American Family News is a Christian news service that edits Associated Press stories
>> Ed Vitagliano: Today's Issues continues on AFR with your host, Ed Vitagliano. And welcome back, folks. Ed Vitagliano sitting in for Tim Wildmon this week, joined in studio by Fred Jackson and Tony Vitagliano. And now Steve Paisley Jordal, or should we say Steve Small? Checkerboard Jordal.
>> Steve Jordahl: As long as you keep paying me, you can say whatever you want. I can call you whatever you want. Yeah. Hey, everybody.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Hey, Steve. Give us a quick pitch, quick commercial for American Family News.
>> Steve Jordahl: American Family News is, news service. We have a great team of reporters. You will hear us at the top of every hour on American Family Radio. You can also go to afn.net where you can, read the stories that our teams, our reporters put together, edited by our own, Fred Jackson. And, we're kind of following the stories that we think are important for Christian audiences to know.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Amen. Good. So folks, you can go to afn.net you can sign up and, get a list of the top stories in your email, at your, in your email box once a day. Right. We just, we don't, we don't pound away at your, inbox. and then you can click through and those stories and much more, including a lot of videos from Associated Press, the latest AP headlines. you will find all of that information. And we edit. At American Family News, we edit, the Associated Press stories to remove some of the, some of the bias.
>> Steve Jordahl: We remove all of the bias.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Well, put it this way. The stories contain some bias. We remove that. Right. But there is, there's still a lot of great content, content there for our readers. And, we don't edit the, the videos. Although being a baby boomer, I can't tell if it's a note. Yeah, every once in a while I can tell if someone's got six fingers. You know, I can, I can tell it's AI, but it used to, used to be the curve. Yeah.
Congressman Clay Higgins says FBI had 200 agents inside Capitol on January 6th
All right, what's first story, Steve?
>> Steve Jordahl: All right, we are just now coming to grips with how corrupt the last administration was, than the Democrat administration before that. So Barack Obama and, Krish Wray at the FBI and the damage that they tried to perpetrate on the American people, which the election of, of Donald Trump, in, this last election thwarted a little bit of this. But I wanted to bring you. This is Congressman Ray Higgins, L.A. he was on the Krish Salcedo Podcast. And, I want you to think back of what we've been through. January 6th is the touch point that the Democrats always want to go back to point at MAGA and, how, corrupt they say MAGA is. Remember, they had this whole show, committee that they used Hollywood producers to make sure that they got the right evidence and videos and everything. What was January 6th? We're just now starting to uncover things. Cash Patel, the FBI director, has unleashed some documents, has declassified some material and released it. And I want you to hear what Clay Higgins is finding out is telling America about with regard to January 6th. Cut 11.
>> Fred Jackson: My perspective, sir. The FBI was not only involved in the actions on January 6th from within. They had, I suspect, over 200 agents embedded within the crowd, including Asians, or as they would call human assets, inside the Capitol dressed as Trump supporters before the doors were opened. beyond that, the FBI had embedded themselves and infiltrated, online chat groups and websites and social media accounts across the country with any group that was discussing, objections to Covid oppression. And FBI effectively infiltrated those groups. And when you track the text threads and the communications within those groups and find the origins of suggestions of potential violence or an active occupation of the Capitol on January 6th, you'll find that those. Those messages were led by members of the groups that ended up to be the FBI agents that had infiltrated the group. So the FBI's involvement was deep, not just on J6, but on the days and weeks and months prior.
>> Ed Vitagliano: All right, now, wait a second. Okay, first of all, I want to make clear that. Who was that, by the way?
>> Steve Jordahl: That was, Clay Higgins. Congressman Clay Higgins.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Okay? He. I, do want to make clear to our listeners, he was saying there were agents embedded, not Asians.
>> Steve Jordahl: Agents. A G E N T S. He
>> Ed Vitagliano: sounded like he was saying Asians.
>> Steve Jordahl: Some of them might have Asian. I don't know.
>> Tony Vitagliano: He's from Louisiana.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Louisiana.
>> Steve Jordahl: Secret Asian man.
>> Ed Vitagliano: All right, So I do want to make that clear. It was agents.
>> Steve Jordahl: Yes.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Okay, now, so Fred, this.
>> Steve Jordahl: I.
>> Ed Vitagliano: My son is here on the show with me. Okay? Back in the COVID days, we would have conversations. I have never been a conspiracy person. Okay? Tony has been closer to the conspiracy camp. And we would have discussions, and I would.
>> Steve Jordahl: Collection of tinfoil hats.
>> Ed Vitagliano: I would say, come on, come on. That, Do you really believe. Okay, Now, I'm not saying it's a 180 for me, but. And I won't even say I've been dragged kicking and stream, screaming. it has become clear to me that most of the stuff we used to think that I used to think Was conspiracy theories is the truth.
>> Steve Jordahl: I remember after playing conspiracies, just.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Yes. I remember after January 6, people saying, how many are federal agents? And my thought was, well, no, wait a second. If you don't have proof, you know, but now that the Trump administration has one, and this seems to clearly prove why the Democrats have been so insanely hostile to Trump is for one reason. M. There are many reasons, but for. For one reason in particular. It's because he promised to rip the COVID off it.
>> Fred Jackson: Yeah.
>> Ed Vitagliano: And this was going to reveal the complicity of the Democratic Party, the news, the intelligence branches, all of that, in an effort to capture an election, to defeat a political candidate through by hook or by crook. And this kind of stuff right here, the more we hear about this, that the people suggesting violence at the Capitol might have been the FBI agents and Asians who were embedded. This is. This kind of stuff just make. Makes my, my hair on fire.
>> Fred Jackson: Yeah. You and I are in the same age bracket.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Yeah.
>> Fred Jackson: And we grew up with a belief, and I think supported by reality, that our elected officials were overall honest.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Yeah.
>> Fred Jackson: And that they were there for our benefit. And that, whether, you know, voted for one party or the other. I grew up in Canada, and there are three to four parties there.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Yeah.
>> Fred Jackson: But we believed that they had different points of view, but they were not going to impose that on the electorate in a corrupt fashion. We grew up that way.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Right.
>> Fred Jackson: You know, we grew up believing what they said was true. And when they were out campaigning, that they were going to do what they said they were going to do, but they were going to do it.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Honestly, certain amount of trust we had in that.
>> Fred Jackson: and I think what we saw. And I think it began with Barack Obama for me.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Yeah.
>> Fred Jackson: You know, when we saw that transition.
>> Ed Vitagliano: I will never, by the way, when they use the FBI and the IRS against conservative groups.
>> Fred Jackson: Yes.
>> Ed Vitagliano: You can't. No, you can't get a. A nonprofit, license because you get the word patriot in your name. That kind of thing.
>> Fred Jackson: Yes. That kind of thing began to happen.
Tony Epstein says trust in the political system has eroded under Obama administration
But remember Barack Obama and Jon McCain.
>> Steve Jordahl: Yeah.
>> Fred Jackson: Was it Barack Obama and Jon McCain? Rick Warren had them on, and Rick Warren asked them questions about gay marriage.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Yeah.
>> Fred Jackson: Abortion. Barack Obama said, oh, no, you know, I'm with you on that. You know, I oppose that, et cetera. Changed his mind soon as he got elected. So that told me that we now have a generation of politicians who really don't have a problem with lying.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Right.
>> Fred Jackson: Anything to get elected. And then we began to add to that as time went on, under Barack Obama, under Joe Biden, a weaponization. When Joe Biden's Attorney general, talked about people going to, parents going to school board meetings, we have to watch that they're potential terrorists.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Right.
>> Fred Jackson: when the edict went out during the Joe Biden years that there was an element in our military, very dangerous. We're going to watch what our military people are saying because, you know, there's potential terrorism going on among some of our military members. That was all part of a campaign to condition the American electorate that we have a problem within.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Yeah.
>> Fred Jackson: And we're going to be the party that roots out that problem. And that's. And we have a license to do that because we're doing the right thing. But then, you know, the Christopher Wray came along and we started to learn about, you know, what they did to President Trump, what proved it. To go to your point you made a minute ago, when Joe Biden was elected, we had Donald Trump out of office for four years. What our court system did to him, whether it was a prosecutor in Georgia, you know, a prosecutor in NewSong York City. It was all, I mean, like, Donald Trump was a definite threat to the country and he had broken every legal rule there possibly could.
>> Steve Jordahl: That was their contention.
>> Fred Jackson: Fortunately, we had people on Fox legal experts saying, wait a minute, the charges being brought against Donald Trump would never be brought against anybody else.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Right, right.
>> Fred Jackson: so I think over time, our trust that we grew up with has been destroyed by politicians. And I could go on and on about politicians who all of a sudden, you know, make $30 million. And I'm talking about a young lady from Minnesota. And all of a sudden. But all of a sudden, oh, that was a mistake. That $30 million. That, financial disclosure.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Right.
>> Fred Jackson: You know who I'm talking about.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Well, listen, we could go on all kinds of examples. the Biden administration using the Southern Poverty Law Center.
>> Fred Jackson: Yes.
>> Ed Vitagliano: In its instructions.
>> Fred Jackson: Yes.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Your own country, your country of birth.
>> Fred Jackson: Yes.
>> Ed Vitagliano: This was one of the most eye opening things. What they did, what Canada did to those truckers.
>> Fred Jackson: Yes.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Seizing their bank accounts.
>> Fred Jackson: Yes.
>> Ed Vitagliano: one of the things that, that. And I actually absolutely agree with what Fred says. My, my, my trust in the political system has eroded over the last six years, especially during starting with COVID But going back to the Obama years, because nobody paid a price. Lois Lerner, none of those people paid a price for any of those things they did. Okay. My, my. Now my concern is, I'll be 68 this summer. Now, my concern is from you for my kids and my grandkids, what they're going to live in. Okay. Because the thing in Canada, the thing in this country with the intelligence agencies, the, the, you know, the Russia gate and the fake dossier and, and. And going before, you know, judges and, and lying about we need a warrant, the FISA courts and all that kind of thing. And now my concern is beginning to shift towards a government that might use its considerable power. To suppress our republic and our liberties. And that's become. And so when you've got the. To me, this is entrapment. I don't have a problem with the FBI infiltrating the mafia or cartels and trying to get information about actual wrongdoing. I have a really big problem with the FBI infiltrating chat rooms and then suggesting crimes and trying to lead them into crimes that they weren't thinking of committing to begin with. Okay. This is an abuse of power. And one of my frustrations, I think I share it with a lot of people younger than me, is nobody seems to go to jail. Nobody seems to go to prison for any of this stuff. Right. I'm not even talking about the Epstein files. I'm just talking about all the ways in which the considerable power of the federal government has been abused and nobody pays. Well, you have converted me, sir.
>> Tony Vitagliano: You all sound very,
>> Fred Jackson: Tony like
>> Tony Vitagliano: that. No, look, I'm gonna. We'll move on. I'll just say this real quick. Yeah. The. The reputation that our federal government and the agencies they're in have earned. they have now. Excuse me. Is well earned. there's too many examples to list. I mean, I could. I could go on and on. One of the. One of the biggest ones being the January 6th agents being embedded in there. you know, there's Gretchen Whitmer. Does anyone remember that?
Nobody pays a price for committing crimes, Tim says
>> Ed Vitagliano: Oh, yeah.
>> Tony Vitagliano: A dozen people involved in this plot to capture Gretchen Whitmer, and only two of them are not agents.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Right.
>> Tony Vitagliano: you know, there is the Mar. A Lago raids. there's just the examples go on and on. And to me, the most egregious part and the reason why I would continue. Continue. sounds pessimistic. While we'll continue to go on is what you pointed out is that nobody, Nobody pays a price for committing, crimes. And a lot of what these organizations are doing and people in. Are committing crimes. So, I go back to remember, the Strock and Page controversy. the two FBI agents who.
>> Steve Jordahl: Lisa Page.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Yeah.
>> Tony Vitagliano: Thank you. So, you know, they Got in big trouble, because they were, you know, having an illicit affair. And also, they were exchanging texts. You know, he can't get away with this. What are we going to do?
>> Ed Vitagliano: Insurance policy, blah, blah, blah.
>> Tony Vitagliano: well, that was probably, I think, recently settled. Where they actually ended up paying. Was it Strock? he sued and he ended up getting a settlement because they exposed his text messages. So not only did none of those agents or anybody else involved pay a penalty, go to jail, or, you know, suffer in any measurable way, they actually got a settlement with the same federal government, that they worked for. So to me, that. That is probably the biggest, cause of why this and why this is not going to change is that nobody, there's no consequences for it. If I am texting somebody else terrible messages about, my boss, Mr. Tim.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Yeah.
>> Tony Vitagliano: And those text messages get leaked, guess what happens to me? I probably get. I get fired. Right. And deservedly so. if you work for the federal government, you get a settlement and you get shifted over to somewhere else. It's just the federal government operates outside of the realm of reality that we all, Everybody else in America, who the federal government's supposed to serve.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Right.
>> Tony Vitagliano: Operates, just two. Two different sets of rules.
>> Ed Vitagliano: So anyway. That's tremendous audio you just brought in, Steve.
>> Tony Vitagliano: It's a big deal.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Yep.
A recent study finds AI is showing a trend to go rogue
All right, what else you got?
>> Steve Jordahl: All right. There is a research group. It's called the Model Evaluation and Threat Research. it's artificial intelligence is what it is researching. And what it found in a recent study, that conducted between February and March of this year is that AI is showing a disturbing, trend to go rogue. what they say, go rogue. And they have some examples. one is called reward hacking, where an AI agent identifies loopholes that helps it complete an assignment. Where it actually completes the assignment, but it does some shortcuts that allows it to score better points at getting.
>> Ed Vitagliano: It gets the reward. It gets the reward by cutting corners.
>> Steve Jordahl: By cutting corners, basically. and Tony, I'd like to get your thought about this. We have assigned, ah, human characteristics to AI and we make some assumptions when we say we want it to, do. For, example, one, task could be, in.
>> Fred Jackson: In.
>> Steve Jordahl: In games that it was. It was, achieving high scores without genuinely solving the problem. One was a sailboat racing video game designed to reward passing checkpoints. but they found out that AI gamed the system by being able to go in circles around one checkpoint. And it racked up the points, but it didn't finish the race. And I think what happened is we tend to give AI human characteristics. We think we understand what we mean by finishing the race. It doesn't. It's just doing tasks.
>> Ed Vitagliano: It sounds like a four year old.
>> Steve Jordahl: It is like a four year old. So, chatbots, they have were rewarded for writing lengthy, well informed formatted responses. But ah, the models, large language models, found a way to cheat basically and boost its scores without improving the quality of the answers. So going rogue, basically we are seeing AI that doesn't behave. And right now the examples that they're coming up with are games and such. Forgive my voice, I'm getting a little dry. But this has potential. And Tony, I think, I think you might be able to talk about this.
>> Ed Vitagliano: well, first let me just say the good news here folks. For those of you listening, at least they're not putting AI into robots.
>> Steve Jordahl: No.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Okay. That would, that would be terrible.
>> Steve Jordahl: Or military.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Yeah, or military. What could go wrong if they had done that? All right, what's your take on that?
>> Tony Vitagliano: It doesn't surprise me. Look, I. Is despite the intelligence that you feel it has when you're, when you're interacting with in a chat GPT or any other chat bots, there's a human element and a human programming behind that intelligence. And as with any creation, so I'll use parent and children for instance. So my kids are going to be imbued with some of my characteristics, good, good and bad. Right. Because I am a fallen person
>> Ed Vitagliano: there.
>> Tony Vitagliano: who, who got to participate, in bringing about these lives into, into existence. they're going to be imbued with some of my characteristics, like I said, good or bad. So it's not surprising to me that AI created by humans, is going to manifests some of the same characteristics, which is the proclivity to shortcuts, laziness. What's the easiest way to go around and get the reward?
>> Steve Jordahl: I, mean, for example, we know if you ask your kids to clean up their room. Oh yeah, they know that, the room cleanup is defined as I don't want to see anything on your bed. I don't want to see.
>> Tony Vitagliano: Right.
>> Steve Jordahl: Well, what your kids will figure out, what AI would figure out if it was your child, is that I can throw everything under the bed or in the closet or in the closet. And it will qualify because there's nothing on the floor, there's nothing on the bed. And you know, you meant it has to go in the drawers it belongs. Your clothes need to be folded up and put in the dressers. That, AI could cheat like a four year old.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Well, how many kids figured out pretty quickly when the parents said, bring me your toothbrush? Did you brush your teeth? Yes. Remear toothbrush. I'm gonna see if it's wet. How many kids quickly figured out, all I got to do is make sure the toothbrush is wet.
>> Tony Vitagliano: Yeah. Sound like you know that from experience.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Yeah. Listen, I tried everything. Just like, just like Steve's saying. I learned about the closet. Throw it all in the closet.
>> Tony Vitagliano: What, what is concerning, though, to me is, is some, some of the. I think it's recklessness that we are integrating AI into more critical systems. So if it's prone to taking shortcuts, if it's prone to, reward seeking or cutting corners, we should be, we should slow down, in my opinion, in integrating AI into more critical systems, because let's just. This is anecdotal, but let's say we integrate AI into the control of a local municipality's power grid. Okay. All right. If you leave this AI to regulate power, you might not like the, the outcome, of when it turns your power off. When it turns your power off. Because the most optimum, you know, way to reach this certain level of efficiency is to just to lower the power in this neighborhood, to raise it in. And I'm just. Again, that's anecdotal. I'm not saying they're doing that, nor, nor, you know, do they plan to in the foreseeable future. That's just an example, though, of, of this type of integration that could go a little sideways.
>> Steve Jordahl: Well, the good news, there's no other countries or governments that want to win the race.
>> Ed Vitagliano: That is, I was going to ask Tony that.
How do you maintain a cautious approach when other countries are competing
Well, how do you, how do you go. How do you maintain a cautious approach when not only other countries, but businesses internally are competing to be the first one to the cross the finish line?
>> Tony Vitagliano: Well, you just, you, you go at warp speed, know that everything that. And you do at warp speed, greatly. So.
>> Ed Vitagliano: So you went back to Covid.
>> Tony Vitagliano: Did you end bigly?
>> Ed Vitagliano: Yeah. You went back to Covid.
Hope you enjoyed some of the issues we discussed on American Family Radio
All right, folks, well, that's all the time we have. Hope you enjoyed some of the issues we discussed. That AI issue is a good one. I'd like us to revisit that, on occasion because that's, that's becoming more and more of an issue. All right, folks, more great programming directly ahead on American Family Radio. Lord willing, we will join you right back here, here tomorrow.
