Transcript

American Family Radio thanks sponsor Preborn for supporting pro life initiatives

Dr. Jessica Peck: We would like to take a moment to thank our sponsor, PreBorn. When a mother meets her baby on ultrasound and hears their heartbeat, it's a divine connection. And the majority of the time she will choose life. But they can't do it without our help. Preborn needs us, the pro life community, to come alongside them. One ultrasound is just $28. To donate, dial pound 250 and say the keyword BABY or visit preborn.com/AFR hello

Dr. Jessica Peck: and welcome to the Dr. Nurse Mama show, prescribing hope for healthy families here on American Family Radio. Here's your host, professor, pediatric nurse practitioner and mom of four, Dr. Jessica Peck.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, hey there, friends, and welcome to my favorite time of day.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Hey.

Dr. Jessica Peck: We get to spend some time together and we get to find hope for healthy families. And that's what we're going to do today.

Parents need to be more proactive in helping their children form worldviews

Now, if you are a regular listener, you, you know, I have been talking quite a bit about theology and worldview formation in today's world. We have got to be more proactive because there are more forces than ever now that are seeking to get our kids attention, that are seeking to mold the worldview that they have. And we are raising children in a time where they have exposures to things, to worldly concepts, to, to worldly theologies, to trials, to traumas, to tragedies that are earlier than ever. And while as parents we wish this was not so, it is so. It is the reality that they face. And we see kids who have questions about their identity and questions about truth and questions about God. And whether we realize it or not, our children right from the very early stages of toddlerhood, that late stages of infancy, and even before that, they are forming beliefs before they can even fully form sentences. And culture is telling us just wait and kids will figure it out later. We'll let them figure out their own beliefs and let them decide what they want to believe or to avoid heavy topics like just protect them as much as possible and keep them in that bubble. But Scripture paints a very different picture. It shows us that the hearts and minds of children are not empty slates to be be written on. They are ready to receive the truth of God. They are ready to ask questions. They are ready to know God in a personal way. And today's guest believes that theology doesn't start in seminary. It starts in the nursery. We have author, editor and mom, Lauren Groves here today, and I'm so excited to talk with her. She serves as the kids acquisitions editor at BH Publishing Group, which is an imprint of lifeway Christian Resources. She's a kids ministry coordinator at her local church in Nashville and is passionate, just like I am, in helping kids to know God without needing a degree in theology or a decades long church background. This is for everybody. And we are talking about some beautiful question and answer board books that are designed to help parents introduce even the youngest children to foundational truths about God. And we will talk about why early discipleship matters more today than ever before and how to answer big theological questions in simple ways and how parents can confidently lead their children spiritually. Even if you don't feel like you are a resident theologian yourself.

Lauren is a kids acquisitions editor at B & H Publishing Group

Lauren, welcome to the show. We're so glad to have you here.

Lauren Groves: Thank you so much for having me.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, I would love to know just a little bit about your personal background. Just introduce yourself to our listeners, tell them about you, how you came to know the Lord and how he's given you a heart for this early theater.

Lauren Groves: Well, I'm Lauren. I am a, kids acquisitions editor at A B H Publishing Group. And before that I was a mom. I had my first daughter seven years ago almost and so I'm just kind of a third of the way into my parenting journey for her. I have two other kids, Ivy, and Ezra. Ezra just turned five and Ivy is almost one. And I wanted to get into this role and get into kids books because I saw what a difference they made in my own kids lives and because of the difference that they have made in my life. I grew up in a Christian home and in church and was just absolutely inundated with material all around me that was shaping of my worldview and that was such a gift to me. It's started me from a young age thinking about God in big and small ways and making me feel like I was capable of understanding him in the way that I could as far as my development went. And that was a huge gift to me. And it's such a blessing to be able to help create some of those resources for kids and, and especially my kids. It's really sweet experience.

Dr. Jessica Peck: That is really. I love those early tender moments of just sharing stories like that and these books that you've written

Lauren's daughter Eden got really into catechism questions when she was 2

Tell us about these specific books. And it was inspired by your daughter actually at a really young age. Tell us about the moment that it was inspired.

Lauren Groves: Yes. So my daughter Eden, when she was about 2, got really into catechism questions. It actually started on a soundtrack that she was listening to. She was listening to Shailene's Jesus Kids album and her favorite Song was Catechism Interlude 1, which sounds like that wouldn't be a two year old's favorite song, but it really was. And she was answering questions about God with the songs as a two year old, spouting off that God is Father, Son and Holy Spirit, and using words like Trinity and things that we had been, we had been saying to her, but she was actually gaining language for. And so we really loved that. And we started playing catechism songs in our life, both Shylin songs. And then we used the New City Catechism as well. But one thing that I could not find something of, that I really wanted was something that paired catechism questions with illustration so that we could implement this into our bookshelf as well. So that was kind of the idea that I had. About a year later I started working at B and H Kids. And so that was the idea that I brought, or one of the ideas that I brought where I said, I think that there's really a place to create solid catechism questions and to make the illustrations that go along with them just really glow off of the page so that kids want to pick up the books and read them over and over again. That was kind of how that started. And over the next handful of years, we just released about two books a year. And so now we have the full set. It's six books that each tackle different kind of categories of, learning and specifically learning about God.

What encouragement would you give about starting those spiritual concepts early and recognizing toddlers

Dr. Jessica Peck: What surprises you most when you think about toddlers? Who are. What are they capable of understanding? You know, I think of what I know from a pediatric developmental perspective, but from a theology perspective, I think, you know, most parents aren't thinking, okay, let's pick up some books and talk about theology often. Because that's something that's really intimidating for us. If we don't have, like, I don't have a background in seminary or theology. We think like, oh, can we take on that mantle? Even though we intuitively know that we are the primary disciplers of our. Really hard to make that connections. What encouragement would you give about starting those spiritual concepts early and recognizing that toddlers really are capable of understanding some fundamental theological truths?

Lauren Groves: Well, I would first go to Scripture, where Jesus is interacting with all of these adults and kids come up to him and they're just like, his disciples say, stop, the kids can't come. And Jesus actually corrects them and reminds them that we should all be trying to have the faith of a child. Kids have the ability to take things and to believe them. So I actually think Sometimes my kids better understand the Trinity than I do because they just take it at face value and believe it. And I'm have all of this, just trying to rip it apart in my mind that I do naturally. And so I think that really leaning on and trusting that Jesus knew what he was talking about whenever he started, spoke of the faith of a child and believing him, believing that. And like you said, it can be a little bit intimidating whenever I feel like I don't know how to explain the Trinity to an adult. So how could I possibly explain it to a child? I would say that we don't have to always explain everything. A lot of times kids, which you probably know more about this than I do. But kids ask questions that they're ready for. And so when we give them information at, face value, we can continue to let them ask questions and answer them as best we can, or we can just let it sit and ask the Holy Spirit to do that work in their heart, go along with them, but at the end of the day, really just allowing them to believe and ingest the things that we are giving them. The other thing about memorization for a kid is that we, ah, all of our kids, if you're a parent, you know that your child can probably sing every single song on some Disney soundtrack. Kids are really great at memorizing it, how they learn. And so whenever we give them, for example, catechism questions or really any kind of facts just to memorize, it actually sets the foundation and gives them language for a faith that they will continue to dive into as they grow and develop.

Dr. Jessica Peck: I'm so glad that you brought that up about the Holy Spirit, because I think sometimes parents forget that, that we have a counselor and we can pray and ask the Holy Spirit to help our kids to understand of those complex truths. And it's perfectly fine for us to model that we don't have all of the answers. I heard a quote so long ago, Lauren, that I'd hold onto a lot that said, if God was small enough to be understood, he wouldn't be big enough to be worshiped. And so there's some things that we don't understand. We don't worship a small God who fits neatly inside of a box with all of the answers already there. We don't understand that. And actually you may. You reminded me of an article that I just wrote for the Stand magazine, which is the publication from American Family association that you could subscribe to, by the way, if you're listening to, but I wrote about Easter Eggs and because we've just, you know, recently had Easter. And as I was thinking about that and thinking about this cultural concept of Easter eggs, like these hidden cameos in movies or hidden, you know, little codes that are in movies or features that are in video games or Internet searches or little jokes that are hidden in computer code, all of these things. And I really was struck by the difference in what culture says about Easter eggs, about that truth, truths, that are to be sought after and what scripture says. And, and this was part of the contrast that I said that culture says the most important truths are hidden and truth has to be decoded and the meaning interpreted. Whereas scripture says in Romans 1:19, for what can be known about God is plain to them because God has shown it to them. And we see culture saying truth is a hidden treasure that belongs to only to the most deserving seekers. But Jesus said, I praise you Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that you have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to infants. Culture says that secrecy is prized through hidden symbols or obscure references or ambiguous interpretations. While Jesus said, I have always taught in the synagogues, in the temple, I spoke nothing in secret. And I think these are really important contrasts even when we're looking at truth because we see this cultural shift to say that truth is mysterious and it is, you know, rewarded only to the most dedicated seeker when really those truths are, are very evident. How do we really embed those into the hearts of our children and tell them that yes, there are some things that we don't understand, but there is so much about God that is made plain. We just heard in the scripture that he makes it plain to infants.

Lauren Groves: That's right he does and we can believe him that he does. I think the biggest thing is just incorporating the teaching of cruise about God into our daily rhythms. Which is one of the reasons that I wanted to create books because that was so much part of my family's daily rhythm. And then it goes beyond books too. It's reading the Bible in front of them, showing our kids that we're still learning, that I, I haven't arrived to some extra special place where I just understand everything about God. I'm still actively seeking to learn, being invested in my local church and letting other voices speak into my kids lives, having Sunday school teachers who are interested in, in teaching them. I think it's just so important to foster an environment of learning where we're asking questions, where we're okay with saying hey, I don't really know the answer to that question. But you know what? I can, we can go to Scripture together and uncover it. I think just kind of taking the cloak of needing to be the smartest one in the room off, and getting on the level with our kids and saying, hey, we're going to learn this together. If I don't fully understand it, and for the things that I do understand a little bit more than them, I'm going to answer those questions with a lot of humility.

Dr. Jessica Peck: That's a really good word of advice.

Sometimes when kids ask questions, our knee jerk reaction is fear

I think sometimes when kids ask us questions that we don't know the answer to and they ask us questions that are evident that they're maybe wrestling with a spiritual concept, they're wrestling with a theological truth, they're wrestling with the presence of God in their life. And what does that mean? So often our knee jerk reaction is fear. Because as believers, a lot of fear that parents have, that Christian parents have, is that their children will walk away from their faith. And we see these questions as evidence of, like you said, like some sort of I have to perform in this moment, like the, I am holding this and if I don't answer this question correctly, maybe I'm going to damage their faith and they're going to walk away from it. And we just have this runaway train, I think that starts to, to just run in our head and we start to have just this spirit of fear which we know that God has not given us a spirit of fear, but a power and love and a sense sound mind. And I think being confident in what we know while also being confident in what we don't know and engaging in a community of believers and having those theologians who are at church, who are our spiritual leaders who can help us wrestle with those issues and knowing that asking questions, like you said, is how they learn. That's why they ask, why is the sky blue? Why is the grass green? And they ask us questions so that we can reinforce those truths in their heart. Listen. We will be right back with more from Lauren Groves and we will be talking about her the Toddler Theology board book series that equips parents to teach biblical truths even from a young age. We'll be right back.

Preborn empowers women to become mothers through an ultrasound

Mother's Day. It's one of the most beautiful moments of the year to share life changing news. Maybe you've seen it, a family gathered around the table. When someone stands up and says, next year there will be a brand new mom in our family, there's nothing like it. But for some women, Mother's Day feels very different. Instead of celebrating, they're carrying a secret. Afraid. Unsure. Alone. That's why preborn exists. Because when a woman sees her baby on an ultrasound and hears that tiny heartbeat, it doubles the chance she'll choose life. I couldn't imagine my life without him because of them. He's here. We're gonna get through it, and it's gonna be okay.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Preborn empowers women to become mothers. Just $28 provides one ultrasound. To donate, dial pound 250 and say the keyword baby. That's pound 250, baby or donate securely at preborn.com/AFR, afr that's preborn.com/AFR. Nobody loves

Nobody Loves Me Like You by Chris Tomlin: me like you love me Jesus, I stand in all your amazing m way I worship you as long as I am breathing God, you faithful and true Nobody loves me like you welcome back,

Dr. Jessica Peck: friends, that is Nobody loves you Nobody loves me like you By Chris Tomlin and this is such an important foundational truth that we need to be starting to teach our children from the womb that nobody loves them like God can, that God made them uniquely, on purpose, by purpose, for a purpose, and that these are truths that we need to talk. And that's what we're talking about today, is toddler theology. We're talking to author Lauren Groves, and we're talking about her toddler theology board book series that equips parents to teach biblical truth. I'm looking at copies of this book talking about where is church? When is eternity? Who is God? Why do we pray? How big is grace? These are pretty complex concepts that even as adults we are wrestling with. But we know that we can start to teach kids from a very early age. It is an important realization to have that we are not waiting to start discipling our kids when they get to school age, when they start wrestling with things as teenagers. Already, culture is discipling our children, and we need to be the trusted voice of experience right there. It's already happening. And the question for us today is, are you being intentional with these moments? Are you just letting these teachable moments pass by? So, Lauren, it is so important for us to help toddlers to process foundational truths in a culture that's full of competing messages. And as I said, your books center around some pretty simple but very profound questions. Why is that question and answer format so effective for young children and and simple, small questions to talk about complex, big topics?

Lauren Groves: That's a great question. I was just thinking about some of the questions that you've been asking me before and realized that I don't know that I've defined what a catechism is, which I don't know that I would have known until kind of recently. So catechism would be a question and then an answer that's meant to memorize. And we have, there are lots of different catechisms that the church has used historically. And then there are catechisms that have been written more recently, things that would be a lot lengthier that you or I might be memorizing, and then catechisms that have been written for young children so that it's a little bit easier for them to memorize. And the thing that is great about anything that is meant for memory is that kids brains are just little memory suckers. They have so much to learn and they're able to memorize in a way that we just most aren't. They have a really active hippocampus, I believe is how you would say it, which is the brain's region for crucial memory. and so using questions that are really simple to introduce concepts is actually developmentally really appropriate for them. And you were just talking about culture. Culture is using that kind of science with the things that they are feeding to our children. It's why short term, short form videos are so popular, especially among kids, because they can just go, go, go, go, go and suck in tons of information really fast. And so we have, what we've done with the toddler theology books is we have taken a look at all of these concepts about God and specifically concepts about God that have been traditionally learned through catechism throughout church history and said, what is the most important and what is the simplest way we can do it? From the question who has always existed? God. So the child just has to memorize one thing, but they're learning in that who has always existed? God has always existed. This is so important. And again, if the culture is going to be feeding our kids things that easy for them to memorize, then we should absolutely be doing the same thing with the foundational knowledge that we want our kids to, to know.

Dr. Jessica Peck: That is, it's really encouraging because I think it's overwhelming when we look at culture. And you're so right, Lauren, because I remember being at a conference not too long ago and there was a movie, creator from Pixar and he was talking about to, he was talking to the group about how movie companies are very aware of the emotional arc of a story. And I'm not talking about just like, you know, okay, there's a conflict and then a resolution and you Know all of those kinds of things, like just the basic art of storytelling. I'm talking about the complex overlay of what they want. What's the ideal formula for dopamine secretion for, you know, fear from emotions and neurotransmitters that are happening. And they're talking about the science of scientists being able to pin that perfect combination of neurotransmitters and that neurological, very chemical kind of journey that tells a good story. And, and there are very, very gifted, smart people who are overlying this in the story industry and seeing what tells, what tells good stories. And they can map that back to movies that are the biggest hits because they resonate emotionally. And it's important for us to recognize that God did create us in that way. You talked about the hippocampus. One of the things that parents should know about brain development for children is that their amygdala, which is the kind of emotion and fear center of the brain that develops way before the prefrontal cortex. It's kind of like, one scientist describes it as the upstairs and the downstairs of the brain. And the downstairs is that amygdala, that fear based center. And the prefrontal cortex is like higher level systems thinking, executive function, decision making that takes a lot longer to, to, to be developed. And so when we think about this, we can think, yes, God has given this to us as parents as a beautiful learning. And so when we teach children these foundational truths, when we give them reassurance that yes, the world is broken or the world can be scary, but God is bigger than that, God is your protector. And some of those, you know, foundational spiritual truths, we're helping them to feel that emotion of being grounded, of being reassured, of being comforted, of being confident that's going to help override that fear emotion that then will help them as they're walking upstairs, metaphorically speaking, in their brain, to make some of those decisions, they use some of those foundational truths and those emotions that they've learned to then later drive their decision making. And as parents, sometimes we want that decision making to come first. We want that cognitive maturity to be there because it's so hard. And we know this because the line that was passed down to us in every generational parenting book, when children make a mistake, what's the one question that every parent asks? What were you thinking? And the truth is their brain wasn't thinking at a very mature level. So that's why I think it's really important to give some of these foundational comforts and truths and, and maybe they're not very complex. We're giving them in very simple ways. Because you're talking about these board books. Lauren, at being ages 0 to 4, when we ground kids and their identity and their purpose earlier than ever, even giving them these messages, where culture is giving them these messages at age 0 to 4, how do you see that changing the trajectory of their spiritual journey?

Lauren Groves: I mean, I think that it just starts with giving them a foundation and a framework to then continue to learn within. So I homeschool my kids and we are learning really basic and foundational concepts about reading and about colors with my little 5 year old. And so he has, you know, the colors that he's learning, but eventually he's going to learn how to mix those colors and that two colors together make a different color and about shading and about all kinds of things that right now what we're doing is we are just setting the foundational. Hey, we can, we can name these basic colors and then later we're going to move something a little bit deeper. And I think the same thing goes with theology. We're going to give them basic framework, we're going to give them language so that whenever they start to ask questions in themselves, they already have a starting point. I understand or I know that God is three gods in one, but what does that really mean? And that's going to come later as they continue to develop. So I know that God calls people to gather at church, but why? So we're getting language into their minds so that we have the ability to really ask those further questions within the framework that we have already built in our basic toddler level theology.

You write about teaching basic theological truths to toddlers through six books

Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, let's talk about some of that basic toddler level theology. As I said, I read some of the, the names of your books. You know, who is God? Why do we pray? How big is grace? Walk us through some of these. Specifically, can you give us a specific example of what this looks like to communicate these theological truths to a toddler?

Lauren Groves: Yeah, absolutely. So we split the books up, like I said, into six different kinds of topics. So the first one is God. And that was intentional. We want kids to first just learn about God in the big concept that he loves us, that he is all knowing that he is, that before he did anything, he loved because he was Father, Son and Spirit. And so they loved each other before we were even created. So teaching my toddlers has really just looked like sitting down and asking those questions, having them answer them, trying to, trying to get that into our rhythm and then continuing to ask questions about that throughout the day. Another book that we have is what's the Good News? So like you said, we just had Easter. This was a great book that we tend to pull out kind of leading up to Easter, because what's the good news is all about the gospel. So it's the gospel story. And the reason that we wanted to do this, rather than putting everything in one book, is because it kind of splits it up into little categories that you can really dive into with your kids. And then my hope and my prayer is that when parents are reading through these questions and when they get to a question that they're like, okay, I get that this is the basic answer, but what does this really mean? That they would go forth and that they would go into their Bibles and they would ask that question in a way that they can, they can answer in an even deeper way than the handful of words that we wrote in order for a toddler to memorize, but that it would actually help parents really dive in as well. So that's why we created six different books because we wanted it to be pretty bite sized. We wanted families to not feel super overwhelmed by 60ish questions all at once, but be able to really tackle it just a few at a time and in a topic that they could really kind of dive into with their child.

Dr. Jessica Peck: You know, as you're talking about questions and catechism and, and timeless truths, I can't help but think back to a question that Satan asked Eve in Genesis and, and he talked to her using questions that did God really say and there. That you couldn't eat, you know, from this, from this tree. And I think about the questions that culture is asking our kids today in a very subtle kind of way, in a way that I think it's harder now than ever for kids to differentiate that. You know, not too long ago, my kids are all in that launching stage. I'm on the, I'm, in the, on the horizon of empty nest parenting here. But even my kids were telling me the other day, you know, mom, I used to be able. When AI first came out, I could tell exactly what was AI. I knew it. And you know, they would help their grandparents navigate that, right? Like this is AI. Like that. That is there. But they said that that line is increasingly hard to tell. It's really hard to tell what's real and what's not. And I see that not just in AI, but in the messages, the questions that culture is asking. And for you, Lauren, As a mom, as someone who is an acquisitions editor. So that means, you know, you're looking at a lot of books and a lot of messaging that authors are trying to sell. What messages do you see culture asking our kids today, even starting at this early toddler age, that we should be aware of and on guard against?

Lauren Groves: That's a great question. And something definitely that I think about a lot of. One of the things that we're seeing is that we have to be so busy that we run, run, run ourselves into the ground. I think that's one thing that we're not actively learning to rest in the Lord. Something that we're talking about a lot in the children's book space, especially because kids, are, are being told that they have to have a million different things to start building this resume for when they're 18 years old. But that starts in elementary school, getting, making a child well rounded. So that's, that is one thing that I'm seeing that we are trying to kind of push against. I think, of course, of course we have the experience of what we're teaching our kids about their bodies, about whose their bodies are. and I think that that's something that we also want to remind kids that, that they are the Lord's, that they are gods, and that he has given us, framework to work within on how we should use our bodies. And that starts. That conversation goes much farther the older kids get, but actually it's kind of creeping younger and younger and younger what kids are being shared with and what, what they are being told. And so again in this kind of foundational level, just knowing that God, God created me, I am not my own God created me. That is so important. of course, things about identity. I get to choose to be whoever I want to be rather than who God created me to be. That there's real beauty in God creating us each individually and also to glorify Him. And that's something that, that has been really a big message that has started whenever I was a kid and I'm sure long before that, that has just grown and grown and grown. And now I'm really having to, as, as we're pulling books into our house, really watch for that kind of messaging and, and protect our kids against it. I could probably go on and on about that, but those are just some of the first ones that are at the top of my mind.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, I'm going to ask you to go on and on and on about it when we come back after the break because I think this is something parents need to be aware of because the messaging machine from culture to our children is just working on overdrive. And it's, it's, it's fast. But we need to not be afraid because God has not given us a spirit of fear. And I think back to even those the question that Satan asked Eve and it was such a, just a slight distortion, just enough to plant a little bit of doubt. It wasn't an out and out confrontation. And that is an age old tactic that we are seeing now. And I think that should be reassuring to parents because so often in today's world we think, oh, kids are facing things today that they have never faced before. And we are facing challenges today as parents that we have never faced before. And it may be true that the cultural context, that the delivery mode of those challenges has changed with technology, but the timeless truths, the timeless concepts that are beneath those things are just as old as Satan and the Garden of Eden and deceiving Eve and right at the, the fall of humanity. And those things have not changed. There is still subtle and outright deception that is there. And God has raised us and given us for such, a, given our children to raise, given us, our children to raise for such a time as this. And we don't need to live in fear, but we do need to be proactive in making sure that our kids are so grounded in those theological truths and we need to make sure we're doing it early, earlier. We'll be back with more on Toddler Theology with Lauren Groves. Don't go away. We'll be right back.

From the very start, these books had a level of authority

Dr. Michael Kruger: Here's Dr. Michael  Kruger from the American Family Studios documentary the God who Speaks. From the very start, it seems that these books had a level of authority. And a good example of this is Paul's own letter. Letters. When Paul wrote, he wrote with the authority of an apostle. An authority of an apostle is one who speaks for Jesus. And so he spoke in his writings with the highest possible authority you could speak with. He was speaking, in one sense, the words of God to people, and people received it as such. They were to obey Paul's letters. They were to follow Paul's letters as the words of Christ. They were to read Paul's letters publicly. So the idea that these books started off just as occasional, letters or historical documents, and only slowly, gradually, over time, did they gain authority of scripture. I don't think is borne out by the historical evidence. The evidence indicates that the authors knew they were writing scripture and the early church received the description from a Very early time. Visit thegodwhospeaks.org.

Oh But God by Davy Flowers: And I traded my chains for your freedom Cuz you were the one that I needed oh but God resurrected my heart from the R and my rescue came through like the morning and now this is my true testimony oh my God. Oh my God. Rich in mercy how you love me too much to let me stay long.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Welcome back, friends. That is oh, but God by Davy Flowers. And as I often say, my two favorite words together in the history of ever. Thank the Lord that we have the phrase but God. Because when we look at today's world, it can be really overwhelming, especially for parents, for grandparents, for any adults who are worried about the future of today's children of Gen Z, Gen Alpha, and the generation yet unnamed probably going to be Generation Beta being born right now. When I think about Generation Beta, I think about beta testing and that is what is happening in our culture right now. We are having a period of beta testing of AI experimental technology that is actively shaping the minds and the worldview of children, starting early, early even before they're born. Because we're talking about cultural messaging, interacting with and influencing parents. And even from a very early age, how these marketing forces of AI are seeking our children as products to consume as consumers and to be consumed. They're selling their time and their attention and trying to get them on digital platforms with messaging that can be counter to the gospel.

Lauren Groves is author of six board books called Toddler Theology

That's why we're talking to Lauren Groves today, who is author of a series of six board books called Toddler Theology. Now, these are books that are asking foundational questions like where is church? When is eternity? Who is God? Why do we pray? How big is grace? And Lauren has, in a very easy to understand way, explained the concept of catechism and explained the power of questions and answering. And before the break, she was answering my question about what she sees as an acquisitions editor. She is in this children's editing space. She's in the business space where the business is talking about how do we, from a faith based perspective, how do we equip families to strengthen their faith, but from a business perspective in a secular way, there are competing messages. And Lauren, I want to give you the opportunity. You said you could go on and on and on about it. I'd like for you to go on a little bit more and give us a little bit more of a glimpse into your professional world and what you're seeing, what we can be aware of, the messages you talked about, messages of identity and body image. Of course, I Think identity is huge. What other messages are you seeing in culture? And how can these simple theological truths help to hide God's word in their heart and to solidify their faith that will last?

Lauren Groves: That's a great question. One of the things that I was doing thinking about over the break was, you know, the overarching message that I'm actually seeing in so many kids books out there, no matter really what they're about, is that you are the only one that you need. And this, I think, is detrimental to our, kids, and it's detrimental to our culture, especially like you were talking about with AI. We've got people who are making friends or what, what they might define as friends with AI or forming actual relationships, which just further pushes us into this very individualistic kind of mentality of I don't need anybody else. And that can start what feels like really simple and harmless of, you are, you are everything. And, and we want to say that to our kids because we feel that way, like you are the most important and most special person in the world to me. And of course our children are the most special people in the world. God put that in our hearts so that we would love them and protect them and nurture them. And also I think that we can take that message and we can communicate to kids that they don't need anyone besides themselves because they are the most amazing thing that was to ever exist. And what God actually told us is that we do need others in our lives. In fact, we need God and we need neighbor. Those are the two greatest commandments. Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength. And the second is like it, love your neighbor as yourself. And whenever we are constantly sending out this idea that, a child is individually everything that they need to be, then we neglect the fact that kids do need God, people need God, and that God has given us our neighbor to love one another well and point us back to Him. And that is those are the things that. Throughout the books, I really did want to incorporate a lot of messaging about who God is and who kids are in relation to God. Because every. What we are is only because of who God is, because we are created to image him and then also that we are not meant to do this world or to do this life by ourselves. We are not meant to do it behind a screen constantly. We are meant to be in relationship and connecting with other people, which is why the local church is still important. Such a, a gift that God gave us, from the, the time that Jesus went back to sit at the right hand of God the Father. He then initiated his church. And so we get to live in relationship with other people. And where we fall short, God, one, we don't have to be condemned because of that. But two, God has provided us other people to come alongside us and to walk with us, us and to help us and to point us back to him who is the most important. So I would say that that is something that I'm seeing it in almost every book that comes its way into our house, is that you are all you need, you are incredible and you are perfect. And what that I think does subconsciously is just draws kids more and more, siloing them into themselves rather than encouraging them to, to be in community with God first and with people close second.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, Lauren, I want you to, I want to invite you to join me in a little bit of a courageous conversation. And let's step on some toes here and venture into a little area that is going to be a little too close to home for all of us. I'm going to invite you to join me here because I look at, you know, the generations of parenting and I believe there's always a pendulum swinging, you know, trying to overcorrect. And when we look at past generations of parenting, we had the greatest generation and then we had the silent generation. Children raised to be seen and not heard. Where children were really, not as seen, not as prominent in society. They sat at the children's table, right? And now we have what you're talking about, this pendulum swing to. You are the most special wonderful person in the whole world. And here's where I'm going to get a little uncomfortable. I really see an emergence and I, and I feel that pull myself to have an idolatry of our children, where we put our children on a pedestal where they are the products that we are producing rather than the people we are nurturing. And we see child centered marriages where you know, we neglect, our marriage, but the, the focus is on the children. Everything's got to be about the children. And we see all of the investment that we make in their academic success and their athletic success. And meanwhile as believing families as Christians, we would say, oh, we, we want to invest in our kids spiritual formation more than anything. But our calendars and our credit cards are really bold accountability partners. And I see this, this really temptation to, to go along with that and do it in a way that the message that you are all you need, you are the center of the universe and we're doing it from kind of a well intentioned place. But Lauren, I look back at your theology books and talking about those, those truths that it's not about who they are, it's about who God is and who God made them to be. And I think that the answer to that, that pendulum correction is to focus our attention on God and who he is and what he has done and how big he is and the theological truths there. Do you see this? Do you feel this? What, what words of encouragement would you speak into that temptation for us to idolize our children in a way that seems culturally palatable?

Lauren Groves: Of course. I feel that temptation to my core every single day of my life. I have these little kids right now who are dependent on me for so much growing out of that. But I've got a 10 month old who is still pretty dependent on me. And especially I also have Instagram on my phone and I have all of these, the, the Internet that is showing me the most perfect version of the perfect with quotations around it, version of whatever kind of parenthood I, I'm seeing. And so I want to be able to, in my heart and in my flesh, I want to be able to see, stand up and to stand beside the Instagram videos that go viral of some beautiful, morning routine or whatever it is. And so that, that is currently where I'm at, where I'm taking. It's easy for me to put my motherhood on this pedestal and then going into it, I've got a daughter who is starting to do activities outside of just typical school. And so I can feel the bubbling up in me of of pride for my child whenever she does well. But also is it really pride in myself? Am I really feeling whenever I say I'm proud of you? How much of that is actually, I'm proud of me. I'm proud of me for what I have done. I'm proud of me for being better than maybe I was treated as a child. I'm proud of me. And that is something that I have had to really ask myself. And I think that it's something that we could very much all stand to ask ourselves is what is how much of our putting our kids on a pedestal is actually our own pride and our own lives of wanting to do whatever it is. And so many of those motivations can come from a great place. They can come from a place that is glorifying to God. But what Satan does, as you, as you said earlier, is he takes this good thing and he twists It. And he asks us if we, if God really said that, you got to really say that you shouldn't prioritize your child. And instead of your husband, would God really say that? Would he really want that? I mean, your husband doesn't need anything from you, but your child does. And we take these little messages that are rooted in maybe things that are true, and then we turn them on their heads and just let it get out, of control. And like I said, I am the one who feels the most tempted to do that every day. And it is a fight to go against what the culture is saying to do. It is a daily fight and it's not one that I always win. And I think that that's something that we can say is if, if today you are listening to this and feel like, oh, that is not a battle that I have won, then guess what? There is grace and there is good news in the fact that, fact that you are not condemned by any parenting choice that you have made. And through the Holy Spirit, God has given you the ability to go forth and to, and to do something different and to pursue him and his design and the way that you are parenting your child. and that's just beautiful. And I'm so grateful for God's grace because I need it desperately.

Lauren Groves' home toddler theology series is beautiful and inspiring

Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, Lauren, I gave you an invitation and I feel like you just took a wildly courageous leap of faith. You just, you took that invitation and I am very grateful and very overwhelmed because I think you just opened your heart and exposed the hearts of so many other people who are listening who are thinking, yeah, that's my struggle. Because I think especially we might even struggle with this more in faith based communities and Christian communities because we see that our kids behavior, we use that as a marker as evidence of the effectiveness of our discipleship. If our kids are doing the right thing, if they're giving the right answer, if everything looks perfect just like you said, then that must mean that we are imparting biblical truth. And aren't we such great strong Christian parents? And you said that so beautifully and vulnerably and authentically. And I think that's something that we really need to take a good hard look at ourselves. Because our kids are imperfect. And newsflash, their parents are imperfect. Imperfect. We are imperfect. We cannot put that burden on our kids to make it their job to validate our parenting for the world. They're going to make mistakes. Ah, just like we make mistakes. And I think it's a good reality check for us to look and to see okay. When we are focusing so much on our children and, and how they look. And again, we kind of twist it, don't we? Like, yes, of course God gave you your children. They're supposed to be the most important thing. But when we really start crossing that line into idolizing them, that is tough. And that's why I think what you're doing, Lauren, is so beautiful in moving families back to those basic questions. Not who, who are you going to be? What is your dream Is who is God? Why do we pray? How big is grace? When is eternity? Where is church? All of these are beautiful truths. And Lauren, I've had such a great time talking with you today. Tell us again where we can find the books. And these would be great gifts for your kids or your grandkids. Where can we find them?

Lauren Groves: That's great. You can find them anywhere. Books are sold on Amazon, on lifeway.com, Barnes and Noble, pretty much anywhere where you can find books. And the website link, link is toddlertheologybooks.com and that's where you can go to retailers and just find them wherever you want to go.

Dr. Jessica Peck: toddlertheologybooks.com I would challenge every children's minister, children's director, anybody working in kids ministry. These would be great books to have in your church, have in the, in those toddler classrooms and have those, volunteers who are working with kids to really read to them. And of course, parents reading to your kids, grandparents reading to your grandkids. Absolutely beautiful. Lauren. Thank you so much for all that you are doing to equip families for every good work. I am really encouraged by that. And we know that these books can help give a foundation of truth, a language for faith, and a confidence that their questions, no matter how big they are, have answers in a God who cares enough to reveal himself to us. So again, if you want to begin those conversations in your home toddler theology series by Lauren Grove, I pray that the Lord will bless you and keep you and make his face shine upon you as you plant seeds of truth in these early years that bear fruit for a lifetime.

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Jeff Chamblee: opinions expressed in this broadcast may not necessarily reflect those of the American Family association or American Family Radio.