Rob West Faithful stewardship begins long before we decide how much to give. Hi, I'm Rob West. John Wesley famously taught Christians to make all they can, save all they can, and give all they can. But those aren't separate ideas. How we make money matters just as much as what we do with it. Today Robin John joins us to explore how those principles can shape the way we earn, invest, and give. And then it's on to your phone calls at 800-525-7000. This is Faith and Finance on American Family Radio, biblical wisdom for your financial decisions.
What a treat to have my friend Robin John back on the program. He's co-founder and CEO of Eventide Investments, a valued underwriter of Faith and Finance. Founded in 2008, Eventide is a faith-based investment firm that seeks to honor God by investing in a way that makes the world rejoice. Robin is also the author of The Good Investor: How Your Work Can Confront Injustice, Love Your Neighbor, and Bring Healing to the World. Robin, great to have you back.
Robin John It's so wonderful to be with you, Rob.
Rob West Robin, you recently gave a talk inspired by John Wesley's famous sermon, "The Use of Money," which he delivered nearly 300 years ago. But I want you to walk us through Wesley's framework and why his wisdom remains so relevant right now.
Robin John Yeah, John Wesley is an amazing teacher of the word. And John Wesley is known for building frameworks to help guide the Christian life. And John Wesley gave us a framework for stewardship that I believe is still the framework for us today. John Wesley said, "Make all you can, save all you can, give all you can". But, you know, I think when most people hear those statements, they misunderstand what that actually—what John Wesley was intending to say. He wasn't saying, "Make all you can, by any means possible." He was not saying, "Save and hoard wealth for yourself, and then give money away." He actually said, "Make all you can without hurting yourself or your neighbor in body or in soul, save all you can, stop wasting money, and then give all you can." It's a holistic framework where the making, the saving, and the giving all tells the same story.
Rob West I love how you unpack that, and you're right, it's a perhaps much fuller as we understand what he intended in that famous statement. Now, he begins with "make all you can," which seems to affirm the value of business and wealth creation, which I know is near and dear to your heart. But he also places some important boundaries around how we earn money, doesn't he?
Robin John Yes, you know, ultimately for John Wesley, God owns it all. You know, that's something that I hear from you all the time, Rob. I hear this from Ron Blue all the time: God owns it all. John Wesley preached in a sermon that God simply lends wealth to us as stewards, reserving the property to himself. So the entire framework for stewardship must be under their understanding that God owns it all. So how we make money should be honoring to God. We should make money in ways that honor God, that love our neighbor, that don't cause harm to our neighbor, in body or in soul. And Wesley was very—like, very pointed about this, actually. He went through each of those components: do not hurt yourself in your body, do not hurt yourself in your soul, do not hurt your neighbor in his body, do not hurt your neighbor in his soul. And then he even pointedly spoke to industries of his day that he believed was creating exploitation and addiction. One of the industries that he really spoke about in his sermon is the alcohol industry. And, and then he said basically, you Christians who are so focused on building generational wealth, what are you actually leaving to your generation? Is it a legacy of faithfulness or is it blood-stained walls and houses that you've built through ill-gotten gain that you're just passing on to your next generation?
Rob West Yeah, and and so many Christians, Robin, are understanding perhaps in a new way that they've been investing this way all along, and they just didn't realize it, isn't that true?
Robin John Yeah, I think most of us who are really thinking about stewardship, we don't think in terms of what that investment is doing to the world. I think we are so focused on the returns, and I think that's the only way we've ever been taught. But our investment dollars just have an impact on the broader world.
Rob West There's no doubt about it. Faithful stewardship isn't about how much we give away, it's about honoring God with every dollar we earn, invest, spend, and give. We'll talk more with Robin John about this famous quote from John Wesley right after this. Stick around.
SEGMENT 2
Rob West John Wesley famously taught Christians to make all they can, save all they can, and give all they can, but those aren't separate ideas. We're talking about how we make money and why that matters today with Robin John. Robin is the author of the book The Good Investor: How Your Work Can Confront Injustice, Love Your Neighbor, and Bring Healing to the World. If you're interested in exploring these ideas today, The Good Investor would be a great place to start. Robin is also co-founder and CEO of Eventide Investments, investments that make the world rejoice. Eventide is a valued underwriter of this program. Robin, I love what we're talking about here today, and I know this has a deeply personal connection to your own family's story long before you founded Eventide. Would you tell us for a moment about your grandfather and a decision he made while your family was living in poverty in India?
Robin John Yes. So, I was 8 when I moved to the US, and during the first eight years of my life, I lived with my grandparents, slept in the same bed with my grandfather. Late nights, you know, the electricity would go out, there was no running water, no bathroom in the house. Uh, but we were not poor when I was growing up, but I would hear stories of poverty in the family from before I was born. My grandfather was a pastor, church planter. He had eight kids. And often, late nights, he would go to bed crying at night because he couldn't feed his kids. His oldest son, who is 20 years older than my dad, ended up getting a job and started sending money back to the family. But one day, my oldest uncle wrote a letter to my grandfather saying that he was being forced to make false expense reports in order to make dishonest gain from the government, and my grandfather wrote back to him and said, "We cannot receive dishonest gain, please come back home." So for my grandfather, even poverty, even suffering and hunger in the family, was preferred in order to honor God than what he considered to be ill-gotten or dishonest gain. And so, at the same time, he was also a very generous person, and so I've really been inspired and I would say influenced by his testimony, his legacy of faithfulness. Um, the decisions he made financially didn't make any sense, but I would say spiritually they made perfect sense, and it left a lasting legacy in our family.
Rob West Wow, what an incredible story, and I know that shaped, Robin, your approach to investing at Eventide. Uh, talk about how your upbringing and what you just described influenced the way you think about the purpose of investing.
Robin John Yeah. So, you know, the Bible says "better is a little bit with righteousness than great revenues with injustice" in Proverbs 16:8. At the same time, I do believe that as Christians that are seeking to honor God in our wealth creation, in in our investing, that we should be able to outperform the marketplace, because biblical principles are good for this life, it's not just for the next life. So, uh, when I was 27, myself and Finny and others were able to start Eventide, and we had to wrestle with some of the same questions that my grandfather was wrestling with decades earlier. The question was, how should we profit? What types of profits are honoring to God? And, you know, chapters like Proverbs 1, verses 10 to 19, really compelled us to try to figure out what are the types of profits we do not want to participate in: profits from abortion and pornography, tobacco, gambling. We made a whole list of things, and we instead said, "You know what, the Bible says hate what is evil, cling to what is good, avoid ill-gotten gain, embrace companies whose products and whose practices are good for the world, and engage these companies to be even better." So, uh, you know, I think my grandfather's legacy lives on in how we think about profit even today, uh, at Eventide.
Rob West Yes, and if we think about the way God designed wealth creation and productivity and human flourishing, He's a creator, He creates out of nothing, we're co-creators, we take His creation and we put it to work, and that happens through productive enterprise and business, which is intended to be good and serve mankind, and yet so often it's destructive, and then we can turn around and invest in these same companies, and that's what you're seeking to avoid among other things, right?
Robin John That is right. You know, Genesis 1:26, we see that we are given dominion, we are created in the image of God who calls good his work, so that we could continue that work. So the Bible is very clear, we are created in His image so that we could continue that work. Uh, Ephesians 2:10, Paul says, "We are God's workmanship created in Christ Jesus to do good works." Uh, I believe it's Matthew 5:16, Jesus said that the world should see our good works and glorify our Father in heaven. Our God calls His work good, and we are commanded to continue that work. Someday when we stand before God, we hope to hear, "Well done, good and faithful servant." So, I really hope that all of us in our work could be doing the type of work that God would look at and say, "Good."
Rob West Yeah, that's a powerful idea. Wesley eventually brings us, Robin, to his third principle, "give all you can." How does that connect to his earlier instruction to "make all you can"?
Robin John Yeah, for John Wesley, the giving and the making needed to be a framework that had integrity. It needed to tell the same story. Uh, John Wesley would say things like, "We are not to do evil so that good may come." Uh, so John Wesley wanted to be clear that our making and our giving should both be honoring to God, the ends just not justify the means. So, John Wesley said, "Give all you can, but give it from profits that you have made in ways that also honor God." There is a verse in the New Testament, Paul said, "Let him who is stealing, steal no more, let him who is engaged in dishonest gain, engage in dishonest gain no more, and let him do good work, so that he may be generous." So there is a connection between doing good work, making good money in ways that honor God, and then being generous. God is not looking for generosity from ill-gotten gain. God says that many times in the Bible: Deuteronomy 23:18, "Do not bring the earnings of a prostitute, male or female prostitute into the temple to pay any vow, for this is an abomination to the Lord your God." So John Wesley is very clear that we must give all we can once we have made money in ways that honor God.
Rob West Yeah, and I know you brought that idea of making money in ways that honor God into Eventide. You also brought the idea of generosity as a priority into Eventide as well, didn't you?
Robin John Yes, you know, when we started Eventide, we wrote into the operating agreement that 65% of profits would go directly to charity or to donor-advised funds. Uh, so our CFO automatically puts that into donor-advised funds, and hopefully the founders would be even much more generous than that through the 35% that comes into our bank accounts after paying taxes. But, in a way it was I think a very smart, healthy thing to do, uh, was to write that into the operating agreement, because I think what happens for many of us is that once we start making wealth, it becomes harder for us to let go. So making some of those decisions even before the wealth is created really helps us to see the fact that God in fact does own it all. God owns all of Eventide.
Rob West Wow. Folks, maybe after today's broadcast, we can stop asking simply "how much should I give" and start asking "how can every dollar God entrusts to me accomplish the greatest possible good for His kingdom." Robin, thanks for your time.
Robin John Thank you so much, Rob. Thanks for the wonderful work that you do.
Rob West I'm grateful for our partnership. That's Robin John, co-founder and CEO of Eventide Investments. Learn more at faithfi.com/eventide. That's faithfi.com/eventide. We'll be right back.
SEGMENT 3
Rob West What a treat, Hab Robin John here today. Robin is a good friend and so delighted to be with you and great to have him here today as we think about how we align our values with our investments and we do that as we line up what's important to us as Christ followers with our portfolio. And the good news is we have the opportunity to do that now in a way that we never could before. It simply looks like evaluating the companies we're invested in and kicking out those companies that are misaligned with our values, bringing in those companies that are God honoring, loving their stakeholders, their neighbors, their suppliers, their customers, their employees, and engaging. Something American Family Association has been doing with incredible faithfulness over the last couple of years in partnership with Jerry Boyer, his team at Boyer Research, engaging with the companies that they are part owners of to file shareholder proposals, to talk to leadership not just to make a point, but to affect change over time in favor of godly values. And this is what we call faith-based investing. Evan Tide, an underwriter of the program, a real leader in this space, and I love what Robin was talking about today as we think about good work, including not only in our giving, but in our investments. And I think increasingly God's people are stopping to say, maybe I need to look at my portfolio because there is an opportunity now with all of your investments to line them up with your values. And there's some incredible asset managers that are creating world-class investment solutions that match up on cost and performance, but also really are thoughtfully created to align with the values of Christ followers. So, we're grateful for Robin anytime he stops by and what a delightful conversation today.
All right, we want to turn the corner and take your questions today on anything financial, 800-525-7000. That's 800-525-7000. The lines are open, you can call right now. We will dive into those questions here in just a moment. So, if you've got something related to your giving, your saving, your spending, we would love to be able to tackle it with you, help you line up the decisions you're making with your values as a Christ follower. Again, that number with lines open and the team standing by: 800-525-7000. We will dive in here in just a moment. In the news today, if you have a flexible spending account, what's otherwise known as an FSA through your employer, now is a good time to check your balances. You could have money you're about to lose. According to the Employee Benefit Research Institute, roughly 4 in 10, 40% of FSA participants forfeited unused funds in 2024, losing an average of $404. FSAs allow you to set aside pre-tax dollars for eligible healthcare expenses, reducing your taxable income. But unlike health savings accounts, and this is a key idea, unused FSA funds don't necessarily roll over from year to year. Some employers allow you to carry over a portion of your balance or provide a grace period to spend it. Others follow a strict "use it or lose it" policy. The good news: you may have more eligible expenses than you realize, including prescriptions, dental and vision care, sunscreen, first aid supplies. If you're unsure what qualifies, just head over to fsastore.com (fsastore.com) to explore eligible products. Before the year ends, check your balance, review your employer's deadlines, and then consider any upcoming healthcare needs, again, maybe some things you hadn't considered previously. And then as you prepare for 2027, remember that the FSA contribution limit increases to $3,500. The goal isn't simply to save on taxes, but really to plan wisely and make the most of what God has entrusted to you. So, just a quick reminder as we head toward year-end, it seems like there's a bunch of those [laughter]. We're always having to think about as 12/31 approaches quickly.
All right, let's dive into your questions today. Again, lines are open: 800-525-7000. Let's go to Texas. Mark, you'll be first up, sir. Go ahead.
Mark Yes, sir. Mark, I have a question on revocable trusts. If am I doing the right thing, I have quite a bit of assets and I have land and I have a house, and we were just thinking of doing a revocable living trust to leave to our kids as they can as they get older and they can draw some money off of that, receive some money off of that. Am I doing the right thing?
Rob West Yeah, yeah, great question. And you know, I think if you have significant assets, land, and a home, a revocable living trust, Mark, could be a very smart estate planning decision. In fact, the more property you own, especially real estate, the more valuable a trust can be. A will tells the court where your assets should go. A properly funded living trust, a revocable trust, can help your family transfer those assets without going through probate. So, what are the differences? Well, a will is a little less expensive, a trust can be a little more expensive. A will goes through probate, a trust does not. A will is a part of the public record, a trust is private. Control, you retain control while you're alive with a will, and the same is true for a revocable trust because you can change it at any time. In terms of incapacity, if you ever or your wife is ever incapacitated, the will does not cover that. It's going to require separate planning, whereas any assets titled in the name of the living trust would allow that successor trustee that's named to step in and manage trust assets, again, prior to your passing, but if you're incapacitated and unable to do so. There's no automatic tax savings with either of them, but ultimately it's just creating the more efficient transfer. Now, the other benefit which may get to one of the points you made of the living trust is that if you wanted to, you know, hold a piece of property as a part of your estate or you wanted to keep it in the trust beyond your life, beyond you and your wife's life, and keep it in the family and either distribute income from it or you wanted to keep reserves there so they could keep the house and the money would be there to maintain it, that could all be done in a trust as well that would not be possible in a will. So, those are basically the main features. I want to see if you have any follow-up questions on any of that and address any concerns you have. I'm up against a break, Mark, so let's do this: We'll take that break. I'll come right back to you and we'll chat just a bit more. Linda in North Carolina coming your way as well. We'll be right back.
SEGMENT 4
Rob West Great to have you with us today on Faith and Finance here on American Family Radio. I'm Rob West. We're taking your questions today, 800-525-7000. Anything financial, call right now. Before the break, we were talking to Mark in Texas. He's 70, he's retired. He and his wife are considering a trust. They've got some substantial assets: land, a home, and just wondering if a trust would make sense. Mark, I kind of ran through the compare-and-contrast on the will versus the trust, but give me any questions or thoughts you have.
Mark Yes, on that trust, my understanding is that if I would write as to how the money's would is to be shared with my kids, they would do exactly what what I would put in that trust, or is that right?
Rob West Yes. Like I would say, "I put that totals"—say, "I put that totals" will get 5% per year. I'm sorry, 4% per year, and which should be distributed as follows: first, you know, you give your 10% to church, then you would pay the taxes on the ranch, pay the taxes on the house, and then and then what's left, you split it with the two kids. Is is that about right?
Yeah. So essentially, that would be a one-time thing, or would you want that to the assets to stay there and for that to be ongoing?
Mark It would be to be ongoing for the rest as long as the trust is alive or can can, you know, will it go?
Rob West Yeah. So run through that. What do you the high-level overview of the instructions?
Mark It would be like—I put the totals every—say, every December, you go in there and get your totals of that of that of that fund, and uh, and and you get 4% off of that, and that is what's going to be distributed. First goes uh 10% to church, and then what's on that total, you you pay your taxes in the house, pay taxes on on the ranch, and what's left, it's to be distributed between the two kids as long as they're over the age of 60.
Rob West I see. Okay.
Mark Would they would they follow something like that?
Rob West Yeah, I mean, they absolutely would. And that's really one of the benefits of the trust. It's one of the biggest advantages. You get to direct exactly how, when, and under what conditions your children receive their inheritance. And so, you know, you would be able to say who gets what, when they receive it—so it could be at certain ages or in installments or, to your point, an annual distribution based on the percentage. You know, what happens to the land and the home, what happens if a child passes away, who manages the money? So, you know, you wouldn't have control over what they do with it, but how and when it gets distributed would be completely a part of the purview of the trust. I would just want to make sure you've thought through kind of why you're making the decisions you're making in terms of how much control should we exercise on, you know, how the money is used versus just I want to parse it out over time because, you know, I want to make sure that we're not just dropping too much in their laps, which could be counterproductive. And, you know, I would kind of prefer you direct some of it that you want to go to ministry to do so rather than kind of telling them what to do in terms of a tithe. But at the end of the day, the mechanics of the trust do allow you to make, you know, those directions.
Mark I see. Well, the reason being is because um uh I want them to make sure I want to make sure that, first of all, I know that for by getting 4% that trust should probably live for a long, long time because, you know, normally it's what is required to take out of a 401(k) or things like that. It's 4%.
Rob West Yeah.
Mark Is that correct?
Rob West Yeah. So you're talking about the the rule of 4%, which comes from a gentleman named Bengen, which basically a number of years ago, he since updated it, he said, "Yeah, if you uh are accumulate your retirement assets and then in retirement, uh you should be able to pull 4% a year with a properly diversified portfolio, usually around 60/40, bonds to stocks, and then it gets more conservative over time, you should be able to generate 4% after tax and never exhaust the account. And he's since updated that to 4.7%, but yeah, that's the idea, is that the money would never run out. So that would create essentially a perpetual income stream. You'd have to determine who's going to invest the money because it would need to be invested so we could cover the 4% and and, you know, continue to maintain or even grow the account, and whether the ups and downs. But what would happen after your kids pass away?
Mark Well, I'll I would say.
Rob West Oh, unfortunately we're losing you, Mark. Let's see if we can get you into a a better signal here. Try again.
Mark Okay, uh what I was thinking is.
Rob West Hmm. Unfortunately, yeah, you're you're coming and going. Let me uh yeah, we'll give it one more try if you can move to a spot that might uh get a better signal and try one more time.
Mark But what what what I was thinking was that this way, our kids can receive some, and their kids, as they get older and get to the age of 60, can can receive some. And so down the line, that's what I was thinking.
Rob West Okay. So it just be perpetual, um and then you'd have to just make sure you have a a plan into the future so that the account could be managed, um because you're going to need to name um you know, somebody to oversee the investments. And obviously as you get, you know, beyond the generations, that's going to be more and more challenging because you don't know what you don't know. Um, but if your goal is to keep the balance intact and just provide an income stream to these generations, you know, that can be done. Um, would you give a total of 4% and then divide it based on the number of beneficiaries and, you know, this growing number of descendants, or would you give 4% each?
Mark No, that that would that's 4% total, and then it's divided by the by the whoever by the kids that are going to receive the monies.
Rob West Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And then it would continue to generation two and generation three and generation four, so we'd just have a a growing number of people that are receiving the 4% each uh year.
Mark Correct. Correct. Yes, ma'am. Yes, sir.
Rob West Yeah. Yeah, I mean, so you you certainly can do that. I mean, I think it's just, you know, once we run this out, um, you know, kind of a, you know, down the road, obviously those checks are going to get smaller and smaller, the taxes are going to continue to increase on the home, I mean, eventually we could exhaust it. So you just need to make sure you have an off-ramp in there and you think through the succession on who's going to manage the investments, because that's going to be a big pretty big part of it. But yes, bottom line is what you're describing could be done through a trust.
Mark Okay. Yeah, I had planned something like if that trust ever comes down to $50,000, then go ahead and pull it all off and and and good enough and split it between all the heirs or whatever.
Rob West Very good. Yes, sir. Well, you can get it done, you just need to get with uh an estate planning attorney who can help you set it up and name the successor trustees, and he or she will help you think about uh any other issues related to this as well. I hope that helps. God bless you, my friend. Thanks for being a part of the program. Let's go uh well, we'll stay in Texas. Marcy, go ahead.
Marcy Hi, Rob. I have a quick question for you. I have been banking with uh Bank in California, and um have recently they have merged with another bank, and in my calls to check my balances, um the agents would ask me for my full Social Security number. I had to tell them no, I'm not going to give you that full Social Security number, but um if you could just take the last four, which is what everybody else does, um uh uh I'll give you that, but um I was not going to give them my full Social. So is that are they allowed to ask that?
Rob West Yeah. Yeah, it's that's not unusual, uh but as long as that's in a part of opening an account or the transfer, it shouldn't be something that you would do on an ongoing basis. I've got to take a break, we'll talk more after this. Stay right there.
SEGMENT 5
Rob West Great to have you with us today on Faith and Finance here on American Family Radio. We're going to have room for perhaps one or two more questions before the show is out today, so if you have a question on giving, saving, or spending, call right now: 800-525-7000.
Bob Doll coming up in just a moment. Bob will weigh in on what's moving the markets today. But first, Marcy is in Texas. We talked before the break, and she's had a merger of a bank. The new bank is asking for the full Social Security number. She's wondering if it's okay to give that.
And you know, I think this is a very common practice. The key here is, Marcy, that you're initiating the contact, they're not calling you, because we want to know that you're using the official phone number to reach the official customer service department, and then it would be generally okay to give your full Social Security number.
And that would be common, you know, if it's a new account, or it's a result of establishing the new relationship as a part of the transfer or merger.
Um, if it's in terms of just an ongoing, uh, conversation with the bank whenever you call in, I might ask them, "Is there another secure method that I could use to verify my identity, that I'd prefer not to give the full Social Security number, um, each time?"
And so could it be done through the the uh bank or credit union's secure website? Could it be done with the last four? Could it be done, you know, in other ways?
But are you under the impression that this is going to be uh a normal process, or is this just a result of this being a new relationship?
Marcy Um, that's a good question. I I think I feel like it's not going to change um, because they were so adamant about having the whole number. And I I just I'm not going to do that. I just don't feel secure doing that. Um, so I I'm hoping that maybe they'll create a different way to do that.
Rob West Yeah, and and again, I would go back to—I mean, at the end of the day, you need to be comfortable with anything you're doing. I would say this certainly is not unheard of. Banks do need to verify your identity, and again, if this is kind of at the outset and you know that you're talking to the bank or the credit union directly, then I would say giving that number in full, not a problem.
Um, but I think on an ongoing basis to avoid creating unnecessary exposure, uh, on repeatedly, you know, reciting your full nine-digit social, I would just say, "Can we uh explore an alternate verification method and maybe ask for a supervisor, just to see if there's any way around this?" because, again, once we get past the opening of the account, now we're just into normal banking relationship, and and there should be other means of verification.
But I certainly understand where you're coming from, Marcy. We can't be too careful these days, uh, especially with all the uh the rise in the scams out there.
So, uh, I think it's a very appropriate question.
Thanks for your call today. We appreciate you being on the program.
Well, Bob Doll is here. These markets have been all over the place.
Bob, the uh the Nasdaq in particular, trying to recover after that big sell-off last week. What do you make of where we find ourselves?
Bob Doll You know, it's um one day the Nasdaq is green and the Dow Jones Industrial Average is red, and the next day it seems to be just the opposite. The recovery today is on the back of, as you said, the difficulty we had the end of last week, um good earnings out of CoreWeave, which is a uh key AI stock and has boyed that whole area.
Nvidia uh has come back a bit uh so so far today. But putting it in context, Rob, I just looking at a chart, the stock market is right where it was five months ago.
We've bounced around and gone nowhere uh as we continue to have issues that concern the market along with some things that the market likes. And it's so that I call it the toing and froing, and I suspect we will get more of that.
Rob West Yeah, no doubt. Bob, obviously, inflation front and center. You know, we're reacting to the latest reading and then one of the uh the Fed presidents uh from Chicago saying that he's calling this later latest consumer inflation report borderline disturbing. Uh, where do you think uh the Fed governors and Central Bank go from here?
Bob Doll Well, the high high uh likelihood is that in December, when they meet, they will raise rates by another 25 basis points. Uh, the harder question is what happens in the new year.
Most of us think they will go at least once more, probably in March, maybe again in the second quarter, some people are saying twice in the first quarter. The bottom line is the Fed's not done.
Inflation remains, as we've talked on this program many times, Rob, uh a problem. It's not a disaster, um, but when you're targeting, as the Fed is, 2% inflation and it's uh closer to four, you've got a lot of work to do.
Rob West Yeah, no doubt about it.
Bob, uh earnings front and center. The numbers keep pouring in. Are you encouraged by what you're seeing?
Bob Doll Hard not to be uh encouraged when you see for the third quarter in a row, corporate America producing earnings roughly at a plus 30%. Uh, that's unheard of in uh a steady economy.
So uh yeah, the earnings have been great, Rob, thankfully, because of all the other stuff—interest rates, Fed increasing, oil prices, more in the Middle East—all those things we've thrown at the market, uh earnings have uh carried the day.
Rob West Yeah. Bob, what about just uh money on the sideline? Is there anything to take note of there, you know, in terms of money that, you know, could come back into this market and push it higher?
Bob Doll Yeah, there's uh there seems like in recent years there's been a lot of money on the sidelines, and I I think that will continue. Look, Americans are are generally uh more equity rich than they've been uh perhaps ever uh on the back of um these last few years where stock market performance has been quite good.
Um, and so I think having that reserve on the side as a lot of Americans do, um makes them feel okay in light of uh uh this big big gain in in equities, and uh they're spending some of that money, Rob. That's why we have a consumer that's in pretty good shape, which is why we have an economy that's in reasonably good shape.
Rob West Yeah, and a lot of that uh around the just euphoria of artificial intelligence.
Bob, I know in your uh commentary uh this week, you had some notes on AI. Clearly, we have rich valuations. We have questions swirling about the the change in leadership in Washington and and even state-by-state with a lot of these governors.
Um, what are your thoughts just on where we go from here and this big question around data centers?
Bob Doll: Yeah, let's starting at the back end, data centers, um that was uh a big issue as it turned out in the election, and there were I think 40 um uh issues on ballots in various states about uh data centers um simply yes or no, and uh you know, 40 of them went down to defeat.
Uh, but but but uh the data data centers will be built. There's a demand for computing power.
I take for example Texas, uh not expected, but the Democrats took the governor's mansion and uh the the the uh Democrat that won had been campaigning on, "I'm not so sure about data centers." Now that she's been elected, she's saying, "Well, we just need more care in where we put them, how we construct them, etcetera, etcetera," which is not all bad.
So my my point: data centers will be built. It may take a little longer, maybe more expensive, may happen in slightly different places, but uh the AI story is still intact.
Rob West Bob, I know you had a lot to say about the election in this week's commentary. Is the premise that gridlock is somewhat of a good thing in terms of how the market sees this uh presidency controlled by President Trump, of course, but then the fact that not a whole lot's going to happen over the next couple of years because he's a lame duck?
Bob Doll Yes, historically, markets like gridlock. Um, Washington can't mess it up, quote-unquote, and therefore uh this this is good news, and that's how the market is uh generally operated in in recent years, in fact, decades.
Rob West Uh, last question, Bob, just in in this whole space of faith-based investing, you know, we're continuing to see more and more people think about how we line up our investments with our values as Christ followers. Uh, you know, give uh our listeners just a sense of how that comes into your selection of companies on a day-to-day basis.
Bob Doll It's just like, Rob, we want good companies with smart managements and uh selling at reasonable prices with a good strategic plan. We also want select companies that are doing good and avoid companies that are doing bad.
Um, it it it doesn't have to be off to the side as some people make it. It's warp and woof to uh investment uh practice that uh Christians should follow if uh they want to align their lives with uh um with their faith.
Rob West Yeah, I think that's well said. Well, folks, if you want to learn more about how you can do just that, head over to crossmarkglobal.com. Check out the uh funds that Bob manages. He's been doing it for decades, and it's expressly uh Christian in its approach. Bob, thanks for your time.
Bob Doll Have a great week.
Rob West All right, that's Bob Doll, CEO and CIO at Crossmark Global Investments.
Lynn called, she was not able to hold, but here's her question, which is a great one. It's one I've confronted on uh on various finance committees that I've been on in my local church over the years. How do you feel about a church investing undesignated funds?
Lynn was from North Carolina. And it's a great question, and you know, I think at the end of the day, um, you know, how you approach this needs to be uh really specified, and I think as the church leadership comes together with the finance committee, there needs to be rules that be put in that that are put in place uh that govern how we approach this.
I think my concern is, you know, putting uh funds given to the church expressly to advance the ministry of the church, support uh, you know, the staff, but also advance the various uh gospel ministries of the church, is to get it out.
Now, we want to keep funds and have a healthy amount of reserves, but we typically want to do that in income-generating, but protected and safe resources.
I don't think uh, you know, I certainly wouldn't be on board as a finance committee uh, you know, participant of putting it at the risk of the market.
Because remember, our goal is not to accumulate wealth for wealth's sake. Um, I think our goal is to be wide stewards, and that can include earning some interest, but I don't think it's putting it at risk and, you know, seeing those funds potentially lose value or significant value when their purpose is to be there for the church's use, healthy reserves, and then to advance the mission.
So, I think investing, yes, as long as it's safe and liquid, uh, investing in stocks and bonds, I would be a no on that.
Lynn, thanks for your call. Big thanks to my team today: Taylor, Devin, Patty, Pat, and everybody here at FaithFi.
If you want to uh support our work, head to faithfi.com/give. Your gift will be doubled between now and the end of the year, and we'll send you Randy Alcorn's new
See you tomorrow.
Rob West Faithful stewardship begins long before we decide how much to give. Hi, I'm Rob West. John Wesley famously taught Christians to make all they can, save all they can, and give all they can. But those aren't separate ideas. How we make money matters just as much as what we do with it. Today Robin John joins us to explore how those principles can shape the way we earn, invest, and give. And then it's on to your phone calls at 800-525-7000. This is Faith and Finance on American Family Radio, biblical wisdom for your financial decisions.
What a treat to have my friend Robin John back on the program. He's co-founder and CEO of Eventide Investments, a valued underwriter of Faith and Finance. Founded in 2008, Eventide is a faith-based investment firm that seeks to honor God by investing in a way that makes the world rejoice. Robin is also the author of The Good Investor: How Your Work Can Confront Injustice, Love Your Neighbor, and Bring Healing to the World. Robin, great to have you back.
Robin John It's so wonderful to be with you, Rob.
Rob West Robin, you recently gave a talk inspired by John Wesley's famous sermon, "The Use of Money," which he delivered nearly 300 years ago. But I want you to walk us through Wesley's framework and why his wisdom remains so relevant right now.
Robin John Yeah, John Wesley is an amazing teacher of the word. And John Wesley is known for building frameworks to help guide the Christian life. And John Wesley gave us a framework for stewardship that I believe is still the framework for us today. John Wesley said, "Make all you can, save all you can, give all you can". But, you know, I think when most people hear those statements, they misunderstand what that actually—what John Wesley was intending to say. He wasn't saying, "Make all you can, by any means possible." He was not saying, "Save and hoard wealth for yourself, and then give money away." He actually said, "Make all you can without hurting yourself or your neighbor in body or in soul, save all you can, stop wasting money, and then give all you can." It's a holistic framework where the making, the saving, and the giving all tells the same story.
Rob West I love how you unpack that, and you're right, it's a perhaps much fuller as we understand what he intended in that famous statement. Now, he begins with "make all you can," which seems to affirm the value of business and wealth creation, which I know is near and dear to your heart. But he also places some important boundaries around how we earn money, doesn't he?
Robin John Yes, you know, ultimately for John Wesley, God owns it all. You know, that's something that I hear from you all the time, Rob. I hear this from Ron Blue all the time: God owns it all. John Wesley preached in a sermon that God simply lends wealth to us as stewards, reserving the property to himself. So the entire framework for stewardship must be under their understanding that God owns it all. So how we make money should be honoring to God. We should make money in ways that honor God, that love our neighbor, that don't cause harm to our neighbor, in body or in soul. And Wesley was very—like, very pointed about this, actually. He went through each of those components: do not hurt yourself in your body, do not hurt yourself in your soul, do not hurt your neighbor in his body, do not hurt your neighbor in his soul. And then he even pointedly spoke to industries of his day that he believed was creating exploitation and addiction. One of the industries that he really spoke about in his sermon is the alcohol industry. And, and then he said basically, you Christians who are so focused on building generational wealth, what are you actually leaving to your generation? Is it a legacy of faithfulness or is it blood-stained walls and houses that you've built through ill-gotten gain that you're just passing on to your next generation?
Rob West Yeah, and and so many Christians, Robin, are understanding perhaps in a new way that they've been investing this way all along, and they just didn't realize it, isn't that true?
Robin John Yeah, I think most of us who are really thinking about stewardship, we don't think in terms of what that investment is doing to the world. I think we are so focused on the returns, and I think that's the only way we've ever been taught. But our investment dollars just have an impact on the broader world.
Rob West There's no doubt about it. Faithful stewardship isn't about how much we give away, it's about honoring God with every dollar we earn, invest, spend, and give. We'll talk more with Robin John about this famous quote from John Wesley right after this. Stick around.
SEGMENT 2
Rob West John Wesley famously taught Christians to make all they can, save all they can, and give all they can, but those aren't separate ideas. We're talking about how we make money and why that matters today with Robin John. Robin is the author of the book The Good Investor: How Your Work Can Confront Injustice, Love Your Neighbor, and Bring Healing to the World. If you're interested in exploring these ideas today, The Good Investor would be a great place to start. Robin is also co-founder and CEO of Eventide Investments, investments that make the world rejoice. Eventide is a valued underwriter of this program. Robin, I love what we're talking about here today, and I know this has a deeply personal connection to your own family's story long before you founded Eventide. Would you tell us for a moment about your grandfather and a decision he made while your family was living in poverty in India?
Robin John Yes. So, I was 8 when I moved to the US, and during the first eight years of my life, I lived with my grandparents, slept in the same bed with my grandfather. Late nights, you know, the electricity would go out, there was no running water, no bathroom in the house. Uh, but we were not poor when I was growing up, but I would hear stories of poverty in the family from before I was born. My grandfather was a pastor, church planter. He had eight kids. And often, late nights, he would go to bed crying at night because he couldn't feed his kids. His oldest son, who is 20 years older than my dad, ended up getting a job and started sending money back to the family. But one day, my oldest uncle wrote a letter to my grandfather saying that he was being forced to make false expense reports in order to make dishonest gain from the government, and my grandfather wrote back to him and said, "We cannot receive dishonest gain, please come back home." So for my grandfather, even poverty, even suffering and hunger in the family, was preferred in order to honor God than what he considered to be ill-gotten or dishonest gain. And so, at the same time, he was also a very generous person, and so I've really been inspired and I would say influenced by his testimony, his legacy of faithfulness. Um, the decisions he made financially didn't make any sense, but I would say spiritually they made perfect sense, and it left a lasting legacy in our family.
Rob West Wow, what an incredible story, and I know that shaped, Robin, your approach to investing at Eventide. Uh, talk about how your upbringing and what you just described influenced the way you think about the purpose of investing.
Robin John Yeah. So, you know, the Bible says "better is a little bit with righteousness than great revenues with injustice" in Proverbs 16:8. At the same time, I do believe that as Christians that are seeking to honor God in our wealth creation, in in our investing, that we should be able to outperform the marketplace, because biblical principles are good for this life, it's not just for the next life. So, uh, when I was 27, myself and Finny and others were able to start Eventide, and we had to wrestle with some of the same questions that my grandfather was wrestling with decades earlier. The question was, how should we profit? What types of profits are honoring to God? And, you know, chapters like Proverbs 1, verses 10 to 19, really compelled us to try to figure out what are the types of profits we do not want to participate in: profits from abortion and pornography, tobacco, gambling. We made a whole list of things, and we instead said, "You know what, the Bible says hate what is evil, cling to what is good, avoid ill-gotten gain, embrace companies whose products and whose practices are good for the world, and engage these companies to be even better." So, uh, you know, I think my grandfather's legacy lives on in how we think about profit even today, uh, at Eventide.
Rob West Yes, and if we think about the way God designed wealth creation and productivity and human flourishing, He's a creator, He creates out of nothing, we're co-creators, we take His creation and we put it to work, and that happens through productive enterprise and business, which is intended to be good and serve mankind, and yet so often it's destructive, and then we can turn around and invest in these same companies, and that's what you're seeking to avoid among other things, right?
Robin John That is right. You know, Genesis 1:26, we see that we are given dominion, we are created in the image of God who calls good his work, so that we could continue that work. So the Bible is very clear, we are created in His image so that we could continue that work. Uh, Ephesians 2:10, Paul says, "We are God's workmanship created in Christ Jesus to do good works." Uh, I believe it's Matthew 5:16, Jesus said that the world should see our good works and glorify our Father in heaven. Our God calls His work good, and we are commanded to continue that work. Someday when we stand before God, we hope to hear, "Well done, good and faithful servant." So, I really hope that all of us in our work could be doing the type of work that God would look at and say, "Good."
Rob West Yeah, that's a powerful idea. Wesley eventually brings us, Robin, to his third principle, "give all you can." How does that connect to his earlier instruction to "make all you can"?
Robin John Yeah, for John Wesley, the giving and the making needed to be a framework that had integrity. It needed to tell the same story. Uh, John Wesley would say things like, "We are not to do evil so that good may come." Uh, so John Wesley wanted to be clear that our making and our giving should both be honoring to God, the ends just not justify the means. So, John Wesley said, "Give all you can, but give it from profits that you have made in ways that also honor God." There is a verse in the New Testament, Paul said, "Let him who is stealing, steal no more, let him who is engaged in dishonest gain, engage in dishonest gain no more, and let him do good work, so that he may be generous." So there is a connection between doing good work, making good money in ways that honor God, and then being generous. God is not looking for generosity from ill-gotten gain. God says that many times in the Bible: Deuteronomy 23:18, "Do not bring the earnings of a prostitute, male or female prostitute into the temple to pay any vow, for this is an abomination to the Lord your God." So John Wesley is very clear that we must give all we can once we have made money in ways that honor God.
Rob West Yeah, and I know you brought that idea of making money in ways that honor God into Eventide. You also brought the idea of generosity as a priority into Eventide as well, didn't you?
Robin John Yes, you know, when we started Eventide, we wrote into the operating agreement that 65% of profits would go directly to charity or to donor-advised funds. Uh, so our CFO automatically puts that into donor-advised funds, and hopefully the founders would be even much more generous than that through the 35% that comes into our bank accounts after paying taxes. But, in a way it was I think a very smart, healthy thing to do, uh, was to write that into the operating agreement, because I think what happens for many of us is that once we start making wealth, it becomes harder for us to let go. So making some of those decisions even before the wealth is created really helps us to see the fact that God in fact does own it all. God owns all of Eventide.
Rob West Wow. Folks, maybe after today's broadcast, we can stop asking simply "how much should I give" and start asking "how can every dollar God entrusts to me accomplish the greatest possible good for His kingdom." Robin, thanks for your time.
Robin John Thank you so much, Rob. Thanks for the wonderful work that you do.
Rob West I'm grateful for our partnership. That's Robin John, co-founder and CEO of Eventide Investments. Learn more at faithfi.com/eventide. That's faithfi.com/eventide. We'll be right back.
SEGMENT 3
Rob West What a treat, Hab Robin John here today. Robin is a good friend and so delighted to be with you and great to have him here today as we think about how we align our values with our investments and we do that as we line up what's important to us as Christ followers with our portfolio. And the good news is we have the opportunity to do that now in a way that we never could before. It simply looks like evaluating the companies we're invested in and kicking out those companies that are misaligned with our values, bringing in those companies that are God honoring, loving their stakeholders, their neighbors, their suppliers, their customers, their employees, and engaging. Something American Family Association has been doing with incredible faithfulness over the last couple of years in partnership with Jerry Boyer, his team at Boyer Research, engaging with the companies that they are part owners of to file shareholder proposals, to talk to leadership not just to make a point, but to affect change over time in favor of godly values. And this is what we call faith-based investing. Evan Tide, an underwriter of the program, a real leader in this space, and I love what Robin was talking about today as we think about good work, including not only in our giving, but in our investments. And I think increasingly God's people are stopping to say, maybe I need to look at my portfolio because there is an opportunity now with all of your investments to line them up with your values. And there's some incredible asset managers that are creating world-class investment solutions that match up on cost and performance, but also really are thoughtfully created to align with the values of Christ followers. So, we're grateful for Robin anytime he stops by and what a delightful conversation today.
All right, we want to turn the corner and take your questions today on anything financial, 800-525-7000. That's 800-525-7000. The lines are open, you can call right now. We will dive into those questions here in just a moment. So, if you've got something related to your giving, your saving, your spending, we would love to be able to tackle it with you, help you line up the decisions you're making with your values as a Christ follower. Again, that number with lines open and the team standing by: 800-525-7000. We will dive in here in just a moment. In the news today, if you have a flexible spending account, what's otherwise known as an FSA through your employer, now is a good time to check your balances. You could have money you're about to lose. According to the Employee Benefit Research Institute, roughly 4 in 10, 40% of FSA participants forfeited unused funds in 2024, losing an average of $404. FSAs allow you to set aside pre-tax dollars for eligible healthcare expenses, reducing your taxable income. But unlike health savings accounts, and this is a key idea, unused FSA funds don't necessarily roll over from year to year. Some employers allow you to carry over a portion of your balance or provide a grace period to spend it. Others follow a strict "use it or lose it" policy. The good news: you may have more eligible expenses than you realize, including prescriptions, dental and vision care, sunscreen, first aid supplies. If you're unsure what qualifies, just head over to fsastore.com (fsastore.com) to explore eligible products. Before the year ends, check your balance, review your employer's deadlines, and then consider any upcoming healthcare needs, again, maybe some things you hadn't considered previously. And then as you prepare for 2027, remember that the FSA contribution limit increases to $3,500. The goal isn't simply to save on taxes, but really to plan wisely and make the most of what God has entrusted to you. So, just a quick reminder as we head toward year-end, it seems like there's a bunch of those [laughter]. We're always having to think about as 12/31 approaches quickly.
All right, let's dive into your questions today. Again, lines are open: 800-525-7000. Let's go to Texas. Mark, you'll be first up, sir. Go ahead.
Mark Yes, sir. Mark, I have a question on revocable trusts. If am I doing the right thing, I have quite a bit of assets and I have land and I have a house, and we were just thinking of doing a revocable living trust to leave to our kids as they can as they get older and they can draw some money off of that, receive some money off of that. Am I doing the right thing?
Rob West Yeah, yeah, great question. And you know, I think if you have significant assets, land, and a home, a revocable living trust, Mark, could be a very smart estate planning decision. In fact, the more property you own, especially real estate, the more valuable a trust can be. A will tells the court where your assets should go. A properly funded living trust, a revocable trust, can help your family transfer those assets without going through probate. So, what are the differences? Well, a will is a little less expensive, a trust can be a little more expensive. A will goes through probate, a trust does not. A will is a part of the public record, a trust is private. Control, you retain control while you're alive with a will, and the same is true for a revocable trust because you can change it at any time. In terms of incapacity, if you ever or your wife is ever incapacitated, the will does not cover that. It's going to require separate planning, whereas any assets titled in the name of the living trust would allow that successor trustee that's named to step in and manage trust assets, again, prior to your passing, but if you're incapacitated and unable to do so. There's no automatic tax savings with either of them, but ultimately it's just creating the more efficient transfer. Now, the other benefit which may get to one of the points you made of the living trust is that if you wanted to, you know, hold a piece of property as a part of your estate or you wanted to keep it in the trust beyond your life, beyond you and your wife's life, and keep it in the family and either distribute income from it or you wanted to keep reserves there so they could keep the house and the money would be there to maintain it, that could all be done in a trust as well that would not be possible in a will. So, those are basically the main features. I want to see if you have any follow-up questions on any of that and address any concerns you have. I'm up against a break, Mark, so let's do this: We'll take that break. I'll come right back to you and we'll chat just a bit more. Linda in North Carolina coming your way as well. We'll be right back.
SEGMENT 4
Rob West Great to have you with us today on Faith and Finance here on American Family Radio. I'm Rob West. We're taking your questions today, 800-525-7000. Anything financial, call right now. Before the break, we were talking to Mark in Texas. He's 70, he's retired. He and his wife are considering a trust. They've got some substantial assets: land, a home, and just wondering if a trust would make sense. Mark, I kind of ran through the compare-and-contrast on the will versus the trust, but give me any questions or thoughts you have.
Mark Yes, on that trust, my understanding is that if I would write as to how the money's would is to be shared with my kids, they would do exactly what what I would put in that trust, or is that right?
Rob West Yes. Like I would say, "I put that totals"—say, "I put that totals" will get 5% per year. I'm sorry, 4% per year, and which should be distributed as follows: first, you know, you give your 10% to church, then you would pay the taxes on the ranch, pay the taxes on the house, and then and then what's left, you split it with the two kids. Is is that about right?
Yeah. So essentially, that would be a one-time thing, or would you want that to the assets to stay there and for that to be ongoing?
Mark It would be to be ongoing for the rest as long as the trust is alive or can can, you know, will it go?
Rob West Yeah. So run through that. What do you the high-level overview of the instructions?
Mark It would be like—I put the totals every—say, every December, you go in there and get your totals of that of that of that fund, and uh, and and you get 4% off of that, and that is what's going to be distributed. First goes uh 10% to church, and then what's on that total, you you pay your taxes in the house, pay taxes on on the ranch, and what's left, it's to be distributed between the two kids as long as they're over the age of 60.
Rob West I see. Okay.
Mark Would they would they follow something like that?
Rob West Yeah, I mean, they absolutely would. And that's really one of the benefits of the trust. It's one of the biggest advantages. You get to direct exactly how, when, and under what conditions your children receive their inheritance. And so, you know, you would be able to say who gets what, when they receive it—so it could be at certain ages or in installments or, to your point, an annual distribution based on the percentage. You know, what happens to the land and the home, what happens if a child passes away, who manages the money? So, you know, you wouldn't have control over what they do with it, but how and when it gets distributed would be completely a part of the purview of the trust. I would just want to make sure you've thought through kind of why you're making the decisions you're making in terms of how much control should we exercise on, you know, how the money is used versus just I want to parse it out over time because, you know, I want to make sure that we're not just dropping too much in their laps, which could be counterproductive. And, you know, I would kind of prefer you direct some of it that you want to go to ministry to do so rather than kind of telling them what to do in terms of a tithe. But at the end of the day, the mechanics of the trust do allow you to make, you know, those directions.
Mark I see. Well, the reason being is because um uh I want them to make sure I want to make sure that, first of all, I know that for by getting 4% that trust should probably live for a long, long time because, you know, normally it's what is required to take out of a 401(k) or things like that. It's 4%.
Rob West Yeah.
Mark Is that correct?
Rob West Yeah. So you're talking about the the rule of 4%, which comes from a gentleman named Bengen, which basically a number of years ago, he since updated it, he said, "Yeah, if you uh are accumulate your retirement assets and then in retirement, uh you should be able to pull 4% a year with a properly diversified portfolio, usually around 60/40, bonds to stocks, and then it gets more conservative over time, you should be able to generate 4% after tax and never exhaust the account. And he's since updated that to 4.7%, but yeah, that's the idea, is that the money would never run out. So that would create essentially a perpetual income stream. You'd have to determine who's going to invest the money because it would need to be invested so we could cover the 4% and and, you know, continue to maintain or even grow the account, and whether the ups and downs. But what would happen after your kids pass away?
Mark Well, I'll I would say.
Rob West Oh, unfortunately we're losing you, Mark. Let's see if we can get you into a a better signal here. Try again.
Mark Okay, uh what I was thinking is.
Rob West Hmm. Unfortunately, yeah, you're you're coming and going. Let me uh yeah, we'll give it one more try if you can move to a spot that might uh get a better signal and try one more time.
Mark But what what what I was thinking was that this way, our kids can receive some, and their kids, as they get older and get to the age of 60, can can receive some. And so down the line, that's what I was thinking.
Rob West Okay. So it just be perpetual, um and then you'd have to just make sure you have a a plan into the future so that the account could be managed, um because you're going to need to name um you know, somebody to oversee the investments. And obviously as you get, you know, beyond the generations, that's going to be more and more challenging because you don't know what you don't know. Um, but if your goal is to keep the balance intact and just provide an income stream to these generations, you know, that can be done. Um, would you give a total of 4% and then divide it based on the number of beneficiaries and, you know, this growing number of descendants, or would you give 4% each?
Mark No, that that would that's 4% total, and then it's divided by the by the whoever by the kids that are going to receive the monies.
Rob West Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And then it would continue to generation two and generation three and generation four, so we'd just have a a growing number of people that are receiving the 4% each uh year.
Mark Correct. Correct. Yes, ma'am. Yes, sir.
Rob West Yeah. Yeah, I mean, so you you certainly can do that. I mean, I think it's just, you know, once we run this out, um, you know, kind of a, you know, down the road, obviously those checks are going to get smaller and smaller, the taxes are going to continue to increase on the home, I mean, eventually we could exhaust it. So you just need to make sure you have an off-ramp in there and you think through the succession on who's going to manage the investments, because that's going to be a big pretty big part of it. But yes, bottom line is what you're describing could be done through a trust.
Mark Okay. Yeah, I had planned something like if that trust ever comes down to $50,000, then go ahead and pull it all off and and and good enough and split it between all the heirs or whatever.
Rob West Very good. Yes, sir. Well, you can get it done, you just need to get with uh an estate planning attorney who can help you set it up and name the successor trustees, and he or she will help you think about uh any other issues related to this as well. I hope that helps. God bless you, my friend. Thanks for being a part of the program. Let's go uh well, we'll stay in Texas. Marcy, go ahead.
Marcy Hi, Rob. I have a quick question for you. I have been banking with uh Bank in California, and um have recently they have merged with another bank, and in my calls to check my balances, um the agents would ask me for my full Social Security number. I had to tell them no, I'm not going to give you that full Social Security number, but um if you could just take the last four, which is what everybody else does, um uh uh I'll give you that, but um I was not going to give them my full Social. So is that are they allowed to ask that?
Rob West Yeah. Yeah, it's that's not unusual, uh but as long as that's in a part of opening an account or the transfer, it shouldn't be something that you would do on an ongoing basis. I've got to take a break, we'll talk more after this. Stay right there.
SEGMENT 5
Rob West Great to have you with us today on Faith and Finance here on American Family Radio. We're going to have room for perhaps one or two more questions before the show is out today, so if you have a question on giving, saving, or spending, call right now: 800-525-7000.
Bob Doll coming up in just a moment. Bob will weigh in on what's moving the markets today. But first, Marcy is in Texas. We talked before the break, and she's had a merger of a bank. The new bank is asking for the full Social Security number. She's wondering if it's okay to give that.
And you know, I think this is a very common practice. The key here is, Marcy, that you're initiating the contact, they're not calling you, because we want to know that you're using the official phone number to reach the official customer service department, and then it would be generally okay to give your full Social Security number.
And that would be common, you know, if it's a new account, or it's a result of establishing the new relationship as a part of the transfer or merger.
Um, if it's in terms of just an ongoing, uh, conversation with the bank whenever you call in, I might ask them, "Is there another secure method that I could use to verify my identity, that I'd prefer not to give the full Social Security number, um, each time?"
And so could it be done through the the uh bank or credit union's secure website? Could it be done with the last four? Could it be done, you know, in other ways?
But are you under the impression that this is going to be uh a normal process, or is this just a result of this being a new relationship?
Marcy Um, that's a good question. I I think I feel like it's not going to change um, because they were so adamant about having the whole number. And I I just I'm not going to do that. I just don't feel secure doing that. Um, so I I'm hoping that maybe they'll create a different way to do that.
Rob West Yeah, and and again, I would go back to—I mean, at the end of the day, you need to be comfortable with anything you're doing. I would say this certainly is not unheard of. Banks do need to verify your identity, and again, if this is kind of at the outset and you know that you're talking to the bank or the credit union directly, then I would say giving that number in full, not a problem.
Um, but I think on an ongoing basis to avoid creating unnecessary exposure, uh, on repeatedly, you know, reciting your full nine-digit social, I would just say, "Can we uh explore an alternate verification method and maybe ask for a supervisor, just to see if there's any way around this?" because, again, once we get past the opening of the account, now we're just into normal banking relationship, and and there should be other means of verification.
But I certainly understand where you're coming from, Marcy. We can't be too careful these days, uh, especially with all the uh the rise in the scams out there.
So, uh, I think it's a very appropriate question.
Thanks for your call today. We appreciate you being on the program.
Well, Bob Doll is here. These markets have been all over the place.
Bob, the uh the Nasdaq in particular, trying to recover after that big sell-off last week. What do you make of where we find ourselves?
Bob Doll You know, it's um one day the Nasdaq is green and the Dow Jones Industrial Average is red, and the next day it seems to be just the opposite. The recovery today is on the back of, as you said, the difficulty we had the end of last week, um good earnings out of CoreWeave, which is a uh key AI stock and has boyed that whole area.
Nvidia uh has come back a bit uh so so far today. But putting it in context, Rob, I just looking at a chart, the stock market is right where it was five months ago.
We've bounced around and gone nowhere uh as we continue to have issues that concern the market along with some things that the market likes. And it's so that I call it the toing and froing, and I suspect we will get more of that.
Rob West Yeah, no doubt. Bob, obviously, inflation front and center. You know, we're reacting to the latest reading and then one of the uh the Fed presidents uh from Chicago saying that he's calling this later latest consumer inflation report borderline disturbing. Uh, where do you think uh the Fed governors and Central Bank go from here?
Bob Doll Well, the high high uh likelihood is that in December, when they meet, they will raise rates by another 25 basis points. Uh, the harder question is what happens in the new year.
Most of us think they will go at least once more, probably in March, maybe again in the second quarter, some people are saying twice in the first quarter. The bottom line is the Fed's not done.
Inflation remains, as we've talked on this program many times, Rob, uh a problem. It's not a disaster, um, but when you're targeting, as the Fed is, 2% inflation and it's uh closer to four, you've got a lot of work to do.
Rob West Yeah, no doubt about it.
Bob, uh earnings front and center. The numbers keep pouring in. Are you encouraged by what you're seeing?
Bob Doll Hard not to be uh encouraged when you see for the third quarter in a row, corporate America producing earnings roughly at a plus 30%. Uh, that's unheard of in uh a steady economy.
So uh yeah, the earnings have been great, Rob, thankfully, because of all the other stuff—interest rates, Fed increasing, oil prices, more in the Middle East—all those things we've thrown at the market, uh earnings have uh carried the day.
Rob West Yeah. Bob, what about just uh money on the sideline? Is there anything to take note of there, you know, in terms of money that, you know, could come back into this market and push it higher?
Bob Doll Yeah, there's uh there seems like in recent years there's been a lot of money on the sidelines, and I I think that will continue. Look, Americans are are generally uh more equity rich than they've been uh perhaps ever uh on the back of um these last few years where stock market performance has been quite good.
Um, and so I think having that reserve on the side as a lot of Americans do, um makes them feel okay in light of uh uh this big big gain in in equities, and uh they're spending some of that money, Rob. That's why we have a consumer that's in pretty good shape, which is why we have an economy that's in reasonably good shape.
Rob West Yeah, and a lot of that uh around the just euphoria of artificial intelligence.
Bob, I know in your uh commentary uh this week, you had some notes on AI. Clearly, we have rich valuations. We have questions swirling about the the change in leadership in Washington and and even state-by-state with a lot of these governors.
Um, what are your thoughts just on where we go from here and this big question around data centers?
Bob Doll: Yeah, let's starting at the back end, data centers, um that was uh a big issue as it turned out in the election, and there were I think 40 um uh issues on ballots in various states about uh data centers um simply yes or no, and uh you know, 40 of them went down to defeat.
Uh, but but but uh the data data centers will be built. There's a demand for computing power.
I take for example Texas, uh not expected, but the Democrats took the governor's mansion and uh the the the uh Democrat that won had been campaigning on, "I'm not so sure about data centers." Now that she's been elected, she's saying, "Well, we just need more care in where we put them, how we construct them, etcetera, etcetera," which is not all bad.
So my my point: data centers will be built. It may take a little longer, maybe more expensive, may happen in slightly different places, but uh the AI story is still intact.
Rob West Bob, I know you had a lot to say about the election in this week's commentary. Is the premise that gridlock is somewhat of a good thing in terms of how the market sees this uh presidency controlled by President Trump, of course, but then the fact that not a whole lot's going to happen over the next couple of years because he's a lame duck?
Bob Doll Yes, historically, markets like gridlock. Um, Washington can't mess it up, quote-unquote, and therefore uh this this is good news, and that's how the market is uh generally operated in in recent years, in fact, decades.
Rob West Uh, last question, Bob, just in in this whole space of faith-based investing, you know, we're continuing to see more and more people think about how we line up our investments with our values as Christ followers. Uh, you know, give uh our listeners just a sense of how that comes into your selection of companies on a day-to-day basis.
Bob Doll It's just like, Rob, we want good companies with smart managements and uh selling at reasonable prices with a good strategic plan. We also want select companies that are doing good and avoid companies that are doing bad.
Um, it it it doesn't have to be off to the side as some people make it. It's warp and woof to uh investment uh practice that uh Christians should follow if uh they want to align their lives with uh um with their faith.
Rob West Yeah, I think that's well said. Well, folks, if you want to learn more about how you can do just that, head over to crossmarkglobal.com. Check out the uh funds that Bob manages. He's been doing it for decades, and it's expressly uh Christian in its approach. Bob, thanks for your time.
Bob Doll Have a great week.
Rob West All right, that's Bob Doll, CEO and CIO at Crossmark Global Investments.
Lynn called, she was not able to hold, but here's her question, which is a great one. It's one I've confronted on uh on various finance committees that I've been on in my local church over the years. How do you feel about a church investing undesignated funds?
Lynn was from North Carolina. And it's a great question, and you know, I think at the end of the day, um, you know, how you approach this needs to be uh really specified, and I think as the church leadership comes together with the finance committee, there needs to be rules that be put in that that are put in place uh that govern how we approach this.
I think my concern is, you know, putting uh funds given to the church expressly to advance the ministry of the church, support uh, you know, the staff, but also advance the various uh gospel ministries of the church, is to get it out.
Now, we want to keep funds and have a healthy amount of reserves, but we typically want to do that in income-generating, but protected and safe resources.
I don't think uh, you know, I certainly wouldn't be on board as a finance committee uh, you know, participant of putting it at the risk of the market.
Because remember, our goal is not to accumulate wealth for wealth's sake. Um, I think our goal is to be wide stewards, and that can include earning some interest, but I don't think it's putting it at risk and, you know, seeing those funds potentially lose value or significant value when their purpose is to be there for the church's use, healthy reserves, and then to advance the mission.
So, I think investing, yes, as long as it's safe and liquid, uh, investing in stocks and bonds, I would be a no on that.
Lynn, thanks for your call. Big thanks to my team today: Taylor, Devin, Patty, Pat, and everybody here at FaithFi.
If you want to uh support our work, head to faithfi.com/give. Your gift will be doubled between now and the end of the year, and we'll send you Randy Alcorn's new
See you tomorrow.
John Wesley famously taught Christians to make all they can, save all they can, and give all they can. But those aren’t separate ideas. How we make money matters just as much as what we do with it. On this Faith & Finance on AFR, Rob West and Robin John explore how those principles can shape the way we earn, invest, and give. Then, it’s on to calls.
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