has such an abundant harvest that he runs out of room to store it. So he decides to tear down his barns, build larger ones, and tell himself, "Soul, you have ample goods laid up for many years; relax, eat, drink, be merry". Again, we never learn his name. We know him simply as the rich fool. His problem wasn't that his farm succeeded or that he possessed an abundance. His problem was that his possessions had become the basis of his security.
Listen to his language: "My crops, my barns, my grain, my goods". His entire world had collapsed inward around what he possessed. He had accumulated enough to believe that he had secured his own future. But God says in Luke 12:20, "Fool, this night your soul is required of you". He had plenty of possessions, but they couldn't tell him who he was before God.
Then there's the man we commonly call the rich young ruler. In Mark 10, he comes to Jesus asking what he must do to inherit eternal life. We learn that he has great possessions. And when Jesus exposes the hold those possessions have on his heart, the man walks away sorrowful. Again, we remember him largely by what he possessed.
You see the pattern? When wealth becomes your identity, it eventually reduces you rather than enlarges you. And our culture constantly invites us to make the same mistake: we're wealthy, middle-class, homeowners, investors, retirees, high earners, or perhaps we define ourselves from the opposite direction—struggling, broke, behind, unsuccessful. But none of those descriptions can bear the weight of telling you who you are. Money is something God entrusts to you. It's a terrible place to seek your identity.
Because scripture offers something infinitely better. Paul writes in Colossians 3:3-4, "For you have died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God. When Christ, who is your life, appears, then you also will appear with him in glory". Think about those words: Christ is your life. Christians don't have to construct an identity from possessions, accomplishments, income, or status. Our identity is received. We belong to Christ.
And that means the deepest truth about you cannot rise and fall with your net worth. Markets can fall and businesses can fail, careers can end, retirement accounts can shrink, and even if your wealth continues growing for the rest of your life, eventually you'll leave every dollar behind. But if you belong to Christ, the truest thing about you can never appear on a balance sheet. So manage money wisely, save, invest, provide for your family, enjoy God's provision with gratitude, and be generous with what he has entrusted to you. Just don't ask wealth to tell you who you are.
As John D. Rockefeller Jr. once put it, "The poorest man I know is the man who has nothing but money". Wealth makes a poor identity. But to be known by God, to belong to Christ, to have your life hidden with him—that's a treasure no financial loss can touch, and no amount of money could ever buy.
I hope that's encouraging to you today. We'll be right back.
SEGMENT 2
Rob West: Delighted to have you with us today on Faith and Finance here on American Family Radio. Well, we're going to begin taking your calls in just a moment. So if you've got a question today, now is the time to call. Patty's standing by ready to take your phone call and we'll get you on the air quickly. Here's what we'd love to hear from you about. You know, if you're thinking about your financial life, you're wrestling with the decision you have right now, and you want to think about it in light of biblical wisdom, no matter the issue. It could be that you're trying to get your credit score up, pay down some debt, invest for the future, give wisely, prepare the next steward, get your estate plan in order. Any number of things, maybe it's several of them. We'd love to hear from you today and be able to help you navigate your financial life in light of biblical wisdom. Because God's word has a lot to say about this subject.
You may be surprised to know that it's the most talked about topic in God's word other than love. More than salvation, it's talked about. Why is that? Well, it's not because God wants something from us, in my mind. It's because God wants something for us. It all belongs to him. He knows it can rival our hearts. This has been true for thousands of years. You go back to, you know, the Babylonian times. I mean, they would carry their gold statues in parades through the streets, and God reminded them, "I am your God. Nothing else." And so we've been replacing God with false idols for a long, long time. This is nothing new. And yet, in the most prosperous nation in the history of the world today, we're doing that again. You know, we can look to money to provide security and significance. Well, the problem is, a created thing cannot do that. That's the role of the creator. And so when money goes in its proper place, it's not on the throne of our lives. God is on the throne of our lives. Jesus is our ultimate treasure. Money then is a tool. It's a good gift. It doesn't have to be a source of frustration in marriage. It doesn't have to be something you're constantly fighting against. It can be that tool that allows you to enjoy God's provision, create memories with your family, be involved in giving that advances the gospel and engages the culture.
That's why we talk a lot about your partnership with us here at American Family Radio and AFA, and your giving to AFA helps in part to advance the gospel, and to build up the church, and to equip God's people. Well, that's a productive use of this good gift called money, again, so long as it doesn't become the object of our affection. We see very clearly, we talked about it in the opening segment today, how the rich fool is such a clear example of where we have misplaced priorities. His problem, well, his entire view of success began and ended with him. There was no recognition of the source of his abundance. He uses the word "my" or "I" like nine times in just a couple of verses. My grain, my goods, my barns, my harvest. There's no acknowledgment of God as the giver of everything, and there's no acknowledgment of the fact that he doesn't need to let God's provision stop with him. It can be a flowing through him. He can be the conduit into God's activity. Well, as a result, we know in that story at least, God said, "You're a fool," and his life was demanded of him. That does not need to be our stories. Our stories is to see what Jesus has done on our behalf, to respond to the grace extended to us, and live a generous life as an overflow to what God has entrusted to us. It begins with gratitude. It begins with understanding the significance of the grace that has been bestowed upon us, that God's promises are true and God is sufficient. All sufficient in our lives to fill all of our needs. That longing that we have, that God-sized space that we have in our lives, we shouldn't try to fill that with anything man-made. So we want to help you navigate that in light of biblical wisdom.
But we also want to help you deal with those very specific issues and questions you have in your financial life. So, lines are open. Call right now: 800-525-7000. That's 800-525-7000. Speaking of money being out of its proper place, let's talk about sports betting.
In the news today, Wall Street may soon offer sports fans a new way to bet on their favorite teams, and it's being marketed as investing. Several financial firms have filed proposals with the Securities and Exchange Commission to launch exchange-traded funds—we talk about these often, ETFs—but tied to the performance of individual Major League Baseball and NHL teams. That's right. Unlike traditional investments, these funds wouldn't give investors ownership in a team. Instead, their value would fluctuate based on team statistics, such as runs scored, strikeouts, and other performance measures. I know. Sounds like a disaster. Financial experts warn that these products blur the line between investing and gambling, and that's particularly concerning given the growing influence of sports betting. Sports betting isn't harmless entertainment for everyone. For some, it becomes a destructive cycle of chasing losses and accumulating debt and hiding financial struggles from loved ones. What begins as a small wager can eventually threaten marriages and families and certainly financial stability. For Christ followers, this raises an important question: Are we faithfully stewarding God's resources or risking them in pursuit of quick financial gains? We take you to Proverbs 13:11 from the NLT: Wealth from get-rich-quick schemes quickly disappear. Wealth from hard work grows over time. I don't think you can say it any plainer than that. Sports can be a wonderful source of enjoyment, it can be a great community building activity, certainly a lot of fun, but we should be cautious when entertainment becomes an invitation to gambling. God calls us to steward his provision with wisdom and self-control, not place it at unnecessary risk for the thrill of a wager. We need to be on our guard there. You know, sports betting is becoming so prevalent in our society, and it's happening younger and younger, and unfortunately it's being normalized, you know, especially as some of the big brands like ESPN and others get involved, and we're seeing these sports betting platforms show up as sponsors of these programs. And so you've got young athletes just seeing the promotion of this sports betting, just thinking this is normal, and unfortunately it's causing a lot of destruction, and I think we're just at the tip of the iceberg. And you only have to look at some of the dramatic increases in revenue from companies like DraftKings and others to see this is not going away. In fact, it's growing dramatically. So we need to be on our guard there.
I think this is a great example of where we need to step in and use wisdom from God's word to be on our guard to educate those in our lives, especially the next generation, around the dangers and draw this distinction between gambling and investing. Because remember, and we get this question a lot on this program, are we gambling when we invest? And the answer is no, because here's the difference: it's not a zero-sum game. Investing is ownership in real companies with real sales and earnings. And by the way, business, productive activity is a part of of God's design. I mean, think about it. Every dollar that finds its way into a local church or a ministry ultimately starts in business that's then paid out to individuals who then give to support. And business should be, when it provides goods and services, good for people and serve people. It creates human flourishing. It takes God's creation and it puts it to work in a way that's productive and helpful for all of us. So when we invest in that and we have an ownership position in a company, that's not a gambling position as long as you're not trying to make a quick move in or out to make a buck and you have a long-term perspective. Definitely God-honoring, absolutely reinforced by the parable of the talents, among other places. It's a part of God's design. All right, your questions after this break. Call right now. We'll be right back.
SEGMENT 3
Rob West: Helping you see God as your ultimate treasure, money a tool, this is Faith and Finance on American Family Radio. I'm Rob West. We're taking your questions today, anything financial. Call right now 800-525-7000. That's 800-525-7000. Let's head out to Texas. Joel, how can we help?
Joel: Yes. Good morning.
Rob West: Hi there.
Joel: Uh, yes, uh, I have a traditional IRA that I'm uh, thinking of converting it to a Roth IRA. Is there any consequence in uh, doing so?
Rob West: Yeah. Yeah, you know, it's uh, generally, I I like the idea. It's all about the timing. Um, but this can be a good strategy. The key question is always whether paying taxes today will save taxes later. So let's talk about the difference between the two. Uh, contributions into a a traditional IRA are generally tax deductible. Uh, the withdrawals then are generally taxable. So you get the deduction when it goes in, it grows tax-deferred, then when you take it out, you pay tax on it as income. Uh, you have required minimum distributions starting at age 73, so you likely have those now, and then again, taxes are deferred. The Roth IRA is made with after-tax dollars, or in the case of a conversion, you pay the tax at the time of the conversion, and then the money grows tax-free and the withdrawals are tax-free, and there are no required minimums during the original owner's lifetime. Um, so with the Roth conversion, uh, you pay the ordinary income tax on the taxable amount converted that year. Now, is it a good idea at age 75 in your situation? Well, the potential downside would be that you're creating an immediate tax bill, it could push you into a higher tax bracket, it could increase your part B and D Medicare premiums (that wouldn't happen for two years, but it could come down the road), and it could cause a larger portion of your Social Security benefits to become taxable because depending on how much income you have, and remember this conversion would be income, you know, that determines whether zero or 50% or as much as 85% of your Social Security benefits are included in your taxable income for the year, and that, you know, conversion could, you know, cause more of it to become taxable. And then one important distinction would be because you're already subject to required minimums, you have to take your required minimum before converting any additional IRA funds to the year, uh, to the Roth, so the required minimum can't be converted either. So that's just additional income that we've got a factor in. So, I would say because of all of those things, Joel, I generally discourage converting, uh, you know, certainly not an an entire IRA all at once without calculating the tax consequences. Uh, you'd certainly want to look at doing smaller partial Roth conversions, but, you know, you also are going to want to probably work with your CPA to consider the factors I mentioned just to see is this going to push us into a higher bracket, is this going to increase my Medicare a couple of years down the road, and will this cause more Social Security benefits to become taxable? Also, what is your goal? Do you believe, you know, you're in a, you know, you're by paying the tax today, you're paying less tax than you would later um or, you know, do you want your heirs not to have to pay any taxes on it, which they wouldn't with a Roth and they certainly would with a traditional IRA? So, I know there's a lot of factors there. Give me your thoughts on all that.
Joel: Well, uh, one was, uh, when I um, when the Lord calls me home or whatnot, you know, I mean, uh, due to my, um, my children, you know, having to pay no taxes on that, on that IRA, you know, but, uh, considering everything that you just mentioned, I think it's best for me to just go ahead and live it as a traditional, uh, IRA, even though it seems, uh, better to have a Roth IRA, but I think it would push me to a higher bracket.
Rob West: Yeah, and that's where I think it would, at the very least, it would be helpful for you if, if you use a CPA and if not, maybe you, uh, you would work with one this year, just to do some of that analysis because he or she could help you calculate, you know, what that might look like. There is a strategy where people will quote "fill up the bracket." So, let's say you have a certain amount of income and that puts you in the, I'll just pick one, 22% bracket, and, you know, you could convert another $30,000 and stay in that bracket, you know, that might be the amount that you'd want to go ahead and convert. But you do need to look, or the CPA could look at the other side of that, which is what would that do to Medicare two years later and what would that do to our Social Security taxation? But you are correct in that, you know, one of the primary reasons that, uh, people do these Roth conversions is the opportunity to leave money to children with a tax-free inheritance. And, you know, it's a wonderful way to leave more of what you've worked for to, you know, them because they're not having to pay tax on it taxes on it when they get it. And keep in mind, you know, they're often, if they're in the prime of their working years versus you in your retirement years, they're often going to be in a higher bracket than you are now. And what a gift for you to go ahead and kind of prepay that tax and, and then be able to receive that, you know, without any tax whatsoever. But as exciting as that is, I just want you to work alongside your CPA to be thoughtful about how much to convert, if any, in any given year, just so you're not surprised by the taxation, you know, that will result.
Joel: So, uh, I think it's just, uh, best for me to just go ahead and, uh, keep this, keep it as it is even though I have to pay, uh, I have to purge a certain amount due to my age from that IRA every year.
Rob West: Yeah, that's right. You have that required minimum that started a couple of years ago. Let me also mention one other thing, um, and that is a qualified charitable distribution. Are you familiar with that term?
Joel: Well, I've heard it a lot, you know, through, uh, your program, but, uh, I'm not really familiar with.
Rob West: Okay. Let's do this. You're welcome to just, uh, hang up and listen, but when we come back from the break, I do want to mention that because the QCD is one of the most compelling giving opportunities for someone who's over 75 and has a traditional IRA, and I'll explain the details right after this break. Stay with us. We'll be right back.
SEGMENT 4
Rob West: So glad to have you with us today on Faith and Finance here on American Family Radio. I'm Rob West. We've got some lines open today. Our team is standing by. We'd love to tackle your financial question, whatever you're thinking about as you give, save, and spend God's money. We want to help you make those decisions in light of biblical wisdom. So call right now, 800-525-7000. We can get you on the air quickly, 800-525-7000. We would love to hear from you today.
Before the break, um, we had the opportunity to talk about a Roth conversion for a gentleman who's 75, and right at the tail end of that, we talked briefly about a qualified charitable distribution. This is one of the most powerful giving tools. I don't want you to miss this. This is particularly for someone who is age 70 and a half—I know it's kind of particular, 70 and a half or older—and it allows you to give money directly from your IRA to a qualified charity. So think your church or American Family Association or FaithFi, any 501(c)(3) not-for-profit organization. You can give from your IRA to the qualified charity without paying income taxes on that distribution.
Now, one of the things people often get confused about here is you're not getting a deduction, so it's not an added deduction, which is actually helpful because it doesn't have anything to do with whether or not you take the standard deduction or not. The tax benefit is that it never becomes taxable. So remember, when you put the money in the traditional IRA—whether you put it into a 401(k) and then rolled it over, or you went straight into the traditional IRA—the contribution was excluded from your taxable income. So you didn't pay tax on the money going in, and then you invested it, and there's not been any taxes while it's been growing. And so it was in stocks or ETFs or mutual funds, and maybe it's been in there 20 years or so, and maybe longer, and all of the gains have been deferred, and then typically as you pull the money out of that traditional IRA, it's added to your taxable income as income in the year of the withdrawal.
In this case, when it goes straight from your IRA to a qualified charity, a 501(c)(3), it never—you never pay the tax on it. So we didn't pay the tax on it going in, we don't have any taxes while it's growing, and now it's coming out tax-free. Well, that's amazing. Why do they do that? Well, that's the qualified charitable distribution. It goes straight from the IRA to the charity, and this is an important distinction: it has to go direct from the IRA custodian. You might say, "Well, what is a custodian?" Well, that's the company that you get the statements from, that houses the account, that is the one who places the trades if you were to buy and sell an investment. That's your custodian. It goes straight from the custodian, doesn't come to you, and goes straight to an eligible charity. And again, you can't claim the deduction, but it's never taxable. That's the real benefit.
So what does that mean? Well, it means it helps you give more generously because you're able to support a ministry or your church or a charity while not adding anything to your taxable income. And here's the other really important distinction that works in your favor: it counts toward your required minimum distribution, which doesn't start at 70 and a half, but it does start at 73. And so if you're required to take a required minimum from your IRA, the QCD can satisfy some or all of that requirement.
Well, why is that important? Well, a lot of the people that I talk to here on this program have to take the required minimum each year because they're 73 or older, and they don't need the money. They're living on Social Security, they've got a pension, they've got other assets. They're saying, "Listen, I haven't been using this, I don't need to use it, but the government's making me take it out". Well, here's one of the strategies that can make a lot of sense is you're already doing your giving, perhaps out of your checking or your savings account. You know, you're tithing to your church, or you're giving to AFA, or you're a partner here at FaithFi, and you're making those contributions out of after-tax dollars.
If you did nothing else but just replace your current giving that you're already doing with after-tax dollars with your IRA, that allows you to satisfy that required minimum, doesn't add anything to your taxable income for the year, and you just do the same giving. Now, for some people, it allows them to do far more giving than they have been doing or were planning to do, because you can do more than $100,000 from your, uh, through your qualified charitable distribution.
And so, let's say you're someone—and I realize this isn't everyone listening today, but let's say you're someone who has way more than you need. You're sitting with an IRA that has, by God's grace, millions of dollars in it, and you don't plan to use that. Now, you have every intention to give it generously at death. Maybe you're going to leave it to some heirs, and part of that is in your estate to go to your church or your favorite ministry, and you're excited about that, and that's a good thing. But if you have way more than you need right now, what if you started to do what Ron Blue says in his book Splitting Heirs—doing your giving while you're living so you know where it's going, right?
And now, all of a sudden, you're doing some hilarious giving that we see in God's word, the cheerful giving of $100,000 perhaps that allows you to do more than you could have ever thought possible. What an incredible opportunity to get more into God's kingdom today rather than just letting it sit there in your IRA and grow. Nothing wrong with that, but couldn't we get part of that into God's kingdom to be growing and compounding for all of eternity? I kind of like that idea.
So that's the qualified charitable distribution. It's as simple as a phone call to your IRA custodian to say, "I'm over 70 and a half. Will you send a check straight to my church?" And when that gets there, they acknowledge it, let you know that they got it, give you a contribution receipt. And then when you file your tax return, your custodian will acknowledge it as a distribution, but then there's a line that allows you to say, "This was a qualified charitable distribution so that that amount doesn't become taxable even though they do the 1099-R that shows that the money came out, but there's a way to to show it as being qualified charitable, therefore you don't pay any taxes on it".
So, I know that was a long explanation, but I just want you to fully grasp the opportunity here to avoid income taxes, to count toward your RMD, to help you give generously—perhaps far more generously than you thought possible—because now you're giving out of your IRA, not creating any kind of major tax liability, not increasing your Medicare premiums, not causing more of your Social Security to be taxable because it's not a taxable distribution, doesn't require you to itemize to get the benefit. And we're getting more into God's kingdom, which is a triple win there, maybe a quadruple.
So, let me just finish with an example, okay? So, if you're required to withdraw $10,000 from your IRA this year—that's your RMD—and then you send that same 10,000 straight to your church from your IRA, you're going to satisfy your RMD, you won't owe any income tax on that distribution, and now your church gets 100% of that money to put to work into God's kingdom. Sounds like a pretty exciting win to me. You know, I think that's the opportunity that we want to look at, and and keep this in mind too, um, you know, that so often we give out of cash.
In fact, do you know that 90% of giving happens in the form of cash? What does that mean—physical dollars? No, it's just coming out of your checking or your savings, cash and cash equivalents, right? We write a check, we do an auto-debit, we literally put money in the plate. That's how 90% of our giving happens. You know how much money we have of of our total net worth, how much do we have in the form of cash? Only about 10%. Where's the rest of our wealth? It's on our balance sheet. It's in our home, and it's in our stock portfolios, and it's in our IRA. Your greatest opportunity for giving is on your balance sheet. It's from your net worth. So giving from your IRA allows you to do far more giving than you perhaps ever thought possible.
All right, a break and then Jerry Boyer, stick around.
SEGMENT 5
Rob West: Great to have you with us today on Faith and Finance here on American Family Radio. We're here in our final segment. Jerry Bowyer's here, where we talk the markets, we talk the economy, we also talk corporate engagement. All right, Jerry, uh, have you put your reservation in for the new Tesla Roadster, the flying car?
Jerry Bowyer: Yes, I have for 2050. It'll take me that long to afford it. But yeah, I got my bid in. That's pretty cool. I got to tell you, I love this stuff. So, Peter Thiel is one of Elon Musk's closest friends, and he once said, "We were promised flying cars, and all we got was 240 characters." He was complaining that all the technological advances were things like social media, Twitter, and not real-world stuff. And one of the things that I just love about what's currently going on in the American economy is—look, I'm all in favor of computer technology, but we really focused on bits, information, electrons. We didn't focus on atoms. We didn't focus on heavy stuff. And now we are. We're sending rockets into space, we're doing flying cars, we're doing an industrial renaissance. You don't have a full economy made up of nothing but information. We can't all make a living sending each other emails all day, right? It's actually got to be something happening in the real world, and we're back to that, and I think Musk is just a huge part of that.
Rob West: We've got to build things. I like that we're building things. Now, as you pointed out though on a call we were on yesterday with the Kingdom Advisors, you know, we're not seeing the resurgence necessarily in the manufacturing that we had hoped at least at this point in the Trump economy, right?
Jerry Bowyer: No, we aren't. Manufacturing jobs have kind of lagged behind, and to the degree that we have manufacturing job growth, it's been more with data centers. I'm all for that. I know that's controversial. I think that's great for the economy, but that's still for the most part information. That's something that helps us do search engines better or help write memos better or ask questions or, you know, make little songs or whatever. That's still us online staring at screens for the most part. It's not yet robots running factories, and I think the reason that that's happening is because the whole AI world is something that President Trump has exempted from his trade war. So the trade war is basically dealing with a lot of things. Dealing with food, dealing with, you know, heavy industry, but he's basically given a pass to the world of AI and chips. Well, then that's where the capital's going because that's where we don't have, you know, essentially kind of high taxes, which make it harder to do. But if he's tariffing—we talked yesterday about copper or whatever—well, that makes it harder to do a real manufacturing renaissance. So what I'm seeing is a lot of announcements. See a lot of that. Here in Pittsburgh, announcement that Tokyo is investing this much, etc., etc. But that's not reality yet, and I don't think it's going to be reality until we have clear trade policy, but there's another deeper problem to solve. Until we have a work ethic revival, a Christian work ethic revival that gets people out of the basements and back from behind the screens and arguing with each other on social media and playing video games, and actually out there working in those factories. And that's something that we're kind of working on here. We got a little project, I can say more about it later, where we've got to get people actually out into the physical workforce. And until we have those things, we're not going to get that industrial golden age that we've talked about. But we could get it. Those are solvable problems, but they're still there.
Rob West: Yeah. Jerry, as you just assess the state of the economy—I know you talked some about this yesterday—looking at some of your favorite indicators, copper among others, what is your take on where we're at right now?
Jerry Bowyer: Well, the global economy is probably better than the U.S. economy, and that's largely driven by emerging markets. I know people are talking about an American renaissance, and there's a lot great going on, but here's the wonderful thing: when things go well for us, things tend to also go well for our providers. You know, emerging markets sell us the copper, right, and the rare earth minerals and the other commodities, etc. So that's why emerging markets has been a strong performer compared to developed markets, including the United States of America. Europe is kind of flat on its back, and it might be forever. This might be it, or God might send them renewal and reformation and everything, and they might become a great civilization again. So I also like surveys of people who actually run things, purchasing managers. You know, my picture—it's a little obsolete—is the guy whose office is next to the loading dock who's got a bunch of Post-it notes up on his wall. Now, he doesn't have Post-it notes anymore, you know, it's in project manager or whatever, but somebody who's like really close to that process of getting things built, sourcing the materials, making sure that we're keeping up with inventory. And those people are pretty optimistic about the U.S. economy. Those indices go from 0 to 100, and they've been floating now around like 55 or 56, which is expansionary territory, but not booming territory. So I think our third quarter is going to be pretty strong. I think basically, though, we're growing at slightly less than long-term American average. And you say, "Yeah, but the President did all these tax cuts." Yes, he did tax cuts, and I salute them. He also did tax hikes, because tariffs are tax hikes. So we've got some things pulling for us, we've got some things pulling against us. In general, I think we have things pulling for us. In general, I think the policy mix is positive, which is why we can have a war in the Middle East and oil well over $100 a barrel, and still not have a recession, because the underlying strength of the U.S. economy is still that strong.
Rob West: Mm, yeah. That's helpful, Jerry. Well said. All right, let's turn the corner here and talk about your work in corporate engagement. I know you work closely with the team, Walker and the team at AFA, and you and the Bowyer Research team are engaging with a lot of companies. Tell us what you've been working on.
Jerry Bowyer: Well, so far AFA has filed shareholder proposals at Apple, at Bank of New York Mellon, at Costco, and at Goldman Sachs. And one of the topics—there's some pattern here—some of it is about discrimination against faith-based organizations in employee gift match. That's not a good thing to do, and if employee gift match is supposed to honor your employees, saying to some employees, "Hey, if you want to give to American Atheists Association..." I actually asked that to a company this week. I think it was Cisco. I said, "So you won't match to churches." "Well, unless it's like a secular purpose, like a soup kitchen, but if it involves proselytization," I think they said on their website, "then no." And I said, "Well, why not?" And then they just repeated that they don't do it. Yeah, but why not? Why is church or a synagogue an inferior form of charity and not worthy of charitable match? And they don't have an answer to that, because what answer could there be? Most charity in the—you just talked about most charity is cash, right? Where does most charity in America go? Most of it's not going to colleges and universities, and it's not going to advocacy groups or whatever, or NGOs. Where's most of it going? You know. Where's most of yours going? Where's most of mine going? Where's most of everybody listening to us right now, where is most of their money going? Churches. That's where that is the solid core of American philanthropy at the grassroots level. Now, huge foundations don't give to churches, that skews it, but ordinary people, like the people who work for these companies, they're typically giving to churches. So to say to them, "Yes, we will honor your charitable spirit, just so long as it ain't a church," that sends a message. And maybe they don't know they're sending that message. Frequently, I hear them say, "I don't know, why do we do that?" And they look at each other, "Well, it's been that way as far as I can remember." Well, I know why you do it. There's a group called Benevity that administers most of these charitable grant programs for companies, and they're very Southern Poverty Law Center-aligned. They don't seem to like us, and so they put in these settings into this program where if the company says, "Look, this is too complicated for us, we want you to handle the charitable match program," they say, "Thank you," and they put in hate group filters, for example, and they put in filters against giving to churches and synagogues and mosques. And overwhelmingly when we talk to companies, they don't know that Benevity did that. So you've got somebody who's got a problem with us who's in there writing the software that has caused a lot of anti-Christian bias, and indeed Jewish bias as well, and anti-Muslim bias. So let's just call it anti-religious bias. So our argument with these folks is, if you're honoring your employees, you're going to honor their choice. And if it's a bona fide 501(c)(3), if the IRS says this is a 501(c)(3) charity, that ought to be good enough for you, unless it's on a terrorist watch list or something like that, then you ought to be honoring that. And I asked actual one of them, say to your board, "Can we give to the American Atheists Association, but we can't give to First Baptist?" Because these restrictions don't seem to apply to atheistic groups or anti-religious groups like Freedom From Religion Foundation. Well, how can you possibly think that that's fair? But no one's ever asked them that question before. I could see by the shocked look on their face, and by AFA saying, "We're going to pledge our shares, and we're going to go to a meeting, or we're going to send Bowyer to a meeting to ask these questions," it is creating an intellectual shock in corporate boardrooms where they're being asked questions that they are not prepared to answer, and in about half the cases, they're thinking about it and they're coming back with the right answer.
Rob West: Wow, Jerry, that's incredible and really meaningful, not only for the employees, but just the implications of what that means terms of the dollars going out. What about some of the other projects? We have just a minute and a half left. Anything else you want to highlight?
Jerry Bowyer: Yes, I think we are going to be spending a lot of time talking to healthcare providers about guidelines which seem to favor having companies paying for sexual transition treatments for minors. We think that this is a very risky thing, and the companies have not fully taken into account the risk. And we talk to companies, they say, "Well, we just do whatever Aetna says," or "We just do whatever Humana says," or "We just do whatever UnitedHealth Care says." And we've said to the companies, "Well, you can get sued separately. Doesn't matter what they say." But then we decided, well, let's talk to those underlying companies and ask them, why are they covering this? Are they recommending it, and are they taking into account the risk? Just another thing—well, there's so many that we're thinking about. I'm just looking at the Netflix situation with the Narnia movie right now. I'm a huge C.S. Lewis fan. Our youngest son is named after him, and I'm just wondering what engagement opportunities there are in situations where media and entertainment companies are essentially setting their brand and shareholder capital on fire to produce subversive content that undermines Christian content, like they did with Disney did with A Wrinkle in Time, and is there a need to be some accountability for that, because these things tend to tank at the box office.
Rob West: Yeah. Well, a perfect opportunity to start a conversation, hopefully that leads to a productive outcome. Jerry, I'm glad you're on the job, my friend, doing incredible work. Thanks for sharing.
Jerry Bowyer: Well, thanks for helping me get on that job. You were a big part of it.
Rob West: Well, thank you. Lord bless you, my friend. Have a great weekend.
Jerry Bowyer: Bless you. Bye.
Rob West: That's Jerry Bowyer. He's our resident economist, joins us each Friday in this segment with an update on the market, the economy, and the latest work in corporate engagement. Big thanks to my team today: Devin, Michael, Patty, Aften, and everybody
Wealth is a gift to steward, but it was never meant to become our identity. On this Faith & Finance on AFR, Rob West explains why God, through Scripture, points us toward something far more enduring. Our security, significance, and identity are found in God. Then, it’s on to calls.
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