Transcript

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Dr. Jessica Peck: We would like to take a moment to thank our sponsor, PreBorn. When a mother meets her baby on ultrasound and hears their heartbeat, it's a divine connection. And the majority of the time she will choose life. But they can't do it without our help. Preborn needs us, the pro life community, to come alongside them. One ultrasound is just $28. To donate, dial pound 250 and say the keyword BABY or visit preborn.com/AFR hello,

 : and welcome to the Dr. Nurse Mama show, prescribing Hope for Healthy Families here on American Family Radio. Here's your host, professor, pediatric nurse practitioner, and mom of four, Dr. Jessica Peck.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, hey there, friends, and welcome to my favorite time of day, getting to spend time with you prescribing Hope for Healthy Families. Happy Monday, everybody.

About 1 in 5 children are considered to be neurodivergent

We have a really great topic up for you today, something that I'm hearing more and more conversation about. There are people who are working in this space who are really well informed, who are like, on it, who are leading ministry in the space, and there's other people who still have questions, thinking, wait, what's that word again? So I am going to work today. We're going to get all on the same page and talk about the same thing. What is that you're wondering? Well, hang on. I'm about to tell you, because if you are parenting today, if you are grandparenting, if you are in any spaces where there are communal children present and you are talking with other parents, you have likely had a conversation about diagnoses like autism or sensory sensitivities or learning, differences or a word called neurodiversity. Hang in there with me. I'm going to talk about that. Whether it's in your own home, your child's classroom, maybe it's your church, your neighborhood. These conversations have really become a part of everyday family life. And I can see the conversation really changing a lot, even in the, over 30 years years now. I'm a dinosaur in nursing, but I look back to more than 30 years ago when I started in pediatric nursing, and the conversations have really changed a lot. We have a lot more language to describe differences instead of saying, well, yes, she's just a little different. He's just a little different. We have some words Now. Today, approximately 1 in 5 children are considered to be neurodivergent. That includes about 7 million children diagnosed with ADHD and about 1 in 31 children identified with autism Spectrum disorder. Now, I know there is a lot to be said about the specifics of diagnoses and over diagnoses, under diagnoses, all of those things. I acknowledge that that is a conversation on the table, but that is not the conversation that we're having today. We're going to talk about how do we respond to those in our community. Because the truth is these are not rare conditions that you've never heard of. These are part of the landscaping, the landscape of modern parenting and pediatric healthcare. We see these every day. So for me as a pediatric nurse practitioner, one of the most common questions I hear from parents after they have received a diagnosis. They do have language to describe the differences that their kid is experiencing is what is my kid's life going to look like? What is the future going to look like? And how do I help other people understand my child and meet them where they are now? Clinically, we've learned a lot over the past two decades. Especially neurodiversity isn't just a collection of behaviors to eliminate. It is recognizing that God made our brains and they develop differently. And when we look at some of these diagnoses, they each present unique strengths and challenges. Some children may need therapy, some may need accommodations, some may need medical treatment. But every child, no matter any diagnoses or no diagnoses, every child deserves dignity and understanding and the opportunity to flourish with the gifts and the design that God has made them.

Kristie Anyabwile writes a book about neurodiversity

Now let's talk about that word neurodiversity before we dive in because I think it's important for us to all be on the same page. You may have heard this word before, but thought, I'm not really sure exactly what it means. Well, and speaking in very general terms in a faith formed view here, I'm going to tell you that neurodiversity is the idea that God created every brain with unique ways of thinking, learning, processing and interacting with the world. And some, there are some specific diagnoses that can fall within that, but these differences, the key thing is that neurodiversity having differences we see even on autism, autism spectrum disorder, those who are mildly affected, those are profoundly affected. Every child bears the image of God. Every child is fearfully and wonderfully made. And when we recognize and understand neurodiversity, it helps us shift our focus from asking, okay, how do we make this child fit the environment that they're in? To asking, how can we best understand and support and help this child flourish according to the way that God designed them? So it calls parents and teachers and churches and communities to respond with compassion and patience and wisdom, meaning each child where they are while Helping them to grow into who God created them to be. Now, the challenge for families isn't just learning and getting that diagnosis. It's helping children develop an identity that's bigger than their diagnosis. And as Christians, that's where our faith offers really something profoundly hopeful. So before you even receive that diagnosis, your child has received an identity given by their creator. Psalm 139 again reminds us every child is fearfully and wonderfully made. Now, that doesn't erase real struggles, but it anchors every child in the immeasurable and valuable worth of being created in the image of God. And today's guest has written a beautiful children's book that invites both neurodivergent and neurotypical children. Those may be two words that are a little new to you, into a greater understanding and empathy and celebration of the way God unique created this. The book is called Busy Bodies, Busy Brains, Learning to love how God made you. One of the reasons I love this is because children starting from birth all the way through adulthood get messages of, oh, be discontent with the way God made you here. Because, by the way, here's a product that can fix that. Here's something I can market to you that can change that. And we're talking to the author of this book, Kristie Anyabwile She is a Bible teacher with a passion for helping children know and follow Jesus. And after she received an ADHD diagnosis later in adulthood, she began seeing her own story and the experiences of many children through new eyes. And so that journey inspired this new picture book, Busy Bodies, Busy Brains, which invites readers into the world of a neurodivergent child while reminding every child they were intentionally created by God. This book also contains a caregiver connection to help parents continue meaningful conversations about. About gospel themes like identity and belonging and compassion. Kristie Anyabwile welcome to the show. So glad that you're spending time with us today. Thank you so much.

Kristie Anyabwile: No, thank you so much for having me. And thank you for that amazing introduction to our topic today. That's awesome.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, you can tell I have a little passion that runs deep there when I'm. Because I see this every day. This is something that is very familiar to me and it's exciting to me to see ministry spaces, to see even public spaces changing, or instead of parents feeling like a panic, you know, like, oh, gosh, my child is having a meltdown. What are we going to do? There's like a space, there's a place, there's a person who's equipped for that. I think that's beautiful.

Kristie was diagnosed with ADHD at 50

But before we talk about children in the world, I want to talk about the little girl behind this book. And that would be you, Kristie Anyabwile because I know that the most powerful books are born from personal experience, and yours has, because you have been very open and sharing about your own journey. So tell us about that and what you learned about God through that process.

Kristie Anyabwile: Thank you. Yeah, it's really interesting that, I don't know, I kind of had in the back of my mind off and on, that I might want to write a children's book, but I had no idea what that topic would be about until one. I was diagnosed myself with, ADHD. And so I was late diagnosed in my 50s at 50. I think I was 50 when I was first diagnosed. And I think when my doctor first introduced the idea and said, hey, have you ever been tested for this? You know, people are like, oh, yeah, everybody has a little adhd. Or, you know, you kind of people on one hand, they're like, oh, it's all, you know, everybody wants to be diagnosed with something. or you get, you know. Yeah, we all have these moments where we're, you know, too busy or where, we just feel like we can't get started with things and those types of things. For me, it felt very debilitating. I felt very. The only way I could describe it is frozen like a deer in the headlights and trying to figure out why I'm not able to do things that I normally. That I had been doing all my life, like, you know, fold clothes, like, go for a run, like, just basic things in my. In my life. I just felt very stifled and frozen, and I didn't know what to do about it. So I went to my doctor, and she suggested I get, tested. And of course, I was diagnosed. When she introduced the idea, immediately, I was like, oh, well, I can see some things that might, you know, that might fit the category of someone who has adhd. But once I started doing research and recognizing how much of my life I had been masking, unknowingly, figuring out how to. How to work, make my brain work in a neurotypical space, I just started backtracking my life and realizing that, oh, yeah, this is something that's been with me from the time that I was a child. And so it just kind of started me on this journey of figuring out, okay, Lord, if this is how you made me, if this is how the way that my brain was when I was born one, I wanted to understand how come I never knew this before. Why Is it presenting to me now? But more than that, if I had known at the time that ADHD was a part of my life or that I was a child who was neurodivergent, what would I have wanted to know or understand or believe about myself, but more importantly about God? What were the words that I, you know, if I could look, talk to my younger self, and give myself words of life from scripture, from the Lord, what would those words have been? What would I have needed to know? And so that on top of talking to other children who are in that 4, 5, 6, 7 year old range who are just beginning to understand that they are neurodivergent as well, and talking with those children, around that age, they start to notice that they're actually different. Usually around six or seven, I would say they feel themselves to be different from their peers. And so I wrote the book really to speak to myself, but also to encourage children in that space trying to figure out what is this all about and what does it mean? and to give them words of encouragement that would help them learn to embrace the way that God has made them, including their brain. And, to know that that's not a mistake and it's good. And God means to use all the ways that he's created us. He means to use those things for his glory and in ways that serve other people. And so I really wanted this book to have, a God centered perspective, but also an others centered perspective so that they can step back from thinking so much about me and, you know, how this serves me or how does it hurt me and more about how can I use these parts of myself to love and serve others around me.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, Kristie Anyabwile I'm already feeling encouraged listening to your story. I mean, ah, you're asking some really hard questions here. And I will not make it any observations about your maturity or life experience. But since you said you're in your 50s, you were diagnosed when you were 50, you think looking back over that time, I mean, the, the public narrative and the public perception of neurodiversity has changed so much. And when you were growing up, there was just virtually no conversation about that. I know because I was growing up about the same time. And when we look at it, I see it as such a beautiful moment for accepting, the way that God designed us, that any, anything that's different is not something bad that needs to be eliminated, extinguished, that needs to be, you know, disciplined out of you. And when I first started working in pediatrics more than 30 years ago, I would see kids who would have some sort of neurodivergence. They would follow one of two paths. The first path would be, like, shame, quiet. Like, we just don't talk about it. Like, we just keep them at home as much as possible, try to minimize exposure. Like, that's not going to happen. And path number two would be, okay, what do we do? Like, let's be as aggressive as possible with therapy, medication, environmental, whatever it is, to try to make them be as normal as possible and to look at the beautiful ways that God created kids. I think about especially kids with autism spectrum disorder, how they just see the world in a different way. And I talked to so many parents who have kids like that, and they think, I stop and I smell the flowers, or I listen to music in a way that I wouldn't listen to. There's so many beautiful things about that. And we are arriving at our first break, Kristie  but we're just getting started into this really deep, rich conversation. And as you were talking about kids noticing they're different, about five, six, seven. I remember talking to a mom with a kid about that age, a son who was getting in trouble at school, and he was at his desk, you know, crashing two cars together, and the teacher took away the cars, and so he crashed two pencils together, and the teacher took away the pencils, and he crushed his fingers together and said, and you can't take away my fingers. And he was right. But he saw the world in a different way. You do, too, and you will give us some more insight on that. And we do see adults receiving diagnoses later than later in life. So after the break, we'll talk about what parents and teachers and siblings and friends should understand about neurodiversity and how compassion can change everything. We'll be right back with Kristie Anyabwile

Everyday Preborn Network Clinics helps mothers discover hope through free ultrasounds

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Because He Lives (Amen) by Matt Maher: I believe in the Son I believe in the risen one. I believe I overcome by the power of his blood. Amen. Amen. I'm alive. I'm alive because he lives. Amen. Amen. Let my song join the One that never ends because he lives.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Welcome back friends. That is because he lives. Amen by Matt Maher. And we are here talking to Kristie Anyabwile She's author of a children's book, her first children's book that releases tomorrow, which is a pretty big deal from B H Publishing. And that is super exciting. It's called Busy bodies, Busy Brains, Learning to love how God made you. And as I've been saying, if you've followed along from the beginning, I'm encouraged by this as a pediatric nurse practitioner to see increasing appreciation for the differences with the way that God has made us. And God did not make every child's brain to work the same. If he made. If everybody was the same and nobody was neurodivergent, I'm telling you, we would probably live in a pretty boring world. We might have order, but we wouldn't have a lot of fun in a lot of cases. That's just my personal observation. And Kristie's been telling her story about a diagnosis in her 50s of, attention deficit disorder. Attention deficit hyperactivity disorder. And Kristie  we've been talking about how much times have changed and how the narrative has really changed around recognizing that some children's brains just work differently. When you look back at your own, recognizing that, what did you see looking back at your past? Like, what do you think could have been different from the, adults around you to really accept and appreciate what we're seeing more now that children are not mistakes m to be fixed, they are people intentionally created in the image of God.

Kristie Anyabwile: Yeah, no, that's a good question. For me, it wasn't even so much what I was hearing out there, but it was also my lived experience. I felt myself to be different in ways and again, I unknowingly tried to, like, mask or cover up or hide or, not make it noticeable. Certain things that I struggled with. Simple one. my mom used to tell me all the time, you know, this was when I actually, this was when I was in college. I would, come home to visit, and when I would go back to campus, she would say, okay, make sure you haven't left anything, because, you know, you always forget something. And I was like, I don't always forget. I don't always forget stuff. And she's like, yes, you do. You always forget things. And I would get mad at her, and I'm like, why did she say always forget things? I don't always forget. And then, sure enough, I'm knocking on the door again, or I'm opening the door again, oh, yeah, I forgot this. Oh, yeah, I forgot that. or so that. Or, Another one was procrastination. Just being late for everything and just rushing at the last minute to finish projects for school, to start projects for school, those kinds of things. And I would tell myself, yeah, I just work better under pressure, which I do. But there's a reason behind that, working better under pressure. It's a thing called hyper focus, you know, or, hyper fixation. And so, I felt within myself that certain things. I don't know why I'm like this. And I would just try to fix it instead of embracing it and saying, if I think. If I had known that I was a person with, And I'm glad you spelled it out, Attention deficit hyperactivity disorder. For me, that's an umbrella term. Let me just back up for a second. It's an umbrella term, and it includes people who are physically busier. Hyper, in ways. It also includes people who's. Maybe not physically hyper, but their brains are going all the time, and they are, inattentive is what it's called. it doesn't mean that they can't focus on things. It means that they focus on the wrong thing. Most of my attention gets diverted very quickly, and, I can give a lot of attention to things that are not the priority. Then there's kind of combined type adhd. So there's people who are more hyperactive, people who are more inattentive, and then people who kind of have a combined type. I'm more inattentive, and so it means I can again be very procrastinate, wait until the last minute. Or I can be kind of spacey, just like in my own little world, you know, just in the clouds. They would, you know, people would call it things like that. And I would. I remember times in school where I would just pretend, like, oh, it wasn't that I wasn't paying attention. I would just say, oh, can you repeat that? And as it. So it was just kind of things that I would do to cover up the fact that I wasn't paying attention or that I was in the clouds for the moment, or that my attention got diverted to something else. And so, again, I would try to cover those things up. But had I known that there was a reason behind it, I think I would have been able to advocate for myself a little bit better. And so some of the things that I've learned as an adult is to say, sometimes I'll say outright, oh, you know, I have adhd and I kind of zoned out for a second. Could you repeat that? Or I would say, oh, I have, you know, I'm having a hard day, with task initiation, and I'll ask a friend. I need, a body double. I need a person to co work with me so that I can stay focused and stay motivated to do the things that I need to do. so I think for me, I hope I would have been able to advocate for myself a little bit better, and I would have been able to give a name to why things were different for me. I'm super busy right now. You know, maybe a child whose hyperactivity would say, I feel super, you know, hyperactive right now, or, I can't sit still right now. I need a fidget. Can I get, you know, a fidget cube? Or can I get a band under my chair so that I can kick my leg on the band under my chair and not be disruptive or, you know, can I have some other accommodation that they might have in their school, that might be able to help them. So for me, I think had I known, I hope it would have given me words so that I could advocate for myself better and, ask my teacher or other people who were caring for me what I needed in those moments.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Kristie one of the things I love about just sitting here listening to you talk and tell your story for the first time is that it's so natural and it sounds so healthy when you're just saying, okay, I have attention deficit hyperactivity disorder. I am inattentive, which means that my. I mean, you just explained it so well. And so this is how I accommodate. I have this self awareness. I know this about myself, and this is what I need to set myself up for success. I think any child, any situation, whether it's neurodivergence or whether it's trauma or abuse or whatever they have experienced or just their God given personality quirks, to be able to talk about it so naturally and so like, there's no shame, there's no apology, there's no, I hate this. You know, it was just very like, hey, this is what it is and this is how I need help. That's how I want to see kids being able to talk about what, what, how they're made and what they need. I think that's beautiful.

Do you look at Psalm 139 differently now with ADHD than before?

And you, you wrote that, you know, Psalm 139, of course, any, any believer who, who loves and values and cherishes the gift of life that God's given us, we know this ph. Time and probably many parents use it. We're fearfully and wonderfully made. How has that changed, given that description that you just gave of yourself, what you have learned in your life journey? Do you look at that verse differently now than you did before?

Kristie Anyabwile: Thank you. That's such a good question. Yeah, I do. I think part of the, you know, as I was thinking about my own diagnosis and I was thinking about this book and I was thinking about the children in my life that I wanted to see, just immediately occur, you know, in my life that I wanted to see, encouraged by this book, that verse has just stuck with me because I think the reality of anybody with adhd, is that we don't always feel that way. It's a truth that we know, but we don't necessarily always feel that way. And so for me, it's a, verse that I've had to repeat to myself to remind myself that I am fearfully and wonderfully made. God made me, you know, he made me this way because he wanted to use my particular brain and the way that it works. I think one of the beautiful things about, having ADHD is I just say I'm an idea generator. Like, I have ideas all day long. I, they're great ideas, by the way.

Dr. Jessica Peck: I love it.

Kristie Anyabwile: I have no capacity to carry them out. But if you need an idea, I'm your girl. I can, I can ideate with you all day. And it's funny because, a couple of jobs that I've gotten in the past, the way that I got those jobs is because the interviewer or my boss would say, you have such wonderful ideas. We just love that you think out of the box box. You know, I would hear things like that. And I'm like, oh, okay. I'm kind of, I think out of the box. But now, again, have I, I think, having this awareness, I'm like, yes, Lord, yes, there are ways in which I feel ADHD as a, as a deficiency in myself. But I know that you mean to use it for good, for your glory, and for the good of others. And so it has meant something, meant a lot to me to rehearse this verse and to recognize in moments of weakness that, yes, I feel a weakness in this moment, but it doesn't mean that I'm deficient or that God has made me. You know, there's something wrong with the way that God has made me. It means that, yes, there are ways that I need, to accommodate for it, but there are also ways that it can be a blessing to me and it can be a blessing to the people around me. So, Lord, because you have made me fearfully and wonderfully, how can I use this gift, this gift of this brain that you've given me so uniquely? How can I use it to serve you? How can I use it to serve others? and so, yeah, along with that, I think kind of a sideline verse or parallel verse that, has meant a lot to me in writing. This book is from Isaiah 64. Eight, another one that's pretty familiar. And it says, yet, Lord, you are our Father, we are the clay, and you are our, potter, we all are the work of your hands. And that verse again is so beautiful because it means that not only did God just make me this way, he intentionally fashioned me in this particular way to beautify himself through all of who he's made me to be. And so together, I think those verses just give me a different perspective of how I think about adhd, particularly in moments of weakness. and to just remind me that, there are ways that I can feel my deficiency, but there are also ways that I can use this part of myself, to bring glory to God and to serve other people. And, and that's what I try to do. And I think for children it's a beautiful message as well, because I think again, in the age where they notice themselves to be different and being different, and to be accepted by their peers, their classmates, to, not be a burden to their teachers or caregivers and people around them. I think that, if you do affirmations or anything like that, this would be a wonderful verse to use on a day to day basis as an affirmation or just as a memory verse with a child to remind them, when you go to school today, remember that you are fearfully and wonderfully made by God. God entrusted your brain to you so that you could use it to honor him and to serve people. So look for ways to do that today, you know, especially when you feel super busy, look for ways that you can use that part of yourself, to serve. Maybe you can clean the desk for a teacher. Maybe you can. Maybe you can push, a wheelchair of a student who is wheelchair bound. Maybe you can stay late after school and, help a friend or a classmate. So I think as a parent, we can be creative in helping our children, to reorient how they think about themselves and how they can use their brains to honor God and to serve people.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Kristie my face hurts from smiling so big because I just love the way that you're talking. And I'm imagining if parents would take a little bit of what you just said and take that home with them. Because so often I see parents who get a diagnosis, whether that is neurodivergence or, you know, you talked about even bodies being made differently. Kids with a physical disability or a chronic illness or whatever it is. But the reframe that you just gave is so empowering. Rather than saying, okay, here's the, life limiting diagnosis that you have. Here's the disability that you have, here's what you can't do, here's what you do badly. That is a burden to your teachers. That's a burden at home. And you know, Kristie Anyabwile this is, this is going to step on some toes, but I'll say it anyway, because what I see a lot is a lot of negative speak about that. Like, if I'm the camp nurse, the counselors are going to be like, please give them their ADHD medication. You know, they'll. They'll bring the kids and point out those behaviors that they think, okay, these are not in line with what it is. But the way that you just reframed that to be made beautifully in the image of God and to be able to bring different gifts to the table, different perspectives. You are just describing so beautifully an example of being in the body of Christ. And I think of how many meetings I've sat in, in boardrooms or executive level meetings, and no one will throw out an idea. Like, they're all like, oh, no, I don't want to say anything because, you know, what if you don't like my idea? And also, I'm really bad at that. Can you just please give me the plan and tell me what to do and what to execute? Give me the Gantt chart. We need all of those kinds of. And, oh, my goodness, I have so many more questions. We're coming up on our second break here. But listen, this book releases tomorrow. I would encourage you to check it out if you know a family who would be encouraged by this. It's called Busy Bodies, Busy Brains. Learning to love how God made you. Every kid, every adult, frankly, needs that lesson to learn to love how God made you.

Dr. Jessica Peck: You.

Dr. Jessica Peck: It's by Kristie Anyabwile and it is releasing tomorrow. Every child is wanting to know from the adults around them, do you see me? Do you understand me? And sometimes the greatest act of love that we can have is just slowing down enough to take a minute and see the world through the eyes of someone who doesn't see the world like we do. When we come back, we're gonna continue talking about some practical encouragement for parents and churches and caregivers who are walking this journey every day. So much more with Kristi Anyabwile when we come back. I'll, see you after this break.

American Family Association is fighting to restore biblical family values in America

Buddy Smith Jeff Chamblee: We live in a day when America's families are under attack like never before. Buddy Smith, senior vice president of the American Family Association. The war, war against biblical principles rages on numerous fronts. The Internet, Hollywood, Washington, D.C. america's corporate boardrooms, and the list goes on. At American Family association, we're committed to standing against the enemies of God, the enemies of your family. And we recognize it's an impossible task without God's favor and your partnership. Thank you for being faithful to pray for this ministry, to give financially and to respond to our calls for activism. What you do on the home front is crucial to what we do on the battlefront. We praise God for your faithfulness, and may he give us many victories in the battles ahead as we work together to restore our nation's biblical foundations.

Jesus, Son of God by Brandon Heath: You came down from heaven's throne this earth you formed was not your home. A love like this the world had never known. The crown of thorns to my your name Forgiveness fell upon your face. A love like this the world had never known m. On the altar of our praise let there be no high and low name Jesus, son of God, you lay down your perfect life. You are the sacrifice. Jesus, son of God. You are Jesus, son of God.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Welcome back, friends. That is Jesus, son of God, by Brandon Heath. And I am so grateful, grateful, grateful every day for the love of Jesus. And I'm grateful for the way that God has made children fearfully and wonderfully. And I'm really, honestly very optimistic in the ways that I've seen pediatric Practice change in some ways over the last 30 years to really recognize that children are not mistakes to be fixed, but they are made beautifully, individually in the image of God. And some children may have limitations in some ways, but that can give them a lot of possibilities and other ways and help us to look at the world in a different way and to function as the body of Christ.

Kristie Anyabwile's first children's book focuses on neurodivergence

I'm talking today to children's author Kristie Anyabwile Anyabule. Her first children's book comes out tomorrow. It is called Busy Bodies, Busy Brains. It really talks about neurodivergent children, although I think any children who feel like they are different for whatever reason, if it's a physical disability they have or a chronic illness, I feel like they would be encouraged by this. And there are lots of things I love about this book that the illustrations are so charming. But you dedicate this at the beginning. Kristie Anyabwile for Zoe, Alvin, Maven, and Gloria, you are fearfully and wonderfully made. You start with scripture. I'm going to go back to that in just a second. You start with Scripture, Isaiah 64. Eight, the verse you shared with us already. Yet, Lord, you are our Father, we are the clay, and you are our potter. We are all the work of your hands that starts the book. And then you go through a typical day. Like, you talk about how it feels to be inside the busy body or busy brain of a child who is neurodivergent. And then there's this. This page here that comes up that's so beautiful. If you can't see it, it is a hand that's reaching out with the scripture. I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made, and it's written on the palm of a child. The Bible says, I praise you because I'm fearfully and wonder. Beautifully made. God didn't make a mistake when he made me. He loves all of me, my busy body and my busy brain. I'm telling you, Kristie Anyabwile I know I'm a pediatric nurse and I'm a mom, but I could just cry. Do you want to say anything about Zoe, Alvin, Maven, and Gloria?

Kristie Anyabwile: Yes, I do. I do. So, Zoe, Alvin and Maven are siblings. And when I started working through this book, I asked their mom if they could be kind of my sounding board and if I could, you know, read the story to them. If I could get their input, I would ask them, does this res their, Oh, what are their ages? I think at the time they were like, ah, three, eight and ten or something like that. So, I would just get their input and ask them, does this resonate with you? Does this, you know, in how you experience the world sometimes? is this a scenario that seems familiar to you at school with yourself or with your classmates? and even with the illustrations, there are, pictures of children holding different types of fidget or sensory tools. And so we talked about if a child is holding a fidget spinner, for example, is this a face that they would normally have? Or if their classmates responded to them in this way, you know, what would. What would they look like? And so we kind of use those conversations to shape the illustrations in the book to make them as realistic as possible. Even though they're obviously, you know, they're obviously illustrations. But, But yeah. So Zoe, Alvin and Maven were my number one sounding board. They were amazing. And then Gloria is my goddaughter. And, we also share neurodivergence. And so she was just kind of in the back of my mind as one of the children that I really wanted to be encouraged by this book. Book. And, for her to know that as she grows and finds herself to be different in whatever ways, she notices that, this is a message that would encourage her as well, that she's fearfully, wonderfully made, that God has purposely shaped her in the way that he has, so that he can use her to glorify Him. And he does that. so those are the kids in the book, but. But also Zoe, Alva, Maven and Gloria are representative of many children that I get to spend time with as a Sunday school teacher volunteer. I see representative children, throughout this book, that I hope they can really relate to it. and so being a Sunday school teacher, oftentimes I see children who. I mean, I don't know their backgrounds, but I see children who have traits that are characteristic of kids who are neurodivergent. And so I think these tools can be used for any child, whether or not, you know, if they have a diagnosis or not. this message and this encouragement can be helpful to them. And some of the tools that we use in Sunday school to redirect them, or just to make sure that they're included in the lesson. again, it can be used for any child who in a moment, might need some redirection or might need some help or might need some encouragement to be included in what we're trying to teach them and to make the gospel accessible to them at all times. And, so, yeah, we can talk about some of those things. That we have tried or some of the things that I've tried that seem to work, work, in children's ministry. And again, we're learning, we're not definitely by far. It's, a new territory for our church as well as I'm sure it is for a lot of churches. And so we're learning along the way. And, I think a book like this could be one of those tools that we use to encourage our children.

Dr. Jessica Peck: It definitely is a challenge.

 How do we equip our volunteers for children's ministry?

Kristie Anyabwile I've been asked more and more. Like over the last year I have gotten, gotten multiple, multiple requests to come and speak at different churches to provide training, to talk about some of the practical, like how do we equip our volunteers? Because everybody knows it's hard enough to get people to volunteer for children's ministry. You know, that's usually going to be something the pastor is going to have to make multiple calls about. And when you go in and you're thinking, okay, I just want to do the Bible story, and then, you know, you got a kiddo who's just like flipping all over their chair and everything, you think that can be really frustrating because you're thinking, okay, what about the other kids? And I don't really feel equipped to respond to this and why can't they just behave? And these are all natural human thoughts. But as we see ministry environments start to get a little more, a little more with it. You know, we do see some emergence of sensory tools or rooms that are, you know, there for a calm down room or calm down corner, whatever those tools are. Let's just give a few little pearls and takeaways. Kristie Anyabwile you said you have a story you can share about this and so some practical help.

Kristie Anyabwile: Yeah. so there's a little girl who comes to our children's, ministry and she, I just love her. We kind of develop this, little friendship. And she can be really busy sometimes and, and not quite focused on the lesson. One thing that has really helped this particular child. And again, again, these are tools that you. Sometimes it's trial and error. You don't know what's going to work with every child. But in this child's case, her mom actually told me, she said, you know, this is my child. She can be really busy sometimes, but if you give her a job, she's usually really helpful. And so that's what I did. I came in and I gave her the job to be kind of like big sister to one of the younger kids in our class. And she just Took that little girl under her wings. She made sure that, you know, she sat in the appropriate place on the mat when it was story time. She made sure that she was in line for any games that we were playing. She sat with her during coloring and activity time. And she just became actually a really good, a really helpful, a really helpful person in class. And so, so each week when she's there, I try to give her a job, make her responsible for something, and that really helps her. She can be busy, but it's busy in a very focused, intentional way of caring for someone else. I have another little boy who, sometimes he just, you know, he's really busy on the floor. He'll roll around, you know, those kinds of things. And one day I just said, you know, would you like to. To go, you know what? Would you like for me to put a mat over in the corner so you can have some time to yourself? He said, yes. He went over in the corner. He rolled around for about 10 minutes. And then after that he regulated himself and he came back and re engaged with the lesson without me having to say another word. So we don't have a big church. We don't have a sensory room. We don't have, you know, all of these big resources. We just try to use little tools as we can. We do have. Have a fidget tool box. I think another thing, if you're in children's ministry and you have something fidget tools or some sort of sensory gadgets, I would shy away from calling them toys. They are not toys to play with. They are tools that we use to regulate ourselves so that we can come back and re. Engage with the lesson. And so, the way that we present it to the children in children's ministry is we tell them that sometimes, their classmates may need a tool to help them so that they can focus on the lesson for the day. Sometimes when two or three children are just super busy, we make it busy time. And I've had the kids do planks, See who can hold the plank for the longest. we've done jumping jacks. We do big body movements and just get those wiggles out. And if it's something that feels like a distraction, make it a distraction for everybody, make it a part of the lesson, and fold it into what you're doing. And then you'll find that the class as a whole will settle a lot better, afterwards. And, so there. Those are some things that we've done. And then most recently, again, as a staff As a unit, we've done some. We've hired people to come in and train us, in regards to, neurodivergence children with special needs in other areas. And so we have gotten some professional training and gone to conferences. Most recently, there's a wonderful conference, called, Disability and the Church through Key Ministry. And it's an amazing conference that offers tons of resources that churches can use to better equip themselves to serve families, who have, children that have special needs. And so those are some of the things that we've done most recently, in our church to help us better direct. Our goal is to make the gospel accessible and, have a space where children can clearly hear the gospel message. And so there are all kinds of tools that we try to incorporate in that, and those are just a few of them. Them.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, Kristie Anyabwile and I think another, too, is just.

Kristie Anyabwile: Sorry, before we get, I think what we've learned or seen in our staff is that people feel much better equipped to care for children in our children's ministry when we have invested in them in small ways through training, through tools that we have in the classroom, or even training on ways to redirect or. Or to include children who may, feel like they're on the outside. We have a buddy for a couple of children who, are on the autism spectrum and have seen wonderful results with that. And, I think this coming fall will probably incorporate buddy bags, where our volunteers will have ready resources for children who might need. Maybe they might need a head. Headphone for, you know, for sound. Or maybe they would need, I don't know, a fidget cube. Or maybe they would need a band around their chair, to, you know, so that they can be moving but in a way that's not disruptive to the class. So we're thinking about things like that as well. What can we include in these buddy bags that would make it easy to hand off to children or to help them to stay engaged with the lesson?

Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, Kristie  that was a beautiful burst of ideation, and far be it from me to interrupt that. It's true. But you just demonstrated. It was so great. You just had so many great ideas. But I think even more than that, what you have brought to us is a really thoughtful perspective shift, even in just the language that you're using, saying they're really busy. That is much different than saying they're really bad. They're really misbehaved. M. They're really disrespectful. They're really disruptive. And you think about those words that we use that, may be technically true in describing their behavior. But I think what we forget as adults is often kids take those character attributes on. They take those behaviors as character attributes. And so even just saying, you're really busy and it's not busy time, those little shifts are going to make a really big difference. So, Kristie  thank you so much for helping us today really work to replace place some misunderstanding with dignity and with joy. And one of the greatest lessons from today's conversation for me is that children don't need to earn their worth by fitting into someone else's definition of normal. Their value was established long before anyone noticed their difference. They're fearfully and wonderfully made. His God's works are wonderful. We know them full well. And I pray wherever you are, whatever you are doing, as I always do, that the Lord will bless you and keep you and make his face to shine upon you. I'll see you tomorrow. We'd like to thank our sponsors, including PreBorn. PreBorn has rescued over 400,000 babies from abortion. And every day their network clinics rescue 200 babies lives. Will you join PreBorn in loving and supporting young moms in crisis? Save a life today. Go to preborn.com/AFR the views and

Jeff Chamblee: opinions expressed in this broadcast may not necessarily reflect those of the American Family association or American Family Radio.