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 : and welcome to the Dr. Nurse Mama show, prescribing Hope for Healthy Families here on American Family Radio. Here's your host, professor, pediatric nurse practitioner and mom of four, Dr. Jessica Peck.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, hey there, friends, and welcome to my favorite time of day, getting to spend time with you, prescribing Hope for Healthy Families.

April is Child Abuse Prevention Month

Now listen, I want you to buckle in because we've got a tough topic today, but one that's really important. We are here at the last day of April, and April is Child Abuse Prevention Month. So that's what we're going to be talking about today. And I want to be clear about that up front because I know it can be a tough topic. I know I would advise listener discretion. Some of you may need to pray for discernment and wisdom if you have your own history of abuse. But listen, in spite of all of that, we've got to talk about it because kids are being abused and exploited. It is happening and it is something that makes us afraid. But I don't want you to turn away from this broadcast feeling afraid, feeling, you know, just anything except empowered to be a light and a hope and a lifeline for kids who need it, because we're living in a moment right now where families are navigating something previous generations have never faced at this scale. That's one of the reasons why I want grandparents, especially, to listen in, to see what the world is really like. We know how we want it to be, but we have to face the reality of how it is. And we do have early exposure to sexual content. We have increased access through technology and a growing awareness that abuse doesn't always come from strangers. In fact, it's more likely, especially for children, to be someone they know, someone they think they know, someone they think that they can trust. But that trust is often misplaced, and predators know how to abuse that. And they know what kind of circles to go in. And sometimes they do take advantage of Christian people, of Christian communities, especially churches, because they know that people are trusting and will believe the best of them. Now, that's not to say that we got to be skeptical and just fear filled all the time. But we're going to be wise as serpents and harmless as depths. That's where we're going now, research shows. Again I'm going to tell you here, we're going to talk about some tough stuff but we'll do it in a gentle way. But this is the reality, reality that you have to know is one of the things that we're looking at that is changing is not just adults abusing children, but children also abusing children. And that is more common than people realize. With over one third of offenses against minors committed by other minors. At the same time, children today are being exposed to explicit content at ah, younger and younger ages. Many times this is unintentional. This is them watching another video on YouTube being fed something by an algorithm them something embedded in a video. I've talked to so many families who are caught completely unawares. That's why I cannot say enough about co viewing how important it is to watch every moment of what your kids are watching. No longer can you just use the TV as a babysitter you or a screen as a babysitter. You really have to be engaged. And when kids have this exposure, often they don't have the vocabulary to describe what they've seen. They don't know how to feel about it. It makes their body feel a certain way that they feel shame and they don't really understand why. And for Christian families this raises a very difficult but necessary question that I am committed to tackle today. How do we respond with both grace and truth. Because Scripture calls us to protect the vulnerable, to walk in the light and to equip other children, to equip our children not with fear, but with wisdom. God has not given us a spirit of fear, but a power and love and a sound mind. And we know we live in a broken world, but there are people working in this world to be a light in the darkness. And one of those people who I've already met, already had on the show before is Heidi Olson. Now she is featured in Episode 5 of the American Family Association Impact video series. So I encourage you to go watch that. Go listen to our last interview and she has such great important work that brings awareness to a hidden issue impacting families, churches and communities. She is a sexual assault nurse examiner. You may hear that referred, referred to as a sane. And that's what I'm going to say for the, for the rest of the program. That is a sane S a N E. Now that's A frontline expert who cares for children, does forensic interviews, does forensic examinations, and really helps families navigate the trauma with dignity and compassion. And I'm so pleased that she agreed to come back on today so that we could have a conversation. We'll be talking today between two nurses, but really equipping families for prevention, for early detection, for restoration and hope. That is our goalie. Heidi, thank you so much for spending time with us today and having this really important conversation.

Heidi Olson: Oh, thank you so much for having me. It's absolutely an honor. And everything you said was just so beautiful. I need to hear those encouragements too. And so I just, I love that you preface the show that way.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, thank you for that, Heidi. I know you and I talked last time and sometimes, you know, we may wish that God had given us a ministry of, you know, bounce houses or just something really fun and like, you know, that's not like this, this cloud that we around with. But this is the calling that God has given both you and me. And we're going to walk faithfully in it. and the truth is we can't address what we don't understand. And I know there are a lot of families who are just unaware of how often abuse occurs, especially between children. So from your experience as a saying, let's talk about children. I know this is so hard to do, but hang with us please, because this is really important because you as parents, you're looking for those nefarious adults. We're looking for that scary guy in the parking lot with a white van who's going to kidnap our kid. We're not looking for a 12 year old, you know, sibling of a friend of a family friend.

The number of children sexually assaulting other children is skyrocketing

So let's talk about some of those facts and what people need to know about children abusing children.

Heidi Olson: Yeah, I think this in some ways feels like the best kept secrets and I don't know why we do not address it more often. I think there's probably multiple layers of shame and stigma and confusion and it's complicated when a child, sexually assaults another child. but it's extremely prevalent and I would guess you have listeners that have experienced this with their own kids or in their own families or at the hands of a sibling as a child. I've talked to so many different people and survivors who their first experience of childhood sexual abuse was at, ah, the hands of another child or a teenager. And so the way this sort of came onto my radar is when I was a brand new forensic nurse, I was doing an examination on a five year old and she had been sexually assaulted by her 12 year old brother. And you know, the parents were talking about the role that pornography was playing with this 12 year old. But I started to see this trend constantly. But the perpetrators ages I'm writing down in my exams are not a 30 year old, a 40 year old, a 60 year old. I'm writing down 11, 12, 13, just over and over. And my brain just, it goes to why, why, why, why, why are we seeing these trends? And so when we started to parse out the data at our hospital, what I found was that actually when you look at all the different age ranges, the biggest age range of perpetrators we had year after year were actually 11 to 15 year old males. And that blew my mind. I think everyone, we did not realize the extent, right. I even remember our medical director at the time saying like, I didn't know it was this bad. When you look at it right in these terms of like on paper in front of us, I remember one year, it was 2017, we had just seen an extraordinarily high number of victims that year. And almost half of our perpetrators were under the age of 18 that year. And so when I've talked to other forensic programs, you know, same nurses across the country and even really around the globe, everyone is saying we're seeing the same thing. It's just skyrocketing the amount of kids who are sexually abusing other kids. So this is not normal sexual curiosity we're talking about. This is sexual harm and trauma that one child is inflicting on another one. And a huge piece of it, I'd say pretty much every time it can be traced back to a child has their own trauma history in some way, shape or form, or they're looking at pornography. And oftentimes it's both, unfortunately, that is causing this learned behavior because it's not normal for a child to sexually violate another child.

Dr. Jessica Peck: I'm really glad that you, you did mention natural curiosity though, because developmentally it's normal for kids to be curious about their bodies, to be curious about other people's bodies and how they're different, and to see the biological differences between male and female. And, and I'm glad that you clarified that because that often I see patients in my practice in PR care, I'm not doing the forensic exams like you do, but I'm that front line where parents are coming in saying, oh my gosh, you know, this is what's happening. Is this normal? Now that's really important. And again, I'll put out a call for this because I've had. I did a show on this in January where I talked about the importance of having a good relationship with your primary care provider. Because this is someone you're literally trusting with your life, and that's someone that you can go to who has expertise in child development and help you differentiate. Like, okay, is this on the spectrum towards, like, normal development, curiosity, just the ways that kids grow and learn, or is this harmful? And like you said, Heidi, the differentiating factor is almost always pornography, which in most states is actually classified as abuse. Showing a child pornography is. Is abusive, and it is traumatic for kids to see that. And I think, you know, that this. This news that we're giving, I think it is likely horrified some people as we've talked about.

What are some practical ways that this knowledge can translate to action for protection?

And so let's move to action and talk about what do we do about it. Instead of just being frozen in fear or interrogating every child who comes into our house or feeling like, you know, we have to have cameras everywhere. We. We need to go back and live on the prairie. Like, we need to build a shelter, like, go under a rock, all of these things. Live in isolation. What are some good practical ways that this knowledge can translate to action for protection?

Heidi Olson: Yeah, well, first I want to say I think that reaction is normal. I've even had that where I'm like, I just want to live on an island with no wi fi and just like, get away from all the chaos at times, because it can feel so overwhelming. But, like, you're saying there is hope. And the good news is we have tools to be able to protect kids so we don't have to see everyone and every child and every, you know, thing online as a threat. But we do have to be aware. Like, you're saying we want to be wise. And so I think one of the best things that we can do to protect our kids is to have conversations with them really early about bodies, about what body parts are called, their correct anatomical names. I'll give you an example. We had a little girl come in, and no one had taught her the correct name for her genitals, so she called it a cookie. So when she's trying to disclose someone touched her cookie. Right. A lot of people are taking, you know, like, at daycare is like, oh, the actual thing, you know, that you eat the food. They're not realizing she's talking about being sexually abused because she can't convey what has happened because no one's taught her the correct word. And so there was a lack of protection Just not in knowing even what her body parts are called to make a disclosure. She's trying to. Right. But no one's understanding. I think the other piece of it is to create safety so the kids know if something's happening that makes me uncomfortable, that I don't feel okay about that. I have a question about, I can talk to mom and dad and there's not going to be shame. No one's going to freak out. I have safety. I'm going to be protected. And so I would say, I think for a lot of people I know my age, right, that grew up, ah, sort of in the millennial world of, this very intense purity culture of the 90s where it was like, all sex, shame, do not talk about it. That's it. I never got education on sexual abuse. What it looks like, what to call it, that created a vulnerability in myself, right? To not say, hey, there are God created sex. And in this context, it's awesome. Right over here it's not. And so here's what you do when something doesn't feel okay or you have a gut feeling. I did not get that. And I think that really created vulnerabilities in my own life. And so I think for kids, being able to give them the language, tell them what's okay, what's not, what's healthy, what's not, and what to do if you see something online, if someone touches you in a way that makes you uncomfortable, you know, and again, developmentally appropriate. So it's going to look different with a toddler versus a teenager. But you're still helping to guide them, to understand what's a healthy sexual boundary and what's not.

Dr. Jessica Peck : I think talking about body parts with kids is important

Dr. Jessica Peck: Heidi, this is all really great advice, and I do want to revisit the helping kids understand the right names for their body parts. That is really important. That's a question that I get a lot. But you get. You did a great job explaining why it's important and giving them language. And then you imagine that, you know, this goes forward to a criminal case, and then that can be really complicated and difficult. And you can tell them, you know, like, this is not to be talked about in public. This is not shameful, but it's special. This is not, you know, secret, but it is sacred. And these are the way, you know, the appropriate boundaries to have. This is you start talking about modesty and, and how we cover up our body parts and those kinds of things. I do think that that is really important. When we come back, we'll talk more about body safety, conversations honoring that gut feeling and also talking to kids about this in a developmentally appropriate way that doesn't over expose them, that doesn't traumatize them, but that prepares them and continually signals that, hey, I'm an open door. You can always talk to me about anything. You can always come to me about anything. Even if you don't understand it, even if you think, you think you're going to be in trouble, you can come to me. I'm a safe place to come to when something confuses you. We'll also talk more about the impact that pornography is playing in all of this. We'll be right back for this really important conversation. I hope you'll join us. We'll see you on the other side of this break.

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Jesus Is My Healer by Jessie Harris fea. Gateway Worship: Jesus is my healer. He's everything I need. He alone has triumphed over sickness and disease fear. Where is your power? The cross is your defeat. Jesus is my healer. He has won the victory

Dr. Jessica Peck: welcome back friends. That is Jesus is my Healer by Jessie Harris featuring Gateway Worship and that is true no matter what you have been through, what trauma, what trial, what tragedy, Jesus is the ultimate healer and he can heal the hard things that happen. We don't understand why this world is broken. But we do know that in some way, somehow that we can't understand or see yet, that God will make all things right. And in the meantime, God has placed people on earth here to help us through these hard things. And we're talking today to one of those such people. We're talking to Heidi Olson. She is a pediatric nurse, a sexual assault nurse examiner. We are talking about a tough topic today. But today's the last day of April. It is Child Abuse Prevention Month and I feel very, very strongly about this. And so we will speak into this. We will speak in a very gentle way, in a way that we call trauma informed, meaning that we don't have to unnecessarily traumatize you to teach you about things that are traumatizing. But I also feel convicted that as Christians we need to speak up in this space because it is happening and there is so much shame involved with abuse. As Heidi shared earlier, one of the fallouts, there were some good things about purity culture, but there were some bad things too. And one of the things that it did not account for was people who experienced abuse feeling like they were ruined, that their life was over in some way. And we do see children in church context who are abused because predators can come in and take advantage of that. We also see, as we talked about, we see massively m increasing exposure to pornography that is streaming online. And as parents, you know, we, we put up all the safeguards and there are definitely safeguards that you can put up in your home. Do not allow any streaming devices in any bedroom, period. If I could just tell you that, I am convinced that that is a very powerful prevention method because kids will stream things in the privacy and the quietness and the darkness and the aloneness of their own bedroom that they would not stream in, ah, a public place in the house. You know, somebody else might see it. So practice tech transparency where you just don't have any private streaming of things in private places. Especially for kids, that's really important to do, but it's also important to have conversation because most kids who see pornography for the first time were not seeking it out. But it is very powerful in the way that it impacts the brain, it impacts their brain. It makes chemicals in their brain that feel good for a moment, makes their body feel a certain way, and they don't understand that they are not developmentally ready to understand that. So they may go try it again, just out of curiosity, just to see, like, what is this exactly? And I don't. And they don't have vocabulary to talk to you about it. So that is really important to do. So. Heidi, let's go back to talking about, prevention in the home and pick up where we left off. Because it's not about paranoia. This is about preparation. It's about being clear eyed and opening the lines of communication and recognizing that families are often the first line of defense. Although we, we recognize the reality that sometimes abuse does occur in families, but many harmful behaviors occur in very familiar environments in homes and Schools and churches. And so let's continue to talk about communication. Let's start, Heidi, with talking about it in a way that is developmentally appropriate, that doesn't unnecessarily, expose them to things that they're not ready to handle. That's probably one of the most common questions I get. What advice do you have on that?

Heidi Olson: Yeah, that's such a great question. you know, I think that the really important thing to just think about is to take the pressure off yourself in the sense that you don't have to do it perfectly. I think for a lot of parents, it's like, I don't want to mess it up. And it's like, it's okay. It's a learning curve for all of us figuring out how to have these conversations that maybe no one ever had with us. and you're doing an, incredibly brave and good thing for your kids. And so some of the pointers that I tell parents is I would just have touch points that are very short. Right. So you don't want to be this two hour lecture that you have one time and then you never have again. That's not an effective way to get information into kids. We all know that bears get a zone out after seconds. So it's just short little touch points here and there, but frequently. And think about doing it in settings that feel low pressure, like going for a walk and just, hey, remember when we talked about this thing, I'm just checking in, you know, how are you feeling about it? Or driving somewhere? I'd say, especially with teenagers, when they don't want to make eye contact. Right. Driving is such a great way. I will say so. I have a good friend, and, her daughter was 12 at the time, and we were having a conversation about pornography. And it just was, you know, we were talking about my job and different things like that. And her mom was very open, you know, to talking about this. And, we just. In the car, it was perfect. Kind of brought up some scenarios, you know, when eventually you date. What would you do if your boyfriend says he's looking at pornography? Have you ever thought about that? You know, kind of walk me through some of these things. And it felt like in that setting she could be a little more vulnerable because she's not having to, you know, kind of stare at us in dialogue. And it was like five, 10 minutes, and then we moved on. It didn't have to be this big pressure filled thing. And if you don't know the answer to something, it's okay to say that. Right? You know, that's. I've never thought about that. Let me ask. Let me look it up. Let me see. Like, I appreciate you being curious. I've even heard of parents who have. Will basically say when they're having these talks, like, okay, this is a safe zone. Like, in the next five minutes, you can tell me anything. No one's going to freak out. You're not going to get in trouble. So it's kind of creating those safeguards of, you know, have you seen anything online that has felt scary or uncomfortable that you want to talk about right now? you know, with little kiddos, you don't even have to use words like sexual assault or pornography or anything like that. There's ways to describe things that make sense to them where they're not even connecting it to sex because they don't get that concept. So to give you an example, I really like the book. Good pictures, Bad Pictures, if you've never checked it out, it's for little kids. And it basically says, if you see a picture of someone and they're not wearing clothes, where your swimsuit should go, tell mom and dad, right? The words sex naked never even come up in the book. Right? Pornography never comes up. It's just, oh, when I recognize this thing, I know what to do with it. So there's actually quite a few great resources that currently exist, to help parents walk through these things. But I think it's taking the shame out of it being a safe place. And just short little touch points frequently really starts to normalize it.

Dr. Jessica Peck: I've. I remember very vividly one conversation I had my son with my son where he pulled his hoodie tighter and tighter until only his nose was sticking out. And I was just having a conversation with his nose, you know, and he's like, we will never speak of this again. But we did. And, I mean, I've had my kids ask me, okay, I need to ask you something, but can we stand back to back while we talk? I'm like, yes, absolutely. So we stand back to back so they don't have to look at my face, you know, and say these embarrassing things. So I think, you know, parents really need three things. We're going to give them three things right here that, that are helpful, and that first one is clear communication. Another example I can give Heidi that I've given before is, you know, in talking to my kids about pornography and not using that word, I would say, you know, you live in a world that, you're surrounded by screens and one day somebody's going to show you something that's going to make you feel uncomfortable. It might make you feel like you've done something wrong, or it might make you confused or even make your body feel weird. When that happens, come talk to me right away and we'll figure it out together. So I didn't tell them any graphic details, but you know what, Heidi, my daughter came to me when she was in elementary school and said, remember that thing you tell me, like when somebody shows me something weird on a screen? I think that happened today. And it was, it was a pornographic cartoon that was embedded and a, ah, pornographic film that was embedded into a cartoon. And this other little girl's mother had no idea that she was even watching that. So it's so important just that ongoing, like just use environmental cues just to have short conversations that say, like, hey, I'm a safe space you can come to. That's the first thing. The second thing that I think parents need today is how to help your kids have clear body boundaries, to have clear boundaries to what you were talking about earlier. Like honor their gut when something feels off to say no. Because so often today, you know, we like, oh, give aunt, you know, give uncle so and so a kiss. Like no, you have to give him a kiss and don't be rude and don't say no. And oh, I'm sure they would never, you know, that kind of thing.

How do we equip parents to empower their kids to have clear boundaries?

Let's talk about really how honest kids are and how do we equip parents to empower their kids to have clear boundaries?

Heidi Olson: Yeah, you know, I think I would just to add to that, I love how you brought up how honest kids are. They have such a good. Most kids, I would say, who have not been groomed, who are not growing up with a lot of abuse, they have that gut check. And I think sometimes we dismiss it because we're not paying attention to the subtleties. And so I will say what we know in research is that kids almost never lie about being sexually abused. It's extremely rare. And often when it happens, especially with little kids, it's because there's coercion from an adult. You know, it's basically like, tell this person this thing. It's never something they're making up just out of the blue in their head. And so I think when it's. First of all, when a child discloses, we have to take it so seriously. But before it even gets to that point. Right. Of a disclosure, it's exactly like you're saying just the little things. I don't want to hug this person. I don't want to go over there. I don't want to do that. We need to honor the boundaries that they are setting because they may be telling us something very important. But I think also to your point, it is having those conversations about, like you said, what is sacred, right? What is allowed, what is not, how do you say no? And empowering them. And I think again for a lot of us, we may have never had those conversations. No one taught us how to do that. And so it's having to learn, I think for ourselves and then teach our kids. How do you teach them to say no and that we all respect that.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Yeah. I mean just having them practice saying things like no, stop, I don't want that. You know, that is really important. Another thing I equip my kids for, Heidi, is I really taught them. I drilled it into their head. I said, if anybody ever asks you can you keep a secret? Your automatic answer better be no, I cannot. I have already committed to tell my mother everything. Now of course, you know, as they become adults that they're not obligated to tell me everything is adults. But it really was such a, it was, it actually I'll tell you a little story because we, when I, one of my children was in a life group, there was another child that, that disclosed something that really was, an indication of abuse. And when I picked up, you know, that my child and another child, you know, my child started talking to me about it right away. And the other child said, hey, wait, no, that's supposed to stay in life group. We're not supposed to talk about that, but sometimes we need to. And I would give a shout out here to to all of the ministry leaders to really have clear boundaries around disclosure because some kids are not equipped to handle and kids should not be expected to handle disclosures of abuse like that. And so just coming to me and saying, no, I can't keep a secret. It also is going to give them some protection from predators because predators are looking for a target that is more easily, you know, compliant, that is going to, that is easier to groom. And as horrible as that is to really think about. And so when they have that resistance that no, I'm going to tell, that is generally going to be a protective factor. Is that what you have seen in your experience, Heidi?

Heidi Olson: Yes, absolutely, 100%. If you think about for predators, their ideal victim. Right. So of course it's never a victim's fault. I am not putting any blame on someone who's experienced abuse. They did not choose for that to happen. But predators do look for certain personality traits or vulnerabilities in kids. So they are looking for kids who are complicit, who won't say anything, who are desperate. They're looking for kids who are so desperate for attention or whose emotional needs are not getting met because they know if I meet those needs and it feels so good to this kid, I can manipulate that, oh, I'll still keep giving you attention, but you can't tell anyone. And so I'd say another huge protective factor is we have to make sure we're meeting our kids emotional needs because that creates protection for them. If they're looking for that elsewhere, they may be met by predators. Like, oh, yep, that's the kid I hone in, on the one who's following everyone around with, like, the puppy dog eyes because they don't feel like anyone loves them or sees them. And so, yeah, I mean, I absolutely agree with everything you're saying.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, that's a great word of advice for parents. So we've talked about clear communication. We've talked about clear boundaries. The third thing that I think that kids need is they need us as their parents to clearly identify safe adults that they can go talk to to say that, you know, you can always come and talk to me about anything. Now sometimes what I see, Heidi, is that some kids, they're really afraid to tell their parents things because they're afraid they're going to get trouble. They're afraid they're going to disappoint people. And in this day and age, it's so easy to kind of circle the wagons and say, like, you know, okay, don't air our dirty laundry. Like, we. I don't want any of, my kids talking about anything to anybody else. But I think we need to intentionally curate people in their lives who are safe people to go to that might be a grandparent, it might be, you know, somebody at their church, it might be a neighbor that you're really close to. But kids, primarily, what the God's design is that they would have their parents to go to. But bottom line, they need a safe adult. Real.

Heidi Olson: Absolutely, 100%. And if you look at research around kids that have been experienced trauma or adverse childhood experiences, I know you're well versed in this. One of the biggest protective factors is having at least one safe adult in your world. So, yes, ideally, you want it to be your parents, but we all know Sometimes that's not the reality, or there's this shame or it feels weird or whatever. You know, it's just like, that's not something I can tell my mom. If there can be other people in the world exactly like you're saying, another family member, a safe adult, what a difference that makes. And so I absolutely think this is why community is so important, because kids

Dr. Jessica Peck: need that m. It is so true. And sometimes I've seen kids who are in a divorce situation and it may be really hard to talk about something that's happening at the other parents house because you know that you might think that might trigger hurt in the parent or just all kinds of things that kids aren't developmentally ready to think through. I also want to tell you that previously on the show. I interviewed a pastor named Brian Haynes. He wrote a book called War in the Wilderness where he shared his own family's journey of another ministry leader abusing one of his children. And he and his daughter, he and his wife and his three daughters have been very transparent about sharing the impact of that journey and what they learned. So you, if, if that is you, I would encourage you to pick up a copy of that book, War in the Wilderness, and find some resources that are there for hope and healing. We have a lot more important stuff to talk about. Listen, we're 2/3 of the way through. Join me and Heidi as we continue to empower you to protect your kids. We'll see you on the other side of this break.

Discover the story of the culture warrior Don Wildmon

During the Christmas season of 1976, I sat down one night to watch television.

 : One man saw the battle coming. If we lose this cultural war, we're going to have a hedonistic, humanistic society. And he chose to stand and fight. If you will not respect our beliefs, then you will respect our money and we're spending with somebody else. Reverend Wildmon. Reverend Wildmon. The Reverend Donald Wildmon.

 : Discover the story of the culture warrior Don Wildmon and how with Hollywood playboy, the homosexual agenda, and the Disney empire, things were changing and many people just sort of acclimated to it. And Don Wildmon didn't. They thought, I think, that they could just crush him.

 : The movement Don started paved the way for Christians to boldly stand for truth and righteousness in a hostile culture. Watch Culture Warrior today for free visit culturewarrior.movie

Mighty to Save by Michael W. Smith: Everyone needs compassion Love that's never failing Let mercy fall on me Everyone needs forgiveness the kindness of the savior the hope of the nation yeah everyone Savior he can move the mountains Our God is mighty to save he is Mighty to save forever. Author of Salvation He rose and Conquered the grave. Jesus conquered the grave.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Welcome back, friends. That is Mighty to Save by Michael W. Smith. And we're having a really important conversation today. We are talking on this last day of April about Child Abuse Prevention Month to give a listener advisory. We're talking about a really tough topic. We're doing it in a gentle way, in a way that we call trauma informed. We are talking about it carefully, but we are addressing it head on because there are children in the world who need our protection. There are children in the world who need our intervention because child abuse is increasing. We are seeing that since COVID that trend has been worrisome. And I'm talking today to Heidi Olson. She is also a fellow pediatric nurse. She's also a sexual assault nurse examiner and has helped countless children through the unspeakable trauma of abuse. So today, we really don't want to scare you. We don't want you to feel afraid. We don't want you to feel like you just want to head for the hills. We want you to feel like you are ready to run home and protect your family. And to really do that with confidence that God has equipped you for every good work and that, And that God will equip you for such a time as this, even this time that we live in. Heidi, you and I were just talking during the break, and we were talking about the really tough reality that many children who are abused have parents who also were abused. And when you look at the statistics on the numbers of kids who were abused, that's not surprising. But let's take a minute. I want you to address the parents maybe, who have not addressed their own trauma, and let's encourage them to do that.

Heidi Olson: Yeah. So I know this is heavy, and it is totally possible that the second some of you heard this, you're like, nope, no, like, right. I don't need to go there. Why would. I felt my children? And I get that. Right? This is a protective part that can come up and just feel like it's too overwhelming to go there. I am a sexual assault survivor, so I can say firsthand, I fully understand times, but I also will say addressing it creates protection for kids because our trauma, we see the world through our trauma lens. And so when it hasn't been healed, we may not be able to handle disclosures or conversations without it triggering us. Right. We might avoid things or overreact to things because we're seeing it through our own lens of being harm, and that can be harmful. For our children. I'll also say, I think for a lot of people who've experienced sexual abuse, there can sometimes be this lack of listening to your gut because you were taught not to. So then when your child is saying, this is freaking me out, or I don't like this, right, it's like we can be dismissive of it because it's like, well, I'm not sensing that because I have not worked through what happened to me. And so it really does create vulnerabilities for kids when we don't dress our own trauma. And it's such a big deal for us too, on multiple reasons, for multiple reasons. It creates healthier families, more protection for kids. It stops that generational trauma. We break the cycle right where this is not going to happen anymore. Because there's been healing and there's been change and there's been redemption. And the Lord wants that for us. He wants us to live out of a place of wholeness and integration. And it's very hard to do that when we haven't addressed something so huge as sexual violation. So I know it's scary, I know it's overwhelming, but it honestly can be one of the bravest and healthiest things that we can do.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Some places that people could reach out to would be starting with your primary care provider and talking about what that looks like for a healing journey. It may be your church, if they have a counseling ministry, you could go to the American association of Christian Counselors. Focus on the Family also has a counseling connection resource. there are a lot of resources that you could have there. And I think, you know, parents, I feel like we are getting more resources to help our families. Heidi. I mean, there's more than, than certainly I saw a decade ago, two decades ago. But we still don't have enough. And one of the challenging things is this, is the rise of online forms for abuse. And, you and I had talked about these stories that were released by the national center on Sexual Exploitation. It's called Inkosi. And I want to share that with our listeners. And then we can talk about how to protect kids from this. This is a story that in Cosi shared, on. On their website. Recently, my teenage daughter welcomed a new boy who moved into the neighborhood and goes to our church. She invited him to sit with her friends at lunch and started making friendly conversation after about a week. They were regularly texting each other. But then he started saying things that concerned her. Highly sexualized comments about girls bodies, including hers, jokes about his own sisters and frequent References to violent acts. My daughter saw these as red flags for pornography consumption. So she asked him if he used pornography. He admitted that he did, and then began talking about his struggles with depression and self harm. After speaking with this boy's mother, I learned that there was even more to the story. In the third grade, this boy was molested by a fellow student. At the age of 12, he began using pornography. Likely fueled by what he was learning in pornography and the wounds of his own victimization. He went on to abuse one of his little own little sisters. He also sexually harassed girls at his school, leading to involvement from law enforcement. His devastated mother has been struggling to help him for years, but she feels that no system has been able to support him in his healing. There is only punishment or nothing. And really, you know, Heidi, this heartbreaking story just talks about that interconnectedness between pornography and even child on child harmful behavior that we talked about. But there's so many points in here that, that there were some things in here that went well. I mean, this is a boy that you meet at church, so you expect like, oh, this is a, you know, a church friend. So you automatically have these kinds of expectations. But recognize that humans are humans and sin is sin and trauma is trauma, and, you know, it can happen anywhere. But I'm really grateful in this story that this girl was empowered to recognize signs of pornography consumption and to go to her mother, and that mother then went to the other mother and probably was able. I'm. I'm guessing there was going to be some appropriate boundaries there. What can we learn from stories like this, Heidi? And helping to empower our kids, even though they may have. Have some traumatic exposures, having that early intervention and putting a cycle of help instead of a cycle of harm into action.

Heidi Olson: Yeah. At first, I want to say this story is not an outlier. I have heard hundreds and hundreds of stories like this over the last decade, which is so gut wrenching. But again, I think it's why it's so important that we're having these conversations. Because I think sometimes families feel like they can't say the truth of, hey, here's what my kid's struggling with. We need help, because there's so much shame and stigma, like, who's going to want to be around my kid if I tell, you know, people he's struggling with a porn addiction? and so I think us just being honest and vulnerable, you know, is really important because families are struggling in isolation when the reality is a lot of people are struggling and not knowing what to do. But I think that the first place where there was a failure was when this child experiences own sexual abuse. It sounds like there wasn't real healing or processing of that. And so I think that's really important. When kids come forward with a disclosure with signs that something is off, we address it immediately and that kids get, you know, therapy, help, medical, intervention, kind of whatever they're needing in the moment, versus sweeping it under the rug or not addressing everybody like they are not going to remember it or you know, whatever may happen. but I think the next point is there's this online pornography component that we see so often. And I think for a lot of kids we hand them a phone and there's zero parameters or protection. So then just like you were saying, they take it into their room at night and then they're watching hundreds of hours of pornography without anyone knowing. So I'm not surprised he's struggling with anxiety and depression and self harm because this impacts every part of us, including our mental health. so I think there's lots of places for intervention, addressing trauma, having parameters around screen time like you were talking about, and just even having safe community where you can have these conversations and get help versus just I think families feeling super isolated and not knowing what to do. So those are kind of my initial thoughts on it.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, you know, that, that it just makes me want to re emphasize not having phones in rooms. Because something that I have seen happen, Heidi, is that when kids view explicit videos online and I have talked to many, many kids just like you have, who have watched hundreds of hours of pornography without their parents even knowing. And you know, they think they're watching YouTube videos that are harmless or that kind of thing, but then it normalizes that behavior. And so if they have their phone in their room by themselves, they may facetime another kid, another teenager and start acting out some of those things themselves and having that normalized, you know, sexual expression through a screen. And so this is why, you know, you just gotta put up as many guards as you can. It's kind of like, you know, having the backyard in your pool. Like not, not just a fence, but you need a fence, you need a child latch on the door, you need lifeguards, you need layered protection. And that's going to come through what we've given everybody already, Heidi, that clear communication that's developmentally appropriate, clear boundaries that kids feel comfortable and being able to advocate for their own body safety and giving them safe adults to talk to.

Any platform where there is online exposure has the potential for exploitation

I want to talk about one More case before our time runs out. This is another case that was shared by Inkosi that you and I both saw. And let me read this to our listeners and give another scenario. A 12 year old boy was playing Fortnite when the popular game connected him with a complete stranger. The stranger messaged him, offering to send him highly sought after V bucks, the in game currency. But this was no gesture of goodwill. The stranger followed up by sending the child pornographic videos. Unprompted, the 12 year old opened them and over time requested more. The stranger took his opportunity to tighten control, directing the child to send nude pictures of himself in exchange for more V bucks. Now this, this is a terrifying thing, but honestly, the thing that we need to take away from it, I think, Heidi, is that even platforms, you know, we've talked about Roblox on the show before. Any platform where there is online exposure has the potential for exploitation. And so we just need to not assume that just because something is made for kids or marketed for kids, that it is safe. And we really need to be engaged more than ever in having conversations. I'll tell you this really quickly too. not too long ago, I, I was doing an Internet safety talk for a group of 8th graders and I asked them, you know, I asked them how many games. Almost all of them raised their hand. Almost all of them were, this is a group of mostly, boys who were really into video games. And I said, okay, of those of you who play video games, how many of you have encountered something in a video game where someone has said something inappropriate to you, asked you to do something that's inappropriate or, you know, done something that, you know, has told you not to tell your parents? Almost every single one of them said, yeah, that's happened. But none of them had told their parents about it because they were afraid that they would take away the game. And they think, no, I can manage this. I, it's fine. I, I knew what it was, you know, I, I managed it. It's fine. But that's not always the case. So how can we, besides, you know, throwing all the, the video games out and just making them the universal villain?

Heidi Olson: Right?

Dr. Jessica Peck: That's. I know there's some people who are like, hey, I got a pitchfork. I'll ride at dawn. Like, we'll take them down. What can we realistically do to protect our kids and those online environments?

Heidi Olson: Yeah, you know, I think there are a couple of things that I will just say what came to mind as you were sharing that story is it's good to to recognize kids can experience sexual abuse without hands on offenses. Just like you're saying that, right, this kid's being harmed online. No one touched him. But that's absolutely abuse and exploitation. I also have found, and you've probably seen this too, kids that are neurodivergent, like our kids with autism and adhd are super prone to being groomed and harmed online. I've also noted. So just throw those things out there as we're talking about online stuff, I think they get targeted at even higher rates. but yeah, I think there has to be kind of beyond like filters and the different things we've talked about. Just like you're saying there needs to be parental guidance as they're playing these things and doing these things. And I think for a lot of parents it's like I don't have time for that. But the reality is if there isn't someone checking in and watching and seeing what's being said and talking to them, especially when they have strangers have access, right to DM them or play with them or talk to them, there's going to be predatory behaviors. And so I think it's really important that there are safeguards like a physical adults there engaging in these things with them, a safe adult.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, Heidi, I'm so grateful for you. Thank you so much for your time. Thank you for all that you do. My sister also was a, pediatric nurse working in a child advocacy center doing the same work that you're doing. And let me tell you, just pray for those, for those people who are engaging in that work. It is really difficult. But you are such a ray of hope and healing for so many children. So Heidi, I thank you so much for what you've done. For our parents who are listening, for any adult who's listening, if a child ever discloses abuse, then always believe them. Always report it to law enforcement, report it to the appropriate authorities. Given your, whatever your boundaries are, if you are a mandated reporter, if that's child protective services or whatever the state law is in your state, make sure that you take that seriously and that you report it and you seek professional care. Just as Heidi said, it may not have even been a hands on experience, but it can still be equally traumatic and so seek a pathway to counseling. Your primary care provider can do that. The American association of Christian Counselors Focus on the Family would be places to start. And I encourage you to help your child feel safe. Child Abuse Prevention Month. It's not just about awareness, it's about action. And as families of faith. We are called to protect the vulnerable and speak the truth boldly, just like we've done here today, and create homes where light drives out darkness and to hold onto our courage, wisdom and hope. And as we do, I pray the Lord will bless you and keep you and make his face to shine upon you. I'll see you right back here tomorrow. We'd like to thank our sponsors, including PreBorn. PreBorn is rescued over 400,000 babies from abortion and every day their network clinics rescue 200 babies lives. Will you join PreBorn in loving and supporting young moms in crisis? Save a life today. Go to preborn.com/AFR the views and

Jeff Chamblee: opinions expressed in this broadcast may not necessarily reflect those of the American Family association or American Family Radio.

April is Child Abuse Prevention Month. Jessica talks with Heidi Olson, Certified Pediatric Nurse and Certified Pediatric Sexual Assault Nurse Examiner, about protecting our children and how Christian families can respond to abuse with both grace and truth.

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