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: Hope for healthy Families here on American Family Radio. Here's your host, professor, pediatric nurse practitioner and mom of four, Dr. Jessica Peck.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, hey there friends and welcome to my favorite time of day getting to spend time with you prescribing Hope for healthy families. I hope that you're having a great Sunday start to your week, whatever you may be doing. And I want to thank you for listening in. It gives me so much hope to know and and to hear from my listeners, to see you all and to know there are people who are deeply invested in their own spiritual health and the spiritual health of their families, of the people they love. Thank you, thank you, thank you so much for that. And we are going to talk about something that's really important today that I've been talking about a lot and it may not sound super exciting. If you just going to talk about theology, you think why, why are we talking about theology? Because I am a nurse practitioner. I have a lot of letters after my name and my running joke is that it spells N E R D. I am definitely a learning nerd. I love to learn about things and I have a lot of science degrees but I don't have a theology degree. I did not go to seminary. That doesn't mean that that's not important, that we don't need a good working theology. And right now we are l the day and age of information overload. According to the best stats that I saw, there's about 500 hours of content loaded up to YouTube every minute. That is a lot of voices who are competing to get in our ear, who are telling us about theology. And this really does come back to the family, because the question for you today is, if you're a parent, what does your child believe about God? What does your child believe about their faith, about the Bible? What do you believe? And it may sound like a pretty simple question, but it's actually one of the most important questions that we can ask in our families because eventually our children are going to encounter questions that we cannot answer for them. They wonder really tough questions like, why does God allow suffering? Or how do I know that I know that I know the Bible is true? Or why does Christianity say this is right and that's wrong? And why does this Christian influencer say this is okay? And this Christian influencer says that's not okay? And that's a different interpretation. What happens when I pray and I pray and I pray and God doesn't answer my prayers the way that I want? Who am I? Why am I here? What happens when I fail? And can I really trust God? Does he really know me? Does he really love me? And the truth is, we're raising children in a culture where they are going to encounter answer to those questions, maybe even before they articulate them, these things they're wondering in their minds. They have lots of, they have lots of, answers that are there. They have lots of sources of information. When kids were growing up in previous generations, the circle of information was pretty small. We weren't worried about getting bad theology generally from the Encyclopedia Britannica, which may be the biggest information source you had in your house. But now we have so many streaming options, and not only do those streaming options impact us personally, because you may be one person who's thinking, yeah, you know, I've, I, my kids don't have access to those devices, but they do have access to friends who do, who may be listening to those influencers. And they, they can encounter answers through, through their social circle, through peers, through their friends, through teachers at school, social media, even through entertainment. You know, that is happening. We all know that's happening. That's not something that I need to tell you because there is indoctrination. There Are cultural messages that are given through entertainment and just those are sometimes covertly, sometimes subtly and then just outright through influencers. They see, they may see people in podcast, even AI can be rapidly influencing our kids biblical worldview, their worldview development because it is very, very difficult for kids to differentiate between a person and a robot. And the question, so the question isn't whether our children will be discipled or not, will we disciple them? The question they will be discipled. They'll be discipled by us and or by culture. So the question that we can answer is who is going to disciple them? Who is going to be that primary voice in their life? How are we as a family going to be intentional about discipleship? And that brings us back to theology. This is why theology matters. And sometimes we hear the word theology and we think that is something that's reserved for pastors or seminary professors or people who enjoy arguing about Greek words over coffee. Maybe like I don't think I've ever had that kind of encounter in my life. But, but theology simply gets at the question what do we believe about God and why do we believe that? And if we're Christian parents, this matters enormously because what we believe about God shapes the way that we parent, the way that we respond to suffering, how we understand and convey to our children their God given identity, how we handle sin and forgiveness, how we respond to cultural pressure and ultimately how we disciple our children. And there's a warning here too. I recently saw an op ed by Troy Miller, who was president and CEO of the National Religious Broadcasters and argued that one of the issues of broader culture isn't just rebellion against biblical truth, it's unfamiliarity with that. And he talked about biblical illiteracy as a crisis in which scripture is quoted or invoked or used rhetorically or misused, frankly, without being deeply known, understood and app. Reading the Bible is not the same thing as studying the Bible. And that matters in our home. And that's why I'm so excited about today's conversation. My guest today has spent decades teaching the Bible and her own story demonstrates something really important, that theology isn't just information for a classroom. It is an author and an anchor for real life, which is really important. So for those of you who haven't heard had the blessing of hearing Lisa Harper speak, let me share with you that she is just a, is a great Bible teacher. She's an author, she's a speaker and she has a new book coming out this releases on October 6th. It's called Theology for The rest of us, a user friendly guide to super cool, really transformational stuff about God and why it matters. And if that doesn't sound like it's accessible, I don't know what is. And so she is the host of Back Porch Theology. She spent more than 30 years in vocational ministry. She has a master's in theological studies from Covenant Seminary and an earned doctorate from Houston Theological Seminary. And I am so thrilled to have her here. Lisa, thank you so much for joining us.
Lisa Harper: Oh, thank you so much for having me. I was listening to you, Jessica. You're so well spoken and professional. I thought, oh, man, I hope y' all didn't pay much for this podcast, because it is. You need to lower the bar. You got a Southern girl who does not speak with that kind of profound, consistent.
Dr. Jessica Peck: You know, you say that, you say that, Lisa, and yet I open your book and the first chapter just, I'm holding up the proof on the video is, I can't even say Perry Koresis. Did I even say pericoresis? We are going to teach each other, and that is the beautiful part of today. And, Lisa, I know there's so many
Lisa Harper: of you, I love you talk about accessibility. Yeah, Jessica. Because I do think so many people, we hear the word theology and you think, you know, kind of an old man with, you know, high water pants and dark socks and a seminary office or a pastor, or somebody who just has a ton, a ton, a ton of time to read. And I'm like, m. At its most basic definition, theology comes from two Greek root words, theos, which means God, logos, which means conversation or phrases. And so the base definition, basic definition of theology is conversations about God, which is exactly what you're doing. And so you don't have to know multisyllabic theological terms to have conversations about God. You do not have to go to seminary and get a doctorate. I just, Actually, I brought my daughter home from Haiti through the miracle of adoption. I knew school would be hard for Missy, and I thought, you know, I'll go back and get a doctorate so we can do homework at the kitchen table together, which we did for seven years. But I also believe strongly that the only way we can grow, in intimacy with Jesus and our relationship with Jesus, and grow in how we're shaped like Jesus and live and love the world he's called to minister in is through the revelation of the Bible, Holy Writ, and revelation of Holy Spirit. So I thought, I'll go back to school and sit under these people who do Know the Greek and Hebrew and Aramaic. Because God reveals himself through the word of God and the Spirit of God. And, I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed. Took me seven years to get a doctorate. But man, the words aren't what's important. The concepts behind the word. You said perichoresis.
Lisa Harper: That's where we get the English word choreography from. And it's a word used to describe the Trinity. And so when you go, why is the Trinity described as perichoresis? Well, because God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit are imperfect community, ontological equality. So Jesus is not a lesser version of God that was a prevailing heresy. Was that somehow when Jesus came to earth in incarnate form to hug the likes of hot messes like us, he somehow diluted his divinity. Nope, nope, nope. Back from the Nicene Council, one of the very first truths established was homo ousis, Greek for same substance. So the Trinity, God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit are in this, because choreography comes at. Some people call it a dance. That word really describes an ongoing circle, kind of like the ring you get when you have a wedding ring. that ongoing circle denotes the unity of God. And you go, well, why does that matter? Okay, stop and think. God is always throughout Scripture, encouraging us to be in community. Oh, my goodness gracious. God didn't just mandate community. God models community. St. Augustine says only the Christian God exists in a perfect community unto himself. Why does that matter? Well, we have an epidemic of loneliness in modern culture. So many people, they're digitally connected, but they feel completely isolated, completely invisible. The Gospel is the antidote to loneliness. We have a God who not only encourages us to, to be in real relationship, we have a God who exists in perfect community. And you go, oh, somehow. Now the Trinity seems less like a lofty academic term and more something that I've longed for. I long for community. So I love taking these terms that you may go, ooh, that sounds like academics. And going, no, you don't have to know how to spell it, read it, put it on Scrabble. But the concept behind the terms which we find in this divine love letter we call the Bible, they're profound and they, they'll, they'll draw us into a closer walk with Jesus and also, I think, much more authentic relationships with the world around us.
Dr. Jessica Peck: You know, Lisa, you make it so accessible because you are talking about an epidemic of loneliness. And yet we're connecting that to theology. And as I was saying in the intro. One of the concerns I have is that in yesteryear, you know, before the age of social media, really I think it was more socially acceptable for parents, for adults to say, like, oh, I don't know about that. We'll ask the pastor. And everybody would go to the local pastor and you would ask. And that was somebody who walked in community with you who hopefully had some healthy structure of accountability. But now we have all of these influencers there and I think they have, some of them have vicarious credibility, like just because they have a big following, like, oh, you follow them and you follow them. So they must know what they're wanting. They're wanting to speak into that. And that is a dangerous place for parents to be because, you know, you can't just say, like, oh, let's talk to the local pastor. Like, we have voices that are in there. And I think that's why this resource that you have is so essential for parents because if they do not step in and step up and say, okay, I want to be the one that my kid comes to you for questions. I don't want to come and say, I don't know, because then they're going to go online and, and you know, look up all kinds of things. So we're already coming up on our first break, Lisa, but I cannot wait to hear more. Listen, the book is called Theology for the Rest of Us, A user friendly guide to super cool, really transformational stuff about God and why it matters. It releases on October 6th. You can pre order it now and I hope that you will do that because really, theology isn't about becoming the person with all the answers. It's about knowing God deeply enough that when life doesn't make sense, we have something solid underneath us that we may not know what the future holds, but we know who holds the future. And parents need that because our kids are watching. How do we respond when God doesn't answer our prayers the way we expect it? They're watching. What do we do with disappointment? How do we handle that? With a biblical worldview, they're watching how we handle our own fears and failures. And sometimes the most powerful theology lessons our children will ever receive is what do we do in life when it hurts? We will talk more about these theological concepts and make them accessible for you. I'm learning right alongside you. I already told you. See, I forgot the word already, Lisa. But I'm going to learn the concept and we will learn more, including things like orthopathy. I know you're intrigued. Come back we'll be right back after the break with more from Lisa Harper. We'll see you in just a second. Hello, I'm Jessica peck, host of Dr. Nurse Mama. Did you know that this content is listener supported?
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First Things First by Consumed by Fire: All the things that I felt, dear the vanities that whispered in my ears what would I do if they all disappear? Riches and fame and all that they could buy I've come to find they never satisfied what would I gain if my soul's a prize? I don't want to love what the world loves I don't want to chase what the world does I only want you I only want you first things first I seek your will, not my own Surrender all my wants to you keep the first thing to live your truth Walk your ways Set my eyes, Lord, I fix my face on you all my desires reversed.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Welcome back, friends. That is first things first by consumed by fire. And that's. That's exactly what we're talking about today, Putting the first thing first. And the first thing is the word of God and theology, how we understand who God is and what his word says to us. I have with me today speaker, author, Bible teacher, Lisa Harper. She has a new book coming out called Theology for the Rest of Us, a user friendly guide to super cool, really transformational stuff about God and why it matters. And this is so important. We are sending our kids out into a culture that is saturated with competing worldviews, but we're just giving them isolated Bible verses, you know, that are often taken out of context, like judge not or any number of things that you can pick. And so, Lisa, tell us what you do. So many things, you know, you speak about a lot of things, you write about a lot of things. What put this passion in your heart for such a time as this, for this moment right now? What is God doing in your heart to say, hey, we need this?
Lisa Harper: Yeah, A lot of it had to do with being a parent. A lot of it had to do with Missy. You know, my. As I said, I adopted my daughter from Haiti. her first mama passed when she was a baby. By the absolute grace of God, I got written into Missy's story. She was really sick and needed medical care, and there was no one to care for her, to Provide that medicine in Haiti. And so, after two years, I brought her home when she was four years old. but in the beginning, I found myself just always talking to Missy about God. And sometimes I could tell, you know how you turn into Charlie Brown's teacher, and you can tell by your kids expression, it's just, wah, wah, wah, wah, wah, wah. And I thought, how can I make what is true of God, more understandable to Missy, not to dumb it down, but to kind of put the proverbial cookies on the lower shelf. And I sensed one night, Holy Spirit just prompted me, use less words. And so we went outside. We live out in the boonies, and, south of Nashville, we live on a hill. So we went outside and we just were in the grass in the front yard and we were looking up. You could just see all these stars. And I said, baby, God put all those stars in the sky, and he named them. And she went, wow. And I said, honey, behind those stars there's billions with a B of stars we can't see. And God made every one of those, and he named them, and he set them in the sky. And she goes, wow. And I said, missy, when you were a baby and Mama Marie died, God knows your name. And Psalm 139 says, all the days ordained for you were written in your book, his book, before one of them came to be. So he not only formed you like the stars, you were made in his image. That's what Genesis 1:26 and 27 says. So you have the image of God in you. So he cares for you infinitely more than he cares for a star. And he knew Mama Marie would die. And he knew there was a windbag of an old pale lady in Nashville, Tennessee, who'd been praying about adopting you for decades. And I said, baby, he connected the dots between me and you. Because the same God who put all those stars in the sky, he loves you. He knows your name. You're his child. And she went, wow. And I said, honey, and then I began to explain to her the terms apophatic spirituality, which means coming to God with what we don't know. And that can lead to apostasy. You have to be careful with that. That can lead to unbelief. But we want to wonder. It's great for us to lie in the grass and look up at the stars and go, what a big God with our kids. And go, that huge transcendent God is perfectly transcendent. And he condescends to be knowable that's Jesus. That's what the incarnation means. And I said, and kataphatic spirituality is what we know. And, honey, what we know to be true of God is in this love letter we call the Bible. So I think it's such a, mistake for us as Christian parents to think my kids will get good theology when they go to college, if they go to a Christian college, or my kids will get good theology when they can understand the lion, the rich and the war direction. And I'm like, hm, Your four year old who doesn't understand English yet can begin to understand these profound theological concepts. They don't, they don't have to know how to spell it, but they can understand, oh, wow, that giant God who knit the stars in the sky knows me. And so I think, man, don't take anything off the table as far as talking to your kids about the glory of God and the way he reveals himself to us. And so that was kind of the impetus. Honestly, that's one of the reasons I went back and got my doctorate was I thought, man, if we're just kind of studying deep things about God so we'll sound smarter and impress our small group, boy, what a sad, sad little life. But if we're learning more about God to increase our intimacy with Jesus as well as to impact the world around us, which starts with it, with our families, well, then that's the gospel. That's evangelism. Evangelism is when love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness and gentle control, the fruit of the spirit, are actually embodied in the way we speak and the way we live and the way we love. And so to me, one of my favorite theologians says theology was never meant to be merely studied. Theology was meant to be lived and first lived within the family that he's given us.
Dr. Jessica Peck: You know, Lisa, when you share that story, it's, it's so beautiful. I mean, just having that conversation. I think every parent listening, because I know they're listening because they long for those kinds of connections, they think, oh, I wish I could talk like Lisa Harper, like I want to say those kinds of things. And I think, you know, in the past we tended to, to have these conversations as more segregated. Like you may go to church on Sunday and you may talk about it over lunch. Like, what did you learn about in Sunday school? You just illustrated this beautifully, integrating this into life. And I talk about this all the time using environmental cues. You did that beautifully. Just by looking at the majesty of the stars. Creation has no shortage of examples. There yes. What advice would you give to parents who feel like, okay, I want to have that kind of conversation, but how do I start? Like, I don't feel like I could just, you know, just come out with that, that kind of speech that you had. Where would they start making it more natural and living that theology in front of their kids 24 7.
Lisa Harper: Right. I think what God is teaching us, it is we are. At best, we are. I always tell Missy, we went to a conference one time, and just because my big head was on the big screen, she said, mama, are we famous? And I said, no. I said, we are not famous. And I said, honey, here's the deal. We were having a plumbing project done at the time. And I said, here's the deal. Remember those white pipes leaning against the house? And she was like, yes, ma'. Am. And I said, those are called PVC pipes. And I said, baby, on our best day, we're a pipe that's not clogged up with all kinds of junk about insecurity or shame or, critical spirit. And I said, so on our best day, we're a clean pipe. And I said, the living water flows through us. And I said, people on the other end of our pipes are so thirsty when they get the living water of Jesus. They're so grateful. But sometimes it's hard to hang on to Jesus because he's no longer an embodied form. And so they hug the pipe. So I said, on our best day, where we're a pipe that living water can run through, well, that is so true of us as parents, as God is distilling truth to us, as you're reading the word of God, as you're in worship, as you're singing, driving your kids home from school, and you've got worship on, as you're listening to your podcast, as God is giving us a greater awareness of who he is and he's called us to be, then thank you. Of yourself as a parental pipe. So how can this flow through to me and how can I explain to my kids? I mean, Missy knows all the time when I've gotten it wrong because I say I'm sorry a lot as a parent, and, I'll go, hey, honey, I really messed that up. Really messed that up. So let me talk to you about what it means that we have a sinless savior. So I. I will say I'm sorry when I mess up. I mean, the other day, Jessica, well, this is actually several months ago, I threw her biscuit out the window on the way to school. She's a teenager, and she's the greatest kid, but she's a teenage girl. And so there's like one day a month when she's less than wonderful. And this was one of those days. And she had been kind of snarky in the car, very atypical for Missy. And. And I. I don't know if you ever do this. I. You don't. But as a parent, every now and then I'll go into these monologues. And I was like, we are Harper girls. And m. We have integrity. It's like, we're Harper girls. There's just two of us. There is no tribe. I don't know why I'm talking DJ voice, but I was kind of going off about how we have integrity. And I said, young lady said, if you're gonna. She just said something snarky under her breath. And I said, if you're gonna say something disrespectful, at least have the integrity to say it out loud. She's a good kid. She's an honest kid. So she did. And I was like, oh, crud. I hadn't prepared. I was just talking smack. I was in this big monologue. And now she said. And I was like, oh, golly jeepers, what do I do? And I pulled the car over the side of the road because I knew it was a parenting moment. And I was like, oh, oh, oh. I was so flustered. She was eating a sausage biscuit, and I grabbed a biscuit and threw it out the window.
Dr. Jessica Peck: I was like, what is wrong with me?
Lisa Harper: I'm a Bible teacher. I just threw my baby's biscuit out on the Internet. And we got so tickled. She was like, mom. I was like, I know, I know. And I said, baby, we're going to have a little lesson on the fruit of the spirit, because mine actually is gone this morning. And so we laughed. I told her I was sorry, but it was this awesome opportunity to talk about what it meant that Jesus is sinless. And I said, he's not a faraway God. He's not an existential construct. Maybe you're going to hear that on the social media. Here's who Jesus is. He is the son of God. He's a second member of the Trinity. He is perfect in all of his ways. And. And. And he condescended to become like us so as to save us. So I said, jesus will never throw your biscuit out the window. So I said, I love you more than I even knew I had the capacity to. Love, I said, but I'm still. My love for you is still imperfect. Let me tell you what God is telling me about how even on my worst day, he loves me because it's not about my deservedness or lack thereof. It's about his unconditional love. And that's what the Bible says. So it's just such a beautiful lesson to go hear some sound theology about being justified by faith. It's not because of my deservedness. On a bad day when I throw my baby out the window, praise God, my salvation doesn't. As a Christ follower, I should have more fruit of the Spirit. as a Christ follower, I say, I'm sorry when I'm a yahoo. And so I just think if we take what God is teaching us through holy writ and Holy Spirit and we go, how can that become just a lesson? Everything in life is story. It's narrative, it's lesson. And it's not preaching at our kids. It's as God is conforming us to the shape, to the shape of Jesus, we go, oh, let me tell you what God just showed me. And our kids. Our kids want to hear the real life stuff. When God is teaching us in real time. Telling you, if you would talk to our kids more about Jesus as we're learning about Jesus and humility, they'd go to social media less for spiritual mentoring.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Oh, that is so good. And yes, that, that, that authenticity and modeling that even in your points of weakness and being able to model, hey, I am still human. I am still in a journey of sanctification. Here's what happens when I fall short. And just modeling that for her in real time, being able to stop, to laugh at yourself and to say, okay, clearly I'm not sinless. And Lisa had four teenagers at one time. At one time, definitely sanctification.
Lisa Harper: If you didn't throw, you wanted to.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Sometimes I did. And I remember, you know, I would pray, I would pray out loud and I would say, dear God, please help my kids not to be so frustrating. And, and they would pray right back, dear God, please help our mother to have more patience and to, ah, not be so frustrated. And, you know, it was just this back and forth like this, just, dependence on the Lord. And I think that's.
Lisa Harper: And you're even modeling prayer at that point. It's not this sober DJ voice. You're going, that's why he says, pray without ceasing. There's this constant conversation of us going, lord, atonement isn't one. And done at salvation. I was saved When I put my hope in Jesus. But you are continually in the process of making all things new. And so, there's just so many moments during the day for us to usually say, honey, I'm sorry or oh my goodness, let me tell you something. God just showed me. I didn't see it this big and I just, I just saw it. But when we're honestly still amazed by the grace of God and we talk to our kids about that, that that will preach louder than some influencer on a podcast.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Oh, it absolutely will. And when we're talking about making theology accessible, that is such a difference than I think, pressure that parents get today to give self help to, you know, meet our kids emotional needs in the moment. And is it authoritarian parent or is it gentle parenting or is it helicopter parenting? And you know, the self help industry is booming. And when we look at our kids, when they have emotions, you know, maybe they come to us and they say, I'm afraid, there's, there's a place to say, hey, you don't have to be afraid. I'm with you. I love you. I'm gonna make sure you're safe. But Lisa, to follow that up with scripture to say, and God has not given you a sense spirit of fear, but of power and love and a sound mind and connect them back to scripture and then you're modeling coping in scripture but with sound theology and not teaching them to use a verse out of context. When we come back, I want to talk about that, the difference between theology and self help and how we teach our kids to go back to the word of God, examine it for themselves. Because in this age of a lot of different competing voices, there are a lot of opportunities to teach our kids and ask them, teach them to ask, what does this teach us about God? What does this tell us about people? How does this change the way that we live? That our kids don't need Christian platitudes, they don't need conclusions, they need convictions. And we'll talk about how to give them that. The book is Theology for the Rest of Us, A user friendly guide to super cool, really transformational stuff about God and why it matters. I'm, reading and learning. I hope you'll join me and I hope to see you right after this break.
Dr. Al Mohler: Here's Dr. Al Mohler from the American Family Studios documentary the God who Speaks. If you believe that the Bible is inerrant, then you begin with the understanding that if there is a problem with our understanding of scripture, the problem is in us. Not in the text. If you start out with any other assumption about Scripture, then you're going to put yourself in the position where you're going to have to say, I believe this is where the Scripture is true. I believe this is where the Scripture is mixed with some error. I believe this is where the text is absolutely wrong. Inerrancy makes all the difference in the world. That's one of the hardest lessons Evangelical Christians had to learn in the last half of the 20th century. It was a question as old as the Garden of Eden. With that question hath God said, and that's where we're left today. If God has spoken, then he has given us an inerrant and infallible Scripture. If he hasn't spoken, we are in very big trouble. Visit thegodwhospeaks.org whether it's your best day, your worst day, some Tuesday or your
I'm so blessed by Aaron Cole and CAIN: birthday, every day's a good day. Now let me tell you why. If you got air in your lungs, you got blood in your body, you are a child of God. Come on and sing it somebody. On my best day I'm a child of God. On my worst day I'm a, child of God every day Reason why I'm so blessed I'm so blessed Got this heartbeat in my chest no, it doesn't matter about the rest if I got you Lord, I'm so.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Welcome back friends. That is I'm so blessed by Cain. And that is such a, ah, great song to lift your spirits. And it is such a great truth that we are so, so blessed. And today we've been blessed by the presence of Lisa. Lisa Harper. She is a theologian, she is an author, she's a speaker and she has written a book called Theology for the Rest of Us. A user friendly guide to super cool, really transformational stuff about God and why it matters. And Lisa, this has been such an encouraging conversation for me because you are making this accessible. We've talked about why it's so important that parents today, now more than ever, doesn't matter if you're a plumber or a nurse or a truck driver or a police officer or a pastor, you need good theology in your home because it's not just about what we believe, it's how we live that out. What we believe about God's character impacts how we respond to fear. What we believe, as you said about the Trinity, shapes our understanding of relationship and community and God's very nature. What we understand about salvation impacts what we believe about identity. These are all very practical things. So Lisa, I want you just to continue to lean into that and, and really tell parents why it's so important, why this is different from self help and, and what people may be getting kids, the competing messages that you're seeing in the world and how we need to teach them discernment to know what is true.
Lisa Harper: Well, you know, I, I'm sure you've heard this analogy, but I think it's a great analogy where they talk about when they're teaching people who are going to study counterfeit, when it comes to currency, they study, the actual, let's just say a dollar bill. They study that so that when they see a counterfeit they immediately notice, oh, that lettering is off, or that way that George Washington's face is off. But they have to study the actual thing. If you don't study the word of God, because as I said earlier, the word, theology, theosis, God, logos is conversations. So really everybody's a theologian. You don't have to be a Christ follower to have conversations about God. And the problem is in our culture you've got a lot of people whose theology, their beliefs about God, they're not bound by the parameters of scripture. And so you've got people who are using Christian words or they're using a verse out of context and they're throwing that up on social media or, or they've got a podcast and it's really hooky, or they have a huge platform but no real character accountability. And you've got an impressionable 15 year old going, well, I'm going to get my theology from so and so because she has the number one song or she looks cute, or she was on the COVID of so and so. And I'm not dissing anybody who's a social media influencer, but if they don't have, if they don't have their own understanding, then they're going to take a verse out of context and wrap a whole theology around it. And our kids are going to go, well, they're a Christian. And you go, well, they may be a Christ follower and, and it may be absolutely unintentional that they're leading you away from the truth of scripture. I mean, we can go to something real simple. In Deuteronomy 22, there's a verse that says, put a parapet around your roof. What does a parapet? Sounds like a parakeet. It's a rail. It's a fence. So do you have a fence around your roof, Jessica?
Dr. Jessica Peck: no, actually I do not. I wish I don't either.
Lisa Harper: So we're big fat sinners, right? We're big fat sinners because Deuteronomy 22 says, have a sense. Well, so you go, so what? What? What? Well, that's bound by the socio historical context of ancient culture. They had parties on their roofs. They had small houses. So when you brought people over to entertain, you'd go on the roof. So our God wants us to be in community and love our neighbors. Well, so he says, hey, there's no electricity and you're gonna have people over on the roof. And when it gets dark, if there's not enough moonlight, they might get too close to the edge of the roof and fall off and break their ankle. So I want you to care for your community by having a fence around your roof.
: Well, you.
Lisa Harper: You move that forward. Well, today I live out in the boonies. It's icy in the winter in Nashville. And. And so when people come over to my house for dinner, I don't have a fence around my roof. I practice exactly what God's telling his people. I say, don't drive up the driveway because if it ices tonight, your car will slide off. Missy M. And I will come get you in the Gator park at the bottom. That's the principle for community care. Well, you have somebody who doesn't know the Bible who goes, well, that's stupid. That doesn't make sense because they don't understand. Oh, no, that actually makes incredible sense. This is true. It's as true today as it was when God originally breathed these words. I love that Paul had to come up with a new word for the Bible. Theo neustos. God breathed. But if you don't look at this and you're not teaching in your home, then your kids are going to hear somebody on social media going, that's stupid. That didn't even make sense anymore. That isn't because they don't understand, oh, here's what God was saying. Oh, here's how that applies. And you'll get. One of the words in the book is syncretism. So you'll get a little bit of Christianese and then a whole lot of philosophy or Buddhism or some other belief system, and it'll be this amalgamation, and it will be presented as spirituality. And I'm like, well, that is spiritual. But it's the kind of spirituality Paul talked about when he said I can see. And he was saying this to connect with people. He wasn't dissing them. He said, y' all are seekers. You've got little G gods You've got a statue of all the gods in the pantheon on your street corners. You even have a statue that's dedicated to an unknown God to cover your bases. He's not being ugly there. He's saying, I can see you're searching. Boy, howdy, doesn't that apply today? I mean, just scroll on your phone for five minutes. People are searching for hope. They're searching for community. Loneliness is an epidemic. They're searching for something that'll be a bomb for their anxiety. Anxiety is at all, all time high. People are searching. And then Paul says, let me tell you about Jesus. He doesn't say, you shouldn't be searching. He says, what you're searching for, you won't find in those little G guys. You will only find it in Jesus. Well, if we haven't studied the truth of who Jesus is, of who our God is, of who he's called us to be, then you're going to get these syncretistic things and they're going to sound spiritual and they might even throw in a verse or two out of context, and you're going to go, oh, well, that sounds good to me. It's faith. And I'm like, no, no, that. That is not the Christian faith. So I think for us to be, for us to continue to be lifelong learners and to say, lord, I don't have the capacity to lead my kids in a way that ensures the fact that they will walk straight towards you. So I need help. Just like the daddy in Mark's gospel. I believe. Help me in my unbelief. I believe. Help me in my parenting. But we have got to go. I'm going there. I cannot tell you how many of my friends bring their college students home. And they're like, lisa, will you talk to them? And I'm like, what, do you want me to talk to them? They're like, well, because they're in their freshman year and they had a sociology class and every single thing they learned in youth group has just been dismantled. Because some sociology professors said there were actually creation accounts before Genesis 1. And my kid was so rattled because they never heard that in youth group. And I'm like, well, of course, so much of scripture, God is reframing the truth. And he's going, let me tell you. They believed that there were gods that would kill them. They believed the sun, Ra was the God in Egyptian culture. There's no way to connect with the sun. He beats on them m mercilessly out in the Middle Eastern heat. So God says, no, I actually made the sun, and I made you in my image. In other words, you're not slaves anymore, your children. Well, if you don't know about the Egyptian creation account, then you. You just go, well, my Sunday school teacher just made that up and put that on a flannel graph board. And I'm like, no, y', all, we have to. We have to understand theology. So when our kids get tripped up by culture, we go, okay, I can see how you would think that. Let me take you back to biblical truth. That is. That is. Is not only true, it's actually lie. You see redemptive history. You can bring your mind to the truth of who God is. There's some mystery. We won't figure everything out. But this is not all emotionalism. This is not all tradition. This is not primarily about ethics. This is about a real relationship with a real God. And so we've got to lead with conviction. And some of us, I think, the fact that we don't know how to express, explain good theology to our kids should be, an encouragement to us to go, I need to dive a little deeper into the word of God myself.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, you just talked about real relationships, and real relationships are messy. And one of the things I see in Gen Alpha and Gen Z is a real distaste for conflict, because you can ghost someone, you can block them, you can unfriend them, you can go to AI, who's going to be really sycophantic, can tell you what you want to hear.
Lisa Harper: Right?
Dr. Jessica Peck: And that's what I see in a lot of influencers. And when kids are searching for answers, which, by the way, it reminds me of my conversation with Lee Strobel and not being afraid of our kids questions. God is big enough to handle their questions, and answering them with theology is so good. But what I'm concerned about, Lisa, is it's almost like there's different brands of Christianity now that are trying to recruit our kids. And I see kids who use exact words like, that's a Jesus I can get behind, or, oh, that's the kind of version of God that I appreciate. I can believe that. And I just start to get kind of cold chills all over. And that goes back to walking in community with a pastor who knows you, who you trust, who's theologically vetted and looking these answers at home. What do you have to say to that, to parents who are navigating that? I know you're navigating it, too.
Lisa Harper: Oh, all the time. I mean, honestly, it misses in a Christian school. But she had a textbook last year that I said, honey, that actually says it's a biblical worldview. That's not true. So let me tell you what's really true. It was outdated and it was what. It was a passage that to me was very racist. And I said, let's go back to Imago Day, and let's go back to the fact that every single human being, regardless of ethnicity, gender, demographic, is made in God's image. That means everyone is inherently white, worthy of dignity. And she was like, oh, okay, mama. But we, I think, as parents, I love that you said we're not perfect. One of the things that I think is so profound as a parent is when one of our kids. And I get this all the time. I was just with Sadie Robertson Huff, who I adore and consider to be almost a daughter, and Sadie asked me a question and I went, honey, I don't know. Let's study that together. So I have a doctorate. I didn't study that particular, particular thing. Let's study that together. And if, if, if you first go to the Word of God, the word of God is revelatory. And we have done these, these younger generations such a disservice by treating the Bible as boring or a museum piece or only something you dive into on Sunday or something you just use for an inspirational meme on social media. This is life to us. And it's a love story and it's almost half narrative. This is so much more interesting than Netflix. So I'd say, you know, tell your kids, hey, let's learn this together. I'm not sure, man. I guess I wasn't paying attention when they talked about that in church. Let's dive into this together. And then there are some amazingly vetted programs. Bible Gateway Logos is amazing. So, you know, the Internet isn't all evil if you get a boundary book you and I talked about. Dr. Linne Kohik.
Lisa Harper: One of the best commentaries I've ever read EPHESIANS is Dr. Linne Kohik. So when your kids are asking something about community, go, oh, man, there's a whole lot of that in Ephesians. Let's peruse this commentary together. And so I'd say probably one of the godliest things you can say to your kids is, I'm not sure. But God says if we lack wisdom to ask. And he says every. Everything we need for life and Godliness is in his word. And so let's dive into this together and figure out together when they come home with hard Questions from college. Go. Huh? First, I'm going to call Jessica and go. Do you recommend a book that's really biblically sound on this issue? Because there's just amazing. Study helps. Lee Strobel is amazing. There's some really, really great stuff to learn. You just have to make sure the boundaries from this come first from God's revelation, and that's in scripture. This is not primarily, imperatives about do's and don'ts. This is primarily a love story from a good God who entered into our world to save us. and every single layer of redemptive history, from Genesis to Revelation, is redemptive. And so if we would fall in love with our Bibles, I'm telling you, our kids would be more affected by the truth of God's word. It's not boring. We're lazy readers.
Dr. Jessica Peck: We are lazy readers. And that is something I think is another pitfall, is that, you know, we think, oh, I've read my Bible. Because I scrolled through Instagram and saw a couple verses posted that I don't even know were posted or translated correctly. You know what version that was? Or we read the devotional and we skim over the scripture. It all goes back to God's Word. And just like you said, there can be errors in any other textbook and any other book, but it's a great starting point. And, Lisa, your book is a great starting point. One of the things I love about it is that this would be a great tool for family dinners. I mean, just imagine you're sitting down to dinner, you open up to chapter 24, and you say, we're going to talk about the hypostatic union tonight. And then you just read this. But what. It's really short. It's. It's just. Look, I'm looking at it right now. It's three pages. And then after that is Imago dei. You were talking about that, which is so good.
Lisa Harper: I love Imago De. Okay, Jess. Hypostatic Indian. I was at a conference recently. A woman was crying really hard. I hugged her as I was hugging her, because I thought, that's really the best gift I have in the body. she started saying, I'm sorry. And I was like, oh, no, no, no, no, no. That's my favorite part. Well, then she said, I'm sorry I got snot in your hair. And I got so tickled. Well, that night, I went home, took a shower, stepped out of the shower, looked in the mirror, and I thought, hypostatic union. Because a hypostatic union means Jesus is simultaneously transcendent and imminent. He is perfectly God and he became incarnate. And you go, oh my goodness, radio's so rude.
Dr. Jessica Peck: We have to leave it there. We have to leave it right there. But listen, get the rest of the story and I'm gonna hear the rest of the story behind the scenes. But you guys get the book. And as you do, I pray the Lord will bless you and keep you. Make his face shine upon you as you seek good theology. I'll see you next time.
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: Hope for healthy Families here on American Family Radio. Here's your host, professor, pediatric nurse practitioner and mom of four, Dr. Jessica Peck.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, hey there friends and welcome to my favorite time of day getting to spend time with you prescribing Hope for healthy families. I hope that you're having a great Sunday start to your week, whatever you may be doing. And I want to thank you for listening in. It gives me so much hope to know and and to hear from my listeners, to see you all and to know there are people who are deeply invested in their own spiritual health and the spiritual health of their families, of the people they love. Thank you, thank you, thank you so much for that. And we are going to talk about something that's really important today that I've been talking about a lot and it may not sound super exciting. If you just going to talk about theology, you think why, why are we talking about theology? Because I am a nurse practitioner. I have a lot of letters after my name and my running joke is that it spells N E R D. I am definitely a learning nerd. I love to learn about things and I have a lot of science degrees but I don't have a theology degree. I did not go to seminary. That doesn't mean that that's not important, that we don't need a good working theology. And right now we are l the day and age of information overload. According to the best stats that I saw, there's about 500 hours of content loaded up to YouTube every minute. That is a lot of voices who are competing to get in our ear, who are telling us about theology. And this really does come back to the family, because the question for you today is, if you're a parent, what does your child believe about God? What does your child believe about their faith, about the Bible? What do you believe? And it may sound like a pretty simple question, but it's actually one of the most important questions that we can ask in our families because eventually our children are going to encounter questions that we cannot answer for them. They wonder really tough questions like, why does God allow suffering? Or how do I know that I know that I know the Bible is true? Or why does Christianity say this is right and that's wrong? And why does this Christian influencer say this is okay? And this Christian influencer says that's not okay? And that's a different interpretation. What happens when I pray and I pray and I pray and God doesn't answer my prayers the way that I want? Who am I? Why am I here? What happens when I fail? And can I really trust God? Does he really know me? Does he really love me? And the truth is, we're raising children in a culture where they are going to encounter answer to those questions, maybe even before they articulate them, these things they're wondering in their minds. They have lots of, they have lots of, answers that are there. They have lots of sources of information. When kids were growing up in previous generations, the circle of information was pretty small. We weren't worried about getting bad theology generally from the Encyclopedia Britannica, which may be the biggest information source you had in your house. But now we have so many streaming options, and not only do those streaming options impact us personally, because you may be one person who's thinking, yeah, you know, I've, I, my kids don't have access to those devices, but they do have access to friends who do, who may be listening to those influencers. And they, they can encounter answers through, through their social circle, through peers, through their friends, through teachers at school, social media, even through entertainment. You know, that is happening. We all know that's happening. That's not something that I need to tell you because there is indoctrination. There Are cultural messages that are given through entertainment and just those are sometimes covertly, sometimes subtly and then just outright through influencers. They see, they may see people in podcast, even AI can be rapidly influencing our kids biblical worldview, their worldview development because it is very, very difficult for kids to differentiate between a person and a robot. And the question, so the question isn't whether our children will be discipled or not, will we disciple them? The question they will be discipled. They'll be discipled by us and or by culture. So the question that we can answer is who is going to disciple them? Who is going to be that primary voice in their life? How are we as a family going to be intentional about discipleship? And that brings us back to theology. This is why theology matters. And sometimes we hear the word theology and we think that is something that's reserved for pastors or seminary professors or people who enjoy arguing about Greek words over coffee. Maybe like I don't think I've ever had that kind of encounter in my life. But, but theology simply gets at the question what do we believe about God and why do we believe that? And if we're Christian parents, this matters enormously because what we believe about God shapes the way that we parent, the way that we respond to suffering, how we understand and convey to our children their God given identity, how we handle sin and forgiveness, how we respond to cultural pressure and ultimately how we disciple our children. And there's a warning here too. I recently saw an op ed by Troy Miller, who was president and CEO of the National Religious Broadcasters and argued that one of the issues of broader culture isn't just rebellion against biblical truth, it's unfamiliarity with that. And he talked about biblical illiteracy as a crisis in which scripture is quoted or invoked or used rhetorically or misused, frankly, without being deeply known, understood and app. Reading the Bible is not the same thing as studying the Bible. And that matters in our home. And that's why I'm so excited about today's conversation. My guest today has spent decades teaching the Bible and her own story demonstrates something really important, that theology isn't just information for a classroom. It is an author and an anchor for real life, which is really important. So for those of you who haven't heard had the blessing of hearing Lisa Harper speak, let me share with you that she is just a, is a great Bible teacher. She's an author, she's a speaker and she has a new book coming out this releases on October 6th. It's called Theology for The rest of us, a user friendly guide to super cool, really transformational stuff about God and why it matters. And if that doesn't sound like it's accessible, I don't know what is. And so she is the host of Back Porch Theology. She spent more than 30 years in vocational ministry. She has a master's in theological studies from Covenant Seminary and an earned doctorate from Houston Theological Seminary. And I am so thrilled to have her here. Lisa, thank you so much for joining us.
Lisa Harper: Oh, thank you so much for having me. I was listening to you, Jessica. You're so well spoken and professional. I thought, oh, man, I hope y' all didn't pay much for this podcast, because it is. You need to lower the bar. You got a Southern girl who does not speak with that kind of profound, consistent.
Dr. Jessica Peck: You know, you say that, you say that, Lisa, and yet I open your book and the first chapter just, I'm holding up the proof on the video is, I can't even say Perry Koresis. Did I even say pericoresis? We are going to teach each other, and that is the beautiful part of today. And, Lisa, I know there's so many
Lisa Harper: of you, I love you talk about accessibility. Yeah, Jessica. Because I do think so many people, we hear the word theology and you think, you know, kind of an old man with, you know, high water pants and dark socks and a seminary office or a pastor, or somebody who just has a ton, a ton, a ton of time to read. And I'm like, m. At its most basic definition, theology comes from two Greek root words, theos, which means God, logos, which means conversation or phrases. And so the base definition, basic definition of theology is conversations about God, which is exactly what you're doing. And so you don't have to know multisyllabic theological terms to have conversations about God. You do not have to go to seminary and get a doctorate. I just, Actually, I brought my daughter home from Haiti through the miracle of adoption. I knew school would be hard for Missy, and I thought, you know, I'll go back and get a doctorate so we can do homework at the kitchen table together, which we did for seven years. But I also believe strongly that the only way we can grow, in intimacy with Jesus and our relationship with Jesus, and grow in how we're shaped like Jesus and live and love the world he's called to minister in is through the revelation of the Bible, Holy Writ, and revelation of Holy Spirit. So I thought, I'll go back to school and sit under these people who do Know the Greek and Hebrew and Aramaic. Because God reveals himself through the word of God and the Spirit of God. And, I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed. Took me seven years to get a doctorate. But man, the words aren't what's important. The concepts behind the word. You said perichoresis.
Lisa Harper: That's where we get the English word choreography from. And it's a word used to describe the Trinity. And so when you go, why is the Trinity described as perichoresis? Well, because God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit are imperfect community, ontological equality. So Jesus is not a lesser version of God that was a prevailing heresy. Was that somehow when Jesus came to earth in incarnate form to hug the likes of hot messes like us, he somehow diluted his divinity. Nope, nope, nope. Back from the Nicene Council, one of the very first truths established was homo ousis, Greek for same substance. So the Trinity, God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit are in this, because choreography comes at. Some people call it a dance. That word really describes an ongoing circle, kind of like the ring you get when you have a wedding ring. that ongoing circle denotes the unity of God. And you go, well, why does that matter? Okay, stop and think. God is always throughout Scripture, encouraging us to be in community. Oh, my goodness gracious. God didn't just mandate community. God models community. St. Augustine says only the Christian God exists in a perfect community unto himself. Why does that matter? Well, we have an epidemic of loneliness in modern culture. So many people, they're digitally connected, but they feel completely isolated, completely invisible. The Gospel is the antidote to loneliness. We have a God who not only encourages us to, to be in real relationship, we have a God who exists in perfect community. And you go, oh, somehow. Now the Trinity seems less like a lofty academic term and more something that I've longed for. I long for community. So I love taking these terms that you may go, ooh, that sounds like academics. And going, no, you don't have to know how to spell it, read it, put it on Scrabble. But the concept behind the terms which we find in this divine love letter we call the Bible, they're profound and they, they'll, they'll draw us into a closer walk with Jesus and also, I think, much more authentic relationships with the world around us.
Dr. Jessica Peck: You know, Lisa, you make it so accessible because you are talking about an epidemic of loneliness. And yet we're connecting that to theology. And as I was saying in the intro. One of the concerns I have is that in yesteryear, you know, before the age of social media, really I think it was more socially acceptable for parents, for adults to say, like, oh, I don't know about that. We'll ask the pastor. And everybody would go to the local pastor and you would ask. And that was somebody who walked in community with you who hopefully had some healthy structure of accountability. But now we have all of these influencers there and I think they have, some of them have vicarious credibility, like just because they have a big following, like, oh, you follow them and you follow them. So they must know what they're wanting. They're wanting to speak into that. And that is a dangerous place for parents to be because, you know, you can't just say, like, oh, let's talk to the local pastor. Like, we have voices that are in there. And I think that's why this resource that you have is so essential for parents because if they do not step in and step up and say, okay, I want to be the one that my kid comes to you for questions. I don't want to come and say, I don't know, because then they're going to go online and, and you know, look up all kinds of things. So we're already coming up on our first break, Lisa, but I cannot wait to hear more. Listen, the book is called Theology for the Rest of Us, A user friendly guide to super cool, really transformational stuff about God and why it matters. It releases on October 6th. You can pre order it now and I hope that you will do that because really, theology isn't about becoming the person with all the answers. It's about knowing God deeply enough that when life doesn't make sense, we have something solid underneath us that we may not know what the future holds, but we know who holds the future. And parents need that because our kids are watching. How do we respond when God doesn't answer our prayers the way we expect it? They're watching. What do we do with disappointment? How do we handle that? With a biblical worldview, they're watching how we handle our own fears and failures. And sometimes the most powerful theology lessons our children will ever receive is what do we do in life when it hurts? We will talk more about these theological concepts and make them accessible for you. I'm learning right alongside you. I already told you. See, I forgot the word already, Lisa. But I'm going to learn the concept and we will learn more, including things like orthopathy. I know you're intrigued. Come back we'll be right back after the break with more from Lisa Harper. We'll see you in just a second. Hello, I'm Jessica peck, host of Dr. Nurse Mama. Did you know that this content is listener supported?
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First Things First by Consumed by Fire: All the things that I felt, dear the vanities that whispered in my ears what would I do if they all disappear? Riches and fame and all that they could buy I've come to find they never satisfied what would I gain if my soul's a prize? I don't want to love what the world loves I don't want to chase what the world does I only want you I only want you first things first I seek your will, not my own Surrender all my wants to you keep the first thing to live your truth Walk your ways Set my eyes, Lord, I fix my face on you all my desires reversed.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Welcome back, friends. That is first things first by consumed by fire. And that's. That's exactly what we're talking about today, Putting the first thing first. And the first thing is the word of God and theology, how we understand who God is and what his word says to us. I have with me today speaker, author, Bible teacher, Lisa Harper. She has a new book coming out called Theology for the Rest of Us, a user friendly guide to super cool, really transformational stuff about God and why it matters. And this is so important. We are sending our kids out into a culture that is saturated with competing worldviews, but we're just giving them isolated Bible verses, you know, that are often taken out of context, like judge not or any number of things that you can pick. And so, Lisa, tell us what you do. So many things, you know, you speak about a lot of things, you write about a lot of things. What put this passion in your heart for such a time as this, for this moment right now? What is God doing in your heart to say, hey, we need this?
Lisa Harper: Yeah, A lot of it had to do with being a parent. A lot of it had to do with Missy. You know, my. As I said, I adopted my daughter from Haiti. her first mama passed when she was a baby. By the absolute grace of God, I got written into Missy's story. She was really sick and needed medical care, and there was no one to care for her, to Provide that medicine in Haiti. And so, after two years, I brought her home when she was four years old. but in the beginning, I found myself just always talking to Missy about God. And sometimes I could tell, you know how you turn into Charlie Brown's teacher, and you can tell by your kids expression, it's just, wah, wah, wah, wah, wah, wah. And I thought, how can I make what is true of God, more understandable to Missy, not to dumb it down, but to kind of put the proverbial cookies on the lower shelf. And I sensed one night, Holy Spirit just prompted me, use less words. And so we went outside. We live out in the boonies, and, south of Nashville, we live on a hill. So we went outside and we just were in the grass in the front yard and we were looking up. You could just see all these stars. And I said, baby, God put all those stars in the sky, and he named them. And she went, wow. And I said, honey, behind those stars there's billions with a B of stars we can't see. And God made every one of those, and he named them, and he set them in the sky. And she goes, wow. And I said, missy, when you were a baby and Mama Marie died, God knows your name. And Psalm 139 says, all the days ordained for you were written in your book, his book, before one of them came to be. So he not only formed you like the stars, you were made in his image. That's what Genesis 1:26 and 27 says. So you have the image of God in you. So he cares for you infinitely more than he cares for a star. And he knew Mama Marie would die. And he knew there was a windbag of an old pale lady in Nashville, Tennessee, who'd been praying about adopting you for decades. And I said, baby, he connected the dots between me and you. Because the same God who put all those stars in the sky, he loves you. He knows your name. You're his child. And she went, wow. And I said, honey, and then I began to explain to her the terms apophatic spirituality, which means coming to God with what we don't know. And that can lead to apostasy. You have to be careful with that. That can lead to unbelief. But we want to wonder. It's great for us to lie in the grass and look up at the stars and go, what a big God with our kids. And go, that huge transcendent God is perfectly transcendent. And he condescends to be knowable that's Jesus. That's what the incarnation means. And I said, and kataphatic spirituality is what we know. And, honey, what we know to be true of God is in this love letter we call the Bible. So I think it's such a, mistake for us as Christian parents to think my kids will get good theology when they go to college, if they go to a Christian college, or my kids will get good theology when they can understand the lion, the rich and the war direction. And I'm like, hm, Your four year old who doesn't understand English yet can begin to understand these profound theological concepts. They don't, they don't have to know how to spell it, but they can understand, oh, wow, that giant God who knit the stars in the sky knows me. And so I think, man, don't take anything off the table as far as talking to your kids about the glory of God and the way he reveals himself to us. And so that was kind of the impetus. Honestly, that's one of the reasons I went back and got my doctorate was I thought, man, if we're just kind of studying deep things about God so we'll sound smarter and impress our small group, boy, what a sad, sad little life. But if we're learning more about God to increase our intimacy with Jesus as well as to impact the world around us, which starts with it, with our families, well, then that's the gospel. That's evangelism. Evangelism is when love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness and gentle control, the fruit of the spirit, are actually embodied in the way we speak and the way we live and the way we love. And so to me, one of my favorite theologians says theology was never meant to be merely studied. Theology was meant to be lived and first lived within the family that he's given us.
Dr. Jessica Peck: You know, Lisa, when you share that story, it's, it's so beautiful. I mean, just having that conversation. I think every parent listening, because I know they're listening because they long for those kinds of connections, they think, oh, I wish I could talk like Lisa Harper, like I want to say those kinds of things. And I think, you know, in the past we tended to, to have these conversations as more segregated. Like you may go to church on Sunday and you may talk about it over lunch. Like, what did you learn about in Sunday school? You just illustrated this beautifully, integrating this into life. And I talk about this all the time using environmental cues. You did that beautifully. Just by looking at the majesty of the stars. Creation has no shortage of examples. There yes. What advice would you give to parents who feel like, okay, I want to have that kind of conversation, but how do I start? Like, I don't feel like I could just, you know, just come out with that, that kind of speech that you had. Where would they start making it more natural and living that theology in front of their kids 24 7.
Lisa Harper: Right. I think what God is teaching us, it is we are. At best, we are. I always tell Missy, we went to a conference one time, and just because my big head was on the big screen, she said, mama, are we famous? And I said, no. I said, we are not famous. And I said, honey, here's the deal. We were having a plumbing project done at the time. And I said, here's the deal. Remember those white pipes leaning against the house? And she was like, yes, ma'. Am. And I said, those are called PVC pipes. And I said, baby, on our best day, we're a pipe that's not clogged up with all kinds of junk about insecurity or shame or, critical spirit. And I said, so on our best day, we're a clean pipe. And I said, the living water flows through us. And I said, people on the other end of our pipes are so thirsty when they get the living water of Jesus. They're so grateful. But sometimes it's hard to hang on to Jesus because he's no longer an embodied form. And so they hug the pipe. So I said, on our best day, where we're a pipe that living water can run through, well, that is so true of us as parents, as God is distilling truth to us, as you're reading the word of God, as you're in worship, as you're singing, driving your kids home from school, and you've got worship on, as you're listening to your podcast, as God is giving us a greater awareness of who he is and he's called us to be, then thank you. Of yourself as a parental pipe. So how can this flow through to me and how can I explain to my kids? I mean, Missy knows all the time when I've gotten it wrong because I say I'm sorry a lot as a parent, and, I'll go, hey, honey, I really messed that up. Really messed that up. So let me talk to you about what it means that we have a sinless savior. So I. I will say I'm sorry when I mess up. I mean, the other day, Jessica, well, this is actually several months ago, I threw her biscuit out the window on the way to school. She's a teenager, and she's the greatest kid, but she's a teenage girl. And so there's like one day a month when she's less than wonderful. And this was one of those days. And she had been kind of snarky in the car, very atypical for Missy. And. And I. I don't know if you ever do this. I. You don't. But as a parent, every now and then I'll go into these monologues. And I was like, we are Harper girls. And m. We have integrity. It's like, we're Harper girls. There's just two of us. There is no tribe. I don't know why I'm talking DJ voice, but I was kind of going off about how we have integrity. And I said, young lady said, if you're gonna. She just said something snarky under her breath. And I said, if you're gonna say something disrespectful, at least have the integrity to say it out loud. She's a good kid. She's an honest kid. So she did. And I was like, oh, crud. I hadn't prepared. I was just talking smack. I was in this big monologue. And now she said. And I was like, oh, golly jeepers, what do I do? And I pulled the car over the side of the road because I knew it was a parenting moment. And I was like, oh, oh, oh. I was so flustered. She was eating a sausage biscuit, and I grabbed a biscuit and threw it out the window.
Dr. Jessica Peck: I was like, what is wrong with me?
Lisa Harper: I'm a Bible teacher. I just threw my baby's biscuit out on the Internet. And we got so tickled. She was like, mom. I was like, I know, I know. And I said, baby, we're going to have a little lesson on the fruit of the spirit, because mine actually is gone this morning. And so we laughed. I told her I was sorry, but it was this awesome opportunity to talk about what it meant that Jesus is sinless. And I said, he's not a faraway God. He's not an existential construct. Maybe you're going to hear that on the social media. Here's who Jesus is. He is the son of God. He's a second member of the Trinity. He is perfect in all of his ways. And. And. And he condescended to become like us so as to save us. So I said, jesus will never throw your biscuit out the window. So I said, I love you more than I even knew I had the capacity to. Love, I said, but I'm still. My love for you is still imperfect. Let me tell you what God is telling me about how even on my worst day, he loves me because it's not about my deservedness or lack thereof. It's about his unconditional love. And that's what the Bible says. So it's just such a beautiful lesson to go hear some sound theology about being justified by faith. It's not because of my deservedness. On a bad day when I throw my baby out the window, praise God, my salvation doesn't. As a Christ follower, I should have more fruit of the Spirit. as a Christ follower, I say, I'm sorry when I'm a yahoo. And so I just think if we take what God is teaching us through holy writ and Holy Spirit and we go, how can that become just a lesson? Everything in life is story. It's narrative, it's lesson. And it's not preaching at our kids. It's as God is conforming us to the shape, to the shape of Jesus, we go, oh, let me tell you what God just showed me. And our kids. Our kids want to hear the real life stuff. When God is teaching us in real time. Telling you, if you would talk to our kids more about Jesus as we're learning about Jesus and humility, they'd go to social media less for spiritual mentoring.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Oh, that is so good. And yes, that, that, that authenticity and modeling that even in your points of weakness and being able to model, hey, I am still human. I am still in a journey of sanctification. Here's what happens when I fall short. And just modeling that for her in real time, being able to stop, to laugh at yourself and to say, okay, clearly I'm not sinless. And Lisa had four teenagers at one time. At one time, definitely sanctification.
Lisa Harper: If you didn't throw, you wanted to.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Sometimes I did. And I remember, you know, I would pray, I would pray out loud and I would say, dear God, please help my kids not to be so frustrating. And, and they would pray right back, dear God, please help our mother to have more patience and to, ah, not be so frustrated. And, you know, it was just this back and forth like this, just, dependence on the Lord. And I think that's.
Lisa Harper: And you're even modeling prayer at that point. It's not this sober DJ voice. You're going, that's why he says, pray without ceasing. There's this constant conversation of us going, lord, atonement isn't one. And done at salvation. I was saved When I put my hope in Jesus. But you are continually in the process of making all things new. And so, there's just so many moments during the day for us to usually say, honey, I'm sorry or oh my goodness, let me tell you something. God just showed me. I didn't see it this big and I just, I just saw it. But when we're honestly still amazed by the grace of God and we talk to our kids about that, that that will preach louder than some influencer on a podcast.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Oh, it absolutely will. And when we're talking about making theology accessible, that is such a difference than I think, pressure that parents get today to give self help to, you know, meet our kids emotional needs in the moment. And is it authoritarian parent or is it gentle parenting or is it helicopter parenting? And you know, the self help industry is booming. And when we look at our kids, when they have emotions, you know, maybe they come to us and they say, I'm afraid, there's, there's a place to say, hey, you don't have to be afraid. I'm with you. I love you. I'm gonna make sure you're safe. But Lisa, to follow that up with scripture to say, and God has not given you a sense spirit of fear, but of power and love and a sound mind and connect them back to scripture and then you're modeling coping in scripture but with sound theology and not teaching them to use a verse out of context. When we come back, I want to talk about that, the difference between theology and self help and how we teach our kids to go back to the word of God, examine it for themselves. Because in this age of a lot of different competing voices, there are a lot of opportunities to teach our kids and ask them, teach them to ask, what does this teach us about God? What does this tell us about people? How does this change the way that we live? That our kids don't need Christian platitudes, they don't need conclusions, they need convictions. And we'll talk about how to give them that. The book is Theology for the Rest of Us, A user friendly guide to super cool, really transformational stuff about God and why it matters. I'm, reading and learning. I hope you'll join me and I hope to see you right after this break.
Dr. Al Mohler: Here's Dr. Al Mohler from the American Family Studios documentary the God who Speaks. If you believe that the Bible is inerrant, then you begin with the understanding that if there is a problem with our understanding of scripture, the problem is in us. Not in the text. If you start out with any other assumption about Scripture, then you're going to put yourself in the position where you're going to have to say, I believe this is where the Scripture is true. I believe this is where the Scripture is mixed with some error. I believe this is where the text is absolutely wrong. Inerrancy makes all the difference in the world. That's one of the hardest lessons Evangelical Christians had to learn in the last half of the 20th century. It was a question as old as the Garden of Eden. With that question hath God said, and that's where we're left today. If God has spoken, then he has given us an inerrant and infallible Scripture. If he hasn't spoken, we are in very big trouble. Visit thegodwhospeaks.org whether it's your best day, your worst day, some Tuesday or your
I'm so blessed by Aaron Cole and CAIN: birthday, every day's a good day. Now let me tell you why. If you got air in your lungs, you got blood in your body, you are a child of God. Come on and sing it somebody. On my best day I'm a child of God. On my worst day I'm a, child of God every day Reason why I'm so blessed I'm so blessed Got this heartbeat in my chest no, it doesn't matter about the rest if I got you Lord, I'm so.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Welcome back friends. That is I'm so blessed by Cain. And that is such a, ah, great song to lift your spirits. And it is such a great truth that we are so, so blessed. And today we've been blessed by the presence of Lisa. Lisa Harper. She is a theologian, she is an author, she's a speaker and she has written a book called Theology for the Rest of Us. A user friendly guide to super cool, really transformational stuff about God and why it matters. And Lisa, this has been such an encouraging conversation for me because you are making this accessible. We've talked about why it's so important that parents today, now more than ever, doesn't matter if you're a plumber or a nurse or a truck driver or a police officer or a pastor, you need good theology in your home because it's not just about what we believe, it's how we live that out. What we believe about God's character impacts how we respond to fear. What we believe, as you said about the Trinity, shapes our understanding of relationship and community and God's very nature. What we understand about salvation impacts what we believe about identity. These are all very practical things. So Lisa, I want you just to continue to lean into that and, and really tell parents why it's so important, why this is different from self help and, and what people may be getting kids, the competing messages that you're seeing in the world and how we need to teach them discernment to know what is true.
Lisa Harper: Well, you know, I, I'm sure you've heard this analogy, but I think it's a great analogy where they talk about when they're teaching people who are going to study counterfeit, when it comes to currency, they study, the actual, let's just say a dollar bill. They study that so that when they see a counterfeit they immediately notice, oh, that lettering is off, or that way that George Washington's face is off. But they have to study the actual thing. If you don't study the word of God, because as I said earlier, the word, theology, theosis, God, logos is conversations. So really everybody's a theologian. You don't have to be a Christ follower to have conversations about God. And the problem is in our culture you've got a lot of people whose theology, their beliefs about God, they're not bound by the parameters of scripture. And so you've got people who are using Christian words or they're using a verse out of context and they're throwing that up on social media or, or they've got a podcast and it's really hooky, or they have a huge platform but no real character accountability. And you've got an impressionable 15 year old going, well, I'm going to get my theology from so and so because she has the number one song or she looks cute, or she was on the COVID of so and so. And I'm not dissing anybody who's a social media influencer, but if they don't have, if they don't have their own understanding, then they're going to take a verse out of context and wrap a whole theology around it. And our kids are going to go, well, they're a Christian. And you go, well, they may be a Christ follower and, and it may be absolutely unintentional that they're leading you away from the truth of scripture. I mean, we can go to something real simple. In Deuteronomy 22, there's a verse that says, put a parapet around your roof. What does a parapet? Sounds like a parakeet. It's a rail. It's a fence. So do you have a fence around your roof, Jessica?
Dr. Jessica Peck: no, actually I do not. I wish I don't either.
Lisa Harper: So we're big fat sinners, right? We're big fat sinners because Deuteronomy 22 says, have a sense. Well, so you go, so what? What? What? Well, that's bound by the socio historical context of ancient culture. They had parties on their roofs. They had small houses. So when you brought people over to entertain, you'd go on the roof. So our God wants us to be in community and love our neighbors. Well, so he says, hey, there's no electricity and you're gonna have people over on the roof. And when it gets dark, if there's not enough moonlight, they might get too close to the edge of the roof and fall off and break their ankle. So I want you to care for your community by having a fence around your roof.
: Well, you.
Lisa Harper: You move that forward. Well, today I live out in the boonies. It's icy in the winter in Nashville. And. And so when people come over to my house for dinner, I don't have a fence around my roof. I practice exactly what God's telling his people. I say, don't drive up the driveway because if it ices tonight, your car will slide off. Missy M. And I will come get you in the Gator park at the bottom. That's the principle for community care. Well, you have somebody who doesn't know the Bible who goes, well, that's stupid. That doesn't make sense because they don't understand. Oh, no, that actually makes incredible sense. This is true. It's as true today as it was when God originally breathed these words. I love that Paul had to come up with a new word for the Bible. Theo neustos. God breathed. But if you don't look at this and you're not teaching in your home, then your kids are going to hear somebody on social media going, that's stupid. That didn't even make sense anymore. That isn't because they don't understand, oh, here's what God was saying. Oh, here's how that applies. And you'll get. One of the words in the book is syncretism. So you'll get a little bit of Christianese and then a whole lot of philosophy or Buddhism or some other belief system, and it'll be this amalgamation, and it will be presented as spirituality. And I'm like, well, that is spiritual. But it's the kind of spirituality Paul talked about when he said I can see. And he was saying this to connect with people. He wasn't dissing them. He said, y' all are seekers. You've got little G gods You've got a statue of all the gods in the pantheon on your street corners. You even have a statue that's dedicated to an unknown God to cover your bases. He's not being ugly there. He's saying, I can see you're searching. Boy, howdy, doesn't that apply today? I mean, just scroll on your phone for five minutes. People are searching for hope. They're searching for community. Loneliness is an epidemic. They're searching for something that'll be a bomb for their anxiety. Anxiety is at all, all time high. People are searching. And then Paul says, let me tell you about Jesus. He doesn't say, you shouldn't be searching. He says, what you're searching for, you won't find in those little G guys. You will only find it in Jesus. Well, if we haven't studied the truth of who Jesus is, of who our God is, of who he's called us to be, then you're going to get these syncretistic things and they're going to sound spiritual and they might even throw in a verse or two out of context, and you're going to go, oh, well, that sounds good to me. It's faith. And I'm like, no, no, that. That is not the Christian faith. So I think for us to be, for us to continue to be lifelong learners and to say, lord, I don't have the capacity to lead my kids in a way that ensures the fact that they will walk straight towards you. So I need help. Just like the daddy in Mark's gospel. I believe. Help me in my unbelief. I believe. Help me in my parenting. But we have got to go. I'm going there. I cannot tell you how many of my friends bring their college students home. And they're like, lisa, will you talk to them? And I'm like, what, do you want me to talk to them? They're like, well, because they're in their freshman year and they had a sociology class and every single thing they learned in youth group has just been dismantled. Because some sociology professors said there were actually creation accounts before Genesis 1. And my kid was so rattled because they never heard that in youth group. And I'm like, well, of course, so much of scripture, God is reframing the truth. And he's going, let me tell you. They believed that there were gods that would kill them. They believed the sun, Ra was the God in Egyptian culture. There's no way to connect with the sun. He beats on them m mercilessly out in the Middle Eastern heat. So God says, no, I actually made the sun, and I made you in my image. In other words, you're not slaves anymore, your children. Well, if you don't know about the Egyptian creation account, then you. You just go, well, my Sunday school teacher just made that up and put that on a flannel graph board. And I'm like, no, y', all, we have to. We have to understand theology. So when our kids get tripped up by culture, we go, okay, I can see how you would think that. Let me take you back to biblical truth. That is. That is. Is not only true, it's actually lie. You see redemptive history. You can bring your mind to the truth of who God is. There's some mystery. We won't figure everything out. But this is not all emotionalism. This is not all tradition. This is not primarily about ethics. This is about a real relationship with a real God. And so we've got to lead with conviction. And some of us, I think, the fact that we don't know how to express, explain good theology to our kids should be, an encouragement to us to go, I need to dive a little deeper into the word of God myself.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, you just talked about real relationships, and real relationships are messy. And one of the things I see in Gen Alpha and Gen Z is a real distaste for conflict, because you can ghost someone, you can block them, you can unfriend them, you can go to AI, who's going to be really sycophantic, can tell you what you want to hear.
Lisa Harper: Right?
Dr. Jessica Peck: And that's what I see in a lot of influencers. And when kids are searching for answers, which, by the way, it reminds me of my conversation with Lee Strobel and not being afraid of our kids questions. God is big enough to handle their questions, and answering them with theology is so good. But what I'm concerned about, Lisa, is it's almost like there's different brands of Christianity now that are trying to recruit our kids. And I see kids who use exact words like, that's a Jesus I can get behind, or, oh, that's the kind of version of God that I appreciate. I can believe that. And I just start to get kind of cold chills all over. And that goes back to walking in community with a pastor who knows you, who you trust, who's theologically vetted and looking these answers at home. What do you have to say to that, to parents who are navigating that? I know you're navigating it, too.
Lisa Harper: Oh, all the time. I mean, honestly, it misses in a Christian school. But she had a textbook last year that I said, honey, that actually says it's a biblical worldview. That's not true. So let me tell you what's really true. It was outdated and it was what. It was a passage that to me was very racist. And I said, let's go back to Imago Day, and let's go back to the fact that every single human being, regardless of ethnicity, gender, demographic, is made in God's image. That means everyone is inherently white, worthy of dignity. And she was like, oh, okay, mama. But we, I think, as parents, I love that you said we're not perfect. One of the things that I think is so profound as a parent is when one of our kids. And I get this all the time. I was just with Sadie Robertson Huff, who I adore and consider to be almost a daughter, and Sadie asked me a question and I went, honey, I don't know. Let's study that together. So I have a doctorate. I didn't study that particular, particular thing. Let's study that together. And if, if, if you first go to the Word of God, the word of God is revelatory. And we have done these, these younger generations such a disservice by treating the Bible as boring or a museum piece or only something you dive into on Sunday or something you just use for an inspirational meme on social media. This is life to us. And it's a love story and it's almost half narrative. This is so much more interesting than Netflix. So I'd say, you know, tell your kids, hey, let's learn this together. I'm not sure, man. I guess I wasn't paying attention when they talked about that in church. Let's dive into this together. And then there are some amazingly vetted programs. Bible Gateway Logos is amazing. So, you know, the Internet isn't all evil if you get a boundary book you and I talked about. Dr. Linne Kohik.
Lisa Harper: One of the best commentaries I've ever read EPHESIANS is Dr. Linne Kohik. So when your kids are asking something about community, go, oh, man, there's a whole lot of that in Ephesians. Let's peruse this commentary together. And so I'd say probably one of the godliest things you can say to your kids is, I'm not sure. But God says if we lack wisdom to ask. And he says every. Everything we need for life and Godliness is in his word. And so let's dive into this together and figure out together when they come home with hard Questions from college. Go. Huh? First, I'm going to call Jessica and go. Do you recommend a book that's really biblically sound on this issue? Because there's just amazing. Study helps. Lee Strobel is amazing. There's some really, really great stuff to learn. You just have to make sure the boundaries from this come first from God's revelation, and that's in scripture. This is not primarily, imperatives about do's and don'ts. This is primarily a love story from a good God who entered into our world to save us. and every single layer of redemptive history, from Genesis to Revelation, is redemptive. And so if we would fall in love with our Bibles, I'm telling you, our kids would be more affected by the truth of God's word. It's not boring. We're lazy readers.
Dr. Jessica Peck: We are lazy readers. And that is something I think is another pitfall, is that, you know, we think, oh, I've read my Bible. Because I scrolled through Instagram and saw a couple verses posted that I don't even know were posted or translated correctly. You know what version that was? Or we read the devotional and we skim over the scripture. It all goes back to God's Word. And just like you said, there can be errors in any other textbook and any other book, but it's a great starting point. And, Lisa, your book is a great starting point. One of the things I love about it is that this would be a great tool for family dinners. I mean, just imagine you're sitting down to dinner, you open up to chapter 24, and you say, we're going to talk about the hypostatic union tonight. And then you just read this. But what. It's really short. It's. It's just. Look, I'm looking at it right now. It's three pages. And then after that is Imago dei. You were talking about that, which is so good.
Lisa Harper: I love Imago De. Okay, Jess. Hypostatic Indian. I was at a conference recently. A woman was crying really hard. I hugged her as I was hugging her, because I thought, that's really the best gift I have in the body. she started saying, I'm sorry. And I was like, oh, no, no, no, no, no. That's my favorite part. Well, then she said, I'm sorry I got snot in your hair. And I got so tickled. Well, that night, I went home, took a shower, stepped out of the shower, looked in the mirror, and I thought, hypostatic union. Because a hypostatic union means Jesus is simultaneously transcendent and imminent. He is perfectly God and he became incarnate. And you go, oh my goodness, radio's so rude.
Dr. Jessica Peck: We have to leave it there. We have to leave it right there. But listen, get the rest of the story and I'm gonna hear the rest of the story behind the scenes. But you guys get the book. And as you do, I pray the Lord will bless you and keep you. Make his face shine upon you as you seek good theology. I'll see you next time.
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Jeff Chamblee: opinions expressed in this broadcast may not necessarily reflect those of the American Family association or American Family Radio.
Author, Bible Teacher, and Podcast Host Lisa Harper joins Jessica to talk about equipping ourselves to disciple the next generation.
Live
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