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 : And welcome to the Dr. Nurse Mama show, prescribing Hope for Healthy Families here on American Family Radio. Here's your host, professor, pediatric nurse practitioner, and mom of four, Dr. Jessica Peck.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, hey there, friends, and welcome to my favorite time of day, getting to spend time with you, prescribing Hope for Healthy Families. And listen, we've got a great dose coming up for you today. It is the one of my favorite days of the month. You know, my favorite day of the week is Friday. But one of my favorite days of the month is when we get to have an episode of, the Decluttering Diaries. We started the series actually in January of last year, but it has been a runaway hit and you love it. And I'm not finished with my own journey. And as this is the Decluttering Diaries and I'm sharing my own journey along the way, we are continuing that journey today. And today we're going to talk about how it's Valentine's Day month. We have Valentine's coming up. So for all of the husbands out there listening, here's your advance warning that Valentine's Day is coming up. Plan something special for your wife or that special somebody and, and wives, plan something for your husband. But we think about love in a way that is very romanticized, very TV ready. But we're going to talk about love in a way today that has to do with clutter. I know. How in the world is that going connect? Well, it really does because it is a way to show care. And while February is good for love and connection, it is. There is a connection between love and clutter. So let's welcome back Kathi. Kathi. I'm ready for my revelation. I'm ready to learn more about decluttering. And I thank you so much for everything that you've done for all of us along the way.

Kathi Lipp: Oh, my goodness. You know, it's one of those things when you teach something, you learn it twice, Right? And so every time you and I are having these discussions, it's reinforcing it to me because as you know, Jessica, I am a Naturally. Cluttery girl. I grew up in a cluttery house. you know, I've lived a cluttery life, but, I am learning. I continue to learn new and new ways about myself, about how I view my home and how we live in it.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, when we're talking about clutter and connection, is that exactly as I was just talking about? How are those two things connected? Because for me, you know, you think like, okay, how does that have to do anything with Valentine's Day? But it really has everything to do with expressions of love. They are just intertwined inseparably. So I would love to hear your wisdom and perspective on how clutter and connection are connected.

Kathi Lipp: Yeah. And I want to be very gentle in this because. Okay. The last thing I want anybody to hear is, if you have a cluttery home, that means you don't love your family. Nothing could be further from the truth. Can we just be clear? Jessica, you are an extremely gifted person. You have accomplished a lot in your life. You have loving kids. You have a husband who adores you like they're. But you struggle with clutter. Right?

Dr. Jessica Peck: This is badly.

Kathi Lipp: Yes. And so I will fight in the streets anybody who says, because you're cluttery, Jessica, that you care less for your family. But I will say this, that we, we learn what is important to the people around us. And for some of our kids and our husband, order is less important to them. And so I don't think we need to be fighting as hard in those situations for care and comfort surrounding order. Then there are some people it's very dear to. And so it doesn't mean that just because somebody else has a standard, you always need to live up to it. But I will say there is a level, where that love, it's not just an emotion. It shows up in our environment and our habits. And also, let's just say this. Loving ourselves. I'm not talking about selfish love, but the things that we do to take care of ourselves shows up in our environment. I. I am committed to my evening routine. And I will just tell you, I used to just fall into bed when I was too exhausted to think anymore. And now my life look like you. I take my time. I wash my face, I put the moisturizer on. I pull down my covers, I put a little soft music on. Like, there's so many things I do to take care of myself that says, this is loving. And we can do that for other people as well. In fact, we practice on other people, and we Learn how to do it for ourselves. So that I think that when we declutter, we are able to have an environment where love is easier and people feel safe and taken care of.

Dr. Jessica Peck: And it's so true. I see this in my own life, Kathi, about how clutter decreases the ability to connect. Because let's go to that bedtime routine. You know, where you're washing your face, putting on the moisturizer, you know all of those nighttime routines. And if you imagine that if you're doing that and your bathroom is clean and you know exactly where your products are, and you're opening up the drawer and you take out whatever you need, you know, the toothbrush goes back in its holder and you turn around and the floor is clean and there's no dirty towels on the floor and there's no stacks of clutter up in the bedroom. That is a completely different environment, going to bed than looking at it, thinking, I'm going to bed one more night with, I can't even get to my nightstand because it just has a stack of junk all over it. Or I want to wash my face, but I can't find the soap because the drawer is a mess. And then even in those spaces, I know for marriage, it's just like, you know, you just start kind of, you know, that frustration level rises. I see it with our kids, too. Like, as you go into their bedroom, instead of going in, having that peaceful connection, like, okay, great, let's tidy up a few things. You go in and you're like, oh, this is still here. Why didn't you pick this up? Ah. where is this? Do you have your stuff for tomorrow? And you can see how that impacts the connections that we're making in our home. And I see it, and. But I think that, you know, that's just having that realization and just being honest with ourselves about it is going to help move us to a point where we're actually going to do something about it.

Kathi Lipp: It's so true. Frustration is a barrier to connection. And when we think of it that way, if I can remove some barriers in my own life, if I can remove some barriers in my home, what it's saying is, you are important to me. And also, I think it also raises the level of how we treat each other. When I say, hey, I'm going to take the next 30 minutes and take care of myself, I respect myself. I respect the body that God has given me. I respect the home that God has, you know, allowed me to have all of those things. It builds Respect in other areas of our lives and with our kids, with our spouses, all of that. And so it's this. I know that we are all really good at doing that 30 minute sprint before other people come to our house, which, let's say can be shame based. Right. I don't want anybody to know how we live, but can we think about it as hospitality for the people who live with us? And I am in zero ways suggesting that it's up to mom to do all of this. That is not because your kids are going to learn this and they're going to have it in their own home. And our, our husbands, this, this is part, you know, because we all live in the home and so this is a community based thing that we need to do together. But I will say if you just do one thing that is going to remove a barrier to connection, maybe it, is putting some of those clothes away or maybe it is knowing what's for dinner before 5 o'. Clock. And so instead of resenting having to cook because, you know, we all would be fine with girl dinner with just, you know, some cheese and a couple of carrots. And it's like, oh, but I have to cook a real meal for everybody else in the house. We can remove that resentment, resentment. And it can build connection.

Dr. Jessica Peck: You know, I remember at my wedding shower now, a long, long time ago, but there was this one precious little older lady who gave me this really beautiful silver bowl. And you know, I was probably, I was like 20 years old at the time and thinking like, oh, this is nice, you know, what do I do with this? And she grabbed me by the arms and she said, I want you to know this is not for company. This is not for your guest. This is for your husband because he's the most important guest you'll ever serve at your dinner table. And that has always stuck with me in thinking about hospitality for the people in our own homes. And I hear you, Kathi, and what you're saying is not, well, your home better be perfect so that you can connect and that people will show you that you care. But what's one barrier? Just like you said, what's one barrier? Is it your kitchen table where you haven't been able to sit and have a meal together because it's got laundry that hasn't been folded for two weeks, or it's got bills that haven't been organized, paperwork that hasn't been organized, or whatever else it is. I think it's a good practice for us to think in Our homes. Where's one place? What's one thing that we could do to remove clutter, to create a space for connection? And even just that gesture, I think, would go a long way.

Kathi Lipp: Can I tell you a story? I love the Silver Bull story. That's just amazing. you know, I've been dealing with a long term illness and some days I'm able to go downstairs and some days I'm just not. And so we've just resigned ourselves to the fact. But one thing about long term illness is it can be very isolating you. You can't really be a part of, like, what you used to be able to do. And so we have this. I, would love to call it, you know, a TV tray. What it is is the hospital tray. And oftentimes that's how I have my dinner. But my husband surprised me by ordering another hospital tray so that he could come up and eat with me. Right. He doesn't need it, but that's his connection. And so whatever your life circumstances are, it doesn't have to look like what everybody else does. I love the idea of, can we, can we clear off the kitchen table? Hey, girl, can we. We clear off half the kitchen table, right? Like, sometimes that's what we can do. And you know, right now that doesn't work for us 100 of the time, but we m. Make adjustments for what works in your home, declutter what's important to your family to keep those connections going.

Dr. Jessica Peck: I see that. even right now, I'm looking at a chair that I keep by my desk because I want my kids to be able to come in and just sit down. Know that even if my office is a disaster, there's a place for them. And I'm looking at. There's only three things on it right now. So actually that's pretty good. They can move that. It's. It's two rugs that I may or may not have gotten from Amazon. I hope my husband isn't listening, but, you know, you need. Girl needs a new spring rug every once in a while. So. Sorry, Kathi, I feel like I'm. I'm letting you down there. But I did get rid of the old ones. I didn't think, oh, is this good enough to keep? I thought, nope, this served its purpose. It's season, it's done, it's out. So I did that. Another thing that you say, Kathi, is that predictability is a form of care. And I think that that's not what people think about when they think about organizing. They Think about what is being shown to me on social media. What can I order from Amazon that's going to be the perfect organizing system? They don't think about predictability. You have some really good perspective on this.

Kathi Lipp: I have lived a pretty chaotic life. predict. My, my personality does not lend to predictability and, you know, routine. But what I've come to understand is predictability in some areas allows for freedom in all areas. And so when I know what is for dinner, I can say, you know what? We don't feel like having that tonight. We're gonna do, we're gonna, we're gonna do, you know, breakfast for dinner. And I, I already know what we have and what we don't have. Predictability says that, I go to town on Thursdays to run my errands. So if you need something, best let me know by Wednesday or Thursday morning and I am happy to get it for you. But if I am at everybody's whim all the time and everything is available all the time, and then that wears me out and builds my resentment. So I really believe that predictability lowers stress for everybody. The kids, husbands, guests. So when people know where things go, when we know that that's the scissor drawer, we people can find the scissors if we know what happens next. So after dinner, we take our dishes to the sink and we don't have to fight about it either each time. how, you know, these spaces work. When we unload the dish, dishwasher in our house, it gets put on the, the rolling cart that we have near it and then it gets put away. And we just know you don't have to keep making decisions because you know what the next thing is.

Dr. Jessica Peck: There's not what Kathi, we're. The next thing is our first break. We're already at our first break, but, and that's very sadly predictable here in radio. But when we come back, we'll talk more about how to show your family caring and how your shared spaces and clutter, or no clutter, shape your relationships. We'll be right back with Kathi Lipp Friends.

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Dr. Jessica Peck: Would you put my heart back together? I searched the world 'til my head hurt just to find out your ways better oh, your way's  better oh, your way's better oh Lord, your way's  better Jesus your way's  better Lord. Welcome back, friends. That is your way's better by Forrest Frank. And how many of you were either doing the motions of that song or thinking about doing the motions to that song? There was a little dance that went viral that goes with that song, but such a great uplifting message that God's way is so much better than our way. His thoughts are higher than our thoughts and we trust him in that way. One fun thing is that Forrest Frank is going to the Houston rodeo. Let me tell you, you could not get tickets if you tried. It is amazing to see the demand for that and I appreciate the way that he is encouraging younger generations and we're here to encourage you.

You can go to Kathy Lipp's Clutter Free Academy and join

Today I'm on with Kathi Lipp. We're having it an episode of Declutter Diaries. We are talk with Kathi about once a month. And listen, before I forget to tell you, you can go to Facebook if you're on Facebook. So if you're on Facebook, by the way, you're old according to Gen Z or my kids. But that's okay. There's plenty of friends out there who are old. We'll be all old together. Go to Kathi Lipp's Clutter Free Academy and just send a message. Say, hey, I'm from the Dr. Nurse Mama Show. They let. She lets all our friends in and she talks more about these things. So if you're interested in taking next steps, there are, there are hundreds of you, if not more than thousands of you who have gone over there and joined that. I know and I appreciate that so much because this is something we all struggle with.

Be consistent, be predictable. That's one of the best things you can do for your family

So, Kathi, before the break, we were talking about how predictability is an important part of this. And I will say, for me, from. For being a professor or being a pediatric nurse practitioner, predictability has sound science behind it. That's one of the best things that you can do for your family. Be consistent, be predictable. And some of the examples that you gave, when we were talking about this in prepping, you talked about some small examples of unpredictability. And this really hit home to me. So, for example, the remote. You can't find the remote. Nobody ever knows where the remote is. Kathi, can I just tell you how many times we have had a conversation as a family? Everybody up, turn the lights on, pull the couches, either the cushions off again. And you can see how that's like just something so simple and so dumb, honestly, that all of a sudden it's a flashpoint. You can never put it back. You don't put anything, you don't do anything. Or if the blankets aren't in the place, you go get a blanket to get on the couch and watch a movie. You can't find the lovey at night, you know, for the little toddler, the little stuffed animal, whatever, that comfort ob. Those things aren't there. All of a sudden, you have got relational chaos. You've got chaos in your home. And those things are all linked back, though, to clutter and organization.

Kathi Lipp: It's so true. And let's also say, on top of that, let's say your family is all functioning at really high levels all the time. That can be frustrating, to have clutter. But what if you're having a hard day? What if one of your kids is neurodivergent? What if somebody in your house is sick? And so if you. Because who's had a normal day recently, right? We started the day with our dog taking up off the mountain and an emergency helicopter practically landing on our roof. Like, you know, every day has its. Its own. You know, it has God's mercies every day, but it also brings its own weirdness, right? And so if you're having a rough start to the day and you can't find your keys, you're having a rough start to the day, and you don't know where the remote is, and you need to get those cartoons on so the littles can watch their show while the older. You're helping the older ones get out the door. all of these things, you know, they mount up. If you can't find the mail that has the car registration in it, and then you get pulled over on the way to work, like, it just piles on. And so if we can take that deep breath and say, what is one thing I can do today to make tomorrow easier on myself, on the rest of the family? It. It can. To get that forward perspective instead of living from crisis to crisis to crisis is a gift.

Dr. Jessica Peck: it is a gift and it can be a great Valentine's gift, honestly, for your family. Kathi. That's what we're talking about. Just what ah, is so, so far we've given you two things that you can think about. What's one space in your home that you can clear to make space for connection? And what's one thing you can do to make your life easier tomorrow to decrease the likelihood of having those flared tensions that, that, you know, compromise our connections that, that creep into our relationships in that way. Another thing that you have. That's great advice, Kathi, is talking about shared spaces, because we have shared spaces like the bedroom or like a safe. Siblings are sharing a room. If you have husband, wife sharing a room or family room where everyone's gathering, why do those spaces matter more from a clutter standpoint then, the closet that nobody's ever going to see.

Kathi Lipp: Right.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Closet I may or may not have in my house, but everybody knows, just don't go near the closet. Just don't open it.

Kathi Lipp: You know, the, the reason we're attracted to our spouse, the reason that we love things in, you know, these personality traits in our kids and we just find them so delightful is because they are so unlike ourselves. So the things that brought you together when you were dating are the things that can tend to drive you crazy once you become a family. And so, everybody has a different level of order that they feel comfortable with. Everybody has a different level of, you know, how much they protect their own space. And so when you've got, who left this here or why am I the only one who is ever getting dishes, you know, out of the living room? All of those kind of conversations, you know, they're not really conflicts, but they're kind of micro conflicts. And they're the things that we go back to every day. And if you're not comfortable in this space, you're not going to stay there. You know, you do not want to spend time in a space where you feel uncomfortable. So when we can remove, I, I don't really know there are people who can tolerate more clutter, but I don't know a lot of people who enjoy more Clutter. And so if we're able to get some of that chaos out of the space, and Maybe it's just 5% of that chaos out, but that it does something to our nervous system when we feel like some of the chaos has been removed. And when you're in a cluttered space, your eyes are pinging off of everything. It's, it's a distraction. And so if we're able to clear a little bit of that, have a little bit more space, you know, eye contact grows, we're able to linger a little bit. You actually can develop a sense of play. And, you know, cortisone levels go down, our stress hormones go down when we are in less clutter. These are real physical effects that happen to us when we declutter a space.

Dr. Jessica Peck: What you said is very. We need to stop there for a second. Because what you said, I think is relatable to every human on the planet when you talk about clutter making conflict. Because inevitably any clutter is going to eventually cause some sort of conflict. It just does. Whether you can't find something, you can't sit somewhere you want to sit, you can't go somewhere you want to go because you can't find what you need to have. I mean, there's just so many ways that it cause conflict. But you talked about this resentment that comes after that conflict. And I think that's important to recognize that as a cycle that happens, because it so happens. And I think probably moms are going to be the, the first people to fall into this trap. That may be my bias. Just because I am a mom. And you'd go around picking up after everybody and then you couple that with feeling like, okay, I'm, I, we're disorganized, I'm bearing the brunt of that, and I feel unappreciated. But it does, it breeds this little bit of resentment, like, and then you start using shame based language like you said, why am I the only one? Why can you never. Why do you always. And we start generalizing this from a problem that our family is having with clutter to a character trait that our family is possessing. And that's a, that's a really big difference.

Kathi Lipp: There are so many reasons that our home can breed resentment when we've decided that it's only mom's job to keep everything in order. when there is no sharing of the load, when, you know, mom always has to make a list in order for things to happen. But, well, let's go back to that predictability and some of the language we can use in that is, as a family, we take our dishes to the sink after dinner as a family. we know our roles after dinner, one person wipes down the counters. Another person is, sweeping the floor. Whatever that is, whatever it looks like in your family. Because there are. We want to raise kids who grow into adults who are excellent partners in creating a family and a home that breeds comfort and care and love. And there's a reason why traditions hit so hard for so many of us. You know, it was the predictable thing in our lives. And our kids crave predictability. Even me, who has lived in chaos for so much of her life, I craved that predictability. I just didn't know how to achieve it. And so now, as an adult, I'm figuring all that out, and I'm like, my life could have been so much kinder to me for so many years. And I want my kids. I want the people who come into my house to feel that and know that.

You know, we talk a lot about people who struggle with clutter

Dr. Jessica Peck: You know, we talk a lot about people who struggle with clutter. I think it's. It's. It would be fair to look at the other side of this coin, because there are some people listening. I am not some of those people, but who don't struggle with clutter at all. But that doesn't mean that they don't still struggle, because maybe your house is perfect, but at, what relational expense, you know, that that has to be perfect no matter what. Like, okay, I've organized all of this so nothing can be out of place, and we can't do anything else until this is there. So there's definitely a healthy balance in the middle that we need to have. And all of this is about teaching ourselves, teaching our families, creating family values to live with other people in mind. So not like, okay, well, I've got to keep my stuff, and it's got to be exactly like that. And you can't touch my stuff, because you know that that makes me go crazy. But it also can't be, okay, well, you've got to have the house perfect, because I can't live like that. All of this is really. We're talking about a, biblical value of putting others ahead of ourselves and thinking of our. Of others more highly than ourselves. Right. From Philippians, too.

Kathi Lipp: Yes. You know, if. If I could have a perfect house, I would. I would love that. But, like you said, at what relational cost? Roger grew up in a pretty perfect house. And when we got married, I said, you know, I'm really working on this. This was decades ago. And I'm like, I'm really, really working on this. He goes, I want it to be clean enough to be comfortable, but I also want to, I don't want to feel like I can't be really comfortable in my own home. So, you know, we had discussions about what does that look like, what does it feel like? And he is naturally much more tidy than I am. But he also. So we've, we've come to a happy middle and we both start to feel the angst about when things are cluttered because we know that there's probably something else going on. Maybe we're stressed at work or maybe, you know, there's just something that's not sitting right with us. And so instead of clutter being the cause of everything, look at us as a symptom and say, what do I need to do about this? What do I need to address? It can really help out a lot.

Dr. Jessica Peck: And it's not about rigid rules, about, okay, that we're going to change this and now, you know, we're going to do this. And it's non negotiable. It's about forming values. And that's the third thing that we've come to that families can do. And thinking about expressing care and love for their families is thinking, what can we say together as a family that we value and how will that change how we live? So maybe, maybe you live in a family who really values watching movies together. Maybe you really like to snuggle up on the couch, get under blankets and, you know, watch a movie together. I think, I think that's a great thing to do. So maybe that value means we're going to make sure we know where the remote is and that the blankets are always folded up and that the couch is ready and, you know, where we can get onto it at any time. And then when we get up, we fold up the blankets, we put the remotes where they go, we vacuum up any popcorn that we might have left on the couch. Maybe that's the value that we have. But there's all different kinds of, you know, values that families can have. But what is it that, what is that thing that you do in your home that you want to protect? Maybe it is the dinner table. Table. You know, hey, we value dinner together as a family. So we're going to prioritize keeping the table clean. We value that, that time we have at bedtime, the bedtime routine that we have. So we're going to make sure that that's where we're putting our energy. What other advice do you have for forming values?

Kathi Lipp: Yeah, I think, you know, when we think about clutter, it can sound like drudgery. you know, clearing the clutter, decluttering. Right. But let's, with decluttering, let's also put in some delight. So we are a family that loves to watch movies. And we have, speaking of silver bowls, we have, it's an aluminum bowl, I think, and I think it's from the 70s that Roger, brought into the marriage that he and his dad used to, when he would pop popcorn, he'd put it in the silver bowl. And, it's got some nicks and some dings, but it's so cool looking. And every movie night that comes out, is there a ritual, you know, is there a certain kind of dinner that you make before movie night? You know, is there, do you barbecue some hot dogs? You keep it really simple or, you know, what is it? So putting some delight in there. And so I think that that often helps us to say, oh, and you know, Bill gets the blue blanket and Jenny gets the green blanket. You know, that we know these, these traditions. And maybe when the kid moves out, Jenny gets the, the green blanket to take with her or maybe that blanket is home. So whenever she comes to visit and then when she brings her new husband and their kid, they each get a blanket. You know, there's so many ways to add delight into this. And so if, if the delight is, hey, after dinner we put on, you know, I don't know, the frozen soundtrack. I don't know. Can you tell I'm not up on modern music? yeah, I was thinking James Taylor.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, we were talking about Sonny and Cher earlier, and I got you, babe. And here comes the sun. And yes to, my board operator, Richard. I just put that song back in his head. But when we come back, we're going to talk more about not raising organizers, but raising just considerate humans. Will be right back with Kathi Lipp on the other side of this break.

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You've Already Won by Shane & Shane: You've already won. No matter what comes my way, I will overcome. Don't know what you're doing but I know what you've done and I'm fighting Welcome back friends. That is you've Already Won by Shane and Shane. I love that song. And hey, maybe you are fighting a battle today. Maybe you've got a really big, serious battle going on. If you are, just know that God sees you. God knows he cares and we are praying for you. Maybe you're fighting what feels like a big battle, but maybe seems like a little battle when you talk about it to someone else. Maybe you're talking about battling clutter. I have been battling clutter my whole life. I come from a very cluttery family and I am a clutter queen. I cannot get rid of stuff. I always have projects. It is a battle. And for the last year, we've been having a series called the Declutter Diaries with decluttering expert Kathi Lipp. Now, if you want to find her on, Facebook, you can go. She'll let you in her Facebook group for free. And you spell her name, by the way. K A T, H I and Lipp That's Lipp with two P's. And you can go find the Clutter Free Academy and she'll just tell where you're from. Us, you're friends with me and she'll let you right in there if you're wanting to make a difference in your family. Now, why am I talking about this? Why have I been talking about clutter for a year? I think this is a very uniquely American problem. I think it is a problem that a lot of people have. We know that from research, we know that from personal experience. And clutter is not just about organization. It is not just about having a social media worthy house. We are talking about clutter as really a source of conflict in families. And how do we, take care of clutter in a way that is relational? Because we've been talking about Valentine's Day is coming up. Sharing care for your family. And there's different ways that we've told you that you can do that. Finding one space in your home so that you can declutter intentionally for connecting.

Love shows up in small, boring system, these little steps that we can take

What's one thing that you can do to make tomorrow easier? And what's one place that you can say, hey, as a family, we value keeping this space organized and we're going to commit to that value together. And the truth is, Kathi, as you've shared with us these shared spaces, it's not just a neutral territory. These are spaces where we're having relationships. I think about even you think about in your own home, think about how many times have you sat on the couch and had a really meaningful conversation. How many times have you sat on the end of the bed, had a meaningful conversation? How many times have you sat on a chair or stool in the bathroom while somebody else is getting ready and you have that conversation? These are shared spaces. But the truth is, as you say, love shows up in these small, boring system, these little steps that we can take every day. And I know that has definitely been my journey with you as my coach is learning those lessons along the way. What are these boring, repeatable actions? Because Valentine's Day we're looking right for the, the grand gesture of love. Something that's for social media, but that's not really how love.

Kathi Lipp: Yeah, I love a good grand gesture. Right, me too. but you know what to be able to say. Hey, it seems like you do better when the dishes are done at night. I mean, is there anything, is there any sentence that has ever been sexier in the entire world that makes you feel more loved? And so you know that, that five minutes at night where you just kind of wipe down the calendars, you put a couple of things away and you come down in the morning and you get that good start to the day or one, you know, one repeatable action is Roger learned how, to froth my milk for my coffee, and he brings me coffee each morning. I. That, that is a radical act of love. Now that is love.

Dr. Jessica Peck: That's very romantic.

Kathi Lipp: Yes. And Also, me making dinner for him is very romantic. We all have these things, so these boring, repeatable actions keep us from being in crisis. And one thing I, they prevent arguments. You know, when you know where the keys are hanging there doesn't have to be. Well, who was the last one who. When we just say, we know where the keys are, we know where my bag is, we know where the backpack is. And when there is a calmness there. I, I know you get this, Jessica, because you have teenagers in your home.

Dr. Jessica Peck: I do.

Kathi Lipp: when there is predictability, there is lightness, there is easier laughter. Right?

Dr. Jessica Peck: Yes.

Kathi Lipp: Yeah. And that's what we want. We want the space for the good stuff. because if, if the, if everything's stressful all the time, there's always time to be mad at people. But when you can pull back and you can take that deep breath and you can laugh at yourself and you can laugh at a situation. And by the way, when I. Putting your shoes by the front door, you know, because, hey, you had a rough night. You were upstairs doing homework and I put them by the front door so that you're able to find them in the morning. That's. That's an act of love. When I am taking into consideration, hey, we've got baseball tonight, so we're going to pack up a picnic. And I've thought about it in advance and so you can be at your practice on time. That's an act of love. It's this forward thinking to say, hey, some of that stuff is already taken. Taken care of. And the other things I'm going to need your help on. And that's okay. These are acts of love.

Dr. Jessica Peck: You know, I'm thinking about my coat closet, actually, which again is so funny because you don't think these things are connected to love. But I had a problem with my coat closet, Kathi, for a really long time. Like, don't open it, an avalanche will fall on top of you like pillows. Whatever was in the living room, you know, I just shove in that coat closet. But one of the things that I learned from you is to take decluttering. Not as big giant projects. Not like, okay, I'm going to clean out the coat closet and it's going to be a whole day project that's going to make my family miserable because I'm going to gripe about it, I'm going to feel bad about it. It's just about finding systems that work for me. And I can tell you, for a good almost year now, my coat closet looks amazing. I created A system that works for me. I got rid of the coats that I don't wear. Because, I mean, let's be real. Why do I even need a coat closet? I live in Houston. I don't even need a coat. You know, I mean, come on, let's be real. I've got one for when I travel, but I've got a system that works for me. And now when I open that coat closet, there's puzzles in the top of it. And we can do a puzzle as a family. And I can. They're organized, and I can just pull one out and say, let's do a puzzle. It's those. And I'm thinking of what you're just saying. Instead of scrolling on your phone for an extra five minutes at night, can you get up and just do something for five minutes that's going to create that space that creates connection? And, you know, as I'm thinking about this, Kathi, I know there are people listening, because I am one of those people who just feels overwhelmed, who feels like, yeah, yeah, you know, I've been listening to this series for a year, and, yeah, I don't know if I've really done anything different. I just feel.

Kathi Lipp: Right. Stuck.

Dr. Jessica Peck: I feel. And okay. So much shame involved. Right? Like, okay, my coat clause is still a mess. I don't even want to go on a walk because I can't open the door, get my coat. What do they do?

Kathi Lipp: Right.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Encourage them.

Kathi Lipp: Okay, a couple of different things. One, you were not born knowing how to organize. You know, nobody is born knowing how to do this. This is a learned skill.

Kathi: Shrink the container. If you are overwhelmed, you're trying to do too much

So can you please be gentle with yourself? And can you. Jessica, you reminded us of the most important principle. If you are overwhelmed, you're trying to do too much, you know, shrink the container. So a couple of ways to do this. I'll. I'll tell you how I did this for Roger recently. He's like. He has said for six months, I need to go through my shirts. I need to go through m. My shirts. And I think it just overwhelmed him. And so what I did was I took out probably, I don't know, 15, 16 shirts, and I laid them on the bed, and I said, hey, these are the ones that I, I don't want necessarily remember you wearing very frequently. Are there any of these that you want to keep? And he picked out four. He's like, yeah, I want to keep those. But we were able to get rid of about a dozen shirts. And sometimes, we just need somebody to come alongside us and not that they're making decisions for us, but they're shrinking the container. So like you said, you know, to. Instead of going through the whole coat closet, you. He broke it down and first went through the games and puzzles and said, you know, how many of these am I going to keep? What coats do I actually need in Houston? Okay. What coats do I actually need when I travel? Right.

Dr. Jessica Peck: That's exactly right.

Kathi Lipp: But, you know, the last trip I knew you went on was Florida, so we're not batting a thousand here, Jessica.

Dr. Jessica Peck: I really am not. That is 100 true.

Kathi Lipp: But, you know, hey, everybody needs a coat, and everybody deserves a cute coat. So I. I think you've earned some of those coats.

Dr. Jessica Peck: You've made me feel unashamed.

Kathi Lipp: The container, Right? Shrink the container. Don't do your dresser. Do a drawer. And so just can you. If you have not made any progress and you've been listening for 14 months now, can I just encourage you to shrink your expectations? You're expecting too much of yourself. You probably have some ad in the back of your head that said, clean your room. And, yeah, that's too much for a kid, and you've been shamed by that for a really long time. Let's shrink. Let's shrink the container.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, and that little bit of progress, that is. That is everything. You got to celebrate those little bits of progress.

Jessica: What is something that would make this space kinder to the people who use it?

And you talk about, one question that you had asked was, what is something that would make this space kinder to the people who use it? That is a, really good. Because other. I think, other messages that we give ourselves about clutter are very internally focused. They're all about our own shame, our own frustration, our own, you know, frustration with other people who won't, you know, help us get this system that we have or that kind of thing. But if we really turn our focus to the outside and think, okay, what is going to make this space kinder? Like, is it really kind of for my husband have to, like, step over things in the closet to get to his clothes? You know? No, that's not very kind.

Kathi Lipp: Right.

Dr. Jessica Peck: You know, that's not very right. So how can we flip our thinking in that? Just others serving others rather than shaming ourselves.

Kathi Lipp: So recently, you know, we go and spend a night at my mom's house once a week just to help her with things around there. But that's also our week to go to town. And there are lots of little odds and ends, bobbles that we need to take with us, us. And I was frustrated, when Roger would put something by the front door. And I'm like, but that doesn't look cute. You're killing me. But he didn't. He was trying to be kind to me, saying, we don't want to forget this. And I was like, oh, but it looks so terrible. I just finally found a basket in our house that I put on one of our tables and we just dropped things in there. And so, you know, instead of thinking he's purposely trying to hurt me, but how can I be kind to his system that's trying to get us out the door? So there's a compromise there. I, would like to pretend that we never have to do anything in our house. And it always looks perfect all the time. This is not our reality. This just isn't. And so what's the compromise there? What can we do in order to say what would make this person I love? What would make. What's something that I uniquely can do that would make their lives even 1% better? Is it hanging up those car keys so they're always in the same place? Is it, putting some sticky stuff on the bathroom rug so it's not slippery? You know, what is that 1% thing I can do that I uniquely could do? Because, you know, my kids aren't going to think about non stick on the bottom of a r, but I can, right? And so it's, it's just those little things I'll never forget. One time I was, cleaning our bathroom and I just wiped down. We have an electric toothbrush for Roger and one for me. And I just wiped down the toothbrush because, you know, it gets gunky with the toothpaste and stuff like that. He goes, wow, thank you so much. He goes, I. I look at that every day and I should do something, and I never do. And he says, so I definitely noticed. So thank you for that, Jessica. It literally, I'm not even exaggerating when I say it took me one second. but those things can make a difference whether they notice them or not. Even if they don't notice them, it changes our attitude towards the person. I'm doing this because I love them. Whether they notice or not. I'm doing this because I love them.

Dr. Jessica Peck: That's so true. Just a simple gesture like making the bed. I know. You know, even for my kids, sometimes if they didn't make their bed before, before they came, they had gone for school, just coming home and seeing like that clutter free space that, hey, I went in there and just made your bed for you and just Tidied up a little things. Oh, it can make all the difference in the world. Well, Kathi, if people remember one thing from this conversation about, about looking at clutter through the lens of how can I connect, how can I serve our family, how can we honor our values? What is the one takeaway you want them to have?

Kathi Lipp: Remove the clutter that causes a barrier, not the, you know, if, if the only thing you can do today, if you have 10 minutes, maybe, another day do your makeup drawer that's driving you crazy. But maybe this is the day to organize the shoes by the front door so people can find those lost shoes that they love. Maybe it is, putting a good smelling electric candle in somebody's room that doesn't cause clutter, but just says, hey, I see you, doing something to say I see you and I love you. And I'm removing barriers from things that stress me out sometimes that keep me from connecting with you.

Dr. Jessica Peck: I love that. And you can show love to your family member by using decluttering as an act of love and not as self improvement or, you know, goals that you have, which those things can all be good too. But what if you saw decluttering as an act of love and service to your family? Listen, go over to Kathi's Facebook page. You'll find all kinds of cluttery people over there who are just trying to figure it out together. It's Kathi Lipp's Clutter Free Academy on Facebook. And I pray that the Lord will bless you and keep you, make his face to shine upon you and I'll see you right back here tomorrow.

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Jeff Chamblee: Opinions expressed in this broadcast may not necessarily reflect those of the American Family association or American Family Radio.

Declutter Diaries. Kathi Lipp joins Jessica to talk about shared spaces in our homes. Be sure to join Kathi's free community on Facebook called "Kathi Lipp's Clutter Free Academy"

https://kathilipp.com/