Hamilton: It should be uncomfortable for a believer to live as a hypocrite
>> Joseph Parker: Darkness is not an affirmative force. It simply reoccupies the space vacated by the light.
>> Abraham Hamilton III: This is the, Hamilton Corner on American Family Radio.
>> Joseph Parker: It should be uncomfortable for a believer to live as a hypocrite, delivering people
>> Abraham Hamilton III: out of the bondage of mainstream media and the philosophies of this world.
>> Joseph Parker: God has called you and me to be his ambassadors. Even in this dark moment. Let's not miss our moment.
>> Abraham Hamilton III: And now, the, Hamilton Corner.
Jenna Ellis filling in for Abraham Hamilton III this evening
>> Jenna Ellis: Good evening and welcome to the Hamilton Corner. I'm Jenna Ellis filling in for Abraham Hamilton III this evening. And such a privilege always to join you at opportunities where he needs a guest host. And, it's. It's great to wrap up the evening instead of my usual spot, which is the first live show of the morning on afr. So, it's great to kind of bookend this evening. And, you know, I just have to say that Abe is such a wonderful host and has become m a very de friend everyone at American Family Radio, American Family Association. I have so appreciated, their ministry, Christian fellowship and friendship. And it is such a blessing to be part of this ministry. And so for those who maybe don't listen in the morning, typically my show, Jenna Ellis in the morning, we cover a, news of the day of, that's politics, culture, theology, and everything to do with, with the three institutions that God has ordained. The church government, the family government, and the civil government. And most often a lot of the headlines fall into the civil government realm. And, what God has given in terms of legitimate, specific, limited authority to the civil government so that we can promote good and restrain evil in civil society. And we're going to start with that and then kind of work our way, through this program into some aspects of church and family as well. with a very special guest coming up in the next segment.
Christian leaders should wield government power benevolently, according to biblical worldview
but first I want to start with the civil government. And, of course, we are in the midst of primary season, and this is the opportunity here in America, to select and prefer our leaders. And as our founders recognized, when we select and prefer Christians, then we live in a system of government where our leaders, wield the powers of government benevolent, benevolently, if I can say that word, on this evening. And I do have coffee, by the way, because I have coffee in the mornings too. But the civil government will wield that benevolently and will do that in a way that is in accordance with the principles of the biblical worldview. By contrast, if we select and prefer evil leaders, then we'll See, like what happened to the nation of Israel in the Old Testament, that when they had wicked kings and wicked rulers, the people groaned and suffered under the weight of that pain. because even in a constitutional republic like we still have in the United States, our government leaders on both the state and federal level have a lot that they, that they can permit or prohibit, and a lot that will necessarily impact our daily lives and will necessarily impact the church and the family governments. And so civil government was designed, by God, and we see that in Scripture that he established the nations and the boundaries of the nations, and he established a civil government as a way to enforce morality and his truth in society. Now, this isn't forcing salvation. It's not forcing what the church provides, which is a substantive and, deep relationship with the Lord and understanding of theology, a teaching of Scripture, membership in a local church. That's not what the civil government provides. And so when Thomas Jefferson wrote, that letter to the Danbury Baptist and talking about a separation of church and state, it wasn't suggesting that the state is in any way secular or devoid of moral principles. It was simply recognizing that the state is a different jurisdiction, it's a different institution. The state does not compel you or I to believe in the Lord as our Savior, doesn't compel us to go to church, doesn't compel us on how, we need to choose to raise our kids in the fear and admonition of the Lord. it doesn't prescribe parenting, rules of your household. But the state does prescribe and also prohibit certain activities in our community, our civil society. So it's a morality and a code of conduct that is enforced upon the whole of the community. For the public good, and ultimately good is determined by God himself. It's the measurable difference between right and wrong, good and evil, and that is the person of Jesus Christ. Truth and the reality of which God has presented us to, has that moral code embedded in, in the fabric of our reality. And as C.S. lewis put it, we can discover truth, and then we can apply it to not only our daily lives, but to our systems of government and those institutions that God has ordained. And so when we apply that bigger principle to our American system of government, we have to ask and answer the question, are we doing that well in society currently? Well, I think that perhaps, my home state, the free state of Florida, has been doing that well compared to perhaps California or NewSong York or some of the blue states, some of the other lesser blue states or lesser Red states are doing that more or less. well, but the standard should always be whether or not we are abiding by the legitimate principles of morality that God himself has given to us. That's our standard. It's not about Republican versus Democrat. It's not about you know, Trump versus some other candidate. It's not about a personality or loyalty. It's always about principle. And that used to be understood by conservatives as the thing that we are conserving. We are conserving truth. And we are continuing as our founders provided to build a moral and upright society. And so as we move forward, with new advances in technology, we're having to confront what do we do with artificial intelligence. There's an incredible set of moral questions that we need to apply to that technology, to its regulation, to its use in civil society, in in not only state funded institutions like public schools, but also how the, the church, may or may not utilize that. there was even just recently a controversy over plagiarism of pastors who are using AI to write their sermons. is that ethical? I don't think that it is. Right. And how do we deal with that in the various institutions between civil government versus the church government? Obviously those are two different answers in terms of whose authority we are compelling and the principles that we're providing. Because civil government regulation, ultimately in our constitutional republic comes down to we, the people, we can vote our leaders out. And that's why we have primaries, that's why we have general elections, in church government, hopefully everyone is responsible, and accountable to their local body, to a board of elders, even the pastor is responsible to a board of elders, so that we have and can enforce church discipline. But when we're talking about, you know, the civil government and as we move along, our timeline in the world waiting for the return of Christ, we have to ask and answer these questions of basic civil morality. And this isn't just about the obvious questions like pro life or whether men can become women. I mean those are obviously moral, questions. But everything that the government does and what it suggests as good and permissible in society versus what it prohibits and criminalizes in society, that's a moral commentary that the state is enforcing a view of moral truth. And so what we are obligated to do as citizens that have the not only responsibility but the privilege of selecting and preferring our leaders, of voting on issues and ballot issues and amendments and those kinds of things, is to have an objective standard and enforce that standard so that the moral premise in our government system is always the biblical worldview, and it's always a truthful view of society. It's not a false one. It's not a secular one. It is not one that is built on one, personality or one party's specific platform m that may not be in conformance to the word of God. That's what it means to be a Christian society. That's what it means to have a biblical government. it's not about a theocracy where a church controls the government, the civil government. It's about the civil government abiding by truth.
Joseph Parker: We need to get more involved in the primary
And so, we had a primary here in the Free State of Florida last night. And, and you know, the, always the interesting question about a primary, especially when you're talking just about selecting the best candidate among, Republicans or among Democrats, you always have to look at who is running and vote based on the issues and the values, and then look at, what is going on in that state and who best we are going to vest the responsibility and the powers of government too. And this is the problem that I personally have with Byron Donalds, who is now the Republican, nominee for governor. Interestingly, he did not attain more than 50% of the vote in the primary. I think that signals some potential, problems as he runs, now in the general election against a Democrat who is very leftist, you know, probably trans and kids, I mean, pro all of the leftist things. So by contrast, does Byron subscribe to more values that I do than the Democrat? Yes. However, that doesn't make necessarily, him the best candidate. And this is where I think that we are doing primaries wrong and have been doing primaries wrong overall in terms of our philosophy coming to the ballot for a while, but especially during the Trump era, where the Trump endorsement and the coronation by the establishment GOP is selecting the winners basically for us, because we've been told in Florida for a long time that the primary is over. Everybody, as of five months ago, coalesce around Byron. He has the most money. He has the Trump endorsement. He's going to win, and basically there's nothing that you can do about it. And that did not sit well with a lot of Floridians. It's still not, and for very good reason, because Governor DeSantis, and this is his opinion, not even just mine, I happen to agree with him. But he has said repeatedly throughout the primary that Byron wasn't part of the significant wins that the Free State of Florida accomplished. you Know, things like the the lack of the COVID mandates, things like the ah, heartbeat bell, a lot of the things that the state legislature, pushed through in DeSantis second term that he said actually on my program in the morning was, was possibly the best Republican, term, in the history of the Republican party in terms of advancing conservative values. And when you have someone whose policy priorities don't align with conservatism, then you have to stop and ask the question, then why are we nominating that person? And to be the nominee of what should be the conservative party, we need to question that. And so it's frustrating once we get to the general election that it's only at that point that so many, Christians end up asking the question, well, wait a minute, isn't there a better candidate? That's what the primaries are for. And this is why it's very difficult in our system to break away from this kind of two party, uniparty, kind of system where we do have the gop with all of its money and and the endorsement power and strength of the Trump endorsement, really can select, all of these people. So what is the solution? Well, we need to get more involved in the primary. We need to know that as good citizens, we need to be engaged in civil government, hold them accountable and responsible to that objective standard of truth. And we need to always select the best candidates. Not because the polls tell us that someone is inevitable or because the endorsement says that they've been coordinated, but actually do the research up front and vote for the best candidate that is actually the conservative standard bearer. And we need to do that well in advance of the general election. And I hope that we will do that well in advance of the 2028 presidential election as well. Because politics of course, can get incredibly divisive. It can get incredibly personal. But we need to remember as Christians that it's not about any of that. It's about selecting and preferring our leaders who will best create policy and will best enforce the law that reflects a biblical standard of objective truth. And that's the whole reason that we have the opportunity and the privilege as Americans to select and prefer our leaders. So we need to be engaged, we need to be even more involved in the civil government, also our church and our family systems of government as well. So I'm Jenna Ellis. I'm filling in for Abe Hamilton this evening. You're listening to the Hamilton Corner and we will be right back with more m.
>> : A discipleship minute with Joseph Parker.
>> Joseph Parker: What should a Pro Life Church look like? It's a church that will prayerfully consider encouraging members to volunteer at local pregnancy centers and to volunteer for other pro life ministries. It's a church that would prayerfully consider supporting a baby clothes closet with diapers, clothes, wipes and other needed items. It's a church that will prayerfully consider becoming a sanctuary church. They will help moms who find themselves expecting a baby at a difficult time. They will come alongside a mother who feels all alone and walk with her through her term of pregnancy and beyond. It's a church that will learn about important pro Life outreach ministries that are doing vital work to end legalized abortion in different ways. Am I really seeking to honor the Lord in doing what he would have me to do as an individual disciple of Christ to help stand for life?
>> Abraham Hamilton III: Shining light into the darkness. This is the Hamilton Corner on American Family Radio.
Jenna Ellis talks about three spheres of government that God has ordained
>> Jenna Ellis: Welcome back to the Hamilton Corner. I'm Jenna Ellis filling in for Abraham Hamilton III this evening. Evening. And we've been talking about the three spheres of government that God has ordained. The civil government, the church government and the family government. And our roles and responsibilities as human beings made in his image and that we understand, our responsibilities as Christians to be part of each of those institutions and our responsibilities and duties as good citizens in civil society and the civil government.
>> Valerie Ellis: And.
>> Jenna Ellis: And then, we should be, if we are Christians and following the Lord, we should be members of a local church and we should also take seriously being members of our family as well. And the roles and the responsibilities that come with being parents, grandparents, even sons and daughters and grandchildren. There are responsibilities, and service that we have to the Lord. And you know, overall, one of the. The big issues that comes up as well is especially within the context of the church, but especially within the context of the family, is an understanding of human conflict and also personal, suffering and understanding of human emotions. And So to talk more about this, I actually want to welcome in my mom, Valerie Ellis. And for regular listeners of Jenna Ellis in the Morning, she has been a frequent guest to talk about the biblical worldview of, a lot of different topics, but particularly the difference between psychological counseling and biblical counseling, which is necessary, for our understanding of what the Bible teaches about how individuals deal with conflict, deal with, our own fallen condition and, some of that responsibility that we have to ensure that we are living our lives according to the biblical worldview. So, my mom, Valerie Ellis, is here with us and welcome, to the Hamilton Corner, but hosted by me this evening, Mom.
>> Valerie Ellis: Yeah, good to, good to be here, Jenna.
>> Jenna Ellis: Absolutely.
Hamilton Corner discusses the distinction between psychological counseling and biblical counseling
And so, you know, you've talked about this on on my morning show, but for those, maybe your regular listeners of the Hamilton Corner, haven't really understood, the distinction. I haven't heard you describe the distinction between psychological counseling and biblical counseling. So, frame that out for us.
>> Valerie Ellis: Sure. So, let's first start with saying that psychological counseling, includes Christian psychological counseling. Some people think as long as you're a Christian, doing psychological counseling, you must be doing biblical counseling. But that is not true. So the, the distinctives are psychological counseling, even if it's secular or Christian. Opposite of that is biblical counseling. So just a couple of, the main categories then would be what is the training? So a psychological, counseling, psychological counseling training would be you go to a secular or Christian university and you are trained in the theories of men on what is wrong with people and how can we help them? Why do people get angry? Why do people get depressed? Why are people anxious? Why do people not get along? Why. Why are there conflicts between parents and children and spouses and all of that, that people come to counseling for? Why? And there are theories that all, all of the theories come from atheist men. And even, even if you get, even if you're in a Christian university, you're getting a degree in psychology, you study those theories. A biblical counselor is trained in what the Bible says about those questions. Why are people angry, why are people anxious, why do people get depressed, etc. So the training is absolutely different. And then you get a, from the state, the secular state, you get a license to help people with those problems. If you are in psychological counseling. A biblical counselor would never be licensed by the state because they don't license what we teach in counseling. So that's one major difference. And the other is, ah, another one is the goals of counseling. For psychological counseling, the goal is just to have relief from the suffering, to have different emotions, to have whatever the counselee's goal is. What is your goal? If you want me to help you get a divorce without having any, problems, then I'll help you out. If you want me to help you be okay with being, gay or lesbian or whatever the goal of the person who's seeking counsel is as a, as a licensed psychologist, I have to help them reach their goal. That is not the goal of a biblical counselor. Biblical counselor goal is to help that person, a Christian, live out his faith in the midst of the situation that he is in the moment. So it's how to live a life pleasing to the Lord. If I'm in a difficult marriage, if I have a rebellious child, if I'm having financial difficulties, whatever the problem is, how do I live out my FAI in that situation? And so those are, those are two big differences. And then there's another difference. Is, how we view suffering. The world, which is the whole thing of psychological, realm is the world's ideas about things. How does the world view suffering? It's random. There's no God behind anything. There's no purpose to it. And so, they can't explain it. They can't give any comfort in it about, about what it is all about. A biblical counselor understands that suffering comes from sin, either from ourselves. Sometimes we bring on our own suffering through our own choices. But also other people in the world can, their choices can affect me and I can be suffering because of somebody else's choice. And there's a purpose for it though, because we know God is sovereign. He is overall, and he overrules all. if a difficulty has come to us, it's because he wants us to honor him and glory, glorify him in the midst of that suffering and also to be sanctified in our own faith, to grow in our knowledge of him and in our trust in Him. There's just a lot in suffering that the Bible teaches us that the world has no idea about that would help us in the midst of our suffering. And then just the fourth one. There's lots of differences, but these are four ones. The fourth one is how we think about emotions because a. The secular realm of psychology, they don't take into. Again, they don't. Their, their counseling is how do I help this person without God? So they don't, they don't put God into the midst of anything. So you're having very strong, intense negative emotions. They will, their theories will say it's coming from your body somehow. It's a bodily problem. For example, depression is, the chemicals in your brain are out of balance. That has never been proven at all. It's just a theory. And they treat it as if. That's for sure. That's. But a lot of people are sad because they should be sad. There are really sad things going on in their lives. And we don't say, oh, you must have something wrong with you. You have a mental health problem here, take a drug to help you. We say, you know what, sadness is appropriate in the situation. That you're in. It makes sense. You're grieving. You're grieving because you have lost something, you've lost a job, your child has cut you off, your spouse has just filed for divorce. of course you would be sad. And it's not a function of your body. This is a function of what is actually going on. The human response to something that's really sad. it all comes down to some people are having their emotions because they have faulty thinking. They're not thinking biblically. So we help them think better and then their emotions stabilize. So that's just a basic way, 30,000 foot overview of some of those main differences.
>> Jenna Ellis: Yeah, and it's, it's such a, an important distinction. And I would, conceptualize it as saying that a psychological counseling doesn't offer hope because it is based on an individual person's goals and essentially selfishness. Where biblical counseling offers hope because of the truth of the gospel of Christ and says even in the midst of our fallen condition, redemption and restoration is possible through the finished work of Christ and we can know how we can live, accordingly. And so there are answers and there is hope. It's not just, well, you know, chase the, the feeling of not being sad anymore and try to be happy all the time, which we, we all know just from our own human experience, is completely not possible.
Many churches in America have lost distinction between psychological counseling and biblical counseling
And so, why is it that so many churches right now in America have completely lost this distinction between psychological counseling and biblical theological training and counseling according to the word of God? And they've essentially farmed this out. And so many pastors say, well, I don't know, you know, I only can, preach, you know what I say on Sundays, but if you want any biblical counseling, go see a therapist.
>> Valerie Ellis: Yeah, it's, it really is a phenomenon for pastors to be farming their counseling out in recent, decades because for the whole history of the church, pastors knew that part of their calling is to help individual people learn to live out their faith in the midst of their situation. So this is something new. a couple of reasons, big reasons. and main reasons. Number one, the seminaries that our pastors are going to have also bought into the, lies of the psychological world. So they're trained in counseling in the same psychological theories that I was just speaking of. That's one problem. But the second problem, a second problem is also that pastors, there's a lot of pastors who don't even go to seminary. They don't know the faith themselves. They do not have a Robust theology of who God's people are, what he has done for us. What about suffering? What about pain and sorrow in this world? How can I help people? Pastors don't know it. I call them, you know, the CEOs of the big circus that they're running. They have no idea how to help their people. So they farm their people out. And usually and hopefully to a Christian psychologist, licensed therapist, so to speak, they themselves do not know the difference between Christian counseling and biblical counseling. So they're just clueless about that. And then the third reason is because we live in such a litigious society and the mental health industry, there's a lot of there's a lot of legal problems that you can get into if you're, if somebody in your church comes to you as a pastor and says I'm depressed. Pastors are afraid to deal with that because if there could be legal ramifications later on if that person tries to harm themselves or harm somebody else, they could be, you weren't qualified to help them. You should have sent them to a licensed person who is qualified to deal with this mental health problem, so to speak. So pastors shy away from it. And it's really sad those people don't get the help and the hope that they actually need because, just because the psychological industry is so huge right now.
>> Jenna Ellis: Yeah. And there's, there's certainly a push by society to go to the so called experts. I mean this is what you know, I've said for a while, when we see all of these so called experts who are who are going and testifying, you know, in front of Senate committees and they can't answer the question, you know, what is a woman? Because like our Supreme Court, Justice nominee, Ketanji Jackson during her ah, confirmation hearings said that she couldn't answer that because she's not a biologist. Well you know, any human being who's rational and is, you know, even two years old can, can say I know the difference between a boy and a girl. But what they're doing is purposefully setting up these so called experts then that the only the experts can dictate what reality is and what we should do about it. And it's incredibly wrong. And Christian pastors should not subscribe into that and they shouldn't shy away from their true ministry. And so in biblical counseling how how has the how have biblical counselors taken that, that fear and basically put that aside and said well we are obligated to do ministry anyway. And we've only got about two minutes before the break here.
>> Valerie Ellis: Well, this is where biblical counselors, we have to have a waiver and consent form basically to cover ourselves legally and explain that we are not doing psychological counseling. We are, it used to be called in back in the olden days, probably before the 1850s, pastoral counseling. We are teaching this person about the Christian faith. We are not saying that we are, we are going into anything medical or anything legal, just to cover ourselves and make it very clear. We are staying in our own lane. We are teaching the word of God and the truth of the Christian faith for this person to implement in their lives, to help them in their situation. So that's one thing. The whole way that Christians look at this is they have forgotten the fact that only God can tell us the truth about the spiritual realm. No human being has any insight at all into the spiritual realm. And so we believe that these, these soul, problems as we call them, they are problems of the soul, which is spiritual. They are not brain problems. They are not physical problems. Even though there's bodily problems that can, bodily misfunctions or something. You can have low thyroid, you can have low blood pressure, you can have hormonal problems. You know, there's lots of things that you, that go wrong in the body that can affect your spiritual life. But you know, we say, okay, that's a, that's the area of the medical doctor. We are going to teach you how to live out your faith. And no human being can see into the spiritual realm. God had to give us revelation for the spiritual realm. So we say this is, this comes from the Source himself. God created us. He created our souls, he created the spiritual realm, he created our mind and he can tell us how to have health if you, if we want to use that word for it in the spiritual realm. And I'll tell people, nobody knows how much of your problem may be a physical problem going on versus your spiritual life. But let's get your spiritual life going really strong and you have a, you know, get back going, growing in the Lord and trusting in him and moving on with him and becoming more sanctified and everything. Then we'll see whatever else is left over.
>> Jenna Ellis: I have never. Listen.
American Family Radio is Now available on iOS and Apple TV apps
Well, we've got to take a break here. but I'm here with my mom, Valerie Ellis, who's a biblical counselor. I'm Jenna Ellis. We'll be right back with more.
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>> Joseph Parker: If we lose this cultural war, we're
>> Joseph Parker: going to have a hedonistic, humanistic society.
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>> Joseph Parker: The objective is to make disciples of the lord Jesus Christ.
>> : AFR available on iOS and Apple TV and you can find even more app [email protected] apps discerning truth from Deception this
>> Joseph Parker: is David Wheaton, host of the Christian Worldview. If Satan or those he influences can persuade someone to believe a lie, that is a victory for him. The Cove era was a sad example of this. For three years our country was taken over by falsehoods. Six foot social distancing and masking were not true. Science and the vaccine didn't protect people from getting or spreading the virus. Whether it's Covid or the next conspiracy theory, the Bible calls Christians to examine everything carefully, hold fast to that which is good, abstain from every form of evil. Hear our most recent program on this topic with author and radio host Steve Dase at thechristianworldview.org and then tune in this weekend as Christian apologist Frank Turek joins us to talk about a young man he mentored, Charlie Kirk.
>> : Listen to the Christian Worldview with David Wheaton Saturday mornings at 8 Central on American Family Radio.
>> Abraham Hamilton III: The Hamilton Corner podcast and one minute commentaries are available at afr.net back to the Hamilton Corner on American Family Radio.
Jenna Ellis fills in for Abraham Hamilton the Third this evening
>> Jenna Ellis: Welcome back to the Hamilton Corner. I'm Jenna Ellis filling in in for Abraham Hamilton the Third this evening and you can regularly, catch me on the morning program on Jenna Ellis in the morning or live from 7 to 8 central time, 8 to 9 eastern. And you can always, listen to the podcast, the rebroadcast of the [email protected] you can also, listen to our AFR exclusive podcast on Demand with, Jenna Ellis. That's my weekly podcast where I do a little deeper dive into, issues that are, relevant to the present day and actually this Friday I'm really excited. I will have Ray Comfort, who is the very well known Christian evangelist, talking about his life story in ministry in his brand new book, so you can get that on demand on AFR this Friday. And I'm speaking with my special guest this evening, my mom, Valerie Ellis, who is a biblical counselor. And you can see now why I have had such a privilege and blessing of growing up with wonderful parents who took very seriously, first and foremost their commitment and relationship, to each other, to the Lord and then homeschooled, me and my brothers and took discipleship very seriously. And they take a knowledge of God and theology very seriously. And so my mom now has a very robust ministry in biblical counseling and training, and counseling people in an understanding of the things of God and God's solutions to human suffering, to our fallen, state, to the human condition and how we should live our lives as Christians.
Christian counseling focuses on addressing heart and spiritual problems versus psychological counseling
And before the break, mom, you were talking about, you know, the difference between what a Christian counselor does, with addressing heart and spiritual problems versus what psychological counselors do, which is basically just to affirm the the goal of the individual to say, well, I don't want to feel depressed anymore, so help me, not feel that way anymore, but not necessarily resolve the spiritual issue, because they can't. They're not equipped with those biblical tools. And you were, you were saying about your own experience in dealing with people who come you know, with those types of issues and what your experience has been.
>> Valerie Ellis: Yes, I was saying that in my 25 to 30 years of counseling, when I have someone come in who is convinced they might have had a lot of psychological counseling, they are convinced that their problem is physical, they need drugs, etc. And, but, but it's not working. And someone may have given him my name or you know, told them, try biblical counseling. I just say, you know, nobody but God knows if this has a physical component to it, something in your body. But let's get your spiritual life going really strong and see what the effect of that is. And so that's what the counseling becomes. And over a period of time, they start walking with the Lord, they start trusting in the Lord, they understand his promises, they get a biblical worldview of things. I have never had any counselor then who has the exact same emotional intense problems as they did when they first came in. Our spiritual life definitely impacts our emotions and the way that we are dealing with whatever situation we're in. Even if the situation itself doesn't change much. You still have a difficult child, you still have a difficult spouse, you still have a difficult boss at work or something. Once our spiritual life is going strong and we think biblically about things, the situation is the same, but we're not the same in the situation and it makes a huge difference.
>> Jenna Ellis: Yeah. And you know, and again there's so much hope in the truth that God tells us and that he provides in his special revelation so that we can know how to deal with these situations. And you know there's been a lot in the news recently about how many, the statistics of how many people in the United States are on some kind of mind altering or hormone changing medication, whether that's an ssri, that's an anti anxiety medication, that's something to deal with how they feel about their life and their circumstances or psychotropic drugs. And this is a really alarming statistic because to me, you know, obviously not a medical practitioner or anything, but to me it shows that we are as a society not only over prescribing but simply trying to minimize the pain and suffering that is in the world. Even in the midst of a of a society and a time that we probably have the best comforts of you know, any time period across human history. We have a lot of comforts and pleasures, especially as Americans and yet we can't deal with, with life's problems. And so the, the incidences and the studies and the data of how many people are essentially and I'm generalizing here, but they're trying to simply get rid of the negative feelings. They think they shouldn't feel depressed, they shouldn't feel anxiety, they shouldn't feel frustration, they shouldn't feel sadness. And so instead of dealing with it in a spiritual way and in a biblical way, they often do turn simply to medication because that's all that the secular world has to offer. And one of the most prominent cases going on right now, for listeners if you have been following this Lindsay Clancy ah case and I'm going to talk about this more on my radio show, tomorrow morning, so definitely tune in there. but you know she is on trial for an absolutely horrific crime of, of the strangling death of her three children. And the, what came out that was reported by Fox News and other outlets was that she was on a total and prescribed a total of like 17 different medications through a four or so month Period. By several different prescribers. that, that to me is just patently irresponsible. And I would love to know how much that influenced, her decision and her life. But the question for you, mom, is, you know, what does all of this tell you about a society that can't overall deal with the trials and the tribulations of life?
>> Valerie Ellis: Yeah, this is absolutely unconscionable that anybody would prescribe those medications to this woman in the doses that they had with the different ones that they. She had to take more than one. Right. It was a cocktail. And this is what they're doing. They are prescribing a cocktail of these different drugs. My expert for this topic is Dr. Peter Breggen. I would refer, the audience to get, some of his books and some of his materials. Peter Breggen, and he is a psychiatrist. He's written many books. His website is breggen.com and it's b as in boy, R E G G I N. He's a psychiatrist who is blowing the whistle on his profession. And he, he's in his 80s now. He has been on the developmental committee of almost every, if not every, new psychotropic drug in the last 50 years. He knows what these are doing. He said the. It's. The pharmaceutical companies are guilty of what they're doing. They make up diagnoses. They have a new drug and they make up a new diagnosis so that they can market it to the people. That's what he's saying. They have no knowledge of the interactions between the drugs. It's all a game. Oh, maybe a little more of this and a little less of this. More of this. he said they have no knowledge how they interact. Every single one of them is toxic to the brain. Every single one of them. And he said they work by harming the brain. And not only that, they are designed to get past your brain's natural barriers to toxins. Think about that. They purpose. They know your brain has, God gave us, our brain, some barriers to toxins to our brain. These drugs are designed to get past that. They're all toxic to the brain. And he. They are all low doses of anesthesia because you're feeling these intense emotions. You can't handle life. They numb you out just enough. You can function, but you can't feel anything. And then the people come in, they say, I'm still not feeling happy. It's like, yeah, because you are now under this low dose of anesthesia. Very low dose of anesthesia. But it's effective. They still. They don't feel happy, but they're not as sad or as anxious as they used to be. Maybe, And so they said, oh, you're still not happy, so maybe we'll try this. It's all. It is all, I think you're right that it's some, There. It's mispractice, it's malpractice. It's not helping the, person at all become who God could have them be, if they learn his answers to things and not just take a drug and numb yourself out.
>> Jenna Ellis: Yeah.
>> Valerie Ellis: And by the way, Dr. Breggen's book that I would recommend is called you'd drug may be your problem. And then the subtitle is how and why to stop taking psychiatric medications. And he has all the medications in there, what their side effects are and why you should get off of them and how you can get off of them. Because he says it's dangerous to go on these drugs. And it is just as dangerous to get off once you've been on them. You have to have a doctor helping you get off because. And this is problems getting off.
>> Jenna Ellis: Yeah. And this is why, you know, with someone like Lindsey Clancy, who was prescribed all these. And you know, who knows what interactions they may have had or if she, you know, was getting off of one without one prescriber knowing or you know, exactly how, all of this affected, her. Just her consciousness.
Jenna Frum urges listeners to consider biblical counseling over psychological counseling
And And when you're talking about, you know, the. The low doses of anesthesia, I mean, when this is numbing the. The pain and perhaps numbing some of the negative emotions, this has the. The obvious effect of numbing, guilt as well and numbing perhaps a. The. The moral code of conduct that God has written on our hearts that say we know that certain, things are evil to do and when people are so numbed out to those things they can, ultimately go and commit, various crimes and terrible, choices because they're so numbed out on some of these drugs. And you know, there. There's been a lot of studies and some, you know, instances, of, you know, very prominent criminal, cases where, you know, it's not been directly attributable because, you know, obviously big Pharma doesn't want that. But there's been a lot of, correlation and speculation that a lot of this is due to these over prescribing. And so for listeners who are, you know, maybe this is the first time you've heard about the difference between biblical counseling and psychological counseling, or, you know, some of these topics. I would encourage you to email me if you want to reach, my mom, Valerie Ellis, if you have questions for her. she does, counseling by Zoom. She also has a theology class. You can email me jenna fr.net and I'm happy to afford those along. As Tim Wildmon always says, keep them positive and encouraging as well, for any of those messages. But, you are welcome to email me and I can forward those along. But, overall, mom, in just the last few minutes that we have here, and I love and appreciate your ministry and the ministry that, you've given for so many years to me as a, as a counselor and helping me through, things that, you know, have been very prominent in the news of my, My own, difficulties to always keep the focus on the truth of God. And instead of, you know, spiraling into depression or having, you know, dealing with life in all kinds of various other ways, when you keep the truth at the forefront, you can deal with difficulty and it's not easy, but you can deal with it in a way that honors God and ultimately that you are loving him and worshiping him through that. And so, how would you encourage people who maybe are listening this and they're thinking, I don't see hope in my circumstance to, to consider biblical counseling?
>> Valerie Ellis: Ah, that is a broad question. So, you know, and it would of course depend on each person's situation, particular situation. But in, in general. Let me give an example. I got a guy contacted me. He had been in psychological counseling for, I think about five years. He had been. He was destroying his family with his anger. They diagnosed him with explosive anger Syndrome. I didn't even know that was a thing before I met him. He's on so many drugs. His wife was ready to divorce him, but he was convinced that he had something like a disease. You know, you have something. I have this thing and I can never get rid of it. It's hopeless. It's incurable. And I, I said, let me tell you something. This isn't going to be what your psychiatrist or your psychologist told you, but you don't have to be angry. Like, let's talk about why you are angry. You can grow in the Lord and not have explosive anger that is destroying your family. You can take responsibility for that. There is hope. You can repent. God, can change your heart. You can move forward. You and your wife can have a good relationship. You can have a marriage that honors God. I mean, I gave him so much hope, and he's just staring at me like, you got to be kidding. I don't have to live like this. And, I said no. I was so. I felt so bad for him. He was completely convinced that, you know, he has. You might have well be saying you have a brain tumor or something. I can't do anything about it, and
>> Jenna Ellis: we're already out of time. But this is what the Bible offers is hope. So you can email me JennaAFR.net and I'll see our regular listeners tomorrow morning. Thanks so much, Mom. The views and opinions expressed in this broadcast may not necessarily reflect those of the American Family association or American Family Radio.
Hamilton: It should be uncomfortable for a believer to live as a hypocrite
>> Joseph Parker: Darkness is not an affirmative force. It simply reoccupies the space vacated by the light.
>> Abraham Hamilton III: This is the, Hamilton Corner on American Family Radio.
>> Joseph Parker: It should be uncomfortable for a believer to live as a hypocrite, delivering people
>> Abraham Hamilton III: out of the bondage of mainstream media and the philosophies of this world.
>> Joseph Parker: God has called you and me to be his ambassadors. Even in this dark moment. Let's not miss our moment.
>> Abraham Hamilton III: And now, the, Hamilton Corner.
Jenna Ellis filling in for Abraham Hamilton III this evening
>> Jenna Ellis: Good evening and welcome to the Hamilton Corner. I'm Jenna Ellis filling in for Abraham Hamilton III this evening. And such a privilege always to join you at opportunities where he needs a guest host. And, it's. It's great to wrap up the evening instead of my usual spot, which is the first live show of the morning on afr. So, it's great to kind of bookend this evening. And, you know, I just have to say that Abe is such a wonderful host and has become m a very de friend everyone at American Family Radio, American Family Association. I have so appreciated, their ministry, Christian fellowship and friendship. And it is such a blessing to be part of this ministry. And so for those who maybe don't listen in the morning, typically my show, Jenna Ellis in the morning, we cover a, news of the day of, that's politics, culture, theology, and everything to do with, with the three institutions that God has ordained. The church government, the family government, and the civil government. And most often a lot of the headlines fall into the civil government realm. And, what God has given in terms of legitimate, specific, limited authority to the civil government so that we can promote good and restrain evil in civil society. And we're going to start with that and then kind of work our way, through this program into some aspects of church and family as well. with a very special guest coming up in the next segment.
Christian leaders should wield government power benevolently, according to biblical worldview
but first I want to start with the civil government. And, of course, we are in the midst of primary season, and this is the opportunity here in America, to select and prefer our leaders. And as our founders recognized, when we select and prefer Christians, then we live in a system of government where our leaders, wield the powers of government benevolent, benevolently, if I can say that word, on this evening. And I do have coffee, by the way, because I have coffee in the mornings too. But the civil government will wield that benevolently and will do that in a way that is in accordance with the principles of the biblical worldview. By contrast, if we select and prefer evil leaders, then we'll See, like what happened to the nation of Israel in the Old Testament, that when they had wicked kings and wicked rulers, the people groaned and suffered under the weight of that pain. because even in a constitutional republic like we still have in the United States, our government leaders on both the state and federal level have a lot that they, that they can permit or prohibit, and a lot that will necessarily impact our daily lives and will necessarily impact the church and the family governments. And so civil government was designed, by God, and we see that in Scripture that he established the nations and the boundaries of the nations, and he established a civil government as a way to enforce morality and his truth in society. Now, this isn't forcing salvation. It's not forcing what the church provides, which is a substantive and, deep relationship with the Lord and understanding of theology, a teaching of Scripture, membership in a local church. That's not what the civil government provides. And so when Thomas Jefferson wrote, that letter to the Danbury Baptist and talking about a separation of church and state, it wasn't suggesting that the state is in any way secular or devoid of moral principles. It was simply recognizing that the state is a different jurisdiction, it's a different institution. The state does not compel you or I to believe in the Lord as our Savior, doesn't compel us to go to church, doesn't compel us on how, we need to choose to raise our kids in the fear and admonition of the Lord. it doesn't prescribe parenting, rules of your household. But the state does prescribe and also prohibit certain activities in our community, our civil society. So it's a morality and a code of conduct that is enforced upon the whole of the community. For the public good, and ultimately good is determined by God himself. It's the measurable difference between right and wrong, good and evil, and that is the person of Jesus Christ. Truth and the reality of which God has presented us to, has that moral code embedded in, in the fabric of our reality. And as C.S. lewis put it, we can discover truth, and then we can apply it to not only our daily lives, but to our systems of government and those institutions that God has ordained. And so when we apply that bigger principle to our American system of government, we have to ask and answer the question, are we doing that well in society currently? Well, I think that perhaps, my home state, the free state of Florida, has been doing that well compared to perhaps California or NewSong York or some of the blue states, some of the other lesser blue states or lesser Red states are doing that more or less. well, but the standard should always be whether or not we are abiding by the legitimate principles of morality that God himself has given to us. That's our standard. It's not about Republican versus Democrat. It's not about you know, Trump versus some other candidate. It's not about a personality or loyalty. It's always about principle. And that used to be understood by conservatives as the thing that we are conserving. We are conserving truth. And we are continuing as our founders provided to build a moral and upright society. And so as we move forward, with new advances in technology, we're having to confront what do we do with artificial intelligence. There's an incredible set of moral questions that we need to apply to that technology, to its regulation, to its use in civil society, in in not only state funded institutions like public schools, but also how the, the church, may or may not utilize that. there was even just recently a controversy over plagiarism of pastors who are using AI to write their sermons. is that ethical? I don't think that it is. Right. And how do we deal with that in the various institutions between civil government versus the church government? Obviously those are two different answers in terms of whose authority we are compelling and the principles that we're providing. Because civil government regulation, ultimately in our constitutional republic comes down to we, the people, we can vote our leaders out. And that's why we have primaries, that's why we have general elections, in church government, hopefully everyone is responsible, and accountable to their local body, to a board of elders, even the pastor is responsible to a board of elders, so that we have and can enforce church discipline. But when we're talking about, you know, the civil government and as we move along, our timeline in the world waiting for the return of Christ, we have to ask and answer these questions of basic civil morality. And this isn't just about the obvious questions like pro life or whether men can become women. I mean those are obviously moral, questions. But everything that the government does and what it suggests as good and permissible in society versus what it prohibits and criminalizes in society, that's a moral commentary that the state is enforcing a view of moral truth. And so what we are obligated to do as citizens that have the not only responsibility but the privilege of selecting and preferring our leaders, of voting on issues and ballot issues and amendments and those kinds of things, is to have an objective standard and enforce that standard so that the moral premise in our government system is always the biblical worldview, and it's always a truthful view of society. It's not a false one. It's not a secular one. It is not one that is built on one, personality or one party's specific platform m that may not be in conformance to the word of God. That's what it means to be a Christian society. That's what it means to have a biblical government. it's not about a theocracy where a church controls the government, the civil government. It's about the civil government abiding by truth.
Joseph Parker: We need to get more involved in the primary
And so, we had a primary here in the Free State of Florida last night. And, and you know, the, always the interesting question about a primary, especially when you're talking just about selecting the best candidate among, Republicans or among Democrats, you always have to look at who is running and vote based on the issues and the values, and then look at, what is going on in that state and who best we are going to vest the responsibility and the powers of government too. And this is the problem that I personally have with Byron Donalds, who is now the Republican, nominee for governor. Interestingly, he did not attain more than 50% of the vote in the primary. I think that signals some potential, problems as he runs, now in the general election against a Democrat who is very leftist, you know, probably trans and kids, I mean, pro all of the leftist things. So by contrast, does Byron subscribe to more values that I do than the Democrat? Yes. However, that doesn't make necessarily, him the best candidate. And this is where I think that we are doing primaries wrong and have been doing primaries wrong overall in terms of our philosophy coming to the ballot for a while, but especially during the Trump era, where the Trump endorsement and the coronation by the establishment GOP is selecting the winners basically for us, because we've been told in Florida for a long time that the primary is over. Everybody, as of five months ago, coalesce around Byron. He has the most money. He has the Trump endorsement. He's going to win, and basically there's nothing that you can do about it. And that did not sit well with a lot of Floridians. It's still not, and for very good reason, because Governor DeSantis, and this is his opinion, not even just mine, I happen to agree with him. But he has said repeatedly throughout the primary that Byron wasn't part of the significant wins that the Free State of Florida accomplished. you Know, things like the the lack of the COVID mandates, things like the ah, heartbeat bell, a lot of the things that the state legislature, pushed through in DeSantis second term that he said actually on my program in the morning was, was possibly the best Republican, term, in the history of the Republican party in terms of advancing conservative values. And when you have someone whose policy priorities don't align with conservatism, then you have to stop and ask the question, then why are we nominating that person? And to be the nominee of what should be the conservative party, we need to question that. And so it's frustrating once we get to the general election that it's only at that point that so many, Christians end up asking the question, well, wait a minute, isn't there a better candidate? That's what the primaries are for. And this is why it's very difficult in our system to break away from this kind of two party, uniparty, kind of system where we do have the gop with all of its money and and the endorsement power and strength of the Trump endorsement, really can select, all of these people. So what is the solution? Well, we need to get more involved in the primary. We need to know that as good citizens, we need to be engaged in civil government, hold them accountable and responsible to that objective standard of truth. And we need to always select the best candidates. Not because the polls tell us that someone is inevitable or because the endorsement says that they've been coordinated, but actually do the research up front and vote for the best candidate that is actually the conservative standard bearer. And we need to do that well in advance of the general election. And I hope that we will do that well in advance of the 2028 presidential election as well. Because politics of course, can get incredibly divisive. It can get incredibly personal. But we need to remember as Christians that it's not about any of that. It's about selecting and preferring our leaders who will best create policy and will best enforce the law that reflects a biblical standard of objective truth. And that's the whole reason that we have the opportunity and the privilege as Americans to select and prefer our leaders. So we need to be engaged, we need to be even more involved in the civil government, also our church and our family systems of government as well. So I'm Jenna Ellis. I'm filling in for Abe Hamilton this evening. You're listening to the Hamilton Corner and we will be right back with more m.
>> : A discipleship minute with Joseph Parker.
>> Joseph Parker: What should a Pro Life Church look like? It's a church that will prayerfully consider encouraging members to volunteer at local pregnancy centers and to volunteer for other pro life ministries. It's a church that would prayerfully consider supporting a baby clothes closet with diapers, clothes, wipes and other needed items. It's a church that will prayerfully consider becoming a sanctuary church. They will help moms who find themselves expecting a baby at a difficult time. They will come alongside a mother who feels all alone and walk with her through her term of pregnancy and beyond. It's a church that will learn about important pro Life outreach ministries that are doing vital work to end legalized abortion in different ways. Am I really seeking to honor the Lord in doing what he would have me to do as an individual disciple of Christ to help stand for life?
>> Abraham Hamilton III: Shining light into the darkness. This is the Hamilton Corner on American Family Radio.
Jenna Ellis talks about three spheres of government that God has ordained
>> Jenna Ellis: Welcome back to the Hamilton Corner. I'm Jenna Ellis filling in for Abraham Hamilton III this evening. Evening. And we've been talking about the three spheres of government that God has ordained. The civil government, the church government and the family government. And our roles and responsibilities as human beings made in his image and that we understand, our responsibilities as Christians to be part of each of those institutions and our responsibilities and duties as good citizens in civil society and the civil government.
>> Valerie Ellis: And.
>> Jenna Ellis: And then, we should be, if we are Christians and following the Lord, we should be members of a local church and we should also take seriously being members of our family as well. And the roles and the responsibilities that come with being parents, grandparents, even sons and daughters and grandchildren. There are responsibilities, and service that we have to the Lord. And you know, overall, one of the. The big issues that comes up as well is especially within the context of the church, but especially within the context of the family, is an understanding of human conflict and also personal, suffering and understanding of human emotions. And So to talk more about this, I actually want to welcome in my mom, Valerie Ellis. And for regular listeners of Jenna Ellis in the Morning, she has been a frequent guest to talk about the biblical worldview of, a lot of different topics, but particularly the difference between psychological counseling and biblical counseling, which is necessary, for our understanding of what the Bible teaches about how individuals deal with conflict, deal with, our own fallen condition and, some of that responsibility that we have to ensure that we are living our lives according to the biblical worldview. So, my mom, Valerie Ellis, is here with us and welcome, to the Hamilton Corner, but hosted by me this evening, Mom.
>> Valerie Ellis: Yeah, good to, good to be here, Jenna.
>> Jenna Ellis: Absolutely.
Hamilton Corner discusses the distinction between psychological counseling and biblical counseling
And so, you know, you've talked about this on on my morning show, but for those, maybe your regular listeners of the Hamilton Corner, haven't really understood, the distinction. I haven't heard you describe the distinction between psychological counseling and biblical counseling. So, frame that out for us.
>> Valerie Ellis: Sure. So, let's first start with saying that psychological counseling, includes Christian psychological counseling. Some people think as long as you're a Christian, doing psychological counseling, you must be doing biblical counseling. But that is not true. So the, the distinctives are psychological counseling, even if it's secular or Christian. Opposite of that is biblical counseling. So just a couple of, the main categories then would be what is the training? So a psychological, counseling, psychological counseling training would be you go to a secular or Christian university and you are trained in the theories of men on what is wrong with people and how can we help them? Why do people get angry? Why do people get depressed? Why are people anxious? Why do people not get along? Why. Why are there conflicts between parents and children and spouses and all of that, that people come to counseling for? Why? And there are theories that all, all of the theories come from atheist men. And even, even if you get, even if you're in a Christian university, you're getting a degree in psychology, you study those theories. A biblical counselor is trained in what the Bible says about those questions. Why are people angry, why are people anxious, why do people get depressed, etc. So the training is absolutely different. And then you get a, from the state, the secular state, you get a license to help people with those problems. If you are in psychological counseling. A biblical counselor would never be licensed by the state because they don't license what we teach in counseling. So that's one major difference. And the other is, ah, another one is the goals of counseling. For psychological counseling, the goal is just to have relief from the suffering, to have different emotions, to have whatever the counselee's goal is. What is your goal? If you want me to help you get a divorce without having any, problems, then I'll help you out. If you want me to help you be okay with being, gay or lesbian or whatever the goal of the person who's seeking counsel is as a, as a licensed psychologist, I have to help them reach their goal. That is not the goal of a biblical counselor. Biblical counselor goal is to help that person, a Christian, live out his faith in the midst of the situation that he is in the moment. So it's how to live a life pleasing to the Lord. If I'm in a difficult marriage, if I have a rebellious child, if I'm having financial difficulties, whatever the problem is, how do I live out my FAI in that situation? And so those are, those are two big differences. And then there's another difference. Is, how we view suffering. The world, which is the whole thing of psychological, realm is the world's ideas about things. How does the world view suffering? It's random. There's no God behind anything. There's no purpose to it. And so, they can't explain it. They can't give any comfort in it about, about what it is all about. A biblical counselor understands that suffering comes from sin, either from ourselves. Sometimes we bring on our own suffering through our own choices. But also other people in the world can, their choices can affect me and I can be suffering because of somebody else's choice. And there's a purpose for it though, because we know God is sovereign. He is overall, and he overrules all. if a difficulty has come to us, it's because he wants us to honor him and glory, glorify him in the midst of that suffering and also to be sanctified in our own faith, to grow in our knowledge of him and in our trust in Him. There's just a lot in suffering that the Bible teaches us that the world has no idea about that would help us in the midst of our suffering. And then just the fourth one. There's lots of differences, but these are four ones. The fourth one is how we think about emotions because a. The secular realm of psychology, they don't take into. Again, they don't. Their, their counseling is how do I help this person without God? So they don't, they don't put God into the midst of anything. So you're having very strong, intense negative emotions. They will, their theories will say it's coming from your body somehow. It's a bodily problem. For example, depression is, the chemicals in your brain are out of balance. That has never been proven at all. It's just a theory. And they treat it as if. That's for sure. That's. But a lot of people are sad because they should be sad. There are really sad things going on in their lives. And we don't say, oh, you must have something wrong with you. You have a mental health problem here, take a drug to help you. We say, you know what, sadness is appropriate in the situation. That you're in. It makes sense. You're grieving. You're grieving because you have lost something, you've lost a job, your child has cut you off, your spouse has just filed for divorce. of course you would be sad. And it's not a function of your body. This is a function of what is actually going on. The human response to something that's really sad. it all comes down to some people are having their emotions because they have faulty thinking. They're not thinking biblically. So we help them think better and then their emotions stabilize. So that's just a basic way, 30,000 foot overview of some of those main differences.
>> Jenna Ellis: Yeah, and it's, it's such a, an important distinction. And I would, conceptualize it as saying that a psychological counseling doesn't offer hope because it is based on an individual person's goals and essentially selfishness. Where biblical counseling offers hope because of the truth of the gospel of Christ and says even in the midst of our fallen condition, redemption and restoration is possible through the finished work of Christ and we can know how we can live, accordingly. And so there are answers and there is hope. It's not just, well, you know, chase the, the feeling of not being sad anymore and try to be happy all the time, which we, we all know just from our own human experience, is completely not possible.
Many churches in America have lost distinction between psychological counseling and biblical counseling
And so, why is it that so many churches right now in America have completely lost this distinction between psychological counseling and biblical theological training and counseling according to the word of God? And they've essentially farmed this out. And so many pastors say, well, I don't know, you know, I only can, preach, you know what I say on Sundays, but if you want any biblical counseling, go see a therapist.
>> Valerie Ellis: Yeah, it's, it really is a phenomenon for pastors to be farming their counseling out in recent, decades because for the whole history of the church, pastors knew that part of their calling is to help individual people learn to live out their faith in the midst of their situation. So this is something new. a couple of reasons, big reasons. and main reasons. Number one, the seminaries that our pastors are going to have also bought into the, lies of the psychological world. So they're trained in counseling in the same psychological theories that I was just speaking of. That's one problem. But the second problem, a second problem is also that pastors, there's a lot of pastors who don't even go to seminary. They don't know the faith themselves. They do not have a Robust theology of who God's people are, what he has done for us. What about suffering? What about pain and sorrow in this world? How can I help people? Pastors don't know it. I call them, you know, the CEOs of the big circus that they're running. They have no idea how to help their people. So they farm their people out. And usually and hopefully to a Christian psychologist, licensed therapist, so to speak, they themselves do not know the difference between Christian counseling and biblical counseling. So they're just clueless about that. And then the third reason is because we live in such a litigious society and the mental health industry, there's a lot of there's a lot of legal problems that you can get into if you're, if somebody in your church comes to you as a pastor and says I'm depressed. Pastors are afraid to deal with that because if there could be legal ramifications later on if that person tries to harm themselves or harm somebody else, they could be, you weren't qualified to help them. You should have sent them to a licensed person who is qualified to deal with this mental health problem, so to speak. So pastors shy away from it. And it's really sad those people don't get the help and the hope that they actually need because, just because the psychological industry is so huge right now.
>> Jenna Ellis: Yeah. And there's, there's certainly a push by society to go to the so called experts. I mean this is what you know, I've said for a while, when we see all of these so called experts who are who are going and testifying, you know, in front of Senate committees and they can't answer the question, you know, what is a woman? Because like our Supreme Court, Justice nominee, Ketanji Jackson during her ah, confirmation hearings said that she couldn't answer that because she's not a biologist. Well you know, any human being who's rational and is, you know, even two years old can, can say I know the difference between a boy and a girl. But what they're doing is purposefully setting up these so called experts then that the only the experts can dictate what reality is and what we should do about it. And it's incredibly wrong. And Christian pastors should not subscribe into that and they shouldn't shy away from their true ministry. And so in biblical counseling how how has the how have biblical counselors taken that, that fear and basically put that aside and said well we are obligated to do ministry anyway. And we've only got about two minutes before the break here.
>> Valerie Ellis: Well, this is where biblical counselors, we have to have a waiver and consent form basically to cover ourselves legally and explain that we are not doing psychological counseling. We are, it used to be called in back in the olden days, probably before the 1850s, pastoral counseling. We are teaching this person about the Christian faith. We are not saying that we are, we are going into anything medical or anything legal, just to cover ourselves and make it very clear. We are staying in our own lane. We are teaching the word of God and the truth of the Christian faith for this person to implement in their lives, to help them in their situation. So that's one thing. The whole way that Christians look at this is they have forgotten the fact that only God can tell us the truth about the spiritual realm. No human being has any insight at all into the spiritual realm. And so we believe that these, these soul, problems as we call them, they are problems of the soul, which is spiritual. They are not brain problems. They are not physical problems. Even though there's bodily problems that can, bodily misfunctions or something. You can have low thyroid, you can have low blood pressure, you can have hormonal problems. You know, there's lots of things that you, that go wrong in the body that can affect your spiritual life. But you know, we say, okay, that's a, that's the area of the medical doctor. We are going to teach you how to live out your faith. And no human being can see into the spiritual realm. God had to give us revelation for the spiritual realm. So we say this is, this comes from the Source himself. God created us. He created our souls, he created the spiritual realm, he created our mind and he can tell us how to have health if you, if we want to use that word for it in the spiritual realm. And I'll tell people, nobody knows how much of your problem may be a physical problem going on versus your spiritual life. But let's get your spiritual life going really strong and you have a, you know, get back going, growing in the Lord and trusting in him and moving on with him and becoming more sanctified and everything. Then we'll see whatever else is left over.
>> Jenna Ellis: I have never. Listen.
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>> Jenna Ellis: Welcome back to the Hamilton Corner. I'm Jenna Ellis filling in in for Abraham Hamilton the Third this evening and you can regularly, catch me on the morning program on Jenna Ellis in the morning or live from 7 to 8 central time, 8 to 9 eastern. And you can always, listen to the podcast, the rebroadcast of the [email protected] you can also, listen to our AFR exclusive podcast on Demand with, Jenna Ellis. That's my weekly podcast where I do a little deeper dive into, issues that are, relevant to the present day and actually this Friday I'm really excited. I will have Ray Comfort, who is the very well known Christian evangelist, talking about his life story in ministry in his brand new book, so you can get that on demand on AFR this Friday. And I'm speaking with my special guest this evening, my mom, Valerie Ellis, who is a biblical counselor. And you can see now why I have had such a privilege and blessing of growing up with wonderful parents who took very seriously, first and foremost their commitment and relationship, to each other, to the Lord and then homeschooled, me and my brothers and took discipleship very seriously. And they take a knowledge of God and theology very seriously. And so my mom now has a very robust ministry in biblical counseling and training, and counseling people in an understanding of the things of God and God's solutions to human suffering, to our fallen, state, to the human condition and how we should live our lives as Christians.
Christian counseling focuses on addressing heart and spiritual problems versus psychological counseling
And before the break, mom, you were talking about, you know, the difference between what a Christian counselor does, with addressing heart and spiritual problems versus what psychological counselors do, which is basically just to affirm the the goal of the individual to say, well, I don't want to feel depressed anymore, so help me, not feel that way anymore, but not necessarily resolve the spiritual issue, because they can't. They're not equipped with those biblical tools. And you were, you were saying about your own experience in dealing with people who come you know, with those types of issues and what your experience has been.
>> Valerie Ellis: Yes, I was saying that in my 25 to 30 years of counseling, when I have someone come in who is convinced they might have had a lot of psychological counseling, they are convinced that their problem is physical, they need drugs, etc. And, but, but it's not working. And someone may have given him my name or you know, told them, try biblical counseling. I just say, you know, nobody but God knows if this has a physical component to it, something in your body. But let's get your spiritual life going really strong and see what the effect of that is. And so that's what the counseling becomes. And over a period of time, they start walking with the Lord, they start trusting in the Lord, they understand his promises, they get a biblical worldview of things. I have never had any counselor then who has the exact same emotional intense problems as they did when they first came in. Our spiritual life definitely impacts our emotions and the way that we are dealing with whatever situation we're in. Even if the situation itself doesn't change much. You still have a difficult child, you still have a difficult spouse, you still have a difficult boss at work or something. Once our spiritual life is going strong and we think biblically about things, the situation is the same, but we're not the same in the situation and it makes a huge difference.
>> Jenna Ellis: Yeah. And you know, and again there's so much hope in the truth that God tells us and that he provides in his special revelation so that we can know how to deal with these situations. And you know there's been a lot in the news recently about how many, the statistics of how many people in the United States are on some kind of mind altering or hormone changing medication, whether that's an ssri, that's an anti anxiety medication, that's something to deal with how they feel about their life and their circumstances or psychotropic drugs. And this is a really alarming statistic because to me, you know, obviously not a medical practitioner or anything, but to me it shows that we are as a society not only over prescribing but simply trying to minimize the pain and suffering that is in the world. Even in the midst of a of a society and a time that we probably have the best comforts of you know, any time period across human history. We have a lot of comforts and pleasures, especially as Americans and yet we can't deal with, with life's problems. And so the, the incidences and the studies and the data of how many people are essentially and I'm generalizing here, but they're trying to simply get rid of the negative feelings. They think they shouldn't feel depressed, they shouldn't feel anxiety, they shouldn't feel frustration, they shouldn't feel sadness. And so instead of dealing with it in a spiritual way and in a biblical way, they often do turn simply to medication because that's all that the secular world has to offer. And one of the most prominent cases going on right now, for listeners if you have been following this Lindsay Clancy ah case and I'm going to talk about this more on my radio show, tomorrow morning, so definitely tune in there. but you know she is on trial for an absolutely horrific crime of, of the strangling death of her three children. And the, what came out that was reported by Fox News and other outlets was that she was on a total and prescribed a total of like 17 different medications through a four or so month Period. By several different prescribers. that, that to me is just patently irresponsible. And I would love to know how much that influenced, her decision and her life. But the question for you, mom, is, you know, what does all of this tell you about a society that can't overall deal with the trials and the tribulations of life?
>> Valerie Ellis: Yeah, this is absolutely unconscionable that anybody would prescribe those medications to this woman in the doses that they had with the different ones that they. She had to take more than one. Right. It was a cocktail. And this is what they're doing. They are prescribing a cocktail of these different drugs. My expert for this topic is Dr. Peter Breggen. I would refer, the audience to get, some of his books and some of his materials. Peter Breggen, and he is a psychiatrist. He's written many books. His website is breggen.com and it's b as in boy, R E G G I N. He's a psychiatrist who is blowing the whistle on his profession. And he, he's in his 80s now. He has been on the developmental committee of almost every, if not every, new psychotropic drug in the last 50 years. He knows what these are doing. He said the. It's. The pharmaceutical companies are guilty of what they're doing. They make up diagnoses. They have a new drug and they make up a new diagnosis so that they can market it to the people. That's what he's saying. They have no knowledge of the interactions between the drugs. It's all a game. Oh, maybe a little more of this and a little less of this. More of this. he said they have no knowledge how they interact. Every single one of them is toxic to the brain. Every single one of them. And he said they work by harming the brain. And not only that, they are designed to get past your brain's natural barriers to toxins. Think about that. They purpose. They know your brain has, God gave us, our brain, some barriers to toxins to our brain. These drugs are designed to get past that. They're all toxic to the brain. And he. They are all low doses of anesthesia because you're feeling these intense emotions. You can't handle life. They numb you out just enough. You can function, but you can't feel anything. And then the people come in, they say, I'm still not feeling happy. It's like, yeah, because you are now under this low dose of anesthesia. Very low dose of anesthesia. But it's effective. They still. They don't feel happy, but they're not as sad or as anxious as they used to be. Maybe, And so they said, oh, you're still not happy, so maybe we'll try this. It's all. It is all, I think you're right that it's some, There. It's mispractice, it's malpractice. It's not helping the, person at all become who God could have them be, if they learn his answers to things and not just take a drug and numb yourself out.
>> Jenna Ellis: Yeah.
>> Valerie Ellis: And by the way, Dr. Breggen's book that I would recommend is called you'd drug may be your problem. And then the subtitle is how and why to stop taking psychiatric medications. And he has all the medications in there, what their side effects are and why you should get off of them and how you can get off of them. Because he says it's dangerous to go on these drugs. And it is just as dangerous to get off once you've been on them. You have to have a doctor helping you get off because. And this is problems getting off.
>> Jenna Ellis: Yeah. And this is why, you know, with someone like Lindsey Clancy, who was prescribed all these. And you know, who knows what interactions they may have had or if she, you know, was getting off of one without one prescriber knowing or you know, exactly how, all of this affected, her. Just her consciousness.
Jenna Frum urges listeners to consider biblical counseling over psychological counseling
And And when you're talking about, you know, the. The low doses of anesthesia, I mean, when this is numbing the. The pain and perhaps numbing some of the negative emotions, this has the. The obvious effect of numbing, guilt as well and numbing perhaps a. The. The moral code of conduct that God has written on our hearts that say we know that certain, things are evil to do and when people are so numbed out to those things they can, ultimately go and commit, various crimes and terrible, choices because they're so numbed out on some of these drugs. And you know, there. There's been a lot of studies and some, you know, instances, of, you know, very prominent criminal, cases where, you know, it's not been directly attributable because, you know, obviously big Pharma doesn't want that. But there's been a lot of, correlation and speculation that a lot of this is due to these over prescribing. And so for listeners who are, you know, maybe this is the first time you've heard about the difference between biblical counseling and psychological counseling, or, you know, some of these topics. I would encourage you to email me if you want to reach, my mom, Valerie Ellis, if you have questions for her. she does, counseling by Zoom. She also has a theology class. You can email me jenna fr.net and I'm happy to afford those along. As Tim Wildmon always says, keep them positive and encouraging as well, for any of those messages. But, you are welcome to email me and I can forward those along. But, overall, mom, in just the last few minutes that we have here, and I love and appreciate your ministry and the ministry that, you've given for so many years to me as a, as a counselor and helping me through, things that, you know, have been very prominent in the news of my, My own, difficulties to always keep the focus on the truth of God. And instead of, you know, spiraling into depression or having, you know, dealing with life in all kinds of various other ways, when you keep the truth at the forefront, you can deal with difficulty and it's not easy, but you can deal with it in a way that honors God and ultimately that you are loving him and worshiping him through that. And so, how would you encourage people who maybe are listening this and they're thinking, I don't see hope in my circumstance to, to consider biblical counseling?
>> Valerie Ellis: Ah, that is a broad question. So, you know, and it would of course depend on each person's situation, particular situation. But in, in general. Let me give an example. I got a guy contacted me. He had been in psychological counseling for, I think about five years. He had been. He was destroying his family with his anger. They diagnosed him with explosive anger Syndrome. I didn't even know that was a thing before I met him. He's on so many drugs. His wife was ready to divorce him, but he was convinced that he had something like a disease. You know, you have something. I have this thing and I can never get rid of it. It's hopeless. It's incurable. And I, I said, let me tell you something. This isn't going to be what your psychiatrist or your psychologist told you, but you don't have to be angry. Like, let's talk about why you are angry. You can grow in the Lord and not have explosive anger that is destroying your family. You can take responsibility for that. There is hope. You can repent. God, can change your heart. You can move forward. You and your wife can have a good relationship. You can have a marriage that honors God. I mean, I gave him so much hope, and he's just staring at me like, you got to be kidding. I don't have to live like this. And, I said no. I was so. I felt so bad for him. He was completely convinced that, you know, he has. You might have well be saying you have a brain tumor or something. I can't do anything about it, and
>> Jenna Ellis: we're already out of time. But this is what the Bible offers is hope. So you can email me JennaAFR.net and I'll see our regular listeners tomorrow morning. Thanks so much, Mom. The views and opinions expressed in this broadcast may not necessarily reflect those of the American Family association or American Family Radio.
Guest Host, Jenna Ellis, is joined by her mother, Valerie Ellis, to discuss Biblical Counseling
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Guest Host, Jenna Ellis, is joined by her mother, Valerie Ellis, to discuss Biblical Counseling
https://afafoundation.net/ | 1-800-326-4543 ext. 345
https://afr.net/BIBLESFORBABIES To donate call: 877-616-2396
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