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 : and welcome to the Dr. Nurse Mama show, prescribing hope for healthy families here

 : on American Family Radio. Here's your host, professor, pediatric nurse practitioner and mom of four, Dr. Jessica Peck.

Almost everyone struggles with some degree of procrastination

Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, hey there, friends, and welcome to my favorite time of day on my favorite day of the week. Yes, friends, it is Friday. As my kids like to say, I don't care who you are, where you are, even if you're like me and a nurse. And Friday really doesn't mean anything. Friday, Friday has a different energy. And usually on Fridays, we have healthy habit day. But we've got a really special treat for you. So if you're looking for those healthy habits, listen to last week or next week. I'm gonna double up next week and catch up. But we had a great opportunity for a really wonderful guest to share with you today to talk about something that is going to hit close to home. This is something that's going to step on your toes in a very practical way, but in a very good way. And we know that we live in a world that has mastered the art of distract. We have glorified multitasking to something that is a badge of honor. Even though we know the science shows multitasking, procrastination, which is what we're talking about today, they're not effective and in fact, they can be damaging to relationships. But we have help and hope for you. I know that you as families, you're juggling more than ever. We've got work deadlines and school calendars and sports practices and endless notifications that are constantly pulling us back to a screen. And somewhere in the middle of all of that noise, the things that matter just keep getting pushed to later. In a minute, In a minute. In five minutes. I know I'm really guilty of this. My kids know in a minute does not mean a minute. And it's not because we don't care. It's because we just feel stuck. And here's the surprising truth. Almost everyone struggles with some degree of procrastination. In fact, studies show that up to 95% of people admit to procrastinating. And for many, that's not just an occasional delay. It is a lifestyle. It is just something, a way of being.

Jon Acuff argues procrastination is actually a learned coping mechanism

But what if procrastination isn't actually a failure? What if it's been misunderstood all along? Today, we are talking about a completely different way to look at productivity. Not as pressure to do more, but as permission to finally start. Now, my guest today, many of you will be familiar with. His name is Jon Acuff. He is a New York times bestselling author of 11 books, including soundtracks, which, which was one of my favorites. Finish and all it takes is a Goal. And his work has reached over a million readers. And he speaks all over everywhere. And his faith story began in a pastor's home where he watched his father plant a church and share the gospel in a place where many people had never heard it. And it shaped his understanding about communication and how do we communicate good news. And he has done that through his work and communicated help and hope again for millions. His newest book is called Procrastination Proof. Never get stuck again. That's a pretty bold claim, and we're going to dive right into that. And Jon challenges one of the biggest myths that we believe that procrastination is about laziness. Instead, he argues it's actually a learned coping mechanism and one we can replace with something far more effective. Jon thanks so much for dropping in and spending time with us today. We're so glad to have you here.

Jon Acuff : Thanks for having me. I'm looking forward to it.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Me too.

A lot of people use procrastination as a solution to avoid something they're afraid of

Well, Jon there is one question that I cannot put off any longer, Because I was reading an article about you, and I'm from Texas, so, you know, that comes from. With a certain mindset and attitude. I read somewhere that your high school mascot was something like the mighty clams. And I just need to know if that's true.

Jon Acuff : It's true. It was the fighting Clams. And I always say, what a terrifying mascot, because if a clam is coming at you, you have at best three weeks to get out of the way. Like, if a clam is upset, you're in so much trouble. So, yeah, that was in Ipswich, Massachusetts, north shore. So, yeah, a seafaring town. So that's why we ended up with the clams.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Okay, the clams. Yeah, a little bit different than some of the mascots that we see around here, but that just struck me as really humorous. And you're right, you would have three weeks to get out of the way. But that's exactly what we're Talking about today, something that is a struggle for everybody is putting stuff off. And so many years, you know, we really have just been told by culture, if we try harder, if we wake up earlier, we more productive, we put more hours in the day. We pull ourselves up by our bootstraps. You know, do you have the same hours in the day? That advice is actually part of the problem.

Jon Acuff : Yeah, yeah, it's part of the problem because procrastination isn't a laziness problem. So it'd be like trying to fix a broken leg with brushing your teeth. It doesn't help at all. It's actually. A lot of people have used procrastination as a solution to avoid something they're afraid of. So they're afraid to tell their mom they're not coming home for Thanksgiving this year. And procrastination goes, no worries. We don't have to do that. Also solve that problem for you. We'll wait until the last minute. You don't have to think about it for seven months. And it puts it off. So it's not a laziness problem. And so that doesn't actually fix it. So the better solution that we found over years of working on this was permission. One word permission. Everyone, you know is waiting to be the person they know God created them to be. We asked 3,000 people, a PhD professor, and I asked 3,000 people, Are you living up to your full potential? And, 96% of people said no. So everyone listening right now knows they're capable of more. They just don't know that they have permission to do it. And that's a powerful switch.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, Jon how were you inspired to write this in the first place? What gave you the idea, what did God do in your heart? Where did the vision from this come? I'm really curious to know, because often there's a personal journey that is involved when we send a message like this out into the world.

Jon Acuff : Yeah, I'm a procrastinator. you know, 0 to 34. I didn't write a single book from 34 to 50. I've now written 12. And so in the middle of my 30s, I. I was a pretty average husband. I was a pretty average dad. I had six adult jobs in eight years. I had a terrible career. And I discovered kind of God got a hold of my heart in that season and really started working on me about personal responsibility and mindset and overthinking and perfectionism and inner critic and imposter syndrome and all these different issues. And so I learned how to deal with my procrastination in that season. And so you're right. Never get stuck again is a bold promise. But I didn't make that promise on book number two. If at 36 I wrote that book, that would have been arrogance. I didn't know. But by book 11, as somebody who tends to be very distractible, I feel good about going, hey, I figured out some things. I think if you do it this way, you'll actually get stuff done. Because I have a hard time sitting still for this entire interview. Nevermind, you know, write a whole book. But I figured out how to do the things I've been putting off. I think you can too.

Dr. Jessica Peck: That is so helpful. And I know, you know, that's really my mindset and helping people. I come from a generation of brokenness and family. I've walked that road. And when you have that street credibility and you've walked through it, you're so right. That's another thing that we share in common. Actually, Jon I read that you had not a great GPA when you first started college. That was me too. So I think that's important to be transparent about that because people can look at us and say, oh, you know, he wrote a book, she's hosting a radio show. And it's like God had to do some work. And one of the things that I loved that you described in this book is you did a comparison. You compared responsible me and procrastinating me. And there's this internal tug of war that goes on that I think is really relatable. How does that play out?

Jon Acuff : Yeah, so it played out specifically for me in the morning versus the night. So morning me would wake up and go, let's have a great day, let's get after it. Let's spend time with our kids, let's be present in conversations with our wife. But I'd be groggy and kind of overwhelmed and I'd go, hey, Nightme, what happened? Why are we so out of sorts? And nightme would go, oh, we stayed up till midnight, doom scrolling. And then we ate a lasagna. And I go, you know, like, like night me, you really hurt morning me. And so I had to get both of those parts of me on the same page. And so my new definition of discipline became make tomorrow easy today. Make tomorrow easy today. What can I do today to make tomorrow easy? What's a gift I can give Friday me? It's Friday when we're recording, you know, doing this, I like to think, okay, what can Monday me do? For Friday? Me, if I want a great Friday afternoon, what are the things I can do on Monday to send that person gifts? And then I started to expand it out and said, okay, what can I do as a 50 year old that makes 70 year old Jon Acuff so grateful? What are the financial decisions? What are the relational decisions? What are the faith decisions that I can put into place now that are going to pay rewards? Every decision you make is sending a curse or a blessing into your future. So then I just started to think, how do I deliberately send as many gifts into the future as possible?

Dr. Jessica Peck: Okay, I'm writing that down. Every decision you're making is sending a curse or a blessing into the future. That's really powerful, Jon And I think that one of the biggest barriers that we always say what we've always said, you know, how are you doing? I'm fine. And now people say, I, feel like now people say I'm busy or I'm tired because there's, we just lie to ourselves and say there's not enough time in the day. But since most of the world has an iPhone, I know there's a few of you out there who are Android users and God bless you all because that is not me.

Jon Acuff : Green circle.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Exactly. The, the dreaded green box. Like, oh, no, okay, you don't have an iPhone. But every Sunday morning, Jon I get a notification of my screen time and every week it's convicting. I know I have time in my schedule. So how do we face the truth of that? Because I know that you, what you present in this is that it's not time. That's a problem. It's mindset. And I think this is empowering.

Jon Acuff : Yeah.

Every one of those services funds procrastination

So I, I think first let's give each other some grace. the Procrastination industrial complex is really good. Procrastination is the most well funded fear. You know, Hulu doesn't fund imposter syndrome. Netflix doesn't fund perfectionism. But every one of those services funds procrastination. In 2017, the CEO of Netflix, Reed Hastings, said Our number one competitor is sleep. They're worried you're going to get enough sleep. They're worried you're going to spend time with your family. They're worried you're going to get in shape. They're worried you're going to read your Bible. They're worried you're going to do anything but give their service time. And so it's very easy to get stuck in that. So I would just as a simple exercise, I'd say to somebody, pull out your screen time, find your greediest hungriest app and steal 15 minutes back. Just today you don't have to read the whole Bible today. People get really excited in January and go, I'm gonna read the whole Bible in Greek. And they go. I go, whoa, whoa, whoa. Let's just start with something simple. Take 15 minutes back from your greediest hungriest app and apply it to something you care about. A, soundtrack I use often is do more of what you love and less of what you like. I like Netflix, I like Instagram, but I love having written a book. I love having poured into a relations. And so do more of what you love and less of what you like. And you'll. You'll watch your whole mindset change.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Okay? You're already making this so easy and so accessible. And I think that's why your work resonates with so many. Because sometimes we can just feel stuck. But just these little mindsets, these little adjustments, the shifts, just taking 15 minutes back because I think about the scripture, you know, the thief comes to steal, kill, and destroy. He is stealing our time. That is our most valuable commodity and trying to keep us living distracted. So I love that. And doing more of what we like and less, more of what we love and less of what we like because we only have so much time. And now that time is being auctioned off by these platforms that you mentioned. Even, our sleep time. They want our sleep time. Everything is up for grass because it's all marketing.

Jon Acuff outlines five reasons why people procrastinate

Now, you, you outlined five reasons that you think people procrastinate. Can you give us a little overview of those? And what are we really avoiding emotionally? Because that's a tough truth.

Jon Acuff : Yeah. So the first is task. The task feels too overwhelming. I want to do this, but I don't know where to start. It's too overwhelming. The second is time. You've said it a couple of times. I'm too busy. I don't have enough time. I'm just too busy. The third is fear. I'm just afraid of what will happen when I try. The reality is I never got a one star review written about me until I published a book. Nobody when I was a copywriter for Home Depot said on Amazon, Jon Acuff is terrible at sitting in his cubicle. He's the worst one star. But when I did the actual thing, I open myself up to criticism. So sometimes people are afraid of starting and actually finishing. The fourth is history. They think, okay, I turned in a paper last second in College. So procrastination is a tool I should use. Even though they studied that again and again and again, it doesn't help you long term. And then the last one is ego, meaning I shouldn't have to do this, Somebody else should do this. This isn't my job. I can't believe I have to do this. So usually one of those five things, if you ask somebody, okay, well, why do you feel like you hold back? If they're honest, it'll come down to one of those 5m.

Dr. Jessica Peck: That is really insightful because that's what makes it relatable. The task, the time, the fear, history, or ego. Those are all ways that we rationalize procrastinating and just putting things off. And I think this is a really powerful mindset because people get really down on themselves about procrastinating because they're not clearly identifying one of those things. Like this task is just too big. Or, you know, maybe I feel like I don't have the time or I'm afraid of what's going to happen or been successful in the past or somebody else should be doing this. We don't stop and do that. We start an inner, narrative that really is very shame based, saying, like, why can't I get it together? Why am I always like this? Why do I always leave this to the last minute? And then why am I lazy? And we start generalizing that into character based shame. How do we stop that?

Jon Acuff : Well, I mean, first you label it for what it is. You're right. It's character based shame. I would just. Here's that really easy way. If you find an absolute, it's usually a broken soundtrack. Meaning I'm always late. No, you're not. That always is an absolute. You're not always late. Or, like teenagers, I'll tell parents to have teens. If you hear them say, I'm the only one who doesn't have the new iPhone. Everyone got invited to the prom except me. I'll never pass geometry. Only everyone and never are absolutes. And that usually means they're not true. So you just learn to overhear yourself. Self awareness is learning how to overhear yourself.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Oh, my goodness. I'm overhearing myself. Jon because I have overshot the break. We're at our first break. I'm really very much in up to my neck in this conversation. I'm invested. I want to know more. I know our listeners do too. Hang on. We'll be right back with more from Jon Acuff.

An ultrasound provided by preborn helped Candace hear her baby's heartbeat

After the break,

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Rescue by Jordan St. Cyr: oh, I've been desperate cried those loud prayers like Job on his knees saying lord, I need more than a little, help. I've been surrounded felt fear on all sides like Daniel and the lions I know when I fight I don't fight by myself When I needed rescue Jesus, you came through oh, in my hardest season your promise held true and every time I've given in Lord, you've proven again that you're still my savior now Jesus, you came through when I needed rescue.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Welcome back friends. That is procrastinate. That is not procrastination. That is rescue by Jordan St. Cyr. And we're talking about procrastination today. And that may be what you feel like you need to be rescued from procrastination. We all know that person in our lives. A lot of times we are that person in our lives who procrastinates. And I'm talking with award winning author, New York Times bestselling author, Jon Acuff. Today he has a new book coming out called Procrastination Proof. Never get stuck Again. And we're talking about a shift in mindset that if procrastination isn't about willpower, then beating it is not going to come from just trying harder. I'm going to try harder to not procrastinate. It comes from thinking differently. And that's where John's framework begins. Because when we look at productivity systems, they are really good at doing one thing. Piling on pressure. Do more, be better, produce more, push harder, be more successful. But Jon is really flipping that idea on its head and is introducing something radically different. Permission. Permission to start, even though it's imperfect. Permission to move forward. Permission to not be stuck in that rut anymore. And Jon right before the break, you were in the middle of giving some really good advice on how we use this, you know, shaming language for ourselves. And we start to take this one struggle that we have in one area of our life, and we generalize it to our character. And instead of believing it's something that we do, we believe it's something who we are. And you were just in the middle of giving some great advice about that.

Jon: Mindset matters because what you think turns into actions

So I want to give it back to you so that we can pick it up where we left off.

Jon Acuff : Yeah, well, and here's why it's so important, why mindset matters. Well, one God talks about it more than we do. you talk about taking every thought captive, renewing your mind, thinking what's true and noble and beautiful. And so we have a God who puts a lot of emphasis on our thoughts. And the way mindset works, it's really, really practical. It's really, really simple. Your thoughts turn into actions, your action turn into results. The thing you think becomes the thing you do becomes the thing you get. And all too often, we over focus on the thing we want, but we never change those thoughts, so we never actually get the results. And so what I was talking about before the break is learning to recognize how you're thinking. And I'm going to give your audience the best, easiest way to recognize what you really think about yourself. It's so easy. It only has two steps. Number one, write down a goal. And it can be any goal. It can be, I want to lose 10 pounds. It can be, I want to go back to school. It can be, I want to be a better mom. I want to, you know, run a 5K. Write down a goal, second step. Listen to your first thoughts about that goal. Listen to your reaction to that goal. Because every reaction is an education. Are your first thoughts positive? You should do that. You're going to be a great mom at that. People are going to follow you as you lead. Your book's going to read great. Or are they negative? Who are you to think you can do that? You're too old for that. You're too young for that. God's not going to be in that. Listen to your first thoughts, and if they're negative, they might be something you need to deal with.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, you say that it's a permission problem. And I'm thinking about even writing down that goal. I know, Jon that there are people who are listening who won't even give themselves permission to speak that goal out loud. They won't go so far as to Write it down even. Because they're already thinking. Some of those barriers that you've already brought up and some of that negative thinking, like, you'll never do that. You can't tell people you're going to do that. You're. You're not capable, like you could never reach that. You can never do that. But the people who are doing those things, who are, you know, setting a vision and boldly pursuing it, like you said, you're going to have setbacks, you're going to get one star reviews, you're going to fail. You're going to put yourself out there. How. Explain this permission thing. How do we even give ourselves permission to start to write down that vision or goal?

Jon Acuff : Well, first of all, you recognize that permission used to matter a lot. When we were young. We don't talk about that word as an adult, which is a mistake. But when you were a kid, a permission slip was a passport. You got to join the soccer team and go on a field trip and come to school late or get out early. And so if you start to look at the word permission, you start to see it in every great story. Think about Lord of the Rings. Gandalf gave it to Frodo. Gandalf said, hey, you have permission to be more than a hobbit. You have permission to save the whole world. you think about Cinderella. The, the fairy godmother gave it to Cinderella. Hey, you're more than this. And you see that over and over in scripture. Think about all the change. Think about Gideon. God. God approaches Gideon, goes, hey, mighty warrior. And he's hiding in a hole and goes, me, I'm the low, like you. Like, think about Moses. Hey, murderer in the desert. He's always going, no, I see something you don't see in yourself. And so that's what I mean by permission. And then the, the fun thing is there's really a thousand probably different permissions, but there's four that matter the most. And if you do them in this order, it's almost impossible to not be successful at what you put your hand to. And the permissions are permission to dream, permission to plan, permission to do, and permission to review. So in essence, you say, what do I want to do? What do I feel called to do? Where is God leading me? The second one, permission to plan. How will I do it? What are the steps? Let me put together a plan. The third is, am I doing it? Am I getting my hands dirty? And the fourth is, did it work? Am I headed in the right direction? Usually if somebody's stuck. And I sit down with, have coffee with them. I can find that one of those permissions is missing. They've got a dream to write a book. They might even planned it. And God has said to them with a megaphone, it's time to write your story. But they're not actually spending time doing it. And so I can get them and like, hey, it's, it's time to do it. And we're going to write chapter two, not chapter one, because chapter one has a lot of pressure.

Usually one of those four permissions is missing in somebody's life

We're going to jump into the middle. That's an interesting trick to get started. So usually one of those four permissions is missing in somebody's life and if I can kind of nudge on it, they go, oh, you're right. It's time for me to actually learn how to dream again with God. We have a God who dreams bigger than us. And so sometimes I have to kind of reawaken that dream in somebody. So that's. Those are the four permissions.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Let's take a slower walk through each of those.

Let's talk a little bit about dreaming because you mentioned some biblical figures

Let's talk a little bit about dreaming because you mentioned some biblical figures and I'm thinking about Joseph, you know, telling his brothers about his dreams, which did not go over so well. Right. We don't like your dream, but that was a, God given dream. And, and God does put it in our heart to dream. And so I want to talk about what are some of the barriers that we have? I'm sure in your own story, Jon you talked about, you know, the, the, what was that barrier? Where did you finally cross over? You kind of described this before and after period in your life and it's really before dreaming and after dreaming. What did that look like for you and how can it help us? Us?

Jon Acuff : Well, the biggest. I remember where I was, I was in Atlanta and I said to God, I only know how to cry and mourn with you. I had a very like, I only know how to take my worst problems to you. God, I don't know how to dance and celebrate. And I very clearly remember him saying, well, then I need to just give you more reasons to dance, like more reasons to celebrate. So I think sometimes it's our view of God. I saw somebody at Costco in a shirt and it said, God's in a good mood. And that stopped me in my tracks. And I thought, oh, do I believe that or do I, you know, like, do I? And then you start to read the Bible and you go, oh my gosh, we have a God. The prodigal son story. We have a God who fixes problems with parties. That's not the way any of the rest of life works. If you have a fight with your spouse like a real argument, not one of those fake ones where the sun doesn't go down. Like Jesus, by the way, is okay with you going to bed and arguing in the morning. Nobody gets smarter and more loving at 3am the later you stay up, he's fine with you pausing and go, hey, we're going to do this over coffee at 9am I love you. This is what we're going to do. If you have a fight with your spouse, she doesn't get you a bounce house, she doesn't throw you a party. So I just think some of it is the view we take to God of is he as generous as he really is in our mind, is he as joyful as he really is? And so I think that's part of what happened with me with dreaming was going, okay, God, I want to know who you really are and how generous and how dream filled. And you know, we're the only religion in the world that doesn't say, stop desiring. Most world religions say, cut off your attachment. You shouldn't want things like learn to be stoic. And our God goes, I don't think you're dreaming big enough. Like I, I see you in a bigger way than you even see yourself. And so that's where God got a hold of my own heart. For dreaming was this very pale 2D version of God I had that was not accurate.

Dr. Jessica Peck: I can so relate to that. And I think you really have to move to a place where you accept the sovereignty of God. I remember seeing hearing the song the Goodness of God for the first time, but by CC Wines. There's other artists who have sung it, but there, was one line that's, that stopped me in my tracks. Jon And I was singing, you know, I was singing along and you get to that part where it says, all my life you have been faithful. And I thought, wait, do I really believe that? Because I just said it like I believed it. But I don't know if I believe that. Do I believe in every part of my life that God has been faithful? And that is really where I started shifting my mindset to really accept the fact that we have a God who loves to make beauty from ashes, ashes, who loves to redeem, to restore, to renew. We have a God who gives good gifts to his children. We have a God who can do exceedingly, abundantly, more than all we can ask or imagine. I don't know about you, Jon I can imagine a lot.

Jon Acuff : Sure. Yeah. And you've done a lot. And that for me, it's part of that vision of seeing God. You know, the other verse I think of is, all things work together for the good. Not the ones I understand, not the ones that make sense to me.

Dr. Jessica Peck: All.

Jon Acuff : And so, like, or every great, gift comes from God. This morning, I'm in Indiana at a hotel. The treadmill didn't work at first. I was like, oh, man. And then I was like, I'll run outside. And probably a tenth of a mile from my hotel was a river trail that wound through the woods in a beautiful way. And I just thought, that's so God. It's so God to go. Like, I know you think the treadmill was the thing that was a boring, small fitness center treadmill at a hotel. Come out here and experience this. And I just laughed with him. And part of learning to, like, pray without ceasing is to recognize God in those small moments. So one of my prayers from a mindset perspective is, I'd love to see your hand today. I'd love to see your hand today. And then having the eyesight to go, oh, man. He took me from a broken treadmill to a forest where I got to run. And it was gorgeous. Like, God, thanks for that. Versus just looking for the big moments or the dramatic moments. But seeing him in the little fabric of the day, too, and recognizing and celebrating that.

Dr. Jessica Peck: That reminds me of Psalm 84, 11. I speak this over my family all the time. The Lord God is a son and a shield. He gives grace and glory. No good thing does he withhold from those who walk uprightly, Even those that you think are good. You think, okay, God, this is a good thing. This is a relationship restoration. This is a good career move for my family. Like, why would you withhold this? But then that's when you recognize, I see from those who walk uprightly. And that's what you did, Jon You. You described that shift that you had. And when you were talking with the Lord, saying, okay, God, I can only grieve and mourn and despair with you. I'm going to be intentional about walking forward and celebrating. You said, set a plan to do it. And plans are biblical, too. I mean, when we look at, through the Old Testament, God's plan that he gave David for the. For to rebuild the temple, that was then, you know, it was carried forward by Solomon. I mean, there are all kinds of plans, but we also know Many are man's plan. Many are, plans in man's heart. But is the Lord who directs his steps, how do we step forward in that confidence and actually make a plan, move our dream to action?

Jon Acuff : Yeah, well, I mean the challenge is dreaming runs on optimism and planning runs on realism, and people get stuck in that gap. Sometimes when you dream, you have wild optimism. Anything's possible. But when you plan, you have to be specific. You have to say, okay, I need to do this. So an easy way to plan is something like this. I love this question. Instead of saying, what do I need to do to be a better mom or a better leader? That stirs up shame. If you ask that question, you start to think about all the ways you're inadequate. You go, well, here's what I don't do well, or I don't have this kind of resources. The question I like to ask is, what would a great leader do? Because now you're brainstorming. The other question stirs up identity. This one stirs up ideation. Now you're just brainstorming. I'm not saying I'm that person right now because maybe I'm not, but what would a great leader do? And then you just write down 5 to 10 actions they might take. They, they might be great at follow up. They might, you know, a, great parent might, you know, be great at connecting with other parents for advice. Okay, like, and you write down that, you write down a list and all of a sudden you'll realize, wow, I have some things I can do next. I don't have a 10 year plan. I think one of the lies of the enemy is you have to know exactly where you're going before you start. And what I've learned with God over the years is every time I prayed for a six month map, he wouldn't give it to me. And I would say, God, if you'll just show me what the next six months to do, I'll do it. Because he knew that I would eventually worship the map, not the map maker. I would hold on and idolize the map. And he loves me too much for that to happen. He loves a relationship, so he tends to get give me a day at a time, two days at a time. Maybe it's a mana kind of relationship. So even as I plan, I go, okay, God, here's what I would love to accomplish over the next five years. And sometimes some of those things happen. But a lot of times he takes me in a completely different place, but I am in the planning. One of My favorite parables is with the talents, where there's five assigned, two assigned to one assigned. And, what's interesting about that is they get the talents and it doesn't say. And they spent the next six months prior to brain. They immediately put them to. They immediately got to work, which meant they were already doing something. They had a plan. And so I always try to go, okay, how do I be deliberate about the plan so that when God gives me an opportunity, I can execute it so that, like, you're not on this radio show by accident. Like, you weren't. You already had. You were getting a degree long before this show existed. And then when God brought this opportunity, guess what? You had a credentialed background that allowed you to pour into people in a special way. But I guarantee back when you were doing med school, you didn't go, but I have a radio show one day. That's probably the next step for this. And, and. But you had a plan to get through medical school that wasn't accidental. And so it's a both and where God works the miracles that you don't see coming. But he also loves the planning and the strategy. He's a God of order.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Yeah, Jon I didn't even have a plan to go to nursing school. Like, that was not even in the plan. And I can see God at work. And one of the important things to me is learning to know God's voice. And you really have. Have really, talked about that and talked about hearing God having this ongoing con conversation with the Lord. And that is what I had to learn. And there were so many times, Jon where he would tell me, you know, do this step here, go here, close this door, open this door. You know, take this opportunity. And I would be like, why? I don't even want to do that. And Sometimes it was 10 years later that actually happened to me. The first day I walked into a new job that I had, somebody came up to me and said, the Lord just put it on my heart to ask you to go to any India with me. But here's the thing. I'm looking for someone with palliative care experience, which is a specific nursing discipline. And I thought, oh, that's the student club that I took on kicking and screaming. I did not want to do. But I have several years of experience, and that changed my heart and reshaped how I dreamed about the future. So much more to talk about. We've only talked about dream and plan. I still want to ask some more questions about do and review. We'll be right back with more from Jon Acuff. Don't put off coming back after the break. Meet us right here. We'll be right back.

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Come To Jesus by Kristian Stanfill: If you bought what they sold you just to find out the world's only good at letting you down. Come to Jesus. If the well that you draw from keeps running dry and the water you're drinking won't satisfy Come to Jesus, Come to Jesus there's room for us all at the foot of the cross where perfect love paid every prodigals cost the Savior is waiting with arms open wide so leave what's behind you behind. Come to Jesus Come to Jesus.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Welcome back, friends. That is Come to Jesus by Kristian Stanfill. And that's really what we're talking about today. Do you struggle with procrastination and you just think, okay, I can't struggle with this anymore. Well, listen, I'm talking to New York Times best selling author today, Jon Acuff. If you're listening in on Friday and thinking, Jessica, why aren't you talking about healthy habits? Don't worry, I'm going to double up on that next week. Week. But we had something that we couldn't put off and that was this conversation. Jon has written a new book. It just released April 14th. It's called procrastination Proof. Never get stuck Again. And you can get your copy now. So don't put it in your cart and think, I'm gonna buy this later. Usually I say add to cart is not a good substitute for therapy, but this may be just exactly the kind of help and hope that you need. And I've already been so fascinated in Talking with Jon about that procrastination, the fact that procrastination is not a character trait, a character flaw that you have, it's just a poor coping mechanism that you need a new mindset for. And giving yourself permission might be the real first step towards momentum, where you feel stuck. And we've just been talking about these four steps. Jon you've talked about dreaming and planning. I want to go back to do and review. Because I feel like between that plan and do do, it's kind of like that Indiana Jones moment, you know, where I don't remember which one of the movies, but where he has to step out and take that leap of faith. You know, it's right there. Like, you've done all these plans, you have the dreams. It's like sometimes eventually you're just gonna have to step out and make that leap of faith. What does DO look like?

Jon Acuff : Well, you're right. It feels like a leap of faith, but it doesn't have to be. I always say, like, make it easy on yourself. Like, I, you know, a simple soundtrack I tell people all the time is, do hard things in beautiful places. Places, meaning if you're gonna go work on your taxes, bring a binder to your favorite coffee shop, like, walk around a beautiful part in your town. If you're trying to get your steps in, like, make it easy. And so one of the things that people get stuck on is they commit to something in too big of a way. We say things like, go big or go home. And the reality is most people go home. So I'm kind of the opposite of that. Where I go, let's just audition this goal. Let's audition it. Let's not commit to it. Let's seven days and then see if we can. We like it 10 days, see if we like it 30 days and see if we like it, we end up going like, One of the reasons NewSong Year's resolutions fail is that we commit to do something for a year we've never done for a day. That's like marrying somebody you just met at speed dating, versus going, you know, for the next 10 days, I'm going to try this thing and see if it feels like something I want to do more of, see if I commit to it. But sometimes we get really excited and we try to do too much at a time. And so for me, a lot of times, I'm that person going, let's see if we can do it in a small way and actually do it. And then let's not do it Alone. Like, we're built for community. We are built for community. So even just an easy way to do is I dare you to ask the person you know who's really good at that for a little bit of help. Meaning if you're trying to get in shape, ask your friend who's really good at exercise for some help. And guess what? People who are good at something love talking about it. Like, have you ever met somebody who does CrossFit? They will tell you about it. So if you said to another mom, you seem like you've got a really good schedule and you're all like, like, you seem like you've got like, can you tell me one of your secrets? They won't go, no, I hate talking about things I'm good at. They will 100% go, oh, here's an app I use. Or here's a big family calendar we use. So it doesn't have to be hard. You don't have to make doing monumental because then you get stuck.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, you know, you reminded me, Jon of a time that I was really trying to get more physically fit because I'm not athletically gifted. My biggest muscle is my brain. Like, that's, that's where I'm going to lean into. And so I was miserable in this class, you know, and, and I'm struggling through it. And they're like, okay, we're going to partner you with somebody who's like, on your level. And I'm with this, like, no offense to anybody out there, but you know, this like 70 year old grandpa. And I'm thinking, okay. And the trainer came over and she whispered to me, she said, it gets fun when you get good at it. And I remembered that and thought, yeah, that's what it is. So talking with somebody who gets good at it. And I think about even you know, when I felt like the Lord put the dream on my heart to write a book, I didn't say, like, okay, I'm going to write a book. I thought, okay, I'm going to join this author's group, this aspiring authors group, and I'm actually going to walk, in the room and say, I kind of am thinking about maybe, you know, I mean, maybe, I'm not sure, like, maybe writing a book and doing it. So I think that makes it much more accessible. And then the next step is review. So what is, how does review come in?

Jon Acuff : Well, review. Here's the problem. People don't like to review. They hate data. You have, you're in med, you're in healthcare. Yeah, You've heard people say, I didn't want to find out I was sick, so I didn't go to the doctor, I didn't go see my nurse. And instead of reviewing, they will get sicker. And so the first time I saw this happen, we were at a restaurant and everybody was going to get a big meal. We're in NewSong York City and we open up the menus and they had put the calories next to the men, the meals. And everybody's order changed. Everybody changed from a big hamburger with like, a knife in it. Like, I'll take a side salad with grilled chicken and, put the dressing on the side, not on the side of the plate, the side of the restaurant. I'll just look across the way at salad dressing. And the reality is the calories were there whether I knew them or not. So here's the soundtrack I'd give you for review. Data kills denial, which prevents disaster. Data kills denial, which prevents disaster. All that data is trying to tell you. All that review is trying to tell you is like, hey, here's where you're headed. And you need to be careful about that. You sometimes will see a marriage and you'll go, it ended without any signs. But the reality is, if they had done a check in, if they had sat down with their spouse and go like, hey, I feel like we're drifting a little bit. It's only like three inches apart. But like, am I wrong about that? Can we go on a walk? Can we do a vacation together? Like, but they don't ever do a review. And you look up and it's 20 years and there's, there's a huge chasm for them. And so all the review is, is you kind of pause and go, am I headed in the direction I want to go? Are the decisions I'm making, am I seeing the kind of results? You know, like I. A parenting tip that I give people all the time, I'll say, if you want a kind 16 year old, give a 6 year old kindness and then give them 10 years to probably practice. You want a kind 16 year old, teach a 6 year old kindness, give them 10 years to practice. So you're just doing reviews like at a six, you know, when I've got a six year old, I'm not doing, you know, the big lessons maybe, but I am teaching them a little about kindness. I am teaching them a little about truth. And we're kind of reviewing that along the way versus at 16, going, you know, I've got this son who's in a hoodie of solitude constantly and won't talk to us. What happened? And what happened is that four, you made decisions. At six, you made decisions. You can certainly, you know, work toward that at 16, 18, 25. I don't mean to say it's over, but I just think if we'll review along the way, it's really easy to end up where you want to go.

Dr. Jessica Peck: The hoodie of solitude speaks to me. I've had conversations. I remember one specific conversation with my teenage son where he kept pulling his drawstring tighter and tighter. I was just talking with his nose, like that was all that was. That was there. It's so true.

You've identified four traps that can trap people in life

But, you know, when we look at these, there are some traps that we can. That we have. And you've outlined four trappers that traps that you call dreamer, perfectionist, hustler, analyst. Give us a preview. And I think people should go out and get this book and really dive in. But what is the preview of those four traps that really trip us up?

Jon Acuff : Yeah, well, we, we made a pretty quick assessment tool, johnacoff.com/quiz so if you want to figure out which one of these you are. jonacuff.com/quiz but dreamers get stuck dreaming. They have a thousand ideas and zero actions. They have no. They have a million dreams. But they never move to planning. Perfectionists get stuck planning. Perfectionists will say, I'm going to change the world just as soon as the plan is perfect. As soon as I have all the information, as soon as you know, as soon as I'm ready. And let me just tell you right now, ready is a myth. You're never ready to be a parent. You never like before you have a kid. You don't go, yeah, I figured out parenting. I'm ready to do this. Like, I, like I figured out how to run a business. So. But perfectionist gets stuck there. Hustlers get stuck doing, meaning they have a dream and they skip plan and they just hair off down the path and they start doing and doing and doing and doing, doing. You know, you're a hustler. If you've ever had to rebuild a piece of IKEA furniture because you didn't read the instructions and you're like, whatever, Sweden. I don't need your little stick figure instructions. I can do this. And then halfway in, like one part of it's upside down, you go, oh. And then analysts, they're actually good at reviewing. They just tend to review mistakes from the past and predict failure in the future. So what they say is things like, that's not how we do things. Things here. Or I tried that before and it didn't work. And they're stuck. And they're. They're not playing devil's advocate at that point. They are devil's advocate and they're having a hard time not getting stuck in kind of negativity. The negativity that can happen when you only review the mistakes in your life.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, you know, Jon it's funny because I'm actually in studio sitting across from my producer. I know exactly which one she is because she took it as a personal wound when you started saying it, saying, that is me. That is me. And that's the thing, that's the great thing about your writing is that we can see ourselves in it. It's so relatable. I'm definitely the perfectionist. I will out myself right there. I'm the strategic thinker, the strategic planner. And I think, okay, I just, everything has to be perfect before I can move forward. But I find hope in the fact that you've identified these four traps because that tells me that you feel pretty confident about helping people get out of them.

Jon Acuff : Oh, a hundred percent. I mean, let's just take yours, for instance.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Okay. Yeah.

Jon Acuff : One of my favorite perfection.

Dr. Jessica Peck: I'll take some personal therapy right here. Yeah, just give it to me.

Jon Acuff : Let's do it.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Okay.

Jon Acuff : One of my favorite soundtracks for people that get stuck there is the growing is in the going. The growing is in the going. You grow along the way. Like it's the, you know, God saying to Abram, go to the land. I will show you. You're going to grow along the way. So as a perfectionist, what you need to lean on is I need enough information, not all the information. You get enough information to make a wise decision, and then you do it, and then you iterate and you do do it again. With the new information, you'll never have all the information. You work in healthcare, you'll never have all the info. There's too much info moving too quickly. You get to enough info and you make a decision. So for perfectionists, the other soundtrack that give you is some beats none, some beats none. Meaning perfectionists have two speeds. All or nothing. All or nothing. I'll meet perfectionist that'll say, Jon I want to walk three miles a day every day for the next month. But today only had time for two miles. So I'm not going to to do any. And I'll go, you know, two is infinitely more than none. But a perfectionist would rather get a zero than a C minus. If they can't do it perfectly, they won't even start. And so those are kind of ways I'll nudge people. And the last one I'd say to perfectionist is 90% perfect and shared with the world changes 100% more lives than 100% perfect and stuck in your laptop or stuck in your head. And so 90% perfect and shared with the world changes 100% more lives than 100% perfect and stuck in your head or stuck in your laptop. And so that's not easy by any means, but it is possible, it is doable and you learn along the way.

Dr. Jessica Peck: You know, Jon I feel like you just like showed me a card deck and said, okay, pick your card and don't tell me what it is. And then you just read everything in my mind. man, you nailed it. And I know that there's other perfectionists out there thinking even to the point where, you know, when I started to do national organizational leadership, I took galv's strength finders.

You provide hope in overcoming unhealthy coping mechanisms when procrastinating

My number two strength was input. Like I want all the information. And so I'm thinking about that. You just really nailed it there. And I find hope. And seeing that there's a lot of people who feel really bad about who they're telling themselves they are when they procrastinate, when really you're providing hope and telling them what they can do to not procrastinate. And we can have hope in overcoming unhealthy coping mechanisms. But it takes, it takes dreaming, it takes planning, it takes doing, and it takes rebirth. Reviewing.

Jon Acuff has written a book on procrastination called Procrastination Proof

What do you hope that people are going to get from reading your book, John? What is, what is your dream for that?

Jon Acuff : Well, I hope they feel seen. I mean even the, the format of the book is 71 short chapters. Why did I do that? Because when I was researching it, I kept reading 300 page books on procrastination. I thought no procrastinator is going to read this. I like, I like when I see a Kindle and it says 72 minutes left in the chapter, I groan. And so I know as a former procrastinator, I love a win. When I get to the end of a chapter, I feel like I did something. I get a little bit of dopamine hit. So even the format of the book says to you, hey, this is going to be an easy thing for you to process through. Like you're going like, other books are Jane Goodall writing about monkeys. I'm a monkey writing for other monkeys. So my hope is that they feel seen, they feel encouraged and they have a sense of if Jon can do it, what can I do? Especially when you add times God. Like, let's just be very clear about that. If we truly believe we have access to the Creator of all space and time, imagine the creativity we should have. Like we have, we know the guy who made the Rockies. I love when we discover a jellyfish in the ocean that's existed for thousands of years and it's pink and polka dotted and we wouldn't even see it. That was just for God's delight. If we know that God and have a personal relationship with him, then like, watch out what you can do. And so I hope it's a, a framework people can use in their life in a million different ways.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, Jon I agree with you so much. When we look at if we really believe this, if we believe these inherent truths about God, we believe that he created the world and all its splendor, we believe that he sent his son to die for our sins and then he rose again and then he's sitting at the very right hand of God. But we think, yeah, but this procrastination thing, that's a lost cause. Like that is, that is not a good mindset. And that is something where we have allowed the thief to come in, the, the enemy to come in and steal and kill and destroy. And you have come to give us hope, just like Jesus came to give us life. And I'm so grateful that your faith has informed this work that you have put out into the world. And I encourage you you to get a copy of the book. It's called Procrastination Proof. Never get stuck again. Jon thank you so much for helping us. Reminding us that procrastination isn't proof that we're failing. It's just maybe a sign that we're trying to solve the wrong problem. And maybe the goal isn't to become more disciplined. It's to give yourself permission to begin. And as you think and dream about that beginning. And I hope that you are, are, I do, as always pray that the Lord will bless you and keep you and make his face to shine upon you and be gracious to you. And I hope that you will be gracious to yourself. Thanks so much for joining us. Like I said, next Friday we will double up on healthy habits. You can listen to any Friday show and join us again. I'll see you right back here on Monday.

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Jeff Chamblee: opinions expressed in this broadcast may not necessarily reflect those of the American Family association or American Family Radio.

Jon Acuff, NY Times Best-Selling Author, talks with Jessica about four permissions that work together to make us "procrastination proof"

https://jonacuff.com/