Dr. Jessica Peck shares her thoughts on parenting on American Family Radio
Hello and welcome to the Dr. Nurse Mama show, prescribing Hope for Healthy Families here on American Family Radio. Here's your host, professor, pediatric nurse practitioner, and mom of four, Dr. Jessica Peck.
Dr. Jessica Peck Well, hey there, friends, and welcome to my favorite time of day, getting to spend time with you, prescribing Hope for Healthy Families. And we have got an encouraging program ahead of you today. Today we're going to dive into parenting, but this is really for anyone who is invest in children around you. And that should really be everyone, whether you're a grandparent, a teacher, a coach, an aunt, an uncle, just someone who is invested in kids in your community. All of us, we look at younger generations and we want children, and especially parents. We want our kids to grow into healthy, responsible, faithful adults who love God and serve others. That is the bottom line of what we want. Yet a lot of parents, and I'm right there with you, just feel defeated and discouraged and like we're losing ground. And we give this mess messaging to kids all the time that this is a terrible time to be alive. And culture is moving faster than we are. Culture is more intentional than we are. We talked about that in a lot of other contents, context. And we know that algorithms, especially in the last couple of years, are just learning in dog years. They are so fast. And they are discipling our children before we even take our breakfast, honestly, because they're in social media and it rewards feelings over truth. Entertainment is normalizing things that scripture calls harmful. And we're sitting here giving this countercultural messaging, and we wonder, can we do it? Is it effective? Because we see all of the competing influences, schools and peers and influencers online and AI. And meanwhile, there's many Christian parents who are faithfully driving to church every week. They're taking their kids to youth group volunteering, and secretly, we're kind of just hoping that's enough. But today's culture isn't merely influencing our children. It is actively discipling them. Technology is not neutral, especially when it comes to AI. AI is actively shaping our children's worldview. And the question isn't whether our. Our children are being discipled or not. It is who is doing the primary discipling. And research continues to show that many young adults walk away from church after graduation. They leave their faith. They deconst. This is a fear that we have in our hearts as parents. And we wonder, what happened? What did I do wrong? But perhaps we're asking the wrong questions. Maybe the questions we're asking is what we should be Asking, even right now, even before your children are born, what kind of 30 year old disciple do I hope my child becomes? What is the long game here? And that shift in perspective is exactly what today's guest calls backward discipleship. Starting with the end in mind and intentionally building toward it. It is not about ra perfect kids. It's not about seeing our kids as products to manufacture. It's about creating homes where our faith is authentically lived, where it is naturally discussed, where it is practice every day with grace and consistency and purpose. And today we're talking about how parents can become the primary disciple makers that God designed them to be and how you can encourage the parents you know around you. And that may be one of the greatest gifts that we can give the next generation.
Dr. Ron Hunter Jr. helps churches and families rethink discipleship
Our guest today is Dr. Ron Hunter Jr. He is CEO of D6 Family Ministry and Publishing. He's a professor of discipleship and leadership at Dallas Baptist University. And he is author of the book Backward Discipleship. That's what we're talking about today. And his passion is helping churches and families rethink discipleship so children develop a resilient faith that lasts into adulthood. That is exactly what we want. Ron, welcome to the show. So glad to have you here. Thank you for spending time with us today.
D6 Family Ministry focuses on helping parents disciple their kids
Speaker C Jessica, you set this up so well. I feel like I need to say very little. You hit the key question. We've got to think about that 30 year old child whether they're 5 or 10 or 15. And when we do that, it changes everything.
Dr. Jessica Peck It change, it does change everything. And you're right about. I agree with you. We are so light hearted in helping families and looking at that 30 year old child. Let's go back 30 years for you. Or so I won't ask exactly how many years. Tell us, tell us a little bit about your faith story. How did you come to know the Lord and how did he give you a platform for this kind of ministry to equip families to disciple their kids?
Speaker C Oh, wow. I rarely get asked this question. Thank you for that. First of all, I grew up in a Christian home and I felt the call that God was going to use me in some full time Christian ministry early in my, childhood around age 12. But then I questioned it in my teenage years because I heard my pastor speaking. He was talking about all the things God had saved him from, you know, the, the bad. And I'm like, I don't really have that story. I kind of grew up in a good home. But then When I was 15, my parents divorced and it was a quiet divorce. I didn't see it coming. And I think that laid a foundation by which today, when we think about home and family ministry and relationships, I think that's what drives me on that part. when I went away to college, I also joined the military. And there was a period of time where I thought God was calling me to be a chaplain. And, so I got a chance to go do some really cool things just being a normal enlisted person. I went to jump school, Nuclear biological chemical warfare school. I then got my commission after finishing at Vanderbilt's rotc. And I thought, this is laying a great groundwork for being this chaplain. But then God closed the door. I tried to open it, and God shut it. And you know how it is. We sometimes argue with God, but here's the bottom line. What I thought was my destination, God was using his preparation. And so God has woven together this ministry preparation, the military, and the various experiences. And your listeners know this. Your story sounds similar. Just fill in different labels. And God weaves all of that together to help you be a better parent, a better grandparent, a better mentor. And that's the story. And so God allowed me to pastor for 11 years before coming to D6 Family Ministry, which is, short for Deuteronomy 6, that passage where we as parents have some significant influence on our kids and our kids friends, and we're to really be intentional with that throughout the week. That's what D6 is short for.
Dr. Jessica Peck Ron, thank you so much for sharing your faith story. I love hearing that. I actually didn't know your story before. You just, shared it. And it is not lost on me that so often, so much of our passion for ministry comes from the broken places in our own life and the struggles that we have. And I think it's important for people to know because they hear your credentials and your accomplishments and they're like, oh, this guy's got it all together. He's had a perfect life. And. And really it's from those broken places that God. God loves to make beauty from ashes. So I'm so appreciative of sharing that. And I know there's some people out there saying, oh, jump school, that or. And whatever else you said about bio, whatever, nuclear something, your. Your cool factor, I think, just went way up, Ron, which I love. But, you know, one of the. The things that you said in. In your book that I've heard you say that I agree with so much you said this. If youth are not being discipled intentionally, they're Being discipled accidentally by culture. This is like the sounding that I have been saying, like we have got to wake up, we have got to be more intentional because culture all around us is being so intentional. What are you seeing happen? You, you're in the midst of ministry leaders who are boots on the ground. You're like a commander in the military. What are you seeing in this fight?
Speaker C Yeah, I wish I could tell you. We were, we were seeing the needle move in the direction that it should move. But unfortunately in church it seems like we keep doing what we've always seen done and you know the definition of insanity, expecting different healthy results. And that's the way we, we kind of grow up in church. How we saw people teach is how we teach, you know, and we've compartmentalized the development biblical worldview, our learning as disciples to only what happens at church. And we know every study, secular and Christian, shows the power and influence of what happens in the home, good or bad. As you know, Jessica, I mean, we have trauma in the home, but we also have, we fall in love with sports teams in the home. We fall in love with hobbies or foods or ways of doing things. And that shapes our developmental years. And the question becomes instead of, and there's not a parent out there that doesn't want the very best for their kids. So I want to really hasten to say this is not intended to heap shame or guilt. I detest that motivation factor. I am so far from being the perfect parent. There's so many things I wished I could go back and redo having learned so many lessons along the way. But here's what I want to challenge the parents with. Instead of trying to hire or delegate out the very best experiences, step into that role and do it to the best of your ability. You know, I, I don't know algebra, but I want to step in and help my kids learn it to the best of my ability. So I can't help them with it, but I can sit next to them and watch a YouTube video or, or you know, look at the online helps that are in there. And we've got to do the same thing with the pain points of life as we kind of reflect what we're reading in scripture as a way to go. Let me encourage you based on how God's encouraging me. And it, cascades or overflows from our lives into our kids lives, our kids friends, our mentors, our co workers, you name it.
Dr. Jessica Peck It's so true. And a lot of parents just feel overwhelmed at where to start. And I think another cultural force that's working against us, Ron. And I'm saying us because I'm a parent and I am certainly not perfect either. My kids would probably love to line up at the mic and tell you, oh, yeah, I've got some stories.
Speaker C That's right.
Dr. Jessica Peck But you know, we don't find. It's not that we're sharing because, oh, we found the perfect way. We found the courage to say, no, it's not perfect, but here's hope and healing that we found.
Backward discipleship is not immediate gratification for parents, Ron says
And one of the biggest challenges, I think, Ron, for parents is that we want immediate gratification. We want to see that kind of immediate feedback. We want to just input a little effort. We want to be like the little auto assistant on the bottom of the webpage that says, how can I help you? Let me solve your problem in five minutes and then take a survey. That's how we treat our kids when they come to us. Like, we just, we want that behavioral input right away so that we can have some reassurance of our own anxieties, thinking, okay, I must be doing okay as a parent. And you're presenting a pretty radical change from that. You're calling this backward discipleship, which is not immediate gratification. You started off talking about that 30 year old. How can reframing our perspective to look at discipleship in a backwards way bring hope for today?
Dr. Jessica Peck Yeah.
Speaker C So let me kind of back up for just a moment and kind of answer part of what I didn't answer in your first question there. I'm also seeing out there 2/3. That's what the research is showing. 64% of the young people growing up in church, they're walking away from their faith. That's a Barna study. Lifeway has a similar study, Pew Research. Again, I begin in the book and I say, hey, I'm gonna put on my, my light nerd hat and I'm going to just summarize these studies. I'm not going to get into nerd speak. I'm. But I'm going to show you the credibility of what's happening around us. That's the people who are in our churches, not the ones outside. That means we're producing twice as many prodigals as we are disciples. And we don't seem to be changing it. So the question to me is not talking about the 2/3 who are walking away. It's about the 1/3 who stay. And we ask the question, what were the influences in their life that caused them to stay? That becomes the backward planning or the title of the book Backward Discipleship. If we know what caused the 1/3 to stay and we started becoming more intentional when they're in their childhood, their middle school, their teenage years, we should be able to move the needle and change that 2/3, 1/3 station. And so backward discipleship is looking at the end in mind and asking what goes into the stickability of our kids sustaining their faith into adulthood to where it's not borrowed from mom and dad, it's not forced to be obedient because I'm in their home. It's I want to love Jesus Christ, I want to make the right decisions. I have a built in ethical meter that comes comes from scriptural values. And I know why I believe it. I don't just know what I believe. But we've got to be intentional. We can't be the two hour parent, as you said. We can't just. That would be a great book title. It wouldn't contain any content. But you know, I, I, we don't get to turn off the parent title once we become a parent. I mean we get a brief weekend when they go to grandma's house, you know, in that. But the truth is we're always a parent and it never goes away. So we've just got to lean into it and love it.
Dr. Jessica Peck I love the what you're saying and the concept of being intentional. We've just got to be intentional. I think so often, Ron, we're just apathetic and we just kind of, we don't understand, we're overwhelmed. So we just kind of hope that everything's going to go okay. We're already at our first break, but the encouraging news for you who are listening is that this is not what Ron and I are talking about is not adding more activities to an already busy family schedule. It is about a perspective shift and when you know where you're headed spiritually, it's going to impact the way that you make your decisions and your accountability. Partners in that are going to be your credit card and your calendar. Where are you spending your time and your money and your effort and your intentions? After the break, we'll talk about some things that build resilient faith and why some long held assumptions about spiritual growth might need to change.
Ron Hunter Jr. celebrates America's 250th birthday with some patriotic apparel
I'll be right back with Ron Hunter Jr.
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Dr. Jessica Peck Uh-huh. Just to find out your ways better. Oh, You're ways better. Oh, Lord, you're ways better. Jesus.
Dr. Jessica Peck Welcome back, friends. That is your ways Better by Forrest Frank. And I hope that gave you a little bounce in your step wherever you are. Maybe some of you or doing the motions to that. That would not be me. I'm not good at that sort of thing. But hey, if you're doing a praise dance, you go on. I applaud it all the way.
Backward Discipleship can help children develop lifelong faith
And today I am really grateful for my guest who's joining us, Ron Hunter Jr. He's the CEO of D6 Family Ministry, author of many books. But the one we're talking about today is called Backward Discipleship. If you look on the COVID here, the B is backward there. I think that was intentional. And we're talking about how many famil families are outsourcing, unintentionally outsourcing their primary role as disciplers. And there are families who equate spiritual maturity with how much you're going to church or how many Bible camps your kids are going to or youth group participation. These things are wonderful gifts, but they are not the ultimate predictors of lifelong faith. Ron was just talking about the research that we know pretty well, the state of affairs that's going on. And so we're talking about what can actually help children develop a faith that survives college, that survives culture, and that thrives into adulthood. And, Ron, one of the things that you said is the starting point is the end. How can parents understand that backwards kind of thinking?
Speaker C Yeah, I think it's more intuitive than we realize. I. I mentioned earlier that I learned this in the military is backward planning is what the military calls it. You start with a mission, work backwards to where you are today, from supplies, rehearsal, weapons, draw, you name it, everything. But we understand it too, because when I was looking at my calendar, I always look at my calendar the night before I go to bed, and I think through, what am I going to wear? And actually hang it on a certain place in our closet. And I think through and get my mindset ready for the next day based on the flow and the activities of the day. even my granddaughter, who was 4 when I was writing the book about 18 months ago, I was staying with, her, her while my daughter and son in law went on a date. And my daughter said, hey, Kinsley understands your bedtime. But she told me what it was. She said, but ask her, she should have it. And so when we got done eating, we had played, we had read, we'd had some fun times. I said, okay, it's bedtime. And I took her by the hand. We're walking upstairs. And I said, kinsley, I said, what do you do before you sleep? And verbatim she said this. She rattled it off like a pro at 4 years old. She said, granddaddy, I do bath time, then pajamas, brush my hair, read my Bible story, pray, turn off my light, then I sleep.
Dr. Jessica Peck Oh, that's precious.
Speaker C Good. the order to that. She didn't say, oh, and some random. She knew the sequence. And we do too. If we showed up for a vacation and we didn't make reservations, we showed up and said, hey, I want a seat on that flight. Oh, sorry, we're booked. I mean, we do advance planning, we reserve seats. We pack certain things into the suitcase based on whether or not we're going to the beach or to the mountains or on an Alaskan cruise. That suitcase gets different items packed in based on what we think will happen at the end when we get there.
Jessica: What do we need to pack into our kids proverbial suitcase
Now here's my challenge to the parents and grandparents and the mentors listening. What do we need to pack into our kids proverbial suitcase when they're 4, when they're 14, when they're 24, when we're in a different season? And there are five things that rise to the top. I mentioned. We studied the research, and there are 43 studies that I summarized with a one paragraph summary. There were 17 themes that rose to the top from those 43 studies. And when we asked that question, what caused the one third to stay and the end? There were five characteristics commonly discussed among those new young adults who stuck with and were resilient with their faith. You want to jump into them?
Dr. Jessica Peck Yes, I do. I'm. I don't. Leave me on a cliffhanger.
Dr. Jessica Peck What are they?
Speaker C Okay, let me, let me rattle off all five and then we can camp out where you'd like to camp.
Dr. Jessica Peck That's great.
Speaker C Bible engagement. Okay. Which is consistency in scripture. It anchors our beliefs. Number two, we need conversation or faith at home. Okay. Parents are the number one influencers. We cannot ignore that. Number three, mentors who matter. Not every child has a parent who's a Christian or a believer. And the ones who do, they don't all step into those conversations. So we've got to have mentors. Number four, we need to teach our kids how to share their faith. Share Christ with their friends, co workers and whomever. And number five, teach them to volunteer at church. Regardless of age, there's always something we can do. So why don't we jump into the first one? Or does another one resonate with you, Jessica?
Dr. Jessica Peck Actually, yes. I feel like you've just given me like five little gifts that I can open and I'm gonna choose Ron. What's in box number four? Actually, that's where I wanna go. Since you gave me the opportunity, I'll take it.
How to share their faith. What do you see as the biggest barriers to kids sharing their faith
How to share their faith. This is one of the most common things that I hear from kids and from parents that's really hard to do. And the main barrier that I see, Ron, is a lot of fear because of cancel culture, because of hostility towards traditional Christian values. There are kids who want to share their faith, who maybe I'm not even talking about evangelism yet. I'm just talking about just living out their faith in a loud way. Like, like, you know, living by their values and, and articulating that. It's so hard to do that. What do you see as the, the biggest barriers to kids sharing their faith? And how can we as parents, as grandparents, as mentors, help them overcome that? To live loud in their faith and share it with others?
Speaker C The biggest barrier is the lack of Jesus Christ being real in our kids lives. And if it's not real in their lives, it's typically because Jesus isn't real in our lives. We attend church, we don't belong to church. Our Christianity isn't authentic. It's a community club aspect to what we do. When we are a fan of the University of Blank football, whatever that you fill in the blank, we talk about it, we wear the apparel it oozes out of us. When we have a hobby we love, and we love going and playing or doing. We talk about it, we make time for it. Question is, does our kids, according to Deuteronomy, According to Ephesians 6, according to Psalm 78, do they see Christ being important in the decision making of our lives? Do they see scripture just sprinkled throughout conversation? So here's what I would advise. When we think about sharing our faith, it doesn't mean grabbing a megaphone and being an obnoxious person. Sharing our faith. When we share our faith and we let people know, hey, church is important to me. Jesus Christ is important to me. Now we're on record. And it changes how we should act in front of our friends. So we don't laugh at the same jokes. We don't pick on the weak child in the classroom or, you know, we don't look like the person who's a non believer. And so when people notice that we're a little bit different and hopefully we're doing things with excellence, they go, you're different. Why? And we can just step into that and say, hey, I just think that we need to make good decisions that are unselfish. unselfish. Why? And you just get to keep answering questions. Now here's the thing that's important. When you're a young child, I don't care what grade you're in, fifth, ninth, you're going to get questions from m your friends you cannot answer. And as moms and dads, we need to tell our kids, hey, don't make up an answer. You're going to ask me questions and I'm not going to make it up if I don't know the answer. Just say, hey, I don't know that, but I'm going to find out and get back to you. And then you come home and you ask mom and dad, and what's it going to do? It's going to take us back up to the number one item, Bible engagement. Because we're going to go look for answers in Bible engagement. I mean, here's a common question that has popped up with this one. How can a loving God allow two nations to be at war and innocent women and children are bombed and they die? How can a loving God allow x man? What? Fifth graders gonna have an answer for that one. They're gonna come ask their youth pastor, their parent, and it's gonna allow that cyclical, hey, let me go back to the Bible. Let me have a conversation. Faith at home. And the other ones are going to re be reinforced that we've already articulated. And then they're gonna be able to go back and go, hey, here's what I'm finding out. And what are we going to do when a child asks the question of mom and dad or youth pastor, we're reinforcing their apologetic understanding of scripture, how to defend their faith. This builds resiliency so much. So here's the thing. You model it and wait for a question to come along. You don't have to grab the megaphone and just shove it down somebody's throat. That's not what we're discussing here. It's modeling Jesus Christ to where people go why do you do that? And then we step into the answer.
Dr. Jessica Peck You know, I was talking to a guest earlier in the week, Ana Avila, who was talking about living a life in devotion and she was talking about how we have Bibles everywhere. We have so many, so much access to Bibles. And this goes back to box number one, which you proposed first. They tie together so beautifully. Ron. I do think that we have more access to the Bible than ever, but less engagement with the Bible than ever. We have such temptations to go scripture light. Like the scripture that we read may be the COVID of an Instagram story or, you know, the top of a devotional that maybe you look at really quickly, but it does all go back to the word of God. Ron. God has given us everything that we need. I see so many parents who are so overwhelmed in this culture and think, yeah, the Bible seems so ancient and out of touch, but when you look at the prayer principles that are there, God has given us everything we need. And one of those simple things that we can do is go back to the word of God. The word of God is living and active and it will live in our kids lives. It will speak to them. The Holy Spirit will bring to mind God's word. It will give them more encouragement than I ever could. One of the most common examples I give is, you know, as a mom, as a nurse, when my kids are afraid, I say, don't be afraid. I'm here. I'm not going to leave you. That's okay. I mean, that's a good thing. A good mom should say that. But if I also say God has not given you a spirit of fear, but a power and love and a sound mind, that is way more powerful than any feeble reassurance I can give. So let's go back to box number one, Ron.
Jessica Bennett: Talk about Bible engagement and resilience
And then I want to talk a little bit more about that resilience. But talk about Bible engagement. It seems so simple. People want the life hack. This is it. This is the ultimate life hack.
Speaker C It truly is. And here's the thing, I'm not a fan of. Hey, you. Just checking the boxes that you've done it. You know, I, I do think everybody should read the Bible through, but I don't care how long it takes you to do it. and I also recommend, if you're listening and you may say, hey, I've never done that before, do not read it through Genesis to Revelation. Read it chronologically and you say, how does that. Just Google chronological Bible reading plan. They're free. You download them and just read it. And the story makes more sense than the categories that the books are put together. And we won't chase that rabbit. But here's what I found interesting, Jessica. In the research, what caused the resiliency with Bible engagement is how many times made a difference in the person's life each week. You know what the number was? It was surprising to me.
Dr. Jessica Peck Four?
Speaker C Was it seven? Was it six? And the ones who did it five, six or seven times, it was marginally different. It did not have any more effect than a person who read it four times a week. So I don't need you to have guilt or shame because you're like, man, I missed a day. Who cares? I just want this to be a pattern. Maybe your Bible sits beside your bed when you wake up, you pick it up. Maybe you pick it up before you go to sleep. I'm a late night Bible reader. I'm not an early morning person on that. Okay, but find a place that you can engage scripture. And in chapter nine of Backward Discipleship, we talked about how to help kids share their faith. And we want to build a biblical worldview. I listed about 50 passages of scripture that you really need to have conversations with your kids. Or they might be scripture verses they need to memorize. And so just work through those. And if I were a parent, I'd make sure I'm reading one of those once a week and somehow praying, saying, God, let me work this into a conversation. Because Deuteronomy 6 is about, hey, when we get up in the morning, when we go, by the way, and when we think about in our daily lives, that means, hey, when we send them out the door, if we're sending them to a school bus or carpool ride, pause and go, hey, how can I pray with you today? And they'll tell you, hey, I've got the test or I'm trying out for this. And what it's going to do is it's going to build a bridge to their heart that you, you care. And it's going to open up an opportunity that evening to go, hey, how did so and so go? Hey, mom remembered, dad remembered. They actually care. And so then we get a chance to coach when things don't go the right way. And when we're reading that passage of scripture, God and the Holy Spirit is just going to bring that back around and go, hey, here's something I read. Let's. Will you turn, open up your phone and click open the scripture and let's read this together. And you'll already have it fresh on your brain, and you're instantly being able to connect. Now we're having faith conversation, Bible engagement. We're sharing our faith and we're mentoring, even though we're a parent in that moment.
We need to create kids who are resilient disciples, Ron Hunter says
Dr. Jessica Peck Well, you've mentioned this word a couple of times now, Ron. Resilient. These, these practices make resilient disciples. And we've had a lot of conversation about resilience in, a, in a child psychology sense. And as I'll quote you, I won't taste that rabbit too much. But the bottom line is we need to create kids who are resilient disciples. They live in cancel culture, Ron. They think they make a mistake and their life is over. They think that they mess up on their spiritual disciplines and they stop reading their Bible. They stop going to church. They make a, poor choice. And then all of a sudden, like, that's it. They're rejected. That just, that's it. But we do need to normalize the concept of we are sinners. I all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. I think give kids a path back to grace. we're coming up on our, on our next break, but give us just a minute or so. Introduction to what you view as a resilient disciple.
Speaker C I, I here's how I would say this. I always told our kids, my goal for you is to help you make wise spiritual decisions. That means you're going to make decisions that blow it. You're going to make the wrong ones. But we're going to talk about it. We're going to coach it up. And there are four Cs that I think parents need to recognize. They're the, the four seasons of the child development. And we've got to treat each one differently. Maybe we can talk about those on the other side.
Dr. Jessica Peck I would love that. Because what I see, Ron, is it's really important for parents to know that faith is not formed through those occasional inspiration or through those big life moments, you know, those big movie moments. It really grows, goes through rhythms that are repeated and consistent. These ordinary moments that are around dinner tables and car rides and all of these, you know, just things, sports practices where honest questions take place, just like you described. So when we come back, we'll talk about those four Cs, the four seasons. And we'll talk about parents who may just feel overwhelmed or maybe inadequate and discover why they are far more influential than they realize. We have some real hope and help coming to you. The book is Backward Discipleship by Ron Hunter. Junior, you need it. And you need to come back after this break. We'll see you in just a minute.
Dr. Jessica Peck I've been built up my own day but the walls couldn't stand I trusted my own strength but it was seeking sa so I put my r into your head and watch you restore them like only you can Cause if the Lord fills the house nobody can tear it down if the Lord builds the house nobody can tear it down when it builds on his name There is nothing gonna shake this crown if the Lord builds the house nobody can tear it
Dr. Jessica Peck welcome back, friends. That is if the Lord builds this house by hope Darst. And that's exactly what we're talking about today. And it's such a great hope for us. There is not pressure for us to build our own house. In this world of image crafting where kids are told to make something of themselves and to their pressure to come up with this image for the world that's going to be marketable or celebratable. That's not even a word. I just made it up. But that is the pressure that we feel. It is all, ah, the Lord.
Ron Hunter Jr. says God is calling parents to be intentional as parents
And joining me today for such a great conversation is Ron Hunter Jr. Author of Many books. This latest one we're talking about is backward discipleship. So many convicting troops truths in this. And I've been talking for a long time now, almost a year, about calling parents to be intentional, to wake up, to disciple their kids, to not outsource it, to not let apathy rule the day. We've got to wake up and we've got to invest. And rise has given us so much encouragement in that. And Ron, before the break and during the break, you were. I, you, and I were talking about the four Cs that match the four seasons of parenting. This is some good stuff. So, lay it down for us.
Speaker C Absolutely. You know, you mentioned intentional. God is calling us to be intentional as parents, not perfect. So please, parents, don't let Satan not let you lean into a moment just because you're worried you're not going to get it right. If you have teenage kids, they're going to roll their eyes but lean in anyway. Okay, whatever that is. So the four Cs, real simple. There are four seasons that our kids go through, and our parenting style needs to change with each season. From birth to age 2, we are in the caregiver role. Our kids cannot walk, they cannot eat for themselves, they cannot change themselves. We do everything for them and we lean in. But one thing they're getting from Us is that nurturing, that love, that touch, that acceptance. And that's an incredibly developmental time in there. But if we stuck with that time and we tried to continue to do everything for them while they're five, six, or seven, society as a whole would look at us through a really unique lens. So thank goodness we transition at age 2. Until about age 12, we move from caregiver to cop. And what we're doing is we're reminding our kids that they live in community, and there are expectations and boundaries and, for lack of a better word, rules and consequences when we violate those boundaries. So we're teaching them right and wrong. We're teaching them to play well with others. Remember that phrase on the report card we got from our teacher? Plays well with others. And we learn to use inside voices and outside voices. This is that formidable area, where we are playing cop. And there will be consequences. It might be a stern look. It might be, hey, we've got to go to timeout. Whatever your parenting style for the consequences, I would implore you to remind yourself that the word discipline, at its root word is disciple. It's not intended to be punitive. It's intended to be corrective. So while there's a punitive element, the goal is not to hurt. The goal is to correct, redeem, which is what Jesus models for us. So at age 12, until age 18, we transition from. Let's go back caregiver, cop, and now into coach. Here's the deal I mentioned earlier in the. In the broadcast. Our goal is to help our kids become wise, spiritual decision makers. If you, as a parent, continue to make all the decisions for your child, when are they going to learn to make them for themselves? You've got to start to give them choices along the way. And the further up these seasons they go, the more we should be giving to them so that when they make the wrong choice, they make it under our roof, in our presence in a way that we can help correct and fix. So when our kids were in that cop mode, when we would go on vacation, we would give them souvenir money. And I realized we're in, a less cash world. But the goal was we gave them money they could spend, and they didn't have to ask. They're like, hey, I want this. And we wouldn't say no, because if they had it, they could spend it. Our daughter, after the first gas break, half of her money would be gone. Buying the trinkets in that, you know, the store, Store.
Dr. Jessica Peck There's always one.
Speaker C There is One. And then we get to our destination, and we're at the museum or the zoo or whatever, and our son goes, oh, I want the giraffe T shirt. And my daughter goes, I don't have enough money, dad. And the tears start flowing. And I look at her and say, I'm sorry. She has to learn that I can't come in and rescue her. Bad decision making. What's beautiful about that, Jessica, is our kids are. Are over 30. They've never once asked for money. They manage money better than my wife and I did at their age because we decided to lean in and do what our parents didn't do, and we helped them with that. And so when they get to that coach stage, now we've got to realize that they are some distance away. They're spending more time at school, after school, extracurricular activities, church outings, and they're not directly under our supervision. Think about it this way. A coach in any sport, during rehearsal, can be on the field showing that athlete how to pass whatever the sport is, how to make the play, and be right there, shoulder to shoulder with the modeling showing. But when game day comes, that coach has a box, has a line, and they can only observe from a distance. That's how parents feel with teenagers. We prepped, we've done it up close, but then they leave and go out and do something for the day or the evening or a long weekend, and we can only watch from a distance. They're going to get many things right, but they're also going to blow it. Don't bench them. Coach them, put them back in the game. That's really important. I always ask the question when I'm speaking to groups, why is it that we parent our kids more harshly than our heavenly father parents?
Dr. Jessica Peck Us.
Speaker C he unconditionally loves us and wants to see us be corrected, but in a way that lifts us back up and gives us another chance. And we can't keep reminding our kids what they did wrong. We got to give them the aspiration for what they can do very well. And then when they cross age 18, like it or not, we no longer have any authority over them. But hopefully we still have some influence over them. If we have connected with their heart during those rhythms and routines that we talked about earlier. The car rides, the dinner table conversations, when we've leaned in on those moments, we typically have earned the right that when they call us and they go, dad, Mom, I don't know how to buy insurance. Can you help me with this? Hey, dad, mom, we're bumping into a problem. And here's where we need your counsel on. I'd rather them come back to us than just going to AI or Google solely and letting the culture. And if you've built that relationship, they will.
As parents, sometimes we can be more invested in their athletics than coaching them
So let me hit one barrier that I think a lot of parents are probably going, man, I'd love to have a conversation with my kids, but every time they get in the car, they got their earbuds in, or they're on their mobile devices or whatever. Here's a game that we taught our kids and I, talk about this in the book, teach your kids to play the tennis ball game. The tennis ball game is a metaphor for toss them a question, let them answer, and you teach them to toss you back a question. Most kids have never been taught to be good conversationalists. And so it can start with, you know, high, low. What was high part of your day? What was the low part of your day? I actually prefer the one that deals with emotions. Mad, glad, sad. What made you mad today? What made you glad today? What made you sad? Typically, the emotions are the buttons that are pushed that causes our kids to respond a certain way. And if we can hear those moments and help them, process them and talk about, okay, if this were to happen again next week, how should we respond? And they can talk about events that happen to other friends of theirs in school the same way. But here's what we're doing. We're going back to those faith forging five that we talked about earlier. We get a chance to lean in and sprinkle in scripture. We get to have those faith at home mentoring moments. We get to share our faith and, we just step into that moment with them to help them understand and process to build a biblical worldview. I'll say this, and you take it from here. Kids are crying out for leadership, but it's called parenting.
Dr. Jessica Peck Oh, I agree with you so much. And that's such a great framework. Caregiver, cop, coach, consultant. And I want to go back to coach for a minute. You threw in a lot of sports analogies, which my husband thinks there's no like, life problem that can't be solved without a sports analogy. But, but let's talk about that coach. That coach. because you did use some analogies in there that were really great. And I want to wade into some territory that might step on some people's toes because I think that here in America, you look at the World cup, you know, furor that's going on, just the frenzy Right. We love sports. And there are parents. As parents, sometimes we can be more invested in their actual athletics and coaching them. And maybe that's sports, but maybe that's also other competitive things. Maybe it's competitive athletics or whatever it is. And of course, we see the sports landscape changing so significantly with the changes in the nil, the name images and licensing rules that have changed earning potential. Can you talk about a reframe of looking at coaching their discipleship journey and making sure we're prioritizing that over maybe making our kids that coaching them and skills that are going to make them marketable and profitable. And I know it's a. It's a tough, sensitive place to wade into, but we'll just. We'll just step there for just a minute.
Speaker C Yeah. I think first and foremost, and let me say quickly, we are a sports family. We did soccer. That was our thing. We tried baseball. Baseball early. We didn't care for it. Our kids didn't care for it, but we all fell in love with soccer. And from age 5 until 18, they played soccer, each season. And it was wonderful. So here's what we need to recognize is look for teachable moments with everything we do. And again, don't make it a sermon, don't make it a lecture. But we're teaching our kids how to win properly, how to lose, how to have teamwork, how to play well with others, how to work on areas of weakness. And so hopefully, every sport helps us develop in life. If you're doing sports because you have this ideal dream that your kids are going to go on to play professional, just remember the likelihood of that is very similar to a lottery ticket winning. Okay? So we do it for the right reasons, the balance that we have.
Ron Hunter's Backward Discipleship is a great resource for parents
But here's what I often see parents do they, send their kids off to college, or maybe their kids moved out and they're heading to trade school, or they moved into their own apartment and they're ready to tackle life. And walking into their empty bedroom the first time after they're gone, is really hard. If you've not been there, just wait. You'll look around the room and you'll be flooded with memories, and they will be good ones. And then there'll be memories that will go, man, I wish that had done that. Remember, you're not going to get it right every time. It's okay. But I remember going in and finding the cleats in the closet, and the cleats in the closet still smelled of sweat, still had some mud caked around the cleats on the bottom from the muddy soccer fields that we were on. I remembered all the time and the energy that we poured into it. We sat on the sidelines and we screened. I coached different seasons and there were medals on the shelf that they had won and trophies sitting there. And then I asked myself, we poured a lot of time and energy into what is represented in those cleats in the closet. Did we also pour time and energy into developing them, as disciples? I'm not saying you got to pick one or the other. I'm saying you've got to balance the discipline of sports with discipleship, with Jesus Christ. Think about those cleats in the closet. They'll sit there forever. But a well developed disciple who's falling in love with Jesus Christ with resilient faith through intentional moments is going to last them a lifetime.
Dr. Jessica Peck Oh, you're going to get me, Ron, because I've had three kids go off to school and, and launch so far and, and man, you're right. Buckle in. It is so, so, so tough. And another thing, and that was such a wise word of advice. And one other thing that we had talked about even during the break was staying too long in that cop stage. And what I had shared with you is that I see parents staying in the caregiver of the cop because you get that instant gratification, that instant feedback, like, caregiver, oh, you're the sun, moon and stars. And they, I love you, mommy. I love you, daddy. So amazing. And then all of a sudden, even in the cop, it's like, well, at least I have control. Like, they may be mad at me, but at least I can tell them what to do. Coach is where you step into trusting the sovereignty of God. And you know, this has been a really, tough lesson for me, Ron, because I think, okay, now I know all of these things. I've journeyed as a mom. I've learned a lot. I have these professional skills. I have this experience. It doesn't give my kids some sort of magical immunity that now they're sinless creatures. Like, that's not going to happen. We are not perfect parents. We will not have perfect children. And Ron, you have given us so much encouragement, but there is so much more encouragement in your book. If you're wanting to say, if that's you out there, who's saying, yeah, I want to be intentional about discipling my kids. This is a great resource to pick up. Backward Discipleship by Ron Hunter. Judy, I encourage you to do that. And remember we cannot control every influence that our children will encounter in this world. But we can control the atmosphere of our homes. We can model authentic faith. We can open God's Word together. We can ask good questions. We can admit our own failures. We can extend grace. And we can keep pointing our children back to Jesus. The question is, what kind of home is.
Dr. Jessica Peck Is.
Dr. Jessica Peck Are you going to have. You have a homework. You are intentionally discipling your kids. That's the invitation. And as you ponder it, I pray, as, I always do, the Lord will bless you and keep you and make his face shine upon you. I'll see you tomorrow.
The views and opinions expressed in this broadcast may not necessarily reflect those of the American Family association or American Family Radio.
Dr. Jessica Peck shares her thoughts on parenting on American Family Radio
Hello and welcome to the Dr. Nurse Mama show, prescribing Hope for Healthy Families here on American Family Radio. Here's your host, professor, pediatric nurse practitioner, and mom of four, Dr. Jessica Peck.
Dr. Jessica Peck Well, hey there, friends, and welcome to my favorite time of day, getting to spend time with you, prescribing Hope for Healthy Families. And we have got an encouraging program ahead of you today. Today we're going to dive into parenting, but this is really for anyone who is invest in children around you. And that should really be everyone, whether you're a grandparent, a teacher, a coach, an aunt, an uncle, just someone who is invested in kids in your community. All of us, we look at younger generations and we want children, and especially parents. We want our kids to grow into healthy, responsible, faithful adults who love God and serve others. That is the bottom line of what we want. Yet a lot of parents, and I'm right there with you, just feel defeated and discouraged and like we're losing ground. And we give this mess messaging to kids all the time that this is a terrible time to be alive. And culture is moving faster than we are. Culture is more intentional than we are. We talked about that in a lot of other contents, context. And we know that algorithms, especially in the last couple of years, are just learning in dog years. They are so fast. And they are discipling our children before we even take our breakfast, honestly, because they're in social media and it rewards feelings over truth. Entertainment is normalizing things that scripture calls harmful. And we're sitting here giving this countercultural messaging, and we wonder, can we do it? Is it effective? Because we see all of the competing influences, schools and peers and influencers online and AI. And meanwhile, there's many Christian parents who are faithfully driving to church every week. They're taking their kids to youth group volunteering, and secretly, we're kind of just hoping that's enough. But today's culture isn't merely influencing our children. It is actively discipling them. Technology is not neutral, especially when it comes to AI. AI is actively shaping our children's worldview. And the question isn't whether our. Our children are being discipled or not. It is who is doing the primary discipling. And research continues to show that many young adults walk away from church after graduation. They leave their faith. They deconst. This is a fear that we have in our hearts as parents. And we wonder, what happened? What did I do wrong? But perhaps we're asking the wrong questions. Maybe the questions we're asking is what we should be Asking, even right now, even before your children are born, what kind of 30 year old disciple do I hope my child becomes? What is the long game here? And that shift in perspective is exactly what today's guest calls backward discipleship. Starting with the end in mind and intentionally building toward it. It is not about ra perfect kids. It's not about seeing our kids as products to manufacture. It's about creating homes where our faith is authentically lived, where it is naturally discussed, where it is practice every day with grace and consistency and purpose. And today we're talking about how parents can become the primary disciple makers that God designed them to be and how you can encourage the parents you know around you. And that may be one of the greatest gifts that we can give the next generation.
Dr. Ron Hunter Jr. helps churches and families rethink discipleship
Our guest today is Dr. Ron Hunter Jr. He is CEO of D6 Family Ministry and Publishing. He's a professor of discipleship and leadership at Dallas Baptist University. And he is author of the book Backward Discipleship. That's what we're talking about today. And his passion is helping churches and families rethink discipleship so children develop a resilient faith that lasts into adulthood. That is exactly what we want. Ron, welcome to the show. So glad to have you here. Thank you for spending time with us today.
D6 Family Ministry focuses on helping parents disciple their kids
Speaker C Jessica, you set this up so well. I feel like I need to say very little. You hit the key question. We've got to think about that 30 year old child whether they're 5 or 10 or 15. And when we do that, it changes everything.
Dr. Jessica Peck It change, it does change everything. And you're right about. I agree with you. We are so light hearted in helping families and looking at that 30 year old child. Let's go back 30 years for you. Or so I won't ask exactly how many years. Tell us, tell us a little bit about your faith story. How did you come to know the Lord and how did he give you a platform for this kind of ministry to equip families to disciple their kids?
Speaker C Oh, wow. I rarely get asked this question. Thank you for that. First of all, I grew up in a Christian home and I felt the call that God was going to use me in some full time Christian ministry early in my, childhood around age 12. But then I questioned it in my teenage years because I heard my pastor speaking. He was talking about all the things God had saved him from, you know, the, the bad. And I'm like, I don't really have that story. I kind of grew up in a good home. But then When I was 15, my parents divorced and it was a quiet divorce. I didn't see it coming. And I think that laid a foundation by which today, when we think about home and family ministry and relationships, I think that's what drives me on that part. when I went away to college, I also joined the military. And there was a period of time where I thought God was calling me to be a chaplain. And, so I got a chance to go do some really cool things just being a normal enlisted person. I went to jump school, Nuclear biological chemical warfare school. I then got my commission after finishing at Vanderbilt's rotc. And I thought, this is laying a great groundwork for being this chaplain. But then God closed the door. I tried to open it, and God shut it. And you know how it is. We sometimes argue with God, but here's the bottom line. What I thought was my destination, God was using his preparation. And so God has woven together this ministry preparation, the military, and the various experiences. And your listeners know this. Your story sounds similar. Just fill in different labels. And God weaves all of that together to help you be a better parent, a better grandparent, a better mentor. And that's the story. And so God allowed me to pastor for 11 years before coming to D6 Family Ministry, which is, short for Deuteronomy 6, that passage where we as parents have some significant influence on our kids and our kids friends, and we're to really be intentional with that throughout the week. That's what D6 is short for.
Dr. Jessica Peck Ron, thank you so much for sharing your faith story. I love hearing that. I actually didn't know your story before. You just, shared it. And it is not lost on me that so often, so much of our passion for ministry comes from the broken places in our own life and the struggles that we have. And I think it's important for people to know because they hear your credentials and your accomplishments and they're like, oh, this guy's got it all together. He's had a perfect life. And. And really it's from those broken places that God. God loves to make beauty from ashes. So I'm so appreciative of sharing that. And I know there's some people out there saying, oh, jump school, that or. And whatever else you said about bio, whatever, nuclear something, your. Your cool factor, I think, just went way up, Ron, which I love. But, you know, one of the. The things that you said in. In your book that I've heard you say that I agree with so much you said this. If youth are not being discipled intentionally, they're Being discipled accidentally by culture. This is like the sounding that I have been saying, like we have got to wake up, we have got to be more intentional because culture all around us is being so intentional. What are you seeing happen? You, you're in the midst of ministry leaders who are boots on the ground. You're like a commander in the military. What are you seeing in this fight?
Speaker C Yeah, I wish I could tell you. We were, we were seeing the needle move in the direction that it should move. But unfortunately in church it seems like we keep doing what we've always seen done and you know the definition of insanity, expecting different healthy results. And that's the way we, we kind of grow up in church. How we saw people teach is how we teach, you know, and we've compartmentalized the development biblical worldview, our learning as disciples to only what happens at church. And we know every study, secular and Christian, shows the power and influence of what happens in the home, good or bad. As you know, Jessica, I mean, we have trauma in the home, but we also have, we fall in love with sports teams in the home. We fall in love with hobbies or foods or ways of doing things. And that shapes our developmental years. And the question becomes instead of, and there's not a parent out there that doesn't want the very best for their kids. So I want to really hasten to say this is not intended to heap shame or guilt. I detest that motivation factor. I am so far from being the perfect parent. There's so many things I wished I could go back and redo having learned so many lessons along the way. But here's what I want to challenge the parents with. Instead of trying to hire or delegate out the very best experiences, step into that role and do it to the best of your ability. You know, I, I don't know algebra, but I want to step in and help my kids learn it to the best of my ability. So I can't help them with it, but I can sit next to them and watch a YouTube video or, or you know, look at the online helps that are in there. And we've got to do the same thing with the pain points of life as we kind of reflect what we're reading in scripture as a way to go. Let me encourage you based on how God's encouraging me. And it, cascades or overflows from our lives into our kids lives, our kids friends, our mentors, our co workers, you name it.
Dr. Jessica Peck It's so true. And a lot of parents just feel overwhelmed at where to start. And I think another cultural force that's working against us, Ron. And I'm saying us because I'm a parent and I am certainly not perfect either. My kids would probably love to line up at the mic and tell you, oh, yeah, I've got some stories.
Speaker C That's right.
Dr. Jessica Peck But you know, we don't find. It's not that we're sharing because, oh, we found the perfect way. We found the courage to say, no, it's not perfect, but here's hope and healing that we found.
Backward discipleship is not immediate gratification for parents, Ron says
And one of the biggest challenges, I think, Ron, for parents is that we want immediate gratification. We want to see that kind of immediate feedback. We want to just input a little effort. We want to be like the little auto assistant on the bottom of the webpage that says, how can I help you? Let me solve your problem in five minutes and then take a survey. That's how we treat our kids when they come to us. Like, we just, we want that behavioral input right away so that we can have some reassurance of our own anxieties, thinking, okay, I must be doing okay as a parent. And you're presenting a pretty radical change from that. You're calling this backward discipleship, which is not immediate gratification. You started off talking about that 30 year old. How can reframing our perspective to look at discipleship in a backwards way bring hope for today?
Dr. Jessica Peck Yeah.
Speaker C So let me kind of back up for just a moment and kind of answer part of what I didn't answer in your first question there. I'm also seeing out there 2/3. That's what the research is showing. 64% of the young people growing up in church, they're walking away from their faith. That's a Barna study. Lifeway has a similar study, Pew Research. Again, I begin in the book and I say, hey, I'm gonna put on my, my light nerd hat and I'm going to just summarize these studies. I'm not going to get into nerd speak. I'm. But I'm going to show you the credibility of what's happening around us. That's the people who are in our churches, not the ones outside. That means we're producing twice as many prodigals as we are disciples. And we don't seem to be changing it. So the question to me is not talking about the 2/3 who are walking away. It's about the 1/3 who stay. And we ask the question, what were the influences in their life that caused them to stay? That becomes the backward planning or the title of the book Backward Discipleship. If we know what caused the 1/3 to stay and we started becoming more intentional when they're in their childhood, their middle school, their teenage years, we should be able to move the needle and change that 2/3, 1/3 station. And so backward discipleship is looking at the end in mind and asking what goes into the stickability of our kids sustaining their faith into adulthood to where it's not borrowed from mom and dad, it's not forced to be obedient because I'm in their home. It's I want to love Jesus Christ, I want to make the right decisions. I have a built in ethical meter that comes comes from scriptural values. And I know why I believe it. I don't just know what I believe. But we've got to be intentional. We can't be the two hour parent, as you said. We can't just. That would be a great book title. It wouldn't contain any content. But you know, I, I, we don't get to turn off the parent title once we become a parent. I mean we get a brief weekend when they go to grandma's house, you know, in that. But the truth is we're always a parent and it never goes away. So we've just got to lean into it and love it.
Dr. Jessica Peck I love the what you're saying and the concept of being intentional. We've just got to be intentional. I think so often, Ron, we're just apathetic and we just kind of, we don't understand, we're overwhelmed. So we just kind of hope that everything's going to go okay. We're already at our first break, but the encouraging news for you who are listening is that this is not what Ron and I are talking about is not adding more activities to an already busy family schedule. It is about a perspective shift and when you know where you're headed spiritually, it's going to impact the way that you make your decisions and your accountability. Partners in that are going to be your credit card and your calendar. Where are you spending your time and your money and your effort and your intentions? After the break, we'll talk about some things that build resilient faith and why some long held assumptions about spiritual growth might need to change.
Ron Hunter Jr. celebrates America's 250th birthday with some patriotic apparel
I'll be right back with Ron Hunter Jr.
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Dr. Jessica Peck Uh-huh. Just to find out your ways better. Oh, You're ways better. Oh, Lord, you're ways better. Jesus.
Dr. Jessica Peck Welcome back, friends. That is your ways Better by Forrest Frank. And I hope that gave you a little bounce in your step wherever you are. Maybe some of you or doing the motions to that. That would not be me. I'm not good at that sort of thing. But hey, if you're doing a praise dance, you go on. I applaud it all the way.
Backward Discipleship can help children develop lifelong faith
And today I am really grateful for my guest who's joining us, Ron Hunter Jr. He's the CEO of D6 Family Ministry, author of many books. But the one we're talking about today is called Backward Discipleship. If you look on the COVID here, the B is backward there. I think that was intentional. And we're talking about how many famil families are outsourcing, unintentionally outsourcing their primary role as disciplers. And there are families who equate spiritual maturity with how much you're going to church or how many Bible camps your kids are going to or youth group participation. These things are wonderful gifts, but they are not the ultimate predictors of lifelong faith. Ron was just talking about the research that we know pretty well, the state of affairs that's going on. And so we're talking about what can actually help children develop a faith that survives college, that survives culture, and that thrives into adulthood. And, Ron, one of the things that you said is the starting point is the end. How can parents understand that backwards kind of thinking?
Speaker C Yeah, I think it's more intuitive than we realize. I. I mentioned earlier that I learned this in the military is backward planning is what the military calls it. You start with a mission, work backwards to where you are today, from supplies, rehearsal, weapons, draw, you name it, everything. But we understand it too, because when I was looking at my calendar, I always look at my calendar the night before I go to bed, and I think through, what am I going to wear? And actually hang it on a certain place in our closet. And I think through and get my mindset ready for the next day based on the flow and the activities of the day. even my granddaughter, who was 4 when I was writing the book about 18 months ago, I was staying with, her, her while my daughter and son in law went on a date. And my daughter said, hey, Kinsley understands your bedtime. But she told me what it was. She said, but ask her, she should have it. And so when we got done eating, we had played, we had read, we'd had some fun times. I said, okay, it's bedtime. And I took her by the hand. We're walking upstairs. And I said, kinsley, I said, what do you do before you sleep? And verbatim she said this. She rattled it off like a pro at 4 years old. She said, granddaddy, I do bath time, then pajamas, brush my hair, read my Bible story, pray, turn off my light, then I sleep.
Dr. Jessica Peck Oh, that's precious.
Speaker C Good. the order to that. She didn't say, oh, and some random. She knew the sequence. And we do too. If we showed up for a vacation and we didn't make reservations, we showed up and said, hey, I want a seat on that flight. Oh, sorry, we're booked. I mean, we do advance planning, we reserve seats. We pack certain things into the suitcase based on whether or not we're going to the beach or to the mountains or on an Alaskan cruise. That suitcase gets different items packed in based on what we think will happen at the end when we get there.
Jessica: What do we need to pack into our kids proverbial suitcase
Now here's my challenge to the parents and grandparents and the mentors listening. What do we need to pack into our kids proverbial suitcase when they're 4, when they're 14, when they're 24, when we're in a different season? And there are five things that rise to the top. I mentioned. We studied the research, and there are 43 studies that I summarized with a one paragraph summary. There were 17 themes that rose to the top from those 43 studies. And when we asked that question, what caused the one third to stay and the end? There were five characteristics commonly discussed among those new young adults who stuck with and were resilient with their faith. You want to jump into them?
Dr. Jessica Peck Yes, I do. I'm. I don't. Leave me on a cliffhanger.
Dr. Jessica Peck What are they?
Speaker C Okay, let me, let me rattle off all five and then we can camp out where you'd like to camp.
Dr. Jessica Peck That's great.
Speaker C Bible engagement. Okay. Which is consistency in scripture. It anchors our beliefs. Number two, we need conversation or faith at home. Okay. Parents are the number one influencers. We cannot ignore that. Number three, mentors who matter. Not every child has a parent who's a Christian or a believer. And the ones who do, they don't all step into those conversations. So we've got to have mentors. Number four, we need to teach our kids how to share their faith. Share Christ with their friends, co workers and whomever. And number five, teach them to volunteer at church. Regardless of age, there's always something we can do. So why don't we jump into the first one? Or does another one resonate with you, Jessica?
Dr. Jessica Peck Actually, yes. I feel like you've just given me like five little gifts that I can open and I'm gonna choose Ron. What's in box number four? Actually, that's where I wanna go. Since you gave me the opportunity, I'll take it.
How to share their faith. What do you see as the biggest barriers to kids sharing their faith
How to share their faith. This is one of the most common things that I hear from kids and from parents that's really hard to do. And the main barrier that I see, Ron, is a lot of fear because of cancel culture, because of hostility towards traditional Christian values. There are kids who want to share their faith, who maybe I'm not even talking about evangelism yet. I'm just talking about just living out their faith in a loud way. Like, like, you know, living by their values and, and articulating that. It's so hard to do that. What do you see as the, the biggest barriers to kids sharing their faith? And how can we as parents, as grandparents, as mentors, help them overcome that? To live loud in their faith and share it with others?
Speaker C The biggest barrier is the lack of Jesus Christ being real in our kids lives. And if it's not real in their lives, it's typically because Jesus isn't real in our lives. We attend church, we don't belong to church. Our Christianity isn't authentic. It's a community club aspect to what we do. When we are a fan of the University of Blank football, whatever that you fill in the blank, we talk about it, we wear the apparel it oozes out of us. When we have a hobby we love, and we love going and playing or doing. We talk about it, we make time for it. Question is, does our kids, according to Deuteronomy, According to Ephesians 6, according to Psalm 78, do they see Christ being important in the decision making of our lives? Do they see scripture just sprinkled throughout conversation? So here's what I would advise. When we think about sharing our faith, it doesn't mean grabbing a megaphone and being an obnoxious person. Sharing our faith. When we share our faith and we let people know, hey, church is important to me. Jesus Christ is important to me. Now we're on record. And it changes how we should act in front of our friends. So we don't laugh at the same jokes. We don't pick on the weak child in the classroom or, you know, we don't look like the person who's a non believer. And so when people notice that we're a little bit different and hopefully we're doing things with excellence, they go, you're different. Why? And we can just step into that and say, hey, I just think that we need to make good decisions that are unselfish. unselfish. Why? And you just get to keep answering questions. Now here's the thing that's important. When you're a young child, I don't care what grade you're in, fifth, ninth, you're going to get questions from m your friends you cannot answer. And as moms and dads, we need to tell our kids, hey, don't make up an answer. You're going to ask me questions and I'm not going to make it up if I don't know the answer. Just say, hey, I don't know that, but I'm going to find out and get back to you. And then you come home and you ask mom and dad, and what's it going to do? It's going to take us back up to the number one item, Bible engagement. Because we're going to go look for answers in Bible engagement. I mean, here's a common question that has popped up with this one. How can a loving God allow two nations to be at war and innocent women and children are bombed and they die? How can a loving God allow x man? What? Fifth graders gonna have an answer for that one. They're gonna come ask their youth pastor, their parent, and it's gonna allow that cyclical, hey, let me go back to the Bible. Let me have a conversation. Faith at home. And the other ones are going to re be reinforced that we've already articulated. And then they're gonna be able to go back and go, hey, here's what I'm finding out. And what are we going to do when a child asks the question of mom and dad or youth pastor, we're reinforcing their apologetic understanding of scripture, how to defend their faith. This builds resiliency so much. So here's the thing. You model it and wait for a question to come along. You don't have to grab the megaphone and just shove it down somebody's throat. That's not what we're discussing here. It's modeling Jesus Christ to where people go why do you do that? And then we step into the answer.
Dr. Jessica Peck You know, I was talking to a guest earlier in the week, Ana Avila, who was talking about living a life in devotion and she was talking about how we have Bibles everywhere. We have so many, so much access to Bibles. And this goes back to box number one, which you proposed first. They tie together so beautifully. Ron. I do think that we have more access to the Bible than ever, but less engagement with the Bible than ever. We have such temptations to go scripture light. Like the scripture that we read may be the COVID of an Instagram story or, you know, the top of a devotional that maybe you look at really quickly, but it does all go back to the word of God. Ron. God has given us everything that we need. I see so many parents who are so overwhelmed in this culture and think, yeah, the Bible seems so ancient and out of touch, but when you look at the prayer principles that are there, God has given us everything we need. And one of those simple things that we can do is go back to the word of God. The word of God is living and active and it will live in our kids lives. It will speak to them. The Holy Spirit will bring to mind God's word. It will give them more encouragement than I ever could. One of the most common examples I give is, you know, as a mom, as a nurse, when my kids are afraid, I say, don't be afraid. I'm here. I'm not going to leave you. That's okay. I mean, that's a good thing. A good mom should say that. But if I also say God has not given you a spirit of fear, but a power and love and a sound mind, that is way more powerful than any feeble reassurance I can give. So let's go back to box number one, Ron.
Jessica Bennett: Talk about Bible engagement and resilience
And then I want to talk a little bit more about that resilience. But talk about Bible engagement. It seems so simple. People want the life hack. This is it. This is the ultimate life hack.
Speaker C It truly is. And here's the thing, I'm not a fan of. Hey, you. Just checking the boxes that you've done it. You know, I, I do think everybody should read the Bible through, but I don't care how long it takes you to do it. and I also recommend, if you're listening and you may say, hey, I've never done that before, do not read it through Genesis to Revelation. Read it chronologically and you say, how does that. Just Google chronological Bible reading plan. They're free. You download them and just read it. And the story makes more sense than the categories that the books are put together. And we won't chase that rabbit. But here's what I found interesting, Jessica. In the research, what caused the resiliency with Bible engagement is how many times made a difference in the person's life each week. You know what the number was? It was surprising to me.
Dr. Jessica Peck Four?
Speaker C Was it seven? Was it six? And the ones who did it five, six or seven times, it was marginally different. It did not have any more effect than a person who read it four times a week. So I don't need you to have guilt or shame because you're like, man, I missed a day. Who cares? I just want this to be a pattern. Maybe your Bible sits beside your bed when you wake up, you pick it up. Maybe you pick it up before you go to sleep. I'm a late night Bible reader. I'm not an early morning person on that. Okay, but find a place that you can engage scripture. And in chapter nine of Backward Discipleship, we talked about how to help kids share their faith. And we want to build a biblical worldview. I listed about 50 passages of scripture that you really need to have conversations with your kids. Or they might be scripture verses they need to memorize. And so just work through those. And if I were a parent, I'd make sure I'm reading one of those once a week and somehow praying, saying, God, let me work this into a conversation. Because Deuteronomy 6 is about, hey, when we get up in the morning, when we go, by the way, and when we think about in our daily lives, that means, hey, when we send them out the door, if we're sending them to a school bus or carpool ride, pause and go, hey, how can I pray with you today? And they'll tell you, hey, I've got the test or I'm trying out for this. And what it's going to do is it's going to build a bridge to their heart that you, you care. And it's going to open up an opportunity that evening to go, hey, how did so and so go? Hey, mom remembered, dad remembered. They actually care. And so then we get a chance to coach when things don't go the right way. And when we're reading that passage of scripture, God and the Holy Spirit is just going to bring that back around and go, hey, here's something I read. Let's. Will you turn, open up your phone and click open the scripture and let's read this together. And you'll already have it fresh on your brain, and you're instantly being able to connect. Now we're having faith conversation, Bible engagement. We're sharing our faith and we're mentoring, even though we're a parent in that moment.
We need to create kids who are resilient disciples, Ron Hunter says
Dr. Jessica Peck Well, you've mentioned this word a couple of times now, Ron. Resilient. These, these practices make resilient disciples. And we've had a lot of conversation about resilience in, a, in a child psychology sense. And as I'll quote you, I won't taste that rabbit too much. But the bottom line is we need to create kids who are resilient disciples. They live in cancel culture, Ron. They think they make a mistake and their life is over. They think that they mess up on their spiritual disciplines and they stop reading their Bible. They stop going to church. They make a, poor choice. And then all of a sudden, like, that's it. They're rejected. That just, that's it. But we do need to normalize the concept of we are sinners. I all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. I think give kids a path back to grace. we're coming up on our, on our next break, but give us just a minute or so. Introduction to what you view as a resilient disciple.
Speaker C I, I here's how I would say this. I always told our kids, my goal for you is to help you make wise spiritual decisions. That means you're going to make decisions that blow it. You're going to make the wrong ones. But we're going to talk about it. We're going to coach it up. And there are four Cs that I think parents need to recognize. They're the, the four seasons of the child development. And we've got to treat each one differently. Maybe we can talk about those on the other side.
Dr. Jessica Peck I would love that. Because what I see, Ron, is it's really important for parents to know that faith is not formed through those occasional inspiration or through those big life moments, you know, those big movie moments. It really grows, goes through rhythms that are repeated and consistent. These ordinary moments that are around dinner tables and car rides and all of these, you know, just things, sports practices where honest questions take place, just like you described. So when we come back, we'll talk about those four Cs, the four seasons. And we'll talk about parents who may just feel overwhelmed or maybe inadequate and discover why they are far more influential than they realize. We have some real hope and help coming to you. The book is Backward Discipleship by Ron Hunter. Junior, you need it. And you need to come back after this break. We'll see you in just a minute.
Dr. Jessica Peck I've been built up my own day but the walls couldn't stand I trusted my own strength but it was seeking sa so I put my r into your head and watch you restore them like only you can Cause if the Lord fills the house nobody can tear it down if the Lord builds the house nobody can tear it down when it builds on his name There is nothing gonna shake this crown if the Lord builds the house nobody can tear it
Dr. Jessica Peck welcome back, friends. That is if the Lord builds this house by hope Darst. And that's exactly what we're talking about today. And it's such a great hope for us. There is not pressure for us to build our own house. In this world of image crafting where kids are told to make something of themselves and to their pressure to come up with this image for the world that's going to be marketable or celebratable. That's not even a word. I just made it up. But that is the pressure that we feel. It is all, ah, the Lord.
Ron Hunter Jr. says God is calling parents to be intentional as parents
And joining me today for such a great conversation is Ron Hunter Jr. Author of Many books. This latest one we're talking about is backward discipleship. So many convicting troops truths in this. And I've been talking for a long time now, almost a year, about calling parents to be intentional, to wake up, to disciple their kids, to not outsource it, to not let apathy rule the day. We've got to wake up and we've got to invest. And rise has given us so much encouragement in that. And Ron, before the break and during the break, you were. I, you, and I were talking about the four Cs that match the four seasons of parenting. This is some good stuff. So, lay it down for us.
Speaker C Absolutely. You know, you mentioned intentional. God is calling us to be intentional as parents, not perfect. So please, parents, don't let Satan not let you lean into a moment just because you're worried you're not going to get it right. If you have teenage kids, they're going to roll their eyes but lean in anyway. Okay, whatever that is. So the four Cs, real simple. There are four seasons that our kids go through, and our parenting style needs to change with each season. From birth to age 2, we are in the caregiver role. Our kids cannot walk, they cannot eat for themselves, they cannot change themselves. We do everything for them and we lean in. But one thing they're getting from Us is that nurturing, that love, that touch, that acceptance. And that's an incredibly developmental time in there. But if we stuck with that time and we tried to continue to do everything for them while they're five, six, or seven, society as a whole would look at us through a really unique lens. So thank goodness we transition at age 2. Until about age 12, we move from caregiver to cop. And what we're doing is we're reminding our kids that they live in community, and there are expectations and boundaries and, for lack of a better word, rules and consequences when we violate those boundaries. So we're teaching them right and wrong. We're teaching them to play well with others. Remember that phrase on the report card we got from our teacher? Plays well with others. And we learn to use inside voices and outside voices. This is that formidable area, where we are playing cop. And there will be consequences. It might be a stern look. It might be, hey, we've got to go to timeout. Whatever your parenting style for the consequences, I would implore you to remind yourself that the word discipline, at its root word is disciple. It's not intended to be punitive. It's intended to be corrective. So while there's a punitive element, the goal is not to hurt. The goal is to correct, redeem, which is what Jesus models for us. So at age 12, until age 18, we transition from. Let's go back caregiver, cop, and now into coach. Here's the deal I mentioned earlier in the. In the broadcast. Our goal is to help our kids become wise, spiritual decision makers. If you, as a parent, continue to make all the decisions for your child, when are they going to learn to make them for themselves? You've got to start to give them choices along the way. And the further up these seasons they go, the more we should be giving to them so that when they make the wrong choice, they make it under our roof, in our presence in a way that we can help correct and fix. So when our kids were in that cop mode, when we would go on vacation, we would give them souvenir money. And I realized we're in, a less cash world. But the goal was we gave them money they could spend, and they didn't have to ask. They're like, hey, I want this. And we wouldn't say no, because if they had it, they could spend it. Our daughter, after the first gas break, half of her money would be gone. Buying the trinkets in that, you know, the store, Store.
Dr. Jessica Peck There's always one.
Speaker C There is One. And then we get to our destination, and we're at the museum or the zoo or whatever, and our son goes, oh, I want the giraffe T shirt. And my daughter goes, I don't have enough money, dad. And the tears start flowing. And I look at her and say, I'm sorry. She has to learn that I can't come in and rescue her. Bad decision making. What's beautiful about that, Jessica, is our kids are. Are over 30. They've never once asked for money. They manage money better than my wife and I did at their age because we decided to lean in and do what our parents didn't do, and we helped them with that. And so when they get to that coach stage, now we've got to realize that they are some distance away. They're spending more time at school, after school, extracurricular activities, church outings, and they're not directly under our supervision. Think about it this way. A coach in any sport, during rehearsal, can be on the field showing that athlete how to pass whatever the sport is, how to make the play, and be right there, shoulder to shoulder with the modeling showing. But when game day comes, that coach has a box, has a line, and they can only observe from a distance. That's how parents feel with teenagers. We prepped, we've done it up close, but then they leave and go out and do something for the day or the evening or a long weekend, and we can only watch from a distance. They're going to get many things right, but they're also going to blow it. Don't bench them. Coach them, put them back in the game. That's really important. I always ask the question when I'm speaking to groups, why is it that we parent our kids more harshly than our heavenly father parents?
Dr. Jessica Peck Us.
Speaker C he unconditionally loves us and wants to see us be corrected, but in a way that lifts us back up and gives us another chance. And we can't keep reminding our kids what they did wrong. We got to give them the aspiration for what they can do very well. And then when they cross age 18, like it or not, we no longer have any authority over them. But hopefully we still have some influence over them. If we have connected with their heart during those rhythms and routines that we talked about earlier. The car rides, the dinner table conversations, when we've leaned in on those moments, we typically have earned the right that when they call us and they go, dad, Mom, I don't know how to buy insurance. Can you help me with this? Hey, dad, mom, we're bumping into a problem. And here's where we need your counsel on. I'd rather them come back to us than just going to AI or Google solely and letting the culture. And if you've built that relationship, they will.
As parents, sometimes we can be more invested in their athletics than coaching them
So let me hit one barrier that I think a lot of parents are probably going, man, I'd love to have a conversation with my kids, but every time they get in the car, they got their earbuds in, or they're on their mobile devices or whatever. Here's a game that we taught our kids and I, talk about this in the book, teach your kids to play the tennis ball game. The tennis ball game is a metaphor for toss them a question, let them answer, and you teach them to toss you back a question. Most kids have never been taught to be good conversationalists. And so it can start with, you know, high, low. What was high part of your day? What was the low part of your day? I actually prefer the one that deals with emotions. Mad, glad, sad. What made you mad today? What made you glad today? What made you sad? Typically, the emotions are the buttons that are pushed that causes our kids to respond a certain way. And if we can hear those moments and help them, process them and talk about, okay, if this were to happen again next week, how should we respond? And they can talk about events that happen to other friends of theirs in school the same way. But here's what we're doing. We're going back to those faith forging five that we talked about earlier. We get a chance to lean in and sprinkle in scripture. We get to have those faith at home mentoring moments. We get to share our faith and, we just step into that moment with them to help them understand and process to build a biblical worldview. I'll say this, and you take it from here. Kids are crying out for leadership, but it's called parenting.
Dr. Jessica Peck Oh, I agree with you so much. And that's such a great framework. Caregiver, cop, coach, consultant. And I want to go back to coach for a minute. You threw in a lot of sports analogies, which my husband thinks there's no like, life problem that can't be solved without a sports analogy. But, but let's talk about that coach. That coach. because you did use some analogies in there that were really great. And I want to wade into some territory that might step on some people's toes because I think that here in America, you look at the World cup, you know, furor that's going on, just the frenzy Right. We love sports. And there are parents. As parents, sometimes we can be more invested in their actual athletics and coaching them. And maybe that's sports, but maybe that's also other competitive things. Maybe it's competitive athletics or whatever it is. And of course, we see the sports landscape changing so significantly with the changes in the nil, the name images and licensing rules that have changed earning potential. Can you talk about a reframe of looking at coaching their discipleship journey and making sure we're prioritizing that over maybe making our kids that coaching them and skills that are going to make them marketable and profitable. And I know it's a. It's a tough, sensitive place to wade into, but we'll just. We'll just step there for just a minute.
Speaker C Yeah. I think first and foremost, and let me say quickly, we are a sports family. We did soccer. That was our thing. We tried baseball. Baseball early. We didn't care for it. Our kids didn't care for it, but we all fell in love with soccer. And from age 5 until 18, they played soccer, each season. And it was wonderful. So here's what we need to recognize is look for teachable moments with everything we do. And again, don't make it a sermon, don't make it a lecture. But we're teaching our kids how to win properly, how to lose, how to have teamwork, how to play well with others, how to work on areas of weakness. And so hopefully, every sport helps us develop in life. If you're doing sports because you have this ideal dream that your kids are going to go on to play professional, just remember the likelihood of that is very similar to a lottery ticket winning. Okay? So we do it for the right reasons, the balance that we have.
Ron Hunter's Backward Discipleship is a great resource for parents
But here's what I often see parents do they, send their kids off to college, or maybe their kids moved out and they're heading to trade school, or they moved into their own apartment and they're ready to tackle life. And walking into their empty bedroom the first time after they're gone, is really hard. If you've not been there, just wait. You'll look around the room and you'll be flooded with memories, and they will be good ones. And then there'll be memories that will go, man, I wish that had done that. Remember, you're not going to get it right every time. It's okay. But I remember going in and finding the cleats in the closet, and the cleats in the closet still smelled of sweat, still had some mud caked around the cleats on the bottom from the muddy soccer fields that we were on. I remembered all the time and the energy that we poured into it. We sat on the sidelines and we screened. I coached different seasons and there were medals on the shelf that they had won and trophies sitting there. And then I asked myself, we poured a lot of time and energy into what is represented in those cleats in the closet. Did we also pour time and energy into developing them, as disciples? I'm not saying you got to pick one or the other. I'm saying you've got to balance the discipline of sports with discipleship, with Jesus Christ. Think about those cleats in the closet. They'll sit there forever. But a well developed disciple who's falling in love with Jesus Christ with resilient faith through intentional moments is going to last them a lifetime.
Dr. Jessica Peck Oh, you're going to get me, Ron, because I've had three kids go off to school and, and launch so far and, and man, you're right. Buckle in. It is so, so, so tough. And another thing, and that was such a wise word of advice. And one other thing that we had talked about even during the break was staying too long in that cop stage. And what I had shared with you is that I see parents staying in the caregiver of the cop because you get that instant gratification, that instant feedback, like, caregiver, oh, you're the sun, moon and stars. And they, I love you, mommy. I love you, daddy. So amazing. And then all of a sudden, even in the cop, it's like, well, at least I have control. Like, they may be mad at me, but at least I can tell them what to do. Coach is where you step into trusting the sovereignty of God. And you know, this has been a really, tough lesson for me, Ron, because I think, okay, now I know all of these things. I've journeyed as a mom. I've learned a lot. I have these professional skills. I have this experience. It doesn't give my kids some sort of magical immunity that now they're sinless creatures. Like, that's not going to happen. We are not perfect parents. We will not have perfect children. And Ron, you have given us so much encouragement, but there is so much more encouragement in your book. If you're wanting to say, if that's you out there, who's saying, yeah, I want to be intentional about discipling my kids. This is a great resource to pick up. Backward Discipleship by Ron Hunter. Judy, I encourage you to do that. And remember we cannot control every influence that our children will encounter in this world. But we can control the atmosphere of our homes. We can model authentic faith. We can open God's Word together. We can ask good questions. We can admit our own failures. We can extend grace. And we can keep pointing our children back to Jesus. The question is, what kind of home is.
Dr. Jessica Peck Is.
Dr. Jessica Peck Are you going to have. You have a homework. You are intentionally discipling your kids. That's the invitation. And as you ponder it, I pray, as, I always do, the Lord will bless you and keep you and make his face shine upon you. I'll see you tomorrow.
The views and opinions expressed in this broadcast may not necessarily reflect those of the American Family association or American Family Radio.
00:00 " Dr. Jessica Peck shares her thoughts on parenting on American Family Radio
03:35 " Dr. Ron Hunter Jr. helps churches and families rethink discipleship
04:09 " D6 Family Ministry focuses on helping parents disciple their kids
10:55 " Backward discipleship is not immediate gratification for parents, Ron says
14:52 " Ron Hunter Jr. celebrates America's 250th birthday with some patriotic apparel
16:17 " Backward Discipleship can help children develop lifelong faith
19:18 " Jessica: What do we need to pack into our kids proverbial suitcase
21:16 " How to share their faith. What do you see as the biggest barriers to kids sharing their faith
26:56 " Jessica Bennett: Talk about Bible engagement and resilience
30:03 " We need to create kids who are resilient disciples, Ron Hunter says
33:57 " Ron Hunter Jr. says God is calling parents to be intentional as parents
40:45 " As parents, sometimes we can be more invested in their athletics than coaching them
44:48 " Ron Hunter's Backward Discipleship is a great resource for parents
✍️ Episode References
Dr. Jessica Peck
https://www.afa.net/the-afa-stream
Dr. Oz Hunter Jr.
https://d6family.com
Backward Discipleship
https://www.amazon.com
Deuteronomy 6
https://www.biblegateway.com
Barna Group
https://www.barna.com
Pew Research
https://www.pewresearch.org
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