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Jeff Chamblee: Hello and welcome to the Dr. Nurse Mama show prescribing Hope for healthy families here Family radio. Here's your host, professor, pediatric nurse practitioner and mom of four, Dr. Jessica Peck.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Well hey there friends. Welcome to my favorite time of day getting to spend time with you prescribing Hope for healthy families. And in a week like this week. We talked yesterday about the heaviness of grief and I know that just like me, many of you are watching the news and anticipating the 25th anniversary of 911 that's coming up this Friday, which just seems unbelievable. And in a world that seems to thrive on the doom scroll, it can be easy to lose heart and also to ask big questions like why did this happen? And questions that there really is no good Answer for this side of heaven. And children are asking those questions too. They always have, they always will. And sometimes they're really wonderfully ordinary questions. I miss those days with my kids of, asking a million times, why is the sky blue? Why do dogs bark? Why do I have to go to bed when the sun is still out, thank daylight savings time? But then there are the questions that really stop us in our tracks as parents and grandparents. Does God really love me? Am I enough? And what is enough? What if I mess up? What if something bad happens to me or my family? What if I'm not smart enough or strong enough or kind enough or brave enough? And sometimes children don't even know how to articulate these questions that are swirling around in their hearts. But we see it manifested in their behavior. They can't say it with words, but we see it's misbehaving at bedtime, it's fears about going to school, it's perfectionistic behaviors, it's needing constant reassurance that everything's okay, that the world is safe, that they are loved. It's difficulty separating from their parents or just repeatedly asking, are you sure everything's going to be okay? That's a tough question to answer, because we can't tell them that everything's going to be okay, because we don't know that, but we can tell them. I don't know what the future holds, but I know who holds the future, and he is trustworthy. And the thing is, if we're really honest, these aren't just children's questions. They are human questions, because adults ask them too. Am I enough? Am I doing enough? Am I lovable? What happens when I fail? What happens when life feels out of control? Am I enough at my job and my marriage and my parenting and in my community, and we are raising children in a culture that can give them an enormous amount to worry about. Because if they're worried about something, if they're discontent with something, then there is a marketable solution most of the time. And kids and we, as adults, are encountering information and images and conflict and uncertainty and tragedy, comparison and expectation. But here's the thing about kids today. They are encountering that now at earlier and earlier stages. It's becoming very, very difficult to protect them like we once could. So how do we help our kids become resil, resilient without just telling them, don't worry. How do we reassure them without constantly feeding that need for reassurance? And as Christian parents and grandparents, how do we move beyond just saying God loves you, which is such an important thing to say. We need to say that over and over to help them really walk that out in their faith, understand it, believe it, really soak it in in their daily life experience the security of that truth from the top of their head to the bottom of their feet. And that's a, where a beautiful no children's book comes in.
Courtney Doctor wrote a children's book called Andy and His Big Question
We are talking today to Courtney Doctor now. She wrote this book called Andy and His Big Question, a story about how God's love always comes first. And here's the thing that caught my eye about this, that I think is just one of the most charming, sweetest things. And I have already told Courtney I think she's going to inspire grandparents out there today to do this with their own grandkids. She wrote this with her grandson Bo who was 9 at the time. Isn't that precious? And she. It takes children to Andy's grandparents farm and they see a, simple scripture about loving God with all your heart, soul and mind. You probably know that scripture and your strength. And it triggers, though, a surprisingly big worry. What if I'm not kind enough? I'm not smart enough, I'm not strong enough. And his grandmother, God bless all the grandmothers out there, helps him discover a foundational theological truth. God's love is not something we earned because he first loved us. He first loved us. And that gives us so much to talk about. Not just how a children's book, can help us respond, but how we respond in our own lives and how a children's book can help us do that when the children in our lives are worried or afraid or asking questions that are bigger than they seem.
Courtney Doctor is a Bible teacher, author and grandmother of five
So, I'm, I'm so pleased to introduce to you Courtney Doctor She wears a lot of hats. She's a Bible teacher, an author, a grandmother of five. She's a director of women's initiatives for the Gospel Coalition. She's co host of the Deep Dish podcast podcast. She holds an M Div. A Masters in Divinity from Covenant Theological Seminary. She's written several books and Bible studies. And we do want to give a shout out to her co author and grandson Bo who was nine when this book was created. Bo loves Legos and drawing and Star wars and playing with friends. And he hopes this book helps other people understand the never ending love of God. Courtney, so happy to have you here. Thank you so much for this just refreshing bit of encouragement that you've already brought our way.
Courtney Doctor: Oh, my word, what a joy to be here and to talk about this. So thanks for having me on. This is such a privilege.
Courtney: Tell us about how you came to know the Lord
Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, Courtney, let's start with you. And, you know, you are a grandmother now, but you were once a little girl. You were once a little kid, like we all were, with questions. Tell us about how you came to know the Lord and how he has worked in your life to call you to ministry, bringing you to the joy of ministering with your grandson. I just. I cannot love that enough.
Courtney Doctor: I can't either. It's just like the pinnacle of what the Lord's called me to do, to be able to do this. I was raised in a. In a moral home, in a home where we went to church a lot of Sundays. But I wouldn't say it was a home of deep faith. Praise, God. Now, my parents, my brother, they all love Jesus, but that wasn't necessarily part of my upbringing. I was invited to youth group, and I heard the gospel, and I responded. And then. And I look at that time as when the Lord brought me to faith. but we then stopped going to church. There was no discipleship. It's one reason I'm a huge advocate for discipleship in the local church. and so I really just spent eight years not looking at all like I had made a profession of faith. but God is faithful to finish what he starts. And so in my early 20s, he started working in my heart and mind and calling me back to himself and putting me in really good churches. And, Yeah, and so it's been a. It's. It's been a journey with him since then of just loving his word and learning to walk in his ways.
Dr. Jessica Peck: one of the greatest joys I think I have it in hosting this program is hearing so many incredible testimonies. And praise God for the family who invited you to the youth group so that if that's your sign, look around at your neighbors, at your relatives, at your friends. Who do you need to be inviting to church? That is so encouraging to me and Courtney, One of the things that I love about this children's book that you wrote with Bo that's so precious. I'll. I'll say that the whole time because I do think it's so precious. I love that this story really begins with something really familiar to Christian families, because in our hearts, as parents, as grandparents, as other invested adults, we want to teach our children biblical truth. But sometimes when kids hear those things, they immediately turn it into a question about their own adequacy. And Andy hears that question like, we're supposed to love God with all our heart, soul, mind and strength. And instead of thinking, oh, that's beautiful, I'll do that. He's like, what if I can't do that? That sounds absolutely, really hard. So tell us about starting there and what inspired you to start with that really relatable question and what we can learn from. About. About it for the real children in our lives.
Courtney Doctor: Ah. it's a great question. So the publisher asked me, they said if. If you could write any message to your grandchildren, what would it be? And it really didn't take me long to think about that because there's this tension in my own heart right about. I so desperately want to love God with all my heart, mind, soul and strength. And I know that I don't. I see it in my own heart. I see that I love myself more than I should, more than I love others, more than I love God. And so I thought, I want them to understand. It's that. That tension of we're called to do something. I mean, it's called the greatest commandment. So there's a. There's something in that to obey. And yet when go to obey it, we realize we can't. And so I really wanted my grandchildren to understand that there is safety and security and a strong foundation that alleviates striving. When we understand, oh, you know, it's not actually our love for him that secures God's love. It's his love for us that then compels and prompts our love for Him. And so that changes everything, right? and actually, if you read the book, it gets to the end. And I love that we ended it. It wasn't there in the beginning, but it was a later edit. I love that it ends with. And then that made Andy love God even more. So there's this kind of full circle of like, I want to love God. I don't. What do I do? And then realizing how much God loves you, and then that compels Andy to love God more.
Dr. Jessica Peck: This is. It is such a foundational truth that comes from the book of First John 4:19. And it is a foundational message that I think we forget because we do tend to tell our kids, God loves you. God loves you. God loves you. But tell us more, Courtney, about why it's so important for us to tell our kids and make sure they know that he loved us first.
Courtney Doctor: Well, because then that changes the whole script, right? he. He chose us. He loved us like he. He set his favor on us. It tells us this over and over in the Old Testament with Israel, like, it was nothing that they did. It was just that He. He chose to love them. And so there's this. There's this joy and this safety and the fact that God set His sights on me long before I set my sights on Him. And so when you understand the order, there is just this. There's a resting that comes like, oh, if. If it wasn't my obedience that secured the love of God, if it wasn't my affection for him or my curiosity about him that. That turned his eyes towards me, but if he set his eyes on me first, then I can just receive it. And then it starts informing and shaping how I'm going to respond to that. That I am going to respond, oh, now I want to actually obey this really good and wise and loving God. And now I want to love him in the way that I've been loved. And so the steadfast love of God, it is the foundation that we stand on, for the entirety of our Christian lives and that we will one day realize fully when we see him face to face. But here it is the thing that we have to remind ourselves over and over again. Not just that it's true, but that it came first.
Bo and I wrote a book about being enough. And that is a truth that our kids need to hear
Dr. Jessica Peck: It's so good. You're reminding me of one of my favorite hymns, the Love of God. You know, if the sea were full of ink and the. And the sky was a. Ah, you know, a parchment made, and every stalk on earth a quill, and every man ascribed by trade we could not write the love of God above. And I've been listening, to. I've been listening to this one particular song on repeat. Honestly, Courtney, by Phil Wickham. And, it's the Jesus way and it talks. One of the lyrics has really caught my heart, saying, he wore my sin, I'll gladly wear his name. And thinking that is such a wild exchange. Like he knew. And yet while we were still sinners, God the Christ loved us and he died for us. And that is a truth that our kids need to hear because they are being bombarded by messages that they're not enough that you always have to earn approval. You have to image, craft. It's all about self help and, and what we can do to earn God's love, which there's nothing that we can do. And I'm gonna bet, Courtney, that working with Bo, you know, I think we continually underestimate what kids think and the. The complexity of what they. How deeply they can think about things and how God can use them really to speak such incredible truths. And I'm gonna bet that Bo probably surprised you in some way with the depth of his wisdom or insight. Is that. Did I get it right or wrong?
Courtney Doctor: Oh, for sure. both, you know, theologically and practically and even in the writing. He, one time I was reading an iteration of the manuscript to him because we would just go back and forth on these, and he said, I said something about the tree, and he stopped me and he said, Cece, he said, I think we should say the climbing tree. It's more specific. And I thought, well, you are write about that, you little writer, you. and so that ended up prompting one of the illustrations in the book. But yeah, he. And then. And then the night before we turned in the manuscript for the, you know, the. When we turned it in, it was the. The last iteration of it before we got edits back. He, he prayed. We were praying for the book, and he prayed that it would help children all over the world understand the love of God.
Dr. Jessica Peck: And I thought out of the mouth, right out of the mouths of babes
Courtney Doctor: and the necessity of the message.
Dr. Jessica Peck: That's right. I'm gonna hold you right there, Courtney. We're already at our first break, but I want to hear more. I want to hear more about what Bo thought about this message of being enough. And when we come back, we're really going to talk about what happens when worry takes over, because I know there's a lot of you out there who have, some worriers in your house and you might wonder, what can you do for them? We'll give you some help and some hope. Right on the other side of this break with Courtney, Dr. Andy and his big question. See you right after this break.
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Any More by CAIN: The same old guilt and regret you heard a thousand times before. After the choices you made, you waiting for me to say I couldn't love you anymore? The enemy has lied to you. But listen to me, here's the truth. I couldn't love you any More than I do right now. There's no way I wouldn't go to get to you, my child. Take A look at the cross Then you'll know if it's your. I couldn't love you I couldn't love you Anymore Anymore Anymore than I do right now Anymore, anymore Welcome back, friends.
Dr. Jessica Peck: That is any more by Cain. This is such an important message that we need to be giving to the children in our lives, and not just the children, but all of our loved ones. That God cannot love you any more than he does right now. There is nothing that we do to earn his love. It is a free gift. And I'm talking today to Courtney Doctor about that, who wrote a, really charming children's book called Andy and His Big Question, a story about how God's love always comes first. And kids do ask these big questions. And one of the big questions they ask is, does God really love me? Did he really make me on purpose? And one thing that I want to make sure that we all agree on together is that a question from a child like that does not need to send us into a panic over a potential crisis of faith. It is an invitation for an opportunity to discipleship. And that's what kids need more than anything else. They have a plethora overload of information coming their way, but they have a real scarcity of wisdom, and we can lean in and give them that kind of biblical truth and wisdom. So when a child asks, does God really love me? You don't have to panic. You can just slow down and listen and be curious and say, what made you wonder about that? Why aren't you thinking that? What do you know about God and how he feels about you? And what scriptures do you know? Ask them questions and then help connect their questions to the truth of scripture. Because kids don't need adults in their life who are frightened to death by their questions. They need adults who are willing to wonder with them, say, yeah, I don't know. That's a good question. Let's look at scripture. Let's look back at the character of God. Let's seek some wise biblical counsel on this. And that becomes really especially important when the question underneath that question is just absolutely filled with fear. And because sometimes does God love me? Is really asking, am I safe? Like, what? What is going to happen in the world? And sometimes what if I fail? Is really asking, will God still love me even if I mess up, even if I can't do this? And that's what we're talking about.
Courtney says children are willing to ask big questions about God
So, Courtney, right before the break, you were just talking about Bo, and I want to sure that we leave some more space to talk about that about his insight and really thinking about a nine year old, wondering, am I enough? Anything else that you'd like to share about what you learned from bo? Because I'm sure that you did.
Courtney Doctor: Yeah, just even being reminded again that, that children have these really big questions and there's something beautiful about the way children are just willing to ask them. There's no, there's no shame in asking them. I think a lot of times as adults we start thinking, you know, I should know this, I should know the answer to this, or you know, surely I've been told this at some point. And so even to your point of, there's usually a question underneath the question, there's usually something going on that's prompting the question. And so just to be reminded to see the wonder and the curiosity and the freedom to ask really big questions, I learned again how important that is and I want that to be true in my life. and it's what I saw in
Dr. Jessica Peck: VO and this theological truth that you have woven through the book is so important. You know, that God loved you first and that tells us about the character of God and then that teaches us to trust God because his character is trustworthy even when we don't understand his plan. And I think especially in today's day and age, Courtney, I, mean, I know I've seen it with my kids. They're exposed to so much worry inducing stuff and even if I try my best to protect them, you know, unless they live under a rock, like they're going to have friends who say something, neighbors. I mean, I've even had one of my kids, you know, had a really, really difficult time when I was just standing in the grocery store line and I was trying to buy groceries and they were just standing there bored, reading the headlines on the tabloids that were in the grocery store checkout. And this caused a lot of fear. I mean they can be a exposed. And sometimes I think our instincts as adults is either to just over reassure and just kind of blow them off, like thinking, I mean, with a good intention but just like, everything's fine, don't worry, I'm fine, you're fine, I'm fine, we're here. Or you just immediately try to solve the problem. But how do we sit with them in that uncertainty? Because kids are watching the images of what happened. They're learning in school this week about what 9, 11 happened. They know about violence that happens in their schools and they're afraid of that. We can't really tell them, oh, don't worry nothing like that will ever happen. How do we sit in that uncertainty while also reassuring them about the trustworthiness of God?
Courtney Doctor: Well, I think it's exactly what you're saying is that we point them back to the character of God. That is our, that is our sure foundation. That's an anchor for our souls. And I think so often we either do what you said, which is just kind of dismiss it, because we're a little bit uncomfortable with it, because maybe we haven't wrestled with it. And I think there is a lot to that that, you know, maybe the. Maybe what we need to even back up and say is we need to be doing some of our own heart work in this. We need to be sitting with some of our big questions, and we need to be letting the word of God wash over us and, and, and renew our minds and teach us new things about who God is and the way he works. And so, so I think there's like, personal work that has to be done. But then when the questions come to navigate your own heart and even your own anxiety in the questions, even anxiety over not knowing the answer because what you just said is so true, how do we just say, you know what? I don't actually know the answer to that. What a beautiful thing to model that you don't have to have all the answers. And then you could say, let's go seek wise counsel. What a beautiful thing to model. We have other saints who we can go to that can help us in this. And then to affirm, I'm so glad you asked this question. and then to, I think so often, especially in a question like this is, does God really love me? The tendency is to tell the child all of the lovable things about them. And the reality is that's not going to hold. because I know my own heart and soul too much. And you know what? So do they. They actually know. And that's what you see Andy wrestling with in the book is like, yeah, I'm kind of. Yeah, I'm smart, strong and kind sometimes, but sometimes I'm not. And we actually know these things to be true about ourselves. And so if we're anchoring, like the love of God in the character of the child, that's not going to be a sure foundation. It's not that the child's so lovable, no matter how lovable we think they are, it's that God is so loving. And so we anchor their understanding, we anchor their hope, we anchor the truth of, of the answer to their question in the nature and character of God, that. That he is love itself and that. That love. The Bible describes it, it's steadfast. It never changes, it never wavers. And so we start extolling the virtues of God because that's actually where our heart will find rest.
Dr. Jessica Peck: These are such important truths. And I think we are just so tempted now to try to fix their circumstances or fix their problems or. Or stop the uncomfortable emotion, because it's really hard to admit, Courtney. But as parents and grandparents, we want that immediate gratification. We want. When our kids come to us with questions, we want to be the little, you know, helper on the Internet that's like, oh, what's your order number? Oh, have you tried this? Have you tried this? Okay, all right, well, let me just. Have I fixed your problem today? Will you take a survey about my service? And we want them to say, oh, okay. But, Courtney, how much do we as adults wrestle with the things of God? How much do we wonder, God, why did this happen? God, I don't understand this in my life. And we. It takes us a while sometimes to come to peace with it, to understand, for the Lord to teach us, to show us. And sometimes we just ask those questions over and over again. And let's talk about the kiddo that does that. That just. It's. You tell them those things that you just. So beautifully said, Courtney. And they're still like, are you sure? Are you sure? How do you know? And they just seem like they're not mollified by that. They're still asking questions. Do you have any insight for that?
Courtney Doctor: Yeah, the more that you can actually open the Bible, like a physical, tangible copy of the Bible and point to a verse that talks about this, point them to places to say, see, look, this is actually what it says in the word of God. And then if they're like, but I don't even know if I believe in the Word of God, then talk about what the word of God is. That it is like God's revelation to his people because he wants us to know Him, Him. And so. So it really can lead to even these.
Leading children with humility and vulnerability is crucial, Courtney says
These greater conversations. But even in that, you're saying, look, this is where I turn to for my source of truth, you know, that it's not just my own thoughts. It's not just what the latest Instagram scroll says. I'm actually turning to the Word of God, because that's going to be, the rock on which. On which we stand. And then I think you were kind of alluding to this, but leading with, with humility and vulnerability of saying, yeah, I doubt this sometimes too, I struggle to believe it. Because if we give kids the impression that once they reach a certain age, they're not going to struggle with those things. They're not going to struggle with these big questions. They're not going to struggle with, you know, doubting that, that just because the word of God says it's true, that it is, then, then when they get there and they find out that, oh, you still do have big questions and you still do wrestle with believing even the very basic tenets of our faith, that God is love and that he loves us, it's so hard to believe. And if we're leading with transparency and vulnerability that we still struggle with that too, and what we do with our struggles, then when they get there, they're not going to be dismayed by that. It's going to say, oh, yeah, my mom struggled with this. This was, My grandmother struggled with this. And this is what they did. They turned to the Lord in prayer, they turned to trusted friends, they opened the Bible. And so I think leading, leading our children with that humility and, and vulnerability is just crucial.
Dr. Jessica Peck: You know, there are certain parenting and grandparenting phrases that are passed down in generational handbooks that if we look back at some of them are maybe well intentioned but maybe not helpful. Some of them are just not true. Like, that gum will stay in your stomach for seven years, you know, and also, that's actually not true. I know. I, I'm so sorry. Now I, I feel like all these people are going to be calling their parents saying, wait, that is not true. Because we're saying that as parents because we want them not to swallow their gum.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Right?
Dr. Jessica Peck: Like, so we sometimes say exaggerations or we say things that aren't helpful, like, what were you thinking? Or, you know, oh, that, that's dumb. You don't need to worry about that. Is there anything else that you have seen that maybe we should just throw out of the, the generational handbook of parenting and say, you know what? I think we, we can do better than that. Is there anything that you think we should throw out?
Courtney Doctor: Great question. All I can think of while you were talking. Be careful or your face is going to freeze that way.
Dr. Jessica Peck: I think that that's exactly.
Courtney Doctor: Yes. Not exactly a theological, not very deep theologically, but, yeah, that was definitely.
Dr. Jessica Peck: I don't know.
Courtney Doctor: I'll circle back if I come up with one that I can think of. Especially in, in the realm of what we're talking about with the nature and character of. Of God. sometimes I think when we say
Dr. Jessica Peck: those kinds of things, just like you just said, Courtney, you know, don't. Your face will freeze that way. I mean, kids are very literal, and it's hard, I think, sometimes differentiate. Like, okay, they told me that it's not true, but they also told me that God loves me. But that is true. And I think it's really important to be really honest with our kids. Just like you were talking about being vulnerable and transparent and saying, yeah, I worry about that too. And I wonder about that too. Here's how I'm coping with that. Here's how I'm turning to God for wisdom. Here's how I'm m. Seeking support. you know, here's. Here's how I'm trusting the Lord with that every day. I think those things are honest. And sometimes we can be honest and just say, I think Corrie 10. Boom. just shared a story about her father saying this. Like, he. She wanted to know something, and he said, this is like a suitcase that is too heavy for you to carry. I'm going to carry it for you until you can know that. And I think it's just so important to be honest. But sometimes we're. We're afraid of that because we think, oh, I don't. I don't want them to know that. But I love how you explained, you know, if we tell them, like, oh, one day those fears are magically going to disappear and they start thinking when they don't, what's wrong with me? My faith must not be as strong as theirs. That's what I mean.
Courtney Doctor: I think there's a tension too, in, you know, this overhyping our kids, like, with their own virtue. And, you know, we think we're affirming them. Right. So I think maybe that's one of the categories that you're talking about. Because, like, if. If you're a parent or grandparent, that your own proclivity is towards not giving affirmation. Well, we absolutely have to be affirming our children and grandchildren. I mean, there is so much. Right. They need that. They need that encouragement. They need that sense of self. They need to understand their. Their worth and how incredible their value is before the living God. But I think a lot of parents tend to focus more on the hype of, like, you're, amazing, you're. And it's sort of all like, within yourself. and. And that is not going to hold. Right? That's I mean, they're going to get to the realization one day that, oh, you know what? I'm really not as amazing as my mom thought I was.
Dr. Jessica Peck: No one really wants to hear me play the recorder, actually.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Anchoring children's worth is very important
Courtney Doctor: I know. Oh, I was so good at the recorder, though. I was so good I could, I could do both hands. I mean, yeah, but nobody even wanted to hear it then. but yes. And so this, this tension between, I think that's maybe one thing that, that through the years, maybe even generationally there, you can sort of say, oh, one generation might have landed on the side of not affirming enough. And maybe there's a generation that lands on the side of thinking that the best thing they can do for their kids is just hype them up all the time. And I say there's, there's wisdom as a wisdom issue, right? To know, where to locate that child's value and that child's worth because it's there and it's beautiful. But man, we can anchor it in the wrong things.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Courtney, I hope that people are really paying attention and listening to what you're saying because you're giving some amazing perspective in that. we're always worried about this and we're worried about our kids self esteem and do they feel good enough about themselves and do we hype them up or do we bring them down, you know, when we need to? But anchoring their worth and who m God is and God's character is never changing and we never have to worry about that. I really do believe that that is the antidote to a lot of the comparison pressures that are being put on kids today. Living constantly online and in the light of video and social media and all of those things. It's so very important. Listen, when we come back, we will talk more about how do we teach our kids this biblical truth by living it out ourselves. I'll be right back with more from Courtney Doctor We'll see you right on the other side of this break. When you hear this. This is American Family News. You know, what follows is the truth. Your news from a Christian perspective. Hundreds of, teachers are going to have to walk into that school building and they are forced to swallow political ideology that in many cases violates their very faith and conscience.
Jeff Chamblee: If you miss it at the top of the hour, American Family News podcasts are available at afn.net and sign up for our daily news brief at afn.net Abraham Hamilton III the American Family Association's mission is to inform, equip and activate individuals to strengthen the moral foundations of our culture. Our goal is to be a leading organization in biblical worldview training for cultural transformation. We stand on the biblical truth that all human beings, including the unborn, are created in the image of God, and are endowed by him with the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Thank you for standing with the American Family Association.
God Story by Anne Wilson: I've gone where the hopeless go the dead end of a broken road and I've learned there's a place so low you can't see a way out Been stuck in a ditch so deep Thought it might be the end of me but, I'm still here and there could only be one way How My life is a God story. We got to tell the world what he's done for me Miracles are miracles that only he could do. I'm, true. Now we're all only one prayer away from a testimony. There's only one getting all the glory My whole life is a God story.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Welcome back, friends. That is God Story by Anne Wilson. And that is what we want for our kids, isn't it? We want them to grow up and say, my life is a God story. And today we're talking about a children's story that was authored by Courtney Doctor and her grandson Bo, who is now nine years old. It's called Andy and His Big Question. Helping Kids find Security in God's love. That we love God because He loved us first. And I really find such encouragement. And going back to these basic theological truths, there is no, no magic parenting hack or class that you have to take or communication skill. Those things are all helpful. They definitely are helpful. But it is really meaningless without the under anchoring truth of God's love. And when our kids have questions about their faith, know that that is developmentally normal. When they're worried about things, if they're watching images of, the 911 anniversary happening, don't shame their worries. Like, don't be scared doesn't really teach a kid what to do with their fear. We also don't want to be catastrophic with them and just be like, oh, yes, the world is so terrible because they borrow our emotional cues. And if we're responding to every frightening headline with panic or worry, then they're learning from us that we've got to be on alert. The world is dangerous and you can't let your guard down. And we shouldn't promise what we can't promise. We can't honestly tell children that nothing bad will ever happen. We can't say that, but we can teach a greater truth. We don't know what the future holds, but we know who holds the future. And he will never leave us or forsake us. And he is trustworthy. Reassurance is good, but backing it up with prayer and scripture is a superpower like you cannot believe. It really helps when we name what they're feeling and then we connect that to prayers with what God has told us in his word to do. And that can be, really just simple thing. You think, is that it? That honestly is a lot of what is important because we aren't raising kids who are never going to be afraid, but we are raising kids we can teach how to respond to fear. And that takes over and over and over. Conversations, rhythms, just answering question after question after question and telling them as theological truth.
Courtney, what are some simple family practices that families can do?
And so, so tell me, Courtney, what are some simple family practices that. That families can do? One of the them is reading a children's book. So reading this, Andy and his big question, reading that every night before bed. Great way to go. What are some other things that you have found that are helpful in reinforcing that security?
Courtney Doctor: Well, I think honestly we hold off on opening the actual Bible for far too long with our kids. And we, we keep them in children's Bibles and then little devotionals. And then they get in high school and we're doing, you know what, Chubby bunny with marshmallows at youth group. But they're in high school and they're in class and they're doing physics and they're reading the classics and they're doing calculus. And it's like there is a disconnect, right? They actually are able to do hard things and they actually are able to understand the word of God I think at a much younger age than. Than we give them credit for. And so, so just opening the Bible and reading it out lo. showing them the rhythm of that. It's, it's, you know, we don't go to the Bible every day just so we get some little inspirational pick me up. We go to the Bible so that the word of Christ will dwell in us richly. And so that's a lifetime. So you're showing them and you're. You're actually starting the process. you know, I can see in my friends, those who were raised in homes where the Bible was read, it is, it just dwells in them. It comes out of them. It's. It's how they think. It's a. It's a really beautiful thing. And so, so, so just read the Bible. I think this idea of opening a safe space for hard questions, you know, I can point to so many things that we did wrong raising our four children, but one of them, yes. I mean, it's, you know, so many things. but by God's grace, you know, there were a few things that, that, worked out. And one of those was my husband did one on one breakfast with different children, different days of the week. And, and so they could pick what they wanted. It was just the two of them. They would eat together, talk, and then he would pray for them. But during that time, it was, there was, it was a no discipline zone. There was no correction, there was really no opinions. It was just listen. And I think that that sort of established this groundwork of, you know, you actually can bring these thoughts and these questions to us. And it starts young, in, in that teaching them that you're going to be a safe place for them to bring all of their questions. and then what we talked about earlier, you know, modeling if you don't know the answer, what to do with that and where to go and that. That's okay.
Kids have a radar for authenticity and they know when there's discrepancy
Dr. Jessica Peck: Yeah, let's talk about that a little bit more because I think that's so important because faith is so much more caught than it's taught. I mean, we really, it's important, important to sit down and to read scripture with them, to teach them. But kids are such, they have such a radar for authenticity and they know when there's a discrepancy between what you're saying and how you're living. And so what have you learned, Courtney, and your wisdom now as a cc, as a, as a grandmother and, and as a mother and, and how we model that out to our kids because they're watching us even when we don't think that they are. But that's a powerful opportunity for us to live out our own faith journey in front of them.
Courtney Doctor: Oh, congruency. It matters. I'm actually writing a chapter in a book on this right now. And so I've been thinking a lot about it. This idea, of, you know, we, we say your walk didn't match your talk. And it's, it's disorienting when, when that happens, when there's somebody that professes Christ and then they live counter. And, you know, maybe we don't find that out until later. I mean, it just, it rocks us because we know in our souls that a person should be more and more congruent and that that's actually what sanctification does it? Actually, it starts aligning our life more and more with the beautiful truths of the gospel that. That we believe. And so there's a difference between hypocrisy, which is willfully living an incongruent life, and spiritual immaturity, which is the anecdote for that is to grow into Christ likeness, to grow in your maturity in. In faith. And so our kids should be watching our sanctification. They. They should see that over time, we are looking more like Christ. And if they're not going to see that, if we're not living vulnerably in front of them. but I think it's important to also help them understand the difference between these two things. I had a. My youngest daughter came to me in school. She was kind of frustrated with, Some people at church had come up and just said some really, really nice things about me. You know, your mom, blah, blah, blah. And we got home and she was like, they just don't really know you. I said, I know, right? I was like. And I said, okay, let's talk about this. Because, you know, I said, okay, you. You know me better than they know me, so you need to tell me if this is true or not. But the reality is there's a difference between you seeing all of who I am. You're right. They don't come over when I, you know, they're not there when I drop the plate on the floor, or when I snap at my husband and then have to apologize, or. Or when I fail you in some way. They're not there for that. But am I trying to project an image that's not true, or did they just not know the depth of who I am? And. And I invited her to speak into that because if she sees that I'm projecting an image that's not actually true and I'm doing it intentionally, then that's hypocrisy. And she can call me out, but, you know, by God's grace, she said, no, I think I just. I just get to see more of you. And I was like, yeah, and the more you see, the uglier it is. Like, that's the reality of who we are, right? I mean, that's. That's for all of us. I have a good friend who has written a lot of books and teaches a lot. And she's like, I'm a lot better from a distance. I just love that. Like, aren't we all? Are we all. I mean, those who know us best are going to see the good, the bad. And the ugly. But may they see us longing for participating in and progressing in sanctification and in Christ likeness.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Courtney, my. My jaw is pretty much on the floor. Like, I am floored by what you just said for so many reasons. First of all, the fact that you would have the humility to share that.
Dr. Jessica Peck: That.
Dr. Jessica Peck: That anecdote. I think a lot of times when, you know, our kids call us out, we're like, oh, shame, secrecy. I hope nobody ever finds that out because we are trying to project an image. But inviting our kids, and the fact that you had the courage to invite her to speak into that. I will tell you honestly, Courtney, I've done the same thing. And it has been some of the most humbling moments of my life. Now sometimes, you know, it's a time for me, exactly like you did, to teach some truths. And we've had to do that, you know, we. With experiencing. I grew up with a lot of generational dysfunction and trauma, and there's a lot of things, you know, that we've had to work through. And I've had to learn about myself and relearn communication and anxious thought patterns. And so sometimes, you know, when I tell my kids, like, I wish. I wish you didn't have to see this. I wish this was not your experience. You know, I wish that I could somehow be magically, like, a hundred yards ahead of where I am. But this is the savings, grace that is provided to us by Jesus. And I am always going to find my way crawling back to the foot of the cross and just surrendering myself to God's love and grace, because that is my only hope in this world. I think that that's something that maybe when we were talking about other generations and past generations, maybe that would have even been perceived as somewhat disrespectful. But I think we can teach our kids to speak truth to us in a way that is respectful, and that's where they come to their questions. And sometimes it may uncover some. I loved the. What was the word you use? Congruence. Some incongruence that we have between what we do and what we say, and. And it just all comes back to those foundational, timeless truths. And I know that you've woven so many of those through the book, Courtney, but what is the reminder? Give us a cheat sheet. Give us a homework. Give us an encouragement of.
His Love will not waver because it's based on his character, not yours
What are those timeless truths that we need to constantly reiterate? Great.
Courtney Doctor: M. That God's love is so vast and so good and so strong, like his love will hold you. His Love will not waver because it's based on his character, not yours. And so that, to me is the game changer, right? Like, if it was based on my character, it would waver all the time. but it's not. It's based on his character. And so I think that is one of the foundational truths. I think, think that, the fact that we love because he first loved us, that there is a good and right response to this love. And it's not just, you know, go live however we want, but it's, it's drawn near to him and, and, and cultivate our own hearts. To cultivate the affection of our own hearts towards him. yeah, I think that there's just. It striving cease, right? Striving cease when we really understand how loved we actually are.
Dr. Jessica Peck: I think that is a truth that every kid needs to just have emblazoned on their hearts because the countercultural forces are like tsunami level right now. And it can be really overwhelming and very fear inducing for parents. But if we build our house on the foundation of the rock of the truth of the gospel of Jesus Christ, Christ. Then I had a guest not too long ago who was talking about how, you know, the rains came and the winds blew. And it's not like, oh, a gentle, you know, rolling rain in a meadow. It's like, oh, some of the images like we're seeing from, you know, the people who are impacted in Hawaii by the recent hurricanes. And, my prayers are definitely with them because I know what it's like to go through a hurricane. But it's like, okay, like, the things can be battered, things can be messed up, but the foundation still stands knowing that we can teach our kids that it's okay to bring your questions to God. God is big enough to handle your questions, to handle your fears. Your failures are not going to surprise him, make you stop loving him. You don't have to know everything because God already knows everything. And God and the joy of the Lord is our strength. And you know, I was. I was talking actually to my son the other day, and we were talking about a tough situation, and that's what he reminded me of. The joy of the Lord is our strength. And that was really convicting to me.
Courtney, what do you hope listeners take away from Andy and his Big Question?
Well, Courtney, it's been such a pleasure talking to you and our time together has come to an end. But I'd love to give you just a minute to give a last word of encouragement to our listeners what you hope that they will walk away from in reading Andy and his Big question.
Courtney Doctor: Oh, I. First of all, it's just been a joy to be here. But I would say that when you. You feel those winds and those waves and those tsunamis coming at you or at your children, to remind yourself that the love of God is the tsunami.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Right.
Courtney Doctor: It is the thing that should just overwhelm us and, and consume us and. And it's in that that we actually find our hope. We find our security, we find our.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Our being.
Courtney Doctor: We find. Yeah. If we're feeling tossed about, it's the place that stabilizes us. And then, like you said, it strengthens us and it grows us.
Dr. Jessica Peck: It does. And Jesus even slept in the storm. And you know, Courtney, I thank you so much for bringing us back to the heart of discipleship. Because we're not just trying to give our kids all the right answers for every possible question that they'll encounter. We are trying to give them a theological foundation that is strong enough to stand on even when the storms get louder, when the questions get bigger. Because all of our kids are going to encounter deep, you know, disappointment and difficulty in life. But God, But God, honestly, listen to your kids questions. Open God's word. Pray together. Remember that God loved us first. And as you do, I pray that the Lord will bless you and keep you and make his face to shine upon you, be gracious to you and give you peace. I'll see you tomorrow.
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Jeff Chamblee: Hello and welcome to the Dr. Nurse Mama show prescribing Hope for healthy families here Family radio. Here's your host, professor, pediatric nurse practitioner and mom of four, Dr. Jessica Peck.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Well hey there friends. Welcome to my favorite time of day getting to spend time with you prescribing Hope for healthy families. And in a week like this week. We talked yesterday about the heaviness of grief and I know that just like me, many of you are watching the news and anticipating the 25th anniversary of 911 that's coming up this Friday, which just seems unbelievable. And in a world that seems to thrive on the doom scroll, it can be easy to lose heart and also to ask big questions like why did this happen? And questions that there really is no good Answer for this side of heaven. And children are asking those questions too. They always have, they always will. And sometimes they're really wonderfully ordinary questions. I miss those days with my kids of, asking a million times, why is the sky blue? Why do dogs bark? Why do I have to go to bed when the sun is still out, thank daylight savings time? But then there are the questions that really stop us in our tracks as parents and grandparents. Does God really love me? Am I enough? And what is enough? What if I mess up? What if something bad happens to me or my family? What if I'm not smart enough or strong enough or kind enough or brave enough? And sometimes children don't even know how to articulate these questions that are swirling around in their hearts. But we see it manifested in their behavior. They can't say it with words, but we see it's misbehaving at bedtime, it's fears about going to school, it's perfectionistic behaviors, it's needing constant reassurance that everything's okay, that the world is safe, that they are loved. It's difficulty separating from their parents or just repeatedly asking, are you sure everything's going to be okay? That's a tough question to answer, because we can't tell them that everything's going to be okay, because we don't know that, but we can tell them. I don't know what the future holds, but I know who holds the future, and he is trustworthy. And the thing is, if we're really honest, these aren't just children's questions. They are human questions, because adults ask them too. Am I enough? Am I doing enough? Am I lovable? What happens when I fail? What happens when life feels out of control? Am I enough at my job and my marriage and my parenting and in my community, and we are raising children in a culture that can give them an enormous amount to worry about. Because if they're worried about something, if they're discontent with something, then there is a marketable solution most of the time. And kids and we, as adults, are encountering information and images and conflict and uncertainty and tragedy, comparison and expectation. But here's the thing about kids today. They are encountering that now at earlier and earlier stages. It's becoming very, very difficult to protect them like we once could. So how do we help our kids become resil, resilient without just telling them, don't worry. How do we reassure them without constantly feeding that need for reassurance? And as Christian parents and grandparents, how do we move beyond just saying God loves you, which is such an important thing to say. We need to say that over and over to help them really walk that out in their faith, understand it, believe it, really soak it in in their daily life experience the security of that truth from the top of their head to the bottom of their feet. And that's a, where a beautiful no children's book comes in.
Courtney Doctor wrote a children's book called Andy and His Big Question
We are talking today to Courtney Doctor now. She wrote this book called Andy and His Big Question, a story about how God's love always comes first. And here's the thing that caught my eye about this, that I think is just one of the most charming, sweetest things. And I have already told Courtney I think she's going to inspire grandparents out there today to do this with their own grandkids. She wrote this with her grandson Bo who was 9 at the time. Isn't that precious? And she. It takes children to Andy's grandparents farm and they see a, simple scripture about loving God with all your heart, soul and mind. You probably know that scripture and your strength. And it triggers, though, a surprisingly big worry. What if I'm not kind enough? I'm not smart enough, I'm not strong enough. And his grandmother, God bless all the grandmothers out there, helps him discover a foundational theological truth. God's love is not something we earned because he first loved us. He first loved us. And that gives us so much to talk about. Not just how a children's book, can help us respond, but how we respond in our own lives and how a children's book can help us do that when the children in our lives are worried or afraid or asking questions that are bigger than they seem.
Courtney Doctor is a Bible teacher, author and grandmother of five
So, I'm, I'm so pleased to introduce to you Courtney Doctor She wears a lot of hats. She's a Bible teacher, an author, a grandmother of five. She's a director of women's initiatives for the Gospel Coalition. She's co host of the Deep Dish podcast podcast. She holds an M Div. A Masters in Divinity from Covenant Theological Seminary. She's written several books and Bible studies. And we do want to give a shout out to her co author and grandson Bo who was nine when this book was created. Bo loves Legos and drawing and Star wars and playing with friends. And he hopes this book helps other people understand the never ending love of God. Courtney, so happy to have you here. Thank you so much for this just refreshing bit of encouragement that you've already brought our way.
Courtney Doctor: Oh, my word, what a joy to be here and to talk about this. So thanks for having me on. This is such a privilege.
Courtney: Tell us about how you came to know the Lord
Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, Courtney, let's start with you. And, you know, you are a grandmother now, but you were once a little girl. You were once a little kid, like we all were, with questions. Tell us about how you came to know the Lord and how he has worked in your life to call you to ministry, bringing you to the joy of ministering with your grandson. I just. I cannot love that enough.
Courtney Doctor: I can't either. It's just like the pinnacle of what the Lord's called me to do, to be able to do this. I was raised in a. In a moral home, in a home where we went to church a lot of Sundays. But I wouldn't say it was a home of deep faith. Praise, God. Now, my parents, my brother, they all love Jesus, but that wasn't necessarily part of my upbringing. I was invited to youth group, and I heard the gospel, and I responded. And then. And I look at that time as when the Lord brought me to faith. but we then stopped going to church. There was no discipleship. It's one reason I'm a huge advocate for discipleship in the local church. and so I really just spent eight years not looking at all like I had made a profession of faith. but God is faithful to finish what he starts. And so in my early 20s, he started working in my heart and mind and calling me back to himself and putting me in really good churches. And, Yeah, and so it's been a. It's. It's been a journey with him since then of just loving his word and learning to walk in his ways.
Dr. Jessica Peck: one of the greatest joys I think I have it in hosting this program is hearing so many incredible testimonies. And praise God for the family who invited you to the youth group so that if that's your sign, look around at your neighbors, at your relatives, at your friends. Who do you need to be inviting to church? That is so encouraging to me and Courtney, One of the things that I love about this children's book that you wrote with Bo that's so precious. I'll. I'll say that the whole time because I do think it's so precious. I love that this story really begins with something really familiar to Christian families, because in our hearts, as parents, as grandparents, as other invested adults, we want to teach our children biblical truth. But sometimes when kids hear those things, they immediately turn it into a question about their own adequacy. And Andy hears that question like, we're supposed to love God with all our heart, soul, mind and strength. And instead of thinking, oh, that's beautiful, I'll do that. He's like, what if I can't do that? That sounds absolutely, really hard. So tell us about starting there and what inspired you to start with that really relatable question and what we can learn from. About. About it for the real children in our lives.
Courtney Doctor: Ah. it's a great question. So the publisher asked me, they said if. If you could write any message to your grandchildren, what would it be? And it really didn't take me long to think about that because there's this tension in my own heart right about. I so desperately want to love God with all my heart, mind, soul and strength. And I know that I don't. I see it in my own heart. I see that I love myself more than I should, more than I love others, more than I love God. And so I thought, I want them to understand. It's that. That tension of we're called to do something. I mean, it's called the greatest commandment. So there's a. There's something in that to obey. And yet when go to obey it, we realize we can't. And so I really wanted my grandchildren to understand that there is safety and security and a strong foundation that alleviates striving. When we understand, oh, you know, it's not actually our love for him that secures God's love. It's his love for us that then compels and prompts our love for Him. And so that changes everything, right? and actually, if you read the book, it gets to the end. And I love that we ended it. It wasn't there in the beginning, but it was a later edit. I love that it ends with. And then that made Andy love God even more. So there's this kind of full circle of like, I want to love God. I don't. What do I do? And then realizing how much God loves you, and then that compels Andy to love God more.
Dr. Jessica Peck: This is. It is such a foundational truth that comes from the book of First John 4:19. And it is a foundational message that I think we forget because we do tend to tell our kids, God loves you. God loves you. God loves you. But tell us more, Courtney, about why it's so important for us to tell our kids and make sure they know that he loved us first.
Courtney Doctor: Well, because then that changes the whole script, right? he. He chose us. He loved us like he. He set his favor on us. It tells us this over and over in the Old Testament with Israel, like, it was nothing that they did. It was just that He. He chose to love them. And so there's this. There's this joy and this safety and the fact that God set His sights on me long before I set my sights on Him. And so when you understand the order, there is just this. There's a resting that comes like, oh, if. If it wasn't my obedience that secured the love of God, if it wasn't my affection for him or my curiosity about him that. That turned his eyes towards me, but if he set his eyes on me first, then I can just receive it. And then it starts informing and shaping how I'm going to respond to that. That I am going to respond, oh, now I want to actually obey this really good and wise and loving God. And now I want to love him in the way that I've been loved. And so the steadfast love of God, it is the foundation that we stand on, for the entirety of our Christian lives and that we will one day realize fully when we see him face to face. But here it is the thing that we have to remind ourselves over and over again. Not just that it's true, but that it came first.
Bo and I wrote a book about being enough. And that is a truth that our kids need to hear
Dr. Jessica Peck: It's so good. You're reminding me of one of my favorite hymns, the Love of God. You know, if the sea were full of ink and the. And the sky was a. Ah, you know, a parchment made, and every stalk on earth a quill, and every man ascribed by trade we could not write the love of God above. And I've been listening, to. I've been listening to this one particular song on repeat. Honestly, Courtney, by Phil Wickham. And, it's the Jesus way and it talks. One of the lyrics has really caught my heart, saying, he wore my sin, I'll gladly wear his name. And thinking that is such a wild exchange. Like he knew. And yet while we were still sinners, God the Christ loved us and he died for us. And that is a truth that our kids need to hear because they are being bombarded by messages that they're not enough that you always have to earn approval. You have to image, craft. It's all about self help and, and what we can do to earn God's love, which there's nothing that we can do. And I'm gonna bet, Courtney, that working with Bo, you know, I think we continually underestimate what kids think and the. The complexity of what they. How deeply they can think about things and how God can use them really to speak such incredible truths. And I'm gonna bet that Bo probably surprised you in some way with the depth of his wisdom or insight. Is that. Did I get it right or wrong?
Courtney Doctor: Oh, for sure. both, you know, theologically and practically and even in the writing. He, one time I was reading an iteration of the manuscript to him because we would just go back and forth on these, and he said, I said something about the tree, and he stopped me and he said, Cece, he said, I think we should say the climbing tree. It's more specific. And I thought, well, you are write about that, you little writer, you. and so that ended up prompting one of the illustrations in the book. But yeah, he. And then. And then the night before we turned in the manuscript for the, you know, the. When we turned it in, it was the. The last iteration of it before we got edits back. He, he prayed. We were praying for the book, and he prayed that it would help children all over the world understand the love of God.
Dr. Jessica Peck: And I thought out of the mouth, right out of the mouths of babes
Courtney Doctor: and the necessity of the message.
Dr. Jessica Peck: That's right. I'm gonna hold you right there, Courtney. We're already at our first break, but I want to hear more. I want to hear more about what Bo thought about this message of being enough. And when we come back, we're really going to talk about what happens when worry takes over, because I know there's a lot of you out there who have, some worriers in your house and you might wonder, what can you do for them? We'll give you some help and some hope. Right on the other side of this break with Courtney, Dr. Andy and his big question. See you right after this break.
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Any More by CAIN: The same old guilt and regret you heard a thousand times before. After the choices you made, you waiting for me to say I couldn't love you anymore? The enemy has lied to you. But listen to me, here's the truth. I couldn't love you any More than I do right now. There's no way I wouldn't go to get to you, my child. Take A look at the cross Then you'll know if it's your. I couldn't love you I couldn't love you Anymore Anymore Anymore than I do right now Anymore, anymore Welcome back, friends.
Dr. Jessica Peck: That is any more by Cain. This is such an important message that we need to be giving to the children in our lives, and not just the children, but all of our loved ones. That God cannot love you any more than he does right now. There is nothing that we do to earn his love. It is a free gift. And I'm talking today to Courtney Doctor about that, who wrote a, really charming children's book called Andy and His Big Question, a story about how God's love always comes first. And kids do ask these big questions. And one of the big questions they ask is, does God really love me? Did he really make me on purpose? And one thing that I want to make sure that we all agree on together is that a question from a child like that does not need to send us into a panic over a potential crisis of faith. It is an invitation for an opportunity to discipleship. And that's what kids need more than anything else. They have a plethora overload of information coming their way, but they have a real scarcity of wisdom, and we can lean in and give them that kind of biblical truth and wisdom. So when a child asks, does God really love me? You don't have to panic. You can just slow down and listen and be curious and say, what made you wonder about that? Why aren't you thinking that? What do you know about God and how he feels about you? And what scriptures do you know? Ask them questions and then help connect their questions to the truth of scripture. Because kids don't need adults in their life who are frightened to death by their questions. They need adults who are willing to wonder with them, say, yeah, I don't know. That's a good question. Let's look at scripture. Let's look back at the character of God. Let's seek some wise biblical counsel on this. And that becomes really especially important when the question underneath that question is just absolutely filled with fear. And because sometimes does God love me? Is really asking, am I safe? Like, what? What is going to happen in the world? And sometimes what if I fail? Is really asking, will God still love me even if I mess up, even if I can't do this? And that's what we're talking about.
Courtney says children are willing to ask big questions about God
So, Courtney, right before the break, you were just talking about Bo, and I want to sure that we leave some more space to talk about that about his insight and really thinking about a nine year old, wondering, am I enough? Anything else that you'd like to share about what you learned from bo? Because I'm sure that you did.
Courtney Doctor: Yeah, just even being reminded again that, that children have these really big questions and there's something beautiful about the way children are just willing to ask them. There's no, there's no shame in asking them. I think a lot of times as adults we start thinking, you know, I should know this, I should know the answer to this, or you know, surely I've been told this at some point. And so even to your point of, there's usually a question underneath the question, there's usually something going on that's prompting the question. And so just to be reminded to see the wonder and the curiosity and the freedom to ask really big questions, I learned again how important that is and I want that to be true in my life. and it's what I saw in
Dr. Jessica Peck: VO and this theological truth that you have woven through the book is so important. You know, that God loved you first and that tells us about the character of God and then that teaches us to trust God because his character is trustworthy even when we don't understand his plan. And I think especially in today's day and age, Courtney, I, mean, I know I've seen it with my kids. They're exposed to so much worry inducing stuff and even if I try my best to protect them, you know, unless they live under a rock, like they're going to have friends who say something, neighbors. I mean, I've even had one of my kids, you know, had a really, really difficult time when I was just standing in the grocery store line and I was trying to buy groceries and they were just standing there bored, reading the headlines on the tabloids that were in the grocery store checkout. And this caused a lot of fear. I mean they can be a exposed. And sometimes I think our instincts as adults is either to just over reassure and just kind of blow them off, like thinking, I mean, with a good intention but just like, everything's fine, don't worry, I'm fine, you're fine, I'm fine, we're here. Or you just immediately try to solve the problem. But how do we sit with them in that uncertainty? Because kids are watching the images of what happened. They're learning in school this week about what 9, 11 happened. They know about violence that happens in their schools and they're afraid of that. We can't really tell them, oh, don't worry nothing like that will ever happen. How do we sit in that uncertainty while also reassuring them about the trustworthiness of God?
Courtney Doctor: Well, I think it's exactly what you're saying is that we point them back to the character of God. That is our, that is our sure foundation. That's an anchor for our souls. And I think so often we either do what you said, which is just kind of dismiss it, because we're a little bit uncomfortable with it, because maybe we haven't wrestled with it. And I think there is a lot to that that, you know, maybe the. Maybe what we need to even back up and say is we need to be doing some of our own heart work in this. We need to be sitting with some of our big questions, and we need to be letting the word of God wash over us and, and, and renew our minds and teach us new things about who God is and the way he works. And so, so I think there's like, personal work that has to be done. But then when the questions come to navigate your own heart and even your own anxiety in the questions, even anxiety over not knowing the answer because what you just said is so true, how do we just say, you know what? I don't actually know the answer to that. What a beautiful thing to model that you don't have to have all the answers. And then you could say, let's go seek wise counsel. What a beautiful thing to model. We have other saints who we can go to that can help us in this. And then to affirm, I'm so glad you asked this question. and then to, I think so often, especially in a question like this is, does God really love me? The tendency is to tell the child all of the lovable things about them. And the reality is that's not going to hold. because I know my own heart and soul too much. And you know what? So do they. They actually know. And that's what you see Andy wrestling with in the book is like, yeah, I'm kind of. Yeah, I'm smart, strong and kind sometimes, but sometimes I'm not. And we actually know these things to be true about ourselves. And so if we're anchoring, like the love of God in the character of the child, that's not going to be a sure foundation. It's not that the child's so lovable, no matter how lovable we think they are, it's that God is so loving. And so we anchor their understanding, we anchor their hope, we anchor the truth of, of the answer to their question in the nature and character of God, that. That he is love itself and that. That love. The Bible describes it, it's steadfast. It never changes, it never wavers. And so we start extolling the virtues of God because that's actually where our heart will find rest.
Dr. Jessica Peck: These are such important truths. And I think we are just so tempted now to try to fix their circumstances or fix their problems or. Or stop the uncomfortable emotion, because it's really hard to admit, Courtney. But as parents and grandparents, we want that immediate gratification. We want. When our kids come to us with questions, we want to be the little, you know, helper on the Internet that's like, oh, what's your order number? Oh, have you tried this? Have you tried this? Okay, all right, well, let me just. Have I fixed your problem today? Will you take a survey about my service? And we want them to say, oh, okay. But, Courtney, how much do we as adults wrestle with the things of God? How much do we wonder, God, why did this happen? God, I don't understand this in my life. And we. It takes us a while sometimes to come to peace with it, to understand, for the Lord to teach us, to show us. And sometimes we just ask those questions over and over again. And let's talk about the kiddo that does that. That just. It's. You tell them those things that you just. So beautifully said, Courtney. And they're still like, are you sure? Are you sure? How do you know? And they just seem like they're not mollified by that. They're still asking questions. Do you have any insight for that?
Courtney Doctor: Yeah, the more that you can actually open the Bible, like a physical, tangible copy of the Bible and point to a verse that talks about this, point them to places to say, see, look, this is actually what it says in the word of God. And then if they're like, but I don't even know if I believe in the Word of God, then talk about what the word of God is. That it is like God's revelation to his people because he wants us to know Him, Him. And so. So it really can lead to even these.
Leading children with humility and vulnerability is crucial, Courtney says
These greater conversations. But even in that, you're saying, look, this is where I turn to for my source of truth, you know, that it's not just my own thoughts. It's not just what the latest Instagram scroll says. I'm actually turning to the Word of God, because that's going to be, the rock on which. On which we stand. And then I think you were kind of alluding to this, but leading with, with humility and vulnerability of saying, yeah, I doubt this sometimes too, I struggle to believe it. Because if we give kids the impression that once they reach a certain age, they're not going to struggle with those things. They're not going to struggle with these big questions. They're not going to struggle with, you know, doubting that, that just because the word of God says it's true, that it is, then, then when they get there and they find out that, oh, you still do have big questions and you still do wrestle with believing even the very basic tenets of our faith, that God is love and that he loves us, it's so hard to believe. And if we're leading with transparency and vulnerability that we still struggle with that too, and what we do with our struggles, then when they get there, they're not going to be dismayed by that. It's going to say, oh, yeah, my mom struggled with this. This was, My grandmother struggled with this. And this is what they did. They turned to the Lord in prayer, they turned to trusted friends, they opened the Bible. And so I think leading, leading our children with that humility and, and vulnerability is just crucial.
Dr. Jessica Peck: You know, there are certain parenting and grandparenting phrases that are passed down in generational handbooks that if we look back at some of them are maybe well intentioned but maybe not helpful. Some of them are just not true. Like, that gum will stay in your stomach for seven years, you know, and also, that's actually not true. I know. I, I'm so sorry. Now I, I feel like all these people are going to be calling their parents saying, wait, that is not true. Because we're saying that as parents because we want them not to swallow their gum.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Right?
Dr. Jessica Peck: Like, so we sometimes say exaggerations or we say things that aren't helpful, like, what were you thinking? Or, you know, oh, that, that's dumb. You don't need to worry about that. Is there anything else that you have seen that maybe we should just throw out of the, the generational handbook of parenting and say, you know what? I think we, we can do better than that. Is there anything that you think we should throw out?
Courtney Doctor: Great question. All I can think of while you were talking. Be careful or your face is going to freeze that way.
Dr. Jessica Peck: I think that that's exactly.
Courtney Doctor: Yes. Not exactly a theological, not very deep theologically, but, yeah, that was definitely.
Dr. Jessica Peck: I don't know.
Courtney Doctor: I'll circle back if I come up with one that I can think of. Especially in, in the realm of what we're talking about with the nature and character of. Of God. sometimes I think when we say
Dr. Jessica Peck: those kinds of things, just like you just said, Courtney, you know, don't. Your face will freeze that way. I mean, kids are very literal, and it's hard, I think, sometimes differentiate. Like, okay, they told me that it's not true, but they also told me that God loves me. But that is true. And I think it's really important to be really honest with our kids. Just like you were talking about being vulnerable and transparent and saying, yeah, I worry about that too. And I wonder about that too. Here's how I'm coping with that. Here's how I'm turning to God for wisdom. Here's how I'm m. Seeking support. you know, here's. Here's how I'm trusting the Lord with that every day. I think those things are honest. And sometimes we can be honest and just say, I think Corrie 10. Boom. just shared a story about her father saying this. Like, he. She wanted to know something, and he said, this is like a suitcase that is too heavy for you to carry. I'm going to carry it for you until you can know that. And I think it's just so important to be honest. But sometimes we're. We're afraid of that because we think, oh, I don't. I don't want them to know that. But I love how you explained, you know, if we tell them, like, oh, one day those fears are magically going to disappear and they start thinking when they don't, what's wrong with me? My faith must not be as strong as theirs. That's what I mean.
Courtney Doctor: I think there's a tension too, in, you know, this overhyping our kids, like, with their own virtue. And, you know, we think we're affirming them. Right. So I think maybe that's one of the categories that you're talking about. Because, like, if. If you're a parent or grandparent, that your own proclivity is towards not giving affirmation. Well, we absolutely have to be affirming our children and grandchildren. I mean, there is so much. Right. They need that. They need that encouragement. They need that sense of self. They need to understand their. Their worth and how incredible their value is before the living God. But I think a lot of parents tend to focus more on the hype of, like, you're, amazing, you're. And it's sort of all like, within yourself. and. And that is not going to hold. Right? That's I mean, they're going to get to the realization one day that, oh, you know what? I'm really not as amazing as my mom thought I was.
Dr. Jessica Peck: No one really wants to hear me play the recorder, actually.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Anchoring children's worth is very important
Courtney Doctor: I know. Oh, I was so good at the recorder, though. I was so good I could, I could do both hands. I mean, yeah, but nobody even wanted to hear it then. but yes. And so this, this tension between, I think that's maybe one thing that, that through the years, maybe even generationally there, you can sort of say, oh, one generation might have landed on the side of not affirming enough. And maybe there's a generation that lands on the side of thinking that the best thing they can do for their kids is just hype them up all the time. And I say there's, there's wisdom as a wisdom issue, right? To know, where to locate that child's value and that child's worth because it's there and it's beautiful. But man, we can anchor it in the wrong things.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Courtney, I hope that people are really paying attention and listening to what you're saying because you're giving some amazing perspective in that. we're always worried about this and we're worried about our kids self esteem and do they feel good enough about themselves and do we hype them up or do we bring them down, you know, when we need to? But anchoring their worth and who m God is and God's character is never changing and we never have to worry about that. I really do believe that that is the antidote to a lot of the comparison pressures that are being put on kids today. Living constantly online and in the light of video and social media and all of those things. It's so very important. Listen, when we come back, we will talk more about how do we teach our kids this biblical truth by living it out ourselves. I'll be right back with more from Courtney Doctor We'll see you right on the other side of this break. When you hear this. This is American Family News. You know, what follows is the truth. Your news from a Christian perspective. Hundreds of, teachers are going to have to walk into that school building and they are forced to swallow political ideology that in many cases violates their very faith and conscience.
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God Story by Anne Wilson: I've gone where the hopeless go the dead end of a broken road and I've learned there's a place so low you can't see a way out Been stuck in a ditch so deep Thought it might be the end of me but, I'm still here and there could only be one way How My life is a God story. We got to tell the world what he's done for me Miracles are miracles that only he could do. I'm, true. Now we're all only one prayer away from a testimony. There's only one getting all the glory My whole life is a God story.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Welcome back, friends. That is God Story by Anne Wilson. And that is what we want for our kids, isn't it? We want them to grow up and say, my life is a God story. And today we're talking about a children's story that was authored by Courtney Doctor and her grandson Bo, who is now nine years old. It's called Andy and His Big Question. Helping Kids find Security in God's love. That we love God because He loved us first. And I really find such encouragement. And going back to these basic theological truths, there is no, no magic parenting hack or class that you have to take or communication skill. Those things are all helpful. They definitely are helpful. But it is really meaningless without the under anchoring truth of God's love. And when our kids have questions about their faith, know that that is developmentally normal. When they're worried about things, if they're watching images of, the 911 anniversary happening, don't shame their worries. Like, don't be scared doesn't really teach a kid what to do with their fear. We also don't want to be catastrophic with them and just be like, oh, yes, the world is so terrible because they borrow our emotional cues. And if we're responding to every frightening headline with panic or worry, then they're learning from us that we've got to be on alert. The world is dangerous and you can't let your guard down. And we shouldn't promise what we can't promise. We can't honestly tell children that nothing bad will ever happen. We can't say that, but we can teach a greater truth. We don't know what the future holds, but we know who holds the future. And he will never leave us or forsake us. And he is trustworthy. Reassurance is good, but backing it up with prayer and scripture is a superpower like you cannot believe. It really helps when we name what they're feeling and then we connect that to prayers with what God has told us in his word to do. And that can be, really just simple thing. You think, is that it? That honestly is a lot of what is important because we aren't raising kids who are never going to be afraid, but we are raising kids we can teach how to respond to fear. And that takes over and over and over. Conversations, rhythms, just answering question after question after question and telling them as theological truth.
Courtney, what are some simple family practices that families can do?
And so, so tell me, Courtney, what are some simple family practices that. That families can do? One of the them is reading a children's book. So reading this, Andy and his big question, reading that every night before bed. Great way to go. What are some other things that you have found that are helpful in reinforcing that security?
Courtney Doctor: Well, I think honestly we hold off on opening the actual Bible for far too long with our kids. And we, we keep them in children's Bibles and then little devotionals. And then they get in high school and we're doing, you know what, Chubby bunny with marshmallows at youth group. But they're in high school and they're in class and they're doing physics and they're reading the classics and they're doing calculus. And it's like there is a disconnect, right? They actually are able to do hard things and they actually are able to understand the word of God I think at a much younger age than. Than we give them credit for. And so, so just opening the Bible and reading it out lo. showing them the rhythm of that. It's, it's, you know, we don't go to the Bible every day just so we get some little inspirational pick me up. We go to the Bible so that the word of Christ will dwell in us richly. And so that's a lifetime. So you're showing them and you're. You're actually starting the process. you know, I can see in my friends, those who were raised in homes where the Bible was read, it is, it just dwells in them. It comes out of them. It's. It's how they think. It's a. It's a really beautiful thing. And so, so, so just read the Bible. I think this idea of opening a safe space for hard questions, you know, I can point to so many things that we did wrong raising our four children, but one of them, yes. I mean, it's, you know, so many things. but by God's grace, you know, there were a few things that, that, worked out. And one of those was my husband did one on one breakfast with different children, different days of the week. And, and so they could pick what they wanted. It was just the two of them. They would eat together, talk, and then he would pray for them. But during that time, it was, there was, it was a no discipline zone. There was no correction, there was really no opinions. It was just listen. And I think that that sort of established this groundwork of, you know, you actually can bring these thoughts and these questions to us. And it starts young, in, in that teaching them that you're going to be a safe place for them to bring all of their questions. and then what we talked about earlier, you know, modeling if you don't know the answer, what to do with that and where to go and that. That's okay.
Kids have a radar for authenticity and they know when there's discrepancy
Dr. Jessica Peck: Yeah, let's talk about that a little bit more because I think that's so important because faith is so much more caught than it's taught. I mean, we really, it's important, important to sit down and to read scripture with them, to teach them. But kids are such, they have such a radar for authenticity and they know when there's a discrepancy between what you're saying and how you're living. And so what have you learned, Courtney, and your wisdom now as a cc, as a, as a grandmother and, and as a mother and, and how we model that out to our kids because they're watching us even when we don't think that they are. But that's a powerful opportunity for us to live out our own faith journey in front of them.
Courtney Doctor: Oh, congruency. It matters. I'm actually writing a chapter in a book on this right now. And so I've been thinking a lot about it. This idea, of, you know, we, we say your walk didn't match your talk. And it's, it's disorienting when, when that happens, when there's somebody that professes Christ and then they live counter. And, you know, maybe we don't find that out until later. I mean, it just, it rocks us because we know in our souls that a person should be more and more congruent and that that's actually what sanctification does it? Actually, it starts aligning our life more and more with the beautiful truths of the gospel that. That we believe. And so there's a difference between hypocrisy, which is willfully living an incongruent life, and spiritual immaturity, which is the anecdote for that is to grow into Christ likeness, to grow in your maturity in. In faith. And so our kids should be watching our sanctification. They. They should see that over time, we are looking more like Christ. And if they're not going to see that, if we're not living vulnerably in front of them. but I think it's important to also help them understand the difference between these two things. I had a. My youngest daughter came to me in school. She was kind of frustrated with, Some people at church had come up and just said some really, really nice things about me. You know, your mom, blah, blah, blah. And we got home and she was like, they just don't really know you. I said, I know, right? I was like. And I said, okay, let's talk about this. Because, you know, I said, okay, you. You know me better than they know me, so you need to tell me if this is true or not. But the reality is there's a difference between you seeing all of who I am. You're right. They don't come over when I, you know, they're not there when I drop the plate on the floor, or when I snap at my husband and then have to apologize, or. Or when I fail you in some way. They're not there for that. But am I trying to project an image that's not true, or did they just not know the depth of who I am? And. And I invited her to speak into that because if she sees that I'm projecting an image that's not actually true and I'm doing it intentionally, then that's hypocrisy. And she can call me out, but, you know, by God's grace, she said, no, I think I just. I just get to see more of you. And I was like, yeah, and the more you see, the uglier it is. Like, that's the reality of who we are, right? I mean, that's. That's for all of us. I have a good friend who has written a lot of books and teaches a lot. And she's like, I'm a lot better from a distance. I just love that. Like, aren't we all? Are we all. I mean, those who know us best are going to see the good, the bad. And the ugly. But may they see us longing for participating in and progressing in sanctification and in Christ likeness.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Courtney, my. My jaw is pretty much on the floor. Like, I am floored by what you just said for so many reasons. First of all, the fact that you would have the humility to share that.
Dr. Jessica Peck: That.
Dr. Jessica Peck: That anecdote. I think a lot of times when, you know, our kids call us out, we're like, oh, shame, secrecy. I hope nobody ever finds that out because we are trying to project an image. But inviting our kids, and the fact that you had the courage to invite her to speak into that. I will tell you honestly, Courtney, I've done the same thing. And it has been some of the most humbling moments of my life. Now sometimes, you know, it's a time for me, exactly like you did, to teach some truths. And we've had to do that, you know, we. With experiencing. I grew up with a lot of generational dysfunction and trauma, and there's a lot of things, you know, that we've had to work through. And I've had to learn about myself and relearn communication and anxious thought patterns. And so sometimes, you know, when I tell my kids, like, I wish. I wish you didn't have to see this. I wish this was not your experience. You know, I wish that I could somehow be magically, like, a hundred yards ahead of where I am. But this is the savings, grace that is provided to us by Jesus. And I am always going to find my way crawling back to the foot of the cross and just surrendering myself to God's love and grace, because that is my only hope in this world. I think that that's something that maybe when we were talking about other generations and past generations, maybe that would have even been perceived as somewhat disrespectful. But I think we can teach our kids to speak truth to us in a way that is respectful, and that's where they come to their questions. And sometimes it may uncover some. I loved the. What was the word you use? Congruence. Some incongruence that we have between what we do and what we say, and. And it just all comes back to those foundational, timeless truths. And I know that you've woven so many of those through the book, Courtney, but what is the reminder? Give us a cheat sheet. Give us a homework. Give us an encouragement of.
His Love will not waver because it's based on his character, not yours
What are those timeless truths that we need to constantly reiterate? Great.
Courtney Doctor: M. That God's love is so vast and so good and so strong, like his love will hold you. His Love will not waver because it's based on his character, not yours. And so that, to me is the game changer, right? Like, if it was based on my character, it would waver all the time. but it's not. It's based on his character. And so I think that is one of the foundational truths. I think, think that, the fact that we love because he first loved us, that there is a good and right response to this love. And it's not just, you know, go live however we want, but it's, it's drawn near to him and, and, and cultivate our own hearts. To cultivate the affection of our own hearts towards him. yeah, I think that there's just. It striving cease, right? Striving cease when we really understand how loved we actually are.
Dr. Jessica Peck: I think that is a truth that every kid needs to just have emblazoned on their hearts because the countercultural forces are like tsunami level right now. And it can be really overwhelming and very fear inducing for parents. But if we build our house on the foundation of the rock of the truth of the gospel of Jesus Christ, Christ. Then I had a guest not too long ago who was talking about how, you know, the rains came and the winds blew. And it's not like, oh, a gentle, you know, rolling rain in a meadow. It's like, oh, some of the images like we're seeing from, you know, the people who are impacted in Hawaii by the recent hurricanes. And, my prayers are definitely with them because I know what it's like to go through a hurricane. But it's like, okay, like, the things can be battered, things can be messed up, but the foundation still stands knowing that we can teach our kids that it's okay to bring your questions to God. God is big enough to handle your questions, to handle your fears. Your failures are not going to surprise him, make you stop loving him. You don't have to know everything because God already knows everything. And God and the joy of the Lord is our strength. And you know, I was. I was talking actually to my son the other day, and we were talking about a tough situation, and that's what he reminded me of. The joy of the Lord is our strength. And that was really convicting to me.
Courtney, what do you hope listeners take away from Andy and his Big Question?
Well, Courtney, it's been such a pleasure talking to you and our time together has come to an end. But I'd love to give you just a minute to give a last word of encouragement to our listeners what you hope that they will walk away from in reading Andy and his Big question.
Courtney Doctor: Oh, I. First of all, it's just been a joy to be here. But I would say that when you. You feel those winds and those waves and those tsunamis coming at you or at your children, to remind yourself that the love of God is the tsunami.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Right.
Courtney Doctor: It is the thing that should just overwhelm us and, and consume us and. And it's in that that we actually find our hope. We find our security, we find our.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Our being.
Courtney Doctor: We find. Yeah. If we're feeling tossed about, it's the place that stabilizes us. And then, like you said, it strengthens us and it grows us.
Dr. Jessica Peck: It does. And Jesus even slept in the storm. And you know, Courtney, I thank you so much for bringing us back to the heart of discipleship. Because we're not just trying to give our kids all the right answers for every possible question that they'll encounter. We are trying to give them a theological foundation that is strong enough to stand on even when the storms get louder, when the questions get bigger. Because all of our kids are going to encounter deep, you know, disappointment and difficulty in life. But God, But God, honestly, listen to your kids questions. Open God's word. Pray together. Remember that God loved us first. And as you do, I pray that the Lord will bless you and keep you and make his face to shine upon you, be gracious to you and give you peace. I'll see you tomorrow.
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Jeff Chamblee: opinions expressed in this broadcast may not necessarily reflect those of the American Family association or American Family Radio.
Courtney Doctor joins Jessica to talk about helping kids to find security in God's Love.
https://www.courtneydoctor.org/
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Chapters:
(00:00) We would like to take a moment to thank our sponsor, PreBorn
(05:29) Courtney Doctor wrote a children's book called Andy and His Big Question
(06:46) Courtney Docter is a Bible teacher, author and grandmother of five
(07:39) Courtney: Tell us about how you came to know the Lord
(13:43) Bo and I wrote a book about being enough. And that is a truth that our kids need to hear
(16:43) American Family Radio is listener supported; without you this podcast would not exist
(20:41) Courtney says children are willing to ask big questions about God
(27:24) Leading children with humility and vulnerability is crucial, Courtney says
(32:22) Dr. Jessica Peck: Anchoring children's worth is very important
(38:31) Courtney, what are some simple family practices that families can do?
(41:14) Kids have a radar for authenticity and they know when there's discrepancy
(46:55) His Love will not waver because it's based on his character, not yours
(49:25) Courtney, what do you hope listeners take away from Andy and his Big Question?
(51:13) Preborn has rescued over 400,000 babies from abortion
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