Hello and welcome to the Dr. Nurse Mama show prescribing Hope for Healthy Families here on American Family Radio. Here's your host, professor, pediatric nurse practitioner, and mom of four, Dr. Jessica Peck.

>> Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, hey there, friends, and welcome to my favorite time of day, getting to spend time with you, prescribing Hope for Healthy Families. And listen as we continue in a news cycle that just seems that it's depressing, it is scary. We are feeling afraid, we are feeling anxious collectively. I feel it in my family, I feel it in my community. I feel it in our nation. I feel it in the world. One of the hardest things that we can do as believers is to be marked by joy. Is that what people say about you when they talk about you? Oh, that's a really joyful person. I don't know that people say that about me, but I want them to say that about me. And I want to be able to say that about our, about myself. And I feel like in today's world we are encouraged to pursue our own happiness, which is really different from joy. And looking at some of the things that give us an indication of how the world is, we look at a Gallup study from 2023 and it concluded the world has been experiencing record breaking sadness, stress and anxiety and depression. I know this is true from a clinical sense where I see it on the ground. I know it's true from a practical sense just in talking to people. The Happiness Report is a research study that was conducted by Oracle and it found that 45% of people have not felt true happiness for more than two years. And 25% were unsure if they have ever felt true happiness. And According to the CDC, as of, October 2023, which has continued and that trend continued, 30% of adults in the US reported symptoms of anxiety and depression. And of course, the highest rate that we see is from young people aged 18 to 29 coming in at just under half of people. And that makes me feel conviction as someone in a older generation. What kind of message, what kind of world are we stewarding for the world to come? We are really giving this message that, hey, it's pretty much a terrible time to be alive, the world is a dumpster fire and there is no hope. Well, we have someone here today who is going to help us, to counteract that. We have author Jared Mitzelfelt He is a respected pastor, he's a biblical scholar, and he has just written a book called Marked by Joy, Discovering the Joy that Defined the First Believers. Now this compelling work really is Inviting you to rediscover the vibrant joy that defined the lives of first century Christians, offering timeless insights for modern believers seeking a deeper, more joyful faith. And this is convicting to me as I've been sharing with you, my listeners, recently, I had the privilege of traveling some ancient paths. And it was so shocking to me to see how ancient people are really not so different from modern people. They had the same emotions, they had the same patterns of behavior, they had the same struggles that with sin that we do. And maybe it manifests itself in a different way in our modern context, but the root of those issues are all the same. So we are so glad to have you here, Jared. Thank you so much for joining us and we're really looking forward. This is kind of a high bar. This is a tough thing to talk about, is it not?

>> Jared Mitzelfelt: It is. because I think a lot of recent, history in the church joy has been talked about, it gets preached, we hear it in our music. but it almost seems like this unrealistic ideal. You know, it almost seems theoretical and not practical. And so, you know, even growing up, I would think that because I lacked joy in my life really within up until the last few years, and so that kind of fueled my exploration of the scriptures, of what joy really is and how we can have it.

Jared Mitzelfelt talks about how he found joy in life

>> Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, let's dive into that, Jared, because again, I say this all the time on my show, anytime I have an author, it's not, oh, here is Jared Mitzelfelt He is a preeminent expert on joy because he has absolutely perfected the art of having joy, and he can tell us all about that. From a great point of view, it always comes from a struggle. And it's through those struggles that God gives us grace to share those lessons with other believers. So talk a little bit about your personal life and what circumstances led to you coming to us today to give us this message of how you found joy, even when it's really hard to do that.

>> Jared Mitzelfelt: Yeah, I, I've always struggled with anxiety and, and also throughout my life, just easily angered. you know, I often ask people, you know, what, what five words describe you. And, and for me, like, if I asked somebody that joy would not be in my top five. I don't even know if it'd be in my top 10 a few years ago. And so that was always there. And, again, like, what I shared just a few minutes ago is it joy always seemed like an unrealistic ideal. I would say that I've had moments of joy, but I Wouldn't say they would mark my life. And so, you know, that's personal reflection. But really what happened was I was studying in First Peter for our young adult, ministry. And I came across a passage in the first chapter where Peter is describing the, the folks that he's writing to in Asia Minor, people that he likely never met before. But he describes them as people with this inexpressible and glorious joy. And I was reading a commentary that said, you know, Peter likely had not met these people before, but he's describing them. And the line that stood out to me is that Peter assumed that the, that these Christians were joyful because joy is what marked the first century Christians. And I don't know if you've had this happen before. Maybe you've read scripture or a book where like a line, a sentence or a word just like pops out to you. For me, that was the line in that commentary. And I was like, man, like, And the question that came to my mind was, well, if joy is what marked the first century Christians, does joy still mark the 21st century Christians? And then as I pondered that, I was like, I don't maybe, maybe not the way that it should. And we kind of shared the statistics leading into this. And that's not exempt from. The church is not exempt from those statistics. It's in the church as well. And so there's just self reflection of the church. But then it was self reflection on myself of like, man, why am I not joyful? Why does joy not mark my life? And it, it took about a week. Like, it's one of those things that I, I couldn't shake it. And so, we had gone through a season of sickness in my family. we had little ones that, you know, we, at that time we had a four year old and a newborn. And we just, it was months and months. We were catching everything. I was.

>> Dr. Jessica Peck: You broke your ribs from coughing. Like this was, that was crazy to me when I read that.

>> Jared Mitzelfelt: Pretty, pretty impressive, isn't it? Yeah, pretty, pretty.

>> Dr. Jessica Peck: I mean that was pretty impressive. As a nurse, I just wanted to give you that affirmation. I definitely don't see that often.

>> Jared Mitzelfelt: Not often, no. I, basically how that went was my, the, the doctor that I met with was like, well, I don't think you broke ribs because that doesn't happen at your age. if you were an 80 year old woman. That's what he said.

>> Dr. Jessica Peck: That's so.

>> Jared Mitzelfelt: And so then afterwards I'm like, well, so are you saying that I have the body of an 80 year old woman or am I Superman? I choose the latter. anyways, yes, that was a part of all that and, just going through it. So I, I ended up going to an urgent care, not for my ribs, but for a separate issue. I had lost my voice. And I was sitting in the waiting room and I'm just thinking, like, why am I not joyful? You know, like, these Christians were going through way worse stuff than I'm going through right now. And they were joyful. Like, why, why is that? And it was while I was sitting in that waiting room, I felt in my spirit, the Lord so clearly say, I want you to write about that. And I'm like, I am what me? I'm not an expert on joy at all. You know, like, I'm failing at this. My entire Christian life, I've, I've failed in this area in my life. Like, why me? What? No. And as I sat there, and I sat there for an hour waiting for the doctor, he just flooded my mind with scripture and, and ideas and what actually would end up being the outline for the book in my notes, in my phone. And so I go home and I'm like, listen, like, I got the medicine, but also something. The Lord just like downloaded this to me. And, and so we, my wife and I, we prayed about it, we talked to wise counsel, and we felt like it was an assignment from the Lord. And so I, I ended up starting researching, searching the scriptures, and I ended up spending time with one of the leading experts in the study of joy in the world from the psychology standpoint, which was very fun and fascinating, helpful. m. And over a year, just learned a lot about joy. And, and, and now as a person that struggled with joy, I feel like my joy has been redeemed. And I feel like I, I am. You know, it's a daily, it's a daily walk, you know, But I do think that, that by pursuing the Lord, and pursuing the joy that he provides. Oh, it's awesome. It's, it's life changing for me. And it, and it, I know the people that I've read it to, it's been helpful too.

>> Dr. Jessica Peck: Redeemed is such an interesting word to look at it that God has given us joy, but to redeem that joy, I think there's a lot of people out there who think, yeah, I would like for my joy to be redeemed.

Jared, it's refreshing to hear you talk about your struggles

And Jared, I just want to say it's very refreshing to hear you as a pastor just talking about your struggles because Newsflash. Pastors are human. And I think sometimes as you of believers, we look at people that we admire, leaders in the faith, and you kind of think, oh, well, if I could only be like them. But, but really as humans, we are just incurably fallible. You know, we are, ah, we are weak. We will. But it's in our weaknesses that God's strength is made perfect. And that is such. You're just doing a great job of living out that testimony, saying that in this world we will have trouble as God told us in John 16:33, but we can take heart because God has overcome the world. And I'm grateful that you have listened to God's wisdom in your life, talk to you about this so that we can learn from it today.

Jared Mitzelfelt explores what joy is and how to define it

So now, after all of that, having looked at it, having walked through it, having had the absence of joy, talking to experts on joy, and having God redeeming your joy, how do you now define joy?

>> Jared Mitzelfelt: So I went into this project not, not wanting to have all the answers because there's kind of like ideas and there's lots of stuff on joy. I wanted to go into the project from the ground, starting from the ground up. And so I, I looked at joy's occurrences in the Old Testament and New Testament and I wanted to know what joy is. Because if you, if you want to know how to have it, you have to know what it is. And so how I define joy is that joy is a supernatural emotion empowered by the Holy Spirit when we are deeply connected to Jesus and others.

>> Dr. Jessica Peck: That is a little lengthy. Say it again, Say it again.

>> Jared Mitzelfelt: It's a little lengthy. Yeah, but it, it can be broken up. joy is a supernatural emotion empowered by the Holy Spirit when we are deeply connected to Jesus and others.

>> Dr. Jessica Peck: I love it.

>> Jared Mitzelfelt: Now break it down, let's break it down. So one of the, one of the misconceptions about joy that really had kind of came to a head about a hundred years ago was, this confusion of what joy actually is. And so there's been lots of theologians and teachers and preachers that will say, well, joy is an emotion, or maybe it's an attitude, or maybe it's just a virtue. and, or maybe it's just a characteristic. And so there's really confusion that we see in scholarship of what joy actually is. But that's all. That's only existed for about 100 years. And so moving, looking backwards, joy is always, up until the last hundred years has been viewed as an emotion. And even when you look at, Old Testament and New Testament, the writers wrote it as an emotion. And so, so that was the first thing. But joy is not just an emotion. It's a supernatural emotion. we see that in the New Testament, where obviously it's a fruit of the spirit. We see that in Galatians 5. But also the kind of where it all comes to a head, like all the occurrences of joy, it all kind of singular comes to this passage in John 15 where Jesus is having his last powwow with his, disciples because he's about to be crucified. And so this is like his, you know, his last words to them that he wanted them to know. And he teaches the vines and branches parable. And so he's telling them that, you need to be deeply connected to me. Abide in me as I abide in you. and that he is the branch and we. Or that he is the vine and we are the branches.

>> Dr. Jessica Peck: You know what, Jared? Apart from him, we can do nothing. And we can do nothing until we come back from this break. We're already at our first break. Don't go away because we're right in the middle of this story. And, man, Jared, you got me really interested because this is something that we all struggle with. We'll talk more about being marked by joy with Jared Mitzelfelt when we come back.

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>> Then Christ Came by MercyMe: Like a soldier with no armor in the middle of, the battle I was broken. I was broken. It was only getting darker in the valley of the shadow I was hopeless. I was hopeless. I never thought that I would ever see the day when every single chain would break or hear the voice of heaven call my name Then, Christ came changing everything he took my sin and shame away now every song I sing will be for him Ever since the moment he walked in Then Christ came.

>> Dr. Jessica Peck: Welcome back, friends. That, song is Then Christ came by mercy me. And that's what we're talking about today. Listen, friend, I don't know what you're going through. I don't know what struggles you're facing. You might be thinking, jessica, you have no idea what's going on in my life. If you only knew, you would say it is impossible to have joy in this moment. That is just not a place where I am. But let me tell you, that is a place where you can be. And it's only because of what Christ did for us. We're talking today to Pastor Jared Mitzelfelt about his new book, Marked by Joy, Discovering the Joy that Defined the first believers.

Jared says joy is when we are deeply connected to Jesus and others

And Jared, right before the break, we were right in the middle of this, of this really dramatic description that you were giving, because you were talking about your definition of joy after having lived a lot of your life struggling to find that. And you just find it as a supernatural emotion empowered by the Holy Spirit when we are deeply connected to Jesus and others. And then you took us to John 15, which, honestly, Jared, if we're talking about joy, and then you say, okay, so Jesus was about to. To die, and this is where we're going to find joy. But that's where we are. So take us back there. I'm going to let you pick it back up right where we cut off in the middle and talk about how we can find joy even in the shadow of the crucifixion.

>> Jared Mitzelfelt: Yeah, absolutely. So he's teaching his disciples the vines and branches passage, and he's telling them that I'm the vine, you are the branches, and, and apart from me, you can do nothing. Abide in me as I abide in you. So stay deeply connected. But then you see, in John 15, verse 11, he says, I've told you these things so that my joy may be in you and your joy may be full. And for me, that was a connection piece, talking about connection. But it connected the dots for me, too, because even in research in psychology, like, Dr. Philip Watkins in Eastern Washington University, who had studied joy is one of the only people to study joy. from the psychology standpoint, what he found is that joy is fundamentally about connection. And so that. That's even a, how you. How he. And how I would also defer happiness and joy is that joy is fundamentally about connection, whereas happiness doesn't require connection. When I would talk to people about joy and I would ask them, describe joy to me, they would say, well, it's not happiness. It's deeper. Well, what does deeper mean? What they were trying to describe is that. And even reflecting on moments where they've experienced joy, what they were. What they were describing was connection, love, bond, bonding with people. And so looking at the John 15 passage is like, you need to be deeply connected to me as Lord, but also as friend. this deep love that you have for me, that I have for you, stay connected to me. and then also when you look at New Testament as well, so the connection piece with Jesus. But even when you go into the New Testament, they lived it out. They lived out that parable. They were deeply connected to Jesus. They had an abiding love in him, but it was also an abiding joy. they stayed deeply connected to Jesus after, you know, the death and then the resurrection, and then after he ascended, they went and did ministry. They were empowered by the Holy Spirit that dwelled in them now. And so then they lived out their abiding. And not only that with Jesus, but they were deeply connected to one another. they were very communal. And there's a theme in the New Testament of complete joy. And what I found was complete joy is found in community. We see that in Acts, but we also see it in the letters. even in First Peter, where this whole thing began is that they were going through difficulty and persecution, and discrimination, but they knew Jesus, they loved Jesus, and they were so connected to one another in love. And so that's kind of how I define joy, is that, yes, it's a supernatural emotion. It comes from the Holy Spirit, it comes from Jesus. but it's when we are connected to Jesus, but also connected to others. With that said, if that's what joy is, we can understand why people lack joy. It's because they're lacking connection, they're lacking connection with Jesus, and they're lacking connection with others, specifically believers in their life.

>> Dr. Jessica Peck: you know. Well, Jared, I just have to say that this all. It feels like the piece is falling into place when you look back at what we've experienced in the world over the last five years. With oh, what nobody wants to talk about. And you're not supposed to say, right, Covid? But for me, looking at that as a healthcare professional, looking at how that impacted not only children, especially impacted children, but adults, you're talking about a lack of connection. And we gave the top of the show the some of those statistics of how we have an epidemic of loneliness, of anxiety, depression, all of those things I think you could arguably mark an absence of joy. But when we look at the connections that were taken away, those social connections, even through church, where we weren't gathering together to worship like we were. You weren't gathering with your family, those connections were there, were taken away. And then we saw a lot of people who struggled with the connections in their faith. It's hard, you know, how do I have faith? And when all of these things are going on in the world and it seems so difficult and I think it's really compelling to look back, as you have done, at the historical context. Because so often people look at a book and think, how is this ancient book irrelevant to my life? How can the things that the early century Christians that the things that they went through, how is that relevant to my life? And so for me, Jared, you know, not too long ago I've been sharing that I walked some ancient paths and I actually was in Pompeii and we were looking and they showed us gladiator arena that was in Pompeii. And then we're walking the perimeter outside of Pompeii and there's all of these, thresholds that have grooves in them. And they said, well, this is how we know these are all the fast food markets because they had sliding doors for shops that would open and close. So I'm sitting here imagining this sports arena, imagining, you know, all of the, little, you know, pizza stands that are around it, but fast food that you get. And you go into the arena, then you go. And then there's. This is the neighborhood where all of the wealthy people lived. Here's the neighborhood where all of the what were considered middle class people lived. And as I was walking around the city, I thought, this is exactly like we live today.

First century Christians were deeply committed to one another, Jared says

And it really just convicted me in thinking that there are so many lessons that we can learn. And so what are, what are those things that you learned from, from ancient city, from sitting with Jesus in the shadow of his crucifixion, watching his ascension, being those first century Christians, to sitting in the shadow of COVID of a pandemic of global unrest. All of those things where do you see the connection? What did you lear about specifically those first century Christians that is applicable to us today?

>> Jared Mitzelfelt: There's many things, but I think that the most important is they were deeply committed to one another. And so if we look at how they lived in community versus how we live in community today, there is a disconnect. They were committed to love one another and we see the love of one another's throughout scripture and the one another's, you know, but they were committed to see each other sometimes daily. they, they went to temples, to tables, they broke bread with one another. They were there for one another, when crisis hit and when there was need. We see in the early church in acts where people would, would sell property and possessions and give to the church so that everybody in the church would meet m. Needs would be met. and so they were, they were, they were committed to Jesus, but they were committed to one another. Today what I see, and I, I think research shows this as well, is that we lack commitment to one another because one, we're, we're kind of individualistic anyways as Western people. We, we kind of have our, our thing, our lives, our jobs and kids and here and there and you know, we're around people. But are we committed to people? Are we committed to a community? What I say is that in, in our day, our community is built off of convenience and not commitment. We will, we will go to church when we have nothing else on the calendar. You know, we, we will be at small group if we have nothing else on the calendar. we'll have someone over to dinner if it's, you know, if it's convenient. But if anything is inconvenient, then we won't do it. And that's very backwards from what we see in the scripture is that they put people first, others first. and we struggle with that. And so we, I think we struggle with commitment. The early church was very committed to one another, committed to Jesus, committed to the mission, committed to one another. and that's a big, that's a big difference in our day.

>> Dr. Jessica Peck: That's really convicting, honestly, Jared, because you're right. I think, you know, if you look at the modern churchgoer today, they're generally. And again, you know, I, I can have this tendency in myself, so I'm calling it out in myself. But we do tend to value being very committed consumers. We go, I, I think that we view church as something to give to us. Like, I want the worship to make me feel connected to, I want the pastor to make me feel connected to God. I want to, you know, I want to like the programs and I want to like the people and I want to feel good when I leave and I want to feel like I've been filled up. But it is rare when we go in thinking, okay, I'm here to serve. How can, how can I serve? And, you know, I talk about this a lot, Jared. I feel like that is something that we really don't do well as Christians because we should worship God every day of the week. And when we go to church, when we go to connect, there should be an overflow of what God has done in our, our lives that week instead of coming in on empty, really like not putting any effort to spiritual discipline and then showing up. I haven't read my Bible. I haven't spent time with the Lord. I haven't honored God in the ways that I've lived. I haven't sought him every day. And now Sunday, now I'm going to have him fill me up so that I can go back and, and do that. It really is kind of a backwards way of thinking. So what do you think? How do we, how do we resist against that? How do we cultivate joy and that connection today when it just feels like we're living at the. Of a smartphone? So many things are competing for our attention. How do we reverse that and go back to the first century trend?

>> Jared Mitzelfelt: It, it's a, it's so countercultural, you know, I think, I think it seems big and it seems like, ah, it can't be changed. But it, it starts with you, it starts with me, it starts with the individual. And so, it's, it's seeking out relationships, one with people that, that, that you want to go deeper with. And you just talk to them and say, I want to not go through the motions. You know, I don't want to have church as this consumeristic. I just show up, I sit in a chair for an hour and then go home. But I want to be deeply connected to you and I want to commit to love you the best that I can. And it, that might seem weird if you go up to somebody and say that, but if you're already in a small group setting and if you're already in a small group, like this is something we're doing in our church come the fall is that we're kind of revamping how we do groups because we do want to go deeper, because we want to be healthy, and we also want deeper relationships. And so it's just being upfront of like, I want to commit to this. I want to be consistent. I want to, I don't, I don't want to fit church into my schedule. I want to, you know, have everything else move around church and schedule around church. I want to make church priority and make time with people a priority. And so, so it's a, it's a priority thing. And, and so there's that piece. but yeah, I think, I think it starts with, it starts with the, the, the individual. And then, and then, you just, you just try to love people the best you can. And it might. Yeah, yeah, go ahead.

>> Dr. Jessica Peck: No, go ahead, Jared. Go ahead, ahead.

>> Jared Mitzelfelt: but I think once you kind of break the ice, I think everybody wants it. They just don't know how. And I think it's just. It takes one individual or two individuals or a couple to say, this is what we want to do. Would you come alongside with us? And then it starts from there. yeah.

>> Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, I was just going to say that I think your, Your wor. The use of the word countercultural really caught my attention because I think as Christians today, we, we think a lot about being countercultural, think about those messages that are out in the world, and we think about how we want to. Like you said, we want this. We want to be connected to God, we want to be connected to our church. We want to follow what's there. But I think sometimes even those cultural messages can sneak into the ways that we do church, just in that whole consumer ideology. And thinking about, I don't like the music, it doesn't minister to me. I don't like the, you know, the way that we are changing this, because I like the way that this is done and, and changing that consumer mindset that's in the church. I don't think we often think of that as being countercultural, but it really is. And we can learn messages from the first century church. And I know, Jared, that you're even talking about there are ways that a church can use this curriculum, can use your book to walk in small groups, to see, seek deeper connections. So what practical steps or advice do you have for churches or small groups who want to use marked by Joy, who say, let's have a bigger conversation about this.

>> Jared Mitzelfelt: Yeah, I think, I think I wrote it in such a way where it could be used for small group settings. I have discussion questions after every, after every chapter. There's questions even for self reflection throughout the chapters as well. And I did take a special emphasis on kind of groups in mind when I was talking about and wrote about complete, joy and how complete joy is found in community. So I outline.

>> Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, hang on, I'm gonna hold you right there because here we are, Jared, against the second break already. I think this is something that really needs to be talked about and it's not being talked about enough. And when we come back, I'm gonna ask you about some specific things in your book. We'll give more guidance to churches, but we'll talk about joy idols, joy thieves and joy in suffering. More on joy right after this break. During the Christmas season of 1976, I sat down one night to watch television. One man saw the battle coming. If we lose this cultural war, we're going to have a hedonistic, humanistic society. And he chose to stand and fight. If you will not respect our beliefs, then you will respect our money and we'll spend it with somebody else. Reverend Wildmon Reverend Wildmon, the Reverend Donald Wildmon. Discover the story of the culture warrior Don Wildmon and how he went head to head with Hollywood playboy, the homosexual agenda and the Disney empire. Things were changing and many people just sort of acclimated to it and Don Wildmon didn't. They thought, I think, that they could just crush him. The movement Don started paved the way for Christians to boldly stand for truth and righteousness in a hostile culture. Watch Culture Warrior today for free. Visit culturewarrior.movie

>> Holy Forever by Chris Tomlin: Your name is the highest, your name is the greatest. Your name stands above them all. And the angels cry. All creation cries. Holy. You are lifted high. Holy. Holy forever.

>> Dr. Jessica Peck: Welcome back, friends. That is Holy Forever by Chris Tomlin.

We're talking to Pastor Jared Mitzelfeld about joy

Welcome back to this conversation I am having about joy. I'm talking to Pastor Jared Mitzelfelt His book is marked by joy, discovering the joy that defined the first believers. And you know, when I look at things right before the break, I was just sharing with Pastor Jared that I hear I get a lot of questions from people. And people generally want to talk about things that are in our control. They want to talk about things that are our common enemies. Let's talk about how we need to, you know, fight the scourge of technology that is impacting. And we want those things that seem very concrete and seem like, okay, we can overcome those things, but joy is something that's difficult to talk about. And as Pastor Jared shared at the beginning of the show, people know inherently that happiness is different from joy, but can't really articulate what that is. And, and Jared has articulated so well for Us that, that is, that missing piece is connection, being connected to God and to others. And he's defined joy as a supernatural emotion empowered by the Holy Spirit when we are deeply connected to Jesus and others. And Jared, before the break, we were talking about how you wrote this book to be formulated to invite people, especially small groups, into a further discussion about joy. And so I'll let you finish giving that information out so that if someone's listening and thinks, I want to have a small group, maybe in my church, maybe in my home, maybe at my workplace over lunch, I want to invite people to have a discussion about this book, how it's set up for them to do that.

>> Jared Mitzelfelt: Yeah. So I, in one of my chapters, I discuss what complete joy is. and I, I've discovered that complete joy is found in the community. And so one of the chapters that I, I unpack that is on complete joy. And so what I did was with groups in mind, I kind of coach and give a guidance on how to love one another in a group setting. Setting. Now it could be applicable to all relationships, but I think for us, group groups is so needed. it's just people that you're committed to in your, in your local body of Christ, in your church. And so I have like an acronym that, that kind of coaches on, a group to. On how to love one another deeply so that the, that joy can flourish and have that complete joy. So the acronym is what I call tribes. And so, you know, and you look at the Bible and, and you see, you know, tribes all over the place. It's just a group of people that are together. They're. They're connected in some way. We're connected because of Jesus. And so that's why we're connected. And so tribes is Tell one another the truth. That's the first t. Tell one another the truth. We're only as healthy as we are honest. And so that's confessing sin. That's, not trying to hide or wear masks. so that's the t. Rejoice with one another. We ought to celebrate with one another. Like celebrating is worship. It's. We are, we are directing our worship towards God and we're thankful to Him. And so we rejoice with what God is doing in each other's lives. So we rejoice. then the eye is intercede with for one another. So we pray for one another. I, I highlight, the, the armor, of God in Ephesians, six and, and how with all the armor, there's One part that's missing, that's actually exposed, and it's the back. And that's because you're supposed to have somebody have, each other's back in prayer. And so we intercede for one another. The bee is bear one another's burdens. And so that literally means to carry weight. And so we are to carry the weight of life. Life, for one another. Life is hard. We have struggles, and we're with one another, committed to one another to carry those heavy burdens. No one's supposed to carry those things alone. the E is encourage one another. And so we're supposed to cheer one another on as parents, as husbands and wives, as co workers, as followers of Jesus, work to cheer one another on, to get to the finish line. And then also. And then the last is S is serve one another. we are from Jesus. We were called to serve each other. Just like the. The washing of the feet that he did with his disciples. If you want to be the greatest, you have to be a servant. And so we ought to be the chief feet washers, and there's nothing that we're unwilling to do for one another, to serve. And so that's kind of like an outline that I give in, the book. I think it's helpful for any group that's just looking to go deeper on how to love one another. And so I highlight that, and we find that pretty helpful at our church, too.

>> Dr. Jessica Peck: I think that is really helpful in looking at those connections. And I look back at times in my life, Jared, and I think of one time in particular where we were just kind of like you were describing going through it. It just felt like a health avalanche, like anything that could go wrong went wrong. And. And we had been dealing with a lot, but there was one particular moment in time where my son broke his arm at the exact same time they thought my husband was having a stroke. And both were in the hospital separately. And I'm torn. I don't know, you know, who to go to, where to be with. And. And, you know, it was. It was a point of. Of great distress. And I just started texting the people that I was connected to and in my life group at church. And let me tell you, those people were there at the hospital before I could even finish texting. You know, it felt were there, and they were, okay, let's mobilize. Let's pick up our kids. Let's get, you know, make sure everyone's fed. Let's do everything that needed to be done. And I just think, how do you do life outside of that? And you're just really making me think a lot, Jared, about finding joy through those connections. And maybe, you know, wasn't like, oh, this is the happiest day of my life, because it certainly wasn't, but I could still find joy in that. And through that connection and through those, that connection to others, I felt the connection to Jesus, who I knew cared about me and who had enabled this group of people around me to be the hands and feet of Christ in that moment. But there. And everybody wants that. Like we think, yes, yes. nobody's gonna say, yeah, that sounds like a terrible idea and we shouldn't do it. But there's so many obstacles that get in our way. And you talk about some of those obstacles that I wanna go through just quickly. We won't have time to go really deep into this. I hope people will pick up a copy of the book.

You talk about our pursuit of counterfeit gods in your new book

But one of the first things you talk about is idols. And, and this is something also, Jared, that really resonated with me as I walked these ancient paths. There are still idols standing. I mean, and we think, oh, I would never worship a statue, but we do worship other things in our lives. And you talk about our pursuit of those counterfeit gods. And looking in the book, you talk about the idols of food and drink and the idol of money, which I think people could really relate to, or the idol of possessions, the idol of entertainment. And some of the things that you, some of the statistics that you share in your book were really eye openening. I have it here. And you said, did you know that the pornography industry generates more revenue than abc, NBC and CBS revenues combined and more than NFL, NBA and MLB revenues combined? You said also people view more Internet pornography every month than Amazon X, formerly Twitter and Netflix combined. And you also go on to talk about the idol of achievements and the idol of career and the idol of fame that, we literally have a show called American Idol when we talk about this. And idols are something that really get in the way of our joy. So give us a little preview of the lesson that you provide in, in your book on this.

>> Jared Mitzelfelt: Yeah, I, I got to that chapter after coming to le. Realize that joy is about abiding in Jesus this and it's fundamentally mentally about connection. And so what I came to realize is that it's not that we're. Because it's not that we're attempting to get a, a counterfeit joy, because I think the language that had been used For a while is that like happiness is a counterfeit joy. And that's what we're pursuing. And I was upon research, I was like, I don't think that's the issue. I think the, the issue is actually deeper. It's not that we're pursuing a counterfeit joy. We're, we're, we're going after counterfeit gods to give us joy. And so, you know, the language that I use is that we're trying to find joy apart from Jesus instead of abiding in Jesus and in our hearts were created to worship, you know, we were created to worship God. God. But because of our brokenness and our sin nature, we tend to worship other things. We give our attention and affection. We turn to other things to give us comfort, and ultimately we turn to other things to give us joy. And so I outline several things, that we turn to, to give us joy. We just think that if we have a certain possession or if we have a certain relationship or if we achieve, you know, our biggest dreams, that, that will give us joy. And it's just false advertisement. It really is, it is a work of the enemy that, that that that puts these things out and advertises these things. And it's just we may get it and we come to realize it's not that and then we're depressed. You know, I see it, I see it all the time. Time. So.

>> Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, I found it particularly convicting just to go through that list and to think, yes, even in modern day society we may not. You know, recently I was at the Parthenon and looking at Paul preaching, in the shadow of that, in the shadow of the Acropolis and looking at these physical idols that people were worshiping, but still some of the same idols that you talk about today. And I think about how Jesus warned of us, warned us of this. The thief comes to steal and kill and destroy. And there are a lot of things that steal our joy too. Now I will be really honest with our listeners, Jared, and there's one thing in this joy thieves, chapter that I don't know if is true. And I'm gonna have to push back on you a little bit. You talked about Shohei Otani and how he might be the greatest baseball player on the planet right now. So that might discredit you with some baseball. No, I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding, but I'm just kidding. I'm, I am a big baseball fan. But you talked, you know, you really made that, that kind of connection there and told us and made a connection there on how our joy is. Is stolen. So even though it's about Shohei Ohtani and I'm a big Astros fan, I know, let all the haters hate, you know, tell us, tell us how our joy is stolen too.

>> Jared Mitzelfelt: Yeah, I had to make a distinction between a joy idol and a joy thief. A, joy. A joy idol is something that we're pursuing, actively, actively pursuing to give us trust, joy. Whereas joy thieves are stealing our joy and we have no idea that's happening. And so I outlined a bunch of things. The big thing, the first thing that I unpacked was our screens. you know, we look at statistics and I know you've, you're big on it and, and you have that side which is so helpful. but just since since smartphones have been out, our, our engagement with people has diminished significantly. are like face to face, eyeball to eyeball time with one another. we even saw the drop in 2008 and we think, well, what happened in 2008? Well, that's when the smartphone came out, the iPhone. And that's honestly when our phones became our friend. And, we get that like, counterfeit connection that we get through screens, through texting and ah, group chats and social media. it gives us little snippets of connection, but it's not real. It's superficial. And so our screens, the amount of time that we spend on screens, definitely makes us disconnected.

Jared Mitzelfelt talks about forgiveness and unforgiveness in Christianity

but also I would even say like one of the big things too, that we talk about, that I talk about is forgiveness or unforgiveness. you know, we're talking about trying to, trying to be in community and love one another. And I think one of the things that we do do that we've adopted from the culture is the cancel culture. It's not just like a worldly thing, but it's also in the church too. It's like, if you hurt me, you know, if you hurt me or if I've been hurt by the church, then I'm going to cancel you. You know, I'm going to walk away, I'm going to leave group. I'm not going to talk to you. I'm going to leave the church instead of working through it with the people that hurt you and, and forgive. Give, you know, another sports, analogy, I guess. But, you know, Deion Sanders said a couple seasons ago when he was talking to the media is like, I keep receipts. And which means that what he was Referring to is there's people have been talking bad about him and his program. He's letting him know that I keep receipts and we're going to get back at you on the football field, which is awesome sports talk. I love that, that it's very competitive smack, talk. But I think we do that in the church. We keep receipts. Like when somebody hurts us, we. We keep a record of wrong. And we're say. We're saying that you're going to pay for that and I'm gonna. The way that you hurt me, I'm gonna hurt you. And sometimes a lot of it is just my absence. I don't want anything to do with you, so I'm gonna walk away from you. and that's not biblical. Like, we're supposed to work through difficulty. Guilty. We're supposed to work through, hurt and offenses, and we're to forgive. And I think unforgiveness is one of those things that is a sneaky joy thief because it makes us disconnected. If we just cancel each other when we're hurt, then all we're going to be left with is shallow relationships because it's actually through that tension and that, conflict. Once we work through those things, then we have a deeper connection with them. We have a deeper relationship.

>> Dr. Jessica Peck: You know, Jared, in the words of my team member Richard here, who runs our board, radio is so rude. We're at the end, and I feel like we are just at a cliffhanger. And this conversation is to be continued. So much conviction in what you said. I have so much to say. We may just have to have another conversation. Listen. The book is Jared Mitzelfelt Marked by joy. Discovering the joy that defined the first believers. And I hope that wherever you are that you find joy and that in your pursuit of it, the Lord may bless you and keep you and make his face shine upon you. And I'll see you right here tomorrow.

>> Jeff Chamblee: The views and opinions expressed in this broadcast may not necessarily reflect those of the American Family association or American Family Radio.

Pastor Jared Mitzelfelt joins Jessica to talk about the joy that defined the first believers.

Rx for Hope: Be Someone who Others See as Marked by Joy

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