AI Data Centers Spark Debate Over Energy Costs and National Security

Today's Issues continues on AFR

>> Ed Vitagliano: Today's Issues continues on AFR with your host, Ed Vitagliano. And welcome back, everybody. For those of you just joining us, welcome to the show. For those of you who have come back for the third segment of Today's Issues, welcome back to you. Ed, Battagliano sitting in for Tim Wildmon today, joined in studio by Fred Jackson and Wesley Wildmon. And then, as per usual, we welcome in Steve Paisley Jordal, and, Steve, welcome.

>> Steve Jordahl: Come back for the third. I mean, there's people that join us for the third.

>> Ed Vitagliano: That is absolutely. That's true. now, you do have a Paisley I do Shirt. Is this new one?

>> Steve Jordahl: No.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Okay.

>> Steve Jordahl: No, I've had this while. I don't. You know, I rotate them.

>> Ed Vitagliano: You do keep everybody. Guess I don't know that I've seen that one. So I must have been. It must not have been one of my days when, Just one of those days.

>> Steve Jordahl: I got pictures. Paisley. I got.

>> Ed Vitagliano: You got paisley?

>> Steve Jordahl: Yeah.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Do you usually get, your shirts from the same place or the variety of places?

>> Steve Jordahl: I look online. and. And my buying habits are such that now I'm fed a whole lot of places on my, My. That comes up. I see ads all the time now for paisley stuff.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Are you serious? Oh, because you search for paisley shirts?

>> Steve Jordahl: Well, because I bought one. Okay. Like, here's. Here's a site. Look at this. This is,

>> Ed Vitagliano: But how do they know you don't just like shirts with a black background?

>> Steve Jordahl: Well, they don't. They don't, but they know. Okay, so this is a company. I'm not going to name what it is, but I got, a text from them Saturday, Tuesdays, Sunday, yesterday. I've got one yet today, but. Wow, they keep sending me stuff because. Not necessarily. It's just.

>> Wesley Wildmon: Just colored shirts, bright colored shirts, not traditional shirts. I mean, not your standard.

>> Steve Jordahl: This is one that I actually bought.

>> Ed Vitagliano: This makes really good radio, too, by the way.

>> Steve Jordahl: I know.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Hey, look at this, guys. All right, for you folks listening, just a picture in your mind, your mind's eye. All right, Steve, let's, let's get to the actual news.

Critics say artificial intelligence data centers will raise utility costs for average American

>> Steve Jordahl: All right? we talk a lot about the encroachment of artificial intelligence on this culture that we are getting ready for a whole revolution. All of this artificial intelligence takes computers. It takes computing powers. You have to put buildings full of computers together in order to get this wonder that we call artificial intelligence. And for those, we require data centers. Well, there's a whole lot of argument going on. There's A lot of not in my backyard ism going on about these data centers. And, some people think they're good, some people think they're not. They might use more energy, might cause your energy to go up. Anyway, Fred, we've got a couple, people inputting on this.

>> Fred Jackson: Yeah, Bernie Sanders, and AOC and some of the other on the left. Basically, they would like to, block these data centers, because they're worried about energy costs, they're worried about the water that has to be used to cool these machines down, et cetera, et cetera. So here's a little bit of Senator Bernie Sanders cut 11.

>> Ed Vitagliano: We are announcing legislation to impose a moratorium on the construction of new AI data centers until strong national safeguards are in place.

>> Speaker E: They are racing to construct thousands of giant AI data centers and jacking up the utility costs of everyday Americans to pay for it.

>> Ed Vitagliano: I stand with local and state elected officials saying that we cannot approve any more of these until we have federal level guardrails. All right, who's that last voice?

>> Fred Jackson: That was Abdul El Sayed. Okay, so you had. Those are three voices from the left. They're warning that these AI centers need to be studied a bit more. Very dangerous. Because they're going to use up so much electricity. They're going to raise the electrical bill for you and me and everybody else.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Right.

>> Fred Jackson: So, to, respond to that, Fox and Friends this morning, head on one of their news Fox, news specialists, business specialist Lou Bassanese is his name. And this was his response to, what he considers Bernie Sanders, AOC and El Sayed crying wolf and misleading people about the alleged dangers of these data centers. Cut number 12.

>> Speaker E: I think this is a grave mistake. This is a national security issue that's turning into a local zoning issue. And I don't know anyone. If you've ever been to a homeowners meeting that's run. Well, they never are. And now we're putting politicians in charge of a technology, technology that very few of them ever understand. And it's moving too fast. And I would tell you, we've been here before, right? Remember 5G and cell towers? Nobody wanted them in their backyard, but they wanted five bars of coverage. Same thing here playing out with data centers. People are afraid of what's going to happen. They let. They talk about the cost. But here's the funny thing. When it talks about water usage. Your local Olive Garden uses as much water as an average data center. So I don't hear anyone opposing Olive Garden on their water Usage and bill going up. They should, because it's not real Italian food.

>> Fred Jackson: Okay, to the Italian.

>> Ed Vitagliano: This is why you wouldn't let me listen to this clip in our story meeting. Rabbit trail. okay. a lot to unpack here. First of all, an unnecessary swipe at Olive Garden. it is Italian food. It's not the. It's not the greatest Italian, food in the world, but it is an attempted food. It's an attempt at Italian food. Now, my mom and dad would be very disappointed in what I just said. Okay. Defending Olive Garden. But it's. It's. It's not bad. My wife. My wife likes it. We go, they have some decent pasta.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Why.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Why am I talking about this? You guys baited me into this. This is not about Olive Garden.

>> Steve Jordahl: We can go back to my shirts if you want.

>> Speaker E: Here I.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Here I am, trying to finesse my way through the Olive Garden.

>> Steve Jordahl: We haven't really let you do it.

>> Wesley Wildmon: We weren't going to save you.

>> Steve Jordahl: We were just sitting back.

>> Ed Vitagliano: I know.

>> Wesley Wildmon: Literally eating popcorn right now.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Yeah, you're l. Literally eating popcorn watching me fumble my way through the. we have a local restaurant here in our. In Tupelo, Mississippi, which is our, headquarters for American Family association and, for American Family Radio. So I don't want to disparage them.

>> Fred Jackson: I've enjoyed. I enjoy their food.

>> Wesley Wildmon: Yeah.

>> Steve Jordahl: One of the charges that I'm hearing is that those that are opposing these data centers. Whoa, whoa, whoa.

>> Ed Vitagliano: We're talking about Olive Garden. What's your opinion on Olive Garden?

>> Steve Jordahl: I love Olive Garden.

Steve: I think concerns over data centers are overblown

>> Ed Vitagliano: All right, let's. Now we can move on. Okay. Let me ask you, Steve, because you. You do a lot. Lot of this. The, research stories on this.

>> Steve Jordahl: I was trying to get us back on track. Save you. But, yeah.

>> Ed Vitagliano: so I'm gonna. I'm gonna admit I'm not sure who's telling the truth here about the. The data centers. I've heard and read stories about people whose water pressure in their community dropped because of all the water going to the data center. That was what they said. who's telling the truth on some of these things? As far as you can tell, in,

>> Steve Jordahl: your research that I talked to, most people will say that it's likely that those that oppose these data centers are being influenced by China, who would rather not have us put together, or the road to artificial intelligence superiority be made easy for us. one solution to these data centers that Elon Musk is having is he's putting them in space for the cooling for the cooling and.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Yeah.

>> Steve Jordahl: There's no need for water. And all of the problems have in your backyard and everything is solved by putting them in space. how would those be powered? Just sunlight 24 hours a day.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Oh, look. Okay, so let me ask you this because that's, I just, that's interesting to me. So let me, let me pick your brain a little bit about that. So how would the data be transmitted? It's just like via satellite. Okay. Up and down like you would like. We do have satellites, cell phones and such.

>> Ed Vitagliano: And the speed of transmission is they.

>> Steve Jordahl: Yeah, he's not, he's not worried about it. he's not worried about. And yeah. And the precursor to that of course is his cel. What's it called? The.

>> Ed Vitagliano: I know, Yeah. I can't think of the name of

>> Steve Jordahl: the cell, phone company that he has where. And he's, he's put those in places that don't have like disaster areas where your infrastructure is out. and there's satellite, Starlink, Starlink.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Sorry.

>> Ed Vitagliano: I, looked at.

>> Steve Jordahl: So I tend to think that the concerns over the data centers are a little overblown.

>> Ed Vitagliano: And it does seem to me that we're just going to have to, we're going to have to figure out a way data centers aren't going away.

>> Steve Jordahl: You got to have computing power. To put this.

>> Wesley Wildmon: It's one of those. The pros outweigh the cons by a good margin. Yeah. That your, your electric. Let's just play this out. Let's say you're. Let's concede and say your electric bill goes, up. Okay, maybe it does, but then everything else is about to go down.

>> Wesley Wildmon: Because of the advancement of technology.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Yeah. And, and, and let me just say this too. The, A lot of the concerns are being played out on social media. I know on X I can regularly find stories about these data centers and that what the government intends to use them for. And listen, the government has made its own bed in terms of people not trusting it. Now they have to sleep in it. So people, I've, you know, read about people saying this is for, you know, for digital currency and for tracking human beings and all that kind of stuff and keeping track tabs on what you do, where you move. And I don't anymore. Just discount those concerns as tinfoil hat concerns again because the government has proved itself untrustworthy under countless, administrations. And so now you're gonna. The government has to deal with the fallout.

>> Fred Jackson: But the concerns, have crossed political lines.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Yes.

>> Fred Jackson: It's not just Democrats. It's not just DSA people that are out there. I believe, correct me if I'm wrong, Steve, in Texas, the governor there has put a moratorium, a block, a hold for now on development of future AI centers, because, there are certain cities, large cities, that are very concerned. These things do soak up a lot of energy, and there's only a limited supply of energy.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Well, and also, I'll tell you something else, too. They require a fair amount of land, and there are concerns about the government using eminent domain to just buy up people's homes.

>> Steve Jordahl: Homes, which hasn't happened yet to this point. and also, tech companies are being given license to build their own power supplies. They're not drawing from the same power supply that your TV and your bedroom lights are coming from.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Is it true? I read that they're considering maybe, like, little mini nuclear power plants or is there another form of power?

>> Steve Jordahl: I've heard that. I don't know. I'm not up to date on where that argument stands.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Okay. All right, that's. That's good. So this is part of your regular beat. Okay. So we'll. We'll turn to Steve Jordal when we have questions about, whether we should put on our tin foil hat.

I don't understand how algorithms work when I'm online or using social media

Oh, let me just say this one other thing. I don't. I honestly don't understand how algorithms work when I'm on online, on the Internet, or when I'm using social media, because I started getting these kind of, stories, I think, in my Facebook feed or whatever. these people with these hats, these caps, you're supposed to put. Have you seen these?

>> Wesley Wildmon: No.

>> Ed Vitagliano: you put these caps on, and it's supposed to protect you from, you know, this type of radiation or this type of signal, if you. I guess it's just me. I have no idea why they're. Why they're pointing these at me. I have no interest in it.

>> Ed Vitagliano: But

>> Ed Vitagliano: the blank looks on your face.

>> Steve Jordahl: I don't know.

>> Ed Vitagliano: This is apparently directed only at me, so, I'll have to try to figure out why I'm in their crosshairs.

A poll showing LA Mayor Karen Bass ahead of Councilwoman Spencer Pratt was fabricated

All right, what else?

>> Steve Jordahl: All right. So, earlier this summer, Los Angeles had a mayoral primary. And, Karen Bass was, She was leading. There was a Democrat, another Democrat in the race, and then there was a Republican named Spencer Pratt.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Yes, I remember this guy.

>> Steve Jordahl: Well, there was a polling company, a polling firm, and it was named Median Strategies. That came out with some polls, and it came out with a poll that found that Karen Bass was leading by, in double digits, a 12 point lead, in her race, basically. it told Republican voters, don't bother to come out because Spencer Pratt has no chance. Well, it turns out that Median Strategies, all of a sudden the Los Angeles Times does an investigation and finds out that, it's not actually a polling firm. They say that they were conducting, what they were calling a social experiment. They wanted to see if they could put some data out there, a poll out there, and who would pick it up. So the news picked it up. Different, companies picked it up. William lajeuness is talking about this. He explains a little bit about what's going on. Cut 50.

>> Ed Vitagliano: A legitimate sounding company puts out a poll showing LA Mayor Karen Bass leads Councilwoman Rahman by 12 points. Well, that's plausible. But it also showed 85% of Spencer Pratt voters breaking for Bass. Well, that's insane. Most Pratt voters would rather walk through fire than vote for Bass. But the media loves polls. TV stations, social media. A major newspaper reported it hook, line and sinker. Millions of voters believed one thing that was entirely fabricated. And when the LA Times called the polling company, it admits the whole thing was a hoax, saying, quote, median Strategies was created as a short term social experiment to examine how purported polling information could enter and spread through the political information ecosystem without independent verification. We're not seeking publicity or attribution for the individuals involved in our declining interviews.

>> Steve Jordahl: Yeah, we don't want to talk about it.

>> Wesley Wildmon: Well, do they lie? It sounds like they lied.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Well, they're, they're, they're suspending.

>> Steve Jordahl: The suspicion is that Democrats are behind this and it was Pushbowl put out there to discourage Pratt voters. And now that they've been found out, they're, changing the tune, saying, we were never really a polling firm, we were conducting a social experiment.

>> Wesley Wildmon: Yeah, that sounds like lying.

>> Steve Jordahl: Yes, it does it a lot, doesn't it?

>> Ed Vitagliano: If your kid, you still have young kids, Wesley, if your kid. Well, one of your children came and tried to spin what he or she had done, in this way you would say, no, that's a lie.

>> Ed Vitagliano: You know, you're. Oh, yeah, you can't, you can't say, well, the only reason I took the cookies was I was conducting a social experiment to see how people, parents would react to the missing cookies. It wasn't that I wanted the cookies, or that I enjoyed eating them. Fred. I was just talking about how government. We've talked about, we talked about Cove A couple of weeks ago, how the medical profession, kind of, you know, hurt themselves, shot themselves in the foot, if you will, in terms of the trust of the American people. Here's another example of institutions. I know they're saying they weren't a polling firm, but people don't pay attention to who the poll is conducted by. A lot of times they just think, oh, it's a polling firm. This is a scientific, sociological analysis of where people are. This kind of thing makes people trust polling as an institution, even less.

>> Fred Jackson: Well, two things that work here. I. I think the liberal media would have loved this poll.

>> Fred Jackson: And they would want to put it out there because their candidate, Bass.

>> Fred Jackson: Is way out in front. And they didn't like his. The more conservative candidates.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Oh, they hated Spencer Pratt.

>> Fred Jackson: Yeah.

>> Wesley Wildmon: Because of his.

>> Fred Jackson: Yes.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Powerful social media ads.

>> Fred Jackson: He did. So, they jumped on this poll. I'm just thinking, having worked in the liberal newsroom environment many years ago, they jumped on this poll and celebrated it and wanted to put it out there without checking the source on this. The other thing in this, if it was, let's just believe this group for a moment, an experiment, then they should have come out within 24 hours and said, wait a minute, it wasn't a real poll. We were just experimenting to see how people responded to it. They should have gone public with this information. When did they go public with the information?

>> Steve Jordahl: They were found out. They were investigated. they didn't. I'm surprised.

>> Fred Jackson: Was it the LA Times?

>> Steve Jordahl: LA Times?

>> Fred Jackson: I'm surprised they took the time to investigate.

>> Ed Vitagliano: I'm not, I'm not defending them. Their claim that they were trying to experiment to see. They would probably say we needed more than just 24 hours to see how this went. to me, the answer would be the right approach would be you don't do a political poll. Do a poll on some other subject.

>> Ed Vitagliano: You know, on people's views about climate change or, you know, or, you know, this, that or the other.

>> Ed Vitagliano: You don't use a topic that is likely to influence an election.

>> Fred Jackson: A very hot current topic.

>> Steve Jordahl: And, as it turns out, in November, Los Angeles will be trying to elect, a mayor, and they will have the choice between, Ramen and Bass. And Spencer Pratt is nowhere to be found on the ballot because he lost in the primary.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Yeah. And listen, I will say this about City councilwoman, member Nithya Rahman. I do like her food.

Those noodles have a lot of sodium, but uh, no, uh

I do. Those noodles are just great. They do have a lot of sodium, but no, that may be ethnically, wrong to do.

>> Wesley Wildmon: I had self control there.

>> Ed Vitagliano: I thought it when I saw that name. It's not even spelled the same. Her name is R A M, M A N, not en, like the delicious noodles. All right, I'm getting messages. M. You want me to help us out, huh?

>> Wesley Wildmon: let me help us out here. Yeah, go ahead.

>> Ed Vitagliano: You want to move us along?

>> Wesley Wildmon: This is. You're listening to Today's issues on American Family Radio.

Every year, the king issues a sovereign grant report on Church of England

Next story.

>> Steve Jordahl: Steve, there's a bit of a scandal going on over in Great Britain right now, where every year, the king, in this case now a king, it was Queen Elisabeth, issues a what's called a sovereign grant report. Basically, it is the report, the king or the sovereign over Great Britain is the head of the Church of England. And part of that, tradition has been they are the defender of the faith. Well, in this year's sovereign grant annual report in June, they replaced the, title. The title in 2025 and 26, the grant said, his Majesty is Supreme Governor of the Church of England and is, head of the Church of England and defender of the faith. This last one says, his Majesty is Supreme Governor of the Church of England and protects the space for faith within a multi faith nation. Now, could it be that a growing Muslim population in England, who's a little upset with, wants to kind of control everything, had some sway in this? Are they being deferential to Muslims? Wesley, the argument could be made.

>> Ed Vitagliano: What do you think?

>> Wesley Wildmon: Read that last part again or I will. This part right here protects the space for faith. What? Within the m. Multi faith nation. We could just not do that. You could just keep the original one. This is not necessary.

>> Ed Vitagliano: This is cowardice in action. Yes, this is the coward's way out. Precisely because of what you said, Steve, they didn't make this change to protect the feelings of whatever number of Hindus are in the uk, Right, Fred? It's not for a few Taoists or, you know, Mormons that aren't in the Church of England.

>> Wesley Wildmon: Here's. I got a good one for you. It could say, head of the Church of England and defender of the faith. Oh, wait, that's what it said previously. That was just fine.

>> Ed Vitagliano: How about defender of the faith against Muslim invaders?

>> Speaker E: Yeah.

>> Wesley Wildmon: Oh, my word.

>> Steve Jordahl: Yeah. This is the difference. One of the differences between England and here. England is set up. There is no church state separation. The state of England is the English Church. It is, the king is the head of the church.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Well, this may be part of the problem is that the Church of England. Fred, I will get your take now, I promise. The Church of England is. I'm not saying it's, a lost cause, but it's getting pretty close to being so compromised theologically.

>> Ed Vitagliano: That there's hardly anything left to defend.

>> Fred Jackson: That's right. And it is all connected to what has happened in Britain. An invasion of Muslims.

>> Fred Jackson: And you know, we've done stories. There's great concern amongst some British people about what's happening there because now Muslims are mayors of several different cities, including the city of London. Yeah, yeah. Has a Muslim mayor. So this is King Charles being extremely politically correct. He's head of the Church of England. If you want to be technical, it is a Christian church.

>> Fred Jackson: Technical.

>> Fred Jackson: Technically not reality.

>> Fred Jackson: Christian church.

>> Steve Jordahl: So it's our Episcopal Church. It's the same.

>> Fred Jackson: Yes. So he is to be the defender of that faith.

>> Steve Jordahl: Yeah. He headed that church.

>> Fred Jackson: What he has elected to do is not so much anymore, folks. I'm going to defend everybody because everybody's okay in God's eyes. Let's just face it. That's where he is in his thinking.

>> Steve Jordahl: If you look back at the history of England and some of the monarch, like for example, the fact that, the queen's, sister, Queen Elisabeth's sister wasn't allowed to marry a divorced man. It was because they're head of the Church of England and the Church of England did not allow that at the the time.

>> Steve Jordahl: So they took this very seriously in the day.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Yeah. Well, the Episcopal Church, like you said, the Episcopal Church is part of that worldwide Anglican community headed up by the Church of England. And they are splitting, not only in this country, but there are conservative, Anglican churches around the world that. Go ahead.

>> Wesley Wildmon: I'll add this real quick. Political correctness is only tyranny with manners. Just remember that.

>> Ed Vitagliano: I like that. Did you come up with that or. That's good.

>> Wesley Wildmon: The director of the Ten Commandments movie.

>> Wesley Wildmon: Forget his name.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Cecil B. DeMille. No, the original.

>> Wesley Wildmon: The original one, yeah. Yeah. I'm sorry.

>> Ed Vitagliano: The actor that played M. Charlton Heston.

Charles Heston: All the time. He said that. All right, folks, that's all the time

>> Wesley Wildmon: Charles Heston. He said that.

>> Ed Vitagliano: All right, folks, that's all the time. We have, more great programming directly ahead on American Family Radio. Lord willing, we will see you right back here tomorrow.