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Welcome to Today's Issues on the American Family Radio Network
>> Tim Wildmon: Welcome to Today's Issues, offering a Christian response to the issues of the day. Here's your host, Tim Wildmon, president of the American Family Association. Hey, good morning, everybody, and welcome to Today's Issues on the American Family Radio Network. Thanks for listening to AFR on this Tuesday, May 13, 2025. Joining me in studio is, Fred Jackson. Good morning, Fred.
>> Fred Jackson: Good morning, Tim.
>> Tim Wildmon: And Chris Woodward.
>> Christopher Woodward: Good morning.
>> Tim Wildmon: And joining us from Kansas City, ks, is Ray Pritchard. Good morning, Ray.
>> Tim Wildmon: Good morning, Tim. How are you doing today?
>> Tim Wildmon: I'm doing, I'm doing good. you were given a weather report earlier to, Brent, our producer here.
>> Tim Wildmon: Oh, listen, it's, this is, this is really more like late June weather here in Kansas City. It's sunny, skies. There's not a cloud around. And it's going to be 88 or 89 degrees today and 90 something tomorrow. So farewell to winter. It's long gone, baby. Long gone.
>> Tim Wildmon: you still, riding your bike?
>> Tim Wildmon: Yes, I have been. I dusted it off and pulled it out over the weekend and had been riding some. I had kind of honestly put it aside a little bit the last several months and I'm back on, back on the wheels now.
>> Fred Jackson: Okay, well, yeah, his weather is the opposite of what we're experiencing here in our home base, Tupelo.
>> Tim Wildmon: Yeah, we've got rain cloud on top of us for like five days.
>> Fred Jackson: It's parked.
>> Tim Wildmon: It's like biblical.
>> Christopher Woodward: When it stops, we're all going to break out in heavenly sunlight.
>> Tim Wildmon: Yeah. I don't know. You look at the radar, it's just really strange. It's just sitting on top of us here. But I, don't know. they're sending the camp, but we don't know where.
>> Tim Wildmon: That's right. That's right. Somebody really messed up. It's like, we don't, we don't know who.
>> Tim Wildmon: It's like a, like a, I don't know, just, you know how these weather patterns sometimes just repeat themselves and Just it, just like, you know.
>> Fred Jackson: Yeah, just it keeps, it parks itself over a low pressure system, rain after.
>> Tim Wildmon: Rain after rain after rain. Anyway, it'll clear off here before long, dry out and, we'll be hoping for rain and all that.
>> Fred Jackson: That's right. That's right.
>> Tim Wildmon: We wish. And where is the rain in August? All right, thank you for listening to American Family Radio. Dr. Frank Turek will join us momentarily. We look forward to visiting with Frank, as we always do. and, the first news story we have though is, president United States, right?
President Donald Trump is in Saudi Arabia today making business deals
>> Christopher Woodward: Yes. President of the United States Donald Trump is in Saudi Arabia today. As a matter of fact, Fox and msnbc, whole bunch of news outlets seem to think he might be delivering remarks later this hour from Saudi Arabia. But in the meantime, the president is over there wheeling and dealing. He's already promised, big business deals, big, beautiful business deals, between, the U.S. and Saudi Arabia. It's actually a who's who of people. Elon Musk is over there, but also companies like Coca Cola. And I can say that based on things like, Sean Hannity, Fox News personality Sean Hannity. he's over there as part of this, tour, from or featuring the President. I've got some audio from Sean Hannity right now. clip nine.
>> Tim Wildmon: I sat next to one of the cabinet members and he's one of the longest serving cabinet members in Saudi Arabia. Their overwhelming desire is for peace in the region. And their overwhelming belief is that the person that is best able to bring that together is going to be President Trump. And there's a reason why that the Saudis have committed over $1 trillion in investment in the United States to have all their top ministers, all their top business people, every American, I mean, from Coca Cola on down and Steve Schwarzman. I could run through the, the list of people that were in this room. It was a who's who. And to see the desire to have a great business working relationship that benefits both countries. That seems to be where their focus is now.
>> Christopher Woodward: I'm going to post a picture or an article on our Today's Issues Facebook page because it shows the President's limo rolling up on the Saudi palace and he's being escorted by presumably Saudi security forces on Arabian horses. And they're carrying American flags. They have rolled out the purple carpet, as they call it there in Saudi Arabia for Donald Trump.
>> Fred Jackson: Yeah, part of this, if you can believe it, a trillion dollar deal. there's, they've been involved in the last couple of hours in what they're calling a investment forum. And I just saw a headline there, as we were listening to, the Fox, report there. And, amongst the deals being made now, this is, according to the headline, one of the biggest military deals ever. So I'm assuming that Saudi Arabia, is going to purchase a bunch of, I don't know, fighter jets, other military equipment from the United States, but we're talking a trillion dollars in deals. I also saw the headline. It was talking about AI investment, which we know is a big thing these days. So President Trump is supposed, to, I think, have a news conference at some point in the next few hours and maybe he'll lay out a little bit more in detail what these deals that he's been able to acquire today.
>> Tim Wildmon: Now, so these, business leaders of these major corporations, I guess American corporations are their CEOs are in Saudi Arabia along with President Trump to meet with Saudi representatives. Is that right?
>> Christopher Woodward: Yeah, Elon Musk is one of them. I, actually cut that portion out of the Sean Hannity bite, but I can confirm that Elon Musk is there based on photographic evidence.
>> Tim Wildmon: He mentioned the Coca Cola.
>> Fred Jackson: Coca Cola, yep. So, a lot on the table here and we, we've been told the primary purpose of this trip is economic. I think what Trump, is trying to make good on his promise that he's going to make all kinds of deals he's got. Now this, this doesn't involve my understanding this, these deals that we're hearing today there in Saudi Arabia do not involve tariffs and that kind of thing. This is a straight up business deals. Saudis investing in American companies, purchasing perhaps military equipment, that kind of thing.
>> Tim Wildmon: Saudi Arabia, Ray, has 33 million people.
>> Tim Wildmon: Right?
>> Tim Wildmon: That's, is that the size of California, roughly?
>> Tim Wildmon: I think California may be more than that.
>> Tim Wildmon: California, maybe 40, something like that.
>> Tim Wildmon: Yeah, we'll find out here in just a second. But you know, I was thinking, Mr. Trump, he was made for a trip like this. Talk about the art of the deal. This is what the art of the deal is all about. And it coming at a good time because the President is on a roll. He brokered a trade deal with China, worked out some kind of ceasefire between India and Pakistan. And he says the Houthis are going to stop, sending missiles into Israel. And this morning inflation has come in below expectations. So if there's ever a moment for President Trump to shine, this is really, he was born to do what he is doing right now. You know, in Saudi Arabia.
>> Tim Wildmon: I Read a, I think it was this morning I was reading a news article about the. His approval ratings have swung like 15 points in two weeks or something like that, which is unheard of in a presidency that I've never heard of that maybe. But it's because of the reasons you just mentioned. you had the bad news a couple weeks ago with the stock market basically going in the tank and a lot of worry around the world and now about the economic and the trade deals and all that and tariffs. And now that's sort of reversed itself, especially with the at least the 90 day pause in you know, going at each other between China and the United States in terms of the trade.
>> Fred Jackson: And I just heard yesterday how important that 90 day pause is because that's when companies here in the United States purchase the goods that they're going to sell for back to school and for Christmas.
>> Tim Wildmon: Right.
>> Fred Jackson: So this 90 day pause, this is why the stock market just went crazy yesterday.
>> Tim Wildmon: In a good way.
>> Fred Jackson: In a good way. Yeah.
Ray Fischer: Beyond oil, Saudi Arabia produces a wide variety of goods
>> Tim Wildmon: All right. You're listening to today's issues on the American Family Radio Network.
>> Fred Jackson: Just one more point on the, on the Trump, visit there to Saudi Arabia. When you talk about opulence. Wow. you know, and these countries. We talked yesterday about Cotter going to hand over a $400 million 747. Like it's like here, here, here's an extra plane we have. Go ahead. you can have the 747. Well there, and Brett, Bayer of Fox was reporting on this this morning. They have an entertainment district there in Riyadh, where President Trump is. And it has, if you've ever seen pictures of the Las Vegas Strip, big hotels and restaurants and fancy waterfalls and all of that sort of thing they built. Brett Baer was reporting last night. The Saudis built that entertainment area in Riyadh in 115 days. Like apparently it was a piece of desert. And they created all of this in 115 days with 40,000 workers. I've never heard of anything like that before.
>> Tim Wildmon: Well, this is all oil money, right?
>> Fred Jackson: Yeah.
>> Tim Wildmon: I mean, do you know of any other industry, Ray, in Saudi Arabia? Well, except for oil.
>> Tim Wildmon: Do they need any other industry?
>> Tim Wildmon: Evidently not oil. I just find it, the irony of ironies that Elon Musk is over there because he's, he's known for electric cars.
>> Tim Wildmon: Right.
>> Tim Wildmon: Which don't use oil. Yes, go ahead, Chris.
>> Christopher Woodward: Yeah. Saudi. Beyond oil, Saudi Arabia produces a wide variety of goods, including petrochemicals cement, steel and manufactured goods.
>> Tim Wildmon: Okay.
>> Christopher Woodward: They also have minerals, they're. They're big into gold, copper, phosphate.
>> Tim Wildmon: Is sand a mineral?
>> Christopher Woodward: It should be. if it's not, because they have plenty of that.
Ray: The danger in the Middle East is not between Iran and Saudi Arabia
By the way, what did you say your high was going to be today, Ray?
>> Tim Wildmon: 88.
>> Christopher Woodward: Okay. So Donald Trump, our president, is wearing a big suit, over there. And the high today is 106.
>> Tim Wildmon: Hello, Fahrenheit.
>> Christopher Woodward: Yeah. The low is 85.
>> Tim Wildmon: Yeah. But it's a dry heat.
>> Christopher Woodward: Yeah. Yeah.
>> Tim Wildmon: you know, here's the interesting thing too, is a lot of people think, well, the. The, danger in that region is between, Saudi Arabia and Israel, for example, because you have the Muslim, Jewish, clash or the Israeli, Saudi clash, whatever like that. That's actually not the truth. No longer the danger is between Iran and Saudi Arabia or, the Shia and Sunni divisions in the, religion of Islam. actually, Saudi Arabia has gotten along really well with the Israelis, as have other neighboring countries like Egypt and Jordan. of course we know what's happened in Lebanon. The country itself has been basically hijacked by the, Hezbollah terrorist organization. But I'm just saying that, I think if, in fact, Ray, we, the United States, are going to.
>> Tim Wildmon: Fighter jets and other military, equipment to Saudi Arabia, it would be, I would think, not to be used against Israel, but our neighboring country. Of course, no guarantee on that. But, it would be to. In response to, the tensions that Iran poses. Right.
>> Tim Wildmon: Well, the Saudis understand the number one problem, the number one danger, the number one locus of evil in the Middle East. It's not in Jerusalem, not in Tel Aviv. It's not in Amman, it's not in Beirut. It's in Tehran. It's not in Iraq. Iraq's not the player that it was 20 years ago. The source of the danger in the Middle east is in Iran. And I think the Saudis would like to make some kind of, I don't know what you would call it, some kind of peace treaty, some kind of arrangement with Israel where the nations, officially accepted each other.
>> Tim Wildmon: Don't they have the Abraham Accords?
>> Fred Jackson: Yeah, that came about.
>> Tim Wildmon: Yeah, you know, I'm talking about.
>> Tim Wildmon: Right, right, right, right, right. And I think. I think that, it's altogether in the US's interest to facilitate a friendly relationship between the Saudis and the Israelis because they have a common foe, and that's the Iranians.
>> Tim Wildmon: Let me ask you this, Ray, just not to divert too much into the religious aspect. Of this. But still a lot of Americans just think, well, they're all Muslims over there in that part of the world. You know, if they're not Israelis and they're not Jews, they're all Muslims. I'm talking about in the Middle East. Right, but, but actually the Sunni, the Sunni branch of Islam and the Shia branch of Islam, they don't like each other. They consider each other cults, don't they?
>> Tim Wildmon: Well, that's exactly right. And it goes back, it's really genealogy. It's which branch has the, quote, true claim.
>> Tim Wildmon: Right.
>> Tim Wildmon: Going all the way back to Muhammad. And the Sunnis say one thing and the Shias say another. And it's not like we're talking 50. 50 here. The number of, of Sunni Muslims vastly.
>> Tim Wildmon: 80. 20.
>> Tim Wildmon: Yeah, 80, 20 vastly outnumbers the Shias, who therefore are very resentful toward the Sunnis. And that is, that is part of the fracture inside the Middle East. It's part of the fracture between the Saudis and Iran.
>> Tim Wildmon: So the Islam, in, in Iran is Shia, but they call Shia and the Islam in much of the Middle east, including Saudi Arabia and the other Arab countries would be Sunni, so.
>> Tim Wildmon: Exactly right.
>> Tim Wildmon: So that's, that's what, that's what we have going on here.
Donald Trump is in Saudi Arabia talking to Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman
But the big news is again, the, again the big news is that the president, I say Donald Trump is in Saudi Arabia, talking all kind of things with, issues with the, Is it called, Fred, is it called the Crown prince?
>> Fred Jackson: Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, but what.
>> Tim Wildmon: Do you think Donald Trump calls him?
>> Christopher Woodward: Ben.
>> Tim Wildmon: You think he calls him that?
>> Christopher Woodward: Probably, yeah.
>> Tim Wildmon: hey, call me Ben.
>> Fred Jackson: Yeah, maybe Mo.
>> Christopher Woodward: Yeah.
>> Tim Wildmon: But but anyway.
Donald Trump is making a four day trip to the Middle East
All right, so Chris, is there any, is the president, how long is he going to be in, by the way? just, you mentioned I would encourage people, if they can, to watch that video of the horses. Yeah, you have these Saudi Arabian, Arabian. Beautiful horses. And they're escorting the President's motorcade up to the palace, I guess, to meet with the Crown prince.
>> Christopher Woodward: Yeah, yeah, I posted that link. It's a New York Post article, but.
>> Tim Wildmon: It has pretty impressive. With the American flags, the horses.
>> Christopher Woodward: Yeah, it's a four day trip to the Middle East. this is the first stop. He's also going to be spending some time with the United Arab Emirates, which I learned today are called Emirates.
>> Tim Wildmon: the Emirates.
>> Christopher Woodward: Yeah, the people from the United Arab Emirates.
>> Tim Wildmon: And then he's also used to live down the street.
>> Christopher Woodward: They could.
>> Tim Wildmon: Yeah, they, yeah, emeritus. They moved.
>> Christopher Woodward: They're gonna have be. They're gonna have big business deals there.
>> Tim Wildmon: As well at the uae. UAE M is very similar to Saudi Arabia. They're also they're neighbors.
>> Fred Jackson: Yes.
>> Tim Wildmon: they're also Sunni Muslim and they're also. Where is Dubai, Ray? Where's Dubai? Isn't that. Who knows here?
>> Tim Wildmon: It's on the peninsula. Right.
>> Tim Wildmon: But it's, it's a part of the uae, right? It's within the UAE or is it Kuwait? It's not Kuwait.
>> Christopher Woodward: It is part of the uae. It's situated the Persian Gulf. It's
>> Tim Wildmon: But I'm seeing Dubai is a city within the uae, right?
>> Tim Wildmon: Yes, right, yes.
>> Christopher Woodward: But it all buildings there.
>> Tim Wildmon: But that is a. How did that, how did that, how did that grow up out of the desert? Right. You know, I mean I know it's oil money, but go ahead.
>> Tim Wildmon: You know anything about it? What else are we going to say besides that it's oil money and it's right there on the Gulf. It's a perfect location.
>> Tim Wildmon: It's like a beautiful city.
>> Tim Wildmon: Sure.
>> Tim Wildmon: I mean yeah.
>> Fred Jackson: If you want to see good pictures of it. One of the last Mission Impossible movies.
>> Fred Jackson: Tom Cruise.
>> Tim Wildmon: Oh yeah. He scale Denise.
>> Fred Jackson: That was scary watching that.
>> Tim Wildmon: Yeah, yeah. He's that building which is the tallest building in the world.
>> Fred Jackson: I believe so.
>> Tim Wildmon: Dubai.
>> Christopher Woodward: Yeah.
>> Tim Wildmon: Right.
>> Fred Jackson: He was. Some of it I'm told was real. Some of this stuff outside.
>> Tim Wildmon: Tom Cruise is
>> Fred Jackson: Oh, Tom Cruise is crazy when it comes to doing his own stuff. but that gave you a pretty good idea of the, the depth and breadth of that city. It's incredible.
>> Tim Wildmon: Fred, what are you saying? We can't trust everything that comes out of Hollywood. It's not all real.
>> Fred Jackson: I have read stories about Tom Cruise and his stunts. He insists on doing a lot of.
>> Christopher Woodward: Those in the what is supposed to be his final Mission Impossible that's coming out. He hangs off an airplane mid flight with no attachment.
>> Fred Jackson: He's done that before.
>> Christopher Woodward: Yeah. By the way, the big tall building there.
>> Tim Wildmon: Tell us Donald Trump's going to do that while he's over there.
>> Fred Jackson: I don't think so.
>> Christopher Woodward: Secret Service might say no hanging off an airplane.
>> Tim Wildmon: No, no, no net.
>> Fred Jackson: He might pay somebody else to do it.
>> Christopher Woodward: J.D. you get out there. You're the number two.
>> Fred Jackson: You're an ex marine. Get out there.
>> Christopher Woodward: The the big tall building out there in Dubai is Burj Khalifa, if I said that correctly. Dubai also has a man made island called Palm Jamira.
>> Tim Wildmon: I've often wondered is there are that Are all those offices filled all the way to the top of the building or is it just made they work remotely? Looks anyway, they work remotely now too.
Fred Kaplan says President Trump will not stop in Israel during Saudi Arabia trip
Big deal going on in, Saudi Arabia. Well, anyway, what is going to ask you, you said the President will be leaving there whenever he does next day or two, going to the UAE, which is probably 30 minute flight from Riyadh or that's where he is today, right?
>> Christopher Woodward: Yes.
>> Tim Wildmon: and then, and then where, where.
>> Fred Jackson: I'm not sure if he's going to pick up the airplane, but.
>> Tim Wildmon: Oh, the, the, the free airplane they're wanting to give him. Yeah, 400. The floating. The Flying Palace.
>> Fred Jackson: Yes.
>> Tim Wildmon: Now what about that, Fred? What do we know about that? Because, some people are accusing President Trump of taking a gift from a foreign.
>> Fred Jackson: Well, the white, the White House has made it clear if he accepts this, he's accepting it on the part of the Defense Department because it will become, the new Air Force One until Boeing at some point, completes the order for the two new Air Force ones, which we're told it could take till 2029. So this is, this, the existing Air force one is 40 years old. Ah. And they're looking for a new Air Force One. This particular plane I think is around 11 years old, that Qatar is offering to the United States.
>> Tim Wildmon: Well, they're really, we're watching the video on tv. They're really rolling out the red carpet. That's what they have over there. Purple, purple carpet for President Trump and for the American team, including a lot of top level business people that are in, in Saudi Arabia for this, for this meeting between, this meeting between the US And Saudi Arabia. All right, well, we will keep you posted there. If anything new breaks, between, he's not scheduled to stop in Israel, right?
>> Christopher Woodward: Not at this time.
>> Fred Jackson: And that's. We just discussed this at our newsroom story meeting this morning. I wonder how Israel is feeling about this. This is the President's first trip abroad during this, since the election and he's not making a stop in Israel. Some people are scratching their heads a little bit about that.
>> Tim Wildmon: I wonder if he'll make one though. it wouldn't be unlike Donald Trump to announce this afternoon he's going to be stopping in Tel Aviv on the.
>> Fred Jackson: Way back, and he may make a stop on Thursday in Turkey. Well, this other meeting, well, I don't.
>> Tim Wildmon: You know, I don't take, I personally don't take anything from that. There's been no better friend to Israel than Donald Trump. That is correct, as president United States. And, Mike Huckabee now is the ambassador there. you know, I mean, so I don't. I just think President Trump went to Saudi Arabia because that's a big business partner with the US and those other Arab countries. And he can go. Right. He can go to Israel. He might do. He might, he, might surprise us was an announcement, but he may do Israel another time.
>> Tim Wildmon: You got all these security concerns if you're going to go to Israel.
>> Tim Wildmon: Yes.
>> Tim Wildmon: You know, you're with, with the problem, the problem down in Gaza. It wouldn't surprise me if Israel is on the schedule, but for security reasons has not been announced. And it will appear as if he just swooped out of the sky.
>> Tim Wildmon: Right. And it would be, difficult, you know, the president could, President Trump, having been in Israel myself many times, to go to Ben Gurion Airport would be okay, and then go maybe somewhere in Tel Aviv. But if you're going to go to Jerusalem. I don't know when the last time a US President went to Jerusalem, a sitting US President went to Jerusalem. Do you know? I can't remember.
>> Tim Wildmon: Was Trump there? Would they move the. Maybe he was when they opened the embassy.
>> Fred Jackson: When they did the embassy, I think he was.
>> Tim Wildmon: I don't know. What kind of alert are we getting here? I'm hearing something here.
>> Christopher Woodward: Oh, I've got it right here. Oh, yeah, he visited there in May of 2017 during.
>> Tim Wildmon: President Trump did. While he was in.
>> Christopher Woodward: Yeah, he became the first US President to visit the Western Wall in the Old City.
>> Tim Wildmon: Okay, well, that's right.
>> Tim Wildmon: That's right.
>> Tim Wildmon: Okay, well, good for him.
>> Fred Jackson: Yes.
>> Tim Wildmon: See there, he's, That's a, that's good to note. But what I'm saying is, Tel Aviv, even the surrounding area is a very modern city, and you would be able to navigate the roads for a presidential, motorcade. You get in Jerusalem, you forget that.
>> Tim Wildmon: Right.
>> Tim Wildmon: Jerusalem is a older, ancient city, obviously, and many of the roads were, I'm talking about inside the city. many of the roads were built, you know, as they went along. So they're windy, curvy, and it's just not, a good situation for security purposes. If you're gonna, if you're gonna wind through the streets of Jerusalem. You agree with that, Ray?
>> Tim Wildmon: Yeah. You, you, you can't put the president in those winding, narrow streets. Something bad could happen.
>> Tim Wildmon: Yeah. So, if it's gonna. Now, unless it's scouted out and in 2017, President did go the Western Wall, but that's not an easy thing to do. We'll be back momentarily. Frank Turek will be on with us. Stay with us.
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>> Frank Turek: Of today's Issues are available for listening.
>> Tim Wildmon: And viewing in the archive@afr.net now back to more of today's Issues.
Today's Issues comes from Dr. Frank Turek on American Family Radio
Hey, welcome back to Today's Issues on the American Family Radio Network. Tim, Fred, Chris and Ray. And we're joined now, by Dr. Frank Turek, host of I Don't have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist. Heard Saturday mornings at 9:00am Central Time and Sunday afternoons at 4:00pm Central Time right here on AFR. good morning, Frank.
>> Frank Turek: How is everybody?
>> Tim Wildmon: We're doing great, man. how about yourself?
>> Frank Turek: Just swell.
>> Tim Wildmon: you got the big golf tournament coming to town, right?
>> Frank Turek: Yeah, I just, was. I just did a podcast with my friend Webb Simpson. He's not in this tournament, but it's right here in, Quail Hollow Golf Club. It's the pga. And, to show you how good I am, Tim M. I had to have my ball retriever regript. That's the. That's the club I use the most.
>> Tim Wildmon: For those who don't know, that's that, it's a long, extension that you use to retrieve your ball from the water or the woods. And that's what Frank's talking About. So Webb Simpson, the professional golf player. He, well, he's well known in the golf world. So he's a personal friend of yours, huh?
>> Frank Turek: Yeah, he lives up here in Charlotte. Good gray, good Christian guy. We just did a podcast with him called, the Bible Caddy Podcast. And it's basically a bunch of professional golfers talking about Jesus. So they just had me on to talk about the evidence for Jesus.
Joe Rogan has questioned the logic of the Big Bang theory
>> Tim Wildmon: Right. Well, I want to set this up. I was, reading an article last night about the podcaster. Speaking of podcasters, Joe. Joe Rogan. Yeah, he is, the number one of the number two podcaster in the world. I believe in terms of downloads. And now I wouldn't recommend his show. I don't listen to it on a regular basis. He uses a lot of profanity, but he has a lot of interesting and thoughtful conversations and topics covered. from what I understand and I do read about what he has to say and I pay attention, because I'm curious what pop culture saying out there. Right. And he is on the leading edge of that. so he has been, he's known as an atheist. I guess he's described himself in that way as an atheist. but recently he had a conversation about God and Jesus and do we want to play this and then let, Frank dive into this?
>> Christopher Woodward: We can do this.
>> Tim Wildmon: What are we going to play here?
>> Christopher Woodward: Well, we've got some audio of Joe Rogan, again, a self described atheist.
>> Tim Wildmon: No profanity. You bleeped it out.
>> Christopher Woodward: Well, Steve cut the bite.
>> Tim Wildmon: Steve did it.
>> Christopher Woodward: We're going to go on faith that it's clean. But, Rogan has questioned the logic of the Big Bang theory, saying the resurrection of Jesus Christ makes far more sense. And in this particular bit of audio that we're going to play, Rogan is talking to a Tic Tac personality by the name of Cody Tucker here. Here is, Mr. Rogan. Clip 11.
>> Tim Wildmon: The difference between science and religion is that science only asks you for one miracle. I want you to believe in one miracle. The Big Bang.
>> Christopher Woodward: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's a good one.
>> Tim Wildmon: It's a great line. It's because it really is true. And it's funny because people would be incredulous about the resurrection of Jesus Christ, but yet they're convinced that the entire universe was smaller than the head of a pen and for no, reason than anybody's adequately explained to me. Makes sense. Yeah, no, it's detaneously became everything. Yeah, yeah, okay.
>> Christopher Woodward: I can't buy that.
>> Tim Wildmon: I'm sticking with Jesus on that one.
>> Fred Jackson: Jesus makes more sense.
>> Tim Wildmon: What's he talking about there, Frank?
>> Frank Turek: Well, he's making a point that we make quite a bit in our book. I don't have enough faith to be an atheist. And when I go to college campuses, I do the same thing to point out that the greatest miracle in the Bible is the first verse. In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. If that verse is true, every other verse is at least believable. Because if God can create the universe out of nothing, he can resurrect Jesus from the dead, he can part the Red Sea, he can walk on water, he can turn water into wine. Because the greatest miracle is the creation of the universe out of nothing. And the interesting thing is that even atheists are admitting the evidence for the greatest miracle. They're admitting that space, time and matter had a beginning out of nothing. My point, and I think Rogan is making this point implicitly or if not explicitly, that if, space, time and matter had a beginning out of nothing, what could have caused that? Only a spaceless, timeless, immaterial, powerful, personal, intelligent creator could have caused that. Because if space, time and matter had a beginning, the cause has to transcend space, time and matter. In other words, it's got to be a spaceless, timeless, immaterial, powerful, personal, intelligent cause to create the universe out of nothing. So, atheists believe in at least one miracle. They believe that nothing created something out of nothing. That's essentially what he's saying. And I actually think it takes more faith to believe that than to believe that someone created something out of nothing. but Tim, atheists believe in more miracles than just the creation of the universe out of nothing. Sure, they believe no one created everything out of nothing, but they also believe that they have to believe that fine tuning arose without a fine tuner because the universe is fine tuned. They have to believe that order and natural laws arose and are sustained without a mind, that life arose from non life without intelligence. They have to believe that DNA, which is in every living thing, which is essentially a software program, arose without a programmer. They have to believe that rationality arose from irrationality. They have to believe that moral laws arose without a lawgiver. They have to believe that consciousness arose from non consciousness. And they have to believe that the personal arose from the non personal. Those would all be miracles. And they have no miracle worker. You know, Christians have a miracle worker. An uncreated, eternal, spaceless, timeless, immaterial, powerful, moral, personal, intelligent mind that created and sustains the entire universe and created what we mentioned earlier, a fine tuned universe, natural laws, life, DNA, rationality, all of those things are better explained by a being such as God than nothing.
>> Tim Wildmon: Why do you think then people who are otherwise intelligent, smart people, would be atheistic?
>> Frank Turek: I mean, well that's why I ask people, if Christianity were true, would you become a Christian? And most atheists will say no because it's not about the head, it's about the heart. They don't want it to be true.
>> Tim Wildmon: Okay.
>> Frank Turek: They don't want there to be a God.
>> Tim Wildmon: They don't want, they don't want somebody, they don't want God telling them how they should live.
>> Frank Turek: Well, that's certainly part of it for many of them. I can't say that's true for everyone.
>> Tim Wildmon: Right, right.
>> Frank Turek: Because you know, let's be fair, a lot of Christians just believe in Christianity because they want to, you know, they can't give you evidence that it's true. They just want it to be true. Now thankfully you can believe something that's true and not know why it's true. Right. But I think atheists are believing something that's false and there's a lot of evidence that God does exist even though they say he doesn't.
>> Tim Wildmon: Yeah. Ray, any thoughts on what we're discussing here?
Ray: I think Joe Rogan is skeptical but curious about religion
>> Tim Wildmon: Yeah, Frank, I want to ask you, circling back to Joe Rogan, it's fascinating where, you know, people call him an atheist but he doesn't sound like quote, the usual antagonistic, hard hearted atheist and even said I'm going to take my side with Jesus in the resurrection, which I don't take as him saying, I believe Jesus rose from the dead. But he seems, what would we call him? a man who is skeptical but curious.
>> Frank Turek: Yeah, I hope so. I think he is curious, Ray. he's had some, you know, Christian apologists on, you know, he's had Steve Meyer on who wrote Signature in the Cell and Return of the God hypothesis. He's had Wes Huff on who's a young apologist up in Canada. you know, so he seems to be open to it, at least at this point maybe. He's certainly moving in that direction hopefully. and you know, I think we all have to remember that we shouldn't expect people to agree with us because we're all at a different point in our own spiritual development. I mean if you go back a certain number of years, you probably didn't believe then what you believe now. Right, right. So why do we expect everyone to agree with what we believe now to be true when maybe 30, 40 years ago, we didn't believe what we believe now. Right. I mean, people often say to me, Frank, you know those kids on college campuses, sometimes they can get a little uppity, they can get a little, a little, unkind. You know, they can get snippy. Why don't you get mad at them? I go like, why would I be mad at a 22 year old kid? You know, I mean, when I was 22, I didn't agree with my 63 year old self, so why should I expect some 22 year old now to agree with what I believe now? Maybe I shouldn't because I don't know where that came from.
>> Tim Wildmon: I think you got the workings of a good country song right there. honestly, it could be why my 22 year old self doesn't agree with my 62 year old self.
>> Frank Turek: I like that man.
>> Tim Wildmon: Yeah, I think you're onto something.
>> Frank Turek: I think that's right in the vein of how can I miss you if you won't go away.
>> Tim Wildmon: That's funny.
>> Frank Turek: And I keep missing you baby but my aim's getting better.
>> Tim Wildmon: That's terrible. Durable. All right, delete that from the, from the show. You know what, I have a lot more respect, I've mentioned this before for somebody who says, I'm an agnostic.
>> Tim Wildmon: In the sense that, I don't know, I don't know exactly about God or Jesus or. I'm open to persuasion, I'm open to reading more, but I respect that a lot more than I do somebody who just shuts it down and says, I'm not even going God doesn't exist. I'm not even going to consider the possibility that he does. or that a God, they would say so.
>> Fred Jackson: Yeah.
>> Tim Wildmon: And I do think the main reason why people would be hardcore atheist, when in light of everything, Frank talked about a few moments ago, which is undeniable, all those things he listed which are really unexplainable outside of a, of a intelligent being creating such, now that doesn't necessarily prove that Jesus Christ is the son of God or the message of Christianity is absolutely true. But it does establish, you have the fact that there is an intelligent mind behind the universe. All those things that Frank listed a few moments ago. But for somebody to say, you know, I think the main reason why people would say I'm an atheist is they don't, they don't want to consider, that God has moral Laws that they have to live by. and this God, is. Is. Is superior. Is a, all knowing, all omnipresent being. So I. Did I. Right. Did I. That makes sense. I'm talking about there, the human heart. The human heart's rebellious against God. Go ahead.
>> Tim Wildmon: Well, it is. And it's as Frank said, you know, if it's true, would you believe it? No. Many times. Because they do not want the moral implications that come with following Christ. And I think, Frank, that the story of Joe Rogan. First of all, we're not to the end of this story, but here's a guy with the number one podcast in the world, in the world, I believe, listened to by multiple million millions of people. And the crazy thing about it is not. Tim, to be clear, it's not as if I'm a frequent listener. But, you know, you pop in here and there with Joe, you can hear almost anything from one podcast to another. So he's had. Right, as you said, Frank, he's had these. He's had these evangelical Christians who very winsomely have explained the gospel to him. And I take it from his comments that he's listening. Which, friends, I think ought to give us encouragement that not everybody who doesn't believe hates the Lord sometimes. They're thinking about it, they're pondering it, and they're on the way, but they just don't know it yet. And we ought to keep on sharing Christ, and we above all, ought to keep on praying.
>> Tim Wildmon: Amen.
Frank Turek going to Michigan this weekend for a men's conference
Well, Frank, where's your next stop? Which college campus you going to now?
>> Frank Turek: Well, college won't, start up again until the fall, but we're going to Michigan, this weekend, near Grand Rapids. Grace Community Church in Hudsonville, Michigan. So I'll be there.
>> Tim Wildmon: We have listeners. We have listeners in Grand Rapids area.
>> Frank Turek: Grand Rapids, people.
>> Tim Wildmon: Yeah, we have a radio station in. Is it Muskegon?
>> Frank Turek: Oh, Muskegon.
>> Tim Wildmon: Yeah.
>> Fred Jackson: That's not far.
>> Tim Wildmon: Muskegon.
>> Tim Wildmon: Yeah.
>> Frank Turek: Well, this the 17th, so that's this Saturday. I'll be up there for a men's conference in the afternoon, it's Grace, Community Church in Hudsonville. And then I'm doing the Sunday morning services and then the Sunday evening service as well, where we'll have Q and A. We'll do it. I don't have enough faith to be an atheist. So.
>> Tim Wildmon: At the same church?
>> Frank Turek: Yep, same church.
>> Tim Wildmon: Okay, what's it. What's the name of the church?
>> Frank Turek: Grace Community Church. It's in Hudsonville, I believe.
>> Tim Wildmon: You have to. Do you have To. Do you have to have tickets or is it.
>> Frank Turek: No, no, no, no, it's free.
>> Tim Wildmon: Okay.
>> Frank Turek: Anyone can come.
>> Tim Wildmon: Okay. All right, well, listen, thanks for being on with us. Wish you the best. Safe travels. And we will, hope that you make the pro, golfing tour soon.
>> Frank Turek: Negative. That's never going to happen.
>> Tim Wildmon: it would take a miracle of God, but.
>> Frank Turek: Yeah, but I am writing more country songs. Like, how can I miss you if you won't go away?
>> Tim Wildmon: Okay. See you, Frank.
>> Frank Turek: Better.
>> Tim Wildmon: Yeah. It's probably time for you to go. So long. Toodaloo.
>> Frank Turek: God bless you guys. See you.
>> Tim Wildmon: All right.
>> Tim Wildmon: See you.
>> Tim Wildmon: you're listening to today's issues. That's Dr. Frank Turek. Just think about all that, Fred.
>> Fred Jackson: his country song.
>> Tim Wildmon: Yeah. He said he's got come.
>> Tim Wildmon: Hm on that. That. That's what's. That's what's resonating in everybody's mind.
>> Fred Jackson: That, you know, I can't miss.
>> Tim Wildmon: You if you don't go away.
>> Fred Jackson: Yeah. You know, when I. I first started in the radio business, I was late teens.
>> Tim Wildmon: Yeah.
>> Fred Jackson: And, one of my jobs was a dj and I had to endure. I was a DJ for a six hour country and western block.
>> Tim Wildmon: Okay.
>> Fred Jackson: At a radio station.
>> Tim Wildmon: This is back in the 70s.
>> Fred Jackson: This would be back in the 70s.
>> Tim Wildmon: Okay.
>> Fred Jackson: And I'm going to reveal a trade secret. I would roll the record and then turn the monitor down and I could watch, records. Keep it now. So that dates me. That really dates me. So when the needle got to close in there to the center, I would bring the monitor back up.
>> Tim Wildmon: Okay.
>> Fred Jackson: For six hours.
>> Tim Wildmon: You mean the needle on the record?
>> Fred Jackson: The needle on the record, yes.
>> Tim Wildmon: With these 40 fives or albums or 40, 5m. 45.
>> Fred Jackson: Yeah. See, now we have to educate Chris.
>> Tim Wildmon: You know what a 45 is?
>> Christopher Woodward: I've heard of them. Yes.
>> Tim Wildmon: A little small. Little small. Vinyl.
You played six hours of country and western music back in the day
>> Christopher Woodward: Yeah.
>> Tim Wildmon: Right.
>> Christopher Woodward: It's basically like a,
>> Tim Wildmon: For.
>> Christopher Woodward: It's like I had, you know, we had CDs obviously, and you could actually buy a single CD. In other words, it was a CD with one song on it, maybe two. And that was our version of a 45.
>> Tim Wildmon: Yeah.
>> Christopher Woodward: Or what was the other one? A 70.
>> Tim Wildmon: A 70. 78 was a, album.
>> Fred Jackson: Yes, yes.
>> Tim Wildmon: Right. Is that, you know, remember those 33 was the album.
>> Tim Wildmon: Right.
>> Tim Wildmon: Oh, okay. Was a 7810 really fast when you.
>> Fred Jackson: Wanted to get through it quickly?
>> Tim Wildmon: Yeah, really fast.
>> Tim Wildmon: That spe playing. Yeah, but 40. But anyway, so. So you played six hours of country and western music back in the day. 70s we're talking Tammy Wynette and Conway Twitty and.
>> Fred Jackson: Oh, yeah, they were there. And then on top of it, M. Because it was In Canada, we. 30% of it had to be Canadian produced music. Okay, so, out of Anne Murray. A lot of Anne Murray. and Stomping Tom Connors. Have you guys ever heard of Stomping Tom?
>> Christopher Woodward: He's my favorite wrestler.
>> Fred Jackson: Stomping Tom Connors. now if. If you've ever watched hockey games, they will play one big song that he had. The good old hockey game.
>> Christopher Woodward: Oh, yeah.
>> Fred Jackson: All right. That was Stomping Tom Connors from Prince Edward Island.
>> Christopher Woodward: He's also known for gems like Bud the Spud, Big Joe Muffer, all.
>> Tim Wildmon: I wrote that one right there.
>> Christopher Woodward: Here's one that's big with, condiments. The ketchup song.
>> Fred Jackson: Yeah.
>> Tim Wildmon: Bud. Did you say Bud the Spud?
>> Christopher Woodward: I did. And I'm reading this from the Internet because clearly, you know, if I don't know the Carpenters, I don't know. I'm not familiar with.
>> Tim Wildmon: I've never. I've not heard of the singer that Fred's talking about. The what now? What now? The what? What was his name?
>> Fred Jackson: Stomping Tom Connors from Prince Edward Island. The island of, sounds like.
>> Tim Wildmon: Like a pro wrestler.
>> Fred Jackson: Anna Green Gables. No, he had stomping because one of. Part of his stick, right. Was he had a piece of wood out there and he'd stomp his foot on this piece of wood.
>> Christopher Woodward: Okay.
>> Tim Wildmon: Okay. Well, we all have a way of dealing with stress. That was his way of dealing with stress, I guess.
>> Fred Jackson: I guess so.
>> Christopher Woodward: Oh, he's saying, I've been everywhere I've heard that song.
>> Tim Wildmon: Probably covered that. Yeah. Johnny Cash.
>> Fred Jackson: Yes.
>> Tim Wildmon: Or he's been, If that's the same song we're talking about.
Maine is letting biological males compete against females in high school sports
All right. You're listening to today's issues on the American Family Radio Network. What's the next story, Chris?
>> Christopher Woodward: Well, we talked a minute ago about, golf. So I'm going to keep it in sports for a moment because onlookers recently watched in disbelief at a main high school spring track meet as a biological male competing in the girls division coasted to victory in the 800 meter and 1600 meter races. There is a junior who goes by the name Soren Stark Chessa. He is a male, and he came in first place while running for North Yarmouth Academy at an event in Hiram, Maine, on May 2. Behind him was a trail of young women, all of which finished in distant second, third and fourth. So on places. So basically you have another incident in Maine where a man is wrong with Maine. They're thumbing their nose at what the people of Maine.
>> Fred Jackson: I think it's a lot of Massachusetts people that moved up there. Boston got too crowded for them and they moved northeast.
>> Tim Wildmon: They're letting, they're letting, they're letting males compete against females in high school.
>> Fred Jackson: Yes. Yes.
>> Tim Wildmon: This guy. Again, they call them. This is a guy who says he's a woman.
>> Fred Jackson: Correct.
>> Tim Wildmon: Okay. Which is not true because he's, he's a, his biology is male. Okay. So let's be clear. He'll, he'll say I'm a girl. but he is, he is a male. And if you look at him, he has muscular and makeup of a male. Clearly you look at his legs, which are exposed because he's attracts. He's a track runner. He's across. Is it cross country?
>> Christopher Woodward: Yes.
>> Tim Wildmon: Okay. And you go in like these are the legs of a man who is strong. Right.
>> Christopher Woodward: I have posted pictures of this individual I'm talking about.
>> Tim Wildmon: So I don't know what's wrong with the people of Maine, to let this go on here, but I do know that you remember it was about six or eight weeks ago, the governor of Maine was one of the, attendees at the White House when the governors of various states were in D.C. and they were invited to the White House for dinner and to hear from President Trump. And President Trump basically confronted the governor.
>> Christopher Woodward: Yes. We have this audio, if you will.
>> Tim Wildmon: We do, yes. Okay, well, let's play this. Go ahead.
>> Christopher Woodward: Clip 10.
>> Fred Jackson: The NCAA has complied immediately, by the way. That's good. But I understand Maine is the Maine here, the governor of Maine. Are you, not going to comply with it? Well, I'm, we are the federal law. Well, you better do it. You better do it because you're not going to get any federal funding at.
>> Tim Wildmon: All if you don't.
>> Fred Jackson: And by the way, your population, even though it's somewhat liberal, although I did very well there, your population doesn't want men playing in women's sports. So you better come, you better comply because otherwise you're not getting any, any federal funding. Every state. Good. I'll see you in court. I look forward to that. That should be a real easy one. And enjoy your life after Governor, because I don't think you'll be in elected politics ever. The diplomat.
>> Tim Wildmon: Yes, that's right. Enjoy your life after politics.
>> Christopher Woodward: He did do well in Maine. I looked it up. He got 45% of the vote.
>> Tim Wildmon: There for a liberal state, that's very good for a Republican. Well, listen, what he was telling her was that, he, his administration was reversing what Biden was doing. Remember Biden was pushing transgenderism.
>> Fred Jackson: Yep.
>> Tim Wildmon: And Biden. Biden said, states are not going to get any money unless they let boys compete against girls and go into the girls showers and dressings and changing rooms and the whole, the whole thing.
>> Fred Jackson: Yep.
>> Tim Wildmon: And, because I remember Governor Ron DeSantis and others of, Florida said, we're not going to comply with that. So what President Trump did was he reversed that and he said, if you make, if you allow boys to compete against girls in sports, and go into their changing rooms and their showers and everything that goes with it, then you will not receive, federal money. I don't know. And what all capacities he was talking about, but at least for schools, I guess he was talking about. Right, Fred?
>> Fred Jackson: Ah, that's the direction. It is 180 degrees, to Joe Biden.
>> Tim Wildmon: Oh, yeah.
>> Fred Jackson: And, it turned out, I believe, to be a extreme. The Democrats stand on. That turned out to be a huge liability in the election last fall because I believe Independents, moderate Democrats who have daughters, there's no way they're going to endorse my daughter when she plays soccer or, she plays tennis. I'm not going to go along with the idea that some guy who just says he's a girl is going to be allowed to compete against my daughter or go into her change room.
>> Tim Wildmon: Right, right. Remember, we're hearing these horror stories from, from, from states where this is allowed, where, people forget about this.
The Democratic Party has turned its back on women over this issue
You just think, well, that's outrageous that a boy should be able to compete against a girl in sports. How, unfair is that? But you can. You, you forget about the related issue and that is the one of privacy.
>> Fred Jackson: Yes.
>> Tim Wildmon: Where girls are made to go into showers and changing areas with these guys.
>> Fred Jackson: Yeah.
>> Tim Wildmon: And, the guys are. They say they're women, but they go to the changing area. They're not women, they're males.
>> Fred Jackson: Yes.
>> Tim Wildmon: and yet the young ladies have to, you know, cater to that.
>> Christopher Woodward: Yes.
>> Tim Wildmon: So not in these liberal, Very liberal states.
>> Fred Jackson: And we had the cases in Loudoun county in Virginia where the guy who said he was a girl was allowed to go into the girls changing room. And then there were assaults in there.
>> Tim Wildmon: Yeah.
>> Fred Jackson: And one school moved that guy to just to another district.
>> Tim Wildmon: Yeah.
>> Christopher Woodward: If ever there was a time in America where somebody really learned that you can't just go with a political party and what they tell you, it's this particular issue because Democrats are the reason we have title nine. And in the year of our Lord 2025, the Democratic Party has turned its back on women over this issue.
>> Tim Wildmon: Yeah, they don't protect women. And, you know, another thing is, in no other category do we deny science and reality. I can't say I am a, I'm a Chinese person. You would say you can call yourself a Chinese person, but you're, an Anglo Saxon or whatever. I am, yeah. White American. you're anyway of European descent. so people would say he. He's messed up in the head. He thinks he's Chinese. Okay.
>> Fred Jackson: Yeah.
>> Tim Wildmon: So in no other category do we say we can just claim to be something and we're supposed to assent to it. except for this issue. This issue. We're supposed to let boys who say they're girls be called girls. We'll be back momentarily with more of today's issues. The views and opinions expressed in this broadcast may not necessarily reflect those of the American Family association or American Family Radio.
