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Dr. Jessica Peck: We would like to take a moment to thank our sponsor, PreBorn. When a mother meets her baby on ultrasound and hears their heartbeat, it's a divine connection. And the majority of the time she will choose life. But they can't do it without our help. Preborn needs us, the pro life community, to come alongside them. One ultrasound is just $28. To donate, dial pound 250 and say the keyword baby or visit preborn.com/AFR hello

Todd Nettleton: and welcome to the Dr. Nursemama for Healthy Families here on American Family Radio. Here's your host, professor, pediatric nurse practitioner, and mom of four, Dr. Jessica Peck.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, hello there, friends, and welcome to my favorite time of the afternoon, getting to spend time with you, prescribing Hope for Healthy Families. Now, you may be hearing some background noise and thinking, jessica, where in the world are you? Well, I am actually in Nashville, Tennessee, coming to you live from the national religious broadcasters. And I'm here with Sarah. So many people who are walking the convention floor who are all thinking about you. How can we encourage you? How can we equip you? And one of those people here with me today is Todd Nettleton. He serves as the chief of media relations and message integration for Voice of the Martyrs. We've had Todd on the show before and he is thinking about how can we equip you to pray for the persecuted church?

We hear about Christians who are persecuted in other parts of the world

This is something that is on the heart of a lot of Christians around the world. We hear about Christians who are persecuted in other parts of the world and, and we want to pray for them. And many of us, we live in a world where faith is something that we practice very freely. I'm here practicing my faith very freely, even here at this conference. But churches are accessible for the most part in the United States. Bibles are abundant. You probably have a bunch of Bibles on your shelf at home. You probably have the Bible app on your phone. You can go to the store, you can Amazon a Bible to you very, very quickly. But the world across the globe is. It is not that way for millions of Christians. There are Christians who are worshiping in secret and living in fear.

Todd: How do we tell kids about missions without overwhelming them?

And for parents at home, I want to talk about this today because we ask ourselves, how much should we tell our kids about this? Because if you will remember maybe the days of Girls in Action, Royal ambassadors, anybody out there, mission programs, we would talk about missions, but in a way that was very safe and accessible for kids. Now kids are seeing viral videos of Christians being beheaded. Frankly, that is the things that's happened. So how do we tell them these stories without overwhelming them. And how do we tell them in a way that inspires courage, not fear? Todd, we're pretty much gonna solve world peace in the next 12 minutes and 26 seconds. Are you up for it?

Todd Nettleton: I'm ready. Let's go.

Voice of the Martyrs is a ministry to persecuted Christians

Okay.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, we've had you on before, and you have shared your testimony and how you have come to work for Voice of the Martyrs. Let's dive right in and just give everybody a brief, overview of Voice of the Martyrs. Tell them a little bit about your work. Reintroduce yourself.

Todd Nettleton: Yeah. Voice of the Martyrs is a ministry to persecuted Christians. So we are working in more than 70 nations around the world where Christians are persecuted for their faith. One of the unique things about the DNA of Voice of the Martyrs is our founders, Pastor Richard Wurmbrand and his wife, Sabina. They were persecuted Christians. Pastor Wurmbrand spent 14 years in prison in communist Romania. Sabina spent three years in prison. And so when they came to the west, they knew what it was like to be in the solitary confinement cell. They knew what it was like to not know if your spouse was alive or dead or what had happened to them. And so they had that firsthand experience to share from. And more than just telling their own story, they said, hey, there are still pastors in those prisons, because they were out from behind the Iron Curtain, but there were a lot of pastors still there. And so they would say, hey, there's this pastor in this prison. And people like you and me, we hear that, and we say, well, how are we going to help that pastor? What are we going to do? And that's how the Voice of the Martyrs was founded, was to be the answer to that question, really to be a bridge between the church in America and the church in hostile and restricted nations. And, next year, it will be 60 years. that Voice of the Martyrs has been in action, serving and hearing and sharing amazing stories of our brothers and sisters facing persecution.

The book is called When Faith Is Forbidden: 40 days on the Front Lines with Persecuted Christians

Dr. Jessica Peck: You've told some of those stories in the book that you have that's right here with you. I'd love for you to share about that.

Todd Nettleton: I do. The book is called when faith is forbidden. 40 days on the Front Lines with Persecuted Christians. It is 40 of the most powerful stories that I've heard from persecuted Christians in my now almost 28 years working at VOM. And the, genesis of the book, frankly, is I would come home from a trip. I would tell in my Sunday school class or in my Bible study group.

Heather Johnson: Oh, wow.

Todd Nettleton: We met this Pastor, it was so amazing. And inevitably someone would say, well, man, I wish I could come on a trip with you. And, you know, that's not always possible. Some of these countries, you don't want more than one American walking around at the same time. And, this book is my answer to that. Hey, come with me. Let's go on a journey. Every day for 40 days, we're going to meet a persecuted Christian. We're going to sit down with them, we're going to hear their story. And my promise, I honestly, I think it's a divine promise. On day 41, your faith will, will look different because you can't spend 40 days with persecuted Christians and then just get up and live your life the way you have always been living it. Because their stories challenge us. They challenge what we believe and how we're living it out.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, Todd, I've read the book and it's amazing because you have hundreds and hundreds of stories of persecuted Christians that you can share. And sharing the top 40 must have been a difficult thing to do. But in reading through them, it is so powerful, you cannot help but be moved. I found myself so much more grateful for the freedoms that I had and so much more convicted to pray for persecuted Christians around the world. And when we talk about, you know, the stories that we're reading, we think about those stories. I'm reading those as an adult. But these are stories that we need to share with children in a developmentally appropriate way. So how do we start to talk to kids about these things in a way that builds their faith and just doesn't fill them with fear?

Todd Nettleton: So let me tell you, when people ask me, well, how did you start working at Voice of the Martyrs? one of the things that I go back to is when 10 year old Todd and my brother, 8 year old Trent, every night my dad would read to us before we went to bed. And so of course he read the Chronicles of Narnia, he read some of those great, you know, amazing stories. But he also read to us books like Bruchko by Bruce Olson, which is the story of a missionary going to a tribe in South America. He read Lords of the Earth by Don Richardson, which is the story of an amazing heroic missionary named Stanley Albert Dale, reaching a, tribe in Irian Jaya. And somehow what that did is that planted in my heart a this amazing adventure like going through the jungle. There's a story in Bruchko where he got so hungry that a parasite had crawled up into his throat and he pulled a parasite out of his mouth. I've always remembered. I heard that story 45 years ago.

Dr. Jessica Peck: New Nightmare Unlocked.

Todd Nettleton: It is fresh in my mind still. So that, that adventure part, certainly as a little boy, that captivated me. But the idea that someone who sacrifices for the sake of the gospel is a hero. That's what I do today, is go meet those heroes and tell their stories. And so many of the seeds that were planted back then have now the Lord has brought them to fruition. Now I read a couple years ago, my boys were younger and I read them Lords of the Earth. And you know, as I was reading, I, it was funny because I clearly my dad had edited some like, like as he was reading it, I'm like, I don't remember that part of the story. Oh. So I had to do some editing as well. So.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Right.

Todd Nettleton: You definitely want to do it in a way that's appropriate and you want to do it. But I think one of the biggest things is not to let it be a fear thing.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Right.

Todd Nettleton: Oh man. You know, people are going to attack us for our faith, so we better build up big walls and hunker down. No, people are going to attack us for our faith because that's what the Bible says. So we better be ready. We better be ready to have an answer to give them and to forgive them and to love them. And those are challenging, challenging things. But we can't pass on these stories with a sense of, oh, you know, son, daughter, you need to be afraid because you might get persecuted someday. God is faithful. We don't have to be afraid. The Bible says that again and again and again.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, the pediatric nurse in me and the mom in me is picturing 10 year old Todd, 8 year old Trent with wide eyes. Definitely no way. But it's great to see that your dad edited those for where you were developmentally, but still sharing those stories of faith. And one of the things I think that is really important for parents to hear and one of the things I'm sure it did for you was it shifted your focus. It tells you this world is not everything. Yes, we are here, but we are living for eternity. And that can be a really hope filled place to be and a norm to set early on that yeah, we are here for this world, but we are here for eternity. How did those messages get planted in your heart?

Todd Nettleton: You know, I think one of the, one of the Postscripts to that 10 year old Todd is when Todd was 12, my parents moved to Papua New Guinea. My parents were missionaries. And so at age 12 we moved to Papua NewSong guinea. And frankly, our little family conversation before that move, it was a three to one vote. And I was the one. I wanted to stay in California. I didn't want to move to Papua NewSong Guinea. and so understanding that this is what God's called us to do, so we're going to say yes, we're going to do that. And maybe we don't love everything about this, but we're still going to say yes, because this is what God is calling, calling us to do. So they planted that seed. The other thing, and I think it's great thing for parents, maps and flags. Yeah. If you don't have a world map somewhere up in your house, where your kids can go, oh, where's that? Oh, where's that? And you know, when you see the news or when you read a story, you can point it out. Oh, that's that country. That's where that happened. just giving them a broader perspective that, hey, there's, there's a lot more to the world than my little town or even my country. There's lots of things to see and do and places to go and, just giving them that perspective. Like you say, that perspective, somehow I think if that's in your foundation, there's going to be some international fruit that grows out of that.

Dr. Jessica Peck: I think it also can give kids a sense of courage, because if they're reading these stories, we can reassure them, we can tell them if they're living here in the United States, the likelihood of them facing that kind of persecution is very small, but they will be persecuted in smaller ways. And so reading these stories of courage, thinking, okay, if this person could be that brave, I think about, you know, stories like, Annie Armstrong or other missionaries that I've read about that were incredibly brave, or Jim Elliott would be another missionary that I grew up hearing about. Then I can be brave enough to share the gospel with somebody sitting with me at lunch.

Todd Nettleton: And one of the ways that that happens in hostile and restricted nations is through prayer. And I think this is a great thing to encourage our kids as well. You know, you're in a conversation with someone and they say, oh, my mom is sick. Oh, my dad is sick. Can I pray right now in Jesus name for your mom, for your dad. And we've heard so many stories from around the world. Even, especially it seems like in Hindu countries where someone goes to the witch doctor and they go to all the temples and they make all the offerings and they're still sick, and then they Meet a Christian, they go to a church, the Christians pray for them in Jesus name. And now they're well. And it's like, well, you don't have to do very much work evangelizing them at that point. It's like, you know the guy who answered your prayer? Yeah, I can tell you about him. Oh, I want to know that. and so I think encouraging our kids to be willing in conversation on the playground. Oh, man, I'm so sorry to hear that. Let's pray right now. And then they let Jesus do the work. You pray, let Jesus do the work, and then that will open up hearts and they'll be ready to hear the gospel.

Todd: The first thing persecuted Christians want us to do is pray

Dr. Jessica Peck: That is a great point, Todd. I love teaching kids to pray out loud right now. That is something that we as adults should do, and a lot of us as adults have a problem with. That is something I really worked over the last few years to change in my life when there's a need. Not saying, oh, I'll pray for you. Because the honest truth is I really am starting to sin in that moment because I'm lying. I, will forget, you know, I. I won't. I'm well intentioned. But there is something really powerful about saying, let's stop and pray for that right now. Whether you're driving down the street and you see an ambulance and somebody's on their way to the hospital, or you hear on a radio show like American Family Radio about Christians being persecuted, and you see kids with anxiety building up about that saying, that's scary. What does that mean? And giving a simple, developmentally appropriate explanation along with that really powerful, hey, we can go to God about this right now. And God is sovereign. That's a good message to get, don't you think?

Todd Nettleton: And it's the first thing persecuted Christians want us to do more than rescue them, more than, you know, send help, send whatever. The first thing they want us to do is pray. So when you do that, you're actually doing what they've asked you to do, and you're doing the most powerful thing you could do, which is pray.

Dr. Jessica Peck: And it shows our kids that we believe in the power of prayer. Prayer absolutely changes things. It's one of the most underrated things. I think we use it as social currency here in the United States. Like, we just. Oh, yes, it's just a socially appropriate thing to do, but it is a powerful tool that we have access to the throne room of heaven. And when you read about prayers and revelation, the scripture says that they're swirling before the throne of heaven, that those prayers mean something. Tell us where to go to find more about Voice of the Martyrs and how we can start to pray intentionally.

Todd Nettleton: So persecution.com is the main Voice of the Martyrs website. Right at the top of the page, there's a button that says free Magazine. If you click on that, we'll send you our monthly magazine. It has, names and faces and places, prayer requests, ways that you can pray and you can stay more connected with persecuted brothers and sisters. Again, that website, persecution.com and tell the

Dr. Jessica Peck: name of your book one more time as well.

Todd Nettleton: When faith is forbidden. 40 days on the front lines with persecuted Christians.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, we have so much more to talk about when Todd comes back. We're going to talk more about persecuted Christians around the world, what he's seeing, what you can do, how you can pray. And these stories, really importantly, remind us that faith is not just something that we believe. It is something that we are actively living out. And we're going to talk about how these stories, how these voices of the martyrs can inspire us to be hope filled, to be more bold in our own faith, and to take action, and how families will respond to that in meaningful ways. Thank you so much, Todd. So glad to have you here. So glad to have this conversation. And we'll be right back in just a minute with more from Voice of the Martyrs.

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Dr. Jessica Peck: Welcome Back.

Todd Nettleton shares stories about persecuted Christians around the world

Friends, I'm coming to you live from the floor of the National Religious Broadcasters Conference here in Nashville, Tennessee. If you hear the hum of the conference center, behind you know, that is the hum, of people talking about how to serve you, how to equip you, how to inform you, how to encourage you to live out your faith in different ways. And we are talking today with Todd Nettleton from Voice of the Martyrs about persecuted Christians around the world. And these stories of the persecuted church can feel really heavy. When we see videos, when we hear news reports, it can be really tempting just to turn off the news and think, I don't want to think about that. It just hurts my heart so much. But these are stories that are actually filled with joy and can give us hope in a future that is eternal. So we'll talk about how to receive those stories and what we can do about it. And, Todd, I'm sure that this is something that you encounter everywhere you go. I mean, you are not exactly going to be top of the list for. Oh, let's have an encouraging message come in. Why don't you tell us about persecuted Christians? How do you. How do you find hope? And yet, when I've talked to you before, you share about some of these stories, and I'm sure you may have some stories that you want to share today about how these stories, in the greatest pits of darkness and despair, can give you the greatest moments of hope.

Todd Nettleton: You know, I think it's the biggest misunderstanding among American Christians about our persecuted family members, and that's that sense of joyfulness. Because if, like you say, if you hear a story, hey, this pastor got beaten, and then he got thrown in prison. And then, you know, in prison, they beat him some more. And the picture we have in our mind is, wow, this. This pastor must be hugely depressed and discouraged. I just feel pity. I feel so sorry for him. But then when you go and sit down with these brothers and sisters, they have joy. They have the joy of the Lord sometimes literally radiating off of them. It's like they're more joyful than some of the people I go to church with in America. And I'm like, wait a minute, you've been beaten? You've been. You've had this happen. Just, a couple weeks ago, we had an Indian pastor on our Voice of the Martyrs radio program, and he was arrested. He was beaten by a mob. He was locked in prison. He was the only Christian in a prison of 1200 inmates. The inmates made it hard for him. it was Incredibly difficult. And so he tells his story. We shared this on Voice of the Martyrs Radio. And at the end of our time together, he said, would it be okay if I pray for you? Oh, wow. We're like, of course, yes. So the tape recorder was still running, and so we actually closed out the episode with his prayer. And part of his prayer was, lord, thank you for the blessing of allowing me to go to that prison and to tell other people about Jesus Christ. Thank you for blessing me with that experience. And my head is exploding. Like, I can't imagine, getting beaten on and then saying, oh, thank you, Lord. That, you know, it just is so amazing. But that's the thing that American Christians don't understand. The Bible talks about persecution is a blessing. you know, the disciples were beaten by the council, and then they left, rejoicing that they had been counted worthy to suffer for the name of Christ. That is still happening. That is being lived out around the world. People are being beaten, they are being locked in prison, and they are rejoicing that they were counted worthy. So I think that's the thing I like to lead with, to let people know. And I'm not going to tell you a depressing story. I'm going to tell you a joyful story. Now, is it an easy story? No, it's not an easy story at all. But there is joy because the Lord is at work, the Lord is in it. The Lord is empowering his people, and so we don't have to have that sense of depression. And I wish every Christian in America could go and meet some of these persecuted brothers and sisters, because it's one of the first thing that slips away is, oh, I thought you'd be depressed. And it's like, you're not depressed at all. You're joyful. What's going on?

Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, it's an interesting contrast to make, because when we think about Americans here in America, and we enjoy so many freedoms, there's a lack of joy. A lot of times, you know, we don't appreciate the freedoms that we have, or we may see some of the minor persecutions that we have in light of what other believers are facing in other parts of the world. And it's very easy to kind of sink into this pessimistic mentality, and it's not fair. And this is terrible here. And I can't believe that, you know, we live like this. How can we learn from those persecuted Christians, especially talk to somebody who is in America, maybe has not been on a mission trip, has not been exposed to other cultures, other governments that are much more oppressive. How can we really use their experience to transform our own attitudes to one of gratitude for the freedoms that we have and to walk fully in that freedom?

Todd Nettleton: Let me tell you a story that's in the book. The story of Sister Tang, who I met in China now, 20 some odd years ago. It's been a long time, but she had just been released from six months in prison, and she was caught hosting a house church meeting in her home. And so at that time, the police were raiding house churches. They would take everybody's picture, they would write down all your details. But whoever owned the house, they went to jail because, you know, they were in charge. They were hosting it. And so she had been in prison for six months, and she had just been released, like, a few weeks before I was there. And so we got to sit down with her, and I had a translator And, you know, I'm going to tell her story like I'm doing right now. And so, you know, you start a story, you need the setting. So let's, you know, let's paint a picture of your last six months in prison. And so I said, sister Tang, tell me about the prison. The translator translated the question, and Sister Tang got this heavenly smile on her face. And she said something in Chinese. And the translator said, oh, yes, that was a wonderful time. And I honestly, I look at the translator, I'm like, are you sure you understood my. Like, I. I was asking about prison. And yeah, I understood. are you sure Sister Tong understood? Because that. That doesn't make sense. And. And he's like, no, no, she understood. And so I said, okay, Sister Tong, you're gonna have to tell me, like, like, how can you say six months in prison was a wonderful time? She said two things. She said, jesus was so close to me in that prison cell. I, got to experience Christ in a way that I had never experienced him before. His presence was so close and so real and so personal to me. And she said, the second thing, there were ladies in my cell who didn't know Jesus when I got there, but they do know him now. And I got to be the one to introduce them. And they are following Jesus today because I was in that prison cell. So, two things. Jesus was with me, and Jesus gave me a ministry to do that was a one. That's the recipe for a wonderful time, the challenge. And I put this in the book, and it's a challenge for me, too. When I'm in a situation of hardship. My first prayer Is, Lord, get me out of this situation. My first prayer is almost never, lord, who are you trying to get me to minister to here? Why did you put me here? It is, Lord, get me out of here. And I think if we can pause for a beat, sort of borrow Sister Tong's classes and put them on and say, okay, Jesus, are you with me in this situation? Of course he is. He said he would be. Are you giving me a ministry to do now? Then I have to open my eyes and be willing to look around and say, okay, what is the ministry? What are you asking me to do in this situation? But if that's true, Jesus is with us, Jesus is giving us a ministry to do, then a hospital room could be a wonderful time. an unemployment office could be a wonderful time. Even a prison could be a wonderful time. And we need to. We need to put on that mindset and not go so fast to, Lord, how could you let this terrible thing happen to me? Get me out of here. No, Lord, what are you trying to do here? And how can I be a part of that?

Dr. Jessica Peck: These are so many great messages that as parents, as grandparents, that we can give to our children, that we can have courage in a world where our faith will be persecuted. We can learn how to step up and share our faith boldly. We can do that because the second lesson is that we are living for eternity. These investments, what Sister Tang was doing, she wanted them to be with her forever in eternity. It wasn't just about that moment in that prison cell. It was about their souls being saved. And that is really encouraging to me. And then just hearing about these, these stories, just saying that as kids are going through a tough time, to know that God is still at work, that he still sees, he still cares, he still works. Those are lessons that we can teach our kids.

More than 70 countries today, it will cost you to be a follower of Jesus Christ

from learning about the voices of the martyrs, what do you see happening globally? There's a lot of conversation. Even you and I, as we were sitting here, the program before us was talking about persecuted Christians in Nigeria. What are doing you seeing? What do you think that adults need to know to have a realistic view, to step out of our comfort zone and think, okay, we need to know this is going on.

Todd Nettleton: I think one of the things would be the scope. More than 70 countries today, it will cost you to be a follower of Jesus Christ. now, does that mean every Christian is going to go to jail? No, but it's going to be a regular part of following Christ. You're going to pay a price for that. And I think of some countries that maybe are less on our radar. India. Right now, there are dozens of pastors in prison in India because of the so called anti conversion laws that many of the states there have passed. Eritrea is one that is deep on my heart. I had the chance to visit there now more than 20 years ago. but there are seven pastors in prison in Eritrea who have been in prison for more than 20 years.

Heather Johnson: Wow.

Todd Nettleton: And they have never been charged with a crime. They never had a trial. They don't have like a 25 year sentence. And they're counting down the days. They just disappeared into the prison system. And now we're 20 years later and they're still in prison. and so Eritrea is a country a lot of us couldn't find on a map. So that's one for the map in your house. Go find Eritrea. Point that one out, put a flag there and pray for our pastor friends in Eritrea. The other one, and we mentioned Sister Tong. China, China is still persecuting Christians. That, that is happening every single day. There is a pastor that is serving a nine year prison sentence in China. There are a bunch of other pastors and leaders that were arrested last December. We're still waiting to know some, all of them, how long they will be in prison. but China is experiencing a crackdown as well.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, the voices of the martyrs. It really helps us to give our children a realistic portrayal of faith. Because sometimes in America, what we hear is, oh, follow the Lord and your life will be so much better. Follow God and he will answer all of your prayers and you'll be so much happier. And that really is not the reality of scripture. But how do we balance that with the hope and the message that even though it may cost you something, it is still worth everything? Go ahead.

Todd Nettleton: The challenge of that gospel message is trouble is going to come. We, we all know that, right? So if you heard that gospel message, then when trouble comes, you're like, well, what happened? This is not supposed to happen to me. I'm a Christian. Our brothers and sisters in a place like India or China, when they hear the gospel message, it is come to Jesus. You will have eternity with Christ, but your life here on earth is going to get worse. Like, prepare yourself. This is going to happen. So when they have hardship, they are like, oh, yeah, this is what I thought would happen. It is not, not a shock. It doesn't knock them as far off course. We need a little more of that in our faith walk as well.

Dr. Jessica Peck: We do deny yourself Take up your cross and follow me. That is what it is. It's died itself. But to live is Christ and to die is gained. We know those from the Scriptures.

Todd says the number one request from persecuted Christians around the world is prayer

Todd, you said earlier that the number one request from persecuted Christians around the world is prayer. Talk a little bit more about that, about how people can be intentional about praying. Because we're Voice of the Martyrs provides a lot of resources to be consistent and intentional about this.

Todd Nettleton: Let me share a quote first from a, pastor in Vietnam. He came and spoke in our chapel at vom, and he said, when you pray for Vietnam, you are working right alongside us in Vietnam.

Dr. Jessica Peck: That's amazing.

Todd Nettleton: So if you want your family to go to work in Afghanistan, you don't have to get on a plane. You can pray. You can go to work through the power of prayer in Afghanistan. Afghanistan Voice of the Martyrs has lots of tools to help you do that. I'm going to talk about two of them. One is our Global Prayer Guide. It's updated every year. it tells you the countries where Christians are persecuted, what is it like to be a Christian in China or Eritrea or Afghanistan so that you can pray those specific prayer requests. The other tool we have is an app for your phone, and it's just called the VOM app. And every day it pulls up a new prayer request. So every day you can, can pray. You can actually set it to remind you to pray at the same time every day, new prayer requests from persecuted Christians somewhere in the world. And that is a great tool. There is also in the app, ebooks, audiobooks, videos, information. The Global Prayer Guide is in there, lots of free material. And again, it's. It's equipping you to be able to pray yourself and to equip your family to pray as well.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, Todd, as you and I have been walking around this conference, one of the things that people are talking about the most is AI, Artificial intelligence, or OWL as my mother in law likes to call it. But that's a story for a different time. It is AI. And one of the things that strikes me about your ministry is that these are real people, real stories, real persecution. This is not theoretical. this is not being generated. As I'm looking at the paraguide that you're holding in your hand, there's a real woman's face on the COVID of that. How do you think that that's important as we look at the landscape of storytelling changing and how we can tell stories of real people with real hearts, real souls?

Todd Nettleton: Yeah. the biggest thing I want Christians in America to understand is that this is our family, these are our brothers and sisters. And once you understand that, once you make that family connection, I don't have to guilt you into caring. I don't have to try to manipulate you into giving or praying or doing anything. It's like, no, no, no, that's my family. Of course I'm going to pray for them. Of course I'm going to be involved in helping and encouraging them. So. But you, you can't have AI family. Right?

Dr. Jessica Peck: You cannot just. I, I feel like we have to say that. It's sad that we have to say it, but we need to say it out loud.

Todd Nettleton: Yeah, these are real people and ah, they are our family. And once we understand that, like I say it, it's the most natural thing in the world to pray for your family members. These are our family members.

What's the biggest challenge facing Voices of the Martyrs today?

Dr. Jessica Peck: What's the biggest challenge facing Voices of the Martyrs today?

Todd Nettleton: the biggest challenge for us, I would say, is on the international ministry side. Just the, you know, the nature of trying to get help into countries that don't necessarily want you to do that. there are security challenges, there's technology challenges. There's some of those challenges. If you pray for Voice of the Martyrs, that would be a great thing to pray for. Pray for our international ministry staff, because they do some hard things.

Dr. Jessica Peck: That is really good to know and to think about to pray for those specific logistics.

Todd Nettleton: Seeing how God is at work in places is exciting

And what do you see? What's the most exciting thing that is on the landscape for Voice of the Martyrs coming up?

Todd Nettleton: You know, I think the exciting thing is seeing how God is at work in places. We have a front row seat to how the gospel is taking over the world. And I, think about Iran. There's so much going on in Iran right now, but there is a bold, fiery, faithful church inside Iran and they are advancing the gospel. Even during protests on the streets. They're going to talking to people, oh, you don't like the government? Let me tell you about Jesus. You're not happy with Islam? Let me tell you about Jesus. And so that getting a front row seat to see that kind of excitement and the gospel advance, that's the best part of our jobs at vom.

Dr. Jessica Peck: That kind of courage is so inspiring. That is definitely not describing my typical Tuesday. It's very convicting to think, okay, if there are Christians around the world doing that, I can share the gospel with my co worker and I certainly can share the gospel with my children. I encourage parents who are listening out there to share stories, stories of missionaries, there are lots of great resources. You can contact us. We'd be glad to give you some suggestions. But ask your local children's minister about stories of missionaries that you can share, stories of great courage in sharing your faith. And, give those messages to your kids that God is in control. He sees them. He knows. He cares. And as you do that, I pray that the Lord will bless you and keep you and make his face to shine upon you. But listen, we'll be back in just a minute with more here from the National Religious Broadcasters. The AFR app is a powerful tool, but it does have limitations. You can't use it to change the oil in your vehicle or get rid of carpet stains. It won't walk The dog won't pick up the dry cleaning or take the kids to practice. But while you're doing those things, you can listen to your favorite AFR content through the app on your phone, smart device or Roku. Just go to your app store or visit afr.net listen to AFR wherever you go with the AFR app. podcasts of the Dr. Nurse Mama show are available on the podcast page at afr.net now back to Dr. Jessica Peck on American Family Radio.

Heather Johnson is the founder and executive director of Redemptive Dance Ministry

Dr. Jessica Peck: Hey friends, welcome back. We are coming to you live from the National Religious Broadcasters Conference. So if you hear a buzz of a convention floor, just know that we are right here in the heart of things, in the heart of so many ministries who are thinking about how do we inform you, how do we encourage you and equip you to live out your faith in different ways. And I hope that you were able to listen to our segments with Todd Nettleton and Voice of the Martyrs. And we've got another guest joining us here today. And today we are joined by Heather. She is the founder and executive director of Redemptive Dance Ministry. So stay with us here for a hard pivot because we have a big transition in topics, but all of these things are things that help encourage us for our faith. This organization, Redemption Dance Ministries, is a global discipleship organization that is devoted to restoring a biblical understanding of worship as embodied, as formative and as Christ centered. She has more than 20 years of ministry leadership and over 30 years of dance instruction and performance experience. And she equips leaders to disciple the next generation through scripture and prayer and God honoring movement. And her work reframes dance not as performance or self expression but as an offering to God, an act of obedience that engages the whole person. She has a heart first model of worship and I know there are A lot out there listening, who have girls especially who are involved in dance. And your perspective is just so refreshing, Heather. It really is. So thank you so much for joining us. I would love for you to introduce yourself to our listeners, tell them a little bit about you, your story, and how this ministry came to be.

Heather Johnson: Yes, thank you so much for having me. It's a delight to be here, and I'm excited about this. I grew up as a dancer. I love dance. I came to know Jesus at 8 years old, but nothing really changed in my life. And then when I was 15 years old, I had a radical conversion and Jesus became my dad, my father figure, truly. And I love to work with him. And so once, ah, that happened, a lot of my dance career didn't. It was siloed along with my faith. There were two separate things. And in 2010, he showed me how those things could be combined. He showed me that he designed dance, that the enemy only perverts and distorts. And so the things that I see in the world, it's not. Not of his design. It's not being used the way he designed it to be. And so he showed me that we could actually pull those things together. And he took the next four years to break down everything I thought I knew about the dance industry and build me back up in his design of it. And through that process, he showed me that it can be God honoring, it can be worshipful, joyous, full of gratitude. And that our physical movement is actually very important. And so the art of dance itself, it can be used in a way that can spread the gospel. It can be used in a way to attract people to the presence of the Holy Spirit, a different way to pray. It can be those things, but a safe environment so families know that their children are cared for.

Dr. Jessica Peck: I have seen expressions of dance movement in a way that does show share the gospel. I have been witness to that and seen a dance bring an audience to tears in a way that glorified God. And, you know, I'm sure that this is not an easy thing to talk about, because you do have, in our culture today, a lot of, a lot of continued silo. Like, yes, I'm a believer, but I also dance. And there's really no bridge in between that. And there's a lot of criticism of dance today, and we won't get too much into that.

Redemptive Dance Ministries reframing worship as movement

But let's talk a little bit about the reframe, because I think that's the important point here. Wherever you are along the continuum, the important reframe is that you are reframing this worship as movement. So tell us a little bit more about that.

Heather Johnson: Yes. the name is Redemptive Dance Ministries. And that speaks volumes because we truly are coming arm to arm with the Lord. And he's taking it back worldwide. He's. He's taking it back from the world. And he's creating safe spaces so that these dancers, these young children, can learn the joyous ways to move. And that's all styles, all dancers. We have a motto. We bring our best, and he makes it beautiful. And so the performance aspect, that, perfection aspect that the world has, that's not the case in our chapters in our programs. And you still learn the art of dance, but everything is Christ centered, and that's from instruction. So Christ centered instruction looks different than secular instruction. So even our bodies, how we're all created, you know, that's on purpose, that's by design. And we shouldn't be made to feel differently because we're in a dance class with different types of bodies. we learn alongside different skills, skill levels and skill sets. So everyone is in their own lane. And they're not working to be the best in their class from a performative standpoint. They're actually working to bring their best because a king deserves that. And so we offer it back to him in worship. And that's all styles and all dancers. And to see them do that in classes, it creates an environment for these kids to really feel good about what they're doing. They feel good. They feel like they're achieving things. They are. And then when we have the focus on the right place, when it's that we're doing it for the Lord, then it takes a lot of pressure off of the perfection aspect that the world seems to bring.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, what you're talking about really is spiritual formation and discipleship, which is wonderful, because if you have a child who is interested, interested or gifted in that way, you can integrate their discipleship into the biblical worldview, into everything that you're doing. And that's one of the reasons I'm such a fan of what you're doing. And when I was researching about your work, this isn't just something that's here in the United States. You're doing this all over, across countries, across cultures. And there are different ways that different cultures use dance as an expression of worship. And I saw some of your work that you had done in Africa and Kenya specifically. Can you tell us a little bit about that global movement?

Heather Johnson: Yes. I think it's Very important. John 17, we talk about what Jesus said on the cross to his people. And he really said when praying for future believers, he was praying for unity. And so I think dance is an incredible way to do that. There's cross cultural community amongst other people. You know, we don't have to have the, the language necessarily to speak. We don't have to have those things. When you have dance, it breaks down all of those barriers. And so my husband and I started our first missions chapter in Zimbabwe through a children's home called Kudavana. And the reason we started that is because we were looking for a way to tithe to, for the program. And the Lord quickly showed us that we, we needed to tithe the program, not just money. And so we found a way to do that. And we now have four locations in Zimbabwe and 14 in Kenya. And this is incredible. It's almost 1,000 kids that come together every single week and they get discipleship and dance lessons, but it's in their culture. So we might have ballet classes here in Littleton, Colorado, but then we're going to have African or Afrobeat classes in Kenya. We might have hip hop classes in Zimbabwe. And as long as we have that movement that is God honoring, we teach it in that way. We use Christ centered instruction to do so. It's a beautiful picture of unity across the world, using dance to raise the next generation of worshipers in spirit and in truth.

Dr. Jessica Peck: That is absolutely amazing.

Your ministry uses dance to attract and mentor m the youth

I'm sure that you probably have some wonderful stories to share of lives that have been transformed through this ministry. Is there maybe one that stands out that you'd like to share?

Heather Johnson: Yes, we have a regional director in Kamgoma and this is a, western part of Kenya and she helps to teach dance in that area. She's the director of the region. And we were doing. A year and a half ago, we were doing a country tour in Kenya. So we were going and doing community events. We would feed people, we would tell people, we'd share the gospel, we would share dance and how it could be redeemed, how it could be used to spread the gospel and discipleship, all of these people. And we had a small team of five Kenyans and myself coming across the country. Planes, trains and automobiles. And she got off the plane to one location and she had tears in her eyes. And I said, judy, what is it? And she said, you know, I live in a village. I was born in a village called Kamgoma, and in English that means small goat. She said, we would look up in the fields. And we would see the planes flying across overhead. And she said, we would make up stories about what those people might do that got them on the plane. And she said, I just finished my first plane ride ever. And it was through this ministry. It was bringing the gospel. It was working in his kingdom, using dance to attract and mentor m the youth. That's what put me on one of these planes. And she said, I'm just having a moment.

Dr. Jessica Peck: And you're having a moment right here, right now. I can see it. I can see the emotion in your face and just the overwhelming reward that God gives for stepping out in obedience. I'm sure that when you started this ministry, that is not a specific outcome that you saw, but God has led every step. What is your vision for your ministry? What do you hope to accomplish?

Heather Johnson: I hope it's my prayer that people see that dance can be redeemed, that there is a way to learn the art of dance in a God honoring and reverent way. I pray that the stigma in the US around dance comes down. I believe that those walls need to come down to make that more aware. I pray that people see that dance is a way that the youth are attracted to the gospel and that we have awareness and funding and we can continue to do the incredible work that we're doing.

Dr. Jessica Peck: What would you say to moms who are out there listening, dads, parents who think, okay, my child is in dance, is interested in dance? You've got my attention. I'm kind of thinking about this. I hadn't thought about a way that we could use dances as discipleship. There are parents who definitely have some concerns about dance and the way that's expressed and where are we going to put our boundaries and where will we engage and what will we do? But maybe there's parents who are just kind of at that, at that beginning phase. What advice would you give to them to learn more? Take a step further.

Heather Johnson: Yes. I would challenge them to talk to their studio owners, their dance program leaders. I would ask them three questions. How do you handle choreography? How do you handle music selection and costume selection? Are you making sure that these are safe areas for my child? And that is something that they can do in their current studio. They can look at, our website for locations to see if there's a location near them. And then we also offer missions opportunities. We're doing a big conference in June in Kenya, in Nairobi, and we'll do these frequently. And that's something that families can come along and it's a three day conference that we provide for our dancers in Kenya. They can see how Christ centered dance is performed. They can be a part of that. They can help lead and serve to put on the conference. There's leadership development skills that are taught. There's other, keynote speakers that come. It's an incredible, transformative weekend. but there are opportunities for even families and missions. If there are dancers and they're excited to use their skills for the kingdom, they can get in touch with us and we will put them in, an area to work.

Heather Johnson founded Redemptive Dance Ministries to equip families

Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, there may be some dance teachers, some studio owners even who are listening, who are thinking, yes, I'm trying to honor the Lord in this business that I have, in this ministry that I have and I want to know more about what you're doing. What would that look like?

Heather Johnson: Yes, please reach out. We have so many things that we're working on. We were a dance ministry and that's how we started for the last 12 years. And we have recently made a big shift. We went from a chapter management model to a chapter licensing model. And really what that means is that instead of doing the work ourselves from here on out, we're going to pour all of our time, energy and resources in equipping, building up and empowering the next generation of leaders so that they can raise these chapters in their own communities and be successful under the covering of us. We provide resources, materials, coaching, mentoring, prayer, and certainly advice on how to write, run a successful chapter.

Dr. Jessica Peck: And you mentioned going onto the website to find a. I'm sorry, what was the word that you used? What would that look like?

Heather Johnson: So coming onto the website, you could find courses and ways to get in contact with us. We'll start cohorts of leadership development classes. If, there's someone that wants to license a chapter, then they can find information out about that. If they're wanting training, maybe on Christ centered instruction would be happy to come out to their location. Say they run a studio in an area and they want to go through a full day or two of training in Christ centered instruction to make sure that their instructors, their directors, everyone understands exactly how that looks different from the world. We're happy to do that too.

Dr. Jessica Peck: And tell us what the website is and where to go.

Heather Johnson: Yes, it's Redemptive Dance Ministries. The URL is rdm.life And then you can get to connect. You can find out more about us if you'd like to, but definitely connect with us and we'll find the right place for you.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, Heather, thank you so much for the work that you're doing. Personally, I have sat through many, many a dance recital and I think this is something that really parents can struggle with today. And so I appreciate just your vision and your obedience and stepping out into the calling that God has given you to really equip families. And I thank you again for reminding us that dance can be an expression of worship and an extension of discipleship. And your work challenges us, to re examine that, to look at the ways that we can disciple hearts and minds and bodies for Christ. So again, for those of you who are wanting to know more about Heather's work or explore a biblical vision of embodied worship, I encourage you to connect with her ministry and continue continuing this conversation. This is really important. Tell us one more time that website

Heather Johnson: rdm.life it's Redemptive Dance Ministries and rdm.life

Dr. Jessica Peck: rdm.life Thank you so much for joining us. We are so appreciative of you listening in right here from the floor of the of the conference for the national religious broadcasters. Wherever you are, whatever you are doing, I pray that the Lord will bless you and keep you and move make his face to shine upon you. And we'll see you right back here next time. Thanks again.

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Jeff Chamblee: opinions expressed in this broadcast may not necessarily reflect those of the American Family association or American Family Radio.

Jessica talks with Todd Nettleton, host of Voice of the Martyrs Radio about speaking with children and grandchildren about processing the news of the day. She also talks with Heather Johnson of Redemptive Dance Ministries about dance training that goes beyond technique and helps students grow in relationship with the Lord.

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