Jenna Ellis: Rights that our founders recognize come from God our Creator
Jenna Ellis in the morning on American Family Radio. I love talking about the things of God because of truth and the biblical worldview, the U.S. constitution obligates our government to preserve and protect. The rights that our founders recognize come from God our Creator, not our government. I believe that scripture in the Bible is very clear that God is the one that raised up each of you, and God has allowed us to be brought here to this specific moment in time. This is Jenna Ellis in the morning.
Memorial Day is more of a solemn day of remembrance for the fallen
Jenna Ellis: Good morning. It is Friday, May 22, and we are heading into a long weekend because of Memorial Day. And I always thought it was a little weird to say happy Memorial Day. It's more of a solemn day of remembrance for the fallen, as opposed to Veterans Day, which, is happier. And it celebrates and recognizes and honors, our living veterans who've served in the US Military, and for our country. And Memorial Day honors, those who we have lost, whether it is in, in the context of war, or their military service or because of the effects of that or simply, they are no longer with us because, that is the ultimate, end that the Lord has in his sovereignty, ordained that it is once for man to die. And, that is why we look forward to eternity and have to answer those questions of who are we? What is our purpose here while we are l? And then, what happens when we die? So a lot of big M questions this morning. And this is why the truth of the gospel of Christ is the only reliable, internally consistent explanation for the truth of the reality to which we are presented that answers those questions about who we are, our identity, our identity that is only in Christ, explains the problem of evil in the world. And, why we even perceive evil as evil, good as good. And we understand because the law of God is written on our hearts, that measurable difference between right and wrong, good and evil, and that there is a solution to evil, which is redemption in Christ. And all of us, all human beings must come to a point where we either acknowledge the truth of reality or we suppress that truth in unrighteousness and choose to not take part in that redemptive plan that Christ offers so that we can have our eternity secured. And all of those bigger questions, then when we answer that from a truthful perspective, we look at reality truthfully, consistently, and we recognize the redemptive gospel story that necessarily influences then what we think about other topics, what we think about the three institutions that God has ordained. Civil government, church government and family. Government and family government is where I actually want to focus today, though we acknowledge and absolutely thank all of our veterans who have come before, on Memorial Day, and, I hope that you will, tune in on Monday. We'll have a, special re air of an episode on religious freedom and, the rights that have been secured by, our veterans and those who have given, their lives as the last full measure of their devotion and sacrifice to. To this great nation to continue to protect our rights, like, free exercise of religion.
Christian song Testify to Love being misappropriated as LGBTQ anthem
And so I want to focus though, on the family today, because that particular definition I think that we don't talk about enough in the context of the civil government and the church government and what it actually means to be a family. And this question has, kind of come up in the context of, you know, a wide variety of headlines, but most recently that week, if you are, an 80s kid like me and kind of came of age in the 90s, which was, one of the best times, I think. And I remember it fondly with nostalgia. You may remember, the Christian music artist, group Avalon, and one of their main songs, which, was titled Testify to Love, and of course was a Christian song, just like one of their other favorites that I sing still have on, my Spotify playlist is called AD&I and is recognizing and acknowledging God the Father. And yet now fast Forward from the 90s to 2026, and the headline here from Church Leaders.com is LGBTQ+Community embraces the re release of, Avalon's Testify to Love from founding member who says he was ousted for being gay. So basically what's going on is that almost 30 years after it topped the contemporary Christian music or CCM music charts, Testify to Love is being misappropriated and re appropriated as actually an artifact of Christian culture, and it is being repurposed as an LGBTQ anthem. But not just that. I mean, there are a lot of things that, the. Those who suppress the truth and unrighteousness, whether we call them the left, the LGBT community, you know, all of those who are. Who are godless, sinners, basically, and they're still, unrepentant in their sin. They appropriate a lot of things from Christian culture, from truthful culture. They've appropriated the rainbow to be a symbol of, their sin. They've appropriated what it means to be a family, what it means to have a marriage. they are trying to reinvent these terms to serve their purposes. And this particular headline from Avalon goes even a step further because not only are they reappropriating this song and hailing it as a gay anthem, which it's not, but they are actually suggesting that at the time in the 90s, 1997 to be exact, that even at that time it was a gay anthem. It was just sold under the auspices of being Christian. I mean, this would be like going back to a Genesis 6 and suggesting that when God placed the rainbow in the sky, he intended originally for it to be a symbol of gay pride. I mean, we all know that is patently false and it's wrong. And so we need to call this out and we need to have truthful definitions and not allow Christian culture, truthful culture, meaning, definitions, and all of this to not just be reinvented in 2026 and misappropriated, but also that the truth about our history, whether it's all the way back in Genesis or just back in the 90s, we are truthful about what things mean, what they meant at the time, and what they still mean for today.
Jenna Deuter: John Root is a faith, sports and culture commentator
So let's welcome in my, good friend Jon Root, who is a faith, sports and culture commentator. You should follow him on all platforms, not just X. he's very prolific on Instagram and Facebook as well, with some really excellent response videos. I always watch those from a cultural perspective. And so, Jon, I'm really glad that you joined this morning, because I think that this is such a key point for Christians to understand that it's not just a ripoff. Now in 2026, Avalon is suggesting that even though they kicked out and said, you know, you're. You're basically not acting as a Christian, one of their fellow band members because he was gay. which is correct in terms of, you know, you shouldn't be part of a Christian music band if you are not living a Christian life. Not just homosexuality, but everything. and yet they're claiming that back in 1997 this was a gay anthem. I mean, it's just. It's false.
Jon Root: Yeah, it seems like there's a lot of revisionist history that's happening within contemporary Christian music. And I mean, I was a 90s kid, I was born in 91, and, you know, I grew up with Steven Curtis Chapman, jars of Clay, D.C. talk. And it felt like that was a heyday, growing up. And then now you see, I mean, probably a lot of people listening. I know you and I, Jenna, we follow the amount of CCM artists that have deconstructed are gay affirming, don't believe in Hell, and have completely left the face. and what comes to mind is they went out from us because they were never of us. But it does feel, And people should feel a little icky lack, of a better term that these people that we listened to when we were younger or, you allowed your kids to listen to these people. And then now you see that, you know, their. Their goal was to subvert scripture. They were not actually Christians themselves. It comes. The meme comes to mind of, you got a lady talking to a man and, saying, like, well, I got church hurt. And then the guy's saying, be honest. Like, no, no, no, I'm telling you, the church hurt me. The guy's saying, be honest. And then the person in the meme finally says, I just wanted to be gay. And the church, was against that. It just feels like the same thing over and over. They're going to call it church hurt. They're going to call it, abuse. They're going to call it whatever it is, because legitimate Christians were telling them that they're living in sin and that they weren't going to promote sin through their church, through their ministry, through their musical ministry, whatever it may be. but it feels like, a lot of these individuals, their faith was actually rocky ground and their house was built on sand. And it should be pretty disappointing for many of us that listened to this music growing up.
Jenna Ellis: Yeah, absolutely. And you know, and to clarify, this isn't the full group Avalon, that is re releasing this. This is, Micah Passens, who was a founding member of Avalon, and he released this with Ty Herndon, who's a country singer who is also openly homosexual. And it also, features former Avalon member Melissa Greene, who wrote a substack, basically suggesting that this is a queer anthem. Or not suggesting she's openly saying this and saying that this is what this song has always meant. And you're absolutely right that, you know, these people who are going completely against the faith and the religion that they once claimed to represent, we can question what. Whether they were ever Christians to begin with. Because even last, And this article from church leaders describes last December, Passens described being forced out of Avalon in 20 or in 2003 because he, quote, fit. Didn't fit into the group's conservative narrative. And after giving his whole life to Christian church and faith, he told the interviewer, quote, they threw me out at the first hint. I violated a scripture in Deuteronomy. Now let's break that down, because it's not Just fitting into a group's narrative, like, you know, you didn't wear the T shirt or the band logo and, and some kind of narrative that you can accept or reject and also, like, focus on how they're marginalizing. How he's marginalizing a clear violation of Scripture, which is living in sin. But he's trying to minimize it as if, like, I violated a random, you know, very obscure passage in Deuteronomy, and that doesn't equal the rest of my life. being lived as a Christian. You can't live in sin and live as a homosexual and still claim that you're walking the Christian life. But he's trying on purpose to suggest that you can.
Jon Root: And the interesting part too is when he talks about I didn't fit into their basically conservative box, their conservative bubble. He's already making this political. He wants people to think that truly holding to what Scripture says is more Republican than it is Christian. And maybe he doesn't specifically mean Republican. But how often do we hear that, Jenna, where it's like, oh, you know, this church is just ultra conservative, or those Christian parents are conservative. It's like, no, this is about, we live by the authority of Scripture. By what standard do we make the decisions, that we make as Christians? It's Scripture. So he wants to frame it as some sort of political ideology that they're stuck in. and clearly he obviously wouldn't think that he is beholden to the authority of scripture. And once he already turns this into a political conversation, he now is probably trying to spin this to be, oh, this is just a conservative perspective of, Deuteronomy. And then that's what a lot of these people that just want to live in unrepentant sin and then try to shame the people that probably genuinely, when we talk about love. The best way to love people is to give them the truth. And that's what is mind blowing within these gay affirming churches. How the United Methodist Church is completely, gone off the rails when it comes to LGBTQ stuff. And the, a lot of ways people that are self professed Christians, these institutions, these missions groups, these, musical groups, they're looking like the world. They believe that they can have one foot in the world and they can use the world's language like love is love or like a redefinition of love when the Bible is clear on what love is. And, love abides in the truth. And I think in general, it just goes back to my point that he's, I believe he's turning this into more of a political issue, than an actual Biblical issue. But if you make it a political issue, then that becomes, a basically free for all of how you interpret the Bible. He can say, well, your conservative perspective tells me that Deuteronomy says this. My more liberal perspective tells me Deuteronomy says that. And then you're getting tossed to and fro by political ideology and things of the world than the actual foundational truth of Scripture.
Jenna Ellis: Yeah, and that is so spot on, Jon Root, because Passens actually says that, because according to Glad, the gay, the gay Allegiance group that actually covered this story with great enthusiasm, of course, because they love seeing Christian Christians, fall for sin. Right. they say that the new rendition, which features an all star chorus of emerging LGBTQ artists and advocates, tries to honor the song's core message of fostering a spirit of inclusion. That's not the song's core message, but that's what they're trying to make it be. And Passon says, quote, for years I sang these lyrics while hiding who I truly was. To record this now, standing fully in my truth is a full circle moment I once thought impossible. It serves as a testimony that love does not exclude. So first of all, I mean, he's. He's openly admitting this is standpoint epistemology, which is basically just the truth from my perspective, which is not truth at all. But he's standing in my truth instead of the truth, which is wrong. And Christians cannot advocate for that because there's no truth separate and apart from the person of Jesus Christ, who is the living embodiment of truth, and that he has created all things, including the truth of reality, for his own sovereign purposes. We don't have the ability to change that. But he's disclaiming the truth in favor of his truth, which is wrong. So he's standing in sin. But also the fact that he says this serves as a testimony that love does not exclude. Allie Beth Stuckey did a really good job of breaking this down on her show, and that was actually where I first saw, this particular headline. And she made the point that I want to emphasize here, Jon, that she says, of course love is. Is exclusive, and we do exclude certain forms of love. I mean, that is a ridiculous, absurd premise because we definitely exclude love between family members. It's called incest.
John Root: If you are not rooted in scripture, you are deceived
Right. We ex. We exclude, love between an adult and a child that's sexually inappropriate. That's, you know, that's called pedophilia. we exclude Love that, forces one person on another, it's called rape. I mean, there are, there are ways that we absolutely exclude forms of love, but this is the lie overall, the LGBTQ movement, that love is love and no one can condemn any form of adult desire.
Jon Root: And that's what Christians need to realize, is if you are not rooted in scripture, you are going to be deceived by these things. You are going to believe that my truth can trump the truth, or maybe that in certain situations there isn't actually a foundational truth. It's wherever fate leads you. Follow your heart. You know, it seems like, so many deconstructionists claim, that they're finding freedom when they are in bondage to sin. They are saying, I have given up and I am in bondage to my sin and I care more about honoring myself, my own desires than the person who made me. And I think that should people, should Christians that are listening to this, watch out for those buzzwords. The my truth that people, we are all self centered there. It goes back to Genesis, the very first book of the Bible. Did God really say Satan is telling Eve that? Obviously you talk about like, the family structure and the hierarchy. Adam was not a provider and protector in that moment, was not protecting his wife, was not listening to what God, said. And a lot of us men, I think, need to step up in these situations and take care of the vulnerable, including, the susceptible young Christians out there. But if we start believing, oh, did God really say that about gay marriage? did he really say that about all these LGBTQ issues? And then it turns into, well, you know, if you eat of this fruit, you're going to find enlightenment, you're going to find freedom, you're not going to be in bondage to this strict religious system, that has been oppressing the west and the world for so long. It's, I mean, it's just deep rooted evil. And I think that's what we need to call this stuff. I still think we hear stories like this. We need to pray for these individuals, pray their heart is softened and they leave their sin and God provides people in their lives, that God can use for his glory, to get them out of this sin. but my truth, this idea that Christianity is some sort of political ideology than some foundational truth, and then realizing that we are all selfish, we all allow sin to, take us over to some extent, but thankful for the freedom and peace that we find and fulfillment we find in Christ. But people, like these individuals that used to be part of Avalon are saying I care about myself more than I care about my Creator.
Jenna Ellis: Yeah, so well said Jon Root. And you know, it is so sad that these lies are infiltrating the church and those who profess to be Christians. And we have to take a break here. But Jon is going to stick with me through the break because I want to talk about that in the next segment. That we accept lies from the devil and from those who have denied God and who actively suppress the truth in their unrighteousness. We expect that, but it's even more sinister and frankly perverted, which that's the definition of perversion, is taking the truth and twisting it, manipulating it so that it doesn't look anything like what it actually is and should be. it is more perverted when it comes from the Mao's and the lives of those who profess to also be Christians. And so I want to talk about that when we come right back here, on Jenna Ellis in the Morning, my special guest Jon Root. You can follow him across social media platforms. We'll be right back.
Jenna Ellis: Truth versus suppression of truth and unrighteousness
Welcome back to Jenna Ellis in the Morning on American Family Radio.
Jenna Ellis: Welcome back. And I'm here with my special guest Jon Root, who is a faith sports and culture commentator. You can find him on X, Facebook, Instagram, all of the social media platforms. And you should follow him for his insights and reaction to the culture, with truth. And that's what we're talking about today is truth versus suppression of truth and unrighteousness. Because if there is such a thing as truth, then by definition it must be exclusive because there, ah, then there are things that are not true and truth is an exception, exclusive category. not all things can be true simultaneously. It's just a part of the reality to which we are presented. And so when we have truth, then we also have falsity. We have things that are not true. And the Christian in particular needs to be very discerning about truth versus falsity and recognizing that that is outside of our control and even in our opinion as well. I mean we can debate a lot of things. We can debate the best way, for example, to, to raise children, the best methods of education. We can debate the best route to get from A to B. We can debate a lot of things. But what we can't debate is central moral truths that God has woven into the fabric of reality that are not within our capacity to control or to even disagree with. I Mean, you may not like it, but too bad. I mean, you may not like the fact that gravity exists, but if you go up to a rooftop and you jump off as much as you might not like it, you will fall. I mean that's, that is the truth of reality, being, giving you the consequences in those moments. And while the truth of morality may not have such immediate consequences as the laws of gravity, there are consequences and even eternal ones nonetheless. And so when we're talking about this in the context of the Christian life, Jon, this is even more sinister and perverted in terms of twisted and and distorting the truth when it comes from Christians who suggest that they can live a Christian life, which by definition means that you've accepted the truth of reality. You've accepted the truth that Christ is Lord, that God is Creator and we are not, and that he has designed the world for his own sovereign purposes and his story and the redemption story of the Gospel. And that truth is what we will live by because we recognize truth is. And if we are proclaiming that and yet only picking and choosing the truth that we prefer. and in our example today with the issue of homosexuality or even same sex marriage, but even homosexuality in the sense of the relationships that God said, no sex is confined to the institution of marriage, which by definition is one man, one woman. That's it. we then are as a Christian community and as the church need to call that out and not be ashamed to and not care that people say, oh well that's judgmental. Well God is the judge, he's already judged that behavior. And so we are simply saying these two positions, Christianity and homosexuality or Christianity and any other sin, are not compatible simultaneously as a worldview. They cannot coexist as truth.
Jon Root: And what does scripture say, is love does not delight in evil, but rejoices with the truth. People promoting these lifestyles and living these lifestyles is evil. That's just plain and simple. This is, this is what it is. And when we talk about, you know, essentially false teachers, whether that be specific, what they consider to be self professed Christian institutions, individuals like now gay affirming and gay, active Christian contemporary musicians, I think of Second Peter, you know, what are some of the false teachers, that are called out in those chapters of that book. they deny the absolute authority of their Creator. They exploit people, they have their own greed, whether that be their own physical lust, whether it actually be money. They use fabricated words and they prioritize themselves over others. they live immoral lifestyles. they appeal to their fleshly desires. And like I was saying, a few minutes ago is there's this promise of freedom, but it's actually leading people, People into a deeper slavery to sin. And it is egregious to see these, quote, unquote Christian institutions and these quote, unquote Christians, that consider LGBTQ to be separate from all these other sins. M. You're not going to have even, like, I cover sports all the time, Jenna. You're not going to have a crime night, you're not going to have an adultery night, but they will have an LGBTQ pride night. You know, they are trying to dumb down this sin and this evil, and they're trying to indoctrinate the next generation, to accept this. Either be gay affirming and believe the best way to love people is to accept them in their, in their gay sin, their bisexuality, whatever, believe that they can be. They can change their biological sex, whatever it may be. It's all Antichrist. And we need to stop, especially as Christians. There's too many Christians out there that say, like, well, you know, who am I to tell people, like, how to live their life? It's like, man, if you had the cure to a disease and you kept it to yourself, you are selfish. You are somebody that. You don't want to see these other people saved. You don't want to see these people healed, from their sin. And these are things that need to be called out. And I just wish, more and more that Christians decide to step up and push back against these things, because that is the best way to love people, is to give them the truth.
Jenna Ellis: Yeah, that's absolutely true. And, you know, when people say, well, why. Why is truth objective? Or, why can't I just have my truth? Well, do you want the true answer or the false one? I mean, it's. It's remarkable to me how much suppression in unrighteousness. Like Romans 1, says that there will be, especially in the last days, that people would prefer to suppress the truth and live in their lie, even knowing it's a lie, rather than be thankful for the truth and pursuing the truth. I mean, it's been remarkable to me, Jon, even in things, that aren't nearly as substantial as, you know, the redemption, truth of Christ and where we're going to spend eternity and, you know, these really big questions. But even just, you know, in the midst of, like, political propaganda, people aren't Looking for truth. They're looking for bias confirmation. They're looking for their team to prevail. They're looking for their opinions to prevail. And and just for their, their truth. I mean there's this remarkable cognitive dissonance in today's society that we are genuinely. A lot of apologists call this a post truth society where we aren't even concerned about what's true versus what's not. We're only concerned about what wins or the power or you know, whether we get what we want. And why do you think that is?
Jon Root: I think it just goes back to our sin nature. I mean we are in rebellion to God as soon as we're in this world. That's what it is. that's unfortunately, the effect of the fall. And what I think of just more and more is the way that God has been redefined. We know that Scripture tells us that God is the same yesterday, today, and always and forever. But people believe in this. Just like you were talking about this almost post truth and this postmodern era. What people that get in what consider themselves exvangelicals, deconstructionists, they believe almost in this form of antichrist enlightenment. it's a different form of Gnosticism, in my opinion, that they have this special knowledge that we can live in this sin. That, you know, the way I view God, I can view God a certain way, I can read scripture a certain way. I can still consider myself a Christian. While some quote unquote conservative Christian would tell me, no, no, no, no, like you can't live this way and still enter the kingdom of heaven. that's why people believe that they can, you know, Andy Stanley out there, you can unhinge the NewSong Testament from the Old Testament. you can say, oh, those are just Paul's words and I'm going to stick to the red letters. And again, it's just all it's doing is upending the authority of Scripture. They're trying to, they're trying to uproot, the foundational aspect of scripture by which we live our lives and the standard by which we are held to as Christians. And postmodernism is going to tell you my truth trumps the truth. Or even more dangerous, that there is no such thing as objective truth. Like you've mentioned that it is up to you. It's like it's your journey.
Christianity can be defined based off your sexual desires, John says
Like, and I feel like that's why there's this, this aspect of Christianity can be defined Based off your sexual desires. That's what people will say, and that, you know, God wouldn't give you these desires, which is already insane to say that like, God is like, tempting you in these things and trying to push you towards sin and saying that God wouldn't give me these desires or I wouldn't be, quote, unquote, born this way. if God didn't want me to live into this and be my whole self and live in my truth, I mean, people again, gotta remember these buzzwords. And more than anything, 1st Peter 3:15, always have a defense for the hope you have. And please understand scripture. People like this will try to twist it. And if you don't understand, Scripture, you will be tossed to and fro by every which way of doctrine, and false doctrine. So we, we have to be prepared for these times.
Jenna Ellis: Yeah. So, so well said. And what would you say, Jon, to the people who, you know, who may be listening to this and saying, well, you can't judge the heart. And so, you know, Micah Passens may say that he's homosexual, but, you know, who do you, who do you say that? Who are you to say that he's not a Christian? And we can't make those judgments and all that because we hear that all the time that we can't, make the judgment which, you know, the Bible clearly says you will know them by their fruit. And if the fruit is not Christian and is not in consistency with what the Bible requires, then, then we know that they're not displaying the truth, and the fruit of genuinely being Christian. So what would you say to those who just say, well, you know, anybody can call themselves a Christian, but they can any way that they want. And we can't, we can't comment on their Christian life,
Jon Root: you know, and what I would say is I would love a conversation and have been in conversations many times, even when I was working at Turning Point usa talking to atheists and deconstructionists, had plenty of those conversations. online. It's a crazy day and age how we can connect with people. unfortunately, too often it's more of arguments than it is proper discussion. But if I was able to sit down with him, I would simply ask, do you love Jesus Christ, the Jesus Christ of the Bible? And if he said yes, I would go to Jon 14:15. If you love me, you will keep my commandments. Do you believe that you are keeping Jesus's commandments? What scripture clearly teaches, on this? And it would have to get To a place where it's like, either you're going to be truthful with me and say that you're not, or you're going to lie to me and tell me that you are. And we could easily have a conversation about you are on a pathway to destruction. The sexually m. Immoral, will not enter heaven. It's not up to me. It's not about, oh, Jon or Jenna, think this way.
Jon Root: Like you are already. Maybe if you're upset that like, maybe I'm quote unquote judging you or other conservative Christians are judging you. I. The term is fascinating with a lot of people that just live in the world and they say only God can judge me. And it's like, bro, you actually should be terrified of that.
Jenna Ellis: Yeah.
Jon Root: God judging you means eternal torment because you want to live in your sexual desire. There is freedom in Christ, no doubt. Some people really struggle, with some sexual thoughts. I mean, for me, like, I constantly, and I wrap up with this me, I am married to my wife.
Jon Root: But obviously in its sin nature, like, you love men, Jenna. I love women. I'm committed to my wife. That's a covenant I made before God. I can't make an excuse to be like, well, I like, I like pretty women. And then I can just live into that sexual desire. It's like, no, I've made a covenant before God and with my wife. I can't just say just because I have these sexual desires, I have these lustful thoughts that I need to give in to those things, you know, that that's, it's again like there's such this like, dissidence that people have for like, well, if I'm gay, I should just be able to do whatever I want sexually. But you know, for some reason it's like not okay for heterosexual people just go sleep with whoever, like they, they pick and choose. And in general it's like, if you love Jesus, you keep his commandments. Because I love Jesus, I'm faithful to my wife. Because I love Jesus, I would want him to know the truth. Because I love Jesus, I will proudly proclaim, the truth. Not because it makes me look more righteous. It's because I want people to find that freedom, that hope, that peace and fulfillment that can only be found through Christ. And the only way that you can find peace, and a way out of that sexual sin is through the power of the Holy Spirit. and that's what I want people like him to know and anybody else that is gay. Affirming and would still consider themselves a Christian. Because if you love Jesus, you will keep his commandments. If you love Jesus, you will follow his word. If you don't, you don't actually love Jesus. And I am terrified for your soul.
Jenna Ellis: Yeah, so, so compassionately said Jon. And it's so true that, you know, when we're talking about sexual ethics, often, the accusation, against the Christian who's living in the, Lord's commands and abiding by them and saying, this is just what the Lord has commanded. It's not my opinion. Your opinion? We're accused of only condemning the homosexual lifestyle when in fact sexual ethics apply to everyone. I mean, there are things like you rightly pointed out, even as heterosexuals, we don't. We can't just go out and do whatever we want and, act on the impulses of our desires. I mean, we're not asking of, of just one category to be confined and not live out their desires while we're going out and doing whatever we want. I mean, the Christian life and the truth requires being confined to that truth. And that is actually loving. It's actually the best way to, to live. And it's also required by how God has imposed moral truth on the reality to which we are presented. And we can either accept that, we can reject that, but we can't call ourselves Christians and not actually abide in the Christian life. And as you said, desire first and foremost, above all of our other desires, then this is where we have a transformed life, a transformed heart regenerated, all of those, amazing terms of salvation. We need to desire first and foremost to live as Christ wants us to, to live in righteousness and to be absolutely disgusted by sin, which is part of every person. It's not just condemning the homosexual lifestyle. It's saying that everyone is a sinner in all kinds of ways. And, these contours of truth are imposed upon everyone. And ultimately it's for our good. And the redemptive work of Christ is so that we can spend eternity with him and not in eternal punishment and damnation. Because you're so right, Jon, that, you know, when people just say, well, God will judge me, you don't want that. You want to be embraced by God as His child, not to be cast out into outer darkness for eternity when he says, depart from me, I never knew you. And, those are the stakes of reality. And that is the truth of reality.
Jenna: John Root, where can people reach you across social media
So we've got to take another break here, but Jon Root, I so appreciate you coming on for this important conversation. where can people reach you across social media?
Jon Root: Everybody can follow me. And again Jenna, thank you so much for having me on. I appreciate this conversation because this is something we need to fight back against as Christians. But I'm on X, Instagram, Facebook, you can just go. Tonyrootj o n n Y r o o t Always happy to talk about things from a biblical perspective and give people the truth of the gospel. Appreciate you, Jenna.
Jenna Ellis: Amen. I appreciate you too, my friend. All right, we will be right back with more.
Jenna Ellis: Until Christians advocate for clear biblical definition of family, we lose ground
Ah, welcome back to Jenna Ellis in the Morning on American Family Radio.
Jenna Ellis: Welcome back. And these questions are so important to our eternal security and also the way that we live our lives today. Because you don't want to get to the end of your life and regret not living your life for Christ. And in light of truth, that should be a consistent theme and a consistent goal, is that we should pursue truth and we should grow in the knowledge of truth, which ultimately means growing in the knowledge of the person of truth, Jesus Christ. As I mentioned at the outset of this program, we talk often, about the definition of the civil government as one of the institutions that God ordained. And we also have talked some about the church government, what that looks like living locally in submission to a local church that is, that is God fearing, that teaches correct doctrine and theology and also exercises church discipline as as a way to ensure that we are living uprightly and that our families are living uprightly. And I want to talk, just for the last few minutes on this program about the family because we for years have debated same sex marriage, surrogacy, the growing commercialization of children as though they're separate issues when really they're not. Because every one of these debates and the questions that we have been talking about, even with Jon Root, flows from a much deeper question, and that is what is a family? Matt Walsh went very viral and famous for asking the question what is a woman? And you know, of course the left can't define that and doesn't want to define that and wants to reinvent it and suggest that anyone who happens to feel like they're a woman can say that they are. And he made the point, and I think very effectively, that the laws of nature and of nature's God and biology and empirical fact determine who is a woman and who is not. Well, until Christians recover and advocate for the clear biblical definition of family, we will continue losing cultural ground because we're arguing the symptoms and the downstream consequences of an incoherent view of, family instead of the coherent biblical natural definition of family. So the modern world defines family primarily through adult desire and emotional attachment. I mean, this is similar to what we were talking about in the last few segments. But it goes deeper than just sexuality or the definition of marriage. The definition of family matters because if adults simply love each other, desire companionship, or wish to raise children together, society calls that a family. So, I mean, you've heard that from Gen Z. Hey, fam. And who are they referring to? Well, just their friends. Right? Your fam now is whomever you choose, not who you're actually related to. So biology and marriage and parenthood and all of those things become secondary to personal preference and emotional attachment. But scripture defines family very differently and very clearly. So biblically, family is the covenantal institution created by God in Genesis 1, the very beginning, through the union of one man and one woman, as husband and wife, ordered toward permanence, faithfulness, and the raising of children. Family is not simply about adult companionship. It is the natural bonds between a husband and wife first, then mother, father, and, the children that are a product of that marriage, whether biologically or through adoption, which is actually a beautiful reflection of the gospel story, how we are grafted into the family of God. And so that distinction and that definition changes everything. Because if marriage is merely about adult happiness or sexual preference, then there's no reason it must involve only one man and only one woman. Why not have two men or five men and a dog? It doesn't matter. But if marriage is the God ordained structure through which families are formed, then one male and one female are not interchangeable parts. They are essential to what creates that family unit. And this is why in Genesis 1 it says, For a man shall leave his father and mother, leave his family unit in which he was a child and a product of that union, and be united to his wife. The two shall become one. They have now formed a new family unit, and that is the primary family, that is your immediate family. And so so many of the confusions, even in Christian circles where you have, And my mom, who a lot of, you know, is a. Is a biblical counselor. So so many people come to her and say, you know, a man will say, well, I'm torn between my wife and my mom, and my mom wants me to do this, my wife wants me to do that. And it's almost like they're equating the two relationships where. No, I mean, honor your father and mother, but that looks Very different than considering your parents, your immediate and primary family and your family unit. So one man, one woman in the covenant of marriage as the formation and foundation of the family unit is essential. And the same is true for surrogacy and donor conception. Also adoption when it comes to adding children to that family unit. And so today's infertility industry speaks almost entirely about the, and in the terms of adult rights and desires. Adults who want children, adults who want to have sex with whomever they prefer. You know, adults who feel called to parenthood, adults who desire, a relationship with, whether it's same sex or with a throuple or, you know, in the UK there was some lady who married a chandelier. I mean, it becomes absurd, right? And adults who can afford the process. But missing from the conversation is the child's right to his or her own mother and father being part of that family unit. And so instead, children have increasingly become products of contracts and technology. And this becomes especially clear when a same sex couple or throuple or whoever, or even a single individual, a man or a woman, seeks to obtain a child despite lacking the natural ability to conceive one within that family unit. So by necessity, motherhood or fatherhood is outsourced. It's severed or purchased. So Christians must be willing to say clearly and compassionately that children aren't commodities designed to fulfill adult desires. Marriage isn't a commodity designed to fulfill an adult desire. Restore the foundation. Family is not, whatever society decides to call it. Family is God's design. Husband, wife, and the children who come into that family unit bound together in covenant, responsibility and love across generations. This would solve so much of the social issues if we actually stood up for the definition of the family. And as always, you can reach me and my team, Jenna@AFR net.
Jenna Ellis: Rights that our founders recognize come from God our Creator
Jenna Ellis in the morning on American Family Radio. I love talking about the things of God because of truth and the biblical worldview, the U.S. constitution obligates our government to preserve and protect. The rights that our founders recognize come from God our Creator, not our government. I believe that scripture in the Bible is very clear that God is the one that raised up each of you, and God has allowed us to be brought here to this specific moment in time. This is Jenna Ellis in the morning.
Memorial Day is more of a solemn day of remembrance for the fallen
Jenna Ellis: Good morning. It is Friday, May 22, and we are heading into a long weekend because of Memorial Day. And I always thought it was a little weird to say happy Memorial Day. It's more of a solemn day of remembrance for the fallen, as opposed to Veterans Day, which, is happier. And it celebrates and recognizes and honors, our living veterans who've served in the US Military, and for our country. And Memorial Day honors, those who we have lost, whether it is in, in the context of war, or their military service or because of the effects of that or simply, they are no longer with us because, that is the ultimate, end that the Lord has in his sovereignty, ordained that it is once for man to die. And, that is why we look forward to eternity and have to answer those questions of who are we? What is our purpose here while we are l? And then, what happens when we die? So a lot of big M questions this morning. And this is why the truth of the gospel of Christ is the only reliable, internally consistent explanation for the truth of the reality to which we are presented that answers those questions about who we are, our identity, our identity that is only in Christ, explains the problem of evil in the world. And, why we even perceive evil as evil, good as good. And we understand because the law of God is written on our hearts, that measurable difference between right and wrong, good and evil, and that there is a solution to evil, which is redemption in Christ. And all of us, all human beings must come to a point where we either acknowledge the truth of reality or we suppress that truth in unrighteousness and choose to not take part in that redemptive plan that Christ offers so that we can have our eternity secured. And all of those bigger questions, then when we answer that from a truthful perspective, we look at reality truthfully, consistently, and we recognize the redemptive gospel story that necessarily influences then what we think about other topics, what we think about the three institutions that God has ordained. Civil government, church government and family. Government and family government is where I actually want to focus today, though we acknowledge and absolutely thank all of our veterans who have come before, on Memorial Day, and, I hope that you will, tune in on Monday. We'll have a, special re air of an episode on religious freedom and, the rights that have been secured by, our veterans and those who have given, their lives as the last full measure of their devotion and sacrifice to. To this great nation to continue to protect our rights, like, free exercise of religion.
Christian song Testify to Love being misappropriated as LGBTQ anthem
And so I want to focus though, on the family today, because that particular definition I think that we don't talk about enough in the context of the civil government and the church government and what it actually means to be a family. And this question has, kind of come up in the context of, you know, a wide variety of headlines, but most recently that week, if you are, an 80s kid like me and kind of came of age in the 90s, which was, one of the best times, I think. And I remember it fondly with nostalgia. You may remember, the Christian music artist, group Avalon, and one of their main songs, which, was titled Testify to Love, and of course was a Christian song, just like one of their other favorites that I sing still have on, my Spotify playlist is called AD&I and is recognizing and acknowledging God the Father. And yet now fast Forward from the 90s to 2026, and the headline here from Church Leaders.com is LGBTQ+Community embraces the re release of, Avalon's Testify to Love from founding member who says he was ousted for being gay. So basically what's going on is that almost 30 years after it topped the contemporary Christian music or CCM music charts, Testify to Love is being misappropriated and re appropriated as actually an artifact of Christian culture, and it is being repurposed as an LGBTQ anthem. But not just that. I mean, there are a lot of things that, the. Those who suppress the truth and unrighteousness, whether we call them the left, the LGBT community, you know, all of those who are. Who are godless, sinners, basically, and they're still, unrepentant in their sin. They appropriate a lot of things from Christian culture, from truthful culture. They've appropriated the rainbow to be a symbol of, their sin. They've appropriated what it means to be a family, what it means to have a marriage. they are trying to reinvent these terms to serve their purposes. And this particular headline from Avalon goes even a step further because not only are they reappropriating this song and hailing it as a gay anthem, which it's not, but they are actually suggesting that at the time in the 90s, 1997 to be exact, that even at that time it was a gay anthem. It was just sold under the auspices of being Christian. I mean, this would be like going back to a Genesis 6 and suggesting that when God placed the rainbow in the sky, he intended originally for it to be a symbol of gay pride. I mean, we all know that is patently false and it's wrong. And so we need to call this out and we need to have truthful definitions and not allow Christian culture, truthful culture, meaning, definitions, and all of this to not just be reinvented in 2026 and misappropriated, but also that the truth about our history, whether it's all the way back in Genesis or just back in the 90s, we are truthful about what things mean, what they meant at the time, and what they still mean for today.
Jenna Deuter: John Root is a faith, sports and culture commentator
So let's welcome in my, good friend Jon Root, who is a faith, sports and culture commentator. You should follow him on all platforms, not just X. he's very prolific on Instagram and Facebook as well, with some really excellent response videos. I always watch those from a cultural perspective. And so, Jon, I'm really glad that you joined this morning, because I think that this is such a key point for Christians to understand that it's not just a ripoff. Now in 2026, Avalon is suggesting that even though they kicked out and said, you know, you're. You're basically not acting as a Christian, one of their fellow band members because he was gay. which is correct in terms of, you know, you shouldn't be part of a Christian music band if you are not living a Christian life. Not just homosexuality, but everything. and yet they're claiming that back in 1997 this was a gay anthem. I mean, it's just. It's false.
Jon Root: Yeah, it seems like there's a lot of revisionist history that's happening within contemporary Christian music. And I mean, I was a 90s kid, I was born in 91, and, you know, I grew up with Steven Curtis Chapman, jars of Clay, D.C. talk. And it felt like that was a heyday, growing up. And then now you see, I mean, probably a lot of people listening. I know you and I, Jenna, we follow the amount of CCM artists that have deconstructed are gay affirming, don't believe in Hell, and have completely left the face. and what comes to mind is they went out from us because they were never of us. But it does feel, And people should feel a little icky lack, of a better term that these people that we listened to when we were younger or, you allowed your kids to listen to these people. And then now you see that, you know, their. Their goal was to subvert scripture. They were not actually Christians themselves. It comes. The meme comes to mind of, you got a lady talking to a man and, saying, like, well, I got church hurt. And then the guy's saying, be honest. Like, no, no, no, I'm telling you, the church hurt me. The guy's saying, be honest. And then the person in the meme finally says, I just wanted to be gay. And the church, was against that. It just feels like the same thing over and over. They're going to call it church hurt. They're going to call it, abuse. They're going to call it whatever it is, because legitimate Christians were telling them that they're living in sin and that they weren't going to promote sin through their church, through their ministry, through their musical ministry, whatever it may be. but it feels like, a lot of these individuals, their faith was actually rocky ground and their house was built on sand. And it should be pretty disappointing for many of us that listened to this music growing up.
Jenna Ellis: Yeah, absolutely. And you know, and to clarify, this isn't the full group Avalon, that is re releasing this. This is, Micah Passens, who was a founding member of Avalon, and he released this with Ty Herndon, who's a country singer who is also openly homosexual. And it also, features former Avalon member Melissa Greene, who wrote a substack, basically suggesting that this is a queer anthem. Or not suggesting she's openly saying this and saying that this is what this song has always meant. And you're absolutely right that, you know, these people who are going completely against the faith and the religion that they once claimed to represent, we can question what. Whether they were ever Christians to begin with. Because even last, And this article from church leaders describes last December, Passens described being forced out of Avalon in 20 or in 2003 because he, quote, fit. Didn't fit into the group's conservative narrative. And after giving his whole life to Christian church and faith, he told the interviewer, quote, they threw me out at the first hint. I violated a scripture in Deuteronomy. Now let's break that down, because it's not Just fitting into a group's narrative, like, you know, you didn't wear the T shirt or the band logo and, and some kind of narrative that you can accept or reject and also, like, focus on how they're marginalizing. How he's marginalizing a clear violation of Scripture, which is living in sin. But he's trying to minimize it as if, like, I violated a random, you know, very obscure passage in Deuteronomy, and that doesn't equal the rest of my life. being lived as a Christian. You can't live in sin and live as a homosexual and still claim that you're walking the Christian life. But he's trying on purpose to suggest that you can.
Jon Root: And the interesting part too is when he talks about I didn't fit into their basically conservative box, their conservative bubble. He's already making this political. He wants people to think that truly holding to what Scripture says is more Republican than it is Christian. And maybe he doesn't specifically mean Republican. But how often do we hear that, Jenna, where it's like, oh, you know, this church is just ultra conservative, or those Christian parents are conservative. It's like, no, this is about, we live by the authority of Scripture. By what standard do we make the decisions, that we make as Christians? It's Scripture. So he wants to frame it as some sort of political ideology that they're stuck in. and clearly he obviously wouldn't think that he is beholden to the authority of scripture. And once he already turns this into a political conversation, he now is probably trying to spin this to be, oh, this is just a conservative perspective of, Deuteronomy. And then that's what a lot of these people that just want to live in unrepentant sin and then try to shame the people that probably genuinely, when we talk about love. The best way to love people is to give them the truth. And that's what is mind blowing within these gay affirming churches. How the United Methodist Church is completely, gone off the rails when it comes to LGBTQ stuff. And the, a lot of ways people that are self professed Christians, these institutions, these missions groups, these, musical groups, they're looking like the world. They believe that they can have one foot in the world and they can use the world's language like love is love or like a redefinition of love when the Bible is clear on what love is. And, love abides in the truth. And I think in general, it just goes back to my point that he's, I believe he's turning this into more of a political issue, than an actual Biblical issue. But if you make it a political issue, then that becomes, a basically free for all of how you interpret the Bible. He can say, well, your conservative perspective tells me that Deuteronomy says this. My more liberal perspective tells me Deuteronomy says that. And then you're getting tossed to and fro by political ideology and things of the world than the actual foundational truth of Scripture.
Jenna Ellis: Yeah, and that is so spot on, Jon Root, because Passens actually says that, because according to Glad, the gay, the gay Allegiance group that actually covered this story with great enthusiasm, of course, because they love seeing Christian Christians, fall for sin. Right. they say that the new rendition, which features an all star chorus of emerging LGBTQ artists and advocates, tries to honor the song's core message of fostering a spirit of inclusion. That's not the song's core message, but that's what they're trying to make it be. And Passon says, quote, for years I sang these lyrics while hiding who I truly was. To record this now, standing fully in my truth is a full circle moment I once thought impossible. It serves as a testimony that love does not exclude. So first of all, I mean, he's. He's openly admitting this is standpoint epistemology, which is basically just the truth from my perspective, which is not truth at all. But he's standing in my truth instead of the truth, which is wrong. And Christians cannot advocate for that because there's no truth separate and apart from the person of Jesus Christ, who is the living embodiment of truth, and that he has created all things, including the truth of reality, for his own sovereign purposes. We don't have the ability to change that. But he's disclaiming the truth in favor of his truth, which is wrong. So he's standing in sin. But also the fact that he says this serves as a testimony that love does not exclude. Allie Beth Stuckey did a really good job of breaking this down on her show, and that was actually where I first saw, this particular headline. And she made the point that I want to emphasize here, Jon, that she says, of course love is. Is exclusive, and we do exclude certain forms of love. I mean, that is a ridiculous, absurd premise because we definitely exclude love between family members. It's called incest.
John Root: If you are not rooted in scripture, you are deceived
Right. We ex. We exclude, love between an adult and a child that's sexually inappropriate. That's, you know, that's called pedophilia. we exclude Love that, forces one person on another, it's called rape. I mean, there are, there are ways that we absolutely exclude forms of love, but this is the lie overall, the LGBTQ movement, that love is love and no one can condemn any form of adult desire.
Jon Root: And that's what Christians need to realize, is if you are not rooted in scripture, you are going to be deceived by these things. You are going to believe that my truth can trump the truth, or maybe that in certain situations there isn't actually a foundational truth. It's wherever fate leads you. Follow your heart. You know, it seems like, so many deconstructionists claim, that they're finding freedom when they are in bondage to sin. They are saying, I have given up and I am in bondage to my sin and I care more about honoring myself, my own desires than the person who made me. And I think that should people, should Christians that are listening to this, watch out for those buzzwords. The my truth that people, we are all self centered there. It goes back to Genesis, the very first book of the Bible. Did God really say Satan is telling Eve that? Obviously you talk about like, the family structure and the hierarchy. Adam was not a provider and protector in that moment, was not protecting his wife, was not listening to what God, said. And a lot of us men, I think, need to step up in these situations and take care of the vulnerable, including, the susceptible young Christians out there. But if we start believing, oh, did God really say that about gay marriage? did he really say that about all these LGBTQ issues? And then it turns into, well, you know, if you eat of this fruit, you're going to find enlightenment, you're going to find freedom, you're not going to be in bondage to this strict religious system, that has been oppressing the west and the world for so long. It's, I mean, it's just deep rooted evil. And I think that's what we need to call this stuff. I still think we hear stories like this. We need to pray for these individuals, pray their heart is softened and they leave their sin and God provides people in their lives, that God can use for his glory, to get them out of this sin. but my truth, this idea that Christianity is some sort of political ideology than some foundational truth, and then realizing that we are all selfish, we all allow sin to, take us over to some extent, but thankful for the freedom and peace that we find and fulfillment we find in Christ. But people, like these individuals that used to be part of Avalon are saying I care about myself more than I care about my Creator.
Jenna Ellis: Yeah, so well said Jon Root. And you know, it is so sad that these lies are infiltrating the church and those who profess to be Christians. And we have to take a break here. But Jon is going to stick with me through the break because I want to talk about that in the next segment. That we accept lies from the devil and from those who have denied God and who actively suppress the truth in their unrighteousness. We expect that, but it's even more sinister and frankly perverted, which that's the definition of perversion, is taking the truth and twisting it, manipulating it so that it doesn't look anything like what it actually is and should be. it is more perverted when it comes from the Mao's and the lives of those who profess to also be Christians. And so I want to talk about that when we come right back here, on Jenna Ellis in the Morning, my special guest Jon Root. You can follow him across social media platforms. We'll be right back.
Jenna Ellis: Truth versus suppression of truth and unrighteousness
Welcome back to Jenna Ellis in the Morning on American Family Radio.
Jenna Ellis: Welcome back. And I'm here with my special guest Jon Root, who is a faith sports and culture commentator. You can find him on X, Facebook, Instagram, all of the social media platforms. And you should follow him for his insights and reaction to the culture, with truth. And that's what we're talking about today is truth versus suppression of truth and unrighteousness. Because if there is such a thing as truth, then by definition it must be exclusive because there, ah, then there are things that are not true and truth is an exception, exclusive category. not all things can be true simultaneously. It's just a part of the reality to which we are presented. And so when we have truth, then we also have falsity. We have things that are not true. And the Christian in particular needs to be very discerning about truth versus falsity and recognizing that that is outside of our control and even in our opinion as well. I mean we can debate a lot of things. We can debate the best way, for example, to, to raise children, the best methods of education. We can debate the best route to get from A to B. We can debate a lot of things. But what we can't debate is central moral truths that God has woven into the fabric of reality that are not within our capacity to control or to even disagree with. I Mean, you may not like it, but too bad. I mean, you may not like the fact that gravity exists, but if you go up to a rooftop and you jump off as much as you might not like it, you will fall. I mean that's, that is the truth of reality, being, giving you the consequences in those moments. And while the truth of morality may not have such immediate consequences as the laws of gravity, there are consequences and even eternal ones nonetheless. And so when we're talking about this in the context of the Christian life, Jon, this is even more sinister and perverted in terms of twisted and and distorting the truth when it comes from Christians who suggest that they can live a Christian life, which by definition means that you've accepted the truth of reality. You've accepted the truth that Christ is Lord, that God is Creator and we are not, and that he has designed the world for his own sovereign purposes and his story and the redemption story of the Gospel. And that truth is what we will live by because we recognize truth is. And if we are proclaiming that and yet only picking and choosing the truth that we prefer. and in our example today with the issue of homosexuality or even same sex marriage, but even homosexuality in the sense of the relationships that God said, no sex is confined to the institution of marriage, which by definition is one man, one woman. That's it. we then are as a Christian community and as the church need to call that out and not be ashamed to and not care that people say, oh well that's judgmental. Well God is the judge, he's already judged that behavior. And so we are simply saying these two positions, Christianity and homosexuality or Christianity and any other sin, are not compatible simultaneously as a worldview. They cannot coexist as truth.
Jon Root: And what does scripture say, is love does not delight in evil, but rejoices with the truth. People promoting these lifestyles and living these lifestyles is evil. That's just plain and simple. This is, this is what it is. And when we talk about, you know, essentially false teachers, whether that be specific, what they consider to be self professed Christian institutions, individuals like now gay affirming and gay, active Christian contemporary musicians, I think of Second Peter, you know, what are some of the false teachers, that are called out in those chapters of that book. they deny the absolute authority of their Creator. They exploit people, they have their own greed, whether that be their own physical lust, whether it actually be money. They use fabricated words and they prioritize themselves over others. they live immoral lifestyles. they appeal to their fleshly desires. And like I was saying, a few minutes ago is there's this promise of freedom, but it's actually leading people, People into a deeper slavery to sin. And it is egregious to see these, quote, unquote Christian institutions and these quote, unquote Christians, that consider LGBTQ to be separate from all these other sins. M. You're not going to have even, like, I cover sports all the time, Jenna. You're not going to have a crime night, you're not going to have an adultery night, but they will have an LGBTQ pride night. You know, they are trying to dumb down this sin and this evil, and they're trying to indoctrinate the next generation, to accept this. Either be gay affirming and believe the best way to love people is to accept them in their, in their gay sin, their bisexuality, whatever, believe that they can be. They can change their biological sex, whatever it may be. It's all Antichrist. And we need to stop, especially as Christians. There's too many Christians out there that say, like, well, you know, who am I to tell people, like, how to live their life? It's like, man, if you had the cure to a disease and you kept it to yourself, you are selfish. You are somebody that. You don't want to see these other people saved. You don't want to see these people healed, from their sin. And these are things that need to be called out. And I just wish, more and more that Christians decide to step up and push back against these things, because that is the best way to love people, is to give them the truth.
Jenna Ellis: Yeah, that's absolutely true. And, you know, when people say, well, why. Why is truth objective? Or, why can't I just have my truth? Well, do you want the true answer or the false one? I mean, it's. It's remarkable to me how much suppression in unrighteousness. Like Romans 1, says that there will be, especially in the last days, that people would prefer to suppress the truth and live in their lie, even knowing it's a lie, rather than be thankful for the truth and pursuing the truth. I mean, it's been remarkable to me, Jon, even in things, that aren't nearly as substantial as, you know, the redemption, truth of Christ and where we're going to spend eternity and, you know, these really big questions. But even just, you know, in the midst of, like, political propaganda, people aren't Looking for truth. They're looking for bias confirmation. They're looking for their team to prevail. They're looking for their opinions to prevail. And and just for their, their truth. I mean there's this remarkable cognitive dissonance in today's society that we are genuinely. A lot of apologists call this a post truth society where we aren't even concerned about what's true versus what's not. We're only concerned about what wins or the power or you know, whether we get what we want. And why do you think that is?
Jon Root: I think it just goes back to our sin nature. I mean we are in rebellion to God as soon as we're in this world. That's what it is. that's unfortunately, the effect of the fall. And what I think of just more and more is the way that God has been redefined. We know that Scripture tells us that God is the same yesterday, today, and always and forever. But people believe in this. Just like you were talking about this almost post truth and this postmodern era. What people that get in what consider themselves exvangelicals, deconstructionists, they believe almost in this form of antichrist enlightenment. it's a different form of Gnosticism, in my opinion, that they have this special knowledge that we can live in this sin. That, you know, the way I view God, I can view God a certain way, I can read scripture a certain way. I can still consider myself a Christian. While some quote unquote conservative Christian would tell me, no, no, no, no, like you can't live this way and still enter the kingdom of heaven. that's why people believe that they can, you know, Andy Stanley out there, you can unhinge the NewSong Testament from the Old Testament. you can say, oh, those are just Paul's words and I'm going to stick to the red letters. And again, it's just all it's doing is upending the authority of Scripture. They're trying to, they're trying to uproot, the foundational aspect of scripture by which we live our lives and the standard by which we are held to as Christians. And postmodernism is going to tell you my truth trumps the truth. Or even more dangerous, that there is no such thing as objective truth. Like you've mentioned that it is up to you. It's like it's your journey.
Christianity can be defined based off your sexual desires, John says
Like, and I feel like that's why there's this, this aspect of Christianity can be defined Based off your sexual desires. That's what people will say, and that, you know, God wouldn't give you these desires, which is already insane to say that like, God is like, tempting you in these things and trying to push you towards sin and saying that God wouldn't give me these desires or I wouldn't be, quote, unquote, born this way. if God didn't want me to live into this and be my whole self and live in my truth, I mean, people again, gotta remember these buzzwords. And more than anything, 1st Peter 3:15, always have a defense for the hope you have. And please understand scripture. People like this will try to twist it. And if you don't understand, Scripture, you will be tossed to and fro by every which way of doctrine, and false doctrine. So we, we have to be prepared for these times.
Jenna Ellis: Yeah. So, so well said. And what would you say, Jon, to the people who, you know, who may be listening to this and saying, well, you can't judge the heart. And so, you know, Micah Passens may say that he's homosexual, but, you know, who do you, who do you say that? Who are you to say that he's not a Christian? And we can't make those judgments and all that because we hear that all the time that we can't, make the judgment which, you know, the Bible clearly says you will know them by their fruit. And if the fruit is not Christian and is not in consistency with what the Bible requires, then, then we know that they're not displaying the truth, and the fruit of genuinely being Christian. So what would you say to those who just say, well, you know, anybody can call themselves a Christian, but they can any way that they want. And we can't, we can't comment on their Christian life,
Jon Root: you know, and what I would say is I would love a conversation and have been in conversations many times, even when I was working at Turning Point usa talking to atheists and deconstructionists, had plenty of those conversations. online. It's a crazy day and age how we can connect with people. unfortunately, too often it's more of arguments than it is proper discussion. But if I was able to sit down with him, I would simply ask, do you love Jesus Christ, the Jesus Christ of the Bible? And if he said yes, I would go to Jon 14:15. If you love me, you will keep my commandments. Do you believe that you are keeping Jesus's commandments? What scripture clearly teaches, on this? And it would have to get To a place where it's like, either you're going to be truthful with me and say that you're not, or you're going to lie to me and tell me that you are. And we could easily have a conversation about you are on a pathway to destruction. The sexually m. Immoral, will not enter heaven. It's not up to me. It's not about, oh, Jon or Jenna, think this way.
Jon Root: Like you are already. Maybe if you're upset that like, maybe I'm quote unquote judging you or other conservative Christians are judging you. I. The term is fascinating with a lot of people that just live in the world and they say only God can judge me. And it's like, bro, you actually should be terrified of that.
Jenna Ellis: Yeah.
Jon Root: God judging you means eternal torment because you want to live in your sexual desire. There is freedom in Christ, no doubt. Some people really struggle, with some sexual thoughts. I mean, for me, like, I constantly, and I wrap up with this me, I am married to my wife.
Jon Root: But obviously in its sin nature, like, you love men, Jenna. I love women. I'm committed to my wife. That's a covenant I made before God. I can't make an excuse to be like, well, I like, I like pretty women. And then I can just live into that sexual desire. It's like, no, I've made a covenant before God and with my wife. I can't just say just because I have these sexual desires, I have these lustful thoughts that I need to give in to those things, you know, that that's, it's again like there's such this like, dissidence that people have for like, well, if I'm gay, I should just be able to do whatever I want sexually. But you know, for some reason it's like not okay for heterosexual people just go sleep with whoever, like they, they pick and choose. And in general it's like, if you love Jesus, you keep his commandments. Because I love Jesus, I'm faithful to my wife. Because I love Jesus, I would want him to know the truth. Because I love Jesus, I will proudly proclaim, the truth. Not because it makes me look more righteous. It's because I want people to find that freedom, that hope, that peace and fulfillment that can only be found through Christ. And the only way that you can find peace, and a way out of that sexual sin is through the power of the Holy Spirit. and that's what I want people like him to know and anybody else that is gay. Affirming and would still consider themselves a Christian. Because if you love Jesus, you will keep his commandments. If you love Jesus, you will follow his word. If you don't, you don't actually love Jesus. And I am terrified for your soul.
Jenna Ellis: Yeah, so, so compassionately said Jon. And it's so true that, you know, when we're talking about sexual ethics, often, the accusation, against the Christian who's living in the, Lord's commands and abiding by them and saying, this is just what the Lord has commanded. It's not my opinion. Your opinion? We're accused of only condemning the homosexual lifestyle when in fact sexual ethics apply to everyone. I mean, there are things like you rightly pointed out, even as heterosexuals, we don't. We can't just go out and do whatever we want and, act on the impulses of our desires. I mean, we're not asking of, of just one category to be confined and not live out their desires while we're going out and doing whatever we want. I mean, the Christian life and the truth requires being confined to that truth. And that is actually loving. It's actually the best way to, to live. And it's also required by how God has imposed moral truth on the reality to which we are presented. And we can either accept that, we can reject that, but we can't call ourselves Christians and not actually abide in the Christian life. And as you said, desire first and foremost, above all of our other desires, then this is where we have a transformed life, a transformed heart regenerated, all of those, amazing terms of salvation. We need to desire first and foremost to live as Christ wants us to, to live in righteousness and to be absolutely disgusted by sin, which is part of every person. It's not just condemning the homosexual lifestyle. It's saying that everyone is a sinner in all kinds of ways. And, these contours of truth are imposed upon everyone. And ultimately it's for our good. And the redemptive work of Christ is so that we can spend eternity with him and not in eternal punishment and damnation. Because you're so right, Jon, that, you know, when people just say, well, God will judge me, you don't want that. You want to be embraced by God as His child, not to be cast out into outer darkness for eternity when he says, depart from me, I never knew you. And, those are the stakes of reality. And that is the truth of reality.
Jenna: John Root, where can people reach you across social media
So we've got to take another break here, but Jon Root, I so appreciate you coming on for this important conversation. where can people reach you across social media?
Jon Root: Everybody can follow me. And again Jenna, thank you so much for having me on. I appreciate this conversation because this is something we need to fight back against as Christians. But I'm on X, Instagram, Facebook, you can just go. Tonyrootj o n n Y r o o t Always happy to talk about things from a biblical perspective and give people the truth of the gospel. Appreciate you, Jenna.
Jenna Ellis: Amen. I appreciate you too, my friend. All right, we will be right back with more.
Jenna Ellis: Until Christians advocate for clear biblical definition of family, we lose ground
Ah, welcome back to Jenna Ellis in the Morning on American Family Radio.
Jenna Ellis: Welcome back. And these questions are so important to our eternal security and also the way that we live our lives today. Because you don't want to get to the end of your life and regret not living your life for Christ. And in light of truth, that should be a consistent theme and a consistent goal, is that we should pursue truth and we should grow in the knowledge of truth, which ultimately means growing in the knowledge of the person of truth, Jesus Christ. As I mentioned at the outset of this program, we talk often, about the definition of the civil government as one of the institutions that God ordained. And we also have talked some about the church government, what that looks like living locally in submission to a local church that is, that is God fearing, that teaches correct doctrine and theology and also exercises church discipline as as a way to ensure that we are living uprightly and that our families are living uprightly. And I want to talk, just for the last few minutes on this program about the family because we for years have debated same sex marriage, surrogacy, the growing commercialization of children as though they're separate issues when really they're not. Because every one of these debates and the questions that we have been talking about, even with Jon Root, flows from a much deeper question, and that is what is a family? Matt Walsh went very viral and famous for asking the question what is a woman? And you know, of course the left can't define that and doesn't want to define that and wants to reinvent it and suggest that anyone who happens to feel like they're a woman can say that they are. And he made the point, and I think very effectively, that the laws of nature and of nature's God and biology and empirical fact determine who is a woman and who is not. Well, until Christians recover and advocate for the clear biblical definition of family, we will continue losing cultural ground because we're arguing the symptoms and the downstream consequences of an incoherent view of, family instead of the coherent biblical natural definition of family. So the modern world defines family primarily through adult desire and emotional attachment. I mean, this is similar to what we were talking about in the last few segments. But it goes deeper than just sexuality or the definition of marriage. The definition of family matters because if adults simply love each other, desire companionship, or wish to raise children together, society calls that a family. So, I mean, you've heard that from Gen Z. Hey, fam. And who are they referring to? Well, just their friends. Right? Your fam now is whomever you choose, not who you're actually related to. So biology and marriage and parenthood and all of those things become secondary to personal preference and emotional attachment. But scripture defines family very differently and very clearly. So biblically, family is the covenantal institution created by God in Genesis 1, the very beginning, through the union of one man and one woman, as husband and wife, ordered toward permanence, faithfulness, and the raising of children. Family is not simply about adult companionship. It is the natural bonds between a husband and wife first, then mother, father, and, the children that are a product of that marriage, whether biologically or through adoption, which is actually a beautiful reflection of the gospel story, how we are grafted into the family of God. And so that distinction and that definition changes everything. Because if marriage is merely about adult happiness or sexual preference, then there's no reason it must involve only one man and only one woman. Why not have two men or five men and a dog? It doesn't matter. But if marriage is the God ordained structure through which families are formed, then one male and one female are not interchangeable parts. They are essential to what creates that family unit. And this is why in Genesis 1 it says, For a man shall leave his father and mother, leave his family unit in which he was a child and a product of that union, and be united to his wife. The two shall become one. They have now formed a new family unit, and that is the primary family, that is your immediate family. And so so many of the confusions, even in Christian circles where you have, And my mom, who a lot of, you know, is a. Is a biblical counselor. So so many people come to her and say, you know, a man will say, well, I'm torn between my wife and my mom, and my mom wants me to do this, my wife wants me to do that. And it's almost like they're equating the two relationships where. No, I mean, honor your father and mother, but that looks Very different than considering your parents, your immediate and primary family and your family unit. So one man, one woman in the covenant of marriage as the formation and foundation of the family unit is essential. And the same is true for surrogacy and donor conception. Also adoption when it comes to adding children to that family unit. And so today's infertility industry speaks almost entirely about the, and in the terms of adult rights and desires. Adults who want children, adults who want to have sex with whomever they prefer. You know, adults who feel called to parenthood, adults who desire, a relationship with, whether it's same sex or with a throuple or, you know, in the UK there was some lady who married a chandelier. I mean, it becomes absurd, right? And adults who can afford the process. But missing from the conversation is the child's right to his or her own mother and father being part of that family unit. And so instead, children have increasingly become products of contracts and technology. And this becomes especially clear when a same sex couple or throuple or whoever, or even a single individual, a man or a woman, seeks to obtain a child despite lacking the natural ability to conceive one within that family unit. So by necessity, motherhood or fatherhood is outsourced. It's severed or purchased. So Christians must be willing to say clearly and compassionately that children aren't commodities designed to fulfill adult desires. Marriage isn't a commodity designed to fulfill an adult desire. Restore the foundation. Family is not, whatever society decides to call it. Family is God's design. Husband, wife, and the children who come into that family unit bound together in covenant, responsibility and love across generations. This would solve so much of the social issues if we actually stood up for the definition of the family. And as always, you can reach me and my team, Jenna@AFR net.
Jenna Ellis discusses the significance of truth and the biblical worldview as it relates to family, government, and the current cultural landscape. Joined by guest Jon Root, they delve into the reappropriation of Christian music and the implications of redefining family in today’s society. They explore how the concepts of love, identity, and morality are being challenged and distorted, urging listeners to stand firm in their faith and understanding of scripture.
(00:00) Jenna Ellis: Rights that our founders recognize come from God our Creator
(00:34) Memorial Day is more of a solemn day of remembrance for the fallen
(03:36) Christian song Testify to Love being misappropriated as LGBTQ anthem
(07:11) Jenna Deuter: John Root is a faith, sports and culture commentator
(16:52) John Root: If you are not rooted in scripture, you are deceived
(21:21) Jenna Ellis: Truth versus suppression of truth and unrighteousness
(31:37) Christianity can be defined based off your sexual desires, John says
(39:36) Jenna: John Root, where can people reach you across social media
(40:18) Jenna Ellis: Until Christians advocate for clear biblical definition of family, we lose ground
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