Sponsor Message: Supporting Preborn Network Clinics and Pro-Life Efforts for Mothers and Babies
Dr. Jessica Peck: We would like to take a moment to thank our sponsor, PreBorn. When a mother meets her baby on ultrasound and hears their heartbeat, it's a divine connection. And the majority of the time she will choose life. But they can't do it without our help. Preborn needs us, the pro life community, to come alongside them. One ultrasound is just $28. To donate, dial pound 250 and say the keyword baby or visit preborn.com/AFR friend we're living in a defining moment today. A woman facing an unexpected pregnancy can order the abortion pill online, often before anyone has the chance to tell her she is loved, that she's not alone, or that there is hope. That's why you are needed right now. You were made for this moment. At, PreBorn Network clinics, mothers are welcomed with compassion, practical support and a free ultrasound. And when she sees her baby and hears that tiny heartbeat for the very first time, feeling fear often gives way to hope. In fact, more than 80% of abortion vulnerable women choose life after seeing their baby on an ultrasound at a PreBorn Network clinic. That one moment can save a baby's life and open a mother's heart to the hope of Jesus Christ. This is our moment to stand. For those who cannot speak for themselves. Just $28 provides one life saving ultrasound. $140 helps rescue five babies. Please don't wait. Dial pound 250 and say the keyword baby. That's pound 250 baby. If you're a business owner, would you consider a larger donation to claim a write off? Your best gift would be appreciated. A stand alone gift of $15,000 will sponsor an ultrasound machine for a needy clinic helping to save countless babies lives for years to come. All gifts are tax- deductible. Together we can save lives one heartbeat at a time. preborncom/AFR hello and welcome to the Dr. Nurse Mama show prescribing Hope for healthy families here on American radio. Here's your host, professor, pediatric nurse practitioner and mom of four, Dr. Jessica Peck.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, hey there friends and welcome to my favorite time of day getting to spend time with you.
Navigating Family Conflict: Understanding the Transition to Parenting Adult Children and Setting Healthy Boundaries
Prescribing Hope for Healthy families. We're going to talk about a really important topic that I have been hearing about everywhere I'm going in my friend circle, in my social circle, in my community. On the news we're talking about family conflict and you may have heard a lot of people talking about the increasing trend of going no contact. And we're going to talk about that transition phase because there is a parenting transition that I think people don't talk about enough. It's really socially acceptable to talk about the struggles that you have when your kids are toddlers. Everyone's going to give you sympathy for the lost sleep that you have, the potty training, traumas that happen, all of those things. But when you get to be a parent of adults, a grandparent of adults, your heart doesn't stop being their parent. I mean, for 18, 21, however many years you have them. Parents. We spend our lives making decisions for our kids, setting boundaries, correcting their behavior, protecting them, teaching them, teaching them how to drive, reminding them of all the things they need to do to be adults and paying for them, mostly praying for them and trying to prepare them to launch into the world. But something changes. Our kids grow up, and often we hold on to who they used to be. And we have more joy in those days than joy and hope we have in who they are becoming, because our kids all of a sudden aren't under our control. They're making their own decisions, they're establishing their own homes, choosing their own friends, career, spouses, parenting philosophies, and sometimes even their own beliefs. And suddenly the parenting question changes from how do I control this child? How do I raise this child? How do I make the decisions for them? To how do we begin to have healthy relationships as adults? And it can be so difficult because we live in a culture that equates love, agreement, and acceptance. If my child makes a decision, I believe it's wrong. It can feel almost impossible not to intervene if they marry someone that we wouldn't have chosen for them, parent their children differently than we parented them, they move back home, they struggle financially, they walk away from the faith. These situations are very real and faced by families every day. They stir up fear and anger and grief, and if we're really honest, sometimes bitterness, resentment towards them, and sometimes even towards God. But a biblical worldview calls us to a different picture of love. How do we hold truth and grace at the same time? How do we speak the truth in love? How do we be quick to listen, slow to speak, slow to become angry? How do we forgive and still have boundaries? How do we practice humility and trust, ultimately the outcomes to God? When we're not in control, the goal is not to stop caring about them, to walk away, to have no contact. That's not the goal. The goal is to learn to love without controlling, to speak, without manipulating, to establish boundaries, without also withdrawing love, and to maintain relationship even when agreement isn't possible. So we're Talking to parents who are entering this season, parents who have been in the season, maybe grandparents. Maybe you're in the middle of it, wondering what happened. We are joined by expert Dr. Kathy Koch
Expert Insights on Resolving Conflict with Adult Children: Shifting from Control to Influence and Building Healthy Relationships
She is founder of Celebrate Kids, Inc. And she is a trusted guide to parents raising kids of all ages. Dr. Kathy holds a PhD in Educational Psychology and reading, and has spent years helping parents better understand their children, how to communicate effectively, navigate those differences and remain connected as family roles change. We're talking about her book today. She's the author of multiple, multiple books, but we are talking about how to resolve conflict and find peace and hope with adult children. That is the newest book, and I think it could not be more perfectly timed from a better source to. Dr. Kathy, welcome. We are so glad to have you here. Thank you so much for spending time with us today.
Dr. Kathy Koch: Well, thank you for the invitation. I'm honored to be here. And you certainly set this up. Like, everybody listening is on the edge of their seat now. And, you're. You're telling them that we're going to solve all these problems. I can't wait to hear what we're going to say.
Dr. Jessica Peck: No pressure. We'll put in our Nobel Peace Prize application right now. It is a tall order, but, Dr. Kathy I am. I m. Am convinced that you are up for delivering some really good help and hope today. And we, you know, I'm right in the middle of this stage of life. I've got four kids. I'm launching them all into adulthood. So I am feeling all the things. And I want to know from your seat, what inspired you to write this book now? What. What it made you realize, hey, we've got a problem here, and we really need some help and some hope navigating this really difficult transition season.
Dr. Kathy Koch: Right. Well, like you, when I'm out and about, doing my ministry, I'm hearing it all. You know, I'm hearing from the adult children who have been disappointed in their parents or confused by parents or angry with parents. And I'm hearing from the parents of adult children that, they're stressed and depressed and anxious and concerned and trying to figure out what in the world went wrong. That their children are either no contact or just very difficult. I hear more about the difficulties than I do about the no contact. Part of me thinks that that's been exaggerated by the media, although I know that it is happening. I, again, I'm motivated to serve and help and speak hope and help into people's lives just as you are. And my audience has grown up. You know, my ministry is 35 years old. I've been a published author for almost 20 years, which is just ridiculously amazing. And so, you know, the moms and dads who started out with me when their children were toddlers and it was bedtime battles, now it is, you know, these issues. And you know what, Jessica? The other reason that I wrote the book is I come from a really healthy multigenerational family. I grew up kitty corner from one set of grandparents and my dad cut a hole in the fence. And we grew up three blocks from my dad's parents and so went to church with aunts, uncles, cousins and grandparents, had many, many Sunday lunches. And so I know the benefit of the multi generational family. And let me remind our listeners that God ordained the family before he ordained the church, like it matters greatly to him who were connected to, you know, in a blood relational way. And so he's grieving. So therefore let's step into the mess and see if we can offer people some solutions.
Dr. Jessica Peck: I agree with you, Dr. Kathy I hear a lot more about the difficulties, the challenges, and really it gives me hope though, because people have a longing for connection and relationship. And I come from the other side of the spectrum as you. I come from a family with a lot of generational dysfunction. A, lot of that is tied to addiction and just the relationship patterns that come with that that I didn't learn about until I became a nurse practitioner. But families like yours give me hope for my family because I know the longing of that and to know that, that, that is real, that is attainable, it gives me hope. And one of the interesting distinctions that you make in this, that I think is a good ground setting, is that you say that parent is our noun, but it transitions and it's no longer always our verb. How can we use that as kind of a level setting here to give us some perspective about stepping into this stage?
Dr. Kathy Koch: Yeah, thanks for asking that question. Parent will always be your noun. Child will always be the child's noun. Those things don't change and you need to own that and believe in that and pray about that, even if they are having less, communication with you. But we don't parent as a verb unless we're given permission to do so. We have to be willing to transition, to be a guide, consultant, cheerleader, mentor, ah, leader. But we don't parent unless we're invited to do so, because what the people are telling us is that it feels very disrespectful when we do that they are now adults. They might not act like it. let's own that. You know, they might still be living at home, but they've reached that age where they consider themselves adults. And legally they might be that. And so we need to step off or step away and listen, longer, as you've already implied, and you know, parent differently. And it's, it's hard. And it's especially hard for moms who have been so invested in their children and involved in all of the business. And what adult children are telling me is that they want parents to be aware of their business, but not in their business.
Dr. Jessica Peck: That's so hard to do. I mean, as I said, I'm in this life stage right now. I, I actually, I tell my kids, I'm like, this is really like quasi adulthood. Yes, you are 18. Yes, you can have all of these rights and independences, and you're doing these things on your own. And yet I'm still financing your life. So how do we transition here? What are some of the conflicts that you see? You mentioned some of the disagreements. What do you see rising to the top? What are the top sources of friction or conflict in that relationship?
Dr. Kathy Koch: That's a great question, Jessica. I would say that, the disrespect that adult children feel when we step into their space without being invited, kind of going back to what I was just saying. In other words, you stopping at their apartment. I don't think most of our listeners would stop by a friend's apartment without asking if that would be okay, but they do it with their children because, well, they're my children and they shouldn't have any problem with me ever stopping by. But you might be stopping by at an inappropriate moment. So it's the lack of permission, it's the lack of request that I hear a lot about. Like, why didn't they text and say, hey, I'd like to stop by one day this week with some, homemade muffins. You know, which day would be good? So I think that's a huge issue. blaming. Huge, issue. Not, forgiving huge issue. You know, we can talk about those things. Making, assumptions, I think is huge. You know, they didn't call me back, so they don't love me. No, don't go to that dark workplace right away. Maybe they loaned somebody their phone and they don't even have their phone and they didn't even get your message. That's very true with grandchildren. It's possible that your daughter in law lent her phone to her daughter and she didn't get your message yet that you'd love to stop by with blueberry muffins because you know it's one of her favorites and you're upset that she hasn't immediately said, that's a great idea, thanks for your love. Maybe she doesn't even have the message yet. Let's not go to that dark place and assume that we're not wanted or we're not loved.
Dr. Jessica Peck: It's. It, again, it is so challenging. I think one of the things that's challenging for parents in this generation, Dr. Kathy is that we are really kind of subtly trained and influenced to raise our kids as products for the world to be the display of what kind of parent we were. And when we have all the control, it feels a lot more comfortable. But all of a sudden we don't have that control anymore and they may do something that is embarrassing to us. I'm just going to say it, just be really honest. Or we, oh, I don't want people to think of that. And it's more, we think more about ourselves and how that reflects on ourselves than really caring about meeting them where they are. How can we push against that and accept that we're moving to a model of having influence over them and not authority and control?
The Privilege of Influence: Releasing Control and Embracing a New Parenting Paradigm with Adult Children
That's super hard.
Dr. Kathy Koch: It is super hard. And I'm really grateful that you're being vulnerable to share that because it's absolutely true. I'm not sure we had control when they were little, to be honest.
Dr. Jessica Peck: That is so true.
Dr. Kathy Koch: But we, you know, we think we did and of course we have more. But now we get the privilege of influence. And could I just say to everyone listening, influence is better than nothing. And influence is actually way better than control. control is do it my way. And influence is, you know, what do you think would be best? My recommendation would be this, you know, what do you think would work well for you? So beginning to release them to be, independent thinkers and where they come to us and they say, you know, dad, you know, if I remember right, when, when I was in middle school, you know, you struggled with your boss but you ultimately decided to stay at that job. You know, I'm struggling. Not sure that I'm being led. Well, not sure I have advancement possibilities. You know, how did you decide to stay put where you were like, what an opportunity for you to speak life into your son or even to, into a son in law or daughter or whatever about the truth. So I think we become satisfied or we see that as a glorious thing, that we can be influential. And I think we earn that right. And we earn the right by being a role mod model, by being quiet when we should be quiet, by taking advantage of teachable moments, by, talking about all the things we have in common and avoiding the things where we don't have things in common so that there's, you know, less disagreement. And. And I think, again, you know, I'm going to be brave here and say this, Jessica. we can't idolize our kids. M. One of the things that happens when children are younger in particular, you know, you're exactly right. We turn them into performance machines. And. And it's their job to make me look good. In fact, most helicopter parents and I address helicoptering in this book because there is data to suggest that if you over parent, it's harder for the children to stay connected to you when they're adults because they assume that you can't parent any other way. Now, those of you that are who are listening, God bless you for being here. You were doing what you thought was the best thing to do. You were protecting your children. You know, there's a biology test. You want to study, right? But don't spill your juice. Hey, you want to go practice in the backyard? You know, soccer tryouts are tomorrow. You said you wanted to practice dribbling. You know, right now would be a good idea before dinner. And you did all of those things to help them, but you also did those things to protect your reputation. And this is what we know to be true. And people don't like to admit that this was a hard book to write because of this reason, but it is true that it was our reputation that was on the line. And. And you. You've got to release that this is not about you looking good. This is about you blessing your children with truth. That will help them be content and, yes, successful in the relationships, which would include education and career. So I hope that's coming across all right. You know, love them. Well, don't. Don't expect them to perform for you. Don't worship them. And Jessica, you know, like, I love afr. You guys know what I know? And that is that we're designed to worship. We're created to worship. We're created to worship God. And if we don't worship God, I'm sure you agree we will worship someone or something.
Dr. Jessica Peck: That void is there.
Dr. Kathy Koch: And marriage.
Dr. Jessica Peck: You're so right. I'm gonna hold you right there because we are already at our first break, but I could talk to you for a long time. Like I said, I'm being transparent because I am living this and learning this as I go and I appreciate people who are willing to speak to truths. Thanks for not being chatgpt for me and just telling me what I want to hear. We'll have more help and hope and tough truths that'll be helpful for you right on the other side of this break, more with Dr. Kathy Koch
Listener Support Appeal for American Family Radio and Dr. Nurse Mama Podcast
Hello, I'm Jessica peck, host of Dr. Nurse Mama. Did you know that this content is listener supported? Without people like you, this podcast would not exist. And that's why we need you. A generous monthly gift of any amount will help sustain American Family Radio and specifically this podcast. Please consider becoming a monthly financial partner today by visiting afr.net/give that's afr.net/give
Focus on Love and Relationship: Navigating Adult Children Dynamics and Finding Peace Amidst Family Conflict
All About Love by Steven Curtis Chapman: Me yeah. We got CDs T& videos, radio and TV shows, conferences, retreats and seminars. We got books on, magazines for read on everything from A to Z and a web to surf from anywhere we are But I hope with all this is information buzzing through our brains and we will not let our hearts forget the most important thing is love love love love love it's all about love love love love love. Everything else comes out of this Nothing any higher on the L.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Friends that is All About Love by Steven Curtis Chapman. And recently I was able to sit down with Steven and Mary Beth Chapman about their new book Still Here. And they talked about their marriage and being married for decades now, the ups and downs and parenting adult children. And that's what we're talking about Today with expert Dr. Kathy Koch And we're talking about her new book that is going to equip you to be able to look at what is the what do we do in this life stage. I'm right there with you and this book, Resolve Conflict and find peace and hope with your adult children. This is a game changer. I hear so many parents talking about the conflict that is in their family and especially conflict between adult children and their parents. And they want to have a good relationship. It's just hard.
The Parental Role Shift: Embracing Influence Over Control and Normalizing Failure in Adult Children Relationships
One of the hardest things about having that relationship is that the relationship changes before our parental instincts do. And so it's almost like we're doing things backwards and we may still see that child we carried and raised and disciplined. I remember seeing the movie Father of the Bride back in the 90s and how, you know, this little girl is telling her dad, I'm getting married and all of a sudden she's 5 years old. I still See my kids like that. These are kids that we carried, we raised, we disciplined, we protected, we prayed over, we. We gave everything for. But now, all of a sudden, that child is now an adult who has the responsibility and freedom to make their own decisions. And Dr. Kathy is emphasizing a really powerful distinction in this book and in this message today that parents are always going to be parents, but you don't get to parent your adult children unless you're invited to. And right before the break, Dr. Kathy we were talking about influence and how you said influence is better than control. And you were speaking some really important truths about not. Not idolizing our children. That can be really, really hard to do. And so I want to let you finish your thought on that.
Dr. Kathy Koch: Yeah, thank you. Maybe what we. Maybe what would benefit our listeners would be, you know, how do we know if we're idolizing our kids?
Dr. Jessica Peck: That's good, right?
Dr. Kathy Koch: Like. Like one of the things I said was that you treat them like performers and that you expect them to make you look good. And I. And I would say it this way as well. if they have a bad day, you have a bad day. And if they have a good day, you have a good day that's being intertwined in ways that are not healthy. and the pressure they feel. When I interviewed people and read what I read to prepare to write this book, Jessica, so many young men and women said that they're so afraid to disappoint their moms. In particular, it's the mom. And so then they don't tell us what's going on. If they're afraid that they'll disappoint us and make us angry or fearful, then they may not come to us for the influence that desperate to provide. They may not indicate that a relationship has gone sour or that they got a bad review at work or that they're not sure that they're in the right church anymore. And how do you choose a church, Mom? I've never chosen a church except this one time, and I didn't get it right. So how do I choose a church? Like, if you want them to come to you, then you have to be open to them, admitting that they need you, which means that they'll have to admit that they're messing up in some way, perhaps, and they need to know that you're not going to panic and that you're not going to make them feel bad for making you feel bad. It can't be about you. It's not about you. Amen.
Dr. Jessica Peck: amen. Dr. Kathy you're so right in that. Because what I see is kind of what you were talking about earlier. That inner monologue that just starts going 90 miles an hour. And when you find out that your kids haven't shared a struggle with you, they haven't told you something, all of a sudden, often it is all about you. How could they not tell me this? How could they hide this from me? How could they have the poor character to keep this secret and to struggle and not come to me and know that I love them? And it's I, I, I, I, I. But you just gave a, really important shift in the mind. It's not because they're trying to hide something from you. It's because they care so much about what you think of them and they can't bear to live with that disappointment. And we've got to normalize failure. Dr. Kathy that is something I keep saying. We're not perfect parents. How can we normalize failure and, and make it when this happens, not if this happens, but when you struggle, come to me because I' struggle to.
Dr. Kathy Koch: Oh, like, teach it, preach it. Like, that's excellent. So, you know, I wrote a whole book about raising resilient kids a couple of years ago because we have to help our children walk out of the valley. they are going to fall down, they are going to earn a less than great grade. They're not going to make a team if they're courageous enough to try out. I've met some people who don't try out for fear that they'll disappoint their dad. so no, when, if you're listening to us and you, and you're not launching your kids yet, I'm glad you're here because you can begin to transition when they're in high school. In fact, let's remind everybody, Jessica, you've been launching your kids your whole life. You went from the crib to the toddler bed to the bigger bed. You went from the three wheel trike where they couldn't hurt themselves even if they fell off. And then the two wheeler with the training wheels. And then you took the training wheels off, but you held onto the bike and they were only allowed in the cul de sac or the driveway, you know, and now they're driving. You know, you have transitioned them, your whole life. That's, that's your motivation, is that they would grow up, I pray, and that they would mature up. And, you know, you've delighted in the progress they' I hope. And, now this is obviously Just another step. But if you're listening and your kids are younger, start now. Give them the freedom to walk out of the valley on their own and clap when they do, and celebrate the fact that they didn't collapse under the weight of a mistake. And I would say, although you're using the word failure correctly, sometimes we don't need to use that word. Failure is not as common as simply mistakes. And mistakes don't mean we're stupid. It might mean, our character was not healthy. It might mean that we, you know, didn't apply our effort. We. We didn't proofread. We didn't apologize to our boss, and therefore he lost respect for us. And therefore, the next time we made a mistake, we were fired. And. And that was. We were earned that. We earned being fired. Don't overprotect your kids from learning the things that they need to learn. They're 18, they're 24, and they lost a job. How powerful for you to step in and say, hey, Kevan, would you be. Would you be willing to listen to my perspective? Like, what I've noticed about you, you in the last year or two? I think it could help you in the future, like, earn the right to be heard. I'm rambling a little bit, but, man, all of that, all of that.
Building Relational Capital: Normalizing Mistakes and Fostering Connection with Adult Children Through Prayer and Humility
I pray that's valuable. It's so important.
Dr. Jessica Peck: It's so true. And in the continued spirit of transparency, I'll tell you, this is something I struggled with because part of my dysfunction and growing up, my coping mechanism, Dr. Kathy was perfectionism. I had to be perfect all the time. And so failure was so scary. And, my kids have been calling me out on that and saying, hey, you're way too hard on yourself. You're such a regretter, and you regret this choice, and you regret that you did this. And so I just had this, this revelation. I thought, okay, I am only going to regret sin if I sin, if I intentionally violate God's word. If I am, you know, really my heart is in rebellion, and I act out of anger or pride that I'm going to regret. If it's a mistake, then I just want to learn from that. Am I learning from it or am I having an adventure? Or both? Sometimes it is both. And I agree with you. Sometimes it's okay to normalize mistakes. Hey, you didn't have, like, life experience. You've never been in this situation before. Like, you made a financial, ah, decision that was. Has turned out to be poor. Okay, great. Let's find a way out of it. Because in this age of cancel culture. Dr. Kathy I think kids are living under this constant anxiety of, what happens if we mess up and what that response is like. How can we continue to soften that disclosure and continue to invite them to come to us? Us.
Dr. Kathy Koch: We have to be available without our phone. We, we can't be the ones to step away. So we, you know, we text occasionally. We, ask if we could FaceTime. Like, maybe they don't want us to come over. Maybe they're embarrassed by the way they keep their apartment and they don't want your, you know, the housekeeper mom, if you will, to come by and be satisfied with what you have rather than always negating that and wishing that you had more. Like if they'll FaceTime with you, celebrate the Lord for that, that, if they'll text, but they don't want to talk to you on the phone. Like, that's generational. And sadly, you might have to, you know, get used to that. And you know what, Jessica? It. None of it's possible without prayer. You know, I mean, we could talk for a whole hour on that. You know, to transition from a very involved parent to a less involved parent of an adult, takes. Takes a change of heart, to the Holy Spirit to lead, to guide us, to inspire us, to be loving in the way that they can receive it. to pray for our kids and our grandkids, that they would be well, that they would choose wisely, that they would make decisions that honor the Lord. that if they've, if they appear to have been moved further from the God of the Bible, that you would pray them closer to Him. And I'll say this, and we can talk about this more if you'd like, but I hear more, parents of adult kids complain about their kids not being in church. Church. I wish that the emphasis would be that they're not in a dynamic relationship with Jesus Christ. Amen.
Dr. Kathy Koch: As, as important as the church is, and I, and I want them to find a good church. This is a, this is a difficult age group. Churches don't do well traditionally with the graduated, young adult, if you will. there's, there's not a lot of ministries for the 20 to 30 year old that are vibrant that I have found. if you've got a church with one man, I'd love to know about it. But I think, I, I would like us to be more concerned about the relationship with Christ. Christ, like, did they ever have one? Can I just go there? Like, did they ever have one? Did they borrow your faith? And, let's pray them into a relationship with God that transforms them. And let's pray that he would help us know when to speak and when to listen.
Dr. Jessica Peck: That's so tough because being in church is the outward image and the other is the heart. And that's what we need to care about. And I think it's hard for a generation of parents who have grown up with more control of their child's image than ever before. And we, we see this with parents stewarding their child's digital footprint, and they can image craft and create whatever kind of image that they want for their child. And I've. I've met with a lot of adult children now, Dr. Kathy whose parents grew up posting them on social media. And they look back, and the story that their parents have told is not the story that they want to tell. It's not the story, the image, the way that they see their life going. And I know.
Choosing Battles Wisely: Focusing on Character, Progress, and Healthy Boundaries in Adult Child Relationships
Oof. I am. I am right there with them. This is something that I've really had to, to give up. Some of things that I've done is really tell the story with them together and think, is this moment worth preserving? Is this moment worth remembering? Is this consistent with the way that they see themselves, with the way that we're teaching them, that God has made them and that God. The ways that God has gifted them, enabled them? And sometimes when you're in that transition and you're having that. That struggle and that conflict. Dr. Kathy one of the things I know you talk about a lot, and I agree with so much, and it doesn't matter if you're in this adult stage or if you're in the preteen stage or even the toddler stage, when you're on the struggle bus, you need to choose your battles. And sometimes I think as adult parents, when we ever. We don't see them as often. So as soon as we see them, we're like, oh, I have a list of things I want to address with you. Here's my list of grievances A, B, C and D. And by the way, you're not calling me enough. And you're not doing this, and you're not going to church. You're not doing this. We've got to choose our battles. What is the most important to us? So speak some words of life to me and to everyone else who's listening.
Dr. Kathy Koch: Well, man, there's so much I could say. Thanks for all of that. Let me back up a bit and just talk about social media. If all you've posted about your kids is the positive real, then this is one of the reasons that they think that they're performing for you and that they're afraid to admit that they're, that they're struggling. And so, I would encourage you to post less, perhaps to ask permission to post and to post about the victory, after a valley experience. That would be huge to the people who follow. You would love to know that. And your kids need to see that they haven't embarrassed you. In fact, they've inspired you because they didn't stay down in the valley. They stood up and walked out. I think that's huge. so I would mention that I think, oh man, my mind is rambling inside.
Dr. Jessica Peck: it's so true. I agree with you on that. I wish that parents would post about their kids character instead of just their accomplishments because that's such a comparison thing. You know, it's like they won this award and those things are worthy of celebration. But if you post character like, hey, my kid really, really showed perseverance today. My kids showed self control. Those are the kinds of images that you can have. And then when you go on what we were talking about too. What I talked about too, because I'm rambling all over the place because I'm all over the place with this. But so much important stuff to cover. We were talking about choosing your battles. How do you choose your.
Dr. Kathy Koch: Thank you. Sorry. Yeah, yeah. I appreciate you reminding me of that. And let me say yes, yes and yes. What are your family values? What matters mostly to you? and absolutely you need to release some things and you need to ask the Lord to show them who in their life could help them with that if it's not you. Let's pray them into relationships with godly people, with, with people who are more mature than they are that they might be willing to follow if they don't want to follow us right now. And let's get out the green pen. Like we walk into their apartment with a red pen or we meet them in a restaurant with that list. You know, what about this, this and this? You know, I, I swear, my friend, if we would could find the good things and talk about the good things, if we would notice the progress that they've made. Don't look for perfection. It's not realistic. Jesus is perfect. We're not. Look for progress. Look for hope and talk about it. Talk about the things that you notice with their attitudes and with their relationships and with the way that they're overcoming the challenges, that they've been brave to talk to a supervisor, that they've bravely looked at other educational options, that they have bravely gone out, out and tried to meet someone of the opposite gender to have an actual date with. celebrate those things, get out a green pen and focus on what is right.
Dr. Jessica Peck: You know, one of the things that I did when I was in a season of struggle, as every parent child dynamic will go through at some point, every healthy parent child dynamic will go through struggle. And I wrote about this in my book and challenged other parents to do it, too. Dr. Kathy with, but was to keep a journal every day for something that you are grateful for in that relationship and then, then share that with them, say for the last month. These are the things that I've been grateful for about you every day. Because sometimes it can just feel like, you know, they're not keeping their room clean. They're not, you know, whatever age of stage of parenting. It's just like you said, we're so much freer with our criticism than we are with our praise. But just randomly texting them or intentionally texting them every day, something that you appreciate about them, something they're doing really well, something that they are accomplishing that you see, see a character trait that you're developing. You're going to buy yourself a lot of relational capital. Then they're not going to want to pick up the phone if all they know you're going to do is nag them about, I know I haven't gone to church, or I know I haven't fixed this financial problem, or I know I haven't, you know, changed whatever it is, or cut my hair, whatever it is that you feel like is that thing. We got to choose our battles. Now, listen, when we come back, we're going to talk a lot more about this. And one of the things that I hear the most is how do we balance truth and grace? How do we give unconditional love without unconditional acceptance? Well, we may not be able to get the Nobel Peace Prize, but we're going to move forward with some help and hope that is grounded in biblical worldview. We'll be right back with Dr. Kathy Koch
Here's Dr. Ben Witherington from the American Family Studios documentary The God Who Speaks
Here's Dr. Ben Witherington from the American Family Studios documentary the God who Speaks.
Dr. Ben Witherington: Here's the most important point. Before looking at our gospels, most ancient people believed that how you died, most revealed your character. Now, this is a problem, because how did Jesus die? He died by the most shameful way to die. In antiquity through death on a cross. So one of the strong motivations for telling the tale the way that the New Testament writers told it is to make clear that though this would appear to be the most horrific and shameful death ever, that yet he was still not only a good person, but he was God's person on top of that. And that after his death, God vindicated him. Visit thegodwhospeaks.org.
Holy Spirit Come by Patrick Mayberry: I'm coming with a heart of worship. I'm bringing in a brand new song. I'm ready to see the unthinkable I'm ready for a miracle. Heart's praying for fresh encountering souls Looking to the living God I'm ready for real revival. O Holy Spirit. M holy spirit, Come.
Balancing Truth and Grace: Navigating Adult Children Relationships with Unconditional Love and Healthy Boundaries
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Dr. Jessica Peck: welcome back, friends. That is Holy Spirit, come. By Patrick Mayberry and you may be feeling that today, you may be in a season of struggle with your adult children. I'm talking to Dr. Kathy Koch today about her new book, book Resolve Conflict and Find Peace and Hope with Adult Children. This is something I hear about everywhere I go. Parents and adults who are struggling to find that healthy relationship. And if that is you, I congratulate you. I thank you. I applaud you. Because if you are struggling, that means your heart is still longing for connection. And I am so grateful for relationships that still even have that little bit of hurt there that aren't completely estranged, completely bitter, completely cold. And we're talking today about how can we. How can we parent better when we get to that stage? And Dr. Kathy has told us, no matter what stage of parenting you're in, you can start now. And we're talking through that now. Dr. Kathy as I said, one of the biggest things that I hear is how do we hold truth and grace and at the same time, how do we move into a space where we give unconditional love but not unconditional acceptance? How do we lead with love and. And, and not fear or anger when it feels like the stakes are so high, how do we step into that space and try to balance those two things? I think that's the most common question that I hear from parents of adult children. Children.
Dr. Kathy Koch: Yeah. I'm not surprised. It's very real and really hard. So we pray for ourselves and, you know, how have any of you ever done it? Like, it's not easy when they're eight to have unconditional love and to present both truth and grace. I'm so grateful that the Bible doesn't teach us that we have to unconditionally like them. You know, we don't. And we don't have to like everything they do. we don't have to point out the things that we don't like necessarily. But again, I think we pray carefully for ourselves and we, we are more positive than negative. And we maybe ask them, would you, Would you like my perspective? you know, if. If you're a believer and they know that, they know that your perspective is going to come from the word of God, and they may not want to hear it. And I, I wonder if we would sometimes say, you know, I've. I'm. I'm noticing some patterns. I've. You know, sometimes we have blind spots. I sure have blind spots about my life. And I wonder if, if you're, you know, are you open to something I've noticed that I think could really help you at work or help you with your. Your relationship with Jennifer or whatever. I think we invite ourselves to be heard, and if they say, no, not yet, then we go, okay, and we change the subject. when we pivot to something like their favorite birthday party when they were little, I mean, it can be something that's just not important in the moment. But I would say that I would also think, you know, Jessica, we could teach them. A lot of children of all ages tell me, you know, Dr. Kathy my parents tell me what they do, and they yell at me when I don't do it.
Dr. Jessica Peck: It.
Dr. Kathy Koch: I wish they would teach me how, so I would encourage us, in all ages. But this is also true. If they're 19 and 20, they're dealing with independence for the first time. They're dealing with car payments and insurance and, and seeking a new provider and trying to figure out how to make a, you know, an apartment rent payment. There are new things that they're dealing with and they don't necessarily need to be told. Man, I'm, I'm so sad about your choice or disappointed in your decision. But what if we taught them how do we reason? How do we make the decisions we make? How do you decide what to spend your money on? And how do you shop insurance if you feel like your car insurance is too high? I think we could teach better and then they would receive the truth better. I, I hope that comes across okay.
Dr. Jessica Peck: It. These are tough truths because they are such sensitive issues. But I think, you know, as I said before, in an age of chat GBT where, we see, I see even increasingly parents and grandparents going to chat box for relationship advice, and that can be such a Dangerous space, because chatbots are designed to reinforce your worldview, to know your preferences, and to tell you what you want to hear. So I'm grateful, Dr. Kathy that you and I are both sitting here saying, no, this is tough truths, but this is. This is how to say it. And I think that there's a lot of parents who, you know, who can really lean harder on the love side than the truth side, because you said something really important. If you have raised your. Your kids to know a biblical worldview, and they know exactly how you see the world, and you have told them a million times about what you believe and what God's rules are, they know that. They inherently know that. And God's word will not return void. And that's not saying you have to affirm their life choices that you disagree with. But how do you also show them love in that and have some healthy boundaries on both sides? Because sometimes parents may put boundaries and say, okay, we can cannot affirm this. We cannot participate in this. We cannot support this. But also sometimes kids are going to put boundaries on us too, and say, okay, this is a space in my life that you're not welcome. How do we start to navigate those still with an overarching us, showing them love? Because we are the parents, and we've got to lead in that way.
Dr. Kathy Koch: First Corinthians 13 can be taken out of the marriage ceremony and put into life. You know, love endures and love is true. So we say to our kids, you know, I can't. I can't call you by your preferred pronoun because that would be a lie, and I don't lie by standard. You know that about me. so the answer is no. And I would pray that you would understand that, you know, my love for you remains. You're my child. I'll never not love you. But part of love is true truth. Part of love is teaching what is best for you. You know, your whole life, we said, don't run out into the road. You wanted to be in the road, we said, don't. Why? Because we love you. And that's not going to change. And you have to decide now that you're an adult whether or not you can handle that. We still have that. That platform that we, you know, raise you with, if you will, or we don't. The platform through which we relate. However you would say that, I think that becomes really important. Love remains. Love is true. Love endures. Love is patient. Love is honest. We need to know that. We need to pray that into ourselves Even if we're not treated that way, we treat others that way. And this is when you know, Jessica, some parents who are listening, if you need to take a break, take a break. You know, if your kids have not gone, no contact. I'm not saying you should go no contact, but you can take a break. If they have treated you disrespectfully the last four times they visited with you, you. And it's breaking your heart, you can take a break and you can say to your son, hey, I. You know, we're. We're not available this Friday night. And if he says, why not? You can. You don't have to give him a reason. Or you can say, man, my heart just needs a break. But what do you mean? Well, we love you, and yet it's really been hard and challenging to be with you because you've treated. Or this ideally. This is the dad speaking. You've treated your mom with disrespect. You've not let her finish her sentences. You have called her foolish to her faith space. It's just not unhealthy for us. We're going to take a break and. And you can do that now. One of the recommendations I make in the book is that find someone to give all that love to. I think one of the things that's so hard, Jessica, is especially the moms. You guys are nurturers. And dads, of course, also love their. Their children who become adults. You've got all this love to share, and it's so painful for you that they're not receiving it. But how many people in our churches are lonely? Every single one of us knows people in our churches where the children and the grandchildren don't have that adult. Because they're either across the country, they're deceased, or they've gone on no contact. But you, hey, could I attend your daughter's piano lesson? I love taking piano lessons and I love to support her. Or you invite them over for Mother's Day and you become the surrogate. It's not the same. Loving somebody else isn't the same as loving your kid. But to share who you are with other people would build up other people, which would then build up the church and change the culture. So I. I made a very strong statement in my book about not sitting at home and twiddling your thumbs and living with regards to regret, but finding someone who will receive you so that that part of you that that need to love and that need to share is met and you don't give up on your kids, but you also don't let them control you like they're trying to control. Yeah, they're trying to control you. Don't let that happen.
Dr. Jessica Peck: That, again, this is just such a tender space, and I can just almost feel it as we're talking, knowing that, you know, there are people who are just, just really hurting. And what I see a lot, Dr. Kathy is when all of these things that you're describing, these situations and they say, okay, we need to take a break.
Seeking Wise Counsel and Taking Accountability: Navigating Conflict and Strengthening Adult Child Relationships
Whether you set boundaries, whether your kids have said no contact or estrangement, which, by the way, I think no contact should be reserved for situations of abuse. Absolutely. There are reasons for that. But many times when we see this no contact or estrangement, we see people just living in, in, in silence and not sharing with anybody, not going to seek wise counsel. They're just of living in secrecy and shame. And, you know, it's just kind of a tough topic like, how are your kids doing? Oh, they're, they're fine. You know, I, I don't agree with their choices, but, you know, we're just gonna love them anyway, and you just move on. How can. Not everybody needs to know every piece of dirty laundry, but how can we move out of those shadows and start to seek wise counsel and share this burden with other believers who will encourage us and exhort us to good works?
Dr. Kathy Koch: Yeah, it's such a great question. Adult children, by the way, believe that most prayer chains are gossip milk. So be very careful, make sure that you're sharing with people who are trustworthy, people who will share your confidence and will keep it private. But, absolutely. I'm so glad you brought that up. We're not meant to carry this alone, so maybe there are family members. But again, you need to be careful that you don't necessarily let an aunt and an uncle know how their niece or nephew is treating you. They maybe don't need to know that. but yeah, friends, possibly your pastor. yeah, absolutely. Don't, don't live in this alone. Journal. If, if you process well by journaling, talk out loud as you walk. If you are an auditory processor like I am, and, and, that would be good for you. Take a break, rest, pay attention to the Sabbath. Make sure that you're strong in the things of the faith and, again, that they're not going to control you in that way.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, the other side of that in walking with accountability is, is taking accountability because there may be things that you did to hurt your kids. Didn't see. Maybe you were really well intentioned, but your child has a very different perception of how that went down. How do you be, make yourself open, even, even if it's just 1% of the conflict, or maybe it's more than that. How do you own accountability and be open to. Maybe I did mess up here.
Dr. Kathy Koch: No, that's really good. I appreciate you bringing that up. Yeah. To, to listen longer, to say to a son or a daughter. Okay, I want to, I want to hear your perspective. And I'm, I'm not going to interrupt you. Like, you make a commitment to not interrupt. So you meet to learn, not to share.
The Power of Listening and Humility: Understanding Perspectives and Fostering Connection in Adult Child Dynamics
You meet not to teach. You don't meet to persuade. You're meeting to listen. So you go into that coffee date, if you will, with that goal and you, you maybe ask clarification questions. But ideally they speak and they're allowed to speak. As hurtful as it might be. My memory of this event is that this happened. And then you ask permission, may I share my perspective? And maybe that happens at the same meaning and maybe it doesn't. That would depend on a lot of factors. But their perception is right according to them and your perception is right according to you. And so you agree to disagree or you say, oh, I can see how that would have come across that way. Because most of us, you know, when, when you parented when they were younger, you didn't explain everything. You had a reason up in your head and in your heart about why that boyfriend was a bad boyfriend for your daughter. Daughter. And now she resents that for what, whatever reason. It's five years later, she's lonely and she's like, if you wouldn't have rejected Jake, I. My life would be so different. And you're tempted to say, well, do you not remember Jake and how he treated you? Yeah, your life would be different. It would be worse. You know, again, you look for the opportunity to say that again, if that's your, if that's an accurate perception. So this is what's really hard. Right? So we sometimes I think, you know, we're going to agree to just agree, agree. And this is what I say in the book. Sometimes you just talk about the things that you agree to. You talk about memories. Memories keep the family alive. So talk about the past, talk about hope for the future, and maybe you leave the rest alone. But if you can come to a place of agreement, that would be beautiful. And that's going to take prayer listening longer. And your humility. Right. The parent has to be humble enough to say, okay, was I in that space? Was I arrogant? Was I controlling? Did I not trust my daughter? And that's why I was demanding. Come on. There are reasons that kids have gone no contact. And one of the reasons is that we were in conflict with them. And we look back and go, oh, our life was so rosy. We never had conflict. Come on. You know that's a lie. and so let's be honest about that.
Dr. Jessica Peck: I know. That's what I say all the time. You know, we can't love who our kids used to be more than we have hope in who they are becoming.
Finding Hope in God: Trusting Divine Love and Grace in Messy Family Conflicts with Adult Children
And Dr. Kathy I could talk to you a lot longer about this. We are at our last minute here, but what would you like to say to leave our listeners with some final words of hope?
Dr. Kathy Koch: Put hope in God. Put hope in God. He loves them more than you ever will. He loves you more than you can love yourself. Put your hope in God. He is faithful. Look back and recognize how faithful he's been to you. Don't hope in your kids and don't hope in yourself. You hope in God, and He is worthy of your hope. Ask him and watch him work on your behalf.
Dr. Jessica Peck: We have amen. Romans 15:13 is one of my favorites. That, God would fill you with hope. And that is the tagline for my show, hope for healthy families. Not perfect families, but healthy families. And also In Romans chapter 12, it says, if possible, as far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all. And we are. We are responsible for our words and our attitudes and our own humility and our willingness to forgive for our faithfulness and loving our kids unconditionally. But we are not responsible for controlling their response. And Psalm 46:10 reminds us, Be still and know that I am God. And maybe that's just what you need to do today is just to be still and to know that he is God and he is working. And he who began a good work is faithful to complete it. The goal is not a perfect work. It's connection and humility and healthy boundaries and unconditional love. And ultimately is trusting God with the adult children that he has entrusted to us. I encourage you, if you're in the middle of a relationship, struggle to get a copy of this book, to prayerfully consider it, to continue to pray, and don't lose hope. And as you do, I pray over you as I always do, that the Lord will bless you and keep you and make his face shine upon you even in the middle of messy family conflict. I'LL see time you next Next time we'd like to thank our sponsors, including PreBorn.
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Jeff Chamblee: opinions expressed in this broadcast may not necessarily reflect those of the American Family association or American Family Radio.
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Dr. Jessica Peck: We would like to take a moment to thank our sponsor, PreBorn. When a mother meets her baby on ultrasound and hears their heartbeat, it's a divine connection. And the majority of the time she will choose life. But they can't do it without our help. Preborn needs us, the pro life community, to come alongside them. One ultrasound is just $28. To donate, dial pound 250 and say the keyword baby or visit preborn.com/AFR friend we're living in a defining moment today. A woman facing an unexpected pregnancy can order the abortion pill online, often before anyone has the chance to tell her she is loved, that she's not alone, or that there is hope. That's why you are needed right now. You were made for this moment. At, PreBorn Network clinics, mothers are welcomed with compassion, practical support and a free ultrasound. And when she sees her baby and hears that tiny heartbeat for the very first time, feeling fear often gives way to hope. In fact, more than 80% of abortion vulnerable women choose life after seeing their baby on an ultrasound at a PreBorn Network clinic. That one moment can save a baby's life and open a mother's heart to the hope of Jesus Christ. This is our moment to stand. For those who cannot speak for themselves. Just $28 provides one life saving ultrasound. $140 helps rescue five babies. Please don't wait. Dial pound 250 and say the keyword baby. That's pound 250 baby. If you're a business owner, would you consider a larger donation to claim a write off? Your best gift would be appreciated. A stand alone gift of $15,000 will sponsor an ultrasound machine for a needy clinic helping to save countless babies lives for years to come. All gifts are tax- deductible. Together we can save lives one heartbeat at a time. preborncom/AFR hello and welcome to the Dr. Nurse Mama show prescribing Hope for healthy families here on American radio. Here's your host, professor, pediatric nurse practitioner and mom of four, Dr. Jessica Peck.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, hey there friends and welcome to my favorite time of day getting to spend time with you.
Navigating Family Conflict: Understanding the Transition to Parenting Adult Children and Setting Healthy Boundaries
Prescribing Hope for Healthy families. We're going to talk about a really important topic that I have been hearing about everywhere I'm going in my friend circle, in my social circle, in my community. On the news we're talking about family conflict and you may have heard a lot of people talking about the increasing trend of going no contact. And we're going to talk about that transition phase because there is a parenting transition that I think people don't talk about enough. It's really socially acceptable to talk about the struggles that you have when your kids are toddlers. Everyone's going to give you sympathy for the lost sleep that you have, the potty training, traumas that happen, all of those things. But when you get to be a parent of adults, a grandparent of adults, your heart doesn't stop being their parent. I mean, for 18, 21, however many years you have them. Parents. We spend our lives making decisions for our kids, setting boundaries, correcting their behavior, protecting them, teaching them, teaching them how to drive, reminding them of all the things they need to do to be adults and paying for them, mostly praying for them and trying to prepare them to launch into the world. But something changes. Our kids grow up, and often we hold on to who they used to be. And we have more joy in those days than joy and hope we have in who they are becoming, because our kids all of a sudden aren't under our control. They're making their own decisions, they're establishing their own homes, choosing their own friends, career, spouses, parenting philosophies, and sometimes even their own beliefs. And suddenly the parenting question changes from how do I control this child? How do I raise this child? How do I make the decisions for them? To how do we begin to have healthy relationships as adults? And it can be so difficult because we live in a culture that equates love, agreement, and acceptance. If my child makes a decision, I believe it's wrong. It can feel almost impossible not to intervene if they marry someone that we wouldn't have chosen for them, parent their children differently than we parented them, they move back home, they struggle financially, they walk away from the faith. These situations are very real and faced by families every day. They stir up fear and anger and grief, and if we're really honest, sometimes bitterness, resentment towards them, and sometimes even towards God. But a biblical worldview calls us to a different picture of love. How do we hold truth and grace at the same time? How do we speak the truth in love? How do we be quick to listen, slow to speak, slow to become angry? How do we forgive and still have boundaries? How do we practice humility and trust, ultimately the outcomes to God? When we're not in control, the goal is not to stop caring about them, to walk away, to have no contact. That's not the goal. The goal is to learn to love without controlling, to speak, without manipulating, to establish boundaries, without also withdrawing love, and to maintain relationship even when agreement isn't possible. So we're Talking to parents who are entering this season, parents who have been in the season, maybe grandparents. Maybe you're in the middle of it, wondering what happened. We are joined by expert Dr. Kathy Koch
Expert Insights on Resolving Conflict with Adult Children: Shifting from Control to Influence and Building Healthy Relationships
She is founder of Celebrate Kids, Inc. And she is a trusted guide to parents raising kids of all ages. Dr. Kathy holds a PhD in Educational Psychology and reading, and has spent years helping parents better understand their children, how to communicate effectively, navigate those differences and remain connected as family roles change. We're talking about her book today. She's the author of multiple, multiple books, but we are talking about how to resolve conflict and find peace and hope with adult children. That is the newest book, and I think it could not be more perfectly timed from a better source to. Dr. Kathy, welcome. We are so glad to have you here. Thank you so much for spending time with us today.
Dr. Kathy Koch: Well, thank you for the invitation. I'm honored to be here. And you certainly set this up. Like, everybody listening is on the edge of their seat now. And, you're. You're telling them that we're going to solve all these problems. I can't wait to hear what we're going to say.
Dr. Jessica Peck: No pressure. We'll put in our Nobel Peace Prize application right now. It is a tall order, but, Dr. Kathy I am. I m. Am convinced that you are up for delivering some really good help and hope today. And we, you know, I'm right in the middle of this stage of life. I've got four kids. I'm launching them all into adulthood. So I am feeling all the things. And I want to know from your seat, what inspired you to write this book now? What. What it made you realize, hey, we've got a problem here, and we really need some help and some hope navigating this really difficult transition season.
Dr. Kathy Koch: Right. Well, like you, when I'm out and about, doing my ministry, I'm hearing it all. You know, I'm hearing from the adult children who have been disappointed in their parents or confused by parents or angry with parents. And I'm hearing from the parents of adult children that, they're stressed and depressed and anxious and concerned and trying to figure out what in the world went wrong. That their children are either no contact or just very difficult. I hear more about the difficulties than I do about the no contact. Part of me thinks that that's been exaggerated by the media, although I know that it is happening. I, again, I'm motivated to serve and help and speak hope and help into people's lives just as you are. And my audience has grown up. You know, my ministry is 35 years old. I've been a published author for almost 20 years, which is just ridiculously amazing. And so, you know, the moms and dads who started out with me when their children were toddlers and it was bedtime battles, now it is, you know, these issues. And you know what, Jessica? The other reason that I wrote the book is I come from a really healthy multigenerational family. I grew up kitty corner from one set of grandparents and my dad cut a hole in the fence. And we grew up three blocks from my dad's parents and so went to church with aunts, uncles, cousins and grandparents, had many, many Sunday lunches. And so I know the benefit of the multi generational family. And let me remind our listeners that God ordained the family before he ordained the church, like it matters greatly to him who were connected to, you know, in a blood relational way. And so he's grieving. So therefore let's step into the mess and see if we can offer people some solutions.
Dr. Jessica Peck: I agree with you, Dr. Kathy I hear a lot more about the difficulties, the challenges, and really it gives me hope though, because people have a longing for connection and relationship. And I come from the other side of the spectrum as you. I come from a family with a lot of generational dysfunction. A, lot of that is tied to addiction and just the relationship patterns that come with that that I didn't learn about until I became a nurse practitioner. But families like yours give me hope for my family because I know the longing of that and to know that, that, that is real, that is attainable, it gives me hope. And one of the interesting distinctions that you make in this, that I think is a good ground setting, is that you say that parent is our noun, but it transitions and it's no longer always our verb. How can we use that as kind of a level setting here to give us some perspective about stepping into this stage?
Dr. Kathy Koch: Yeah, thanks for asking that question. Parent will always be your noun. Child will always be the child's noun. Those things don't change and you need to own that and believe in that and pray about that, even if they are having less, communication with you. But we don't parent as a verb unless we're given permission to do so. We have to be willing to transition, to be a guide, consultant, cheerleader, mentor, ah, leader. But we don't parent unless we're invited to do so, because what the people are telling us is that it feels very disrespectful when we do that they are now adults. They might not act like it. let's own that. You know, they might still be living at home, but they've reached that age where they consider themselves adults. And legally they might be that. And so we need to step off or step away and listen, longer, as you've already implied, and you know, parent differently. And it's, it's hard. And it's especially hard for moms who have been so invested in their children and involved in all of the business. And what adult children are telling me is that they want parents to be aware of their business, but not in their business.
Dr. Jessica Peck: That's so hard to do. I mean, as I said, I'm in this life stage right now. I, I actually, I tell my kids, I'm like, this is really like quasi adulthood. Yes, you are 18. Yes, you can have all of these rights and independences, and you're doing these things on your own. And yet I'm still financing your life. So how do we transition here? What are some of the conflicts that you see? You mentioned some of the disagreements. What do you see rising to the top? What are the top sources of friction or conflict in that relationship?
Dr. Kathy Koch: That's a great question, Jessica. I would say that, the disrespect that adult children feel when we step into their space without being invited, kind of going back to what I was just saying. In other words, you stopping at their apartment. I don't think most of our listeners would stop by a friend's apartment without asking if that would be okay, but they do it with their children because, well, they're my children and they shouldn't have any problem with me ever stopping by. But you might be stopping by at an inappropriate moment. So it's the lack of permission, it's the lack of request that I hear a lot about. Like, why didn't they text and say, hey, I'd like to stop by one day this week with some, homemade muffins. You know, which day would be good? So I think that's a huge issue. blaming. Huge, issue. Not, forgiving huge issue. You know, we can talk about those things. Making, assumptions, I think is huge. You know, they didn't call me back, so they don't love me. No, don't go to that dark workplace right away. Maybe they loaned somebody their phone and they don't even have their phone and they didn't even get your message. That's very true with grandchildren. It's possible that your daughter in law lent her phone to her daughter and she didn't get your message yet that you'd love to stop by with blueberry muffins because you know it's one of her favorites and you're upset that she hasn't immediately said, that's a great idea, thanks for your love. Maybe she doesn't even have the message yet. Let's not go to that dark place and assume that we're not wanted or we're not loved.
Dr. Jessica Peck: It's. It, again, it is so challenging. I think one of the things that's challenging for parents in this generation, Dr. Kathy is that we are really kind of subtly trained and influenced to raise our kids as products for the world to be the display of what kind of parent we were. And when we have all the control, it feels a lot more comfortable. But all of a sudden we don't have that control anymore and they may do something that is embarrassing to us. I'm just going to say it, just be really honest. Or we, oh, I don't want people to think of that. And it's more, we think more about ourselves and how that reflects on ourselves than really caring about meeting them where they are. How can we push against that and accept that we're moving to a model of having influence over them and not authority and control?
The Privilege of Influence: Releasing Control and Embracing a New Parenting Paradigm with Adult Children
That's super hard.
Dr. Kathy Koch: It is super hard. And I'm really grateful that you're being vulnerable to share that because it's absolutely true. I'm not sure we had control when they were little, to be honest.
Dr. Jessica Peck: That is so true.
Dr. Kathy Koch: But we, you know, we think we did and of course we have more. But now we get the privilege of influence. And could I just say to everyone listening, influence is better than nothing. And influence is actually way better than control. control is do it my way. And influence is, you know, what do you think would be best? My recommendation would be this, you know, what do you think would work well for you? So beginning to release them to be, independent thinkers and where they come to us and they say, you know, dad, you know, if I remember right, when, when I was in middle school, you know, you struggled with your boss but you ultimately decided to stay at that job. You know, I'm struggling. Not sure that I'm being led. Well, not sure I have advancement possibilities. You know, how did you decide to stay put where you were like, what an opportunity for you to speak life into your son or even to, into a son in law or daughter or whatever about the truth. So I think we become satisfied or we see that as a glorious thing, that we can be influential. And I think we earn that right. And we earn the right by being a role mod model, by being quiet when we should be quiet, by taking advantage of teachable moments, by, talking about all the things we have in common and avoiding the things where we don't have things in common so that there's, you know, less disagreement. And. And I think, again, you know, I'm going to be brave here and say this, Jessica. we can't idolize our kids. M. One of the things that happens when children are younger in particular, you know, you're exactly right. We turn them into performance machines. And. And it's their job to make me look good. In fact, most helicopter parents and I address helicoptering in this book because there is data to suggest that if you over parent, it's harder for the children to stay connected to you when they're adults because they assume that you can't parent any other way. Now, those of you that are who are listening, God bless you for being here. You were doing what you thought was the best thing to do. You were protecting your children. You know, there's a biology test. You want to study, right? But don't spill your juice. Hey, you want to go practice in the backyard? You know, soccer tryouts are tomorrow. You said you wanted to practice dribbling. You know, right now would be a good idea before dinner. And you did all of those things to help them, but you also did those things to protect your reputation. And this is what we know to be true. And people don't like to admit that this was a hard book to write because of this reason, but it is true that it was our reputation that was on the line. And. And you. You've got to release that this is not about you looking good. This is about you blessing your children with truth. That will help them be content and, yes, successful in the relationships, which would include education and career. So I hope that's coming across all right. You know, love them. Well, don't. Don't expect them to perform for you. Don't worship them. And Jessica, you know, like, I love afr. You guys know what I know? And that is that we're designed to worship. We're created to worship. We're created to worship God. And if we don't worship God, I'm sure you agree we will worship someone or something.
Dr. Jessica Peck: That void is there.
Dr. Kathy Koch: And marriage.
Dr. Jessica Peck: You're so right. I'm gonna hold you right there because we are already at our first break, but I could talk to you for a long time. Like I said, I'm being transparent because I am living this and learning this as I go and I appreciate people who are willing to speak to truths. Thanks for not being chatgpt for me and just telling me what I want to hear. We'll have more help and hope and tough truths that'll be helpful for you right on the other side of this break, more with Dr. Kathy Koch
Listener Support Appeal for American Family Radio and Dr. Nurse Mama Podcast
Hello, I'm Jessica peck, host of Dr. Nurse Mama. Did you know that this content is listener supported? Without people like you, this podcast would not exist. And that's why we need you. A generous monthly gift of any amount will help sustain American Family Radio and specifically this podcast. Please consider becoming a monthly financial partner today by visiting afr.net/give that's afr.net/give
Focus on Love and Relationship: Navigating Adult Children Dynamics and Finding Peace Amidst Family Conflict
All About Love by Steven Curtis Chapman: Me yeah. We got CDs T& videos, radio and TV shows, conferences, retreats and seminars. We got books on, magazines for read on everything from A to Z and a web to surf from anywhere we are But I hope with all this is information buzzing through our brains and we will not let our hearts forget the most important thing is love love love love love it's all about love love love love love. Everything else comes out of this Nothing any higher on the L.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Friends that is All About Love by Steven Curtis Chapman. And recently I was able to sit down with Steven and Mary Beth Chapman about their new book Still Here. And they talked about their marriage and being married for decades now, the ups and downs and parenting adult children. And that's what we're talking about Today with expert Dr. Kathy Koch And we're talking about her new book that is going to equip you to be able to look at what is the what do we do in this life stage. I'm right there with you and this book, Resolve Conflict and find peace and hope with your adult children. This is a game changer. I hear so many parents talking about the conflict that is in their family and especially conflict between adult children and their parents. And they want to have a good relationship. It's just hard.
The Parental Role Shift: Embracing Influence Over Control and Normalizing Failure in Adult Children Relationships
One of the hardest things about having that relationship is that the relationship changes before our parental instincts do. And so it's almost like we're doing things backwards and we may still see that child we carried and raised and disciplined. I remember seeing the movie Father of the Bride back in the 90s and how, you know, this little girl is telling her dad, I'm getting married and all of a sudden she's 5 years old. I still See my kids like that. These are kids that we carried, we raised, we disciplined, we protected, we prayed over, we. We gave everything for. But now, all of a sudden, that child is now an adult who has the responsibility and freedom to make their own decisions. And Dr. Kathy is emphasizing a really powerful distinction in this book and in this message today that parents are always going to be parents, but you don't get to parent your adult children unless you're invited to. And right before the break, Dr. Kathy we were talking about influence and how you said influence is better than control. And you were speaking some really important truths about not. Not idolizing our children. That can be really, really hard to do. And so I want to let you finish your thought on that.
Dr. Kathy Koch: Yeah, thank you. Maybe what we. Maybe what would benefit our listeners would be, you know, how do we know if we're idolizing our kids?
Dr. Jessica Peck: That's good, right?
Dr. Kathy Koch: Like. Like one of the things I said was that you treat them like performers and that you expect them to make you look good. And I. And I would say it this way as well. if they have a bad day, you have a bad day. And if they have a good day, you have a good day that's being intertwined in ways that are not healthy. and the pressure they feel. When I interviewed people and read what I read to prepare to write this book, Jessica, so many young men and women said that they're so afraid to disappoint their moms. In particular, it's the mom. And so then they don't tell us what's going on. If they're afraid that they'll disappoint us and make us angry or fearful, then they may not come to us for the influence that desperate to provide. They may not indicate that a relationship has gone sour or that they got a bad review at work or that they're not sure that they're in the right church anymore. And how do you choose a church, Mom? I've never chosen a church except this one time, and I didn't get it right. So how do I choose a church? Like, if you want them to come to you, then you have to be open to them, admitting that they need you, which means that they'll have to admit that they're messing up in some way, perhaps, and they need to know that you're not going to panic and that you're not going to make them feel bad for making you feel bad. It can't be about you. It's not about you. Amen.
Dr. Jessica Peck: amen. Dr. Kathy you're so right in that. Because what I see is kind of what you were talking about earlier. That inner monologue that just starts going 90 miles an hour. And when you find out that your kids haven't shared a struggle with you, they haven't told you something, all of a sudden, often it is all about you. How could they not tell me this? How could they hide this from me? How could they have the poor character to keep this secret and to struggle and not come to me and know that I love them? And it's I, I, I, I, I. But you just gave a, really important shift in the mind. It's not because they're trying to hide something from you. It's because they care so much about what you think of them and they can't bear to live with that disappointment. And we've got to normalize failure. Dr. Kathy that is something I keep saying. We're not perfect parents. How can we normalize failure and, and make it when this happens, not if this happens, but when you struggle, come to me because I' struggle to.
Dr. Kathy Koch: Oh, like, teach it, preach it. Like, that's excellent. So, you know, I wrote a whole book about raising resilient kids a couple of years ago because we have to help our children walk out of the valley. they are going to fall down, they are going to earn a less than great grade. They're not going to make a team if they're courageous enough to try out. I've met some people who don't try out for fear that they'll disappoint their dad. so no, when, if you're listening to us and you, and you're not launching your kids yet, I'm glad you're here because you can begin to transition when they're in high school. In fact, let's remind everybody, Jessica, you've been launching your kids your whole life. You went from the crib to the toddler bed to the bigger bed. You went from the three wheel trike where they couldn't hurt themselves even if they fell off. And then the two wheeler with the training wheels. And then you took the training wheels off, but you held onto the bike and they were only allowed in the cul de sac or the driveway, you know, and now they're driving. You know, you have transitioned them, your whole life. That's, that's your motivation, is that they would grow up, I pray, and that they would mature up. And, you know, you've delighted in the progress they' I hope. And, now this is obviously Just another step. But if you're listening and your kids are younger, start now. Give them the freedom to walk out of the valley on their own and clap when they do, and celebrate the fact that they didn't collapse under the weight of a mistake. And I would say, although you're using the word failure correctly, sometimes we don't need to use that word. Failure is not as common as simply mistakes. And mistakes don't mean we're stupid. It might mean, our character was not healthy. It might mean that we, you know, didn't apply our effort. We. We didn't proofread. We didn't apologize to our boss, and therefore he lost respect for us. And therefore, the next time we made a mistake, we were fired. And. And that was. We were earned that. We earned being fired. Don't overprotect your kids from learning the things that they need to learn. They're 18, they're 24, and they lost a job. How powerful for you to step in and say, hey, Kevan, would you be. Would you be willing to listen to my perspective? Like, what I've noticed about you, you in the last year or two? I think it could help you in the future, like, earn the right to be heard. I'm rambling a little bit, but, man, all of that, all of that.
Building Relational Capital: Normalizing Mistakes and Fostering Connection with Adult Children Through Prayer and Humility
I pray that's valuable. It's so important.
Dr. Jessica Peck: It's so true. And in the continued spirit of transparency, I'll tell you, this is something I struggled with because part of my dysfunction and growing up, my coping mechanism, Dr. Kathy was perfectionism. I had to be perfect all the time. And so failure was so scary. And, my kids have been calling me out on that and saying, hey, you're way too hard on yourself. You're such a regretter, and you regret this choice, and you regret that you did this. And so I just had this, this revelation. I thought, okay, I am only going to regret sin if I sin, if I intentionally violate God's word. If I am, you know, really my heart is in rebellion, and I act out of anger or pride that I'm going to regret. If it's a mistake, then I just want to learn from that. Am I learning from it or am I having an adventure? Or both? Sometimes it is both. And I agree with you. Sometimes it's okay to normalize mistakes. Hey, you didn't have, like, life experience. You've never been in this situation before. Like, you made a financial, ah, decision that was. Has turned out to be poor. Okay, great. Let's find a way out of it. Because in this age of cancel culture. Dr. Kathy I think kids are living under this constant anxiety of, what happens if we mess up and what that response is like. How can we continue to soften that disclosure and continue to invite them to come to us? Us.
Dr. Kathy Koch: We have to be available without our phone. We, we can't be the ones to step away. So we, you know, we text occasionally. We, ask if we could FaceTime. Like, maybe they don't want us to come over. Maybe they're embarrassed by the way they keep their apartment and they don't want your, you know, the housekeeper mom, if you will, to come by and be satisfied with what you have rather than always negating that and wishing that you had more. Like if they'll FaceTime with you, celebrate the Lord for that, that, if they'll text, but they don't want to talk to you on the phone. Like, that's generational. And sadly, you might have to, you know, get used to that. And you know what, Jessica? It. None of it's possible without prayer. You know, I mean, we could talk for a whole hour on that. You know, to transition from a very involved parent to a less involved parent of an adult, takes. Takes a change of heart, to the Holy Spirit to lead, to guide us, to inspire us, to be loving in the way that they can receive it. to pray for our kids and our grandkids, that they would be well, that they would choose wisely, that they would make decisions that honor the Lord. that if they've, if they appear to have been moved further from the God of the Bible, that you would pray them closer to Him. And I'll say this, and we can talk about this more if you'd like, but I hear more, parents of adult kids complain about their kids not being in church. Church. I wish that the emphasis would be that they're not in a dynamic relationship with Jesus Christ. Amen.
Dr. Kathy Koch: As, as important as the church is, and I, and I want them to find a good church. This is a, this is a difficult age group. Churches don't do well traditionally with the graduated, young adult, if you will. there's, there's not a lot of ministries for the 20 to 30 year old that are vibrant that I have found. if you've got a church with one man, I'd love to know about it. But I think, I, I would like us to be more concerned about the relationship with Christ. Christ, like, did they ever have one? Can I just go there? Like, did they ever have one? Did they borrow your faith? And, let's pray them into a relationship with God that transforms them. And let's pray that he would help us know when to speak and when to listen.
Dr. Jessica Peck: That's so tough because being in church is the outward image and the other is the heart. And that's what we need to care about. And I think it's hard for a generation of parents who have grown up with more control of their child's image than ever before. And we, we see this with parents stewarding their child's digital footprint, and they can image craft and create whatever kind of image that they want for their child. And I've. I've met with a lot of adult children now, Dr. Kathy whose parents grew up posting them on social media. And they look back, and the story that their parents have told is not the story that they want to tell. It's not the story, the image, the way that they see their life going. And I know.
Choosing Battles Wisely: Focusing on Character, Progress, and Healthy Boundaries in Adult Child Relationships
Oof. I am. I am right there with them. This is something that I've really had to, to give up. Some of things that I've done is really tell the story with them together and think, is this moment worth preserving? Is this moment worth remembering? Is this consistent with the way that they see themselves, with the way that we're teaching them, that God has made them and that God. The ways that God has gifted them, enabled them? And sometimes when you're in that transition and you're having that. That struggle and that conflict. Dr. Kathy one of the things I know you talk about a lot, and I agree with so much, and it doesn't matter if you're in this adult stage or if you're in the preteen stage or even the toddler stage, when you're on the struggle bus, you need to choose your battles. And sometimes I think as adult parents, when we ever. We don't see them as often. So as soon as we see them, we're like, oh, I have a list of things I want to address with you. Here's my list of grievances A, B, C and D. And by the way, you're not calling me enough. And you're not doing this, and you're not going to church. You're not doing this. We've got to choose our battles. What is the most important to us? So speak some words of life to me and to everyone else who's listening.
Dr. Kathy Koch: Well, man, there's so much I could say. Thanks for all of that. Let me back up a bit and just talk about social media. If all you've posted about your kids is the positive real, then this is one of the reasons that they think that they're performing for you and that they're afraid to admit that they're, that they're struggling. And so, I would encourage you to post less, perhaps to ask permission to post and to post about the victory, after a valley experience. That would be huge to the people who follow. You would love to know that. And your kids need to see that they haven't embarrassed you. In fact, they've inspired you because they didn't stay down in the valley. They stood up and walked out. I think that's huge. so I would mention that I think, oh man, my mind is rambling inside.
Dr. Jessica Peck: it's so true. I agree with you on that. I wish that parents would post about their kids character instead of just their accomplishments because that's such a comparison thing. You know, it's like they won this award and those things are worthy of celebration. But if you post character like, hey, my kid really, really showed perseverance today. My kids showed self control. Those are the kinds of images that you can have. And then when you go on what we were talking about too. What I talked about too, because I'm rambling all over the place because I'm all over the place with this. But so much important stuff to cover. We were talking about choosing your battles. How do you choose your.
Dr. Kathy Koch: Thank you. Sorry. Yeah, yeah. I appreciate you reminding me of that. And let me say yes, yes and yes. What are your family values? What matters mostly to you? and absolutely you need to release some things and you need to ask the Lord to show them who in their life could help them with that if it's not you. Let's pray them into relationships with godly people, with, with people who are more mature than they are that they might be willing to follow if they don't want to follow us right now. And let's get out the green pen. Like we walk into their apartment with a red pen or we meet them in a restaurant with that list. You know, what about this, this and this? You know, I, I swear, my friend, if we would could find the good things and talk about the good things, if we would notice the progress that they've made. Don't look for perfection. It's not realistic. Jesus is perfect. We're not. Look for progress. Look for hope and talk about it. Talk about the things that you notice with their attitudes and with their relationships and with the way that they're overcoming the challenges, that they've been brave to talk to a supervisor, that they've bravely looked at other educational options, that they have bravely gone out, out and tried to meet someone of the opposite gender to have an actual date with. celebrate those things, get out a green pen and focus on what is right.
Dr. Jessica Peck: You know, one of the things that I did when I was in a season of struggle, as every parent child dynamic will go through at some point, every healthy parent child dynamic will go through struggle. And I wrote about this in my book and challenged other parents to do it, too. Dr. Kathy with, but was to keep a journal every day for something that you are grateful for in that relationship and then, then share that with them, say for the last month. These are the things that I've been grateful for about you every day. Because sometimes it can just feel like, you know, they're not keeping their room clean. They're not, you know, whatever age of stage of parenting. It's just like you said, we're so much freer with our criticism than we are with our praise. But just randomly texting them or intentionally texting them every day, something that you appreciate about them, something they're doing really well, something that they are accomplishing that you see, see a character trait that you're developing. You're going to buy yourself a lot of relational capital. Then they're not going to want to pick up the phone if all they know you're going to do is nag them about, I know I haven't gone to church, or I know I haven't fixed this financial problem, or I know I haven't, you know, changed whatever it is, or cut my hair, whatever it is that you feel like is that thing. We got to choose our battles. Now, listen, when we come back, we're going to talk a lot more about this. And one of the things that I hear the most is how do we balance truth and grace? How do we give unconditional love without unconditional acceptance? Well, we may not be able to get the Nobel Peace Prize, but we're going to move forward with some help and hope that is grounded in biblical worldview. We'll be right back with Dr. Kathy Koch
Here's Dr. Ben Witherington from the American Family Studios documentary The God Who Speaks
Here's Dr. Ben Witherington from the American Family Studios documentary the God who Speaks.
Dr. Ben Witherington: Here's the most important point. Before looking at our gospels, most ancient people believed that how you died, most revealed your character. Now, this is a problem, because how did Jesus die? He died by the most shameful way to die. In antiquity through death on a cross. So one of the strong motivations for telling the tale the way that the New Testament writers told it is to make clear that though this would appear to be the most horrific and shameful death ever, that yet he was still not only a good person, but he was God's person on top of that. And that after his death, God vindicated him. Visit thegodwhospeaks.org.
Holy Spirit Come by Patrick Mayberry: I'm coming with a heart of worship. I'm bringing in a brand new song. I'm ready to see the unthinkable I'm ready for a miracle. Heart's praying for fresh encountering souls Looking to the living God I'm ready for real revival. O Holy Spirit. M holy spirit, Come.
Balancing Truth and Grace: Navigating Adult Children Relationships with Unconditional Love and Healthy Boundaries
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Dr. Jessica Peck: welcome back, friends. That is Holy Spirit, come. By Patrick Mayberry and you may be feeling that today, you may be in a season of struggle with your adult children. I'm talking to Dr. Kathy Koch today about her new book, book Resolve Conflict and Find Peace and Hope with Adult Children. This is something I hear about everywhere I go. Parents and adults who are struggling to find that healthy relationship. And if that is you, I congratulate you. I thank you. I applaud you. Because if you are struggling, that means your heart is still longing for connection. And I am so grateful for relationships that still even have that little bit of hurt there that aren't completely estranged, completely bitter, completely cold. And we're talking today about how can we. How can we parent better when we get to that stage? And Dr. Kathy has told us, no matter what stage of parenting you're in, you can start now. And we're talking through that now. Dr. Kathy as I said, one of the biggest things that I hear is how do we hold truth and grace and at the same time, how do we move into a space where we give unconditional love but not unconditional acceptance? How do we lead with love and. And, and not fear or anger when it feels like the stakes are so high, how do we step into that space and try to balance those two things? I think that's the most common question that I hear from parents of adult children. Children.
Dr. Kathy Koch: Yeah. I'm not surprised. It's very real and really hard. So we pray for ourselves and, you know, how have any of you ever done it? Like, it's not easy when they're eight to have unconditional love and to present both truth and grace. I'm so grateful that the Bible doesn't teach us that we have to unconditionally like them. You know, we don't. And we don't have to like everything they do. we don't have to point out the things that we don't like necessarily. But again, I think we pray carefully for ourselves and we, we are more positive than negative. And we maybe ask them, would you, Would you like my perspective? you know, if. If you're a believer and they know that, they know that your perspective is going to come from the word of God, and they may not want to hear it. And I, I wonder if we would sometimes say, you know, I've. I'm. I'm noticing some patterns. I've. You know, sometimes we have blind spots. I sure have blind spots about my life. And I wonder if, if you're, you know, are you open to something I've noticed that I think could really help you at work or help you with your. Your relationship with Jennifer or whatever. I think we invite ourselves to be heard, and if they say, no, not yet, then we go, okay, and we change the subject. when we pivot to something like their favorite birthday party when they were little, I mean, it can be something that's just not important in the moment. But I would say that I would also think, you know, Jessica, we could teach them. A lot of children of all ages tell me, you know, Dr. Kathy my parents tell me what they do, and they yell at me when I don't do it.
Dr. Jessica Peck: It.
Dr. Kathy Koch: I wish they would teach me how, so I would encourage us, in all ages. But this is also true. If they're 19 and 20, they're dealing with independence for the first time. They're dealing with car payments and insurance and, and seeking a new provider and trying to figure out how to make a, you know, an apartment rent payment. There are new things that they're dealing with and they don't necessarily need to be told. Man, I'm, I'm so sad about your choice or disappointed in your decision. But what if we taught them how do we reason? How do we make the decisions we make? How do you decide what to spend your money on? And how do you shop insurance if you feel like your car insurance is too high? I think we could teach better and then they would receive the truth better. I, I hope that comes across okay.
Dr. Jessica Peck: It. These are tough truths because they are such sensitive issues. But I think, you know, as I said before, in an age of chat GBT where, we see, I see even increasingly parents and grandparents going to chat box for relationship advice, and that can be such a Dangerous space, because chatbots are designed to reinforce your worldview, to know your preferences, and to tell you what you want to hear. So I'm grateful, Dr. Kathy that you and I are both sitting here saying, no, this is tough truths, but this is. This is how to say it. And I think that there's a lot of parents who, you know, who can really lean harder on the love side than the truth side, because you said something really important. If you have raised your. Your kids to know a biblical worldview, and they know exactly how you see the world, and you have told them a million times about what you believe and what God's rules are, they know that. They inherently know that. And God's word will not return void. And that's not saying you have to affirm their life choices that you disagree with. But how do you also show them love in that and have some healthy boundaries on both sides? Because sometimes parents may put boundaries and say, okay, we can cannot affirm this. We cannot participate in this. We cannot support this. But also sometimes kids are going to put boundaries on us too, and say, okay, this is a space in my life that you're not welcome. How do we start to navigate those still with an overarching us, showing them love? Because we are the parents, and we've got to lead in that way.
Dr. Kathy Koch: First Corinthians 13 can be taken out of the marriage ceremony and put into life. You know, love endures and love is true. So we say to our kids, you know, I can't. I can't call you by your preferred pronoun because that would be a lie, and I don't lie by standard. You know that about me. so the answer is no. And I would pray that you would understand that, you know, my love for you remains. You're my child. I'll never not love you. But part of love is true truth. Part of love is teaching what is best for you. You know, your whole life, we said, don't run out into the road. You wanted to be in the road, we said, don't. Why? Because we love you. And that's not going to change. And you have to decide now that you're an adult whether or not you can handle that. We still have that. That platform that we, you know, raise you with, if you will, or we don't. The platform through which we relate. However you would say that, I think that becomes really important. Love remains. Love is true. Love endures. Love is patient. Love is honest. We need to know that. We need to pray that into ourselves Even if we're not treated that way, we treat others that way. And this is when you know, Jessica, some parents who are listening, if you need to take a break, take a break. You know, if your kids have not gone, no contact. I'm not saying you should go no contact, but you can take a break. If they have treated you disrespectfully the last four times they visited with you, you. And it's breaking your heart, you can take a break and you can say to your son, hey, I. You know, we're. We're not available this Friday night. And if he says, why not? You can. You don't have to give him a reason. Or you can say, man, my heart just needs a break. But what do you mean? Well, we love you, and yet it's really been hard and challenging to be with you because you've treated. Or this ideally. This is the dad speaking. You've treated your mom with disrespect. You've not let her finish her sentences. You have called her foolish to her faith space. It's just not unhealthy for us. We're going to take a break and. And you can do that now. One of the recommendations I make in the book is that find someone to give all that love to. I think one of the things that's so hard, Jessica, is especially the moms. You guys are nurturers. And dads, of course, also love their. Their children who become adults. You've got all this love to share, and it's so painful for you that they're not receiving it. But how many people in our churches are lonely? Every single one of us knows people in our churches where the children and the grandchildren don't have that adult. Because they're either across the country, they're deceased, or they've gone on no contact. But you, hey, could I attend your daughter's piano lesson? I love taking piano lessons and I love to support her. Or you invite them over for Mother's Day and you become the surrogate. It's not the same. Loving somebody else isn't the same as loving your kid. But to share who you are with other people would build up other people, which would then build up the church and change the culture. So I. I made a very strong statement in my book about not sitting at home and twiddling your thumbs and living with regards to regret, but finding someone who will receive you so that that part of you that that need to love and that need to share is met and you don't give up on your kids, but you also don't let them control you like they're trying to control. Yeah, they're trying to control you. Don't let that happen.
Dr. Jessica Peck: That, again, this is just such a tender space, and I can just almost feel it as we're talking, knowing that, you know, there are people who are just, just really hurting. And what I see a lot, Dr. Kathy is when all of these things that you're describing, these situations and they say, okay, we need to take a break.
Seeking Wise Counsel and Taking Accountability: Navigating Conflict and Strengthening Adult Child Relationships
Whether you set boundaries, whether your kids have said no contact or estrangement, which, by the way, I think no contact should be reserved for situations of abuse. Absolutely. There are reasons for that. But many times when we see this no contact or estrangement, we see people just living in, in, in silence and not sharing with anybody, not going to seek wise counsel. They're just of living in secrecy and shame. And, you know, it's just kind of a tough topic like, how are your kids doing? Oh, they're, they're fine. You know, I, I don't agree with their choices, but, you know, we're just gonna love them anyway, and you just move on. How can. Not everybody needs to know every piece of dirty laundry, but how can we move out of those shadows and start to seek wise counsel and share this burden with other believers who will encourage us and exhort us to good works?
Dr. Kathy Koch: Yeah, it's such a great question. Adult children, by the way, believe that most prayer chains are gossip milk. So be very careful, make sure that you're sharing with people who are trustworthy, people who will share your confidence and will keep it private. But, absolutely. I'm so glad you brought that up. We're not meant to carry this alone, so maybe there are family members. But again, you need to be careful that you don't necessarily let an aunt and an uncle know how their niece or nephew is treating you. They maybe don't need to know that. but yeah, friends, possibly your pastor. yeah, absolutely. Don't, don't live in this alone. Journal. If, if you process well by journaling, talk out loud as you walk. If you are an auditory processor like I am, and, and, that would be good for you. Take a break, rest, pay attention to the Sabbath. Make sure that you're strong in the things of the faith and, again, that they're not going to control you in that way.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, the other side of that in walking with accountability is, is taking accountability because there may be things that you did to hurt your kids. Didn't see. Maybe you were really well intentioned, but your child has a very different perception of how that went down. How do you be, make yourself open, even, even if it's just 1% of the conflict, or maybe it's more than that. How do you own accountability and be open to. Maybe I did mess up here.
Dr. Kathy Koch: No, that's really good. I appreciate you bringing that up. Yeah. To, to listen longer, to say to a son or a daughter. Okay, I want to, I want to hear your perspective. And I'm, I'm not going to interrupt you. Like, you make a commitment to not interrupt. So you meet to learn, not to share.
The Power of Listening and Humility: Understanding Perspectives and Fostering Connection in Adult Child Dynamics
You meet not to teach. You don't meet to persuade. You're meeting to listen. So you go into that coffee date, if you will, with that goal and you, you maybe ask clarification questions. But ideally they speak and they're allowed to speak. As hurtful as it might be. My memory of this event is that this happened. And then you ask permission, may I share my perspective? And maybe that happens at the same meaning and maybe it doesn't. That would depend on a lot of factors. But their perception is right according to them and your perception is right according to you. And so you agree to disagree or you say, oh, I can see how that would have come across that way. Because most of us, you know, when, when you parented when they were younger, you didn't explain everything. You had a reason up in your head and in your heart about why that boyfriend was a bad boyfriend for your daughter. Daughter. And now she resents that for what, whatever reason. It's five years later, she's lonely and she's like, if you wouldn't have rejected Jake, I. My life would be so different. And you're tempted to say, well, do you not remember Jake and how he treated you? Yeah, your life would be different. It would be worse. You know, again, you look for the opportunity to say that again, if that's your, if that's an accurate perception. So this is what's really hard. Right? So we sometimes I think, you know, we're going to agree to just agree, agree. And this is what I say in the book. Sometimes you just talk about the things that you agree to. You talk about memories. Memories keep the family alive. So talk about the past, talk about hope for the future, and maybe you leave the rest alone. But if you can come to a place of agreement, that would be beautiful. And that's going to take prayer listening longer. And your humility. Right. The parent has to be humble enough to say, okay, was I in that space? Was I arrogant? Was I controlling? Did I not trust my daughter? And that's why I was demanding. Come on. There are reasons that kids have gone no contact. And one of the reasons is that we were in conflict with them. And we look back and go, oh, our life was so rosy. We never had conflict. Come on. You know that's a lie. and so let's be honest about that.
Dr. Jessica Peck: I know. That's what I say all the time. You know, we can't love who our kids used to be more than we have hope in who they are becoming.
Finding Hope in God: Trusting Divine Love and Grace in Messy Family Conflicts with Adult Children
And Dr. Kathy I could talk to you a lot longer about this. We are at our last minute here, but what would you like to say to leave our listeners with some final words of hope?
Dr. Kathy Koch: Put hope in God. Put hope in God. He loves them more than you ever will. He loves you more than you can love yourself. Put your hope in God. He is faithful. Look back and recognize how faithful he's been to you. Don't hope in your kids and don't hope in yourself. You hope in God, and He is worthy of your hope. Ask him and watch him work on your behalf.
Dr. Jessica Peck: We have amen. Romans 15:13 is one of my favorites. That, God would fill you with hope. And that is the tagline for my show, hope for healthy families. Not perfect families, but healthy families. And also In Romans chapter 12, it says, if possible, as far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all. And we are. We are responsible for our words and our attitudes and our own humility and our willingness to forgive for our faithfulness and loving our kids unconditionally. But we are not responsible for controlling their response. And Psalm 46:10 reminds us, Be still and know that I am God. And maybe that's just what you need to do today is just to be still and to know that he is God and he is working. And he who began a good work is faithful to complete it. The goal is not a perfect work. It's connection and humility and healthy boundaries and unconditional love. And ultimately is trusting God with the adult children that he has entrusted to us. I encourage you, if you're in the middle of a relationship, struggle to get a copy of this book, to prayerfully consider it, to continue to pray, and don't lose hope. And as you do, I pray over you as I always do, that the Lord will bless you and keep you and make his face shine upon you even in the middle of messy family conflict. I'LL see time you next Next time we'd like to thank our sponsors, including PreBorn.
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Jeff Chamblee: opinions expressed in this broadcast may not necessarily reflect those of the American Family association or American Family Radio.
Dr. Kathy Koch talks with Jessica about strategies to resolve conflict and find peace and hope with adult children.
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Chapters:
(00:00) Sponsor Message: Supporting Preborn Network Clinics and Pro-Life Efforts for Mothers and Babies
(02:09) Navigating Family Conflict: Understanding the Transition to Parenting Adult Children and Setting Healthy Boundaries
(05:29) Expert Insights on Resolving Conflict with Adult Children: Shifting from Control to Influence and Building Healthy Relationships
(13:12) The Privilege of Influence: Releasing Control and Embracing a New Parenting Paradigm with Adult Children
(16:47) Listener Support Appeal for American Family Radio and Dr. Nurse Mama Podcast
(17:30) Focus on Love and Relationship: Navigating Adult Children Dynamics and Finding Peace Amidst Family Conflict
(19:12) The Parental Role Shift: Embracing Influence Over Control and Normalizing Failure in Adult Children Relationships
(24:50) Building Relational Capital: Normalizing Mistakes and Fostering Connection with Adult Children Through Prayer and Humility
(29:02) Choosing Battles Wisely: Focusing on Character, Progress, and Healthy Boundaries in Adult Child Relationships
(34:14) Here's Dr. Ben Witherington from the American Family Studios documentary The God Who Speaks
(36:09) Balancing Truth and Grace: Navigating Adult Children Relationships with Unconditional Love and Healthy Boundaries
(44:54) Seeking Wise Counsel and Taking Accountability: Navigating Conflict and Strengthening Adult Child Relationships
(47:21) The Power of Listening and Humility: Understanding Perspectives and Fostering Connection in Adult Child Dynamics
(49:26) Finding Hope in God: Trusting Divine Love and Grace in Messy Family Conflicts with Adult Children
(51:22) Sponsor Message: Supporting Preborn's Mission to Rescue Babies and Support Young Mothers
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