We would like to take a moment to thank our sponsor, PreBorn
Dr. Jessica Peck: We would like to take a moment to thank our sponsor, PreBorn. When a mother meets her baby on ultrasound and hears their heartbeat, it's a divine connection. And the majority of the time she will choose life. But they can't do it without our help. Preborn needs us, the pro life community, to come alongside them. One ultrasound is just $28. To donate, dial pound 250 and say the keyword baby or visit preborn.com/AFR what if one moment could change a life forever? Every day, mothers facing unplanned pregnancies walk into PreBorn Network clinics searching for hope. Through a free ultrasound, they meet their baby for the very first time. And when they see that tiny life and hear that heartbeat, everything can change.
Dan Steiner: Hey friend. Dan Steiner, president at PreBorn here with a heartfelt thank you. Because you know what? This year so far, your partnership with PreBorn has saved over 50,000 babies and moms from abortion. And it wouldn't have happened without you. What you are doing together with PreBorn is truly changing generations. Every tax- deductible dollar that you give is used to rescue babies lives and lead moms to Jesus Christ. So far this year alone, We've seen over 8,000 women give their hearts to Christ. All because you help with an ultrasound scan for $28 or a machine for $15,000. So thank you. Your caring help saves lives both for earth and and for eternity. God bless you.
Dr. Jessica Peck: And there's even more to celebrate. This year alone, more than 5,100 women have made decisions for Christ through the ministry of PreBorn. That's because your generosity saves lives for both earth and eternity. Right now, more mothers are waiting for that life changing moment. $28 helps to provide one life. Saving ultrasound 140 helps rescue five babies. To donate to pound 250 and say the keyword baby, that's pound 250 baby or visit preborn.com/AFR that's preborn.com/AFR Every gift is tax- deductible. Hello and welcome to the doctor nursemama show prescribing Hope for Healthy Families here on American Family Radio. Here's your host, professor, pediatric nurse practitioner and mom of four, Dr. Jessica Peck.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Well hey there friends and welcome to my favorite time of day. I love getting to spend time with you prescribing Hope for Healthy families. Listen, today I am going to tell you about an incredible resource. You might have heard about it, you might have never heard about it, you might have heard about it and think, yeah, I've heard that. But I'm not Sure. What it does. You might have heard about it and thought, oh yeah, I've heard of that. I've actually been convicted to go, but I haven't taken that step forward. Or you might have heard and maybe you think you want to recommend it to a friend. What am I talking about? Well, hang with me and I'll tell you. Because the truth is we live in a culture that is increasingly comfortable and talking about mental health and trauma and things like addiction and emotional pain. We talk about those things all the time here on this show. But despite greater awareness, there are a lot of people who continue to suffer in silence. They know they have an issue, but reaching out for help, there's a lot of fear involved. What if that is not a, resource that's going to be congruent with my faith? What if, what if, you know, somebody finds out and thinks something different of me? And behind all of those things that we scroll on social media, the smiling family pictures we're about to come up to matching PJ season and Sunday morning church services, or just those carefully curated best 12 seconds of their week, behind those people are struggling with things they don't know how to talk about. I wrote about this in my book Behind Closed Doors, a guide to help parents and teens navigate life's toughest issues. Because if you go into my waiting room where I'm seeing kids, you know, as a pediatric clinician, there's families out there and they don't know that family that looks so perfect on the outside is coming to see me because of a severe mental health concern, or they're going through a divorce or there's an addiction or they're self harming. We get, we really get deceived by some of those facades that are there. And there are things in every family like addiction and anxiety and anger and grief, shame, codependency, childhood trauma, marital brokenness, family dysfunction. These things are all what we have come to know living in a broken world. And the overwhelming fear is that if anyone really knew what was going on behind closed doors, they might think differently about us. And for families, these struggles rarely remain isolated to one person. It impacts the whole family. When a parent is battling addiction, when a marriage is fractured by a betrayal, when a child grows up navigating unpredictable environmental, environmental emotions, those effects aren't just limited to that one person. They go across relationships and even down through generations. I know that's certainly been my personal experience as I've shared with you. And sometimes the greatest obstacle to healing isn't the Struggle itself. It's the shame that convinces us that we have to hide it. And as Christians, we believe that Jesus Christ offers, offers forgiveness, redemption, restoration and freedom. But how do we translate those beautiful biblical promises into practical steps towards a, healthy approach to healing? How do we create churches where hurting people can be honest about their struggles? How do we help families break those unhealthy patterns rather than just hiding them and passing them down generation to generation? Well, that's where we come to today that
I want to tell you about an extraordinary ministry called Celebrate Recovery
I want to tell you about an extraordinary ministry called Celebrate Recovery. Now, some of you are saying, ah, that's what it is. Well, if you don't know, it's a Christ centered recovery ministry built around biblical principles and the belief that no one should have to navigate their hurts, habits and hang ups alone. And while many people associate recovery just with substance addiction, Celebrate Recovery has a much broader lens than that. It invites people struggling with a wide variety of life's challenges to pursue healing through Jesus Christ and supportive community. My guest today is Rodney Holmstrom. Now, he has dedicated more than two decades of his life to helping people and families discover healing and freedom and restoration through celebrate recovery. For 21 years, he served as the congregational leader and director of Celebrate Recovery at Fellowship Bible Church in Northwest Arkansas. He has helped lead a ministry serving thousands. You heard me say that. Thousands of people seeking hope and healing. What you take from that is that you are not alone. You are not the exception. This is often a burden we carry in a broken world. And in addition to his ministry leadership, Rodney brings significant clinical expertise to this conversation. He holds dual master's degrees in marriage and family therapy and clinical mental health. And he's a licensed professional counselor. He serves as the director of the Fellowship Counseling and Care Net Center. Together with his wife Carol, Rodney has a heart for helping hurting people experience the transforming love of Jesus Christ. They have two grown kids and they're the proud grandparents of three. Rodney, I've been looking forward to this conversation for a really long time, and I'm so glad that you're here today. Thank you so much for joining us.
Rodney Holmstrom: Oh, I'm, I'm so pumped. This is a highlight, highlight of my week. I've been looking forward to this time.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, I'm, you know, help and healing is a beautiful thing, but it's not when people don't know about it. And so that's what I want to do today, today. But let's start with your story, because your story is important too. You know, you spent more than 20 years pouring your life into this. Tell us how the Lord led you there. How did you come to know the Lord? How did he lead you into this ministry? What do you see God doing today?
Rodney Holmstrom: Yeah, thanks for asking. I always love sharing parts of my story. I'm, I, I'm pretty broken guy, come from a pretty broken home, multiple. When I went through grad school, I kind of had to lean into this. It's kind of expensive therapy going through grad school. But as I was leaning into it, I was able to discover I had multiple stepfathers. I don't know how many of them were legally married to my mom, but 10 stepfathers and a biological dad. And with that common theme, brokenness, addictions, unresolved past hurts, which is the kind of where we lean into with celebrate recovery. That led to some unhealthy coping strategies that caused havoc on me and my brothers and my mom and just a very dysfunctional functional home. And, and with that, ah, at a very young age, unfortunately, because of the chaos happening outside of me, I was trying to find some kind of survival and peace inside of me and I turned to substance abuse. At, 10 years old, I started using my first substance and it was my way of numbing out the chaos, happening around me. And so early on I became an addict. My mom, she has her own story of dysfunction from her past and, and she, that as long as I was doing it with her and in front of her, that it was somehow safe. And it doesn't make sense. But when you know her full story, it makes a lot of sense. And so that began the spinning out of my addiction, my addictive path. And, and I stayed stuck in that for a good while and, and just trying to survive. I put too many things in my body, to try to stay alive that was literally killing me. And, and that led to some, some really unhealthy relationships, you know, people, places and things in my life that, that really caused havoc on my life. And, and as I got into my later years,
I was actually taken into a home by my music teacher because he, he discovered that I was homeless
I actually was taken into a home by my music teacher because he, he discovered that I was homeless. He took me in. I, learned that I had some musical gifts that I didn't know I had. And, and he helped me to work, through to get a music scholarship. Got me thinking about, as I got into church and, and found Christ. They gave me a place to live. They gave me a platform to be able to get into church. And for the first time, I started having hope for my life because I, I literally my whole Life thought because I'd seen it in my family system, I believed I was going to die young and this is my destiny. And, and what this man, Mr. Taylor. Mr. And Mrs. Taylor, that took me in. Sweet, sweet couple. Mr. Taylor has since passed away, but he died of Cove during the pandemic. But they got me thinking that there's something bigger. Number one, they pointed me to Jesus Christ and I received Christ. And that began the trajectory of maybe life can be different for me. And, and as I became a believer and getting into the. The church there, just a small little Baptist church there in, In Oklahoma, God began to really work on my heart and, and my life changed in, in, in drastic ways. What I didn't know until getting into college, where I met my wife, I was still holding on to. While I wasn't using anymore and drinking and drugging and all that stuff, it was the underlying stuff that was still simmering. So any, any indication that you, would reject me or go away from me. As I'd seen many men in my life, ab mom didn't know how to be present with me emotionally. So anything that smelled like that old story, I would go back to my default, of trying to control it under my own power while I didn't go to drinking and drugging work. I threw myself into work to gain some kind of acceptance. And this caused havoc in my relationship. I became a workaholic. And early in my marriage, my wife was about spent on that. She was spiritually poor and lonely and just, you know, this isn't what I signed up for. And we actually separated for a season. by the grace of God, she brought us back together. We've been married 34 years now, but, but we walk through that season. But when I was introduced to Celebrate Recovery as adults in my marriage, we walked into this space thinking, well, I don't drink and drug anymore, so I guess I'm good. And as I got into it, I realized, oh, there's some underlying, as we say in Celebrate Recovery, the problem is not the problem. There was some underlying things that were feeding my protections and defenses. You could say numbing agents or coping strategies that were literally killing me. But I didn't know why I kept going to that until I got to the underlying issue. And so I worked through Celebrate Recovery. I've been through multiple groups now, even as a leader, and every time I lead, even God peels another layer of that onion. There's, as we say, there's lots of tears as we peel that onion. But when we get to the core of it, man, there's such healing. And so God, God took this, this broken man that thought he had it all together and had worked through all his stuff and then helped me realize, oh, there's some stuff underneath the surface that needs to be addressed. And I'm still a work in progress. but now God is using that to help break those chains, to, to be able to be a dad to my adult children and now my, my, in laws, my, my son in law, my daughter in law, my grandkids, my three grandkids, and, and especially my wife and be able to love her, to be emotionally, more mature, to deal with those lies, those stories that I was telling myself for years and, and really change those unhealthy practices to new, healthy practices and living out God's purpose for my life when years ago, I didn't think God could use this broken guy. But he doesn't waste the hurts in our life, and he's doing that my life, one, one moment, one day at a time. And, and it's an exciting journey to be on. So that's kind of a, a big, high level, kind of Cliff Notes version of broken guy. a, man grown into a man trapped in, a little boy stuck inside of me that needed to be showed up for and, and healed so that I can be the man that he's called me to be in my community and my family, in my marriage, in all my relationships. So very, very grateful for what he's done in my life through Celebrate recovery.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Rodney I, I'm cheering through tears. I am so cheering the redemption arc in your story and really moved because a lot of what you describe is so relatable and, and I want to point out some important things that through your testimony for our listeners so they can catch this, because this is important. One of the things that you said was that the experience that is experiences that you had, the traumatic experiences, you said they were literally killing you. And that is true because we know from a landmark research study called the ACEs study, the adverse Childhood Experiences Study that was done in the 1990s, it was the first major study to link childhood trauma with life expectancy, with heart attack, with stroke, with cancer, with suicide, with addiction. We know that childhood trauma deeply wires us for dysfunction, but just in the way that our brains, you know, wire and fire together in a traumatic, dysfunctional way, recovery is possible. The second thing that I want to point out from your story is that that has a generational arc. I know Rodney that was my experience sitting in a nursing class in my master's degree, making a family tree, realizing that addiction was the strangling vine that went through my own family tree. And while there were branches that said, hey, we're not going to drink at all. We'll be teetotalers. We're healed. You don't know. You have to unlearn and relearn all of the dysfunctional patterns that come along with that. And the last and final thing that's so important, Rodney, is your vulnerability. The fact that you just told your story like that, that you said so openly. Yeah, I struggled with addiction. I'm a broken person. God is redeeming me. There are people who want that kind of freedom, and we'll tell them more about how to find it through Celebrate Recovery when we come back after this break. You don't want to miss it. Hello, I'm Jessica peck, host of Dr. Nurse Mama. did you know that this content is listener supported?
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Freedom by Jesus Culture: Step out of the shadows Step out of the grave Break into the wild and don't be afraid Run into wide open spaces Grace m Satan waiting for you Dance like the weight has been lifted Graces waiting Where the spirit of the Lord is There is freedom There is freedom where the spirit of the Lord is There is freedom There is freedom the matter up and down Just as you are into the fullness of his love Holy Spirit is here Let every freedom Let every freedom welcome back, friends.
Dr. Jessica Peck: That is freedom by Jesus culture. And that's what we're talking about today. We're talking about a remarkable ministry called Celebrate Recovery that is helping people to find freedom from their hurts, their habits and their hangups. We are talking to Rodney Holmstrom m who works with Celebrate Recovery. He's just shared his remarkable testimony of incredible brokenness in his family. Having 10 stepfathers, a biological father, having a journey with addiction that started at 10 years of age, but by the saving grace of God being. Having a music teacher who took him into his home introduced him to Christ and the recovery that he's experienced with Celebrate Recovery. And Rodney, I want to start there where we. Where we left off because what you, how you just shared was a display of incredible freedom. You had the freedom to share your story and I Think it doesn't matter. People might think, oh, well, my story wasn't as severe as yours, but childhood trauma can impact us in, In a lot of different ways or things that we've experienced in our past. It doesn't always have to be addiction or, you know, abuse. It can any kinds of generational dysfunction. But the way that you just shared that and you said you accepted Christ, you got rid of your addiction, and yet you still struggled, and you still say you're a work in progress. I want you to share with everybody because I know they're wondering,
How do you get to a place of that kind of freedom where you're on the other side of it?
how do you get to a place of that kind of freedom where you're on the other side of it, where you are able to share your healing journey? What does it take to get to where you are?
Rodney Holmstrom: That's such a good question. Yeah, I think. I think for me, safety is so important. Right. If. If I don't think I feel safe in your presence, by the way, I feel very safe in your presence, Jessica. You have a calming spirit about. But no, if I don't, If I don't feel like what is in my heart is going to be caught by you and held sacred, then. Then I'm probably going to hold it back. And many of us, including myself, have had experiences that say, people will fail you. It's that old statement, you know, don't bleed in front of a great white shark. It's a dangerous recipe for disaster. Right. So if I don't feel like you're going to be there for me, and that's part of what Celebrate Recovery provides is this. These guidelines that, that we hold fast to that. That are just guidelines or guardrails to keep us moving forward on the healing path, that's a big starting point if feeling safe. But for me, when you experience, and I'll just speak from my own experience and what I've seen with people that I've been able to shepherd through the years. When you are able to go to what I call the scary parts of our heart and say, this is what I'm feeling. This is what happened. This is the impact, this is the harm that has caused me and be able to just throw that. That across the room verbally to another safe person or in a group context of Celebrate Recovery, and you look in their eyes and you see that it's safe. And there your pain is being caught by them. There's something that shifts in us, and I don't know how it works is how God wired us. But. But when I. When I can know that and I experienced that for the first time that people weren't going to run out of the room going, we've got the worst guy on the planet here. Or that, you know, we got to fix, get him out of here. He's messed up. That safety. To know that it's okay to not be okay, but Jesus loves us too much to stay where we are. And, and it's okay to share that out loud, that it loses its power. And, and having experienced that and the first time was scary, if I'm being honest. I had all those fears. People are going to leave me, they're going to abandon me, they're not going to love me, they're going to reject me, all those things. But when you experience, experience that, and you get that over and over and over again, the loving hands of the Father and the community around you, it does something in your nervous system that says, it's okay, share it again. And every time you peel another layer of that hurt out, and, and pour that out and speak that out loud, it just, it. It just grows this contagious atmosphere of, I want to do that again. Because it's like a huge weight gets lifted off of our shoulders. And we don't have to carry this alone. We invite Jesus. We invite the body of Christ, which is his design for the church. It really becomes a hospital for the broken to be able to. To be honest and vulnerable. And having experienced that as a satisfied customer makes it easy to say it. And every time I do it, just even sharing it with you a little bit ago, another layer healing just happened in my life because it reminds me I'm not alone. And God has done remarkable things. And I want more of you, Jesus. I want more of the body of Christ. And I can't do that in hiding,
Dr. Jessica Peck: in isolation, you know, Rodney, you're making me think of my grandfather. He went to be with Jesus, about three years ago, and he grew up in a very broken home. You know, think about the 1930s. His dad was known as the town drunk. He learned how to drive a truck when he was 10 years old because he'd have to go and pick him up when the sheriff was. Would tell him, go get your dad. And, and he, you know, he. His parents divorced, which was very, you know, socially isolating at that time. And they, went through great financial difficulty, lived in their car. And he made it his life's mission. He. I never saw him touch a drop with alcohol. He was an esteemed community leader. He put himself through school. He took care of his mother. And his wife's mother for the rest of their lives. And. But he still, like, you know, he, he was a hard guy. Like, you weren't going to talk about feelings with this guy like that that wasn going to happen. And I remember being with him in the, in the hours that right before he died and, and just, I think, you know, in the conversations that we had, just wondering like, is that enough? Like, is that. Did I do enough? And I think about how much we didn't know in his generation about what we're talking about now. You think it's enough just to take away that, that negative influence, whatever that is? Like, I'm, You know, I grew up in a broken home. I'm not leaving my spouse. I'm not going to have infidelity, I'm not going to use, I'm not going to abuse alcohol. I'm not going to be verbally physically abusive. But you really have to unlearn, and relearn those things. And I remember telling my paw paw, you did enough. You did the work of your generation. Now I'm picking it up and I'm going to carry it forward. And to see that healing happen through generations is beautiful. And I want you to talk more about Rodney, about what Celebrate Recovery does to help you with those hurts, hang ups and habits that come along with the addiction. Because you talked about you, you accepted the Lord. That wasn't some magic healing for you. I, mean, it was. Of course it's an important start and that's everything. But it didn't automatically fix everything that you, all of the brokenness you had experienced and you said you became a workaholic. How does Celebrate Recovery help people on that trajectory who might think, yeah, well, I don't do that anymore, so I don't need this.
Rodney Holmstrom: Yeah, yeah, I think, you know, for me, I got, I just, I just recently taught on Jon 15:1 of my, my favorite passages. But, but the, the thought that comes to mind that I was sharing in that there's, that's applicable to what we're talking about is for years I tried to manage the fruit instead of managing the root. And for me it was getting in this like, okay, what is poisoning this vine? What was poisoning this branch that is trying to produce fruit. And I tried to, I tried to be good. I tried to follow the rules and, and try to find things to plug into to get the satis to bring life to me. And what I realized is I was trying to manage and create a polished fruit and doing that apart From Christ and his power coming to me, working in me and working through me doesn't produce the kind of fruit, the lasting, sustainable fruit that. That striving, instead of abiding doesn't work. And so what we're trying to do in this process for anybody. And I'm glad you said that by. About the story. Your story may not be like mine, but if it's big to you, it's big to God. And anything that becomes something that's a barrier between our relationship with Him. You don't have to go get your life in order so that you can have a relationship with Him. we come to him and know that when we choose him, he's the one that changes our choices. And so why do I go to those things? Which means we gotta. We gotta do surgery, right? If. Yeah, if. If you cut me open, there's gonna be a tumor inside of me, and you find 12 tumors. Please don't sew me up after taking the one. Let's get them all out of there before you sew me up. And. And it's painful, hard, but it's worth it. So what we're trying to do is really get into the root to why. Why am I seeing these things come out of me? Why do I react to the world the way I do bump into close relationships? Why do I avoid. Is we're trying to look at the behaviors, but we're not addressing the behaviors first. We're trying to go to the story and understanding the good reasons. It sounds weird to say that, but what are the good reasons why I use those strategies so that I can ultimately let Jesus change those strategies and find hope and a new path? And so as we do that, you know, and this was my story, many people are coming in, looking through the lens of yesterday, and they wonder why the today's lens is distorted. The present that's actually shaping my future. We got to go back to the past, not to get stuck there so that we can stop letting it distort our. Our, present day and how we view God, how we view ourselves, others, our circumstance, to really get to that root. And that's the process of it. And through the principles we're trying to do, can I acknowledge there is a God and I'm not it? I think logically we would all say as believers, yeah, no, I'm not God. But do my. We don't act like it different. Yeah. And so do I. Do I believe there is a God and I'm not it? And Do I believe that my life is unmanageable apart from him? Here it is, Lord. And in that, there's an identity piece. God, thank you that you love me in spite of my story, and you say I matter to you. And if I can fully embrace that gospel message, then I turn my life and my will over to his care to really begin to do that surgery. And so the whole process is about creating a path of turning our life over to him so that he can then say, hey, look at that, that thing is causing you, even though it's red as crimson, I'm going to make you as wide as snow. But we got. It's like he's putting his arm around me saying, hey, let's go to work, work, but don't do it apart from me. I'm going to lead you through this. And when I know I've got him by my side, let's. Let's do some surgery of our heart and get into the roots so that we can ultimately change the outcome in our behaviors in that space.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, you're speaking my language with the, healthcare terminology. But that is such a great analogy, Rodney. I mean, that is what it's like. And, and it's just kind of like the cliche, you know, analogy, of. Of an animal that has his leg caught in a trap. And it's like, nope, nope. Protect. Don't.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Don't.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Don't let me free. Don't let me free. Don't touch it. Don't touch it. But we have to. We have to go there. The only way to get through pain is to get through it. You got to walk through it. But, you know,
The more that I learn about brain science, Rodney, the more I'm in awe of God's goodness
the more that I learn about brain science, Rodney, the more I'm in awe of God's goodness. Because even when we have trauma, the way that he programs our brain, to only be able to process so much at one time, to be only able to store so many memories at one time, and they come back to us in fragments. The way that our brain produces chemicals that are pain relievers, that prepare us for moments of stress and pain and trauma, we have a good God who is giving us redemption and working to renew and restore all things, even in the middle of the brokenness. But we have to take that active step of faith. And when I talk to celebrate recovery volunteers and attendees, Rodney, I will tell you there is a very specific vibe. There is such an upbeat, positive energy, and it really goes back to what you were talking about earlier, that emotional and psychological safety. They are there to listen. They have compassion. I feel like when I'm talking to a Celebrate Recovery leader or volunteer, they're trained to look at you like Jesus would look at you and they see your potential and they see the way that, that God created you to be and they, they've seen so many people walk from brokenness to healing and they want to help you do that too. So talk a little. The logistics. What does it even mean? What does the ministry do? What does it look like? Because I know there's people listening, thinking, I think, I think I might need this. Maybe this is the thing I've been looking for. What does it look like to get connected.
Rodney Holmstrom: Yeah. Such a great. Thanks. Thanks for asking that. Yeah, I think it's, it's one. We've got, we've got groups all over the world. I think we're in 50 countries now, 29, 30 different languages. So God is really growing this ministry and we've created a platform called crlocator.com that you can literally type in your zip code and where you are in the world and connect to a list of groups that are in your area. So that's a good kind of low hanging fruit staying with the fruit analogy, to find a group near you and then once you find that group that the hardest, the hardest walk m. Maybe the longest walk is from that parking lot to that front door. And here's, here's what I would say is, is the only expectation is I'm just gonna show up. There's, there's nothing attached to that. You don't have to do anything. You just be and just check it out. There's no expectations. And what I found and I've never heard anybody that has walked through this process saying man, that was a waste of my time. I should never have done that. what you will hear is, you know, it was hard, but it was worth it. Is we come into this space and it's a corporate gathering and some groups are different, some will have a meal, some won't. But, but we go into this main meeting which is kind of this corporate gathering. That's really where I kind of describe where people kind of get the, the pro. The kind of the diagnosis from the Holy Spirit. Holy Spirit speaks that, hey, I'm talking.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Going to hold you right there. We're already at our second break. As my sound engineer says, Richard radio. So rude cutting us off. But listen, we're going to pick it up right where we're leaving off. Don't. You don't want to miss it more and celebrate recovery right on the other side of this break. And my father, your great grandfather, fought in World War II. Really? He was a gunner on the big ship out in the Pacific ocean. Wow. Your great grandmother did her part, too. Was she on a ship? Oh, no. She stayed back home. She and a lot of her friends worked really hard in a factory because the men had gone off to war, and they held scrap metal drives to help in the war effort. The folks back home were heroes, too.
Here at the American Family Association, we consider you the heroes back home
Jeff Chamblee: Here at the American Family association, we consider you the heroes back home as you fulfill your responsibility of caring for your family day to day. Your partnership with us is crucial as we fight the enemies of freedom in America. Thank you for your commitment to the American Family Association. Grandpa, what's a scrap metal drive? Let's get some cookies, and I'll tell you all about it.
Living Hope by Phil Wickham: Who could imagine so great a mercy? What heart could fathom such boundless grace? The God of ages step down from glory to where my sin and bear my shame. The cross has spoken, I am forgiven. The king of kings calls me his own beautiful savior? I'm yours forever. Jesus Christ, Christ, my living hope. Hallelujah. Praise the one who set me free. Hallelujah. Death has lost its grip on me. You have broken every chain. There's salvation in your name. Jesus Christ, my living hope
Dr. Jessica Peck: Welcome back, friends. That is Living Hope by Phil Wickham. that is in my top 10 list of, favorite songs and my real top 10 list, not my fake top 10 list, where it's really, like, 147 songs I squeeze into the top 10. But mark my words, that song will be at my funeral, because that is the message that I want my life to sing, that we have a living hope in Jesus Christ. And no matter what has happened in your background, no matter what has happened in any point in your life, you are never beyond the hope that is provided to us in Jesus Christ. And today I'm having such a powerful conversation with
Rodney Holmstrom is with Celebrate Recovery. This is a ministry that helps people with their hurts, their habits, their hangups
Rodney Holmstrom. He's with Celebrate Recovery. This is a ministry that helps people with their hurts, their habits, their hangups. It could be addiction. It could be a lot of other things. He shared his very powerful testimony of brokenness in his own family and seeking healing and wholeness and hope through. Through Jesus Christ and through the help in the ministry and the ways that God has equipped the leaders and the vision of Celebrate Recovery. And right before the break, Rodney, we were just talking about some of the logistics, and you said something really profound, which I think is really true. That that longest walk is from the car and across the parking lot into the door, like actually going. And I, I, I bet you there are people who have said I'm going to go and they sit in their car and they sit in their car and then they decide not to go. And it's really hard to get out and to go. But you said there's no expectations. I'd love for you to talk a little bit more about what that would look like if they go into a meeting, demystify that for us a little bit to help people think. Okay. That maybe think that's something I could do.
Rodney Holmstrom: Yeah, yeah. And by the way, I've heard many, many, many testimonies of that very thing of I came came times and sat in my car and left and but the fourth time I came in. So that is a very real thing. It's scary. And I think that's the enemy scheme. So if I can create fear, you that your life's going to be over and there's no hope, that enemy is so such a deceiver. But yeah, as I was mentioning, I think that in that main meeting, I think that's where the Holy Spirit, we hear testimonies, we do worship. It's a corporate gathering where I think the Holy Spirit really kind of reveals a diagnosis. Hey, here's something that I want you to work on, Rodney. And then in that, as we come out of that general meeting, which is about an hour meeting, we go into our first small group experience on our general meeting night. And that's where gender specific groups, men are with men, women are with women. And they're just talking about the things that are going on in their life. Maybe it's a victory, a struggle, just an open shared discussion. But it's the place where we ah, where it's become one of my favorite things when I hear someone say, hey, what I'm about to tell you, I've never told you to anybody. And then they blurt it out and almost kind of float out of the room. So it's where that, that first healing happens. But you don't have to share. That's the beauty. You can say pass or just don't say anything and, and you'll, you can just be present in that group. But, but that's the kind of the gist of the, the general meeting. And then we have another type of a small group where we're getting into a curriculum where there's more specific questions, where we're digging in, what's Your family secret. Who have you heard hurt? How. What kind of that family of origin stuff to really understand the good reasons why we do what we do to get to that route that I was talking about before. but. But all of this, we, we kind of, we kind of walk through with a newcomer when they first come in to help them be equipped with every leg of the race, every step of the race. All you got to do is show up and. And just be. And we'll walk you through every step of the way. It's a safe group of people that will love you and meet you exactly where you are and help you get unst. Stuck from your hurts, hangups and habits.
Dr. Jessica Peck: You know, when people struggle with these kinds of things, I find, you know, that sometimes there's two different responses. One is, hey, that was in my past. It doesn't define me. I don't want to think about it like I'm moving on like that. But, you know, have not having addressed anything but just saying, like, I'm going to have a new way and that's going to be different. Or the other extreme of that is staying stuck in it. And everything is about that. And every, you know, every life experiences is still through the lens of that trauma. Both of those are not a trajectory towards healing. How does Celebrate Recovery help pull on both of those extremes to kind of unwind some things that you may have packed down in there that you don't realize or helping you move forward in some ways that you're stuck in grief or whatever that emotion is. How does Celebrate Recovery help move you on that healing trajectory?
Rodney Holmstrom: Yeah, I think, you know, for me, I think it was Dan Ellender that said that that sadness is what was meant to be and then another layer of grief is what isn't meant to be is. And when we sit in that reality and we allow ourselves to feel that for the first time, we express that pain out loud. But. But it's not just a, sometimes you can see in groups where it just kind of becomes a, A war story, circle. Right. We're not just there, right? Almost like we're. Oh, you think you got a bad. Let me tell you about my story.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Right.
Rodney Holmstrom: and I think the difference in that with we. We're talking about vulnerability earlier is
Vulnerability is honesty with intention
vulnerability is honesty with intention, not information for attention. So there is a strategy to move us, forward. I. There's an intentionality about why I'm sharing this. Not so that I can stay a victim, but to be a victor, to walk in this New No matter what has happened. And I was stuck in this pattern for a while, it's like, well, it makes sense why I do what I do. If you knew my story, you'd understand why I'm drinking and. Or whatever is.
Amber Brown: Is.
Rodney Holmstrom: That's a victim mentality. The owning the story is I'm going to share this with intentionality to move me in a different direction. While it makes sense why my story is hard, why I might be going to these survival instincts, protections, strategies, whatever, it doesn't mean I have to stay there. And so the intentionality is to organize the pain, take responsibility. You know, we talk about this often in recovery. That excuses protect my image, responsibility and honesty protect my recovery. And so when I can be curious about what it could be like to be rigorously honest to protect my recovery. Stop trying to protect your image, Rodney. Move into protecting your recovery. Recovery is getting you on this sanctification process to. To deal with all the baggage that may be keeping you stuck in that ditch. But the process is helping us be honest about what happened, take responsibility for our part and what we have done with the pain, even in abuse.
Amber Brown: And,
Rodney Holmstrom: And I was physically. I didn't. I don't think I mentioned that I was physically, verbally, emotionally, and sexually abused a little boy. So. So while I can say, well, that wasn't my fault, this is just my life. What it does become, though, it's not my fault, and that was not my fault. Nothing I could do would deserve that, but it does become my responsibility. I need to be honest about that because I don't want to be stuck in this ditch any longer. I want to move forward in a new path. And so I got to be honest about the ways I've coped with that pain through substances control, whatever the thing is, so that I can then get back to God's design, which means I got to be honest with that. And so the whole ministry is about being rigorously honest, not to make us feel bad, but to help us to move forward. Even the word emotion comes from that word. Motus. Right? To move us forward. I want to move forward. So when I share with honesty, it's with intentionality to take me in a different direction so I don't stay stuck back there any longer.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Rodney, I'm so sorry that you experienced that as a child. It just breaks my heart every time I hear of a child who encountered abuse, mistreatment like that. It just. It shouldn't be. And I know that we have a God who grieves Alongside of us, I know that we have a savior who is not unacquainted with suffering. And I know, just as you said at the beginning of the show, Rodney, that God doesn't waste pain. And in a way that we don't understand, he's still providing grace and he's still providing healing. He's still providing new mercies every morning. And the opposite of this, if you say, okay, well, I don't want to believe in a God who would let things like this happen, well, the opposite is. We look at the aces study, that path leads to death and destruction and disease and all kinds of horrible things, but God has given us a path toward recovery. And when we. We talk about, you know, you're talking about taking that path forward. Sometimes I think it's hard for people because they may not even recognize the dysfunction that they have. They may think, hey, I'm not an alcoholic. I don't. I don't have that. But you don't even recognize it's the people in your life who recognize it. And you may think of as something peripheral, like, oh, I've got a marriage problem. I got a relationship problem with my kids, you know, I got. Or whatever it is that might be. How can. How can we recognize when, you know, we just fallen into patterns of dysfunction with that, with. And just normalize them and think, okay, maybe this is for me too, because it's easy to think, oh, it's for somebody who has alcohol, drug abuse. But how is it for everybody who's experienced some. Some trauma that they haven't processed?
Rodney Holmstrom: Well, yeah, that's so good, because that is the reality when you hear the word recovery, my brain automatically talking about drugs and alcohol. But. But we have been trying to recover a broken image since the fall, right? And so that. That. That broken image we're trying to recover. So. So if. If we believe scripture to be true in that, that that happened and then Jesus came to not just make his kids that are behaving badly to behave better, but he actually, he calls us holy, that he wants to make his holy kids healthy, then I have to be honest and say, okay, maybe I don't have strategies of addictions or drugs or whatever, but what are the things that I run to? And what is the. What is the world's experience when they bump into me in conflict or do I let anybody into my heart and just being honest about those things of how do I. How do I respond to a broken world and do. Is it healthy? ask. Ask my wife, right Sometimes kind of joke about that I'm a great communicator. And then you ask my wife and she go, oh, maybe not as good a communicator as I thought. So sometimes we have a perspective, but when we ask the people around us saying, hey, I'm seeing this and. And so if you're seeing that and hearing that from other people, maybe be curious about the possibility of I need to trust these people around me and maybe lean into it. Though I don't go to drugs and alcohol. In fact, one in three people that come to Celebrate Recovery are dealing with addiction. Everyone else is dealing with the stuff underneath addictions, that we're addicted to something, whether it's people pleasing or perfectionism or control or whatever that is codependency. There's things that we have learned, our brain has learned, and you know this better than anybody, strategies that we've learned that have kept us alive. But it doesn't mean it's the right thing. And so how do I lean into that to invite Jesus into a new way? Is there something underneath the surface that's. That's robbing my peace, my. My hope, my joy, all those things up. Fruit of the spirit that I need to invite Jesus into that so that I can have a fulfilling life, not a perfect life. This doesn't take away the pain of a broken world, but it gives us the tools to face the broken world with courage and strength. And that's what we're trying to do. It's not just about drugs and alcohol, Hall. It's about all that other stuff. And what a cool thing that we have, a safe space as the church. This being of the hospital that. That is for us to. To allow ourselves to say, hey, I'm not. I'm not well and I. I'm ready to do something about it.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Yeah,
I've heard it said that the church is not a museum for saints. It's a hospital for sinners.
I've heard it said that the church is not a museum for saints. It's a hospital for sinners. And it really truly is. And we're coming to the end of our time together, Ronnie. It's gone too fast for me. Me. But you mentioned really quickly some of the other things that you might see in Celebrate Recovery. But can you give us just like a 1m minute rundown of other things that might. That. That Celebrate Recovery, the ways that Celebrate Recovery has helped people?
Rodney Holmstrom: Yeah, Yeah. I think, you know, codependency is a real common thing. It can be really confusing. But that's just where I put my value in what other people think about me. If, if you're. If you're having a bad day toward me, then I, I'm having a bad day. If things are good from your standpoint, that I'm going to have a good day. So I place my value and really all it is, is insecurity. So a lot of people come in with an insecurity in this, this, kind of overriding simmer of shame, right? These stories that we tell ourselves, in conflict or pain, we control low self esteem. And then there's things like the perfectionism. Perfectionism is one of the ways I introduce myself where a mistake equaled, failure. And it wasn't just I made a mistake, I am a mistake. And, and that was a part of that. Why do I have rigidity, toward myself that bled over on my wife and my, in my close relationships? Why do I have anger inside of me stirring this unresolved pain, Pain and fear that, I realize her.
Dr. Jessica Peck: You're not alone in that. Perfectionism was my own weapon of choice when I was choosing unhealthy coping mechanisms. And unfortunately, the world celebrates that more than they recognize dysfunction and some other kinds of addiction. But look, we're going to put all of the notes on Celebrate recovery and Rodney to date, myself, I will say I think this is the start of a beautiful friendship. I feel like we're going to have more conversations to come and wherever you are and taking that next step towards healing. I pray as I always do, that the Lord will bless you and keep you. Make his face to shine upon you. We'll see you here tomorrow. We'd like to thank our sponsors, including PreBorn.
PreBorn has rescued over 400,000 babies from abortion, and has seen over 100,000 commitments to Christ.
PreBorn has rescued over 400,000 babies from abortion and has seen over 100,000 commitments to Christ. Will you join PreBorn and continue continuing this good work supporting young moms in crisis? Save a life today. Go to preborn.com/AFR the views and
Jeff Chamblee: opinions expressed in this broadcast may not necessarily reflect those of the American Family association or American Family Radio.
We would like to take a moment to thank our sponsor, PreBorn
Dr. Jessica Peck: We would like to take a moment to thank our sponsor, PreBorn. When a mother meets her baby on ultrasound and hears their heartbeat, it's a divine connection. And the majority of the time she will choose life. But they can't do it without our help. Preborn needs us, the pro life community, to come alongside them. One ultrasound is just $28. To donate, dial pound 250 and say the keyword baby or visit preborn.com/AFR what if one moment could change a life forever? Every day, mothers facing unplanned pregnancies walk into PreBorn Network clinics searching for hope. Through a free ultrasound, they meet their baby for the very first time. And when they see that tiny life and hear that heartbeat, everything can change.
Dan Steiner: Hey friend. Dan Steiner, president at PreBorn here with a heartfelt thank you. Because you know what? This year so far, your partnership with PreBorn has saved over 50,000 babies and moms from abortion. And it wouldn't have happened without you. What you are doing together with PreBorn is truly changing generations. Every tax- deductible dollar that you give is used to rescue babies lives and lead moms to Jesus Christ. So far this year alone, We've seen over 8,000 women give their hearts to Christ. All because you help with an ultrasound scan for $28 or a machine for $15,000. So thank you. Your caring help saves lives both for earth and and for eternity. God bless you.
Dr. Jessica Peck: And there's even more to celebrate. This year alone, more than 5,100 women have made decisions for Christ through the ministry of PreBorn. That's because your generosity saves lives for both earth and eternity. Right now, more mothers are waiting for that life changing moment. $28 helps to provide one life. Saving ultrasound 140 helps rescue five babies. To donate to pound 250 and say the keyword baby, that's pound 250 baby or visit preborn.com/AFR that's preborn.com/AFR Every gift is tax- deductible. Hello and welcome to the doctor nursemama show prescribing Hope for Healthy Families here on American Family Radio. Here's your host, professor, pediatric nurse practitioner and mom of four, Dr. Jessica Peck.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Well hey there friends and welcome to my favorite time of day. I love getting to spend time with you prescribing Hope for Healthy families. Listen, today I am going to tell you about an incredible resource. You might have heard about it, you might have never heard about it, you might have heard about it and think, yeah, I've heard that. But I'm not Sure. What it does. You might have heard about it and thought, oh yeah, I've heard of that. I've actually been convicted to go, but I haven't taken that step forward. Or you might have heard and maybe you think you want to recommend it to a friend. What am I talking about? Well, hang with me and I'll tell you. Because the truth is we live in a culture that is increasingly comfortable and talking about mental health and trauma and things like addiction and emotional pain. We talk about those things all the time here on this show. But despite greater awareness, there are a lot of people who continue to suffer in silence. They know they have an issue, but reaching out for help, there's a lot of fear involved. What if that is not a, resource that's going to be congruent with my faith? What if, what if, you know, somebody finds out and thinks something different of me? And behind all of those things that we scroll on social media, the smiling family pictures we're about to come up to matching PJ season and Sunday morning church services, or just those carefully curated best 12 seconds of their week, behind those people are struggling with things they don't know how to talk about. I wrote about this in my book Behind Closed Doors, a guide to help parents and teens navigate life's toughest issues. Because if you go into my waiting room where I'm seeing kids, you know, as a pediatric clinician, there's families out there and they don't know that family that looks so perfect on the outside is coming to see me because of a severe mental health concern, or they're going through a divorce or there's an addiction or they're self harming. We get, we really get deceived by some of those facades that are there. And there are things in every family like addiction and anxiety and anger and grief, shame, codependency, childhood trauma, marital brokenness, family dysfunction. These things are all what we have come to know living in a broken world. And the overwhelming fear is that if anyone really knew what was going on behind closed doors, they might think differently about us. And for families, these struggles rarely remain isolated to one person. It impacts the whole family. When a parent is battling addiction, when a marriage is fractured by a betrayal, when a child grows up navigating unpredictable environmental, environmental emotions, those effects aren't just limited to that one person. They go across relationships and even down through generations. I know that's certainly been my personal experience as I've shared with you. And sometimes the greatest obstacle to healing isn't the Struggle itself. It's the shame that convinces us that we have to hide it. And as Christians, we believe that Jesus Christ offers, offers forgiveness, redemption, restoration and freedom. But how do we translate those beautiful biblical promises into practical steps towards a, healthy approach to healing? How do we create churches where hurting people can be honest about their struggles? How do we help families break those unhealthy patterns rather than just hiding them and passing them down generation to generation? Well, that's where we come to today that
I want to tell you about an extraordinary ministry called Celebrate Recovery
I want to tell you about an extraordinary ministry called Celebrate Recovery. Now, some of you are saying, ah, that's what it is. Well, if you don't know, it's a Christ centered recovery ministry built around biblical principles and the belief that no one should have to navigate their hurts, habits and hang ups alone. And while many people associate recovery just with substance addiction, Celebrate Recovery has a much broader lens than that. It invites people struggling with a wide variety of life's challenges to pursue healing through Jesus Christ and supportive community. My guest today is Rodney Holmstrom. Now, he has dedicated more than two decades of his life to helping people and families discover healing and freedom and restoration through celebrate recovery. For 21 years, he served as the congregational leader and director of Celebrate Recovery at Fellowship Bible Church in Northwest Arkansas. He has helped lead a ministry serving thousands. You heard me say that. Thousands of people seeking hope and healing. What you take from that is that you are not alone. You are not the exception. This is often a burden we carry in a broken world. And in addition to his ministry leadership, Rodney brings significant clinical expertise to this conversation. He holds dual master's degrees in marriage and family therapy and clinical mental health. And he's a licensed professional counselor. He serves as the director of the Fellowship Counseling and Care Net Center. Together with his wife Carol, Rodney has a heart for helping hurting people experience the transforming love of Jesus Christ. They have two grown kids and they're the proud grandparents of three. Rodney, I've been looking forward to this conversation for a really long time, and I'm so glad that you're here today. Thank you so much for joining us.
Rodney Holmstrom: Oh, I'm, I'm so pumped. This is a highlight, highlight of my week. I've been looking forward to this time.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, I'm, you know, help and healing is a beautiful thing, but it's not when people don't know about it. And so that's what I want to do today, today. But let's start with your story, because your story is important too. You know, you spent more than 20 years pouring your life into this. Tell us how the Lord led you there. How did you come to know the Lord? How did he lead you into this ministry? What do you see God doing today?
Rodney Holmstrom: Yeah, thanks for asking. I always love sharing parts of my story. I'm, I, I'm pretty broken guy, come from a pretty broken home, multiple. When I went through grad school, I kind of had to lean into this. It's kind of expensive therapy going through grad school. But as I was leaning into it, I was able to discover I had multiple stepfathers. I don't know how many of them were legally married to my mom, but 10 stepfathers and a biological dad. And with that common theme, brokenness, addictions, unresolved past hurts, which is the kind of where we lean into with celebrate recovery. That led to some unhealthy coping strategies that caused havoc on me and my brothers and my mom and just a very dysfunctional functional home. And, and with that, ah, at a very young age, unfortunately, because of the chaos happening outside of me, I was trying to find some kind of survival and peace inside of me and I turned to substance abuse. At, 10 years old, I started using my first substance and it was my way of numbing out the chaos, happening around me. And so early on I became an addict. My mom, she has her own story of dysfunction from her past and, and she, that as long as I was doing it with her and in front of her, that it was somehow safe. And it doesn't make sense. But when you know her full story, it makes a lot of sense. And so that began the spinning out of my addiction, my addictive path. And, and I stayed stuck in that for a good while and, and just trying to survive. I put too many things in my body, to try to stay alive that was literally killing me. And, and that led to some, some really unhealthy relationships, you know, people, places and things in my life that, that really caused havoc on my life. And, and as I got into my later years,
I was actually taken into a home by my music teacher because he, he discovered that I was homeless
I actually was taken into a home by my music teacher because he, he discovered that I was homeless. He took me in. I, learned that I had some musical gifts that I didn't know I had. And, and he helped me to work, through to get a music scholarship. Got me thinking about, as I got into church and, and found Christ. They gave me a place to live. They gave me a platform to be able to get into church. And for the first time, I started having hope for my life because I, I literally my whole Life thought because I'd seen it in my family system, I believed I was going to die young and this is my destiny. And, and what this man, Mr. Taylor. Mr. And Mrs. Taylor, that took me in. Sweet, sweet couple. Mr. Taylor has since passed away, but he died of Cove during the pandemic. But they got me thinking that there's something bigger. Number one, they pointed me to Jesus Christ and I received Christ. And that began the trajectory of maybe life can be different for me. And, and as I became a believer and getting into the. The church there, just a small little Baptist church there in, In Oklahoma, God began to really work on my heart and, and my life changed in, in, in drastic ways. What I didn't know until getting into college, where I met my wife, I was still holding on to. While I wasn't using anymore and drinking and drugging and all that stuff, it was the underlying stuff that was still simmering. So any, any indication that you, would reject me or go away from me. As I'd seen many men in my life, ab mom didn't know how to be present with me emotionally. So anything that smelled like that old story, I would go back to my default, of trying to control it under my own power while I didn't go to drinking and drugging work. I threw myself into work to gain some kind of acceptance. And this caused havoc in my relationship. I became a workaholic. And early in my marriage, my wife was about spent on that. She was spiritually poor and lonely and just, you know, this isn't what I signed up for. And we actually separated for a season. by the grace of God, she brought us back together. We've been married 34 years now, but, but we walk through that season. But when I was introduced to Celebrate Recovery as adults in my marriage, we walked into this space thinking, well, I don't drink and drug anymore, so I guess I'm good. And as I got into it, I realized, oh, there's some underlying, as we say in Celebrate Recovery, the problem is not the problem. There was some underlying things that were feeding my protections and defenses. You could say numbing agents or coping strategies that were literally killing me. But I didn't know why I kept going to that until I got to the underlying issue. And so I worked through Celebrate Recovery. I've been through multiple groups now, even as a leader, and every time I lead, even God peels another layer of that onion. There's, as we say, there's lots of tears as we peel that onion. But when we get to the core of it, man, there's such healing. And so God, God took this, this broken man that thought he had it all together and had worked through all his stuff and then helped me realize, oh, there's some stuff underneath the surface that needs to be addressed. And I'm still a work in progress. but now God is using that to help break those chains, to, to be able to be a dad to my adult children and now my, my, in laws, my, my son in law, my daughter in law, my grandkids, my three grandkids, and, and especially my wife and be able to love her, to be emotionally, more mature, to deal with those lies, those stories that I was telling myself for years and, and really change those unhealthy practices to new, healthy practices and living out God's purpose for my life when years ago, I didn't think God could use this broken guy. But he doesn't waste the hurts in our life, and he's doing that my life, one, one moment, one day at a time. And, and it's an exciting journey to be on. So that's kind of a, a big, high level, kind of Cliff Notes version of broken guy. a, man grown into a man trapped in, a little boy stuck inside of me that needed to be showed up for and, and healed so that I can be the man that he's called me to be in my community and my family, in my marriage, in all my relationships. So very, very grateful for what he's done in my life through Celebrate recovery.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Rodney I, I'm cheering through tears. I am so cheering the redemption arc in your story and really moved because a lot of what you describe is so relatable and, and I want to point out some important things that through your testimony for our listeners so they can catch this, because this is important. One of the things that you said was that the experience that is experiences that you had, the traumatic experiences, you said they were literally killing you. And that is true because we know from a landmark research study called the ACEs study, the adverse Childhood Experiences Study that was done in the 1990s, it was the first major study to link childhood trauma with life expectancy, with heart attack, with stroke, with cancer, with suicide, with addiction. We know that childhood trauma deeply wires us for dysfunction, but just in the way that our brains, you know, wire and fire together in a traumatic, dysfunctional way, recovery is possible. The second thing that I want to point out from your story is that that has a generational arc. I know Rodney that was my experience sitting in a nursing class in my master's degree, making a family tree, realizing that addiction was the strangling vine that went through my own family tree. And while there were branches that said, hey, we're not going to drink at all. We'll be teetotalers. We're healed. You don't know. You have to unlearn and relearn all of the dysfunctional patterns that come along with that. And the last and final thing that's so important, Rodney, is your vulnerability. The fact that you just told your story like that, that you said so openly. Yeah, I struggled with addiction. I'm a broken person. God is redeeming me. There are people who want that kind of freedom, and we'll tell them more about how to find it through Celebrate Recovery when we come back after this break. You don't want to miss it. Hello, I'm Jessica peck, host of Dr. Nurse Mama. did you know that this content is listener supported?
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Freedom by Jesus Culture: Step out of the shadows Step out of the grave Break into the wild and don't be afraid Run into wide open spaces Grace m Satan waiting for you Dance like the weight has been lifted Graces waiting Where the spirit of the Lord is There is freedom There is freedom where the spirit of the Lord is There is freedom There is freedom the matter up and down Just as you are into the fullness of his love Holy Spirit is here Let every freedom Let every freedom welcome back, friends.
Dr. Jessica Peck: That is freedom by Jesus culture. And that's what we're talking about today. We're talking about a remarkable ministry called Celebrate Recovery that is helping people to find freedom from their hurts, their habits and their hangups. We are talking to Rodney Holmstrom m who works with Celebrate Recovery. He's just shared his remarkable testimony of incredible brokenness in his family. Having 10 stepfathers, a biological father, having a journey with addiction that started at 10 years of age, but by the saving grace of God being. Having a music teacher who took him into his home introduced him to Christ and the recovery that he's experienced with Celebrate Recovery. And Rodney, I want to start there where we. Where we left off because what you, how you just shared was a display of incredible freedom. You had the freedom to share your story and I Think it doesn't matter. People might think, oh, well, my story wasn't as severe as yours, but childhood trauma can impact us in, In a lot of different ways or things that we've experienced in our past. It doesn't always have to be addiction or, you know, abuse. It can any kinds of generational dysfunction. But the way that you just shared that and you said you accepted Christ, you got rid of your addiction, and yet you still struggled, and you still say you're a work in progress. I want you to share with everybody because I know they're wondering,
How do you get to a place of that kind of freedom where you're on the other side of it?
how do you get to a place of that kind of freedom where you're on the other side of it, where you are able to share your healing journey? What does it take to get to where you are?
Rodney Holmstrom: That's such a good question. Yeah, I think. I think for me, safety is so important. Right. If. If I don't think I feel safe in your presence, by the way, I feel very safe in your presence, Jessica. You have a calming spirit about. But no, if I don't, If I don't feel like what is in my heart is going to be caught by you and held sacred, then. Then I'm probably going to hold it back. And many of us, including myself, have had experiences that say, people will fail you. It's that old statement, you know, don't bleed in front of a great white shark. It's a dangerous recipe for disaster. Right. So if I don't feel like you're going to be there for me, and that's part of what Celebrate Recovery provides is this. These guidelines that, that we hold fast to that. That are just guidelines or guardrails to keep us moving forward on the healing path, that's a big starting point if feeling safe. But for me, when you experience, and I'll just speak from my own experience and what I've seen with people that I've been able to shepherd through the years. When you are able to go to what I call the scary parts of our heart and say, this is what I'm feeling. This is what happened. This is the impact, this is the harm that has caused me and be able to just throw that. That across the room verbally to another safe person or in a group context of Celebrate Recovery, and you look in their eyes and you see that it's safe. And there your pain is being caught by them. There's something that shifts in us, and I don't know how it works is how God wired us. But. But when I. When I can know that and I experienced that for the first time that people weren't going to run out of the room going, we've got the worst guy on the planet here. Or that, you know, we got to fix, get him out of here. He's messed up. That safety. To know that it's okay to not be okay, but Jesus loves us too much to stay where we are. And, and it's okay to share that out loud, that it loses its power. And, and having experienced that and the first time was scary, if I'm being honest. I had all those fears. People are going to leave me, they're going to abandon me, they're not going to love me, they're going to reject me, all those things. But when you experience, experience that, and you get that over and over and over again, the loving hands of the Father and the community around you, it does something in your nervous system that says, it's okay, share it again. And every time you peel another layer of that hurt out, and, and pour that out and speak that out loud, it just, it. It just grows this contagious atmosphere of, I want to do that again. Because it's like a huge weight gets lifted off of our shoulders. And we don't have to carry this alone. We invite Jesus. We invite the body of Christ, which is his design for the church. It really becomes a hospital for the broken to be able to. To be honest and vulnerable. And having experienced that as a satisfied customer makes it easy to say it. And every time I do it, just even sharing it with you a little bit ago, another layer healing just happened in my life because it reminds me I'm not alone. And God has done remarkable things. And I want more of you, Jesus. I want more of the body of Christ. And I can't do that in hiding,
Dr. Jessica Peck: in isolation, you know, Rodney, you're making me think of my grandfather. He went to be with Jesus, about three years ago, and he grew up in a very broken home. You know, think about the 1930s. His dad was known as the town drunk. He learned how to drive a truck when he was 10 years old because he'd have to go and pick him up when the sheriff was. Would tell him, go get your dad. And, and he, you know, he. His parents divorced, which was very, you know, socially isolating at that time. And they, went through great financial difficulty, lived in their car. And he made it his life's mission. He. I never saw him touch a drop with alcohol. He was an esteemed community leader. He put himself through school. He took care of his mother. And his wife's mother for the rest of their lives. And. But he still, like, you know, he, he was a hard guy. Like, you weren't going to talk about feelings with this guy like that that wasn going to happen. And I remember being with him in the, in the hours that right before he died and, and just, I think, you know, in the conversations that we had, just wondering like, is that enough? Like, is that. Did I do enough? And I think about how much we didn't know in his generation about what we're talking about now. You think it's enough just to take away that, that negative influence, whatever that is? Like, I'm, You know, I grew up in a broken home. I'm not leaving my spouse. I'm not going to have infidelity, I'm not going to use, I'm not going to abuse alcohol. I'm not going to be verbally physically abusive. But you really have to unlearn, and relearn those things. And I remember telling my paw paw, you did enough. You did the work of your generation. Now I'm picking it up and I'm going to carry it forward. And to see that healing happen through generations is beautiful. And I want you to talk more about Rodney, about what Celebrate Recovery does to help you with those hurts, hang ups and habits that come along with the addiction. Because you talked about you, you accepted the Lord. That wasn't some magic healing for you. I, mean, it was. Of course it's an important start and that's everything. But it didn't automatically fix everything that you, all of the brokenness you had experienced and you said you became a workaholic. How does Celebrate Recovery help people on that trajectory who might think, yeah, well, I don't do that anymore, so I don't need this.
Rodney Holmstrom: Yeah, yeah, I think, you know, for me, I got, I just, I just recently taught on Jon 15:1 of my, my favorite passages. But, but the, the thought that comes to mind that I was sharing in that there's, that's applicable to what we're talking about is for years I tried to manage the fruit instead of managing the root. And for me it was getting in this like, okay, what is poisoning this vine? What was poisoning this branch that is trying to produce fruit. And I tried to, I tried to be good. I tried to follow the rules and, and try to find things to plug into to get the satis to bring life to me. And what I realized is I was trying to manage and create a polished fruit and doing that apart From Christ and his power coming to me, working in me and working through me doesn't produce the kind of fruit, the lasting, sustainable fruit that. That striving, instead of abiding doesn't work. And so what we're trying to do in this process for anybody. And I'm glad you said that by. About the story. Your story may not be like mine, but if it's big to you, it's big to God. And anything that becomes something that's a barrier between our relationship with Him. You don't have to go get your life in order so that you can have a relationship with Him. we come to him and know that when we choose him, he's the one that changes our choices. And so why do I go to those things? Which means we gotta. We gotta do surgery, right? If. Yeah, if. If you cut me open, there's gonna be a tumor inside of me, and you find 12 tumors. Please don't sew me up after taking the one. Let's get them all out of there before you sew me up. And. And it's painful, hard, but it's worth it. So what we're trying to do is really get into the root to why. Why am I seeing these things come out of me? Why do I react to the world the way I do bump into close relationships? Why do I avoid. Is we're trying to look at the behaviors, but we're not addressing the behaviors first. We're trying to go to the story and understanding the good reasons. It sounds weird to say that, but what are the good reasons why I use those strategies so that I can ultimately let Jesus change those strategies and find hope and a new path? And so as we do that, you know, and this was my story, many people are coming in, looking through the lens of yesterday, and they wonder why the today's lens is distorted. The present that's actually shaping my future. We got to go back to the past, not to get stuck there so that we can stop letting it distort our. Our, present day and how we view God, how we view ourselves, others, our circumstance, to really get to that root. And that's the process of it. And through the principles we're trying to do, can I acknowledge there is a God and I'm not it? I think logically we would all say as believers, yeah, no, I'm not God. But do my. We don't act like it different. Yeah. And so do I. Do I believe there is a God and I'm not it? And Do I believe that my life is unmanageable apart from him? Here it is, Lord. And in that, there's an identity piece. God, thank you that you love me in spite of my story, and you say I matter to you. And if I can fully embrace that gospel message, then I turn my life and my will over to his care to really begin to do that surgery. And so the whole process is about creating a path of turning our life over to him so that he can then say, hey, look at that, that thing is causing you, even though it's red as crimson, I'm going to make you as wide as snow. But we got. It's like he's putting his arm around me saying, hey, let's go to work, work, but don't do it apart from me. I'm going to lead you through this. And when I know I've got him by my side, let's. Let's do some surgery of our heart and get into the roots so that we can ultimately change the outcome in our behaviors in that space.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, you're speaking my language with the, healthcare terminology. But that is such a great analogy, Rodney. I mean, that is what it's like. And, and it's just kind of like the cliche, you know, analogy, of. Of an animal that has his leg caught in a trap. And it's like, nope, nope. Protect. Don't.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Don't.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Don't let me free. Don't let me free. Don't touch it. Don't touch it. But we have to. We have to go there. The only way to get through pain is to get through it. You got to walk through it. But, you know,
The more that I learn about brain science, Rodney, the more I'm in awe of God's goodness
the more that I learn about brain science, Rodney, the more I'm in awe of God's goodness. Because even when we have trauma, the way that he programs our brain, to only be able to process so much at one time, to be only able to store so many memories at one time, and they come back to us in fragments. The way that our brain produces chemicals that are pain relievers, that prepare us for moments of stress and pain and trauma, we have a good God who is giving us redemption and working to renew and restore all things, even in the middle of the brokenness. But we have to take that active step of faith. And when I talk to celebrate recovery volunteers and attendees, Rodney, I will tell you there is a very specific vibe. There is such an upbeat, positive energy, and it really goes back to what you were talking about earlier, that emotional and psychological safety. They are there to listen. They have compassion. I feel like when I'm talking to a Celebrate Recovery leader or volunteer, they're trained to look at you like Jesus would look at you and they see your potential and they see the way that, that God created you to be and they, they've seen so many people walk from brokenness to healing and they want to help you do that too. So talk a little. The logistics. What does it even mean? What does the ministry do? What does it look like? Because I know there's people listening, thinking, I think, I think I might need this. Maybe this is the thing I've been looking for. What does it look like to get connected.
Rodney Holmstrom: Yeah. Such a great. Thanks. Thanks for asking that. Yeah, I think it's, it's one. We've got, we've got groups all over the world. I think we're in 50 countries now, 29, 30 different languages. So God is really growing this ministry and we've created a platform called crlocator.com that you can literally type in your zip code and where you are in the world and connect to a list of groups that are in your area. So that's a good kind of low hanging fruit staying with the fruit analogy, to find a group near you and then once you find that group that the hardest, the hardest walk m. Maybe the longest walk is from that parking lot to that front door. And here's, here's what I would say is, is the only expectation is I'm just gonna show up. There's, there's nothing attached to that. You don't have to do anything. You just be and just check it out. There's no expectations. And what I found and I've never heard anybody that has walked through this process saying man, that was a waste of my time. I should never have done that. what you will hear is, you know, it was hard, but it was worth it. Is we come into this space and it's a corporate gathering and some groups are different, some will have a meal, some won't. But, but we go into this main meeting which is kind of this corporate gathering. That's really where I kind of describe where people kind of get the, the pro. The kind of the diagnosis from the Holy Spirit. Holy Spirit speaks that, hey, I'm talking.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Going to hold you right there. We're already at our second break. As my sound engineer says, Richard radio. So rude cutting us off. But listen, we're going to pick it up right where we're leaving off. Don't. You don't want to miss it more and celebrate recovery right on the other side of this break. And my father, your great grandfather, fought in World War II. Really? He was a gunner on the big ship out in the Pacific ocean. Wow. Your great grandmother did her part, too. Was she on a ship? Oh, no. She stayed back home. She and a lot of her friends worked really hard in a factory because the men had gone off to war, and they held scrap metal drives to help in the war effort. The folks back home were heroes, too.
Here at the American Family Association, we consider you the heroes back home
Jeff Chamblee: Here at the American Family association, we consider you the heroes back home as you fulfill your responsibility of caring for your family day to day. Your partnership with us is crucial as we fight the enemies of freedom in America. Thank you for your commitment to the American Family Association. Grandpa, what's a scrap metal drive? Let's get some cookies, and I'll tell you all about it.
Living Hope by Phil Wickham: Who could imagine so great a mercy? What heart could fathom such boundless grace? The God of ages step down from glory to where my sin and bear my shame. The cross has spoken, I am forgiven. The king of kings calls me his own beautiful savior? I'm yours forever. Jesus Christ, Christ, my living hope. Hallelujah. Praise the one who set me free. Hallelujah. Death has lost its grip on me. You have broken every chain. There's salvation in your name. Jesus Christ, my living hope
Dr. Jessica Peck: Welcome back, friends. That is Living Hope by Phil Wickham. that is in my top 10 list of, favorite songs and my real top 10 list, not my fake top 10 list, where it's really, like, 147 songs I squeeze into the top 10. But mark my words, that song will be at my funeral, because that is the message that I want my life to sing, that we have a living hope in Jesus Christ. And no matter what has happened in your background, no matter what has happened in any point in your life, you are never beyond the hope that is provided to us in Jesus Christ. And today I'm having such a powerful conversation with
Rodney Holmstrom is with Celebrate Recovery. This is a ministry that helps people with their hurts, their habits, their hangups
Rodney Holmstrom. He's with Celebrate Recovery. This is a ministry that helps people with their hurts, their habits, their hangups. It could be addiction. It could be a lot of other things. He shared his very powerful testimony of brokenness in his own family and seeking healing and wholeness and hope through. Through Jesus Christ and through the help in the ministry and the ways that God has equipped the leaders and the vision of Celebrate Recovery. And right before the break, Rodney, we were just talking about some of the logistics, and you said something really profound, which I think is really true. That that longest walk is from the car and across the parking lot into the door, like actually going. And I, I, I bet you there are people who have said I'm going to go and they sit in their car and they sit in their car and then they decide not to go. And it's really hard to get out and to go. But you said there's no expectations. I'd love for you to talk a little bit more about what that would look like if they go into a meeting, demystify that for us a little bit to help people think. Okay. That maybe think that's something I could do.
Rodney Holmstrom: Yeah, yeah. And by the way, I've heard many, many, many testimonies of that very thing of I came came times and sat in my car and left and but the fourth time I came in. So that is a very real thing. It's scary. And I think that's the enemy scheme. So if I can create fear, you that your life's going to be over and there's no hope, that enemy is so such a deceiver. But yeah, as I was mentioning, I think that in that main meeting, I think that's where the Holy Spirit, we hear testimonies, we do worship. It's a corporate gathering where I think the Holy Spirit really kind of reveals a diagnosis. Hey, here's something that I want you to work on, Rodney. And then in that, as we come out of that general meeting, which is about an hour meeting, we go into our first small group experience on our general meeting night. And that's where gender specific groups, men are with men, women are with women. And they're just talking about the things that are going on in their life. Maybe it's a victory, a struggle, just an open shared discussion. But it's the place where we ah, where it's become one of my favorite things when I hear someone say, hey, what I'm about to tell you, I've never told you to anybody. And then they blurt it out and almost kind of float out of the room. So it's where that, that first healing happens. But you don't have to share. That's the beauty. You can say pass or just don't say anything and, and you'll, you can just be present in that group. But, but that's the kind of the gist of the, the general meeting. And then we have another type of a small group where we're getting into a curriculum where there's more specific questions, where we're digging in, what's Your family secret. Who have you heard hurt? How. What kind of that family of origin stuff to really understand the good reasons why we do what we do to get to that route that I was talking about before. but. But all of this, we, we kind of, we kind of walk through with a newcomer when they first come in to help them be equipped with every leg of the race, every step of the race. All you got to do is show up and. And just be. And we'll walk you through every step of the way. It's a safe group of people that will love you and meet you exactly where you are and help you get unst. Stuck from your hurts, hangups and habits.
Dr. Jessica Peck: You know, when people struggle with these kinds of things, I find, you know, that sometimes there's two different responses. One is, hey, that was in my past. It doesn't define me. I don't want to think about it like I'm moving on like that. But, you know, have not having addressed anything but just saying, like, I'm going to have a new way and that's going to be different. Or the other extreme of that is staying stuck in it. And everything is about that. And every, you know, every life experiences is still through the lens of that trauma. Both of those are not a trajectory towards healing. How does Celebrate Recovery help pull on both of those extremes to kind of unwind some things that you may have packed down in there that you don't realize or helping you move forward in some ways that you're stuck in grief or whatever that emotion is. How does Celebrate Recovery help move you on that healing trajectory?
Rodney Holmstrom: Yeah, I think, you know, for me, I think it was Dan Ellender that said that that sadness is what was meant to be and then another layer of grief is what isn't meant to be is. And when we sit in that reality and we allow ourselves to feel that for the first time, we express that pain out loud. But. But it's not just a, sometimes you can see in groups where it just kind of becomes a, A war story, circle. Right. We're not just there, right? Almost like we're. Oh, you think you got a bad. Let me tell you about my story.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Right.
Rodney Holmstrom: and I think the difference in that with we. We're talking about vulnerability earlier is
Vulnerability is honesty with intention
vulnerability is honesty with intention, not information for attention. So there is a strategy to move us, forward. I. There's an intentionality about why I'm sharing this. Not so that I can stay a victim, but to be a victor, to walk in this New No matter what has happened. And I was stuck in this pattern for a while, it's like, well, it makes sense why I do what I do. If you knew my story, you'd understand why I'm drinking and. Or whatever is.
Amber Brown: Is.
Rodney Holmstrom: That's a victim mentality. The owning the story is I'm going to share this with intentionality to move me in a different direction. While it makes sense why my story is hard, why I might be going to these survival instincts, protections, strategies, whatever, it doesn't mean I have to stay there. And so the intentionality is to organize the pain, take responsibility. You know, we talk about this often in recovery. That excuses protect my image, responsibility and honesty protect my recovery. And so when I can be curious about what it could be like to be rigorously honest to protect my recovery. Stop trying to protect your image, Rodney. Move into protecting your recovery. Recovery is getting you on this sanctification process to. To deal with all the baggage that may be keeping you stuck in that ditch. But the process is helping us be honest about what happened, take responsibility for our part and what we have done with the pain, even in abuse.
Amber Brown: And,
Rodney Holmstrom: And I was physically. I didn't. I don't think I mentioned that I was physically, verbally, emotionally, and sexually abused a little boy. So. So while I can say, well, that wasn't my fault, this is just my life. What it does become, though, it's not my fault, and that was not my fault. Nothing I could do would deserve that, but it does become my responsibility. I need to be honest about that because I don't want to be stuck in this ditch any longer. I want to move forward in a new path. And so I got to be honest about the ways I've coped with that pain through substances control, whatever the thing is, so that I can then get back to God's design, which means I got to be honest with that. And so the whole ministry is about being rigorously honest, not to make us feel bad, but to help us to move forward. Even the word emotion comes from that word. Motus. Right? To move us forward. I want to move forward. So when I share with honesty, it's with intentionality to take me in a different direction so I don't stay stuck back there any longer.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Rodney, I'm so sorry that you experienced that as a child. It just breaks my heart every time I hear of a child who encountered abuse, mistreatment like that. It just. It shouldn't be. And I know that we have a God who grieves Alongside of us, I know that we have a savior who is not unacquainted with suffering. And I know, just as you said at the beginning of the show, Rodney, that God doesn't waste pain. And in a way that we don't understand, he's still providing grace and he's still providing healing. He's still providing new mercies every morning. And the opposite of this, if you say, okay, well, I don't want to believe in a God who would let things like this happen, well, the opposite is. We look at the aces study, that path leads to death and destruction and disease and all kinds of horrible things, but God has given us a path toward recovery. And when we. We talk about, you know, you're talking about taking that path forward. Sometimes I think it's hard for people because they may not even recognize the dysfunction that they have. They may think, hey, I'm not an alcoholic. I don't. I don't have that. But you don't even recognize it's the people in your life who recognize it. And you may think of as something peripheral, like, oh, I've got a marriage problem. I got a relationship problem with my kids, you know, I got. Or whatever it is that might be. How can. How can we recognize when, you know, we just fallen into patterns of dysfunction with that, with. And just normalize them and think, okay, maybe this is for me too, because it's easy to think, oh, it's for somebody who has alcohol, drug abuse. But how is it for everybody who's experienced some. Some trauma that they haven't processed?
Rodney Holmstrom: Well, yeah, that's so good, because that is the reality when you hear the word recovery, my brain automatically talking about drugs and alcohol. But. But we have been trying to recover a broken image since the fall, right? And so that. That. That broken image we're trying to recover. So. So if. If we believe scripture to be true in that, that that happened and then Jesus came to not just make his kids that are behaving badly to behave better, but he actually, he calls us holy, that he wants to make his holy kids healthy, then I have to be honest and say, okay, maybe I don't have strategies of addictions or drugs or whatever, but what are the things that I run to? And what is the. What is the world's experience when they bump into me in conflict or do I let anybody into my heart and just being honest about those things of how do I. How do I respond to a broken world and do. Is it healthy? ask. Ask my wife, right Sometimes kind of joke about that I'm a great communicator. And then you ask my wife and she go, oh, maybe not as good a communicator as I thought. So sometimes we have a perspective, but when we ask the people around us saying, hey, I'm seeing this and. And so if you're seeing that and hearing that from other people, maybe be curious about the possibility of I need to trust these people around me and maybe lean into it. Though I don't go to drugs and alcohol. In fact, one in three people that come to Celebrate Recovery are dealing with addiction. Everyone else is dealing with the stuff underneath addictions, that we're addicted to something, whether it's people pleasing or perfectionism or control or whatever that is codependency. There's things that we have learned, our brain has learned, and you know this better than anybody, strategies that we've learned that have kept us alive. But it doesn't mean it's the right thing. And so how do I lean into that to invite Jesus into a new way? Is there something underneath the surface that's. That's robbing my peace, my. My hope, my joy, all those things up. Fruit of the spirit that I need to invite Jesus into that so that I can have a fulfilling life, not a perfect life. This doesn't take away the pain of a broken world, but it gives us the tools to face the broken world with courage and strength. And that's what we're trying to do. It's not just about drugs and alcohol, Hall. It's about all that other stuff. And what a cool thing that we have, a safe space as the church. This being of the hospital that. That is for us to. To allow ourselves to say, hey, I'm not. I'm not well and I. I'm ready to do something about it.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Yeah,
I've heard it said that the church is not a museum for saints. It's a hospital for sinners.
I've heard it said that the church is not a museum for saints. It's a hospital for sinners. And it really truly is. And we're coming to the end of our time together, Ronnie. It's gone too fast for me. Me. But you mentioned really quickly some of the other things that you might see in Celebrate Recovery. But can you give us just like a 1m minute rundown of other things that might. That. That Celebrate Recovery, the ways that Celebrate Recovery has helped people?
Rodney Holmstrom: Yeah, Yeah. I think, you know, codependency is a real common thing. It can be really confusing. But that's just where I put my value in what other people think about me. If, if you're. If you're having a bad day toward me, then I, I'm having a bad day. If things are good from your standpoint, that I'm going to have a good day. So I place my value and really all it is, is insecurity. So a lot of people come in with an insecurity in this, this, kind of overriding simmer of shame, right? These stories that we tell ourselves, in conflict or pain, we control low self esteem. And then there's things like the perfectionism. Perfectionism is one of the ways I introduce myself where a mistake equaled, failure. And it wasn't just I made a mistake, I am a mistake. And, and that was a part of that. Why do I have rigidity, toward myself that bled over on my wife and my, in my close relationships? Why do I have anger inside of me stirring this unresolved pain, Pain and fear that, I realize her.
Dr. Jessica Peck: You're not alone in that. Perfectionism was my own weapon of choice when I was choosing unhealthy coping mechanisms. And unfortunately, the world celebrates that more than they recognize dysfunction and some other kinds of addiction. But look, we're going to put all of the notes on Celebrate recovery and Rodney to date, myself, I will say I think this is the start of a beautiful friendship. I feel like we're going to have more conversations to come and wherever you are and taking that next step towards healing. I pray as I always do, that the Lord will bless you and keep you. Make his face to shine upon you. We'll see you here tomorrow. We'd like to thank our sponsors, including PreBorn.
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Jeff Chamblee: opinions expressed in this broadcast may not necessarily reflect those of the American Family association or American Family Radio.
Jessica talks with Rodney Holmstrom, Global Field Director for Celebrate Recovery, about finding hope, healing, freedom, and restoration in Christ.
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