Rob West: Money has a way of reaching places in our lives that nothing else does. It touches our fears, our desires, our relationships, and our sense of security. I am Rob West. That's why Jesus said, "Where your treasure is, there your heart will be also." He knew something we often miss: money issues are heart issues. Today we're exploring how our financial lives reveal what's happening inside us, and how God invites us into freedom and trust. Then it's on to your calls at 800-525-7000. That's 800-525-7000. This is Faith & Finance on American Family Radio. Biblical wisdom for your financial decisions.
Years ago, my friend and mentor, Ron Blue, told me a story from his time in Kenya that has shaped my entire approach to stewardship. He was sitting on a hillside with a local pastor. They were looking out over the village where the man lived, and Ron asked what he thought was a practical question. He said, "What's the greatest barrier to the spread of the Gospel here?" Remember, he's in Kenya. He expected to hear about money, transportation, or a lack of resources, but the pastor didn't hesitate. He said, "Materialism." Ron was stunned. Surely materialism was a Western issue, but the pastor went on. He said, "If a man has a mud hut, he wants a stone hut. If he has a thatch roof, he wants a metal one. If he has one cow, he wants two." Well, in that moment, Ron realized something profound: materialism is not about how much you have. It's about what your heart longs for. Because if materialism can thrive in a mud hut every bit as easily as in an American suburb, then money is not the root problem—the heart is. Money simply exposes what's already there: our desires, our fears, our loyalties, our trust.
That's exactly what Jesus teaches. Money isn't moral or immoral; it's a tool. But because it touches nearly every part of our life, it becomes one of the greatest indicators of what we trust, desire, and worship. When we overspend, it may reflect a longing for identity or approval. When we cling tightly to savings, it may reveal where we seek security. When we fall into debt, it might reveal impatience or a desire to live outside of God's provision. When we resist generosity, it may reveal fear that God won't provide. In all these cases, the dollars are secondary; the heart is primary.
The good news is this: God cares deeply about the state of our hearts, and He invites us to experience freedom—freedom from fear, from comparison, from striving, from the false belief that everything depends on us. Over years of studying Scripture and walking with listeners and families through financial decisions, a few core truths have become foundational for me:
First, God owns it all. Ownership determines responsibility. If everything belongs to Him, then we stop clinging to money as if our lives depend on it. We begin managing it as stewards: grateful, humble, and free.
Second, God is our provider. The Scriptures remind us that He feeds the birds and clothes the lilies, and we, His children, are worth far more. When we believe that, fear begins to loosen its grip.
Third, money is a tool, not a treasure. It was never meant to bear the weight of our identity or security. It was meant to serve God's purposes: meeting needs, blessing others, advancing the Gospel, and reflecting the generosity of the One who gave everything for us.
And fourth, our financial decisions are acts of worship. Every spending choice, every giving decision, every act of planning becomes an opportunity to honor God. When we begin asking, "How can I serve You with this?", money stops being a rival and becomes a means of discipleship.
These aren't theoretical ideas. They're the truths that shape every page of my devotional, Our Ultimate Treasure: A 21-Day Journey to Faithful Stewardship. I wrote it to help you walk through these core biblical principles and see how deeply they shape your daily financial decisions. Here's my hope: that as you read it, you'll experience God's peace growing where fear once lived, contentment where comparison once thrived, and generosity where self-protection once dominated.
You can grab your copy of Our Ultimate Treasure or place a bulk order for your church or small group today at faithfi.com/shop. That's faithfi.com/shop. And if you want to support the ministry with a gift of $35 a month or $400 a year, you'll become a FaithFi Partner. You'll receive each of our new studies and devotionals as they release, ministry updates every quarter, pro access to the FaithFi app, as well as a copy of our quarterly magazine, Faithful Steward. Just go to faithfi.com/give to learn more.
Folks, in the end, money will always reveal what we treasure most. And when Christ is our ultimate treasure, we experience a freedom no amount of money can offer. Your calls are next: 800-525-7000. We'll be right back after this.
David Wollen: For your walk with Jesus, I'm David Wollen with Haven Today, inviting you to anchor your day in God's Word. It's amazing how quickly and easily weeds grow. There are some weeds that grow close to the good plants, mimicking their appearance. Others send their roots down deep and intertwine them with the roots of the good plants. So, there's no way around it—if you want fruitfulness, you have to pull the weeds often and quickly. In the parable of the sower, Jesus talked about the seed that fell among the weeds and the thorns. He explained to his disciples, this is what it's like when someone hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, making it unfruitful. So, don't wait. Pull those spiritual weeds that are choking your walk with Jesus, and you'll get more encouragement to follow Him at haventoday.org.
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Rob West: So glad you're with us today on Faith & Finance here on American Family Radio. I'm Rob West. Well, as we round out the week this week, we want to finish by tackling those questions. Wouldn't it be nice to head into this long weekend with a checkmark by that question you've been wrestling with in your financial life? Well, we'd love to see if we can help with that. Call right now, 800-525-7000. What questions are in play? Well, really anything financial. As you spend, save, and give, you may want to give more wisely. Maybe you're in that fourth quarter of life looking for some other giving options. Don't forget, you know, Ron Blue says—I mentioned Ron in the opening segment, I'll give you another "Ron-ism": Do your giving while you're living so you're knowing where it's going. Isn't that great? And, you know, I think it's tongue-in-cheek and we say it with a smile, but the truth behind it is really powerful. And that is that, you know, so often we plan to do most of our giving at the end of life when some have accumulated more than they'll ever need and could get it into circulation in God's economy right now. Don't miss that opportunity.
Now, you may be listening saying, "Wait a minute, Rob. I'm on the other end of the spectrum. I'm just trying to balance the budget and get food on the table, and trying to put a little aside for my emergency fund or for retirement, but I'm struggling." And that's a reality as well. And I'd love to try to come alongside and encourage and equip you wherever you find yourself. Maybe you're in between thinking about, "How's the best way to position my retirement account?" or "I just want to get my credit score up because I need to get a home equity line of credit to do some improvements," or "I need to buy a car and I'm going to have to take on a small loan, and I'd really like to qualify for the very best rates and terms," especially with rates a little bit higher right now. We can talk about that as well.
So, any financial question today, our promise to you is to be encouraging, to take you back to God's Word, to always try to give you wise counsel rooted in a biblical worldview based on timeless wisdom—not mine, wisdom from God's Word. 800-525-7000 is the number to call. We have lines open at the moment, so you can call right now: 800-525-7000.
We're going to begin in Virginia in just a moment. But first, in the news today, the latest snapshot of the US labor market arrived this morning, and it was considerably stronger than economists expected. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, employers added 162,000 jobs in August while the unemployment rate held steady at 4.1%. Economists had expected job growth of only about 56,000, so this was 3x what they were expecting. You might think the market would soar on that. Not so. Markets selling off today. Why? Well, it's this upside-down world we're in where strong economic data means less likely that the Fed will cut interest rates, therefore the market doesn't like it and sells off.
Well, President Trump making some news on his own, telling the Fed to slash rates or he'll end trade with countries with US surpluses. He knows what's going on here as this economy just continues to barrel forward. He knows that inflation's been a little stickier than the Fed wants, and he's trying to exert his authority to encourage the Fed, I'll say, through his various means, to lower interest rates, because the likelihood is, given what's going on, especially on the heels of this much stronger than expected jobs report, that they're going to hold steady, if not increase, interest rates. He certainly doesn't want that, especially heading into the midterms. So, we'll get Jerry Bowyer's take on all of that a little later in the broadcast. He'll stop by with Walker Wildmon to give us his end-of-the-week market and economic update, and then we'll talk corporate engagement. What's going on with AFA and the engagements they're having with the biggest companies in the world to advocate for Christian values? Well, you'll hear some of the latest in our final segment today. Always encouraging to hear those reports from Walker and Jerry.
All right, we're going to dive into your questions. Lines are open. Call right now with any financial question: 800-525-7000. I'd love to talk to you today. Let's begin in Virginia. Deborah, go right ahead.
Deborah: Oh, thank you very much. I am 76. My husband is 82. We've been retired for a number of years now. Very early in our marriage, my husband gave me the checkbook and said, "Here, I want you to be responsible. You take care of all the finances." And so I said, "Okay." And over the years, I've tried to be a faithful steward, and I thought that I was making very wise decisions. But then recently, you said something that kind of gave me pause, and this is my dilemma. I have put everything—I mean everything: the house, the cars, the bank accounts, all of our investments—everything is in both of our names. And our will stipulates that the first one to die gets everything, and then the second one, well, it gets distributed. My question is, whoever of us is the first to go, in that interim period while everything is getting taken care of surrounding the death, will the one who is living have difficulty accessing our accounts because they're in both of our names?
Rob West: Yeah, great question, and the answer is no. You've handled this in the right way. And I think what you're getting at here is, if he dies first, or vice versa, will the other suddenly be unable to pay the bills while everything gets sorted out? And if you've truly structured your bank and taxable investment accounts jointly with rights of survivorship, the answer is generally no. You wouldn't have to wait for the will to be probated to become the owner of those joint assets. With a joint bank account with survivorship rights, the surviving owner generally continues to own the account.
There can be an administrative transition period where you'll need the death certificates and the banks and brokerage firms have procedures for removing the deceased spouse's name or retitling the accounts. They may require specific information for that. But that's very different from the money being locked in probate for months. The bigger concern would be, even if you already have legal access, do you practically know where everything is, and vice versa, and how to operate it? Because you've been the one managing all the finances, if for some reason—and I know, on average, women live longer than men, but let's say you pre-deceased him—does he know the banks, and the investment firms, and how the bills are paid, and where Social Security and other income is deposited, and who the financial professionals are, and where the will and estate documents are located? That would be an important thing to make sure that both of you know and have access to. But again, if everything is titled jointly with right of survivorship, there should not be an access issue.
Deborah: Okay, so I just need to make sure that that is true. Is that ordinarily true, or does it have to be specified when we're setting up those accounts?
Rob West: Yeah, it's a great question. Yeah, with the right of survivorship, it's very common for joint and brokerage accounts to be set up with right of survivorship, so I would expect that's the way it is. But you don't want to assume it just because both names are on the account. So I think one action step would just be to ask the question: Is this titled joint tenants with right of survivorship, or your state's equivalent, such that when your husband passes or vice versa, his interest or your interest passes directly to the surviving owner rather than waiting for will and probate? And you could just confirm titled jointly with right of survivorship. I assume that will be the case; doesn't hurt to ask. Thanks for your call, Deborah. God bless you. We'll be right back.
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Rob West: Delighted to have you with us today on Faith & Finance here on American Family Radio. On a Friday, we're taking your calls and questions, anything financial, 800-525-7000. Just like all the programming here on American Family Radio, operating from a biblical worldview, helping you live according to God's Word and live as a faithful steward. We steward lots of things, including God's money, and we want to help you do that today.
Coming up in our final segment of the broadcast today, Jerry Bowyer stops by. Much stronger than expected jobs report today; markets selling off as a result. Why is that? Well, we'll get Jerry's take on that in our final segment. We'll also get an update from Jerry and Walker on the recent activity with regard to AFA and corporate engagement. Never a shortage of exciting things to talk about in that segment.
Before the break, we were talking to Deborah in Virginia. She was wanting to be sure that when she or her husband passed away, that there would still be access to the accounts. We talked about the importance of joint tenants with right of survivorship to be able to have continued access even while the accounts were being retitled. But Deborah, I know you had a follow-up question. Go ahead with that.
Deborah: Uh, yes, based on on what you said, um, you know, making sure that my husband knows about everything, my husband has extreme dementia. Hm. And so I'm in the process now of trying to put together a list of everything for my executor. And I I just need to make sure um what kind of pitfalls, uh, I'm I'm trying to understand what kind of pitfalls may occur if I should go first, even if I've got everything laid down, you know, this is where this is, and this is where that is, and this is the pass code to everything. Yeah. Is is there anything else I need to be be aware of?
Rob West: Yeah, I'm so glad you mentioned this. I think there is here, and it does change the planning quite a bit. Let me ask a question, though, first. You said he has severe dementia currently, so does he have, according to your understanding at this point, sufficient legal capacity right now to sign or amend documents?
Deborah: Not really.
Rob West: Okay, yeah.
Deborah: I mean, he's he's he's okay in that I I take him to an adult day care three days a week. Yeah. And and but he doesn't really understand anything that's going on.
Rob West: Hm, yeah, I'm so sorry. Well, yeah, the challenge is that the executor, you know, could be fully informed on where everything's located, but that executor's role is limited to just administering the estate and helping to distribute assets. The problem is, we need somebody who can act on your husband's behalf and make decisions and manage whatever is there, the income and the assets for his benefit, which he's unable to do. So typically, what you would have done is, rather than just simply saying everything goes out right to my husband, you would direct it, if you predeceased your husband, into a trust for his benefit.
And similar to an executor who manages the estate, a trustee would manage the trust that would receive the assets and the income. And that could be a trusted child or a relative, or a professional trustee, or a financial institution, but they would use those resources for your husband's housing and health care and living expenses and other needs, rather than giving him unrestricted control of the money when he's unable to make decisions. So that would be the normal way to go. The challenge is, I don't know that that's going to be able to be put in place with his inability to sign legal documents just because of his mental capacity. So I would be engaging with an elder care attorney to talk through the various options here so that you are well prepared if you predecease your husband.
Deborah: Okay, so yeah, I was thinking that. If I change the will now, I can't say that he has does it with—what's the wording about, you know, I do I do this knowing exactly what I'm doing. Right. So so basically, okay. All right. So I need an elder...
Rob West: Yeah, it's an elder law attorney. Elder law. So they specialize in law and estate planning related to elders, related to seniors. And so they would be uniquely skilled in these kinds of things related to, you know, trusts and estates, including when, you know, one spouse has an inability to act legally based on a mental capacity.
Deborah: And I just go to my local bar association and there'll be somebody that does this?
Rob West: It's a good question. I would probably reach out to a Certified Kingdom Advisor there in Virginia and ask for a referral, because you'd want someone who shares your values and, you know, would be personally referred. All, you know, financial planners and wealth managers have estate planning attorneys they refer to. And so I would just go to findacKa.com, that's findaCKA.com, and you could do a zip code search there in Virginia, and any of those Certified Kingdom Advisors could make a referral.
Deborah: Oh, wonderful. All right, well, thank you so very much for your help.
Rob West: Absolutely, Deborah. Call anytime. Thanks for being on the program today. 800-525-7000. We do have some lines open, and we're taking your questions throughout this segment and the next, and then Jerry Bowyer and Walker Wildmon will be here. Let's go out to Texas. Nathaniel, how can I help you?
Nathaniel: Hi. Hello. I'm about 23 years old. I started my own business when I was early in the year. Um, I just inherited about 25 grand. I gave 5 grand to my mom to pay off some of her bills so she can have some freedom. And I'm just curious as what to do with the rest of it. And I just got it sitting in the bank. I haven't touched it in about a month. I don't I don't know what to do with it, to be honest with you.
Rob West: Yeah. Well, first of all, I'm so glad you called. Second, that was so generous of you to care for your mom in that way. I love that. Third, I'm delighted to hear you haven't made any decisions, because anytime you get a windfall, it's always a good idea just to take a breath and take and pause for a moment, and think and pray about how to use it rather than kind of rushing in to a decision, especially when it's not clear.
So let me do this. After the break, I'll kind of walk you through how I would think about it in order, starting with a personal safety net, then a business cash reserve, and then maybe third, you know, thinking about investing in your business, whether that's tools or something else. But, you know, anytime we're not dealing with an established career or business, you know, I think we just need to be careful about the priority order of how we use a windfall like this. We'll pick this up, Nathaniel, on the other side of the break. Stay right there.
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Rob West: Thanks for joining us today on Faith and Finance here on American Family Radio. I'm Rob West. Coming up in our next segment, Jerry Bowyer stops by. We'll get his take on the news of the day. A lot stronger—like three times stronger—than expected on the jobs report this morning. That's causing the market to sell off. The President out, saying, "Listen, I need the Fed to slash rates or I'm going to end trade with countries with US surpluses." We'll get Jerry's take on that. Also, an update on corporate engagement—the work of AFA in that really important space. But first, we're taking your calls today. Before the break, we talked to Nathaniel. He's 23, he's working full-time, he started a construction business this year, and he's inherited $25,000. Gave his mom $5,000 to give her a little cushion and pay some bills, wondering how he should use the rest. Should he invest it like in the stock market? Should he buy tools for the company? You know, something else? And, you know, it's a great question to ask, Nathaniel. It's a great position to be in. I'm glad you're going slow. And both of those things you mentioned are good. The question is, what is the right priority order of using this money? And I would say, you know, one first thing would be a personal emergency fund. So if you don't already have one, I'd love for you to have 3 to 6 months expenses in a savings account, especially when you're starting a business, because, you know, a brand-new business where, you know, income and cash flow is unpredictable just means that you're going to need that reserve there personally. And then, you're also going to need a business cash reserve. You know, construction can require money for materials, and payroll, and subcontractors—I realize you're probably doing it all yourself—but insurance and repairs, jobs where customers haven't paid, you know, all of those require the business to have some cash reserve afloat, if you will. And then third would be buying tools, but only when there's a business case for it. You know, so the question is this: "If I spend..."—I'll pick a number—"$5,000 on this piece of equipment, how much additional revenue or profit will it allow me to generate?" So if a $5,000 tool allows you to take jobs you're currently turning down, or it eliminates thousands of dollars in rental expense, well, then investing in your own business could produce a better return than putting that $5,000 in the stock market. You know, buying $20,000 worth of tools simply because you have $20,000 isn't a strategy. So we need to be really judicious and ask, you know, maybe you make a list of tools you're considering and ask which ones will actually make you money, and then buy the tools that have a clear return rather than buying everything at once. And then lastly—and this is very important as well, but I think it does come last in this order—would be investing something for yourself. The good news is you're young. You've got time on your side. But as soon as you could establish a Roth IRA and start contributing to it at 23 or 24 or 25, you know, that's really going to pay off for you down the road in retirement, even just putting in a little bit each month and getting it invested in a total market index and just not touching it, you know, will serve you really well when you're 60 or older. So anyway, give me your thoughts on all that.
Nathaniel: Yeah, I like—I like the reserve, and I wasn't planning on putting a bunch of money in tools, 'cause the stuff I do doesn't require heavy equipment or anything, maybe like a trailer or something. But, um, yeah, I would only maybe need like 2-3 grand to get into some tools, but I like the reserve idea. That's definitely good. I'd probably put 10 grand or something aside just to leave it there and not touch it, you know.
Rob West: Yeah, yeah, very good. I think that's great, and I think that'll serve you well. I just think you ought to just really be judicious about what you spend money on in terms of equipment and tools and make sure that you see a clear path to a return on that investment. You know, if you having a trailer is going to allow you to, you know, be a lot more efficient or take on jobs you couldn't otherwise, or, you know, make one trip to the—to the job site, and now all of a sudden, you know, you're finishing jobs in, you know, one day where, you know, it would have spread over two days 'cause you're making multiple trips. I mean, those are the kinds of things where you can see a real pathway to a return on the investment, that's great. But don't just do it because you need something a little newer and it's not really going to help you.
Nathaniel: Yeah, for sure. For sure. Okay, well...
Rob West: Thanks for your call today, my friend. God bless you, and if I can help further along the way, don't hesitate to reach out. Uh, let's go to Texas. Jim, go ahead.
Jim: Yes, sir. My wife and I are taking care of our 99-year-old father—her father. She is now—had her name put on his bank account, her and her sister. Are they responsible for the earnings on those accounts? In other words, is it income to them because they are now, I think, considered co-owners of the account?
Rob West: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, so there's the—there's separate questions here: the legal ownership, and then who owes the tax on the income it produces. So if—if she's a true joint owner, she has the ability to access and withdraw funds while dad is alive, and many have right of survivorship, meaning that, you know, the—she receives the account at her dad's death, although the account agreement would need to be verified. But being listed on the account doesn't automatically mean she owes income tax on all the interest. You know, federal tax treatment depends on who actually owns the money, and there's applicable state law ownership. So if he contributed all the money and the daughter is essentially on the account for convenience, then the interest may still properly belong to dad for his—for tax purposes. The IRS has something called nominee rules when a—a form, you know, 1099-INT for interest is issued to one person for interest that actually belongs to someone else. So, you know, I think you'd want to clarify, you know, "Is my wife a joint owner, an authorized signer, or simply an agent under, you know, power of attorney?" Sounds like it's joint owner. Does the account have right of survivorship? And whose Social Security number is being used for the 1099-INT, which is the document that reports the interest? Does that make sense?
Jim: Yeah, so I do get that information from the bank, and they would be able to tell us which it really is.
Rob West: They would. They'd be able to tell you about the title on the account. They'd also tell you how the interest is being reported to Social Security, and then, you know, if it's—if it's really her dad's money and the income's going, you know, to him, and she's just listed on there for convenience, then you'd probably want to talk to your CPA about making sure that that's being reported properly under his tax return.
Jim: Very good. We do—I just wanted to make sure that we wouldn't later... A lot of his accounts are payable on death accounts, and so she doesn't own those, but they will become hers when he dies, and that's a real convenient thing, too.
Rob West: It sure is, yeah, 'cause that's going to bypass probate and come directly to her, but she doesn't have any, you know, rights to the account now. It just creates an efficient transfer at death, which is different than what you're describing here, uh, you know, for the—for the accounts where she is actually a co-owner, uh, likely joint tenants, perhaps with right of survivorship. So, yeah, I would just clarify all that—both the legal ownership side as well as the—the tax side, and make sure you understand what's going on there. Thanks for your call, Jim. Hope that helps you today. We appreciate you being on the program. Well, we're going to head to our next break here, and we'll have Walker Wildmon and Jerry Bowyer join us in the final segment. We'll get Jerry to weigh in on the economy. We've got some news out today related to jobs. In fact, a much stronger than expected jobs report—like by three times. There was an expectation of around 56,000 jobs added in August. Just so happens US payrolls rose by 162,000, much more than unexpected, and unemployment held steady. Good news, right? Well, the market's selling off. Why? Well, that means the Fed is much less likely to cut, probably hold, maybe increase. The President doesn't like that, so he's out with some demands this morning. We'll get Jerry to weigh in on all of it straight ahead. Stay with us. This is Faith and Finance.
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Rob West: American Family Association making real strides toward advocating for Christian values in the marketplace through corporate engagement. We'll talk with Walker Wildmon straight ahead about the most recent updates, but first, Jerry Bowyer is here. Jerry, here's our upside-down economy. You know, we get this jobs report three times stronger than expected. The market, of course, selling off because that means, uh-oh, nowhere near any kind of cut in interest rates. Then the president comes out this morning and says to the Fed, "You need to slash rates or I'm going to end trade with countries with US surpluses." Weigh in on all of this.
Jerry Bowyer: Well, yeah, it's the upside-down economy. It's basically kind of a situation where you look at the vitals of the patient, and if the patient is doing poorly, then it's like, "Oh, great news, you get painkillers." Or if the patient's doing well, "Oh, bad news, you don't get the painkillers," because that's what easy money is. Easy money in our economy—going back to Keynes, John Maynard Keynes, the atheist who created what's called the New Economics, which is really the establishment economics—is that the economy is about mood, or he called it "animal spirits." And so, what you need to do is debase the currency to get money out there, make everyone feel rich—they call it the wealth effect—make everyone feel rich so they'll spend. Biblical economics is based on work and productivity, with spending as the result of that. You earn it by—you have to do something useful for somebody else in order to have the money to hire somebody to do something useful for you. But for Keynes, it was all about mood. So, and that's kind of how the economy's been working for a long time with the central bank. When things are doing well, the central bank says, "Oh, okay, well, we're not going to—we're not going to give anyone the Keynesian painkiller. We're not going to loosen the mood. We're not going to—take away the punch bowl if the party's getting too good."
And so, we saw this morning a really good jobs report. Now, I would say good compared to expectations. We are—we're a big enough nation that we should probably be pretty consistently producing, you know, 100—more than 162,000 jobs a month. So, but it's better than expected, and it was kind of normal. That was a normal jobs report, let's put it that way. But we didn't expect a normal jobs report, and that's why people are popping corks. And so immediately, what happens? Well, the markets sell off. The stock market sells off. The gold market sells off, too, because the central bank, you know, maybe they're not going to have to boost the economy with easy money because, look, the labor market's doing okay. So, people who are investing in stocks because of easy money pull back. People who are investing in gold as a hedge against that easy money, they pull back. It also means the dollar's more valuable because we're going to be printing fewer of them. Just like any work of art, if you print fewer of it, it's worth more, and so the dollar got stronger.
So, pretty much when you see the stock market selling off, and the bond market selling off, and gold selling off, and the dollar getting stronger, then you look at the futures market for interest rates, you know what that is. That is a "the Fed is not going to pump new money into the system to make people feel better" trade. So, that's why markets act almost the opposite of the economic statistics, because they're not about how strong the economy is; they're about what we think the central bank is going to do in response to a strong or weak economic reading.
Rob West: Yeah, that's really helpful, and unfortunately, it's just the same song, second verse. We see this over and over again. Jerry, then obviously the president coming out and saying, "Great jobs number just announced, breaking all estimates, best that it's ever been in the history of the world." But he also knows that that means interest rates aren't likely to go lower. So, he's saying lower—here's the all caps: "Lower the rate or else I'll stop trading with countries with which we have a deficit." What are your thoughts on that?
Jerry Bowyer: I don't—I can't find any economic principle that reflects that. Basically, "Lower interest rates or I'm going to hold the whole economy hostage." It's kind of a strange tactic for a president to use because, you know, he's supposed to be in favor of the economy. It's perfectly fine that we have quote "deficits," trade deficits with other countries, because the trade deficits only count goods and services; they don't count investment. So, in almost every case, if we run a quote "deficit" with another country, what that means is that we buy more of their stuff, but they buy more of our stocks and bonds. So, you know, we're buying goods and services from them, and they're investing in us. Because dollars are not really worth much outside of the United States.
So, if we buy cars from Japan, so we're sending dollars to Japan and they send us cars. Now, you might not like us buying Japanese cars, whatever, but that's how it works now. So, what are they going to do with all those dollars? Well, they don't spend them in Tokyo, right? Those dollars come back here. So, what do they do? They reinvest in us. So, the flow is: they send us cars, we send them dollars, they send those dollars back in the form of investments. They buy our bonds. Well, we're concerned that interest rates are going to go higher. Well, you know, they stop our interest rates from going higher by lending us money.
So, I'm not saying the system is ideal. All I'm saying is that's the system that we've kind of cobbled together after World War II. Under that system, we've become the greatest economy in the history of the world. It's not perfect. Look, I live in Pittsburgh; I get that when people were buying cars or steel from overseas, that certainly had some problems. I've lived in steel towns my whole life. I see the problems associated with that. But I also understand that just like disrupting the system like we're protestors, you know, to kind of pressure the Fed into debasing our currency, I don't see how that's going to help things at all. And by the way, I say that as someone who generally loves the president's deregulation agenda, I love the president's tax-cutting agenda, but maybe someone needs to take his Truth Social account away for a while and just let good policy work itself out.
Rob West: Well, I'm sure Fed Chair Warsh's phone is lighting up this morning. I don't envy his job, but we'll certainly keep an eye on all of it and continue to talk about it. All right, let's turn the corner. Walker Wildmon's here. Walker, let's talk corporate engagement. Tell us what you all have been working on.
Walker Wildmon: Yeah, Rob, glad to be with you today, and I'm actually in studio for the first time in a long time instead of on the phone like I usually am. But hey, Jerry and I and Bowyer Research and AFA were working on a couple proposals as we head into shareholder season. The first one that I've mentioned before is with Apple, and we had a good victory with Apple on protecting children and minors on their devices within the last 24 months. But right now, we're focused on having a discussion with Apple through the shareholder engagement process about their donations to the Southern Poverty Law Center. Previously, within the last five to seven years, Apple had given over a million dollars to the Southern Poverty Law Center. And so, we're looking to have a discussion with Apple to ensure that they're not giving to that group anymore for a variety of reasons, the primary reason is that they demonize and defame Christian organizations, which is a very unfair tactic and isn't worthy of Apple dollars.
Secondly, we're going to be putting forth a proposal with Bank of New York Mellon on their charitable giving policies. So, what's going on here and what has happened with other companies is they have charitable gift matching where they'll say, for example, "If an employee gives $100 to a charity, then we'll give 50 or whatever, fill in the blank on the percentage." But then some of these companies have put exclusions in these charitable giving match policies to where they say, "Well, if they're a Christian organization, they're not getting our match." Or, "If they're a conservative political group, they're not getting our match." Well, that's problematic because now you're excluding Christians and conservatives from the charitable matching program. So, that's what we're looking at with Bank of New York Mellon and also Apple as well when it comes to the SPLC partnership.
Rob West: Incredible. You know, Jerry, it strikes me that, as shareholders of these companies, we have different approaches. We can honor our conscience and just avoid them all together, and that's perfectly appropriate. On the other end of the spectrum, though, is leaning in and affecting change, the kind of change that Walker's talking about, right?
Jerry Bowyer: Yeah, absolutely. And Apple is a great example of that because Apple is a stock that many Christians feel, or maybe they've been told, "You're not allowed to own that," because, you know, they have a Gay Pride Day, or because you can download indecent material on your Apple phone. Now, if somebody believes that, they absolutely should follow their conscience, like it says in Romans 14: "Whatever is not of faith is sin." But AFA owned the stock, and AFA was able to get them to make changes. So, there is a trade-off here, and so when people are thinking about "What can I invest in, what can I not invest in?", just understand that, just like in any other relationship, if you break off from somebody or shun them, you're probably not going to improve the relationship or have much influence. And now, sometimes you have to do that, and I get that, so I'm not saying nobody should. But I am saying that there's an alternative. And what I find is very often when Christians find out that there is an alternative—their first reaction was, "Disney did what? I'm angry, I'm going to sell Disney." Perfectly understandable. But then once they learn, "Oh, wait a minute, you can put a shareholder proposal and speak at the annual meeting, or someone can?", that's really important, and by and large, I see Christians saying, "Well, if I can have a voice, I'd rather have the voice."
Rob West: Yes, exactly right. And Walker, the great news is this is not just perfunctory. I mean, we're seeing real change and movement from these companies, right?
Walker Wildmon: Yeah, we are. And to Jerry's point, the reality is that in this capitalist economy and this free market system, these multi-billion—and some of them heading over a trillion dollars in value—they have tremendous power and leverage over the culture, over politics, over policy. And so, for us to not be at the table conversing with them and convincing them of our worldview would just be negligent. So, that's why we're at the table. That's why we're having this discussion.
Rob West: Yeah, and that just underscores the opportunity. If you love AFA and you want to make a gift of appreciated stock—I'm sure you've got plenty of those this year as we head toward year-end—rather than selling and giving, why don't you give the stock, let AFA decide if there's an engagement opportunity there, let them then meet with that company, affect change, then sell it and use it? Might as well get a double bottom line there. Well, gentlemen, we appreciate your time today. Walker, thanks for being in studio. Sounds great, and we'll see you next week.
Walker Wildmon: All right, thanks, Rob.
Rob West: All right, thanks, Jerry.
Jerry Bowyer: Thanks, buddy.
Rob West: Well, that's going to do it for us. So thankful to have you along with us today on Faith & Finance here on American Family Radio. We covered a lot of ground. We started with God owns it all and understanding that money issues are heart issues. And then we got to talk to some amazing AFR listeners about their financial situations: investing in a small business from a 20-year-old, all the way to how do we prepare for the real reality of a husband with dementia and just wanting to make sure he's properly cared for with regard to the finances if he outlives his wife. And then finishing out today with the amazing work of AFA in corporate engagement. Hey, have a great long weekend. Come back and join us next week. Lord bless you. Bye-bye.
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Rob West: Money has a way of reaching places in our lives that nothing else does. It touches our fears, our desires, our relationships, and our sense of security. I am Rob West. That's why Jesus said, "Where your treasure is, there your heart will be also." He knew something we often miss: money issues are heart issues. Today we're exploring how our financial lives reveal what's happening inside us, and how God invites us into freedom and trust. Then it's on to your calls at 800-525-7000. That's 800-525-7000. This is Faith & Finance on American Family Radio. Biblical wisdom for your financial decisions.
Years ago, my friend and mentor, Ron Blue, told me a story from his time in Kenya that has shaped my entire approach to stewardship. He was sitting on a hillside with a local pastor. They were looking out over the village where the man lived, and Ron asked what he thought was a practical question. He said, "What's the greatest barrier to the spread of the Gospel here?" Remember, he's in Kenya. He expected to hear about money, transportation, or a lack of resources, but the pastor didn't hesitate. He said, "Materialism." Ron was stunned. Surely materialism was a Western issue, but the pastor went on. He said, "If a man has a mud hut, he wants a stone hut. If he has a thatch roof, he wants a metal one. If he has one cow, he wants two." Well, in that moment, Ron realized something profound: materialism is not about how much you have. It's about what your heart longs for. Because if materialism can thrive in a mud hut every bit as easily as in an American suburb, then money is not the root problem—the heart is. Money simply exposes what's already there: our desires, our fears, our loyalties, our trust.
That's exactly what Jesus teaches. Money isn't moral or immoral; it's a tool. But because it touches nearly every part of our life, it becomes one of the greatest indicators of what we trust, desire, and worship. When we overspend, it may reflect a longing for identity or approval. When we cling tightly to savings, it may reveal where we seek security. When we fall into debt, it might reveal impatience or a desire to live outside of God's provision. When we resist generosity, it may reveal fear that God won't provide. In all these cases, the dollars are secondary; the heart is primary.
The good news is this: God cares deeply about the state of our hearts, and He invites us to experience freedom—freedom from fear, from comparison, from striving, from the false belief that everything depends on us. Over years of studying Scripture and walking with listeners and families through financial decisions, a few core truths have become foundational for me:
First, God owns it all. Ownership determines responsibility. If everything belongs to Him, then we stop clinging to money as if our lives depend on it. We begin managing it as stewards: grateful, humble, and free.
Second, God is our provider. The Scriptures remind us that He feeds the birds and clothes the lilies, and we, His children, are worth far more. When we believe that, fear begins to loosen its grip.
Third, money is a tool, not a treasure. It was never meant to bear the weight of our identity or security. It was meant to serve God's purposes: meeting needs, blessing others, advancing the Gospel, and reflecting the generosity of the One who gave everything for us.
And fourth, our financial decisions are acts of worship. Every spending choice, every giving decision, every act of planning becomes an opportunity to honor God. When we begin asking, "How can I serve You with this?", money stops being a rival and becomes a means of discipleship.
These aren't theoretical ideas. They're the truths that shape every page of my devotional, Our Ultimate Treasure: A 21-Day Journey to Faithful Stewardship. I wrote it to help you walk through these core biblical principles and see how deeply they shape your daily financial decisions. Here's my hope: that as you read it, you'll experience God's peace growing where fear once lived, contentment where comparison once thrived, and generosity where self-protection once dominated.
You can grab your copy of Our Ultimate Treasure or place a bulk order for your church or small group today at faithfi.com/shop. That's faithfi.com/shop. And if you want to support the ministry with a gift of $35 a month or $400 a year, you'll become a FaithFi Partner. You'll receive each of our new studies and devotionals as they release, ministry updates every quarter, pro access to the FaithFi app, as well as a copy of our quarterly magazine, Faithful Steward. Just go to faithfi.com/give to learn more.
Folks, in the end, money will always reveal what we treasure most. And when Christ is our ultimate treasure, we experience a freedom no amount of money can offer. Your calls are next: 800-525-7000. We'll be right back after this.
David Wollen: For your walk with Jesus, I'm David Wollen with Haven Today, inviting you to anchor your day in God's Word. It's amazing how quickly and easily weeds grow. There are some weeds that grow close to the good plants, mimicking their appearance. Others send their roots down deep and intertwine them with the roots of the good plants. So, there's no way around it—if you want fruitfulness, you have to pull the weeds often and quickly. In the parable of the sower, Jesus talked about the seed that fell among the weeds and the thorns. He explained to his disciples, this is what it's like when someone hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, making it unfruitful. So, don't wait. Pull those spiritual weeds that are choking your walk with Jesus, and you'll get more encouragement to follow Him at haventoday.org.
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Rob West: So glad you're with us today on Faith & Finance here on American Family Radio. I'm Rob West. Well, as we round out the week this week, we want to finish by tackling those questions. Wouldn't it be nice to head into this long weekend with a checkmark by that question you've been wrestling with in your financial life? Well, we'd love to see if we can help with that. Call right now, 800-525-7000. What questions are in play? Well, really anything financial. As you spend, save, and give, you may want to give more wisely. Maybe you're in that fourth quarter of life looking for some other giving options. Don't forget, you know, Ron Blue says—I mentioned Ron in the opening segment, I'll give you another "Ron-ism": Do your giving while you're living so you're knowing where it's going. Isn't that great? And, you know, I think it's tongue-in-cheek and we say it with a smile, but the truth behind it is really powerful. And that is that, you know, so often we plan to do most of our giving at the end of life when some have accumulated more than they'll ever need and could get it into circulation in God's economy right now. Don't miss that opportunity.
Now, you may be listening saying, "Wait a minute, Rob. I'm on the other end of the spectrum. I'm just trying to balance the budget and get food on the table, and trying to put a little aside for my emergency fund or for retirement, but I'm struggling." And that's a reality as well. And I'd love to try to come alongside and encourage and equip you wherever you find yourself. Maybe you're in between thinking about, "How's the best way to position my retirement account?" or "I just want to get my credit score up because I need to get a home equity line of credit to do some improvements," or "I need to buy a car and I'm going to have to take on a small loan, and I'd really like to qualify for the very best rates and terms," especially with rates a little bit higher right now. We can talk about that as well.
So, any financial question today, our promise to you is to be encouraging, to take you back to God's Word, to always try to give you wise counsel rooted in a biblical worldview based on timeless wisdom—not mine, wisdom from God's Word. 800-525-7000 is the number to call. We have lines open at the moment, so you can call right now: 800-525-7000.
We're going to begin in Virginia in just a moment. But first, in the news today, the latest snapshot of the US labor market arrived this morning, and it was considerably stronger than economists expected. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, employers added 162,000 jobs in August while the unemployment rate held steady at 4.1%. Economists had expected job growth of only about 56,000, so this was 3x what they were expecting. You might think the market would soar on that. Not so. Markets selling off today. Why? Well, it's this upside-down world we're in where strong economic data means less likely that the Fed will cut interest rates, therefore the market doesn't like it and sells off.
Well, President Trump making some news on his own, telling the Fed to slash rates or he'll end trade with countries with US surpluses. He knows what's going on here as this economy just continues to barrel forward. He knows that inflation's been a little stickier than the Fed wants, and he's trying to exert his authority to encourage the Fed, I'll say, through his various means, to lower interest rates, because the likelihood is, given what's going on, especially on the heels of this much stronger than expected jobs report, that they're going to hold steady, if not increase, interest rates. He certainly doesn't want that, especially heading into the midterms. So, we'll get Jerry Bowyer's take on all of that a little later in the broadcast. He'll stop by with Walker Wildmon to give us his end-of-the-week market and economic update, and then we'll talk corporate engagement. What's going on with AFA and the engagements they're having with the biggest companies in the world to advocate for Christian values? Well, you'll hear some of the latest in our final segment today. Always encouraging to hear those reports from Walker and Jerry.
All right, we're going to dive into your questions. Lines are open. Call right now with any financial question: 800-525-7000. I'd love to talk to you today. Let's begin in Virginia. Deborah, go right ahead.
Deborah: Oh, thank you very much. I am 76. My husband is 82. We've been retired for a number of years now. Very early in our marriage, my husband gave me the checkbook and said, "Here, I want you to be responsible. You take care of all the finances." And so I said, "Okay." And over the years, I've tried to be a faithful steward, and I thought that I was making very wise decisions. But then recently, you said something that kind of gave me pause, and this is my dilemma. I have put everything—I mean everything: the house, the cars, the bank accounts, all of our investments—everything is in both of our names. And our will stipulates that the first one to die gets everything, and then the second one, well, it gets distributed. My question is, whoever of us is the first to go, in that interim period while everything is getting taken care of surrounding the death, will the one who is living have difficulty accessing our accounts because they're in both of our names?
Rob West: Yeah, great question, and the answer is no. You've handled this in the right way. And I think what you're getting at here is, if he dies first, or vice versa, will the other suddenly be unable to pay the bills while everything gets sorted out? And if you've truly structured your bank and taxable investment accounts jointly with rights of survivorship, the answer is generally no. You wouldn't have to wait for the will to be probated to become the owner of those joint assets. With a joint bank account with survivorship rights, the surviving owner generally continues to own the account.
There can be an administrative transition period where you'll need the death certificates and the banks and brokerage firms have procedures for removing the deceased spouse's name or retitling the accounts. They may require specific information for that. But that's very different from the money being locked in probate for months. The bigger concern would be, even if you already have legal access, do you practically know where everything is, and vice versa, and how to operate it? Because you've been the one managing all the finances, if for some reason—and I know, on average, women live longer than men, but let's say you pre-deceased him—does he know the banks, and the investment firms, and how the bills are paid, and where Social Security and other income is deposited, and who the financial professionals are, and where the will and estate documents are located? That would be an important thing to make sure that both of you know and have access to. But again, if everything is titled jointly with right of survivorship, there should not be an access issue.
Deborah: Okay, so I just need to make sure that that is true. Is that ordinarily true, or does it have to be specified when we're setting up those accounts?
Rob West: Yeah, it's a great question. Yeah, with the right of survivorship, it's very common for joint and brokerage accounts to be set up with right of survivorship, so I would expect that's the way it is. But you don't want to assume it just because both names are on the account. So I think one action step would just be to ask the question: Is this titled joint tenants with right of survivorship, or your state's equivalent, such that when your husband passes or vice versa, his interest or your interest passes directly to the surviving owner rather than waiting for will and probate? And you could just confirm titled jointly with right of survivorship. I assume that will be the case; doesn't hurt to ask. Thanks for your call, Deborah. God bless you. We'll be right back.
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Announcer: American Family Association is on the front lines in the culture war in America. We've been here for more than 40 years fighting for the biblical principles our nation was founded upon. And by God's grace, we are making a difference. Contact the AFA Foundation today to learn how you can shore up permanent income for your retirement years while supporting American Family Association. Phone 800-326-4543, extension 345.
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Rob West: Delighted to have you with us today on Faith & Finance here on American Family Radio. On a Friday, we're taking your calls and questions, anything financial, 800-525-7000. Just like all the programming here on American Family Radio, operating from a biblical worldview, helping you live according to God's Word and live as a faithful steward. We steward lots of things, including God's money, and we want to help you do that today.
Coming up in our final segment of the broadcast today, Jerry Bowyer stops by. Much stronger than expected jobs report today; markets selling off as a result. Why is that? Well, we'll get Jerry's take on that in our final segment. We'll also get an update from Jerry and Walker on the recent activity with regard to AFA and corporate engagement. Never a shortage of exciting things to talk about in that segment.
Before the break, we were talking to Deborah in Virginia. She was wanting to be sure that when she or her husband passed away, that there would still be access to the accounts. We talked about the importance of joint tenants with right of survivorship to be able to have continued access even while the accounts were being retitled. But Deborah, I know you had a follow-up question. Go ahead with that.
Deborah: Uh, yes, based on on what you said, um, you know, making sure that my husband knows about everything, my husband has extreme dementia. Hm. And so I'm in the process now of trying to put together a list of everything for my executor. And I I just need to make sure um what kind of pitfalls, uh, I'm I'm trying to understand what kind of pitfalls may occur if I should go first, even if I've got everything laid down, you know, this is where this is, and this is where that is, and this is the pass code to everything. Yeah. Is is there anything else I need to be be aware of?
Rob West: Yeah, I'm so glad you mentioned this. I think there is here, and it does change the planning quite a bit. Let me ask a question, though, first. You said he has severe dementia currently, so does he have, according to your understanding at this point, sufficient legal capacity right now to sign or amend documents?
Deborah: Not really.
Rob West: Okay, yeah.
Deborah: I mean, he's he's he's okay in that I I take him to an adult day care three days a week. Yeah. And and but he doesn't really understand anything that's going on.
Rob West: Hm, yeah, I'm so sorry. Well, yeah, the challenge is that the executor, you know, could be fully informed on where everything's located, but that executor's role is limited to just administering the estate and helping to distribute assets. The problem is, we need somebody who can act on your husband's behalf and make decisions and manage whatever is there, the income and the assets for his benefit, which he's unable to do. So typically, what you would have done is, rather than just simply saying everything goes out right to my husband, you would direct it, if you predeceased your husband, into a trust for his benefit.
And similar to an executor who manages the estate, a trustee would manage the trust that would receive the assets and the income. And that could be a trusted child or a relative, or a professional trustee, or a financial institution, but they would use those resources for your husband's housing and health care and living expenses and other needs, rather than giving him unrestricted control of the money when he's unable to make decisions. So that would be the normal way to go. The challenge is, I don't know that that's going to be able to be put in place with his inability to sign legal documents just because of his mental capacity. So I would be engaging with an elder care attorney to talk through the various options here so that you are well prepared if you predecease your husband.
Deborah: Okay, so yeah, I was thinking that. If I change the will now, I can't say that he has does it with—what's the wording about, you know, I do I do this knowing exactly what I'm doing. Right. So so basically, okay. All right. So I need an elder...
Rob West: Yeah, it's an elder law attorney. Elder law. So they specialize in law and estate planning related to elders, related to seniors. And so they would be uniquely skilled in these kinds of things related to, you know, trusts and estates, including when, you know, one spouse has an inability to act legally based on a mental capacity.
Deborah: And I just go to my local bar association and there'll be somebody that does this?
Rob West: It's a good question. I would probably reach out to a Certified Kingdom Advisor there in Virginia and ask for a referral, because you'd want someone who shares your values and, you know, would be personally referred. All, you know, financial planners and wealth managers have estate planning attorneys they refer to. And so I would just go to findacKa.com, that's findaCKA.com, and you could do a zip code search there in Virginia, and any of those Certified Kingdom Advisors could make a referral.
Deborah: Oh, wonderful. All right, well, thank you so very much for your help.
Rob West: Absolutely, Deborah. Call anytime. Thanks for being on the program today. 800-525-7000. We do have some lines open, and we're taking your questions throughout this segment and the next, and then Jerry Bowyer and Walker Wildmon will be here. Let's go out to Texas. Nathaniel, how can I help you?
Nathaniel: Hi. Hello. I'm about 23 years old. I started my own business when I was early in the year. Um, I just inherited about 25 grand. I gave 5 grand to my mom to pay off some of her bills so she can have some freedom. And I'm just curious as what to do with the rest of it. And I just got it sitting in the bank. I haven't touched it in about a month. I don't I don't know what to do with it, to be honest with you.
Rob West: Yeah. Well, first of all, I'm so glad you called. Second, that was so generous of you to care for your mom in that way. I love that. Third, I'm delighted to hear you haven't made any decisions, because anytime you get a windfall, it's always a good idea just to take a breath and take and pause for a moment, and think and pray about how to use it rather than kind of rushing in to a decision, especially when it's not clear.
So let me do this. After the break, I'll kind of walk you through how I would think about it in order, starting with a personal safety net, then a business cash reserve, and then maybe third, you know, thinking about investing in your business, whether that's tools or something else. But, you know, anytime we're not dealing with an established career or business, you know, I think we just need to be careful about the priority order of how we use a windfall like this. We'll pick this up, Nathaniel, on the other side of the break. Stay right there.
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Rob West: Thanks for joining us today on Faith and Finance here on American Family Radio. I'm Rob West. Coming up in our next segment, Jerry Bowyer stops by. We'll get his take on the news of the day. A lot stronger—like three times stronger—than expected on the jobs report this morning. That's causing the market to sell off. The President out, saying, "Listen, I need the Fed to slash rates or I'm going to end trade with countries with US surpluses." We'll get Jerry's take on that. Also, an update on corporate engagement—the work of AFA in that really important space. But first, we're taking your calls today. Before the break, we talked to Nathaniel. He's 23, he's working full-time, he started a construction business this year, and he's inherited $25,000. Gave his mom $5,000 to give her a little cushion and pay some bills, wondering how he should use the rest. Should he invest it like in the stock market? Should he buy tools for the company? You know, something else? And, you know, it's a great question to ask, Nathaniel. It's a great position to be in. I'm glad you're going slow. And both of those things you mentioned are good. The question is, what is the right priority order of using this money? And I would say, you know, one first thing would be a personal emergency fund. So if you don't already have one, I'd love for you to have 3 to 6 months expenses in a savings account, especially when you're starting a business, because, you know, a brand-new business where, you know, income and cash flow is unpredictable just means that you're going to need that reserve there personally. And then, you're also going to need a business cash reserve. You know, construction can require money for materials, and payroll, and subcontractors—I realize you're probably doing it all yourself—but insurance and repairs, jobs where customers haven't paid, you know, all of those require the business to have some cash reserve afloat, if you will. And then third would be buying tools, but only when there's a business case for it. You know, so the question is this: "If I spend..."—I'll pick a number—"$5,000 on this piece of equipment, how much additional revenue or profit will it allow me to generate?" So if a $5,000 tool allows you to take jobs you're currently turning down, or it eliminates thousands of dollars in rental expense, well, then investing in your own business could produce a better return than putting that $5,000 in the stock market. You know, buying $20,000 worth of tools simply because you have $20,000 isn't a strategy. So we need to be really judicious and ask, you know, maybe you make a list of tools you're considering and ask which ones will actually make you money, and then buy the tools that have a clear return rather than buying everything at once. And then lastly—and this is very important as well, but I think it does come last in this order—would be investing something for yourself. The good news is you're young. You've got time on your side. But as soon as you could establish a Roth IRA and start contributing to it at 23 or 24 or 25, you know, that's really going to pay off for you down the road in retirement, even just putting in a little bit each month and getting it invested in a total market index and just not touching it, you know, will serve you really well when you're 60 or older. So anyway, give me your thoughts on all that.
Nathaniel: Yeah, I like—I like the reserve, and I wasn't planning on putting a bunch of money in tools, 'cause the stuff I do doesn't require heavy equipment or anything, maybe like a trailer or something. But, um, yeah, I would only maybe need like 2-3 grand to get into some tools, but I like the reserve idea. That's definitely good. I'd probably put 10 grand or something aside just to leave it there and not touch it, you know.
Rob West: Yeah, yeah, very good. I think that's great, and I think that'll serve you well. I just think you ought to just really be judicious about what you spend money on in terms of equipment and tools and make sure that you see a clear path to a return on that investment. You know, if you having a trailer is going to allow you to, you know, be a lot more efficient or take on jobs you couldn't otherwise, or, you know, make one trip to the—to the job site, and now all of a sudden, you know, you're finishing jobs in, you know, one day where, you know, it would have spread over two days 'cause you're making multiple trips. I mean, those are the kinds of things where you can see a real pathway to a return on the investment, that's great. But don't just do it because you need something a little newer and it's not really going to help you.
Nathaniel: Yeah, for sure. For sure. Okay, well...
Rob West: Thanks for your call today, my friend. God bless you, and if I can help further along the way, don't hesitate to reach out. Uh, let's go to Texas. Jim, go ahead.
Jim: Yes, sir. My wife and I are taking care of our 99-year-old father—her father. She is now—had her name put on his bank account, her and her sister. Are they responsible for the earnings on those accounts? In other words, is it income to them because they are now, I think, considered co-owners of the account?
Rob West: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, so there's the—there's separate questions here: the legal ownership, and then who owes the tax on the income it produces. So if—if she's a true joint owner, she has the ability to access and withdraw funds while dad is alive, and many have right of survivorship, meaning that, you know, the—she receives the account at her dad's death, although the account agreement would need to be verified. But being listed on the account doesn't automatically mean she owes income tax on all the interest. You know, federal tax treatment depends on who actually owns the money, and there's applicable state law ownership. So if he contributed all the money and the daughter is essentially on the account for convenience, then the interest may still properly belong to dad for his—for tax purposes. The IRS has something called nominee rules when a—a form, you know, 1099-INT for interest is issued to one person for interest that actually belongs to someone else. So, you know, I think you'd want to clarify, you know, "Is my wife a joint owner, an authorized signer, or simply an agent under, you know, power of attorney?" Sounds like it's joint owner. Does the account have right of survivorship? And whose Social Security number is being used for the 1099-INT, which is the document that reports the interest? Does that make sense?
Jim: Yeah, so I do get that information from the bank, and they would be able to tell us which it really is.
Rob West: They would. They'd be able to tell you about the title on the account. They'd also tell you how the interest is being reported to Social Security, and then, you know, if it's—if it's really her dad's money and the income's going, you know, to him, and she's just listed on there for convenience, then you'd probably want to talk to your CPA about making sure that that's being reported properly under his tax return.
Jim: Very good. We do—I just wanted to make sure that we wouldn't later... A lot of his accounts are payable on death accounts, and so she doesn't own those, but they will become hers when he dies, and that's a real convenient thing, too.
Rob West: It sure is, yeah, 'cause that's going to bypass probate and come directly to her, but she doesn't have any, you know, rights to the account now. It just creates an efficient transfer at death, which is different than what you're describing here, uh, you know, for the—for the accounts where she is actually a co-owner, uh, likely joint tenants, perhaps with right of survivorship. So, yeah, I would just clarify all that—both the legal ownership side as well as the—the tax side, and make sure you understand what's going on there. Thanks for your call, Jim. Hope that helps you today. We appreciate you being on the program. Well, we're going to head to our next break here, and we'll have Walker Wildmon and Jerry Bowyer join us in the final segment. We'll get Jerry to weigh in on the economy. We've got some news out today related to jobs. In fact, a much stronger than expected jobs report—like by three times. There was an expectation of around 56,000 jobs added in August. Just so happens US payrolls rose by 162,000, much more than unexpected, and unemployment held steady. Good news, right? Well, the market's selling off. Why? Well, that means the Fed is much less likely to cut, probably hold, maybe increase. The President doesn't like that, so he's out with some demands this morning. We'll get Jerry to weigh in on all of it straight ahead. Stay with us. This is Faith and Finance.
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Rob West: American Family Association making real strides toward advocating for Christian values in the marketplace through corporate engagement. We'll talk with Walker Wildmon straight ahead about the most recent updates, but first, Jerry Bowyer is here. Jerry, here's our upside-down economy. You know, we get this jobs report three times stronger than expected. The market, of course, selling off because that means, uh-oh, nowhere near any kind of cut in interest rates. Then the president comes out this morning and says to the Fed, "You need to slash rates or I'm going to end trade with countries with US surpluses." Weigh in on all of this.
Jerry Bowyer: Well, yeah, it's the upside-down economy. It's basically kind of a situation where you look at the vitals of the patient, and if the patient is doing poorly, then it's like, "Oh, great news, you get painkillers." Or if the patient's doing well, "Oh, bad news, you don't get the painkillers," because that's what easy money is. Easy money in our economy—going back to Keynes, John Maynard Keynes, the atheist who created what's called the New Economics, which is really the establishment economics—is that the economy is about mood, or he called it "animal spirits." And so, what you need to do is debase the currency to get money out there, make everyone feel rich—they call it the wealth effect—make everyone feel rich so they'll spend. Biblical economics is based on work and productivity, with spending as the result of that. You earn it by—you have to do something useful for somebody else in order to have the money to hire somebody to do something useful for you. But for Keynes, it was all about mood. So, and that's kind of how the economy's been working for a long time with the central bank. When things are doing well, the central bank says, "Oh, okay, well, we're not going to—we're not going to give anyone the Keynesian painkiller. We're not going to loosen the mood. We're not going to—take away the punch bowl if the party's getting too good."
And so, we saw this morning a really good jobs report. Now, I would say good compared to expectations. We are—we're a big enough nation that we should probably be pretty consistently producing, you know, 100—more than 162,000 jobs a month. So, but it's better than expected, and it was kind of normal. That was a normal jobs report, let's put it that way. But we didn't expect a normal jobs report, and that's why people are popping corks. And so immediately, what happens? Well, the markets sell off. The stock market sells off. The gold market sells off, too, because the central bank, you know, maybe they're not going to have to boost the economy with easy money because, look, the labor market's doing okay. So, people who are investing in stocks because of easy money pull back. People who are investing in gold as a hedge against that easy money, they pull back. It also means the dollar's more valuable because we're going to be printing fewer of them. Just like any work of art, if you print fewer of it, it's worth more, and so the dollar got stronger.
So, pretty much when you see the stock market selling off, and the bond market selling off, and gold selling off, and the dollar getting stronger, then you look at the futures market for interest rates, you know what that is. That is a "the Fed is not going to pump new money into the system to make people feel better" trade. So, that's why markets act almost the opposite of the economic statistics, because they're not about how strong the economy is; they're about what we think the central bank is going to do in response to a strong or weak economic reading.
Rob West: Yeah, that's really helpful, and unfortunately, it's just the same song, second verse. We see this over and over again. Jerry, then obviously the president coming out and saying, "Great jobs number just announced, breaking all estimates, best that it's ever been in the history of the world." But he also knows that that means interest rates aren't likely to go lower. So, he's saying lower—here's the all caps: "Lower the rate or else I'll stop trading with countries with which we have a deficit." What are your thoughts on that?
Jerry Bowyer: I don't—I can't find any economic principle that reflects that. Basically, "Lower interest rates or I'm going to hold the whole economy hostage." It's kind of a strange tactic for a president to use because, you know, he's supposed to be in favor of the economy. It's perfectly fine that we have quote "deficits," trade deficits with other countries, because the trade deficits only count goods and services; they don't count investment. So, in almost every case, if we run a quote "deficit" with another country, what that means is that we buy more of their stuff, but they buy more of our stocks and bonds. So, you know, we're buying goods and services from them, and they're investing in us. Because dollars are not really worth much outside of the United States.
So, if we buy cars from Japan, so we're sending dollars to Japan and they send us cars. Now, you might not like us buying Japanese cars, whatever, but that's how it works now. So, what are they going to do with all those dollars? Well, they don't spend them in Tokyo, right? Those dollars come back here. So, what do they do? They reinvest in us. So, the flow is: they send us cars, we send them dollars, they send those dollars back in the form of investments. They buy our bonds. Well, we're concerned that interest rates are going to go higher. Well, you know, they stop our interest rates from going higher by lending us money.
So, I'm not saying the system is ideal. All I'm saying is that's the system that we've kind of cobbled together after World War II. Under that system, we've become the greatest economy in the history of the world. It's not perfect. Look, I live in Pittsburgh; I get that when people were buying cars or steel from overseas, that certainly had some problems. I've lived in steel towns my whole life. I see the problems associated with that. But I also understand that just like disrupting the system like we're protestors, you know, to kind of pressure the Fed into debasing our currency, I don't see how that's going to help things at all. And by the way, I say that as someone who generally loves the president's deregulation agenda, I love the president's tax-cutting agenda, but maybe someone needs to take his Truth Social account away for a while and just let good policy work itself out.
Rob West: Well, I'm sure Fed Chair Warsh's phone is lighting up this morning. I don't envy his job, but we'll certainly keep an eye on all of it and continue to talk about it. All right, let's turn the corner. Walker Wildmon's here. Walker, let's talk corporate engagement. Tell us what you all have been working on.
Walker Wildmon: Yeah, Rob, glad to be with you today, and I'm actually in studio for the first time in a long time instead of on the phone like I usually am. But hey, Jerry and I and Bowyer Research and AFA were working on a couple proposals as we head into shareholder season. The first one that I've mentioned before is with Apple, and we had a good victory with Apple on protecting children and minors on their devices within the last 24 months. But right now, we're focused on having a discussion with Apple through the shareholder engagement process about their donations to the Southern Poverty Law Center. Previously, within the last five to seven years, Apple had given over a million dollars to the Southern Poverty Law Center. And so, we're looking to have a discussion with Apple to ensure that they're not giving to that group anymore for a variety of reasons, the primary reason is that they demonize and defame Christian organizations, which is a very unfair tactic and isn't worthy of Apple dollars.
Secondly, we're going to be putting forth a proposal with Bank of New York Mellon on their charitable giving policies. So, what's going on here and what has happened with other companies is they have charitable gift matching where they'll say, for example, "If an employee gives $100 to a charity, then we'll give 50 or whatever, fill in the blank on the percentage." But then some of these companies have put exclusions in these charitable giving match policies to where they say, "Well, if they're a Christian organization, they're not getting our match." Or, "If they're a conservative political group, they're not getting our match." Well, that's problematic because now you're excluding Christians and conservatives from the charitable matching program. So, that's what we're looking at with Bank of New York Mellon and also Apple as well when it comes to the SPLC partnership.
Rob West: Incredible. You know, Jerry, it strikes me that, as shareholders of these companies, we have different approaches. We can honor our conscience and just avoid them all together, and that's perfectly appropriate. On the other end of the spectrum, though, is leaning in and affecting change, the kind of change that Walker's talking about, right?
Jerry Bowyer: Yeah, absolutely. And Apple is a great example of that because Apple is a stock that many Christians feel, or maybe they've been told, "You're not allowed to own that," because, you know, they have a Gay Pride Day, or because you can download indecent material on your Apple phone. Now, if somebody believes that, they absolutely should follow their conscience, like it says in Romans 14: "Whatever is not of faith is sin." But AFA owned the stock, and AFA was able to get them to make changes. So, there is a trade-off here, and so when people are thinking about "What can I invest in, what can I not invest in?", just understand that, just like in any other relationship, if you break off from somebody or shun them, you're probably not going to improve the relationship or have much influence. And now, sometimes you have to do that, and I get that, so I'm not saying nobody should. But I am saying that there's an alternative. And what I find is very often when Christians find out that there is an alternative—their first reaction was, "Disney did what? I'm angry, I'm going to sell Disney." Perfectly understandable. But then once they learn, "Oh, wait a minute, you can put a shareholder proposal and speak at the annual meeting, or someone can?", that's really important, and by and large, I see Christians saying, "Well, if I can have a voice, I'd rather have the voice."
Rob West: Yes, exactly right. And Walker, the great news is this is not just perfunctory. I mean, we're seeing real change and movement from these companies, right?
Walker Wildmon: Yeah, we are. And to Jerry's point, the reality is that in this capitalist economy and this free market system, these multi-billion—and some of them heading over a trillion dollars in value—they have tremendous power and leverage over the culture, over politics, over policy. And so, for us to not be at the table conversing with them and convincing them of our worldview would just be negligent. So, that's why we're at the table. That's why we're having this discussion.
Rob West: Yeah, and that just underscores the opportunity. If you love AFA and you want to make a gift of appreciated stock—I'm sure you've got plenty of those this year as we head toward year-end—rather than selling and giving, why don't you give the stock, let AFA decide if there's an engagement opportunity there, let them then meet with that company, affect change, then sell it and use it? Might as well get a double bottom line there. Well, gentlemen, we appreciate your time today. Walker, thanks for being in studio. Sounds great, and we'll see you next week.
Walker Wildmon: All right, thanks, Rob.
Rob West: All right, thanks, Jerry.
Jerry Bowyer: Thanks, buddy.
Rob West: Well, that's going to do it for us. So thankful to have you along with us today on Faith & Finance here on American Family Radio. We covered a lot of ground. We started with God owns it all and understanding that money issues are heart issues. And then we got to talk to some amazing AFR listeners about their financial situations: investing in a small business from a 20-year-old, all the way to how do we prepare for the real reality of a husband with dementia and just wanting to make sure he's properly cared for with regard to the finances if he outlives his wife. And then finishing out today with the amazing work of AFA in corporate engagement. Hey, have a great long weekend. Come back and join us next week. Lord bless you. Bye-bye.
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Money touches our fears, our desires, our relationships, and our sense of security. That’s why Jesus said in Matthew 6:21: “For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.” He knew something we often miss--money issues are heart issues. On this Faith & Finance on AFR, Rob West explores how our financial lives reveal what’s happening inside us—and how God invites us into freedom and trust. Then, it’s on to calls.
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