Introducing The stand Magazine and Its Mission to Influence Culture
Jeff Chamblee Coming up today, Rebecca Davis and Elaine Bunn with the Stand Magazine will tell us about ways our readers are influencing the world around them.
Elaine Bunn They were preparing for a study on biblical citizenship. They chose to use one of our issues of the magazine to guide and direct that study.
Rebecca Davis We do all this with the purpose of informing, equipping, and activating individuals and families to take a stand and to change the American culture.
Jeff Chamblee Then Arne Cole of Back to the Bible will give us his take on what some people say is a revival
Arne Cole in the US we have a bunch of people at the doorstep, either of the church or of a relationship, and they're just waiting to make the next step.
Jeff Chamblee It's the weekend of October 10th and 11th. I'm Jeff Chamblee, and this is the stand Radio.
Well, hello and welcome to the program for this weekend. It's great to have you along as listeners to afr. You're certainly aware of some of the most important issues in the world related to faith, family and culture. But you may not know that the Stand Magazine, which is the official publication of American Family association, is a great way to introduce others in your circle of influence about the ways that Christians can be salt and light in the culture. How can you get the magazine and use it to help others? With me to talk about that is Rebecca Davis, editor of the Stand magazine, along with Elaine Bunn, our associate editor. Welcome to both of you. Hello, Rebecca, we'll start with you. a few weeks ago, I had the privilege of meeting with many of our supporters in Iowa. Most, of them read the Stand magazine. M. It was great to see that a lot of them, though, were not aware that there is a group subscription or a church option that's actually available because they want others to know about the magazine. So if you would break that down for us. What is a church subscription and how does that happen?
Elaine Bunn Sure. Yes.
Rebecca Davis So we have, just like you said, something that is called a bulk subscription available, which is for churches and groups. And so you get multiple copies of the magazine for a discounted cost or donation. And the suggested donation really varies depending on how many a church may want or a group may want. And so there is a donation scale based on that. And so we really just tailor it to fit the church's or the group's needs. So if a pastor wants to make the magazine available to his congregation, then and he can call AFA and ask about a church subscription, and he can say, I would like to provide 50 copies for my church family. And then they will walk him through how, how that needs to happen. So they will set it up for him, they'll walk him through the process. And then we actually mail those subscriptions from here at our headquarters here in house. They are mailed directly to the churches or the groups from here. Another option for the group or bulk subscription is you don't necessarily have to be a group or a church. We do have some individuals who are very serious about making a difference in our culture. And so they will sign up for one of these bulk subscriptions themselves and then they will pass them out in their neighborhoods or in their local communities. Put them in doctor's offices wherever they have the opportunity to share the magazine.
Jeff Chamblee Very good. So what, do you have the phone number that people can call?
Rebecca Davis Yes, I sure do. So if you're interested in setting up a group subscription or a church subscription, ah, you can call 662-844-5036 and you can dial extension 211 or you can just ask to speak with someone in donor support. And so that is, that's the key, is you want to get to someone in donor support because they know how to handle all of the details of setting one of these plans up.
Jeff Chamblee Very, very good.
I think, there's so many people in our churches that would like to know about the kind of information that we write about, but they simply don't have access to it. So a group subscription, a bulk subscription is a great way to do that. So we'll put that phone number on our podcast page and you can get that and we'll mention it again here in just a few moments. Elaine, you, spoke to a group of AFA supporters just last week. What was on their minds when you talked with them in terms of the kinds of issues that the Stand magazine covers?
Elaine Bunn Yes, we were very fortunate this last year for members of our Stand team to travel to different parts around the country, from Texas to Georgia to Iowa. And then, last week in our hometown of Tupelo, it was nice to meet with some supporters and readers of the magazine. And even though we are contacted, whether it be email, phone, so nice to put a face to the readers as well and get to know them. And one of the main things that we heard at each of these events was with great responsibility on our part, is the trust that they put in our content to inform them to be aware. and that that content is, vetted strongly, that we do our research, our writers and our entire team. And so we're grateful for that support. But some of the main things that they've talked about. number one is how they use our magazine not just to inform themselves, but we hear often stories of people telling us, I, dropped one on the doctor's office table in the waiting room or recently I had a gentleman share. He picked up one in a Honda manufacturing plant and then dropped one in a Honda dealership. So we're, we're grateful if you are a Stand supporter of ours and a reader, please share, please do pass it on. Others will say I dropped it in my co workers area. And we get, then we can discuss those topics. So we're really grateful for that. But one of the most important things that we've heard of quite a bit this year is that with the citizenship, Biblical citizenship and how do we, how do we approach that? a number of our magazines, issues will cover some of our work through AFA Action, especially right now with I Voter Guide with the upcoming elections. And those are really important on the minds of our readers and supporters right now as well. So that's been one of our number one topics that we've heard over the last month or two.
Jeff Chamblee Elaine, you had was there a church and a pastor that was using the magazine on like a Wednesday night
Elaine Bunn or something like that? Yes, I had a gentleman contact us. And they were preparing for a study on biblical citizenship. And when they met with their education team, instead of using a curriculum that was already produced that they trusted, of course they wanted to make sure we knew that they chose to use one of our issues of the magazine to guide and direct that study.
Jeff Chamblee Yeah, that's great. What a resource. Rebecca, for people who are listening that don't know about the Stand magazine, they don't get it.
Tell us a little bit about what the magazine contains that readers will find helpful as they live in a culture that so desperately needs the light of Christ.
Rebecca Davis So each month as we prepare what's going to be in the magazine, we do approach those topics with a lot of thought and a lot of care and, and with prayer because we want to be sure that what we're presenting to them is Christ centered and kingdom focused. And so a lot of those topics, or the majority of those topics have to do with different issues that are going on in the culture right now. And we offer a biblical perspective or a biblical response to those issues or to those topics. Some things that come to mind, we try to offer encouragement and insight for parents and grandparents as they're navigating the world of raising children and even grandparents as now they have raised their own children and are now looking to their grandchildren and how they can be an active, part of their lives. We are constantly providing insight on the ever changing world of technology and all that's going on there. And then we also offer, pieces that just help foster spiritual growth. Just some encouragement pieces and some pieces that take scripture and dialogue, dive deep into the scriptures, and then all of that with the purpose of offering our readers practical ways to take a stand in the culture. And that's really what it comes down to, is we do all this with the purpose of informing, equipping, and activating individuals and families to take a stand and to change the American culture.
Jeff Chamblee That's really the distinctive, I think, about this magazine with, because it equips you with now. Okay, you know this. What can you do?
Elaine Bunn Right?
Jeff Chamblee And so hence the name the stand.
Elaine Bunn Right.
Jeff Chamblee All right. So if you'd like to, look into a bulk subscription, that phone number is area code 662-844-5036, extension 21 1. And you can call that number and simply ask for donor support. Rebecca Davis and Elaine Bunn of the stand magazine, thank you so much for being with us.
Rebecca Davis Thank you.
Jeff Chamblee Is America experiencing spiritual revival? Some people point to an increase in Bible sales, church attendance, and even the popularity of Bible themed TV shows to say that we are in a revival. But one organization is pointing to data from its own 2025 survey. Christian belief is increasingly symbolic rather than behavioral. We're going to talk about that with Dr. Arnie Cole. He is the CEO of Back to the Bible and chief research officer of the center for Scripture Absorption. As his work goes with Back to the Bible, his mission is to help Christians experience significant and enduring spiritual breakthroughs. Dr. Cole, it's great to have you with us today.
Arne Cole Thanks for having me on the program.
Jeff Chamblee In your 2025 State of Christianity in America study, you analyzed just over 6,000 US adults with an index that measures scripture absorption and life transformation. What did you find in that survey?
Arne Cole You know, it was a tremendously interesting survey. because what we found is most people in the United States know who Jesus is. They know that he died for their sins. They even know about the Trinity. They pray. But when it comes to actually life change or, following Jesus, It's only about 33% of people in the United States actually would be, Christ followers.
Jeff Chamblee Wow, those are, those are significant numbers. so people are familiar with some of the basic Christian doctrines that you and I would agree with. Most churches would agree with, but they're not living, that out. you use the term spiritual formation in your work, and for the sake of our discussion, would you define that for us? What is spiritual formation?
Arne Cole So we talk a lot about spiritual formation and spiritual growth. So the easiest thing, I define spiritual growth is moving closer to Jesus today than you were yesterday. Okay. I mean, it. So it, you know, Jesus takes us where we are and then helps us move along. And then spiritual formation is kind of the sum total of all of those days moving, together. So, you know, what we're looking for is, is there some kind of noticeable change in an individual's life? And that's life transformation that only Jesus Christ can bring, if that makes sense.
Jeff Chamblee Yeah, that's a good definition. So you're looking at more than religious activity, church attendance, the numbers that so many polls measure. You're actually measuring how people live and make choices based on faith in Christ. What are some of the particular behavioral changes that you're looking for?
Arne Cole What we're looking for is, more than just head knowledge. Okay. And. And that's why in our survey, we ask questions, do you know who Jesus is? And the answer is yes. Are you following Jesus? and the answer is, most of the time, no. Which means, you know, have I changed my behavior? Am I reaching out to other people? Do I talk to people about my faith? And no, it's not a workspace, kind of messed up salvation that we're trying to get across. What we're just trying to do is, did Jesus actually change your behavior? And you're the expert on yourself. You know, you know, what's changed and what hasn't. But a lot of us Americans, I think it's like 25%, especially of the younger crowd, don't even believe they've ever sinned. Well, which is bizarre because you know who Jesus is. Okay. You know, he came to save us, but then you feel you don't. You've never sinned.
Jeff Chamblee Yeah, I think you're hitting it such an important point. And I mean, this is just biblical doctrine when you get down to it. I mean, Jesus himself said, why do you call me Lord and don't do the things that I say? And so you're really hitting it something, I think, that needs to be emphasized over and over again, that when, when we meet Christ, I mean, look at the scripture. Those that met Christ were not the same. Some hated him, but they were never the same when they truly encountered Christ. And I so appreciate the work of back to the Bible in focusing on deep spiritual transformation, what exactly is the data showing in terms of a revival here in the United States?
Arne Cole I don't want to be a Debbie Downer here, okay? And because there are some good things that are happening. but as, as I've said so many times, you can't have a revival and have a discipleship crisis in America at the same time. So we can prove that most Christ followers don't mentor or disciple anyone. Okay? And this is by their, you know, our studies that we've done for years. so you have that going on, and then you have these claims of revival. Well, they're counting, baptisms, church attendance, all of these things. they're measuring maybe the ministry or the church, but they're not measuring the individual. So when you look at life transformation, we start seeing that, no, there's not a revival going on. Maybe. Maybe there's an awakening, okay? Or what I would say, a thaw in the harvest. So people, especially guys, are, more open to following Jesus. But here again, you have our baseline information. They already know who Jesus is. So basically what we see is we have a bunch of people now at the doorstep, okay, either of the church or of a relationship, and they're just waiting to make the next step. And, so, yes, there's some good signs, but to say that there's a revival, it's far too premature. And then there's some nuances in the data. Younger women are actually, still falling away from following Jesus.
So there's just too many indications that we've got a lot of work to do ahead of us if there's going to be a revival, if we are
Jeff Chamblee ever to get to a revival. Are you saying that it won't happen from the top down? In other words, there's going to have to be a renewal of the individual before we can experience something with a wider circle. Is that right?
Arne Cole Oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah. And, it's. It's almost like the concept, each one win one, you know? so people in relationship with other believers being discipled. I've said for a long time I'm a behaviorist, though, not a theologian, so don't go crazy on me. But, there's no evangelism, practically speaking, there's no evangelism without discipleship. So, classic example. You may, baptize 5,000 people at the beach on one Sunday. And that's awesome. Okay? I'm not knocking that. And. And maybe some of those are new believers, and some of those are Rededicated, all of that is, is great. But if you're counting that as, as revival, I would say let's look back a year now, you know, from the time people were baptized and see what's happened is their discipleship. Because practically speaking, and I know the guy on the cross went to heaven, but that was Jesus on the cross with him and he knew his heart. But rule of thumb, there can't be evangelism without discipleship from a practical standpoint.
Jeff Chamblee So what would you credit to say that they're increasing in Bible sales? More men seem to be going to church. There's a lot of different factors. what is driving some of those things in your opinion?
Arne Cole So this is touchy. The Bible sales went up last year. Now they've come down. And my thing that I've said since I've been been researching all of this stuff for the last 20 years, just because you buy a Bible doesn't mean anything except to the people that get the sales for the Bible. You got to open it. Okay. So that, that's kind of problematic with the Bible. And then the second part, and this gets kind of controversial. There's one group of researchers that say, saying all ah, kinds of Gen Z are coming back, men especially are coming back and all of this. And then there's another group who have looked at this in detail and what they're saying is m. Gen Z Republicans are coming back to church. And it's more of a political kind of reaction after the Kirk tragedy and all of that. But it's not to say Gen Z males are coming back is really, you're just watching politics in action.
Jeff Chamblee Your mission at Back to the Bible is to is help bring about these individuals and corporate changes in churches. Tell us about the work of Back to the Bible and specifically how you encourage people to engage in discipleship of other believers.
Arne Cole So first, and this is the research site on spiritual formation that we do worldwide. But with our focus on the U.S. I was shocked that the people that know Jesus the most have the most resources. The over 50 crowd are the least likely to disciple or mentor anyone. And women are even the very worst, the most significant difference of anybody in the population of not mentoring and discipling anyone. So part of what we do is we don't throw those numbers at people. Of course we try to encourage people to take a look at their thought process, relying on I'm in. You know, it all started with the over 50 crowd. Billy Graham. Let Billy do it. You know, let's get everybody out, to, to Billy, you know, and, and, and so we, we try. We, we work from the concept. We don't, you know, Billy Graham did great. You know, all of these things were good, but that, it's. Each one win one. That's really the victory is where you become involved with someone else. And it's a big challenge for us at Back to the Bible, because you're dealing with people who know the Bible inside and out. A lot of our people, especially that come to us, are mature believers. They know what the Great Commission is and they know it applies to them. But in their behavior, it doesn't translate. It's just fascinating.
Jeff Chamblee Before we go today, I'd like you to walk us through, some of the initial steps of discipleship, because that's kind of a major theme of our discussion today. So if someone is listening and they are convicted, I'm not discipling the way that I should. Can you give us some first steps to begin to engage in what it means to actually bring another believer on and help them to grow in the faith?
Arne Cole So if you've never talked to anyone about your faith, okay, what we strongly encourage people to do is to get out their Bibles, you know, read it every day. And, and we have this little thing. You receive. You read what the Bible has to say, you receive it into your heart, you reflect on it, okay? But then there's a fourth step, and that is you reveal it to someone else. So what we want to do is to help you get a lifestyle of your. You engage in the Bible, you're hearing from the Lord, and you just make a step to talk to someone else about what you. And that's what we call Scripture absorption. What you learned today, what you absorbed today, and you can practice that on your grandkids, on your kids, on. On believers, so that it becomes a part of your DNA. So, and that takes a couple months for people to kind of get used to, and it's what the Holy Spirit kind of convicts you of. Then as we go, we start asking people to pray for opportunities just for the person that, you know. and just by doing that, becoming aware of what opportunities you have just to talk to someone about the Lord, and then it's, you know, of course, focus on. On somebody, not as a project, but, you know, we're going to walk through this scripture together. So it's, it's really relational, one person at a time, and it's very time consuming. Okay.
And that's a caution Back to, you know, are we in a revival? Is, these things take time. And so the more hype and the more marketing, you just have to focus on yourself and that other person you're trying to disciple. And because it takes a while, it just doesn't happen overnight.
Jeff Chamblee Yeah, that's really good. I think most people, when they hear. Are you discipling someone? what comes into my mind is that gathering five people around the table, opening it up and doing an extensive Bible study and walking people through doctrine after doctrine. And I love the way that you describe that because it's very natural. It comes out of your own quiet time. Here's one truth that I found out today. Let me share that with someone in my own family, maybe a grandchild, as you said, or a co worker, and then gradually expanding from there. So that's a very, very encouraging mod in your work at Back to the Bible. What have you heard from people who have gone from no discipleship to actually beginning to walk down that road and help other believers along the path of following Jesus?
Arne Cole So it's like that old adage about when you do something for someone else or try to teach someone else, you learn so much more.
I mean, the stories that, I've heard personally with, people, how it helps the people, you know, and some people have said they've helped people come to know the Lord, you know, and they know it's the Lord that saves people, not them, but their own experience. And becoming involved with people, has really been a big lifesaver. And, you know, the other side benefit is we're a very lonely society. And if you're sharing the love of Jesus, it's pretty hard to be a lonely person, you know, or grumpy. you know, as you get older, you get grumpy. Well, if you're sharing the love of Jesus, it just, it takes your life to a whole new dimension. Yeah.
Jeff Chamblee what have you experienced as far as how discipleship is related to solidifying your own walk with Christ? What does it do for a believer to vocalize to other people what he's found in the scripture for their own spiritual growth?
Arne Cole What it has done for me is it helps me focus daily on Jesus.
okay, you know, you can get, you can read, you can sit and, you know, take in all this scripture. But then living it out, it takes it to a whole different dimension that is really far more exciting than this inward, spiritual kind of, routine that, most people have.
Jeff Chamblee Dr. Arnie Cole has been our guest today. He is the CEO of Back to the Bible and chief research officer of the center for Scripture Absorption. The website is backtothebible.org backtothebible.org you'll find a host of resources, including, a, ah, YouTube channel, many articles, and a bookstore where you can find Dr. Cole's latest book, The Over 50 Advantage, by our guest along with Rick Lawrence. That's all at backtothebible.org Dr. Cole, this has been a great conversation today. Thank you for your encouragement and for helping us understand how important discipleship is as we bring others along in following the Lord Jesus. Thanks for being with us.
Arne Cole Well, thank you. Thank you for having me, Jeff.
Jeff Chamblee And coming up next week, staff writer Matthew White will tell us what he's learned about the origin of Halloween and how the Bible can guide the way that we think about it. Today's program is available as a [email protected] A free trial subscription to the stand magazine is available to you when you visit thestand.net thanks for listening and join us again next time on the stand Radio.
Introducing The stand Magazine and Its Mission to Influence Culture
Jeff Chamblee Coming up today, Rebecca Davis and Elaine Bunn with the Stand Magazine will tell us about ways our readers are influencing the world around them.
Elaine Bunn They were preparing for a study on biblical citizenship. They chose to use one of our issues of the magazine to guide and direct that study.
Rebecca Davis We do all this with the purpose of informing, equipping, and activating individuals and families to take a stand and to change the American culture.
Jeff Chamblee Then Arne Cole of Back to the Bible will give us his take on what some people say is a revival
Arne Cole in the US we have a bunch of people at the doorstep, either of the church or of a relationship, and they're just waiting to make the next step.
Jeff Chamblee It's the weekend of October 10th and 11th. I'm Jeff Chamblee, and this is the stand Radio.
Well, hello and welcome to the program for this weekend. It's great to have you along as listeners to afr. You're certainly aware of some of the most important issues in the world related to faith, family and culture. But you may not know that the Stand Magazine, which is the official publication of American Family association, is a great way to introduce others in your circle of influence about the ways that Christians can be salt and light in the culture. How can you get the magazine and use it to help others? With me to talk about that is Rebecca Davis, editor of the Stand magazine, along with Elaine Bunn, our associate editor. Welcome to both of you. Hello, Rebecca, we'll start with you. a few weeks ago, I had the privilege of meeting with many of our supporters in Iowa. Most, of them read the Stand magazine. M. It was great to see that a lot of them, though, were not aware that there is a group subscription or a church option that's actually available because they want others to know about the magazine. So if you would break that down for us. What is a church subscription and how does that happen?
Elaine Bunn Sure. Yes.
Rebecca Davis So we have, just like you said, something that is called a bulk subscription available, which is for churches and groups. And so you get multiple copies of the magazine for a discounted cost or donation. And the suggested donation really varies depending on how many a church may want or a group may want. And so there is a donation scale based on that. And so we really just tailor it to fit the church's or the group's needs. So if a pastor wants to make the magazine available to his congregation, then and he can call AFA and ask about a church subscription, and he can say, I would like to provide 50 copies for my church family. And then they will walk him through how, how that needs to happen. So they will set it up for him, they'll walk him through the process. And then we actually mail those subscriptions from here at our headquarters here in house. They are mailed directly to the churches or the groups from here. Another option for the group or bulk subscription is you don't necessarily have to be a group or a church. We do have some individuals who are very serious about making a difference in our culture. And so they will sign up for one of these bulk subscriptions themselves and then they will pass them out in their neighborhoods or in their local communities. Put them in doctor's offices wherever they have the opportunity to share the magazine.
Jeff Chamblee Very good. So what, do you have the phone number that people can call?
Rebecca Davis Yes, I sure do. So if you're interested in setting up a group subscription or a church subscription, ah, you can call 662-844-5036 and you can dial extension 211 or you can just ask to speak with someone in donor support. And so that is, that's the key, is you want to get to someone in donor support because they know how to handle all of the details of setting one of these plans up.
Jeff Chamblee Very, very good.
I think, there's so many people in our churches that would like to know about the kind of information that we write about, but they simply don't have access to it. So a group subscription, a bulk subscription is a great way to do that. So we'll put that phone number on our podcast page and you can get that and we'll mention it again here in just a few moments. Elaine, you, spoke to a group of AFA supporters just last week. What was on their minds when you talked with them in terms of the kinds of issues that the Stand magazine covers?
Elaine Bunn Yes, we were very fortunate this last year for members of our Stand team to travel to different parts around the country, from Texas to Georgia to Iowa. And then, last week in our hometown of Tupelo, it was nice to meet with some supporters and readers of the magazine. And even though we are contacted, whether it be email, phone, so nice to put a face to the readers as well and get to know them. And one of the main things that we heard at each of these events was with great responsibility on our part, is the trust that they put in our content to inform them to be aware. and that that content is, vetted strongly, that we do our research, our writers and our entire team. And so we're grateful for that support. But some of the main things that they've talked about. number one is how they use our magazine not just to inform themselves, but we hear often stories of people telling us, I, dropped one on the doctor's office table in the waiting room or recently I had a gentleman share. He picked up one in a Honda manufacturing plant and then dropped one in a Honda dealership. So we're, we're grateful if you are a Stand supporter of ours and a reader, please share, please do pass it on. Others will say I dropped it in my co workers area. And we get, then we can discuss those topics. So we're really grateful for that. But one of the most important things that we've heard of quite a bit this year is that with the citizenship, Biblical citizenship and how do we, how do we approach that? a number of our magazines, issues will cover some of our work through AFA Action, especially right now with I Voter Guide with the upcoming elections. And those are really important on the minds of our readers and supporters right now as well. So that's been one of our number one topics that we've heard over the last month or two.
Jeff Chamblee Elaine, you had was there a church and a pastor that was using the magazine on like a Wednesday night
Elaine Bunn or something like that? Yes, I had a gentleman contact us. And they were preparing for a study on biblical citizenship. And when they met with their education team, instead of using a curriculum that was already produced that they trusted, of course they wanted to make sure we knew that they chose to use one of our issues of the magazine to guide and direct that study.
Jeff Chamblee Yeah, that's great. What a resource. Rebecca, for people who are listening that don't know about the Stand magazine, they don't get it.
Tell us a little bit about what the magazine contains that readers will find helpful as they live in a culture that so desperately needs the light of Christ.
Rebecca Davis So each month as we prepare what's going to be in the magazine, we do approach those topics with a lot of thought and a lot of care and, and with prayer because we want to be sure that what we're presenting to them is Christ centered and kingdom focused. And so a lot of those topics, or the majority of those topics have to do with different issues that are going on in the culture right now. And we offer a biblical perspective or a biblical response to those issues or to those topics. Some things that come to mind, we try to offer encouragement and insight for parents and grandparents as they're navigating the world of raising children and even grandparents as now they have raised their own children and are now looking to their grandchildren and how they can be an active, part of their lives. We are constantly providing insight on the ever changing world of technology and all that's going on there. And then we also offer, pieces that just help foster spiritual growth. Just some encouragement pieces and some pieces that take scripture and dialogue, dive deep into the scriptures, and then all of that with the purpose of offering our readers practical ways to take a stand in the culture. And that's really what it comes down to, is we do all this with the purpose of informing, equipping, and activating individuals and families to take a stand and to change the American culture.
Jeff Chamblee That's really the distinctive, I think, about this magazine with, because it equips you with now. Okay, you know this. What can you do?
Elaine Bunn Right?
Jeff Chamblee And so hence the name the stand.
Elaine Bunn Right.
Jeff Chamblee All right. So if you'd like to, look into a bulk subscription, that phone number is area code 662-844-5036, extension 21 1. And you can call that number and simply ask for donor support. Rebecca Davis and Elaine Bunn of the stand magazine, thank you so much for being with us.
Rebecca Davis Thank you.
Jeff Chamblee Is America experiencing spiritual revival? Some people point to an increase in Bible sales, church attendance, and even the popularity of Bible themed TV shows to say that we are in a revival. But one organization is pointing to data from its own 2025 survey. Christian belief is increasingly symbolic rather than behavioral. We're going to talk about that with Dr. Arnie Cole. He is the CEO of Back to the Bible and chief research officer of the center for Scripture Absorption. As his work goes with Back to the Bible, his mission is to help Christians experience significant and enduring spiritual breakthroughs. Dr. Cole, it's great to have you with us today.
Arne Cole Thanks for having me on the program.
Jeff Chamblee In your 2025 State of Christianity in America study, you analyzed just over 6,000 US adults with an index that measures scripture absorption and life transformation. What did you find in that survey?
Arne Cole You know, it was a tremendously interesting survey. because what we found is most people in the United States know who Jesus is. They know that he died for their sins. They even know about the Trinity. They pray. But when it comes to actually life change or, following Jesus, It's only about 33% of people in the United States actually would be, Christ followers.
Jeff Chamblee Wow, those are, those are significant numbers. so people are familiar with some of the basic Christian doctrines that you and I would agree with. Most churches would agree with, but they're not living, that out. you use the term spiritual formation in your work, and for the sake of our discussion, would you define that for us? What is spiritual formation?
Arne Cole So we talk a lot about spiritual formation and spiritual growth. So the easiest thing, I define spiritual growth is moving closer to Jesus today than you were yesterday. Okay. I mean, it. So it, you know, Jesus takes us where we are and then helps us move along. And then spiritual formation is kind of the sum total of all of those days moving, together. So, you know, what we're looking for is, is there some kind of noticeable change in an individual's life? And that's life transformation that only Jesus Christ can bring, if that makes sense.
Jeff Chamblee Yeah, that's a good definition. So you're looking at more than religious activity, church attendance, the numbers that so many polls measure. You're actually measuring how people live and make choices based on faith in Christ. What are some of the particular behavioral changes that you're looking for?
Arne Cole What we're looking for is, more than just head knowledge. Okay. And. And that's why in our survey, we ask questions, do you know who Jesus is? And the answer is yes. Are you following Jesus? and the answer is, most of the time, no. Which means, you know, have I changed my behavior? Am I reaching out to other people? Do I talk to people about my faith? And no, it's not a workspace, kind of messed up salvation that we're trying to get across. What we're just trying to do is, did Jesus actually change your behavior? And you're the expert on yourself. You know, you know, what's changed and what hasn't. But a lot of us Americans, I think it's like 25%, especially of the younger crowd, don't even believe they've ever sinned. Well, which is bizarre because you know who Jesus is. Okay. You know, he came to save us, but then you feel you don't. You've never sinned.
Jeff Chamblee Yeah, I think you're hitting it such an important point. And I mean, this is just biblical doctrine when you get down to it. I mean, Jesus himself said, why do you call me Lord and don't do the things that I say? And so you're really hitting it something, I think, that needs to be emphasized over and over again, that when, when we meet Christ, I mean, look at the scripture. Those that met Christ were not the same. Some hated him, but they were never the same when they truly encountered Christ. And I so appreciate the work of back to the Bible in focusing on deep spiritual transformation, what exactly is the data showing in terms of a revival here in the United States?
Arne Cole I don't want to be a Debbie Downer here, okay? And because there are some good things that are happening. but as, as I've said so many times, you can't have a revival and have a discipleship crisis in America at the same time. So we can prove that most Christ followers don't mentor or disciple anyone. Okay? And this is by their, you know, our studies that we've done for years. so you have that going on, and then you have these claims of revival. Well, they're counting, baptisms, church attendance, all of these things. they're measuring maybe the ministry or the church, but they're not measuring the individual. So when you look at life transformation, we start seeing that, no, there's not a revival going on. Maybe. Maybe there's an awakening, okay? Or what I would say, a thaw in the harvest. So people, especially guys, are, more open to following Jesus. But here again, you have our baseline information. They already know who Jesus is. So basically what we see is we have a bunch of people now at the doorstep, okay, either of the church or of a relationship, and they're just waiting to make the next step. And, so, yes, there's some good signs, but to say that there's a revival, it's far too premature. And then there's some nuances in the data. Younger women are actually, still falling away from following Jesus.
So there's just too many indications that we've got a lot of work to do ahead of us if there's going to be a revival, if we are
Jeff Chamblee ever to get to a revival. Are you saying that it won't happen from the top down? In other words, there's going to have to be a renewal of the individual before we can experience something with a wider circle. Is that right?
Arne Cole Oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah. And, it's. It's almost like the concept, each one win one, you know? so people in relationship with other believers being discipled. I've said for a long time I'm a behaviorist, though, not a theologian, so don't go crazy on me. But, there's no evangelism, practically speaking, there's no evangelism without discipleship. So, classic example. You may, baptize 5,000 people at the beach on one Sunday. And that's awesome. Okay? I'm not knocking that. And. And maybe some of those are new believers, and some of those are Rededicated, all of that is, is great. But if you're counting that as, as revival, I would say let's look back a year now, you know, from the time people were baptized and see what's happened is their discipleship. Because practically speaking, and I know the guy on the cross went to heaven, but that was Jesus on the cross with him and he knew his heart. But rule of thumb, there can't be evangelism without discipleship from a practical standpoint.
Jeff Chamblee So what would you credit to say that they're increasing in Bible sales? More men seem to be going to church. There's a lot of different factors. what is driving some of those things in your opinion?
Arne Cole So this is touchy. The Bible sales went up last year. Now they've come down. And my thing that I've said since I've been been researching all of this stuff for the last 20 years, just because you buy a Bible doesn't mean anything except to the people that get the sales for the Bible. You got to open it. Okay. So that, that's kind of problematic with the Bible. And then the second part, and this gets kind of controversial. There's one group of researchers that say, saying all ah, kinds of Gen Z are coming back, men especially are coming back and all of this. And then there's another group who have looked at this in detail and what they're saying is m. Gen Z Republicans are coming back to church. And it's more of a political kind of reaction after the Kirk tragedy and all of that. But it's not to say Gen Z males are coming back is really, you're just watching politics in action.
Jeff Chamblee Your mission at Back to the Bible is to is help bring about these individuals and corporate changes in churches. Tell us about the work of Back to the Bible and specifically how you encourage people to engage in discipleship of other believers.
Arne Cole So first, and this is the research site on spiritual formation that we do worldwide. But with our focus on the U.S. I was shocked that the people that know Jesus the most have the most resources. The over 50 crowd are the least likely to disciple or mentor anyone. And women are even the very worst, the most significant difference of anybody in the population of not mentoring and discipling anyone. So part of what we do is we don't throw those numbers at people. Of course we try to encourage people to take a look at their thought process, relying on I'm in. You know, it all started with the over 50 crowd. Billy Graham. Let Billy do it. You know, let's get everybody out, to, to Billy, you know, and, and, and so we, we try. We, we work from the concept. We don't, you know, Billy Graham did great. You know, all of these things were good, but that, it's. Each one win one. That's really the victory is where you become involved with someone else. And it's a big challenge for us at Back to the Bible, because you're dealing with people who know the Bible inside and out. A lot of our people, especially that come to us, are mature believers. They know what the Great Commission is and they know it applies to them. But in their behavior, it doesn't translate. It's just fascinating.
Jeff Chamblee Before we go today, I'd like you to walk us through, some of the initial steps of discipleship, because that's kind of a major theme of our discussion today. So if someone is listening and they are convicted, I'm not discipling the way that I should. Can you give us some first steps to begin to engage in what it means to actually bring another believer on and help them to grow in the faith?
Arne Cole So if you've never talked to anyone about your faith, okay, what we strongly encourage people to do is to get out their Bibles, you know, read it every day. And, and we have this little thing. You receive. You read what the Bible has to say, you receive it into your heart, you reflect on it, okay? But then there's a fourth step, and that is you reveal it to someone else. So what we want to do is to help you get a lifestyle of your. You engage in the Bible, you're hearing from the Lord, and you just make a step to talk to someone else about what you. And that's what we call Scripture absorption. What you learned today, what you absorbed today, and you can practice that on your grandkids, on your kids, on. On believers, so that it becomes a part of your DNA. So, and that takes a couple months for people to kind of get used to, and it's what the Holy Spirit kind of convicts you of. Then as we go, we start asking people to pray for opportunities just for the person that, you know. and just by doing that, becoming aware of what opportunities you have just to talk to someone about the Lord, and then it's, you know, of course, focus on. On somebody, not as a project, but, you know, we're going to walk through this scripture together. So it's, it's really relational, one person at a time, and it's very time consuming. Okay.
And that's a caution Back to, you know, are we in a revival? Is, these things take time. And so the more hype and the more marketing, you just have to focus on yourself and that other person you're trying to disciple. And because it takes a while, it just doesn't happen overnight.
Jeff Chamblee Yeah, that's really good. I think most people, when they hear. Are you discipling someone? what comes into my mind is that gathering five people around the table, opening it up and doing an extensive Bible study and walking people through doctrine after doctrine. And I love the way that you describe that because it's very natural. It comes out of your own quiet time. Here's one truth that I found out today. Let me share that with someone in my own family, maybe a grandchild, as you said, or a co worker, and then gradually expanding from there. So that's a very, very encouraging mod in your work at Back to the Bible. What have you heard from people who have gone from no discipleship to actually beginning to walk down that road and help other believers along the path of following Jesus?
Arne Cole So it's like that old adage about when you do something for someone else or try to teach someone else, you learn so much more.
I mean, the stories that, I've heard personally with, people, how it helps the people, you know, and some people have said they've helped people come to know the Lord, you know, and they know it's the Lord that saves people, not them, but their own experience. And becoming involved with people, has really been a big lifesaver. And, you know, the other side benefit is we're a very lonely society. And if you're sharing the love of Jesus, it's pretty hard to be a lonely person, you know, or grumpy. you know, as you get older, you get grumpy. Well, if you're sharing the love of Jesus, it just, it takes your life to a whole new dimension. Yeah.
Jeff Chamblee what have you experienced as far as how discipleship is related to solidifying your own walk with Christ? What does it do for a believer to vocalize to other people what he's found in the scripture for their own spiritual growth?
Arne Cole What it has done for me is it helps me focus daily on Jesus.
okay, you know, you can get, you can read, you can sit and, you know, take in all this scripture. But then living it out, it takes it to a whole different dimension that is really far more exciting than this inward, spiritual kind of, routine that, most people have.
Jeff Chamblee Dr. Arnie Cole has been our guest today. He is the CEO of Back to the Bible and chief research officer of the center for Scripture Absorption. The website is backtothebible.org backtothebible.org you'll find a host of resources, including, a, ah, YouTube channel, many articles, and a bookstore where you can find Dr. Cole's latest book, The Over 50 Advantage, by our guest along with Rick Lawrence. That's all at backtothebible.org Dr. Cole, this has been a great conversation today. Thank you for your encouragement and for helping us understand how important discipleship is as we bring others along in following the Lord Jesus. Thanks for being with us.
Arne Cole Well, thank you. Thank you for having me, Jeff.
Jeff Chamblee And coming up next week, staff writer Matthew White will tell us what he's learned about the origin of Halloween and how the Bible can guide the way that we think about it. Today's program is available as a [email protected] A free trial subscription to the stand magazine is available to you when you visit thestand.net thanks for listening and join us again next time on the stand Radio.
In this episode, Rebecca Davis and Elaine Bunn will tell us about ways believers are influencing the world around them using The Stand magazine. Then, Arnie Cole, CEO of Back to the Bible, will draw from their latest research to assess the claims of revival in the United States.
00:00-00:59 Program Open and Guest Introduction
1:00-9:04 Rebecca Davis and Elaine Bunn
09:16-27:28 Dr. Arnie Cole
27:29-28:00 Program Close and Next Week's Highlights
Christian Post article by Arnie Cole
The Stand Magazine, free trial subscription
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