Rob West: What if the companies in your portfolio are working against the values you're trying to live by? Hi, I'm Rob West. Faith-based investing gives Christians a way to consider not only financial returns, but also what their investment dollars are supporting. Today, Brian Mumbert joins us to explain how it works, what the research says about performance, and how investors can get started. And then it's on to your calls at 800-525-7000. That's 800-525-7000. This is Faith and Finance on American Family Radio. Biblical wisdom for your financial decisions.
Well, we always learn a lot when Brian Mumbert joins us. He's President of Timothy Plan, an underwriter of this program and a family of mutual funds and ETFs that helped pioneer faith-based investing nearly three decades ago. Brian, great to have you back.
Brian Mumbert: Great to be here, Rob.
Rob West: Now Brian, you weren't there on day one, were you?
Brian Mumbert: Ha, would have been nice. My wife Cheryl was. I've been here 20 of the years.
Rob West: Okay, yeah, a long time and now leading the charge doing some incredible work. I want to start with the basics today. For someone who may be new to this, what exactly does faith-based investing look like for Timothy Plan, and how does it differ, Brian, from a conventional approach?
Brian Mumbert: Well, it really starts with the same goal. I mean, we're all me- stewardship, wealth, for long-term growth. But the big thing, of course, about faith-based investing is it adds a value filter. So then you start by avoiding companies that profit or endorse activities that are contrary to biblical teaching. And, you know, some examples of this that are common are things like abortion, or pornography, or gambling, and other activities that might prey on the addictions of the most vulnerable in society. And then you look to seek out firms that create God-honoring products. And then ultimately, you still use a very disciplined financial analysis. And the screening comes before the portfolio construction, so the end result is you end up with a product that has competitive returns and upholds your values.
Rob West: Well, that's really helpful. And that's perhaps the biggest pushback we hear: that if you're going to screen out entire industries and limit your universe of investments, doesn't that hurt performance? What do the numbers actually show?
Brian Mumbert: Yeah, there's been some great studies done on this by some of the great partners in this space. Multiple independent studies that have really found no persistent performance penalty, and some even find better returns for the amount of risk taken. But really, removing companies that face social and regulatory headwinds can also reduce this risk. And when you look at Timothy Plan as a whole, you'll see very competitive 5- and 10-year track records against benchmarks that are secular, especially when you look at some funds like our Small-Mid Cap Growth or even our Israel Fund that exceed their benchmarks.
Rob West: Yeah, exactly right. They've done phenomenally well. Now, another concern investors have is what may be hiding beneath the surface. So, how does your research and screening team evaluate companies and make sure the investments remain aligned with your biblical standards?
Brian Mumbert: What I love about being here with Timothy Plan is the 30-plus years of experience in screening. And so there's a proprietary screening process here that focuses on these big moral issues, and the research is updated continually. And you're looking really deep to see what a company might profit or promote, and what the companies are doing at the corporate level. We leverage some third-party data as well, and these companies are reviewed periodically. Companies can change their missions and visions, as we've seen recently, they can change quickly. And then transparent reports at the end of the day let shareholders verify all the holdings that we have. And of course, you can contact us by phone or email to get a report and see how your investments align with biblical principles.
Rob West: Yeah, that's exactly right. Well, let's finish today with the actual options available to investors. So, what investment vehicles can someone use to build a diversified portfolio and stay aligned with their biblical values?
Brian Mumbert: Rob, here at Timothy Plan, we have 12 mutual funds and now 7 ETFs to choose from. The ETFs are a great low-cost option. The mutual funds have been around for a long time. Very unique funds, like even an Israel Fund as I mentioned before. Very low minimums. You can get in for as low as $1,000, or even do a $50 a month automatic investing plan that gets you access to it right away. And really, you know, at the end of the day, I always tell people, you know, I know costs are always a concern, but I'm willing to pay a little bit more for something that truly matches what I'm looking for. And in the case of faith-based investing and being a Christian, that's where I like to look.
Rob West: That's exactly right. So folks, take an inventory of your current holdings. In fact, Timothy Plan provides free screening tools for you to take advantage of that. Reach out to them, perhaps even find a Certified Kingdom Advisor who can help build a faith-based investing portfolio using the Timothy Plan solutions. You can learn more at timothyplan.com. That's timothyplan.com. Brian, thanks for your time.
Brian Mumbert: Thank you, Rob.
Rob West: We'll be right back with your questions. Stick around.
David Wollen: For your walk with Jesus, I'm David Wollen with Haven Today, inviting you to anchor your day in God's Word. The Apostle Paul once wrote to Timothy, "I am reminded of your sincere faith, a faith that dwelt first in your grandmother Lois and your mother Eunice, and now I am sure dwells in you as well." So, who were these two faithful women, Lois and Eunice? Their names are in the Bible not because of extraordinary work per se, but for ordinary work—so ordinary we don't even know exactly what it was. Simple things, probably, like reading God's Word to Timothy, praying together, living out their faith in front of him. And still today, it's often in the mundane, everyday things we do still in which God uses humble godliness to accomplish His purposes. Get more daily encouragement at haventoday.org.
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Rob West: Hey, thanks for joining us today on Faith and Finance here on American Family Radio. I'm Rob West, and looking forward to taking your calls and questions today. It was great to be joined by my friend Brian Mumbert from Timothy Plan. I'll tell you, what's happening in faith-based investing is really exciting—so much happening in terms of innovation in the space. I mean, Brian mentioned just the sheer number of ETFs that they have now, exchange-traded funds with a faith-based approach. And, you know, that didn't exist a year ago.
So there's an incredible opportunity now with just a significant number of world-class investment options like the ones at Timothy Plan for you to invest in a faith-aligned way—in a way that didn't exist anywhere close to what it looks like today. And so, you know, be sure to take a look at this. Perhaps you could head to the Timothy Plan website and screen your own portfolio. I mean, that might be a great starting place for you just to say, "What industries am I invested in with my current holdings that maybe I have no idea about? Are you heavily invested in the alcohol or things that have streaming that includes pornography? Or are you involved in pharmaceuticals that make an abortion pill?"
You know, these kinds of things so often people don't understand that they're actively invested in and owners of these companies. Now, maybe it's a small percentage, but nevertheless, stock ownership is ownership. And so it's an incredible opportunity for you just to start with, "Where am I invested today?" and then to say, "What would it look like to begin to move with these world-class investments that now exist in the mutual fund space, in the ETF space, separate account management space, where I could be more faith-aligned?" And boy, if I have that option, I'm absolutely going to take advantage of it.
Now, if you're someone who says, "You know, I really would rather delegate to an advisor who could build that kind of portfolio for me," well, great. That's an option as well, and you can head to findacack.com. About a year and a half ago, we added a feature to that CKA search at findacack.com where, when you choose a CKA in the investing space, it will ask you, "Do you want CKAs who do traditional investing or faith-based investing?" And if you choose faith-based investing, it is going to limit your search results to only Certified Kingdom Advisors who can build a faith-based investing portfolio for you. Again, that website: findacack.com.
Listen, if this is a brand-new idea to you, don't be concerned about that. That's just the reality. This is a new and emerging space. Now, it's maturing quickly, but it's still relatively new. Most people who are sincere followers of Christ have not ever thought about a faith alignment in their investments. They can now today, and so what an opportunity for you to lean into it. It's still emerging, but pretty exciting what's going on there.
All right, we want to take your questions on anything financial today. When you call 800-525-7000, whether you're giving, saving, spending, whatever it is you're thinking about today, we've got lines open. We'd love to tackle your question. Again, 800-525-7000. We will dive into those questions here in just a moment, so now is the time to call.
In the news today, a recent Bankrate survey finds that many Americans are financially unprepared for a $1,000 expense. Listen to this: just 30% of adults surveyed said they could cover that cost using savings. About one-third said they would need to borrow through a credit card, personal loan, or family and friends. The survey was 2,564 US adults; it was conducted in December 2025.
You know, for Christians, Scripture gives us a clear picture of wise preparation. Proverbs 22:3, I think of—it says, "The prudent sees danger and hides himself, but the simple go on and suffer for it." And then Genesis 41, you know the story: Joseph prepared Egypt for a coming famine. What did he do? Well, he set aside one-fifth (20%) of the harvest during the seven years of abundance, and that preparation ultimately preserved countless lives.
Wow. Biblical stewardship is not only about faithfully using what God provides today; it also means wisely preparing for tomorrow. The reality is, we all know this is true: emergencies will come. But setting aside resources now can help us face them without unnecessary financial crisis. So hope we can all heed that today. I'm talking to myself as well, and think about having some margin so we can build that emergency fund and have those sinking funds for various areas of our budget where we know replacement needs to occur—think cars, homes, appliances. Emergency fund on top of that for the unexpected—that's just prudent. It's wise stewardship. It's not a lack of trust in the Lord; it's just exercising wisdom over what God has entrusted to us. Hope that's a good reminder for you today.
Rob West: All right, calls are coming in at 800-525-7000. Call right now if you've got a question on anything financial. Let's begin in Texas today. Greg, you'll be first up. Go ahead, sir.
Greg: Hello, Mr. West. God bless you for what all of you are doing there. I'm a FaithFi partner and so enriched by what you have to say all the time. I've been involved in biblical economics for decades. Last week, you gave a lady from Texas—she was in her 70s, looking after her 80-year-old husband's affairs, and she was wisely trying to determine to make sure she had access to the bank funds, the investments, everything else, and you gave her excellent advice about making sure she was there as a joint owner and rights of survivorship.
And I had my experience with my mother and father in Las Vegas. They've been married for 45 years, and he unexpectedly died. He was predominantly the administrator of their marriage, and she was now caught off guard, flat-footed, because she had not ever been involved in the financial structure of their marriage. And unfortunately, he had bought a car just a year prior and, unfortunately, put it in his name only. So when she discovered that, she tried to say, "Well, I'll go down to the bank and get a loan and pay that car off and then move on with my life." Well, she discovered the bank that they had spent their entire life doing finances with, she had never ever established her own identity of credit—credit identity. And she had assumed that because she was an authorized user on the credit cards that that would just transfer to her, but she unfortunately found out that no, she had never ever established a credit identity.
And here she is now in her mid-70s, unable to even get a $500 loan from the bank she's dealt with all of her life because... And so I would just add to the advice that you gave about, yes, preemptively making sure you have access to the bank accounts and finances and everything, but also a lot of wives, a lot of people in the financial unit, one person may be the administrator of the funds and the other is just the excited participant, so to speak. But make sure that you have a... get with Equifax, TransUnion, and Experian to make sure that you have a personal credit identity so that you won't be... This could happen to even a young marriage.
Rob West: Yes. Wow, Greg, such great advice! I am up against a break here, but when we come back, I want to comment on what you said. Such great counsel, I want to add to it. Really appreciate your call today, sir. God bless you. We'll be right back.
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Rob West: So glad to have you with us today on Faith and Finance here on American Family Radio. I'm Rob West. We're taking your calls and questions today at 800-525-7000. That's 800-525-7000. We have three lines open. If you have a question on anything financial, go ahead and call right now. Before the break, we heard from Greg in Texas. What a gift it was to hear from Greg today. He counsels people in this area of financial stewardship and has been in the space of faith and finance for many years, and was reacting to a conversation we had with a caller last week where he was affirming the counsel around making sure that certain accounts were titled joint tenants with right of survivorship. She wanted to make sure if her husband passed before her that there would be efficiency with how certain assets would transfer and that she'd have immediate access to them and not have to wait for the probate process to play out. But Greg was adding an important additional thought, and that is around credit, which I fully agree with what Greg shared before the break.
You know, I think there's an important distinction to highlight here, and that is being an authorized user on a spouse's credit card is not the same thing as having credit in your own name. So you may benefit from the account's payment history—in fact, most accounts, when you're set up as an authorized user, you do receive their credit history, it flows through, and that's a good thing, it can help bolster your credit—but that does not necessarily mean that you've established an independent credit history or that you can keep using the account if the primary cardholder dies or the account is closed. Which is why, to Greg's point, you want both husband and wife to establish credit.
And so it's this idea that, you know, we certainly want to have unity in marriage in all areas, including financial unity—that's essential. But we also need to know what accounts exist, we need to have access, we need to have an understanding of how everything works. A team member brought up something last week that stuck with me: in our careers, we're often told to make ourselves indispensable, right? That's what's going to set you up for career success, we hear that often. But when it comes to estate planning, that's terrible advice! We don't want to be so indispensable that if something happens to us, our spouse is left in complete disarray without passwords, unaware of certain accounts, discovering at the worst possible moment that assets aren't in their name.
And so, you know, we need to be really cautious about that. By the way, being indispensable isn't great career advice either—if everything falls apart when one person is gone, then the knowledge hasn't been shared and responsibilities haven't been stewarded well. So the goal is unity, preparation, good stewardship, and that includes having credit in your own name, that includes having access, it includes having knowledge of where everything's at, how to get into it, and what would happen if the unexpected occurred. So anyway, great counsel from Greg there, and so appreciate his weighing in today. Also appreciate Greg, you being a partner. You know, our FaithFi partners who support this ministry at $35 a month are the lifeblood of this ministry. We can't do what we do as a listener-supported ministry without FaithFi partners. Partners receive each one of our magazines, studies, devotionals, and field guides as they roll out. If you want to join Greg as a partner and maybe you love the program, just head to faithfi.com/give to learn more. All right, let's head to Virginia. Brian, go ahead.
Brian: Hey, Rob. How are you doing today?
Rob West: Doing great. Appreciate your call.
Brian: Great. Thank you. I appreciate your time. I just wanted to ask, I've been truly blessed that I have the ability now—I'm within three years of retirement and I'm able to save up to the maximum amount in my Thrift Savings Plan, I'm a federal employee. And so my question is this: as I get ready to approach retirement, I was considering dropping down that contribution to save up some cash to pay the taxes on Roth conversions once my income drops after retirement. And so I wanted to ask your opinion on that, and if you think that's a good idea to drop down to where my match is to save up that money to pay the taxes so I don't have to take it out of the withdrawal, and then where to put that money if I do end up doing that.
Rob West: Yeah. Boy, great thoughts, I love the direction you're headed here. And I think the key is we want to separate how much you need to save for retirement from when it makes sense to pay taxes on a Roth conversion. So at 54 with retirement planned for 57, you know, I'd be cautious about reducing TSP contributions simply to build cash unless you feel like you have real clarity around what your ultimate savings target is and you're on track to meet or exceed it. And so I just want to make sure you've walked through that process of looking at what your expected retirement expenses are going to be, and then just really have a thoughtful assessment of your income sources. So, you know, the income stream that that TSP could generate, and then Social Security if you have it on top of that, and any other reliable income sources, just to make sure you are in fact on track.
You know, I think in terms of looking at that Roth conversion, I love that idea, and I think, you know, considering partial conversions over several years does make a lot of sense, especially when you're in those years where your income has dropped and you're not yet paying any kind of—having any required minimums. You also haven't started to take Medicare yet, so you don't have the risk of the IRMAA. You'd be in a really great spot there. You'd obviously be pre-Social Security as well, which I think would be helpful also. So I think in terms of kind of the general direction there, I think that makes sense. But do you feel like you're on track with what you've already accumulated?
Brian: I do. And with the fact of having a pension built up, and then they pay an offset for the first five years of your retirement too, I would not need to draw much if any from my Thrift Savings Plan traditional account, and my lifestyle is such that I really don't need to withdraw much at all from that anyway. So, and I could probably even do without it. So yeah, it looked like a good window from 57 to 62 to do some conversions.
Rob West: Yeah, I like that a lot. I think you're right on track there. So since you've got that pension, you don't expect to need the TSP, setting that money aside for the Roth conversion, I'd just treat that as short-term tax-payment money, not retirement investment money. So I'm talking high-yield savings, treasury money market fund, short-term T-bills. You've got that money safe, liquid, you know, and then if you plan to convert $50,000, maybe an estimated $12k in reserves to pay the tax on it. But I love the plan. We'll be right back.
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Rob West: Great to have you with us today on Faith & Finance here on American Family Radio. I'm Rob West. We're taking your questions today on anything financial, helping you think about stewarding God's money God's way. That's right, you and I are money managers for the King of Kings. That's a really important job. It's a really high calling. We look to God's word. Guess what? There's over 2,350 verses that deal with money and possessions, many of them around how money can compete with our hearts for devotion to God. You know, Jesus is our ultimate treasure. God owns everything. You and I, we're stewards. We don't have ownership rights; we have stewardship responsibilities. Money is a tool; faithfulness is the goal. What does faithfulness look like today? What is my next faithful step? That should be the lens with which we see management of God's resources as stewards on a daily basis. Our goal here at FaithFi, we want to help you do that every day as you live, and give, and spend for God's glory, for your enjoyment. Part of this is for us to enjoy, and yes, to provide, but we also give and we invest in a way that loves our neighbor, and promotes the common good, and helps the vulnerable, and extends and expands the gospel to the ends of the earth. What a privilege it is as money managers for the King of Kings. Well, each day we want to take your very practical questions as you give, save, and spend. And so if you've got a question, call right now: 800-525-7000. We'd love to hear from you today. Let's go to Ohio. Julia, how can I help?
Julia: Yes, hi! Thank you for taking my call. I love all your advices. It's been such a blessing and of impact in my life and our life.
Rob West: That's great.
Julia: Yeah, I have a question today. We have 14-year-olds and they just got into freshman high school. And, you know, over the birthday and Christmas money and things like that, the kids have about like $500, I guess, of their own money. And now that they're in high school, you know, we should probably let them start like, I guess, fully deciding how to manage their money, per se. And, you know, paying them for chores and things. And I feel like we started it, but we never really stuck to a plan. And so I was wondering, what do you think is a wise plan about paying them for chores and mowing the lawn, and also just, you know, I mean, do we give them complete freedom over their money? And things that they want to buy is typically, you know, clothes and basketball shoes. But we just got them a cell phone that costs like $10 a month. I mean, you know, do we tell them they pay for that? You know, how do we get a plan and really try to stick with it through now till, you know, when they leave the house, per se?
Rob West: Yeah. Boy, I love that you're thinking about this right now. What a great opportunity, Julia. You know, with teenagers in the home, you have a wonderful chance to teach them not just what to do with money, but what money is actually for. And I'll get real practical here in a second, but I'm reminded of Joshua 4, when the Israelites stacked stones after crossing the Jordan. You know, that wasn't a strange ritual. It was intentional. God wanted future generations to ask, "What do these stones mean?" so parents could tell the story of what God had done. I think money should work the same way. We don't just want to give our kids a formula: save this much, and invest this much, and have this much in emergency funds. Yes, those are important, but those should flow out of the bigger story of who God is and what he's done for us. So when we understand as a starting point that God owns it all, and that we are stewards, then money finds its proper place. We don't save for ultimate security. We, you know, don't spend for fulfillment. We don't give out of guilt. God becomes our treasure, and then we save, spend, and give as an act of faithful stewardship. And I think that could be a great kind of starting place, is just for you to provide a framework for them to think about money management through a biblical worldview. Now, they're going to quickly say, "Okay, yeah, but what should we do?" And that's important too. But I think you reinforcing these bigger ideas of a biblical worldview of money and the role of money in our lives—and really how money can be dangerous when it becomes an idol. You know, the love of money is the root of all evils, the Bible tells us. But money itself is a good gift from God to be used for our enjoyment, and to provide for ourselves and over time their families, and to give and invest in a way that promotes the common good. You know, but they need to have that. They're not going to hear that anywhere else. Now, in terms of where they go from here, I love the idea of you all helping them decide, you know, what to do with the money they're bringing in. I mean, our approach was always to say, listen, there are minimum expectations for you to be a part of our household, and there are certain things you need to do. You're going to need to keep your room clean and your bed made when you, you know, leave for school in the morning. Um, there's a chore chart that says, you know, and maybe you rotate it every week, but here's what your responsibility is. You're not going to get paid for this. This is just a part of you being a part of our family, and we all pitch in, and, and, you know what, we learn the value and the importance of having, you know, keeping things maintained. But then I think there are those other, maybe separate tasks that you and your husband would carve out to say, "Hey, if you want to do these things, this is above and beyond the regular chores, we'll pay you for it." And, you know what, you get a certain amount based on the task, and by the way, you have to reach a certain level of excellence in doing it or the compensation is not going to, you know, fully comply. And it may be something like, you know, maybe it is washing the car if that's not, you know, a part of their chore chart, or just something above and beyond, maybe it's raking leaves. You know, it could be any number of things, and that's where you have the ability to do, you know, something that's a little above and beyond. They can work for it. Now, maybe alongside that, you do an allowance, you know, a certain amount per week that they get automatically. And, you know, then you start to talk about, okay, out of everything that comes in, what does it look like to give first, save second, and maybe you have, you know, something that they know they're saving for. I think it's always helpful when it's a known item and it's visible, and everybody knows what it is. And then the rest is left for spending, and maybe it's those extra things. You know, you cover their shoes, but only up to a certain amount, and, you know, only a couple of times a year. And if they want to buy the shoes that are not $80, but $150, you know, that's got to come out of their extra, you know, earnings, either because they're working beyond the chore chart or because they're saving up their allowance, you know, because they want to buy something a little nicer. And so I think, you know, that's a process that you can begin to work out. Now, alongside that, I love the idea of you getting them started in investing. Maybe you open a custodial account for them or just open a regular brokerage account and introduce them to what it looks like to starting to invest systematically. Um, you know, I was just running the numbers the other day. If you put a $1,000 contribution into account, uh, you know, when a child is, you know, like, I think it was like 8 years old, and it grows for until they're 60, there'd be over a million dollars in there if you don't add anything else to it, just in the growth of the investments. I mean, that's incredible, and you could start to teach them the power of compounding. As they get older, you can also turn over certain expenses, you know, on a project basis for them to manage. One of the things we did in our household is we said, "Okay, kids, you guys get our eating out budget for the month, and we want you to sit down around the table. We're not going to be present. You guys figure out, here's the dollar amount, you guys figure out how we're going to use it." And it was so much fun to listen to them in the other room, like negotiating with each other, like, "Well, when we go out to lunch after church, I want to be able to go here." "Well, we can't go there, that's too expensive." And it was just a real, you know, life lesson for them to say, "Listen, there's limited resources. We want to be able to do certain things, and so we're not going to be able to do everything." I know one family that turned over—and this was kids that I think were 16 and 17—they turned over their vacation fund and said, "Listen, you guys get a certain portion of this to allocate how we're going to spend this money while we're on vacation. We're praying for you. Good luck." And, you know, I mean, the life lesson there. I think the other thing is in the giving space. Maybe you put money in a donor-advised fund, you give it away together. I'm up against a break. I want to get your thoughts on this after the break. Stay right there.
Announcer: Hi, I'm Tim Moore, Senior Evangelist on Christ in Prophecy. With all the uncertainty in the world today, it's good to know that God's promises never change. On Christ in Prophecy, we'll examine the signs of the times and consider what's really happening in the world today through the lens of God's prophetic word. To hear more biblical hope for the future, join me for Christ in Prophecy, Sundays at 11:00 AM Central, right here on American Family Radio, and find out what's really going on in the world.
Announcer: The Awakening with Bishop E.W. Jackson. We have not been made the greatest nation in the history of mankind by denigrating God. We have become the greatest nation on earth because we are a nation that acknowledged Almighty God to be the source of our values, our rights, our liberties, and that therefore we are accountable to Him. The Awakening, on the podcast page at afr.net.
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Announcer: We are grateful for support from Timothy Plan. Since 1994, Timothy Plan has shared good news with investors and advisors by offering faith-honoring mutual funds and exchange-traded funds. More information is at timothyplan.com. The investment objectives, risks, charges, and expenses are contained in the prospectus and summary prospectus available at timothyplan.com. Mutual funds distributed by Timothy Partners, Limited and ETFs distributed by Foreside Fund Services, LLC. Investing involves risks, including possible loss of principal.
Rob West: You know, more is caught than taught. So we need to model faithful stewardship for the next generation. That starts at home, well before they leave to become adults on their own. Julia, I threw a lot at you there before the break. Give me your thoughts on all that.
Julia: Oh yeah, I think, um, yeah, I agree with all that. I guess I just needed it kind of, uh, uh, written out, and I I uh wrote down what you said. Um, yeah, I I agree with the whole caught and taught. Um, we are, you know, debt-free and things, and I mean, um, they see us going to church, and they're starting to ask, "Well, how much do you give to church?" You know, um, and helping Grandma and things like that, you know. Um, I didn't know about the Trump account that anyone could open one.
Rob West: Yeah, so you As long as they're under 18, you can open a Trump account, and essentially you put in after-tax dollars. You can put in up to $5,000 uh per year, and then that would grow tax-deferred, and then they'd have something, you know, down the road uh that they could uh pull out in retirement or or at least, you know, much further down the road. Uh, you can check it out at trumpaccounts.gov, trumpaccounts.gov. Let me do this though, Julia. To your point about kind of having a roadmap, I'm going to send you a book. How many kids do you have?
Julia: Oh, well, I have twins. They're 14.
Rob West: Okay, incredible. Yeah, we have uh twin girls that are 17, so uh what a gift that is. Um, I'm going to send you two copies of Dr. Art Rainer's book, The Money Challenge for Teens. It's a great resource to walk through with your teenagers. It'll help them understand what the Bible says about money while they're young, but it'll actually give you kind of a step-by-step roadmap on the practical side of money management as well. Again, it's called The Money Challenge for Teens by our friend Dr. Art Rainer, and uh we'll put two copies in the mail to you, okay?
Julia Oh, great. Thank you so much.
Rob West: All right, you're welcome, Julia. Hang on the line. My team will get your information, and we'll get those books right out to you. Lord bless you.
Rob West: Let's go to Tennessee. Hi, Charlotte. How can we help?
Charlotte: Um, I wanted to ask, what is the best way to protect my mom's money, and also giving her still giving her her independence? Um, she and I have I moved in with her three years ago to take care of her, and in the will, I am the executor. Um, as far as her bank account, I think she has a a POD with me, my oldest sister who has passed away, and my brother.
Rob West: Okay.
Charlotte: Um, I'm not sure how that will work out. And also, we are thinking about She wants to move into an independent living, and they're extremely expensive. Um, her Social Security check is $2,800 a month, and to uh help pay for that, she has a house she left to me in the will. But I was thinking it would be good if we could just rent the home out to help her pay for the rest of, you know, the fee for the independent living. Does that make sense?
Rob West: Yeah, it certainly could. I mean, who would become the the person managing that? Would that fall on you to be the property manager?
Charlotte: Yes, I'm sure it would. So...
Rob West: Yeah, so you just need to be ready to become a landlord. I mean, that's that's not an insignificant responsibility. I'm sure you have plenty on your plate right now, and so you just need to understand, you know, what's involved. Um, but is there anybody else that can help you with that?
Charlotte: No, not really. I do have my plate full, so.
Rob West: Okay. So, I think that's just a real consideration. But let's back up there. So, you know, I think ultimately, there's a couple of thoughts here. Um, you know, I think first of all is just recognize um when it comes to your mom, you know, uh being named executor is not enough to manage or protect her money while she's alive. So, your role as executor begins after death. So, you really need to distinguish that role from other legal instruments like a financial power of attorney, which can authorize someone to act during your mom's lifetime. Do you know if if that exists?
Charlotte: That does not. And that's something that I would like to do, but I felt she's kind of she wants her independence. She doesn't want that taken away.
Rob West: Right. Yeah, the the challenge is that, you know, that doesn't in any way negate her um her independence. This is really in the event she's incapacitated. Somebody needs the legal authority while she's still alive but unable to make decisions on her behalf. Somebody needs to be able to step in and make legal and financial decisions for her. Um, everybody needs that, and and that's not a matter of taking away her independence. It's just a matter of being, you know, have wise planning in place. Um, you know, I think the other thing is to review the bank account and the estate documents probably with an elder law attorney um, you know, because we've got some of you on the accounts. We just need to understand. Uh, you believe that's a POD. Is that right, payable on death?
Charlotte: Yes, sir.
Rob West: Okay. Yeah, so that just means that at death, that's going to pass outside of probate, and it sounds like it's probably going to be split three ways between the three of you, and it will pass immediately uh to you all. And so, you know, that that's certainly appropriate if that's what the way she wants that done. Um, you know, I would...
Charlotte: My oldest sister... I'm sorry. My oldest my oldest sister has passed away. Ah, okay. So, sorry. So, will that automatically go between my brother and I?
Rob West: Yeah, but it really needs to be updated. So, I think, you know, this is where as life changes, we need to update PODs and TODs, so you'd have transfer on death on, you know, fine- um certain accounts like your bank account, or or a POD. They essentially act the same way. You could have a TOD on the house, and then you have beneficiary designations for like retirement accounts and investment accounts. Uh, they all essentially act where it would bypass probate. But yeah, at at someone's passing, those all really need to be updated. It's easy to do, but it's going to just create a lot more simplicity. Um, you also need to check whether the will and the account designations agree. So, if your mom intends for the assets to be divided among her children, um, or, you know, a deceased uh child's descendants... So, did your sister have have kids?
Charlotte: Yes, and she my mother left her a certain amount uh in the will.
Rob West: Okay. All right. So, you just want the attorney to confirm that the account titling and the beneficiary designations accomplish what she intends. Uh, a will alone won't control a joint account with right of survivorships or an account with a a POD on it. And so, again, we want to make sure that that reflects what she's intending. And if her intention is she's already carved out money for her grandkids uh of your sister, then she would want to update the POD so that it's now 50/50 between you and your brother. Um, there's also some other tools beyond the financial power of attorney like a healthcare surrogate, which in the same way the power of attorney covers financial and legal decisions, the healthcare surrogate would cover medical decisions, again, in the event she's incapacitated. You would also want to make sure you have a living will where she expresses her end-of-life decisions as well. Uh, with regard to the ability to fund um, you know, the uh the uh the the living, independent living that is costly, uh you just need to make sure, you know, you've got the $2,800 a month in Social Security, and, you know, if you were to move toward renting that house, you just need to understand that could provide income, but you need to know what that net rent is going to be after property taxes, insurance, maintenance, vacancies, repairs, management costs. Um, so you becoming the landlord is possible, but there's going to be a lot of work, and you just need to know there's potential family conflicts. And maybe that's not an issue, but you just need to know. Um, and, you know, if you manage the property, you're going to have to have a power of attorney because you're going to want to act on your mom's behalf and make sure your mom's money is separate, and you maintain records so that, you know, you can explain what decisions were made and what you're spending money on. Um, you're also going to want a CPA to look at the tax tax consequences of renting versus selling, because the other option is you all sell this house, or your mom does, and then you take the proceeds, and you invest it with the purpose of generating passive income that doesn't require you to become a landlord, that then we could draw an income from the investments that, when added to Social Security, might be, you know, what's needed to fund the independent living. But you're just going to need to make sure that's viable.
Charlotte: You know, yeah. Okay. So, the the power of the financial power of attorney...
Rob West: Mm-hmm.
Charlotte: ...does not take her independence away, um, you said. But does that give me um, will I be able to have like access to all of her bank accounts and all that?
Rob West: Yes. Well, it it depends on the account. Um, how are you listed on the accounts currently?
Charlotte: Um, just a POD. Like I I take care of all the bills now. I have access to everything. But in case of her becoming incapacitated, we do need a financial POA, is that right?
Rob West: Uh, yes. So, you're going to need that uh that financial POA, power of attorney, for you to be able to step in. Um, and and it can still be effective while your mother is still fully capable, depending on how it's written. So, an immediate an immediately effective POA would allow you to act now, um, and that would allow you to act as landlord while she's not incapacitated. But the important distinction is that it's durable, which means the authority continues through incapacitation. Uh, it doesn't mean the authority begins only at incapacitation, but the durable power of attorney covers both now and in the future if she's unable to act for herself. But you would just have to make it clear for her to her that you're only going to act on things you and she agree on, like if you were to become the landlord, and/or when she becomes incapacitated and is not able to act for herself. But an estate planning attorney can go over all of this, and I think that's really the next step for you.
Charlotte: Thank you so much. You you've helped me tremendously.
Rob West: Well, you're welcome. I appreciate your call. You sound like a wonderful daughter, and Lord bless you, Charlotte. Call anytime. Well, folks, uh that's going to do it for us today. Big thanks to my team, Taylor and Adam and Patty and Pat and everybody here at FaithFi. Hey, uh this month only, what a gift we have to be able to uh partner with our friends at Buckner Shoes for Orphan Souls. Every $15 given provides a new pair of shoes for a child in a part of the world where they don't have access to shoes. It's going to cover the cost of shoes, socks, and to get it to them. We're trying to fund 1,000 shoes this month. Go to giveshoestoday.org, and come back and join us tomorrow. We'll see you then.
Announcer: The views and opinions expressed in this broadcast may not necessarily reflect those of the American Family Association or American Family Radio.
Rob West: What if the companies in your portfolio are working against the values you're trying to live by? Hi, I'm Rob West. Faith-based investing gives Christians a way to consider not only financial returns, but also what their investment dollars are supporting. Today, Brian Mumbert joins us to explain how it works, what the research says about performance, and how investors can get started. And then it's on to your calls at 800-525-7000. That's 800-525-7000. This is Faith and Finance on American Family Radio. Biblical wisdom for your financial decisions.
Well, we always learn a lot when Brian Mumbert joins us. He's President of Timothy Plan, an underwriter of this program and a family of mutual funds and ETFs that helped pioneer faith-based investing nearly three decades ago. Brian, great to have you back.
Brian Mumbert: Great to be here, Rob.
Rob West: Now Brian, you weren't there on day one, were you?
Brian Mumbert: Ha, would have been nice. My wife Cheryl was. I've been here 20 of the years.
Rob West: Okay, yeah, a long time and now leading the charge doing some incredible work. I want to start with the basics today. For someone who may be new to this, what exactly does faith-based investing look like for Timothy Plan, and how does it differ, Brian, from a conventional approach?
Brian Mumbert: Well, it really starts with the same goal. I mean, we're all me- stewardship, wealth, for long-term growth. But the big thing, of course, about faith-based investing is it adds a value filter. So then you start by avoiding companies that profit or endorse activities that are contrary to biblical teaching. And, you know, some examples of this that are common are things like abortion, or pornography, or gambling, and other activities that might prey on the addictions of the most vulnerable in society. And then you look to seek out firms that create God-honoring products. And then ultimately, you still use a very disciplined financial analysis. And the screening comes before the portfolio construction, so the end result is you end up with a product that has competitive returns and upholds your values.
Rob West: Well, that's really helpful. And that's perhaps the biggest pushback we hear: that if you're going to screen out entire industries and limit your universe of investments, doesn't that hurt performance? What do the numbers actually show?
Brian Mumbert: Yeah, there's been some great studies done on this by some of the great partners in this space. Multiple independent studies that have really found no persistent performance penalty, and some even find better returns for the amount of risk taken. But really, removing companies that face social and regulatory headwinds can also reduce this risk. And when you look at Timothy Plan as a whole, you'll see very competitive 5- and 10-year track records against benchmarks that are secular, especially when you look at some funds like our Small-Mid Cap Growth or even our Israel Fund that exceed their benchmarks.
Rob West: Yeah, exactly right. They've done phenomenally well. Now, another concern investors have is what may be hiding beneath the surface. So, how does your research and screening team evaluate companies and make sure the investments remain aligned with your biblical standards?
Brian Mumbert: What I love about being here with Timothy Plan is the 30-plus years of experience in screening. And so there's a proprietary screening process here that focuses on these big moral issues, and the research is updated continually. And you're looking really deep to see what a company might profit or promote, and what the companies are doing at the corporate level. We leverage some third-party data as well, and these companies are reviewed periodically. Companies can change their missions and visions, as we've seen recently, they can change quickly. And then transparent reports at the end of the day let shareholders verify all the holdings that we have. And of course, you can contact us by phone or email to get a report and see how your investments align with biblical principles.
Rob West: Yeah, that's exactly right. Well, let's finish today with the actual options available to investors. So, what investment vehicles can someone use to build a diversified portfolio and stay aligned with their biblical values?
Brian Mumbert: Rob, here at Timothy Plan, we have 12 mutual funds and now 7 ETFs to choose from. The ETFs are a great low-cost option. The mutual funds have been around for a long time. Very unique funds, like even an Israel Fund as I mentioned before. Very low minimums. You can get in for as low as $1,000, or even do a $50 a month automatic investing plan that gets you access to it right away. And really, you know, at the end of the day, I always tell people, you know, I know costs are always a concern, but I'm willing to pay a little bit more for something that truly matches what I'm looking for. And in the case of faith-based investing and being a Christian, that's where I like to look.
Rob West: That's exactly right. So folks, take an inventory of your current holdings. In fact, Timothy Plan provides free screening tools for you to take advantage of that. Reach out to them, perhaps even find a Certified Kingdom Advisor who can help build a faith-based investing portfolio using the Timothy Plan solutions. You can learn more at timothyplan.com. That's timothyplan.com. Brian, thanks for your time.
Brian Mumbert: Thank you, Rob.
Rob West: We'll be right back with your questions. Stick around.
David Wollen: For your walk with Jesus, I'm David Wollen with Haven Today, inviting you to anchor your day in God's Word. The Apostle Paul once wrote to Timothy, "I am reminded of your sincere faith, a faith that dwelt first in your grandmother Lois and your mother Eunice, and now I am sure dwells in you as well." So, who were these two faithful women, Lois and Eunice? Their names are in the Bible not because of extraordinary work per se, but for ordinary work—so ordinary we don't even know exactly what it was. Simple things, probably, like reading God's Word to Timothy, praying together, living out their faith in front of him. And still today, it's often in the mundane, everyday things we do still in which God uses humble godliness to accomplish His purposes. Get more daily encouragement at haventoday.org.
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Rob West: Hey, thanks for joining us today on Faith and Finance here on American Family Radio. I'm Rob West, and looking forward to taking your calls and questions today. It was great to be joined by my friend Brian Mumbert from Timothy Plan. I'll tell you, what's happening in faith-based investing is really exciting—so much happening in terms of innovation in the space. I mean, Brian mentioned just the sheer number of ETFs that they have now, exchange-traded funds with a faith-based approach. And, you know, that didn't exist a year ago.
So there's an incredible opportunity now with just a significant number of world-class investment options like the ones at Timothy Plan for you to invest in a faith-aligned way—in a way that didn't exist anywhere close to what it looks like today. And so, you know, be sure to take a look at this. Perhaps you could head to the Timothy Plan website and screen your own portfolio. I mean, that might be a great starting place for you just to say, "What industries am I invested in with my current holdings that maybe I have no idea about? Are you heavily invested in the alcohol or things that have streaming that includes pornography? Or are you involved in pharmaceuticals that make an abortion pill?"
You know, these kinds of things so often people don't understand that they're actively invested in and owners of these companies. Now, maybe it's a small percentage, but nevertheless, stock ownership is ownership. And so it's an incredible opportunity for you just to start with, "Where am I invested today?" and then to say, "What would it look like to begin to move with these world-class investments that now exist in the mutual fund space, in the ETF space, separate account management space, where I could be more faith-aligned?" And boy, if I have that option, I'm absolutely going to take advantage of it.
Now, if you're someone who says, "You know, I really would rather delegate to an advisor who could build that kind of portfolio for me," well, great. That's an option as well, and you can head to findacack.com. About a year and a half ago, we added a feature to that CKA search at findacack.com where, when you choose a CKA in the investing space, it will ask you, "Do you want CKAs who do traditional investing or faith-based investing?" And if you choose faith-based investing, it is going to limit your search results to only Certified Kingdom Advisors who can build a faith-based investing portfolio for you. Again, that website: findacack.com.
Listen, if this is a brand-new idea to you, don't be concerned about that. That's just the reality. This is a new and emerging space. Now, it's maturing quickly, but it's still relatively new. Most people who are sincere followers of Christ have not ever thought about a faith alignment in their investments. They can now today, and so what an opportunity for you to lean into it. It's still emerging, but pretty exciting what's going on there.
All right, we want to take your questions on anything financial today. When you call 800-525-7000, whether you're giving, saving, spending, whatever it is you're thinking about today, we've got lines open. We'd love to tackle your question. Again, 800-525-7000. We will dive into those questions here in just a moment, so now is the time to call.
In the news today, a recent Bankrate survey finds that many Americans are financially unprepared for a $1,000 expense. Listen to this: just 30% of adults surveyed said they could cover that cost using savings. About one-third said they would need to borrow through a credit card, personal loan, or family and friends. The survey was 2,564 US adults; it was conducted in December 2025.
You know, for Christians, Scripture gives us a clear picture of wise preparation. Proverbs 22:3, I think of—it says, "The prudent sees danger and hides himself, but the simple go on and suffer for it." And then Genesis 41, you know the story: Joseph prepared Egypt for a coming famine. What did he do? Well, he set aside one-fifth (20%) of the harvest during the seven years of abundance, and that preparation ultimately preserved countless lives.
Wow. Biblical stewardship is not only about faithfully using what God provides today; it also means wisely preparing for tomorrow. The reality is, we all know this is true: emergencies will come. But setting aside resources now can help us face them without unnecessary financial crisis. So hope we can all heed that today. I'm talking to myself as well, and think about having some margin so we can build that emergency fund and have those sinking funds for various areas of our budget where we know replacement needs to occur—think cars, homes, appliances. Emergency fund on top of that for the unexpected—that's just prudent. It's wise stewardship. It's not a lack of trust in the Lord; it's just exercising wisdom over what God has entrusted to us. Hope that's a good reminder for you today.
Rob West: All right, calls are coming in at 800-525-7000. Call right now if you've got a question on anything financial. Let's begin in Texas today. Greg, you'll be first up. Go ahead, sir.
Greg: Hello, Mr. West. God bless you for what all of you are doing there. I'm a FaithFi partner and so enriched by what you have to say all the time. I've been involved in biblical economics for decades. Last week, you gave a lady from Texas—she was in her 70s, looking after her 80-year-old husband's affairs, and she was wisely trying to determine to make sure she had access to the bank funds, the investments, everything else, and you gave her excellent advice about making sure she was there as a joint owner and rights of survivorship.
And I had my experience with my mother and father in Las Vegas. They've been married for 45 years, and he unexpectedly died. He was predominantly the administrator of their marriage, and she was now caught off guard, flat-footed, because she had not ever been involved in the financial structure of their marriage. And unfortunately, he had bought a car just a year prior and, unfortunately, put it in his name only. So when she discovered that, she tried to say, "Well, I'll go down to the bank and get a loan and pay that car off and then move on with my life." Well, she discovered the bank that they had spent their entire life doing finances with, she had never ever established her own identity of credit—credit identity. And she had assumed that because she was an authorized user on the credit cards that that would just transfer to her, but she unfortunately found out that no, she had never ever established a credit identity.
And here she is now in her mid-70s, unable to even get a $500 loan from the bank she's dealt with all of her life because... And so I would just add to the advice that you gave about, yes, preemptively making sure you have access to the bank accounts and finances and everything, but also a lot of wives, a lot of people in the financial unit, one person may be the administrator of the funds and the other is just the excited participant, so to speak. But make sure that you have a... get with Equifax, TransUnion, and Experian to make sure that you have a personal credit identity so that you won't be... This could happen to even a young marriage.
Rob West: Yes. Wow, Greg, such great advice! I am up against a break here, but when we come back, I want to comment on what you said. Such great counsel, I want to add to it. Really appreciate your call today, sir. God bless you. We'll be right back.
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Announcer: The God Who Speaks is a powerful message on the authority of Scripture in the voices of some of the most respected theologians of our day. The most historic formula for the Christian church has been this: When the Scripture speaks, God speaks. The God Who Speaks is a 90-minute documentary which can empower Christians to share our faith and defend the authenticity of the Bible. Available at thegodwhospeaks.org or visit stream.afa.net.
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Rob West: So glad to have you with us today on Faith and Finance here on American Family Radio. I'm Rob West. We're taking your calls and questions today at 800-525-7000. That's 800-525-7000. We have three lines open. If you have a question on anything financial, go ahead and call right now. Before the break, we heard from Greg in Texas. What a gift it was to hear from Greg today. He counsels people in this area of financial stewardship and has been in the space of faith and finance for many years, and was reacting to a conversation we had with a caller last week where he was affirming the counsel around making sure that certain accounts were titled joint tenants with right of survivorship. She wanted to make sure if her husband passed before her that there would be efficiency with how certain assets would transfer and that she'd have immediate access to them and not have to wait for the probate process to play out. But Greg was adding an important additional thought, and that is around credit, which I fully agree with what Greg shared before the break.
You know, I think there's an important distinction to highlight here, and that is being an authorized user on a spouse's credit card is not the same thing as having credit in your own name. So you may benefit from the account's payment history—in fact, most accounts, when you're set up as an authorized user, you do receive their credit history, it flows through, and that's a good thing, it can help bolster your credit—but that does not necessarily mean that you've established an independent credit history or that you can keep using the account if the primary cardholder dies or the account is closed. Which is why, to Greg's point, you want both husband and wife to establish credit.
And so it's this idea that, you know, we certainly want to have unity in marriage in all areas, including financial unity—that's essential. But we also need to know what accounts exist, we need to have access, we need to have an understanding of how everything works. A team member brought up something last week that stuck with me: in our careers, we're often told to make ourselves indispensable, right? That's what's going to set you up for career success, we hear that often. But when it comes to estate planning, that's terrible advice! We don't want to be so indispensable that if something happens to us, our spouse is left in complete disarray without passwords, unaware of certain accounts, discovering at the worst possible moment that assets aren't in their name.
And so, you know, we need to be really cautious about that. By the way, being indispensable isn't great career advice either—if everything falls apart when one person is gone, then the knowledge hasn't been shared and responsibilities haven't been stewarded well. So the goal is unity, preparation, good stewardship, and that includes having credit in your own name, that includes having access, it includes having knowledge of where everything's at, how to get into it, and what would happen if the unexpected occurred. So anyway, great counsel from Greg there, and so appreciate his weighing in today. Also appreciate Greg, you being a partner. You know, our FaithFi partners who support this ministry at $35 a month are the lifeblood of this ministry. We can't do what we do as a listener-supported ministry without FaithFi partners. Partners receive each one of our magazines, studies, devotionals, and field guides as they roll out. If you want to join Greg as a partner and maybe you love the program, just head to faithfi.com/give to learn more. All right, let's head to Virginia. Brian, go ahead.
Brian: Hey, Rob. How are you doing today?
Rob West: Doing great. Appreciate your call.
Brian: Great. Thank you. I appreciate your time. I just wanted to ask, I've been truly blessed that I have the ability now—I'm within three years of retirement and I'm able to save up to the maximum amount in my Thrift Savings Plan, I'm a federal employee. And so my question is this: as I get ready to approach retirement, I was considering dropping down that contribution to save up some cash to pay the taxes on Roth conversions once my income drops after retirement. And so I wanted to ask your opinion on that, and if you think that's a good idea to drop down to where my match is to save up that money to pay the taxes so I don't have to take it out of the withdrawal, and then where to put that money if I do end up doing that.
Rob West: Yeah. Boy, great thoughts, I love the direction you're headed here. And I think the key is we want to separate how much you need to save for retirement from when it makes sense to pay taxes on a Roth conversion. So at 54 with retirement planned for 57, you know, I'd be cautious about reducing TSP contributions simply to build cash unless you feel like you have real clarity around what your ultimate savings target is and you're on track to meet or exceed it. And so I just want to make sure you've walked through that process of looking at what your expected retirement expenses are going to be, and then just really have a thoughtful assessment of your income sources. So, you know, the income stream that that TSP could generate, and then Social Security if you have it on top of that, and any other reliable income sources, just to make sure you are in fact on track.
You know, I think in terms of looking at that Roth conversion, I love that idea, and I think, you know, considering partial conversions over several years does make a lot of sense, especially when you're in those years where your income has dropped and you're not yet paying any kind of—having any required minimums. You also haven't started to take Medicare yet, so you don't have the risk of the IRMAA. You'd be in a really great spot there. You'd obviously be pre-Social Security as well, which I think would be helpful also. So I think in terms of kind of the general direction there, I think that makes sense. But do you feel like you're on track with what you've already accumulated?
Brian: I do. And with the fact of having a pension built up, and then they pay an offset for the first five years of your retirement too, I would not need to draw much if any from my Thrift Savings Plan traditional account, and my lifestyle is such that I really don't need to withdraw much at all from that anyway. So, and I could probably even do without it. So yeah, it looked like a good window from 57 to 62 to do some conversions.
Rob West: Yeah, I like that a lot. I think you're right on track there. So since you've got that pension, you don't expect to need the TSP, setting that money aside for the Roth conversion, I'd just treat that as short-term tax-payment money, not retirement investment money. So I'm talking high-yield savings, treasury money market fund, short-term T-bills. You've got that money safe, liquid, you know, and then if you plan to convert $50,000, maybe an estimated $12k in reserves to pay the tax on it. But I love the plan. We'll be right back.
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Announcer: You don't have to be like the 10 that said it can't be done, it's too big, the giants are too big. We need to be like Joshua and Caleb and say, "You know what? There are giants. This is a massive problem when you have a nation that is ignorant of the principles that produce a free society. Start where you can. It's the only way I know, it's a little bit at a time." Join Walker Wildmon and Rick Green as they tackle today's issues from a biblical and a constitutional perspective. At the Core, 1:00 PM Central weekdays on AFR.
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Rob West: Great to have you with us today on Faith & Finance here on American Family Radio. I'm Rob West. We're taking your questions today on anything financial, helping you think about stewarding God's money God's way. That's right, you and I are money managers for the King of Kings. That's a really important job. It's a really high calling. We look to God's word. Guess what? There's over 2,350 verses that deal with money and possessions, many of them around how money can compete with our hearts for devotion to God. You know, Jesus is our ultimate treasure. God owns everything. You and I, we're stewards. We don't have ownership rights; we have stewardship responsibilities. Money is a tool; faithfulness is the goal. What does faithfulness look like today? What is my next faithful step? That should be the lens with which we see management of God's resources as stewards on a daily basis. Our goal here at FaithFi, we want to help you do that every day as you live, and give, and spend for God's glory, for your enjoyment. Part of this is for us to enjoy, and yes, to provide, but we also give and we invest in a way that loves our neighbor, and promotes the common good, and helps the vulnerable, and extends and expands the gospel to the ends of the earth. What a privilege it is as money managers for the King of Kings. Well, each day we want to take your very practical questions as you give, save, and spend. And so if you've got a question, call right now: 800-525-7000. We'd love to hear from you today. Let's go to Ohio. Julia, how can I help?
Julia: Yes, hi! Thank you for taking my call. I love all your advices. It's been such a blessing and of impact in my life and our life.
Rob West: That's great.
Julia: Yeah, I have a question today. We have 14-year-olds and they just got into freshman high school. And, you know, over the birthday and Christmas money and things like that, the kids have about like $500, I guess, of their own money. And now that they're in high school, you know, we should probably let them start like, I guess, fully deciding how to manage their money, per se. And, you know, paying them for chores and things. And I feel like we started it, but we never really stuck to a plan. And so I was wondering, what do you think is a wise plan about paying them for chores and mowing the lawn, and also just, you know, I mean, do we give them complete freedom over their money? And things that they want to buy is typically, you know, clothes and basketball shoes. But we just got them a cell phone that costs like $10 a month. I mean, you know, do we tell them they pay for that? You know, how do we get a plan and really try to stick with it through now till, you know, when they leave the house, per se?
Rob West: Yeah. Boy, I love that you're thinking about this right now. What a great opportunity, Julia. You know, with teenagers in the home, you have a wonderful chance to teach them not just what to do with money, but what money is actually for. And I'll get real practical here in a second, but I'm reminded of Joshua 4, when the Israelites stacked stones after crossing the Jordan. You know, that wasn't a strange ritual. It was intentional. God wanted future generations to ask, "What do these stones mean?" so parents could tell the story of what God had done. I think money should work the same way. We don't just want to give our kids a formula: save this much, and invest this much, and have this much in emergency funds. Yes, those are important, but those should flow out of the bigger story of who God is and what he's done for us. So when we understand as a starting point that God owns it all, and that we are stewards, then money finds its proper place. We don't save for ultimate security. We, you know, don't spend for fulfillment. We don't give out of guilt. God becomes our treasure, and then we save, spend, and give as an act of faithful stewardship. And I think that could be a great kind of starting place, is just for you to provide a framework for them to think about money management through a biblical worldview. Now, they're going to quickly say, "Okay, yeah, but what should we do?" And that's important too. But I think you reinforcing these bigger ideas of a biblical worldview of money and the role of money in our lives—and really how money can be dangerous when it becomes an idol. You know, the love of money is the root of all evils, the Bible tells us. But money itself is a good gift from God to be used for our enjoyment, and to provide for ourselves and over time their families, and to give and invest in a way that promotes the common good. You know, but they need to have that. They're not going to hear that anywhere else. Now, in terms of where they go from here, I love the idea of you all helping them decide, you know, what to do with the money they're bringing in. I mean, our approach was always to say, listen, there are minimum expectations for you to be a part of our household, and there are certain things you need to do. You're going to need to keep your room clean and your bed made when you, you know, leave for school in the morning. Um, there's a chore chart that says, you know, and maybe you rotate it every week, but here's what your responsibility is. You're not going to get paid for this. This is just a part of you being a part of our family, and we all pitch in, and, and, you know what, we learn the value and the importance of having, you know, keeping things maintained. But then I think there are those other, maybe separate tasks that you and your husband would carve out to say, "Hey, if you want to do these things, this is above and beyond the regular chores, we'll pay you for it." And, you know what, you get a certain amount based on the task, and by the way, you have to reach a certain level of excellence in doing it or the compensation is not going to, you know, fully comply. And it may be something like, you know, maybe it is washing the car if that's not, you know, a part of their chore chart, or just something above and beyond, maybe it's raking leaves. You know, it could be any number of things, and that's where you have the ability to do, you know, something that's a little above and beyond. They can work for it. Now, maybe alongside that, you do an allowance, you know, a certain amount per week that they get automatically. And, you know, then you start to talk about, okay, out of everything that comes in, what does it look like to give first, save second, and maybe you have, you know, something that they know they're saving for. I think it's always helpful when it's a known item and it's visible, and everybody knows what it is. And then the rest is left for spending, and maybe it's those extra things. You know, you cover their shoes, but only up to a certain amount, and, you know, only a couple of times a year. And if they want to buy the shoes that are not $80, but $150, you know, that's got to come out of their extra, you know, earnings, either because they're working beyond the chore chart or because they're saving up their allowance, you know, because they want to buy something a little nicer. And so I think, you know, that's a process that you can begin to work out. Now, alongside that, I love the idea of you getting them started in investing. Maybe you open a custodial account for them or just open a regular brokerage account and introduce them to what it looks like to starting to invest systematically. Um, you know, I was just running the numbers the other day. If you put a $1,000 contribution into account, uh, you know, when a child is, you know, like, I think it was like 8 years old, and it grows for until they're 60, there'd be over a million dollars in there if you don't add anything else to it, just in the growth of the investments. I mean, that's incredible, and you could start to teach them the power of compounding. As they get older, you can also turn over certain expenses, you know, on a project basis for them to manage. One of the things we did in our household is we said, "Okay, kids, you guys get our eating out budget for the month, and we want you to sit down around the table. We're not going to be present. You guys figure out, here's the dollar amount, you guys figure out how we're going to use it." And it was so much fun to listen to them in the other room, like negotiating with each other, like, "Well, when we go out to lunch after church, I want to be able to go here." "Well, we can't go there, that's too expensive." And it was just a real, you know, life lesson for them to say, "Listen, there's limited resources. We want to be able to do certain things, and so we're not going to be able to do everything." I know one family that turned over—and this was kids that I think were 16 and 17—they turned over their vacation fund and said, "Listen, you guys get a certain portion of this to allocate how we're going to spend this money while we're on vacation. We're praying for you. Good luck." And, you know, I mean, the life lesson there. I think the other thing is in the giving space. Maybe you put money in a donor-advised fund, you give it away together. I'm up against a break. I want to get your thoughts on this after the break. Stay right there.
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Rob West: You know, more is caught than taught. So we need to model faithful stewardship for the next generation. That starts at home, well before they leave to become adults on their own. Julia, I threw a lot at you there before the break. Give me your thoughts on all that.
Julia: Oh yeah, I think, um, yeah, I agree with all that. I guess I just needed it kind of, uh, uh, written out, and I I uh wrote down what you said. Um, yeah, I I agree with the whole caught and taught. Um, we are, you know, debt-free and things, and I mean, um, they see us going to church, and they're starting to ask, "Well, how much do you give to church?" You know, um, and helping Grandma and things like that, you know. Um, I didn't know about the Trump account that anyone could open one.
Rob West: Yeah, so you As long as they're under 18, you can open a Trump account, and essentially you put in after-tax dollars. You can put in up to $5,000 uh per year, and then that would grow tax-deferred, and then they'd have something, you know, down the road uh that they could uh pull out in retirement or or at least, you know, much further down the road. Uh, you can check it out at trumpaccounts.gov, trumpaccounts.gov. Let me do this though, Julia. To your point about kind of having a roadmap, I'm going to send you a book. How many kids do you have?
Julia: Oh, well, I have twins. They're 14.
Rob West: Okay, incredible. Yeah, we have uh twin girls that are 17, so uh what a gift that is. Um, I'm going to send you two copies of Dr. Art Rainer's book, The Money Challenge for Teens. It's a great resource to walk through with your teenagers. It'll help them understand what the Bible says about money while they're young, but it'll actually give you kind of a step-by-step roadmap on the practical side of money management as well. Again, it's called The Money Challenge for Teens by our friend Dr. Art Rainer, and uh we'll put two copies in the mail to you, okay?
Julia Oh, great. Thank you so much.
Rob West: All right, you're welcome, Julia. Hang on the line. My team will get your information, and we'll get those books right out to you. Lord bless you.
Rob West: Let's go to Tennessee. Hi, Charlotte. How can we help?
Charlotte: Um, I wanted to ask, what is the best way to protect my mom's money, and also giving her still giving her her independence? Um, she and I have I moved in with her three years ago to take care of her, and in the will, I am the executor. Um, as far as her bank account, I think she has a a POD with me, my oldest sister who has passed away, and my brother.
Rob West: Okay.
Charlotte: Um, I'm not sure how that will work out. And also, we are thinking about She wants to move into an independent living, and they're extremely expensive. Um, her Social Security check is $2,800 a month, and to uh help pay for that, she has a house she left to me in the will. But I was thinking it would be good if we could just rent the home out to help her pay for the rest of, you know, the fee for the independent living. Does that make sense?
Rob West: Yeah, it certainly could. I mean, who would become the the person managing that? Would that fall on you to be the property manager?
Charlotte: Yes, I'm sure it would. So...
Rob West: Yeah, so you just need to be ready to become a landlord. I mean, that's that's not an insignificant responsibility. I'm sure you have plenty on your plate right now, and so you just need to understand, you know, what's involved. Um, but is there anybody else that can help you with that?
Charlotte: No, not really. I do have my plate full, so.
Rob West: Okay. So, I think that's just a real consideration. But let's back up there. So, you know, I think ultimately, there's a couple of thoughts here. Um, you know, I think first of all is just recognize um when it comes to your mom, you know, uh being named executor is not enough to manage or protect her money while she's alive. So, your role as executor begins after death. So, you really need to distinguish that role from other legal instruments like a financial power of attorney, which can authorize someone to act during your mom's lifetime. Do you know if if that exists?
Charlotte: That does not. And that's something that I would like to do, but I felt she's kind of she wants her independence. She doesn't want that taken away.
Rob West: Right. Yeah, the the challenge is that, you know, that doesn't in any way negate her um her independence. This is really in the event she's incapacitated. Somebody needs the legal authority while she's still alive but unable to make decisions on her behalf. Somebody needs to be able to step in and make legal and financial decisions for her. Um, everybody needs that, and and that's not a matter of taking away her independence. It's just a matter of being, you know, have wise planning in place. Um, you know, I think the other thing is to review the bank account and the estate documents probably with an elder law attorney um, you know, because we've got some of you on the accounts. We just need to understand. Uh, you believe that's a POD. Is that right, payable on death?
Charlotte: Yes, sir.
Rob West: Okay. Yeah, so that just means that at death, that's going to pass outside of probate, and it sounds like it's probably going to be split three ways between the three of you, and it will pass immediately uh to you all. And so, you know, that that's certainly appropriate if that's what the way she wants that done. Um, you know, I would...
Charlotte: My oldest sister... I'm sorry. My oldest my oldest sister has passed away. Ah, okay. So, sorry. So, will that automatically go between my brother and I?
Rob West: Yeah, but it really needs to be updated. So, I think, you know, this is where as life changes, we need to update PODs and TODs, so you'd have transfer on death on, you know, fine- um certain accounts like your bank account, or or a POD. They essentially act the same way. You could have a TOD on the house, and then you have beneficiary designations for like retirement accounts and investment accounts. Uh, they all essentially act where it would bypass probate. But yeah, at at someone's passing, those all really need to be updated. It's easy to do, but it's going to just create a lot more simplicity. Um, you also need to check whether the will and the account designations agree. So, if your mom intends for the assets to be divided among her children, um, or, you know, a deceased uh child's descendants... So, did your sister have have kids?
Charlotte: Yes, and she my mother left her a certain amount uh in the will.
Rob West: Okay. All right. So, you just want the attorney to confirm that the account titling and the beneficiary designations accomplish what she intends. Uh, a will alone won't control a joint account with right of survivorships or an account with a a POD on it. And so, again, we want to make sure that that reflects what she's intending. And if her intention is she's already carved out money for her grandkids uh of your sister, then she would want to update the POD so that it's now 50/50 between you and your brother. Um, there's also some other tools beyond the financial power of attorney like a healthcare surrogate, which in the same way the power of attorney covers financial and legal decisions, the healthcare surrogate would cover medical decisions, again, in the event she's incapacitated. You would also want to make sure you have a living will where she expresses her end-of-life decisions as well. Uh, with regard to the ability to fund um, you know, the uh the uh the the living, independent living that is costly, uh you just need to make sure, you know, you've got the $2,800 a month in Social Security, and, you know, if you were to move toward renting that house, you just need to understand that could provide income, but you need to know what that net rent is going to be after property taxes, insurance, maintenance, vacancies, repairs, management costs. Um, so you becoming the landlord is possible, but there's going to be a lot of work, and you just need to know there's potential family conflicts. And maybe that's not an issue, but you just need to know. Um, and, you know, if you manage the property, you're going to have to have a power of attorney because you're going to want to act on your mom's behalf and make sure your mom's money is separate, and you maintain records so that, you know, you can explain what decisions were made and what you're spending money on. Um, you're also going to want a CPA to look at the tax tax consequences of renting versus selling, because the other option is you all sell this house, or your mom does, and then you take the proceeds, and you invest it with the purpose of generating passive income that doesn't require you to become a landlord, that then we could draw an income from the investments that, when added to Social Security, might be, you know, what's needed to fund the independent living. But you're just going to need to make sure that's viable.
Charlotte: You know, yeah. Okay. So, the the power of the financial power of attorney...
Rob West: Mm-hmm.
Charlotte: ...does not take her independence away, um, you said. But does that give me um, will I be able to have like access to all of her bank accounts and all that?
Rob West: Yes. Well, it it depends on the account. Um, how are you listed on the accounts currently?
Charlotte: Um, just a POD. Like I I take care of all the bills now. I have access to everything. But in case of her becoming incapacitated, we do need a financial POA, is that right?
Rob West: Uh, yes. So, you're going to need that uh that financial POA, power of attorney, for you to be able to step in. Um, and and it can still be effective while your mother is still fully capable, depending on how it's written. So, an immediate an immediately effective POA would allow you to act now, um, and that would allow you to act as landlord while she's not incapacitated. But the important distinction is that it's durable, which means the authority continues through incapacitation. Uh, it doesn't mean the authority begins only at incapacitation, but the durable power of attorney covers both now and in the future if she's unable to act for herself. But you would just have to make it clear for her to her that you're only going to act on things you and she agree on, like if you were to become the landlord, and/or when she becomes incapacitated and is not able to act for herself. But an estate planning attorney can go over all of this, and I think that's really the next step for you.
Charlotte: Thank you so much. You you've helped me tremendously.
Rob West: Well, you're welcome. I appreciate your call. You sound like a wonderful daughter, and Lord bless you, Charlotte. Call anytime. Well, folks, uh that's going to do it for us today. Big thanks to my team, Taylor and Adam and Patty and Pat and everybody here at FaithFi. Hey, uh this month only, what a gift we have to be able to uh partner with our friends at Buckner Shoes for Orphan Souls. Every $15 given provides a new pair of shoes for a child in a part of the world where they don't have access to shoes. It's going to cover the cost of shoes, socks, and to get it to them. We're trying to fund 1,000 shoes this month. Go to giveshoestoday.org, and come back and join us tomorrow. We'll see you then.
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