Dr. Jessica Peck We would like to take a moment to thank our sponsor, PreBorn. When a mother meets her baby on ultrasound and hears their heartbeat, it's a divine connection. And the majority of the time she will choose life. But they can't do it without our help. Preborn needs us, the pro life community, to come alongside them. One ultrasound is just $28. To donate, dial pound250 and say the keyword baby or visit preborn.com/AFR Candace talks
about finding out she was pregnant. Thankfully, an ultrasound provided by PreBorn allowed her to hear her baby's heartbeat. The sonogram sealed the deal for me. My baby was like this tiny little spectrum of hope and I saw his heart beating on the screen and knowing that there's life growing inside. I mean, that sonogram changed my life. I went from just Candace to mom. Thank you to everybody that has given these gifts. You guys are giving more than money. You guys are giving love.
Preborn currently has clinics that do not have ultrasound machines. Would you consider a leadership gift and sponsor a machine Today? These life Saving machines cost $15,000 more than most centers can afford. Your donation will save countless lives for years to come. Dial pound250 and say the keyword baby or go to preborn.com/AFR hello and welcome to the Doctor Nursemama Show Prescribing hope for healthy families here on American Family Radio. Here's your host, professor, pediatric nurse practitioner and mom of four, Dr. Jessica Peck.
Dr. Jessica Peck Hey there friends, and welcome to my favorite time of day getting to spend time with you prescribing hope for healthy families in today's message is for the men out there listening and of course the women in their lives. But we have a message today specifically for men. My guest today was on earlier in the year. We have a continuation of that conversation today and I think about that as we see news reports of men increasingly engaging in the church. I think about that as I talk to my husband and my sons who are going from that teenage stage and emerging into young adulthood about what it means to be a man in this culture and all of the, the, the, the, the plethora of resources that are available for women's Bible studies. But men's groups seem to be harder to come by. I know when my son went away to college and said that he had joined a men's prayer group and a men's life group the first Sunday he was there, I wanted to like write them a check right away, say thank you so much for having a place to go and that's what we're talking about today because I know that men can go to a men's event, they can spend an evening listening to advice about becoming stronger or more successful or more disc and more more respected and still go to bed kind of unsure about what that actually means and have very few places for conversations about that. There's lots of one sided advice, one unidirectional advice that's coming to them. What's harder to find is a place to open scripture with other men, ask honest questions, admit struggles and practice different responses with people who are going to keep showing up as they learn and struggle. This matters for families because what a man is learning about strength is eventually going to show up somewhere and how he handles disappointment and how he responds when someone corrects him and how he treats people who cannot do anything for him and whether the people close to him feel comfortable telling him the truth about their experience in their relationship with him. Now Pastor J. Josh Smith, he joined us previously. It's on January 20th of this year. So I encourage you. If you missed that conversation, go back and check it out. You can catch it in the podcast link. January 20th J. Joss J. Josh Smith we talked about the pressure that many men feel to become everything for everyone. And Josh encouraged us to pay attention to our direction rather than becoming overwhelmed by the distance that we still have to travel. Are we headed in the right direction? We also talked about how the condition of a man's inner life really affects the people around him. So today we're going to build on that conversation by exploring how those convictions become a rhythm of discipleship. Josh's New M the man for the Day Bible Study Book we talked about the man for the Day book previously. Now there is a new Bible study with a video access as well. It gives 10 sessions with the author, of course, J. Josh Smith Teaching Videos Personal Study A Leader Guide and this is I'm really excited about this research resource. So whether you are a young man finding your footing, you're a father who's carrying significant responsibilities, you are a man leading his family in some way wondering how to pursue this discipleship journey. This conversation is for you and for the women who are listening, this is an opportunity to really better understand and encourage the men you love. That includes me. That's why joining me today is Pastor J. Josh Smith. He's senior pastor of, Prince Avenue Baptist Church, author of the Titus 10 and the man for the Day. He spent more than two decades investing in men through local church ministry. He and his wife Andrea, have five children. Josh, I'm so glad to have you back. I have thought about our prior conversation so often, and I'm really excited for the opportunity to continue the conversation.
The Need For Men's Discipleship Resources And The Challenges Men Face In Expressing Themselves
J. Josh Smith Well, thank you, Jessica. I'm really encouraged to be back with you today. I remember our previous conversation and what an encouragement it was to me as well. And your, honestly, your passion for seeing the men in your life thrive, was significant to me, and I feel the same way.
Dr. Jessica Peck So I'm. I am so grateful for that because, you know, I've. I've shared pretty openly here on, on this show that, you know, I come from a lot of generational brokenness, as does my husband. And so looking for models of godly men who have healthy relationships with the Lord, who are walking in discipleship in a healthy, trustworthy way is just something that we, we just haven't had. And so building that, it can feel really overwhelmed. And one of the things that stuck with me so much the last time you talked about men, to focus direction rather than being overwhelmed by how far they still to go. Tell us about how this Bible study came to be as a companion to the book to help continue to encourage men to just start heading in the right direction.
Dr. Jessica Peck Sure.
J. Josh Smith Yeah. Well, a few years ago, I wrote my first book for men was called the Titus 10 Foundations for Godly Manhood. And we ended up doing a Bible study version of that. And what I saw is, you know, men may read a book by themselves. They may. They probably won't, but they might read a book by themselves. but they'll do a Bible study with a group of other guys. And that really is the intention, getting men together in conversation, talking about the things of the Lord. you know, there's. There is. You said it a minute ago, Jessica. There's a lot of talk these days about manhood, not a ton of conversation about biblical manhood and godly manhood. So I just wanted to facilitate that conversation. It's something I'm passionate about, and I've seen really big, not only an influence in my life, but in our church real significantly. And so trying to find a way that I could take this, this latest book, the man for the Day, and facilitate conversation. That's what I want to do. I want to get men talking about the things of the Lord. But, you know, if you get a group of men in a room and ask them to talk about something, it's not like the women. It's not. It may not happen, or it's may not be the things of the Lord. So, you know, I, I do see it this way. I. This Bible study guide exists to facilitate conversation among men who want to grow in their relationship with the Lord.
Dr. Jessica Peck I'm really excited about that. You know, I went to a women's event at my church actually this week, and bless the coordinator's hearts, they had a time wrangling us, to stop talking, because if you give women the opportunity. Yeah, there were just much. We talked about this last time. We're much more attuned to talk about our feelings, our struggles. That's a lot harder for men to do, and there just are a lot fewer resources. We talked about, you know, all the Bible studies, and really that's been kind of the economic engine even for some publishing houses. I'm just going to call it out that way. And even with the men's book, what I pictured, Josh, is, you know, a woman buying this and handing it to her husband if he's going to read it, saying, hey, you should read this. This is how it is. Talk to those men who are thinking, you know what? I could step up. I could lead something like this in my church. What would that look like for them to pick up the resource they have and to just gather a group of men together? Because I think there are some men who think, well, I'm not a, you know, theologian, I'm not a pastor, but there. But if you're walking with the Lord and you're willing to invest in other men, I think there's room here to just call a group of men together and start having a conversation.
J. Josh Smith Yeah, I've gotten a lot of, emails over the last few years from pastors who are wanting to know about how to start men's ministry. But I've gotten, three times as many pastors, I mean, emails from just men in a church that says, wow, my church didn't really have a men's ministry. We don't have anything formal, what should I do? And my answer always the same, don't try to start a men's ministry. Find five guys and invite them to read a book together with you. Like, just start, just do something. And that's what happens. I mean, and so, again, wanting to produce something that will facilitate those conversation. If one guy can get a passion for other men and just invite some men into a group. And, you know, you're right, it is more difficult for men to open up. And what I say about that is, don't force that. That'll happen over time. Don't. Don't don't. Session one. Get everybody to share their darkest secrets. It's not going to happen. but just start having a conversation. And so I, I have found. And we found as we're thinking more about men's ministry, because you're right, Jessica, so much, so many publishers are surviving because of women's Bible studies, but it's starting to turn. Men's Bible studies are really starting to, to pick up some steam. And, I think churches are noticing more and more that they can't ignore men any longer. And so just encouraging men, if, if you have any passion to grow as a man of God or for the men around you, just start something. Get, the Bible study. It's very easy to do. you read, basically, you know, walk through a chapter a week, have some devotions throughout the week, and then all the questions. You don't need to be a gifted facilitator. You just open up the pages and walk through the questions you've answered. So, you know, a lot of men, I think, feel deficient in these areas. They feel deficient in spiritual things and deficient in teaching. But the reason you have Bible study guides is so you don't have to worry about that. You're not, there's a video content, you're not teaching anything. You're helping lead a conversation among men. And anybody can do that.
Dr. Jessica Peck Well, I think I shared with you last time. My husband has a group of men that he meets with. they go out once a week. They rotate who gets to pick the restaurant. And usually telling you, Josh, these are, I'm so happy that he has to go.
Illustrating Men's Discipleship Through Real-Life Examples And The Importance of Preparation
These guys to go out with because they're, they're not places that I would generally pick. They're adventurous and, and, you know, I mean, even one day they were at the Lubies and just discussing their, their Bible study. They were studying Revelation at the time. Can you imagine? Like, I want you to picture this. These five very different guys from different walks of life who are sitting in Louis discussing Revelation. And and. And somebody came over and was said. I'm just really encouraged to see this group of men together, praying over their meal and just having honest conversation. That's really encouraging and be as simple as that. And one of the session topics that you talk about, you have, you have so many great session topics. You talk about preparation. And I think that just goes into what we're talking about. How do you prepare in this season? How do you prepare what the, what the next phase of your life is? Going to look like in your discipleship journey. And you talk about how Elijah's life can teach a man who feels overlooked or impatient for a more significant opportunity. Can you give us a little preview into that and some of the discussion topics that you would have?
J. Josh Smith Yeah. So I, you know, I walk through the life of Elijah in this book. He's a great. He's a great, kind of model for manhood in a lot of ways. But Elijah's life is interesting in that he came out of nowhere with this huge moment, face to face with King Ahab, with a prophetic word. And you just think that from that moment on, his life's going to explode and do great things. Well, the next story tells us that for three years, God had put him in hiding, in obscurity. But what he didn't realize because he didn't see the big picture like the Lord did, everything God was doing in his life was preparing him for what's next. And so I think all of us, I mean, we're speaking about men. So I know in my life, we have a tendency to kind, of think little of everyday situations in our life or even big situations in our life, when the reality is God is committed to making us into the person he wants us to be. And every situation in our lives is God's preparation for becoming that person. So we look at a situation that might be frustrating to us and look at it as a hindrance. This is keeping me from being the person I want to be. But if we trust in the providence of God, then we can't look at it that way. Every situation in our life, every big event, every small event, every discouragement, every defeat, every victory, every moment. M Is God's preparation helping me be the person God wants me to be. So what I try to challenge men with is to embrace life that way is to look at every single issue in our life, whether it be a conflict in a relationship or difficulty at work. That's preparation. God is molding you. He's making you into something great. And so look at those opportunities as, as chances to be able to. To walk with God and press in further in our relationship with God. God is preparing us for something. And every part of our life is that way. So it's just kind of me challenging men to think of life as God's preparation.
Dr. Jessica Peck I think that's easier said than done. And it goes back to what you were talking about earlier. Not being discouraged, by the distance of you have to go. And I think sometimes that you just need to head in the right direction and just start to prepare. And it's in that every day over time. But, you know, men are humans in society just like women are, and none of us are. Are exempt from the desire for instant gratification. We live in a society where we just want everything to be instant. And I think that can be really hard, especially for men who are wired generally to. To, fix things. Like, they just want to fix things. How do you help men prepare for seasons of struggle where, you know, some character formation is going to take. It's, going to take a season to walk through. It's not going to be fixed instantly.
J. Josh Smith Well, I, you know, a lot of this, everybody writes out of their own circumstances and situations. So I start this book, with a story of how, in 2013, my wife, we had four children at the time, from 10 to one, was diagnosed with stage four cancer. Yeah.
Dr. Jessica Peck Gosh. Oh, no, I've not been there, Josh.
J. Josh Smith Yeah, it was a. Just a. She's by God's grace, she's okay. But we did 600 hours of chemo and 26 rounds of radiation and major, surgery. All of these things. But I talk about how through this book, I kind of start the book and end the book a little bit with that story and how realizing that in all of that, there was so much goodness from God because God was showing us that he was preparing us for something that's coming. And I mean, honestly, I think we would have chosen not to have that. Obviously would have chosen not to have that situation. But, man, looking back on that now, we're like 13 years away from that. I mean, my life has dramatically changed as a result of that, and that's God preparing me. But it's the small things, too. You know, I, I talk often about guys, you know, we get frustrated in traffic and frustrated when something doesn't work. Well, every. Every one of those moments are God just building character in us. So just trying to find a way to see God in everything and say, lord, I just, I'm so.
Dr. Jessica Peck I have more questions about that. I'm m gonna hold you right there because we're already our first break, but I have more questions about that. We'll be right back with more from Pastor J. Josh Smith and the man for the day, the book and the Bible study. Don't want to miss it. We'll be right back. On the other side of this break, Hello, I'm Jessica peck, host of Dr. Nursemama. did you know that this content is listener supported. Without people like you, this podcast would not exist. And that's why we need you. A generous monthly gift of any amount will help sustain American Family Radio and specifically this podcast. Please consider becoming a monthly financial partner today by visiting afr.net/give that's afr.net/give
God Story by Anne Wilson I've gone where the hopeless go the dead end of a broken road and I've learned there's a place so low you can't see a way out been stuck in a ditch so deep See thought it might be the end of me But I'm still here and there could only be one way how my life is a God story Got to tell the world what he's done for me Miracles or miracles that only he could do I'm proof that we're all only one prayer away from a testimony.
Dr. Jessica Peck Welcome back friends. That is God Story by Anne Wilson. And that's what we're talking about today, the God story in the lives of men. I'm talking to J. Josh Smith about his book the man for the Day Answering the Call to godly Manhood. He and I had a previous conversation about his book on January 20th. You can go back and catch it on the podcast. And today we're talking about the, the Bible study that has been released with this. It's a video based Bible study with a book and really just calling men into biblical manhood. And, and Josh, during the break you and I were chatting a little bit and talking about there's a real difference in the competing cultural messages here on what does it mean to be a man. And you know, I, I shared with you, I have I struggle with this. I mean I am a woman raising sons. Of course I have, my husband is an influence in their lives. But it really scares me a little bit and I don't use that lightly. But the competing messages that they have, what is toxic masculinity? What is feminization? You know, we talk about feminization of the church and there's all of there's no shortage of voices in this space, both secular and faith based. And we see the rise in interest and influencer created conversation and that has its time and place. I mean people are listening right now to us having a radio show podcast and I hope that they find encouragement from that. But we need to be discerning about those voices because not every voice voice talking about authentic manhood, it's talking about biblical manhood. And some of the voices that would appear to be talking about that Maybe are not true to God's word either. What advice do you give to men in discerning the voices out there that are wildly debating the concept of a, biblical manhood?
J. Josh Smith Yeah, we're in an interesting cultural moment. I mean, I think there was years and years where no one was talking about manhood.
Really.
J. Josh Smith This just wasn't a conversation. And I think you're right, particularly within the church, there was so much emphasis put on women's ministry that just over the last five or six years actually there's been so much more conversation about men. Well, in, in the midst of that, there's also a lot of conversations again about manhood that aren't from a biblical perspective. and so I, I think the key, and I wrote about this a lot in my first book, the Titus 10, which really was the foundations for, for biblical manhood, is making sure that we're formed by Scripture. you know, I talk in my first book about this idea of dominion. What does it mean for a man to walk in dominion and seeing that as not manly bravado? It's not authority. Dominion is self sacrificial service for the sake of others. So making sure that we're thinking rightly and correctly and make sure we're defining manhood through the terms of scripture. Looking at like in this book we're talking about today, I look at the life of Elijah. you cannot read the life of Elijah and not think that that's a man's man. I mean that was a manly guy, the stuff that he did. But man, when you look about his submission to Christ and to the Lord, when you look at the way in which he, was prepared for the Lord, just his obedience, man, it gives a picture of manhood that may not be the manly bravado of today. A man is not a man because he does manly things. He's a man because he has manly character. And that character is what God really clearly defines for us in Scripture. But, but we've got to be discerning and think about it from characters m like Elijah.
Dr. Jessica Peck Well, one of the characteristics that you know, I know is, is often debated is anger. And anger has its own session in, in this study. It's a chapter. And I think that can be a good emotion that we look at, you know, because women and men are generally going to express anger, you know, very differently.
Exploring Anger And Repentance In Biblical Manhood And The Importance of Vulnerability
And when you think about being rightly indignant, you know, just really having a godly outrage over some things, it can be received very differently than you project it into your Family's life. What, what did you say about anger in this book? How can, how can men look at, at an emotion like anger and the lens of what does it mean in biblical manhood? Like still having anger and recognizing that is, I mean, even Jesus was angry. Right? We hear a lot of talking about, flipping tables in the temple, but also taking responsibility for expressing that in a godly way. I, I know I just asked you basically to serve world, you know, to give world peace. I'll have your Nobel waiting at the end of this, but where do you start to delve into that?
J. Josh Smith Well, I've written a good bit and I've never spent more time articulating a chapter than this chapter on anger. I was a little scared to write it. But you have these situations like in First Kings 18, when Elijah, slaughters 450 prophets of Baal, which is an amazing moment. And you see in Elijah this sense of righteous indignation. But at the same time, I don't know of anything that destroys more families than angry, angry men. I mean, unrighteous anger does not produce the righteousness of God. That's what the scripture says, clearly. But there's a lot of families destroyed by angry men. And so, boy, I was, I was frightened, to write a chapter on anger, but I thought it needed to be addressed as I'm walking through and Elijah and I think one of the things that I've noticed, we have a generation of men who are unbothered by ungodliness. They can watch ungodly things and not be bothered. They can talk about ungodly things and not be, but they're just not bothered. They'll look at, the way women are treated or injustice or crime or anything like that, and they're just not bothered. They're like numb to the things of the Lord. And that is not a godly characteristic. And so the way I defined anger is this being deeply bothered by what bothers God and responding in a godly way, being deeply bothered by what bothers God and responding in a godly way. And so we respond in a way that God would respond. So that keeps us from the unrighteous anger. And then, you know, this is interesting. You can find a lot of men that'll rant on a lot of things. On a lot of things. You don't say, oh, you don't say. So I want, I, I think my desire is to see men who are bothered by what bothers God. So sometimes men are really angry about things and they're not things that, that bother God, they're just things that bother them. so you know, Exodus 34, 6 is very clear. Go slow to anger. I, I read through the entire Old Testament when I was thinking about this chapter. I think, you know, there's this idea that the Old Testament God of the Old Testament is angry. There are very rare instances of God being angry. God is much more slow to anger than he is angry. God is very careful with his anger. Yes, Jesus got angry and we see that a, couple of times, but not much. And he's only angry about things that make, make God angry. So in this generation of men who are just, are bothered by stuff and they're ranting about stuff and talking about manhood and all those kind of things, what I want to say is, hey, listen, is what bothering you? Something that bothers God and are you responding in a godly way? So that's why I wrote the chapter. I thought anger is a conversation we need to have.
Dr. Jessica Peck It is a conversation we need to have because, I mean, you said it, Josh. Families can be destroyed by ungodly anger. And sometimes that's just something that you bring into your family because it's the way that you were raised. Sometimes it's unresolved trauma that you might have experienced, you know, unresolved emotions. If you don't have healthy emotion processing, sometimes it can come out as anger. And I think sometimes men, they don't see even, it's hard for them sometimes to even label that emotion as angry because maybe other people experience it as angry, but they don't feel like it's angry. And you talk about, in the, in the book, there's a difference between regretting an outburst and practicing repentance and what that change might look like for family members. Can you talk a little bit about that?
J. Josh Smith That, yeah. So I wrote an entire chapter in the book on repentance. And I think it's because, some of the most powerful moments in my life, in which is which I've seen men genuinely repent of wrong, that you can, if a father will acknowledge his wrong to his children and his family in a way in which he genuinely repents, that right there, that one act can be a life transforming act. It's a picture of the gospel that almost nothing else pictures. And it's rare, I think among all people, but I think specifically among men, who often are slow to be sorry and slow to repent. And so I talk about the process of repentance and what it means to turn from Sin and to acknowledge that to those that you've hurt, and not just to be sorry about it, but to feel grieved over it, and then after feeling grieved, to then move. Move in the right direction. Sometimes we think repentance is just feeling bad about something that's. That's a part of repentance. Genuine sorrow is a part of repentance, but restoration is also a part of repentance. And. And, responding and moving in a godly way is also part of repentance. So this. This goes back to Jessica, what we're just talking about. We have this idea of what manhood is. Well, manhood is repentance. Manhood is godly, genuine, repentant. Nobody's talking about that. Like, no one's out there saying, real men repent. People are saying, real men do this, and real men watch this, and real men feel this way, and they do that. Those, are activities. Those are not aspects of character. Character makes a real man. And so if you want to talk about a picture of a godly man, it's a man who will acknowledge when he's wrong and will genuinely repent, in front of others. So that's the kind of manhood we want to. We want to give a picture of. And the Bible is clear. It's just. We've got to take the time to see what the Bible says about manhood, not just respond to. To, again, manly bravado, which, I get really tired of, but actual godly manhood.
Dr. Jessica Peck Well, you've given us a good differentiator in that anger thinking. If you're angry, are you angry about the things that anger God? That's a really good baseline gut check to think, okay, am I right? And having this anger, and if it's an overflow of emotion or something else, like you said, just the soapbox or what. Whatever else you might be angry about, that might be a good differentiator there. Josh, I'm wondering if you can just take us into the world of what it's like to be a man, trying to navigate all of those things and explain that to the women and their ecosystem, because, you know, God made men and women very differently, and we see things very differently. What is it like trying to navigate the pressures of these competing cultural messages of just all of these different things, like trying to tell you what it. What you need to do to be a man, and then what you're not being a man, and then, you know, having the women in your life, like, speak to what they want to be. And just what is it like to feel that kind of pressure? And what can, what can women in the. Like me, you know, what can I do to encourage my husband and my. And my sons and, and the men in my life to aspire them towards biblical manhood without feeling like I'm nagging them or preaching at them or, you know, just perpetually disappointed?
J. Josh Smith Yeah, no, that's a, that's a really good question. And I would start by saying this. You don't, don't feel sorry for men. We, I mean, we all have it hard, right? Like every. Everybody's life is hard. And there's tons of things about my wife's life and I'm, You know, the things that she does every day that are hard as well. But, you know, I would say this. I was raised in a good home with godly parents who walked with and in a good church. And I was starting about 11th grade, I was discipled and learned how to walk with God. But no one ever talked to me about godly manhood. Like, what does it mean to be a godly man? That's why I wrote my first book, the Titus 10, because no one was having those conversations. I mean, my dad taught me how to get a firm handshake, stand up when someone approaches me, and polish my shoes, and those kind of things, like manly things. But no one said, here's godly manhood. So here's what I would say. I think the vast majority of men have no idea what this looks like. And they've been attracted again to some ideas of manhood that aren't actually biblical, that are more external practices than, than really internal character. And so I would say this. Most men just don't have a clue. Blue. They're not. They haven't been taught about, about manhood. And so I would say they need to be encouraged. I, think most men feel, Here's what I've noticed over the years, talking to men. Most men feel good when they go to work, like they know what they're doing. They feel confident when they go home, they feel really insecure. They, they don't know how to lead their family. They don't know how to talk about the things of the Lord. They don't know how to love and serve their wife in a way they should. So the result is they tend to shut down at home when they are the opposite at work because they feel defeated at home. So I do think men need encouragement. I think they need to be, I think one kind of just practical affirmation I'd give to you, Jessica, is like, for. If a lady sees any, any moment in which her husband or the men in her life do something that feels like godly character, point it out and affirm it. Like, you know, that positive affirmation, even if it's a little thing, if he does 10 things that are not right, but you see one little thing, spark of manhood, of like. And what manhood is, is self sacrificial service for the good of others. Manhood is, is working and keeping and it's self sacrificial service. So when you see that, affirm it, talk about it and thank them for it, give them that positive affirmation. Most men already walk around feeling defeated. So any kind of positive affirmation when you see something good is, is a huge, huge, I think step. It'll, it'll boost a man and make him want to keep doing what's right.
Dr. Jessica Peck I, I just wrote that down. Self sacrificial service for the good of others. And I'm sure it's hard because men can think. Yeah, I'm at work. I don't have any of these kind of problems, like, what, what is this? And it's really hard though, because like you said, I don't think there's enough conversations going around and just doing the work that I do, Josh, you know, working with broken families, there's so much generational dysfunction that's passed down. Even some families that are well intentioned. There's a lot of people who really want to be cycle breakers who really want to. Right. But it's hard to step out in that way. And you've been talking about Elijah and about his strength, you know, the, the victory that he had at the prophets of baal, Mount Carmel. I mean, that is like one of the epic peak moments of the Bible. Talk about drama, you know, and having that, that, that could be an incredible movie, you know, when you look at that. But you also, conversely, talk about Elijah's weaknesses. And of course, after that moment of Mount Carmel, he, he runs away. He's weak and he's like, okay, Lord, that's it. just take me home. Like, I'm done.
Elijah's Weaknesses As A Pathway To Strength And Embracing Neediness In Discipleship
And God responds to him with such kindness. What does Elijah's weaknesses teach men about responding to their own limitations as well as having those mountaintop moments?
J. Josh Smith Yeah, I think it's my favorite chapter of the book, Jessica. on, on a man's weaknesses. It's. Yeah, so you're right. Elijah has this like, greatest moment in the Old Testament. I Mean, not only is he calling on fire from heaven and humiliate these false prophets, but he slaughters 450F false prophets. He then outruns Ahab's chariot. He prays and God brings rain. I mean, it's just unbelievable. And in the next chapter, he hears that Jezebel is going to kill him or wants to kill him, which, who cares? He's already defeated all the prophets and, and, and he runs for his life, going deep into the woods and prays that he would die. So I've joked a lot that Elijah's my favorite prophet. I really resonate with him. I think we're a lot alike. Not because I've called down fire from heaven, but because I've run under a tree and just wanted to die, you know? Oh, God. So we, you know, our weaknesses are the means by which God is, is drawing us closer to him. They're. They're, they're not. J.I. packer wrote a little book called Weakness Is the Way, Like. So I think every man wants to hide his weakness and hide his deficiency, but the reality is your weaknesses are the primary means by which God is going to use to draw you to himself.
Dr. Jessica Peck Oh, we're gonna stop right there.
The Role of Weakness and Neediness in Godly Manhood and the Countercultural Call to Vulnerability
There. Radio is so rude. That's what my team always tells me. We're at our second break. Joshua. We're right in the middle of something really good. We'll be back more with our conversation about the man for the day. You can get the book, you can get the Bible study. Listen, read it on your, own. Start it at your church, do it with your family. We'll be right back More with J. Josh Smith. During the Christmas season of 1976, I sat down one night to watch television.
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Mighty Name of Jesus by Hope Darst and The Belonging Company I pray into the Ah Atmosphere M Spirit of God, you're here. You have all authority. I pray over my heart and mind. I am healed by your stripes. Your blood declares m that I am free. In the mighty name of Jesus I pray. Calling on the power of heaven I proclaim. Every weapon formed against me must break. In the mighty name of Jesus.
Dr. Jessica Peck Jesus. welcome back friends. That is mighty name of Jesus by hope Darst So I'm talking today to J. Josh Smith, the man for the day. This is the book that he's written answering the call to godly manhood. I interviewed Josh back on January 20th. You can go back and listen to that first interview. He now has a video based Bible study that is come out with this. And we are encouraging men who are listening just to grab somebody else and really start a group, just start somewhere, just have a direction. Whether that's at your church, whether that's a father and a son, whether that's a, a guy, a group of guys at your work and your community, just start somewhere to have conversations about biblical manhood and what it is. And Josh, right before the break we were talking about weakness. You, you explore so many themes in your book that as I can just imagine is going to be such a different conversation among a group of men that are among a group of women. And you've been about the prophet Elijah and having this literally mountaintop moment, probably one of the most dramatic in the Bible. And you, you talked about how Elijah was and he, we have to say he also was pretty cocky about it too.
Finding Strength Through Neediness and Magnifying Christ Through Vulnerability and Community
He was mocking the prophets, right? Like oh maybe they're asleep. And then going to this point of desperation when he finds out that Jezebel wants to kill him and feeling in that weakness. So I'm gonna let you pick back up right where you left off, Josh, and, and continue to give a little preview of the insight that you give in this Bible study.
J. Josh Smith Yeah, I end the book with a chapter on weakness. And it's interesting. There's a man that's been a real mentor to me and he read the book and called me and he said I've studied the life of Elijah, you know, for my entire ministry as an older guy. And he said I've always hated this part of Elijah's story. I've always hated First Kings 19, that Elijah is so wimpy. And you know, and the reality is what I try to trace is why Elijah's weaknesses were the key, key to how he was going to be used in the future. And so the way I define weakness is Finding strength through embracing the depth of your neediness. Finding strength through embracing the depth of your neediness. So men want to hide their neediness. They don't want to act needy, they don't want to be needy. They want to like, over could do anything to hide their weaknesses and their deficiencies. When the truth is your neediness is the primary means by which God is going to make you the man he wants you to be. So, we need to find strength through our neediness. So I just, I wanted to end the book by encouraging men not to hide those things any longer, longer, but to see them and embrace them and start to move ahead. And how can a man continue to move toward manhood if he won't acknowledge the weaknesses that he has in that.
Dr. Jessica Peck That is really countercultural. That is not what I'm hearing in, in other podcasts that are talking, that are in the bro culture, whatever, you know a cultural term you want to talk about, you're. You hear much more talking about projecting strength and not disclosing your weaknesses and protecting yourself and kinds of things. Josh, I'm, I'm just really curious. Can you just tell us a little bit more? Because I think that there are probably men listening, thinking, no way, that's, that's not going to happen. How does that look if you talk about your weaknesses, but in a way that's congruent with biblical manhood? Because that, that's just, that just seems like a hard thing to reconcile.
J. Josh Smith Well, this is, goes back to what we talked about, Jessica. We have to. Men have to be discerning listeners, sinners. So there you can listen to 10 hours of podcast and kind of walk away with your chest puffed up and just really feeling confident in manhood and not recognize that almost nothing you listen to was biblical. And, and it certainly doesn't connect with the m. The godly men of the Bible. I mean, every great man of God throughout scripture has, been weak and has been needy. There is a lot of weakness. I mean, Paul talks about that, right? His strength is in his weakness. So we want to say that our strength isn't our strength, but that's not the way it works with Christ. Our strength is in our weakness because it's in our weakness. And then Christ is made strong. So if the goal of my life as a man is to appear strong, well, then I don't need weakness. If the goal of my life is to make Christ appear strong, I need weakness. And weakness is the means by which Christ looks strong. The problem is most of the talk about manhood is not about Christ. It's not about how my life can m magnify Christ. It's about how my life can magnify Christ me and let me appear to be something that's cultural's perception of manhood, when the reality is the goal of my life is to magnify Christ. And if that's true, I have to have weaknesses and you have them already. My call in the book is just embrace them and see them as the means, not the hindrance, but the means by which God is going to make you into the man he wants you to be.
Dr. Jessica Peck You're absolutely right, because it's countercultural. You know, we're told, deny yourself, deny yourself, pick up your cross and follow me. That's what we're told. That, and you defined manhood as self sacrificial, as being self sacrificial service for the good of others, which is not what you hear in popular culture. And one of the concerns that I have that you and I were just chatting about even during the break is listening in isolation because we have such a podcast culture and we have a lot of people who just consume content unidirectionally and they really want to consume content that feels good to them, that feels right to them, that just like, okay, yeah, this, I, I enjoy this. I like this. We kind of see that consumer culture in the church a little bit as.
Overcoming Passivity and Isolation in Manhood Through Community and Shared Discipleship
But God did not design us to live in isolation, to wrestle with these concepts in isolation. We have to talk it out. And when you're listening to a podcaster, I mean, as much as I absolutely love my listeners, I'm not going to know to show up with a casserole. If there's something, you know, that happens, I'm, not going to be there to pick you up off the ground when you experience something really hard. And we have to walk in community, in life with other believers. And that means, that means sharing your strengths, but also means sharing your weaknesses. And that can be really scary. What encouragement do you have to encourage men out of that isolation of just kind of listening to that passively and really engaging with other men and walking out their journey of a biblical manhood in their own discipleship journey?
J. Josh Smith Yeah, that's a good question. I, I love podcasts. I listened to one this morning and I'll listen to one in the morning. I love podcast. But if your primary pursuit of manhood is, is you walking around with your earbuds in listening, to content on manhood, you'll never get there because we become the people we want God wants us to be in the context of community. This is why God's primary means of which he's establishing his kingdom is the church. We need a church. You. You cannot be the man God wants you to be. In isolation. So, the. In my opinion, the two greatest enemies of modern manhood are passivity and isolation. Men are passive, massive. so you remember in Genesis 3, it says that Eve took of the fruit and ate it and gave it to the man who was standing with her. So Adam stood there and watched as the enemy deceived Eve and did not intervene. That is the epitome of broken manhood. Passively watching as those around you are under attack from the enemy and doing nothing. Which, to be honest, most men in their families are functioning that way. So passivity and then isolation. Isolation, like just. Just not being in the context of other men who will call you out, who will correct you. And sometimes men don't want that because they don't want to be corrected. They don't want to be called out. But we have to have that. We have to have men in our life. And so you asked me at the beginning why, you know, we followed up with the book with a Bible study is because you can read a book in isolation, but you can't read or do a Bible study in isolation. A Bible study is intended to be done with a group of men, and so trying to create some resources that will take men who feel uncomfortable with doing it. But again, this goes to passivity. They'll do the right thing, even if it feels uncomfortable, and just get together and start having some conversations. You say, well, what are we going to talk about? Well, this is why we have Bible study books. This is why I wrote this book. So I'm starting the conversation. You don't have to start the conversation. You just answer the questions and talk about it. I. I went and did a men's event recently, and I have a Bible study that follows my first book, too, the Titus 10. And he said, someday when I die and my kids find this book on the shelf, I'm terrified of what they're going to read about me in this book, because it's all stuff I wrote down and shared with other men but haven't shared with my family.
The Transformative Power of Vulnerability and Community in a Man's Discipleship Journey
And I said, well, why don't you go ahead and share it with your family? So they're not surprised. But it's just opportunities for men to process things, not just alone, but in the context of others. Proverbs, 18:1. A man who isolates himself, seeks his own desire, and goes against all, all sound wisdom. The epitome of foolishness is living in isolation. And most men are.
Dr. Jessica Peck You know, I recently saw a, man who gave a testimony at my own home church. And he was talking about, you know, just living a life that was, was not honoring to the Lord and, and really coming to that all coming to a breaking point in his marriage. And he talked about how scary it was to reach out to another man and just to say, hey, I'm at the end of myself. Like, I can't.
Dr. Jessica Peck I can't, I'm broken. I. I don't know what to do. I don't know where to turn. And something that really stood out to me, Josh, was that he talked about how this man discipled me. He took me into his life. He discipled me, he took me under his arm, he told me tough truths. He, was patient with me and my struggles. He helped me to see things that I couldn't see. And his. This man's marriage was restored, and he actually become a deacon at the church. And that was the testimony that he was sharing. And, you know, Josh, it really struck me and talking. I'm thinking about how hard it is for men to step out of isolation, to share their struggles with someone else, to not be passive, to take, to be vulnerable. But that is a road that leads to life. You can keep doing what you're doing now. I mean, both paths are hard. Both paths are difficult. Admitting your weakness and, and looking for a journey for discipleship is hard. But staying in the struggles and the brokenness that you have, that's hard too. But that also does. Doesn't that leads to death? I mean, it does. At least to death and destruction in relationships and, and even in life and even in your soul, if you have not come to know Christ as your savior, how can you encourage men? Even though it seems hard to do that? What encouragement have you seen in the past? Maybe there's your own story of encouragement that you could share to encourage them to move, to just start in the right direction.
J. Josh Smith Yeah, I would have to believe you could speak to this for hours. But there's a lot of people out there that want to be healthy. They just don't want to do things that make them healthy. So they want to live longer. They want to, you know, but they're not willing to do the hard things it takes to, to live that way. And, you know, every part of our life is like that, like it. It's One thing to desire to do something good, it's another thing to move in that direction. And I would say anytime you're going to move in a direction, physically, emotionally, spiritually, relationally, that's going to be in a positive direction. It's going to have some cost and some aspect of being uncomfortable. and so I just think it's a willingness to say, okay, I want to be a better man. I want to be the man God's called me to be. And the pathway getting there is going to require some effort, it's going to require some work, it's going to require some difficult conversations. And just knowing that, listen, the, the price you pay, which is small, to be honest with others, to get in a weekly group with men is, is worth what it's going to produce. so I, I dedicate this book, actually to two men who did that in my life. One started discipling me in high school when I was in 11th grade. I could tell a lot about that story, but I was at a very difficult stage in my life. And he just invited five guys to Chick fil a, on Tuesday mornings and started teaching us how to read their Bible. Our Bibles. That's it. And change the trajectory of my life. Super simple. The other man is my father in law who has made a deep investment in my life. So both of these were men who just were willing to have conversations with me, just to take the time and have conversations with me.
Inspiring Men to Lead and Invest in Godly Manhood for Future Generations
It, it's, it doesn't take a lot. It doesn't take a lot. I know no man feels adequate to lead a Bible study or something like that, but again, like I said, I'm starting the conversation. You just got to have it. But if you want to be the man, God's called you to be the man for the day. You got to be willing to cost something. And it's worth it, I promise.
Dr. Jessica Peck You know, you remind me of my own father in law who, who came to know the Lord, and start his discipleship journey later in life. And he did exactly talking about. He has invested in groups of teenage boys and been a life group leader for a long time. And I remember one time he told me, he said, jessica, these, these boys, they need to learn some manners. Like, they just, they do not have manners. I'm going to take them all to a nice restaurant and teach them, like, how do we treat other people? How do we, you know, have manners? All this kind of stuff. And so, and, just modeling, like, what does it mean to be a man? Even in those things, like, just how do we treat people at restaurants? Johnson. And when he came back, I said, well, how did it go? And he said, I count it. A tremendous success. Nobody ate pasta with their face. They all used utensils, and it was fantastic. But now, you know, years later, I see some of those young men who come back to him, who he made such a difference in their life just by doing what you said, just being consistent, being a listening ear, just showing up, giving them some of those moments of resilience. Josh, I'm going to give you one last call to call, call men to step up and lead, to use this resource that you've created, the man for the Day, and to start a Bible study, wherever that is in their sphere.
J. Josh Smith Yeah. Well, the title of this book and Bible study comes from A quote by C.H. spurgeon, who says, this here is the day for the man. But where's the man for the day? I think, Jessica, we also. We're having this conversation because we know here's the day for the man. We need godly men. Families, communities, churches need godly men. Men. The question is, where are they? My desire is to raise them up, and I. I want to give my life to raising up the men that we desperately need. But we have to allow the loudest voice in our life to be the voice of the. Of. Of the Lord defining for us godly manhood. So I've written two books. One laying the foundation, one building on the foundation. this book, the man for the Day, this Bible study is really answering, really two questions. How can I walk with the world, Lord? And how can I be used by Him? I think most men want to be used by God. They don't know how. So I'm trying to help give them a little pathway to know how to be used by God.
Dr. Jessica Peck Josh, I thank you so much for that. I. I just always get such great insight from you, and I appreciate you just giving this resource to men and calling them to raise up and to be raised up and to have godly leaders who they bring along beside them. And I encourage you to just listen to what Josh has said and just start somewhere. A study can give a group a starting point, but what happens around that table, what follows those people home, that can be part of a family story, a generational legacy for years and years to come. And that is something that makes me really optimistic for the future. I thank all of the men who lead in all of the ways that you do, and wherever you are and whatever you do, I pray as I always do. The Lord will bless you and keep you. Make his face to shine upon you. I'll see you right back here tomorrow. We'd like to thank our sponsors, including PreBorn. PreBorn has rescued over 400,000 babies from abortion and has seen over 100,000 commitments to Christ. Will you join PreBorn in continuing this good work supporting young moms in crisis? Save a life today. Go to preborn.com/AFR
Jeff Chamblee the views and opinions expressed in this broadcast may not necessarily reflect those of the American Family association or American Family Radio.
Dr. Jessica Peck We would like to take a moment to thank our sponsor, PreBorn. When a mother meets her baby on ultrasound and hears their heartbeat, it's a divine connection. And the majority of the time she will choose life. But they can't do it without our help. Preborn needs us, the pro life community, to come alongside them. One ultrasound is just $28. To donate, dial pound250 and say the keyword baby or visit preborn.com/AFR Candace talks
about finding out she was pregnant. Thankfully, an ultrasound provided by PreBorn allowed her to hear her baby's heartbeat. The sonogram sealed the deal for me. My baby was like this tiny little spectrum of hope and I saw his heart beating on the screen and knowing that there's life growing inside. I mean, that sonogram changed my life. I went from just Candace to mom. Thank you to everybody that has given these gifts. You guys are giving more than money. You guys are giving love.
Preborn currently has clinics that do not have ultrasound machines. Would you consider a leadership gift and sponsor a machine Today? These life Saving machines cost $15,000 more than most centers can afford. Your donation will save countless lives for years to come. Dial pound250 and say the keyword baby or go to preborn.com/AFR hello and welcome to the Doctor Nursemama Show Prescribing hope for healthy families here on American Family Radio. Here's your host, professor, pediatric nurse practitioner and mom of four, Dr. Jessica Peck.
Dr. Jessica Peck Hey there friends, and welcome to my favorite time of day getting to spend time with you prescribing hope for healthy families in today's message is for the men out there listening and of course the women in their lives. But we have a message today specifically for men. My guest today was on earlier in the year. We have a continuation of that conversation today and I think about that as we see news reports of men increasingly engaging in the church. I think about that as I talk to my husband and my sons who are going from that teenage stage and emerging into young adulthood about what it means to be a man in this culture and all of the, the, the, the, the plethora of resources that are available for women's Bible studies. But men's groups seem to be harder to come by. I know when my son went away to college and said that he had joined a men's prayer group and a men's life group the first Sunday he was there, I wanted to like write them a check right away, say thank you so much for having a place to go and that's what we're talking about today because I know that men can go to a men's event, they can spend an evening listening to advice about becoming stronger or more successful or more disc and more more respected and still go to bed kind of unsure about what that actually means and have very few places for conversations about that. There's lots of one sided advice, one unidirectional advice that's coming to them. What's harder to find is a place to open scripture with other men, ask honest questions, admit struggles and practice different responses with people who are going to keep showing up as they learn and struggle. This matters for families because what a man is learning about strength is eventually going to show up somewhere and how he handles disappointment and how he responds when someone corrects him and how he treats people who cannot do anything for him and whether the people close to him feel comfortable telling him the truth about their experience in their relationship with him. Now Pastor J. Josh Smith, he joined us previously. It's on January 20th of this year. So I encourage you. If you missed that conversation, go back and check it out. You can catch it in the podcast link. January 20th J. Joss J. Josh Smith we talked about the pressure that many men feel to become everything for everyone. And Josh encouraged us to pay attention to our direction rather than becoming overwhelmed by the distance that we still have to travel. Are we headed in the right direction? We also talked about how the condition of a man's inner life really affects the people around him. So today we're going to build on that conversation by exploring how those convictions become a rhythm of discipleship. Josh's New M the man for the Day Bible Study Book we talked about the man for the Day book previously. Now there is a new Bible study with a video access as well. It gives 10 sessions with the author, of course, J. Josh Smith Teaching Videos Personal Study A Leader Guide and this is I'm really excited about this research resource. So whether you are a young man finding your footing, you're a father who's carrying significant responsibilities, you are a man leading his family in some way wondering how to pursue this discipleship journey. This conversation is for you and for the women who are listening, this is an opportunity to really better understand and encourage the men you love. That includes me. That's why joining me today is Pastor J. Josh Smith. He's senior pastor of, Prince Avenue Baptist Church, author of the Titus 10 and the man for the Day. He spent more than two decades investing in men through local church ministry. He and his wife Andrea, have five children. Josh, I'm so glad to have you back. I have thought about our prior conversation so often, and I'm really excited for the opportunity to continue the conversation.
The Need For Men's Discipleship Resources And The Challenges Men Face In Expressing Themselves
J. Josh Smith Well, thank you, Jessica. I'm really encouraged to be back with you today. I remember our previous conversation and what an encouragement it was to me as well. And your, honestly, your passion for seeing the men in your life thrive, was significant to me, and I feel the same way.
Dr. Jessica Peck So I'm. I am so grateful for that because, you know, I've. I've shared pretty openly here on, on this show that, you know, I come from a lot of generational brokenness, as does my husband. And so looking for models of godly men who have healthy relationships with the Lord, who are walking in discipleship in a healthy, trustworthy way is just something that we, we just haven't had. And so building that, it can feel really overwhelmed. And one of the things that stuck with me so much the last time you talked about men, to focus direction rather than being overwhelmed by how far they still to go. Tell us about how this Bible study came to be as a companion to the book to help continue to encourage men to just start heading in the right direction.
Dr. Jessica Peck Sure.
J. Josh Smith Yeah. Well, a few years ago, I wrote my first book for men was called the Titus 10 Foundations for Godly Manhood. And we ended up doing a Bible study version of that. And what I saw is, you know, men may read a book by themselves. They may. They probably won't, but they might read a book by themselves. but they'll do a Bible study with a group of other guys. And that really is the intention, getting men together in conversation, talking about the things of the Lord. you know, there's. There is. You said it a minute ago, Jessica. There's a lot of talk these days about manhood, not a ton of conversation about biblical manhood and godly manhood. So I just wanted to facilitate that conversation. It's something I'm passionate about, and I've seen really big, not only an influence in my life, but in our church real significantly. And so trying to find a way that I could take this, this latest book, the man for the Day, and facilitate conversation. That's what I want to do. I want to get men talking about the things of the Lord. But, you know, if you get a group of men in a room and ask them to talk about something, it's not like the women. It's not. It may not happen, or it's may not be the things of the Lord. So, you know, I, I do see it this way. I. This Bible study guide exists to facilitate conversation among men who want to grow in their relationship with the Lord.
Dr. Jessica Peck I'm really excited about that. You know, I went to a women's event at my church actually this week, and bless the coordinator's hearts, they had a time wrangling us, to stop talking, because if you give women the opportunity. Yeah, there were just much. We talked about this last time. We're much more attuned to talk about our feelings, our struggles. That's a lot harder for men to do, and there just are a lot fewer resources. We talked about, you know, all the Bible studies, and really that's been kind of the economic engine even for some publishing houses. I'm just going to call it out that way. And even with the men's book, what I pictured, Josh, is, you know, a woman buying this and handing it to her husband if he's going to read it, saying, hey, you should read this. This is how it is. Talk to those men who are thinking, you know what? I could step up. I could lead something like this in my church. What would that look like for them to pick up the resource they have and to just gather a group of men together? Because I think there are some men who think, well, I'm not a, you know, theologian, I'm not a pastor, but there. But if you're walking with the Lord and you're willing to invest in other men, I think there's room here to just call a group of men together and start having a conversation.
J. Josh Smith Yeah, I've gotten a lot of, emails over the last few years from pastors who are wanting to know about how to start men's ministry. But I've gotten, three times as many pastors, I mean, emails from just men in a church that says, wow, my church didn't really have a men's ministry. We don't have anything formal, what should I do? And my answer always the same, don't try to start a men's ministry. Find five guys and invite them to read a book together with you. Like, just start, just do something. And that's what happens. I mean, and so, again, wanting to produce something that will facilitate those conversation. If one guy can get a passion for other men and just invite some men into a group. And, you know, you're right, it is more difficult for men to open up. And what I say about that is, don't force that. That'll happen over time. Don't. Don't don't. Session one. Get everybody to share their darkest secrets. It's not going to happen. but just start having a conversation. And so I, I have found. And we found as we're thinking more about men's ministry, because you're right, Jessica, so much, so many publishers are surviving because of women's Bible studies, but it's starting to turn. Men's Bible studies are really starting to, to pick up some steam. And, I think churches are noticing more and more that they can't ignore men any longer. And so just encouraging men, if, if you have any passion to grow as a man of God or for the men around you, just start something. Get, the Bible study. It's very easy to do. you read, basically, you know, walk through a chapter a week, have some devotions throughout the week, and then all the questions. You don't need to be a gifted facilitator. You just open up the pages and walk through the questions you've answered. So, you know, a lot of men, I think, feel deficient in these areas. They feel deficient in spiritual things and deficient in teaching. But the reason you have Bible study guides is so you don't have to worry about that. You're not, there's a video content, you're not teaching anything. You're helping lead a conversation among men. And anybody can do that.
Dr. Jessica Peck Well, I think I shared with you last time. My husband has a group of men that he meets with. they go out once a week. They rotate who gets to pick the restaurant. And usually telling you, Josh, these are, I'm so happy that he has to go.
Illustrating Men's Discipleship Through Real-Life Examples And The Importance of Preparation
These guys to go out with because they're, they're not places that I would generally pick. They're adventurous and, and, you know, I mean, even one day they were at the Lubies and just discussing their, their Bible study. They were studying Revelation at the time. Can you imagine? Like, I want you to picture this. These five very different guys from different walks of life who are sitting in Louis discussing Revelation. And and. And somebody came over and was said. I'm just really encouraged to see this group of men together, praying over their meal and just having honest conversation. That's really encouraging and be as simple as that. And one of the session topics that you talk about, you have, you have so many great session topics. You talk about preparation. And I think that just goes into what we're talking about. How do you prepare in this season? How do you prepare what the, what the next phase of your life is? Going to look like in your discipleship journey. And you talk about how Elijah's life can teach a man who feels overlooked or impatient for a more significant opportunity. Can you give us a little preview into that and some of the discussion topics that you would have?
J. Josh Smith Yeah. So I, you know, I walk through the life of Elijah in this book. He's a great. He's a great, kind of model for manhood in a lot of ways. But Elijah's life is interesting in that he came out of nowhere with this huge moment, face to face with King Ahab, with a prophetic word. And you just think that from that moment on, his life's going to explode and do great things. Well, the next story tells us that for three years, God had put him in hiding, in obscurity. But what he didn't realize because he didn't see the big picture like the Lord did, everything God was doing in his life was preparing him for what's next. And so I think all of us, I mean, we're speaking about men. So I know in my life, we have a tendency to kind, of think little of everyday situations in our life or even big situations in our life, when the reality is God is committed to making us into the person he wants us to be. And every situation in our lives is God's preparation for becoming that person. So we look at a situation that might be frustrating to us and look at it as a hindrance. This is keeping me from being the person I want to be. But if we trust in the providence of God, then we can't look at it that way. Every situation in our life, every big event, every small event, every discouragement, every defeat, every victory, every moment. M Is God's preparation helping me be the person God wants me to be. So what I try to challenge men with is to embrace life that way is to look at every single issue in our life, whether it be a conflict in a relationship or difficulty at work. That's preparation. God is molding you. He's making you into something great. And so look at those opportunities as, as chances to be able to. To walk with God and press in further in our relationship with God. God is preparing us for something. And every part of our life is that way. So it's just kind of me challenging men to think of life as God's preparation.
Dr. Jessica Peck I think that's easier said than done. And it goes back to what you were talking about earlier. Not being discouraged, by the distance of you have to go. And I think sometimes that you just need to head in the right direction and just start to prepare. And it's in that every day over time. But, you know, men are humans in society just like women are, and none of us are. Are exempt from the desire for instant gratification. We live in a society where we just want everything to be instant. And I think that can be really hard, especially for men who are wired generally to. To, fix things. Like, they just want to fix things. How do you help men prepare for seasons of struggle where, you know, some character formation is going to take. It's, going to take a season to walk through. It's not going to be fixed instantly.
J. Josh Smith Well, I, you know, a lot of this, everybody writes out of their own circumstances and situations. So I start this book, with a story of how, in 2013, my wife, we had four children at the time, from 10 to one, was diagnosed with stage four cancer. Yeah.
Dr. Jessica Peck Gosh. Oh, no, I've not been there, Josh.
J. Josh Smith Yeah, it was a. Just a. She's by God's grace, she's okay. But we did 600 hours of chemo and 26 rounds of radiation and major, surgery. All of these things. But I talk about how through this book, I kind of start the book and end the book a little bit with that story and how realizing that in all of that, there was so much goodness from God because God was showing us that he was preparing us for something that's coming. And I mean, honestly, I think we would have chosen not to have that. Obviously would have chosen not to have that situation. But, man, looking back on that now, we're like 13 years away from that. I mean, my life has dramatically changed as a result of that, and that's God preparing me. But it's the small things, too. You know, I, I talk often about guys, you know, we get frustrated in traffic and frustrated when something doesn't work. Well, every. Every one of those moments are God just building character in us. So just trying to find a way to see God in everything and say, lord, I just, I'm so.
Dr. Jessica Peck I have more questions about that. I'm m gonna hold you right there because we're already our first break, but I have more questions about that. We'll be right back with more from Pastor J. Josh Smith and the man for the day, the book and the Bible study. Don't want to miss it. We'll be right back. On the other side of this break, Hello, I'm Jessica peck, host of Dr. Nursemama. did you know that this content is listener supported. Without people like you, this podcast would not exist. And that's why we need you. A generous monthly gift of any amount will help sustain American Family Radio and specifically this podcast. Please consider becoming a monthly financial partner today by visiting afr.net/give that's afr.net/give
God Story by Anne Wilson I've gone where the hopeless go the dead end of a broken road and I've learned there's a place so low you can't see a way out been stuck in a ditch so deep See thought it might be the end of me But I'm still here and there could only be one way how my life is a God story Got to tell the world what he's done for me Miracles or miracles that only he could do I'm proof that we're all only one prayer away from a testimony.
Dr. Jessica Peck Welcome back friends. That is God Story by Anne Wilson. And that's what we're talking about today, the God story in the lives of men. I'm talking to J. Josh Smith about his book the man for the Day Answering the Call to godly Manhood. He and I had a previous conversation about his book on January 20th. You can go back and catch it on the podcast. And today we're talking about the, the Bible study that has been released with this. It's a video based Bible study with a book and really just calling men into biblical manhood. And, and Josh, during the break you and I were chatting a little bit and talking about there's a real difference in the competing cultural messages here on what does it mean to be a man. And you know, I, I shared with you, I have I struggle with this. I mean I am a woman raising sons. Of course I have, my husband is an influence in their lives. But it really scares me a little bit and I don't use that lightly. But the competing messages that they have, what is toxic masculinity? What is feminization? You know, we talk about feminization of the church and there's all of there's no shortage of voices in this space, both secular and faith based. And we see the rise in interest and influencer created conversation and that has its time and place. I mean people are listening right now to us having a radio show podcast and I hope that they find encouragement from that. But we need to be discerning about those voices because not every voice voice talking about authentic manhood, it's talking about biblical manhood. And some of the voices that would appear to be talking about that Maybe are not true to God's word either. What advice do you give to men in discerning the voices out there that are wildly debating the concept of a, biblical manhood?
J. Josh Smith Yeah, we're in an interesting cultural moment. I mean, I think there was years and years where no one was talking about manhood.
Really.
J. Josh Smith This just wasn't a conversation. And I think you're right, particularly within the church, there was so much emphasis put on women's ministry that just over the last five or six years actually there's been so much more conversation about men. Well, in, in the midst of that, there's also a lot of conversations again about manhood that aren't from a biblical perspective. and so I, I think the key, and I wrote about this a lot in my first book, the Titus 10, which really was the foundations for, for biblical manhood, is making sure that we're formed by Scripture. you know, I talk in my first book about this idea of dominion. What does it mean for a man to walk in dominion and seeing that as not manly bravado? It's not authority. Dominion is self sacrificial service for the sake of others. So making sure that we're thinking rightly and correctly and make sure we're defining manhood through the terms of scripture. Looking at like in this book we're talking about today, I look at the life of Elijah. you cannot read the life of Elijah and not think that that's a man's man. I mean that was a manly guy, the stuff that he did. But man, when you look about his submission to Christ and to the Lord, when you look at the way in which he, was prepared for the Lord, just his obedience, man, it gives a picture of manhood that may not be the manly bravado of today. A man is not a man because he does manly things. He's a man because he has manly character. And that character is what God really clearly defines for us in Scripture. But, but we've got to be discerning and think about it from characters m like Elijah.
Dr. Jessica Peck Well, one of the characteristics that you know, I know is, is often debated is anger. And anger has its own session in, in this study. It's a chapter. And I think that can be a good emotion that we look at, you know, because women and men are generally going to express anger, you know, very differently.
Exploring Anger And Repentance In Biblical Manhood And The Importance of Vulnerability
And when you think about being rightly indignant, you know, just really having a godly outrage over some things, it can be received very differently than you project it into your Family's life. What, what did you say about anger in this book? How can, how can men look at, at an emotion like anger and the lens of what does it mean in biblical manhood? Like still having anger and recognizing that is, I mean, even Jesus was angry. Right? We hear a lot of talking about, flipping tables in the temple, but also taking responsibility for expressing that in a godly way. I, I know I just asked you basically to serve world, you know, to give world peace. I'll have your Nobel waiting at the end of this, but where do you start to delve into that?
J. Josh Smith Well, I've written a good bit and I've never spent more time articulating a chapter than this chapter on anger. I was a little scared to write it. But you have these situations like in First Kings 18, when Elijah, slaughters 450 prophets of Baal, which is an amazing moment. And you see in Elijah this sense of righteous indignation. But at the same time, I don't know of anything that destroys more families than angry, angry men. I mean, unrighteous anger does not produce the righteousness of God. That's what the scripture says, clearly. But there's a lot of families destroyed by angry men. And so, boy, I was, I was frightened, to write a chapter on anger, but I thought it needed to be addressed as I'm walking through and Elijah and I think one of the things that I've noticed, we have a generation of men who are unbothered by ungodliness. They can watch ungodly things and not be bothered. They can talk about ungodly things and not be, but they're just not bothered. They'll look at, the way women are treated or injustice or crime or anything like that, and they're just not bothered. They're like numb to the things of the Lord. And that is not a godly characteristic. And so the way I defined anger is this being deeply bothered by what bothers God and responding in a godly way, being deeply bothered by what bothers God and responding in a godly way. And so we respond in a way that God would respond. So that keeps us from the unrighteous anger. And then, you know, this is interesting. You can find a lot of men that'll rant on a lot of things. On a lot of things. You don't say, oh, you don't say. So I want, I, I think my desire is to see men who are bothered by what bothers God. So sometimes men are really angry about things and they're not things that, that bother God, they're just things that bother them. so you know, Exodus 34, 6 is very clear. Go slow to anger. I, I read through the entire Old Testament when I was thinking about this chapter. I think, you know, there's this idea that the Old Testament God of the Old Testament is angry. There are very rare instances of God being angry. God is much more slow to anger than he is angry. God is very careful with his anger. Yes, Jesus got angry and we see that a, couple of times, but not much. And he's only angry about things that make, make God angry. So in this generation of men who are just, are bothered by stuff and they're ranting about stuff and talking about manhood and all those kind of things, what I want to say is, hey, listen, is what bothering you? Something that bothers God and are you responding in a godly way? So that's why I wrote the chapter. I thought anger is a conversation we need to have.
Dr. Jessica Peck It is a conversation we need to have because, I mean, you said it, Josh. Families can be destroyed by ungodly anger. And sometimes that's just something that you bring into your family because it's the way that you were raised. Sometimes it's unresolved trauma that you might have experienced, you know, unresolved emotions. If you don't have healthy emotion processing, sometimes it can come out as anger. And I think sometimes men, they don't see even, it's hard for them sometimes to even label that emotion as angry because maybe other people experience it as angry, but they don't feel like it's angry. And you talk about, in the, in the book, there's a difference between regretting an outburst and practicing repentance and what that change might look like for family members. Can you talk a little bit about that?
J. Josh Smith That, yeah. So I wrote an entire chapter in the book on repentance. And I think it's because, some of the most powerful moments in my life, in which is which I've seen men genuinely repent of wrong, that you can, if a father will acknowledge his wrong to his children and his family in a way in which he genuinely repents, that right there, that one act can be a life transforming act. It's a picture of the gospel that almost nothing else pictures. And it's rare, I think among all people, but I think specifically among men, who often are slow to be sorry and slow to repent. And so I talk about the process of repentance and what it means to turn from Sin and to acknowledge that to those that you've hurt, and not just to be sorry about it, but to feel grieved over it, and then after feeling grieved, to then move. Move in the right direction. Sometimes we think repentance is just feeling bad about something that's. That's a part of repentance. Genuine sorrow is a part of repentance, but restoration is also a part of repentance. And. And, responding and moving in a godly way is also part of repentance. So this. This goes back to Jessica, what we're just talking about. We have this idea of what manhood is. Well, manhood is repentance. Manhood is godly, genuine, repentant. Nobody's talking about that. Like, no one's out there saying, real men repent. People are saying, real men do this, and real men watch this, and real men feel this way, and they do that. Those, are activities. Those are not aspects of character. Character makes a real man. And so if you want to talk about a picture of a godly man, it's a man who will acknowledge when he's wrong and will genuinely repent, in front of others. So that's the kind of manhood we want to. We want to give a picture of. And the Bible is clear. It's just. We've got to take the time to see what the Bible says about manhood, not just respond to. To, again, manly bravado, which, I get really tired of, but actual godly manhood.
Dr. Jessica Peck Well, you've given us a good differentiator in that anger thinking. If you're angry, are you angry about the things that anger God? That's a really good baseline gut check to think, okay, am I right? And having this anger, and if it's an overflow of emotion or something else, like you said, just the soapbox or what. Whatever else you might be angry about, that might be a good differentiator there. Josh, I'm wondering if you can just take us into the world of what it's like to be a man, trying to navigate all of those things and explain that to the women and their ecosystem, because, you know, God made men and women very differently, and we see things very differently. What is it like trying to navigate the pressures of these competing cultural messages of just all of these different things, like trying to tell you what it. What you need to do to be a man, and then what you're not being a man, and then, you know, having the women in your life, like, speak to what they want to be. And just what is it like to feel that kind of pressure? And what can, what can women in the. Like me, you know, what can I do to encourage my husband and my. And my sons and, and the men in my life to aspire them towards biblical manhood without feeling like I'm nagging them or preaching at them or, you know, just perpetually disappointed?
J. Josh Smith Yeah, no, that's a, that's a really good question. And I would start by saying this. You don't, don't feel sorry for men. We, I mean, we all have it hard, right? Like every. Everybody's life is hard. And there's tons of things about my wife's life and I'm, You know, the things that she does every day that are hard as well. But, you know, I would say this. I was raised in a good home with godly parents who walked with and in a good church. And I was starting about 11th grade, I was discipled and learned how to walk with God. But no one ever talked to me about godly manhood. Like, what does it mean to be a godly man? That's why I wrote my first book, the Titus 10, because no one was having those conversations. I mean, my dad taught me how to get a firm handshake, stand up when someone approaches me, and polish my shoes, and those kind of things, like manly things. But no one said, here's godly manhood. So here's what I would say. I think the vast majority of men have no idea what this looks like. And they've been attracted again to some ideas of manhood that aren't actually biblical, that are more external practices than, than really internal character. And so I would say this. Most men just don't have a clue. Blue. They're not. They haven't been taught about, about manhood. And so I would say they need to be encouraged. I, think most men feel, Here's what I've noticed over the years, talking to men. Most men feel good when they go to work, like they know what they're doing. They feel confident when they go home, they feel really insecure. They, they don't know how to lead their family. They don't know how to talk about the things of the Lord. They don't know how to love and serve their wife in a way they should. So the result is they tend to shut down at home when they are the opposite at work because they feel defeated at home. So I do think men need encouragement. I think they need to be, I think one kind of just practical affirmation I'd give to you, Jessica, is like, for. If a lady sees any, any moment in which her husband or the men in her life do something that feels like godly character, point it out and affirm it. Like, you know, that positive affirmation, even if it's a little thing, if he does 10 things that are not right, but you see one little thing, spark of manhood, of like. And what manhood is, is self sacrificial service for the good of others. Manhood is, is working and keeping and it's self sacrificial service. So when you see that, affirm it, talk about it and thank them for it, give them that positive affirmation. Most men already walk around feeling defeated. So any kind of positive affirmation when you see something good is, is a huge, huge, I think step. It'll, it'll boost a man and make him want to keep doing what's right.
Dr. Jessica Peck I, I just wrote that down. Self sacrificial service for the good of others. And I'm sure it's hard because men can think. Yeah, I'm at work. I don't have any of these kind of problems, like, what, what is this? And it's really hard though, because like you said, I don't think there's enough conversations going around and just doing the work that I do, Josh, you know, working with broken families, there's so much generational dysfunction that's passed down. Even some families that are well intentioned. There's a lot of people who really want to be cycle breakers who really want to. Right. But it's hard to step out in that way. And you've been talking about Elijah and about his strength, you know, the, the victory that he had at the prophets of baal, Mount Carmel. I mean, that is like one of the epic peak moments of the Bible. Talk about drama, you know, and having that, that, that could be an incredible movie, you know, when you look at that. But you also, conversely, talk about Elijah's weaknesses. And of course, after that moment of Mount Carmel, he, he runs away. He's weak and he's like, okay, Lord, that's it. just take me home. Like, I'm done.
Elijah's Weaknesses As A Pathway To Strength And Embracing Neediness In Discipleship
And God responds to him with such kindness. What does Elijah's weaknesses teach men about responding to their own limitations as well as having those mountaintop moments?
J. Josh Smith Yeah, I think it's my favorite chapter of the book, Jessica. on, on a man's weaknesses. It's. Yeah, so you're right. Elijah has this like, greatest moment in the Old Testament. I Mean, not only is he calling on fire from heaven and humiliate these false prophets, but he slaughters 450F false prophets. He then outruns Ahab's chariot. He prays and God brings rain. I mean, it's just unbelievable. And in the next chapter, he hears that Jezebel is going to kill him or wants to kill him, which, who cares? He's already defeated all the prophets and, and, and he runs for his life, going deep into the woods and prays that he would die. So I've joked a lot that Elijah's my favorite prophet. I really resonate with him. I think we're a lot alike. Not because I've called down fire from heaven, but because I've run under a tree and just wanted to die, you know? Oh, God. So we, you know, our weaknesses are the means by which God is, is drawing us closer to him. They're. They're, they're not. J.I. packer wrote a little book called Weakness Is the Way, Like. So I think every man wants to hide his weakness and hide his deficiency, but the reality is your weaknesses are the primary means by which God is going to use to draw you to himself.
Dr. Jessica Peck Oh, we're gonna stop right there.
The Role of Weakness and Neediness in Godly Manhood and the Countercultural Call to Vulnerability
There. Radio is so rude. That's what my team always tells me. We're at our second break. Joshua. We're right in the middle of something really good. We'll be back more with our conversation about the man for the day. You can get the book, you can get the Bible study. Listen, read it on your, own. Start it at your church, do it with your family. We'll be right back More with J. Josh Smith. During the Christmas season of 1976, I sat down one night to watch television.
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Mighty Name of Jesus by Hope Darst and The Belonging Company I pray into the Ah Atmosphere M Spirit of God, you're here. You have all authority. I pray over my heart and mind. I am healed by your stripes. Your blood declares m that I am free. In the mighty name of Jesus I pray. Calling on the power of heaven I proclaim. Every weapon formed against me must break. In the mighty name of Jesus.
Dr. Jessica Peck Jesus. welcome back friends. That is mighty name of Jesus by hope Darst So I'm talking today to J. Josh Smith, the man for the day. This is the book that he's written answering the call to godly manhood. I interviewed Josh back on January 20th. You can go back and listen to that first interview. He now has a video based Bible study that is come out with this. And we are encouraging men who are listening just to grab somebody else and really start a group, just start somewhere, just have a direction. Whether that's at your church, whether that's a father and a son, whether that's a, a guy, a group of guys at your work and your community, just start somewhere to have conversations about biblical manhood and what it is. And Josh, right before the break we were talking about weakness. You, you explore so many themes in your book that as I can just imagine is going to be such a different conversation among a group of men that are among a group of women. And you've been about the prophet Elijah and having this literally mountaintop moment, probably one of the most dramatic in the Bible. And you, you talked about how Elijah was and he, we have to say he also was pretty cocky about it too.
Finding Strength Through Neediness and Magnifying Christ Through Vulnerability and Community
He was mocking the prophets, right? Like oh maybe they're asleep. And then going to this point of desperation when he finds out that Jezebel wants to kill him and feeling in that weakness. So I'm gonna let you pick back up right where you left off, Josh, and, and continue to give a little preview of the insight that you give in this Bible study.
J. Josh Smith Yeah, I end the book with a chapter on weakness. And it's interesting. There's a man that's been a real mentor to me and he read the book and called me and he said I've studied the life of Elijah, you know, for my entire ministry as an older guy. And he said I've always hated this part of Elijah's story. I've always hated First Kings 19, that Elijah is so wimpy. And you know, and the reality is what I try to trace is why Elijah's weaknesses were the key, key to how he was going to be used in the future. And so the way I define weakness is Finding strength through embracing the depth of your neediness. Finding strength through embracing the depth of your neediness. So men want to hide their neediness. They don't want to act needy, they don't want to be needy. They want to like, over could do anything to hide their weaknesses and their deficiencies. When the truth is your neediness is the primary means by which God is going to make you the man he wants you to be. So, we need to find strength through our neediness. So I just, I wanted to end the book by encouraging men not to hide those things any longer, longer, but to see them and embrace them and start to move ahead. And how can a man continue to move toward manhood if he won't acknowledge the weaknesses that he has in that.
Dr. Jessica Peck That is really countercultural. That is not what I'm hearing in, in other podcasts that are talking, that are in the bro culture, whatever, you know a cultural term you want to talk about, you're. You hear much more talking about projecting strength and not disclosing your weaknesses and protecting yourself and kinds of things. Josh, I'm, I'm just really curious. Can you just tell us a little bit more? Because I think that there are probably men listening, thinking, no way, that's, that's not going to happen. How does that look if you talk about your weaknesses, but in a way that's congruent with biblical manhood? Because that, that's just, that just seems like a hard thing to reconcile.
J. Josh Smith Well, this is, goes back to what we talked about, Jessica. We have to. Men have to be discerning listeners, sinners. So there you can listen to 10 hours of podcast and kind of walk away with your chest puffed up and just really feeling confident in manhood and not recognize that almost nothing you listen to was biblical. And, and it certainly doesn't connect with the m. The godly men of the Bible. I mean, every great man of God throughout scripture has, been weak and has been needy. There is a lot of weakness. I mean, Paul talks about that, right? His strength is in his weakness. So we want to say that our strength isn't our strength, but that's not the way it works with Christ. Our strength is in our weakness because it's in our weakness. And then Christ is made strong. So if the goal of my life as a man is to appear strong, well, then I don't need weakness. If the goal of my life is to make Christ appear strong, I need weakness. And weakness is the means by which Christ looks strong. The problem is most of the talk about manhood is not about Christ. It's not about how my life can m magnify Christ. It's about how my life can magnify Christ me and let me appear to be something that's cultural's perception of manhood, when the reality is the goal of my life is to magnify Christ. And if that's true, I have to have weaknesses and you have them already. My call in the book is just embrace them and see them as the means, not the hindrance, but the means by which God is going to make you into the man he wants you to be.
Dr. Jessica Peck You're absolutely right, because it's countercultural. You know, we're told, deny yourself, deny yourself, pick up your cross and follow me. That's what we're told. That, and you defined manhood as self sacrificial, as being self sacrificial service for the good of others, which is not what you hear in popular culture. And one of the concerns that I have that you and I were just chatting about even during the break is listening in isolation because we have such a podcast culture and we have a lot of people who just consume content unidirectionally and they really want to consume content that feels good to them, that feels right to them, that just like, okay, yeah, this, I, I enjoy this. I like this. We kind of see that consumer culture in the church a little bit as.
Overcoming Passivity and Isolation in Manhood Through Community and Shared Discipleship
But God did not design us to live in isolation, to wrestle with these concepts in isolation. We have to talk it out. And when you're listening to a podcaster, I mean, as much as I absolutely love my listeners, I'm not going to know to show up with a casserole. If there's something, you know, that happens, I'm, not going to be there to pick you up off the ground when you experience something really hard. And we have to walk in community, in life with other believers. And that means, that means sharing your strengths, but also means sharing your weaknesses. And that can be really scary. What encouragement do you have to encourage men out of that isolation of just kind of listening to that passively and really engaging with other men and walking out their journey of a biblical manhood in their own discipleship journey?
J. Josh Smith Yeah, that's a good question. I, I love podcasts. I listened to one this morning and I'll listen to one in the morning. I love podcast. But if your primary pursuit of manhood is, is you walking around with your earbuds in listening, to content on manhood, you'll never get there because we become the people we want God wants us to be in the context of community. This is why God's primary means of which he's establishing his kingdom is the church. We need a church. You. You cannot be the man God wants you to be. In isolation. So, the. In my opinion, the two greatest enemies of modern manhood are passivity and isolation. Men are passive, massive. so you remember in Genesis 3, it says that Eve took of the fruit and ate it and gave it to the man who was standing with her. So Adam stood there and watched as the enemy deceived Eve and did not intervene. That is the epitome of broken manhood. Passively watching as those around you are under attack from the enemy and doing nothing. Which, to be honest, most men in their families are functioning that way. So passivity and then isolation. Isolation, like just. Just not being in the context of other men who will call you out, who will correct you. And sometimes men don't want that because they don't want to be corrected. They don't want to be called out. But we have to have that. We have to have men in our life. And so you asked me at the beginning why, you know, we followed up with the book with a Bible study is because you can read a book in isolation, but you can't read or do a Bible study in isolation. A Bible study is intended to be done with a group of men, and so trying to create some resources that will take men who feel uncomfortable with doing it. But again, this goes to passivity. They'll do the right thing, even if it feels uncomfortable, and just get together and start having some conversations. You say, well, what are we going to talk about? Well, this is why we have Bible study books. This is why I wrote this book. So I'm starting the conversation. You don't have to start the conversation. You just answer the questions and talk about it. I. I went and did a men's event recently, and I have a Bible study that follows my first book, too, the Titus 10. And he said, someday when I die and my kids find this book on the shelf, I'm terrified of what they're going to read about me in this book, because it's all stuff I wrote down and shared with other men but haven't shared with my family.
The Transformative Power of Vulnerability and Community in a Man's Discipleship Journey
And I said, well, why don't you go ahead and share it with your family? So they're not surprised. But it's just opportunities for men to process things, not just alone, but in the context of others. Proverbs, 18:1. A man who isolates himself, seeks his own desire, and goes against all, all sound wisdom. The epitome of foolishness is living in isolation. And most men are.
Dr. Jessica Peck You know, I recently saw a, man who gave a testimony at my own home church. And he was talking about, you know, just living a life that was, was not honoring to the Lord and, and really coming to that all coming to a breaking point in his marriage. And he talked about how scary it was to reach out to another man and just to say, hey, I'm at the end of myself. Like, I can't.
Dr. Jessica Peck I can't, I'm broken. I. I don't know what to do. I don't know where to turn. And something that really stood out to me, Josh, was that he talked about how this man discipled me. He took me into his life. He discipled me, he took me under his arm, he told me tough truths. He, was patient with me and my struggles. He helped me to see things that I couldn't see. And his. This man's marriage was restored, and he actually become a deacon at the church. And that was the testimony that he was sharing. And, you know, Josh, it really struck me and talking. I'm thinking about how hard it is for men to step out of isolation, to share their struggles with someone else, to not be passive, to take, to be vulnerable. But that is a road that leads to life. You can keep doing what you're doing now. I mean, both paths are hard. Both paths are difficult. Admitting your weakness and, and looking for a journey for discipleship is hard. But staying in the struggles and the brokenness that you have, that's hard too. But that also does. Doesn't that leads to death? I mean, it does. At least to death and destruction in relationships and, and even in life and even in your soul, if you have not come to know Christ as your savior, how can you encourage men? Even though it seems hard to do that? What encouragement have you seen in the past? Maybe there's your own story of encouragement that you could share to encourage them to move, to just start in the right direction.
J. Josh Smith Yeah, I would have to believe you could speak to this for hours. But there's a lot of people out there that want to be healthy. They just don't want to do things that make them healthy. So they want to live longer. They want to, you know, but they're not willing to do the hard things it takes to, to live that way. And, you know, every part of our life is like that, like it. It's One thing to desire to do something good, it's another thing to move in that direction. And I would say anytime you're going to move in a direction, physically, emotionally, spiritually, relationally, that's going to be in a positive direction. It's going to have some cost and some aspect of being uncomfortable. and so I just think it's a willingness to say, okay, I want to be a better man. I want to be the man God's called me to be. And the pathway getting there is going to require some effort, it's going to require some work, it's going to require some difficult conversations. And just knowing that, listen, the, the price you pay, which is small, to be honest with others, to get in a weekly group with men is, is worth what it's going to produce. so I, I dedicate this book, actually to two men who did that in my life. One started discipling me in high school when I was in 11th grade. I could tell a lot about that story, but I was at a very difficult stage in my life. And he just invited five guys to Chick fil a, on Tuesday mornings and started teaching us how to read their Bible. Our Bibles. That's it. And change the trajectory of my life. Super simple. The other man is my father in law who has made a deep investment in my life. So both of these were men who just were willing to have conversations with me, just to take the time and have conversations with me.
Inspiring Men to Lead and Invest in Godly Manhood for Future Generations
It, it's, it doesn't take a lot. It doesn't take a lot. I know no man feels adequate to lead a Bible study or something like that, but again, like I said, I'm starting the conversation. You just got to have it. But if you want to be the man, God's called you to be the man for the day. You got to be willing to cost something. And it's worth it, I promise.
Dr. Jessica Peck You know, you remind me of my own father in law who, who came to know the Lord, and start his discipleship journey later in life. And he did exactly talking about. He has invested in groups of teenage boys and been a life group leader for a long time. And I remember one time he told me, he said, jessica, these, these boys, they need to learn some manners. Like, they just, they do not have manners. I'm going to take them all to a nice restaurant and teach them, like, how do we treat other people? How do we, you know, have manners? All this kind of stuff. And so, and, just modeling, like, what does it mean to be a man? Even in those things, like, just how do we treat people at restaurants? Johnson. And when he came back, I said, well, how did it go? And he said, I count it. A tremendous success. Nobody ate pasta with their face. They all used utensils, and it was fantastic. But now, you know, years later, I see some of those young men who come back to him, who he made such a difference in their life just by doing what you said, just being consistent, being a listening ear, just showing up, giving them some of those moments of resilience. Josh, I'm going to give you one last call to call, call men to step up and lead, to use this resource that you've created, the man for the Day, and to start a Bible study, wherever that is in their sphere.
J. Josh Smith Yeah. Well, the title of this book and Bible study comes from A quote by C.H. spurgeon, who says, this here is the day for the man. But where's the man for the day? I think, Jessica, we also. We're having this conversation because we know here's the day for the man. We need godly men. Families, communities, churches need godly men. Men. The question is, where are they? My desire is to raise them up, and I. I want to give my life to raising up the men that we desperately need. But we have to allow the loudest voice in our life to be the voice of the. Of. Of the Lord defining for us godly manhood. So I've written two books. One laying the foundation, one building on the foundation. this book, the man for the Day, this Bible study is really answering, really two questions. How can I walk with the world, Lord? And how can I be used by Him? I think most men want to be used by God. They don't know how. So I'm trying to help give them a little pathway to know how to be used by God.
Dr. Jessica Peck Josh, I thank you so much for that. I. I just always get such great insight from you, and I appreciate you just giving this resource to men and calling them to raise up and to be raised up and to have godly leaders who they bring along beside them. And I encourage you to just listen to what Josh has said and just start somewhere. A study can give a group a starting point, but what happens around that table, what follows those people home, that can be part of a family story, a generational legacy for years and years to come. And that is something that makes me really optimistic for the future. I thank all of the men who lead in all of the ways that you do, and wherever you are and whatever you do, I pray as I always do. The Lord will bless you and keep you. Make his face to shine upon you. I'll see you right back here tomorrow. We'd like to thank our sponsors, including PreBorn. PreBorn has rescued over 400,000 babies from abortion and has seen over 100,000 commitments to Christ. Will you join PreBorn in continuing this good work supporting young moms in crisis? Save a life today. Go to preborn.com/AFR
Jeff Chamblee the views and opinions expressed in this broadcast may not necessarily reflect those of the American Family association or American Family Radio.
Pastor and Author J. Josh Smith talks with Jessica about his new study entitled " The Man for the Day"
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