Pastor Jeff Schreve: Well, good Monday morning, and welcome to Real Truth for today. Pastor Jeff Schrieve here wanted to read to you from Psalm 145, a Psalm of David. He says this. I will extol you, my God, O King, and I will bless your name forever and ever. Every day. I, will bless you, and I will praise your name forever and ever. Great is the Lord, and highly to be praised, and his greatness is unsearchable. One generation shall praise your works to another and shall declare your mighty glory. Acts.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: I think about that, Psalm 145. 4. One generation shall praise your works to another. You know, it's the job of the older generation to pass the baton of faith to the younger generation. And if we don't do that, Christianity is just one generation from being extinct. We know God always has a remnant, but it's our job to pass our faith, to our children, our grandchildren, and keep it going. Well, we want to talk about that today and how we can do that and how we can be bold in our faith, courageous in our faith. How we can have churches that are bold and courageous, that are engaging as salt and light in the culture. And to help me do that is my friend Dr. Bob Pearle. Bob is the pastor of Birchman Baptist Church in Fort Worth, Texas. Been there since 1998.
Dr. Bob Pearle: Yes, sir. Almost 30 years.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yes. That's, pretty amazing in today's world, Bob, you know, we don't have a lot of guys that have that, that kind of long tenure.
Dr. Bob Pearle: Yes.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: guys tend to bail out or bounce around. so in your, ministry, how many positions did you have before you came to Birchman?
Dr. Bob Pearle: Birchman is my fourth pastorate, and Birchman is actually an unusual church because I followed a man who was there for 29 years.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Oh, wow.
Dr. Bob Pearle: So for almost 60 years, they've had two pastors.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: as we know. We learned that from First Baptist, Dallas, George W. Tritt, who was there for how long? 40 something years?
Dr. Bob Pearle: almost.
Tim Todd: Yeah.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: And then wa. That was. Criswell was there for 50 years. And then after that, they started to.
Dr. Bob Pearle: Yeah, you had several pastors between Dr. Criswell and Robert Jeffers.
Tim Todd: Yeah, yeah.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: it is hard to follow a guy that's greatly beloved. And I was talking to a friend of mine the other day who loves Alabama football, and it's like, how do you follow Nick Saban? I mean, whoever you are, you're not Nick Saban. I mean, I don't think you're going to be better in terms of his football prowess, you know, and so you can only go down, and, you
Dr. Bob Pearle: know, I am blessed to be able to survive that. I did not know if I was going to survive following, the previous pastor there. my first several years were very, very difficult. But general, the second guy, following somebody of that team. In fact, Adrian Rogers used to talk about the third dog. His illustration was for. You had R.G. lee, right. And he was there for 33 years. And then you had Ramsey Pollard, who came and was the president of the Tennessee Baptists. He only made it 10 years, and Pollard lived in the shadow of Lee. They wanted to know, are you going to wear a white suit like he does? Are you going to kneel like he does? And so forth. And so then after. After Pollard, then you had Adrian Rogers.
Caroline: Right.
Dr. Bob Pearle: And the way Adrian always explained it to us young seminary, students, he said, you know, it's like a dog. You get a dog and you just love that dog and the dog dies. So then you want to get a dog just like that dog that died, right. And you get it and you realize that's not the same dog. And then when that. When you don't have that dog anymore now you get a dog you want. And that's the way, Adrian says that, why he was so successful there.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Okay, so, Bob, for you, when you came following a guy that had been there for that long, 29 years.
Dr. Bob Pearle: 29.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: did he stay in the church?
Dr. Bob Pearle: Yes.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Okay. Which is kind of, in the world of pastors, we kind of know you don't stay in the church. You leave to help the other guy out. There's nothing written in stone on that, but that's just kind of a common courtesy. did you ever have discussions with him about maybe you should leave?
Dr. Bob Pearle: Very much so. It was very difficult. And, And so I don't want to get into it, because even his family is still in the church. And they, they do great. But with him, there was some issues that we had and we had talked about it, and he, just decided, okay, I'll just be quiet. Because at first he actually fought against me.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Oh, wow. Okay.
Dr. Bob Pearle: So, it's just one of those things. But, you know, God was great, grateful, gracious. And I was blessed because I just kept my, my, nose to the grind and continue to do what I believe God wanted me to do. And here I am.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Well, you were a young guy.
Dr. Bob Pearle: 43.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yeah. Relatively speaking. you know, I talked, yesterday about, I'm doing a series on numbers, Bob. And so we were in numbers 11, how the people groan and complain. And Moses said, God, why did you give me this assignment? If this is the way you're going to treat me, just kill me. And so I just said, how, you know, you don't want to be part of the rabble that stirs people up, that gets people, you know, focused on the wrong thing to where the pastor wants to die. and I tell the church, I said, I've never had that prayer, God kill me. But I have thought about God killed this person or that person, and obviously, tongue in cheek, yeah, sure. But, you know, it is. People don't realize that can be very, very difficult. One of the things that Debbie and I, experienced, because God called me in the ministry when I was in the secular workforce and I'd been doing that for ten plus years. when you're working outside the church, church is your oasis. Church is where you go to recharge. When you're a pastor. Your work and your church are all the same place. And so if things go haywire in your work, it's in your church. Your oasis becomes a difficult spot. that can be really hard for your family.
Dr. Bob Pearle: Oh, it was very hard. And I, thank God that I have a very faithful, loving, praying wife. And, she spent many, many hours in prayer. She knew what I was going through. our son at the time, who was in high school, we did our best to protect him from all of the. Yay. Yeah. That was going on in the church because we did not want him to wind up like a lot of pastor kids, that when they get up on their own, they know what's going on. And so they don't want to have anything to do with the Lord or the church. so we're grateful that God protected our son in that regard because he loved the church. He came. he was very faithful and then he actually became a pastor as well. Wanted to be a pastor, which surprised us.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Well, okay, Bob, when we think about that, we want our churches to be healthy. We want it to be a genuine place. just like a healthy family. Every family is going to have issues. No family has an idyllic existence. You know, we grew up with shows like Father Knows Best or Leave it to Beaver. And that family was always so idyllic in the way they sat down. And Ward always wore his tie to dinner. You know, June always had pearls and a dress on when she vacuumed. Well, that's just not real life. But we were kind of connected. Well, that's what it's supposed to be like. But, I think one of the things that can hurt people is when you get to see guys become deacons, and all of a sudden they see that some people are upset about this, that or the other. And there's like, I thought everybody just loved each other here. And people are people. You deal with people. And not all people are walking with the Lord.
Dr. Bob Pearle: That's correct. And that's one of the great, shocks of new staff members come on. Or even in, some of the, assistants that you have working at the church that have come from the outside world, and they come and they've got this kind of utopian vision that everybody in the church is nice and sweet and loves everybody and they see the other side of that. And so you have to guide them to say, look, everybody has bad days, and not everybody walks with the Lord and not everybody is at the same place in the Lord. you've got to understand that this is where you have to learn to forgive. You've got to pray for them, you've got to overlook it, and you've got to go on. Don't let what somebody else is doing that is not biblical and not following the Lord. Don't let that hinder your walk with God.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Well, you think about Acts, chapter 15, Paul and Barnabas going on the second missionary journey. They got in such a big argument that they couldn't keep going together.
Dr. Bob Pearle: That's right. And they had to split up.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: And so that is. I mean, I think Paul is arguably the greatest Christian who ever lived. for sure the most knowledgeable Christian who ever lived. but if he had a run in and Barnabas, the son of encouragement, it's like, if any two guys ought to get along, it's those two guys. And yet they hit an impasse.
Dr. Bob Pearle: They did. And sadly, today, that's how too many churches Begin because people in churches, don't get along. And so one splits from another. And many of the churches are started like that through fights. But the good news about that is Barnabas came back along and later in Paul's ministry, he was there supporting him and helping him.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yeah, I heard. I, think it was MacArthur that said, okay, Barnabas should have acquiesced to Paul because Paul was the leader. But he thought that Paul was probably not right in not wanting to take Jon, Mark not wanting to give him another chance. And it all had to do with he bailed out. I don't want guys that bail out. And that was basically Paul's attitude. Fool me once, shame on me on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. but it is interesting how in ministry, and God works that together for good. Now you had two teams going out as opposed to just one. But it can be difficult. And people, people, that are more, maybe more naive in the faith just think everything should be idyllic and it's not.
Dr. Bob Pearle: It's not. And because people are people, we all are sinful. We all have that sin nature. And we're different. And so what may, trigger something in one person won't trigger it in another person. And so that's where we all need to learn to forgive. And like in the Bible, the one another's in the Bible, we need to pray for one another, encourage one another. And so that's where we just need to learn to grow in our faith and realize that not everybody's going to do things the way we do it.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Okay, Bob, you, you went to Southwestern Seminary?
Dr. Bob Pearle: No, I went to Mid America Baptist Seminary.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Oh, you did? Okay. That was in the early days.
Dr. Bob Pearle: Yes. I started in 1977. It was the first full school year in Memphis. They had, moved to Memphis in 76, but they were not in the Jewish synagogue at that time because it was being renovated. So they had a half a year. So they had the spring of 77, only a half a year in the Jewish synagogue. And then in the fall of 77 is when I started. And so that was the full completion, complete year in, in, the synagogue.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: How many students back then?
Dr. Bob Pearle: Oh, I don't remember. 350, 400.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: That's pretty, that's a lot for a startup.
Dr. Bob Pearle: Yeah, it was five years old at that time. But you know, this is another heartbreak today too, because every seminary, every one is the enrollment in the M. Div. Students is declining.
Dr. Bob Pearle: All across the board, everywhere.
Caroline: Right.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: And that is the degree for a pastor exactly? A Master of Divinity. Okay, so when you were in Memphis, you went to Adrian's church?
Dr. Bob Pearle: No, actually, I was on staff at First Baptist Church of Hughes, Arkansas, 40 miles west of Memphis. So I commuted 40 miles every day for my, my, master's degree. However, Adrian, Dr. Rogers spoke in chapel and spoke in class and so forth, and we had a lot of interaction with him during that time.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: He's, interesting. So tomorrow, Steve Rogers is coming on the program.
Dr. Bob Pearle: Oh, great.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: For some weird reason, I've had a couple of dreams about Adrian and being in meetings with, you know, revival meetings or something with him. And it's just kind of out of the blue. And so I said, that's, that's kind of weird. I mean, Adrian's been gone for 20 years. And I said, I'm going to call Steve. And, you know, Steve sounds just like Adrian. He's got that voice, just like Adrian. So we're going to talk about Adrian tomorrow. But you're listening to Real Truth for today, and my guest is Dr. Bob Pearle in the studio. Bob has been the pastor of Birchman Baptist Church since 1998. He's also the pastor or the author of the Courageous Church Standing Boldly, for Truth in a Cowardly World. You're listening to Real Truth for today on American Family Radio. We'll be right back.
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Pastor Jeff Schreve: Welcome back to the program. Pastor Jeff here talking to my friend Dr. Bob Pearle, the pastor of Birchman Baptist Church in, Fort Worth, Texas. Now, you're very close to the seminary, aren't you? In proximity?
Dr. Bob Pearle: Yeah, we're about 15 minutes from Southwestern.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Okay. So we had Dean Sieberhagen here, and Dean, had talked, I think. Had he been to your church? No, he hasn't. Okay. He was talking about Birchman, when he was here. But Dean and I have been good friends for a long time. He came and did a whole, We had a whole Sunday on Islam. I know. You just had a weekend on Islam with, our friend William J. Federer.
Dr. Bob Pearle: That's correct.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: And, Federer is. He's got to be one of the most knowledgeable guys I've ever met.
Dr. Bob Pearle: Yeah. He is a walking encyclopedia of Islam, of American history, world history, many things.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: It's amazing. You can ask him. I see him at the, National Religious Broadcasters Convention, and I'll just throw out a date. I said, okay, Bill here is, 450 BC tell me what was going on, and he can do it. He can tell you who the players are. It's amazing. So, good, good friend. We're, doing a trip to Washington, D.C. with Dr. Gary Frazier, and I'm leading about 20 of our church members there. And Bill is going to be there to take, us through the Capitol building and explain all the history of everything. So looking forward to that. Okay, so Psalm 145, 4. One generation shall praise your works to another and shall declare your mighty acts. Bob, from your perspective as a pastor for many, many years, how are we doing, you think, as a church in general, passing the baton to the next generation, struggling.
Dr. Bob Pearle: and this is one thing, too, that the younger generation is different from our generation. it seems to me that. Well, when I first came to Bertram, let's put it that way, many generations attended church together. And you'd have the grandparents and the parents and the grandchildren, and they all came together, they all worshiped together, then they would go to lunch or whatever. I have noticed, though, in the past decade, or two, that what's happened is a lot of the younger generation, they want to go out on their own. They don't want to worship with their parents. Now, there's probably many reasons for that, one of which, their styles. they don't like the style of the way the parents worship and so forth. Even though there's so much similarity there, it's not as radically different as one would think, but they just want to kind of be out on their own and so that's what they're doing. and to me, I think that that is not as productive as it could be. There is something very beneficial, I think, of all of the generations worshiping together to be there. You know, our son died five years ago this Wednesday. And, he was a pastor, but when he was in school, even in college, and. And after he got married, we all worshiped together. It wasn't until he broke out on his own to start in ministry, that we separated. But there was so much fun to be at. And it's just a blessing to be at church worshiping there. Your son is. Your children are, the grandchildren. I mean, there's. I don't know, maybe it's just because I'm getting older and I'm a granddad that I like everybody to be together. But you're seeing more of a fragmentation of our families today for a variety of reasons.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: You know, I think, because I was at Champion Forrest in Houston, and that was, with Demon Shook. And that was my home church. That's where I met my wife. All my kids got saved and baptized at Champion Forrest. So that's been a special, special place for a long time. But, in those bigger cities, it's more transient, and so people move in and they're looking for friends. And Houston was a great place. It's a terrible place as far as climate, yes, but it's a great place as far as people. And in the church, we didn't have a lot of generations. And I still remember one of the guys on the staff, Bill Upchurch, he was at Greene Acres and Tyler, before he came to Champion Forrest. And he said I wasn't, as familiar with all the generations being in the church because smaller towns tend to have that. We have that a lot at First Baptist Texarkana. And I remember Larry Sims, our associate pastor for 44 years. he told me, he said, now, Jeff, just remember this. When you're talking to somebody, just remember they're related to somebody, other people in the church. So don't ever say anything negative about, you know, anybody, because you don't know who's related. Somebody's there. Everybody's related to somebody in this area. And so that took a little getting used to, because I didn't have that experience at Champion Forrest.
: Yeah.
Dr. Bob Pearle: And I had that, at Birchman, too, when I first came. It's still there today, but not quite, to the degree it was when I first came.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: But the fracturing of, okay, this group meets this is our contemporary service. We meet over there. They don't really have much to do with the classic service or whatever name that people give it. We just have one service. and so everybody's together.
Dr. Bob Pearle: That's what we do, too. We have one service and everybody's together. The music varies. One Sunday it's going to be, more traditional. One Sunday, it might be more contemporary. but see, that's the way a family works. In a family, it's always give and take. When you go out to eat, somebody may want a hamburger, somebody may want Italian. So you compromise, okay? Today we're going to have a hamburger. Next week, or next time we'll go eat Italian. That's the way a family works. And a church is nothing but a large family.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yeah, that's good. You know what I've noticed too, Bob, and, you're a little more mature than I am. Not a whole lot, but, you've been at this longer than I have from a preaching standpoint, because culture is so fractured, and, we grew up watching the same shows. everybody knew about Gilligan's island and Hogan's Heroes and All in the Family. And these, these shows, you could pull illustrations from culture, and everybody seemed to know. Even commercials. Where's the Beef? Everybody knew that. Not everybody. I mean, everything. Now, it's difficult to get an illustration from culture that everybody knows what you're talking about.
Dr. Bob Pearle: That's true, because not, everybody's watching the same thing. But this is part of what we're seeing in the decline of culture as well. For the shows that you mentioned, Father's Nose, best leave it to Beaver. That right. Beavers was my favorite. But all of those, you had what people refer to today as the nuclear family. I prefer the term natural family. That's in God's order. That's the way it generally was. However, today and the comedy shows today, if you'll notice, the father is always the goofus. The mother is always the one that knows how to fix everything. And that's just turning everything on its head today. and sadly, that shows how men today, though, have abrogated their responsibility as a whole. Whole. And are not leading in their families. And when there's a vacuum, somebody's going to do it. And all too often, it's the women.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Bob, from a standpoint of preaching and our churches making a difference, being salt and light, it seems like the culture has made more difference in the church than the church has made in the culture. Charlie, Kirk pointed that out. And I think masterfully. And we have Tim Wildmon coming to First Baptist Texarka this Wednesday night. He's going to talk about being salt and light and making a difference in the culture. I don't know if we just naturally knew that we were supposed to do that back 30, 40 years ago, but today it seems like people don't realize. Take voting for instance. Your vote makes a difference. And if the culture influences that and not your Christianity, something's wrong.
Dr. Bob Pearle: Exactly. The problem is, for years and years, referring to your illustration of voting, it has been attacked, the church has been attacked by the secular culture for speaking against, speaking on any, what they consider cultural, issues. And so therefore many pastors are not wanting to do it. And what they've been doing told in this lie, as we all know, it's taken out of context the separation of church and state, of which the Danbury Baptist with Thomas Jefferson. And we know that's not true. But, but get back to it. What has happened now? People, consciously or unconsciously, are dividing their lives into two segments, a secular part and a sacred part. And, and, even though they may not consciously be doing this, they'. Well, their sacred part is. Well, that's when I go to church and that's the sacred thing. And then maybe in my family and so forth. But then other than that, everything else is secular. Well, no, as a Christian, everything is right. the Lord is overall. Lord overall. And so that means that when I go to the grocery store, I don't leave my Christianity at the front door of the grocery store. When I go to work, I don't leave my Christianity at the front door of that. When I go to school, I don't leave it at the front door of the school. In other words, it's where I am in all times. I am to exhibit and live out my Christian faith. And so people today are afraid, it seems to do that.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Well, you know, the, the coming together is kind of like the huddle in football. When we come together, for church, that's to, hey, we take a break from the game, so to speak. And we're going to be encouraged, we're going to be built up. And then you go back out now you're on.
Dr. Bob Pearle: Right.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: And, people don't see it like that. so Bob, I talked yesterday about the grumbling of the children of Israel. That was their default setting. They're constantly doing that. But, but we constantly do that too. And the Bible says, Philippians 2:14, do all things without grumbling. Or disputing, that's arguing, so that you will prove yourselves to be blameless and innocent children of God above reproach in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation among whom you appear as lights in the world. I went on a mission trip with, a friend of mine who was from Ecuador, and we led this mission trip to Venezuela. And he told us before we went, he said, listen, do not complain about the food, about the accommodations, about how hot it is. He said, these people look up to us as the mature Christians and we're coming to help them grow. And he said, if you complain, it just ruins your testimony. And Bob, we have a lot of complaining Christians and it doesn't help our testimony. So if you want to make a difference at work, be somebody that works hard, be somebody that others look up to. Don't be somebody that participates in the office gossip or leads the office gossip, or constantly whines and gripes and complains about this and that and the other. yeah, we need to point out issues in our culture that are not good. But we don't need to be gripers. We need to be praisers and we need to be people that are focusing others on. Look to Jesus. He's the author of the Perfecter of Faith.
Dr. Bob Pearle: There again, the one anothers encourage one another, lift up one another, and we do that. We should be doing that by, by not complaining. And when somebody falls short, encourage them. We've got too many people that just speak on the obvious. Well, we all know that this was wrong. Okay, so how do you fix it? That's what we need as people to do that. The idea of complaining. And as I've preached through the scriptures and come to even the spiritual gifts, I remind the people criticism is not a biblical gift. And so, but a lot of people seem to have the gift of criticism.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yeah, well, you know, I, remember Damon Schuch told me this one time, we were talking about guys that are very gifted in business and can run multimillion dollar companies. And Demond told me, he said, yeah, I may not be able to do what that guy does, but he can't do what I do either.
Tim Todd: That's right.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: And so he said, you have to be called to be a pastor. Adrian used to say this. The ministry is a wonderful calling. It's a terrible profession. And if you're not called to do it, you will get rolled by the demands of it.
Dr. Bob Pearle: Well, in my almost 50 years of ministry, the one thing that has sustained me through the Very difficult times is that God called me. And because God has called me, he will get me through these times. Yeah, you want to throw your hands up, you want to quit, but you can't because God has called you.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Right? I love. I had a, an evangelism professor at Southeastern when I was in seminary, was there, there, and he said, you know, you're really called. When you throw in the towel and God throws it back.
Dr. Bob Pearle: That's true.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: It's like, you can't quit. I'm not going to let you quit because I've called you. And the gifts and the calling are irrevocable. Romans 11, I think it's 29. so, Bob, as pastors, what would you say? We're getting ready to come up on a break, and then we'll be taking calls in the next segment. But what would you say to encourage younger guys, starting out in their ministry, starting out in their pastorate? They can hit a lot of obstacles. Things can be tough. Churches can be tough. What would you say to them to encourage them to keep going?
Dr. Bob Pearle: First off, they need. I think it would be helpful for them if they had an older mentor pastor that could walk with them, that they could relate to, that they could consult with and get some wisdom from that person. They also need contemporaries, maybe other preacher friends that they can talk to and, complain to them about what's going on and get how they do it. Instead of complaining to their members or other people in the church, they need those, people to help bounce off things and to speak, out against their frustrations.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Amen to that. Well, we're talking to Dr. Bob Pearle when we come back from the break. We'll be taking your calls. 888-589-8840. That's 885-89840. If you have a question or comment or brief testimony, we would love to hear from you. So give us a call and let's talk.
: If you'd like to contact Pastor Jeff, email pastor jeffromhisheart.org now back to Real Truth for today with Pastor Jeff Schrieve.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Welcome back to the program. Pastor Jeff here talking to my friend Dr. Bob Pearle, the pastor the. Of, of Birchman Baptist Church in Fort Worth, Texas. He's been there, almost 30 years, getting ready to celebrate. 30 years. And, Bob, Lord willing, you're going to be there for 30 years.
Dr. Bob Pearle: Yes, sir. Lord willing. And, he gives me strength and I'm still alive.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yes. Amen to that. I had a, conversation with Jerry Vines, just about a week ago. Jerry's 89 years old and still sharp as a tackle. And, you know, he retired fairly, fairly young, you know, as we think about that, 68 years old. And he told me, he said, I didn't lose my fire for preaching, but I lost my fire for pastoring. And First Baptist Jacksonville Large Church. just, you know, he said, I knew it was just time for me. we haven't really touched on this, Bob, but, how do you think. Ah. And no doubt you've probably talked to some guys. How do you prepare for the future as far as transitioning? And when does the Lord want me to transition to a different position?
Dr. Bob Pearle: Well, I've always believed that you need to go until God says stop. And so as long as God gives me good health, as long as he gives me fire in my belly and a vision, I want to continue. so right now, I'm not looking, at. At stopping. So I don't know really how to answer that question, because. But I do know that in the day and the time that the Lord wants me to hang it up, I will not quit preaching.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Right.
Dr. Bob Pearle: You know, that's just what God's called me to do. I tell everybody I preach at the drop of a hat, and I'll drop the hat, but I want to, I will slow down, but I will never stop. I don't believe that retirement is in the Bible.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Well, it's like our friend Steve Brumbelow.
Dr. Bob Pearle: Exactly.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: I think he was. Was he 70 years old when he stepped down from the pastorate?
Dr. Bob Pearle: Yes.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: And then he started preaching overseas and had a great ministry there. And so, yeah, you never stop serving the Lord. And I had, Paige Patterson, I got to sit down with him just last week. And, you know, Paige is, I think he's 84 years old, but he said, hey, one of the things about getting older, you got to stay busy. You got to be doing things. He's working. He says he's working on four books.
Dr. Bob Pearle: Yes.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: And so, he's got lots going on. We're going to air that program this Friday with Dr. Paige Patterson. But, it is very rewarding to talk to these guys that are seasoned in the faith and that have been there, done that, been around the block, as you said, with young pastors, you need to find an older guy that can mentor you, that can help you navigate through some of the rough waters so you don't step on the landmines, which is easy to do. As a young guy, it's very easy
Dr. Bob Pearle: to do because you don't see them. The landmines many times are camouflaged because your lack of experience, you can't see it. But an older pastor can see that, that threat, that danger, and warn the younger pastor.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: You know, people know about Isaiah 40, 31. It's a very famous verse. But, what it says before that, it says, though young men grow weary and tired and vigorous young men stumble badly. We have vigorous young men that are called by God. But you can stumble badly if you're not careful. And, you can sometimes you have zeal, but not according to knowledge, as it says about the Jews. And you can do something that's not wise and you can get yourself fired for it at a church.
Dr. Bob Pearle: Well, that's true. And I remember, even before I was pastoring, though, I can remember and I look back upon my life, of faith, and I can remember how early on I had so much zeal, but, man, I did some of the dumbest things. but you have zeal without knowledge. And that's the beauty. You, you can't teach that. You know, maturity is walking with the Lord over time. You just don't. You, you can't take a pill, you can't read it. All of a sudden, boom, you're mature. That has, that takes time, right?
Pastor Jeff Schreve: It really does. We're going to the phone lines 888-589-8840. That's triple 858-9840. If you have a question, a comment, brief testimony. Love to hear from you. And we have Krish on the line from Texas. Krish, welcome to Real Truth for today.
Caroline: Yes, thanks. My call. I wanted to say I was blessed to attend your church. Last to hear, Bill Federer. So thank you for hosting him. I loved it. And I actually had to go and figure out how I could find that, that PowerPoint to share it with people. I had several friends that couldn't make it and I found it and I shared it everywhere. I had to listen to it three more times. It was very fast. He's very knowledgeable. And I had to rewind it, the images again. But if, you go to American Minute.com that Bill Federer's website.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yes.
Caroline: And then another one, it was YouTube.com backslash@billfetter. He spoke at Bill Hibbs at Jack Hibbs Church. And it's on there as well. So, yes, if you go, you can type in the entire history of Islam and muhammad in, in 68 minutes and it's a Jack real life Jack hips. It was phenomenal. Thank you for hosting him.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yes, well, we had him a while back and Bob just had him. And so yeah, Bill, listening to Bill Federer is like drinking from a fire hydrant. I mean it's coming at you. And as we said, Bob, if he didn't have PowerPoint, it would be really hard to follow.
Dr. Bob Pearle: Couldn't follow. And what's interesting too is his, email or it's called the American Minute.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yes.
Dr. Bob Pearle: It's really not an American minute. It should be the American half hour because you just go through his stuff that he sends you.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: It's chock full of stuff.
Dr. Bob Pearle: Yeah. It takes you more than a minute to read it. It takes you several minutes.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Well, I think the amazing thing to me, and I love Bill, he's just got a great heart, such a sweet, spirited guy. But his ability to recall all those details, dates, names, places and keep it all together, I don't know how he does that.
Dr. Bob Pearle: That's amazing to me because, we're probably around the same age and I have to stop and think sometimes about when was that? Who was that? I mean, it just rolls off his tongue, right?
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yeah. Something else. So for our listeners out there, if you've never heard Bill Federer, I encourage you, just as Krish was saying, go to YouTube, go to his American minute and William J. Federer. He's got great books, chock full of information. he stands for the truth. He recognizes, the dangers that are facing America. The red green alliance, as you talked about, with Islam, joining arms with the Marxists. This is a serious.
Dr. Bob Pearle: He also has a great book on socialism.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: He really does. Well, thank you Krish, I appreciate that. We have Paul on the line from Texas. Paul, welcome to Real Truth for today.
Caroline: yes, I just wanted to echo what you, your guest and the point you were making about having totally different worship style services. I think, there was a church I went to and we had a new building and we moved to a new building and the youth minister just remodeled the whole, the whole old building to where it looked like some kind of, you know, nightclub for 20 somethings, to be honest. And that in of itself wasn't the problem, but the problem was when you create an atmosphere of like, okay, here's the worship service and center where we're going to have, you know, to use for saying the skinny jeans and the loud, rock music and other and other things. And then here's where the old folks go. You create this. I would Say artificial segregation, like, well, there's your God and your culture and then here's our God and our culture as opposed to melding some combinations of both. And creating that worship should be a unifying experience from, you know, 4 years old up to, you know, 84 years old and beyond, you know.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yeah, yeah, that's a good point, Paul. You know, Bob, when you think about, okay, so the Jews, they sang out of the Psalms. That was the Jewish songbook. And it doesn't seem like they had a, like the younger generation wanted to do different kind of music. It's just like they, that's just what they did.
Dr. Bob Pearle: Right, right. Well, and that's why it talked about you move one generation, one generation teaches the next generation. The next generation. And that's Deuteronomy 6:4. And you're supposed to teach the other generations today. and I agree with the listener, I understand, pastors wanting to build their congregations. Every pastor wants their churches to grow. And so they think, well, if I have this contemporary service which those of us who are older say, well that's like a rock band and so forth. And then you have the other. And as, and when I say the other, I'm not talking about just like 1950 singing out of the hymns and that's it. But there can be a medium, in that because there is some good worship music that's written today. Every generation has it. The problem is though, you are really having two separate churches in and you are creating a, philosophy, a ah, difference there that can bite the pastor over time.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Well, okay, Bob, I don't know what you think about this, but multi campus churches, I've never felt led to do that. to me, you know, it used to be way back when if a church sensed that, hey, we need a church over there, they just start another church over there. Now I think churches ought to start churches. I don't think outside agencies should start churches. But I think these campuses that beam in the pastor, I don't see that in the NewSong Testament.
Dr. Bob Pearle: No, from my perspective, that's not biblical. In fact, in my first book, the Vanishing Church Searching for significance in the 21st century, and you can get it on Amazon, that book, the, the thesis primarily of that book is that the more a church stumbles over herself to become relevant to society, the more irrelevant they become. And so all of these satellite campuses, the, and as I point out in that book, what is that doing but nothing but building the ego of that senior pastor? Because what you just said is the historical way that we would plant new churches. You would take, some members out of your church, and let's say we needed a church on the east side, so 30 to 50 people would go plant that church. And then when that church was able financially to stand on its own, you cut them loose, just like you do your children, and let them, under the lordship of Christ, do that. But the problem is now, because of technology, well, we think we, you know, can do that. Well, there are many, many good pastors. And so these satellite churches, that is a business or a corporate approach to the church. You are franchising the church, McDonald's and. Yeah, Mac Church. And so I don't believe that that's biblical at all.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yeah, I'm with you on that. Well, we have Linda on the line from Texas. Linda, how are you today?
Caroline: I am fine. I always. You talk about the word encouragement. I get encouraged every time I listen to your program. But I wanted to, talk about how our pastors need to be encouraged. And, I take notes every Sunday, and I pay attention to one thing in particular that really stands out to me. And then I am able to kind of share that with him, and it encourages him. And I looked at Isaiah 55. I pray. there's, like a little room in our church. And I've been going to my church for 40 years, and this man went from worship leader to assistant pastor, and now he is our pastor. But this word. So my word that comes from my mouth will not return to me empty, but will accomplish what I please and prosper what I send it to do. And that's what I see. and what I'm saying here is we really need to encourage our pastors, you know, encourages us to take notes. And, so I just wanted to call and say that just they need. That they need to know we are listening, and they need to know that we are hearing what they're saying. And.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yeah, amen to that. Well, I appreciate, Linda. You always encourage me. And I'm so glad, grateful. We have, time for one more call. We have Roy from NewSong Hampshire on the line. Roy, go ahead.
Tim Todd: Hey, Pastor Jeff. I just wanted to say something. There's a curse, and I think it's in Isaiah 3. And it goes on and talks about how. Where your children will be your, oppressors and your women will rule over you. And what I'm saying is the problem with the church, the modern church, is that we have allowed women to dominate the pulpit and have allowed women to. To dominate leadership in the church. And so when you have women in leadership, this has allowed Islam to roll in our nation. They don't have. They don't respect women and children. They only respect male dominance. And so that's what has happened in our country. That is what has happened in our churches. We have feminized our churches. We have allowed women in the pulpit. I mean, I'm not saying women can't teach, but Paul has outlined clearly leadership roles. He outlined it clearly. And so many churches don't want to even abide by that.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yeah, that's a great point, Roy. we need to. We need to do church the way God set it up. And if we don't, he's not going to bless that.
Dr. Bob Pearle: That's correct.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Well, Bob, thanks for being my guest today. I appreciate it so much, my friend. I appreciate your friendship, appreciate your stand for biblical truth and to speak the truth in love. That's what we're commanded to do. I encourage all pastors to do that. Don't be afraid. Don't be a coward. Be courageous. And, remember what God told, Joshua, have I not commanded you? Be strong and courageous. Do not tremble or be dismayed, for the Lord, your God is with you wherever you go. God bless you. Thanks for listening. Today on American Family Radio. Shine and share, and the Lord God will use you as his witness. God bless you.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Well, good Monday morning, and welcome to Real Truth for today. Pastor Jeff Schrieve here wanted to read to you from Psalm 145, a Psalm of David. He says this. I will extol you, my God, O King, and I will bless your name forever and ever. Every day. I, will bless you, and I will praise your name forever and ever. Great is the Lord, and highly to be praised, and his greatness is unsearchable. One generation shall praise your works to another and shall declare your mighty glory. Acts.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: I think about that, Psalm 145. 4. One generation shall praise your works to another. You know, it's the job of the older generation to pass the baton of faith to the younger generation. And if we don't do that, Christianity is just one generation from being extinct. We know God always has a remnant, but it's our job to pass our faith, to our children, our grandchildren, and keep it going. Well, we want to talk about that today and how we can do that and how we can be bold in our faith, courageous in our faith. How we can have churches that are bold and courageous, that are engaging as salt and light in the culture. And to help me do that is my friend Dr. Bob Pearle. Bob is the pastor of Birchman Baptist Church in Fort Worth, Texas. Been there since 1998.
Dr. Bob Pearle: Yes, sir. Almost 30 years.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yes. That's, pretty amazing in today's world, Bob, you know, we don't have a lot of guys that have that, that kind of long tenure.
Dr. Bob Pearle: Yes.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: guys tend to bail out or bounce around. so in your, ministry, how many positions did you have before you came to Birchman?
Dr. Bob Pearle: Birchman is my fourth pastorate, and Birchman is actually an unusual church because I followed a man who was there for 29 years.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Oh, wow.
Dr. Bob Pearle: So for almost 60 years, they've had two pastors.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: as we know. We learned that from First Baptist, Dallas, George W. Tritt, who was there for how long? 40 something years?
Dr. Bob Pearle: almost.
Tim Todd: Yeah.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: And then wa. That was. Criswell was there for 50 years. And then after that, they started to.
Dr. Bob Pearle: Yeah, you had several pastors between Dr. Criswell and Robert Jeffers.
Tim Todd: Yeah, yeah.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: it is hard to follow a guy that's greatly beloved. And I was talking to a friend of mine the other day who loves Alabama football, and it's like, how do you follow Nick Saban? I mean, whoever you are, you're not Nick Saban. I mean, I don't think you're going to be better in terms of his football prowess, you know, and so you can only go down, and, you
Dr. Bob Pearle: know, I am blessed to be able to survive that. I did not know if I was going to survive following, the previous pastor there. my first several years were very, very difficult. But general, the second guy, following somebody of that team. In fact, Adrian Rogers used to talk about the third dog. His illustration was for. You had R.G. lee, right. And he was there for 33 years. And then you had Ramsey Pollard, who came and was the president of the Tennessee Baptists. He only made it 10 years, and Pollard lived in the shadow of Lee. They wanted to know, are you going to wear a white suit like he does? Are you going to kneel like he does? And so forth. And so then after. After Pollard, then you had Adrian Rogers.
Caroline: Right.
Dr. Bob Pearle: And the way Adrian always explained it to us young seminary, students, he said, you know, it's like a dog. You get a dog and you just love that dog and the dog dies. So then you want to get a dog just like that dog that died, right. And you get it and you realize that's not the same dog. And then when that. When you don't have that dog anymore now you get a dog you want. And that's the way, Adrian says that, why he was so successful there.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Okay, so, Bob, for you, when you came following a guy that had been there for that long, 29 years.
Dr. Bob Pearle: 29.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: did he stay in the church?
Dr. Bob Pearle: Yes.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Okay. Which is kind of, in the world of pastors, we kind of know you don't stay in the church. You leave to help the other guy out. There's nothing written in stone on that, but that's just kind of a common courtesy. did you ever have discussions with him about maybe you should leave?
Dr. Bob Pearle: Very much so. It was very difficult. And, And so I don't want to get into it, because even his family is still in the church. And they, they do great. But with him, there was some issues that we had and we had talked about it, and he, just decided, okay, I'll just be quiet. Because at first he actually fought against me.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Oh, wow. Okay.
Dr. Bob Pearle: So, it's just one of those things. But, you know, God was great, grateful, gracious. And I was blessed because I just kept my, my, nose to the grind and continue to do what I believe God wanted me to do. And here I am.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Well, you were a young guy.
Dr. Bob Pearle: 43.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yeah. Relatively speaking. you know, I talked, yesterday about, I'm doing a series on numbers, Bob. And so we were in numbers 11, how the people groan and complain. And Moses said, God, why did you give me this assignment? If this is the way you're going to treat me, just kill me. And so I just said, how, you know, you don't want to be part of the rabble that stirs people up, that gets people, you know, focused on the wrong thing to where the pastor wants to die. and I tell the church, I said, I've never had that prayer, God kill me. But I have thought about God killed this person or that person, and obviously, tongue in cheek, yeah, sure. But, you know, it is. People don't realize that can be very, very difficult. One of the things that Debbie and I, experienced, because God called me in the ministry when I was in the secular workforce and I'd been doing that for ten plus years. when you're working outside the church, church is your oasis. Church is where you go to recharge. When you're a pastor. Your work and your church are all the same place. And so if things go haywire in your work, it's in your church. Your oasis becomes a difficult spot. that can be really hard for your family.
Dr. Bob Pearle: Oh, it was very hard. And I, thank God that I have a very faithful, loving, praying wife. And, she spent many, many hours in prayer. She knew what I was going through. our son at the time, who was in high school, we did our best to protect him from all of the. Yay. Yeah. That was going on in the church because we did not want him to wind up like a lot of pastor kids, that when they get up on their own, they know what's going on. And so they don't want to have anything to do with the Lord or the church. so we're grateful that God protected our son in that regard because he loved the church. He came. he was very faithful and then he actually became a pastor as well. Wanted to be a pastor, which surprised us.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Well, okay, Bob, when we think about that, we want our churches to be healthy. We want it to be a genuine place. just like a healthy family. Every family is going to have issues. No family has an idyllic existence. You know, we grew up with shows like Father Knows Best or Leave it to Beaver. And that family was always so idyllic in the way they sat down. And Ward always wore his tie to dinner. You know, June always had pearls and a dress on when she vacuumed. Well, that's just not real life. But we were kind of connected. Well, that's what it's supposed to be like. But, I think one of the things that can hurt people is when you get to see guys become deacons, and all of a sudden they see that some people are upset about this, that or the other. And there's like, I thought everybody just loved each other here. And people are people. You deal with people. And not all people are walking with the Lord.
Dr. Bob Pearle: That's correct. And that's one of the great, shocks of new staff members come on. Or even in, some of the, assistants that you have working at the church that have come from the outside world, and they come and they've got this kind of utopian vision that everybody in the church is nice and sweet and loves everybody and they see the other side of that. And so you have to guide them to say, look, everybody has bad days, and not everybody walks with the Lord and not everybody is at the same place in the Lord. you've got to understand that this is where you have to learn to forgive. You've got to pray for them, you've got to overlook it, and you've got to go on. Don't let what somebody else is doing that is not biblical and not following the Lord. Don't let that hinder your walk with God.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Well, you think about Acts, chapter 15, Paul and Barnabas going on the second missionary journey. They got in such a big argument that they couldn't keep going together.
Dr. Bob Pearle: That's right. And they had to split up.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: And so that is. I mean, I think Paul is arguably the greatest Christian who ever lived. for sure the most knowledgeable Christian who ever lived. but if he had a run in and Barnabas, the son of encouragement, it's like, if any two guys ought to get along, it's those two guys. And yet they hit an impasse.
Dr. Bob Pearle: They did. And sadly, today, that's how too many churches Begin because people in churches, don't get along. And so one splits from another. And many of the churches are started like that through fights. But the good news about that is Barnabas came back along and later in Paul's ministry, he was there supporting him and helping him.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yeah, I heard. I, think it was MacArthur that said, okay, Barnabas should have acquiesced to Paul because Paul was the leader. But he thought that Paul was probably not right in not wanting to take Jon, Mark not wanting to give him another chance. And it all had to do with he bailed out. I don't want guys that bail out. And that was basically Paul's attitude. Fool me once, shame on me on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. but it is interesting how in ministry, and God works that together for good. Now you had two teams going out as opposed to just one. But it can be difficult. And people, people, that are more, maybe more naive in the faith just think everything should be idyllic and it's not.
Dr. Bob Pearle: It's not. And because people are people, we all are sinful. We all have that sin nature. And we're different. And so what may, trigger something in one person won't trigger it in another person. And so that's where we all need to learn to forgive. And like in the Bible, the one another's in the Bible, we need to pray for one another, encourage one another. And so that's where we just need to learn to grow in our faith and realize that not everybody's going to do things the way we do it.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Okay, Bob, you, you went to Southwestern Seminary?
Dr. Bob Pearle: No, I went to Mid America Baptist Seminary.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Oh, you did? Okay. That was in the early days.
Dr. Bob Pearle: Yes. I started in 1977. It was the first full school year in Memphis. They had, moved to Memphis in 76, but they were not in the Jewish synagogue at that time because it was being renovated. So they had a half a year. So they had the spring of 77, only a half a year in the Jewish synagogue. And then in the fall of 77 is when I started. And so that was the full completion, complete year in, in, the synagogue.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: How many students back then?
Dr. Bob Pearle: Oh, I don't remember. 350, 400.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: That's pretty, that's a lot for a startup.
Dr. Bob Pearle: Yeah, it was five years old at that time. But you know, this is another heartbreak today too, because every seminary, every one is the enrollment in the M. Div. Students is declining.
Dr. Bob Pearle: All across the board, everywhere.
Caroline: Right.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: And that is the degree for a pastor exactly? A Master of Divinity. Okay, so when you were in Memphis, you went to Adrian's church?
Dr. Bob Pearle: No, actually, I was on staff at First Baptist Church of Hughes, Arkansas, 40 miles west of Memphis. So I commuted 40 miles every day for my, my, master's degree. However, Adrian, Dr. Rogers spoke in chapel and spoke in class and so forth, and we had a lot of interaction with him during that time.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: He's, interesting. So tomorrow, Steve Rogers is coming on the program.
Dr. Bob Pearle: Oh, great.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: For some weird reason, I've had a couple of dreams about Adrian and being in meetings with, you know, revival meetings or something with him. And it's just kind of out of the blue. And so I said, that's, that's kind of weird. I mean, Adrian's been gone for 20 years. And I said, I'm going to call Steve. And, you know, Steve sounds just like Adrian. He's got that voice, just like Adrian. So we're going to talk about Adrian tomorrow. But you're listening to Real Truth for today, and my guest is Dr. Bob Pearle in the studio. Bob has been the pastor of Birchman Baptist Church since 1998. He's also the pastor or the author of the Courageous Church Standing Boldly, for Truth in a Cowardly World. You're listening to Real Truth for today on American Family Radio. We'll be right back.
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Pastor Jeff Schreve: Welcome back to the program. Pastor Jeff here talking to my friend Dr. Bob Pearle, the pastor of Birchman Baptist Church in, Fort Worth, Texas. Now, you're very close to the seminary, aren't you? In proximity?
Dr. Bob Pearle: Yeah, we're about 15 minutes from Southwestern.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Okay. So we had Dean Sieberhagen here, and Dean, had talked, I think. Had he been to your church? No, he hasn't. Okay. He was talking about Birchman, when he was here. But Dean and I have been good friends for a long time. He came and did a whole, We had a whole Sunday on Islam. I know. You just had a weekend on Islam with, our friend William J. Federer.
Dr. Bob Pearle: That's correct.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: And, Federer is. He's got to be one of the most knowledgeable guys I've ever met.
Dr. Bob Pearle: Yeah. He is a walking encyclopedia of Islam, of American history, world history, many things.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: It's amazing. You can ask him. I see him at the, National Religious Broadcasters Convention, and I'll just throw out a date. I said, okay, Bill here is, 450 BC tell me what was going on, and he can do it. He can tell you who the players are. It's amazing. So, good, good friend. We're, doing a trip to Washington, D.C. with Dr. Gary Frazier, and I'm leading about 20 of our church members there. And Bill is going to be there to take, us through the Capitol building and explain all the history of everything. So looking forward to that. Okay, so Psalm 145, 4. One generation shall praise your works to another and shall declare your mighty acts. Bob, from your perspective as a pastor for many, many years, how are we doing, you think, as a church in general, passing the baton to the next generation, struggling.
Dr. Bob Pearle: and this is one thing, too, that the younger generation is different from our generation. it seems to me that. Well, when I first came to Bertram, let's put it that way, many generations attended church together. And you'd have the grandparents and the parents and the grandchildren, and they all came together, they all worshiped together, then they would go to lunch or whatever. I have noticed, though, in the past decade, or two, that what's happened is a lot of the younger generation, they want to go out on their own. They don't want to worship with their parents. Now, there's probably many reasons for that, one of which, their styles. they don't like the style of the way the parents worship and so forth. Even though there's so much similarity there, it's not as radically different as one would think, but they just want to kind of be out on their own and so that's what they're doing. and to me, I think that that is not as productive as it could be. There is something very beneficial, I think, of all of the generations worshiping together to be there. You know, our son died five years ago this Wednesday. And, he was a pastor, but when he was in school, even in college, and. And after he got married, we all worshiped together. It wasn't until he broke out on his own to start in ministry, that we separated. But there was so much fun to be at. And it's just a blessing to be at church worshiping there. Your son is. Your children are, the grandchildren. I mean, there's. I don't know, maybe it's just because I'm getting older and I'm a granddad that I like everybody to be together. But you're seeing more of a fragmentation of our families today for a variety of reasons.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: You know, I think, because I was at Champion Forrest in Houston, and that was, with Demon Shook. And that was my home church. That's where I met my wife. All my kids got saved and baptized at Champion Forrest. So that's been a special, special place for a long time. But, in those bigger cities, it's more transient, and so people move in and they're looking for friends. And Houston was a great place. It's a terrible place as far as climate, yes, but it's a great place as far as people. And in the church, we didn't have a lot of generations. And I still remember one of the guys on the staff, Bill Upchurch, he was at Greene Acres and Tyler, before he came to Champion Forrest. And he said I wasn't, as familiar with all the generations being in the church because smaller towns tend to have that. We have that a lot at First Baptist Texarkana. And I remember Larry Sims, our associate pastor for 44 years. he told me, he said, now, Jeff, just remember this. When you're talking to somebody, just remember they're related to somebody, other people in the church. So don't ever say anything negative about, you know, anybody, because you don't know who's related. Somebody's there. Everybody's related to somebody in this area. And so that took a little getting used to, because I didn't have that experience at Champion Forrest.
: Yeah.
Dr. Bob Pearle: And I had that, at Birchman, too, when I first came. It's still there today, but not quite, to the degree it was when I first came.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: But the fracturing of, okay, this group meets this is our contemporary service. We meet over there. They don't really have much to do with the classic service or whatever name that people give it. We just have one service. and so everybody's together.
Dr. Bob Pearle: That's what we do, too. We have one service and everybody's together. The music varies. One Sunday it's going to be, more traditional. One Sunday, it might be more contemporary. but see, that's the way a family works. In a family, it's always give and take. When you go out to eat, somebody may want a hamburger, somebody may want Italian. So you compromise, okay? Today we're going to have a hamburger. Next week, or next time we'll go eat Italian. That's the way a family works. And a church is nothing but a large family.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yeah, that's good. You know what I've noticed too, Bob, and, you're a little more mature than I am. Not a whole lot, but, you've been at this longer than I have from a preaching standpoint, because culture is so fractured, and, we grew up watching the same shows. everybody knew about Gilligan's island and Hogan's Heroes and All in the Family. And these, these shows, you could pull illustrations from culture, and everybody seemed to know. Even commercials. Where's the Beef? Everybody knew that. Not everybody. I mean, everything. Now, it's difficult to get an illustration from culture that everybody knows what you're talking about.
Dr. Bob Pearle: That's true, because not, everybody's watching the same thing. But this is part of what we're seeing in the decline of culture as well. For the shows that you mentioned, Father's Nose, best leave it to Beaver. That right. Beavers was my favorite. But all of those, you had what people refer to today as the nuclear family. I prefer the term natural family. That's in God's order. That's the way it generally was. However, today and the comedy shows today, if you'll notice, the father is always the goofus. The mother is always the one that knows how to fix everything. And that's just turning everything on its head today. and sadly, that shows how men today, though, have abrogated their responsibility as a whole. Whole. And are not leading in their families. And when there's a vacuum, somebody's going to do it. And all too often, it's the women.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Bob, from a standpoint of preaching and our churches making a difference, being salt and light, it seems like the culture has made more difference in the church than the church has made in the culture. Charlie, Kirk pointed that out. And I think masterfully. And we have Tim Wildmon coming to First Baptist Texarka this Wednesday night. He's going to talk about being salt and light and making a difference in the culture. I don't know if we just naturally knew that we were supposed to do that back 30, 40 years ago, but today it seems like people don't realize. Take voting for instance. Your vote makes a difference. And if the culture influences that and not your Christianity, something's wrong.
Dr. Bob Pearle: Exactly. The problem is, for years and years, referring to your illustration of voting, it has been attacked, the church has been attacked by the secular culture for speaking against, speaking on any, what they consider cultural, issues. And so therefore many pastors are not wanting to do it. And what they've been doing told in this lie, as we all know, it's taken out of context the separation of church and state, of which the Danbury Baptist with Thomas Jefferson. And we know that's not true. But, but get back to it. What has happened now? People, consciously or unconsciously, are dividing their lives into two segments, a secular part and a sacred part. And, and, even though they may not consciously be doing this, they'. Well, their sacred part is. Well, that's when I go to church and that's the sacred thing. And then maybe in my family and so forth. But then other than that, everything else is secular. Well, no, as a Christian, everything is right. the Lord is overall. Lord overall. And so that means that when I go to the grocery store, I don't leave my Christianity at the front door of the grocery store. When I go to work, I don't leave my Christianity at the front door of that. When I go to school, I don't leave it at the front door of the school. In other words, it's where I am in all times. I am to exhibit and live out my Christian faith. And so people today are afraid, it seems to do that.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Well, you know, the, the coming together is kind of like the huddle in football. When we come together, for church, that's to, hey, we take a break from the game, so to speak. And we're going to be encouraged, we're going to be built up. And then you go back out now you're on.
Dr. Bob Pearle: Right.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: And, people don't see it like that. so Bob, I talked yesterday about the grumbling of the children of Israel. That was their default setting. They're constantly doing that. But, but we constantly do that too. And the Bible says, Philippians 2:14, do all things without grumbling. Or disputing, that's arguing, so that you will prove yourselves to be blameless and innocent children of God above reproach in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation among whom you appear as lights in the world. I went on a mission trip with, a friend of mine who was from Ecuador, and we led this mission trip to Venezuela. And he told us before we went, he said, listen, do not complain about the food, about the accommodations, about how hot it is. He said, these people look up to us as the mature Christians and we're coming to help them grow. And he said, if you complain, it just ruins your testimony. And Bob, we have a lot of complaining Christians and it doesn't help our testimony. So if you want to make a difference at work, be somebody that works hard, be somebody that others look up to. Don't be somebody that participates in the office gossip or leads the office gossip, or constantly whines and gripes and complains about this and that and the other. yeah, we need to point out issues in our culture that are not good. But we don't need to be gripers. We need to be praisers and we need to be people that are focusing others on. Look to Jesus. He's the author of the Perfecter of Faith.
Dr. Bob Pearle: There again, the one anothers encourage one another, lift up one another, and we do that. We should be doing that by, by not complaining. And when somebody falls short, encourage them. We've got too many people that just speak on the obvious. Well, we all know that this was wrong. Okay, so how do you fix it? That's what we need as people to do that. The idea of complaining. And as I've preached through the scriptures and come to even the spiritual gifts, I remind the people criticism is not a biblical gift. And so, but a lot of people seem to have the gift of criticism.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yeah, well, you know, I, remember Damon Schuch told me this one time, we were talking about guys that are very gifted in business and can run multimillion dollar companies. And Demond told me, he said, yeah, I may not be able to do what that guy does, but he can't do what I do either.
Tim Todd: That's right.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: And so he said, you have to be called to be a pastor. Adrian used to say this. The ministry is a wonderful calling. It's a terrible profession. And if you're not called to do it, you will get rolled by the demands of it.
Dr. Bob Pearle: Well, in my almost 50 years of ministry, the one thing that has sustained me through the Very difficult times is that God called me. And because God has called me, he will get me through these times. Yeah, you want to throw your hands up, you want to quit, but you can't because God has called you.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Right? I love. I had a, an evangelism professor at Southeastern when I was in seminary, was there, there, and he said, you know, you're really called. When you throw in the towel and God throws it back.
Dr. Bob Pearle: That's true.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: It's like, you can't quit. I'm not going to let you quit because I've called you. And the gifts and the calling are irrevocable. Romans 11, I think it's 29. so, Bob, as pastors, what would you say? We're getting ready to come up on a break, and then we'll be taking calls in the next segment. But what would you say to encourage younger guys, starting out in their ministry, starting out in their pastorate? They can hit a lot of obstacles. Things can be tough. Churches can be tough. What would you say to them to encourage them to keep going?
Dr. Bob Pearle: First off, they need. I think it would be helpful for them if they had an older mentor pastor that could walk with them, that they could relate to, that they could consult with and get some wisdom from that person. They also need contemporaries, maybe other preacher friends that they can talk to and, complain to them about what's going on and get how they do it. Instead of complaining to their members or other people in the church, they need those, people to help bounce off things and to speak, out against their frustrations.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Amen to that. Well, we're talking to Dr. Bob Pearle when we come back from the break. We'll be taking your calls. 888-589-8840. That's 885-89840. If you have a question or comment or brief testimony, we would love to hear from you. So give us a call and let's talk.
: If you'd like to contact Pastor Jeff, email pastor jeffromhisheart.org now back to Real Truth for today with Pastor Jeff Schrieve.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Welcome back to the program. Pastor Jeff here talking to my friend Dr. Bob Pearle, the pastor the. Of, of Birchman Baptist Church in Fort Worth, Texas. He's been there, almost 30 years, getting ready to celebrate. 30 years. And, Bob, Lord willing, you're going to be there for 30 years.
Dr. Bob Pearle: Yes, sir. Lord willing. And, he gives me strength and I'm still alive.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yes. Amen to that. I had a, conversation with Jerry Vines, just about a week ago. Jerry's 89 years old and still sharp as a tackle. And, you know, he retired fairly, fairly young, you know, as we think about that, 68 years old. And he told me, he said, I didn't lose my fire for preaching, but I lost my fire for pastoring. And First Baptist Jacksonville Large Church. just, you know, he said, I knew it was just time for me. we haven't really touched on this, Bob, but, how do you think. Ah. And no doubt you've probably talked to some guys. How do you prepare for the future as far as transitioning? And when does the Lord want me to transition to a different position?
Dr. Bob Pearle: Well, I've always believed that you need to go until God says stop. And so as long as God gives me good health, as long as he gives me fire in my belly and a vision, I want to continue. so right now, I'm not looking, at. At stopping. So I don't know really how to answer that question, because. But I do know that in the day and the time that the Lord wants me to hang it up, I will not quit preaching.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Right.
Dr. Bob Pearle: You know, that's just what God's called me to do. I tell everybody I preach at the drop of a hat, and I'll drop the hat, but I want to, I will slow down, but I will never stop. I don't believe that retirement is in the Bible.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Well, it's like our friend Steve Brumbelow.
Dr. Bob Pearle: Exactly.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: I think he was. Was he 70 years old when he stepped down from the pastorate?
Dr. Bob Pearle: Yes.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: And then he started preaching overseas and had a great ministry there. And so, yeah, you never stop serving the Lord. And I had, Paige Patterson, I got to sit down with him just last week. And, you know, Paige is, I think he's 84 years old, but he said, hey, one of the things about getting older, you got to stay busy. You got to be doing things. He's working. He says he's working on four books.
Dr. Bob Pearle: Yes.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: And so, he's got lots going on. We're going to air that program this Friday with Dr. Paige Patterson. But, it is very rewarding to talk to these guys that are seasoned in the faith and that have been there, done that, been around the block, as you said, with young pastors, you need to find an older guy that can mentor you, that can help you navigate through some of the rough waters so you don't step on the landmines, which is easy to do. As a young guy, it's very easy
Dr. Bob Pearle: to do because you don't see them. The landmines many times are camouflaged because your lack of experience, you can't see it. But an older pastor can see that, that threat, that danger, and warn the younger pastor.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: You know, people know about Isaiah 40, 31. It's a very famous verse. But, what it says before that, it says, though young men grow weary and tired and vigorous young men stumble badly. We have vigorous young men that are called by God. But you can stumble badly if you're not careful. And, you can sometimes you have zeal, but not according to knowledge, as it says about the Jews. And you can do something that's not wise and you can get yourself fired for it at a church.
Dr. Bob Pearle: Well, that's true. And I remember, even before I was pastoring, though, I can remember and I look back upon my life, of faith, and I can remember how early on I had so much zeal, but, man, I did some of the dumbest things. but you have zeal without knowledge. And that's the beauty. You, you can't teach that. You know, maturity is walking with the Lord over time. You just don't. You, you can't take a pill, you can't read it. All of a sudden, boom, you're mature. That has, that takes time, right?
Pastor Jeff Schreve: It really does. We're going to the phone lines 888-589-8840. That's triple 858-9840. If you have a question, a comment, brief testimony. Love to hear from you. And we have Krish on the line from Texas. Krish, welcome to Real Truth for today.
Caroline: Yes, thanks. My call. I wanted to say I was blessed to attend your church. Last to hear, Bill Federer. So thank you for hosting him. I loved it. And I actually had to go and figure out how I could find that, that PowerPoint to share it with people. I had several friends that couldn't make it and I found it and I shared it everywhere. I had to listen to it three more times. It was very fast. He's very knowledgeable. And I had to rewind it, the images again. But if, you go to American Minute.com that Bill Federer's website.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yes.
Caroline: And then another one, it was YouTube.com backslash@billfetter. He spoke at Bill Hibbs at Jack Hibbs Church. And it's on there as well. So, yes, if you go, you can type in the entire history of Islam and muhammad in, in 68 minutes and it's a Jack real life Jack hips. It was phenomenal. Thank you for hosting him.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yes, well, we had him a while back and Bob just had him. And so yeah, Bill, listening to Bill Federer is like drinking from a fire hydrant. I mean it's coming at you. And as we said, Bob, if he didn't have PowerPoint, it would be really hard to follow.
Dr. Bob Pearle: Couldn't follow. And what's interesting too is his, email or it's called the American Minute.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yes.
Dr. Bob Pearle: It's really not an American minute. It should be the American half hour because you just go through his stuff that he sends you.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: It's chock full of stuff.
Dr. Bob Pearle: Yeah. It takes you more than a minute to read it. It takes you several minutes.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Well, I think the amazing thing to me, and I love Bill, he's just got a great heart, such a sweet, spirited guy. But his ability to recall all those details, dates, names, places and keep it all together, I don't know how he does that.
Dr. Bob Pearle: That's amazing to me because, we're probably around the same age and I have to stop and think sometimes about when was that? Who was that? I mean, it just rolls off his tongue, right?
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yeah. Something else. So for our listeners out there, if you've never heard Bill Federer, I encourage you, just as Krish was saying, go to YouTube, go to his American minute and William J. Federer. He's got great books, chock full of information. he stands for the truth. He recognizes, the dangers that are facing America. The red green alliance, as you talked about, with Islam, joining arms with the Marxists. This is a serious.
Dr. Bob Pearle: He also has a great book on socialism.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: He really does. Well, thank you Krish, I appreciate that. We have Paul on the line from Texas. Paul, welcome to Real Truth for today.
Caroline: yes, I just wanted to echo what you, your guest and the point you were making about having totally different worship style services. I think, there was a church I went to and we had a new building and we moved to a new building and the youth minister just remodeled the whole, the whole old building to where it looked like some kind of, you know, nightclub for 20 somethings, to be honest. And that in of itself wasn't the problem, but the problem was when you create an atmosphere of like, okay, here's the worship service and center where we're going to have, you know, to use for saying the skinny jeans and the loud, rock music and other and other things. And then here's where the old folks go. You create this. I would Say artificial segregation, like, well, there's your God and your culture and then here's our God and our culture as opposed to melding some combinations of both. And creating that worship should be a unifying experience from, you know, 4 years old up to, you know, 84 years old and beyond, you know.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yeah, yeah, that's a good point, Paul. You know, Bob, when you think about, okay, so the Jews, they sang out of the Psalms. That was the Jewish songbook. And it doesn't seem like they had a, like the younger generation wanted to do different kind of music. It's just like they, that's just what they did.
Dr. Bob Pearle: Right, right. Well, and that's why it talked about you move one generation, one generation teaches the next generation. The next generation. And that's Deuteronomy 6:4. And you're supposed to teach the other generations today. and I agree with the listener, I understand, pastors wanting to build their congregations. Every pastor wants their churches to grow. And so they think, well, if I have this contemporary service which those of us who are older say, well that's like a rock band and so forth. And then you have the other. And as, and when I say the other, I'm not talking about just like 1950 singing out of the hymns and that's it. But there can be a medium, in that because there is some good worship music that's written today. Every generation has it. The problem is though, you are really having two separate churches in and you are creating a, philosophy, a ah, difference there that can bite the pastor over time.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Well, okay, Bob, I don't know what you think about this, but multi campus churches, I've never felt led to do that. to me, you know, it used to be way back when if a church sensed that, hey, we need a church over there, they just start another church over there. Now I think churches ought to start churches. I don't think outside agencies should start churches. But I think these campuses that beam in the pastor, I don't see that in the NewSong Testament.
Dr. Bob Pearle: No, from my perspective, that's not biblical. In fact, in my first book, the Vanishing Church Searching for significance in the 21st century, and you can get it on Amazon, that book, the, the thesis primarily of that book is that the more a church stumbles over herself to become relevant to society, the more irrelevant they become. And so all of these satellite campuses, the, and as I point out in that book, what is that doing but nothing but building the ego of that senior pastor? Because what you just said is the historical way that we would plant new churches. You would take, some members out of your church, and let's say we needed a church on the east side, so 30 to 50 people would go plant that church. And then when that church was able financially to stand on its own, you cut them loose, just like you do your children, and let them, under the lordship of Christ, do that. But the problem is now, because of technology, well, we think we, you know, can do that. Well, there are many, many good pastors. And so these satellite churches, that is a business or a corporate approach to the church. You are franchising the church, McDonald's and. Yeah, Mac Church. And so I don't believe that that's biblical at all.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yeah, I'm with you on that. Well, we have Linda on the line from Texas. Linda, how are you today?
Caroline: I am fine. I always. You talk about the word encouragement. I get encouraged every time I listen to your program. But I wanted to, talk about how our pastors need to be encouraged. And, I take notes every Sunday, and I pay attention to one thing in particular that really stands out to me. And then I am able to kind of share that with him, and it encourages him. And I looked at Isaiah 55. I pray. there's, like a little room in our church. And I've been going to my church for 40 years, and this man went from worship leader to assistant pastor, and now he is our pastor. But this word. So my word that comes from my mouth will not return to me empty, but will accomplish what I please and prosper what I send it to do. And that's what I see. and what I'm saying here is we really need to encourage our pastors, you know, encourages us to take notes. And, so I just wanted to call and say that just they need. That they need to know we are listening, and they need to know that we are hearing what they're saying. And.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yeah, amen to that. Well, I appreciate, Linda. You always encourage me. And I'm so glad, grateful. We have, time for one more call. We have Roy from NewSong Hampshire on the line. Roy, go ahead.
Tim Todd: Hey, Pastor Jeff. I just wanted to say something. There's a curse, and I think it's in Isaiah 3. And it goes on and talks about how. Where your children will be your, oppressors and your women will rule over you. And what I'm saying is the problem with the church, the modern church, is that we have allowed women to dominate the pulpit and have allowed women to. To dominate leadership in the church. And so when you have women in leadership, this has allowed Islam to roll in our nation. They don't have. They don't respect women and children. They only respect male dominance. And so that's what has happened in our country. That is what has happened in our churches. We have feminized our churches. We have allowed women in the pulpit. I mean, I'm not saying women can't teach, but Paul has outlined clearly leadership roles. He outlined it clearly. And so many churches don't want to even abide by that.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yeah, that's a great point, Roy. we need to. We need to do church the way God set it up. And if we don't, he's not going to bless that.
Dr. Bob Pearle: That's correct.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Well, Bob, thanks for being my guest today. I appreciate it so much, my friend. I appreciate your friendship, appreciate your stand for biblical truth and to speak the truth in love. That's what we're commanded to do. I encourage all pastors to do that. Don't be afraid. Don't be a coward. Be courageous. And, remember what God told, Joshua, have I not commanded you? Be strong and courageous. Do not tremble or be dismayed, for the Lord, your God is with you wherever you go. God bless you. Thanks for listening. Today on American Family Radio. Shine and share, and the Lord God will use you as his witness. God bless you.
Psalm 145:4
“One generation shall praise Your works to another, And shall declare Your mighty acts.”
In this episode of Real Truth for Today, Pastor Jeff Schreve is joined by Dr. Bob Pearle, pastor of Birchman Baptist Church in Fort Worth, Texas, to discuss what it means for Christians and churches to be bold and courageous in their faith.
Drawing from Psalm 145:4, they discuss the importance of passing the faith from one generation to the next and why churches should bring generations together rather than becoming increasingly divided by age, worship style, or culture. They also talk about the challenges pastors face, the difficulties of following a beloved longtime pastor, and the importance of having older pastors and mentors who can guide younger ministers through difficult seasons.
Pastor Jeff and Dr. Pearle also address the church's responsibility to be salt and light in a fractured culture. They discuss living out Christianity in every area of life, avoiding the constant complaining and criticism that can damage a Christian's testimony, encouraging one another, and standing firmly for biblical truth.
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