Rob West: Some of the earliest financial supporters of Jesus' ministry were women. Hi, I'm Rob West. Luke 8 tells us that Mary Magdalene, Joanna, Susanna, and many others followed Jesus and supported his ministry from their own resources. Today, Sharon Epps joins us to explore what their example teaches us about grace, generosity, and using our influence for God's purposes. Then we have lots of great listener questions ahead that we won't be taking your live calls today because this program is pre-recorded. This is Faith and Finance on American Family Radio.
Rob West: Well, we always look forward to Sharon Epps stopping by. Sharon is president of Kingdom Advisors and one of the founders of Women Doing Well, a ministry that helps women grow as faithful, generous stewards. And with women poised to play such a significant role in the great wealth transfer we talk about so often, that work is especially timely. Sharon, welcome back.
Sharon Epps: Thank you, Rob. And as you know, this is one of my favorite topics.
Rob West: I sure do, and that's why I'm so excited to dive in. And I'm also thrilled about this article you have in the latest issue of Faithful Steward Magazine called "The Women Who Followed and Funded Jesus' Ministry". You highlight several women who not only followed Jesus but also supported his ministry financially. This is an important detail in God's Word we might often overlook. So, Sharon, who were these women, and what makes their story so significant?
Sharon Epps: Well, you'll find their story in Luke 8:1–3, and you mentioned several of them: Mary Magdalene, Joanna, Susanna, and many others. And I was so excited when I found this Scripture and realized the great role that they had to play in the fulfillment of the Gospel. These women actually received from Jesus, and that experience moved them to give. Some had been healed of evil spirits and infirmities, and Mary Magdalene in particular had had seven demons removed from her. In a culture where women rarely held financial agency, they used their own means to underwrite the ministry that changed the world. Their generosity flowed out of the healing and grace that they had already received.
Rob West: That's right. Their generosity began with what they had first received from Jesus. Sharon, how should that shape the way we understand and practice generosity today?
Sharon Epps: It's a really significant truth, because God always pours into us first. Think about it: our breath, our skills, our life, and our resources are all gifts from Him. And when we remember that everything we have is grace, generosity becomes the natural overflow. And just like those first-century women, modern daughters of the King can see their money, time, and talents as tools that God entrusted to them so His life can reach others.
Rob West: The Latin phrase incurvatus in se, meaning "curved in on oneself," describes our tendency to turn inward and make life about ourselves. Sharon, why is that such a danger, especially when it comes to money, and how can generosity help turn our hearts outward?
Sharon Epps: You know, I think our fast-paced world causes us to really turn to self-care. In fact, I ran across this made-up word: we become "exhaust-overwhel-mulated." And that means exhausted, overwhelmed, and overstimulated. And in that case, we just turn instinctively inward for relief. But yet, when we can breathe in God's care, we can resist the self-focus and actually flow outward, let His generosity flow through us, even when life feels heavy.
Rob West: Oh, that's so good. These women didn't simply give financially; they also used their influence to serve Jesus' ministry. What might that kind of faithful influence look like for women today?
Sharon Epps: Well, we can use our economic resources, our investing practices, and even our daily work to help promote human flourishing by supporting a local ministry, stewarding a business ethically, or investing in projects that restore what evil has taken. We can use our positions and relationships as part of God's work of restoration.
Rob West: We sure can. So for the woman who wants to live generously but already feels stretched thin, what's one simple step she can take today?
Sharon Epps: Start by remembering your identity: you are a daughter of the King. Pause long enough to breathe in His love and acknowledge that He is our ultimate provider. Then look for just one small, concrete way you can share. Maybe it's meeting a need that you just noticed today. And those small acts of generosity can become a way of life.
Rob West: Well, that's such great advice. Generosity begins with receiving God's grace and then faithfully turning what He's entrusted to us outward for the good of others. Sharon, thanks so much for stopping by.
Sharon Epps: My pleasure, Rob.
Rob West: That's Sharon Epps, president of Kingdom Advisors. This month, we're releasing our first-ever special edition of Faithful Steward Magazine focused on women and wealth. You can check it out today when you become a partner at faithfi.com/give. We'll be right back.
SEGMENT 2
Rob West: Great to have you with us today on Faith and Finance on American Family Radio. This is where each day we gather together to mind the Scriptures, to unpack the ideas and principles we see in God's Word related to money management as you live, give, owe, and grow. By the way, you know God's Word speaks to every one of those areas. You know, there's only four things you can do with money. Now, you might say, "Rob, how is that possible? It seems like there's an unlimited number of things I can do with my money." And yeah, that's true, but they fit into four categories: it's your lifestyle, the money you live on; the money you give; the money you owe, for debt and for taxes; and the money you grow, your savings, both short-term and long-term. And everything fits into one of those four, and God's Word speaks to each of those. You know, we should live appropriately; we need to pursue contentment and be on our guard in such a way that we don't allow our lifestyle, the pursuit of the things of this world, our material possessions to compete with our hearts for God. So when we live appropriately and with contentment, we're able to enjoy what God has entrusted to us and certainly provide for our families, which is very biblical, but doing it in such a way that it doesn't crowd out God's plans and will for our lives. We then give, and of course we want to give really first, because I think the primary purpose for what God has entrusted to us is for our giving. And then we owe, and we have to be careful here, especially when it comes to debt, because as I mentioned, this is one of the primary ways that we presume upon the future when we are encumbered by debt. And we need to be on our guard there, seeking to only use debt for productive uses. I would say that's where the economic return is greater than the economic cost—think appreciating assets like businesses and homes, not cars, certainly not consumer spending. So we avoid debt wherever possible, and we seek to get out of debt over time. And then we grow, and that's our savings. We want to save appropriately there, because the key for both live and grow is to start with the question: how much is enough? Now, you might be saying, "Well, it'd be great if I could get to the point where I had to ask how much is enough; I'm just trying to make ends meet," and I get that. And that's where a lot of folks find themselves, and that's why we need to be really careful about living on a spending plan and having our expenses dialed in around a plan that reflects our values and our priorities, of course meets our obligations. And in different seasons of life, that's going to be much more challenging than others; that's where we trust the Lord for His provision, and we accept what He's provided and live within that. Now, doesn't mean we don't try to improve that—maybe, you know, get a better-paying job, or maybe work with an, you know, seek out a second job, or try to reduce spending. I mean, we need to do our part, but at the end of the day, God is our provider. And then we need to ask the question: how much is enough for our savings, both for the short term—and that's where we recommend three to six months for your emergency funds—and then for the long term? What is our ultimate goal for accumulation? How much are we trying to save over the long haul, and what is that number? It's not about the mindless accumulation of wealth; there really should be a financial finish line. So as we go back to God's Word, we see the big ideas and themes around each of these areas, and then we want to live accordingly. Again: live, give, owe, and grow. Hopefully, that's helpful to you as you think about how you apply God's counsel and wisdom to the actual decisions and choices you're making today.
Rob West: Now, what about passing this on to the next generation? Because it's one thing for us to develop a biblical worldview around money management; it's an entirely different thing for us to pass that on to a child, a future adult that needs to not only have the financial literacy skills—avoiding the dangers of debt, working hard, living within their means on a spending plan, giving generously, leveraging compound savings and investing for the future—all of those skills that are necessary, but also a biblical worldview. So they're not discovering that for the first time as adults, but they're actually seeing that modeled and discussed at home prior to leaving: the fact that God owns it all, and that we're stewards or managers, and money's a tool, it's morally neutral, and it can be used for good or bad. Well, what does it look like to intentionally transfer these ideas, both the financial and the spiritual, to our kids? Remember Mark 8:36, which says, "For what does it profit a man to gain the whole world and forfeit his soul?" Well, let's talk about those different age ranges here for a moment, because I think this could be helpful. You know, as you think about ages 3 to 5, these are the early years, of course. We can already start to communicate God's ownership. You know, talking about the fact to these youngsters that God owns everything, and we're only stewards. Take them to the very first passage in the Bible, Genesis 1:1: "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth." So it's all His. Show them Psalm 24:1: "The earth is the Lord's, and everything in it, the world, and all who live within it." So we can begin to talk about the idea that God owns it all. And that work, buying things, requires money that is earned. And work is a good thing; it was not a punishment, it actually preceded the fall of man. And so we can talk about, even in these early years, why working hard is important, and that money is what we have to use to buy things. You know, Philippians 4:19: "And my God will supply every need of yours according to his riches in glory in Christ Jesus." So we need to talk about needs versus wants; that's of course going to become a bigger and bigger idea as they get older. We want them to start hearing about that early. What about the importance of gratitude? That can start in this age range of 3 to 5 as well: that everything is a gift from God, and we should be grateful for what He's given us. John 3:27: "A person cannot receive even one thing unless it's given him from heaven." And 1 Thessalonians 5:18: "In everything give thanks, for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you." So we can start even in ages 3 to 5 communicating these ideas: that there is a biblical model for how we should think about money, and there's some important skills we need to learn.
Rob West: Karen called—she couldn't hold—but she and her husband have an annuity, and they're wondering about charitable giving out of an annuity. And you know, I love this question, because when we've got an investment asset and we're wanting to think about how we can give generously, you know your balance sheet is your greatest potential for giving. With regard to an annuity, and that was I think the question Karen was hitting on, it does allow you through a charitable gift annuity to fund the work of a ministry and receive lifetime income while you're living. So here's the way it works: you would essentially make a gift into a charitable gift annuity at a ministry. In exchange for that, they give you an income stream for life based on your age and the amount of money that you put in, and then you get a partial tax deduction as the money goes in. Once you pass away, whatever is remaining after your death, that then is given to the ministry or the charity. And so it's really a great opportunity for folks in that retirement season of life looking for income, also wanting to bless a ministry that's on their heart. You can kind of do both at the same time and get some tax advantages. So when we think about giving and annuities, the charitable gift annuity is really that primary vehicle. The other approach, if you just have kind of a vanilla-flavored annuity, another type of annuity, really your best opportunity there is just to take a straight withdrawal from that annuity and then donate those proceeds to a charity. That would help offset any of the tax bite you get by taking the withdrawal. By the way, when it comes to giving off of your balance sheet, some of the more common opportunities that are overlooked are: number one, appreciated stock; another opportunity there would be gifts of a business interest; also gifts of a real estate interest. And a lot of those will use what's called a donor-advised fund, and our friends at the National Christian Foundation can help you out with that if you're interested in learning more.
Rob West: All right, a quick break, and then back with much more. Stick around; we'll be right back.
SEGMENT 3
Rob West: Great to have you with us today on Faith and Finance on American Family Radio. Our team is away today, so don't call in, but we lined up some great questions in advance, and we'll be going to those here in just a moment. Let me also remind you that the advice that I give each day on this program is general in nature. We offer principles and ideas that apply at a high level; they are not personalized. So that's why you should always seek professional financial advice. And if you'd like to find a professional who shares your values, we, of course, here at Faith and Finance recommend the Certified Kingdom Advisor designation. These are men and women who've met high standards, and they've been trained to bring a biblical worldview of financial decision-making. You can find one at faithfi.com. Let's go to Huntington, Indiana. Wesley, go ahead.
Wesley: Uh, yes. We have this month a decision on an annuity with IRA pre-tax, and we've had to keep it in for 10 years in order to get the promised—I think it was 15% at first. When I looked at it recently for their protected value, they call it, it was a little more. But in order to get that, we have to take it out in installments, I think of 5%. Over the years, it's kind of kept up, but sometimes it's no interest and it fluctuates a lot. So it's guaranteed not to lose, but not to gain over 15.
Rob West: Yeah.
Wesley: I'm wondering if there are better ways to invest that aren't—we're almost 80, in our 80s now, so we don't want to have risky investment, but if we could invest in kingdom-valued items too, it would be more interesting to us.
Rob West: Yeah, very good. So what you're describing here is not an increase in the actual account value. Instead, it's what you called, and what they call, a protected value. So it's an income base or a benefit base, and that's used only to calculate guaranteed lifetime or installment income. So here's how it works: You have the actual account value, which is the cash value; that's the amount that you actually own and could withdraw or transfer. Then you have the protected value, or the income base. That's a higher phantom value—doesn't really exist as cash—it exists only to calculate the guaranteed withdrawals. So it's not a lump sum that you can cash out; it's just this higher amount that they use to determine the income base. And so your account value, for example, might be 200,000; your protected value might be 250,000, 25% higher. And then if the contract says you can withdraw 5% annually from the protected value, then in my example, you'd get 5% of 250,000—so 12,500 a year—instead of 5% of the 200,000 (the cash value), which would be 10. And then the extra 2,500 a year comes from the insurance company's guarantee. But you can't take that as a lump sum. So if you take the lump sum payout or surrender the contract, then you would receive only the actual account value. In terms of what else you might do, you know, if you have a desire for safety and faith-aligned investments, you know, I would say you want to just look at whether, you know, from a financial planning standpoint, you want to give up that guaranteed income benefit. You certainly want to understand what it's worth fully before you make that decision. And if the protected value is truly somewhere between a 15 and 30% enhancement, by taking the 5% installments, you know, that could be difficult to replicate elsewhere with comparable safety. That said, if you decide to move the money after evaluating the contract, then you could look at a faith-based fixed income portfolio with high-quality bonds; you could look at a balanced portfolio that has some stocks in it. You know, you could use one of the Certified Kingdom Advisors that uses the faith-based asset managers like Timothy, or Guidestone, or Eventide, or OneAscent. But I would, you know, just make sure you've thought through what your needs are and what you're giving up before you move it out of there, and just make sure that, you know, it is truly going to meet your income needs long term. Do you have an advisor, Wesley, who could walk through all of this with you and do some planning?
Wesley: Uh, yeah. I asked the person who advised us in getting into the annuity if he was an advisor beyond the annuity, and he didn't answer, so I assume he's not.
Rob West: Okay. Yeah, so what you might want to do is go to our website—if you're comfortable with that—findacka.com, and see if you can find a Certified Kingdom Advisor in the area. Maybe you interview two or three and pick the one that you think is the best fit. But what you'd be looking for is two things: One is just to help you evaluate what's being offered to you through the existing annuity contract and how that fits into your overall financial plan and goals. And then secondly, what alternative investment strategy that perhaps brings a faith-based element into it, but still meets your risk tolerance, goals, and objectives, and supports your income needs long term. And then pray through that and decide which one is the best fit.
Wesley: And do you have any idea how the advice is paid for to get an advisor?
Rob West: Uh, yeah, typically—I mean, unless you just engage someone directly for just financial planning, that might be on an engagement basis or an hourly basis—typically somebody who's going to offer financial planning and the investment management is usually a percentage of assets under management. And it's probably somewhere from just under 1% a year to as much as maybe 1 and a half percent a year of the total account value that's being managed.
Wesley: Okay, thank you for your help.
Rob West: Okay, Wesley, God bless you, my friend. Thanks for being on the program. Well, folks, we're going to take a quick break. When we come back, we've got a lot of great questions here. We're going to head out to Missouri and talk to Mary; we'll head to Florida and talk to Natalie, and then back to Illinois, Daniel's waiting with his question as well. Hey, our new field guide is out, How Much Is Enough? It'll help you work through setting a financial finish line for your lifestyle and what we call a lifetime finish line for your balance sheet. Could be a game changer as you understand how much is enough, and then possibly accelerate your giving. Check it out today at faithfi.com/shop. That's faithfi.com/shop. All right, a quick break and back with much more. Don't go anywhere; we're just getting started.
SEGMENT 4
Rob West: Well, it's great to have you with us today on Faith and Finance. By the way, if you've not checked out our website recently, we'd love for you to do that. The wealth of content, articles, podcasts, and videos there to help you be a wise and faithful steward of God's money is incredible. You'll find it all at faithfi.com. You can visit that on your smartphone or on your desktop—again, faithfi.com. Just click the "Content" button. Also, while you're there, check out the FaithFi app that can help you manage God's money and access all of this great content on the go. Just click the "App" tab. Let's go out to Missouri. Mary, thanks for calling. How can I help?
Mary: Hi, how are you today, Rob? Thanks for taking my call, and thank you for all you do. One of my siblings passed—my sister passed away four years ago, left everything to her daughter under a TOD account except for one bank account. The bank had originally said they were going to send it to unclaimed property after three years. We went online and found out that it's probably—it may be five years. But we went back up there recently, and now the bank is saying it's going to go to probate and not unclaimed property, when there is nothing else in probate. Her daughter—my niece—is trying to figure out what can we do. We took an affidavit of death and the death certificate that was recommended for us to do by an attorney to the bank, and they still wouldn't release the funds.
Rob West: Yeah. Well, I'm sorry about that. You know, that can be frustrating as you're trying to get this all closed down, and you've got this just one account remaining. And I can certainly understand that you'd want to get it taken care of. You know, essentially, basically, if you've—well, I think the first thing I would do is ask the bank why the affidavit was rejected. Is it because the account exceeds the small estate limit? Is it because the affidavit wasn't the correct one? Or are they requiring probate for some other reason? Did they say?
Mary: They said that they would not accept that because the bank account was in my sister's name only. And this bank is saying that because it's account—and we know that it's less than $30,000–$40,000. This was a bank account that she used to pay her monthly bills out of. It's probably not that much in there. But the bank is still taking a monthly fee every month for non-activity.
Rob West: Yeah. Well, I certainly understand that, and yeah, that's frustrating as well. Yeah, essentially, it sounds like, you know, the bank's position is probably that, unless the estate qualifies for a small estate procedure under the state's law, you know, that's maybe why they're saying it needs to go through the estate process—the probate process. I mean, a next step would be you could ask to speak to the bank's estate department, not just the local branch. And I would ask them, "Why doesn't the affidavit qualify? What legal document do you need to receive the funds?" If they just simply insist that probate is required, you could ask specifically whether it qualifies for a small estate affidavit or what's called a summary probate in that state, because many states have a simplified process, but the dollar limit varies. So you would just need to see, you know, if you're under that; and if you are, that may expedite things. If it has $30,000 to $40,000, that may exceed the small estate affidavit limit, and so they may legitimately be requiring probate, and that may be exactly right, just depending on the rules of your state.
Mary: Well, the last statement that my niece received at the home, probably a couple of years ago, she said it was probably less than $10,000 in there. So it's not like it's a whole lot of money. You said small estate—we should ask for small estate what?
Rob West: Yeah, so you'd want to ask them specifically if it qualifies for the small estate affidavit or what's called a summary probate. Because if it's truly under $10,000, there's probably a simplified procedure available depending on the state. In some states, the bank's specific affidavit can be used to collect a deceased person's bank account without opening full probate. But each state has a different threshold or requirement, and that's why I think going to the bank's estate department in writing and asking why it was rejected, and whether it can be released on a more simplified basis, I think, you know, would be important, because they'll know exactly what the thresholds are and whether this could be expedited in a way that doesn't require full probate.
Mary: Okay, so the estate department at the bank. Okay. In writing. Thank you so much. Thank you.
Rob West: All right, Mary. All the best to you. Call anytime. Let's go down to Florida. Natalie, how can I help?
Natalie: Good afternoon, Rob. My husband just passed on July 11th, and I received our insurance money last week. And I had asked my husband, "What would you like me to do? We still have a mortgage. Should I take that money and dump it to help pay off the mortgage?" And he said, "No," because we had a lot of home repairs. Now our local church is helping us with all those expenses. I want to be wise in this money, and I want to keep at least half for emergency funds, and the rest of the half—which is $25,000—invest it. I don't know, the money market savings account will, as you know, give me next to nothing. So I want to be wise about that.
Rob West: Yeah. Well, I'm so sorry to hear about your husband's passing, Natalie.
Natalie: Thank you. Thank you.
Rob West: I appreciate your approach here and just kind of how you're thinking through this. And you want to be sure not to make any major decisions, you know, for at least six months; but I think really considering what to do with these funds, and I love that you even talked to your husband about that before he passed. And what a blessing that your church is willing to step in and help with some of these repairs. Yeah, I love the idea of you building the emergency fund first; and if your desire is to invest the remainder for your long-term needs, I like that a lot. I agree—I wouldn't put that in a money market. I would probably, you know, get that invested in a properly diversified stock and bond portfolio. Given the amount of money, it's probably going to be, you know, something like a mutual fund, or exchange-traded fund, or a robo-advisor. Are you thinking at least a 10-year time horizon on this?
Natalie: Oh, yeah! He was 11 years older. So I'm not even thinking about retirement right now. I work full time, and I just came off completing my Christian credit counseling, praise God! We have no debt!
Rob West: Oh, wow! That's amazing!
Natalie: Except my used car payment now, and I try to pay that very consistently. I'm pretty diligent about how I pay bills, thank God. The mortgage and that, I can afford. I can afford right now, yeah.
Rob West: And what are your income sources?
Natalie: It's just my payroll that comes in every two weeks. We had a very low mortgage at a 3.87% interest rate, and right now I'm staying still. I don't know what the Lord wants me to do with the house; and like you said, I'm thinking six months to a year. I don't know where He plans to plant me or am I going to stay where I'm at. So I want to be wise, and if He says, "Well, it's time to move," well, then I'll have moving expenses together and all of that.
Rob West: Yeah, very good. All right, well, let's do this: I've got a couple of additional questions, and then I think we can map out a plan going forward. Stay on the line. I've got to hit this break, but you and I will pick that up right on the other side. And then we'll head to Illinois. Daniel wants to talk about recommendations and guidelines to buy a home based on the income that he has. We'd love to chat about that. And then Chris is asking about refinancing her mortgage. Stick around, much more to come.
SEGMENT 5
Rob West: Great to have you with us today on Faith and Finance here on American Family Radio. I'm Rob West. Before the break, we were talking to Natalie, and unfortunately, her husband just recently passed away after battling sickness for more than a year. And she's just wondering the path forward, specifically for some life insurance they received. She's going to use half of it, $25,000, to shore up their emergency fund, and she wanted to invest the other half. She's debt-free—she used Christian Credit Counselors, so that's great to get out of credit card debt. Still a home mortgage of $80,000, car debt of $23,000. You know, one option, Natalie, would be to pay off that car loan. Um, you know, if that if that's an interest rate of 7% or higher, you'd get a guaranteed return on that. And then you could take the difference of what you were sending to the car payment and then have your employer put that into your retirement plan on a monthly basis equal to that payment that you no longer have. And then you'd be have you'd have that go in tax-deferred, so you'd get a deduction on that. And then you could manage it all through your 403(b) rather than trying to invest that on a taxable basis. And then you'd be down to just your home, and you'd get money going back into that 403(b), which I know you were you stopped about a year ago, but give me your thoughts on that.
Natalie: Wow, I never I that never occurred to me. That that really standard—yeah, and it would just lose all ends. I would just have the mortgage, wouldn't be a problem. That was my biggest concern, but um I'm in a tax bracket that, you know, that wouldn't be a financial hardship. Not at all.
Rob West: Yeah. Yeah, I think that would be good. I'd love for you to get money going into that 403(b), because as it goes in, you're getting the tax deduction, and then it grows tax-deferred. Whereas if we were to take this $25,000 that's left over after you shore up your emergency fund and invest it in a taxable account, now all of a sudden every time you have a gain in the account, you're having to pay capital gains tax. So I think I'd kind of like you to have the peace of mind of knowing I only have one debt. The goal is to pay that off before you eventually retire, so you're completely debt-free. And now you take, you know, at the very least, maybe a little bit more, but at the very least the same amount you were sending to the car and have your HR department, you know, take that out of each check and put it into your 403(b). Um, in terms of Social Security, as you pointed out while we talked off the break, at 59 you're not eligible yet for the the survivor's benefit unless you're disabled, which you're not. Um, in most cases, the survivor's benefit, um, you know, can begin at age 60, but it would be reduced. So you want, just given that you're planning to work as long as you can, you want to wait until your full retirement age, which would be 67, for your survivor's benefits, and you could get 100% of what your husband was entitled to, assuming that's higher than your own benefit. Uh, yours may be higher, and if it is, great. But if his is, you would have the option to do that. Uh, now one planning opportunity is that survivor's benefits and retirement benefits have separate claiming rules. So you may be able to take, uh, you know, depending on which is higher, uh, you could take your own retirement benefit first, assuming his is higher, and then switch to his later at full retirement age, and then, you know, you'd get the benefit of yours now, and you wouldn't have any reduction on his. Um, or if his if yours is higher, you could take the reduced survivor benefit at age 60 and then switch to your own benefit later. Um, so you do have that option that you may want to look at.
Natalie: Okay. Um, can I ask you one question I forgot to mention? He's a veteran. Would that play into now I'm going through the paperwork for that? It's enormous, very overwhelming, but I am entitled to something monthly. Um, it's not going to be much because it's income-based on my salary and it's almost poverty line kind of what they mentioned.
Rob West: Got it, yes. Yeah, I mean that the being a veteran could make a big difference here. Um, in terms of the compensation, you know, there could be a tax-free monthly benefit for a surviving spouse. Uh, if he Did he pass from a service-connected condition?
Natalie: Oh, no, he had liver cancer. No.
Rob West: Okay. All right. Um, yeah, I mean really, you may want to look into that. Um, so he wasn't receiving any VA compensation of any kind.
Natalie: Oh, he was not. He was not eligible.
Rob West: Okay, so then the only other thing would be, and maybe this is what you're referring to, the Survivor's Pension, which is a needs-based monthly benefit available to a surviving spouse of veterans who meet an income and net worth limit.
Natalie: Right, right. And I won't meet that.
Rob West: Oh, okay, yeah, yeah. So then there's probably not anything there. I mean, it's worth looking into, but probably not a whole lot there. So...
Natalie: Right, right.
Rob West: Well, Natalie, you're doing a great job managing all this. I know it's a lot. I want to send you a book called Wise Women Managing Money that was written for widows in a situation just like yours. I think it'll be an encouragement to you, and if I can help further along the way, please don't hesitate to reach out. Thanks for your call today. Let's go to Illinois. Hi Daniel, go ahead.
Daniel: Hey, how's it going?
Rob West: Good, thanks for your call.
Daniel: Uh, my question is I'm interested in purchasing a home. I'm currently working two jobs to save up for a home, and my question would be if my income is approximately $20,000 to $25,000 per year, um, what's the mortgage rate that I need to or should uh should subscribe to and to so I can like what do you recommend for someone who wants to buy a house for the first time? Like what's the what's the most appropriate rate to to sign with?
Rob West: Yes, it's a it's a great question, and you know, it's it's challenging right now just because home affordability is really difficult. We've got interest rates high for the for the mortgage, and we've got home prices high as well. Uh, so the $25,000, that's from both jobs that you're working combined?
Daniel: Uh, yeah. Yeah, and I even do side jobs like carpentry and construction side jobs.
Rob West: Okay. But that's annual, so you're bringing in about $2,000 a month?
Daniel: Uh, yeah. Yeah, this is about $1,800–$2,000.
Rob West: Yeah, okay. Yeah, I mean, so really what you want to do is look at your net pay. So let's say your after-tax pay was $2,000. I mean, the challenge is I would really love for you to not have more than 30% going to your principal, interest, taxes, and insurance. So that's that's $600 a month, which is going to be really challenging, um, just depending on what you're looking to buy. So I think I think your focus right now should just be let's not get overextended by trying to buy a home too quickly. Let's just focus on renting for now. Let's save where possible, starting with that emergency fund. Make sure you've you're not carrying any high-interest debt. And then just start saving as much as you can for that down payment with a goal of 20% down of whatever that purchase price is and a mortgage payment, including taxes and insurance, that's no more than 30% of your take-home pay. And that gives you a rough guideline, so you could start looking around to see what's out there and figuring out, okay, if I you know, if let's say by waiting, you know, you're able to get that down payment up and maybe your income, you know, grows to where now you're making $30,000 or $40,000, well, you know, now all of a sudden you can do a $1,000 a month payment instead of $600. But I think for the time being, I would just really focus on building up that emergency fund of three to six months expenses, getting something going into a retirement account on a modest basis, and then just trying to plow as much as you can into that down payment fund and then work on letting your income grow over time and and being patient on that home purchase.
Daniel: All right, yeah, that hits the nail on the head. Thank you.
Rob West: All right, you're welcome. All the best to you, my friend. Thanks for calling. Hey, stay on the line. I'm going to send you Ron Blue's book Master Your Money. It's a classic. I read it coming out of college, and it was a game changer for me. It'll kind of give you a good overview of just all the key ideas on how you need to think about your financial life, both spiritually from a biblical perspective, but also practically in terms of investments, savings, debt, budgets, and all the things you need to know. It's called Master Your Money by Ron Blue, and we'll send it to you as our gift, Daniel, so hang on the line. Uh, let's finish today in Chicago. Chris, go ahead.
Chris: Hi, I have a mortgage for at about a 5.25 interest rate, and I have two car payments at a higher interest rate, and, um, also, um, a medical bill, uh, through CareCredit, um, that I would need to pay in a year, or it would be at a high interest rate, too. I have an offer from someone—I have a FHA loan right now. I have an offer from one of the lending companies to, uh, consolidate all of this and refinance the mortgage. Uh, it would be at a 6.25, uh, but at the same time, there would just be one bill. I'm wondering, um, if you can give me some wise words, uh, to, uh, to direct me? What would be, um, the best thing to do?
Rob West: Yeah, I appreciate that. Uh, you know, I I don't like rolling up debts, even though I agree with you, it does simplify things. I don't like rolling up debts and putting everything on the house, because, you know, right now, if something were to happen, um, you know, and and you lost your income, you had a a major event happen, you know, you you could be at risk of losing a car, but that's different than losing your home. And, you know, with the medical debt, uh, there really is no collateral there. And as soon as you roll everything onto the house, um, you know, number one, you're increasing the interest rate, so now you've got more going to interest by at least one percentage point per year. And then number two, you've got all the closing costs, which can run, you know, 3% to 5% of the mortgage value. How much do you owe on the mortgage today?
Chris: $280,000.
Rob West: Okay. Yeah, I mean, so if let's say we rolled all that together—I'm just going to make up a number—let's say it's $350,000. Um, you know, that could run you $15,000 just in closing costs, not to mention the added interest of an additional 1% over the life of the loan on $350,000, that that could end up being tens of thousands in additional interest. So I would, um, as much as I like the simplicity, and I know that's attractive to you, I'd leave that mortgage alone. Let's not refinance it until you can reduce the interest rate by at least one and a half percentage points, uh, you know, which would mean, uh, you know, you would want to get that down to 3.75, which that's not going to happen anytime soon. And then I'd just focus on let's get that medical bill paid off within a year, so dial back your spending, get on a budget, let's focus on the medical bill so that doesn't jump to the higher interest rate, and then we'll go after the cars next. But I would not refinance this as attractive as that might be. Natalie, thanks for your call today. We appreciate having the opportunity to weigh in. Folks, that's going to do it for us. So thankful for my team—they're amazing: Devin Patrick, Patty Pumphrey, I'm grateful for Taylor Standridge and everybody here at FaithFi that makes this possible. Come back and join us tomorrow. We'll see you then. Bye-bye.
Rob West: Some of the earliest financial supporters of Jesus' ministry were women. Hi, I'm Rob West. Luke 8 tells us that Mary Magdalene, Joanna, Susanna, and many others followed Jesus and supported his ministry from their own resources. Today, Sharon Epps joins us to explore what their example teaches us about grace, generosity, and using our influence for God's purposes. Then we have lots of great listener questions ahead that we won't be taking your live calls today because this program is pre-recorded. This is Faith and Finance on American Family Radio.
Rob West: Well, we always look forward to Sharon Epps stopping by. Sharon is president of Kingdom Advisors and one of the founders of Women Doing Well, a ministry that helps women grow as faithful, generous stewards. And with women poised to play such a significant role in the great wealth transfer we talk about so often, that work is especially timely. Sharon, welcome back.
Sharon Epps: Thank you, Rob. And as you know, this is one of my favorite topics.
Rob West: I sure do, and that's why I'm so excited to dive in. And I'm also thrilled about this article you have in the latest issue of Faithful Steward Magazine called "The Women Who Followed and Funded Jesus' Ministry". You highlight several women who not only followed Jesus but also supported his ministry financially. This is an important detail in God's Word we might often overlook. So, Sharon, who were these women, and what makes their story so significant?
Sharon Epps: Well, you'll find their story in Luke 8:1–3, and you mentioned several of them: Mary Magdalene, Joanna, Susanna, and many others. And I was so excited when I found this Scripture and realized the great role that they had to play in the fulfillment of the Gospel. These women actually received from Jesus, and that experience moved them to give. Some had been healed of evil spirits and infirmities, and Mary Magdalene in particular had had seven demons removed from her. In a culture where women rarely held financial agency, they used their own means to underwrite the ministry that changed the world. Their generosity flowed out of the healing and grace that they had already received.
Rob West: That's right. Their generosity began with what they had first received from Jesus. Sharon, how should that shape the way we understand and practice generosity today?
Sharon Epps: It's a really significant truth, because God always pours into us first. Think about it: our breath, our skills, our life, and our resources are all gifts from Him. And when we remember that everything we have is grace, generosity becomes the natural overflow. And just like those first-century women, modern daughters of the King can see their money, time, and talents as tools that God entrusted to them so His life can reach others.
Rob West: The Latin phrase incurvatus in se, meaning "curved in on oneself," describes our tendency to turn inward and make life about ourselves. Sharon, why is that such a danger, especially when it comes to money, and how can generosity help turn our hearts outward?
Sharon Epps: You know, I think our fast-paced world causes us to really turn to self-care. In fact, I ran across this made-up word: we become "exhaust-overwhel-mulated." And that means exhausted, overwhelmed, and overstimulated. And in that case, we just turn instinctively inward for relief. But yet, when we can breathe in God's care, we can resist the self-focus and actually flow outward, let His generosity flow through us, even when life feels heavy.
Rob West: Oh, that's so good. These women didn't simply give financially; they also used their influence to serve Jesus' ministry. What might that kind of faithful influence look like for women today?
Sharon Epps: Well, we can use our economic resources, our investing practices, and even our daily work to help promote human flourishing by supporting a local ministry, stewarding a business ethically, or investing in projects that restore what evil has taken. We can use our positions and relationships as part of God's work of restoration.
Rob West: We sure can. So for the woman who wants to live generously but already feels stretched thin, what's one simple step she can take today?
Sharon Epps: Start by remembering your identity: you are a daughter of the King. Pause long enough to breathe in His love and acknowledge that He is our ultimate provider. Then look for just one small, concrete way you can share. Maybe it's meeting a need that you just noticed today. And those small acts of generosity can become a way of life.
Rob West: Well, that's such great advice. Generosity begins with receiving God's grace and then faithfully turning what He's entrusted to us outward for the good of others. Sharon, thanks so much for stopping by.
Sharon Epps: My pleasure, Rob.
Rob West: That's Sharon Epps, president of Kingdom Advisors. This month, we're releasing our first-ever special edition of Faithful Steward Magazine focused on women and wealth. You can check it out today when you become a partner at faithfi.com/give. We'll be right back.
SEGMENT 2
Rob West: Great to have you with us today on Faith and Finance on American Family Radio. This is where each day we gather together to mind the Scriptures, to unpack the ideas and principles we see in God's Word related to money management as you live, give, owe, and grow. By the way, you know God's Word speaks to every one of those areas. You know, there's only four things you can do with money. Now, you might say, "Rob, how is that possible? It seems like there's an unlimited number of things I can do with my money." And yeah, that's true, but they fit into four categories: it's your lifestyle, the money you live on; the money you give; the money you owe, for debt and for taxes; and the money you grow, your savings, both short-term and long-term. And everything fits into one of those four, and God's Word speaks to each of those. You know, we should live appropriately; we need to pursue contentment and be on our guard in such a way that we don't allow our lifestyle, the pursuit of the things of this world, our material possessions to compete with our hearts for God. So when we live appropriately and with contentment, we're able to enjoy what God has entrusted to us and certainly provide for our families, which is very biblical, but doing it in such a way that it doesn't crowd out God's plans and will for our lives. We then give, and of course we want to give really first, because I think the primary purpose for what God has entrusted to us is for our giving. And then we owe, and we have to be careful here, especially when it comes to debt, because as I mentioned, this is one of the primary ways that we presume upon the future when we are encumbered by debt. And we need to be on our guard there, seeking to only use debt for productive uses. I would say that's where the economic return is greater than the economic cost—think appreciating assets like businesses and homes, not cars, certainly not consumer spending. So we avoid debt wherever possible, and we seek to get out of debt over time. And then we grow, and that's our savings. We want to save appropriately there, because the key for both live and grow is to start with the question: how much is enough? Now, you might be saying, "Well, it'd be great if I could get to the point where I had to ask how much is enough; I'm just trying to make ends meet," and I get that. And that's where a lot of folks find themselves, and that's why we need to be really careful about living on a spending plan and having our expenses dialed in around a plan that reflects our values and our priorities, of course meets our obligations. And in different seasons of life, that's going to be much more challenging than others; that's where we trust the Lord for His provision, and we accept what He's provided and live within that. Now, doesn't mean we don't try to improve that—maybe, you know, get a better-paying job, or maybe work with an, you know, seek out a second job, or try to reduce spending. I mean, we need to do our part, but at the end of the day, God is our provider. And then we need to ask the question: how much is enough for our savings, both for the short term—and that's where we recommend three to six months for your emergency funds—and then for the long term? What is our ultimate goal for accumulation? How much are we trying to save over the long haul, and what is that number? It's not about the mindless accumulation of wealth; there really should be a financial finish line. So as we go back to God's Word, we see the big ideas and themes around each of these areas, and then we want to live accordingly. Again: live, give, owe, and grow. Hopefully, that's helpful to you as you think about how you apply God's counsel and wisdom to the actual decisions and choices you're making today.
Rob West: Now, what about passing this on to the next generation? Because it's one thing for us to develop a biblical worldview around money management; it's an entirely different thing for us to pass that on to a child, a future adult that needs to not only have the financial literacy skills—avoiding the dangers of debt, working hard, living within their means on a spending plan, giving generously, leveraging compound savings and investing for the future—all of those skills that are necessary, but also a biblical worldview. So they're not discovering that for the first time as adults, but they're actually seeing that modeled and discussed at home prior to leaving: the fact that God owns it all, and that we're stewards or managers, and money's a tool, it's morally neutral, and it can be used for good or bad. Well, what does it look like to intentionally transfer these ideas, both the financial and the spiritual, to our kids? Remember Mark 8:36, which says, "For what does it profit a man to gain the whole world and forfeit his soul?" Well, let's talk about those different age ranges here for a moment, because I think this could be helpful. You know, as you think about ages 3 to 5, these are the early years, of course. We can already start to communicate God's ownership. You know, talking about the fact to these youngsters that God owns everything, and we're only stewards. Take them to the very first passage in the Bible, Genesis 1:1: "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth." So it's all His. Show them Psalm 24:1: "The earth is the Lord's, and everything in it, the world, and all who live within it." So we can begin to talk about the idea that God owns it all. And that work, buying things, requires money that is earned. And work is a good thing; it was not a punishment, it actually preceded the fall of man. And so we can talk about, even in these early years, why working hard is important, and that money is what we have to use to buy things. You know, Philippians 4:19: "And my God will supply every need of yours according to his riches in glory in Christ Jesus." So we need to talk about needs versus wants; that's of course going to become a bigger and bigger idea as they get older. We want them to start hearing about that early. What about the importance of gratitude? That can start in this age range of 3 to 5 as well: that everything is a gift from God, and we should be grateful for what He's given us. John 3:27: "A person cannot receive even one thing unless it's given him from heaven." And 1 Thessalonians 5:18: "In everything give thanks, for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you." So we can start even in ages 3 to 5 communicating these ideas: that there is a biblical model for how we should think about money, and there's some important skills we need to learn.
Rob West: Karen called—she couldn't hold—but she and her husband have an annuity, and they're wondering about charitable giving out of an annuity. And you know, I love this question, because when we've got an investment asset and we're wanting to think about how we can give generously, you know your balance sheet is your greatest potential for giving. With regard to an annuity, and that was I think the question Karen was hitting on, it does allow you through a charitable gift annuity to fund the work of a ministry and receive lifetime income while you're living. So here's the way it works: you would essentially make a gift into a charitable gift annuity at a ministry. In exchange for that, they give you an income stream for life based on your age and the amount of money that you put in, and then you get a partial tax deduction as the money goes in. Once you pass away, whatever is remaining after your death, that then is given to the ministry or the charity. And so it's really a great opportunity for folks in that retirement season of life looking for income, also wanting to bless a ministry that's on their heart. You can kind of do both at the same time and get some tax advantages. So when we think about giving and annuities, the charitable gift annuity is really that primary vehicle. The other approach, if you just have kind of a vanilla-flavored annuity, another type of annuity, really your best opportunity there is just to take a straight withdrawal from that annuity and then donate those proceeds to a charity. That would help offset any of the tax bite you get by taking the withdrawal. By the way, when it comes to giving off of your balance sheet, some of the more common opportunities that are overlooked are: number one, appreciated stock; another opportunity there would be gifts of a business interest; also gifts of a real estate interest. And a lot of those will use what's called a donor-advised fund, and our friends at the National Christian Foundation can help you out with that if you're interested in learning more.
Rob West: All right, a quick break, and then back with much more. Stick around; we'll be right back.
SEGMENT 3
Rob West: Great to have you with us today on Faith and Finance on American Family Radio. Our team is away today, so don't call in, but we lined up some great questions in advance, and we'll be going to those here in just a moment. Let me also remind you that the advice that I give each day on this program is general in nature. We offer principles and ideas that apply at a high level; they are not personalized. So that's why you should always seek professional financial advice. And if you'd like to find a professional who shares your values, we, of course, here at Faith and Finance recommend the Certified Kingdom Advisor designation. These are men and women who've met high standards, and they've been trained to bring a biblical worldview of financial decision-making. You can find one at faithfi.com. Let's go to Huntington, Indiana. Wesley, go ahead.
Wesley: Uh, yes. We have this month a decision on an annuity with IRA pre-tax, and we've had to keep it in for 10 years in order to get the promised—I think it was 15% at first. When I looked at it recently for their protected value, they call it, it was a little more. But in order to get that, we have to take it out in installments, I think of 5%. Over the years, it's kind of kept up, but sometimes it's no interest and it fluctuates a lot. So it's guaranteed not to lose, but not to gain over 15.
Rob West: Yeah.
Wesley: I'm wondering if there are better ways to invest that aren't—we're almost 80, in our 80s now, so we don't want to have risky investment, but if we could invest in kingdom-valued items too, it would be more interesting to us.
Rob West: Yeah, very good. So what you're describing here is not an increase in the actual account value. Instead, it's what you called, and what they call, a protected value. So it's an income base or a benefit base, and that's used only to calculate guaranteed lifetime or installment income. So here's how it works: You have the actual account value, which is the cash value; that's the amount that you actually own and could withdraw or transfer. Then you have the protected value, or the income base. That's a higher phantom value—doesn't really exist as cash—it exists only to calculate the guaranteed withdrawals. So it's not a lump sum that you can cash out; it's just this higher amount that they use to determine the income base. And so your account value, for example, might be 200,000; your protected value might be 250,000, 25% higher. And then if the contract says you can withdraw 5% annually from the protected value, then in my example, you'd get 5% of 250,000—so 12,500 a year—instead of 5% of the 200,000 (the cash value), which would be 10. And then the extra 2,500 a year comes from the insurance company's guarantee. But you can't take that as a lump sum. So if you take the lump sum payout or surrender the contract, then you would receive only the actual account value. In terms of what else you might do, you know, if you have a desire for safety and faith-aligned investments, you know, I would say you want to just look at whether, you know, from a financial planning standpoint, you want to give up that guaranteed income benefit. You certainly want to understand what it's worth fully before you make that decision. And if the protected value is truly somewhere between a 15 and 30% enhancement, by taking the 5% installments, you know, that could be difficult to replicate elsewhere with comparable safety. That said, if you decide to move the money after evaluating the contract, then you could look at a faith-based fixed income portfolio with high-quality bonds; you could look at a balanced portfolio that has some stocks in it. You know, you could use one of the Certified Kingdom Advisors that uses the faith-based asset managers like Timothy, or Guidestone, or Eventide, or OneAscent. But I would, you know, just make sure you've thought through what your needs are and what you're giving up before you move it out of there, and just make sure that, you know, it is truly going to meet your income needs long term. Do you have an advisor, Wesley, who could walk through all of this with you and do some planning?
Wesley: Uh, yeah. I asked the person who advised us in getting into the annuity if he was an advisor beyond the annuity, and he didn't answer, so I assume he's not.
Rob West: Okay. Yeah, so what you might want to do is go to our website—if you're comfortable with that—findacka.com, and see if you can find a Certified Kingdom Advisor in the area. Maybe you interview two or three and pick the one that you think is the best fit. But what you'd be looking for is two things: One is just to help you evaluate what's being offered to you through the existing annuity contract and how that fits into your overall financial plan and goals. And then secondly, what alternative investment strategy that perhaps brings a faith-based element into it, but still meets your risk tolerance, goals, and objectives, and supports your income needs long term. And then pray through that and decide which one is the best fit.
Wesley: And do you have any idea how the advice is paid for to get an advisor?
Rob West: Uh, yeah, typically—I mean, unless you just engage someone directly for just financial planning, that might be on an engagement basis or an hourly basis—typically somebody who's going to offer financial planning and the investment management is usually a percentage of assets under management. And it's probably somewhere from just under 1% a year to as much as maybe 1 and a half percent a year of the total account value that's being managed.
Wesley: Okay, thank you for your help.
Rob West: Okay, Wesley, God bless you, my friend. Thanks for being on the program. Well, folks, we're going to take a quick break. When we come back, we've got a lot of great questions here. We're going to head out to Missouri and talk to Mary; we'll head to Florida and talk to Natalie, and then back to Illinois, Daniel's waiting with his question as well. Hey, our new field guide is out, How Much Is Enough? It'll help you work through setting a financial finish line for your lifestyle and what we call a lifetime finish line for your balance sheet. Could be a game changer as you understand how much is enough, and then possibly accelerate your giving. Check it out today at faithfi.com/shop. That's faithfi.com/shop. All right, a quick break and back with much more. Don't go anywhere; we're just getting started.
SEGMENT 4
Rob West: Well, it's great to have you with us today on Faith and Finance. By the way, if you've not checked out our website recently, we'd love for you to do that. The wealth of content, articles, podcasts, and videos there to help you be a wise and faithful steward of God's money is incredible. You'll find it all at faithfi.com. You can visit that on your smartphone or on your desktop—again, faithfi.com. Just click the "Content" button. Also, while you're there, check out the FaithFi app that can help you manage God's money and access all of this great content on the go. Just click the "App" tab. Let's go out to Missouri. Mary, thanks for calling. How can I help?
Mary: Hi, how are you today, Rob? Thanks for taking my call, and thank you for all you do. One of my siblings passed—my sister passed away four years ago, left everything to her daughter under a TOD account except for one bank account. The bank had originally said they were going to send it to unclaimed property after three years. We went online and found out that it's probably—it may be five years. But we went back up there recently, and now the bank is saying it's going to go to probate and not unclaimed property, when there is nothing else in probate. Her daughter—my niece—is trying to figure out what can we do. We took an affidavit of death and the death certificate that was recommended for us to do by an attorney to the bank, and they still wouldn't release the funds.
Rob West: Yeah. Well, I'm sorry about that. You know, that can be frustrating as you're trying to get this all closed down, and you've got this just one account remaining. And I can certainly understand that you'd want to get it taken care of. You know, essentially, basically, if you've—well, I think the first thing I would do is ask the bank why the affidavit was rejected. Is it because the account exceeds the small estate limit? Is it because the affidavit wasn't the correct one? Or are they requiring probate for some other reason? Did they say?
Mary: They said that they would not accept that because the bank account was in my sister's name only. And this bank is saying that because it's account—and we know that it's less than $30,000–$40,000. This was a bank account that she used to pay her monthly bills out of. It's probably not that much in there. But the bank is still taking a monthly fee every month for non-activity.
Rob West: Yeah. Well, I certainly understand that, and yeah, that's frustrating as well. Yeah, essentially, it sounds like, you know, the bank's position is probably that, unless the estate qualifies for a small estate procedure under the state's law, you know, that's maybe why they're saying it needs to go through the estate process—the probate process. I mean, a next step would be you could ask to speak to the bank's estate department, not just the local branch. And I would ask them, "Why doesn't the affidavit qualify? What legal document do you need to receive the funds?" If they just simply insist that probate is required, you could ask specifically whether it qualifies for a small estate affidavit or what's called a summary probate in that state, because many states have a simplified process, but the dollar limit varies. So you would just need to see, you know, if you're under that; and if you are, that may expedite things. If it has $30,000 to $40,000, that may exceed the small estate affidavit limit, and so they may legitimately be requiring probate, and that may be exactly right, just depending on the rules of your state.
Mary: Well, the last statement that my niece received at the home, probably a couple of years ago, she said it was probably less than $10,000 in there. So it's not like it's a whole lot of money. You said small estate—we should ask for small estate what?
Rob West: Yeah, so you'd want to ask them specifically if it qualifies for the small estate affidavit or what's called a summary probate. Because if it's truly under $10,000, there's probably a simplified procedure available depending on the state. In some states, the bank's specific affidavit can be used to collect a deceased person's bank account without opening full probate. But each state has a different threshold or requirement, and that's why I think going to the bank's estate department in writing and asking why it was rejected, and whether it can be released on a more simplified basis, I think, you know, would be important, because they'll know exactly what the thresholds are and whether this could be expedited in a way that doesn't require full probate.
Mary: Okay, so the estate department at the bank. Okay. In writing. Thank you so much. Thank you.
Rob West: All right, Mary. All the best to you. Call anytime. Let's go down to Florida. Natalie, how can I help?
Natalie: Good afternoon, Rob. My husband just passed on July 11th, and I received our insurance money last week. And I had asked my husband, "What would you like me to do? We still have a mortgage. Should I take that money and dump it to help pay off the mortgage?" And he said, "No," because we had a lot of home repairs. Now our local church is helping us with all those expenses. I want to be wise in this money, and I want to keep at least half for emergency funds, and the rest of the half—which is $25,000—invest it. I don't know, the money market savings account will, as you know, give me next to nothing. So I want to be wise about that.
Rob West: Yeah. Well, I'm so sorry to hear about your husband's passing, Natalie.
Natalie: Thank you. Thank you.
Rob West: I appreciate your approach here and just kind of how you're thinking through this. And you want to be sure not to make any major decisions, you know, for at least six months; but I think really considering what to do with these funds, and I love that you even talked to your husband about that before he passed. And what a blessing that your church is willing to step in and help with some of these repairs. Yeah, I love the idea of you building the emergency fund first; and if your desire is to invest the remainder for your long-term needs, I like that a lot. I agree—I wouldn't put that in a money market. I would probably, you know, get that invested in a properly diversified stock and bond portfolio. Given the amount of money, it's probably going to be, you know, something like a mutual fund, or exchange-traded fund, or a robo-advisor. Are you thinking at least a 10-year time horizon on this?
Natalie: Oh, yeah! He was 11 years older. So I'm not even thinking about retirement right now. I work full time, and I just came off completing my Christian credit counseling, praise God! We have no debt!
Rob West: Oh, wow! That's amazing!
Natalie: Except my used car payment now, and I try to pay that very consistently. I'm pretty diligent about how I pay bills, thank God. The mortgage and that, I can afford. I can afford right now, yeah.
Rob West: And what are your income sources?
Natalie: It's just my payroll that comes in every two weeks. We had a very low mortgage at a 3.87% interest rate, and right now I'm staying still. I don't know what the Lord wants me to do with the house; and like you said, I'm thinking six months to a year. I don't know where He plans to plant me or am I going to stay where I'm at. So I want to be wise, and if He says, "Well, it's time to move," well, then I'll have moving expenses together and all of that.
Rob West: Yeah, very good. All right, well, let's do this: I've got a couple of additional questions, and then I think we can map out a plan going forward. Stay on the line. I've got to hit this break, but you and I will pick that up right on the other side. And then we'll head to Illinois. Daniel wants to talk about recommendations and guidelines to buy a home based on the income that he has. We'd love to chat about that. And then Chris is asking about refinancing her mortgage. Stick around, much more to come.
SEGMENT 5
Rob West: Great to have you with us today on Faith and Finance here on American Family Radio. I'm Rob West. Before the break, we were talking to Natalie, and unfortunately, her husband just recently passed away after battling sickness for more than a year. And she's just wondering the path forward, specifically for some life insurance they received. She's going to use half of it, $25,000, to shore up their emergency fund, and she wanted to invest the other half. She's debt-free—she used Christian Credit Counselors, so that's great to get out of credit card debt. Still a home mortgage of $80,000, car debt of $23,000. You know, one option, Natalie, would be to pay off that car loan. Um, you know, if that if that's an interest rate of 7% or higher, you'd get a guaranteed return on that. And then you could take the difference of what you were sending to the car payment and then have your employer put that into your retirement plan on a monthly basis equal to that payment that you no longer have. And then you'd be have you'd have that go in tax-deferred, so you'd get a deduction on that. And then you could manage it all through your 403(b) rather than trying to invest that on a taxable basis. And then you'd be down to just your home, and you'd get money going back into that 403(b), which I know you were you stopped about a year ago, but give me your thoughts on that.
Natalie: Wow, I never I that never occurred to me. That that really standard—yeah, and it would just lose all ends. I would just have the mortgage, wouldn't be a problem. That was my biggest concern, but um I'm in a tax bracket that, you know, that wouldn't be a financial hardship. Not at all.
Rob West: Yeah. Yeah, I think that would be good. I'd love for you to get money going into that 403(b), because as it goes in, you're getting the tax deduction, and then it grows tax-deferred. Whereas if we were to take this $25,000 that's left over after you shore up your emergency fund and invest it in a taxable account, now all of a sudden every time you have a gain in the account, you're having to pay capital gains tax. So I think I'd kind of like you to have the peace of mind of knowing I only have one debt. The goal is to pay that off before you eventually retire, so you're completely debt-free. And now you take, you know, at the very least, maybe a little bit more, but at the very least the same amount you were sending to the car and have your HR department, you know, take that out of each check and put it into your 403(b). Um, in terms of Social Security, as you pointed out while we talked off the break, at 59 you're not eligible yet for the the survivor's benefit unless you're disabled, which you're not. Um, in most cases, the survivor's benefit, um, you know, can begin at age 60, but it would be reduced. So you want, just given that you're planning to work as long as you can, you want to wait until your full retirement age, which would be 67, for your survivor's benefits, and you could get 100% of what your husband was entitled to, assuming that's higher than your own benefit. Uh, yours may be higher, and if it is, great. But if his is, you would have the option to do that. Uh, now one planning opportunity is that survivor's benefits and retirement benefits have separate claiming rules. So you may be able to take, uh, you know, depending on which is higher, uh, you could take your own retirement benefit first, assuming his is higher, and then switch to his later at full retirement age, and then, you know, you'd get the benefit of yours now, and you wouldn't have any reduction on his. Um, or if his if yours is higher, you could take the reduced survivor benefit at age 60 and then switch to your own benefit later. Um, so you do have that option that you may want to look at.
Natalie: Okay. Um, can I ask you one question I forgot to mention? He's a veteran. Would that play into now I'm going through the paperwork for that? It's enormous, very overwhelming, but I am entitled to something monthly. Um, it's not going to be much because it's income-based on my salary and it's almost poverty line kind of what they mentioned.
Rob West: Got it, yes. Yeah, I mean that the being a veteran could make a big difference here. Um, in terms of the compensation, you know, there could be a tax-free monthly benefit for a surviving spouse. Uh, if he Did he pass from a service-connected condition?
Natalie: Oh, no, he had liver cancer. No.
Rob West: Okay. All right. Um, yeah, I mean really, you may want to look into that. Um, so he wasn't receiving any VA compensation of any kind.
Natalie: Oh, he was not. He was not eligible.
Rob West: Okay, so then the only other thing would be, and maybe this is what you're referring to, the Survivor's Pension, which is a needs-based monthly benefit available to a surviving spouse of veterans who meet an income and net worth limit.
Natalie: Right, right. And I won't meet that.
Rob West: Oh, okay, yeah, yeah. So then there's probably not anything there. I mean, it's worth looking into, but probably not a whole lot there. So...
Natalie: Right, right.
Rob West: Well, Natalie, you're doing a great job managing all this. I know it's a lot. I want to send you a book called Wise Women Managing Money that was written for widows in a situation just like yours. I think it'll be an encouragement to you, and if I can help further along the way, please don't hesitate to reach out. Thanks for your call today. Let's go to Illinois. Hi Daniel, go ahead.
Daniel: Hey, how's it going?
Rob West: Good, thanks for your call.
Daniel: Uh, my question is I'm interested in purchasing a home. I'm currently working two jobs to save up for a home, and my question would be if my income is approximately $20,000 to $25,000 per year, um, what's the mortgage rate that I need to or should uh should subscribe to and to so I can like what do you recommend for someone who wants to buy a house for the first time? Like what's the what's the most appropriate rate to to sign with?
Rob West: Yes, it's a it's a great question, and you know, it's it's challenging right now just because home affordability is really difficult. We've got interest rates high for the for the mortgage, and we've got home prices high as well. Uh, so the $25,000, that's from both jobs that you're working combined?
Daniel: Uh, yeah. Yeah, and I even do side jobs like carpentry and construction side jobs.
Rob West: Okay. But that's annual, so you're bringing in about $2,000 a month?
Daniel: Uh, yeah. Yeah, this is about $1,800–$2,000.
Rob West: Yeah, okay. Yeah, I mean, so really what you want to do is look at your net pay. So let's say your after-tax pay was $2,000. I mean, the challenge is I would really love for you to not have more than 30% going to your principal, interest, taxes, and insurance. So that's that's $600 a month, which is going to be really challenging, um, just depending on what you're looking to buy. So I think I think your focus right now should just be let's not get overextended by trying to buy a home too quickly. Let's just focus on renting for now. Let's save where possible, starting with that emergency fund. Make sure you've you're not carrying any high-interest debt. And then just start saving as much as you can for that down payment with a goal of 20% down of whatever that purchase price is and a mortgage payment, including taxes and insurance, that's no more than 30% of your take-home pay. And that gives you a rough guideline, so you could start looking around to see what's out there and figuring out, okay, if I you know, if let's say by waiting, you know, you're able to get that down payment up and maybe your income, you know, grows to where now you're making $30,000 or $40,000, well, you know, now all of a sudden you can do a $1,000 a month payment instead of $600. But I think for the time being, I would just really focus on building up that emergency fund of three to six months expenses, getting something going into a retirement account on a modest basis, and then just trying to plow as much as you can into that down payment fund and then work on letting your income grow over time and and being patient on that home purchase.
Daniel: All right, yeah, that hits the nail on the head. Thank you.
Rob West: All right, you're welcome. All the best to you, my friend. Thanks for calling. Hey, stay on the line. I'm going to send you Ron Blue's book Master Your Money. It's a classic. I read it coming out of college, and it was a game changer for me. It'll kind of give you a good overview of just all the key ideas on how you need to think about your financial life, both spiritually from a biblical perspective, but also practically in terms of investments, savings, debt, budgets, and all the things you need to know. It's called Master Your Money by Ron Blue, and we'll send it to you as our gift, Daniel, so hang on the line. Uh, let's finish today in Chicago. Chris, go ahead.
Chris: Hi, I have a mortgage for at about a 5.25 interest rate, and I have two car payments at a higher interest rate, and, um, also, um, a medical bill, uh, through CareCredit, um, that I would need to pay in a year, or it would be at a high interest rate, too. I have an offer from someone—I have a FHA loan right now. I have an offer from one of the lending companies to, uh, consolidate all of this and refinance the mortgage. Uh, it would be at a 6.25, uh, but at the same time, there would just be one bill. I'm wondering, um, if you can give me some wise words, uh, to, uh, to direct me? What would be, um, the best thing to do?
Rob West: Yeah, I appreciate that. Uh, you know, I I don't like rolling up debts, even though I agree with you, it does simplify things. I don't like rolling up debts and putting everything on the house, because, you know, right now, if something were to happen, um, you know, and and you lost your income, you had a a major event happen, you know, you you could be at risk of losing a car, but that's different than losing your home. And, you know, with the medical debt, uh, there really is no collateral there. And as soon as you roll everything onto the house, um, you know, number one, you're increasing the interest rate, so now you've got more going to interest by at least one percentage point per year. And then number two, you've got all the closing costs, which can run, you know, 3% to 5% of the mortgage value. How much do you owe on the mortgage today?
Chris: $280,000.
Rob West: Okay. Yeah, I mean, so if let's say we rolled all that together—I'm just going to make up a number—let's say it's $350,000. Um, you know, that could run you $15,000 just in closing costs, not to mention the added interest of an additional 1% over the life of the loan on $350,000, that that could end up being tens of thousands in additional interest. So I would, um, as much as I like the simplicity, and I know that's attractive to you, I'd leave that mortgage alone. Let's not refinance it until you can reduce the interest rate by at least one and a half percentage points, uh, you know, which would mean, uh, you know, you would want to get that down to 3.75, which that's not going to happen anytime soon. And then I'd just focus on let's get that medical bill paid off within a year, so dial back your spending, get on a budget, let's focus on the medical bill so that doesn't jump to the higher interest rate, and then we'll go after the cars next. But I would not refinance this as attractive as that might be. Natalie, thanks for your call today. We appreciate having the opportunity to weigh in. Folks, that's going to do it for us. So thankful for my team—they're amazing: Devin Patrick, Patty Pumphrey, I'm grateful for Taylor Standridge and everybody here at FaithFi that makes this possible. Come back and join us tomorrow. We'll see you then. Bye-bye.
Some of the earliest financial supporters of Jesus’ ministry were women. Luke 8 tells us that Mary Magdalene, Joanna, Susanna, and many others followed Jesus and supported His ministry from their own resources. On this Faith & Finance on AFR, Sharon Epps joins Rop West to explore what their example teaches us about grace, generosity, and using our influence for God’s purposes. Then it’s on to calls.
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