Examining Karl Marx's Ideals and the Misunderstandings Surrounding Marxism
Paul Kengor: Point three in the Communist Manifesto calls for abolition of all right of inheritance. What hypocrisy. Marx and Engels got all their money through inheritance. Most students of most universities who take a course on Marxism are going to get a pro Marx perspective. People say, well, the Communist Manifesto is a pretty good book.
Paul Kengor: I'm like, well, have you read it? I think what's most commonly misunderstood about Marxism is the idea that it's about sharing and helping your fellow man. I mean, it's not that at all. The word love is hardly mentioned at all in the communist manifest. And when it is, it has nothing to do with loving your neighbor. People who take this course here, they're going to get the actual truth.
The Destructive Nature of Communism and Its Call for Total Societal Overthrow
Communism abolishes eternal truths. It abolishes all religion and all morality. When you encounter an ideology that evil and that destructive, it is the most colossal case of political carnage in history. I feel compelled to share that with other people. This guy is no tinkerer. This is a guy who wants to take it all down. Is an ideology and a man thinking of pure destruction
Dr. Paul Kinginger Discusses 'The Devil and Karl Marx' and the Influence on Today's Youth
all.
Sandy Rios: Ah, right. Sandy Rios with you. Well, that was the voice of Dr. Paul Kinger, who's been with me many times. And he recently, in the last few years, wrote a book called the Devil and Karl Marx, which was remarkable. But isn't it interesting? Our kids are marching in the streets shouting the principles of Karl Marx, actually saying these things, about, equity and all of the things that come out of Marxists demolishing the family. some of them you may not even know about. But our young people graduating from our universities are just brainwashed with this rot. And so today we're going to have a discussion about, yes, I prejudiced you because I have very strong feelings about this. I personally lived in Berlin, Germany, during the height of the Cold War. I saw the oppression of the East German people. I have visited North Korea. I was there right before 9 11, the day before. I saw the oppression of those people. I had been in the Soviet Union before it was, before it broke up and the communist lock on the Soviet Union was there. I saw the oppression of those people. So I know a little bit about this. I've tasted it, touched it and breathed it. And so it's been a passion of mine for the last many decades to bring the truth about communism to everyone that I talk to. So today I have a special guest, Dr. Erwin Lutzer, who's written a book, a new book, and this is a little different twist on this. It's called Marx and Moody. Now, if you don't know who Dwight L. Moody is, we're going to talk about that and explain why the pairing of those two. And we'll have a great discussion on this topic today. But first, well, finally we have some good news.
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Introduction to Dr. Erwin Lutzer and the Book 'Marx and Moody'
And make your most generous donation. All right, take out your pen and paper, boys and girls. It's time to study, go to school. And we'll do it with the master teacher, Dr. Erwin Lutzer. On today's edition of Sandy Rios, 24 7, from American Family Radio, Sandy Rios. We are not called to be nice. We are often called to be confrontational. And here with me in D.C. is Fox News contributor Sandy Rios. I think the most important thing we need to demonstrate to our children is genuineness, that we actually believe what we say. We believe. Longtime Fox News contributor Sandy Rios.
Sandy Rios: Thanks very much for being with us. Seek justice. Not social justice, but God's justice. What's right and what's wrong. Sandy Rios is with the American Family Association, a pro life radio talk show host.
Sandy Rios: We've got to say this is the line. Life is sacred. Director of governmental affairs for the American Family Association. Step up, speak up, say something, do something. All right, Sandy Rios with you on Sandy Rios, 24 7, and it's my privilege to introduce and enjoy talking to my good friend Dr. Erwin Lutzer. Dr. Lutzer is a, pastor emeritus of the Moody Church in Chicago, where he served as the senior pastor for 36 years. Dr. Lutzer earned his B. Bachelor in theology from Winnipeg Bible College and theology master from Dallas Theological Seminary and a master's in philosophy, which is always interesting to me, which I'm sure helps him take on these big characters of history. From, Loyola University and an honorary lld that's, from Simon Greenleaf School of Law. So, that's Dr. Irwin Lutzer. He is a part. There's a. A team of. There's, two writers to this book. It's Marx and Moody. Two contemporaries, two Gospels, two tombstones, and one choice. And with that, I welcome Dr. Lutzer. Good morning, and thanks for joining us.
Pastor Erwin Lutzer: I'm so glad that I can be with you.
The Origins of 'Marx and Moody': Comparing Marx and D.L. Moody as Contemporaries
Sandy and I want to talk about how this book came about, and you and I both know it is important. I hope that those who listen understand the extent of its importance, especially in America today.
Sandy Rios: Yes. You know, before we jump into the content of Marx, because your part of this book was Karl Marx and Greg, Quigle's part was Dwight L. Moody. Can you give us, just a snapshot before we jump into Marx here of the contrast between Marx and Moody, and give us also a snapshot into who in the world was Dwydell Moody.
Pastor Erwin Lutzer: All right, let me. Let me tell you how the book came about. Just over a year ago, I was going to give a lecture at the tomb of Karl Marx, which I did. But while I was in London, which, was just over a year ago, I gave a lecture at the tomb of Karl Marx in London. He's buried in a cemetery there. And as I was preparing the lecture, it dawned on me he was a contemporary of D.L. moody. Who was D.L. moody? Well, if people know of Billy Graham. Well, he was. That is to say, Moody was the Billy Graham of the 1800s. He came to Chicago, born in poverty, accepted Christ as savior, began Moody Church and Moody Bible Institute, and, that is in the 1800s. And, preached to large crowds. Preached to large crowds in England. Even 20,000 a night without a microphone, if you can imagine that. And attending one of the services is Frederick Engels, who helped write the Communist Manifesto. So that's their connection. They were contemporaries for 46 years. They certainly knew of each other. As a matter of fact, Marx, you know, spoke about, I should say that Engels is the one who spoke mostly about Moody and his associate Sankey. And, also blamed Moody and Sankey for the fact that communism did not come to England. He said it's because of revivalists such as Moody and Sankey and the Dangerous aid of the Salvation Army. Bottom line, Engels was saying the reason that communism didn't come to England is because it just had roots that were too deeply Christian. There weren't enough people who were willing to steal and to overthrow and to destroy and to kill to bring about a revolution. So that was the analysis that was made. And Moody knew fully about communism. He talked about it when he was here in America and said these words that if we don't spread the gospel, the leaven of communism is going to come to America and bring about a great destruction. Actually, he talked about it, in terms of a great revolution the likes of which America has never seen.
Analyzing Marx's Motivation and Communism's Call for Total Overthrow of Property
Sandy Rios: You know, Dr. Lutzer, when I think about communism, you know, you always wonder about the strange force that it is. But I suspect that part of its power is that it's rooted in some truth. So can you just kind of give us an idea from your perspective, why Marx was so, well, before we get into who he really was, why he was so concerned about the poor, allegedly, and what was the catalyst for that?
Pastor Erwin Lutzer: Well, there's no doubt that he was writing against great evils that were taking place in England and America. You know, during the Industrial Revolution, you had the rise of factories and factories, needed workers, and workers would come there to the factories and work for next to nothing. And if they got fired or if they got sick, there was no fallback, plan for them. And so he was writing against legitimate abuses. But as I point out in the book, he had a different way he could have gone, especially in England. Wilberforce had already put an end to slavery through the government, and the government was already making some moves toward helping the workers and that they would be more fairly treated. Marx could have worked along that line, but he didn't. one of the first things in the manifesto is that the, there must be a total overthrow of all owners of property. In other words, there can be no such thing as somebody owning something. So if it's all in the hands of the state and the state owns everything and you work for the state, well, the state is going to give out all of the goods and services and money, equally, and everybody is going to be happy. I have a quote in the book where he talks about how everyone will like their work and everyone is going to enjoy what they are going to be doing, and if they don't want to work in a certain job, somebody else will cover for them. It's really quite a paradise that he brings about.
Communism's Violent Aims and the Rejection of Traditional Morality and Truth
And of course, without realizing or perhaps he did realize that it was going to bring about the total destruction of everything that existed. I know I'm getting ahead of you, Sandy, but I want to quote the most important quotation in the Communist Manifesto is not the last one, Workers of the world unite. Rather the preceding sentence which says this. The communists do not disguise their aims. They freely admit that their goals can only be achieved by the forcible overthrow of all existing social conditions. Well might, you know, the proletariat. Well might the bourgeoisie, I should say the workers, the owners tremble at the communist revolution. And elsewhere I quote, Marx as saying, let us never apologize for becoming too violent. So that was the answer to his problem. And it, meant the killing of people. It meant collective farms. Stalin loved the word collectivism where everybody bands together and all the farmers plant the same thing. They plant according to the government. And of course what happened there is all their grain was taken from them,
Sandy Rios: millions died, and it happened over and over again. No, you're not getting ahead of me at all. I want us to talk about this. And I always long for people to understand this because it is so twisted. I'm not quite sure what the professors in the universities are saying to paint Marx in such a beautiful way. I did see when I was trying to pull clips, Dr. Lutzer, I saw one person introduce his early life and talk about what a wonderful marriage he had.
Exploring Karl Marx's Early Life, His Obsession with the Devil, and Dark Poetry
And you and I both know that that's absolutely, it's just. In fact, let's go back in time and talk about his early life because I don't think many people never start there and they think he's like this great figure, this great intellect with all these high minded thoughts that's changed the world. But what was he really like? Can you tell us?
Pastor Erwin Lutzer: First of all, he was born into a Jewish family. His father converted to Lutheranism when Carl was 6 years old. And Carl was actually baptized a Lutheran and knew about Martin Luther. I quote him there in my book on Marx and Moody. I talk about what he says about Luther, etc. Just like you can bring about a revolution in the mind of a monk in the same way he was going to bring about a revolution to free people from capitalism. But anyway, at the age of 18, Sandy, his father wrote him a letter in which he said, I perceive that there is in you a demon that is not found in other men. Is the demon heavenly or is it Faustian? Now I know that the Faust that was referring to was not the Faust of the Middle ages who made an agreement with the devil and sold his soul to hell. It is the Enlightenment, Faust, the Faust of the 1700s, that Faust made a deal with the devil. It's a long story that we can't get into. He made a deal with the devil but won in the end. And I can't help but think that that may be something that Marx did. He made a deal with the devil, thinking he would win in the end. And by the way, he was absolutely obsessed with the devil. I have a chapter in which I quote five or six of his poems, all of which are poems that have to do with Satan. See this sword? The prince of darkness sold it to me. And he goes on to say, my soul, once true to God, has been chosen for hell. And he goes on about destroying the whole world, walking about and being equal with a creator. So all that we know is when we look into his mind, all that we can find is real darkness.
Marx's Declaration of Abandoning Faith and His Propensity Toward Satanism
Now, that was before the manifesto was written, so people excuse it, but I think that's the direction his entire life took, especially his marriage. Badly that turned out.
Sandy Rios: Can I interrupt you just a second? because I do want to hear about that, but I want to sit on this just a little bit for a second because you said you read what you read. And he says he confesses that he's giving up his salvation and that he believed in Jesus when he was a younger man in the Lutheran Church. He believed it and wrote some things, as I recall. He wrote some other things too, didn't he, Dr. Lutzer, about faith? And then suddenly now he's declaring that he's left that and his soul is destined for hell. I mean, that's. Talk about a turning point. That's a turning point.
Pastor Erwin Lutzer: Yes, it is. Though I suspect, though I can't prove that even when he said the nice things he did about Jesus, that did not mean that he was a, born again Christian. You know, people can say all kinds of things about Jesus. And you're right, Marx did, because he attended a Lutheran prep school. But, but that did not mean that he ever genuinely was saved. As a matter of fact, I'm not sure about his father and his mother. I think that the general consensus is they turned toward the Lutheran faith because they feared persecution as Jews. Be that as it may, the fact is this, that Carl, from an early on age, began to have this proclivity. You know, it's been a long time since I've used that word, has had this proclivity toward Satanism.
Marx's Dark Poems, His Father's Concerns, and the Dissolution of Family
Sandy Rios: Yeah. you read part of this? I Just these poems just really amaze me. And if you don't mind, I'm going to reread a, little bit more of what you just read. He says, look now, my blood, dark sword shall stab unerringly within my. Thy soul God neither knows nor honors art. The hellish vapors rise and fill my brain till I go mad. And my heart is utterly changed. See this sword? The Prince of darkness sold it to me. For he strikes the time and gives the sign. Ever more boldly I play the dance of death, I must play darkly, I must play lightly until my heart and my violin burst asunder. I mean, and that's as you said, you wrote a bunch, you put a bunch of those. But it just. I want people to understand how really insidious this was. And you started talking about his dad, Dr. Lutzer. But I thought his dad's warnings, even beyond the Faustian thing, like, does he say. Remember he asked him something like, do you ever. I can't remember. Do you ever think good thoughts? Do you ever want to do anything good? Or something like that?
Pastor Erwin Lutzer: Do you ever have natural instincts like others do? And so forth. And his father was concerned that Carl couldn't do a good job of, ministering to Jenny, whom he was in love with. That is, Carl was in love with Jenny and he married her. And his father believed that he could not bring happiness to his wife. His father happened to be right, by the way. Jenny said many times that she wishes she and the children would die and be safely in their graves because it. If you're an atheist, what could be more blessed than to die? And then all of your troubles are over and you, I guess, go into non existence, which is also what Carol, of course, taught his family. And so he has six children, two of whom the oldest two daughters die of, a joint pact of suicide and so forth. It's a messy family, you know. A year after the manifesto was, After the manifesto was written, he was kicked out of his apartment.
Marx's Financial Dependence and His Hypocrisy Regarding Inheritance
By the way, if you read the book. Sandy, how do you like that line from his mother Henrietta? I, wish that Carl would actually earn some capital rather than just writing about it. That's an interesting line from a mother.
Sandy Rios: Yes. And she says that because he keeps taking money from his dad and then when his dad dies from his mother. Right, right.
Sandy Rios: So he's always, he's always.
Pastor Erwin Lutzer: Interesting thing.
Marx's Lifestyle, Lack of Hygiene, and Association with Filth
The manifesto says expressly that no child should have an inheritance given to them because it's unfair. And of course, when his mother Dies, he gets an attorney to make sure that he gets all the money from her. But, you know, there are exceptions, of course, as we know.
Sandy Rios: Yeah, well, he was, a. Basically a leech. I mean, he leased his. Frederick Engels, his good friend, who wrote the, manifesto with him, also gave him money all the time because, as I understand it, Dr. Lutzer, he would not work. Is that fair to say? He just chose not to work?
Pastor Erwin Lutzer: Yeah. Now, to be fair to him, he did write some articles that he got money for. I think he was writing for some newspapers in England. So he may have had a natural gift along that line. But he was, as I mentioned, evicted from his apartment a year after the manifesto because he wasn't paying rent. you know, I hate to go into this into detail, but he apparently had virtually no hygiene. He smoked a lot, he drank a lot. And, he was messy, let's just say.
Sandy Rios: Well, I'm going to fill in the blanks because I think he had boils all over his body. He was. He wouldn't bathe. He wasn't clean. And, I mean, I think that's part of the story. Which, honestly, Dr. Lutzer, when you think of people that are into, Satanism, it seems like cleanliness. I know there's no verse. I need to be very clear. There's no verse that says cleanliness is next to godliness, in spite of what my mother taught me. But, it does seem that when you get far from God, filth, kind of filth goes along with that. I don't know why. I don't know why that would be.
Pastor Erwin Lutzer: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
The Unpleasant Neighbor and the Abolition of Family in Marxist Ideology
And you, think, for example, even in the NewSong Testament, of the man who was in the graves, you know, in the graveyard. Living in a graveyard. I'm not saying exactly that Marx, was living in a graveyard. Obviously, he did have an apartment, but he, was not the kind of neighbor that you would have wanted, let's put it that way.
Sandy Rios: So, I. We brought up his wife, and I mentioned that video, that talked about what a great marriage they had. But how did she die? I thought she died. Kind of a sad ending too, but I could be wrong about that.
Pastor Erwin Lutzer: Yes. Now, this article that you say you read, you mean they had a wonderful marriage?
Sandy Rios: Yeah, it was a video talked about Marxist. I didn't obviously play that video because I knew it wasn't true. But, But this is the kind of stuff that's said about him.
Communism's View on Marriage, Children, and the Abolition of Oppression
Pastor Erwin Lutzer: She. She frequently mentioned that she wishes she would die with his kids. And Marx said He did not blame her for saying that. So. And of course, in the manifesto, it clearly says that the family has to be abolished. There should be no such thing, because marriage is an economic relationship. And therefore, people get married only. The only reason a wife stays with her husband is for economic reasons. And so once the economics is moved into the hands of the state, she's married. She is free, I should say to be married or unmarried however she wishes. And, Engels wrote a book about the family, and he said that Marx agreed with the book. And in it he says that a child should be taken from its mother as soon as it is able to exist without her. He doesn't give an age, but that's what he says. And of course, why the state has to educate the child. Parents, cannot be, trusted to educate their own children. After all, parents oppress their children. Men, oppress their wives. They take them to church. God is the ultimate oppressor. So we have to get rid of God, because oppression is the only reason you do evil.
The Outcomes of Communism in Practice: State-Raised Children and the Destruction of Identity
If you weren't oppressed, you would not do any evil at all. And so what you have to do is get rid of all oppression. And suddenly all of this goodness is going to burst out of people. And, we're going to be able to live in a whole different world.
Sandy Rios: Well, then, as we think about the way it's played out in countries, and we don't have to skip to this, but the Soviet Union, I suppose, was the first country that really implemented Marxism. And in regard to the children, you know, the children were taken from their mothers, and the mothers had to go out and. Well, no, they had the privilege of going out and working just like the men, because, you know, equality. So the babies were raised by state nurseries. And then there was a lot of madness. A lot of that did not work out well. But that's what they did because of. It was in the manifesto. And, so anyway, so to varying degrees, all these countries tried these things. and I remember, too. I'm sorry, Dr. Lutzer, I'm talking a bit too much, but I want to. You remember the Weather Underground? They were communists. Bernadine Dorn, Bill Ayers, in Chicago, you know, our Hometown, in the 60s, 70s and 80s, they were totally Marxists, wanted the complete destruction of the United States. And they did this thing called smash monogamy, where they didn't have no two people were allowed to have sex in their group. They had group sex. And sometimes they would have it all together. They Called it smash monogamy. These are the things that came out of Marx. I just, So I don't know how it played out.
Communism's Abolition of Truth, Morality, and Societal Structures
Pastor Erwin Lutzer: Of course, once you have no God, as Marx indicated, there's another quote in the, manifesto that comes to my mind. Communism abolishes all eternal truths. It abolishes all religion and all morality and will not even set them on a different foundation. I had to read that several times. What it meant was that we will not even seek to establish all truth and all morality on a different basis because it is constantly in flux. So parents send their kids to university today, and then the kid comes back and the parent says, oh, our children think differently now than they used to. They think differently than we raised them. Yes, they sure do. Why? Truth, whatever that is, is socially constructed. And so truth now, since it has no stability and no foundation, truth ends up being whatever I feel should be true. And. And it is constantly in flux. So you can even have your truth and I can have mine, which is of course insanity, but nonetheless, that's the way things are going in our university today. And I say thanks to Carl Merckx, thanks also to other writers and those who would agree with him in varying degrees. And, so that's where we're at.
Sandy Rios: Dr. Lucy, you mentioned a quote from the, manifesto about, overturning all existing social. What structure. Social. I don't remember what the word was.
Pastor Erwin Lutzer: Conditions.
Sandy Rios: Conditions. Well, I want to just point out, and I try to explain this to people too, is this means everything, everything you are accustomed to must be destroyed because that gives you a loyalty, a belonging in a structured group. And they want you to only be loyal to the state only. And so I remember.
The Marxist Goal: To Destroy All Loyalties Except to the State
I'll just give this one example. you know, men love football, NFL. And I told Bruce once, a long time ago, I said, bruce, they're going to go after the NFL. That's too much of a brotherhood for men, and it's too strong and it's too powerful, and they're going to have to break that up. And then suddenly all this trouble started, you know, with the Kaepernick. They use different devices. They. I don't know, you know. Well, anyway, I'll finish my sentence. They use all these different way of destroying, but they. They have managed, really. I don't think they've destroyed the NFL yet, but boy, they have destroyed the.
Pastor Erwin Lutzer: The.
Sandy Rios: The original, brotherhood of it. And it's become a, It's caused a lot of strife and unhappiness. Maybe it's been Recovered, I don't know. But they want everything. Your family, your church attendance, your love of God, your everything that gives you an identity to be taken out from m under you, so that all you love is the state.
Pastor Erwin Lutzer: So that's right.
Comparing Fascism and Communism: State Control and Nationalism vs. Class Struggle
And the state. The state will give you your daily bread. And with reference to the state, may I quote the words of Mussolini, who was actually a fascist, not a communist. And there is a difference. But nonetheless, the communists totally agree with Mussolini when he said everything within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state. So your loyalty should be only to the state. And, any other loyalty is competition, and the state actually is God walking on earth.
Sandy Rios: can you, just because you said it, give us a clear definition of the difference between fascism and communism?
Pastor Erwin Lutzer: Fascism is very nationalistic. Hitler, you know, Germany above all. And, of course Italy above all. It is Italy. Communism pays no attention to that. Communism says everything is based on class. And where you are in the economic spectrum. Are you a worker? Well, then of course you're a proletariat. Are you an owner of something, you own something and therefore you may employ, owners. That's the distinction. It's the owner based people versus the worker. And so that's the distinction. It is not based on nationalism per se.
Sandy Rios: And that's why the communists and the Nazis. The Nazis hated the communists. There was that much. People sometimes get that confused, you know. Yeah. All right. So, why do you think, honestly, Dr. Lutzer, why is Marxism such a powerful force? I think I know, but I want to know what you think.
Why Marxism Appeals: Promises vs. Results, Wealth Creation, and Distribution of Misery
Pastor Erwin Lutzer: Oh, Sandy, the reason that, democratic socialism is gaining steam here in the United States. Aren't you glad that I'm on with you today? I'm laughing because I can explain it in a single sentence. People judge it by its promises, not its results. I mean, who wouldn't want free health care, free, child care, free bus transportation, free, who knows? Free rent, free this, free this. And so. That sounds so good. Why not? Have you ever noticed this about the democratic socialists? They're always talking about how to, make sure that you divide, the money. They're always talking about dividing money. They never talk about earning money or making money. So what you do is you have to recognize they don't know how to make money. As a matter of fact, they don't really believe in making money because there's a certain amount of money in the world, and you can never increase that in a communist world. And so if the United States is wealthy, it's because it's wealthy on the backs of poor countries. We are wealthy because we made other countries poor. So that's the philosophy. So if you see a rich man, criticize him and vilify him because he became rich on the backs of the poor. Now that isn't true. You take a very, very wealthy man. He's actually invested his money. If I might, mention someone, Elon Musk, I believe, I think that he has employed nearly three quarters of a million people. He's provided employment, but that all is skipped over. And he has said that. It is said that if you have that much money, you stole it, you didn't earn it. Well, that of course, becomes very complicated. But what we need to do is to understand that in the modern Marxist, democratic socialist world, in that world, any wealth that you attain is actually attained on the backs of someone else. So everybody is to be poor. If I might get to the quote of, Winston, Churchill. Churchill said this. He said, the great vice of capitalism is the unequal distribution of blessings. But the great virtue, socialism, is the equal distribution of misery. So as long as everybody's alike, it's okay if everybody is poor, just as long as we are all poor together.
Sandy Rios: Wow, those are great quotes.
The Myth of Finite Wealth and the Historical Failure of Communism
And as you were talking about wealth, I just want to make this clear because I had to learn this. Wealth is not finite. I mean, it's like we don't have just X number of dollars or bars of gold or whatever in this world. It grows. Wealth is a thing that grows. Like planting a seed. It grows. There are no limits to how much wealth can be developed around the world. There really aren't. So it's absolutely wrong to think that it's static. And so the people that have wealth have it because the people that don't, they took it from the people that don't because there's only a finite amount of wealth. That's just not true. But, and you know, Dr. Lutzer, every country that communism has been tried in has utterly failed. I know that you've traveled extensively. You and Rebecca as well. I mean, what. What have you seen? I think I know you guys were in Russia before. I was, I think in the 80s, right?
Pastor Erwin Lutzer: Yes.
Observations from Russia: Economic Inefficiency, Lack of Innovation, and Bureaucracy
Mm
Sandy Rios: So.
Pastor Erwin Lutzer: Well, in those days, we were told that doctors in a hospital were not being paid much more than taxi drivers. Obviously, taxi drivers. That was a coveted job because they picked up Americans and they, they would get American money even though they weren't supp. But they did, of course. And then, so the whole Idea was this, that. I remember my interpreter saying that there was a factory in Russia that made shoes that no one could wear because the contour was on the wrong side. Okay? But they kept making them. They piled them high in their warehouses. Why? Because in communism, you get paid the same amount of money, whether you make something that somebody needs or somebody. Something that somebody doesn't need and can't use. Because, after all, it's not based on competition, saving money, or earning money as such. It's just, you get your check once you're. It's like the cast system. Once you're in a, certain level, that's where you stay and you pick up your check and you be happy with it. Don't try to get ahead for your family, because if you do that, you're going to have to employ capitalistic means.
Sandy Rios: You know, I was just thinking, maybe people could understand it this way. We know bureaucracy is just infuriating. It means a lot of people involved in one thing. You need to know, or you got. You call, you go to in, and you. You try to make a reservation at an airline. It has to go through all these channels, and you keep getting connected and connected. And. And in government, when you're trying to do Social Security or something else, if it goes through all these levels and you can't get an answer because there are so many people involved in this thing that involves you. That's bureaucracy. So, Dr. Lutzer, just think if the government is in charge of everything, just think how worthless, how far removed the bureaucrats are from the needs of real people. You know, they can't even, they can't take care of those details. And how could they even care about it? Because they're too far removed from the people. That's why we have a system of government where local governments are involved in the local things. But, that's just a practical reason why communism doesn't work. But I think about what I saw in Russia was like, you know, all the apartments were the same, and they all smelled like urine. The elevators were all broken down. The windows were broken. There was no repair. People would sit around drunk in the parks.
Personal Experiences of Oppression in Russia and North Korea: The Absence of Freedom and God
And that's just a tiny bit of what I saw, Dr. Lutzer. And, in North Korea, I saw abject fear, abject fear. I experienced it with them. And I won't go into that. So, I mean, I'll stop because, you know, you have your own stories. It doesn't work.
Pastor Erwin Lutzer: did you notice that, there was no Calvary Chapel in North Korea? Or no First Baptist Church or no Catholic church. You know, this leads to a different, a different topic which we can't get into today because our time is somewhat limited. But actually, there are those who believe that government isn't important. They think no matter what government comes to the United States, we'll always be. Be able to worship and so forth. Well, excuse me. As Frank Turek frequently says, good government cannot save us, but bad government can shut us down. In the book that we're talking about that I wrote, I had a chapter on Albania, for example, where I preached twice. And, Albania has never been able to overcome communism. I mean, they threw it off and they have elections, but communism did so much damage. Albania cannot really recover. And then, of course, you have a lot of corruption in the midst of this. And speaking of bureaucracy, Sandy, of course you have an awful lot of corruption. Because, you see, in a capitalistic society, you paid attention whether or not people are trying to pilfer from your business because you want to survive, you want to be a success, but the government doesn't have to because it has a lot of money, and it gives out the money, without necessarily demanding anything. Enough latitude so that you can have the kind of corruption that we hear about in the news from day to day.
Sandy Rios: And the other thing that goes along with it, Dr. Lutzer, is this incredible, creepy, dangerous, frightening, strangling. Hold on, people. I mentioned North Korea. That's Russia was the same with. Or even in East Germany, the Stasi. They watched the people. They knew everything they were doing. in China, they watched the birth of children. And if you had more than one baby, they would force you to kill your other children. They would watch your periods and check them each month. You know, they were watchers. And, And when I was in Russia, I bet this happened to you too. I had. When I'd leave my hotel room, I had to, turn in my passport. Or I had to. Maybe it was. I had to leave my passport overnight. I can't recall. But they watched every time we left the room. There were cameras in the. I don't know about cameras, but there were microphones in the rooms. There's no privacy. There's no free choice. There's no freedom. There's no freedom in these countries. And, Of course, no God. Of course, no God.
The Naivete of Ignoring History and the Enduring Power of Communism
Well, Dr. Lutzer, we talk.
Pastor Erwin Lutzer: People have no idea. They have no idea. And I think the reason that. If I might humbly say that many people are so naive, is they don't understand history they don't understand how ideas have worked themselves out and where the end comes. So, and here's another thing. When people are in desperation, and my interpreter reminded me of this when I was in Russia in the 80s. When people are in desperation, they oftentimes will opt for something far worse than they have, but they won't know it. He said that there were those who, even in his own family who said, yes, you know, the communists are evil, The Bolsheviks under Lenin are evil. But think of what the czars are doing. They are not paying attention to our needs. They are squandering money on themselves. And so you become angry and you end up choosing something that's worse than what you have. And certainly we as a nation need to learn that lesson.
Sandy Rios: You know, I guess, that is really. You. You came up to the brink of it. But could you say more, Dr. Lutzer, about what you think we're facing right now in terms of communism?
Pastor Erwin Lutzer: Well, in terms of communism, of course, everyone knows that it's in the news because you have so many people who are opting for, socialism. And then, of course you have it also with Islam, which should not surprise anyone, because years ago, 10 years ago, I wrote about this, that there was a relationship between Islam and liberalism.
The Incremental Approach of Marxism and the Importance of Voting
They were willing to put up with each other until Christianity and capitalism would be destroyed. And, this, of course, by the way, in the book, I also have a chapter on how Marxism came to America and how churches were supposed to be used to help bring it about incrementally. But the point is this, that there are people there, people today, some of whom I have no doubt have the best of intentions, have no idea where all this is going to lead. So after November, we will know. But that isn't the end. No matter which way it goes in November, it's not the end. People have to understand incrementalism, where you make some gains and where you're allowed to say certain things like, you know, that America, deserved 9, 11, or whatever. You're allowed to do that. Maybe people will understand that's not right. But that's okay. It's a step along a certain direction. And, So, Sandy, I don't want to end, though, on a very pessimistic note. I want to end with joy and with anticipation because even though I'm pessimistic regarding the world, I am very optimistic about the fact that God rules.
Sandy Rios: I am too, by the way.
Comparing the Impact of Marx and Moody: Evangelism vs. Revolutionary Ideology
I am too, by the way. And, I think it would be, from your Perspective. And again, the book is called Marx and Moody. And, Greg Quigle, professor, ah, of history, Church history, wrote the part about Dwight, L. Moody, which is also excellent, but we're not really touching on that too much. But, how would you compare the power with which Moody preached and changed the world and the power with which Marx wrote and, reached the world? how would you just compare those two?
Pastor Erwin Lutzer: Well, first of all, Moody preached this three Rs. Number one, we are ruined by sin. That immediately cuts cross grained with Marxism because Marx doesn't believe that we are sinners. It's just that we become sinners because of oppression. Moody says there is sin within you and only God can rescue us. That's why the second R is redeemed by the blood of Christ and the third is regenerated by the Holy Spirit. But Sandy, people who read the book that we're talking about, Marx and Moody, they will be surprised at how Moody also gave his life for people's social conditions. I mean, he began orphanages. He helped begin, of course, the ministry of Moody church, Moody Church, 1864. It was begun with the youth and the, children in Chicago. He provided centers here in Chicago and also learned how to do this in London with George Mueller and so forth for poor people to come and get food. At one time, Moody was taking care of 800 people, helping them to be able to feed their families and so forth. Of course, he enlisted a lot of other people and a lot of other ministries. He was good at that. But he did more for, for people than Karl Marx, of course, ever did. in fact, Marx, as far as I know, did nothing really for anyone else except that he did a lot of writing. And we are dealing with the results right now. So Moody is a great example of how you can do evangelism, which was his priority, but also be meeting the physical needs of people and their social needs. A marvelous example.
The Eternal Clash: Marx's Devilish Intentions vs. Moody's Divine Inspiration
And at the end of the book, I take them to the cemetery of both Marx and Moody and his wife and talk about their destinies and their legacies.
Sandy Rios: It does seem like, in fact it is the classic. You know, Marx is so open about his devilish, intentions about his inspiration from the devil himself. And Moody is of course so open about his inspiration from the King of Kings, Lord of Lords, the, you know, the creator of the universe. And it is like the, it is the everlasting and eternal clash between God and the devil. It just seems like this is why, you know, it has, Marxism has so much power, but we know who wins, Dr. Lutzer. We know who wins. And so with that, you know, we. We should bring this to a close, I think. the move.
Final Thoughts on Eternity, Personal Choice, and Choosing Life in Christ
The book again is called Marx and Moody. Two contemporaries, two Gospels, two tombstones, one choice. And the author is Dr. Erwin Lutzer, along with Professor Quigle. Dr. Ah, Lutzer. Any final thoughts?
Pastor Erwin Lutzer: No. The only final thought is that we have to live as if we're going to, die. And with that in mind, it's eternity that really matters. So the battle is eternal. The battle has to do with the spirit world. you know, you can't just convince people that they are wrong even when they clearly are, at least from our standpoint. What we have to do is to pray and seek God because we've wandered a long way from where we came as a nation and oftentimes as churches and as individuals.
Sandy Rios: So it's personal. It's not just corporate. It's not just the whole world and Marxism moving. It's personal to each of us. This. What are you going to do with this information? Who are you going to believe? Who are you going to embrace? And I think that we, we've made that decision, Dr. Lutzer. And I know we would encourage people to choose life. Choose life and not death. Well, thank you so much.
Pastor Erwin Lutzer: Yes.
The Book 'Marx and Moody' by Dr. Erwin Lutzer Available on Amazon
And if they've never accepted Christ, even though we talked mostly about Marx, remember, Jesus is the only qualified person to save us from our sins.
Sandy Rios: Amen and amen. M. And it isn't Marx, and it is certainly isn't the devil because he doesn't want to save you from your sins. Dr.
Sandy Rios: Lutzer, thank you. I always enjoy talking to you and thank you for this offering for the world and I. Now, can they get it anywhere, this book, Marx and Moody?
Pastor Erwin Lutzer: Yes, they can go to Amazon, for example. Marks and Moody.
Sandy Rios: Okay, very Good. All right, Dr. Erwin Lutzer, go ahead. No, what else?
Pastor Erwin Lutzer: Ah, I was going to say any other place as well. A number of bookstores are carrying it and so forth, but probably today, Mark's and Moody would be the best place.
Sandy Rios: Okay. All right. On Amazon.
Pastor Erwin Lutzer: All right.
Sandy Rios: Well, Dr. Lutzer, thank you for your time and thank you for this offering for the world in this important time in our history. All right, Sandy rios on Sandy Rios 24 7. This is Sandy Rios 247 on American Family Radio.
Planned Parenthood's Abortion Statistics and the Effectiveness of Preborn Ultrasounds
Sandy Rios: Abortions performed by Planned Parenthood were among the top leading causes of death in America, revealing the terrifying truth of the left's anti life agenda according to Planned Parenthood's 2022, 23 annual report. Abortions performed by the organization accounted for the time. Top four leading causes of death. Think about that. Paid for by our tax dollars. And honestly, this freight train is going down the track so fast and so powerfully. It's really hard. It's going to be hard for us to stop this. And I think one of the best ways I've said before, I'll say again, is preborn. Preborn who was not part of the government, not part of the public debate or campaign, but an organization that's simply providing ultrasounds for moms who are pregnant and doubting whether they should carry the baby to allow them to see their baby through ultrasound. It's an amazing process and it actually works. when the moms see their babies, I think it doubles the chance that they will not take the life of their baby. You know, you can't beat those odds. If you'd like to help, $28 pays for one ultrasound, just one. And you can send however much you can afford, go to preborn.com sandy that's preborn.com sandy the Sandy Rios 24. 7 podcast are available at afr.net back to Sandy Rios 24. 7 on American Family Radio.
The Transformative Power of Christ's Love and the Importance of Voting Against Marxism
Sandy Rios: Can you imagine a man with no theological training, little education, who started out selling shoes, but ended up leading over half a million people to Christ? This isn't an exaggeration or a legend. It's the true story of Dwight Moody. An ordinary man completely surrendered into God's hands. He didn't preach using big, complicated words. He wasn't after fame. But wherever he went, crowds were moved. Thousands gave their lives to Jesus and revival followed. Today you're going to meet the man who set hearts on fire without a golden pulpit, without status, without fame, but with an unshakable faith.
Sandy Rios: All right, that's part of, a video just, describing Dwight L. Moody. And you know, really it's the love of Christ. It's not the, the sword, truly, it's not the ballot box, but it is the love of Christ that transforms hearts and transforms countries. You know, in Russia, where I mentioned being way back, was, the underground church who were just stalwart. I remember, interviewing a KGB agent, and it at Radio Moscow. And if you're not old enough to know what that means, that was like the, the innards, the very innards, the heart of the, the, the center of the beast. And I talked to the English language translator. They were broadcasting into all of the world. Marxism, in various language. And I remember hearing the, the Woman who had that really silky, beautiful voice, speaking in perfect English, delivering propaganda. I'll so seductive. I'll never forget that. But the English. The guy in charge of English language programming was a KGB agent named Yuri Minayev. And I spent some time interviewing him, a long time, actually. And, we sat at a wooden table on a parquet, wooden floor with again, wooden chairs. And I remember asking him, he had told me that he had a grandmother. I think it was his grandmother who was involved in the underground church. And they had been doing all of these raids. The KGB had been raiding these churches, arresting these older women in their babushkas. And, and I said to him, I said, yuri, because he handed me. He had handed me a cross that belonged to his grandmother. Here he is, a KGB agent. And I said to him, I said, yuri, didn't, it bother you that you're going into these churches and raiding them and you know, your grandmother is, is there? And he goes, you hear it on the tape, and he moves his chair out. You hear the wood of the chair going along the parquet floor. And he said, it affected me very much. And I have that on tape. The power of the gospel. His helpless grandmother in her little scarf, the babushka, being arrested and affected him very much. This hard Marxist. This is the power of the gospel. The humility of Jesus, who, God, who humbled himself before us. That humility and that love that comes from the humility and the love he had for us for giving his son is the power. It's the power that changes everything. And so, I hope that we've said enough things today that will give you some food for thought. We certainly have to be diligent. And again, I beg you to vote in this election against the Marxists, because they have nothing good in mind for us. Nothing whatsoever. And you will so forever regret it if you don't vote. And I mean even vote for people you don't like, but you're voting against the wickedness that is running.
Concluding Remarks on 'Marx and Moody' and the Ministry of Preborn
Okay, so the book is called Marx and Moody. Two contemporaries, two Gospels, two tombstones. One choice, by Dr. Irwin Lutzer and Greg William Quigle. Well, I want to thank you for listening. And I want to remind you that PreBorn is our sponsor. We could not do these things without their help. They are in the business of saving the lives of babies very effectively by showing those moms who are uncertain, you know, a 4D ultrasound of their little one. And it's very, very effective. A redemptive, beautiful way of saving lives. And that means the moms, too, because they also talk about the gospel of Jesus Christ, forgiveness. A Ah, brand new start. so the girls also hear about that. So it's, a it's a wonderfully redemptive organization. That's why I love them and that's why they support my show. Freeboard.com Sandy It's $28 for one ultrasound. Preborn.com Sandy well, thank you so much for listening to today's edition of Sandy Rios. 24. It.
Examining Karl Marx's Ideals and the Misunderstandings Surrounding Marxism
Paul Kengor: Point three in the Communist Manifesto calls for abolition of all right of inheritance. What hypocrisy. Marx and Engels got all their money through inheritance. Most students of most universities who take a course on Marxism are going to get a pro Marx perspective. People say, well, the Communist Manifesto is a pretty good book.
Paul Kengor: I'm like, well, have you read it? I think what's most commonly misunderstood about Marxism is the idea that it's about sharing and helping your fellow man. I mean, it's not that at all. The word love is hardly mentioned at all in the communist manifest. And when it is, it has nothing to do with loving your neighbor. People who take this course here, they're going to get the actual truth.
The Destructive Nature of Communism and Its Call for Total Societal Overthrow
Communism abolishes eternal truths. It abolishes all religion and all morality. When you encounter an ideology that evil and that destructive, it is the most colossal case of political carnage in history. I feel compelled to share that with other people. This guy is no tinkerer. This is a guy who wants to take it all down. Is an ideology and a man thinking of pure destruction
Dr. Paul Kinginger Discusses 'The Devil and Karl Marx' and the Influence on Today's Youth
all.
Sandy Rios: Ah, right. Sandy Rios with you. Well, that was the voice of Dr. Paul Kinger, who's been with me many times. And he recently, in the last few years, wrote a book called the Devil and Karl Marx, which was remarkable. But isn't it interesting? Our kids are marching in the streets shouting the principles of Karl Marx, actually saying these things, about, equity and all of the things that come out of Marxists demolishing the family. some of them you may not even know about. But our young people graduating from our universities are just brainwashed with this rot. And so today we're going to have a discussion about, yes, I prejudiced you because I have very strong feelings about this. I personally lived in Berlin, Germany, during the height of the Cold War. I saw the oppression of the East German people. I have visited North Korea. I was there right before 9 11, the day before. I saw the oppression of those people. I had been in the Soviet Union before it was, before it broke up and the communist lock on the Soviet Union was there. I saw the oppression of those people. So I know a little bit about this. I've tasted it, touched it and breathed it. And so it's been a passion of mine for the last many decades to bring the truth about communism to everyone that I talk to. So today I have a special guest, Dr. Erwin Lutzer, who's written a book, a new book, and this is a little different twist on this. It's called Marx and Moody. Now, if you don't know who Dwight L. Moody is, we're going to talk about that and explain why the pairing of those two. And we'll have a great discussion on this topic today. But first, well, finally we have some good news.
Preborn Ministry's Success in Saving Babies and Offering Hope to Pregnant Mothers
Would you like some good news? Over 50,000 babies have been saved and more than 5,100 commitments to Christ through the ministry preborn this year alone has happened, and it's happened because of you. And I have a personal message from Dan Steiner, who's the president of preborn, and this is what he wants to say to you. Because of you, we can invite mothers considering abortion into a preborn network clinic to meet their baby. And when she has that close encounter of the best kind in her WOMB, she is 80% more likely to choose life. So, my friends and listeners of so many years, you can help me make that first encounter possible for the next mom Across America, Preborn network clinics are putting the gospel into action surrounding moms with hope and love and providing free life saving ultrasounds. Will you join PreBorn and Sandy Rios, 24. Seven, as we help rescue 50,000 more babies lives, you know, it's just $28. You can sponsor an ultrasound and help save a baby's life. Just go to preborn.com sandy that's preborn.com sandy.
Introduction to Dr. Erwin Lutzer and the Book 'Marx and Moody'
And make your most generous donation. All right, take out your pen and paper, boys and girls. It's time to study, go to school. And we'll do it with the master teacher, Dr. Erwin Lutzer. On today's edition of Sandy Rios, 24 7, from American Family Radio, Sandy Rios. We are not called to be nice. We are often called to be confrontational. And here with me in D.C. is Fox News contributor Sandy Rios. I think the most important thing we need to demonstrate to our children is genuineness, that we actually believe what we say. We believe. Longtime Fox News contributor Sandy Rios.
Sandy Rios: Thanks very much for being with us. Seek justice. Not social justice, but God's justice. What's right and what's wrong. Sandy Rios is with the American Family Association, a pro life radio talk show host.
Sandy Rios: We've got to say this is the line. Life is sacred. Director of governmental affairs for the American Family Association. Step up, speak up, say something, do something. All right, Sandy Rios with you on Sandy Rios, 24 7, and it's my privilege to introduce and enjoy talking to my good friend Dr. Erwin Lutzer. Dr. Lutzer is a, pastor emeritus of the Moody Church in Chicago, where he served as the senior pastor for 36 years. Dr. Lutzer earned his B. Bachelor in theology from Winnipeg Bible College and theology master from Dallas Theological Seminary and a master's in philosophy, which is always interesting to me, which I'm sure helps him take on these big characters of history. From, Loyola University and an honorary lld that's, from Simon Greenleaf School of Law. So, that's Dr. Irwin Lutzer. He is a part. There's a. A team of. There's, two writers to this book. It's Marx and Moody. Two contemporaries, two Gospels, two tombstones, and one choice. And with that, I welcome Dr. Lutzer. Good morning, and thanks for joining us.
Pastor Erwin Lutzer: I'm so glad that I can be with you.
The Origins of 'Marx and Moody': Comparing Marx and D.L. Moody as Contemporaries
Sandy and I want to talk about how this book came about, and you and I both know it is important. I hope that those who listen understand the extent of its importance, especially in America today.
Sandy Rios: Yes. You know, before we jump into the content of Marx, because your part of this book was Karl Marx and Greg, Quigle's part was Dwight L. Moody. Can you give us, just a snapshot before we jump into Marx here of the contrast between Marx and Moody, and give us also a snapshot into who in the world was Dwydell Moody.
Pastor Erwin Lutzer: All right, let me. Let me tell you how the book came about. Just over a year ago, I was going to give a lecture at the tomb of Karl Marx, which I did. But while I was in London, which, was just over a year ago, I gave a lecture at the tomb of Karl Marx in London. He's buried in a cemetery there. And as I was preparing the lecture, it dawned on me he was a contemporary of D.L. moody. Who was D.L. moody? Well, if people know of Billy Graham. Well, he was. That is to say, Moody was the Billy Graham of the 1800s. He came to Chicago, born in poverty, accepted Christ as savior, began Moody Church and Moody Bible Institute, and, that is in the 1800s. And, preached to large crowds. Preached to large crowds in England. Even 20,000 a night without a microphone, if you can imagine that. And attending one of the services is Frederick Engels, who helped write the Communist Manifesto. So that's their connection. They were contemporaries for 46 years. They certainly knew of each other. As a matter of fact, Marx, you know, spoke about, I should say that Engels is the one who spoke mostly about Moody and his associate Sankey. And, also blamed Moody and Sankey for the fact that communism did not come to England. He said it's because of revivalists such as Moody and Sankey and the Dangerous aid of the Salvation Army. Bottom line, Engels was saying the reason that communism didn't come to England is because it just had roots that were too deeply Christian. There weren't enough people who were willing to steal and to overthrow and to destroy and to kill to bring about a revolution. So that was the analysis that was made. And Moody knew fully about communism. He talked about it when he was here in America and said these words that if we don't spread the gospel, the leaven of communism is going to come to America and bring about a great destruction. Actually, he talked about it, in terms of a great revolution the likes of which America has never seen.
Analyzing Marx's Motivation and Communism's Call for Total Overthrow of Property
Sandy Rios: You know, Dr. Lutzer, when I think about communism, you know, you always wonder about the strange force that it is. But I suspect that part of its power is that it's rooted in some truth. So can you just kind of give us an idea from your perspective, why Marx was so, well, before we get into who he really was, why he was so concerned about the poor, allegedly, and what was the catalyst for that?
Pastor Erwin Lutzer: Well, there's no doubt that he was writing against great evils that were taking place in England and America. You know, during the Industrial Revolution, you had the rise of factories and factories, needed workers, and workers would come there to the factories and work for next to nothing. And if they got fired or if they got sick, there was no fallback, plan for them. And so he was writing against legitimate abuses. But as I point out in the book, he had a different way he could have gone, especially in England. Wilberforce had already put an end to slavery through the government, and the government was already making some moves toward helping the workers and that they would be more fairly treated. Marx could have worked along that line, but he didn't. one of the first things in the manifesto is that the, there must be a total overthrow of all owners of property. In other words, there can be no such thing as somebody owning something. So if it's all in the hands of the state and the state owns everything and you work for the state, well, the state is going to give out all of the goods and services and money, equally, and everybody is going to be happy. I have a quote in the book where he talks about how everyone will like their work and everyone is going to enjoy what they are going to be doing, and if they don't want to work in a certain job, somebody else will cover for them. It's really quite a paradise that he brings about.
Communism's Violent Aims and the Rejection of Traditional Morality and Truth
And of course, without realizing or perhaps he did realize that it was going to bring about the total destruction of everything that existed. I know I'm getting ahead of you, Sandy, but I want to quote the most important quotation in the Communist Manifesto is not the last one, Workers of the world unite. Rather the preceding sentence which says this. The communists do not disguise their aims. They freely admit that their goals can only be achieved by the forcible overthrow of all existing social conditions. Well might, you know, the proletariat. Well might the bourgeoisie, I should say the workers, the owners tremble at the communist revolution. And elsewhere I quote, Marx as saying, let us never apologize for becoming too violent. So that was the answer to his problem. And it, meant the killing of people. It meant collective farms. Stalin loved the word collectivism where everybody bands together and all the farmers plant the same thing. They plant according to the government. And of course what happened there is all their grain was taken from them,
Sandy Rios: millions died, and it happened over and over again. No, you're not getting ahead of me at all. I want us to talk about this. And I always long for people to understand this because it is so twisted. I'm not quite sure what the professors in the universities are saying to paint Marx in such a beautiful way. I did see when I was trying to pull clips, Dr. Lutzer, I saw one person introduce his early life and talk about what a wonderful marriage he had.
Exploring Karl Marx's Early Life, His Obsession with the Devil, and Dark Poetry
And you and I both know that that's absolutely, it's just. In fact, let's go back in time and talk about his early life because I don't think many people never start there and they think he's like this great figure, this great intellect with all these high minded thoughts that's changed the world. But what was he really like? Can you tell us?
Pastor Erwin Lutzer: First of all, he was born into a Jewish family. His father converted to Lutheranism when Carl was 6 years old. And Carl was actually baptized a Lutheran and knew about Martin Luther. I quote him there in my book on Marx and Moody. I talk about what he says about Luther, etc. Just like you can bring about a revolution in the mind of a monk in the same way he was going to bring about a revolution to free people from capitalism. But anyway, at the age of 18, Sandy, his father wrote him a letter in which he said, I perceive that there is in you a demon that is not found in other men. Is the demon heavenly or is it Faustian? Now I know that the Faust that was referring to was not the Faust of the Middle ages who made an agreement with the devil and sold his soul to hell. It is the Enlightenment, Faust, the Faust of the 1700s, that Faust made a deal with the devil. It's a long story that we can't get into. He made a deal with the devil but won in the end. And I can't help but think that that may be something that Marx did. He made a deal with the devil, thinking he would win in the end. And by the way, he was absolutely obsessed with the devil. I have a chapter in which I quote five or six of his poems, all of which are poems that have to do with Satan. See this sword? The prince of darkness sold it to me. And he goes on to say, my soul, once true to God, has been chosen for hell. And he goes on about destroying the whole world, walking about and being equal with a creator. So all that we know is when we look into his mind, all that we can find is real darkness.
Marx's Declaration of Abandoning Faith and His Propensity Toward Satanism
Now, that was before the manifesto was written, so people excuse it, but I think that's the direction his entire life took, especially his marriage. Badly that turned out.
Sandy Rios: Can I interrupt you just a second? because I do want to hear about that, but I want to sit on this just a little bit for a second because you said you read what you read. And he says he confesses that he's giving up his salvation and that he believed in Jesus when he was a younger man in the Lutheran Church. He believed it and wrote some things, as I recall. He wrote some other things too, didn't he, Dr. Lutzer, about faith? And then suddenly now he's declaring that he's left that and his soul is destined for hell. I mean, that's. Talk about a turning point. That's a turning point.
Pastor Erwin Lutzer: Yes, it is. Though I suspect, though I can't prove that even when he said the nice things he did about Jesus, that did not mean that he was a, born again Christian. You know, people can say all kinds of things about Jesus. And you're right, Marx did, because he attended a Lutheran prep school. But, but that did not mean that he ever genuinely was saved. As a matter of fact, I'm not sure about his father and his mother. I think that the general consensus is they turned toward the Lutheran faith because they feared persecution as Jews. Be that as it may, the fact is this, that Carl, from an early on age, began to have this proclivity. You know, it's been a long time since I've used that word, has had this proclivity toward Satanism.
Marx's Dark Poems, His Father's Concerns, and the Dissolution of Family
Sandy Rios: Yeah. you read part of this? I Just these poems just really amaze me. And if you don't mind, I'm going to reread a, little bit more of what you just read. He says, look now, my blood, dark sword shall stab unerringly within my. Thy soul God neither knows nor honors art. The hellish vapors rise and fill my brain till I go mad. And my heart is utterly changed. See this sword? The Prince of darkness sold it to me. For he strikes the time and gives the sign. Ever more boldly I play the dance of death, I must play darkly, I must play lightly until my heart and my violin burst asunder. I mean, and that's as you said, you wrote a bunch, you put a bunch of those. But it just. I want people to understand how really insidious this was. And you started talking about his dad, Dr. Lutzer. But I thought his dad's warnings, even beyond the Faustian thing, like, does he say. Remember he asked him something like, do you ever. I can't remember. Do you ever think good thoughts? Do you ever want to do anything good? Or something like that?
Pastor Erwin Lutzer: Do you ever have natural instincts like others do? And so forth. And his father was concerned that Carl couldn't do a good job of, ministering to Jenny, whom he was in love with. That is, Carl was in love with Jenny and he married her. And his father believed that he could not bring happiness to his wife. His father happened to be right, by the way. Jenny said many times that she wishes she and the children would die and be safely in their graves because it. If you're an atheist, what could be more blessed than to die? And then all of your troubles are over and you, I guess, go into non existence, which is also what Carol, of course, taught his family. And so he has six children, two of whom the oldest two daughters die of, a joint pact of suicide and so forth. It's a messy family, you know. A year after the manifesto was, After the manifesto was written, he was kicked out of his apartment.
Marx's Financial Dependence and His Hypocrisy Regarding Inheritance
By the way, if you read the book. Sandy, how do you like that line from his mother Henrietta? I, wish that Carl would actually earn some capital rather than just writing about it. That's an interesting line from a mother.
Sandy Rios: Yes. And she says that because he keeps taking money from his dad and then when his dad dies from his mother. Right, right.
Sandy Rios: So he's always, he's always.
Pastor Erwin Lutzer: Interesting thing.
Marx's Lifestyle, Lack of Hygiene, and Association with Filth
The manifesto says expressly that no child should have an inheritance given to them because it's unfair. And of course, when his mother Dies, he gets an attorney to make sure that he gets all the money from her. But, you know, there are exceptions, of course, as we know.
Sandy Rios: Yeah, well, he was, a. Basically a leech. I mean, he leased his. Frederick Engels, his good friend, who wrote the, manifesto with him, also gave him money all the time because, as I understand it, Dr. Lutzer, he would not work. Is that fair to say? He just chose not to work?
Pastor Erwin Lutzer: Yeah. Now, to be fair to him, he did write some articles that he got money for. I think he was writing for some newspapers in England. So he may have had a natural gift along that line. But he was, as I mentioned, evicted from his apartment a year after the manifesto because he wasn't paying rent. you know, I hate to go into this into detail, but he apparently had virtually no hygiene. He smoked a lot, he drank a lot. And, he was messy, let's just say.
Sandy Rios: Well, I'm going to fill in the blanks because I think he had boils all over his body. He was. He wouldn't bathe. He wasn't clean. And, I mean, I think that's part of the story. Which, honestly, Dr. Lutzer, when you think of people that are into, Satanism, it seems like cleanliness. I know there's no verse. I need to be very clear. There's no verse that says cleanliness is next to godliness, in spite of what my mother taught me. But, it does seem that when you get far from God, filth, kind of filth goes along with that. I don't know why. I don't know why that would be.
Pastor Erwin Lutzer: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
The Unpleasant Neighbor and the Abolition of Family in Marxist Ideology
And you, think, for example, even in the NewSong Testament, of the man who was in the graves, you know, in the graveyard. Living in a graveyard. I'm not saying exactly that Marx, was living in a graveyard. Obviously, he did have an apartment, but he, was not the kind of neighbor that you would have wanted, let's put it that way.
Sandy Rios: So, I. We brought up his wife, and I mentioned that video, that talked about what a great marriage they had. But how did she die? I thought she died. Kind of a sad ending too, but I could be wrong about that.
Pastor Erwin Lutzer: Yes. Now, this article that you say you read, you mean they had a wonderful marriage?
Sandy Rios: Yeah, it was a video talked about Marxist. I didn't obviously play that video because I knew it wasn't true. But, But this is the kind of stuff that's said about him.
Communism's View on Marriage, Children, and the Abolition of Oppression
Pastor Erwin Lutzer: She. She frequently mentioned that she wishes she would die with his kids. And Marx said He did not blame her for saying that. So. And of course, in the manifesto, it clearly says that the family has to be abolished. There should be no such thing, because marriage is an economic relationship. And therefore, people get married only. The only reason a wife stays with her husband is for economic reasons. And so once the economics is moved into the hands of the state, she's married. She is free, I should say to be married or unmarried however she wishes. And, Engels wrote a book about the family, and he said that Marx agreed with the book. And in it he says that a child should be taken from its mother as soon as it is able to exist without her. He doesn't give an age, but that's what he says. And of course, why the state has to educate the child. Parents, cannot be, trusted to educate their own children. After all, parents oppress their children. Men, oppress their wives. They take them to church. God is the ultimate oppressor. So we have to get rid of God, because oppression is the only reason you do evil.
The Outcomes of Communism in Practice: State-Raised Children and the Destruction of Identity
If you weren't oppressed, you would not do any evil at all. And so what you have to do is get rid of all oppression. And suddenly all of this goodness is going to burst out of people. And, we're going to be able to live in a whole different world.
Sandy Rios: Well, then, as we think about the way it's played out in countries, and we don't have to skip to this, but the Soviet Union, I suppose, was the first country that really implemented Marxism. And in regard to the children, you know, the children were taken from their mothers, and the mothers had to go out and. Well, no, they had the privilege of going out and working just like the men, because, you know, equality. So the babies were raised by state nurseries. And then there was a lot of madness. A lot of that did not work out well. But that's what they did because of. It was in the manifesto. And, so anyway, so to varying degrees, all these countries tried these things. and I remember, too. I'm sorry, Dr. Lutzer, I'm talking a bit too much, but I want to. You remember the Weather Underground? They were communists. Bernadine Dorn, Bill Ayers, in Chicago, you know, our Hometown, in the 60s, 70s and 80s, they were totally Marxists, wanted the complete destruction of the United States. And they did this thing called smash monogamy, where they didn't have no two people were allowed to have sex in their group. They had group sex. And sometimes they would have it all together. They Called it smash monogamy. These are the things that came out of Marx. I just, So I don't know how it played out.
Communism's Abolition of Truth, Morality, and Societal Structures
Pastor Erwin Lutzer: Of course, once you have no God, as Marx indicated, there's another quote in the, manifesto that comes to my mind. Communism abolishes all eternal truths. It abolishes all religion and all morality and will not even set them on a different foundation. I had to read that several times. What it meant was that we will not even seek to establish all truth and all morality on a different basis because it is constantly in flux. So parents send their kids to university today, and then the kid comes back and the parent says, oh, our children think differently now than they used to. They think differently than we raised them. Yes, they sure do. Why? Truth, whatever that is, is socially constructed. And so truth now, since it has no stability and no foundation, truth ends up being whatever I feel should be true. And. And it is constantly in flux. So you can even have your truth and I can have mine, which is of course insanity, but nonetheless, that's the way things are going in our university today. And I say thanks to Carl Merckx, thanks also to other writers and those who would agree with him in varying degrees. And, so that's where we're at.
Sandy Rios: Dr. Lucy, you mentioned a quote from the, manifesto about, overturning all existing social. What structure. Social. I don't remember what the word was.
Pastor Erwin Lutzer: Conditions.
Sandy Rios: Conditions. Well, I want to just point out, and I try to explain this to people too, is this means everything, everything you are accustomed to must be destroyed because that gives you a loyalty, a belonging in a structured group. And they want you to only be loyal to the state only. And so I remember.
The Marxist Goal: To Destroy All Loyalties Except to the State
I'll just give this one example. you know, men love football, NFL. And I told Bruce once, a long time ago, I said, bruce, they're going to go after the NFL. That's too much of a brotherhood for men, and it's too strong and it's too powerful, and they're going to have to break that up. And then suddenly all this trouble started, you know, with the Kaepernick. They use different devices. They. I don't know, you know. Well, anyway, I'll finish my sentence. They use all these different way of destroying, but they. They have managed, really. I don't think they've destroyed the NFL yet, but boy, they have destroyed the.
Pastor Erwin Lutzer: The.
Sandy Rios: The original, brotherhood of it. And it's become a, It's caused a lot of strife and unhappiness. Maybe it's been Recovered, I don't know. But they want everything. Your family, your church attendance, your love of God, your everything that gives you an identity to be taken out from m under you, so that all you love is the state.
Pastor Erwin Lutzer: So that's right.
Comparing Fascism and Communism: State Control and Nationalism vs. Class Struggle
And the state. The state will give you your daily bread. And with reference to the state, may I quote the words of Mussolini, who was actually a fascist, not a communist. And there is a difference. But nonetheless, the communists totally agree with Mussolini when he said everything within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state. So your loyalty should be only to the state. And, any other loyalty is competition, and the state actually is God walking on earth.
Sandy Rios: can you, just because you said it, give us a clear definition of the difference between fascism and communism?
Pastor Erwin Lutzer: Fascism is very nationalistic. Hitler, you know, Germany above all. And, of course Italy above all. It is Italy. Communism pays no attention to that. Communism says everything is based on class. And where you are in the economic spectrum. Are you a worker? Well, then of course you're a proletariat. Are you an owner of something, you own something and therefore you may employ, owners. That's the distinction. It's the owner based people versus the worker. And so that's the distinction. It is not based on nationalism per se.
Sandy Rios: And that's why the communists and the Nazis. The Nazis hated the communists. There was that much. People sometimes get that confused, you know. Yeah. All right. So, why do you think, honestly, Dr. Lutzer, why is Marxism such a powerful force? I think I know, but I want to know what you think.
Why Marxism Appeals: Promises vs. Results, Wealth Creation, and Distribution of Misery
Pastor Erwin Lutzer: Oh, Sandy, the reason that, democratic socialism is gaining steam here in the United States. Aren't you glad that I'm on with you today? I'm laughing because I can explain it in a single sentence. People judge it by its promises, not its results. I mean, who wouldn't want free health care, free, child care, free bus transportation, free, who knows? Free rent, free this, free this. And so. That sounds so good. Why not? Have you ever noticed this about the democratic socialists? They're always talking about how to, make sure that you divide, the money. They're always talking about dividing money. They never talk about earning money or making money. So what you do is you have to recognize they don't know how to make money. As a matter of fact, they don't really believe in making money because there's a certain amount of money in the world, and you can never increase that in a communist world. And so if the United States is wealthy, it's because it's wealthy on the backs of poor countries. We are wealthy because we made other countries poor. So that's the philosophy. So if you see a rich man, criticize him and vilify him because he became rich on the backs of the poor. Now that isn't true. You take a very, very wealthy man. He's actually invested his money. If I might, mention someone, Elon Musk, I believe, I think that he has employed nearly three quarters of a million people. He's provided employment, but that all is skipped over. And he has said that. It is said that if you have that much money, you stole it, you didn't earn it. Well, that of course, becomes very complicated. But what we need to do is to understand that in the modern Marxist, democratic socialist world, in that world, any wealth that you attain is actually attained on the backs of someone else. So everybody is to be poor. If I might get to the quote of, Winston, Churchill. Churchill said this. He said, the great vice of capitalism is the unequal distribution of blessings. But the great virtue, socialism, is the equal distribution of misery. So as long as everybody's alike, it's okay if everybody is poor, just as long as we are all poor together.
Sandy Rios: Wow, those are great quotes.
The Myth of Finite Wealth and the Historical Failure of Communism
And as you were talking about wealth, I just want to make this clear because I had to learn this. Wealth is not finite. I mean, it's like we don't have just X number of dollars or bars of gold or whatever in this world. It grows. Wealth is a thing that grows. Like planting a seed. It grows. There are no limits to how much wealth can be developed around the world. There really aren't. So it's absolutely wrong to think that it's static. And so the people that have wealth have it because the people that don't, they took it from the people that don't because there's only a finite amount of wealth. That's just not true. But, and you know, Dr. Lutzer, every country that communism has been tried in has utterly failed. I know that you've traveled extensively. You and Rebecca as well. I mean, what. What have you seen? I think I know you guys were in Russia before. I was, I think in the 80s, right?
Pastor Erwin Lutzer: Yes.
Observations from Russia: Economic Inefficiency, Lack of Innovation, and Bureaucracy
Mm
Sandy Rios: So.
Pastor Erwin Lutzer: Well, in those days, we were told that doctors in a hospital were not being paid much more than taxi drivers. Obviously, taxi drivers. That was a coveted job because they picked up Americans and they, they would get American money even though they weren't supp. But they did, of course. And then, so the whole Idea was this, that. I remember my interpreter saying that there was a factory in Russia that made shoes that no one could wear because the contour was on the wrong side. Okay? But they kept making them. They piled them high in their warehouses. Why? Because in communism, you get paid the same amount of money, whether you make something that somebody needs or somebody. Something that somebody doesn't need and can't use. Because, after all, it's not based on competition, saving money, or earning money as such. It's just, you get your check once you're. It's like the cast system. Once you're in a, certain level, that's where you stay and you pick up your check and you be happy with it. Don't try to get ahead for your family, because if you do that, you're going to have to employ capitalistic means.
Sandy Rios: You know, I was just thinking, maybe people could understand it this way. We know bureaucracy is just infuriating. It means a lot of people involved in one thing. You need to know, or you got. You call, you go to in, and you. You try to make a reservation at an airline. It has to go through all these channels, and you keep getting connected and connected. And. And in government, when you're trying to do Social Security or something else, if it goes through all these levels and you can't get an answer because there are so many people involved in this thing that involves you. That's bureaucracy. So, Dr. Lutzer, just think if the government is in charge of everything, just think how worthless, how far removed the bureaucrats are from the needs of real people. You know, they can't even, they can't take care of those details. And how could they even care about it? Because they're too far removed from the people. That's why we have a system of government where local governments are involved in the local things. But, that's just a practical reason why communism doesn't work. But I think about what I saw in Russia was like, you know, all the apartments were the same, and they all smelled like urine. The elevators were all broken down. The windows were broken. There was no repair. People would sit around drunk in the parks.
Personal Experiences of Oppression in Russia and North Korea: The Absence of Freedom and God
And that's just a tiny bit of what I saw, Dr. Lutzer. And, in North Korea, I saw abject fear, abject fear. I experienced it with them. And I won't go into that. So, I mean, I'll stop because, you know, you have your own stories. It doesn't work.
Pastor Erwin Lutzer: did you notice that, there was no Calvary Chapel in North Korea? Or no First Baptist Church or no Catholic church. You know, this leads to a different, a different topic which we can't get into today because our time is somewhat limited. But actually, there are those who believe that government isn't important. They think no matter what government comes to the United States, we'll always be. Be able to worship and so forth. Well, excuse me. As Frank Turek frequently says, good government cannot save us, but bad government can shut us down. In the book that we're talking about that I wrote, I had a chapter on Albania, for example, where I preached twice. And, Albania has never been able to overcome communism. I mean, they threw it off and they have elections, but communism did so much damage. Albania cannot really recover. And then, of course, you have a lot of corruption in the midst of this. And speaking of bureaucracy, Sandy, of course you have an awful lot of corruption. Because, you see, in a capitalistic society, you paid attention whether or not people are trying to pilfer from your business because you want to survive, you want to be a success, but the government doesn't have to because it has a lot of money, and it gives out the money, without necessarily demanding anything. Enough latitude so that you can have the kind of corruption that we hear about in the news from day to day.
Sandy Rios: And the other thing that goes along with it, Dr. Lutzer, is this incredible, creepy, dangerous, frightening, strangling. Hold on, people. I mentioned North Korea. That's Russia was the same with. Or even in East Germany, the Stasi. They watched the people. They knew everything they were doing. in China, they watched the birth of children. And if you had more than one baby, they would force you to kill your other children. They would watch your periods and check them each month. You know, they were watchers. And, And when I was in Russia, I bet this happened to you too. I had. When I'd leave my hotel room, I had to, turn in my passport. Or I had to. Maybe it was. I had to leave my passport overnight. I can't recall. But they watched every time we left the room. There were cameras in the. I don't know about cameras, but there were microphones in the rooms. There's no privacy. There's no free choice. There's no freedom. There's no freedom in these countries. And, Of course, no God. Of course, no God.
The Naivete of Ignoring History and the Enduring Power of Communism
Well, Dr. Lutzer, we talk.
Pastor Erwin Lutzer: People have no idea. They have no idea. And I think the reason that. If I might humbly say that many people are so naive, is they don't understand history they don't understand how ideas have worked themselves out and where the end comes. So, and here's another thing. When people are in desperation, and my interpreter reminded me of this when I was in Russia in the 80s. When people are in desperation, they oftentimes will opt for something far worse than they have, but they won't know it. He said that there were those who, even in his own family who said, yes, you know, the communists are evil, The Bolsheviks under Lenin are evil. But think of what the czars are doing. They are not paying attention to our needs. They are squandering money on themselves. And so you become angry and you end up choosing something that's worse than what you have. And certainly we as a nation need to learn that lesson.
Sandy Rios: You know, I guess, that is really. You. You came up to the brink of it. But could you say more, Dr. Lutzer, about what you think we're facing right now in terms of communism?
Pastor Erwin Lutzer: Well, in terms of communism, of course, everyone knows that it's in the news because you have so many people who are opting for, socialism. And then, of course you have it also with Islam, which should not surprise anyone, because years ago, 10 years ago, I wrote about this, that there was a relationship between Islam and liberalism.
The Incremental Approach of Marxism and the Importance of Voting
They were willing to put up with each other until Christianity and capitalism would be destroyed. And, this, of course, by the way, in the book, I also have a chapter on how Marxism came to America and how churches were supposed to be used to help bring it about incrementally. But the point is this, that there are people there, people today, some of whom I have no doubt have the best of intentions, have no idea where all this is going to lead. So after November, we will know. But that isn't the end. No matter which way it goes in November, it's not the end. People have to understand incrementalism, where you make some gains and where you're allowed to say certain things like, you know, that America, deserved 9, 11, or whatever. You're allowed to do that. Maybe people will understand that's not right. But that's okay. It's a step along a certain direction. And, So, Sandy, I don't want to end, though, on a very pessimistic note. I want to end with joy and with anticipation because even though I'm pessimistic regarding the world, I am very optimistic about the fact that God rules.
Sandy Rios: I am too, by the way.
Comparing the Impact of Marx and Moody: Evangelism vs. Revolutionary Ideology
I am too, by the way. And, I think it would be, from your Perspective. And again, the book is called Marx and Moody. And, Greg Quigle, professor, ah, of history, Church history, wrote the part about Dwight, L. Moody, which is also excellent, but we're not really touching on that too much. But, how would you compare the power with which Moody preached and changed the world and the power with which Marx wrote and, reached the world? how would you just compare those two?
Pastor Erwin Lutzer: Well, first of all, Moody preached this three Rs. Number one, we are ruined by sin. That immediately cuts cross grained with Marxism because Marx doesn't believe that we are sinners. It's just that we become sinners because of oppression. Moody says there is sin within you and only God can rescue us. That's why the second R is redeemed by the blood of Christ and the third is regenerated by the Holy Spirit. But Sandy, people who read the book that we're talking about, Marx and Moody, they will be surprised at how Moody also gave his life for people's social conditions. I mean, he began orphanages. He helped begin, of course, the ministry of Moody church, Moody Church, 1864. It was begun with the youth and the, children in Chicago. He provided centers here in Chicago and also learned how to do this in London with George Mueller and so forth for poor people to come and get food. At one time, Moody was taking care of 800 people, helping them to be able to feed their families and so forth. Of course, he enlisted a lot of other people and a lot of other ministries. He was good at that. But he did more for, for people than Karl Marx, of course, ever did. in fact, Marx, as far as I know, did nothing really for anyone else except that he did a lot of writing. And we are dealing with the results right now. So Moody is a great example of how you can do evangelism, which was his priority, but also be meeting the physical needs of people and their social needs. A marvelous example.
The Eternal Clash: Marx's Devilish Intentions vs. Moody's Divine Inspiration
And at the end of the book, I take them to the cemetery of both Marx and Moody and his wife and talk about their destinies and their legacies.
Sandy Rios: It does seem like, in fact it is the classic. You know, Marx is so open about his devilish, intentions about his inspiration from the devil himself. And Moody is of course so open about his inspiration from the King of Kings, Lord of Lords, the, you know, the creator of the universe. And it is like the, it is the everlasting and eternal clash between God and the devil. It just seems like this is why, you know, it has, Marxism has so much power, but we know who wins, Dr. Lutzer. We know who wins. And so with that, you know, we. We should bring this to a close, I think. the move.
Final Thoughts on Eternity, Personal Choice, and Choosing Life in Christ
The book again is called Marx and Moody. Two contemporaries, two Gospels, two tombstones, one choice. And the author is Dr. Erwin Lutzer, along with Professor Quigle. Dr. Ah, Lutzer. Any final thoughts?
Pastor Erwin Lutzer: No. The only final thought is that we have to live as if we're going to, die. And with that in mind, it's eternity that really matters. So the battle is eternal. The battle has to do with the spirit world. you know, you can't just convince people that they are wrong even when they clearly are, at least from our standpoint. What we have to do is to pray and seek God because we've wandered a long way from where we came as a nation and oftentimes as churches and as individuals.
Sandy Rios: So it's personal. It's not just corporate. It's not just the whole world and Marxism moving. It's personal to each of us. This. What are you going to do with this information? Who are you going to believe? Who are you going to embrace? And I think that we, we've made that decision, Dr. Lutzer. And I know we would encourage people to choose life. Choose life and not death. Well, thank you so much.
Pastor Erwin Lutzer: Yes.
The Book 'Marx and Moody' by Dr. Erwin Lutzer Available on Amazon
And if they've never accepted Christ, even though we talked mostly about Marx, remember, Jesus is the only qualified person to save us from our sins.
Sandy Rios: Amen and amen. M. And it isn't Marx, and it is certainly isn't the devil because he doesn't want to save you from your sins. Dr.
Sandy Rios: Lutzer, thank you. I always enjoy talking to you and thank you for this offering for the world and I. Now, can they get it anywhere, this book, Marx and Moody?
Pastor Erwin Lutzer: Yes, they can go to Amazon, for example. Marks and Moody.
Sandy Rios: Okay, very Good. All right, Dr. Erwin Lutzer, go ahead. No, what else?
Pastor Erwin Lutzer: Ah, I was going to say any other place as well. A number of bookstores are carrying it and so forth, but probably today, Mark's and Moody would be the best place.
Sandy Rios: Okay. All right. On Amazon.
Pastor Erwin Lutzer: All right.
Sandy Rios: Well, Dr. Lutzer, thank you for your time and thank you for this offering for the world in this important time in our history. All right, Sandy rios on Sandy Rios 24 7. This is Sandy Rios 247 on American Family Radio.
Planned Parenthood's Abortion Statistics and the Effectiveness of Preborn Ultrasounds
Sandy Rios: Abortions performed by Planned Parenthood were among the top leading causes of death in America, revealing the terrifying truth of the left's anti life agenda according to Planned Parenthood's 2022, 23 annual report. Abortions performed by the organization accounted for the time. Top four leading causes of death. Think about that. Paid for by our tax dollars. And honestly, this freight train is going down the track so fast and so powerfully. It's really hard. It's going to be hard for us to stop this. And I think one of the best ways I've said before, I'll say again, is preborn. Preborn who was not part of the government, not part of the public debate or campaign, but an organization that's simply providing ultrasounds for moms who are pregnant and doubting whether they should carry the baby to allow them to see their baby through ultrasound. It's an amazing process and it actually works. when the moms see their babies, I think it doubles the chance that they will not take the life of their baby. You know, you can't beat those odds. If you'd like to help, $28 pays for one ultrasound, just one. And you can send however much you can afford, go to preborn.com sandy that's preborn.com sandy the Sandy Rios 24. 7 podcast are available at afr.net back to Sandy Rios 24. 7 on American Family Radio.
The Transformative Power of Christ's Love and the Importance of Voting Against Marxism
Sandy Rios: Can you imagine a man with no theological training, little education, who started out selling shoes, but ended up leading over half a million people to Christ? This isn't an exaggeration or a legend. It's the true story of Dwight Moody. An ordinary man completely surrendered into God's hands. He didn't preach using big, complicated words. He wasn't after fame. But wherever he went, crowds were moved. Thousands gave their lives to Jesus and revival followed. Today you're going to meet the man who set hearts on fire without a golden pulpit, without status, without fame, but with an unshakable faith.
Sandy Rios: All right, that's part of, a video just, describing Dwight L. Moody. And you know, really it's the love of Christ. It's not the, the sword, truly, it's not the ballot box, but it is the love of Christ that transforms hearts and transforms countries. You know, in Russia, where I mentioned being way back, was, the underground church who were just stalwart. I remember, interviewing a KGB agent, and it at Radio Moscow. And if you're not old enough to know what that means, that was like the, the innards, the very innards, the heart of the, the, the center of the beast. And I talked to the English language translator. They were broadcasting into all of the world. Marxism, in various language. And I remember hearing the, the Woman who had that really silky, beautiful voice, speaking in perfect English, delivering propaganda. I'll so seductive. I'll never forget that. But the English. The guy in charge of English language programming was a KGB agent named Yuri Minayev. And I spent some time interviewing him, a long time, actually. And, we sat at a wooden table on a parquet, wooden floor with again, wooden chairs. And I remember asking him, he had told me that he had a grandmother. I think it was his grandmother who was involved in the underground church. And they had been doing all of these raids. The KGB had been raiding these churches, arresting these older women in their babushkas. And, and I said to him, I said, yuri, because he handed me. He had handed me a cross that belonged to his grandmother. Here he is, a KGB agent. And I said to him, I said, yuri, didn't, it bother you that you're going into these churches and raiding them and you know, your grandmother is, is there? And he goes, you hear it on the tape, and he moves his chair out. You hear the wood of the chair going along the parquet floor. And he said, it affected me very much. And I have that on tape. The power of the gospel. His helpless grandmother in her little scarf, the babushka, being arrested and affected him very much. This hard Marxist. This is the power of the gospel. The humility of Jesus, who, God, who humbled himself before us. That humility and that love that comes from the humility and the love he had for us for giving his son is the power. It's the power that changes everything. And so, I hope that we've said enough things today that will give you some food for thought. We certainly have to be diligent. And again, I beg you to vote in this election against the Marxists, because they have nothing good in mind for us. Nothing whatsoever. And you will so forever regret it if you don't vote. And I mean even vote for people you don't like, but you're voting against the wickedness that is running.
Concluding Remarks on 'Marx and Moody' and the Ministry of Preborn
Okay, so the book is called Marx and Moody. Two contemporaries, two Gospels, two tombstones. One choice, by Dr. Irwin Lutzer and Greg William Quigle. Well, I want to thank you for listening. And I want to remind you that PreBorn is our sponsor. We could not do these things without their help. They are in the business of saving the lives of babies very effectively by showing those moms who are uncertain, you know, a 4D ultrasound of their little one. And it's very, very effective. A redemptive, beautiful way of saving lives. And that means the moms, too, because they also talk about the gospel of Jesus Christ, forgiveness. A Ah, brand new start. so the girls also hear about that. So it's, a it's a wonderfully redemptive organization. That's why I love them and that's why they support my show. Freeboard.com Sandy It's $28 for one ultrasound. Preborn.com Sandy well, thank you so much for listening to today's edition of Sandy Rios. 24. It.
Sandy Rios engages Dr. Erwin Lutzer in a riveting discussion about the ideologies of Karl Marx and Dwight L. Moody. They unpack the contradictions within Marxism, including its call for the abolition of inheritance, while examining the life and impact of Moody, a pivotal figure in the Christian revival movement. They delve into the historical context of Marx's writings and the destructive outcomes of his ideology, contrasting it with Moody's life dedicated to service and faith.
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