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Today's Issues offers Christian response to the issues of the day

>> Jeff Chamblee: Welcome to Today's Issues, offering a Christian response to the issues of the day. Here's your host, Tim Wildmon, president of the American Family Association.

>> Tim Wildmon: Hey, good morning, everybody, and welcome to Today's Issues on the American Family Radio Network. Today's Issues, the name of this program. It's Monday, December 15th, 2025. I'm Tim Wildmon, and in studio with me is Ed Vitagliano. Good morning, Ed.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Good morning, Tim.

>> Tim Wildmon: Good morning, Fred Jackson.

>> Fred Jackson: Hi there, Tim.

>> Tim Wildmon: And, fellas, we got 10 days. 10 days of.

>> Ed Vitagliano: 10 days till Christmas, December 15th.

>> Tim Wildmon: Yep.

>> Ed Vitagliano: So we do a little quick math, and that's 10 days. You're right.

>> Tim Wildmon: 10 days.

>> Ed Vitagliano: I had to check that. Check the. The math on that.

>> Tim Wildmon: Shopping. I'm reminding people about the shopping that may need to be done for your friends and family members, or favorite.

>> Ed Vitagliano: You know, talk show hosts, whatever. Whatever the case may be.

>> Tim Wildmon: Yeah.

>> Ed Vitagliano: You know, there may be people up there saying, I wonder what. What Tim, Ed and Fred would like for Christmas.

>> Tim Wildmon: And then. It's fleeting.

>> Ed Vitagliano: It's. The thought is fleeting.

>> Tim Wildmon: Thought is fleeting. there's a lot to talk about today on the program. Sadly, it's all bad. yeah, it's just, you know, it's just tragic. news since Friday, Saturday, since, I don't know, last three or four days, it's just been terrible. The news, you know, the stories that have been leading the news would like to have happier things to talk about, especially around the holiday of Christmas and, NewSong Year's. Everybody's generally in a happy mood. But, Fred, what's leading the news right now?

Father and son opened fire on group of Jews during Hanukkah celebration

>> Fred Jackson: Well, still leading the news this morning is what happened in Australia, on the weekend. I think probably most of our listeners have heard now, during a Hanukkah celebration, group of Jews at a. I've never been to Australia, but apparently Bondi beach is a very popular area in the Sydney area. And, some Jews were celebrating Hanukkah, which had started on Friday, I guess it was. And two men we now know of father and son opened fire on that celebration. And we know at this point, 15 people killed, 38 injured, probably a lot of in our audience have seen some of the videos coming out of Australia. There were some people who were able to actually videotape one of the shooters. he was open fire and what you see is a man with a long stem rifle and he is shooting pop, pop, pop. That's what you hear. another video that's come up is a man who runs up behind one of the shooters and grabs the gun out of his arms. He points that gun at one of the shooters but then lets him go. We now know that man that probably stopped the shooting, actually is a Syrian man. He's from Syria, immigrated to Australia. Couple of things that are coming out of all of this right now. Obviously the reports and even the Associated Press, even the liberal media is saying that Australia has not done enough to combat anti Semitism. There have been attacks on synagogues, attacks on other Israeli interests over the years. and Australia, one of those places, that was advocating for a two state solution. Prime Minister Netanyahu of Israel made that remark this morning. But here's the other thing that's being talked about. Australia has one of the strictest group of gun laws in the world and yet this happened. But what is the reaction this morning even among some here in the United States, some members of, of Congress saying, you know, and we're going to talk about another tragedy that occurred this weekend, but calling for gun laws. And it's just a reminder once again it's not guns that create violence, it's the people who have those guns. So much to talk about about this. But number one, it has attacked this father and son, both Muslims and open fire on these unarmed group of Jews there in Australia.

>> Tim Wildmon: How many dead? How many injured?

>> Fred Jackson: 15 dead, 38 injured at this point by 11 1.

>> Tim Wildmon: There was two of them. But were both of them firing?

>> Fred Jackson: Yes, both firing. Father and son. The father is dead. He was taken down by authorities. The son is in critical condition in an Australia hospital.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Yeah, he's, he's in a, a coma.

>> Fred Jackson: Yeah.

>> Ed Vitagliano: and the people killed included a 10 year old girl, a rabbi and a Holocaust survivor. Man, you survived the Holocaust and then die on a beach during Hanukkah. By the way, there's a good detailed story on afn.net for and keep your eyes open at afn.net for updates throughout the day as authorities continue to release, details as they come to as details.

>> Tim Wildmon: It's just another. Just another case of, Islamic Jihadi murdering Jews because they're Jews. Is that what we got here?

>> Ed Vitagliano: That is the way it appears. now, the man that you mentioned, Fred, that stopped the father, I think that was the father that he stopped, incredibly. But I've seen the video of it. Incredibly. Brave, courageous. moment here. This was a Syrian. Do we know if he was Muslim as well? We don't know.

>> Tim Wildmon: Probably was, yeah.

>> Ed Vitagliano: So, But to your point, Tim, when they go radical, this. This is just stunning. A father and a son. And, I've talked to some folks who go to the gun range, on a lot, a lot. They said these two men, the father and son, had to have been practicing this for a long time because you have a beach full of fleeing people. And I'm not trying to get graphic here, but shooting at a stationary target is one thing, but 15 dead, 38 injured. these two individuals probably were preparing for this for a while.

>> Fred Jackson: Yes.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Which is just. We've talked.

>> Tim Wildmon: So the gun control laws didn't stop this guy in Australia. And you're saying they have very strict.

>> Fred Jackson: Gun control, Some of the strictest in the world.

>> Tim Wildmon: Okay, this is, the point that needs to be, which is obvious, but needs to be stated again, just for the record here, guns don't kill people. People kill people with guns. Secondly, I don't know how hard that is for liberals to understand, the gun control proponents to understand. Secondly, and maybe this is as important to state as. The first thing is that bad guys are always going to find a way to get guns. All right? So because it's a crime, it's criminal activity to murder people. So I don't. Why is that so hard to get through? The liberal. I heard Elizabeth Warren, the senator from Massachusetts, and she was commenting on the shooter at Brown University. We're going to get to that story which killed two people and left several injured over the weekend. That happened, of course, here in the U.S. but she said, when are we going to deal. We got to deal with. With gun violence? This is just. They say this every time something happens. And I'm going to. What. What gun law are you going to pass that's going to keep people intent on murdering people from. From. From stopping them? I don't understand. Can you help me, Ed, in any way?

>> Ed Vitagliano: Well, I do.

>> Tim Wildmon: What would they say?

>> Ed Vitagliano: I do want to make mention of the fact that from, from what I've read, the, older of the two men, of the father and son, was. He owned these, guns legally. Yeah, these were legally licensed firearm owners. You can go through a process in Australia to obtain guns legally.

I think what the left does on this issue is they say guns are lethal

>> Tim Wildmon: Okay.

>> Ed Vitagliano: But it's very difficult and it's hugely expensive. That's my understanding. But to answer your question, I think what the left does on this issue is they say if there were no guns there, there, you could not, obviously you could not have shootings. And when you say, well, people kill with knives and they kill with other things, their answer. Now, I, I'm a firm supporter of the Second Amendment. I have an enhanced carry permit myself. their answer to that is that guns are far more lethal than anything else a person with murderous intent, would, would use to commit a crime. and so, the, the second thing is true, it is more lethal to have a gun and to use it when you're trying to kill someone. But the first thing, the first part is just living in la la land, there's just, we're not going to the, the United States. My understanding is I, I forget the exact number. 300 million. There's more guns in the United States than there are people. That's what I've typically heard. You're not going to get rid of those guns. And people have in our country a legal right to defend themselves. I always want to ask people who want to get rid of the Second Amendment, what percentage of people who legally own guns commit crimes with them? And that's got to be very, very small, which means people have these guns to defend themselves. And, and they don't use them to commit crimes. But that. Those are the two answers that you usually get. If we didn't have any guns, there'd be no gun crime. Which is a duh moment.

>> Tim Wildmon: Can I tell you a third reason too? Okay, a third point here. Bullet point, no pun intended. And that is this. I don't think the people on the left don't want to talk about the race of the person or the religious, motivation of the person. if it doesn't fit their narrative, then they want to just blame guns. If it's a, if it's a Muslim killing Jews, they don't want to talk about. He's, he's, he's motivated by jihadi, Jihadi thoughts or whatever you want to say. They just want to say, oh, it's guns. Unless the motive fits their narrative. So I can guarantee you, if this were a white supremacist that had killed these people in Australia or at Brown University. The left would be talking today not about gun control. They would be talking about white supremacy. You see what I'm saying here?

>> Ed Vitagliano: So, by the way, be talking about the motivation.

>> Tim Wildmon: They'd be talking about the motivation because it fits their narrative. Okay. That they want to talk about. I think the people on the right, are pretty consistent on this. They, we don't care about the narrative. We, we care about what is the motivation for the killing in the first place. not guns. Don't get out of there. You know, don't get out of the cabinet at home and walk out on the streets. And that's what the left acts like. And the guns start killing people.

>> Fred Jackson: Right.

>> Tim Wildmon: But they only believe that when it's some motivation of somebody. They want to talk. They don't want to talk about, for example, if you talk about gun. Talk about, quote, gun violence in Chicago, well, it's almost exclusively by black males. Probably be between the ages of 15 and 35. It's probably 75, 80, 90% of, quote, gun violence in Chicago every weekend, right?

>> Ed Vitagliano: Yeah.

>> Tim Wildmon: Or every week. They don't want to talk about black on black crime.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Right.

>> Tim Wildmon: They just want to talk about the guns walking out in the streets and shooting people. However, I guarantee you, if this was a white supremacist, and they do exist, although they're not. Numbers aren't evidently as, as bad as, Joe Biden wanted us to believe. He said that was the greatest threat to humanity. White. Bizarre.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Bizarrely. That's what he said.

>> Tim Wildmon: He said white supremacy was the greatest threat to the America. That's what Joe Biden said.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Yeah.

>> Tim Wildmon: so, so, if you got, if it were a white supremacist killing people in Chicago, you would hear about the motivation. You see what I'm saying?

>> Ed Vitagliano: Sure.

>> Tim Wildmon: So I think we need to be consistent here as much as we can. And so when the left says we need gun control. No, we already have gun laws. Gun laws don't stop bad people from, from doing harm to others. They're going to get guns. That's why they're criminals. I mean, I just don't know how hard this is to understand now. This is a secondary issue to what we're talking about here. The tragedy, is the first issue of what happened in Australia. just, all these Jewish people trying to celebrate Hanukkah on a beach, get just mowed down. And then at Brown University here in the United States, which is in Rhode Island. Right. We don't we don't know who the shooter is yet, and we don't know who what, what his. Assuming it's a male, it almost always is a, we don't want, we don't know what the motivation is. Right.

>> Fred Jackson: No, they're a group of students, they were in the engineering building there at Brown University.

>> Tim Wildmon: Where is that? In Providence.

>> Fred Jackson: Providence, on Saturday they were getting ready for final exams and some person walked into the back of the room. They got in, by the way, before I forget, they're saying one of the problems at Brown University. Brown University doesn't like a lot of cameras.

Brown University police release person of interest in shooting that killed two students

So we're not, they don't have that to work with as far as evidence goes. He walks into the back room, just opens up fire. Now when that story broke, within a couple of hours they said they had a person of interest in custody. They arrested him at a Hampton Inn in the local area. there's one little piece of video of a guy wearing all black walking away from the scene. But just this morning, we're learning that they've let that person go. They're releasing him. they figure it out fairly quickly. They really don't have the evidence. It may have something to do with what they believe the weapon was in this case. The guy that they had arrested initially had a 9 millimeter gun. There is a witness who apparently says there was a long stemmed rifle used. So that's where we are with that. So as of last night when they held a news conference to say they were releasing this initial person of interest, they basically, they're back to scratch again on trying to figure out who did this. But yes, two people died there. Two students, one of them a young lady from Birmingham. we found that out this morning.

>> Tim Wildmon: Birmingham, Alabama.

>> Fred Jackson: Birmingham, Alabama. So very, very tragic. they've, they've cancelled all the final exams there at Brown University and you know, once again, you know, guns being blamed by the left.

Rob Reiner and his wife were stabbed to death early this morning

But the other story that we're dealing with today is the stabbing death of Rob Reiner, comedian Rob Reiner and his wife. We're just learning that their son Nick has just been arrested this morning and is apparently going to be charged. But this was a stabbing death. So it goes to the point we've been talking about is that it is the heart of an individual, not the weapons. People who are bent on this kind of violence are going to use whatever weapon they choose to use and no amount of laws is going to stop that.

>> Ed Vitagliano: And by the way, I didn't mean to imply, when I was talking about the left's counter arguments on the issue of guns, that you can't kill people with knives. Because we've seen that increasingly in countries where they have very strict gun laws, where frequently Muslims, are using knives to kill people. In Europe, for example. So that this. Now, this was obviously, as far as we know, not a Muslim involved in the, Rob Reiner, death. Him and his wife Myshel, their son. His son, I don't know if it's their son together. Nick Reiner has been taken into custody. But obviously knives can be very lethal. So I was only, trying to respond to the argument that the. The left makes. And this is a. One of those kind of freakish things that seems to happen, every once in a while where you just go, what? Now, my understanding.

>> Tim Wildmon: What's a freakish thing?

>> Ed Vitagliano: Well, just. Who expects a son to kill his parents? You know, that's. That's a kind of a bizarre thing to have happen. But my understanding is that Nick Reiner, if he is indeed found to be the perpetrator here, has had trouble with drugs and been in and out of rehab. So I don't know what his mental state would have been. Again, he is the. He has been arrested and taken into custody, and we don't know if he's actually the perpetrator.

>> Tim Wildmon: Yeah, it's. Rob Reiner is big name in Hollywood and he's a movie director. many people remember him from the 70s as Meathead on the, comedy show all in the Family.

>> Fred Jackson: Right, Correct.

>> Tim Wildmon: which was very popular, what, for five or six, seven years right there. But Rob Reiner, he went on to, you know, go, as I say, go into, directing. And, he was a outspoken lefty, you know, on many issues. At first I thought, when this story broke, I thought, you know, he's a Jewish. He's of Jewish heritage.

>> Fred Jackson: Yes.

>> Tim Wildmon: Rob Brown. And I thought, I wonder if this is another, you know what I'm saying, targeted killing of a Jewish, prominent Jewish person. But, evidently that's not the case so far. That. What if the police have arrested his, his son as a. That that would make sense because, this looked like a well fortified community, you know what I'm saying?

>> Ed Vitagliano: Right.

>> Tim Wildmon: that he lived in. It was a very, upscale neighborhood there in the Hollywood area.

>> Ed Vitagliano: And by the way, for. For those who are. Maybe the name Rob Reiner doesn't ring a bell.

>> Tim Wildmon: Ah.

>> Ed Vitagliano: You know, our generation certainly remembers him, but you may have heard of movies like A Few Good Men, When Harry Met Sally. I've never seen that one. But the Princess Bride, okay. He directed those movies, and very memorable and very talented, but like you said, politically, very, very left. So a lot of conservatives may have heard of him from that perspective, because he's been very vocal about his criticisms of, ah, President Trump in particular, but Republicans, in general.

Rob Reiner was asked about Charlie Kirk's death a few months ago

>> Tim Wildmon: I was impressed by Rob Reiner's reaction to Charlie Kirk's death a few months ago. You may not remember this, but, Charlie Kirk, of course, conservative. Rob Reiner, liberal. But Rob Reiner was asked about Charlie Kirk's death, and he said, horror, absolute horror. I unfortunately saw the video of it, and it's indescribable. It's, beyond belief. What happened to him, that should never happen to anybody. I don't care what your political beliefs are. That's not acceptable. That's not a solution. He went on to say, I felt like what his wife. That's talking about. Erica, this is Rob Reiner talking about Charlie Kirk's death. I felt like what his wife said at the memorial, they had. Was exactly right. Totally. I believe he said, I'm Jewish, but I believe in the teachings of Jesus. I believe in do unto others, and I believe in forgiveness. And that's what she said. And what she said to me was beautiful, end quote.

>> Ed Vitagliano: And that. That came, by the way. So this is like you're saying a tip of the hat to Rob Reiner at the time, because this was this. He said that when there were a number, a lot of people on the left who were celebrating Charlie Kirk's assassination. And Rob Reiner just, you know, said, this is. This is wrong. And we certainly need more of that kind of discouragement and criticism of violence as an answer to political differences.

>> Fred Jackson: Yeah.

President Trump issued a statement on Twitter about Rob Reiner's death

>> Tim Wildmon: So, this brings us to. I didn't want to have to talk about this, but President Trump issued a, statement through his, True Social, which is like Twitter, and it's almost. I don't even want to read it. So. So ridiculous. is that the right word?

>> Ed Vitagliano: Trump. Trump blames disturbing response.

>> Tim Wildmon: I do. What?

>> Ed Vitagliano: I don't know. I don't know how to characterize it. Go ahead and read it. So our listeners.

>> Tim Wildmon: Do you mean is it worth reading or. No, don't read it.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Well, you got to read it now.

>> Tim Wildmon: Well, he is the President of the United States of America, and he.

>> Ed Vitagliano: This is highly inappropriate.

>> Tim Wildmon: He did this on his own. This is what Trump said on his own about Rob Reiner's death. Hold the break. I'll, just quote it. He said, a very sad thing happened last night in Hollywood. Rob Reiner, a tortured and struggling, but once very talented movie director and comedy star, has passed away together with his wife Myshel, reportedly due to the anger he caused others through his massive, unyielding, and incurable affliction with a mind crippling disease known as Trump Derangement Syndrome, referred to sometimes as tds. He was known to have driven people crazy by his raging obsession of President Donald J. Trump. With this. This is Trump talking in third person. With his obvious paranoia reaching new heights as the Trump administration surpassed all goals and expectations of greatness. And with the golden age of America upon us, perhaps like never before, may Rob and Myshel rest in peace.

>> Ed Vitagliano: You know, I, when you read that to me this morning, I had not seen it over the weekend. I, couldn't. I couldn't believe it. Now, listen, we have a lot of listeners. I'm very. I've voted for Donald Trump twice. well, agree. Three times. and I like the, the vast majority of what President Trump has done in office. But, and so, folks, you can take this the way you want, but nobody should say that, after a tragedy like this, that the only appropriate response to what happened to Rob and Myshel Reiner is to say nothing at all. But since you're the president, you say, this is a tragic thing. Our thoughts and prayers are with the family of Rob and Myshel Reiner. And like Rob Reiner said, this is, this is not the response to political differences. And President Trump made it sound like they were killed because they had tds. And I'm not trying to be overly critical of the president, but that's, that's inappropriate and wildly. It's. Yes, wildly inappropriate. Why, why say this?

>> Tim Wildmon: Well, that's warped. That's just. I don't know how else to say.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Christians cannot excuse that and say, well, whatever he says, I'm, in favor. If you're a Christian, you just got to say there are, there are things we all do that are right and the things that we all do that are wrong. And listen, when I do something wrong, the Lord lets me know about it and my wife lets me know about it, or my pastor lets me know about it. Christians have to be able to separate their political beliefs with. From inappropriate.

>> Tim Wildmon: Yeah, he's saying that. That Reiner and his wife were killed because they had tds.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Yes.

>> Tim Wildmon: I don't know. All right, we'll be back momentarily. Stay with us.

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>> Jeff Chamblee: This is today's issues. Email your comments to commentsfr.net past broadcasts of today's issues are available for listening and viewing in the [email protected] now back to more of today's Issues.

Rob Reiner and his wife murdered in their own home yesterday

>> Tim Wildmon: Hey, welcome back, everybody, to Today's Issues on the American Family Radio Network. Tim, Ed and Fred. Sad day, for humanity, so to speak. All the stories we're having to talk about. We, we've talked about Rob Reiner, the, actor and director, in Hollywood, getting, murdered. He and his wife were murdered in their own home. evidently, his son has been arrested. Nick, one of his sons has. I think he has more than one son, but his son has been arrested for that. And, then we talked about Brown University in, Rhode island, where we had a shooter go in and kill two people, injure four or six more, something like that over the weekend. That was here in the US and then, internationally, we had what happened in Australia with how many? How many?

>> Fred Jackson: 15 killed there and 38 injured.

>> Tim Wildmon: Okay. And it was a, Hanukkah celebration on a beach in Australia. It's summertime there.

>> Fred Jackson: Yes.

>> Tim Wildmon: Yeah. in Australia. And they were mowed down by,

>> Ed Vitagliano: Father and a son.

>> Tim Wildmon: Father and a son.

>> Fred Jackson: Yeah. Which is leading to a lot of talk about the rise of anti Semitism around the world. There's another story just, out of Germany this morning. Five, Muslims arrested. There in an Islamist motivated plot to attack a Christmas market there. And the authorities there say these three Moroccans, an Egyptian and an Assyrian were detained on Friday on suspicion of planning to drive a vehicle into a Christmas market, in the district of Bavaria. So we're talking about, you know, the immediate reaction of the left to what happened in Australia. Gun laws. We need stricter gun laws. Well, we had the tragic stabbing to death of Rob Reiner and his wife yesterday. Now it's a vehicle being used and we've seen this before among Islamic terrorists. There was the incident in Paris back a few years ago. And I've got to tell you, we've been dealing a lot. When I'm saying we afr news with the rise in anti Semitism in this country too. We've seen it on our university campuses. but also I was reading a story in, Toronto, Canada, I believe it was, where a woman had gotten into an Uber. She was getting a drive from the airport and she was Jewish and she was talking to her husband in Hebrew on the phone. Talking to her husband in Hebrew. The Uber driver kicked her out, said, get out of my car.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Because she's Jewish.

>> Fred Jackson: Because she's Jewish. This is happening m more and more and more. So the problem is the problem of the heart. It's not the vehicle used, the gun used, whatever the case may be, but it's what's going on. It's global. I saw one phrase being used. the anti, Jewish movement gone globally. around the world. We're seeing this more and more. And as Christians we see a, a very direct connection spiritually to all of this.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Well, I was looking at a Fox News story, and this is having to do with what happened, at Sydney's Bondi Beach. her name is, I think it's a she. Ah, Dion Taylor, communications manager of the Australia Israel Jewish Affairs Council, blaming the government in, Australia for not, not heading this off, that they have been warning for, several years now about what is happening. And she's. It is, it is a woman. Ms. Taylor said it started with hate speech, then graffiti, then public demonstrations, then firebombing synagogues, preschools, people's homes, people's cars, and now murder. And she said that Jewish leaders, community representatives, repeatedly raising alarms with state and federal officials and criticizing the governments for not heading this off and dealing with it as these things, escalated. And to your point, about the biblical realities of this, we can speculate. I, I don't want to Pretend that I know what's in the mind of God and how he is moving, in the earth. But it, it seems like we're getting to the stage where Jews are not going to be safe anywhere they're go. And, and you may see more Jews moving to Israel from Europe, from places like Australia, maybe eventually from the United States going back to Israel because they are not safe. And don't forget, a lot of this anti Semitism worldwide occurred because of the Hamas attack on Israel.

>> Fred Jackson: Yeah.

>> Ed Vitagliano: On 10-7-20. Was it 2023?

>> Fred Jackson: 2020.

>> Ed Vitagliano: 2020. so, and, and Israel has to fight to defend itself. And that has caused the, this anti Semitism to explode.

>> Fred Jackson: As we're sitting here talking, folks, we monitor various news agencies. There is a live news conference going on right now. The FBI in Los Angeles just brought it up here. FBI STOPS Plan NewSong Year's Eve Los Angeles Terror attack by pro Palestinian Cell and they're just talking about this in a live news conference from Los Angeles as we're sitting here. So this is happening, city to city across the world right now, this anti Semitism, and it's what bothers. Well, you know, you talked spiritually, but, you know, it's. And the excuses that are often given. Well, it's just a small group of people that are doing this. We had two US Soldiers killed in Syria on the weekend by Islamic, isis. That was. The mainstream media does not help things. They think, you know, they're afraid to use the word Muslim, Islamic, terrorist attack, all of this sort of thing. Even the headlines that I'm reading up there are saying terror attack. This, this story that I'm reading here, is from the NewSong York Post. They are at least saying it's a pro Palestinian cell. So this is happening all over the world.

>> Tim Wildmon: Yeah.

There has been an increase in attacks on Jewish people around the world

Well, okay, can I. Let me offer a reason for this. And I'm just offering a possible reason for this. And that is the, increase in attacks on Jewish people around the world. and you forget, was it a few months ago in Washington D.C. that Jewish couple came out of the museum.

>> Fred Jackson: Yes.

>> Tim Wildmon: And they were mowed down.

>> Fred Jackson: Yes.

>> Tim Wildmon: Because they were Jews. They, it was,

>> Fred Jackson: And after. They were messianic Jews. They were, they were Christian Jews. Yeah.

>> Tim Wildmon: But the threats are around, around the globe right now. It seems like it's more and more. this is a, this is not an excuse. This is a reason why this may be happening more now. well, okay, so what happened in Israel after Israel was attacked on October 7, 2023? 2023. And you had 1100 people murdered. Then Israel retaliated against Hamas in Gaza and Israel. Ah, Israel unleashed on Gaza and, innocent. When I say innocent people, I'm talking about non combatants. I'm talking about women and children who. Because Hamas mixes in in Gaza. It's a very small place, relatively speaking, and so they mix in with the population, the general population. So it makes it inevitable that if Israel is going to go after Hamas, the women and children and innocent people are going to die. That's a sad reality, but that's just the truth of the matter. Otherwise, Israel is left with, just sitting there going, well, we can't do anything to protect ourselves or defend ourselves because a bomb we use may kill people, who are non combatants. Does that make sense?

>> Ed Vitagliano: Yeah.

>> Tim Wildmon: You follow me here?

>> Ed Vitagliano: Yeah.

>> Tim Wildmon: So Israel is in a very tough situation right there, in terms of having to decide day after day after day what to bomb, who to go after, who to shoot, who do you know, where do you send your troops? and that causes the people there in Gaza, 2 million of them, basically, they're living in squalor. they have no, they have no hope. There's nowhere. And so those videos, of those people gain sympathy around the world. When you see a lot of them are AI generated, by the way, phony and phony. but they get sympathy around the world and they, who they blame on the videos. And who does the world blame? They blame Israel. The Jews. Right. So the Jews. Here's the scenario, here's the, narrative that the Jews are killing the Arabs in Gaza, and they're doing so unmercifully, and they're doing so indiscriminately and they're, it's there. so there's no talk of. Okay, let's go back to what started this. The, you know, it almost started immediately that Israel was not supposed to respond. And when they started responding, remember the condemnation. Genocide started the word genocide started to come up against, against Israel. my opinion of this is that once you unleash a, if you murder 1100 or 1200 people, as citizens of a country like Israel, really, you have no right to dictate the terms of the ceasefire. I mean, you really, you really are in no position, Hamas, to say, stop, because you're killing too many of our people. You understand what I'm saying? I wish nobody get killed. I mean, it's terrible. I mean, it's heartbreaking to see any, to see the people in Palestine, and the Gaza Strip Walking around and, you know, like I said, they're living.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Like you said before, they're living in rubble.

>> Tim Wildmon: They're living in rubble. They got nothing. They got no hope, they got no future. And yet they still. And also, you got to remember they are taught to hate the Jews from the time they're 2 years old. so I remember back in the 80s, and this goes back decades and decades. If not, I don't know, maybe more than that. I remember in the 80s, my wife was, teaching at a, we were going to school at Mississippi State University and she was teaching at a preschool that had, international students.

>> Tim Wildmon: Bring their children there.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Yeah.

>> Tim Wildmon: So they dropped their children off and big kids, from around the world, United nations there that she would teach. And she came home. Allison did one day for me and she said, you know what strangest thing happened at school today? She said, I got this three and four year old, or four and five year old, and they're Arabs. And, they started. We gave them colors and a piece of paper and, you know, it's coloring time here. Yeah. And, she said they drew a Star of David and then they had guns. Then they drew guns, they drew rockets going at the Star of David. Are you following me here?

>> Ed Vitagliano: Yeah.

>> Tim Wildmon: And I said, what? I said, So I said, yeah, sadly, they're being taught at home to hate Israel at a very, very young age. That's a true story. Obviously, I'm not making it up or I wouldn't tell it.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Right.

>> Tim Wildmon: That really happened. This goes back to the 80s. My point is that the children, of, the are taught to hate Israel because they're taught hate the Jews. And when you are, a victim of a bombing in Gaza and your family gets killed and you're going to say, who did this? Well, Israel did. You're going to hate them.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Right.

>> Tim Wildmon: That's just human nature.

The hatred between Israelis and Palestinians is so great, it's hard to overlook

So, I don't know, short of Jesus Christ coming back to earth and please come, Lord Jesus. Bible says Amen to bring peace on earth. And it's ironic we're having to discuss this around the celebration of the Prince of Peace coming to earth, but the hatred there between those peoples is so great, it's hard to look forward and say this is going to be worked out and ironed out anytime soon. I'm, thankful for the ceasefire that's going on here. but Israel had to, you know, they had to take out another Hamas leader the other day. Well, that's going to cause a retaliation from the other side now, we'll say this, and I don't agree with this, but I think you need, I think people need to understand this. If you were to say to the Hamas, or to, the people, in Gaza, the Arabs there, even people in the surrounding countries, or people who hate the Jews and Israelis around the world, you were to say, okay, October, 7th, 2023, is when this all started. They're going to say, no, no, this started prior to that. Why do you think Hamas killed the Jews? Because the Jews were already boxing the, Palestinians into this small area. They were living in squalor. they had no hope for any kind of a future.

>> Ed Vitagliano: So they took Palestinian land.

>> Tim Wildmon: What?

>> Ed Vitagliano: They took Palestinian land?

>> Tim Wildmon: Yes. Yes. They put to us all this build up. They're going to tell you that Israel started this prior to October 7th. I'm just telling you what they're going to say. And, so then, so now genocide is the word being used.

Fred Blank: I think it's political, driven by spiritual forces

Fred, let me ask you this. Is this all political or do you think this is biblical, or spiritual in some way? Because this doesn't involve Christians per se. We're talking about. The Jews don't believe in Christ either.

>> Fred Jackson: No.

>> Tim Wildmon: Okay, so how is this, do you think this is somehow biblical or spiritual in nature?

>> Fred Jackson: I think it's political, driven by, spiritual forces. Political in that, you have two factions of people. the Palestinians, as you have pointed out, teaching their kids from a very young age that the source of all the problems of the Palestinians is the Jewish people. Well, that's about as far from reality as possible. Israel doesn't start the wars. They defend themselves. Gaza, prior to October 7, 2023, the economy was thriving. Gaza was thriving. There were people from Gaza who traveled every day into Israel. They had jobs there, they go there for medical treatment. But it's the element of the Hamas and the Hezbollah. They hate the Jewish people from the river to the sea. They want Israel wiped off the face of the earth. But they also hate Christians, and particularly Christians in America, because Christians in America, evangelical Christians in America, love the Jewish people, love the nation of Israel and support it. And all of that is a spiritual element. It goes back to scripture, and the Jews being God's chosen people. Yes. Do they need a savior? Do they need Jesus Christ as their savior? Of course they do. But they, you know, it goes back to the Bible and biblical truth of where we are. We believe that God is not through with the Jewish people, and that there is going to be a great Revival amongst the Jewish people someday. But it is, I, believe it is satanic driven hatred of the Jewish people and, and of Christians who support the Jewish people. So that is the spiritual genesis of all of this.

>> Tim Wildmon: All right, you're listening to Today's Issues. That's the name of the show on the American Family Radio Network. Tim, Ed and Fred, you were going to say Ed?

>> Ed Vitagliano: Yeah, I was just going to just add to. I agree with everything that Fred said. But, it's like when you talk about what does Satan have to do. Why would Satan hate the, the Jewish people? Well, for the same reason why Satan hates unborn babies.

>> Tim Wildmon: Yes.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Okay. The, the, our, spiritual enemy hates anybody created in God's image and he hates anybody who has put their faith and trust in God. So Christians and Satan hates the Jewish people because God has made a promise to, to the Jewish people. The Bible has specific prophetic declarations about the future of the Jewish people. And if Satan can try to obliterate the Jewish people, then God's promise fails. And I think that is at least a partial explanation of why Satan puts such hatred in the hearts of people against the Jewish people. And I would say one additional thing. There's a general spiritual principle here, and that is that when people, like leaders in Hamas or Hezbollah or isis, and they are constantly feeding you ideas to make you hate a person enough to kill Jewish people and then they respond and they kill your father or they kill your son or they kill your brother in war wartime, that naturally is going to make you hate those people for a very, very long time. So there's specific reasons for this kind of spiritual hostility, to the Jews. And then there's just the general kind of hostility.

>> Tim Wildmon: But you know, you're exactly right. This doesn't happen in the abstract, this hatred, which is irrational sometimes. but still, I'm thinking about, I read about the Civil War and I was reading a journal of people who lived in the south is some people who lived in the south and they were looking at the Civil War not by the justice of the cause that the two sides were representing, that is the north, against slavery, the south wanting to maintain slavery. Now I don't want, Please don't email me about. No, it's states rights. Okay, well, it's. Yes, it was states rights to defend slavery. Okay. So that was, that was a big part of it. I'm just saying. But these people were not in the, they were not this journal that I was reading from, from a Southerner's perspective was not about the overall cause of justice.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Right.

>> Tim Wildmon: For the slaves or anything like that or the overall there it was much more minute in their thinking. These Yankees, these Blankety Yankees, came in and killed my family and took our land. And they didn't say oh, but they did it for a good reason. Right. You know what I'm saying? They said no. And what they're doing to our farmers and our people is savagery and his butchery and is. I hate them that, that kind of thing. They talk about the Union. Yeah. Union forces. So when that happens to you, you don't care about anything else but who killed my family.

>> Ed Vitagliano: A ah, Yankee laid them in his grave the night they drove Odixi down that line. So that's why you listen. That's why Apaches hated white people and then Apaches responded by killing and scalping and whatever and kidnapping and then white people hated the Apaches back. That's just the gut reaction.

>> Tim Wildmon: Right.

>> Ed Vitagliano: When someone killed and the, and the.

>> Tim Wildmon: Indian tribes hated each other.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Yes. That's, that's at the. All the way back to Cain killing Abel.

>> Tim Wildmon: Yeah.

>> Ed Vitagliano: He, he hated his brother and murdered him. Because X, Y or Z, everybody has their reasons.

>> Tim Wildmon: That's why Jesus warns against hatred of the heart.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Yes.

>> Tim Wildmon: And likens it to murder because I mean if you read the sermon, on the Mount, Jesus says if you have hate in your heart, it's as if you've committed the sin of murder.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Yes. So even just anger, he says, just, Jesus, I don't want to run out of time here a minute to.

>> Tim Wildmon: Tell us 2000 years of Christian teaching.

>> Ed Vitagliano: So when we were, when we were talking about what President Trump wrote, this is why I, I criticized it is because Jesus says if you call your brother and he gives him, he says a name, you call your brother a name. Empty head. Okay, stupid, you're guilty enough to go to hell.

Christians need to remember we cannot water down the teachings of Jesus for political purposes

Christians need to remember we cannot water down the teachings of Jesus for political expediency. We can root for a political approach to our problems without watering down what Jesus says. Because Jesus is very clear about how dangerous it is to hate people and to be angry at people and call them names.

>> Tim Wildmon: Yeah. all right, we'll be back momentarily. thank you, Fred.

>> Fred Jackson: You're welcome.

>> Tim Wildmon: We'll be back with Steve Paisley Jordahl in five minutes. Stay with us. The views and opinions expressed in this broadcast may not necessarily reflect those of the American Family association or American Family Radio.