Dr. Jessica Peck: We would like to take a moment to thank our sponsor, preborn. When a mother meets her baby on ultrasound and hears their heartbeat, it's a divine connection. And the majority of the time she will choose life. But they can't do it without our help. Preborn needs us, the pro life community, to come alongside them. One ultrasound is just $28. To donate, dial pound 250 and say the keyword BABY or visit preborn.com/AFR hello and welcome to the Dr. Nurse Mama show, prescribing Hope for healthy families here on American Family Radio. Here's your host, professor, pediatric nurse practitioner, and mom of four, Dr. Jessica Peck.

September is National Cancer Awareness Month, and September focuses on childhood cancer

Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, hey there friends, and welcome to my favorite part of the afternoon, getting to spend time with you prescribing Hope for healthy Families. And today we are talking about finding hope in a situation that seems very hopeless. Now, for me as a mom, as a pediatric nurse practitioner especially, I have a special place for kids who experience suffering in this world, for kids who experience things that we don't want them as adults to go through, that they experience in a broken world. Many of you may be aware, but September is National Cancer Awareness Month, and this is a time to, to shine a light on the reality. We're talking specifically about childhood cancer that touches nearly every family in some way. According to St. Jude's they say that on average, more than 290 children and adolescents in the United States are diagnosed with cancer every week. That's 290 every week. And when a child is diagnosed with cancer, and it's not just that child who has a journey because they need their entire family, this impacts their entire family. It impacts their community. It is a life now that's filled with hospital visits and emotional strain and fear and financial challenges and a, need for support from support systems. And I know many of you out there listening may have not had been, directly involved and, and your child having cancer, but I know many of you support families who are walking this journey. And every family deserves to know that they are not walking this road alone. And I couldn't let September end without really shining a light on these families, what they're going through and how we can help them. Because this month and every month, we're called not only to raise awareness, but I want you to take action. And that might mean offering a meal to a family who's spending days at the hospital. It might be donating to an organization, organization that's funding life saving research. It might be showing up with words of encouragement. It might be volunteering at an event that an organization is having those small acts of kindness become lifelines of hope. And today we have a very special story to share with you.

Billy Gazzaway's son Kadin was diagnosed with leukemia as an infant

I am very, very honored to be, to be joined by Billy Gazzaway and his wife Emily. Technical Sergeant Billy Gazzaway. They are both retired from the Air Force, and we are going to hear about their journey in facing the unthinkable. And that journey began for them when their precious little boy, Kadin, was diagnosed with leukemia as an infant. And Kadin endured years of treatment beyond his, far beyond his years that he showed courage in that, never complained, even when his tiny little body was pushed to the limit. But just before his fifth birthday, after a relapse in a difficult fight, Kadin did pass away. He went home to be with Jesus. And his dad was overseas on assignment when that relapse came. And by the time he made it home, his son was already deep into treatment. And it was a heartbreaking chapter that left a young family reeling like cancer always does. And it's a story that I know will resonate with parents who are listening today, who are walking through that chapter, who are walking through with a family who is walking through that chapter. And I think the question on all of our hearts is how does a family carry on after such devastating loss? And where can hope be found in the most hopeless and the darkest of valleys? And so I'm so grateful, Billy and Emily, for you joining us today. And I shared with you it is my sincere prayer that we would honor Kaden and his life and his legacy. Thank you so much for joining us.

Billy Gazzaway: Oh, yeah. It's an honor to be here. Thank you so much.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, I want to start by just talking about Kadin and what you want us to know about what a remarkable little boy that he was. How would you like to share his memory with us?

Emily Gazzaway: So it's been. It's been a long time, since someone has asked us about Kadin and the. Probably the reason for that there. Everybody around us knows about Kadin, but the farther that we get away from, you know, his diagnosis and treatment and then his passing away as a military family moving every two or three years, you kind of have to start over and people don't know you, and then you're. You're kind of left on your own, and you don't want to be, you know, you don't want to be the Debbie Downer, right? You don't want to constantly be, you know, bringing up the fact that you have a child that has passed away. So so, it's easier 100% to make sure that the people that are around you, are aware that you have a. Ah, you know, people ask you, how many kids do you have? We kind of learned how to say, we have one that lives at home. So then if they ask more questions, then that opens the door for, oh, well, who is. Tell me about who lives at home and who's not home. Those kinds of questions. We are. We do as much as we can to make sure that the people that we invite into our lives and into our circle, are aware that we have a little one that has passed away. Everybody is always so supportive and understanding and caring and so much grace is given. A lot of times they don't understand how we could make it through something like that, how we survived, how our marriage survived. It wasn't easy. I don't want to, you know, paint a rosy picture. It wasn't always easy. There were times when we almost didn't survive. I think leaning on the people around us that know us best and leaning on each other and leaning on the Lord ultimately is what saved us and saved our family.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Yeah, go ahead, Billy, Go ahead.

Billy Gazzaway: No, just, is honoring him. And, I guess it would be just. Just being able to talk about him. I mean, because the first couple years, there was no way I could even talk about him. I think it lasted almost three to four years before I was even able to say anything about him. And then once we started going back to church, pastors, lead pastors, like, hey, tell us your story. What's going on? you seem different. Or why are you always celebrating childhood cancer awareness? We saw this on Facebook, and just being able to articulate, ah, who he was and. And what he meant our family and. And what he still, like you said, his legacy still goes on. We still honor him. Not just in September, but anytime someone has a question and wants to bring it up, we're more than happy to talk to him about it now. But wasn't the case a few years ago?

Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, you know, it's such a beautiful affirmation of life. This is one of the things that I really appreciate. I've worked a lot in, in childhood cancer hospitals, and seeing the families who. Who go through this is something else. But I will tell you, there's something so inspiring about seeing the children who face this because they face it much differently than adults do. There is a tenderness in their spirit. There is an honesty that just can't be hidden. There is an innocence there that is Just so incredibly beautiful. And it's such an affirmation of life because he wasn't on this earth for very long, but yet even now, his legacy lives on. And his story of hope, his story, story of faith, and. And the way that he. His journey impacted yours is absolutely beautiful. And the. The only reason I think that you can find hope is just to know that one day you will see him again, you will be reunited with him, and he will lead you to Jesus. I mean, that. That is. That is where the hope is. And Emily, you're so right in the way that it impacts everything. I mean, even now, just every little facet of your life that you're talking about. There's. There's no running from this. There's no escaping this. Let. Let's go back to the beginning and talk about that diagnosis in those early days and give some encouragement for families who are walking through that part of the journey.

Billy Gazzaway: Well, for us, we were stationed at Tindall Air Force Base in Florida, Panama City, Florida. And it was during Thanksgiving. I think it was the Monday after Thanksgiving. we took him to school, to this child development center. And one of the teachers had called us and like, hey, we're noticing bruises on him. You know, they were obviously concerned that there might be something going on at home. But then he had a fever. And then she had been aware of thrush, and she had looked in his mouth and saw that, and then there was fever. She's like, something's not right. So we took him to the. On base, to the clinic there. And when they did a blood count, we knew something was. Or that, Dr. Knew something was different. And then they took us downtown and to a different hospital. And then, luckily, being in the Air Force, it was. I won't say it was a blank check, but it was anywhere we wanted to go. Once we. The Doctors were like, 95% sure there's something going on here, and we needed to get them to a pediatric, oncologist. We went. We chose uab, in Birmingham, Alabama, the children's hospital up there. And it was just a. I don't know, like you said, how they. Children go through this different than we do. And we were panicking. I mean, obviously, worst case scenario hit us immediately. And. And he never, ever, ever. I mean, he couldn't talk at the time, but it was no crying. There was no nothing like that. It was just, hey, I'm here. When it's like, he knew if that makes sense.

Emily Gazzaway: And it does.

Billy Gazzaway: And we were we were the ones crying and panicking and. And feeling all the pain that. I don't. I don't. I don't know how to describe it. The way you said it was way better than I can do it. It was just. It was chaos to me. And not knowing what the next day or the next second brings was, It was pretty overwhelming and unbearable at times. So that. That was my perspective. And Emily, she was like a nurse, like a. Wrote down everything. If there was 1cc off of the medicine he was supposed to get, it was written down on our driver. Yeah. And we weren't having that, so. Yeah, that's what it was for me. Just not being able to help your child when you can tell they. They are. When you know they need help. And that was in putting all your trust in. In strangers and. And. And God. and at that time, we were praying. and we'll talk about this more later, I'm sure, but what happened after he passed away? But, I mean, just prayer after prayer after prayer, and. And.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Yeah, absolutely. Go ahead. Go ahead, Billy.

Billy Gazzaway: That's all.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Oh, well, as a dad, and I'm sure, as I'm going to presume to say as someone in the military, you know, you're a man of action, I'm guessing, and you want to fix this, and the fact that you are just all of a sudden so powerless, it's something that you can't fix. I'm sure that's really hard. And I see a lot of dads in particular really struggle with that, although moms struggle, too. So, Emily, what was your perspective like? You know, you were that mama bear, which is the best thing that a baby can have. But how was your experience different or the same from what Billy's describing?

Emily Gazzaway: So it was. My experience was very similar through his initial diagnosis, and then three years later with his relapse. Very similar, but also very different. I had a tendency to write everything down. I asked questions. Billy would also have questions, but they would be different questions. I. Even to this day, you know, if you asked me what I had for lunch last week, I couldn't tell you, but I could recall almost verbatim, what cadence, you know, medicine regimen was from, you know, 20 years ago. So all of that stuff kind of gets ingrained when through with his initial diagnosis. As a mom, you know, something is wrong with your kiddo. But as a new mom, everything that you read and everything that you talk yourself down from, like, am I being paranoid? Am I being overprotective? Am I. Is it because I don't know what I'm doing? Both of us were new parents. Kadin was our first. And so when we started to notice behavioral changes and we started to notice that he was a little inconsolable, which was so much not like him. at six months old, he was 180 degrees difference, as a baby than he was 30 days prior. And so advocating for him and also kind of talking yourself off, off the ledge that you know something is wrong with your kiddo and trying to make doctors believe you're not just a crazy new mom, that was, that was a little hard. but other than that, once we figured out that something indeed was really wrong, everybody immediately went into action to do what they could to get him into a hospital and into a treatment protocol. UAB Children's is part of the Children's Oncology group. And so all of Kadin's treatment protocol came from Children's Hospital in Cincinnati. So, Emily, high risk.

Dr. Jessica Peck: I'm going to hold you right there because we have so much more, more to talk about. I want to thank you both for being willing to share Kadin's story. It is so tender. I know it's sacred ground for sure, but I know for those who are listening and maybe walking through this with their own child or someone they love, we are going to talk more about this journey. How do you find hope and utter hopelessness? We'll be right back with the Gazzaways Don't go away.

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Chain Breaker by Zach Williams: been walking the same old road for miles and miles if you've been hearing the same old voice of the same old lies if you're trying to fill the same old holes inside There's a better life, there's a better life if you got pain, he's a pain taker if you feel lost, he's a way maker if you need freedom, or saving He's a prison- shaking savior if you got chains, he's a chain breaker welcome back, friends. That is Chain Breaker by Zach Williams.

Emily and Billy Gazzaway lost their son Kadin to leukemia

And today we are talking about a really tough topic, but one that is all too real for too many families around the world. We are talking about National Childhood Cancer Awareness Month, and I'm speaking with Emily and Billy Gazzaway, and they're sharing the story of losing their son Kadin in a very courageous battle with leukemia when he was very little. He was diagnosed as an infant and passed away as a toddler. And they're talking about their journey and that, And before the break, Emily, you were right in the middle of sharing a little bit about those early days and just the catastrophic life change that happens. You know, just everything as you knew it is no longer the same. But you're still there. You're being that mama bear. What advice would you give for people who are listening, who are walking alongside a family, who is experiencing what you're describing? What are the best ways to support them?

Emily Gazzaway: So for me, from. From a mom perspective, for me, people are going to want to help. Let them help. That's what I say. It's one of the things that I learned losing Kadin. And even before losing Kadin, when he was first initially diagnosed and, you know, people were bringing meals and dropping off gift cards. You know, this was well before the time of Venmo and Cash app and all of that. You know, they wanted to help. They wanted to do something to help us. Let. If you're in a situation, and it doesn't have to be childhood cancer awareness or childhood cancer diagnosis, when you're in a situation, let. Let people help. We, as a mom and as. As a dad, we always try to be the strong ones. We want to be. We want to be able to handle it all. We want to be able to do it all. It's important to let people help you and take some of that burden from you so that you can be there for the moments that really matter.

Dr. Jessica Peck: That's really helpful because sometimes it can be so hard to let people in because it's. It's hard to let people see your suffering so up close. Sometimes I think, too, you know, just to see that and to, be vulnerable in that way. But there, it's so important to let people help because you do need it. And during this time, you had a daughter. And I always have a heart for those siblings because it is. It's a special kind of burden that they have because they're not sick. They are grateful to not be sick, but maybe also feel guilty that, you know, they weren't. Or maybe some fear, is there just thinking, okay, this was in my family. And. And then all of the needs are so centered around the child who's fighting that cancer or whatever it is. Just like you said, Emily, this is. So many families who are going through health challenges with their children. What was it like for her and how do you honor his memory with her going. Going forward?

Billy Gazzaway: Oh, well, initially. Well, first off, her name. Her middle name is, Cera C E R A. And Kadin loved dinosaurs. He was all about dinosaurs. And one of his favorite movies was Land Before Time. So her middle name is based off the triceratops, that movie.

Dr. Jessica Peck: That's so cute.

Billy Gazzaway: Honor him in that. And she loves it. Once we. She was old enough to understand and we told her the story behind that. I mean, she's embraced it. She loves it. she has triceratops stuffies all in her room everywhere she goes. So it's so precious. Yeah, it's really precious. she, And we tell her, I guess we. We're not a. We don't hold anything back. I mean, she hasn't asked us any specific questions, obviously, about what it was like and anything like that. But anytime she has a question, we do our best to answer it. Obviously. It's always honesty and. And some of the stuff, will hold back from telling her until we think she's absolutely ready. But she, She loves it. She tells everyone she has a brother, and. And it's great to hear her talk about him, even though she's never met him. well, never. Never met him on Earth, I'll say. Because there was some stuff as a kid that it really challenged our, like, what we believe in, and. And it's like she knew him and. And it was. It was. It was awesome to experience that because we're like, man, because we want to see him, we want to feel him, we want to hear his voice again. And then for her to Say stuff that only he would know or he would do. was. Was kind of amazing when she was real little. So it's just. It's just great. And her voice when she was little sounds just like him. So that was also. At first, it was nerve. It was scary because we would hear her in a different room and then. Then, yeah.

Emily Gazzaway: But a gift.

Dr. Jessica Peck: What a gift in that way.

Even though Avery was not alive when Kadin was here, she's aware of him

Emily, do you want to add anything?

Emily Gazzaway: So the only thing that I would add is that even though Avery was not alive when Kadin was here, she's always been very aware of her brother and grateful that we have been able to share his legacy with her. She, from a very young age, wanted to be a doctor. She wanted to help people. That has not gone away. She's kind of changed the trajectory a little bit. Put potentially in, you know, specified, but changed the trajectory of what kind of doctor she wants to be. But also, we have always encouraged her to let her know that even though we. We, mom and dad went through this terrible thing and we lost Kadin, and he's still very central part of our lives. She has always shined on her own. We don't ever want her to believe that or to feel that she in some way is overshadowed by him. You know, we. And I say that because we never had two of them together in the same household. We want to make sure that we keep them separate but also connected, if that makes sense.

Billy Gazzaway: Yeah. I remember the conversation when she turned 5. I was like, avery, okay, we need some grace here. We've never had a kid after the age of five. We don't know what we're doing.

Emily Gazzaway: And she would ask questions. She once asked me, why are there so many pictures of Kadin in the house and no pictures of me? And I said, well, honey, see you every day. We gotta wait to see Kadin.

Dr. Jessica Peck: So that's a great answer. And plus, second child. You know, that's my. My second child tells. That's a second child thing, right? Like, by the time the baby is, you're like, well, we got the baby pictures in a box somewhere. That just tends to happen.

Billy has been very open about his struggle with alcohol and faith

But, you know, all throughout this, you know, you all have. You've been very transparent with sharing your story. And I think your faith journey, was a bit of a roller coaster. You know, you had highs, you had lows, and the lows were really low. And Billy, you've shared your story. I've read the story that you've shared with Air Force Communities and about your struggle turning to alcohol and just coping with the unbearable pain. Because I think people just can't understand what that pain is like. What was that faith journey like for you? When did you hit rock bottom and how did you turn it around?

Billy Gazzaway: Well, May 2nd that night. That was. I think I prayed one more time. And then I was done. So. And I didn't pray for. For years. I would remember talking. Remember talking to one of my sisters, and she's like, I'm not praying either. I'm done. We're done with God. We're done with all this. And I just remember that feeling. Anytime someone came up to me and, a believer came up to me and was like, hey, man, let me pray for you. I was like, man, I really don't want it. I don't. I don't want to hear the plan God has for me. I don't want to hear how he's going to turn this into good. I don't want to hear all that. And then growing up in church, I mean, every Wednesday, every Sunday, I was pretty much in church. I wish I would have read the Book of Job, before all this happened. But, it was. I just couldn't. I couldn't understand, the pain or why. And I was blaming everything on God because I didn't know. I didn't know Satan, ruled the Earth, and he can manipulate things and making us blame God and that it's all his fault. And I knew God was good, but it all went away that night. And for her, and then alcohol, I mean, it was. I mean, obviously I drank before, but it was every single weekend. And sometimes every single every other day. At least, to the point of blacking out. but mostly just drinking where I'd forget and. Which is totally opposite of what alcohol does. It just becomes more of a depressant. And. But for her, I wouldn't go to counseling, even though it was offered. And everyone in the Air Force is saying, I need to go see a grief counselor. I need to go speak to someone and help me get through the season. And she went immediately. I mean, she was very regimented. But for me, it was. I can do this myself. Kind of like the guy thing. I can handle this myself. My default was, I'm the one who can fix this. What's going on? And so it was. And then, on some crazy day in California when we're stationed in California, I was like, I think I'm gonna go back to church. I was. Started running the marathons, and. And I was just running, and I was listening. I Can't even remember the name of the song, but it said something. I don't need to know that God exists, because I can just see my daughter every day and know that he exists and that he's good. So then I told Emily, I said, I think I'm ready to go back to church. At least try. And I went. She's like, I'm not ready. I'm trying to make this long story short. And then we got stationed somewhere else, and. And that was real hard. Like, she hinted on earlier, moving all the time and having to retell that story was, very difficult. and then when we got to Ohio, that was rock bottom for both of us. but this is when we separated, that the alcohol kind of. It wasn't as bad anymore in turning alcohol. Actually seeing a counselor in California before we left Ohio. And she was a believer and was able to help me to understand a little bit more. but rock bottom hit then, we separated. We're on our way to get divorced. And, I just. There was no one. It was just a new place with no friends. And so for me, that was rock bottom. I'm not sure about her, but for me, it was definitely rock bottom. And. And there's, like. I won't say there's any hate towards us during that. Even the. Our lawyers were like, are you guys sure you want to do this? Like, y' all are too amicable. What's going on here? And, like, yes, for sure. It. And even our doctors, Kadin's doctors are like, there's, like, less than a 5% chance you guys are going to make it, after this day. So they would always check in on us as well, after 2006.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, you know, Billy, I'm so grateful that you're sharing so transparently. This is so real, and it's so raw, but it is a natural human response to pain. And I'm really grateful that you shared that, because I know there's other people who just feel like, what do I do? And in sharing that and that way, I want to come back to it in just a second and explore that further.

Emily and Billy struggled with grief after losing their son Kadin

But first, let's go to Emily and what was your perspective? Share your side of this story during that time.

Emily Gazzaway: So Billy touched on it, earlier, where. When Kadin passed away, I would. I'm a checklist person, so we're gonna. I have to go to counseling. He's. He's passed away. So this is what we do. We go to counseling. And I would check all of the boxes, and that's how it was for me for a very long time. And because I was that way in my grief process, I. I wasn't there for Billy in his grief process. We're two very different. And that is kind of how we ended up on the divorce path, where I didn't know how to help him, he didn't know how to help me. We were going to counseling together, but still very separate. We weren't talking about our feelings. We weren't talking about how it has affected us. M. And as crazy as that sounds, no one in the whole world knows what I experienced when I lost Kadin, except Billy, and vice versa. But we refused to talk to each other about it, because when I was okay, he didn't want to make me sad. And when he was okay, I didn't want to make him sad. I didn't want to be the one to say, I'm not okay. If you're okay, we're just going to pretend like everything's okay. And so we went many, many years where we just kind of didn't talk to each other about how we were really feeling, to a huge detriment to our. Our marriage and our relationship, even after Avery was born.

Dr. Jessica Peck: again, it's so refreshingly honest to hear you say that. And the thing that strikes me as I'm listening to you is that, you know, you. You go through this unimaginable pain. I. I, as a pediatric nurse, I have heard parents say so many times, like, they. They won't even say the word cancer. They'll say the C word because it's so scary to them. And they will say, this is my worst nightmare, which is really painful to parents who are walking through that thinking, yes, I'm living your worst nightmare. That's how much parents fear that. And so I think knowing the depth of that pain is just impossible if you haven't walked in those shoes. But you're describing, on your faith journey, you know, talked about stepping away from church and just this kind of, you know, just roller coaster of, faith. Like, there's little moments of breakthrough, and there's. There's drawing close and there's running away. And yet somehow you're sitting here saying, okay, we've grieved both ways. We've grieved without our faith. We've grieved with our faith. And what I see is you sitting here on the other side of it saying, it's better to grieve with hope. It's better to grieve with faith. Is. Is that an Accurate reflection of what I'm seeing in your heart.

Emily Gazzaway: Oh, a hundred percent. A hundred percent. Looking back on it, you can, you can. You can't see it in it, right? Because, you know, hindsight's always 20 20. You can't see it because you're in it. And then you get to the other side of it and you. And you realize that he was there the whole time. He never left. He was there the whole time. And you think to yourself, if I had. If I had just been obedient, if I had just been faithful. He was faithful. If I had just been faithful, what, how different that would have been for our journey.

Dr. Jessica Peck: yeah, I think that's really powerful. And then looking now we're going to talk when we come back about your life and ministry.

Billy and Emily Gazzaway go from rock bottom to ministry

I mean, really, Billy, this is a very unlikely story. I'm sure you never thought you would go from just rock bottom, as you were describing, to now ministering to others. There is hope. There is hope even in places that seem so hopeless. And both of you, Emily and Billy, thank you so much for sharing because I think that's so powerful to see that you've walked in both of those places. And you say, but Jesus is better, but hope is better, but faith is better. And to see the two of you praise God for the restoration of your marriage. And when we come back, we'll have more from m. The incredible testimony of Billy and Emily Gazzaway and their amazing son, Kate. And don't go away. We'll be right back.

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Hymn of Heaven by Phil Wickham: And mercy fills the streets to look upon the one who bled to save me and walk with him for all eternity. There will be a day when all will bow before for him. There, will be a day when death will be no more. Standing face to face with he who died and rose again. Holy, holy is the Lord.

Kadin Gazzaway lost his battle with cancer nearly two decades ago

Dr. Jessica Peck: Welcome back, friends. That song is Hymn of Heaven by Phil Wickham. and I confess I am a crybaby and I have tears in my eyes. Today we are honoring the Life and legacy of a little boy named Kadin, who lost his battle with cancer, but won the war over grief and death and pain, and is now in the presence of Jesus. And we are talking to his parents, Billy and Emily Gazzaway, about that journey of grief. That is what parents just strikes fear in their heart. And we look on the outside and we can't imagine they have walked this valley literally, of the shadow of death, and have shared their experience in the journey with that and shared how finding their faith is what has saved them and what is now saving other people going forward. And now it's nearly two decades since he has gone to be with Jesus. And Billy is not the same man who once bottled his pain in silence. And he has found healing and counseling and faith in the love of his wife and the restoration of his marriage, in the joy of their daughter, Avery. And now he is in ministry himself, which is just absolutely incredible.

Emily and Billy talk about the real nature of grief after losing a child

So, Emily and Billy, we were just talking during the break, and before we talk about what life is like today, I think it's important for us to talk about the real nature of grief. It's not like you, you know, found faith and you. You found joy. You found, like, all of a sudden it's just cured. Your grief is just cured. Like, oh, and Jesus came in and he fixed it, and it's all good now. It's still hard. And there are some things that won't be healed the side of heaven. So what does that look like for you, even now, all these years later?

Billy Gazzaway: well, it's. The hard days aren't. I won't say they're not really hard. I mean, there's joy in it. And when I would think back when something would happen, as we were saying earlier, like if a song played or if there was a smell or we think we hear his voice or something like that, we would. We would initially would get sad and we would go back into a, I don't even know the steps of grieving anymore. It's been so long, but we. I feel like I would go backwards into that. But now it's. I don't know, it's joy. Like you said, we found joy, and there's joy and the memories that we have, it's not sad for us or for me. I'm sorry. For me, it's not sad anymore. There's joy. I smile every single time that I think of a crazy memory or something crazy that he said or did. even in the heart, even in those moments when I think about the last few seconds, like you said, knowing where he is and who he's with, that. That's where the joy and the hope all comes from. And. And it took years to let that be the default. And lots of prayers and lots of counseling and lots of talking to. To pastors who. Who are like, man, this is real. Where your son is, is where we all want to be. And he is experiencing joy. He is in paradise, and you can bet on that. So that's the hope that I live in and the joy that we get. So some days are bad, but not as bad as it used to be. Within seconds, there's joy. Yeah.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Yeah. Oh, what. What a gift from the Lord. And Emily, what. What is your experience? Like it.

Emily Gazzaway: And it's. It's very similar to Billy's. Mine is a little bit, A little bit different. Mine is the longing. You know, there has been with Avery a lifetime of. I should I say a lifetime. Her whole lifetime of memories. You know, we. We have five years, almost five years of memories with Kadin. And so it's the longing of, what. What his hobbies would have been, what his. You know, the earthly things that I. I missed, that I've gotten to experience with Avery, that there is pain and heartache still that comes with that longing. But there's also joy. I got five years on this side to be his mother, and it is the. One of the greatest joys of my life, getting to raise him and do life with him on this side. It will carry me through the rest of my days.

Dr. Jessica Peck: I can't. I can't even imagine, because that. That's the hope of Christ, that we believe that Kadin is alive and in the presence of Jesus, and you will be reunited one day with the greatest joy that you can ever possibly imagine. And I feel like I'm thinking of that scripture about this is just a momentary affliction, that absence from him, that separation from him. But that is the hope that we find in Christ in knowing that God created Kadin, knowing exactly what his journey would be, and knowing that in a way that we cannot understand, he would use his life for your good and for his glory, and one day that will somehow be made right again. I, can't even say that I understand it, but I think it's so important to look at the contrast and for you to stand there and say, we've grieved both ways, but grieving with hope is where we find hope. Grieving with hope is better. I just really. I want people to hear that because I think There's a lot of curiosity on how. How can you trust in a God? How can you believe in a God who allows these kinds of things to happen? And it's just in walking with the Lord every single day and him revealing those mysteries to you, sending you signs like a butterfly, those things are beautiful. But really, counseling was an important part of your journey, too. And I think that that can be really hard, especially for people who are believers. They think I just need to dig in and really, you know, have my faith. Where did counseling really partner with that faith perspective to give you practical tools to move forward in healing?

Emily Gazzaway: Well, I am. I am a believer, and I'll speak on this because I, Even to this day, in and out of counseling, and I. I've come to terms. I shouldn't say come to terms. That makes it sound terrible, but I've come to understand that I will probably for the rest of my life be weaving in and out of, various forms of counseling. I think for me, knowing that God has blessed certain people to walk on this earth, to walk alongside them and help them with the feelings that they have and the emotions that they have. And a lot of times I, 100% believe that Kadin dying not just fundamentally changed me as a person, physiologically changed me. Part. They. There's that. There's that, you know, physiologicalness that Kadin will always. A part of him will remain in me because I carried him for nine months. So physiologically, when he passed away, I believe that my body changed, my ability to cope with things changed. That doesn't mean I go to the Lord less. It just helps me understand how to process things differently and to see things differently, to talk myself through. This is momentary. These feelings that I'm having are momentary. I. I can get through this. Let me find a moment to be thankful for something that. Going hand in hand with everything that we read in the Bible. And then what doctors have been blessed with, to pass along knowledge and ways to help people. I 100% believe that.

Dr. Jessica Peck: I appreciate you saying that.

Billy, what was your experience with grief counseling in the Air Force?

And Billy, what was your experience? You've already shared a little bit about your hesitancy to go there and your reluctance to go there. What was your journey like in that?

Billy Gazzaway: Well, first I'll say go. Just go.

Emily Gazzaway: Good, good.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Say it. Say it louder for the people in the back.

Billy Gazzaway: Yes, 100%, go. And. And not because you don't know how to cope with. Well, you don't. You really don't. If. Especially if you've never grieved before. I mean, I've lost loved ones before, but this type of pain that we were feeling and going through was something you'll never, ever be able to, comprehend. And unless you're talking about it and. And being able to. And luckily for me, the counselor I got in the Air Force, she was a believer, and she didn't push it on me. She just let me know that she was. And she knew that I didn't want to hear anything about God, but every now and then, she would just give me a little scripture every now and then. And. But it was just the way that she handled herself. I think I paid more attention to that, how she handled herself and the kindness and the grace and. And how she just talked to me differently than the counselor I had before. It was, It was great. And it. And it doesn't. To me, it didn't matter. Everywhere we went and every duty station we went to, I had to go see another person. And they were. They were all great, and they all helped in this journey and were able to articulate things that. About my feelings and what I was going through in the grieving process and. And turn it into. What we're all talking about is this thing of hope and who Jesus is in all of this. And. And it was great to experience. So definitely go, go, go.

Dr. Jessica Peck: And now, Billy, you're a youth pastor. I mean, do you think that if you hadn't experienced what you experienced with Kadin, do you think that you would have ended up in ministry? How did. How did you end up in ministry? How did you do such a 180 from that man who was angry with this back turned on God saying, I'm done with church. I'm, walking away from that and. And trying to comfort and other coping mechanisms that were destructive. How did God call your heart back to where now not only do you have that faith yourself, you're sharing it with other people?

Billy Gazzaway: Oh, well, I'll put this in, hopefully in less than five minutes. But it started in Ohio when it started going back to church. One of. I was a mar. I would train athletes to run marathons. And one of our athletes, one of my athletes, she was like, y' all need to go to this church or just go to this church. And. And we went. And we were separated at the time, and I went. And I was like, emily, you got to come hear this preacher. I swear he's talking about us. He is talking about what we went through. And. And I said, we don't have to sit together. Let's Just go. And we kind of sat next to each other, and we were separated. And then, sure enough, I mean, we physically looked around the church because we thought we were the only ones in there. And music was just different at that church, too. It was more the. I won't say contemporary music. It's just. It was just different music that we've never heard before. and so that kind of started it back. And then we got stationed in Colorado Springs again. And I stopped going back to church, went, to Afghanistan and all this stuff. And we were trying to find. We were trying to get back together and redo everything. And Emily was like, I think I'm gonna go find a church. I was like, okay. When I was in Afghanistan, I was like, sounds great. And when I got back, there was just nothing that we could connect to. And then I was in a squadron band, and we were singing, I don't know, Journey or something like that. And this chaplain walked up to me and he goes, hey, I don't know who you are, but I think you're supposed to help me start a worship band here on Peterson Air Force Base. And I've been praying about this two years. And I told God, or I asked God, if you don't show me a sign this week, I'm done pursuing this. It's not of you, so it won't be good. And then I came to this thing, and you're up here singing, and God told me to go talk to you. And. And what the crazy thing was, I said, okay, let me talk to the band. I didn't know two of the band members were atheists. And so I was like, well, this is never going to work. And as we're pack. As we're packing up our, equipment, one of the atheists goes, hey, is this going to help people? And I was like, oh, no, God, what are you doing? And I was like, yeah. And he goes, well, if it's going to help people, I'll do it. And the other atheist was like, well, if he's going to do it, I'm going to do it. And. And then. So I started off as. They hired me as a worship director of all things, and I didn't know anything.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Two atheists?

Billy Gazzaway: Yes. And. And one of them ended up okay. And I used to tell people I knew God had a sense of humor, because if you look at the platypus, and now I'm like, God has a sense of humor. That. And that brought me into ministry and the 99 and 1, like, we are the one. We found our way back. And he. Well, we found our way back to him. And like Emily said, he was always there. And we take that for granted a lot. And so I started becoming a worship pastor. And then I would always hang out with the kids that would sit up front and I would. I would ask, can I please, like, lead worship in front of the kids? And I would end up just hanging out with them a lot. And I was like, man, I think I'm supposed to be a youth pastor in all of this. So, I called back home to my hometown in Woodville, and there were two churches. The one I went. Grew up in, and then the other church, the Baptist church, across the street. And yeah, in 2018 B, I was going to. I interviewed, for the. I'll say the other side, because everyone at the, at the church, I grew up with like, I can't believe you're going to that church.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, Billy, that is absolutely amazing. Billy and Emily, thank you so much for sharing your incredible, incredible testimony. And thank you so much for allowing our family here at the Doctor Nurse Mama show to really honor the life and legacy of Kadin. And I think it's such a beautiful affirmation of life that he was on earth for not even five years, and yet his legacy lives on. And Billy, you mentioned at the beginning of the program you wished you'd read the Book of Job, but you know, the end of the Book of Job is where God redeems, he restores, he renews, he redeems everything that was lost. And I believe that he will do that. And it is so beautiful to see the fruit of that. Thank you so much for helping us find hope when situations seem absolutely hopeless. And to my listeners, I hope that you'll do something today to support National Child Cancer Awareness Month. Whether that's a donation to the organization of your choice, volunteering or serving or loving on a family who's walking through that, God bless you all. And for the families who are walking through this, may the Lord bless you and keep you and make his face to shine upon you and be gracious to you and give you peace. And I pray that blessing over every one of you listening. I'll see you right back here tomorrow.

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Jeff Chamblee: opinions expressed in this broadcast may not necessarily reflect those of the American Family association or American Family Radio.

September is Childhood Cancer Awareness Month. Jessica talks with Billy and Emily Gazzaway about their son Kadin and their family's journey through the grief of losing a child. 

https://afr.net/podcasts/the-dr-nurse-mama-show/2025/september/billy-gazzaway-retired-us-air-force-youth-pastoremily-gazzaway-retired-us-air-force/

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