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 : and welcome to the Dr. Nursemama Hope for Healthy Families here on American Family Radio. Here's your host, professor, pediatric nurse practitioner and mom of four, Dr. Jessica Peck.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, hey there friends and welcome to my favorite time of day getting to spend time with you prescribing Hope for Healthy Families. And we are talking about some really important things. Yesterday we talked about where is God? How do you feel heard by God even when you are not healed? And today we're bringing you a special similar sort of hope. Where is God? In the middle of grief. We all know the world is broken and it is not as it should be. And so many of us see trials and tragedies and traumas happening all around us and maybe happening to someone you love. It may be happening to someone you just see on the news that breaks your heart. It may be happening in your own home and your own family. But we live in a culture and that really wants to avoid any sort of pain. We would love for everything to be comfortable, everything to be perfect for nobody to ever be sad. The good news is a world like that does exist, but it's not here on earth. And here on earth, we silence grief with busyness and we distract ourselves with scrolling. We self medicate and we just kind of expect people to move on before their hearts are ready because maybe I'm, you know, I'm kind of tired of talking about something that's sad. I, I want to move on. Even though you're ready. And even well meaning Christians can feel the pressure to just have that right spiritual response, the right Bible verse, the right perspective, the right timeline for healing. Just. It's almost like a pop quiz in the moment. But we know better as human beings. We know better as families. Every family eventually walks through some sort of loss and it may be the death of a spouse or a parent or a child, a miscarriage, infertility, divorce, a prodigal children, a broken dream, a chronic illness like we talked about yesterday, or just watching life unfold so much differently than how we imagined it to be. Grief is part of living in this broken world, it is part of our normal human experience. But scripture tells us not to ignore grief. Jesus wept. We know that. David lamented. We know Job cried out why and in the middle of his suffering. And Paul described God as the father of compassion and the God of all comfort. So today we're talking about what does biblical comfort really look like? Not just easy answers, not spiritual cliches, but the presence of Christ in suffering. And our guest understands this in a very deeply personal way, as is often the case. And I'm so encouraged every time I hear someone share hope in the midst of hurting or.

Lisa Appelo has written a new devotional journal called God of Comfort

We welcome today Lisa Appelo And she suddenly became a widow after the unexpected death of her husband at a young age, her husband Dan. She found herself raising seven children while navigating that overwhelming journey of grief herself. And out of that journey has come a very powerful ministry of hope, and really a beautiful new devotional journal called God of Comfort. And it reminds us that the way through grief isn't a formula. It's not a life hack, it's not a class. It is a. And we're so glad to have her here. We first had her, actually, in May of 2024. We talked about her book, Life Can Be Good Again, Putting your world back together after it falls apart. I would encourage you, if you know someone walking through a grief journey, just give them that and don't say a word about it. Just say, I just saw this and thought you could use it. But today we're talking about our new devotional journey, God of Comfort, a devotional journal for the grieving heart. It's beautiful. It's such a beautiful book. It'd be beautiful for someone to use it, but to give it to someone. Lisa, we're so glad to have you back here. Thank you so much for joining us again.

Lisa Appelo: Thank you, Jessica. So good to be back with you. And thank you for. For making space for this. You said it's a tough topic, and it is. So thank you for having me.

Dr. Jessica Peck: It is a tough topic, but I know of no one more hopeful than you, Lisa. You just always encourage me, even despite what you've walked through. And I'm so grateful for the ways that you use your gifts as a Bible teacher, a speaker, an author, a ministry leader.

Lisa's husband Dan died unexpectedly with no warning

And you walked this journey, and there may be some who definitely remember your story. I know it definitely stuck with me, but there are so many people who relate to what you went to. It's that before and after moment, the phone call, the diagnosis, the just unexpected turn in life, and for those who haven't heard your story, would you please take us back to that before and after moment that you walked through and tell us about your grief journey?

Lisa Appelo: Yes. You know, I was married to my high school sweetheart. We had met, if you can believe it or not, in seventh grade. So we had a long history together. Of course, he was just another boy across the room. but my high school, we were dating. He was my first boyfriend. Boyfriend and my only boyfriend. In college. We went to the same university together. We got married. And, you know, as I described my life, I would never describe it as perfect. We, for sure, went through struggles. We had marriage issues. We worked through. We had parenting struggles. We worked through financial. I mean, just all the things that you. You know, as a young and. And growing married couple, those things. And we had gone through. We had gone through real testing. I. I felt like. But honestly, you know, we came to a. Summer was actually Father's Day weekend, and we were in a good place. Dan was in a job that he loved. He had been in a job that was very frustrating, and God had moved us to a new city. He was in a job that he loved. I, of course, loved watching him fl. we had seven children by that time, and the youngest was four. The oldest was 19. He had just finished his first year of college. So I was kind of the hub of the wheel. I was just getting everybody where they needed to go and making sure the house was running and food was in the pantry and people were being fed and taken care of. And I liked being in that place. And I thought, you know, this would be the rest of my life. on a very normal Thursday night, we had pizza as a family, and kids went up to bed. I put the little to bed, and I had a big day the next day. So I said, you know, my husband was working in his chair, and I. For his. Doing some stuff for his mom. And I said, I'm gonna go to bed. Good night. Like, I. I just told him good night, like I had a thousand other nights. And he said, I'll be in there in a few minutes. And so I fell asleep. And sometime in the early dark morning hours of that Friday morning, I woke up to his funny breathing. And Jessica wasn't even awake enough to. To take in what was happening. Just heard that funny breathing, nudged him, you know, said, go ahead, turn it. I said, turn over, honey. I thought it was just a nightmare. And we wake up later to his alarm, but he didn't turn over. And that breathing continued. And I flipped on the overhead light and could see immediately that something was very wrong. And so we did all the things. we, you know, I started CPR. We called 91 1. They were there within, like, minutes. They took him by ambulance. And when I arrived to the hospital, they took me in that room you never want to go in. And a very kind ER doctor said that they had worked on Dan for over two hours, and they had never been able to revive him. And so that was it. Like you said, a before and after, with no signs, no symptoms, no warning. And that's so often we get that phone call or that diagnosis. There's no, like, you know, premonition that something's going to happen or no forward notice. And so I went home to tell my seven children that their dad was in heaven and to try to walk through this with them.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Lisa, I. I've heard you share your story many times now. And even still now I sit here just with chills, just with the, just heartache in my heart. I just feel an aching in my spirit. And even when you said, okay, I did all the things I did cpr, I mean, everything that you listed after that, Lisa, is nothing that anybody should ever have to do. Nothing that, anybody ever wants to do. You never think about doing. And there may be even people sitting here thinking, I don't. I don't want to think about that. That scares me. That just brings some fear into my heart, because I don't even want to think about that, because that happens.

What would you say to people who just feel their immediate response to hearing your story would be fear?

What would you say to people who just feel their immediate response to hearing your story would be fear? What would you say to them now that you have been on that before and after? What have you learned about God that helps to quell that fear of the unimaginable?

Lisa Appelo: Well, that's a great question, because I think when something like this happens, these are the kind of things that happen to other people. I was the one who was very happy to bring the casserole to somebody else. And now here it was in my life. And it takes our mind so long to wrap itself around the fact that this is now our life. And I was very fearful. I felt like at any moment, the other shoe could drop. If this happened, what else would happen? And so I. I had to really grapple with that. If I realized early on in my journey that if I did not get a handle on this fear, I would be completely paralyzed from moving forward or being able to show up to parent my children. And so I would say to that person listening that when those thoughts come first of all, the things we fear rarely happen. secondly, you know, we have to rely on the promises of God. We have to live this life that he's given us right now. And we have to take captive that fear because it will paralyze us. It will keep us from m. Savoring the good and living in the good that is now. And so I learned to, take captive those lies, that fear, have that fear drives, and to replace it with the truth of. Truth of God. So the truth is that, God will give us grace for whatever. It will be too much for us to handle, but God will absolutely be present in it. He will absolutely give us grace for it. He will absolutely, give us purpose again. And even in those events in life that we never saw coming or never wanted, he will bring good again. That is not like the end of

Dr. Jessica Peck: the story, you know, Lisa, it's one thing to have that for yourself, to go through that grieving, to do all of the physical things that are related to grieving, all of the emotional, the mental processes. But it's not lost on me that you had seven young children raging in age at that time from 4 to 19, that you not only had to take care of yourself, you still had to be that center of that hub, but you also had to now. You're everything. Now you're absolutely everything. And when your children are experiencing their world feeling shattered and life going on as you you didn't imagine it would be, how do you balance that taking care of yourself while also nurturing their faith journey? Because that just seems very overwhelming.

Lisa Appelo: Yeah. I think the first thing is that we have to make sure as a parent that we are anchored, just like we said, in the truth of God. And for me, that looked like I did have some older kids in the home. So I would kind of get them going in the morning and then I would get him in my. My minivan and drive around the corner to a park. And that is where I would cry out to God. I would ask the hard questions. I would journal through things. My kids had seen me cry. But that is where I kind of did the real deep, you know, work of grief. And then after doing that, I would open the Word. I was reading through the Bible. And so whether. Whether you have a devotional that you're reading or a Bible reading plan, open the Word and let God remind you of who he is and his promises for you, his character for you. And when we, like every day, I would kind of get re anchored and renew my hope I would be enough hope to go back home and show up for my kids that day. And it was not enough for the week. It was not like I could do that on Monday and then it would get me all the way through the week. I was in such an intense time for myself and for my children that I needed that every day. And so, so I think when we are walking kids through the first thing is to anchor ourselves in the truth of God. and the second is to be a student of our children. My kids were all different ages, you know, I had boys and girls and so the teens were grieving differently than the, than the little ones. and so to be a student of our child, of their personality, of what they're doing and to, to try to meet them where they are, create a warm place in your home that they feel safe, safe to open up about grief or their questions or whatever is going on. We can't fix their pain. And that, that is a hard realization as a parent because that's our, that is our go to. We just are like made to want to fix our take it away for them and we can't fix it. All we can do is love them in it, point them to God and walk with them in it.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Lisa, you have so much wisdom to offer. Everything that you have said, it's just filled with encouragement and wisdom and I'm so glad that you brought up that, that need to create space and grace for everyone to grieve differently. Because you're absolutely right. Even thinking about children, they grieve differently developmentally depending on how their brain can think, even accepting the permanency of death, they're ah, at a completely different place. Your littles are going to be at a much different place than those who are older and more capable of abstract thinking. And then you layer on God given temperament and personality and how some are going to cope by you know, just powering through and some are going to cope by being. It's that kind of trauma response. You know, some are going to freeze, some are going to want to run, some are, are going to want to fight and that, that is perfectly, perfectly normal.

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Well, we're already coming up on our first break Lisa, but when we come back, one of the things that I want to talk about is a timeline for grief. Now I talked to you first, you know, a couple of years ago and this has you now have many years removed since Dan went to, to be home with the Lord. And I think that helps give you perspective. But Grief is not a linear journey. And I think in today's society, we don't have a lot of patience for grief that lasts a long time. We just kind of want instant fix, instant gratification that makes me feel uncomfortable. Like, can we just move on? Now let's talk about that loopy, back and forth, messy journey that is grief, that it ebbs and it flows. And what perspective God has given you in healing over time. The devotional is called a Devotional journal for the Grieving Heart. God of Comfort by Lisa Appelo Someone in your life needs that word of encouragement. We'll have more for you after this break. It's been four years since the overturn of Roe, but tragically, abortions have continued to rise. Today, the abortion pill accounts for more than 60% of all abortions. In last year alone, over 1.1 million babies lost their lives. That's why the work of PreBorn Network clinics is more urgent than ever. Everyday mothers facing unplanned pregnancies walk through preborn's doors, searching for hope. Instead of pressure and fear, they're met with love. Through a free ultrasound, mothers meet their baby for the very first time. It was like the beginning of my healing journey. They do an ultrasound and that's when everything changed. Because when I saw my baby and, when I heard her heartbeat, that was it.

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Heart of the Father by Ryan Ellis : I've, never known a love like yours. So intimate, so powerful. And I've tasted, I've seen. And nothing comes close. I've never known a love like yours. Jesus. Your name is power. It's breath and living water. And your spirit guides me to the heart of the father. Letting your praise be louder every day and every hour. Cause your spirit guides, me to the heart of the father.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Welcome back, friends. That is Heart of the Father by Ryan Ellis. And we are talking today about the heart of the father for people who are grieving. We're talking today to Lisa Apollo and an author, a Bible teacher, and she is the author of a new devotional called God of Comfort, A Devotional Journey for the Grieving Heart. We have had Lisa on before, and she's written another book called Life Can Be Good Again. She talks about losing her precious husband Dan unexpectedly when her seven children were young. And we've been talking about some of the realities of grief that. Including giving yourself permission to grief, knowing that grieving hurts, loss hurts. Even though we know that God is good, we know that life is hard, too. We know that children grieve differently than adults, and developmentally, it takes them a longer time. And when you, when you build in their temperament, it can be hard. When you see someone grieving, not like you're grieving, and you think, oh, you, you don't care as much.

Lisa Appelo: And they do.

Dr. Jessica Peck: God just made us all differently. I can tell you that presence matters so much more than your words. Just sitting there with someone, giving them love, giving them comfort, just being there matters so much more than giving them a word of wisdom. And God is not intimidated by our questions. And Lisa, before the break, we were talking about how really, I think society today, we are so acculturated to instant gratification. We want to feel comfortable. And so we have even gotten really good as a society to start self, medicating where we are. We know how to scroll, we know how to numb out, we know how to run away. We know how to do anything that we can to not feel that grief, not to walk through it. We don't want to do that. And when, you know, I think when somebody's grieving now, you look at their social media presence and you think, oh, they're already moving on. Oh, they're already doing that. Or, oh, they're, they're still, they're still grieving over that. And it's been how many years? I can't imagine what it would be like to live in a full fishbowl like that and to try to manage everybody's expectations of a timeline for grief. But now that you have some perspective, what would you, what wisdom could you give us in looking at that timeline and helping, supporting people through that timeline, or even our own timeline of a grief journey?

Lisa Appelo: You know, I think, you're absolutely right that our culture, our culture is grief naive and that. And it, it does unsettle us. And so Our culture tries to box it in and put it in a box. I think it would tell the person who is either walking with somebody who grieving or is walking through a loss themselves that grief will likely take longer than you think, and it will probably be harder than you imagine. And I know that doesn't sound like good news, but I tell you that because sometimes when somebody tells you that, it does, allow you to say, well, okay, well, that's why I'm still feeling this way. Well, that's why this still hurts. That's why I still got triggered yesterday. And, no two journeys are alike. It is going to be completely different. So you may have somebody in your life who had a similar loss, and theirs looks different. They have taken some steps that you just can't imagine taking right now. And that's okay. That is okay. The beautiful thing is God never gives us a timeline. Never do we see in Scripture him saying, you should be over this by now, or, this is what I expect of you. He has no expectations. He simply invites us to bring our hurt and our pain to him and to keep going to him and trusting. Trusting that, that it won't always feel like that. So while I would say to somebody it would probably take longer than our society says and be harder than our society makes it out to be, it won't always feel like this. And the good news is that when we do that work of, when we work through loss, and it is excruciating, but as we do that, we may first feel like we're cycling back through, like, whoa. Like I am cycling back through these same things that I thought I had already processed, and here I am again. That is the nature of grief. It is not just linear steps forward. And so as you work through grief, you will find likely that those cyclings become farther and farther apart and. And they last less long, those pits of grief. And you will see signs that, that you have a new plan for the day or that you were able to talk about your person with a certain smile on your face and a warm memory instead of, like, painful tears. So the good news is that it won't always feel like this. And tell yourself that when you have that day where this enemy is lying to you and saying, like, this is all there is and you will never have joy again, you coach yourself that this. It will not always feel like this, that God does have joy for you.

Dr. Jessica Peck: You know, Lisa, I think somewhere in that timeline, people just don't know what the norm is. And people generally in General are, very kind hearted, they're very well intentioned, and they don't want to say anything. So if it seems like, okay, your grief journey is getting better, like, oh, I don't want to bring up anything, I don't want to ask anything because I don't want to trigger grief response. I don't want to make you sad. I don't want to make you think something like that, or, you know, so sometimes they just don't say anything. Like, I'll bring it up if they bring it up. But I remember very specifically one friend that I had who had lost her husband. And I brought something up about her husband and she, all of a sudden she just broke into the biggest smile. I did not expect her to smile, but she just said, oh, it's so good to hear someone say his name. And you just gave me the gift of his presence. You just gave me the gift to someone else who remembers him. And I remember him and I don't want him to be forgotten. And I know, Lisa, that everybody's response is going to be different. But what words of encouragement can you give to other people who are on the outside of this grief journey and how they can create some space for uncomfortable emotions just to give people freedom to grieve, to say, hey, I just want to give you freedom to have whatever emotion you're feeling in the moment, like, that's okay. Don't feel like you need to apologize if it comes up, we'll just take it as it comes. How can people be more comfortable in that uncomfortable space?

Lisa Appelo: I think the first thing is don't expect to fix their pain. You don't have magic words. You don't have a magic thing that you're going to do that is going to. Just like I couldn't fix my children's pain. We cannot fix one another's pain. That is a role for God. He is our healer. But you can walk with him in it. You can be with him. The best thing that somebody wants to hear is you're not alone and their grief. And so your friend, when she gave, when she mentioned or you, when you mentioned your friend's, spouse, that name, you entered into that place and didn't stay on the outside where it would have been more comfortable. So the first thing is don't expect to, fix her pain. And the second thing is I do think we're gonna have to be okay with awkward. It will feel awkward even. Honestly, as somebody who has walked through deep grief, when I go meet as I Did this weekend. A brand new widow. When I, as I just shared with you, one of my children is walking through a very deep loss. And I there, I find myself questioning, is this, should I say this? Should I do this? Will this be too much? Do they know I care and so just be okay with awkward. It is. It's a tough place. I would say proactively, what somebody can do is to. If you have a picture of that person, if you have a story of that person, if you know that person, yes, absolutely share. You will not remind them of their loss. They're thinking about it 24 7. And those are like, those are just pockets of joy in their grief even, even five years later or on a milestone day for you to say, I'm thinking about them. I'm thinking about you today and praying for you today. for you to say, if you don't have any words to say, just to say, I am praying for you. Is there some specific way I can pray for you? Don't say, how are you doing? That's too big. Nobody can answer that. not even, how are you doing today? They're overwhelmed in every way. But to say, I am praying for you. Is there something specific I can pray that just opens the door and lets them share as much as they want to share, and then you be faithful to that. Take that. Like, say, I'm going to steward this for you. And you know that whatever it is that they've given you, whether it's one of their children or to sleep well or, or maybe it's a task that they need to take care of, that you will cover that in prayer. I think those are some of the ways that we can come along those in who are, who are suffering or who are walking through a loss.

Dr. Jessica Peck: You know, you talked, Lisa, in your own personal grief journey about going to the Lord, about finding comfort in the presence of the Lord. You've just reminded us to take our, our friends, our family members, our loved ones who are hurting, take their burdens to the Lord. And yet there's a tension there because when you go into the presence of the Lord, you know that the Lord could have intervened. You know, I'm sure that you had those thoughts, Lisa. I know that you have because you've written about it like, like, why didn't God act another way? Why didn't he save this person? Why didn't he prevent this from happening? How do you. And you've. But you've also told us that God is not afraid of our questions. How do you sit in the presence of God and give him those tough questions like that, thinking, why did this happen? And sitting with the one that you feel like could have changed that, yet trusting him with the outcome. How in the world do you get to that place?

Lisa Appelo: Place, Jessica? You know, it was probably only a few months after Dan passed away where I read a viral news story. I think it was in my own state about a very similar situation. This wife had had woken to her husband's funny breathing. They did. They tried cpr. They took him to my ambulance, to the hospital. Well, they pronounced him dead. And then m. They were doing. They had disconnected all of the machines. The more they were preparing him to go to the moor. The end. his son walked in. He had a young, Like a young adult son walked into the room. His father had been pronounced dead. And he said, you're not going to die today, dad. And something happened. And that father began breathing again. And all the doctors, you can read about it, they're actually believers. They still testify to it today. the doctors were like, we have no explanation. This is a miracle. And I remember reading that, and my heart sank because I was like, you know, I prayed too. I believed too. And, I would have testified for you, God. We would have gone around and shared your miracle, and we didn't get it. And I know there's somebody listening who prayed. You had people praying for you. You even saw signs that God might be moving on your behalf, and yet you did not get the outcome that you wanted. And I think it is a place of tension. That place between the life that we wanted and the life that we have is surrender. That's what fills that gap. And we have to know, yes, God, you could. I believe you could have done it. And you are all powerful. but you didn't. And so I have to surrender my will to yours. This is what Jesus. Jesus did in the Garden of Gethsemane. He knew God. He said, if there is any other way. He knew God had all power to do all things. And yet, what did he say? But not my will, but yours. And you know, God never rebuked him for coming and lamenting and sweating drops of blood in this hard situation. God will not turn away our hard questions either. I have seen God work a miracle since then with a baby in our family who was born not breathing. And I remember thinking, lord, I cannot leave this hospital without this baby. It was one of my granddaughters. My daughter was still under anesthesia. She had no idea what was happening. Her husband was serving overseas. He had no idea what was happening. And God did.

Why does God do it sometimes and not? We won't know until heaven

He brought a miracle. Absolute miracle. Why does God do it sometimes and not. We won't know until heaven. and if we did, if we. I think sometimes we want to know because we think if we knew the answer that it wouldn't hurt so bad. But I think if God even told us the answer, if we could even understand it, I'm not sure we'd agree. And so that place between the life that we wanted and the life that we had have is surrender.

Dr. Jessica Peck: That is a tough truth. But that led you to the place where he met the God of all, comfort.

Lisa Appelo writes a devotional journal for the grieving heart

Lisa. And I think you hit the nail on the head when you talked about. We do not have a savior who is not acquainted with our suffering. He knows our suffering. He bore our sorrows. He's acquainted with grief. We have a savior who took on the suffering of the world. He knows that. And that is something that he. That. That is a. That. That's a place of comfort knowing that this isn't someone who's never. Who just sits up, you know, very distant and. And does, you know, just has a. This perfect lives in this perfect paradise. And. Oh, yes, you. You get your answer. You don't get your answer. This is a God who walked in our shoes, who became fully human, who knows what it's like to suffer. How did you find comfort? Because that's the name. That's the name of your devotional, Lisa. The God of comfort. Which just seems like, why didn't he comfort me with a miracle? What have you learned about the ways that God comforted you?

Lisa Appelo: Yeah. You know, you said at the beginning there's a lot of things we can turn to in grief. We can turn to. We can try to self medicate. we can try to escape it. You know, we can try to just scroll and. Or fake that we're fine. But in the end, we have to deal with our grief. And so what do we do when we're sitting in that place facing our pain? Well, God meets us at every pain point when we. I can remember nights where I was so lonely and, you know, the. The nighttime, the evenings when my kids would go up and go to bed and the house was finally quiet. Those used to be my cherished times. I would. I looked forward to those times because that's when I had time to myself. And after Dan died, they were. They were excruciating because I had time all to myself and. And, God met me there. You know, I, all I can say is that he sustained me through it. And he will sustain us through every pain, the physical pain of grief, through the, the missing of grief, through the loss of the future that we thought we would have. but he also comforts us, as you said, through his presence. He was palpably present in my grief. And he. And if somebody's listening and they're saying, well, I haven't experienced that, I would just encourage you. You know, Psalm 34:18 says that God is near to the brokenhearted. And we know that Scripture also says that when we draw near to him, that he will draw near to us. And so I would encourage you not to just say, well, that's not for me. That's not my experience. And write it off. Like, get into the word, like, pray and ask God and say, lord, I know I need to sense that you are with me in this. And then look for his hand. Look for his hand all around you.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Lisa.

Lisa Appelo: God's goodness was there for us.

Dr. Jessica Peck: God's goodness. I want to hear more. We have more to talk about with Lisa Apollo, a devotional journal for the grieving heart. God of comfort, more hope and healing on the other side of this break. We'll be right back.

 : America's 250th birthday. It's a great excuse to have some extra cake and ice cream, but we can help your celebration go well beyond that. Show your patriotism with America 250 apparel that will become a memento of this special year. We also have special episodes on AFA Stream to help underscore that America is a Christian nation and help you find God in the Constitution. Find all of this and more in one place. afa.net/topics/250

Comforter by CeCe Winans: Faithful friend and father taught you through the years you've been great position. When sickness linger near through distressing moment. Your name is new and sweet. You've become comforter to me. You are, comfortable Comforter. That's who you are to me. Comforter. A name that fits so perfectly. Peace that passes all understanding. Comforter is who you are.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Welcome back, friends. That is Comforter by Cece Winans. And that's exactly what we're talking about. I'm talking to Lisa Apollo today about her grief journey. Losing her husband at, far too young an age, leaving seven young children behind. And she's talking about her grief journey. We've talked with Lisa before. She's written a book called Life Can Be Good Again. Putting your world back together after it all falls apart. If you are walking a grief journey, especially losing a spouse. I really encourage you to find the words of comfort and hope that Lisa shared in her journey. And today she's here talking about a new devotional that she's written called the God of Comfort, a devotional journal for the grieving heart. And someone in your life needs to feel this encouragement, this comfort. I encourage you. Just put it on their doorstep, put it in the mail to them, put it in their hands at church. Just drop it off to them. Just say, hey, I saw this. I thought it might be comforting to you. And that's all you have to say? Say, I thought. I thought you could use this. I just wanted. I just felt like I should give this to you. Expect nothing in return. Now, we've heard Lisa say many times, and I think it bears repeating, comfort is not about fixing someone's pain, about taking it away. And in today's society, we're subconsciously kind of groomed towards that. Like, oh, let's just make it better. Take this supplement. Take this, this class, this breathing technique. All of those things can be helpful. There can be things that are helpful on a grief journey, but comfort isn't about removing pain. It is about discovering God's faithful presence in every season. And I, remember we just listened to Cece Winan sing. I listened to her sing the Goodness of God and singing, all my life, you've been faithful, even in those moments in the valley, even those moments of grief and loss. And we're talking about hope, and not just a shallow optimism or, how do you just go on in this world? But genuine hope that allows you not only to survive loss, but to thrive. And that definitely seems countercultural. And so, Lisa, I'm going to give it back to you and let you talk. you were right in the middle of some really good thoughts about sitting in God's presence in the midst of pain. And then I'd love for you just to share more about your grief journey and how you find those ways to thrive even while still carrying the weight of that loss.

Lisa Appelo: You know, one of the things I. That was very helpful for me was to look for God's goodness when life felt so bad. I think if you had asked me, I would have agreed. Like, theologically, yes, God is good, but I struggled with, is he good to me in this? Because I didn't feel it. My circumstances certainly didn't look it. I remember waking up every morning like it was Groundhog Day, thinking, thinking, I cannot believe this is my life. And I. I have to walk through those same painful emotions and. And help my kids, and so well into my grief. This was not in the first few weeks. This was months and months into my grief. I thought, I have got to. I've got to see God's goodness. And I opened up a journal, and I numbered one through seven. And I thought back about the day before and just wrote seven very ordinary things. You know, places where I had seen God's hand. Maybe it was the rain on the roof or a text that came in from a friend at the right time. And then the next day, I numbered 8 through 14, and I did the same thing. And the. The uncanny thing is, is that when we look for God's goodness, we will begin to see more things to thank him for. We will begin to see his goodness all around us. It opens our eyes to his goodness. And it's not that it changed my situation or that the PA any less. It's that it was a reminder that God was still with me, that all of the good was not behind me, that there was still good and joy in this life. And, that if I would do this work through grief, that I would begin to see that more and more. So that was a very practical way that I was able to see God's comfort and see his hand on us and around us in loss.

Lisa says grief will surface on milestone days as life begins to move on

Dr. Jessica Peck: You know, Lisa, I'm sure your children were a comfort to you, because children, just have a way of just. Just being so innocent and so transparent and just really, they. They don't have the. Especially the younger children are. They don't have some of those social pressures that we feel to manage our grief in a. In a way that's, you know, more presentable to the public. They just experience what they experience, and they may laugh one minute, they may cry the next minute. But that can be really hard when you're talking about those moments where you feel like, okay, you're getting out of that acute phase of grief where you wake up as Groundhog Day. How do I even get up and put one foot in front of the other, and you start resuming your life again? There can be some complicated emotions that come along with that, too. How did you navigate that? And how do you navigate maybe the guilt that you feel for, okay, well, maybe I had a moment where I wasn't sad. How does that continue to work? And where do you see God in all of that?

Lisa Appelo: That, I think for the family who's grieving or for the person who's grieving, you know, as life begins to move On. And it's not that grief is not as acute anymore. It will surface. And it will especially surfaces on the milestone days. on a birthday or anniversary or you see somebody else celebrating something and you think, well, I would. I wanted to celebrate my anniversary. We worked really hard in our marriage. Marriage or, you know, a child that was the same age as the child that you lost, and you are tracking with that child and remembering your own and what that child would be doing now. That grief will surface all over again, and it's going to look different for everybody. But I would just say make space for that grief and be very intentional about it. On those milestone days, I have learned that my body remembers. I will think I'm okay. I'm, I'm. I'm. I'm fine. I'm this many years in, and yet it still takes a toll on me. And I'll find either that day, sometimes the next day that I'm, like, really tired. I'm kind of unproductive. My body has just been working through this loss. So I would say make space for it, and be very intentional in the way that you want to recognize it as your family. On those milestone days, you may have traditions that you want to do. You may make a favorite dish. You may go to the grave site. You may, take a trip together to kind of get away and have that time together as a family. There's. You may plant a flower garden or go serve. You know, go, serve somebody in your community as a way to honor. There are so many ways that will mean something to you or to your particular family. And I would say, and it may be different year to year, you're not held to it. If in year one, you had to get away for Christmas because you could not stand to be in your home. But year two, you really want to be in your home, that's fine. Like, it's going to change. Your children may change in the way they respond to grief. And so just keep the traditions that help, let go of those that don't help and be open as a family. You know, I think for my children, it's important for me. I have seen them do, I mean, really flourish in their life as their life has grown around their grief. And they've got their own families now. And yet sometimes on those hard days, those Father's Day, you know, the days when they're having. They would have loved for their dad to clap their back and say, atta boy or atta girl, it can really surface. And so Sometimes we talk about it audibly, and sometimes we all just know. And we just all know.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, you know, Lisa, when you shared your story, you know, you. You wrote this book. Life can be good again, Putting your world back together after it all falls apart. And you share very candidly your experience walking through grief and what that looked like. And God has given you a ministry of grief, which I'm sure you probably think sometimes, like, why, Lord? Why couldn't I have gotten something different? But something stirred in your heart to continue on, to see this need for this devotional journal, for this devotional journey is what it is. And it's 50 days. What did God put on your heart to put in this book for people, you know who are walking a similar road of grief that you are walking? What do you hope that they will get out of this journey that God has put in your heart to share with them?

Lisa Appelo: You know, culture tells us, as we talked about at the beginning, that, that there's a set of stages through grief, that if we. I remember meeting with somebody new in grief, and she had a pen and paper, and she wanted a checklist. Checklist. She wanted the checklist of what she could do to get through grief. And I thought, oh, if it was only that easy. Because it's not a checklist. It's a messy mix of emotions and forward steps. And then you go back a little bit. And so the way through grief is not a method. It's not a prescription. It is a person. And it is the. It is the God of all comfort. And He m. Meets us in our grief. And some days that looks like tears. Quiet tears on your pillow, where you feel like nobody can see or understand your pain. But God does. And he hears you and he knows. And he is bottling every tear. None is wasted. Some days it looks like crying out before the Lord, asking questions about, what now and how do I get through this? And opening scripture and seeing, you know, the hope that God still has for you. So, you know, the. Jessica. If we. If we never were in a place of pain where we needed comfort, we would never know the comforter. If we were never in a place where we were in desperate need, we would never know his provision. If we were never in a place where we were just heartbreakingly lonely, we would never know God's sustaining grace. He is all of these things for us. And none of us would ask for these places, right? We would be like, hard pass, please. And yet God meets us there, and we get to know him in a way that we would never give back. I would. I would not want this for anyone or for our own life, but I would not want to go back to the girl I was before. Because I know God in ways. I have seen him in ways. I have developed an intimacy with him in ways that I never would have had otherwise.

Dr. Jessica Peck: You know what I just was thinking about, Lisa, as you were talking about that and thinking about, you know, your story and wanting it to be different. I was thinking about, you know, what if life was perfect and everything went the way that we want and we got all of our dreams and nothing really hard ever happened and nobody got sick. And then it just occurred to me, Lisa, that we have that right now. It's called social media. It's the highlight reel of everybody's life. And we scroll through and we see all the perfect highlights, lights, and Lisa, what does that make everybody feel? Research shows it makes us feel anxious, depressed, like our life isn't measuring up. Like we don't find joy in that. But what are the stories that resonate with people? It's, stories of hardship, stories of loss, stories of overcoming, stories of of just impossibleness, you know, where you just see, like, the resilience of the human spirit that God gave us, that God and God stories. That's. That's what resonates with us. And I think that God had to have put that in our heart, hearts to know that, you know, this is the. This world is not our home. This world is not perfect. And if we just look at a life that this is all that there is, that, hey, I'm just going to try to make this life the happiest that there is. And then because when it's over, it's over. Or we can say, hey, this world is tough and we don't understand it. But somehow in some way that we don't understand, God is going to make all things right. God is going to make all things new. I'll understand the things that I don't understand. Now that's the place that I want to sit in, Lisa. And it's people like you who encourage and strengthen my hope in that. My hope in heaven as our home.

What has God done to shift your perspective to living for eternity?

What has God done to shift your perspective to living for eternity and not just not knowing that this world is broken, but it's not all that we have.

Lisa Appelo: Yeah. You know, you are absolutely right that we can, we can, can hyper focus on our circumstance, or we can look around at everybody else who is seemingly living their best life, or we can look back at the life that we wanted. Right? But God wants us to fix our eyes on him. And while none of us would want a place of suffering, what it does is it helps us loosen our grip on this world to say, to be that stark reminder that this place that we were so focused on is not our home. That we. We better be building up treasure in heaven. I know when Dan died, I was almost, I was stunned at how this place seemed far off and distant. It was a one day someday heaven now was so close and so real. And to live in light of eternity is a gift. And so for the person who is walking through loss, for the person who feels the, you know, the pain of their. Their physical body and has seen a physical body deteriorate, we know it. It is in some ways a gift to know that this world is not our home and that we don't have to live with regrets, of. Sick of doing everything we can to. To make this world, all there is. Because we have an eternity with the Lord. And so to fix our eyes on God, who is our dwelling place.

Dr. Jessica Peck: You know, I think about Savannah Guthrie and her mother, of course, who the whole world was following and disappeared and the tragedy that happened there that still the details are not known. And I did hear her in an interview asking someone. Somebody was questioning her saying, are you going to question your faith? Because God has allowed this to happen. And I remember her saying, no, God is the only way. God is how. I'm holding hands with my mom, and I thought that was a really beautiful way to put it because it makes it seem so much closer. And Lisa, today is the day this devotional is released out into the world. It's called God of comfort, A devotional journal for the grieving heart. It's by Lisa Appelo And someone in your life needs this lifeline and I encourage you just to get it. Give it to them and don't say a word. Just give it to them. Give them a hug. Pray for them. Maybe you need it for yourself. Wherever you are, whatever you're walking through, I pray, I always do, that the Lord will bless you and keep you. Make his face to shine upon you and give you peace. I'll see you back here tomorrow. We'd like to thank our sponsors including preborn. Preborn has rescued over 400,000 babies from abortion. And every day their network clinics rescue 200 babies lives. Will you join preborn in loving and supporting young moms in crisis? Save a life today. Go to preborn.com/AFR the views and

Jeff Chamblee: opinions expressed in this broadcast. May not necessarily reflect those of the American Family association or American Family Radio.

Jessica talks with Lisa Appelo about finding Christ-centered comfort for the hardest days of life. 

https://lisaappelo.com/