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: and welcome to the Dr. Nurse Mama show, prescribing Hope for Healthy Families here on American Family Radio. Here's your host, professor, pediatric nurse practitioner,
: and mom of four, Dr. Jessica Peck.
Understanding God more deeply could change the way you live your everyday life
Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, hey there, friends, and welcome to my favorite time of day, getting to spend time with you, prescribing Hope for Healthy Families. And we are going to have a great chat today. This is a follow up to a show that we did earlier. We're going to talk about some theology today, but let me set it up for you because we all know we are living in an age of unprecedented access to information. No more. Is it only the encyclopedias Now, I grew up in that era where we didn't even have encyclopedias, but my grandparents did. And so that's where I would go for information. I remember reading those, reading the back of the cereal box. And now we, we just have all kinds of information, just unlimited at our fingertips, but very profound confusion about truth. That's the tension that we're living in. We have a lot of information, not a lot of truth. We scroll, scroll endlessly. We consume content constantly. We form our opinions very quickly, too. And I find myself even checking myself as I'm scrolling through social media or online to say, like, oh, that's a great tidbit, of information and thinking, wait a second, did I verify that? Do I even know that person? Is that even a real person or is that AI? And especially when it comes to knowing God, who he is, what he is, like, how he speaks. That's one of the most common questions that I hear is, is, does God speak to you? And, and how do you hear it? Many people feel very uncertain, intimidated, or disconnected. And in today's culture, theology is really primarily seen as academic, not something that's personal and not something that's applicable to families. But it is, and we'll show you how. And faith especially is often reduced to feelings. And as, my guest said just recently, feelings are not facts. And we are looking at, we need to base our faith on the truth, not necessarily on our feelings, because our feelings aren't always trustworthy or reliable.
Dr. Jessica Peck: And.
Dr. Jessica Peck: And God himself is frequently reshaped by culture into something more comfortable, more manageable, more culturally acceptable. And that is really concerning because even within the church, there can be a quiet drift. Like, we talk about God, but do we deeply know Him? We reference scripture, but do we really understand it? And we pursue inspiration, but really, shouldn't we be pursuing transformation? But here's my question for you today. What if theology isn't really as distant or as difficult as you thought? What if it's actually deeply personal, accessible? And not only that, it's essential for everyday life? Today's conversation is inviting us back to something really foundational. How do we know God rightly so that we can live rightly, so we can worship rightly? And if you've ever felt like theology is for someone else, for a pastor, for a scholar, for a professor, this conversation is for you. Because I'm telling you that, understanding God more deeply could actually change the way you live your everyday life.
Dr. Malcolm Yarnell writes Theology for Every Person series
I am really happy to welcome back Dr. Malcolm Yarnell. He's a theologian, an author, a research professor of theology at Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary. He's written extensively on, biblical historical, systematic theology. And he serves both the academic world and the local church. And we had him on before we talked about Book Word. This is a three book series. And we talked about Jesus and the theology of Jesus. And today, when this Theology for Every Person series, we're talking about God. And in this book, he makes a compelling case that theology is not just for scholars, but for every follower of Christ. Malcolm, I am so glad to have you back on. Thank you so much for joining us again.
Malcolm B. Yarnell III: Thank you for having me back, Jessica. I'm glad to be here.
Dr. Jessica Peck: I'm so glad that you're here too, Malcolm. And I believe everything that I just said in that introduction and set up about what generally we believe about theology. And when I open your book, which I have right here in my hands, and look at Theology for Every Person, this book is about God. In the preface, the very first sentence that you write is this. If you can read or hear these words, you are a theologian. That's a pretty bold claim, Malcolm. Let's start back and kind of review this, this Theology for Every, and let's talk about the heart behind it and why it's so important for everyday moms, dads, grandparents, people who are discipling their family to really embrace that mantle of theology.
Malcolm B. Yarnell III: You know, that's such a great question. I got to start with an interesting story.
Dr. Jessica Peck: I love it.
Malcolm B. Yarnell III: So, typically, whenever I, meet people in America, we like to ask, what do you do? So we want to know what people do for a living, how they. How they support themselves and their vocation, career or whatever. And inevitably, when I say, well, I am a theologian or a systematic theologian, all of a sudden there's this, like, this heaviness, and people are thinking, what is a theologian? What is a systematic theologian? I mean, I think I've heard of them before, but aren't they, like this strange creature in these ivory towers that are totally disconnected, from my reality? And I think that is just such an inappropriate view of what it means to be a theologian. So what I mean by that claim is this. Every human being is made in the image of God. And that means we are made for a relationship with God. And God relates to us not only through our will and through our emotions, which those are involved, but also through our mind. And so how we think about God, how we think about ourselves, how we think about the world in which we live and the journey that we're taking, that's what makes us a theologian. And so I want to encourage everyone to embrace the call that God has on your life, to love him with all of your heart, soul, mind and strength.
The term systematic theologian is intimidating
Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, Malcolm, the last time we had you on your show, my team and I were talking, and we're like, it was so great to talk to you because you did make it so accessible. But I can't help but laugh a little bit because I'm just imagining, you know, you walking into any social gathering and saying, I'm a systematic theologian. And everybody's like, okay, that's great for you. You know, I. It makes me think of, you know, my husband. And whenever we go somewhere, I say, I'm a nurse. And they say, oh, that's nice. Then my husband says, I'm a rocket scientist. And they're like, oh, that's so cool. And immediately, that's it. We're not gonna have anything else. But the truth is, that's intimidating. Even the. The. The term systematic theologian, if we're really honest, Malcolm, that's super intimidating. You are really, really smart. You do have a lot of degrees. You are a professor. But I'm convinced after reading your book that this is accessible. Why. But why do we feel so intimidated by it? Where do you think that comes from?
Malcolm B. Yarnell III: I think the intimidation comes from the fact that we are dealing with. First of all, we're dealing with God. And in reality, we cannot control God. We like to think about Things that we have some bit of control over. And the fact is that we can never control God. God is greater than we are. He's greater than our minds. He is actually the One who created, us, who maintains us. And one day we will stand before him and given an account. And so there's a bit of nervousness that we have because of the, limitlessness and the eternality and really the final judgment that we all have when we come before God. And so I think there's some bit of, even guilt that we carry. and I think that what we have to do is recognize that even that sense of guilt, that sense of fear, that sense of awesomeness, some of that is true. Others of it can be dealt with. I mean, the truth is this. God is greater than anyone or, anything ever. We will give an account for our lives before God in the end. But God loves us, and he has provided a way so that we can know him, and we can know him as. And know that our future is actually secured by his love for us. And so I want us to get to know God, to know His Son, to know His Spirit, to know his church, to know that there are things in this world that God is using even now, to bless us and to bless us forever. And so I, you know, for me, a lot of times people I will run into and they'll think theology, systematic theology. Oh, that's a list of things that people know. And, you know, it's creedal, it's dogmatic, and yes, it is all those things. But I think that when we think of theology, rather than thinking of a series of propositional statements, which is true, that we think of theology as a journey into knowing God and as we know God. I love how, Jon Calvin put this. As we come to know God, we will know ourselves better, and as we know ourselves better, we will know God better. And so being a theologian is just really knowing God. And it is knowing God in such a way that you are blessed in every moment by your coming to know more and more about and more about God.
Dr. Jessica Peck says kids are increasingly pressured to craft their own identity
Dr. Jessica Peck: Malcolm, I'm so encouraged by what you say, because what I see from my seat, looking as a pediatric clinician and seeing families who are raising children in this day and age, we see an identity crisis in the world. I mean, the kids are increasingly pressured to craft their own identity. It's called image crafting. And it really puts a lot of pressure on them that they have to create, somehow curate this perfect image of their life, and that they have to decide who they want to be and follow their heart, and all of these, you know, messages that the world gives them. But I love what you said, even in quoting Jon Calvin and saying, you know, really, that is the core. That's the core solution to the issue if kids are having an identity crisis, or even adults for that, for that matter, because we do as adults as well, if we cannot know who we are until we know who God is, because we are made in the image of God. And so it always goes back to learning the character of God. And yes, we can be struck by fear, by awesomeness of his power, but once you recognize and start to realize the depth of his love for us, it's incredible. And I think I shared this last time, but it's a quote I heard when I was a teenager. I have tried to source it. I don't know where it comes from, but I hold it to be true that if God was small enough to be understood, he wouldn't be big enough to be worshiped. And that's where we have to, you know, settle in that and accepting the sovereignty of God. But that can be really difficult to do.
Malcolm B. Yarnell III: Yeah, it can be. And if I could just also say a word about creating our own image, that does put too heavy of burden on a human being. And it also creates, it can create a sense of pride. Who among those who think that they can do such, Listen, we're not God. And even the best image that we can make of ourselves will never match the image that God has made us to be. The perfect image maker is God, and we are his image. You know, I think of, young people who often, are shaped by Instagram or whatever social media platform, and you see these beautiful pictures of videos, these ideals that people make of their lives, and you're like, oh, I can never match that. Well, listen, we're not intended to match anyone other than God, and God wants us to match Him. And even though our sin has taken and hurt our image, God wants to renew that within us. And so he invites us into a journey with His Son, Jesus Christ. And for me, this is the most encouraging part of what it means to be a theologian is to go on a journey and follow Jesus Christ. follower is. That's what disciple means, one who follows behind a master. Our master is Jesus Christ, who is God, come in the flesh, who has taken on our burdens, and refused all temptation and lived the perfect life. And he invites us to allow him to, to be the propitiation for our sins. If I can Use a big word, the sacrifice for our sins. And then to remake us and to renew us and to give us the goodness that we know that we lack. I think a lot of times we have difficulty with the idea of our own image because we look at ourselves and we see the flaws. When I look in the mirror, when I look in the picture camera or the video camera, even now I'm like, oh, there's that flaw. There's that flaw. And we know our flaws, but God looks at us and he doesn't look at us as how we are, as much as how we can be. And he is renewing us by His Holy Spirit into the image of His Son.
Dr. Jessica Peck: And I love it. I'm gonna hold you right there because we're already at our first break. This is exactly why families need to hear it. This is the message that we need to be pouring into the hearts of our families as they are pressured to create their own identity. There is such freedom in being created by God. We'll be right back with more on Theology for Every Person with Malcolm Yarnell. See you on the other side of this break.
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Thank You Jesus for the Blood by Charity Gayle: thank you Jesus for the blood applied. Thank you Jesus, it has washed me white. Thank you Jesus, you have saved my life, Brought me from the darkness into glorious light.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Welcome back, friends. That is thank you Jesus for the blood by charity. Gayle it's really hard for me not to let that song keep playing. That is one of my as, I say my top 10 and my like 147 songs that are in my top 10. But welcome back friends. We're talking about something that seems very inaccessible, that seems lofty, that seems maybe, if you're being honest, a little bit boring. We're talking about theology, but theology is more important now than ever. You know, when, when I was growing up, I'm a Gen Xer, and I think about how small the world was. Really the spiritual content that I was getting was from my local pastor, maybe pastors where I would go to camp. But now with streaming, we have all kinds of voices that are speaking into our lives, into the lives of our children, your grandchildren, and that are telling you who God is and what his plan is for your life. And it is more important now than ever for every person to be a theologian. And I'm talking Today with Professor Dr. Malcolm Yarnell, and he has written a book, a series called Theology for Every Person. We've already talked about Jesus, the Word in the one of these books, and today we're talking about God. And as you've already heard, theology isn't about intellectual achievement, it's about relational understanding. Malcolm is so good at really encouraging us, saying, this is not about making you smarter. This is about really the way that we translate our knowledge of God into the way that we live, into the way that we worship. And when we reclaim theology as something personal, it really begins to reshape how we see God and how we see ourselves. Because if theology is for everyone, then the question is, where do you begin? So we're going to talk about some foundational concepts of theology. But before we do, Malcolm, I want to go back because you're right in the middle of giving some really important advice about, About. For parents and for families who are guiding their children at home and, and people today who feel pressured to make this image of ourselves that is woefully inferior to the plans that God has for our lives. And I know that's from scripture, because, you know, he who began a good work will be faithful to complete it. And God's ways are higher than our ways there. His thoughts are higher than our thoughts, and our God can do exceedingly more than all we ask or imagine. And I want to go back to this because I think this is an important message for families who feel pressured to solve their kids problems through their own resources, through their own wisdom, through their own understanding. And God does give us those things, and those things are important. But without the foundational truth of who God is and why you're here, why you're created, then those things are just going to fall short. So I'd love for you just to finish what you were saying and finish your thoughts about that.
Malcolm B. Yarnell III: Yeah, thank you so much. I would have to say, especially for parents. So my wife and I raised five children. We have four grandchildren, and we're deeply involved in all of their lives. And they know that we as parents are not perfect, but they do know that we love them. And, they also understand that we. The way that Karen and I live our lives is that we are looking towards our perfection, not in ourselves, but in God, in Christ. And so out of our relationship with the Lord, we invite our children to join us in our journey, in the Christian journey into life with God. And that the problems we face in this world, which is a broken world, and we ourselves have been broken by the fall, that there is still hope and that God still loves us and wants to renew us and to make us into what we should be, into, vessels of joy and love and grace. Because God is joyful and love and grace. He is righteousness and holiness. He is blessedness and goodness and freedom.
Dr. Jessica Peck: And.
Malcolm B. Yarnell III: And you know what? He wants us to be like Him. And so the more we come to know who God really is, rather than what the world says about God or even our own speculations say about God, but what scripture says about God, then as we come to know him, we ourselves will be filled with great happiness and joy, realizing we're not where we should be yet. but we can trust in the One who is taking us by His Word and by His Spirit into an eternal relationship of blessedness with Him.
Dr. Jessica Peck: You know, you talk about it so naturally and make it so easy, and that's really how it should be in our families. And it takes some time. You've got to give yourself grace and space to get there if you are not there, if you're just starting out.
Malcolm Yarnell: There is true teaching and false teaching about God
But I think we've got to engage now, Malcolm, because as I said, you know, earlier, one of the biggest concerns I have is people really trying to put God in a box. And I can, you know, look at one reel on social media and hear someone saying something about the character and nature of God. And then you can open up another reel and somebody is saying something very, very different. These are very diametrically opposed, views of theology and how our kids interpret the world and, and issues that are contemporary culture issues. So how, how do we even begin in to wade through all of those voices and help them discern what is true? Because things that are not true sound really, really true.
Malcolm B. Yarnell III: Well, and we were warned. So you, know Scripture, Old Testament, New Testament, and Jesus himself warns us that there is true teaching and false teaching. And so that's just part of how it is so we need to learn how to discern. And Jesus put it this way. He said, if it were possible, even the elect would be led astray. In other words, there are false teachers and false prophets. So how do we go about discerning the truth? Well, we have the truth through the Word of God externally. We have the truth internally. When we ask and pray that the Lord will give us his Spirit to lead us into all truth. And so as we consult the Bible, and when I say consult the Bible, it's not just an individual enterprise. It's something that we do together. This is why we belong to churches. This is why we have families. This is why we have friends. And so we need to engage in a constant conversation about God in our own hearts and minds, with other people, in our own prayer lives, even recognizing that, yes, there will be false teachings. Now, what has made this even more difficult is we live in a highly technical age. And so we're very concerned about technique and things. Ah, like artificial intelligence, present this option that, hey, if you will just, you know, set out this artificial intelligence question, you'll get the answers you need. Well, listen, when it comes to the things of God, it doesn't work like that. How it works is that God himself encounters us through Scripture, which is being either read or taught through scripture and through His Spirit. And to, in order to access the Word properly, we must have the Holy Spirit. And all we have to do to have the Holy Spirit is just ask God to give his Spirit to us. And it's not a formula. It's just being open in your heart and saying, lord, I want to know the truth. Would you show me the truth? And he does show us the truth when we encounter the Word. And this is why I encourage people every day to read the Bible. And then, for families, as much as you can work it into your day, work it into your week to just talk about the Bible. And you don't have to have a huge, you know, thesis, set out, you don't have to write books. Right, I do that. You don't have to do that when you're doing it with your family. As a matter of fact, I would say my children love to read my books. But more than that, they just want to have a conversation with me. As we read the Word of God together and as we pour out, our prayers and our hearts together to the Lord, they get to know what the truth is as opposed to the falsehood. By living life with the Lord. And as we're doing that Other people will be invited to go on that journey with us. Theology.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Yeah, go ahead.
Malcolm B. Yarnell III: Theology is just us thinking about God. And the best theology is when we do that together.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Theology is thinking about God. I love that. And one of the things that I think that people are not thinking about, an emerging trend that I'm seeing, Malcolm, is this kind of concept of scripture light, like just sprinkling scriptures here and there. Like here's a story and here's a scripture. Or taking scriptures in isolation and saying, or even in fragments, like taking, some of the most common ones that I see are, judge not and then that's it. Or be anxious for nothing and then that's it. But it's really important now more than ever that we really talk about God in the context of the overarching story of the biblical narrative. That we look at the totality of his character at the, at the whole story, not just taking pieces out. And I've even seen, you know, even some people from the pulpit saying like, oh, we should get rid of the Old Testament, or this chapter isn't there anymore, that kind of thing. Can you speak a little bit to the importance of parents really helping their kids to understand the entirety of the biblical narrative and not just cherry picking verses to suit their cause at the moment?
Malcolm B. Yarnell III: Yeah. If you go about cherry picking the Bible, you can make it say all sorts of things that are not true. There's an old illustration, that was taught by a theologian by the name of Irenaeus in the second century, and he compared true theology versus false theology to a mosaic. In a mosaic you have these little stones of individual colors and you can arrange them to look like a king, or falsely, you can rearrange them to make them look like a dog or a wolf. The fact is, is that you need to make sure that you have the arrangement correctly of, the story and the story of all of life, including our individual parts in it is dominated three movements. There's the creation of all things. In the beginning there is. And. And this is God who is doing the creating, which means that he is moving all things to their proper end. And so at one extreme of time you have creation. At the other you have the end of all things. And standing in the middle of all of that is the cross and the resurrection of Jesus Christ. And so once you begin to recognize that everything that is is dominated by the God who is Father and Son and Holy Spirit, and that he has created all things and that he is bringing all things to their proper conclusion, and that he is rescuing humanity through the death and the resurrection of his son. Then all of it will fit together. Now, one thing we. Because we live in a technical age, we often think in what are really old Aristotelian philosophical terms. We put things in cubbyholes. That's not life. You're in the m. Medical field, you understand. The human body is not a machine that you can take apart. Its life is in the movement of these things together. It's the same thing with theology. It is in our life together with God and with one another that all of a sudden, you get the picture. The truth. some sad news. There are efforts even now from people who are trying to make a quick buck by writing Theology according to Artificial Intelligence. Tim Challis and Trevin Wax have recently talked about this. You can get on, your favorite bookseller and actually, find books written by people that don't exist, that are attempting to take and treat theology as if it's a bunch of facts. Listen, theology includes facts, but those facts are put together by life, and as you mentioned very early in the podcast, by a transformed life. And so life itself is not just a bunch of molecules, although the molecules are necessarily part of our bodies. The life is of the Spirit as well as of the molecules. And the Spirit that we have operative within us to give us life is God in His Holy Spirit. And in order to have life and to know goodness and to be a good theologian and a good Christian, we have to have a relationship with God. And that comes by his word, Jesus Christ, and by His Holy Spirit. And that's an organic rather than a mechanical thing.
One of the biggest critiques of AI is that it is a machine
Dr. Jessica Peck: I'm really glad you brought up the AI because AI is here. And one of the biggest critiques that I've seen that I think is valid of AI especially when we're talking about spiritual things, is that it is a machine. So it does not have the capacity to somehow harness the Holy Spirit in, in writing. It's. That's not happening. And that's something. That's a really big shift and why it's so important to walk with a pastor who is flesh and blood, who is a real person, who lives in your community, who is seeking the wisdom of God, who is seeking the counsel of the Holy Spirit. Those kinds of things are really important. And I, I cannot believe we're already coming up on our second break. My, my team is, is telling me this, and I just thinking, oh, this is going too fast. So, Malcolm, I will not ask you to start this answer before we go to break but after we go to break, well, I might as well ask you to, you know, give peace in the Middle East. But I want you to start to break down the concept of the Trinity because you talked about Father, Son and Holy Spirit. And I think this is one of the biggest mysteries of Christian life. And where what is God's role in all of that? How do we even begin to understand that? Because it can feel really complex. And we talked last time, Malcolm, about how it's okay for parents not to know all of the answers. It's okay to wrestle with this together. And when your kids have questions, it shouldn't generate fear. This is a good developmental sign. It means that they're separating from imitating your faith to making it their own, to wrestling with those things that are really difficult. So leaning into those questions and seeking guidance from somebody who, like, maybe, maybe you're fortunate enough to be neighbors with Malcolm, or maybe you can go to your pastor. That's what we did. We offered to take pastors to lunch. They said, hey, we'll buy you lunch. Come and answer these questions my son has in his notebook. But when we come back, we'll talk about that and we'll talk about knowing God. It's not about speculation. It's really revelation. God has made himself known, and our role is to receive and understand and respond to that truth. So we'll come back talking about theology, but theology for every person. And we're talking about God today with Malcolm Yarnell. If I haven't said it yet, this is such an important thing you need to be talking about at home. It's going to give your kids a sense of identity and purpose and security in a world that's anything but. We'll see you on the other side of this break.
: We live in a day when America's families are under attack like never before.
Buddy Smith: Buddy Smith, senior vice president of the American Family Association.
: The war against biblical principles rages on numerous fronts. The Internet, Hollywood, Washington, D.C. america's corporate boardrooms, and the list goes on. At American Family association, we're committed to standing against the enemies of God, the enemies of your family. And we recognize it's an impossible task without God's favor and your partnership. Thank you for being faithful to pray for this ministry, to give financially and to respond to our calls for activism. What you do on the home front is crucial to what we do on the battlefront. We praise God for your faithfulness and may he give us many victories in the battles ahead as we work together to restore our nation's Biblical foundations.
Make Room by Community Music and The Church Will Sing: To do whatever you want to to do whatever you want to I will make room for you to do whatever you want to to do whatever you want to
Dr. Jessica Peck: welcome back, friends. That is make Room by Community Music and the church will sing. And the thing that I hope you'll make room for in your family today, no matter what age or stage, I hope you will make room for theology in your life. We're talking to Dr. Malcolm Yarnell. He is the author of a book series called Theology for Every Person. And I've already told you, he said in this book, if you can read, if you can listen to these words, then you are a theologian. And now more than ever, our kids need to be grounded in the truth of God's word. We have so many voices that are all around. And this resource really helps families to understand who God is. Now we're going to be talking to families. American Family association is in July in Tupelo, Mississippi. So if you'd like to go to the Activate Summit, I'll be speaking there about the impacts of AI on pediatric growth and development and how it is impacting kids today. You can go to afa.netsummit. that's afa.netsummit. and going back to our conversation today, understanding who God is brings clarity, but it also invites a response. And so we're talking about what does that response look like in everyday life?
Scripture does reveal God is Trinity, Malcolm says
So, Malcolm, I said I was going to ask you about the Trinity. I mean, this is some tough. These are some theological deep waters that we're about to go into. Help us to make it more accessible for us every day.
Malcolm B. Yarnell III: Yeah, I mean, the first thing to say about God as Trinity is that Scripture does reveal God is Trinity. I mean, even in the first formal act of worship of a new Christian, you are confessing God as Trinity. Jesus commanded us, to go and to make disciples of all nations, baptizing them, and this is his language, baptizing them in the name singular of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. And so we believe in one God, one name. Yet he has a threefold name. He is the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit and the NewSong Testament. In so many ways, the Old Testament as well, foreshadows, but the NewSong Testament really clearly teaches us that God is Father and Son and Holy Spirit, and that God the Father sent his Son to become a human being and to take on our flesh. And he, the eternal word of God, died on the cross and arose from the dead and ascended again with his humanity to the right hand of the Father. And from there he rules forever. But God also sends his Holy Spirit to convince us of the truth of who Jesus Christ is and to unite us by faith, faith with Christ, so that we can live with God forever. God is Trinity. Now, that's hard to understand. But what we do know that Scripture teaches us is that the Father eternally generates the Son. What that means is that the Father and the Son have an eternal relationship that is sort of like a human parent and a human child. Everything that that parent is, so is that child. So you and I have children. Our children are as much human being as we are, and so they come from us. the same with the Holy Spirit, or better similarly, with the Holy Spirit. Jon 15:26 tells us that the Spirit proceeds from the Father. And so everything that the Spirit is so is the Father and so is the Son. As a matter of fact, Jesus said this. I and the Father are one. He also said, everything that the Father has is mine. I gotta tell you, my adult children would never say that about me. They would not say, that's my car, because my dad drives that car, right? And. And of course, I'm gonna give them everything I, can. But, but Jesus is, in his deity, everything that the Father is. And the Spirit has access to everything that. That God is and that the Son is, because he too is God. And we could go through so many scriptures proving this, but the fact is, is that God is three persons in one substance. Is the way that we have come to settle and talk about God as, Father and Son and Holy Spirit. One thing to note, this is a mystery, as you mentioned before. And it is a mystery that when we read Scripture, it constantly challenges us to remember that not even math, which we consider to be an arbiter of so much truth. And it is about this world. But math doesn't confine God. God created the world which operates by math. But God himself is not confined by math. That blows our minds. To say that God is eternal, that he is, before and above and beyond and after time, that blows our minds. And so when we encounter these great truths about who God is, that expand and go beyond our ability to comprehend, that ought not scare us. That ought to remind us that God is greater than our minds. If we could get our minds to contain the truth of God, we'd be greater than God. But we can't. God is greater than us. And that's why whenever I run into somebody who says to me, I think I've got the Trinity figured out. I, just kind of stepped back a little bit.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Bless your heart is what I'd say.
Malcolm B. Yarnell III: Yeah, nobody has God figured out. What we do know about God is that he is Trinity, but that's because he's revealed that to us, and so we believe that, and we believe in him, and therefore we worship him because he is so much greater than our minds.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, let's.
Malcolm B. Yarnell III: I love God.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Yes, of course. I do, too. Go ahead and finish what you're going to say, Malcolm.
Malcolm B. Yarnell III: Yeah, I mean, you know, early on in our conversation, you mentioned that sometimes, people might get a little bored by theology.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Yeah.
Malcolm B. Yarnell III: As you can tell, I never get bored by theology. Not because I'm unusual, but because God is so glorious. And the more you know about God and the more you know about God as Trinity, as Father and Son and Holy Spirit, and as of how he works in his inseparable operations, and how he embraces us with his love, and how one day he tells us we shall see Him. That to me, is so exciting, so full of goodness.
Dr. Jessica Peck: It is to me, too. And the more that I have learned about God, the more I have learned about God as Father, as provider, as sustainer, how faithful, how kind he's been in my life. Like, the more I long to know more. And you talked about that. You know, this theology is not just for us to say, like, oh, I've acquired a lot of knowledge. You want to talk about the Trinity, I will be able to tell you all of the verses. And let me display to you how intelligent I am. It's not that you talk about a different kind of response that this knowledge of God should elicit in us.
The Trinity is an invitation to love God and to love other people
So let's. Let's take that knowledge of the Trinity that you've just given us. How does that move us to action?
Malcolm B. Yarnell III: Yeah, it moves us to action in this way. God as Trinity means that he is eternally in a threefold relation with Himself. And this means that relationships are actually part of our very makeup. And so God as Father and Son and Holy Spirit is in an eternal triune love for Himself. And out of his overflowing love, he created this world. And he created this world for relationship with Him. He created human beings in his image in particular, so that we could have a relationship with Him. Now we know this. The relationship was broken because of the fall of Adam and Eve. And sin has corrupted us and actually harmed the image. And yet we are still loved by God. And. And so he calls us back into a relationship with Himself. The Trinity is the most sublime and majestic and intellectual. And yet it is also the closest. Because if God himself is the love of the Father and the Son and the Spirit for one another, and he invites us into that love, then we too, are created for relationship. And we're created for an eternal relationship of, blessedness and goodness, which are other attributes of God. So all the attributes of God are in who God is as the one simple triune God. And because he is a God of relational love, he made us for relationship and love with him primarily, but also with other people. We are created to have relationships. And to me, that is the most, practical part of the Trinity is that, yes, it blows our mind to think of God as three in one. And yet that's also an invitation to love God and to love other people and to know the joy, the eternal joy of a relationship with God and a relationship with other people. And no matter what the problems we have with other relationships, those problems can be overcome by a relationship with God who restores us to where we should be in our relationship with him and in our relationships with one another.
Dr. Jessica Peck: I also see the Trinity is so beautifully reflective of the arc of the biblical narrative. You know, when we talk about God, you put it in three parts. You know, we have the creation, and then we have the end of all things. And we have, in the middle of that, you said, the death and resurrection of Jesus.
Dr. Jessica Peck: And.
Dr. Jessica Peck: And when we look at God as, you know, God and then Jesus and then the Holy Spirit, we can see that those pieces of the story, you know, really working themselves through the biblical narrative.
Chapter 10 in your book is about God as savior
And chapter 10 in your book, Malcolm, is about God as savior. And really talking about the middle part of that story. Can you break that down and give us a little preview of what you help us to learn?
Malcolm B. Yarnell III: Yeah, I think that's chapter 10 may be the most important chapter in the book, because it's how we can know God as savior. I, mean, we know God in nature and in our consciences especially. We know that he is judge. all of us know. And it doesn't matter who you are. You have a sense that there is a God who has created all things and that you will have to give an account to Him. And in the end. And that's why, you know, human beings, every human being has a conscience. Now, we can sear that conscience or reduce that conscience, but we have a conscience that is reminding us that we're guilty of something and that we will have to give an account in the end, to a judge. And that judge is God. And that's what we know by what theologians call general revelation. General revelation. Revelation in nature lets us know there is a God who created all this beauty. Revelation in the conscience reminds us that, that we've got problems, that we're going to have to be accountable to him. And so God, out of his love, sends Jesus Christ to this world to die on the cross and to rise from the dead. And that is not general revelation. That's called special revelation. And that special revelation of, the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ for sinners who will believe in him, that is what scripture is focused on, is on the gospel, the death and the resurrection of Jesus Christ. This good news is how we're saved. How we're saved is simply this way. God has bridged the gap of judgment and sin between humanity and God by sending his Son to become a human being. And when he became a human being, he bridged that gap. And then he paid the price for our sins so that we could come and enter a relationship again with God in Christ by the Spirit. So general revelation, especially our conscience, lets us know that there's a coming judgment, but it doesn't let us know how we can be saved. Special revelation which is focused in Jesus Christ and then today is made available through the Bible. This special revelation tells us how we can be restored in a right relationship with God. And that is the gospel. That is the good news. If I could lay out the major revelations in scripture across the Old and NewSong Testament, it has to do with this old paradigm that you hear the reformers talk about, the law and the gospel. The law lets you know the bad news. You've got a problem, you're facing judgment, you will be judged. But the gospel, the good news, comes along to say God has a solution to the problem. And, that solution comes by the name of Jesus Christ.
Dr. Jessica Peck: And that is the encouraging hope that families need to have today. And I can see this playing out in everyday conversations because as kids are dealing with the daily pressures of life, they're dealing with bullying or fear or struggles, mental health issues, academic struggles, whatever it may be, as they're coming home. Yes, we can meet them. With those resources, we can tell them, I love you. I'm your mom. I love you. I'm here for you. I'm cheering for you. I think that you're the best person in the world. I love you. I'm going to try to make your childhood as great as it, as it can be. I can say all of those things, Malcolm, and then I can also say not only do I love you. God loves you even more than I do. He loves you more than you can possibly imagine. He created you. He has a plan for your life. He sent His Son to save you. And this world is not all there is. Because of the hope that was provided to us by God in Jesus, we can have life eternally. And at the end of the day, theology is not about having all the answers. It's about knowing and going to the One who does. In this world filled with noise, with confusion, with competing voices, there's something deeply grounding, I think, about returning to that truth. God has made Himself known, and he invites us to know Him. So today, don't settle for a distant or shallow understanding of God. Lean in. Open his word. Ask questions. Seek truth. Dive into theology because it's not just for the classroom. It's for your family and for your life. And as you dive in, I pray the Lord will bless you and keep you and make his face to shine upon you. And we'll see you right back here tomorrow.
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Understanding God more deeply could change the way you live your everyday life
Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, hey there, friends, and welcome to my favorite time of day, getting to spend time with you, prescribing Hope for Healthy Families. And we are going to have a great chat today. This is a follow up to a show that we did earlier. We're going to talk about some theology today, but let me set it up for you because we all know we are living in an age of unprecedented access to information. No more. Is it only the encyclopedias Now, I grew up in that era where we didn't even have encyclopedias, but my grandparents did. And so that's where I would go for information. I remember reading those, reading the back of the cereal box. And now we, we just have all kinds of information, just unlimited at our fingertips, but very profound confusion about truth. That's the tension that we're living in. We have a lot of information, not a lot of truth. We scroll, scroll endlessly. We consume content constantly. We form our opinions very quickly, too. And I find myself even checking myself as I'm scrolling through social media or online to say, like, oh, that's a great tidbit, of information and thinking, wait a second, did I verify that? Do I even know that person? Is that even a real person or is that AI? And especially when it comes to knowing God, who he is, what he is, like, how he speaks. That's one of the most common questions that I hear is, is, does God speak to you? And, and how do you hear it? Many people feel very uncertain, intimidated, or disconnected. And in today's culture, theology is really primarily seen as academic, not something that's personal and not something that's applicable to families. But it is, and we'll show you how. And faith especially is often reduced to feelings. And as, my guest said just recently, feelings are not facts. And we are looking at, we need to base our faith on the truth, not necessarily on our feelings, because our feelings aren't always trustworthy or reliable.
Dr. Jessica Peck: And.
Dr. Jessica Peck: And God himself is frequently reshaped by culture into something more comfortable, more manageable, more culturally acceptable. And that is really concerning because even within the church, there can be a quiet drift. Like, we talk about God, but do we deeply know Him? We reference scripture, but do we really understand it? And we pursue inspiration, but really, shouldn't we be pursuing transformation? But here's my question for you today. What if theology isn't really as distant or as difficult as you thought? What if it's actually deeply personal, accessible? And not only that, it's essential for everyday life? Today's conversation is inviting us back to something really foundational. How do we know God rightly so that we can live rightly, so we can worship rightly? And if you've ever felt like theology is for someone else, for a pastor, for a scholar, for a professor, this conversation is for you. Because I'm telling you that, understanding God more deeply could actually change the way you live your everyday life.
Dr. Malcolm Yarnell writes Theology for Every Person series
I am really happy to welcome back Dr. Malcolm Yarnell. He's a theologian, an author, a research professor of theology at Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary. He's written extensively on, biblical historical, systematic theology. And he serves both the academic world and the local church. And we had him on before we talked about Book Word. This is a three book series. And we talked about Jesus and the theology of Jesus. And today, when this Theology for Every Person series, we're talking about God. And in this book, he makes a compelling case that theology is not just for scholars, but for every follower of Christ. Malcolm, I am so glad to have you back on. Thank you so much for joining us again.
Malcolm B. Yarnell III: Thank you for having me back, Jessica. I'm glad to be here.
Dr. Jessica Peck: I'm so glad that you're here too, Malcolm. And I believe everything that I just said in that introduction and set up about what generally we believe about theology. And when I open your book, which I have right here in my hands, and look at Theology for Every Person, this book is about God. In the preface, the very first sentence that you write is this. If you can read or hear these words, you are a theologian. That's a pretty bold claim, Malcolm. Let's start back and kind of review this, this Theology for Every, and let's talk about the heart behind it and why it's so important for everyday moms, dads, grandparents, people who are discipling their family to really embrace that mantle of theology.
Malcolm B. Yarnell III: You know, that's such a great question. I got to start with an interesting story.
Dr. Jessica Peck: I love it.
Malcolm B. Yarnell III: So, typically, whenever I, meet people in America, we like to ask, what do you do? So we want to know what people do for a living, how they. How they support themselves and their vocation, career or whatever. And inevitably, when I say, well, I am a theologian or a systematic theologian, all of a sudden there's this, like, this heaviness, and people are thinking, what is a theologian? What is a systematic theologian? I mean, I think I've heard of them before, but aren't they, like this strange creature in these ivory towers that are totally disconnected, from my reality? And I think that is just such an inappropriate view of what it means to be a theologian. So what I mean by that claim is this. Every human being is made in the image of God. And that means we are made for a relationship with God. And God relates to us not only through our will and through our emotions, which those are involved, but also through our mind. And so how we think about God, how we think about ourselves, how we think about the world in which we live and the journey that we're taking, that's what makes us a theologian. And so I want to encourage everyone to embrace the call that God has on your life, to love him with all of your heart, soul, mind and strength.
The term systematic theologian is intimidating
Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, Malcolm, the last time we had you on your show, my team and I were talking, and we're like, it was so great to talk to you because you did make it so accessible. But I can't help but laugh a little bit because I'm just imagining, you know, you walking into any social gathering and saying, I'm a systematic theologian. And everybody's like, okay, that's great for you. You know, I. It makes me think of, you know, my husband. And whenever we go somewhere, I say, I'm a nurse. And they say, oh, that's nice. Then my husband says, I'm a rocket scientist. And they're like, oh, that's so cool. And immediately, that's it. We're not gonna have anything else. But the truth is, that's intimidating. Even the. The. The term systematic theologian, if we're really honest, Malcolm, that's super intimidating. You are really, really smart. You do have a lot of degrees. You are a professor. But I'm convinced after reading your book that this is accessible. Why. But why do we feel so intimidated by it? Where do you think that comes from?
Malcolm B. Yarnell III: I think the intimidation comes from the fact that we are dealing with. First of all, we're dealing with God. And in reality, we cannot control God. We like to think about Things that we have some bit of control over. And the fact is that we can never control God. God is greater than we are. He's greater than our minds. He is actually the One who created, us, who maintains us. And one day we will stand before him and given an account. And so there's a bit of nervousness that we have because of the, limitlessness and the eternality and really the final judgment that we all have when we come before God. And so I think there's some bit of, even guilt that we carry. and I think that what we have to do is recognize that even that sense of guilt, that sense of fear, that sense of awesomeness, some of that is true. Others of it can be dealt with. I mean, the truth is this. God is greater than anyone or, anything ever. We will give an account for our lives before God in the end. But God loves us, and he has provided a way so that we can know him, and we can know him as. And know that our future is actually secured by his love for us. And so I want us to get to know God, to know His Son, to know His Spirit, to know his church, to know that there are things in this world that God is using even now, to bless us and to bless us forever. And so I, you know, for me, a lot of times people I will run into and they'll think theology, systematic theology. Oh, that's a list of things that people know. And, you know, it's creedal, it's dogmatic, and yes, it is all those things. But I think that when we think of theology, rather than thinking of a series of propositional statements, which is true, that we think of theology as a journey into knowing God and as we know God. I love how, Jon Calvin put this. As we come to know God, we will know ourselves better, and as we know ourselves better, we will know God better. And so being a theologian is just really knowing God. And it is knowing God in such a way that you are blessed in every moment by your coming to know more and more about and more about God.
Dr. Jessica Peck says kids are increasingly pressured to craft their own identity
Dr. Jessica Peck: Malcolm, I'm so encouraged by what you say, because what I see from my seat, looking as a pediatric clinician and seeing families who are raising children in this day and age, we see an identity crisis in the world. I mean, the kids are increasingly pressured to craft their own identity. It's called image crafting. And it really puts a lot of pressure on them that they have to create, somehow curate this perfect image of their life, and that they have to decide who they want to be and follow their heart, and all of these, you know, messages that the world gives them. But I love what you said, even in quoting Jon Calvin and saying, you know, really, that is the core. That's the core solution to the issue if kids are having an identity crisis, or even adults for that, for that matter, because we do as adults as well, if we cannot know who we are until we know who God is, because we are made in the image of God. And so it always goes back to learning the character of God. And yes, we can be struck by fear, by awesomeness of his power, but once you recognize and start to realize the depth of his love for us, it's incredible. And I think I shared this last time, but it's a quote I heard when I was a teenager. I have tried to source it. I don't know where it comes from, but I hold it to be true that if God was small enough to be understood, he wouldn't be big enough to be worshiped. And that's where we have to, you know, settle in that and accepting the sovereignty of God. But that can be really difficult to do.
Malcolm B. Yarnell III: Yeah, it can be. And if I could just also say a word about creating our own image, that does put too heavy of burden on a human being. And it also creates, it can create a sense of pride. Who among those who think that they can do such, Listen, we're not God. And even the best image that we can make of ourselves will never match the image that God has made us to be. The perfect image maker is God, and we are his image. You know, I think of, young people who often, are shaped by Instagram or whatever social media platform, and you see these beautiful pictures of videos, these ideals that people make of their lives, and you're like, oh, I can never match that. Well, listen, we're not intended to match anyone other than God, and God wants us to match Him. And even though our sin has taken and hurt our image, God wants to renew that within us. And so he invites us into a journey with His Son, Jesus Christ. And for me, this is the most encouraging part of what it means to be a theologian is to go on a journey and follow Jesus Christ. follower is. That's what disciple means, one who follows behind a master. Our master is Jesus Christ, who is God, come in the flesh, who has taken on our burdens, and refused all temptation and lived the perfect life. And he invites us to allow him to, to be the propitiation for our sins. If I can Use a big word, the sacrifice for our sins. And then to remake us and to renew us and to give us the goodness that we know that we lack. I think a lot of times we have difficulty with the idea of our own image because we look at ourselves and we see the flaws. When I look in the mirror, when I look in the picture camera or the video camera, even now I'm like, oh, there's that flaw. There's that flaw. And we know our flaws, but God looks at us and he doesn't look at us as how we are, as much as how we can be. And he is renewing us by His Holy Spirit into the image of His Son.
Dr. Jessica Peck: And I love it. I'm gonna hold you right there because we're already at our first break. This is exactly why families need to hear it. This is the message that we need to be pouring into the hearts of our families as they are pressured to create their own identity. There is such freedom in being created by God. We'll be right back with more on Theology for Every Person with Malcolm Yarnell. See you on the other side of this break.
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Thank You Jesus for the Blood by Charity Gayle: thank you Jesus for the blood applied. Thank you Jesus, it has washed me white. Thank you Jesus, you have saved my life, Brought me from the darkness into glorious light.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Welcome back, friends. That is thank you Jesus for the blood by charity. Gayle it's really hard for me not to let that song keep playing. That is one of my as, I say my top 10 and my like 147 songs that are in my top 10. But welcome back friends. We're talking about something that seems very inaccessible, that seems lofty, that seems maybe, if you're being honest, a little bit boring. We're talking about theology, but theology is more important now than ever. You know, when, when I was growing up, I'm a Gen Xer, and I think about how small the world was. Really the spiritual content that I was getting was from my local pastor, maybe pastors where I would go to camp. But now with streaming, we have all kinds of voices that are speaking into our lives, into the lives of our children, your grandchildren, and that are telling you who God is and what his plan is for your life. And it is more important now than ever for every person to be a theologian. And I'm talking Today with Professor Dr. Malcolm Yarnell, and he has written a book, a series called Theology for Every Person. We've already talked about Jesus, the Word in the one of these books, and today we're talking about God. And as you've already heard, theology isn't about intellectual achievement, it's about relational understanding. Malcolm is so good at really encouraging us, saying, this is not about making you smarter. This is about really the way that we translate our knowledge of God into the way that we live, into the way that we worship. And when we reclaim theology as something personal, it really begins to reshape how we see God and how we see ourselves. Because if theology is for everyone, then the question is, where do you begin? So we're going to talk about some foundational concepts of theology. But before we do, Malcolm, I want to go back because you're right in the middle of giving some really important advice about, About. For parents and for families who are guiding their children at home and, and people today who feel pressured to make this image of ourselves that is woefully inferior to the plans that God has for our lives. And I know that's from scripture, because, you know, he who began a good work will be faithful to complete it. And God's ways are higher than our ways there. His thoughts are higher than our thoughts, and our God can do exceedingly more than all we ask or imagine. And I want to go back to this because I think this is an important message for families who feel pressured to solve their kids problems through their own resources, through their own wisdom, through their own understanding. And God does give us those things, and those things are important. But without the foundational truth of who God is and why you're here, why you're created, then those things are just going to fall short. So I'd love for you just to finish what you were saying and finish your thoughts about that.
Malcolm B. Yarnell III: Yeah, thank you so much. I would have to say, especially for parents. So my wife and I raised five children. We have four grandchildren, and we're deeply involved in all of their lives. And they know that we as parents are not perfect, but they do know that we love them. And, they also understand that we. The way that Karen and I live our lives is that we are looking towards our perfection, not in ourselves, but in God, in Christ. And so out of our relationship with the Lord, we invite our children to join us in our journey, in the Christian journey into life with God. And that the problems we face in this world, which is a broken world, and we ourselves have been broken by the fall, that there is still hope and that God still loves us and wants to renew us and to make us into what we should be, into, vessels of joy and love and grace. Because God is joyful and love and grace. He is righteousness and holiness. He is blessedness and goodness and freedom.
Dr. Jessica Peck: And.
Malcolm B. Yarnell III: And you know what? He wants us to be like Him. And so the more we come to know who God really is, rather than what the world says about God or even our own speculations say about God, but what scripture says about God, then as we come to know him, we ourselves will be filled with great happiness and joy, realizing we're not where we should be yet. but we can trust in the One who is taking us by His Word and by His Spirit into an eternal relationship of blessedness with Him.
Dr. Jessica Peck: You know, you talk about it so naturally and make it so easy, and that's really how it should be in our families. And it takes some time. You've got to give yourself grace and space to get there if you are not there, if you're just starting out.
Malcolm Yarnell: There is true teaching and false teaching about God
But I think we've got to engage now, Malcolm, because as I said, you know, earlier, one of the biggest concerns I have is people really trying to put God in a box. And I can, you know, look at one reel on social media and hear someone saying something about the character and nature of God. And then you can open up another reel and somebody is saying something very, very different. These are very diametrically opposed, views of theology and how our kids interpret the world and, and issues that are contemporary culture issues. So how, how do we even begin in to wade through all of those voices and help them discern what is true? Because things that are not true sound really, really true.
Malcolm B. Yarnell III: Well, and we were warned. So you, know Scripture, Old Testament, New Testament, and Jesus himself warns us that there is true teaching and false teaching. And so that's just part of how it is so we need to learn how to discern. And Jesus put it this way. He said, if it were possible, even the elect would be led astray. In other words, there are false teachers and false prophets. So how do we go about discerning the truth? Well, we have the truth through the Word of God externally. We have the truth internally. When we ask and pray that the Lord will give us his Spirit to lead us into all truth. And so as we consult the Bible, and when I say consult the Bible, it's not just an individual enterprise. It's something that we do together. This is why we belong to churches. This is why we have families. This is why we have friends. And so we need to engage in a constant conversation about God in our own hearts and minds, with other people, in our own prayer lives, even recognizing that, yes, there will be false teachings. Now, what has made this even more difficult is we live in a highly technical age. And so we're very concerned about technique and things. Ah, like artificial intelligence, present this option that, hey, if you will just, you know, set out this artificial intelligence question, you'll get the answers you need. Well, listen, when it comes to the things of God, it doesn't work like that. How it works is that God himself encounters us through Scripture, which is being either read or taught through scripture and through His Spirit. And to, in order to access the Word properly, we must have the Holy Spirit. And all we have to do to have the Holy Spirit is just ask God to give his Spirit to us. And it's not a formula. It's just being open in your heart and saying, lord, I want to know the truth. Would you show me the truth? And he does show us the truth when we encounter the Word. And this is why I encourage people every day to read the Bible. And then, for families, as much as you can work it into your day, work it into your week to just talk about the Bible. And you don't have to have a huge, you know, thesis, set out, you don't have to write books. Right, I do that. You don't have to do that when you're doing it with your family. As a matter of fact, I would say my children love to read my books. But more than that, they just want to have a conversation with me. As we read the Word of God together and as we pour out, our prayers and our hearts together to the Lord, they get to know what the truth is as opposed to the falsehood. By living life with the Lord. And as we're doing that Other people will be invited to go on that journey with us. Theology.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Yeah, go ahead.
Malcolm B. Yarnell III: Theology is just us thinking about God. And the best theology is when we do that together.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Theology is thinking about God. I love that. And one of the things that I think that people are not thinking about, an emerging trend that I'm seeing, Malcolm, is this kind of concept of scripture light, like just sprinkling scriptures here and there. Like here's a story and here's a scripture. Or taking scriptures in isolation and saying, or even in fragments, like taking, some of the most common ones that I see are, judge not and then that's it. Or be anxious for nothing and then that's it. But it's really important now more than ever that we really talk about God in the context of the overarching story of the biblical narrative. That we look at the totality of his character at the, at the whole story, not just taking pieces out. And I've even seen, you know, even some people from the pulpit saying like, oh, we should get rid of the Old Testament, or this chapter isn't there anymore, that kind of thing. Can you speak a little bit to the importance of parents really helping their kids to understand the entirety of the biblical narrative and not just cherry picking verses to suit their cause at the moment?
Malcolm B. Yarnell III: Yeah. If you go about cherry picking the Bible, you can make it say all sorts of things that are not true. There's an old illustration, that was taught by a theologian by the name of Irenaeus in the second century, and he compared true theology versus false theology to a mosaic. In a mosaic you have these little stones of individual colors and you can arrange them to look like a king, or falsely, you can rearrange them to make them look like a dog or a wolf. The fact is, is that you need to make sure that you have the arrangement correctly of, the story and the story of all of life, including our individual parts in it is dominated three movements. There's the creation of all things. In the beginning there is. And. And this is God who is doing the creating, which means that he is moving all things to their proper end. And so at one extreme of time you have creation. At the other you have the end of all things. And standing in the middle of all of that is the cross and the resurrection of Jesus Christ. And so once you begin to recognize that everything that is is dominated by the God who is Father and Son and Holy Spirit, and that he has created all things and that he is bringing all things to their proper conclusion, and that he is rescuing humanity through the death and the resurrection of his son. Then all of it will fit together. Now, one thing we. Because we live in a technical age, we often think in what are really old Aristotelian philosophical terms. We put things in cubbyholes. That's not life. You're in the m. Medical field, you understand. The human body is not a machine that you can take apart. Its life is in the movement of these things together. It's the same thing with theology. It is in our life together with God and with one another that all of a sudden, you get the picture. The truth. some sad news. There are efforts even now from people who are trying to make a quick buck by writing Theology according to Artificial Intelligence. Tim Challis and Trevin Wax have recently talked about this. You can get on, your favorite bookseller and actually, find books written by people that don't exist, that are attempting to take and treat theology as if it's a bunch of facts. Listen, theology includes facts, but those facts are put together by life, and as you mentioned very early in the podcast, by a transformed life. And so life itself is not just a bunch of molecules, although the molecules are necessarily part of our bodies. The life is of the Spirit as well as of the molecules. And the Spirit that we have operative within us to give us life is God in His Holy Spirit. And in order to have life and to know goodness and to be a good theologian and a good Christian, we have to have a relationship with God. And that comes by his word, Jesus Christ, and by His Holy Spirit. And that's an organic rather than a mechanical thing.
One of the biggest critiques of AI is that it is a machine
Dr. Jessica Peck: I'm really glad you brought up the AI because AI is here. And one of the biggest critiques that I've seen that I think is valid of AI especially when we're talking about spiritual things, is that it is a machine. So it does not have the capacity to somehow harness the Holy Spirit in, in writing. It's. That's not happening. And that's something. That's a really big shift and why it's so important to walk with a pastor who is flesh and blood, who is a real person, who lives in your community, who is seeking the wisdom of God, who is seeking the counsel of the Holy Spirit. Those kinds of things are really important. And I, I cannot believe we're already coming up on our second break. My, my team is, is telling me this, and I just thinking, oh, this is going too fast. So, Malcolm, I will not ask you to start this answer before we go to break but after we go to break, well, I might as well ask you to, you know, give peace in the Middle East. But I want you to start to break down the concept of the Trinity because you talked about Father, Son and Holy Spirit. And I think this is one of the biggest mysteries of Christian life. And where what is God's role in all of that? How do we even begin to understand that? Because it can feel really complex. And we talked last time, Malcolm, about how it's okay for parents not to know all of the answers. It's okay to wrestle with this together. And when your kids have questions, it shouldn't generate fear. This is a good developmental sign. It means that they're separating from imitating your faith to making it their own, to wrestling with those things that are really difficult. So leaning into those questions and seeking guidance from somebody who, like, maybe, maybe you're fortunate enough to be neighbors with Malcolm, or maybe you can go to your pastor. That's what we did. We offered to take pastors to lunch. They said, hey, we'll buy you lunch. Come and answer these questions my son has in his notebook. But when we come back, we'll talk about that and we'll talk about knowing God. It's not about speculation. It's really revelation. God has made himself known, and our role is to receive and understand and respond to that truth. So we'll come back talking about theology, but theology for every person. And we're talking about God today with Malcolm Yarnell. If I haven't said it yet, this is such an important thing you need to be talking about at home. It's going to give your kids a sense of identity and purpose and security in a world that's anything but. We'll see you on the other side of this break.
: We live in a day when America's families are under attack like never before.
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: The war against biblical principles rages on numerous fronts. The Internet, Hollywood, Washington, D.C. america's corporate boardrooms, and the list goes on. At American Family association, we're committed to standing against the enemies of God, the enemies of your family. And we recognize it's an impossible task without God's favor and your partnership. Thank you for being faithful to pray for this ministry, to give financially and to respond to our calls for activism. What you do on the home front is crucial to what we do on the battlefront. We praise God for your faithfulness and may he give us many victories in the battles ahead as we work together to restore our nation's Biblical foundations.
Make Room by Community Music and The Church Will Sing: To do whatever you want to to do whatever you want to I will make room for you to do whatever you want to to do whatever you want to
Dr. Jessica Peck: welcome back, friends. That is make Room by Community Music and the church will sing. And the thing that I hope you'll make room for in your family today, no matter what age or stage, I hope you will make room for theology in your life. We're talking to Dr. Malcolm Yarnell. He is the author of a book series called Theology for Every Person. And I've already told you, he said in this book, if you can read, if you can listen to these words, then you are a theologian. And now more than ever, our kids need to be grounded in the truth of God's word. We have so many voices that are all around. And this resource really helps families to understand who God is. Now we're going to be talking to families. American Family association is in July in Tupelo, Mississippi. So if you'd like to go to the Activate Summit, I'll be speaking there about the impacts of AI on pediatric growth and development and how it is impacting kids today. You can go to afa.netsummit. that's afa.netsummit. and going back to our conversation today, understanding who God is brings clarity, but it also invites a response. And so we're talking about what does that response look like in everyday life?
Scripture does reveal God is Trinity, Malcolm says
So, Malcolm, I said I was going to ask you about the Trinity. I mean, this is some tough. These are some theological deep waters that we're about to go into. Help us to make it more accessible for us every day.
Malcolm B. Yarnell III: Yeah, I mean, the first thing to say about God as Trinity is that Scripture does reveal God is Trinity. I mean, even in the first formal act of worship of a new Christian, you are confessing God as Trinity. Jesus commanded us, to go and to make disciples of all nations, baptizing them, and this is his language, baptizing them in the name singular of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. And so we believe in one God, one name. Yet he has a threefold name. He is the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit and the NewSong Testament. In so many ways, the Old Testament as well, foreshadows, but the NewSong Testament really clearly teaches us that God is Father and Son and Holy Spirit, and that God the Father sent his Son to become a human being and to take on our flesh. And he, the eternal word of God, died on the cross and arose from the dead and ascended again with his humanity to the right hand of the Father. And from there he rules forever. But God also sends his Holy Spirit to convince us of the truth of who Jesus Christ is and to unite us by faith, faith with Christ, so that we can live with God forever. God is Trinity. Now, that's hard to understand. But what we do know that Scripture teaches us is that the Father eternally generates the Son. What that means is that the Father and the Son have an eternal relationship that is sort of like a human parent and a human child. Everything that that parent is, so is that child. So you and I have children. Our children are as much human being as we are, and so they come from us. the same with the Holy Spirit, or better similarly, with the Holy Spirit. Jon 15:26 tells us that the Spirit proceeds from the Father. And so everything that the Spirit is so is the Father and so is the Son. As a matter of fact, Jesus said this. I and the Father are one. He also said, everything that the Father has is mine. I gotta tell you, my adult children would never say that about me. They would not say, that's my car, because my dad drives that car, right? And. And of course, I'm gonna give them everything I, can. But, but Jesus is, in his deity, everything that the Father is. And the Spirit has access to everything that. That God is and that the Son is, because he too is God. And we could go through so many scriptures proving this, but the fact is, is that God is three persons in one substance. Is the way that we have come to settle and talk about God as, Father and Son and Holy Spirit. One thing to note, this is a mystery, as you mentioned before. And it is a mystery that when we read Scripture, it constantly challenges us to remember that not even math, which we consider to be an arbiter of so much truth. And it is about this world. But math doesn't confine God. God created the world which operates by math. But God himself is not confined by math. That blows our minds. To say that God is eternal, that he is, before and above and beyond and after time, that blows our minds. And so when we encounter these great truths about who God is, that expand and go beyond our ability to comprehend, that ought not scare us. That ought to remind us that God is greater than our minds. If we could get our minds to contain the truth of God, we'd be greater than God. But we can't. God is greater than us. And that's why whenever I run into somebody who says to me, I think I've got the Trinity figured out. I, just kind of stepped back a little bit.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Bless your heart is what I'd say.
Malcolm B. Yarnell III: Yeah, nobody has God figured out. What we do know about God is that he is Trinity, but that's because he's revealed that to us, and so we believe that, and we believe in him, and therefore we worship him because he is so much greater than our minds.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, let's.
Malcolm B. Yarnell III: I love God.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Yes, of course. I do, too. Go ahead and finish what you're going to say, Malcolm.
Malcolm B. Yarnell III: Yeah, I mean, you know, early on in our conversation, you mentioned that sometimes, people might get a little bored by theology.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Yeah.
Malcolm B. Yarnell III: As you can tell, I never get bored by theology. Not because I'm unusual, but because God is so glorious. And the more you know about God and the more you know about God as Trinity, as Father and Son and Holy Spirit, and as of how he works in his inseparable operations, and how he embraces us with his love, and how one day he tells us we shall see Him. That to me, is so exciting, so full of goodness.
Dr. Jessica Peck: It is to me, too. And the more that I have learned about God, the more I have learned about God as Father, as provider, as sustainer, how faithful, how kind he's been in my life. Like, the more I long to know more. And you talked about that. You know, this theology is not just for us to say, like, oh, I've acquired a lot of knowledge. You want to talk about the Trinity, I will be able to tell you all of the verses. And let me display to you how intelligent I am. It's not that you talk about a different kind of response that this knowledge of God should elicit in us.
The Trinity is an invitation to love God and to love other people
So let's. Let's take that knowledge of the Trinity that you've just given us. How does that move us to action?
Malcolm B. Yarnell III: Yeah, it moves us to action in this way. God as Trinity means that he is eternally in a threefold relation with Himself. And this means that relationships are actually part of our very makeup. And so God as Father and Son and Holy Spirit is in an eternal triune love for Himself. And out of his overflowing love, he created this world. And he created this world for relationship with Him. He created human beings in his image in particular, so that we could have a relationship with Him. Now we know this. The relationship was broken because of the fall of Adam and Eve. And sin has corrupted us and actually harmed the image. And yet we are still loved by God. And. And so he calls us back into a relationship with Himself. The Trinity is the most sublime and majestic and intellectual. And yet it is also the closest. Because if God himself is the love of the Father and the Son and the Spirit for one another, and he invites us into that love, then we too, are created for relationship. And we're created for an eternal relationship of, blessedness and goodness, which are other attributes of God. So all the attributes of God are in who God is as the one simple triune God. And because he is a God of relational love, he made us for relationship and love with him primarily, but also with other people. We are created to have relationships. And to me, that is the most, practical part of the Trinity is that, yes, it blows our mind to think of God as three in one. And yet that's also an invitation to love God and to love other people and to know the joy, the eternal joy of a relationship with God and a relationship with other people. And no matter what the problems we have with other relationships, those problems can be overcome by a relationship with God who restores us to where we should be in our relationship with him and in our relationships with one another.
Dr. Jessica Peck: I also see the Trinity is so beautifully reflective of the arc of the biblical narrative. You know, when we talk about God, you put it in three parts. You know, we have the creation, and then we have the end of all things. And we have, in the middle of that, you said, the death and resurrection of Jesus.
Dr. Jessica Peck: And.
Dr. Jessica Peck: And when we look at God as, you know, God and then Jesus and then the Holy Spirit, we can see that those pieces of the story, you know, really working themselves through the biblical narrative.
Chapter 10 in your book is about God as savior
And chapter 10 in your book, Malcolm, is about God as savior. And really talking about the middle part of that story. Can you break that down and give us a little preview of what you help us to learn?
Malcolm B. Yarnell III: Yeah, I think that's chapter 10 may be the most important chapter in the book, because it's how we can know God as savior. I, mean, we know God in nature and in our consciences especially. We know that he is judge. all of us know. And it doesn't matter who you are. You have a sense that there is a God who has created all things and that you will have to give an account to Him. And in the end. And that's why, you know, human beings, every human being has a conscience. Now, we can sear that conscience or reduce that conscience, but we have a conscience that is reminding us that we're guilty of something and that we will have to give an account in the end, to a judge. And that judge is God. And that's what we know by what theologians call general revelation. General revelation. Revelation in nature lets us know there is a God who created all this beauty. Revelation in the conscience reminds us that, that we've got problems, that we're going to have to be accountable to him. And so God, out of his love, sends Jesus Christ to this world to die on the cross and to rise from the dead. And that is not general revelation. That's called special revelation. And that special revelation of, the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ for sinners who will believe in him, that is what scripture is focused on, is on the gospel, the death and the resurrection of Jesus Christ. This good news is how we're saved. How we're saved is simply this way. God has bridged the gap of judgment and sin between humanity and God by sending his Son to become a human being. And when he became a human being, he bridged that gap. And then he paid the price for our sins so that we could come and enter a relationship again with God in Christ by the Spirit. So general revelation, especially our conscience, lets us know that there's a coming judgment, but it doesn't let us know how we can be saved. Special revelation which is focused in Jesus Christ and then today is made available through the Bible. This special revelation tells us how we can be restored in a right relationship with God. And that is the gospel. That is the good news. If I could lay out the major revelations in scripture across the Old and NewSong Testament, it has to do with this old paradigm that you hear the reformers talk about, the law and the gospel. The law lets you know the bad news. You've got a problem, you're facing judgment, you will be judged. But the gospel, the good news, comes along to say God has a solution to the problem. And, that solution comes by the name of Jesus Christ.
Dr. Jessica Peck: And that is the encouraging hope that families need to have today. And I can see this playing out in everyday conversations because as kids are dealing with the daily pressures of life, they're dealing with bullying or fear or struggles, mental health issues, academic struggles, whatever it may be, as they're coming home. Yes, we can meet them. With those resources, we can tell them, I love you. I'm your mom. I love you. I'm here for you. I'm cheering for you. I think that you're the best person in the world. I love you. I'm going to try to make your childhood as great as it, as it can be. I can say all of those things, Malcolm, and then I can also say not only do I love you. God loves you even more than I do. He loves you more than you can possibly imagine. He created you. He has a plan for your life. He sent His Son to save you. And this world is not all there is. Because of the hope that was provided to us by God in Jesus, we can have life eternally. And at the end of the day, theology is not about having all the answers. It's about knowing and going to the One who does. In this world filled with noise, with confusion, with competing voices, there's something deeply grounding, I think, about returning to that truth. God has made Himself known, and he invites us to know Him. So today, don't settle for a distant or shallow understanding of God. Lean in. Open his word. Ask questions. Seek truth. Dive into theology because it's not just for the classroom. It's for your family and for your life. And as you dive in, I pray the Lord will bless you and keep you and make his face to shine upon you. And we'll see you right back here tomorrow.
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Theologian and author Malcolm B. Yarnell says theology doesn't have to be intimidating. He and Jessica discuss the "Theology for Every Person" series and the overreaching story of the Bible.
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