Rob West: It's often said that wisdom may create wealth, but wealth rarely creates wisdom. I'm Rob West. What's more valuable, wisdom or wealth? Before you answer, consider that wealth is fleeting, but wisdom is never lost. John Cortines joins us today to talk about why wisdom over wealth is always the right choice, and then it's on to your calls at 800-525-7000. That's 800-525-7000. This is Faith & Finance on American Family Radio. Biblical wisdom for your financial journey.
Well, I've been looking forward to having John Cortines back on the program. He's the Director of Partnership and Growth at the McClellan Foundation and the author of True Riches: What Jesus Really Said About Money and Your Heart. John, it's great to have you back.
John Cortines: Good to be with you, Rob. Thanks.
Rob West: John, many listeners may not realize that you wrote a study for us last year on the book of Ecclesiastes titled Wisdom Over Wealth, which is available at faithfi.com/shop for both individuals, small groups, also churches. We've received such encouraging feedback from people who have been struck by Ecclesiastes' lessons on wealth, wisdom, and what truly matters. So, before we talk about the study itself, I'd love to know about the process. What did that look like for you as you walked through Ecclesiastes personally?
John Cortines: You know, it's a—it's a mysterious book. It's a meaningful book. There's a lot of wisdom in there, and so we've titled this study Wisdom Over Wealth: 12 Lessons from Ecclesiastes on Money, and it has been a joy and transformative for me to get into that book. As you know, God's Word always has power.
Rob West: It sure does. And to your point, Ecclesiastes is one of those books we can easily overlook because at first glance, it can feel difficult or even discouraging. But when we slow down and let the preacher speak, we discover a deeply hopeful message: life is brief, wealth is limited. Achievement, pleasure, and possessions can't bear the weight of our souls, but God alone can. And that's really the heart behind Wisdom Over Wealth: 12 Lessons from Ecclesiastes on Money. The study explores themes like contentment and work, and generosity, even enjoyment, wisdom, and the fear of the Lord. It reminds us that money is a gift to steward, not a treasure to worship. And we can receive God's provision with gratitude; we can enjoy it in its proper place and hold it with open hands because our ultimate treasure is not under the sun. It is in the God who made us and sustains us and gives meaning to all we do. So, in the study, you actually illustrate the importance of wisdom over wealth with a really powerful story. I'd love for you to unpack that for our listeners.
John Cortines: Would love to do it. Um, yes, that story you just referenced, this was a real-life experience or conversation I had, and I was with somebody who was a part of three siblings, and each of them had a substantial inheritance that they received that was, in today's dollars, about a million bucks. And so, a lot of money at age 18.
Rob West: Okay.
John Cortines: And, uh, it's—it's amazing. The first one was kind of like a prodigal son story, so really sad. Um, they—they did not go down the right path, and it was squandered, and—and they ended up in a very poor position, uh, metaphorically and literally.
Rob West: Yeah.
John Cortines: Uh, the second sibling, there was some mismanagement, but also a little bit more maybe good decision-making as well, and they ended up, uh, in a house that at least they had, but the rest of the money kind of went away because expenses exceeded income. And so then here comes the third. And the third child in this family started having lunch with, uh, wise, godly leaders in their community and just asking, "Look, here's my story. Here's what happened to my siblings. I don't want it to happen to me." They actually hired a Christian financial advisor. And—and I was one of those lunches, and it was a—such a privilege to talk to this young person who was saying, "Look, I—I don't want what's happened to my older siblings to be my story as well. I want to honor God. I want to learn what investing looks like." Uh, and ultimately, there's a happy ending for this person because they finished a college degree, they learned about generosity, they learned about investing, and their life is one that is glorifying God today.
Rob West: And John, I couldn't agree more. I mean, what a picture of this idea that wisdom can generate wealth, but wealth rarely generates wisdom. This really underscores that, doesn't it?
John Cortines: Yeah, if you look at this story, it's three people from the same family, and they all got the same wealth input right as they entered adulthood, and there are three radically different outcomes. And I would argue that the difference was wisdom.
Rob West: That's exactly right. And we're going to explore this right around the corner. In fact, we'll dive into the book of Ecclesiastes where we see this idea that wisdom and wealth are both good things, but only one of them can preserve your life. We're talking today with John Cortines, our friend, frequent contributor, and the Director of Partnership and Growth at the McClellan Foundation. Wisdom Over Wealth on Faith & Finance today. I'm Rob West, and back with more right around the corner. Stay with us.
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Rob West: Thanks for joining us today on Faith & Finance on American Family Radio. What's more valuable, wisdom or wealth? We're talking about that today with our friend John Cortines. He's the Director of Partnership and Growth at the McClellan Foundation and a frequent contributor here. And the study John wrote for us last year, Wisdom Over Wealth: 12 Lessons from Ecclesiastes on Money, is the subject of our conversation today. By the way, you can pick up your copy today at faithfi.com/shop. Now, John, before the break, you told us this story that's actually a true story—you were involved in this—of three siblings that each inherited roughly a million dollars in today's dollars. They had three different outcomes: one of them was tragic, another didn't turn out the way we would have wanted, and yet the third was very God-honoring. And you really suggested that the difference was wisdom. So, take us into the book of Ecclesiastes to explore what you witnessed.
John Cortines: Thanks, Rob. Yeah, so if we look at Ecclesiastes 7:11-12, this is what it says: "Wisdom, like an inheritance, is a good thing and benefits those who see the sun. Wisdom is a shelter as money is a shelter, but the advantage of knowledge is this: Wisdom preserves those who have it."
Rob West: Yeah, a powerful truth. I know you've seen that play out time and time again. Now, we're not saying that wealth is bad, right?
John Cortines: Of course not. Yeah, Scripture is clear that, uh, God has—has given us these things, um, for our enjoyment, as Paul says. Wisdom and wealth are both good, as we just read in Ecclesiastes, but only one of them preserves our life. And so, if we want to have life, wisdom has to be ahead of wealth. If you think about this, when you and I are born, when anybody is born, we're born without any wisdom, but we've got a crib to sleep in, and there's people taking care of us. So, we've already got some wealth, but we've got no wisdom yet. And we've got to flip that as soon as we can.
Rob West: Yeah, that's exactly right. And I love how our team worked with you to create visual reminders of the relationship between wisdom and wealth. The message is clear: as wealth grows, wisdom must grow even faster. Otherwise, money can quickly become dangerous for the soul. Isn't that right?
John Cortines: That's right. You know, if you think about over our lifetimes, um, the traditional path, wealth grows exponentially. There's compound interest, and so we can end up with a good deal of wealth. And yet, if we're not intentional to grow in our wisdom, the wealth is going to run ahead, and that creates risk. But the better way would be to prioritize wisdom, because as we just read in Ecclesiastes 7, that will give us preservation. If wisdom's ahead of wealth, our life can be preserved.
Rob West: Yeah. And John, this can be, uh, pretty pronounced if we receive an inheritance or have a sudden wealth experience. It may not necessarily just play out over our lifetimes, isn't that true?
John Cortines: That's right. And—and that's where we can follow the example of the—the young person whose story we just shared a bit of, where—where he said, "Oh, my goodness, I have all this money. I need some help. I need to talk to mature believers. I need a Christian financial advisor to help me navigate this and not blow things up."
Rob West: Yeah. Well, I love that you unpack this idea of obtaining wisdom, because that's the natural next question then: if it's wisdom over wealth, how do I obtain wisdom? What would you share with our audience?
John Cortines: I love that, and the first question I would ask is, what is wisdom? You know, we might think of a list of best practices or some good ideas or a checklist I can follow, but I would submit that wisdom is both a perspective and a person. In 1 Corinthians 1, Paul refers to Jesus as Christ, the power of God and the wisdom of God.
Rob West: Mm. Yeah, that's right. And so, you know, as we think about those in our life, we obviously need to prioritize wisdom, but I know you've worked with a lot of matriarchs and patriarchs thinking about transferring wisdom to the next generation. You're thinking about that in your own family. What counsel would you give them today around this idea?
John Cortines: You know, absolutely. I—I think there's so much biblical financial wisdom in Scripture, but again, I would say it's not a checklist. It's not a list of things that I need to do. The question that's first and foremost is: do I know Christ? And anybody listening, I'd say, have you encountered wisdom Himself? He's the power of God and the wisdom of God. We each got the amazing opportunity to know Jesus and His wisdom through praying, through diligently studying His Word. And in doing so, again, harkening back to that Ecclesiastes passage, He can preserve our life, and He'll redeem our journey with money through His grace.
Rob West: Yeah. And when it comes to our kids, you know, clearly those who are listening today that are wrestling through this wealth transfer conversation, thinking about passing wisdom before wealth is really paramount. And if you haven't considered it, perhaps this is that time to stop and think about that before you execute your plans. How would you speak into that dilemma that some are facing right now?
John Cortines: You know, this is such a huge question. The great wealth transfer, of course, is talked about in media, popular media, all the time. Um, but man, as believers, we have such an opportunity to open up the conversation earlier. I would just encourage anybody out there thinking about this, I mean, we're trying to talk to our grade school children about this now. And so, if we start the conversation about wealth and wisdom and faith and legacy from a young age, wherever you're at today, open up the conversational door, uh, and—and that will give more time for things to play out. I'd say the way not to do it is—is make a will, wait for you to die, and hope everybody figures it out. Let's start the process today.
Rob West: Yeah, I think the key there is intentionality. Now, John, uh, we mentioned earlier, this is just one lesson within the larger study you wrote for FaithFi last year, Wisdom Over Wealth: 12 Lessons from Ecclesiastes on Money. So, for our listeners, connect this topic to the bigger theme you draw from Ecclesiastes and what God's Word teaches about money and wisdom and eternity.
John Cortines: You know, spending so much time in Ecclesiastes to prepare this, there are two huge themes that jumped out at me studying all 12 chapters of that book. And the first one is not money, actually. The first one is death. 11 out of the 12 chapters of Ecclesiastes mention death in one way or another. Um, but I would—I would argue that the author of Ecclesiastes, and God is communicating to us through this book, not to make us sad as we think about death, but actually to recognize that life is short and He's given us the breath in our lungs today. It's an opportunity to enjoy Him, to glorify Him, and to seize the moment for His glory. Uh, and—and that actually feeds into the financial wisdom of Ecclesiastes as well. And so, realizing life is short, wanting to honor God and—and fear Him and obey His commands with the time we're given on Earth, and then trying to manage our money in accordance with that. And we spend these 12 lessons unpacking that in this study, uh, that we've put together.
Rob West: Mm, yeah. John, as we, uh, begin to tie a bow on today's message and returning to this idea of wisdom over wealth, what's the big idea that you'd want to leave with our listeners today?
John Cortines: I would just point once again to Jesus. It's all about Him, um, and, uh, He is the source of wisdom. And so, um, I'm so thankful for what you guys are doing through this through FaithFi, through, um, Kingdom Advisors and putting that message out there that when we connect our faith and finances, uh, it actually starts to shape our heart and make us more like Christ. Um, these are not two areas of our life that should be separate. Uh, we should bring them together in the short number of days that we've got for the glory of God.
Rob West: Yeah, that's exactly right. And I'm grateful for your hard work on this study, and I'm encouraged by the feedback we've already received. I look forward to seeing the continued impact that it will have. John, as we close, what's your hope and prayer for anybody that picks up that study?
John Cortines: I would say, recognize that your life is a gift. Um, you've been given a brief moment of life. You can spend it in bitterness, you can spend it complaining, or you can recognize that God has given you a gift, even in the challenges you face. So, seek after Him, and, uh, make every day count for the glory of God.
Rob West: Yeah, that's right. Well, that's certainly our objective here on this program every day: to help you see God as your ultimate treasure and money a tool to accomplish His purposes. John, thanks for stopping by.
John Cortines: Thanks so much, Rob. Great to be with you.
Rob West: That's John Cortines, Director of Partnership and Growth at the McClellan Foundation. You can pick up your copy of Wisdom Over Wealth: 12 Lessons from Ecclesiastes on Money at faithfi.com/shop. That's faithfi.com/shop. Your questions are next: 800-525-7000. Stick around.
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Rob West: Great to have you with us today on Faith & Finance here on American Family Radio. I'm Rob West. We're taking your calls and questions today: 800-525-7000. That's 800-525-7000. We've got room for you at the moment. We will be diving into those questions here very, very soon. We've got a lot of ground to cover today. Great to have John Cortines here today, coming up in our final segment, Walker Wildmon and Jerry Bowyer stop by. We'll find out what's moving the markets. Big week in the markets this week. We'll get Jerry's take on that. Some economic data out today. Also, AFA's work in the area of corporate engagement continues, and making some really great progress on a lot of fronts, and we'll get an update on that in our final segment today.
But if you have a question, something that's going on in your financial life, now's a great time to call: 800-525-7000. Again, that's 800-525-7000. We would love to be able to help you think through what you're wrestling with through the lens of biblical wisdom. Again, you can do that at 800-525-7000.
In the news today, inheriting a family home can bring both financial opportunity and difficult decisions. That's right, when siblings or other relatives inherit property together, it creates some challenges. They have to decide whether to sell it. Do they want to rent or keep the home while continuing to cover property taxes and insurance and maintenance and repairs? These decisions are becoming more common as trillions of dollars in wealth are expected to pass between generations in the coming decades. The latest number I've heard between now and 2048 is $124 trillion, just absolutely incredible, the amount of wealth changing hands here. And rising home values have made real estate an especially significant part of many inheritances.
Experts say disagreements can arise when heirs have different financial needs or emotional attachments to a property. Delaying a decision can also become costly because expenses continue even while the family considers its options. Tax considerations matter as well. Inherited property receives, of course, a new cost basis based on its fair market value at the owner's death, making a timely appraisal important. Financial and estate planning professionals recommend discussing plans for family property well in advance. Clear instructions, appropriate wills or trusts, maybe a TODD—transfer-on-death deed—allowing it to pass similar to a beneficiary designation outside of probate if your state allows it, is another tool that's often used. You also want to define a timeline for making decisions; that can help reduce conflict, control costs, and protect the property's value. So, something to consider among other things as we think about estate planning and this largest asset that most people have, many people have, and that is their home. And hopefully, that gives you a few things to think about today.
All right, the calls are coming in. Still a few lines open. If you have a question, now's a great time to call: 800-525-7000. That's 800-525-7000. Let's begin today in Tennessee. Sandra, thanks for your call. Go ahead.
Sandra: Thank you for taking my call. I'm trying to figure out about death insurance. I'm 69, and it's just myself, and so my family's kind of on my case how that I don't have any burial insurance. And so I'm finally getting around to thinking about purchasing some. And one offer I've been offered is for 25,000 for just simple burial insurance. For my age of 69, I would have to pay them $149 per month. And if I live to be 120 years old, then they would just mail me a check for that 25,000. But I'm calling to see if that's a reasonable fee for such a need.
Rob West: Yeah, yeah, it's a great question. Is this a term policy, or where the premiums could increase later, or is it final expense insurance with fixed premiums that never increase?
Sandra: It never increases, he said. It's going to be a fixed fee.
Rob West: Okay, great. Yeah, so if the premiums are fixed for life and never increase, then 149 a month for 25,000 isn't necessarily a bad deal for someone approaching 70, especially if it was issued based on your health and not guaranteed issue. I would say the premium is definitely on the higher side, though. So I wouldn't say it's, you know, just a non-starter, but it is on the higher side. You know, I would say if you need the coverage, which it sounds like you do, you have health issues that would make, you know, replacing that more expensive or impossible, and you can afford the 149 a month, you know, then I think it does fill a need. I guess my question would just be: are there other assets that could be available where you would not have to bear this expense? Because, you know, that's obviously going to add up over time. I mean, 17, roughly $1,800 a year is not insignificant, and you could stick that in savings. But do you have any other assets?
Sandra: No, I don't.
Rob West: Okay, yeah. So you're just thinking about it, and you don't have this policy now, but you really don't have this anything else. You know, I think if the goal is really just the funeral and burial costs, I think the other consideration is to look at whether you actually need 25,000. I mean, a 10 to 15,000 final expense policy really could be enough. I mean, that's where most funerals come in at, and you could even do the pre-planning, even if you don't pay for it in advance, you could go ahead and pre-plan it. And, you know, if you could cut that 25 down to 10 or even 15, you know, you could see a lower premium.
I would also make sure, if you're in good health, that you have a fully underwritten final expense policy rather than what's called guaranteed issue. Because if they take the time—and again, assuming you're in good health—to actually do the medical underwriting, it could be significantly less expensive. A guarantee issue means they don't even consider your medical condition, and then, you know, they just come up with the premium. That's always going to be higher than somebody, you know, who's able to be medically underwritten, but that assumes you don't have serious health issues. So I think my counsel to you would be, if there's not other assets and you want to cover this, let's look at dialing it back to maybe 10 to 15,000, let's do the pre-planning to make sure that's going to be sufficient, and then if you're in good health, make sure you look at some other policies that have full medical underwriting to get it down. Thanks for your call. We'll be right back.
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Rob West: Great to have you with us today on Faith & Finance here on American Family Radio. I'm Rob West. Hey, if you want to find an advisor who shares your values, consider checking out a Certified Kingdom Advisor in your area. There's likely one in your town. There's 2,000 of them around the country, and even if you don't have one in your area, many of them will work remotely. Uh, maybe you visit together in person once a year and the rest of the meetings uh are virtual. Uh, but you can take a look when you head to findacka.com. That's findacka.com. Uh, we've got uh three lines open taking your calls and questions today, 800-525-7000. You can call right now. Uh, let's head to uh North Carolina, Denny. How can I help you?
Denny: Thanks for taking my call.
Rob West: Yes, sir.
Denny: Um, I just have a a question. We—my wife and I received a small inheritance. To us, it's huge, but to most people, it's probably small. Um, we are both retired. Um, we don't have a lot of retirement, um, just because of circumstances in our life. We have under $100,000 between the two of us as far as retirement. We are not using it. It's just sitting there, growing at the time. My question is, our inheritance, um, was roughly uh $60,000, which is what we owe on our mortgage. Should we pay off our mortgage?
Rob West: Hm, yeah. Uh, so the balance is roughly 60,000, which is equal to the inheritance. What uh is that interest rate?
Denny: Uh, 4 and a quarter.
Rob West: Okay, 4.25%. And um, yeah, so as you look at this, so you have your uh just under 200,000, but you said that's not in a retirement plan. That's just like in a savings account or something?
Denny: Uh, under 100,000, and and they are in retirement accounts.
Rob West: Oh, okay. Uh, what is that invested in?
Denny: Um, the—it was just uh for both of us, just a plan that was through our jobs.
Rob West: Okay. And is that in stocks and bonds, mutual funds, or is it sitting in money market? How do you have it invested, do you know?
Denny: Oh, stocks and bonds.
Rob West: Okay, yeah. Got it. Um, so, you know, I think I I wouldn't necessarily—I mean, listen, let me back up. If you have a conviction to be debt-free, uh I would pay off the house and not look back. I mean, I think the starting point is for you and your wife to come together and say, based on our values as Christ followers and and the convictions we have, and as we've prayed about it, if you feel, you know, clear that the Lord is directing you to pay off that house, and, you know, that would give you some more peace of mind to own it free and clear. Obviously, the fact that you can pay it in full is a big deal because then you could recoup the monthly payment every month. If you, you know, just pay toward the principal, but you don't pay it off, it doesn't affect your monthly um expenses. But if you can pay it off, obviously, that mortgage goes away, and now you free up that payment to redirect to additional savings or something like that. But if any of those are true, I would say go for it, and I would never say that's a bad decision.
Um, but if we just look at this purely from a financial standpoint, you know, and and you're able to cover the mortgage with your cash flow, you know, perhaps a bigger concern isn't the mortgage, but the lack of retirement assets. Um, so if you pay off the mortgage with the inheritance, yes, you eliminate that 4 and a quarter percent debt, but you have very little in the way of liquid assets outside of that uh retirement account, and you lose flexibility if an unexpected, you know, expense or let's say health care need arises in retirement. So, you know, perhaps another approach would be to say, "Okay, we're going to use this to shore up our emergency fund of 6, maybe even up to 12 months' worth of expenses as you head into retirement, or if you're already in retirement." And then consider investing some or, you know, all of that inheritance if you already have the emergency fund to strengthen your retirement reserves. And, you know, you could do that through uh an IRA or or something else. Um, you know, we could look at what those options are uh if either of you have, you know, any work that you're still doing, and you have a retirement plan available, and if not, you know, the IRA is really going to be your best option.
But, you know, again, the non-financial side says if really either there's a conviction there to be debt-free, or if you have peace of mind by paying it off, you know, you could go that route as well. I think that 4 and a quarter percent fixed-rate mortgage is relatively manageable, and, you know, you could fairly easily, with a properly diversified portfolio, do better than that, even after you pay some taxes if you can't get it all into a retirement account, um, just with a, you know, a really well-diversified, high-quality uh portfolio of investments, and you'd keep the money, so it would no longer be illiquid, which is what would happen when you drop it into the house. Um, but let me stop there and get your thoughts on that.
Denny: Um, those are all things that I I have considered. I I even spoke with my wife and said, "You know, what if we um tried to pay off uh, you know, $7,000 a year um for, you know, how- however long until we pay it off, or maybe $10,000, something like that?" And kind of like what you said, having cash on hand in case of an emergency. Yeah. Um, so, so it all it all sounds good to me. I'm Quite honestly, I'm ignorant when it comes to investing. I am I'm not good at that, uh, and I suppose I need to speak with a financial uh planner.
Rob West: Yeah. Yeah, I I think that would be a great move. Uh, somebody who could help you do some planning just to forecast out, you know, what the future is going to look like. I mean, nobody knows the future, except the Lord, but, you know, this idea that you're perhaps your greatest risk in this season of life is what we call longevity risk, you know. As we are living longer uh on average, you know, the question is, will we run out of money? And, uh, you know, what are you all living on right now? Just Social Security alone?
Denny: Uh, yeah. My my wife, she she works uh one one day a week. So so in addition to retirement for her is about 1,000 bucks. I'm a private contractor, so I I can still do side jobs and, you know, make a certain amount of money.
Rob West: Yeah.
Denny: But without impacting Social Security.
Rob West: Great. And do you have any uh, what I would call, emergency reserves apart from this roughly $60,000 worth of inheritance?
Denny: No.
Rob West: Okay. Yeah, so I think that's the biggest concern right now, because, you know, if something came out of left field, uh, you know, you could maybe work a few more hours or do something to try to cover it. But the the lack of reserves outside of a retirement account is, I think, a bigger deal than you getting rid of this 4 and a quarter percent mortgage. So, I would probably hang on to uh, you know, this money. Get it in, you know, put it into at least a high-yield savings. For instance, our friends at um, you know, AdelFi Christian Banking, the largest Christian banking credit union in the country, is offering 4% right now on their money market. Uh, you could go to faithfi.com/banking. I mean, that's an example of something you could do where you're essentially not taking any risk, it's insured, you're getting a nice rate of return almost equal to what you're paying on the the mortgage, but you also have now liquidity, you have access to funds if you need it.
And then I think the key would be, going back to your point, you know, could you all take some of your surplus through your work, and maybe even if you had the ability to do a little bit extra, and all that goes to prepaying the mortgage, so that as you guys transition into, you know, full retirement without pay, if that comes down the road by necessity, now the mortgage is gone, we've got a plan to get there, but in the meantime, we're hanging on to the liquidity, we're still funding retirement plans either at her work or in IRAs, and I think we've positioned you well for the future. So, hope that helps, Denny. We appreciate your call. We'll be right back.
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Rob West: Great to have you with us today on Faith & Finance here on American Family Radio. Well, Walker Wildmon and Jerry Bowyer are here. It's been a big week in the markets. Let's start there, Jerry. You know, a lot of strength, although we're getting some economic data today and, you know, perhaps mixed results on this new round of earnings. What do you make of kind of where we find ourselves right now with this economy?
Jerry Bowyer: Yeah. Well, I would say that the weak economic news makes perfect sense with the strong market performance because we're kind of back to the pattern we've been talking about for several years, which is the biggest investor in U.S. markets is not U.S. investors; it's our own central bank.
So when bad news comes from the economy, like losing 23,000 jobs rather than gaining, I think, 76,000 or 78,000 is what was expected, and finding out that over the past three months we created a lot fewer jobs than we thought we did, people say, "Oh, well that's bad economic news. That must be bad for markets." Well, normally it would be if the central bank were just there and fighting inflation and keeping the value of the currency stable, and there as a lender of last resort in case there's a panic. But that's not what it does. It intervenes in markets constantly to try to stimulate growth.
So if the economy's doing poorly, then investors look at that and say, "Well, the Fed probably won't hike as much as we all thought they were going to." And that's exactly what the Fed funds futures market says. I know that sounds like a technical thing, but it's just what the market is saying the Fed is likely to do.
So they do believe that it's going to hike rates—by the way, hike rates really just means they're contracting the money supply to fight inflation—but they think that there's a trade-off between growth and inflation. So if the economy is slowing and we have a weak jobs market, well, maybe the Fed won't be able to pull money out of the system. Maybe it'll have to put money into the system. Maybe it'll do monetary stimulus, and that's what drives up markets.
So how do I know that's what's happening here? Because when we talk about what did the market do today or whatever, people usually mean, "Well, what did the Dow do?", right? But there's a whole bunch of different markets, right? And, you know, some markets like the Nasdaq—that's the tech one—is a little bit more bubble, a little bit more speculative. So easy money drives that one up more, and that one went up more. Well, what did the dollar do? Well, the dollar fell in response to the bad jobs report. What did gold do? Gold went up. Ah, and I mentioned the Fed funds futures, "Oh, we're probably not going to get the hikes we expect."
So all that is consistently saying that what's happening today isn't about the fundamentals of the economy in and of itself; it's about how our central bank is likely to reflect and respond to the fundamentals of the economy. I don't think that's the way the system is supposed to work when it's working the way it's supposed to. I think that the Fed should basically keep the dollar stable and be around in case of panics as a lender of last resort, and that's it. But it is now, and has been for some time, the micromanager of our economy and of the markets.
And so, job market being weak, manufacturing's not doing so well, there's a lot of trade uncertainty, the war certainly doesn't help with any of this. One bright spot is construction jobs are up, and that probably has to do with data centers. So I would say, you and I have talked about this, pretty much the only thing that's really going on in the U.S. economy in terms of growth right now is AI and the capital expenditures to support it.
Rob West: Yeah. Yeah, I mean, are you surprised that we're sitting here where we are? I mean, we're at 54,000 on the Dow, we're approaching 7,800 on the S&P, and it seems like every couple of days we have this same theme: massive attack coming in Iran; wait, never mind, they want to negotiate. And that's just kind of on a loop right now, and yet the market's shrugging that off.
Jerry Bowyer: Well, yeah, because eventually it's Groundhog Day and you shrug it off, right? It's Groundhog Day, but with killing. So it's just over and over again. It's not a very inspiring thing to say, you know, to see what's going on. Like, you know, Iran says something, markets believe it; the president says something, markets believe it. At this point, markets don't seem to believe either very well. This war is definitely dragging on.
I know there are people listening to me right now who think this war is a terrible idea, and there are people listening to me right now who think this war was a great idea or at least necessary. That's not my job. As an economist, though, I'll say that this lingering war like this has consequences for the economy, and we're feeling them in the weak jobs market, in the high inflation. Our second-quarter growth rate was barely above zero, so not a recession, but what someone would call a growth recession. And markets reacting to our president and the dictatorship of Iran as though they are similarly credible. These are things that concern me.
Rob West: Yeah, no doubt about it. Well, we'll certainly keep an eye on it. Thanks for that analysis, Jerry. Let me pivot to the work that's going on in the area of corporate engagement. Walker, I love checking in each week because it just seems like there's incredible momentum right now. There's meaningful progress taking place. Give us your assessment on AFA's latest work in this area.
Walker Wildmon: Yeah, we're heading into a new corporate filing season. New shareholder opportunities are being worked on now. And there's a couple things that are on the forefront of our mind as we engage with these major multi-billion dollar companies.
The first one is protecting children and protecting young people online, especially with this evolution of AI and these AI chatbots and this just AI boom that is taking part in the economy. We want to make sure that companies are being responsible with how they're using and building these tools. There's a lot of damage that can be done if companies are not pressured within the private market to build these AI chatbots and these AI systems responsibly.
And then also, not just the harms to children, but also the biases that are currently built into some of these AI systems. For example, if you search "American Family Association" or search different topics related to conservatism or Christianity, you're going to get varying results, some of them untrue and very biased against Christianity and against groups like American Family Association. So we want to continually push back against that type of bias, because unfortunately, we could very well get to a place where the majority of the populace is using AI chats to get basic answers on their daily life. And so we need to make sure that these companies are building them responsibly and also building them with truth factored in.
And then lastly, these corporate sponsorships with groups like the Southern Poverty Law Center, which has been federally indicted by the DOJ for various financial crimes where they were paying KKK groups basically to foment hate and division and racism. Those companies, like Apple and others, don't need to be giving corporate donations to the Southern Poverty Law Center and other left-wing Marxist groups. So that's just a brief overview of some of the things we're going to be working on the next few months.
Rob West: Yeah, that's incredible. Jerry, what strikes me about what Walker just said is we're not, you know, going in asking for preferential treatment for Christians here. I mean, rooting out bias and protecting children is like core of the core, isn't it?
Jerry Bowyer: It is. Right, and it's preferential treatment for children, which is proper under U.S. law and under a pretty well universal moral code. Yeah, so when it comes to the treatment of Christians, these engagements are just asking for Christians to be treated the same way as everybody else.
So if somebody holds to Christian values on certain issues, and the Southern Poverty Law Center doesn't like that because some donor said, "Hey, you know, I don't like the American Family Association" or "I don't like Alliance Defending Freedom" or "I don't like Charlie Kirk, here's a million dollars, add them to your hate list," then that's biased treatment against us.
And, you know, other examples would be where companies where you can, as an employee, you can give a grant to Human Rights Campaign, or you can give a grant to the American Atheists Association or whatever, but you can't give a grant to AFA, or you can't give a grant to Alliance Defending Freedom, or you can't give a grant to your church even. And we've seen a lot of companies change those policies.
And so AFA is going to be engaging a lot. I'm looking here at the big board here on companies that are aligned with the Southern Poverty Law Center or have been in the past. Now, it might be that, you know, Walker goes into this or I go into these meetings and they say, "Well, wait a minute, we don't do that anymore. You know, we stopped giving to Southern Poverty Law Center last year." Okay, great! Then Walker might withdraw the proposal and say, "Well, that's good, I'm glad you did that." Or they might say, "Well, we don't give to them," and then we say, "Well, what about your Benevity giving platform?" And often we have found situations where companies are using Southern Poverty Law Center and they didn't know, and we were able to work with AFA and others to shine the light on that, and then they drop that.
So this looks like a really good season for AFA and for the rest of the ecosystem. We're off to a great start early this year, already some big wins, and the season is just starting. It was a really great season last year; looks like it's going to be an even greater season this year.
Rob West: Incredible. Folks, as you're thinking about this work, and you're hearing Jerry and Walker talk about these really critical issues where real progress is being made, and you're celebrating that as I am, think about the stocks you hold and perhaps a gift you could make to AFA directly through the AFA Foundation, so that they could take these, evaluate them, and see if possibly there's an engagement opportunity there. And you can go to afafoundation.net. Walker, I'll give you the last word here.
Walker Wildmon: Yeah, we're experiencing incredible momentum. Companies are paying attention. There's been this massive backlash over the last several years on this woke, you know, Marxist agenda and the constant DEI and victimhood and, you know, all these left-wing narratives that demonize groups and individuals and our Christian faith.
And so we're just going to keep capitalizing on this momentum. And the good thing is, is that from here, the goal is to only get more groups involved. So more charities, more Christian organizations, more universities, more private schools and endowments all need to get on board with this corporate engagement move, because the left has been doing this for a long, long time, and we have a lot of room to make up here. But the good news is, is there's tons of organizations out there that are not currently engaged in corporate engagement, and so there's a lot of opportunity for folks to jump in.
Rob West: Very good. Well, keep up the good work, gentlemen. We appreciate your time today.
Jerry Bowyer: Thank you. God bless you.
Walker Wildmon: Thank you.
Rob West: All right. That's Walker Wildmon, Jerry Bowyer. We're so thankful to have them each week on this segment.
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Rob West: It's often said that wisdom may create wealth, but wealth rarely creates wisdom. I'm Rob West. What's more valuable, wisdom or wealth? Before you answer, consider that wealth is fleeting, but wisdom is never lost. John Cortines joins us today to talk about why wisdom over wealth is always the right choice, and then it's on to your calls at 800-525-7000. That's 800-525-7000. This is Faith & Finance on American Family Radio. Biblical wisdom for your financial journey.
Well, I've been looking forward to having John Cortines back on the program. He's the Director of Partnership and Growth at the McClellan Foundation and the author of True Riches: What Jesus Really Said About Money and Your Heart. John, it's great to have you back.
John Cortines: Good to be with you, Rob. Thanks.
Rob West: John, many listeners may not realize that you wrote a study for us last year on the book of Ecclesiastes titled Wisdom Over Wealth, which is available at faithfi.com/shop for both individuals, small groups, also churches. We've received such encouraging feedback from people who have been struck by Ecclesiastes' lessons on wealth, wisdom, and what truly matters. So, before we talk about the study itself, I'd love to know about the process. What did that look like for you as you walked through Ecclesiastes personally?
John Cortines: You know, it's a—it's a mysterious book. It's a meaningful book. There's a lot of wisdom in there, and so we've titled this study Wisdom Over Wealth: 12 Lessons from Ecclesiastes on Money, and it has been a joy and transformative for me to get into that book. As you know, God's Word always has power.
Rob West: It sure does. And to your point, Ecclesiastes is one of those books we can easily overlook because at first glance, it can feel difficult or even discouraging. But when we slow down and let the preacher speak, we discover a deeply hopeful message: life is brief, wealth is limited. Achievement, pleasure, and possessions can't bear the weight of our souls, but God alone can. And that's really the heart behind Wisdom Over Wealth: 12 Lessons from Ecclesiastes on Money. The study explores themes like contentment and work, and generosity, even enjoyment, wisdom, and the fear of the Lord. It reminds us that money is a gift to steward, not a treasure to worship. And we can receive God's provision with gratitude; we can enjoy it in its proper place and hold it with open hands because our ultimate treasure is not under the sun. It is in the God who made us and sustains us and gives meaning to all we do. So, in the study, you actually illustrate the importance of wisdom over wealth with a really powerful story. I'd love for you to unpack that for our listeners.
John Cortines: Would love to do it. Um, yes, that story you just referenced, this was a real-life experience or conversation I had, and I was with somebody who was a part of three siblings, and each of them had a substantial inheritance that they received that was, in today's dollars, about a million bucks. And so, a lot of money at age 18.
Rob West: Okay.
John Cortines: And, uh, it's—it's amazing. The first one was kind of like a prodigal son story, so really sad. Um, they—they did not go down the right path, and it was squandered, and—and they ended up in a very poor position, uh, metaphorically and literally.
Rob West: Yeah.
John Cortines: Uh, the second sibling, there was some mismanagement, but also a little bit more maybe good decision-making as well, and they ended up, uh, in a house that at least they had, but the rest of the money kind of went away because expenses exceeded income. And so then here comes the third. And the third child in this family started having lunch with, uh, wise, godly leaders in their community and just asking, "Look, here's my story. Here's what happened to my siblings. I don't want it to happen to me." They actually hired a Christian financial advisor. And—and I was one of those lunches, and it was a—such a privilege to talk to this young person who was saying, "Look, I—I don't want what's happened to my older siblings to be my story as well. I want to honor God. I want to learn what investing looks like." Uh, and ultimately, there's a happy ending for this person because they finished a college degree, they learned about generosity, they learned about investing, and their life is one that is glorifying God today.
Rob West: And John, I couldn't agree more. I mean, what a picture of this idea that wisdom can generate wealth, but wealth rarely generates wisdom. This really underscores that, doesn't it?
John Cortines: Yeah, if you look at this story, it's three people from the same family, and they all got the same wealth input right as they entered adulthood, and there are three radically different outcomes. And I would argue that the difference was wisdom.
Rob West: That's exactly right. And we're going to explore this right around the corner. In fact, we'll dive into the book of Ecclesiastes where we see this idea that wisdom and wealth are both good things, but only one of them can preserve your life. We're talking today with John Cortines, our friend, frequent contributor, and the Director of Partnership and Growth at the McClellan Foundation. Wisdom Over Wealth on Faith & Finance today. I'm Rob West, and back with more right around the corner. Stay with us.
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Rob West: Thanks for joining us today on Faith & Finance on American Family Radio. What's more valuable, wisdom or wealth? We're talking about that today with our friend John Cortines. He's the Director of Partnership and Growth at the McClellan Foundation and a frequent contributor here. And the study John wrote for us last year, Wisdom Over Wealth: 12 Lessons from Ecclesiastes on Money, is the subject of our conversation today. By the way, you can pick up your copy today at faithfi.com/shop. Now, John, before the break, you told us this story that's actually a true story—you were involved in this—of three siblings that each inherited roughly a million dollars in today's dollars. They had three different outcomes: one of them was tragic, another didn't turn out the way we would have wanted, and yet the third was very God-honoring. And you really suggested that the difference was wisdom. So, take us into the book of Ecclesiastes to explore what you witnessed.
John Cortines: Thanks, Rob. Yeah, so if we look at Ecclesiastes 7:11-12, this is what it says: "Wisdom, like an inheritance, is a good thing and benefits those who see the sun. Wisdom is a shelter as money is a shelter, but the advantage of knowledge is this: Wisdom preserves those who have it."
Rob West: Yeah, a powerful truth. I know you've seen that play out time and time again. Now, we're not saying that wealth is bad, right?
John Cortines: Of course not. Yeah, Scripture is clear that, uh, God has—has given us these things, um, for our enjoyment, as Paul says. Wisdom and wealth are both good, as we just read in Ecclesiastes, but only one of them preserves our life. And so, if we want to have life, wisdom has to be ahead of wealth. If you think about this, when you and I are born, when anybody is born, we're born without any wisdom, but we've got a crib to sleep in, and there's people taking care of us. So, we've already got some wealth, but we've got no wisdom yet. And we've got to flip that as soon as we can.
Rob West: Yeah, that's exactly right. And I love how our team worked with you to create visual reminders of the relationship between wisdom and wealth. The message is clear: as wealth grows, wisdom must grow even faster. Otherwise, money can quickly become dangerous for the soul. Isn't that right?
John Cortines: That's right. You know, if you think about over our lifetimes, um, the traditional path, wealth grows exponentially. There's compound interest, and so we can end up with a good deal of wealth. And yet, if we're not intentional to grow in our wisdom, the wealth is going to run ahead, and that creates risk. But the better way would be to prioritize wisdom, because as we just read in Ecclesiastes 7, that will give us preservation. If wisdom's ahead of wealth, our life can be preserved.
Rob West: Yeah. And John, this can be, uh, pretty pronounced if we receive an inheritance or have a sudden wealth experience. It may not necessarily just play out over our lifetimes, isn't that true?
John Cortines: That's right. And—and that's where we can follow the example of the—the young person whose story we just shared a bit of, where—where he said, "Oh, my goodness, I have all this money. I need some help. I need to talk to mature believers. I need a Christian financial advisor to help me navigate this and not blow things up."
Rob West: Yeah. Well, I love that you unpack this idea of obtaining wisdom, because that's the natural next question then: if it's wisdom over wealth, how do I obtain wisdom? What would you share with our audience?
John Cortines: I love that, and the first question I would ask is, what is wisdom? You know, we might think of a list of best practices or some good ideas or a checklist I can follow, but I would submit that wisdom is both a perspective and a person. In 1 Corinthians 1, Paul refers to Jesus as Christ, the power of God and the wisdom of God.
Rob West: Mm. Yeah, that's right. And so, you know, as we think about those in our life, we obviously need to prioritize wisdom, but I know you've worked with a lot of matriarchs and patriarchs thinking about transferring wisdom to the next generation. You're thinking about that in your own family. What counsel would you give them today around this idea?
John Cortines: You know, absolutely. I—I think there's so much biblical financial wisdom in Scripture, but again, I would say it's not a checklist. It's not a list of things that I need to do. The question that's first and foremost is: do I know Christ? And anybody listening, I'd say, have you encountered wisdom Himself? He's the power of God and the wisdom of God. We each got the amazing opportunity to know Jesus and His wisdom through praying, through diligently studying His Word. And in doing so, again, harkening back to that Ecclesiastes passage, He can preserve our life, and He'll redeem our journey with money through His grace.
Rob West: Yeah. And when it comes to our kids, you know, clearly those who are listening today that are wrestling through this wealth transfer conversation, thinking about passing wisdom before wealth is really paramount. And if you haven't considered it, perhaps this is that time to stop and think about that before you execute your plans. How would you speak into that dilemma that some are facing right now?
John Cortines: You know, this is such a huge question. The great wealth transfer, of course, is talked about in media, popular media, all the time. Um, but man, as believers, we have such an opportunity to open up the conversation earlier. I would just encourage anybody out there thinking about this, I mean, we're trying to talk to our grade school children about this now. And so, if we start the conversation about wealth and wisdom and faith and legacy from a young age, wherever you're at today, open up the conversational door, uh, and—and that will give more time for things to play out. I'd say the way not to do it is—is make a will, wait for you to die, and hope everybody figures it out. Let's start the process today.
Rob West: Yeah, I think the key there is intentionality. Now, John, uh, we mentioned earlier, this is just one lesson within the larger study you wrote for FaithFi last year, Wisdom Over Wealth: 12 Lessons from Ecclesiastes on Money. So, for our listeners, connect this topic to the bigger theme you draw from Ecclesiastes and what God's Word teaches about money and wisdom and eternity.
John Cortines: You know, spending so much time in Ecclesiastes to prepare this, there are two huge themes that jumped out at me studying all 12 chapters of that book. And the first one is not money, actually. The first one is death. 11 out of the 12 chapters of Ecclesiastes mention death in one way or another. Um, but I would—I would argue that the author of Ecclesiastes, and God is communicating to us through this book, not to make us sad as we think about death, but actually to recognize that life is short and He's given us the breath in our lungs today. It's an opportunity to enjoy Him, to glorify Him, and to seize the moment for His glory. Uh, and—and that actually feeds into the financial wisdom of Ecclesiastes as well. And so, realizing life is short, wanting to honor God and—and fear Him and obey His commands with the time we're given on Earth, and then trying to manage our money in accordance with that. And we spend these 12 lessons unpacking that in this study, uh, that we've put together.
Rob West: Mm, yeah. John, as we, uh, begin to tie a bow on today's message and returning to this idea of wisdom over wealth, what's the big idea that you'd want to leave with our listeners today?
John Cortines: I would just point once again to Jesus. It's all about Him, um, and, uh, He is the source of wisdom. And so, um, I'm so thankful for what you guys are doing through this through FaithFi, through, um, Kingdom Advisors and putting that message out there that when we connect our faith and finances, uh, it actually starts to shape our heart and make us more like Christ. Um, these are not two areas of our life that should be separate. Uh, we should bring them together in the short number of days that we've got for the glory of God.
Rob West: Yeah, that's exactly right. And I'm grateful for your hard work on this study, and I'm encouraged by the feedback we've already received. I look forward to seeing the continued impact that it will have. John, as we close, what's your hope and prayer for anybody that picks up that study?
John Cortines: I would say, recognize that your life is a gift. Um, you've been given a brief moment of life. You can spend it in bitterness, you can spend it complaining, or you can recognize that God has given you a gift, even in the challenges you face. So, seek after Him, and, uh, make every day count for the glory of God.
Rob West: Yeah, that's right. Well, that's certainly our objective here on this program every day: to help you see God as your ultimate treasure and money a tool to accomplish His purposes. John, thanks for stopping by.
John Cortines: Thanks so much, Rob. Great to be with you.
Rob West: That's John Cortines, Director of Partnership and Growth at the McClellan Foundation. You can pick up your copy of Wisdom Over Wealth: 12 Lessons from Ecclesiastes on Money at faithfi.com/shop. That's faithfi.com/shop. Your questions are next: 800-525-7000. Stick around.
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Rob West: Great to have you with us today on Faith & Finance here on American Family Radio. I'm Rob West. We're taking your calls and questions today: 800-525-7000. That's 800-525-7000. We've got room for you at the moment. We will be diving into those questions here very, very soon. We've got a lot of ground to cover today. Great to have John Cortines here today, coming up in our final segment, Walker Wildmon and Jerry Bowyer stop by. We'll find out what's moving the markets. Big week in the markets this week. We'll get Jerry's take on that. Some economic data out today. Also, AFA's work in the area of corporate engagement continues, and making some really great progress on a lot of fronts, and we'll get an update on that in our final segment today.
But if you have a question, something that's going on in your financial life, now's a great time to call: 800-525-7000. Again, that's 800-525-7000. We would love to be able to help you think through what you're wrestling with through the lens of biblical wisdom. Again, you can do that at 800-525-7000.
In the news today, inheriting a family home can bring both financial opportunity and difficult decisions. That's right, when siblings or other relatives inherit property together, it creates some challenges. They have to decide whether to sell it. Do they want to rent or keep the home while continuing to cover property taxes and insurance and maintenance and repairs? These decisions are becoming more common as trillions of dollars in wealth are expected to pass between generations in the coming decades. The latest number I've heard between now and 2048 is $124 trillion, just absolutely incredible, the amount of wealth changing hands here. And rising home values have made real estate an especially significant part of many inheritances.
Experts say disagreements can arise when heirs have different financial needs or emotional attachments to a property. Delaying a decision can also become costly because expenses continue even while the family considers its options. Tax considerations matter as well. Inherited property receives, of course, a new cost basis based on its fair market value at the owner's death, making a timely appraisal important. Financial and estate planning professionals recommend discussing plans for family property well in advance. Clear instructions, appropriate wills or trusts, maybe a TODD—transfer-on-death deed—allowing it to pass similar to a beneficiary designation outside of probate if your state allows it, is another tool that's often used. You also want to define a timeline for making decisions; that can help reduce conflict, control costs, and protect the property's value. So, something to consider among other things as we think about estate planning and this largest asset that most people have, many people have, and that is their home. And hopefully, that gives you a few things to think about today.
All right, the calls are coming in. Still a few lines open. If you have a question, now's a great time to call: 800-525-7000. That's 800-525-7000. Let's begin today in Tennessee. Sandra, thanks for your call. Go ahead.
Sandra: Thank you for taking my call. I'm trying to figure out about death insurance. I'm 69, and it's just myself, and so my family's kind of on my case how that I don't have any burial insurance. And so I'm finally getting around to thinking about purchasing some. And one offer I've been offered is for 25,000 for just simple burial insurance. For my age of 69, I would have to pay them $149 per month. And if I live to be 120 years old, then they would just mail me a check for that 25,000. But I'm calling to see if that's a reasonable fee for such a need.
Rob West: Yeah, yeah, it's a great question. Is this a term policy, or where the premiums could increase later, or is it final expense insurance with fixed premiums that never increase?
Sandra: It never increases, he said. It's going to be a fixed fee.
Rob West: Okay, great. Yeah, so if the premiums are fixed for life and never increase, then 149 a month for 25,000 isn't necessarily a bad deal for someone approaching 70, especially if it was issued based on your health and not guaranteed issue. I would say the premium is definitely on the higher side, though. So I wouldn't say it's, you know, just a non-starter, but it is on the higher side. You know, I would say if you need the coverage, which it sounds like you do, you have health issues that would make, you know, replacing that more expensive or impossible, and you can afford the 149 a month, you know, then I think it does fill a need. I guess my question would just be: are there other assets that could be available where you would not have to bear this expense? Because, you know, that's obviously going to add up over time. I mean, 17, roughly $1,800 a year is not insignificant, and you could stick that in savings. But do you have any other assets?
Sandra: No, I don't.
Rob West: Okay, yeah. So you're just thinking about it, and you don't have this policy now, but you really don't have this anything else. You know, I think if the goal is really just the funeral and burial costs, I think the other consideration is to look at whether you actually need 25,000. I mean, a 10 to 15,000 final expense policy really could be enough. I mean, that's where most funerals come in at, and you could even do the pre-planning, even if you don't pay for it in advance, you could go ahead and pre-plan it. And, you know, if you could cut that 25 down to 10 or even 15, you know, you could see a lower premium.
I would also make sure, if you're in good health, that you have a fully underwritten final expense policy rather than what's called guaranteed issue. Because if they take the time—and again, assuming you're in good health—to actually do the medical underwriting, it could be significantly less expensive. A guarantee issue means they don't even consider your medical condition, and then, you know, they just come up with the premium. That's always going to be higher than somebody, you know, who's able to be medically underwritten, but that assumes you don't have serious health issues. So I think my counsel to you would be, if there's not other assets and you want to cover this, let's look at dialing it back to maybe 10 to 15,000, let's do the pre-planning to make sure that's going to be sufficient, and then if you're in good health, make sure you look at some other policies that have full medical underwriting to get it down. Thanks for your call. We'll be right back.
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Rob West: Great to have you with us today on Faith & Finance here on American Family Radio. I'm Rob West. Hey, if you want to find an advisor who shares your values, consider checking out a Certified Kingdom Advisor in your area. There's likely one in your town. There's 2,000 of them around the country, and even if you don't have one in your area, many of them will work remotely. Uh, maybe you visit together in person once a year and the rest of the meetings uh are virtual. Uh, but you can take a look when you head to findacka.com. That's findacka.com. Uh, we've got uh three lines open taking your calls and questions today, 800-525-7000. You can call right now. Uh, let's head to uh North Carolina, Denny. How can I help you?
Denny: Thanks for taking my call.
Rob West: Yes, sir.
Denny: Um, I just have a a question. We—my wife and I received a small inheritance. To us, it's huge, but to most people, it's probably small. Um, we are both retired. Um, we don't have a lot of retirement, um, just because of circumstances in our life. We have under $100,000 between the two of us as far as retirement. We are not using it. It's just sitting there, growing at the time. My question is, our inheritance, um, was roughly uh $60,000, which is what we owe on our mortgage. Should we pay off our mortgage?
Rob West: Hm, yeah. Uh, so the balance is roughly 60,000, which is equal to the inheritance. What uh is that interest rate?
Denny: Uh, 4 and a quarter.
Rob West: Okay, 4.25%. And um, yeah, so as you look at this, so you have your uh just under 200,000, but you said that's not in a retirement plan. That's just like in a savings account or something?
Denny: Uh, under 100,000, and and they are in retirement accounts.
Rob West: Oh, okay. Uh, what is that invested in?
Denny: Um, the—it was just uh for both of us, just a plan that was through our jobs.
Rob West: Okay. And is that in stocks and bonds, mutual funds, or is it sitting in money market? How do you have it invested, do you know?
Denny: Oh, stocks and bonds.
Rob West: Okay, yeah. Got it. Um, so, you know, I think I I wouldn't necessarily—I mean, listen, let me back up. If you have a conviction to be debt-free, uh I would pay off the house and not look back. I mean, I think the starting point is for you and your wife to come together and say, based on our values as Christ followers and and the convictions we have, and as we've prayed about it, if you feel, you know, clear that the Lord is directing you to pay off that house, and, you know, that would give you some more peace of mind to own it free and clear. Obviously, the fact that you can pay it in full is a big deal because then you could recoup the monthly payment every month. If you, you know, just pay toward the principal, but you don't pay it off, it doesn't affect your monthly um expenses. But if you can pay it off, obviously, that mortgage goes away, and now you free up that payment to redirect to additional savings or something like that. But if any of those are true, I would say go for it, and I would never say that's a bad decision.
Um, but if we just look at this purely from a financial standpoint, you know, and and you're able to cover the mortgage with your cash flow, you know, perhaps a bigger concern isn't the mortgage, but the lack of retirement assets. Um, so if you pay off the mortgage with the inheritance, yes, you eliminate that 4 and a quarter percent debt, but you have very little in the way of liquid assets outside of that uh retirement account, and you lose flexibility if an unexpected, you know, expense or let's say health care need arises in retirement. So, you know, perhaps another approach would be to say, "Okay, we're going to use this to shore up our emergency fund of 6, maybe even up to 12 months' worth of expenses as you head into retirement, or if you're already in retirement." And then consider investing some or, you know, all of that inheritance if you already have the emergency fund to strengthen your retirement reserves. And, you know, you could do that through uh an IRA or or something else. Um, you know, we could look at what those options are uh if either of you have, you know, any work that you're still doing, and you have a retirement plan available, and if not, you know, the IRA is really going to be your best option.
But, you know, again, the non-financial side says if really either there's a conviction there to be debt-free, or if you have peace of mind by paying it off, you know, you could go that route as well. I think that 4 and a quarter percent fixed-rate mortgage is relatively manageable, and, you know, you could fairly easily, with a properly diversified portfolio, do better than that, even after you pay some taxes if you can't get it all into a retirement account, um, just with a, you know, a really well-diversified, high-quality uh portfolio of investments, and you'd keep the money, so it would no longer be illiquid, which is what would happen when you drop it into the house. Um, but let me stop there and get your thoughts on that.
Denny: Um, those are all things that I I have considered. I I even spoke with my wife and said, "You know, what if we um tried to pay off uh, you know, $7,000 a year um for, you know, how- however long until we pay it off, or maybe $10,000, something like that?" And kind of like what you said, having cash on hand in case of an emergency. Yeah. Um, so, so it all it all sounds good to me. I'm Quite honestly, I'm ignorant when it comes to investing. I am I'm not good at that, uh, and I suppose I need to speak with a financial uh planner.
Rob West: Yeah. Yeah, I I think that would be a great move. Uh, somebody who could help you do some planning just to forecast out, you know, what the future is going to look like. I mean, nobody knows the future, except the Lord, but, you know, this idea that you're perhaps your greatest risk in this season of life is what we call longevity risk, you know. As we are living longer uh on average, you know, the question is, will we run out of money? And, uh, you know, what are you all living on right now? Just Social Security alone?
Denny: Uh, yeah. My my wife, she she works uh one one day a week. So so in addition to retirement for her is about 1,000 bucks. I'm a private contractor, so I I can still do side jobs and, you know, make a certain amount of money.
Rob West: Yeah.
Denny: But without impacting Social Security.
Rob West: Great. And do you have any uh, what I would call, emergency reserves apart from this roughly $60,000 worth of inheritance?
Denny: No.
Rob West: Okay. Yeah, so I think that's the biggest concern right now, because, you know, if something came out of left field, uh, you know, you could maybe work a few more hours or do something to try to cover it. But the the lack of reserves outside of a retirement account is, I think, a bigger deal than you getting rid of this 4 and a quarter percent mortgage. So, I would probably hang on to uh, you know, this money. Get it in, you know, put it into at least a high-yield savings. For instance, our friends at um, you know, AdelFi Christian Banking, the largest Christian banking credit union in the country, is offering 4% right now on their money market. Uh, you could go to faithfi.com/banking. I mean, that's an example of something you could do where you're essentially not taking any risk, it's insured, you're getting a nice rate of return almost equal to what you're paying on the the mortgage, but you also have now liquidity, you have access to funds if you need it.
And then I think the key would be, going back to your point, you know, could you all take some of your surplus through your work, and maybe even if you had the ability to do a little bit extra, and all that goes to prepaying the mortgage, so that as you guys transition into, you know, full retirement without pay, if that comes down the road by necessity, now the mortgage is gone, we've got a plan to get there, but in the meantime, we're hanging on to the liquidity, we're still funding retirement plans either at her work or in IRAs, and I think we've positioned you well for the future. So, hope that helps, Denny. We appreciate your call. We'll be right back.
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Rob West: Great to have you with us today on Faith & Finance here on American Family Radio. Well, Walker Wildmon and Jerry Bowyer are here. It's been a big week in the markets. Let's start there, Jerry. You know, a lot of strength, although we're getting some economic data today and, you know, perhaps mixed results on this new round of earnings. What do you make of kind of where we find ourselves right now with this economy?
Jerry Bowyer: Yeah. Well, I would say that the weak economic news makes perfect sense with the strong market performance because we're kind of back to the pattern we've been talking about for several years, which is the biggest investor in U.S. markets is not U.S. investors; it's our own central bank.
So when bad news comes from the economy, like losing 23,000 jobs rather than gaining, I think, 76,000 or 78,000 is what was expected, and finding out that over the past three months we created a lot fewer jobs than we thought we did, people say, "Oh, well that's bad economic news. That must be bad for markets." Well, normally it would be if the central bank were just there and fighting inflation and keeping the value of the currency stable, and there as a lender of last resort in case there's a panic. But that's not what it does. It intervenes in markets constantly to try to stimulate growth.
So if the economy's doing poorly, then investors look at that and say, "Well, the Fed probably won't hike as much as we all thought they were going to." And that's exactly what the Fed funds futures market says. I know that sounds like a technical thing, but it's just what the market is saying the Fed is likely to do.
So they do believe that it's going to hike rates—by the way, hike rates really just means they're contracting the money supply to fight inflation—but they think that there's a trade-off between growth and inflation. So if the economy is slowing and we have a weak jobs market, well, maybe the Fed won't be able to pull money out of the system. Maybe it'll have to put money into the system. Maybe it'll do monetary stimulus, and that's what drives up markets.
So how do I know that's what's happening here? Because when we talk about what did the market do today or whatever, people usually mean, "Well, what did the Dow do?", right? But there's a whole bunch of different markets, right? And, you know, some markets like the Nasdaq—that's the tech one—is a little bit more bubble, a little bit more speculative. So easy money drives that one up more, and that one went up more. Well, what did the dollar do? Well, the dollar fell in response to the bad jobs report. What did gold do? Gold went up. Ah, and I mentioned the Fed funds futures, "Oh, we're probably not going to get the hikes we expect."
So all that is consistently saying that what's happening today isn't about the fundamentals of the economy in and of itself; it's about how our central bank is likely to reflect and respond to the fundamentals of the economy. I don't think that's the way the system is supposed to work when it's working the way it's supposed to. I think that the Fed should basically keep the dollar stable and be around in case of panics as a lender of last resort, and that's it. But it is now, and has been for some time, the micromanager of our economy and of the markets.
And so, job market being weak, manufacturing's not doing so well, there's a lot of trade uncertainty, the war certainly doesn't help with any of this. One bright spot is construction jobs are up, and that probably has to do with data centers. So I would say, you and I have talked about this, pretty much the only thing that's really going on in the U.S. economy in terms of growth right now is AI and the capital expenditures to support it.
Rob West: Yeah. Yeah, I mean, are you surprised that we're sitting here where we are? I mean, we're at 54,000 on the Dow, we're approaching 7,800 on the S&P, and it seems like every couple of days we have this same theme: massive attack coming in Iran; wait, never mind, they want to negotiate. And that's just kind of on a loop right now, and yet the market's shrugging that off.
Jerry Bowyer: Well, yeah, because eventually it's Groundhog Day and you shrug it off, right? It's Groundhog Day, but with killing. So it's just over and over again. It's not a very inspiring thing to say, you know, to see what's going on. Like, you know, Iran says something, markets believe it; the president says something, markets believe it. At this point, markets don't seem to believe either very well. This war is definitely dragging on.
I know there are people listening to me right now who think this war is a terrible idea, and there are people listening to me right now who think this war was a great idea or at least necessary. That's not my job. As an economist, though, I'll say that this lingering war like this has consequences for the economy, and we're feeling them in the weak jobs market, in the high inflation. Our second-quarter growth rate was barely above zero, so not a recession, but what someone would call a growth recession. And markets reacting to our president and the dictatorship of Iran as though they are similarly credible. These are things that concern me.
Rob West: Yeah, no doubt about it. Well, we'll certainly keep an eye on it. Thanks for that analysis, Jerry. Let me pivot to the work that's going on in the area of corporate engagement. Walker, I love checking in each week because it just seems like there's incredible momentum right now. There's meaningful progress taking place. Give us your assessment on AFA's latest work in this area.
Walker Wildmon: Yeah, we're heading into a new corporate filing season. New shareholder opportunities are being worked on now. And there's a couple things that are on the forefront of our mind as we engage with these major multi-billion dollar companies.
The first one is protecting children and protecting young people online, especially with this evolution of AI and these AI chatbots and this just AI boom that is taking part in the economy. We want to make sure that companies are being responsible with how they're using and building these tools. There's a lot of damage that can be done if companies are not pressured within the private market to build these AI chatbots and these AI systems responsibly.
And then also, not just the harms to children, but also the biases that are currently built into some of these AI systems. For example, if you search "American Family Association" or search different topics related to conservatism or Christianity, you're going to get varying results, some of them untrue and very biased against Christianity and against groups like American Family Association. So we want to continually push back against that type of bias, because unfortunately, we could very well get to a place where the majority of the populace is using AI chats to get basic answers on their daily life. And so we need to make sure that these companies are building them responsibly and also building them with truth factored in.
And then lastly, these corporate sponsorships with groups like the Southern Poverty Law Center, which has been federally indicted by the DOJ for various financial crimes where they were paying KKK groups basically to foment hate and division and racism. Those companies, like Apple and others, don't need to be giving corporate donations to the Southern Poverty Law Center and other left-wing Marxist groups. So that's just a brief overview of some of the things we're going to be working on the next few months.
Rob West: Yeah, that's incredible. Jerry, what strikes me about what Walker just said is we're not, you know, going in asking for preferential treatment for Christians here. I mean, rooting out bias and protecting children is like core of the core, isn't it?
Jerry Bowyer: It is. Right, and it's preferential treatment for children, which is proper under U.S. law and under a pretty well universal moral code. Yeah, so when it comes to the treatment of Christians, these engagements are just asking for Christians to be treated the same way as everybody else.
So if somebody holds to Christian values on certain issues, and the Southern Poverty Law Center doesn't like that because some donor said, "Hey, you know, I don't like the American Family Association" or "I don't like Alliance Defending Freedom" or "I don't like Charlie Kirk, here's a million dollars, add them to your hate list," then that's biased treatment against us.
And, you know, other examples would be where companies where you can, as an employee, you can give a grant to Human Rights Campaign, or you can give a grant to the American Atheists Association or whatever, but you can't give a grant to AFA, or you can't give a grant to Alliance Defending Freedom, or you can't give a grant to your church even. And we've seen a lot of companies change those policies.
And so AFA is going to be engaging a lot. I'm looking here at the big board here on companies that are aligned with the Southern Poverty Law Center or have been in the past. Now, it might be that, you know, Walker goes into this or I go into these meetings and they say, "Well, wait a minute, we don't do that anymore. You know, we stopped giving to Southern Poverty Law Center last year." Okay, great! Then Walker might withdraw the proposal and say, "Well, that's good, I'm glad you did that." Or they might say, "Well, we don't give to them," and then we say, "Well, what about your Benevity giving platform?" And often we have found situations where companies are using Southern Poverty Law Center and they didn't know, and we were able to work with AFA and others to shine the light on that, and then they drop that.
So this looks like a really good season for AFA and for the rest of the ecosystem. We're off to a great start early this year, already some big wins, and the season is just starting. It was a really great season last year; looks like it's going to be an even greater season this year.
Rob West: Incredible. Folks, as you're thinking about this work, and you're hearing Jerry and Walker talk about these really critical issues where real progress is being made, and you're celebrating that as I am, think about the stocks you hold and perhaps a gift you could make to AFA directly through the AFA Foundation, so that they could take these, evaluate them, and see if possibly there's an engagement opportunity there. And you can go to afafoundation.net. Walker, I'll give you the last word here.
Walker Wildmon: Yeah, we're experiencing incredible momentum. Companies are paying attention. There's been this massive backlash over the last several years on this woke, you know, Marxist agenda and the constant DEI and victimhood and, you know, all these left-wing narratives that demonize groups and individuals and our Christian faith.
And so we're just going to keep capitalizing on this momentum. And the good thing is, is that from here, the goal is to only get more groups involved. So more charities, more Christian organizations, more universities, more private schools and endowments all need to get on board with this corporate engagement move, because the left has been doing this for a long, long time, and we have a lot of room to make up here. But the good news is, is there's tons of organizations out there that are not currently engaged in corporate engagement, and so there's a lot of opportunity for folks to jump in.
Rob West: Very good. Well, keep up the good work, gentlemen. We appreciate your time today.
Jerry Bowyer: Thank you. God bless you.
Walker Wildmon: Thank you.
Rob West: All right. That's Walker Wildmon, Jerry Bowyer. We're so thankful to have them each week on this segment.
Hey, before we wrap up, let me mention again: National Truth for Youth Bible Week going on right now. Still looking for more than 16,000 Bibles to be ordered to be able to be placed in the hands of a young person in your house to pass off to a student who doesn't know Jesus on their campus. If you can go to tfy.org or call 800-733-4737, you can help us reach our goal: 65,000 Bibles on campus through AFR and your help. Call right now. See you next week.
Announcer: The views and opinions expressed in this broadcast may not necessarily reflect those of the American Family Association or American Family Radio.
It's often said that wisdom may create wealth, but wealth rarely creates wisdom. What's more valuable: wisdom or wealth? Before you respond, consider that wealth is fleeting, but wisdom is enduring. On this Faith & Finance on AFR, Rob West and John Cortines talk about why wisdom over wealth is always the right choice. Then, it’s on to calls.
(00:00) Rob West and John Cortines wisdom and its relationship to wealth
(08:30) Rob West and John Coritines continue their conversation on wisdom and wealth
(21:44) In the News: How siblings are handling joint inheritances and the importance of estate planning
(23:56) Caller Sandra: Evaluating burial insurance options
(31:56) Caller Denny: Retired, received inheritance. Should they use money to pay off mortgage
(42:10) Jerry Bowyer joins Rob West to give his analysis of markets and what the federal reserve is likely to do
(45:43) Jerry Bowyer talks about the relationship between the Iran conflict and markets
(47:15) Walker Wildmon and Jerry Bowyer give an update on corporate engagement and the American Family Associations upcoming plans
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