Rob West: Zechariah 4:10 reminds us, "Do not despise these small beginnings, for the Lord rejoices to see the work begin." Hi, I'm Rob West. When money is tight, giving more, saving more, or paying down debt can feel out of reach, but financial progress doesn't always begin with a giant leap. Sometimes faithfulness starts with one small step at a time. Today, Brian Holtz joins us with four practical ways to begin creating margin. And then it's on to your calls at 800-525-7000. This is Faith and Finance on American Family Radio, biblical wisdom for your financial decisions.
Well, it's always a privilege to have my friend Brian Holtz back with us. Brian is the CEO of Compass Financial Ministry, founded by our good friend and former host of this program, Howard Dayton. Compass helps people around the world grow as faithful stewards by applying biblical wisdom to the way they earn, spend, save, and give. Brian, great to have you back.
Brian Holtz: It's always great to be here, Rob.
Rob West: Brian, when money is tight, it can feel difficult to make progress, especially when you want to give generously and save wisely. What encouragement would you offer someone who feels like there just isn't enough margin to do both?
Brian Holtz: Yeah, Rob, that really is tough. You know, whether they're in that position because of past choices or forces outside of our control, gaining that first little bit of margin seems to be the hardest. So, I'd love to share four tactical moves that can spark that first bit of progress.
Step one is to start with prayer. Now, I know that doesn't sound tactical, but it is. James 1:5 promises that God gives wisdom to those who ask. Tell Him that you want to follow His ways, but that you've hit a roadblock and you need His help, and He will respond. Now, we'd all love for it to be extra funds in our bank account, but it's usually fresh insight. You'll start to spot new options and meet wise people, but one way or another, God will answer those prayers.
Rob West: Yeah, that's well said and absolutely right—that we need to invite God into our financial lives, and we often miss that step. All right, what's step two?
Brian Holtz: So second, people need to think smaller, but longer. Slim margins can certainly delay the quick wins and the progress we really want to feel like we're making, but they don't stop us from making steady, long-term progress. Maybe you want to give 10% for all the right reasons, but you can't. Well, start with 1%, or maybe even less, and work your way up.
Remember, Jesus praised the widow who gave two tiny copper coins not because of the value, but because of the heart she had behind it. Same thing with saving. Tuck away $5 or $10 a week if that's all you can do, but tiny steps will still cover that same mile. It just might take more of those steps.
Rob West: That's well said. So, start with prayer, and then think smaller, but longer. And what's step three?
Brian Holtz: Step three is really to aim the windfalls that you have at making monthly or weekly margin. So, think about tax refunds or that fifth paycheck month that you get, maybe a rebate from something you bought at the hardware store, and use them strategically to drop monthly costs.
So, maybe you knock out a small bill that frees up $10 or $20 a month every month, like paying off your phone or maybe a department store credit card that you used one time. Before you tackle those big debts, knock off the little ones. That first freed-up payment becomes fuel for the next steps that you want to take.
Rob West: Yeah, it's almost like a mini snowball method. Small, focused steps, but building momentum over time, right?
Brian Holtz: Absolutely. And that's the play when money's tight. The fourth and final step is shopping with a strategy. Stock up on the essentials when they're on sale, pay top-priority bills first, and trim out the non-essentials.
So, if chicken's half-price today, grab two packs instead of one, but only if you're going to actually use them. Pay your housing bill before you go to the extras, and maybe that means some months you have to skip the streaming service, but that's better than missing out on a rent payment. And wants generally cost more than needs. Choosing needs before wants honors God and grows that margin like we're trying to do.
Rob West: Really great suggestions. I know Compass has a resource that is specifically designed, Brian, to help people navigate a tight budget, right?
Brian Holtz: We do. It's a video study called Making Ends Meet, and it's designed to help people find that first little bit of margin and begin their financial discipleship journey step-by-step, even when they're starting at the bottom.
Rob West: And you can find that resource along with many others to help you steward God's money wisely. Just simply head to compassfinancialministry.org. That's compassfinancialministry.org. Brian, great to have you with us today.
Brian Holtz: My pleasure, Rob.
Rob West: That's Brian Holtz, CEO of Compass Financial Ministry. Financial progress rarely happens overnight, so start small, stay faithful, and let each wise decision create a little more margin for the next. Back with your questions after this. Stick around.
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Rob West: Hey, thanks for joining us today on Faith & Finance here on American Family Radio. I'm Rob West. Well, we're going to begin taking your phone calls here in just a moment, which means now is the time to call 800-525-7000. We've got lines open today, they will fill up. So go ahead and get your question in the queue as you give, save, and spend. And you're wondering, how do I approach this particular question I have, this thing I'm wrestling with? And is there a biblical perspective on it? How do I move forward practically? What does faithfulness look like for me? You know, that's our goal, that's the measure, is what does it look like to be faithful with what God entrusts to us. He entrusts to each differing amounts, it all belongs to Him. Our charge, our task, faithfulness with what we've been given. Once we give our lives to Jesus, it's really all about stewardship, stewarding everything God has entrusted to us. The very breath in our lungs, our skills, our abilities, God's word, our relationships, our time, yes, God's money, the treasure that we have the privilege of managing on behalf of the King of kings. But what does faithfulness look like in each and every situation? Well, we have to start with God's word and we've got to go to Him in prayer, and then we seek wise counsel. And we hope in part that's what we can do each day as we come alongside you and lift your arms and give wind to your sails, give you some practical, wise counsel rooted in biblical wisdom. Never wagging a finger at you, always empathetic and understanding we're all on a journey, we all make mistakes, we live in a fallen world, we're going to have struggles and challenges, but we want to be able to be that source of wise counsel. So as you think about debt repayment and you think about preparing the next steward, and investing for God's glory and giving generously, and even seeking, you know, taking Social Security and wondering when the right time is for that, any of those questions and more, we'd love for you to call right now at 800-525-7000. Again, that's 800-525-7000.
Rob West: Before we dive into those questions today, we'll start with the news. Gas prices surged ahead of Labor Day, making this year's holiday weekend the most expensive ever at the pump, that's according to AAA. The national average for regular gasoline reached $4.15 a gallon on Monday, topping the previous Labor Day record of $3.82 back in 2012. Although prices are below May's 2026 peak of $4.56, they're still about 30% higher than a year ago when drivers paid an average of $3.20. Diesel prices also hit a record, reaching $5.90 a gallon compared with $3.71 last year. Elevated crude oil prices and global supply disruptions are, of course, driving much of this increase. Oil shipments through the Strait of Hormuz have fallen sharply amid the conflict in Iran, while refinery disruptions in the Middle East and Russia have further tightened supplies. US gasoline inventories were also about 6% below their average in late August. Some relief may be coming as refiners transition to cheaper winter-blend gasoline. The EPA allowed winter-grade fuel to be sold beginning September 1st, that's earlier than usual. That's all part of an effort to increase supply and reduce prices. Still, future gas prices will largely depend on global oil supply and whether disruptions ease. I know the President is working hard to get the situation with Iran under control, get the strait fully open, and get oil back to a more manageable level, which obviously will cause gas prices to fall considerably. We'll certainly keep an eye on it. I know things are tight, that means questions about how do I manage my budget. It leads to, you know, this dramatic percentage of Americans today that can't even cover a $1,000 unexpected expense apart from using some credit cards. We've got to reign in spending in times like this. I realize that's easier said than done. We're here to help. So any questions today, go ahead and call right now: 800-525-7000.
Rob West: Let's begin today in Texas. Harold, how can I help?
Harold: Uh, I am dating a woman who is very financially difficult. She has for years made horrible decisions with her finances. Family, friends, I've tried to help her several times. She keeps making very bad financial choices and digging herself into a hole every time. I'm at my wit's end because I want to help her, I want it to be good, but I don't want to enable and I don't want to eventually get myself into a financial difficult situation with her.
Rob West: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I appreciate your transparency on that, Harold, and I think this is a really important question. Here's maybe just some thoughts as you process this. I would say first, financial irresponsibility in dating shouldn't automatically end a relationship, but it shouldn't be ignored either. You know, dating is the season for discernment. And money, and the way we handle money, often reveals deeper issues because we know that money issues are heart issues. It's really the most clear expression of what we value and where we place our trust, and what our priorities are. It points to character and priorities and self-control and honesty, and I'm not saying, you know, necessarily those are an issue here, but I think we just need to understand that money issues point to deeper, heart-level issues. Remember Jesus said, "One who is faithful in a very little is also faithful in much." And Proverbs 21 we read, "The plans of the diligent surely lead to abundance." So I think we need to pay attention, not merely to how much this person earns—and you haven't mentioned that—but really to whether they're willing to live within their means. Are they willing to make a plan? Are they absolutely committed to repay obligations? Are they open to seeking wise counsel? These are all characteristics of a faithful steward. And I would say to the extent some of those are not there, I think that should just be something you take note of and lean into. I think the other piece here is, and maybe you've already done this, I'd like to know, but I think having an open conversation about spending, and debt, and giving, and saving, and financial goals is important. You know, the biggest concern may not be past mistakes, but if there's an unwillingness to change. You know, someone who says, "I've handled money poorly in the past, but I want to grow" is very different from someone who dismisses the problem altogether. And I would just finish by saying, you know, don't assume marriage will fix it. Financial habits often become sources of significant tension after marriage. It's the most common problem that's cited by divorcees. Again, I think often the money issues are symptomatic of something deeper, nevertheless, it's the money issues that are cited as the primary source of conflict. So, maybe I'll just finish by saying move slowly, watch for genuine fruit over time, seek counsel from mature believers who know both of you, have open and honest conversations, especially if, you know, you're moving toward and talking about marriage. And, you know, the goal is you're not looking for financial perfection here, but you are looking for humility and responsibility and a shared desire to steward what ultimately belongs to God and not to you or your girlfriend. But give me your thoughts on all that, Harold.
Harold: I completely agree. The thing is, I've spoken with family and friends. I've spoken with her father, who's helped her considerably and still does to an extent. And she, so this is not something new. It's many, many attempts have been tried to work with her over the years—family and friends and the things that you've just mentioned. And I've definitely tried, too. And so, this is one of the reasons I'm calling, is it's gotten to such an extent that I'm left battling a heart decision and a financial decision like this.
Rob West: I get it. Let's do this. I've got one thing I want to offer as part of a path forward. Let's do that after the break. Stay right there. We'll be right back.
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Rob West: Great to have you with us today on Faith & Finance here on American Family Radio. We've got a few lines open, we're taking your calls and questions today at 800-525-7000. Again, that number 800-525-7000. Before the break, we were talking to Harold in Texas. Harold is 46, working full time. He's dating a lady where she has demonstrated in the past some poor decision-making around money management. This is an ongoing pattern. He's talked to her parents about it, he's talked to her about it extensively, not seeing a lot of signs that there's a desire to change. And I was sharing before the break that I think that's the key idea, is that, you know, we're not looking for anything related to the past mistakes necessarily. That's not my primary concern. I think the bigger issue is, you know, do you have somebody that's saying, "Even if I've made mistakes, I want to grow," and "I understand my role as a steward," and, "you know, I'm willing to approach this with humility and responsibility and ultimately a desire to be found faithful" as a steward of God's resources. And I think although this wouldn't, I think, automatically be a cause to end the relationship, it could be at some point because money issues are heart issues, and this is a period for discernment. And this could create real challenges down the road. So I think your willingness to be honest here with her, maybe even at a level you've not been before about your concerns and, you know, your desire to see a different path moving forward so that you all are preparing for marriage—because that's really what dating is, it's not just for fun, I mean we're dating to find the spouse that God would have for us.
I'd be willing, Harold, to provide a Certified Christian Financial Counselor for you to make available to her. Maybe you participate in that, or maybe you don't. I realize, you know, it's not like you're engaged yet or married. But I think having somebody who could be a third party, who's not, you know, you or her family or friends, somebody who could come in and help her set up a spending plan, and maybe that's the catalyst to her setting a new course. You said something around her parents' assistance that made me think—and I might be reading this wrong—but perhaps even part of what's going on here is their desire to love her, but also coming in and rescuing her, has inadvertently caused some of these negative cycles around money management to continue. Is that part of the challenge here, do you think?
Harold: I believe so. There is an aspect of that I agree with. And I know parents can do this, but at the same time, you need to help without enabling.
Rob West: That's right. Yeah, you're exactly right. And out of a desire to love our kids, we can inadvertently kind of stunt their growth, so to speak, in financial maturity because, you know, they don't develop the disciplines, they don't learn from difficult situations, and they just don't have to correct, you know, mistakes that are ongoing because they can just rely on mom and dad to come in and rescue them. Do you think she'd be willing to take advantage of a Certified Christian Financial Counselor to help her put a spending plan together, to assess reality and maybe get pointed in a different direction?
Harold: I'd be happy to accept and offer that to her. Sadly, I'm not sure if she would agree or not, considering what I've already been through with her, her family, her friends. This has been an ongoing thing. It's almost like dealing with somebody in recovery from an addiction of sorts, they just keep coming back to the abuse.
Rob West: Yeah. Well, and that would be another telltale sign that perhaps she doesn't have a desire to get on a different path, and that, you know, would result in some hard decisions that you would have to make. So, we'll make that available. Obviously, we'll see whether she wants to proceed with that. I'm also going to send you two copies of Master Your Money, the classic by Ron Blue that gives both the biblical worldview of money management as well as the practical steps around giving, saving, spending, investing—all of the key issues. And that'll be our gift to you. You can read through it with her, maybe you guys do it together, a chapter at a time. But I think providing the Certified Christian Financial Counselor—we'll cover the cost of that and these two books. Hopefully that'll make it clear one way or the other what the path forward is, okay?
Harold: Thank you.
Rob West: All right. God bless you, Harold. Thanks for calling, and we'll be praying that the Lord makes it clear where you go from here. Let's go to Arkansas. Hi, Kevin. Go ahead.
Kevin: So, yeah, like you said, I'm in Arkansas. I've been a pastor for about 26 years, and my wife and I—I pastor full time, my wife works full time—and we've never owned our own home. We've always lived in a parsonage. And we don't have any debt other than about $4,000 on a car, so we're pretty thankful for that. But we've been offered a place. It's 1.7 acres, it's got a shop on it, it's got an old mobile home on it that's been added onto, and due to that, we can't really find a loan because of the mobile home. We don't have really any savings, but I do have somewhere around 200 to I think 240,000 in retirement. I think about 70 of that is in an annuity, another 140 is in an old retirement that's tied to the church I pastored 10 years ago. And so my question is, you know, I'm looking for advice on can I borrow against that retirement? And is that a good idea, or if I can do that when I roll that over from my old plan into a new one, what kind of plan should I be looking for?
Rob West: Yeah. Is that a 403(b), Kevin?
Kevin: The annuity?
Rob West: Oh, it's an annuity?
Kevin: Yeah, well, the one—just last year I rolled 70 or 80,000 into the annuity from that plan. The other one, I honestly, I should have looked it up before I called, but I don't remember what it is other than it was an old plan through our denomination.
Rob West: Yeah, it's okay. You would have to ask the annuity company for an explanation of loan availability. Often they do not offer any kind of loans. 403(b)s typically do offer loans, IRAs do not. Regardless, though, that would not be my preferred plan for you all moving forward. Even if you didn't contribute any more for a season so you could accelerate your savings, I wouldn't want you to go into this without any savings and having to borrow from your retirement plan. If you separated from employment, it would all be taxable if you couldn't repay it. You know, at your age, you'd be subject to a 10% penalty. So, I'm not a big fan of that approach. Let's finish up though after this break, stay right there.
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Rob West: Great to have you with us today on Faith & Finance here on American Family Radio. We're taking your calls and questions today on anything financial. You've got a question as you give? You want to give wisely? As you save and invest for the future and build your emergency fund? As you spend and try to live within your means and build a spending plan and seek to be wise in how you steward what God has entrusted to you? We're here for you. We'd love to take those questions. We've got lines open. The team is standing by. Call right now, 800-525-7000. That's 800-525-7000. By the way, that phone number goes all the way back to Larry Burkett. Isn't that fun? We've had that number since the '80s and it's just traveled with us from Larry to Howard, and now on to this program. So, call it today, maybe with some nostalgia, 800-525-7000.
Rob West: Before the break, we were talking to Kevin in Arkansas. Kevin is a pastor of 26 years. He's 51, his wife's 49, they both are working. He is looking to buy their first home. They're going to get a trailer that's a little older, that's they believe undervalued, but it's hard to get a loan on that type of dwelling just given the situation there. And they're wondering about with no savings, should they borrow against retirement?
And I'm really not a big fan of that approach. It may not even be available depending on what type of account it is. But, you know, the challenge is a qualifying loan has to be repaid, leaving employment can create repayment and tax complications because it becomes all taxable income while the money's out of the account. It's obviously not growing for your future, which is why it's there in the first place. You may get a 10% early withdrawal penalty exception as a first-time homebuyer, but that doesn't eliminate the income tax. So, I'm just not a fan of that. I would prefer if you're trying to build savings a little quicker to make this purchase, maybe you temporarily stop new contributions while you're doing that, but I wouldn't borrow from what's already there.
I would also say about the mobile home, clearly lenders are reluctant to finance certain situations. That $25,000 discount that you mentioned is a bargain only if the home is sound, the title is clear, the cost fits your budget. I mean, I'd make sure all three of those are true. And you could explore manufactured home financing specifically first. FHA has a Title I program that finances eligible new or used manufactured homes, including some on leased lots. So you'd have to find a HUD-approved housing counselor to help you identify lenders and determine where the property qualifies. I'd much prefer that option.
But I'm also slightly concerned about you getting into a home, even one that is quote-unquote a good value, without any kind of margin or savings, because we know homes, especially manufactured homes that are a little older, sold at a discount, are going to need some maintenance and upkeep, and you're taking on a lot of property with it. And I just don't want you to be squeezed without any kind of emergency funds to fall back on. So I'd probably just continue on your current track, and let's look for ways to build savings and make that purchase out of cash versus the retirement account. I realize that's easier said than done, and you guys would like a place of your own, but I just don't love the path forward here given the no savings and the fact that it would require borrowing from retirement. Is that helpful, Kevin?
Kevin: Thank you. Yeah. Yeah, it is, and I do appreciate your time.
Rob West: Absolutely, sir. Lord bless you and thanks for your call today. 800-525-7000 is the number to call. We'd love to tackle your financial questions today, help you think about managing God's money God's way in light of biblical wisdom.
You know, as we talk about borrowing, you know, there's some rules we need to heed when it comes to borrowing. You know, there's a number of them to think about. And when it comes to debt, as we look at it through the lens of biblical wisdom, we have to recognize, first, borrowing is not a sin. I mean, let's just get that out there. But there are clear warnings in scripture around debt, starting with the change in relationship, master-slave relationship. And so, we're obligating future income, and by the way, we repay debt back after tax. So we borrow, we pay interest, then we have to earn money, pay taxes on it, and then we pay back the debt. And so you kind of get hit from both sides with the interest accruing on the debt and the after-tax dollars being used for repayment.
But we've also got the change in relationship. But some of those rules I think for borrowing are really important. We've talked about these in the past with Ron Blue, who, these are a part of Master Your Money. But first of all, spousal unity is absolutely essential. You know, I think we can get caught into a situation where we're making decisions and we're just not on the same page. And I think in marriage, if we're not on the same page and we're borrowing, that's a showstopper. We stop right there. We don't borrow unless we have unity. Now, doesn't mean we don't continue to try to work through it and hear each other out, and what's the concern, and all of those things, but I think going ahead without spousal unity, I think is a non-starter.
Second, are we robbing God of an opportunity to work? Now, the Lord is going to do what He is going to do. We're not going to interfere with that. But I think we're just so quick to come up with other solutions rather than just stopping, being patient, inviting God into our financial lives through prayer, asking for wisdom, slowing down. Often the financial circumstances I think are just a clear indicator of where the Lord may not be leading. Because we know that we need to be stewards, faithful stewards of what God has entrusted to us, and therefore, if God is leaning toward something, He's going to provide the means to do it. And so, at the very least, it may be not a no, but maybe it's a not right now. And maybe the finances are that first indicator that we need to slow down and wait, hit the pause button, pray, save, be diligent, cut back, all of those things. So, we can rob God of an opportunity to work. We need to make sure we have spousal unity.
We also need to make sure that the economic return is greater than the financial cost. What does that mean? Well, it just means we really only want to borrow, when possible, for appreciating assets. Now, this certainly what Kevin was calling about is going to fit into that situation because we should have a property where the land lot and the mobile home appreciate over time, hopefully. Certainly with a single-family home, that's normally true. A business, that would be true. Not true when we're going out and just spending on lifestyle, which is why that's a non-starter. Not true for cars, although because of just how expensive cars are, often we do borrow for cars, and at least if we're putting enough down, we've got something that is collateralized so that we could always sell the car and pay it off. We don't want to be upside down, but we're not taking on surety when we have an asset that can be liquidated, converted to cash to satisfy the loan. But we need to make sure that economic cost is lower than the economic return.
Those are just a few ideas that we want to consider. We also want to think about, you know, we're pre-obligating future spending when we borrow, which just means we're determining in advance or we're limiting our options, I'll say. Because if the Lord leads in giving, or a job change, or you to go to the ends of the earth as a missionary, your debt is often going to be the thing that prohibits or prevents you from saying yes.
I love what we've talked about with Ron several times today. I love where Ron says, you know, we need to always be ready to live or die, give or go, right? And often the financial situation that we have ourselves in is the showstopper to following the leading of the Holy Spirit. We had a caller not too long ago, and she said, "Rob, I started listening a year ago. I started building an emergency fund. I heard you talk about it. And would you know that to the month I had six months saved up, I lost my job. And I was able, because I wasn't living right up to the edge and because I had that emergency fund, I was able to stop and pray and say, 'Lord, what's next?' And I want you to know I'm leaving next month to go be a full-time missionary, and I could not have even listened and discerned long enough to answer that call if I didn't have the emergency fund." We'll be right back.
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Rob West: Great to have you with us today on Faith & Finance here on American Family Radio. I'm Rob West. We're taking your calls and questions today. I've got room for a few more questions here in this final segment. Anything financial—as you manage your budget, as you save, as you pay down debt, as you try to get that pesky credit score up, as you think about preparing the next steward, do I choose a will or a trust, and how do I pass wisdom before wealth? Any of those questions and more today when you call 800-525-7000. Again, that's 800-525-7000. You can call right now, you'll get right through. We'll try to get you on the air quickly.
You know, we had a great call earlier in the program today from Harold, and, you know, Harold's really struggling. He's in a dating relationship, and he's just seeing consistent and ongoing signs that his girlfriend is just unwilling to make the hard decisions to live that disciplined financial life as a steward, and perhaps in part being enabled by mom and dad rescuing her, but just seeing that pattern and an unwillingness to change behaviors that has resulted in just a disaster of a financial life ongoing. And so we provided some assistance through a counselor and a couple of copies of How Much Is Enough?, and we're just going to pray that God moves in that situation. And more than anything, that she just sees this incredible role she has to be found faithful as a steward of God's resources.
But it made me think about just the importance of being on the same page financially in marriage. I realize they're just boyfriend and girlfriend at the moment, but when it comes to marriage, as I mentioned to Harold, you know, the most common reason cited for divorce, money is right there at the top of the list. And as I said, it's often not about the money; it's about everything beneath the money. But it's the money as well.
And, you know, in terms of getting on the same page about money, let me just give you three ideas that I think are key. These come right out of Shaunti Feldhahn's book, Thriving in Love & Money, that she wrote with her husband Jeff. She's a Harvard researcher. They did a massive study on married couples, just to look at what were the common ingredients for the couples that were thriving in money and marriage, what they called love and money. And there was three that really rose to the surface, and I think these are just so key if you can really lean into them and think about them.
First is communication. Now, you won't be surprised. You might say, "Well, I could have guessed, Rob. If you're going to talk about marriage, doesn't everything kind of roll up to communication?" And, yeah, in part it does. We're two different people coming in as one flesh after marriage, trying to seek unity, and given that we're both sinners and we both have different backgrounds and upbringings, you know, we need to have a lot of communication, a lot of grace. But leaning into that and doing something that we call a "money date" is really key. In fact, you know, we've had Shaunti on the program before. His new book, 8 Money Dates, is coming out here in the next few weeks from Moody Publishers, and we're really excited about it. We're going to have Shaunti back on to talk about it, where he just tees up some really simple but fun ideas where he connects a date activity for you and your spouse with a money conversation, one for each. And, you know, that's kind of an idea where you would say, "What if we established a rhythm of a money date?" because communication is key.
Second, understanding. Here's the reality. Often the things that shape how you handle money today were largely in place by the age of nine, studies say. Your environment, your upbringing, how money management was modeled for you from mom and dad, how you're wired, your temperament has a lot to do with how you handle money. That's so key. Really just a big idea there. And so as we think about that, that means we need to have understanding. Well, what does that look like? Well, it could be as simple as asking the question, maybe you never have before, "Hey," to your spouse, "what's your earliest memory about money?" And just be quiet and listen. And you answer that question as well, because those early foundational memories about money have a lot to do with how we handle money today. And then perhaps something, you know, you could get into like a temperaments exercise and really just understanding the wiring of your spouse, and how that affects how you or your spouse handles money today, so you can appreciate where they're coming from. You know, the fact that they're a spender has a lot to do with how God has made them, or a saver, you know, and all the other issues about money being a source of security versus money being something we use to invest in relationships and give, and just create experiences for us. Neither is right or wrong; we just need to have that understanding so we can appreciate where each other is coming from.
And then the third: margin. What Shaunti and Jeff found was that those couples that thrived in love and money, it wasn't about their income; it was about that whatever their income was, they lived below it. That margin present in the spending plan month to month was key to them being able to have a healthy relationship with money. So the three big ideas: communication, understanding, and margin were really the things that rose to the surface. Think about those today. Are they present in your marriage? If not, pick one and lean into it, and see if God doesn't work in that.
Rob West: All right, let's try to wrap up the program today with a few more calls. I know I've been doing a lot of talking. Let's go to Pennsylvania. Charles, go right ahead.
Charles: Yes. My mother is taking her name off the family farm, and it will be passed to my two brothers and myself. And so how should we structure it? Right now, it's just privately owned. Should we go with an LLC or a corporation? Basically to make it easier on ourselves in the future, because we're all in our 50s now and we'll be passing it on again in a decade or two.
Rob West: Yeah, great question. I would encourage you to get the ownership and management structure settled before your mom transfers the farm, if that's possible. So an LLC may be a good option for three brothers who will jointly own an income-producing property, but it's not automatically the best choice. So the bigger issue is really making sure you all agree on how it will be managed, how the income will be divided, and then what happens when a brother wants out, if that happens. Now, you may say, "Well, no, no, we're all kind of in this for life." Maybe, but things change, and circumstances change, and needs change, and you want to define that exit ramp in advance. How will you value it? How will you create the liquidity?
So, now for a farm that's already leased and producing income, you'd probably want a farm estate attorney and a CPA to review the transfer before changing the deed. And again, you may benefit from an LLC, but the transfer itself could have significant tax consequences, most notably this idea of a gift versus an inheritance, because if your mom gives you the farm now, you are going to receive her existing tax basis. If you inherit it at death, the basis is going to be adjusted to the date-of-death value, and that difference could be substantial.
So I'd probably get with an attorney and a CPA. You'd probably want to consider a family LLC with a written operating agreement. That's going to cover who manages the lease, how the rent and expenses are divided, how much cash stays in reserve, again, when a brother decides to sell, what happens at death or disagreement. And then an attorney's going to want to review that existing lease and insurance and any debt that you have before the transfer of the ownership. Does that make sense, though?
Charles: Yes. Our names are already on it, so right now it would just be changing from being a four-way split to a three-way split. Is that going to impact anything that you've already said?
Rob West: Yeah, that's significant. So that removes this decision around inheritance versus gifting, because you guys are already on it. You already own interest in the farm. So the immediate issue now is your mom's fourth interest, and how will that be transferred, and then how you're going to manage the property afterward. Maybe some of that's already settled. Again, you don't necessarily need an LLC just because ownership is changing from four to three, but I would again have an attorney review the current deed before your mom signs anything, because the deed determines whether the owners hold separate interests or have survivorship rights, and that affects what happens when your mom starts the transfer of her share. And then you're going to want a CPA to review the tax consequences of transferring her interest now rather than at death.
For the ongoing rental income, I think, you know, you can continue owning the farm individually and just use a written co-ownership agreement, or this may be the time to go ahead and put the LLC in place, which would make management and succession easier. But it does involve legal, tax, and lending considerations when you do that transfer. So, you know, you really need to get all these things ironed out if any of them are unclear regarding who manages the lease, how the profits and expenses are divided, reserves for repairs, and then again, this big one of what if one of you wants to sell.
Charles: Okay. Thank you very much.
Rob West: Okay, Charles. Hey, I appreciate your call today. Lord bless you, my friend.
Hey, listen, before we wrap up here today, I really appreciate your calls today, some really thoughtful questions, some hard questions, especially thinking about Harold and just kind of navigating what God might be saying to him as he's thinking about future marriage with his girlfriend, but also just really thoughtful questions around being a wise steward, and how do we buy a place of our own, and how do we manage the legalities of a family farm. Those are important decisions that require wise counsel, but also prayerful and thoughtful wisdom from God's Word.
Hey, we do what we do every day only because, in part, of your financial support. This is a listener-supported ministry, and so, yes, we have some national and local sponsors, but a huge part of what makes this possible each day is those that come alongside us with financial support here at FaithFi. And let me just ask if you'd be willing to become a FaithFi Partner. We'd certainly be grateful. Partners give $35 a month at a minimum, or at least $400 a year. They're a huge part of this ministry, and as a thank you and just further encouragement in your role as a steward, we send to you four issues of our magazine, Faithful Steward, all of our new studies and devotionals and field guides, including our new devotional coming out with Randy Alcorn right at the first of the year, and our new field guide on how to prepare the next steward. Those are the kinds of things mailed throughout the year to partners. If you want to consider becoming a partner or just making a one-time gift, we would certainly be grateful. We could use your help. Just head to faithfi.com/give. That's faithfi.com/give.
Big thanks to Patty, Pat, Adam, Taylor, and everybody here at FaithFi. May the Lord bless you. Come back and join us tomorrow. We'll see you then. Bye-bye.
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Rob West: Zechariah 4:10 reminds us, "Do not despise these small beginnings, for the Lord rejoices to see the work begin." Hi, I'm Rob West. When money is tight, giving more, saving more, or paying down debt can feel out of reach, but financial progress doesn't always begin with a giant leap. Sometimes faithfulness starts with one small step at a time. Today, Brian Holtz joins us with four practical ways to begin creating margin. And then it's on to your calls at 800-525-7000. This is Faith and Finance on American Family Radio, biblical wisdom for your financial decisions.
Well, it's always a privilege to have my friend Brian Holtz back with us. Brian is the CEO of Compass Financial Ministry, founded by our good friend and former host of this program, Howard Dayton. Compass helps people around the world grow as faithful stewards by applying biblical wisdom to the way they earn, spend, save, and give. Brian, great to have you back.
Brian Holtz: It's always great to be here, Rob.
Rob West: Brian, when money is tight, it can feel difficult to make progress, especially when you want to give generously and save wisely. What encouragement would you offer someone who feels like there just isn't enough margin to do both?
Brian Holtz: Yeah, Rob, that really is tough. You know, whether they're in that position because of past choices or forces outside of our control, gaining that first little bit of margin seems to be the hardest. So, I'd love to share four tactical moves that can spark that first bit of progress.
Step one is to start with prayer. Now, I know that doesn't sound tactical, but it is. James 1:5 promises that God gives wisdom to those who ask. Tell Him that you want to follow His ways, but that you've hit a roadblock and you need His help, and He will respond. Now, we'd all love for it to be extra funds in our bank account, but it's usually fresh insight. You'll start to spot new options and meet wise people, but one way or another, God will answer those prayers.
Rob West: Yeah, that's well said and absolutely right—that we need to invite God into our financial lives, and we often miss that step. All right, what's step two?
Brian Holtz: So second, people need to think smaller, but longer. Slim margins can certainly delay the quick wins and the progress we really want to feel like we're making, but they don't stop us from making steady, long-term progress. Maybe you want to give 10% for all the right reasons, but you can't. Well, start with 1%, or maybe even less, and work your way up.
Remember, Jesus praised the widow who gave two tiny copper coins not because of the value, but because of the heart she had behind it. Same thing with saving. Tuck away $5 or $10 a week if that's all you can do, but tiny steps will still cover that same mile. It just might take more of those steps.
Rob West: That's well said. So, start with prayer, and then think smaller, but longer. And what's step three?
Brian Holtz: Step three is really to aim the windfalls that you have at making monthly or weekly margin. So, think about tax refunds or that fifth paycheck month that you get, maybe a rebate from something you bought at the hardware store, and use them strategically to drop monthly costs.
So, maybe you knock out a small bill that frees up $10 or $20 a month every month, like paying off your phone or maybe a department store credit card that you used one time. Before you tackle those big debts, knock off the little ones. That first freed-up payment becomes fuel for the next steps that you want to take.
Rob West: Yeah, it's almost like a mini snowball method. Small, focused steps, but building momentum over time, right?
Brian Holtz: Absolutely. And that's the play when money's tight. The fourth and final step is shopping with a strategy. Stock up on the essentials when they're on sale, pay top-priority bills first, and trim out the non-essentials.
So, if chicken's half-price today, grab two packs instead of one, but only if you're going to actually use them. Pay your housing bill before you go to the extras, and maybe that means some months you have to skip the streaming service, but that's better than missing out on a rent payment. And wants generally cost more than needs. Choosing needs before wants honors God and grows that margin like we're trying to do.
Rob West: Really great suggestions. I know Compass has a resource that is specifically designed, Brian, to help people navigate a tight budget, right?
Brian Holtz: We do. It's a video study called Making Ends Meet, and it's designed to help people find that first little bit of margin and begin their financial discipleship journey step-by-step, even when they're starting at the bottom.
Rob West: And you can find that resource along with many others to help you steward God's money wisely. Just simply head to compassfinancialministry.org. That's compassfinancialministry.org. Brian, great to have you with us today.
Brian Holtz: My pleasure, Rob.
Rob West: That's Brian Holtz, CEO of Compass Financial Ministry. Financial progress rarely happens overnight, so start small, stay faithful, and let each wise decision create a little more margin for the next. Back with your questions after this. Stick around.
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Rob West: Hey, thanks for joining us today on Faith & Finance here on American Family Radio. I'm Rob West. Well, we're going to begin taking your phone calls here in just a moment, which means now is the time to call 800-525-7000. We've got lines open today, they will fill up. So go ahead and get your question in the queue as you give, save, and spend. And you're wondering, how do I approach this particular question I have, this thing I'm wrestling with? And is there a biblical perspective on it? How do I move forward practically? What does faithfulness look like for me? You know, that's our goal, that's the measure, is what does it look like to be faithful with what God entrusts to us. He entrusts to each differing amounts, it all belongs to Him. Our charge, our task, faithfulness with what we've been given. Once we give our lives to Jesus, it's really all about stewardship, stewarding everything God has entrusted to us. The very breath in our lungs, our skills, our abilities, God's word, our relationships, our time, yes, God's money, the treasure that we have the privilege of managing on behalf of the King of kings. But what does faithfulness look like in each and every situation? Well, we have to start with God's word and we've got to go to Him in prayer, and then we seek wise counsel. And we hope in part that's what we can do each day as we come alongside you and lift your arms and give wind to your sails, give you some practical, wise counsel rooted in biblical wisdom. Never wagging a finger at you, always empathetic and understanding we're all on a journey, we all make mistakes, we live in a fallen world, we're going to have struggles and challenges, but we want to be able to be that source of wise counsel. So as you think about debt repayment and you think about preparing the next steward, and investing for God's glory and giving generously, and even seeking, you know, taking Social Security and wondering when the right time is for that, any of those questions and more, we'd love for you to call right now at 800-525-7000. Again, that's 800-525-7000.
Rob West: Before we dive into those questions today, we'll start with the news. Gas prices surged ahead of Labor Day, making this year's holiday weekend the most expensive ever at the pump, that's according to AAA. The national average for regular gasoline reached $4.15 a gallon on Monday, topping the previous Labor Day record of $3.82 back in 2012. Although prices are below May's 2026 peak of $4.56, they're still about 30% higher than a year ago when drivers paid an average of $3.20. Diesel prices also hit a record, reaching $5.90 a gallon compared with $3.71 last year. Elevated crude oil prices and global supply disruptions are, of course, driving much of this increase. Oil shipments through the Strait of Hormuz have fallen sharply amid the conflict in Iran, while refinery disruptions in the Middle East and Russia have further tightened supplies. US gasoline inventories were also about 6% below their average in late August. Some relief may be coming as refiners transition to cheaper winter-blend gasoline. The EPA allowed winter-grade fuel to be sold beginning September 1st, that's earlier than usual. That's all part of an effort to increase supply and reduce prices. Still, future gas prices will largely depend on global oil supply and whether disruptions ease. I know the President is working hard to get the situation with Iran under control, get the strait fully open, and get oil back to a more manageable level, which obviously will cause gas prices to fall considerably. We'll certainly keep an eye on it. I know things are tight, that means questions about how do I manage my budget. It leads to, you know, this dramatic percentage of Americans today that can't even cover a $1,000 unexpected expense apart from using some credit cards. We've got to reign in spending in times like this. I realize that's easier said than done. We're here to help. So any questions today, go ahead and call right now: 800-525-7000.
Rob West: Let's begin today in Texas. Harold, how can I help?
Harold: Uh, I am dating a woman who is very financially difficult. She has for years made horrible decisions with her finances. Family, friends, I've tried to help her several times. She keeps making very bad financial choices and digging herself into a hole every time. I'm at my wit's end because I want to help her, I want it to be good, but I don't want to enable and I don't want to eventually get myself into a financial difficult situation with her.
Rob West: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I appreciate your transparency on that, Harold, and I think this is a really important question. Here's maybe just some thoughts as you process this. I would say first, financial irresponsibility in dating shouldn't automatically end a relationship, but it shouldn't be ignored either. You know, dating is the season for discernment. And money, and the way we handle money, often reveals deeper issues because we know that money issues are heart issues. It's really the most clear expression of what we value and where we place our trust, and what our priorities are. It points to character and priorities and self-control and honesty, and I'm not saying, you know, necessarily those are an issue here, but I think we just need to understand that money issues point to deeper, heart-level issues. Remember Jesus said, "One who is faithful in a very little is also faithful in much." And Proverbs 21 we read, "The plans of the diligent surely lead to abundance." So I think we need to pay attention, not merely to how much this person earns—and you haven't mentioned that—but really to whether they're willing to live within their means. Are they willing to make a plan? Are they absolutely committed to repay obligations? Are they open to seeking wise counsel? These are all characteristics of a faithful steward. And I would say to the extent some of those are not there, I think that should just be something you take note of and lean into. I think the other piece here is, and maybe you've already done this, I'd like to know, but I think having an open conversation about spending, and debt, and giving, and saving, and financial goals is important. You know, the biggest concern may not be past mistakes, but if there's an unwillingness to change. You know, someone who says, "I've handled money poorly in the past, but I want to grow" is very different from someone who dismisses the problem altogether. And I would just finish by saying, you know, don't assume marriage will fix it. Financial habits often become sources of significant tension after marriage. It's the most common problem that's cited by divorcees. Again, I think often the money issues are symptomatic of something deeper, nevertheless, it's the money issues that are cited as the primary source of conflict. So, maybe I'll just finish by saying move slowly, watch for genuine fruit over time, seek counsel from mature believers who know both of you, have open and honest conversations, especially if, you know, you're moving toward and talking about marriage. And, you know, the goal is you're not looking for financial perfection here, but you are looking for humility and responsibility and a shared desire to steward what ultimately belongs to God and not to you or your girlfriend. But give me your thoughts on all that, Harold.
Harold: I completely agree. The thing is, I've spoken with family and friends. I've spoken with her father, who's helped her considerably and still does to an extent. And she, so this is not something new. It's many, many attempts have been tried to work with her over the years—family and friends and the things that you've just mentioned. And I've definitely tried, too. And so, this is one of the reasons I'm calling, is it's gotten to such an extent that I'm left battling a heart decision and a financial decision like this.
Rob West: I get it. Let's do this. I've got one thing I want to offer as part of a path forward. Let's do that after the break. Stay right there. We'll be right back.
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Rob West: Great to have you with us today on Faith & Finance here on American Family Radio. We've got a few lines open, we're taking your calls and questions today at 800-525-7000. Again, that number 800-525-7000. Before the break, we were talking to Harold in Texas. Harold is 46, working full time. He's dating a lady where she has demonstrated in the past some poor decision-making around money management. This is an ongoing pattern. He's talked to her parents about it, he's talked to her about it extensively, not seeing a lot of signs that there's a desire to change. And I was sharing before the break that I think that's the key idea, is that, you know, we're not looking for anything related to the past mistakes necessarily. That's not my primary concern. I think the bigger issue is, you know, do you have somebody that's saying, "Even if I've made mistakes, I want to grow," and "I understand my role as a steward," and, "you know, I'm willing to approach this with humility and responsibility and ultimately a desire to be found faithful" as a steward of God's resources. And I think although this wouldn't, I think, automatically be a cause to end the relationship, it could be at some point because money issues are heart issues, and this is a period for discernment. And this could create real challenges down the road. So I think your willingness to be honest here with her, maybe even at a level you've not been before about your concerns and, you know, your desire to see a different path moving forward so that you all are preparing for marriage—because that's really what dating is, it's not just for fun, I mean we're dating to find the spouse that God would have for us.
I'd be willing, Harold, to provide a Certified Christian Financial Counselor for you to make available to her. Maybe you participate in that, or maybe you don't. I realize, you know, it's not like you're engaged yet or married. But I think having somebody who could be a third party, who's not, you know, you or her family or friends, somebody who could come in and help her set up a spending plan, and maybe that's the catalyst to her setting a new course. You said something around her parents' assistance that made me think—and I might be reading this wrong—but perhaps even part of what's going on here is their desire to love her, but also coming in and rescuing her, has inadvertently caused some of these negative cycles around money management to continue. Is that part of the challenge here, do you think?
Harold: I believe so. There is an aspect of that I agree with. And I know parents can do this, but at the same time, you need to help without enabling.
Rob West: That's right. Yeah, you're exactly right. And out of a desire to love our kids, we can inadvertently kind of stunt their growth, so to speak, in financial maturity because, you know, they don't develop the disciplines, they don't learn from difficult situations, and they just don't have to correct, you know, mistakes that are ongoing because they can just rely on mom and dad to come in and rescue them. Do you think she'd be willing to take advantage of a Certified Christian Financial Counselor to help her put a spending plan together, to assess reality and maybe get pointed in a different direction?
Harold: I'd be happy to accept and offer that to her. Sadly, I'm not sure if she would agree or not, considering what I've already been through with her, her family, her friends. This has been an ongoing thing. It's almost like dealing with somebody in recovery from an addiction of sorts, they just keep coming back to the abuse.
Rob West: Yeah. Well, and that would be another telltale sign that perhaps she doesn't have a desire to get on a different path, and that, you know, would result in some hard decisions that you would have to make. So, we'll make that available. Obviously, we'll see whether she wants to proceed with that. I'm also going to send you two copies of Master Your Money, the classic by Ron Blue that gives both the biblical worldview of money management as well as the practical steps around giving, saving, spending, investing—all of the key issues. And that'll be our gift to you. You can read through it with her, maybe you guys do it together, a chapter at a time. But I think providing the Certified Christian Financial Counselor—we'll cover the cost of that and these two books. Hopefully that'll make it clear one way or the other what the path forward is, okay?
Harold: Thank you.
Rob West: All right. God bless you, Harold. Thanks for calling, and we'll be praying that the Lord makes it clear where you go from here. Let's go to Arkansas. Hi, Kevin. Go ahead.
Kevin: So, yeah, like you said, I'm in Arkansas. I've been a pastor for about 26 years, and my wife and I—I pastor full time, my wife works full time—and we've never owned our own home. We've always lived in a parsonage. And we don't have any debt other than about $4,000 on a car, so we're pretty thankful for that. But we've been offered a place. It's 1.7 acres, it's got a shop on it, it's got an old mobile home on it that's been added onto, and due to that, we can't really find a loan because of the mobile home. We don't have really any savings, but I do have somewhere around 200 to I think 240,000 in retirement. I think about 70 of that is in an annuity, another 140 is in an old retirement that's tied to the church I pastored 10 years ago. And so my question is, you know, I'm looking for advice on can I borrow against that retirement? And is that a good idea, or if I can do that when I roll that over from my old plan into a new one, what kind of plan should I be looking for?
Rob West: Yeah. Is that a 403(b), Kevin?
Kevin: The annuity?
Rob West: Oh, it's an annuity?
Kevin: Yeah, well, the one—just last year I rolled 70 or 80,000 into the annuity from that plan. The other one, I honestly, I should have looked it up before I called, but I don't remember what it is other than it was an old plan through our denomination.
Rob West: Yeah, it's okay. You would have to ask the annuity company for an explanation of loan availability. Often they do not offer any kind of loans. 403(b)s typically do offer loans, IRAs do not. Regardless, though, that would not be my preferred plan for you all moving forward. Even if you didn't contribute any more for a season so you could accelerate your savings, I wouldn't want you to go into this without any savings and having to borrow from your retirement plan. If you separated from employment, it would all be taxable if you couldn't repay it. You know, at your age, you'd be subject to a 10% penalty. So, I'm not a big fan of that approach. Let's finish up though after this break, stay right there.
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Rob West: Great to have you with us today on Faith & Finance here on American Family Radio. We're taking your calls and questions today on anything financial. You've got a question as you give? You want to give wisely? As you save and invest for the future and build your emergency fund? As you spend and try to live within your means and build a spending plan and seek to be wise in how you steward what God has entrusted to you? We're here for you. We'd love to take those questions. We've got lines open. The team is standing by. Call right now, 800-525-7000. That's 800-525-7000. By the way, that phone number goes all the way back to Larry Burkett. Isn't that fun? We've had that number since the '80s and it's just traveled with us from Larry to Howard, and now on to this program. So, call it today, maybe with some nostalgia, 800-525-7000.
Rob West: Before the break, we were talking to Kevin in Arkansas. Kevin is a pastor of 26 years. He's 51, his wife's 49, they both are working. He is looking to buy their first home. They're going to get a trailer that's a little older, that's they believe undervalued, but it's hard to get a loan on that type of dwelling just given the situation there. And they're wondering about with no savings, should they borrow against retirement?
And I'm really not a big fan of that approach. It may not even be available depending on what type of account it is. But, you know, the challenge is a qualifying loan has to be repaid, leaving employment can create repayment and tax complications because it becomes all taxable income while the money's out of the account. It's obviously not growing for your future, which is why it's there in the first place. You may get a 10% early withdrawal penalty exception as a first-time homebuyer, but that doesn't eliminate the income tax. So, I'm just not a fan of that. I would prefer if you're trying to build savings a little quicker to make this purchase, maybe you temporarily stop new contributions while you're doing that, but I wouldn't borrow from what's already there.
I would also say about the mobile home, clearly lenders are reluctant to finance certain situations. That $25,000 discount that you mentioned is a bargain only if the home is sound, the title is clear, the cost fits your budget. I mean, I'd make sure all three of those are true. And you could explore manufactured home financing specifically first. FHA has a Title I program that finances eligible new or used manufactured homes, including some on leased lots. So you'd have to find a HUD-approved housing counselor to help you identify lenders and determine where the property qualifies. I'd much prefer that option.
But I'm also slightly concerned about you getting into a home, even one that is quote-unquote a good value, without any kind of margin or savings, because we know homes, especially manufactured homes that are a little older, sold at a discount, are going to need some maintenance and upkeep, and you're taking on a lot of property with it. And I just don't want you to be squeezed without any kind of emergency funds to fall back on. So I'd probably just continue on your current track, and let's look for ways to build savings and make that purchase out of cash versus the retirement account. I realize that's easier said than done, and you guys would like a place of your own, but I just don't love the path forward here given the no savings and the fact that it would require borrowing from retirement. Is that helpful, Kevin?
Kevin: Thank you. Yeah. Yeah, it is, and I do appreciate your time.
Rob West: Absolutely, sir. Lord bless you and thanks for your call today. 800-525-7000 is the number to call. We'd love to tackle your financial questions today, help you think about managing God's money God's way in light of biblical wisdom.
You know, as we talk about borrowing, you know, there's some rules we need to heed when it comes to borrowing. You know, there's a number of them to think about. And when it comes to debt, as we look at it through the lens of biblical wisdom, we have to recognize, first, borrowing is not a sin. I mean, let's just get that out there. But there are clear warnings in scripture around debt, starting with the change in relationship, master-slave relationship. And so, we're obligating future income, and by the way, we repay debt back after tax. So we borrow, we pay interest, then we have to earn money, pay taxes on it, and then we pay back the debt. And so you kind of get hit from both sides with the interest accruing on the debt and the after-tax dollars being used for repayment.
But we've also got the change in relationship. But some of those rules I think for borrowing are really important. We've talked about these in the past with Ron Blue, who, these are a part of Master Your Money. But first of all, spousal unity is absolutely essential. You know, I think we can get caught into a situation where we're making decisions and we're just not on the same page. And I think in marriage, if we're not on the same page and we're borrowing, that's a showstopper. We stop right there. We don't borrow unless we have unity. Now, doesn't mean we don't continue to try to work through it and hear each other out, and what's the concern, and all of those things, but I think going ahead without spousal unity, I think is a non-starter.
Second, are we robbing God of an opportunity to work? Now, the Lord is going to do what He is going to do. We're not going to interfere with that. But I think we're just so quick to come up with other solutions rather than just stopping, being patient, inviting God into our financial lives through prayer, asking for wisdom, slowing down. Often the financial circumstances I think are just a clear indicator of where the Lord may not be leading. Because we know that we need to be stewards, faithful stewards of what God has entrusted to us, and therefore, if God is leaning toward something, He's going to provide the means to do it. And so, at the very least, it may be not a no, but maybe it's a not right now. And maybe the finances are that first indicator that we need to slow down and wait, hit the pause button, pray, save, be diligent, cut back, all of those things. So, we can rob God of an opportunity to work. We need to make sure we have spousal unity.
We also need to make sure that the economic return is greater than the financial cost. What does that mean? Well, it just means we really only want to borrow, when possible, for appreciating assets. Now, this certainly what Kevin was calling about is going to fit into that situation because we should have a property where the land lot and the mobile home appreciate over time, hopefully. Certainly with a single-family home, that's normally true. A business, that would be true. Not true when we're going out and just spending on lifestyle, which is why that's a non-starter. Not true for cars, although because of just how expensive cars are, often we do borrow for cars, and at least if we're putting enough down, we've got something that is collateralized so that we could always sell the car and pay it off. We don't want to be upside down, but we're not taking on surety when we have an asset that can be liquidated, converted to cash to satisfy the loan. But we need to make sure that economic cost is lower than the economic return.
Those are just a few ideas that we want to consider. We also want to think about, you know, we're pre-obligating future spending when we borrow, which just means we're determining in advance or we're limiting our options, I'll say. Because if the Lord leads in giving, or a job change, or you to go to the ends of the earth as a missionary, your debt is often going to be the thing that prohibits or prevents you from saying yes.
I love what we've talked about with Ron several times today. I love where Ron says, you know, we need to always be ready to live or die, give or go, right? And often the financial situation that we have ourselves in is the showstopper to following the leading of the Holy Spirit. We had a caller not too long ago, and she said, "Rob, I started listening a year ago. I started building an emergency fund. I heard you talk about it. And would you know that to the month I had six months saved up, I lost my job. And I was able, because I wasn't living right up to the edge and because I had that emergency fund, I was able to stop and pray and say, 'Lord, what's next?' And I want you to know I'm leaving next month to go be a full-time missionary, and I could not have even listened and discerned long enough to answer that call if I didn't have the emergency fund." We'll be right back.
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Rob West: Great to have you with us today on Faith & Finance here on American Family Radio. I'm Rob West. We're taking your calls and questions today. I've got room for a few more questions here in this final segment. Anything financial—as you manage your budget, as you save, as you pay down debt, as you try to get that pesky credit score up, as you think about preparing the next steward, do I choose a will or a trust, and how do I pass wisdom before wealth? Any of those questions and more today when you call 800-525-7000. Again, that's 800-525-7000. You can call right now, you'll get right through. We'll try to get you on the air quickly.
You know, we had a great call earlier in the program today from Harold, and, you know, Harold's really struggling. He's in a dating relationship, and he's just seeing consistent and ongoing signs that his girlfriend is just unwilling to make the hard decisions to live that disciplined financial life as a steward, and perhaps in part being enabled by mom and dad rescuing her, but just seeing that pattern and an unwillingness to change behaviors that has resulted in just a disaster of a financial life ongoing. And so we provided some assistance through a counselor and a couple of copies of How Much Is Enough?, and we're just going to pray that God moves in that situation. And more than anything, that she just sees this incredible role she has to be found faithful as a steward of God's resources.
But it made me think about just the importance of being on the same page financially in marriage. I realize they're just boyfriend and girlfriend at the moment, but when it comes to marriage, as I mentioned to Harold, you know, the most common reason cited for divorce, money is right there at the top of the list. And as I said, it's often not about the money; it's about everything beneath the money. But it's the money as well.
And, you know, in terms of getting on the same page about money, let me just give you three ideas that I think are key. These come right out of Shaunti Feldhahn's book, Thriving in Love & Money, that she wrote with her husband Jeff. She's a Harvard researcher. They did a massive study on married couples, just to look at what were the common ingredients for the couples that were thriving in money and marriage, what they called love and money. And there was three that really rose to the surface, and I think these are just so key if you can really lean into them and think about them.
First is communication. Now, you won't be surprised. You might say, "Well, I could have guessed, Rob. If you're going to talk about marriage, doesn't everything kind of roll up to communication?" And, yeah, in part it does. We're two different people coming in as one flesh after marriage, trying to seek unity, and given that we're both sinners and we both have different backgrounds and upbringings, you know, we need to have a lot of communication, a lot of grace. But leaning into that and doing something that we call a "money date" is really key. In fact, you know, we've had Shaunti on the program before. His new book, 8 Money Dates, is coming out here in the next few weeks from Moody Publishers, and we're really excited about it. We're going to have Shaunti back on to talk about it, where he just tees up some really simple but fun ideas where he connects a date activity for you and your spouse with a money conversation, one for each. And, you know, that's kind of an idea where you would say, "What if we established a rhythm of a money date?" because communication is key.
Second, understanding. Here's the reality. Often the things that shape how you handle money today were largely in place by the age of nine, studies say. Your environment, your upbringing, how money management was modeled for you from mom and dad, how you're wired, your temperament has a lot to do with how you handle money. That's so key. Really just a big idea there. And so as we think about that, that means we need to have understanding. Well, what does that look like? Well, it could be as simple as asking the question, maybe you never have before, "Hey," to your spouse, "what's your earliest memory about money?" And just be quiet and listen. And you answer that question as well, because those early foundational memories about money have a lot to do with how we handle money today. And then perhaps something, you know, you could get into like a temperaments exercise and really just understanding the wiring of your spouse, and how that affects how you or your spouse handles money today, so you can appreciate where they're coming from. You know, the fact that they're a spender has a lot to do with how God has made them, or a saver, you know, and all the other issues about money being a source of security versus money being something we use to invest in relationships and give, and just create experiences for us. Neither is right or wrong; we just need to have that understanding so we can appreciate where each other is coming from.
And then the third: margin. What Shaunti and Jeff found was that those couples that thrived in love and money, it wasn't about their income; it was about that whatever their income was, they lived below it. That margin present in the spending plan month to month was key to them being able to have a healthy relationship with money. So the three big ideas: communication, understanding, and margin were really the things that rose to the surface. Think about those today. Are they present in your marriage? If not, pick one and lean into it, and see if God doesn't work in that.
Rob West: All right, let's try to wrap up the program today with a few more calls. I know I've been doing a lot of talking. Let's go to Pennsylvania. Charles, go right ahead.
Charles: Yes. My mother is taking her name off the family farm, and it will be passed to my two brothers and myself. And so how should we structure it? Right now, it's just privately owned. Should we go with an LLC or a corporation? Basically to make it easier on ourselves in the future, because we're all in our 50s now and we'll be passing it on again in a decade or two.
Rob West: Yeah, great question. I would encourage you to get the ownership and management structure settled before your mom transfers the farm, if that's possible. So an LLC may be a good option for three brothers who will jointly own an income-producing property, but it's not automatically the best choice. So the bigger issue is really making sure you all agree on how it will be managed, how the income will be divided, and then what happens when a brother wants out, if that happens. Now, you may say, "Well, no, no, we're all kind of in this for life." Maybe, but things change, and circumstances change, and needs change, and you want to define that exit ramp in advance. How will you value it? How will you create the liquidity?
So, now for a farm that's already leased and producing income, you'd probably want a farm estate attorney and a CPA to review the transfer before changing the deed. And again, you may benefit from an LLC, but the transfer itself could have significant tax consequences, most notably this idea of a gift versus an inheritance, because if your mom gives you the farm now, you are going to receive her existing tax basis. If you inherit it at death, the basis is going to be adjusted to the date-of-death value, and that difference could be substantial.
So I'd probably get with an attorney and a CPA. You'd probably want to consider a family LLC with a written operating agreement. That's going to cover who manages the lease, how the rent and expenses are divided, how much cash stays in reserve, again, when a brother decides to sell, what happens at death or disagreement. And then an attorney's going to want to review that existing lease and insurance and any debt that you have before the transfer of the ownership. Does that make sense, though?
Charles: Yes. Our names are already on it, so right now it would just be changing from being a four-way split to a three-way split. Is that going to impact anything that you've already said?
Rob West: Yeah, that's significant. So that removes this decision around inheritance versus gifting, because you guys are already on it. You already own interest in the farm. So the immediate issue now is your mom's fourth interest, and how will that be transferred, and then how you're going to manage the property afterward. Maybe some of that's already settled. Again, you don't necessarily need an LLC just because ownership is changing from four to three, but I would again have an attorney review the current deed before your mom signs anything, because the deed determines whether the owners hold separate interests or have survivorship rights, and that affects what happens when your mom starts the transfer of her share. And then you're going to want a CPA to review the tax consequences of transferring her interest now rather than at death.
For the ongoing rental income, I think, you know, you can continue owning the farm individually and just use a written co-ownership agreement, or this may be the time to go ahead and put the LLC in place, which would make management and succession easier. But it does involve legal, tax, and lending considerations when you do that transfer. So, you know, you really need to get all these things ironed out if any of them are unclear regarding who manages the lease, how the profits and expenses are divided, reserves for repairs, and then again, this big one of what if one of you wants to sell.
Charles: Okay. Thank you very much.
Rob West: Okay, Charles. Hey, I appreciate your call today. Lord bless you, my friend.
Hey, listen, before we wrap up here today, I really appreciate your calls today, some really thoughtful questions, some hard questions, especially thinking about Harold and just kind of navigating what God might be saying to him as he's thinking about future marriage with his girlfriend, but also just really thoughtful questions around being a wise steward, and how do we buy a place of our own, and how do we manage the legalities of a family farm. Those are important decisions that require wise counsel, but also prayerful and thoughtful wisdom from God's Word.
Hey, we do what we do every day only because, in part, of your financial support. This is a listener-supported ministry, and so, yes, we have some national and local sponsors, but a huge part of what makes this possible each day is those that come alongside us with financial support here at FaithFi. And let me just ask if you'd be willing to become a FaithFi Partner. We'd certainly be grateful. Partners give $35 a month at a minimum, or at least $400 a year. They're a huge part of this ministry, and as a thank you and just further encouragement in your role as a steward, we send to you four issues of our magazine, Faithful Steward, all of our new studies and devotionals and field guides, including our new devotional coming out with Randy Alcorn right at the first of the year, and our new field guide on how to prepare the next steward. Those are the kinds of things mailed throughout the year to partners. If you want to consider becoming a partner or just making a one-time gift, we would certainly be grateful. We could use your help. Just head to faithfi.com/give. That's faithfi.com/give.
Big thanks to Patty, Pat, Adam, Taylor, and everybody here at FaithFi. May the Lord bless you. Come back and join us tomorrow. We'll see you then. Bye-bye.
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Zechariah 4:10 reminds us, “Do not despise these small beginnings, for the Lord rejoices to see the work begin.” When money is tight, giving more, saving more, or paying down debt can feel out of reach. But financial progress doesn’t always begin with a giant leap. Sometimes, faithfulness starts with one small step at a time. On this Faith & Finance on AFR, Brian Holtz joins Rob West with four practical ways to begin creating margin. Then it’s on to calls.
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