John Riley
Welcome to the Middle East report, your connection to truthful reporting on Israel and The Middle East.
Each week, we connect you to the people, places in the land of Israel, and, of course, we bring you the truth of what's happening there in the land of Israel.
There's a lot of deception out there regarding Israel and the Jewish people.
You have to dig very deep to find the truth, and we try to do that every weekend here on American Family Radio.
You're gonna hear current events.
John Riley
You're gonna hear some Bible teaching about Israel and things related to that.
It's a show that has a lot of variety on it, and and I appreciate you listening to this edition of the Middle East report.
Today, we're gonna talk about the bible.
We're gonna set current events aside, and we are gonna talk about the word of God with a dear friend of mine who lives in Israel.
His name is doctor Wayne Hilson.
John Riley
He cofounded King of Kings in 1983.
It's a messiah centered congregation right there in the heart of Jerusalem.
This guy has done so much to bridge the the gap between Jews and Christians and and planting congregations there with with Jewish believers in in Yeshua there in the land of Israel.
He's got a master of divinity degree as well and a doctor of ministry degree.
Lot of degrees, but most of all, he's a dear friend of mine, and, he is also the founder and president of firm, the fellowship of Israel related ministries.
John Riley
We're gonna talk about that too.
We so appreciate, you know, what you do.
You you live there in the land of Israel.
You're a part of king of kings, and we've talked a lot, you know, over the last many, many years.
We've developed this relationship.
John Riley
And you've made a huge impact, you and your entire team.
I know it's not just you there in the land.
And I always know that there's some people who just don't know, you know, what king of kings is.
And and then I wanna talk a little bit about firm, and then we're gonna get into some Bible teaching today about a topic and a subject that's in the news.
But tell us about king of kings and then, of course, weave into that firm.
John Riley
I love that organization.
Wayne Hilsden
Yeah.
So my wife and I moved to Israel in 1983 from Canada, and we joined another Canadian couple, Jim and Kathy Cannella, and planted this church called King of Kings.
So started out as a little bible study in a small apartment, then it grew and developed.
Eventually, the Lord gave us an amazing facility.
We bought the largest movie theater in the city.
Wayne Hilsden
It's right on Jaffa Street downtown called The Pavilion.
Made it into a performing arts center, but it's really our sanctuary, but we rented out to the wider cultural community, to the army, to the police, to the high schools, to the city, the cultural community.
And, so we're right in the marketplace, and it's pretty pretty amazing.
And we bought a bunch of other properties in the same building.
And on the 21st Floor of the office tower, built a prayer center, which we called the summit, Jerusalem Summit.
Wayne Hilsden
And we see almost the entire city of Jerusalem.
And on a clear day, we can see Amman, Jordan, couple of buildings up in...
Right on the hill.
So we're in a really strategic location in the heart of Jerusalem.
So did that for many years and then handed off the baton to a younger man, twenty twenty two years younger than me, Chad Holland.
Wayne Hilsden
I'm still one of the pastors, and, King of Kings has grown.
We've got 22 congregations in Israel that are in our network and then seven abroad.
And I was just in Los Angeles to meet up with our pastors of king of kings LA, so that was fun.
So this was not in our plans.
It just...
Wayne Hilsden
Somehow the Lord has expanded the, the reach, and that's been exciting.
And then you mentioned FERM, fellowship of Israel related ministries.
So eleven years ago, Felt led to bring together a coalition of ministries that are based in Israel, all that are gospel centered, Jesus centered, and start up.
We invited 15 other ministries to come and be part of this coalition, not just to be unified, but to collaborate, actually work together and be part of the answer to Jesus' prayer in John 17 that we'd be one, that the world would know that the father sent him.
So we just believe the gospel has more power and persuasiveness when we love each other and work together, and it just shows that the gospel works.
Wayne Hilsden
And so now 81 ministries based in Israel are part of this coalition, and we we actually work together.
John Riley
And, you know, what's amazing about FIRM is that you vet these different ministries.
You you check them out because one of the main tenets of FERM, fellowship of Israel related ministries, is that you want people around the world and here in The United States to be able to support ministries in Israel confidently.
You want them to be able to do that and say, I am confident that I can support this ministry.
So you guys are filled with integrity, filled with financial integrity, all of that.
So you check out these ministries, and it's like the good housekeeping seal, if you will, on these ministries.
John Riley
So somebody can go to firm, and you're you're thinking into yourself, I would love to support a ministry or some organization in Israel.
God wants me to do that.
I have a heart for the Jewish people in the land of Israel.
And then you you can go to firmfirmisrael.org.
Wayne Hilsden
That's it.
Firmisrael.org.
John Riley
You go to firmisrael.org, and you'll see all these ministry opportunities.
And you can just choose, you know, whatever the Lord leads you to.
So I love this.
Wayne Hilsden
Yeah.
God's been blessing it, and we're really seeing impact.
And, you know, that's important too.
When we look at what ministries can bring to the table, we look at, okay.
What's the fruit?
Wayne Hilsden
You know?
It's not just a good newsletter or a good podcast, but it's, they're actually reaching people with the gospel, making disciples, doing kingdom work.
John Riley
Firmisrael.org.
Firmisrael.org.
I encourage you to check out that website because, Wayne, I get people asking me all the time, what is the good ministry that I can support there in Israel?
And I have some recommendations, but I always send them to firm because you guys have done the work.
People can go to that website, and they can choose a ministry that they wanna support confidently.
John Riley
So I encourage you to to go to firmisrael.org.
We wanna spend the rest of this show talking about a subject here, and you're...
You have such a pastoral heart.
You're still a pastor, and you love to teach.
And we're hearing a lot about Zionism these days.
John Riley
You know, like, Zionism has almost become like a curse word among, you know, some people out there.
They're using it against people, and it's just really tragic.
You know?
We could mention a lot of names that are doing that, but we're not gonna do that.
We're gonna talk about the Bible.
John Riley
They've used, you know, Zionism against the Bible, people who love Israel and love the Jewish people.
So that's our topic.
You're the Bible teacher, and you're the pastor, and I'm gonna start off with a question.
What is Zionism?
Wayne Hilsden
Well, Zion is a reference to Jerusalem and sometimes beyond Jerusalem to the whole nation of Israel.
There is a place called Mount Zion as well.
The word Zion appears over a 150 times in the Bible.
So if you don't like Zionism, you're gonna...
You're not gonna like the Bible.
Wayne Hilsden
It's just gonna keep reminding you that Zion is a place, and this is a place where God has placed his name forever.
He's attached his very character and his promises to a place called Zion.
One could even say God is a Zionist, and that would not be blasphemy.
He clearly has called the nation of Israel to...
Who have been scattered for the most part for almost two millennia and bringing them back to Zion.
Wayne Hilsden
The amazing thing is we read in Romans chapter 11 where God is gonna save Israel.
These are the words.
All Israel shall be saved.
The deliverer will come from Zion.
He will take away ungodliness from Jacob, for this is my covenant with them when I take away their sins.
Wayne Hilsden
So it's a New Testament as well as an Old Testament concept, and it's attached to the salvation, the redemption of the Jewish people.
So it's not politics.
It's redemption.
It's it's a spiritual matter more than it is a political matter.
John Riley
You know, there is a a lot of people out there who will say that, you know, Zionism has an element of politics, and I don't know.
You know, you could argue a little bit about that.
But, biblically, let's unpack Zionism a little bit.
You know, what...
So if I'm a Zionist, what does that mean for John Ryan?
Wayne Hilsden
Well, as a...
For a Christian, Zionism is a belief that God makes covenant promises, and he's a covenant keeping God.
He doesn't lie.
He always tells the truth, and he has promised to bring back his scattered people whom he disciplined.
Israel's not perfect.
Wayne Hilsden
Jewish people are not perfect, but neither is any Christian on the planet.
And God said, there's a time and a season when I'm gonna bring you back to the land.
I would say that the modern return of the Jewish people really happened around 1897 and was envisioned and declared by a man by the name of Theodor Herzl in Europe, and, he believed that this was the time.
Now what's interesting is God used some pretty secular nonbelieving people to come up with this.
And he was offered Uganda as a as a potential location of the the new Israel, but the Jewish people didn't settle for Uganda.
Wayne Hilsden
They wanted the very same piece of land that was promised to their forefathers, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
Promised in Genesis chapter 15 and repeated many times.
And a promise that is to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and their offspring, the Jewish people.
Now some people say, well, yeah, God promised the land to Abraham, but Abraham had more than, one son, and one was not a Jewish son.
And, you know, so why why the Jewish people?
Wayne Hilsden
That's a good question.
God actually, by his own words, said, I choose you not because you're greater than any other country.
You're you're one of the least you're the least of the nations.
You know, God is like that.
He he chooses sometimes the the least likely to succeed so that when they succeed, he gets the glory.
Wayne Hilsden
He gets the credit.
Thankfully, he chose me.
One of those least likely, and it's all about God.
And it's about God proving that he's a promise keeper.
Now let me say this.
Wayne Hilsden
Ezekiel chapter 36 says that God says himself, I I care for my name.
My name has been besmirched in the nations.
As long as you are in the nations scattered, Israel, it's not looking good for me.
And so he says, I'm gonna sanctify my name.
How am I gonna do it?
Wayne Hilsden
I'm gonna bring you back to the land.
But he says your land, actually.
Now we know it's God's land ultimately, but he...
Many times, it says your land to the Jewish people.
Why is his name being besmirched or being shamed?
Wayne Hilsden
Well, if Israel...
If the Jewish people are not in the land that he promised them, it looks like he's a liar, or it looks like he's too weak that he couldn't preserve them in the land and and, you know, he just doesn't have the the power.
Or it looks like he...
His love is fair weather love.
It's...
Wayne Hilsden
He...
You know, he says, I will love you with an everlasting love.
Well, it doesn't look like much love to leave your people suffering in the nations.
So he said, I gotta I gotta bring you back, and it's about me.
It's about my glory.
Wayne Hilsden
It's not about you, o Israel.
It's about my holy name.
And the other beautiful thing about it is the return of the Jewish people to the land is not just to populate the land, not just to buy the real estate and live on a on a piece of land.
But he says in the very same chapter, Ezekiel 36, that after I bring you back to the land, I will pour...
I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean.
Wayne Hilsden
I will take out your heart of stone and replace it with a heart of flesh.
I will put my spirit within you, and you...
I will move you to follow my decrees.
So it's about salvation.
It's about redemption.
Wayne Hilsden
And so, again, it's just not about politics.
Israel is not a perfect nation.
If we wanna weigh Israel on the scale among all the nations of the earth, Israel is not doing too bad.
For a nation that is under such existential threats and needs to defend itself, I think they've done a great job.
I've lived in Israel for forty two years.
Wayne Hilsden
I've observed it up close.
No no nation's perfect, but Israel is under threat.
And, God is protecting the nation of Israel for his glory, his honor.
John Riley
You know, you just shared some amazing things that God is doing this, for his name.
You know, we we see that over and over, you know, in the scripture on on how he is performing his plan and purposes for the the Jewish people for the land of Israel for the glory of his name.
And the Jewish people, you know, coming into alignment to that as as they should be the the light to the to the to the world, to the nations as as the Bible says.
And when they're in the land, the land is blessed because they're fulfilling the plans and purposes of God.
When they're out of the land, things aren't so good, you know, for the land of Israel, but we're seeing, obviously, and we have seen the Jews come back to the land of Israel in fulfilling the plans and purposes that God has.
John Riley
And and is it an amazing, Wayne, that every time, you know, they try to divide the land, and, unfortunately, you know, some of the governmental authorities there have tried to divide the land of Israel, It just doesn't end good, you know, for the Jewish people and and for Israel.
Wayne Hilsden
Well, we are seeing a land that's blossoming like a rose.
We're seeing a land that is prospering.
And, again, it it just shows it must be God.
A nation the size of New Jersey and surrounded on all sides by people who would like to see them destroyed and yet thriving.
Really amazing even economically when you think, post October 7, the stock market has doubled in value in Israel.
Wayne Hilsden
The shekel has gotten very strong against the dollar.
You may be aware of that.
And there's just more confidence in Israel's future than we've seen in decades.
Quite remarkable.
It must be God.
John Riley
It is absolutely remarkable, and yet, you know, we we see forces out there that are using this word Zionism that we're talking about.
And you just explained a lot about that particular word, but we're seeing people out there using that word, you know, against...
Even against Christians and against Israel, the Jewish people.
Why do you think that is?
I mean, it's such a simple thing with what...
John Riley
How you do explain Zionism, and yet, you know, they're using that totally, you know, against Christians and and Jewish people.
Wayne Hilsden
I don't think you can explain it rationally.
Therefore, it's a spiritual matter.
Believe that it's satanic.
I believe that the devil himself believes he deserves the throne in Zion, that he is the Messiah.
He is God, and he knows his time is short.
Wayne Hilsden
He's gonna do everything he can to undermine God.
And if he can prove that God is a liar, doesn't keep his covenant promises, then he's gonna get more support.
And, unfortunately, using many voices today, they're probably not aware of the source of what's inspiring them to say these lies, but I believe there are demonic forces at work.
John Riley
We're talking to Wayne Hilston.
He cofounded King of Kings, and he's also the president of Firm, the fellowship of Israel related ministries.
Find out more about that ministry when you go to firmisrael.org.
They're gonna help you to know how to support different ministries there in Israel.
I wanna ask you because you're a pastor, and, you know, you had your heartbeat of what's going on in Israel.
John Riley
But, you know, you also have your heartbeat and understanding of what's happening here in The United States Of America as well.
Are we as a church doing a good job, you know, explaining the plans and and purposes of of Israel and the Jewish people within the church, or are we missing the mark on that?
How are we doing?
Wayne Hilsden
I I think it's actually silence more than trying to explain it.
I think most people aren't talking about it.
I I think from a pastoral perspective, as you said, I've been a pastor all these years.
You hope that when you preach, people don't walk out the back door and never come back.
You know, we went through COVID.
Wayne Hilsden
A lot of people left the church during that time.
Lots of return, but a lot of the core people in those churches have left.
And now they're they're watching church on on on their couch on television.
Pastors are very insecure these days.
They they know what it is to lose people, lose good friends, and support.
Wayne Hilsden
They're afraid to say anything controversial these days.
Now I just came from a meeting here down the hall where they just did a reveal of a professional scientific survey of evangelical Christians in America, and I was pleasantly surprised at the support that remains among evangelicals for Israel.
Now it is true that a younger demographic is less supportive of Israel.
On the other hand, a lot of younger people tend not to be conservative in their views.
And when they get older and they have a family and they realize the value...
Wayne Hilsden
Family values, they become more conservative.
So maybe we'll see more support even among those younger people a decade from now.
Who knows?
But it was very encouraging to see these new statistics.
And that post October 7 when Hamas invaded Israel, the numbers have not changed.
Wayne Hilsden
They...
It has not lessened.
So, yes, there are loud voices out there that are decrying Israel and Zionism, But are they really influencers?
Are they really, you know, making the mark that we imagine they might be having?
Not everybody is following those people, and I just believe that people who know the word of God, who read the scriptures, will have to be supportive of God's purposes for results all through the scriptures.
Wayne Hilsden
You can't avoid it.
John Riley
We want you to know as you're listening if you're a pastor or involved in church ministry, we are not bashing you and saying, you're doing an awful job.
You know, you're not teaching about Israel.
You're just you're just ignoring all of that.
We're not we're not saying that.
We are here on the radio and through this podcast challenging you to maybe consider doing more, digging, you know, deeper into this whole topic of of of the plans and purposes of of Israel and the Jewish people, maybe speaking about that, you know, from the pulpit.
John Riley
We just wanna challenge you because of the the lies that are out there.
It's not controversial.
It's the word of God.
So we're just challenging you with that.
And if a pastor's listening right now, Wayne, how how do they do that?
Wayne Hilsden
Well, I tend to like expositional preaching.
So in other words, you preach through a book of the Bible.
You you you preach verse by by verse, and when you preach in that way, you can't avoid certain scriptures.
When you only do topical preaching, you pick the subjects that are safe, the subjects that you are confident to preach.
But if you'll just preach through the through the Bible, you're gonna run into Israel everywhere.
Wayne Hilsden
You you...
And Jerusalem and Zion, and you can't...
You just can't help it.
So I would just challenge pastors to do that.
John Riley
That's a great idea.
That's a good suggestion.
So that's your challenge if you're you're a pastor.
Go ahead and just try to do that and be led by the Lord.
Don't be afraid to to, you know, talk about the Jewish people.
John Riley
Talk about Israel, modern day Israel, and what's going on, and even the current events of the Lord leads you to do that from your pulpit, then just put it all in a biblical context that's so important.
Because, Wayne, there are there are so many attacks out there right now when it comes to the Jewish people and Israel and the lies and the deception.
It's so hard to know what is right and what is wrong, but the Bible is our is our guideline.
That...
That's our that's our foundation.
John Riley
That's where we go to to find the truth of what...
What's happening.
Wayne Hilsden
And, you know, God is the same yesterday, today, and forever.
So he's not the...
One God in the Old Testament, one God in the New Testament.
And if we just understand that God is a covenant maker and a covenant keeper, we can't help but stand with his purposes for Israel.
Otherwise, we we have to wonder if he's faithful to us.
Wayne Hilsden
Maybe he'll change his mind about us.
He...
He's not gonna change his mind.
He's called us, and he...
He's gonna keep his promises.
John Riley
He always keeps his promises.
He is a covenant keeper, and that means toward us, and that also means towards Israel.
A lot of people think, oh, you know, it's...
That's all over.
The church has replaced Israel.
John Riley
Well, we, you know, we could talk a lot about all that replacement theology that's out there, but that's just a bunch of falsehood, lies, and deception.
And again, you have to go back to the word of God.
And, you know, you guys do that all the time at king of kings, and and I really do appreciate that.
And I'm always aware that there's a lot of people who are listening right now.
They're not pastors.
John Riley
They're just ordinary people like me, who are inundated with the falsehoods about Israel, the Jewish people.
You know, you get everything on social media, the news, all the new media out there all promoting all these lies.
What are we gonna do about this?
I mean, how are we gonna handle this?
How...
John Riley
What's our approach?
I know it's the word of God, but what's our approach to all of these things that are coming at us to just try to erase the plans and purposes of God, which they're not gonna be able to do in the in the word of God towards the Jewish people and and what what God has for the
Wayne Hilsden
land of Israel?
I'm gonna challenge everybody who's listening to speak up, to not be afraid to say what the word of God says.
And when there's a rally alongside Jewish people against antisemitism, attend those rallies, be part of that.
Surely, we're all against antisemitism.
So to stand against that is a godly thing.
Wayne Hilsden
So that's important.
I'm personally doing something about it, and I'm writing a book.
I didn't tell you this.
I'm writing a book called...
It's on Romans 11, and it's gonna be a verse by verse kind of approach to that.
Wayne Hilsden
And I've written the first draft, and I hope to have it done in a few months.
And it's really all about what we're talking about.
The...
What God is doing today in Israel and how the word of God undergirds what God is doing today and ultimately showing us that the day is coming when all Israel shall be saved.
This is another promise of God.
John Riley
How are people gonna get ahold of that book?
Wayne Hilsden
That's a good question.
I haven't gone to a publisher.
I...
I'm...
I'll be able to tell you in a few months.
John Riley
Well, just connect with, pastor Wayne and what they're doing.
And, again, great website.
You can reach out to him there.
Firmisrael.org.
Firmisrael.org.
John Riley
That's a really good gateway, for you to go to.
It's easy to remember.
Firmisrael.org.
And we're almost out of time.
I'm gonna ask you this question because firm Israel, you got a lot of young people that work for that organization and are part of that.
John Riley
You and I are a little bit older than them, but is God moving among young people when it comes to Israel?
Are we are we losing that battle?
Wayne Hilsden
Well, we're mostly winning the battle, to be honest.
I...
We are seeing growth in the body of believers in Israel.
When we went there, there were about 500 Jewish believers and maybe a thousand or 2,000 evangelical Arab believers.
Today, probably 30,000 Jewish believers in Jesus, 4,000 Arab evangelical believers, and Jews and Arabs working together.
Wayne Hilsden
And I would say the vast majority of those coming to faith are young people.
So that's a thrill for me as an old guy seeing next generations.
It's exciting.
John Riley
It is.
Wayne, I so appreciate what you guys do in all of your different ministries, and I just wanna encourage everybody once again to connect with you.
You guys believe in prayer.
You got a a prayer area, a tower, a summit, you know, where you you spend time praying for the nations, praying for Israel, praying for people.
You guys are strong believers in prayer.
John Riley
Your ministry is full of financial integrity.
So when people sow financially into what you're doing, they can do that with confidence.
You guys are, you know, audited and all of that good stuff, so they can do that confidently.
Firm Israel, I wanna encourage people to check that out as well because there's so many people who wanna give to a ministry in Israel, but they don't know what to do.
Firmisrael.org.wayne and his team, they vetted out a lot of different organizations and ministries there in Israel.
John Riley
And when you can check them out on that website, you will be able to sow financially into those ministries in confidence, and you'll have your choice.
There's there's, like, 80 of them, 80 different ministries that they have vetted out and that they trust there in Israel that they have partnerships with.
So I wanna encourage you to go to firmisrael.org.
Please do that if you're thinking about, you know, supporting a ministry in Israel.
Support king of kings.
John Riley
Support what Wayne is doing there.
Pray for them.
Oh my goodness.
A lot of ways to get involved there with your ministry, your organization, connecting with the Jewish people.
Wayne, we are so grateful for all that you do.
John Riley
Thank you for your work and your ministry.
Wayne Hilsden
Thank you, John.
Thanks for your voice.
John Riley
I wanna recommend that you support firm Israel, this incredible organization that is making such a huge difference there in the land of Israel.
And when you go to firmisrael.org, you're gonna find all of these links about other ministries that are happening there in the land of Israel, and you'll be able to feel confidence in supporting any of these ministries that God leads you to.
So please check out firmisrael.org.
Firmisrael.org.
I have people all the time ask me, John, what ministries in Israel can I trust?
John Riley
Well, this is a great gateway for you to go to.
Firmisrael.org.
That's the Middle East reports.
I'm John Reilly.
Get a podcast of this show wherever you get your podcasts.
John Riley
We're on all the major podcast platforms, and you can go to afr.net and send me an email.
Let me know you're listening.
John Riley
Welcome to the Middle East report, your connection to truthful reporting on Israel and The Middle East.
Each week, we connect you to the people, places in the land of Israel, and, of course, we bring you the truth of what's happening there in the land of Israel.
There's a lot of deception out there regarding Israel and the Jewish people.
You have to dig very deep to find the truth, and we try to do that every weekend here on American Family Radio.
You're gonna hear current events.
John Riley
You're gonna hear some Bible teaching about Israel and things related to that.
It's a show that has a lot of variety on it, and and I appreciate you listening to this edition of the Middle East report.
Today, we're gonna talk about the bible.
We're gonna set current events aside, and we are gonna talk about the word of God with a dear friend of mine who lives in Israel.
His name is doctor Wayne Hilson.
John Riley
He cofounded King of Kings in 1983.
It's a messiah centered congregation right there in the heart of Jerusalem.
This guy has done so much to bridge the the gap between Jews and Christians and and planting congregations there with with Jewish believers in in Yeshua there in the land of Israel.
He's got a master of divinity degree as well and a doctor of ministry degree.
Lot of degrees, but most of all, he's a dear friend of mine, and, he is also the founder and president of firm, the fellowship of Israel related ministries.
John Riley
We're gonna talk about that too.
We so appreciate, you know, what you do.
You you live there in the land of Israel.
You're a part of king of kings, and we've talked a lot, you know, over the last many, many years.
We've developed this relationship.
John Riley
And you've made a huge impact, you and your entire team.
I know it's not just you there in the land.
And I always know that there's some people who just don't know, you know, what king of kings is.
And and then I wanna talk a little bit about firm, and then we're gonna get into some Bible teaching today about a topic and a subject that's in the news.
But tell us about king of kings and then, of course, weave into that firm.
John Riley
I love that organization.
Wayne Hilsden
Yeah.
So my wife and I moved to Israel in 1983 from Canada, and we joined another Canadian couple, Jim and Kathy Cannella, and planted this church called King of Kings.
So started out as a little bible study in a small apartment, then it grew and developed.
Eventually, the Lord gave us an amazing facility.
We bought the largest movie theater in the city.
Wayne Hilsden
It's right on Jaffa Street downtown called The Pavilion.
Made it into a performing arts center, but it's really our sanctuary, but we rented out to the wider cultural community, to the army, to the police, to the high schools, to the city, the cultural community.
And, so we're right in the marketplace, and it's pretty pretty amazing.
And we bought a bunch of other properties in the same building.
And on the 21st Floor of the office tower, built a prayer center, which we called the summit, Jerusalem Summit.
Wayne Hilsden
And we see almost the entire city of Jerusalem.
And on a clear day, we can see Amman, Jordan, couple of buildings up in...
Right on the hill.
So we're in a really strategic location in the heart of Jerusalem.
So did that for many years and then handed off the baton to a younger man, twenty twenty two years younger than me, Chad Holland.
Wayne Hilsden
I'm still one of the pastors, and, King of Kings has grown.
We've got 22 congregations in Israel that are in our network and then seven abroad.
And I was just in Los Angeles to meet up with our pastors of king of kings LA, so that was fun.
So this was not in our plans.
It just...
Wayne Hilsden
Somehow the Lord has expanded the, the reach, and that's been exciting.
And then you mentioned FERM, fellowship of Israel related ministries.
So eleven years ago, Felt led to bring together a coalition of ministries that are based in Israel, all that are gospel centered, Jesus centered, and start up.
We invited 15 other ministries to come and be part of this coalition, not just to be unified, but to collaborate, actually work together and be part of the answer to Jesus' prayer in John 17 that we'd be one, that the world would know that the father sent him.
So we just believe the gospel has more power and persuasiveness when we love each other and work together, and it just shows that the gospel works.
Wayne Hilsden
And so now 81 ministries based in Israel are part of this coalition, and we we actually work together.
John Riley
And, you know, what's amazing about FIRM is that you vet these different ministries.
You you check them out because one of the main tenets of FERM, fellowship of Israel related ministries, is that you want people around the world and here in The United States to be able to support ministries in Israel confidently.
You want them to be able to do that and say, I am confident that I can support this ministry.
So you guys are filled with integrity, filled with financial integrity, all of that.
So you check out these ministries, and it's like the good housekeeping seal, if you will, on these ministries.
John Riley
So somebody can go to firm, and you're you're thinking into yourself, I would love to support a ministry or some organization in Israel.
God wants me to do that.
I have a heart for the Jewish people in the land of Israel.
And then you you can go to firmfirmisrael.org.
Wayne Hilsden
That's it.
Firmisrael.org.
John Riley
You go to firmisrael.org, and you'll see all these ministry opportunities.
And you can just choose, you know, whatever the Lord leads you to.
So I love this.
Wayne Hilsden
Yeah.
God's been blessing it, and we're really seeing impact.
And, you know, that's important too.
When we look at what ministries can bring to the table, we look at, okay.
What's the fruit?
Wayne Hilsden
You know?
It's not just a good newsletter or a good podcast, but it's, they're actually reaching people with the gospel, making disciples, doing kingdom work.
John Riley
Firmisrael.org.
Firmisrael.org.
I encourage you to check out that website because, Wayne, I get people asking me all the time, what is the good ministry that I can support there in Israel?
And I have some recommendations, but I always send them to firm because you guys have done the work.
People can go to that website, and they can choose a ministry that they wanna support confidently.
John Riley
So I encourage you to to go to firmisrael.org.
We wanna spend the rest of this show talking about a subject here, and you're...
You have such a pastoral heart.
You're still a pastor, and you love to teach.
And we're hearing a lot about Zionism these days.
John Riley
You know, like, Zionism has almost become like a curse word among, you know, some people out there.
They're using it against people, and it's just really tragic.
You know?
We could mention a lot of names that are doing that, but we're not gonna do that.
We're gonna talk about the Bible.
John Riley
They've used, you know, Zionism against the Bible, people who love Israel and love the Jewish people.
So that's our topic.
You're the Bible teacher, and you're the pastor, and I'm gonna start off with a question.
What is Zionism?
Wayne Hilsden
Well, Zion is a reference to Jerusalem and sometimes beyond Jerusalem to the whole nation of Israel.
There is a place called Mount Zion as well.
The word Zion appears over a 150 times in the Bible.
So if you don't like Zionism, you're gonna...
You're not gonna like the Bible.
Wayne Hilsden
It's just gonna keep reminding you that Zion is a place, and this is a place where God has placed his name forever.
He's attached his very character and his promises to a place called Zion.
One could even say God is a Zionist, and that would not be blasphemy.
He clearly has called the nation of Israel to...
Who have been scattered for the most part for almost two millennia and bringing them back to Zion.
Wayne Hilsden
The amazing thing is we read in Romans chapter 11 where God is gonna save Israel.
These are the words.
All Israel shall be saved.
The deliverer will come from Zion.
He will take away ungodliness from Jacob, for this is my covenant with them when I take away their sins.
Wayne Hilsden
So it's a New Testament as well as an Old Testament concept, and it's attached to the salvation, the redemption of the Jewish people.
So it's not politics.
It's redemption.
It's it's a spiritual matter more than it is a political matter.
John Riley
You know, there is a a lot of people out there who will say that, you know, Zionism has an element of politics, and I don't know.
You know, you could argue a little bit about that.
But, biblically, let's unpack Zionism a little bit.
You know, what...
So if I'm a Zionist, what does that mean for John Ryan?
Wayne Hilsden
Well, as a...
For a Christian, Zionism is a belief that God makes covenant promises, and he's a covenant keeping God.
He doesn't lie.
He always tells the truth, and he has promised to bring back his scattered people whom he disciplined.
Israel's not perfect.
Wayne Hilsden
Jewish people are not perfect, but neither is any Christian on the planet.
And God said, there's a time and a season when I'm gonna bring you back to the land.
I would say that the modern return of the Jewish people really happened around 1897 and was envisioned and declared by a man by the name of Theodor Herzl in Europe, and, he believed that this was the time.
Now what's interesting is God used some pretty secular nonbelieving people to come up with this.
And he was offered Uganda as a as a potential location of the the new Israel, but the Jewish people didn't settle for Uganda.
Wayne Hilsden
They wanted the very same piece of land that was promised to their forefathers, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
Promised in Genesis chapter 15 and repeated many times.
And a promise that is to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and their offspring, the Jewish people.
Now some people say, well, yeah, God promised the land to Abraham, but Abraham had more than, one son, and one was not a Jewish son.
And, you know, so why why the Jewish people?
Wayne Hilsden
That's a good question.
God actually, by his own words, said, I choose you not because you're greater than any other country.
You're you're one of the least you're the least of the nations.
You know, God is like that.
He he chooses sometimes the the least likely to succeed so that when they succeed, he gets the glory.
Wayne Hilsden
He gets the credit.
Thankfully, he chose me.
One of those least likely, and it's all about God.
And it's about God proving that he's a promise keeper.
Now let me say this.
Wayne Hilsden
Ezekiel chapter 36 says that God says himself, I I care for my name.
My name has been besmirched in the nations.
As long as you are in the nations scattered, Israel, it's not looking good for me.
And so he says, I'm gonna sanctify my name.
How am I gonna do it?
Wayne Hilsden
I'm gonna bring you back to the land.
But he says your land, actually.
Now we know it's God's land ultimately, but he...
Many times, it says your land to the Jewish people.
Why is his name being besmirched or being shamed?
Wayne Hilsden
Well, if Israel...
If the Jewish people are not in the land that he promised them, it looks like he's a liar, or it looks like he's too weak that he couldn't preserve them in the land and and, you know, he just doesn't have the the power.
Or it looks like he...
His love is fair weather love.
It's...
Wayne Hilsden
He...
You know, he says, I will love you with an everlasting love.
Well, it doesn't look like much love to leave your people suffering in the nations.
So he said, I gotta I gotta bring you back, and it's about me.
It's about my glory.
Wayne Hilsden
It's not about you, o Israel.
It's about my holy name.
And the other beautiful thing about it is the return of the Jewish people to the land is not just to populate the land, not just to buy the real estate and live on a on a piece of land.
But he says in the very same chapter, Ezekiel 36, that after I bring you back to the land, I will pour...
I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean.
Wayne Hilsden
I will take out your heart of stone and replace it with a heart of flesh.
I will put my spirit within you, and you...
I will move you to follow my decrees.
So it's about salvation.
It's about redemption.
Wayne Hilsden
And so, again, it's just not about politics.
Israel is not a perfect nation.
If we wanna weigh Israel on the scale among all the nations of the earth, Israel is not doing too bad.
For a nation that is under such existential threats and needs to defend itself, I think they've done a great job.
I've lived in Israel for forty two years.
Wayne Hilsden
I've observed it up close.
No no nation's perfect, but Israel is under threat.
And, God is protecting the nation of Israel for his glory, his honor.
John Riley
You know, you just shared some amazing things that God is doing this, for his name.
You know, we we see that over and over, you know, in the scripture on on how he is performing his plan and purposes for the the Jewish people for the land of Israel for the glory of his name.
And the Jewish people, you know, coming into alignment to that as as they should be the the light to the to the to the world, to the nations as as the Bible says.
And when they're in the land, the land is blessed because they're fulfilling the plans and purposes of God.
When they're out of the land, things aren't so good, you know, for the land of Israel, but we're seeing, obviously, and we have seen the Jews come back to the land of Israel in fulfilling the plans and purposes that God has.
John Riley
And and is it an amazing, Wayne, that every time, you know, they try to divide the land, and, unfortunately, you know, some of the governmental authorities there have tried to divide the land of Israel, It just doesn't end good, you know, for the Jewish people and and for Israel.
Wayne Hilsden
Well, we are seeing a land that's blossoming like a rose.
We're seeing a land that is prospering.
And, again, it it just shows it must be God.
A nation the size of New Jersey and surrounded on all sides by people who would like to see them destroyed and yet thriving.
Really amazing even economically when you think, post October 7, the stock market has doubled in value in Israel.
Wayne Hilsden
The shekel has gotten very strong against the dollar.
You may be aware of that.
And there's just more confidence in Israel's future than we've seen in decades.
Quite remarkable.
It must be God.
John Riley
It is absolutely remarkable, and yet, you know, we we see forces out there that are using this word Zionism that we're talking about.
And you just explained a lot about that particular word, but we're seeing people out there using that word, you know, against...
Even against Christians and against Israel, the Jewish people.
Why do you think that is?
I mean, it's such a simple thing with what...
John Riley
How you do explain Zionism, and yet, you know, they're using that totally, you know, against Christians and and Jewish people.
Wayne Hilsden
I don't think you can explain it rationally.
Therefore, it's a spiritual matter.
Believe that it's satanic.
I believe that the devil himself believes he deserves the throne in Zion, that he is the Messiah.
He is God, and he knows his time is short.
Wayne Hilsden
He's gonna do everything he can to undermine God.
And if he can prove that God is a liar, doesn't keep his covenant promises, then he's gonna get more support.
And, unfortunately, using many voices today, they're probably not aware of the source of what's inspiring them to say these lies, but I believe there are demonic forces at work.
John Riley
We're talking to Wayne Hilston.
He cofounded King of Kings, and he's also the president of Firm, the fellowship of Israel related ministries.
Find out more about that ministry when you go to firmisrael.org.
They're gonna help you to know how to support different ministries there in Israel.
I wanna ask you because you're a pastor, and, you know, you had your heartbeat of what's going on in Israel.
John Riley
But, you know, you also have your heartbeat and understanding of what's happening here in The United States Of America as well.
Are we as a church doing a good job, you know, explaining the plans and and purposes of of Israel and the Jewish people within the church, or are we missing the mark on that?
How are we doing?
Wayne Hilsden
I I think it's actually silence more than trying to explain it.
I think most people aren't talking about it.
I I think from a pastoral perspective, as you said, I've been a pastor all these years.
You hope that when you preach, people don't walk out the back door and never come back.
You know, we went through COVID.
Wayne Hilsden
A lot of people left the church during that time.
Lots of return, but a lot of the core people in those churches have left.
And now they're they're watching church on on on their couch on television.
Pastors are very insecure these days.
They they know what it is to lose people, lose good friends, and support.
Wayne Hilsden
They're afraid to say anything controversial these days.
Now I just came from a meeting here down the hall where they just did a reveal of a professional scientific survey of evangelical Christians in America, and I was pleasantly surprised at the support that remains among evangelicals for Israel.
Now it is true that a younger demographic is less supportive of Israel.
On the other hand, a lot of younger people tend not to be conservative in their views.
And when they get older and they have a family and they realize the value...
Wayne Hilsden
Family values, they become more conservative.
So maybe we'll see more support even among those younger people a decade from now.
Who knows?
But it was very encouraging to see these new statistics.
And that post October 7 when Hamas invaded Israel, the numbers have not changed.
Wayne Hilsden
They...
It has not lessened.
So, yes, there are loud voices out there that are decrying Israel and Zionism, But are they really influencers?
Are they really, you know, making the mark that we imagine they might be having?
Not everybody is following those people, and I just believe that people who know the word of God, who read the scriptures, will have to be supportive of God's purposes for results all through the scriptures.
Wayne Hilsden
You can't avoid it.
John Riley
We want you to know as you're listening if you're a pastor or involved in church ministry, we are not bashing you and saying, you're doing an awful job.
You know, you're not teaching about Israel.
You're just you're just ignoring all of that.
We're not we're not saying that.
We are here on the radio and through this podcast challenging you to maybe consider doing more, digging, you know, deeper into this whole topic of of of the plans and purposes of of Israel and the Jewish people, maybe speaking about that, you know, from the pulpit.
John Riley
We just wanna challenge you because of the the lies that are out there.
It's not controversial.
It's the word of God.
So we're just challenging you with that.
And if a pastor's listening right now, Wayne, how how do they do that?
Wayne Hilsden
Well, I tend to like expositional preaching.
So in other words, you preach through a book of the Bible.
You you you preach verse by by verse, and when you preach in that way, you can't avoid certain scriptures.
When you only do topical preaching, you pick the subjects that are safe, the subjects that you are confident to preach.
But if you'll just preach through the through the Bible, you're gonna run into Israel everywhere.
Wayne Hilsden
You you...
And Jerusalem and Zion, and you can't...
You just can't help it.
So I would just challenge pastors to do that.
John Riley
That's a great idea.
That's a good suggestion.
So that's your challenge if you're you're a pastor.
Go ahead and just try to do that and be led by the Lord.
Don't be afraid to to, you know, talk about the Jewish people.
John Riley
Talk about Israel, modern day Israel, and what's going on, and even the current events of the Lord leads you to do that from your pulpit, then just put it all in a biblical context that's so important.
Because, Wayne, there are there are so many attacks out there right now when it comes to the Jewish people and Israel and the lies and the deception.
It's so hard to know what is right and what is wrong, but the Bible is our is our guideline.
That...
That's our that's our foundation.
John Riley
That's where we go to to find the truth of what...
What's happening.
Wayne Hilsden
And, you know, God is the same yesterday, today, and forever.
So he's not the...
One God in the Old Testament, one God in the New Testament.
And if we just understand that God is a covenant maker and a covenant keeper, we can't help but stand with his purposes for Israel.
Otherwise, we we have to wonder if he's faithful to us.
Wayne Hilsden
Maybe he'll change his mind about us.
He...
He's not gonna change his mind.
He's called us, and he...
He's gonna keep his promises.
John Riley
He always keeps his promises.
He is a covenant keeper, and that means toward us, and that also means towards Israel.
A lot of people think, oh, you know, it's...
That's all over.
The church has replaced Israel.
John Riley
Well, we, you know, we could talk a lot about all that replacement theology that's out there, but that's just a bunch of falsehood, lies, and deception.
And again, you have to go back to the word of God.
And, you know, you guys do that all the time at king of kings, and and I really do appreciate that.
And I'm always aware that there's a lot of people who are listening right now.
They're not pastors.
John Riley
They're just ordinary people like me, who are inundated with the falsehoods about Israel, the Jewish people.
You know, you get everything on social media, the news, all the new media out there all promoting all these lies.
What are we gonna do about this?
I mean, how are we gonna handle this?
How...
John Riley
What's our approach?
I know it's the word of God, but what's our approach to all of these things that are coming at us to just try to erase the plans and purposes of God, which they're not gonna be able to do in the in the word of God towards the Jewish people and and what what God has for the
Wayne Hilsden
land of Israel?
I'm gonna challenge everybody who's listening to speak up, to not be afraid to say what the word of God says.
And when there's a rally alongside Jewish people against antisemitism, attend those rallies, be part of that.
Surely, we're all against antisemitism.
So to stand against that is a godly thing.
Wayne Hilsden
So that's important.
I'm personally doing something about it, and I'm writing a book.
I didn't tell you this.
I'm writing a book called...
It's on Romans 11, and it's gonna be a verse by verse kind of approach to that.
Wayne Hilsden
And I've written the first draft, and I hope to have it done in a few months.
And it's really all about what we're talking about.
The...
What God is doing today in Israel and how the word of God undergirds what God is doing today and ultimately showing us that the day is coming when all Israel shall be saved.
This is another promise of God.
John Riley
How are people gonna get ahold of that book?
Wayne Hilsden
That's a good question.
I haven't gone to a publisher.
I...
I'm...
I'll be able to tell you in a few months.
John Riley
Well, just connect with, pastor Wayne and what they're doing.
And, again, great website.
You can reach out to him there.
Firmisrael.org.
Firmisrael.org.
John Riley
That's a really good gateway, for you to go to.
It's easy to remember.
Firmisrael.org.
And we're almost out of time.
I'm gonna ask you this question because firm Israel, you got a lot of young people that work for that organization and are part of that.
John Riley
You and I are a little bit older than them, but is God moving among young people when it comes to Israel?
Are we are we losing that battle?
Wayne Hilsden
Well, we're mostly winning the battle, to be honest.
I...
We are seeing growth in the body of believers in Israel.
When we went there, there were about 500 Jewish believers and maybe a thousand or 2,000 evangelical Arab believers.
Today, probably 30,000 Jewish believers in Jesus, 4,000 Arab evangelical believers, and Jews and Arabs working together.
Wayne Hilsden
And I would say the vast majority of those coming to faith are young people.
So that's a thrill for me as an old guy seeing next generations.
It's exciting.
John Riley
It is.
Wayne, I so appreciate what you guys do in all of your different ministries, and I just wanna encourage everybody once again to connect with you.
You guys believe in prayer.
You got a a prayer area, a tower, a summit, you know, where you you spend time praying for the nations, praying for Israel, praying for people.
You guys are strong believers in prayer.
John Riley
Your ministry is full of financial integrity.
So when people sow financially into what you're doing, they can do that with confidence.
You guys are, you know, audited and all of that good stuff, so they can do that confidently.
Firm Israel, I wanna encourage people to check that out as well because there's so many people who wanna give to a ministry in Israel, but they don't know what to do.
Firmisrael.org.wayne and his team, they vetted out a lot of different organizations and ministries there in Israel.
John Riley
And when you can check them out on that website, you will be able to sow financially into those ministries in confidence, and you'll have your choice.
There's there's, like, 80 of them, 80 different ministries that they have vetted out and that they trust there in Israel that they have partnerships with.
So I wanna encourage you to go to firmisrael.org.
Please do that if you're thinking about, you know, supporting a ministry in Israel.
Support king of kings.
John Riley
Support what Wayne is doing there.
Pray for them.
Oh my goodness.
A lot of ways to get involved there with your ministry, your organization, connecting with the Jewish people.
Wayne, we are so grateful for all that you do.
John Riley
Thank you for your work and your ministry.
Wayne Hilsden
Thank you, John.
Thanks for your voice.
John Riley
I wanna recommend that you support firm Israel, this incredible organization that is making such a huge difference there in the land of Israel.
And when you go to firmisrael.org, you're gonna find all of these links about other ministries that are happening there in the land of Israel, and you'll be able to feel confidence in supporting any of these ministries that God leads you to.
So please check out firmisrael.org.
Firmisrael.org.
I have people all the time ask me, John, what ministries in Israel can I trust?
John Riley
Well, this is a great gateway for you to go to.
Firmisrael.org.
That's the Middle East reports.
I'm John Reilly.
Get a podcast of this show wherever you get your podcasts.
John Riley
We're on all the major podcast platforms, and you can go to afr.net and send me an email.
Let me know you're listening.
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