Jenna Ellis: Rights that our founders recognize come from God, not government

Jenna Ellis in the morning on American Family Radio. I love talking about the things of God because of truth and the biblical worldview. The U.S. constitution obligates our government to preserve and protect. The rights that our founders recognize come from God, our creator, not our government. I believe that scripture in the Bible is very clear that God is the one that raised up each of you, and God has allowed us to be brought here to this specific moment in time. This is Jenna Ellis in the morning Mainland.

Two Supreme Court justices testified yesterday asking for more money for judges' security

Jenna Ellis: Good morning. It is Wednesday, July 15th, and yesterday morning, two of the Supreme Court justices testified before the US Senate asking for more money for federal judges overall for their security. And the. The response to that has been really fascinating, especially from the NewSong Right. And, and I won't necessarily say conservatives, because what I'm seeing online is very much, the. And it focused less on the actual question and the substance of security for the federal bench at all levels, not just the Supreme Court themselves, but rather focused on the gender of both of the justices who were testifying, Amy Coney Barrett and Elena Kagan. So obviously, two female justices, because we know what a woman is, were testifying, and the response basically in some was, well, this shows the weakness, femininity, that they're more concerned about, these threats and their own security for themselves and their families than they are about actually doing their job. This is evidence why perhaps Amy, Coney Barrett has caved on some of these cases. And if they were just men, and if men were on the court and only on the court, then this wouldn't be happening.

Why are men overall in society infantilized, but effeminate

So I want to talk about that in kind of a roundabout way, and I promise we'll get there because we have an entire hour and, and, first, I think in order to answer that whole line of thinking we've been asking for so long, what is a woman? Which is a very valid question, but we have to ask what is a man? And why are men overall in society, not only infantilized, but effeminate? And they're basically categorically, other than, obviously, the Christians who are standing up to this, categorically in culture, we are lacking men who actually stand up and are willing to do this. So when you juxtapose this in this commentary, this idea of the weak feminine, which is fair, frankly, and this idea that women are just by nature and by, bodily integrity, weaker than men, that's not actually a bad thing. That's just biology. We use that term, weak, and people ascribe to it all sorts of negative connotations but then we don't have the display of the true strong masculine in dominant ways in society that we used to. And so then we end up flipping to this kind of bravado, machismo of like the Andrew Tate sort of style.

Steve Dase: Feminism and infantilization of young adult have profound effects

And so at this point I want to welcome in Steve Dase, who, is going to join me for this rant. And I'm really looking forward to, to his thoughts on this. Because overall, Steve, my conjecture is that when we have started not only with the, the rise of feminism, of course, and the feminization of men and trying to tear them down and saying that strong men who do protect their families and they stand up with courage are something to be despised in culture, that had a profound effect. But the other profound effect as well has been the infantilizing overall of the young adult in America. Because if you look at the statistics and the studies, I was just listening to a podcast yesterday that was going through this, there. And so perfect timing. there are fewer young people of both genders that actually want to get their driver's license at 16 and they don't care about autonomy as much. young people are having less illicit sex than they used to. Good. But the, the the prescribed motive to that is not because somehow they discovered celibacy and the biblical worldview. It's because they are less interested in getting married, having babies and actually growing up, you know, doing the thing that they, they used to do. I mean, even men who I've dated into their 40s, are not wanting to take responsibility and not wanting to have a family or wanting to just go out and, you know, live some kind of perpetual college, high school lifestyle. And more and more people, more and more young people, and then not young people, because 40 isn't quite young, are not wanting to take responsibility, but just live off of the boomer era of their parents. And one of the things that Jeremy Boreing actually discussed on his podcast as well, was that the, the Obama era actually had a really profound impact on this by extending health care for kids, to be on their, on their parents health care until 25. What did that do? Well, one of the profound effects was to say, you can stay a kid longer, you don't have to take responsibility, even further. And we have infantilized culture so much that when we are analyzing some of these issues, where are the men?

Steve Deace: Well, there's a lot there. good morning.

Jenna Ellis: Good morning.

Nick Fuentes volunteered to confront Groiper issue at Amfest last year

Steve Deace: M. Let me, you know, let me go back to, Amfest Last year. And, before he died, Charlie and I were actually discussing how specifically to confront the Groiper issue at last year's Amfest. How to go about doing it and who should do it. And, after he. After he was murdered, the decision was made by those now in charge to want to continue, that goal of confronting this. And at that point, I kind of said, I volunteer myself as tribute. I will do it. which is why I was up on that stage, that afternoon. it was one of the most attended on the main stage events of, the entire weekend. I, mean, it was standing room only, wall to wall people. And I warned everybody before I went up there. I said, listen, I'm not Charlie. as much as I loved him, but he was. He was these guys, his older brother. I'm their dad. And I just need everybody to understand if they try to talk to me in a way that is disrespectful and clearly retarded, I am going to do what every dad would do in this situation. I'm going to spank them and provide some discipline. And that's exactly what I did. And if you go back and you watch that forum, if you came to me with something that was a respectful challenge or a respectful point, even one if I thought it was just, you know, had no merit whatsoever, I was respectful. But if you started in on me with a trope with some bromide online, with your own amateur Nick Fuentes act, then I did what probably your daddy never did to you, and for you, frankly, when you were younger, which is why you're now saying stupid stuff like this. And I took the proverbial belt off and I spanked you right there from the stage in front of about 10,000 people. Now, here is. Here's what was fascinating to me when it was over, Jenna. When it was over, I had a group of these young ropers follow me into the bathroom because, like any man over the age of 50, after I spent, you know, 45 minutes on a stage, I've got to pee, okay? They follow me into the bathroom. These guys are all maybe £130 a piece, okay? So I'm not particularly intimidated. And, they follow me, and they're studying me, and I. I do. My thing is, I'm turn around, I'm like, hey. And they finally come up to me like, hey, man, we just wanted to say to you, we'd never seen anything like that before. I said, really? And they said, yeah, you know, we're all Fuentes guys, don't even think we agree with you. we just thought it was so cool, man. You just stood in there, told everybody what you really thought, didn't back down. we just never seen anything like that before. You know, we're used to people were pushed back on. I'm just completely falling apart, you know, I mean, you had some points we had not heard before. You made us think some things through, and, you know, I don't know. You know, we were just sitting here talking about it. When you were done, man, we just wanted to come over and just say hello. Just thought it was really cool. And as I walked away, I remember, you know, the. The Holy Spirit brought to mind the, Netflix documentary on Jordan Peterson when he was first descending. And the thing that stood out to me when I watched that, Jenna, is these young men who would wait for him after he was done talking, and they'd be in tears after he had been up on the stage saying, hey, clean your room. Get a job. There's more expected out of you than this. Okay? Ah. And I remember thinking, as I watched that documentary several years ago, oh, he's actually stepping in the role of playing the dad that most of these young men have never had. And that's what I learned that day at Amfest, is how many, as you mentioned, the kind of Bronze Age pervert stuff, with Andrew Tate that is taking hold. And I think a lot of that stuff is beginning to dissipate. But there was a moment even a year or two ago where it looked like it might be ascendant. and I think it's because. And I think this is much of the attraction to somebody like Nick Fuentes is a lot of this generation of young men. And I don't think, frankly, unless you are or have raised a young man to adulthood, as I have, I don't think you can even know this and understand it anecdotally, or statistically. I think it is something you kind of have to feel that, there is a unique challenge with the young men of this era. We took a generation off of adulting, masculine adulting. We took a generation off. A lot of men are not finishing well. A lot of men are not finishing with the wife of their youth. A lot of men, don't have a succession plan in their ministries or in their businesses and just are going to keep going and keep going and keep going and keep going, because apparently they're just so vitally important that, you know, we couldn't possibly, you know, groom another generation for the day that father time reminds you he's undefeated. a lot of this current generation of older men are the least likely to leave an inheritance, to their children in American history. And it has nothing to do with economics, it's just they don't want to, you know, they rather give it away, spend it themselves. the thing, you know, the grandparent who will post their ninth, you know, trip vacation this year while their daughter and their son in law are at home needing help with the two or three grandkids, that they're not there for them because they're living their best life now. We just skipped a generation of men finishing well, and modeling, masculine adulting. And so we have a generation of young men who really don't know what this looks like. And so they're searching and you've got these devices called your phone. And it will just give you an instant feedback loop, to either effeminate you or to paganize you. Because that's really, what you were describing is kind of the pagan model of male behavior. and there hasn't been a conduit. I mean, let's look at some Data points. In 1950, half, of those age 30 were married and living in a home that they owned half of America. Today that number is 12%. 12. I mean there's about a half dozen data points you could look at that say, death of the culture. That's on the list right there. It is more likely today that a 41 year old woman will be married and pregnant than a 19 year old woman never happened before in American history. It is more likely today that a 30 year old man will still be living at home with one of his parents than living in another home that he owns with a woman that he's married to and a kid of his own. That's never happened before in American history. These are the data points of skipping a, generation of carrying on our heritage, our legacy.

Charlie Kirk: Young men are getting a raw deal on many fronts

there's a reason why, you know, Clarkston, Georgia, I was reading this morning, has little Somalia. Now why does Clarkson, Georgia need a little Somalia? Why does the state of Georgia need it? Why does the United States need it? What would possibly bless the people of Clarkson, the state of Georgia or the United States with a little Somalia, like ever? Well, these kinds of nothing is the answer. But these kinds of things happen when you don't care at all about your own heritage. You're not, you're not really interested in passing it on. It's really all about you. And so, you know, it's usually a sign of biblical judgment. All throughout the Bible, God's covenant, people are overrun with foreigners every single time they give up on their own heritage, their own legacy, their own way of life. And I think you're watching that, you know, a version of that, you know, in the civic realm play out here in our country right now. And so there's rightfully a lot of frustration with the young men of this era finding a young girl that they're attracted to who hasn't had three abortions or doesn't desire to one day. Not easy. Not easy. I mean, my, my son went to the best Christian school in Iowa. Never regretted a single check I wrote to the place. He got a great education there. I love the people there. But I can't tell you, Jenna, how many times him and I had conversations about how many of the cute girls in his class were pro abortion at the Christian school. M. Okay, so there's a, there's a lot of rightful laments that the young men have. They're being told that if you want a break from your college loans, you, are a, ah, complete soft headed socialist, but make sure you keep paying for grandma's Medicare and Social Security, and do your civic duty to the future or to the past at the same time. They're getting a raw deal on many fronts, which is exactly why they're ripe for the kinds of forces that you were lamenting in your lead up question there. They're ripe for that. And one of the reasons why that frankly hasn't happened to my own son is I'm his dad. There's not a lot, frankly, dads, that are in, that are still around, still in the homes, still involved. And so if you don't have that, if you don't, if you don't see. Okay, all right, yeah, I'm getting a crappy sucky deal. But, you know, if I listen to Charlie Kirk and I, and I, and I go and I get married and I go to church and have kids, will it pay off? What will it look like? Oh, wait, look at my mom and my dad. You know, my mom, my dad and my mom are still pinching each other's butts in the kitchen and making us, engrossing us out. they're here to help. I may need help with a down payment for my first home. They're here for me. I may, I may, you know, we may need, you know, my wife and I, or husband and I, we just Need a break with the kids and the babies. They're taking them for a weekend, taking them off our hands, and they're looking forward to it. Right. The stuff that previous generations took for granted, Jenna, is rare in this day and age. And that is making this next generation of young men right for the pickings for the likes of Andrew Tate and Nick Fuentes. Because in many cases, what they're showing or what they're modeling is a suit, the machismo, the pseudo pagan form of what, maleness is. because I don't believe it's masculinity. I don't think there is such a thing as toxic masculinity. To me, all male behavior that is not masculine is what is toxic. And, and I just think there's a lack of modeling, and that is why there is. They're so susceptible to the forces you're describing.

Jenna Ellis: Yeah, 100%. I mean, we are suffering from a, a smothering of motherhood in, in culture in the sense that women have a natural desire to mother. And, and when women aren't getting married and having kids, and even if they're focused on this hyper feminized view of, you know, you need to have a career and climb the corporate ladder, then who do they start mothering? Their, their partner or their spouse, you know, or their husband. And that in turn infantilizes men. And when men grow up, and they don't have that father figure, they only have the mother figure, then they suffer from that lack of masculine influence that is irreplaceable. I mean, women cannot do. This is why the Bible says to take care of the widows and orphans. And the church should do that. Why? Because the church should be full of men who are in leadership, who can step into that role if there isn't a father in the home. And so what you're describing, Steve, 100%, is a lack of, of fatherhood in this country and a lack of desire, and that isn't being passed down to the next generation. And what's so fascinating is that the kids that you were describing at Amfest, they could have looked at you and been like, man, who is he to talk to us? And you kind of get this sort of, you know, brat kind of a response. But what they're responding to is just evidences their craving for that kind of leadership and mentorship and frankly, discipleship into their lives. And that's what men today need to strive to. I mean, instead of just condemning feminism and, you know, looking at what the women should Be doing. And all of that is fair? Completely. Look at what the men should, be doing.

Steve Ellis: A man is defined by three traits: protect, defend, provide

And the question then is, and we've got two minutes, so maybe you can sum it up in this, but how would you define, for men who are listening, what is a man?

Steve Deace: Everything. a man is three traits. Well, first of all, I'd say a man is somebody who does what he thinks is right, even if he doesn't want to, because he loves the people he's doing it for more than he loves himself. That's how I would define it, first of all. And then I think it would there be three instincts to that. Protect, defend, provide. Everything that we do as mental masculinity, I think, is defined by those three traits. Protect, defend, provide. Everything we do, even when we take Sabbaths, we take breaks. Okay? My family doesn't yell at me for taking four hours to watch a Michigan football game on Saturday. Why? Because I gave them the previous 4,000 hours of my week before the game kicked off. And so, like, you know what, dad? You earned it. You protected, you provided, you defended. You get a Sabbath, you get to take a break. So even your leisure pursuits are so that you can escape and recharge and get right back to your primary functions and duty as a man. Protect, defend, and provide. That's. That's really what you do. You do those three things over and over again until you're dead. And if you do those three things over and over again so you're dead, your children will rise up and call you blessed on your. You know, on your. On your last day when they put you in the grave, and so will

Jenna Ellis: your wife, and you'll have finished. Well, and I so appreciate that, Steve. And you know, what a great conversation. And, this is all going back to the definition of family, because all of these statistics show that children, both men and women, who grow up with a mother and a father, turn out well. We'll be right back with more foreign. welcome back to Jenna Ellis in the Morning on American Family Radio.

Amy Coney Barrett and Elena Kagan testify on judiciary security

Jenna Ellis: Welcome back. So, as I mentioned, all of this ties into this response to Supreme Court Justices Elena Kagan and Amy Coney Barrett testifying yesterday before the House and Senate appropriation subcommittees to defend the courts. 228.2 million budget request for the fiscal year of 2027. And so this coming from the AP, the rare appearance primarily focused on requesting increased funding to enhance security amid a sharp rise in threats against the judiciary. This is part of what Amy Coney Barrett had to say. Cut to so I think the message on these deliveries being sent in his name is clear. as Justice Kagan said, federal judges across the country throughout the judiciary, including the Supreme Court, continue to do their jobs without fear or favor, but the threat level is really high. So, as I mentioned, again, off the top, the response from kind of the NewSong Right, and I would say a lot of the Christian nationalists, have focused on feminine weakness and have condemned Amy Coney Barrett and Elena Kagan simply for being women on the bench and concerned about their security. So, for example, this is coming from Orin McIntyre, who's a regular guest on this program, from the Blaze. I agree with a lot of his takes. I disagree with, some of his perspectives. As regular listeners know, we clashed on the topic of Israel and the US Support, and I appreciate having him on for his various perspectives, but he said this. is this that meaning the testimony bad from Barrett admitting weakness and the effectiveness of leftist terror? Yes, but to be honest, this is not on her. Women should not be in this role. They should not hold this position for this exact reason. But she didn't put herself there. The administration did. The conservative movement did. Because for all their talk about, quote, unquote, knowing what a woman is, they don't. They embrace feminism. They embrace the lie of egalitarianism. They make DEI appointments to please popular political narratives. And now the price comes due. The administration should have inflicted absolutely draconian punishments for leftist violence. Grand spectacles of raw authority, mass arrests, comically long sentences, raids in the middle of the night, leaving progressives terrified to sleep. Instead, they did nothing, watched more leftist violence unfold, and doubled down on nothing while fighting a foreign war for a foreign government. They. Barrett is weak and useless, but she should have never been there in the first place. And conservatives have only themselves to blame. So a lot of, really fascinating content there. Let's welcome in Mike, Donnelly, who is an attorney and, a professor and a pontificator and one of my favorite people to rant with, as you know. And Mike, I don't think that, just as a general proposition, I don't think that the NewSong Right would have nearly the same response at all if the exact same message for security was coming from, for example, Brett Kavanaugh, who, of course is a man and who has been targeted with threats, or Justice Alito, who is a man. I don't think their problem so much is with security, but using this or the budget for it, but using this as an overall, kind of red flag and a pretext to go after a deeper issue that they've been pushing for a long time, part of which I agree with, which, as Steve and I just talked about, that, the. The male leadership in this country absolutely needs to rise back again and in a better way than just the quote, unquote, patriarchy. but male leadership is expected biblically in the church and the family, and I believe also should be, primarily in the civil government. And we can talk about that. but they're. They're also. The part that I disagree with is that Barrett is somehow weak and shouldn't be on the court simply because she is a woman. I don't see that anywhere in scripture, a gender distinction in the civil government. We have examples to the contrary, that are lauded in scripture. But it is a difficult needle to thread, when we're talking about, you know, women versus masculine leadership, especially in a culture that right now is effeminizing men and is trying to over masculinize, women. So this is just a perfect layup for their philosophy. And I don't think that this particular issue is the best example that they could use about why male leadership needs to come back to America. Your thoughts?

Mike Donnelly: Yeah, I agree with you, Jenna. This is probably not a good example, not a good place to launch off on that conversation. I mean, just this. Amy Coney Barrett, is. Has been a pretty important member, of the bench. You know, she's. She was, you know, partly responsible for helping overturn Roe v. Wade, which is really important. when you talk about the biblical role of women, I mean, we can go back to the Old Testament and there are judges who are women. Deborah, for example. Right. You know, Justice Amy Coney Barrett is not a Deborah. Right. And I don't want to over, emphasize that point, but, you know, women definitely have a role to play. And, you know, God has given us, as individuals, agency to make choices. And in our culture today, you know, we are. We've moved women into positions of leadership like the Supreme Court in other places. And I think women contribute a lot and should be able to contribute. Each one needs to make their individual choice. You know, Amy Coney Berry has. I think she has seven kids. I have seven kids. you know, she's a mom and a Supreme Court justice. That's a really challenging load to balance. ultimately, she's going to have to answer to God for how she has handled the roles that she's been given. you know, I have a lot of respect for her. I disagree With a lot of her decisions on the court, most recently the Birthright decision, I think she got it completely wrong. Ah, shame on her and Justice Roberts for what they did there. but I feel like you're right. this is not the role or the person that you want to make that argument for.

Jenna Bell: The Supreme Court has become too powerful, too important

And ultimately, for me, Jenna, it comes back to this idea of the Court needing security. It's symptomatic of the problem that I always talk about. The federal government has become too big, too powerful, too important. If the Supreme Court wasn't invalidating the votes of tens of millions of people and the, constitutional amendments of 30 plus states, I'm referring to, Obergefell decision, where the court invalid, so called, invalidated the marriage laws of 30 plus states that had defined marriage as a man and a woman, then people probably wouldn't be so motivated. And that's true on the left as well. I think both the left and the right have a lot in common when it comes to decrying and condemning the power of the Court. It has become too powerful, and therefore it attracts this level of attention. So strategically, what I would recommend the Supreme Court do is try to become less consequential. If you're afraid of people wanting to come after you, because you're doing such a consequential things, then don't do them. And the Constitution never intended the Supreme Court to be this consequential. Ultimately, that's where it comes back to, in my opinion.

Jenna Ellis: Yeah. So well said. And it's fascinating to me that the, the NewSong Right isn't taking this opportunity to talk about exactly that and talk about the overreach of the federal government, the actual Supreme Court opinions that overreach that we disagree with, the hallmark, most recently, of course, the birthright citizenship opinion, and talking about, of course, political violence and how that's inappropriate in any context, whether it's Amy Coney Barrett, Elena Kagan, or Charlie Kirk or anyone else, and talking about, political violence in the context of why do we need to spend, this kind of money on security in a culture that that shouldn't be a threat anyway? I mean, we have, the avenues constitutionally to rein in the federal government, and if we don't like their opinions, then we need to do something about it constitutionally. But instead of focusing on those points, which are actually the points that need to be made, and you said that so well, instead the NewSong Right is focusing primarily on this ideology that is trying to drive out women from civil service, they're the same people that want to, overturn and repeal the 19th amendment, take the vote away, from women. And I think that there's kind of a darker and more nefarious motive here. Not specifically, I'm not talking specifically about Warren McIntyre, you know, individually, obviously I use him as an example. But the movement of the Christian nationalists and this NewSong Right, this ideology is seeking to ultimately overturn the U.S. constitution and institute this kind of, religious theocracy in a way that is tyrannical and is a way that is frankly, unbiblical. And so it's, it's. I think we need to open our eyes here, to all of the listeners to say, you know, this kind of immediate coordinated response that is taking this, this whole testimony, completely out of context and advancing it for their own ideological purposes needs to be addressed. And I'm concerned about where that is going for the future of the, the rights base because we have a lot of young people, frankly, that are in that category.

Mike Donnelly: Yeah, I was listening a little bit to what Steve Dase was saying, earlier in the program, and m. I'm not. I'm Just be honest, I don't really pay attention to those guys. The NewSong Right and Christian nationalists. I feel like that's a pretty small, group and I'm not aware of the traction they're getting. I mean, I heard Steve and you talking about that. That's attractive to a lot of the aimless young men who are looking for direction. And that may be true. I believe it. But we've got big problems to solve in this country and we need men and women to work together. That's the reality of the culture today that we're in. And look, we're not going to repeal the 19th amendment. women are not going to stop working and go home and raise kids. They have to make those decisions. Fathers and mothers together have to make those decisions. And it's hard to raise children and, you know, buy a home today without two incomes. It's really hard. The economics are very challenging. So there's a lot of factors that are contributing to the challenges that families are facing today. And we all have to make choices, about how we run our families and, where we spend our time. And I'm blessed. I have a wife who, she could work, but she stays at home. And I'm blessed to have a job that allows me to support our family, so that they can stay home and she can homeschool our kids. And our kids aren't sent off to the public schools, I call them temples of humanism to become indoctrinated and infantilized and the things that you and Steve were talking about, and I appreciate that. you know, it's hard. People have to make hard choices and you have to ask yourself what's really important to me and what is God calling me to do as a father, as a, as a mother? I think that, you know, moms need to be home raising their kids. But that's not true in every single case. But I think generally that should be the case. That's how God designed the family to operate. And not everybody's going to be able to do that, but I think generally we should strive for that and that will help the country kind of get back on course. I think if you start with the family and the family can be supported and reconstituted really, then from there good things will happen in the church, good things will happen in civil government because you'll have things operating the way God intended them to do. Is that going to happen? I hope so.

Jenna Ellis: But that's such a great perspective and a biblical one that what, that and what you mentioned, previously, Mike Donnelly, that you know, context matters and and our own free agency and the ability, especially in this country to make determinations about the wisdom and God's will and purpose for our lives, absolutely is key here because Amy, ah, Coney Barrett, for example, as a wife and mom, will have to answer for those roles as well as her civil service on the Supreme Court to God, ultimately. And while we can from the outside, you know, potentially look in and, and raise some of those questions like is this really the best person that we could be putting on the bench? Ultimately that's her decision within the context of her family. But it does raise the important question of the priorities. And that's true for for women especially, but even also for men. I mean there are so many men that make decisions for their families that have an impact on their families, just because it's better for them at their jobs. But when you get married and you have a family, your priorities change. Your family is your first priority and your first ministry, of course, after your own relationship to the Lord. But that is a trust and an inheritance from the Lord. And no longer should you be looking at just you know, climbing the corporate ladder or doing everything just at your job. Obviously you want to be a good worker, steward, all of that, of course, but you need to be looking holistically at the priorities and the responsibilities that God has given you. In the context of family, I mean, this is why the Apostle Paul said it's easier and is termed better, you know, to be single because then you can be in full time ministry. I mean, when I went and worked for Trump, that was a 247 job. And I was single at the time. Still I'm single. But, I was single at the time. If I had been married and had young kids at home, that would have been an absolutely irresponsible job for me to take at the time because there is no way that I could have done both of those things well. And so when we're looking at the context, especially women who, when they have kids, that absolutely should be their priority, then, and, and discipling them and raising them and mothering them, that is a context that I think that, that's the part that I agree with on this whole conversation of saying, you know, it's not that women are more concerned about security than men, we should all be concerned about political violence. It's the fact that are we asking women in this culture? And I think the answer to that abundantly is yes, we're asking women and men to prioritize something else and have some different measure of success than what God has intended, which is the family first. So we have to take a break here. But that's a great segue actually into our next topic about, homeschooling and a really just absolutely wild, discussion on a different very feminist podcast. And Mike Donnelly is going to stick with us through the break to talk about that. And, we will be right back with more.

Jenna Ellis discusses feminism and homeschooling on American Family Radio

welcome back to Jenna Ellis in the Morning on American Family Radio.

Jenna Ellis: Welcome back. So we've been talking about, what is a man? And the need for masculine, figures and leadership. And so, this wouldn't be a complete show if we didn't also talk a little bit about the problems with, feminism and the fact that so many women are being told, not only not to have kids, that they're a distraction from, you know, your overall career trajectory, but even, if you do have kids, it, you shouldn't want to actually mother them and be around them. And this is a clip from this podcast apparently called I've had it, which is very progressive leftist. So we've had to bleep a lot in this clip because, you know, that's also, in the rise of feminism is the vulgarity of women, which I just find so offensive. But Basically, it's this assertion that homeschooling is a bad idea. And this. This liberal feminist says that she thinks it's weird that you would want to be around your kids all day, every day, day and night. Listen to this.

Mike Donnelly: You would not believe how many people in Bible study homeschool their kids. And you just think, I worry about that. And then you see those witness booklets or whatever they're called that the Duggars use, and they're like, top out at eighth grade. I mean, I just think homeschooling is a bad idea. From soup to nuts. I don't care if you're a nuclear physicist. I think it's just weird as that you want your kids around you all day, every day and all night. And just the socialization, for me personally, it was that I would have gotten up on my hands and knees and strapped them to my back and crawled to get them to school every day just to get them where I wasn't. So I don't trust somebody that wants to be with their kids 24, 7. I think a lot of dumb people do it because it's just easier, and that's a concern.

Jenna Ellis: And I've had.

Mike Donnelly: I've had divorce cases that, like, mom's mad at dad, they're fighting over whose school district kids can use their address. They put them on homeschool. It's like two or three hours a day at the computer, and then kids are going just off to the races. So I just can't think of very many good things about homeschooling.

Jenna Ellis: Well, I can, and Mike Donnelly can as well. Because I loved being, with my parents in homeschooling because they're actually the ones that discipled me. And I understood and was able to launch as an adult. And so were my two brothers, who are very masculine men and are biblical men because of my mom and my dad and their choice to homeschool. So, Mike, I know you have a lot to say on this, but I think it's just ridiculous that this, this woman is suggesting that she thinks it's weird that parents would want to be around their kids.

Mike Donnelly: Wow. I don't even. It's incredible. I've watched this clip a few times, and I just keep. My mouth just drops when I listen to this person. I feel sorry for this woman. Her name is Angie Sullivan. she was a lawyer. She's had some bad things happen to her. I think she's bitter, and I think she's probably deep in her heart jealous of people who are homeschooling who want to have their children around them, who love their children that much and whose children love them. she's got some problems, and we all need to pray for Angie and her co host, Jennifer Welch, who's an atheist. there's a lot of lost people who have real hurts in their lives, and that comes out through their mouths when saying stupid things like this. you know, you would crawl on your hands and knees to get your children away from you. Why have children then? You know, the Bible says children are a blessing from the Lord. You know, Psalm 127, and they are. Is it hard to be a parent? Oh, yeah, it sure is. And it drives you to your knees not to crawl, to get your kids away from you, but in prayer, to ask God to help you to carry the load. It can be challenging. And, you know, God can be there with you. If there are people who are listening to us right now, Jenna, I know. Who are struggling with family situations. Life is hard. we live in a fallen world. And, yeah, you know what happens when you put a bunch of sinners together 24 hours a day? There's a lot of sin happening. And what does that give you? Well, it gives you lots of opportunities to practice forgiveness and to work on your own character. which is what I found over the years, and I've experienced that with lots of other homeschooling families when I was ministering to the homeschooling movement, when I worked at the Homeschool Legal Defense Association. And, you know, Jenna, you know Steve, you asked Steve, what is a man when you were talking to him? And I thought Steve had something pretty good. He said, protect, defend, and provide. I thought those were really good. I had the opportunity to speak to homeschooling fathers a lot, and I said, here's what we need to do as dads. We need to lead, we need to protect, and we need to provide. I mean, it's kind of similar. And, you know, dads, if you're out there listening and, you know, you have an obligation to lead your family, and it's not easy. It's true. there's a lot of cultural things that can drive you off of that. the culture does not really tell moms and women that they should let their husbands lead. So you may have to grapple with that a little bit. as a couple, you've got to kind of work through that. What does Ephesians say? That's where you really need to go. Ephesians, chapter five. Ephesians chapter six. You know, Ephesians six says, parents, you know, bringing your. Raise your children in the admonition and nurture of the Lord. That's the biblical command from Ephesians chapter six on what we are to do as parents. children are to obey their parents. Fathers, don't, you know, exasperate your kids. Yeah, these are the things we have to watch out for. But we've got to provide for our children. Dads, we've got to provide spiritual nourishment to them as much as physical nourishment. We've got to protect them from the evil in the world and point them to Christ. We've got to lead them with vision and help communicate a vision of. What does it look like to be a, biblical man or a biblical woman and encourage them? these are hard things to do. but that's. I think that would be what I would say a man does. and a man also, when it comes to marriage. Jenna. Ephesians 5:25 says, Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church. Guys, how did Jesus love the church?

Christian parents have an obligation to give their children a Christian education

He died for the church. He gave up everything that he had a right to, and he died to himself, died to everything that he had a right to. to serve the church by giving us the opportunity to come to him in faith and have a relationship with God. Right. And for the church to exist. And that's what we need to do for our wives. That's what Paul talks about there in Ephesians chapter six. So there's a lot there, Jenna. But, I feel sorry for Angie Sullivan, and she couldn't be more wrong. Homeschooling is not easy, but it sure is worth it. And again, I just want to say to people who aren't homeschooling, you know, we as Christian parents have an obligation to give our children a Christian education. Whether you do that, you know, by sending your kids to public school, private school, or your homeschool, I think homeschooling is easier to do it that way. but there are lots of kids who go to public school that I know who are great Christians, and they're there shining the light in that dark place. And I'm glad for that, and I pray for them to. You know, each family has to make that decision on their own, and God holds parents accountable for those decisions. And I respect the decisions that any parent makes. But we are not able to get out of that, responsibility to give our kids a Christian education, no matter how or where, they're educated.

Mike: Understanding roles and responsibilities before God comes down to personal responsibility

Jenna Ellis: Yeah, absolutely. And so much, that you just said, and so spot on. And really this all, I think, comes down to understanding that the roles and responsibilities that God has given each of us uniquely, whether we are married with kids or not, and our responsibilities before the Lord, come down to understanding that our relationship with him, our primary purpose is to worship and love him and come into a saving knowledge of Him. And because of that understanding that this world is not for ourselves, it is not for, our own advancement, our own pleasure, our own anything, and it is about understanding how we, in our specific roles that God has given us and those roles can change throughout our lifetimes. Of course, those roles need to be in the same servant mindset that Jesus himself displayed and that we're called to in Scripture. And if our purpose is wondering, you know, what can we get out of this relationship? Or how. How much can I, you know, you know, send off my kids so I don't have to deal with it, or, you know, how much can I, Can I say that this is just a problem with, With the feminization of men or the The over, The over feminization of the culture. Instead of taking personal responsibility and accountability and saying, what am I called before Christ to do and doing that well, that's what my parents. I mean they're. Their legacy is and always will be that they did their roles to each other and to their children and now to their grandchildren well before the Lord. And that's all that we can do. But that is what we should be doing, as individuals and you know, right now being single, obviously not having the spouse and the kids. My main ministry is before the Lord. And that's, Just like Paul. I mean, that's a very good thing. And I need to do that well. And. And if that changes, later on in my lifetime, then, you know, great. And that. Then my family needs to be the first and primary responsibility. So the ultimate point here, I think, Mike, is that whatever we are called to right now, we need to do that well and not seek the, accolades from the culture or seek the understanding of. Of our role in light of what the culture is telling us, but instead, in light of what the Scripture is telling us. And that comes with decisions on educating children as well. Because education is so much more than just, you know, math and reading. It's all about discipleship. And that's what homeschooling provides, I think, in the best possible way.

Mike Donnelly: It's worth it. And serving the Lord is what is worth it

So closing thoughts in the minute or so we have left.

Mike Donnelly: Yeah, I agree with you, Jenna. And, I just want to say I'm really grateful to my wife for her willingness to do that. It's. It's. It's a tough. It's a tough road, but it's worth it. And there's a lot of joy in it as well. I mean, you know, this poor woman, Angie, not wanting to be around her kids. I mean, you know, I love my kids. My kids are awesome. My wife loves them and the relationships that they have with each other and that she is able to have with them that now go on where we have grandkids, and we are around our grandkids, and they come over regularly, and she loves that. You know, it's an intergenerational, multi generational vision that I think is really important. So homeschool moms out there, if you're listening, it's hard, I know, but just keep doing it. Just keep doing what you're doing, dad. Support your moms. And here's my advice to homeschool dads, guys. Just write the check. Don't complain. Just if your mom. If the homeschool mom needs something, you get it because you're investing in your kids and your grandkids. It's worth it.

Jenna Ellis: Yes, absolutely. It's worth it. And serving the Lord is what is worth it. And we need to be doing that on a daily basis, wherever we are called. And I'm so thankful for all of the homeschooling parents out there, including my own, who gave me, the best possible discipleship and understanding of the Lord, before I had to launch into adulthood and learn all of those lessons later in life. So, thanks to your wife Patti, for doing the same thing, for your kids and Mike Donnelly. Always appreciate it. And as always, you can reach me and my team, JennaAFR.net.

Mike Donnelly: It.

Jenna was joined by Steven Dease and they explored the implications of a culture that appears to infantilize young men and later Jenna talked to Mike Donnelly on SCOTUS and Homeschooling