Hello and welcome to the Dr. Nurse Mama show, prescribing Hope for Healthy Families here on American Family Radio. Here's your host, professor, pediatric nurse practitioner, and mom of four, Dr. Jessica Peck.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, hey there, friends, and welcome, to my favorite part of the afternoon, getting to spend time with you, prescribing Hope for Healthy Families. And what are we talking about today? We are talking about trading worry for worship. And we're talking about something that impacts every person on the planet to some extent. Some of us every now and then is a normal human emotion, and some of us to the point of disability. We're talking about anxiety. But today we'll talk about really what happens when anxiety meets faith. And how do we find God in that trembling? My guest today is Blair Linne She is known for her powerful spoken word artistry and her ability to merge deep theology with raw honesty. And she has written a book called Made to Tremble How Anxiety Became the Best Thing that Ever Happened to My Faith. Now, that right there is a pretty radical statement because pretty much none of us welcome anxiety when it comes into our life. It is really, really difficult. It's uncomfortable mentally, emotionally, physically. And it's not something that our, first response is usually gratitude. But I'm really anxious for you to hear, pun intended. Blair's story, as she invite, invites you to see anxiety not as a spiritual failure. That's important to me. That's important for you. But it's really a doorway to deeper dependence on a God who is never anxious. I say this all the time, but when things happen that are beyond our control, when things happen that are beyond our comprehension, when, when we feel blindsided by things, God is not pacing the throne room of heaven saying, oh, no, what's going to happen now? He is sovereign. And that can be one of hardest things to, to understand and frankly to accept about God's character, that he is sovereign. And I often cling to the verse from, verse From Psalms, Psalm 84:11. The Lord God is a son and a shield. He gives grace and glory. No good thing does he withhold from those who walk uprightly. And while we may not see anxiety as a good thing at all, God can use it for our good and for our glory. And Blair's here to share her writing and her story that her weakness really became a port to her success. And that's a lesson that many of us need when fear and anxiety just feel all consuming and overwhelming. So, Blair, thank you so much for joining us today. We're so glad to have you.

Blair Linne: Thank you. So much for having me. It's glad. I'm glad to be here with you.

Blair writes a book about dealing with anxiety and panic attacks

Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, Blair, let's just start and tell us a little bit about who you are, your story, and what happened to bring you here to this moment to give us this message.

Blair Linne: Yeah. So, you know, I never would have considered myself to be an anxious person. I, remember friends of mine who would come to me expressing their struggles with anxiety, and I would just tell them, just trust the Lord, just read a little more scripture, and everything will be fine. Almost like a prescription. You know, take two scriptures, and it'll be good. And in 2015, all of that changed. our young family, we moved to Philadelphia to help plant a church. And so we're a young family in ministry. We had three kids, three and under. My youngest was four weeks old. So I couldn't even help with the move once we m moved. so it's a new city for me, you know, new community. And a couple months in, we go to visit my family in Michigan. And we're going to take this trip where we're driving, you know, from Philly to Grand Rapids, Michigan. And I get behind the wheel, and out of nowhere, a deer comes and totals our car. And it was so unexpected. You know, I knew it was deer season, so I was watching on the right side, because I saw the deer was there. This deer came from the left, so totally caught me off guard. Initially, we were so thankful everyone was physically fine, but little did I know, maybe about a week later, while driving, I just shared about the accident with some friends of mine, who expressed their concern.

Blair Linne: And as I'm driving, all of a sudden, I feel as though I can't swallow. I can't, like, take in a deep breath. And so that concerns me. I try to roll down the window, you know, to get some fresh air in. And as I roll down the window, it doesn't help. And so all of a sudden, my heart is pounding, it's racing. and I'm assuming this must be a medical emergency. You know, I call my husband, I tell him something's wrong. I've never felt like this before.

Blair Linne: And so he said, just make it home. we go to the er and as we get to the er, you know, they run all of the test, ekg, all the things, and they say, you're fine. Everything's fine. And so, you know, things started to calm. And so I said, okay, well, I don't feel fine, but I don't know exactly what this is. No One said, this is a panic attack or an anxiety attack. I really had no concept of what was really happening. And it just spiraled me into a season of feeling anxious all day, every day, panic attack after panic attack. And, you know, I write in the book, it really is my journey of how the Lord met me. Because, again, I didn't think that Christians could deal with anxiety. I just thought, oh, you know, it's an easy fix. And so as I'm dealing with these physiological symptoms then, but yet on the hunt for sin, questioning my relationship with God, you know, what have I done something, you know, to bring this on? What am I doing wrong? the Lord really met me in the thick of the battle. and it didn't start off where I said anxiety was the best thing that ever happened to my faith. Initially, I thought this might be one of the worst things happening. I think if anyone has felt anxiety or panic attacks, you know, how difficult of a trial it is. it does not feel good at all. but I'm just so thankful for what the Lord has taught me in the midst of, one of the most difficult seasons of my life.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Blair, there is so much to unpack there. And the first thing that I want to say is thank you. Thank you so much for sharing your story, because I know, I know that. I know that. I know I have the conviction to the core of my soul that there are people listening who are going to realize for the first time that they had a panic attack and that that's what that was. So I think that that's important to share. And. And so, there's three things that I want to point out from your story. The first thing is, when we haven't experienced it, we do tend to simplify it. Take I love. I've never heard it said that way, but I'm stealing it now. Take two scriptures and call me in the morning. Because most of the time the scripture that we share is be anxious for nothing. And then that's all that we only share that little truncated part of that scripture. Be anxious for nothing. Like, it's just that simple. Just don't be anxious. The rest of that scripture says, but in everything with prayer and supplication, present your requests to God, and the peace of God will guard your hearts and minds in Christ Jesus, and with gratitude. And so it gives us a positive intention. So it's. It's not that. Ah, it's not that simple. That's the first thing that I would say. The second thing that I would say Is even though you had, a triggering event with that deer, which I can't even imagine how scary that was. We don't usually have that down here in Texas, although I have been in a car accident and hitting a cow and, so. But still scary. Like such a scary experience. Totaled the car. But also postpartum anxiety is something that people don't talk about. And you have a four week old baby. We talk more about postpartum depression. We don't talk about postpartum anxiety. So I just want to put that out there. That that is a thing. And the third thing is that way that you felt during that panic attack. Now, for me, being a nurse, I have sat and held many, many hands of people who truly felt like they were dying. That the experience is so viscerally physical, it's very hard to walk to that moment to think, oh, this is anxiety.

When did you realize this is a panic attack?

So I want you to take us there, Blair. You. You start to realize, when did you realize this is a panic attack? And then what did your path start to look forward in recovery?

Blair Linne: Yeah. So there were, you know, as I mentioned, a few more trips to the er, trying to figure it out. And I don't understand why they didn't just say this is what this is. No one ever communicated it. But what I ended up doing, I reached out to some older women because we were helping plant this church. We were kind of viewed as like the older saints, you know, in the church. And I didn't know anyone in my local context who had dealt with anything like what I was experiencing. So I just sent out kind of a little mass email of some older saints, some older women that I used to attend church with, and said, this is what's going on. I had this car accident. I'm struggling to drive. I mean, I couldn't even drive beyond five or ten minutes without hyperventilating. I mean, it's the dead of a Philly winter. I have to take my coat off, the heat is off because I'm getting hot, you know, I feel like I'm gonna faint when I drive. So I'm concerned. Should I drive ever again? Should I not? And so having to persevere and push and continue to drive, even though it was only 10 minutes, and then 20 minutes and then 30 and then an hour for about two years, I could drive no more than an hour. Then finally, with someone else in the passenger seat, I could drive for three hours. And then finally I could drive to D.C. you know, that three hour trip, from, Philly back to Philly on my own. So it was like years. It was kind of step by step. But these older women, they responded to my email saying, oh, I've experienced that. I've dealt with that. You know, when I go to Target, sometimes I'm overstimulated. What you have going on. This sounds like an anxiety. a sister who's, a pastor's wife sent me some resources in the mail. One was a very helpful guide, which I do reference in the book. and it just walked through. Even the difference between a panic and a heart attack. Like that was helpful for me because the next time I had a panic attack, just to know, well, no one's ever died from a panic attack. Okay, thank you, Lord. Like, that is good news when you feel like death is at the door. so it was really these women who rallied around and said. One said, well, I'm struggling with a thyroid issue. I'd have my thyroid removed. And as a result, I'm dealing with anxiety. and so I was so thankful. But I also wondered, why don't we have these conversations more? You know, I think if I wouldn't have reached out and asked, I may have never known. And I just feel that there's so many people who are struggling, and they just don't know. They don't know what to do. They don't know how to process what's happening with their body. and I think sometimes, you know, we have a category for sinful fear. We have a category for the fear of God. We don't. And I open up this category of natural fear, which, these three categories of fear taken from the Puritan John Flavel, which I think is helpful. You know, this is a brother, a theologian from the 1600s, you know, and he opens up this category of natural fear that, you know, God has made our bodies so that actually having natural fear is a good thing. You know, it helps keep us alive. This sense of, you know, if a car is on your child, how a person's able to have the adrenaline, right, to lift up the car. And I know, you know, the science behind all of that, like, that's a good thing, right? In a moment of danger. And so what happened was my body would wake me up around the time of the accident, which was around midnight to 1 in the morning, almost every morning, saying, danger. Or if I'm on a turnpike, saying, danger, what if another deer comes? Danger. Like, be aware, be alert, which is a good thing. But because of the fall and the fact that we're In a fallen world, sometimes it becomes this, thing that really kind of seeks to control our life. And we want control. We want to control our cares because we have these legitimate concerns. and so what the Lord ultimately pointed me to was the fact that I'm not in control, you know, but he is. I have a God who has sufficient resources, as you said, who's never afraid. He's never found biting his nails. He's never worried, you know, and he's in control of the deer. He's in control of my ability to drive. Right. He's in control of all things. And so I had to learn, even as you said, to take those scriptures which we hear portions of them, but to see them in their full context, to say, okay, okay, what does it mean to cast my cares? How do I give my cares over to you? Or to see a scripture that's often used almost as a rebuke, like fear not, because it is the most often used command in scripture. But we forget the other part. For I am, with you. I will be your help. I will guide you. We leave that part off and we just use it almost as a rebuke or as a harsh word against ourselves and against our friends who come to us for help in the midst of their fear. And so, yeah, it's so sweet when we see it in context.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Amen. Amen. And amen, Blair, to all the things. Yes. Taking that scripture in context is so important. Fear not. Have I not commanded you? Be strong and courageous for the Lord. Your God will be with you wherever you go. And I think we do ourselves such a disservice when we truncate that scripture and don't take take it in context. But again, just so encouraged by all of those things. When we come back, I'm going to talk to Blair about some of the lies that we, as followers of Jesus, tend to believe about anxiety. You won't want to miss this discussion. I'll be right back with more from Blair Linne author of Made to Tremble How Anxiety Became the Best Thing that Ever Happened to My Faith A recent Danish study revealed something heartbreaking. Just one year after an abortion, women were 50% more likely to need psychiatric treatment and 87% more likely to experience personality or behavioral disorders. That's not women's health care. That's trauma. But at preborn, women find the real kind of care, the kind that heals. When a woman walks into one of preborn's network clinics, she's welcomed with open arms. She's introduced to her baby through an ultrasound and for the first time she sees life not loss and she's offered hope filled choices. When she chooses life. Preborn continues walking with her for up to two years, providing maternity clothes, diapers, counseling and so much more. Preborn cares for the whole woman, body, mind and soul and the precious baby growing inside her. As you think about your year end giving, consider the greatest investment you could ever make. The gift of Life. Dial pound250 and say the keyword baby that's pound250 baby or visit preborn.com/drnursemama that's preborn.com/drnursemama all gifts are tax- deductible and PreBorn is a five star rated charity. preborn.com/AFR. come have your way Would you.

Sound Of Heaven by Tasha Layton featuring Chris McClarney: Move in power Turn every heart to you we are desperate for what only you can do Come have your way Come have your way Come have your way Come have your way have your way Bring the sound of heaven Let your mighty wind come rushing through Lord, our hearts are open. With the. Saints and angels we sing to you Come have your way Come have your way Come have your way.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Welcome back friends. That is Sound of Heaven by Tasha Layton featuring Chris McClarney. And let me tell you something, those lyrics are much easier said than done. If you sing those lyrics from your heart and you ask God to come have your way in me, then he may take you up on that. And I'm talking today to a guest who has experienced just that. And her experience brought anxiety. I'm talking to Blair Linne And I'm talking to her about Her book made to tremble how anxiety became the best thing that ever happened to my faith. Do you think that you could ever say something like that about something in your life that happens that's most unwelcome? Now, Blair has shared with us she did not feel that way at first, but it's a journey. And one of the most relatable parts of Made to Tremble honestly, in my opinion, is Blair's honesty about how anxiety just seeps into every corner of our life. Our thoughts, our relationships, our homes, our family, our finances, our future plans, our workplaces, our ministry. But through stories and scripture, she shows us in such a beautiful way that we were never meant to bear our burdens alone, but to cast them onto the shoulders of our Savior. And she's already been quoting that scripture many times.

Blair talks about how God made our bodies and fear is a good thing

And Blair, before the break, you were describing your experience, your physical experience with anxiety and talking about how God made our bodies and fear is a good thing. Fear is a warning Fear is a safety mechanism that we have. Fear is an alert to us to change our behavior so that we can protect ourselves. And the way that I've heard it described is that if you're walking in the woods and you run into a bear, your flight or fright or freeze or fawn, even that can be a, ah, response to try to make friends with the bear. But that. That sometimes that fawning, response can be a Tron trauma response. So I want to make sure that I include that in there. But that's a normal thing when you see a bear. Now, what happens sometimes is that your brain short circuits in a way, and you bring that bear home with you, and all of a sudden it just pops out from under your bed or from your closet, and you have that physiological fear response that it's not supposed to happen. Went there. And that's a little bit of what you were describing, Blair.

Some of the lies that we tell ourselves about anxiety are untrue

And where I want to start is some of these lies that we believe about anxiety. Because if we even translate this to the bear analogy, we're like, oh, we'll just take the bear back to the wood. Just kind of oversimplify the response to that. But what did you learn in all of this? That are some of the lies that we tell ourselves about. About anxiety?

Blair Linne: Yeah, I mean, I think. Yeah, when it is sinful fear, I think we. We often tell ourselves, everything that comes to my mind is true. You know, if it comes to my mind, it must be true. And I think another, lie, especially for a Christian, is that death is the worst thing that can happen to me. You know, so death is to be feared as a Christian. And so sometimes what's underneath those fears is this feeling of not being safe. and so sometimes we want control, but ultimately, what the Lord showed me is we. We need safety. We need safety. And so we need to see, well, what does God say about death for the Christian? So if the worst thought that we have, oh, man, I have this ache, does it mean that I have cancer? We have those thoughts that come to our mind. And so how do we first of all not believe the very first thing that comes to our mind, but also see, okay, even if it is. Even if the worst case scenario did play out, I am always safe in God. I don't have to fear he is over death. Actually, I think another lie that I see especially Christians believing is that God has abandoned me in the midst of my fear. And I remember talking with a young lady who was struggling with panic attacks and anxiety, and she just Said, you know, I feel like God is so far away from me in this, and I'm, on the hunt. You know, I use the example of, like, hunting for sin. Like a game of whack a mole or like a fruit ninja. You know, it's like, slice all of these, you know, fruit, cut it down. Cut down these thoughts. But it's almost like we fight anxiety with anxiety. Sometimes, yes, we are to take our thoughts captive, but not even to do that in an anxious way. We have to do that in a trusting way. and so I told her, I said, you know, don't forget Romans 8. You know, nothing will separate you from the love of God, not even an anxiety attack. Because if you are in the thick of your battle with anxiety, and you feel like the one who has all the resources, who can actually deliver you out of this, who gives you truth to hold on to in the midst of it, if you feel like he's far away, where are you going to turn? You know, where is your hope going? To rest. and so bring the Lord into your anxiety. Don't see anxiety as, you know, oh, God has abandoned me. He is far away. So I believe that is a why that, we need to acknowledge. See, I also didn't know how to cast my cares over to the Lord. I think sometimes we hear these scriptures, but maybe it's too hard or there's too much going on in my mind. And there were moments where I felt like my mind and my thoughts were swirling so much, and the rumination, you know, was going, how do I find the truth? and so I think sometimes it can be easy to just say, okay, well, maybe I've been diagnosed or labeled with this. This is the way it will always be. And I want to say that's not true, you know, even if you have this label. I remember seeing my doctor write, generalized anxiety disorder, and I said, okay, Lord, I'm going to suffer with this. But what I learned actually was my nervous system needed a different reality. I needed to learn that the way that things were going and kind of this anxious state of always feeling like I'm on edge, because I long for safety. I had to find that my safety was only in the one right, who has full control. And the, more that I was able to behold God, and to him, m. Ask him what I have within myself. Because I believe, like, anxiety, it lets you know that you're weak. You know, when. And I give the example there's a sister who is paraplegic And I give an example of her in the book because I was praying with her one day in a prayer meeting and she asked God for the ability to breathe. And I remember it just struck me because I had never, I never heard anyone ask God for the ability to breathe. And the reason that she was so dependent and needy was because the reason that she was so dependent and needy was because of the fact that she had had to rely upon God for something that the truth is we all need God for. But our circumstances don't always set us up to see our need. When you are anxious and you need help to breathe, you realize, you realize that you are not in control. And you realize that there is one who is. And so it's the perfect opportunity to set us up for dependence upon the God who is in control. And so, you know, being able to see that, I have God, you know, whether I'm labeled this way the rest of my life, if I have to struggle with anxiety, high levels or low levels rest of my life, it doesn't. That's not so much the concern. You know, it is a concern, but it's who I have in the midst of it with me. That's really where the Lord was able to kind of shift my vision towards. And that is what gave me the peace of God in the midst of feeling out of, you know, synced with my body every day. and so, yeah, you know, Blair.

Dr. Jessica Peck: What you're saying is so countercultural. And when we hear of mental health struggles today, a lot of times the narrative is self help, you know, that you've got to help yourself and that you are strong enough and that you are brave enough and that you are enough. And all of these messages of self reliance, which it's impossible. I can't imagine having to rely on myself to pull myself out of the pit of anxiety, out of the pit of childhood trauma, out of the pit of whatever it is that you have faced. In that way, it is so radically different. What you are talking about, and you've said so many times, is casting your cares upon the Lord. Just fear not, because we know that he is with us and trusting in God's sovereignty. These are all things that I think that maybe, you know, people who are on the outside of faith would look in and say, that seems wild to me.

You explore the idea that we are made to tremble before God

But one of the core idea that you explore in your book is that we are made to tremble. That is the title of your book, To Tremble before God. And that can sound like, okay, well, nobody wants to Tremble. Nobody wants to tremble with anxiety. But you present what that looks like, to tremble before God. How is that different than trembling in fear of our circumstances?

Blair Linne: Yeah. And I think it is exactly seeing God beholding him, ah, as worthy and as the one who is sovereignly in control. You know, there's a passage of Scripture which says, tremble, oh, earth, at the presence of the Lord, at the presence of the God of Jacob, we are called to tremble before him. And I think people misunderstand that. Tremble because they think of, oh, am I supposed to be afraid of God? You know, as though, like, you know, he's the mean God that I can't, you know, I don't know how to interact with. And this is not a terror because we're concerned as believers about condemnation. This is not a fear that has to do with punishment. This is, a fear because we are in awe. We have a reverence for our God. So our punishment has been placed upon Christ. If we are in Christ, we are new creatures, right? And so when God looks upon us, the Father sees the Son, right? The righteousness of Christ that has been placed upon us. And so why do we tremble before God? Because he's worthy of all glory and honor and power. Because he's holy. So this is a sanctified reverence. and it's inspired by love, and it's inspired by respect. It reminds me of, you know, Isaiah 6. You know, Isaiah. He says, I saw the Lord, you know, high and lifted up, and the train of his robe filled the temple. And then what did he do? He said, you know, I am unworthy. You know, I have unclean lips. He humbled himself when he was in the presence of God. he worshiped being in the presence of God. And I think that weakness and that dependence that I have found in the midst of my anxiety journey, only heightened my depend, my reverence for my Savior and my Father. And I think that that is the best place to be. It's interesting because even as the Lord began to wean me out of feeling anxious every single day, remember telling the Lord, but please don't take what I learned. Don't take the dependence that I learned in the midst of it. And, you know, as I was kind of coming out, it was just around the time of COVID And so friends, you know, in my local church were gathering and saying, you know, I know that you struggle with anxiety. I'm dealing with it now. You know, how did you get over? What did the Lord do, for you? And so I'VE been able to speak into, you know, those lives and those people that I love. And actually that's what inspired the book because I never thought I would write about anxiety. but you know, I just felt like, okay, if the Lord is helping people in my local context, maybe, you know, the church globally will be helped by this. and so I'm just so grateful. Yeah. To say, this is the trembling we were made for. We were made to honor the Lord. And sometimes we do that even in the midst of our physical trembling, you know, because, yeah, it can be that suffering, that we're experiencing, but we were made to tremble. But for the Lord, that is our primary means to which we, we tremble.

Dr. Jessica Peck: That again, I think that is radically countercultural and such an important reframing. And one of the things I appreciate, Blair, is that, you know, you've talked about the different elements of your, of how anxiety impacted you. You have talked about how it impacted you physically, your body, and making you think you're having a heart attack. You've talked about how it impacted your thought pattern, and you've talked about how it impacted you emotionally and spiritually. And every person's with anxiety is different. And the first question that you've got to answer is this, you know, normal on the spectrum of human emotion, or does it rise to the level of a disorder that needs some team based approach and that's going to look different for everyone? You talked about even a medical diagnosis. And I, I know from sitting on the other side of that, just seeing that diagnosis, generalized anxiety disorder or whatever, major depressive disorder or whatever that diagnosis is, that's a really hard place to come to. But, but I believe that it, it's not just one of those planes. And sometimes we just treat it on a medical plane and sometimes we look at it just on that counseling thought train, you know, taking your thoughts captive. And sometimes we look at it just on a spiritual plane and we, we make it overly spiritual without recognizing that God did make our bodies and he did gift people to help us speak into that with wisdom and, and, and, and help in that time. And so there's so much more to talk about, Blair.

There's a piece called Our Resurrected Hope Amid Suffering

But I know that you are a spoken word artist and we just have about a minute left. I would love for you to give an example of a spoken word.

Blair Linne: Yeah, so there's a piece called Our Resurrected Hope Amid Suffering that's actually in the back of the book. And it goes like this. Suffering never tastes sweet, Never mango ripe. It is a bitter cup. A, hip out of joint. Suffering is imitating God. Reminds us of our Savior, don't it? Our, God who never broke a bone but was broken bare raw like an open wound he remained when the sky turned the shade of coffee grains as black and bitter as his pain. Although he is the truth. He refused to open his mouth when he raised his hands, surrendered to the paradox, looked death square in the eye because he knew his father had the wheel, was the pilot when he was handed over to Pilate exchange for Barabbas. No guilt will receive sin's wages. What humility to bleed for only ever doing good.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Beautiful. We'll be right back. Do you believe in the absolute inerrancy of God's holy word? Do you believe in the power of the Holy Spirit to radically change lives and empower us to live like Christ? At Wesley Biblical Seminary, we believe God is raising up a movement of people across our nation and across the world who hold fast to the authority of the Bible and the hope of holiness. We are working today to equip tomorrow's pastors and Christian leaders through biblical and theological education in practical ministry. That's accredited, affordable, online, and highly personal. Our programs include undergraduate, master's and doctoral degrees, certificate programs, and even training for lay people. So whatever your next step is in being equipped for ministry, we're here for you. And if you believe these are the kinds of pastors we need leading our churches in the future. We invite you to learn more about partnering with us through giving. Learn more about Wesley Biblical Seminary by visiting us at wbs.edu today.

Christ is Risen by Tenth Avenue North: Christ is risen from the dead Trampling over death by death. Come awake, come awake Come and rise up from the grave Christ is risen from the dead. We are one with him again. Come awake, come awake Come and rise up from the grave.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Welcome back, friends. That is Christ is risen by Tenth Avenue North. And that is the invitation that we are extending to you today. Come awake, come and rise up from the grave. And maybe you feel like you are in a season where you're walking through the valley of a shadow of death. Maybe that's emotional pain. Maybe that is mental health. Maybe that is the threat of physical death that you have. But we serve a God who has conquered sin and the grave forever and extends to us an invitation to live with him in paradise for eternity. And I have been so encouraged already today in speaking with Blair Linne She's written a book called Made to Tremble How Anxiety Became the Best Thing that Ever Happened to My Faith. She's an author A speaker and a spoken word artist as you just heard her beautifully give a very small snippet of that before the break. Blair, I could listen to you talk all day and, and I'm so appreciative, Blair, that, you know, your, your book doesn't stop. It's just your own personal story, which I've sat across the microphone from so many people. And that's the story every time that God doesn't give you magically some. Oh, here, Blair, just share this, this little magic pill about anxiety. I know you haven't lived it or experienced it. No, it comes from that season of pain. and, ah, I think about the verse in Genesis from when Joseph of story, what you intended for evil, God, but God will use for good, for the saving of many lives. And I pray that your work will save lives. And you've got a lot of practical resources. You've got prayers, you've got guidance, especially for pastors and church leaders who want to walk alongside those battling anxiety. But maybe they haven't experienced it, they don't understand it, they're not sure what to think about it. They're getting a lot of different, you know, know voices that are speaking into them. And I'm so grateful that you're reminding us that anxiety is a heart and body issue. It is a spiritual issue, an emotional issue, and one that demands compassion and community and truth. And so in our last bit of time together here, Blair, I want to talk about two things. I want to talk first about some of the biblical figures that you, that you reference. because anxiety is a tale as old as time. Just open up the psalms and you will see. And then after that, I want to talk specifically to pastors and church leaders. So can you tell us first, Blair, about all, of, all the biblical figures that you reference? Which one really resonated with you the most? What can we learn from God's Word?

Blair Linne: Yeah, there are so many. And I will start by saying it's funny because the more that I've read the scripture, you realize like all of the patriarchs experience fear. Like there, it's almost like who didn't experience fear, you know? Right. I, mean, I would say I probably, I'm probably most encouraged, I would say, by Paul. and I say that because it's interesting because he's the one who says do not be anxious about anything. He also talks about his own anxiety for the church. and he gives this, I think, beautiful passage. We don't know exactly what his thorn, the Thorn in his flesh was, But it definitely was placed there in order to keep him humble, to keep him dependent for the grand visions, that the Lord had given him. and so I think, you know, the passage in Colossians really has, I think, helped me. When I was in. There was a season where I was in bed for about two or three weeks. I couldn't do anything because I was feeling dizzy and all of the symptoms. And to be reminded when he talks about the supremacy of Christ. And, there's a passage where he talks about Christ holding the universe together. Reminds me of, you know, when we were kids, we'd hear, he's got the whole world in his hands. You know, and it's like, we need to remember that God's got the whole world in his hands. But there's a passage which says, and it's the Christ hymn, and it talks about Jesus. It says he is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For by him all things were created. Things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible. Whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities, all things were created by him. And for him, he is before all things, and in him all things hold together. I mean, I think that passage, it kept me. It kept my mind when there were the moments where I felt like, am I going to go crazy? You know, that God is holding my mind together, God is holding my body together. He's holding my soul. That he's got me. like, that passage really has sustained me. But, yeah, when you look throughout the scripture, it's like Abraham and Sarah and Isaac and Jacob, like, all of the people, the disciples felt fear. Mary felt fear. But, But I would say this passage, yeah, was one that the Lord really used to sustain me and stabilize me, when I was terrified, terrified regarding what was happening, inwardly.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Blair, it's so interesting when you. When you bring up those characters, because one thing that many of them shared in common was their response to fear was to seek control. And that never worked well. Never. It always ended in tragedy and, and calamity. Just really, really poorly. But it was only in surrender. And we see that, you know, David surrendering over and over and over again. That is where release comes from. And I'm so, I'm so grateful that you shared that. I. I got goosebumps as you were reading that scripture. Because you're right. In him, all things are held together. And sometimes it may be he's got the whole world in his hands. Sometimes it's me singing Jesus loves me to me Just that simple truth and reminding myself that unless, like a child, we need that childlike faith because some things are just too big for us to understand from a God that is. Is not too small to be worshiped. We. We. He's big enough to be worshiped. And so sometimes we don't understand those things.

Blair says it was helpful to lean in to community during anxiety crisis

And you know, Blair, as you've been describing your experience, this did not happen in a vacuum. You have a family, you had a church family that you were walking through, trying to lead. And I want you to talk about that and how this impacted the family and how maybe how the church's response shaped that support for you.

Blair Linne: Yeah, this is so helpful. And I mean, I would say this is so huge because it was so helpful for me to lean in to my community. And that was hard for me to do initially. you know, I'm a pretty independent person, as I said, didn't really consider myself to be an anxious person before this. And so even in the middle of the night, I would wake up out of, you know, dreaming about dear into a panic attack. And I just started waking up my husband to say, can you pray with me? And there were those moments where I was like, ah, should I wake him up? I don't want to bother him. I'm used to handling things on my own. And it's like, nope, I need. I need support, I need help. I need prayer. And I remember another example was I was having dinner with some girlfriends, and I felt like a panic attack was coming on. And so I went to the bathroom, I threw water on my face. You know, I prayed, okay, Lord, you know, I'm not feeling great. Would you just a quick prayer, would you help me? And I just felt like it wasn't, you know, coming to any resolve. And I just said, you know what? I'm just going to go back out there. These are Christian friends. They love the Lord. I'm just going to share with them and ask for prayer. And I did. So I began to just open up my anxiety and my. My trial, my suffering to those around me and began to rethink this idea that I have to live isolated and I have to live with so much shame regarding anxiety. I would be standing in church singing and feel faint. And then I would think, oh, no, well, what if I faint here? Oh, that would be the worst thing that would happen. And they would have to call the ER and then it would just, like, my mind would. Would spiral me into feeling more anxious. Well, eventually, the Lord Gave me a clear moment where I had the thought, well, what, what if I do faint? Would that be the worst thing? Because I'm surrounded by people who love me. They would pray for me, they would care for me. And I began to reframe the inward thoughts that I had. My. My inward dialogue, I should say monologue. My. My monologue. And, as I began to change, I began to change because that shame and isolation, I think, in one sense, can keep us bound. You know, it keeps us, you know, wrestling with this thing on our own. And we were never meant, you know, to be an island. We were never meant to do this on our own. And so I would encourage people out there to welcome God into your anxiety, but also welcome your community into your anxiety. you don't have to deal with this alone. Let's take away the shame. and. And shame even about natural helps as well. You know, God has given us so much grace. You know, spiritual means that we can use to help us, like the word and prayer and rehearsing truth and taking thoughts captive and learning to cast our cares. But also there's the natural helps that we don't have to have shame. If we need medication or, you know, we need to take away the caffeine, we need a green space, blue space, we need to dance and exercise. Like, those are great things that God has given us as common grace. And so we can praise God for all of those things. But, yeah, all of those things in community, they're going to help us. Even if you have to think about medication, you need to do that in community. go take a walk with someone that you love, you know, and so let's do this together. And I want you to know, I think that's, you know, really my heart with this book is that people would know they're not alone because so many of us have suffered alone for so long. To say, I'm, in the battle with you, you know, I want to hold your hand and say, let's look at Jesus together. Let's get through this by his grace.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Blair, I so appreciate you saying that. And for those who are thinking, okay, maybe this is a time where I need to start addressing this. We have featured before the American association of Christian Counselors. You can go to their website and look for resources to connect with a Christian counselor who will help you navigate that mental health field and see what you need, from someone who shares your worldview. Focus on the family also provides a service where they will connect you to counselors. Who have been vetted by their organization to look at their spiritual and their worldview beliefs and, and can help connect you. So I would encourage you, if you're listening and wondering where to start, can be two resources to start. And Blair, when you reach out to people, you are so right. I've shared before, openly, with my daughter's permission, her own personal story with anxiety and how much, how much grace and encouragement and joy we got from. From friends who were just waiting to use their spiritual gifts, the ways that God had gifted them to bless her, whether that was. Was encouragement or hospitality or whatever. Whatever the case may be. And sometimes when you invite people into your anxiety, people don't respond well. Sometimes it's just out of meaning well, but not knowing what to say. And, and sometimes that can happen, and that is a reality. But if you isolate yourself, you're going to miss out on both. You're really going to miss a blessing.

Who can we better encourage people who are struggling with anxiety

So I'd love for you to spend just the last couple of minutes here just talking to churches and church leaders and how. And. And people who are fellow Christians. Who can we better encourage people who are walking through a struggle with anxiety?

Blair Linne: Yeah. you know, I think having that sense of compassion, even if you don't understand, because we may not understand every detail of what someone else is experiencing, because as you said, every story is different. but to come alongside in support, to not say, you know, trite things, to be cautious with what we say. I think sometimes, sometimes when you're dealing with anxiety or something that's going on inwardly, people can make comments like, well, you look fine to me. You look great. You know, like, what's the problem? so being cautious, and I kind of walk through some of those things that may be more helpful to say. it's not that a person is looking for you to understand every moment. They're just looking for you to be beside them in the moment. I think when we look at Job's friends, one of the most helpful things that I. I see that Job's friends did was those first seven days when they just sat with him. They just, they looked at him, and for seven days and seven nights, they just sat there with him. Hm. They were with him. and I think that's a great place to start. One way, another way. I should say that my church was helpful because we were a family ministry. they were helpful with, like, setting aside benevolence so that I could get counseling. There were people who came over, were offered a meal, train there were people who came over and folded laundry, you know, those three weeks when I was in bed and couldn't do anything. And so I would say for those who are struggling with anxiety, be willing to receive the help, but those who don't understand, just be willing to come alongside and say, how might I be most helpful to you? How can I walk beside you in this trial? and maybe it looks like going to a counseling session with them. You know, maybe, as I said, it looks like taking an exercise class, looking them in their eye and saying, have you eaten today? Do we need some water today? You know, like, yes. Can I watch your kids while you go and get a shower? You know, even, you know, as we talk about after having a baby, I didn't know to look for anxiety. We were always taught about the baby blues, M and M. So that wasn't even a category I had, you know, so to say, let me just come alongside and serve you, and be a good friend to you and pray with you. Maybe you can read scripture with your friends, sing a hymn with him. I have hymns throughout the book as a moment of selah and rest. there's so many different ways that you can come alongside.

Dr. Jessica Peck: So, yeah, Blair so encouraging. And, you're not the first person who has brought up Job. It was when Job's friends started talking that things went wrong, but that sitting there, just being there, your presence is so beautiful. And if you want to hear the rest of the story about how Blair was able to come to say that anxiety became the best thing that ever happened to her faith, get a copy of her book Made to Tremble. And I thank you, Blair, for reminding us that faith doesn't erase fear. It really redeems it. And that's a powerful reminder that God is all powerful and anxiety is not. And wherever you are today, as you're listening, I pray that the Lord will bless you and keep you and make his face to shine upon you and give you freedom from anxiety. We'll see you next time.

Dr. Jessica Peck: The views and opinions expressed in this broadcast may not necessarily reflect those of the American Family association or American Family Radio.

Blair Linne joins Jessica to talk about her journey through anxiety and how it became the best thing to happen to her faith.

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