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hello and welcome to the Doctor Nurse Mama show prescribing hope for healthy families here on American Family Radio. Here's your host, professor, pediatric nurse practitioner and mom of four, Dr. Jessica Peck.
Dr. Jessica Peck Well, hey there friends and welcome back to another conversation that I'm really looking forward to. Today we are welcoming back Brian Smith and Ed Uszynski If you are a regular listener, you will have heard them on before talking about youth sports, about families in sports and all the things. And we've talked about their book Away Game A Christian Parent's Guide to Navigating Youth Sports. And throughout this series that we've been doing, we have been asking some pretty tough questions. We've asked what sports are forming in our children and in us as their parents, as their cheerleaders, as their supporters, as their their away team, as their home, have explored issues of identity, character, discipleship, the pressures of schedules that come along with competitive athletics. We've talked about the very real impacts of money required to play, fear of missing out, and the opportunities that are sometimes emotionally charged on the car ride home, the opportunities to minister there. We've talked about recovering the joy of play, allowing our children to grow through healthy struggle, and keeping a good, good gift from becoming the center of our family's lives. If you have missed any of the prior episodes, go back and take a listen. These conversations really have been very honest, very transparent. We've asked, can we celebrate excellence without making achievement our identity? We've asked, can our children lose a game and still know they are deeply loved? Can we enjoy competition while also keeping our hearts anchored in Christ? And the answer is yes. But it's a little messy and complicated at times in our human walk. And if these conversations have stirred something in your family, I really want to encourage you. You can just begin right where you are. You do not have to have a perfect sports history.
Using Sports as a Ministry Opportunity: Cultivating Relationships and Sharing Faith
You don't have to be a perfect parent to just take the intentional next step, whether you are with little toddlers and T ball or whether you are on the college go pro track. We have spent some time examining the temptations that can enter this space. And today we' to move forward, though with a really positive intention. How can our families use sports as a ministry opportunity? And we we spend hours besides other beside other parents. We interact with coaches, we watch our kids build friendships, we invest in those friendships. How can God use those ordinary relationships? So whether your family is in a community league, you're in a travel team, a public school, a Christian school, a church league, homeschool league, today this conversation is for all of you talking about cultivating relationships, sharing our faith, and living in a way that really makes our words credible both on and off the field. As I said, I'm welcoming back Brian and Ed. Brian Smith writes about the intersection of Christian faith and athletics. He runs the Christianathlete.com his work helps athletes and families consider how following Jesus shapes the experience of sports. And Ed Uszynski holds a PhD from Bowling Green State University. He brings more than 30 years of experience in sports ministry, including Bible teaching and leadership development. And today they bring a thoughtful, practical perspective. They are husbands, they are dads, they are athletes themselves, they are coaches. And they are back to talk with us again. Brian and Ed, so glad to have you back. Thanks for spending another hour with us.
Brian Smith It's our pleasure. Thanks for having us.
Dr. Jessica Peck Well, Ed, let's, let's listen. Good morning. Let's start with you. Good morning, afternoon, whatever, at whatever Time it is that you're listening, but it's always a good time to have these conversations that we are having. Honestly, Ed, let's start with you, and let's talk about having a ministry mindset. What does it mean to look at the sports that we have so often? I think we silo things that we're doing. Like, okay, yeah, we do sports. Yeah, we do school. Yeah, we do church. And we kind of do all of these things. Things. But what does it mean to intentionally look at sports? Engagement with a ministry mindset?
Ed Uszynski Yeah, it's a great question. And I mean, it absolutely begins with not allowing it to be separate from my faith. I think Brian and I have talked about this for years with people that somehow we've given ourselves permission to have certain parts of our lives just not be part of our faith journey. And sports has become a really easy one to just keep separate from thinking and having a conscious about what does it mean for me to operate like a Christian in this space? It's just. It's not a question that we are usually asked or challenged to think in, whether it's the church or in our small groups or whatever. So that's even part of what Brian and I are trying to do, is make it. And many other organizations are now trying to make that, integrated, you know, our faith with our sport life. What does it look like to integrate those? And that's really where it starts. and after that, like we've talked about now in so many episodes, I'm going to have to do some m. Some internal work and become consciously aware of the baggage that I bring into this space that actually encourages me not to act like a Christian, to have a very worldly mentality and worldly behavior that just like this is not the way of Jesus, what's happening here?
Integrating Faith and Sport: Understanding the Holistic Development of Athletes
And as we've talked about, I mean, I've. We both, Brian and I have plenty of examples where we've become aware of that in our own life. And then you have to intentionally check yourself and replace it with something else. Maybe Brian can pick. Pick it up from there. Like, what do we replace it with then if we're not just going to be driven by the world's metrics and by what the youth sport industrial complex is teaching us to do. You know what, what's left over after that?
Dr. Jessica Peck That's a great question, Brian. Let's pick it up with you. Because I hear Ed saying a word over and over again, and he's using the word intentional. I think it takes some intentionality but so often we are just living at such a hyperactive speed. I mean, we're living at the speed of a smartphone, and we're rushing from one thing to the other. I think sometimes we just don't take the time to be disciplined, to have that kind of intention. What do you see?
Brian Smith I mean, you just hit it. It is speed. It's really culture discipling us that we are the result of our latest performance. I think intentionality starts with us realizing that, God absolutely cares about how we move our bodies, but he also cares about our soul and our. In our spirit. And it's really easy as athletes and as parents and as coaches and as. And as fans to just care about what the body is doing, in sport. But ministry, intentional ministry, demands really that we care about all of it. It is still, yes, let's celebrate what the body is capable of doing, but let's also be cognizant of what we're actually learning about somebody's soul and spirit in the process. And we can do that with athletes who are playing a sport. We can ask God to give us, a ministry mindset. God, help us see beyond what's actually happening on the field. Would you give us just a small glimmer into what you're doing in somebody's soul or spirit during this competition? But we can also do that in the stands with us. Like, we can. We can see that we have physical bodies next to us, but actually realize, man, this is. This is an eternal being that God has created in their image. They have a soul. And for some, for some purpose, I am sitting next to them today or standing next to them today. That is not, a mistake stake. It's not an accident. It doesn't always mean that God's wanting me to, like, get into a conversion conversation, but it does always mean that I need to represent Jesus well, whenever I'm. I'm next to people. And sports just regularly connects us with the same people over and over again. It's an outstanding space for ministry. If we change our perspective.
Dr. Jessica Peck This is so good. I mean, really, we're talking about people as holistic beings, as made in the image of God. And, you know, Brian, you. You and Ed, I'm sure, have much more expertise on this than I do. But I see sports kind of behind the curve a little bit in this because we are seeing. What I'm seeing, you know, just from the athletes that I see in a clinical context is the rise of sports psychology. There's all kinds of psychology books Psychology, coaches, we see professional teams bringing in psychology, which I think is great. You know, it's a great step forward. But we're body, mind and spirit, and we can't separate the spiritual part of our being. Like, when you walk out on the soccer field, it's not like, okay, I'm going to leave my, my Christian ident here on the sideline, and nothing spiritual is going to happen. There's no character formation, nothing happening there that is happening there. How do you see, you know, you've talked a little bit Ed, about the youth sports industrial complex, and all of that. How do you see that? Do you see that behind the curve on recognizing this, the spiritual integration of athletes as well, or do you see it differently?
Ed Uszynski Well, yes, absolutely. Behind the curve. And it's interesting, and Brian and I talk about this in one chapter in our book Away Game, just the history of how we got here and that it's really a pretty recent development that coaches and leagues and organizations don't really feel a responsibility to pay attention to the emotional, the psychological, and even the spiritual side of their athletes. I mean, if you go back into the, to the last century, all across the last century with the muscular Christianity movement, again, I don't want to introduce things that we're not going to unpack right now, but there really was this integration and expectation that sports actually was an opportunity to holistically develop a child in particular. And so it was expected of coaches that they would be able to bring some at least care and concern for the emotional and spiritual side. There was at least a cognizance. Even if I didn't really feel equipped to move into that space very well with the kids, I was at least aware that that was part of what we're trying to do here when it comes to sports. And it's only been in the last, I don't know, 20, 30 years that there's been a real separation of those. And it really is to a point now where the primary goal is to win and the primary goal is to focus on the body. Money, is much more involved. You know, it's a $40 billion industry. And anytime money becomes a huge priority, the emotional and spiritual stuff kind of tends to slide down the. Down the list in terms of priority of importance. And I think just the cultural moment that we live in kind of a post Christian time where there's not Judeo Christian values and Judeo Christian ethics that are kind of permeating throughout society, that we collectively expect that we're going to at least try to hold people to these higher standards or what virtue looks like. Like, that's just kind of gone. We were at a high school football game the other day and just talking about that as we were watching the taunting that was going on and the behavior on the sideline of the kids, and Amy, my wife, we were just talking about how, like, somebody needs to teach them to be different, otherwise we all devolve and just kind of default towards our base, sinful natures. Right. So somebody has to shape that and say, that's not how we do that. We. That. That's. That's not how we treat other people in the midst of this. This is how we win. This is how we lose. And there's something going on on a more of a soul level that needs to be taught by somebody. and yeah, it's pretty much gone now.
Freeing Athletes Through Faith: Playing Without Fear and Embracing God's Love
Dr. Jessica Peck What do you think Brian?
Brian Smith we would argue too? that for athletes who have a growing understanding of what it actually means to embrace that they're not just a physical body, that they have a soul and spirit, and to learn how to integrate faith within sport, that. That becomes a growing category in their life. It. It should. Doesn't always happen, but it should free them up to, to play without fear. Like, we argue all the time that athletes who are playing free just tend to compete better than those who are playing, because they're afraid that they're going to make a mistake and they don't want their coach to take them out. But if you really understand how God sees you and you have a growing category of I'm. Yeah, I'm a. I'm an eternal being created by God who loves me apart from my performance. It should just like, it should take. It should take this weight off of you. Like, I, I know I am fully loved right now. So again, it's like, man, these. It doesn't have to be either. Or. It's not like you have to practice Christian things or, or do things the way of the world. No, you can actually, you can actually practice the way that God. We believe God intended sport to work and be a really good athlete in the process.
Dr. Jessica Peck That is, that's so good because really what we're talking about, to have a ministry mindset, you've got to have that mindset yourself when you're walking out on the field. And, you know, I have been very open and transparent with you guys that athletes is not my jam. I was really the nerd, you know, who was in the science lab for sure. And I was a, the only thing I was a pro at was excuses to get out of pe. But I can. I've sat on the sidelines. I have watched my kids play. I'm, serious. I, I really, I could probably have a thousand one excuses. Maybe that'll be a book one day. But as a mom, you know, I sit on the sideline and I feel the pressure. All of the things that you're talking about, you know, the pressure of money and time and investment of your parents, all of those things. But if you are walking in, walking onto that sports field, walking into that arena, whatever that sports field is, and you have a mindset that I am created in the image of God and I am body, mind and spirit, and I'm going to walk in step with the Lord. That's where you've got to be before you can even begin to have a ministry mindset. And when we come back, we'll talk more about this. I'm telling you, the further in I get, the more I am convinced there is great opportunity for families here to really make a difference in the lives of their children and the families around them. We'll be right back. Don't go away. We'll see you on the other side of this break. Hello, I'm Jessica peck, host of Dr. Nurse Mama. did you know that this content is listener supported? Without people like you, this podcast would not exist. And that's why we need you. A generous monthly gift of any amount will help sustain American Family Radio and specifically this podcast. Please consider becoming a monthly financial partner today by visiting afr.net/give that's afr.net/give
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Dr. Jessica Peck you. Welcome back, friends. That is Lord, it feels good by the seemingly never aging TobyMac Can we all, all agree that he just seems perpetually young? When I look at how old he is, I. I won't out him right here on the radio. I think I wish that I had that kind of youth and vitality, but that's what we're talking about today. The vitality that's required to be in a sports environment. So glad to be joined again by Brian Smith and Ed Uszynski, sports ministry leaders, author of the book Away Game. I highly recommend that you get a copy of it if you have family who is involved in sports. And today we're talking about a ministry mindset. And really, sports schedules create opportunities to spend time with people that you might otherwise not meet. You share bleachers, you wait out weather delays, you go on tournament weekends, and you share the joys and the heartaches of watching children compete and win and sometimes not win. An intentional ministry begins with paying attention to those people and asking how we can love them. Well. And we've already had a great conversation about how we equip our athletes. Look at them holistically. They are body, mind and spirit. We can't separate their spiritual component and somehow extract that when they walk on the field. They've got to walk in there with that and have that inside before they start to share that. And before we go further in that, Brian, I want to go back to you and let's talk about the flip side of that. And I want to say something kind of, oh, it might step on a few toes. But we talked about having a ministry mindset and there's great opportunity in that. The other side of it is sometimes I see, okay, I hope I don't make people too mad here. Sometimes I see a family who is very over committed and maybe is not walking the walk walk or talking the talk, but saying, oh, well, you know, I know we're missing church, but we have a ministry here. How do we walk the line of that? How do we say, yes, it's a ministry mindset while not also using that as an excuse for unhealthy engagement. Is that, is that too tough, Brian? I'm gonna give. I'm gonna throw you that fastball. How you like that sports analogy?
Brian Smith That's definitely a fastball. yeah, we, and we honestly get asked questions like this a lot, essentially. Like the, the heart behind it is with, with all that is required of us in, in sports these days, in what we know we should be doing, with what the church is asking us to do. How do we, how do we live in that tension of we know we should be going to church and we know we should be involved in that community, but, but we're. We're kind of stuck in this sports space. And I found really, one or one of two things happens is, there are. There really are people who choose to do, you know, the travel ball, the travel league. They're missing large amounts of church, and they are like legit sports missionaries. Like, they're using that space to live out Jesus in front of these people, almost on a daily basis. I still don't think that that's a license to completely divorce ourselves from habitual church attendance. but there are people out there who. Who actually are saying it and doing it. What I have experienced is there's also a large amount of people who are saying that's a category in their life. But if you just watch how they carry themselves in the bleacher. And again, I want to be careful not to be judgy here.
Dr. Jessica Peck Yeah, yeah,
Brian Smith because I. I get it. But it's not a missional mindset. it's. I can tell myself that because I'm just watching it on a Sunday, that, no, I'm Jesus in the stands. But I think we need to do an inventory about what it actually means to be Jesus in the stands or on the sidelines before we just claim that that's exactly what we're doing. And maybe, Ed, that's one of the things we can talk about, is what does it actually look like for us, regardless of whether we're spending lots of money and we're missing church or this is just a Wednesday night. What does it look like for us to be Jesus and model him in front of other people, to have this missional mindset on the sideline or the stands?
Ed Uszynski Yeah, it's interesting because the sermon yesterday at church was actually out of Deuteronomy 6, verses 5 through 7.
Integrating Faith into Family Life and the Importance of Spiritual Formation
It says, you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and all your soul and all your mind. So that's pretty comprehensive. Again, that's just a kind of a gut check verse to meditate on as far as where am I at in relationship to that verse? And these words that I command you today shall be on your heart. You shall teach them diligently to your children and talk of them when you sit in your house, when you walk by the way, when you lie down, and when you rise. And what the pastor was even saying yesterday is that your kids know actually whether or not you value the spiritual side of life.
Brian Smith Good.
Ed Uszynski Again, so that's just that, that just had me really thinking yesterday about, yeah, what are they Learning from me is most important, and it's not all or nothing. It's not going to look the same for everybody. But for Amy and I, are we living in a way that broadcasts to our kids that however many times we're actually in church, and Brian and I have written about it like, we highly value gathering together with the people of God in what is commonly called church. There's reasons that we need to be there, consistently, not necessarily every week, but consistently across the year. And so what does that look like in our family? But more importantly, what is going on the rest of the time in the week? And if there's these massive gaps in spiritual formation and massive gaps where they don't actually hear us or see us living like Christians, then that's. There's going to be a, contradiction in their mind. Okay, so again, that, that's, That's a messy confrontation that we have to take seriously as parents if we want to hear well done, good and faithful, faithful servant when it comes to the way we let in our home as parents. So what does that mean?
Dr. Jessica Peck Yeah, you used a good phrase. You said gut check. This isn't about finger pointing. This is an invitation to a gut check. We really have to be intentional about looking at that.
Ed Uszynski What I feel is the number one way we look different when we look different is the interest we show in other people's lives around us. And you already mentioned this. Brian said it.
The Role of a Sports Chaplain: Intersecting Lives and Building Trust
We're sitting with people. We're journeying with people, embodied souls. It's not a coincidence that we wound up in this moment with this particular group of people. The late pastor Eugene Peterson so impacted me in his writings on, pastoral ministry and thinking like a chaplain as we move through life. And he would talk about how we should be in awe that any of us made it to this point. And he didn't say this specifically, but to sit in the bleachers with this group of people who there's a million reasons why they might have. Have not made it to this day. And so you have this chance to intersect their life and play some role in their formation and they in yours, in your life. And so, again, most of us don't think of that when we go to a game. So I need to take on the identity, Brian and I talk about this, of a sports chaplain more than a sports agent. Normally, I'm sitting at the game. My default is to think like an agent for my kid. I'm only focusing on my kid. I want them to get the best deal, be on the best team, get the most playing time, perform at the. That's how an Agent thinks a chaplain leaves. I mean, a chaplain's aware of those things, but he or she kind of leaves that to the coach, leaves that to the playing field. A, chaplain is asking a different set of questions. And the first thing they're doing is they're paying attention to the people that they're sitting with, and they're. They're having real conversations with those people that go beyond just not liking the coach or just complaining about some aspect of the game. There's real life actually to be talked about, and people desperately actually want to have those conversations. They really do. They just need somebody to open the door for it to happen.
Dr. Jessica Peck Oh, I love that. You know, as a mom sitting in the stands, I remember one time specifically there was a parent I really didn't know that I hadn't met, but who was cheering for my son, like, just absolutely cheering and saying, oh, he's doing such a good job, and this and was specific. And I heard her praising him to the people around him. Let me tell you. That caught my attention. But it really comes down to relationships sometimes. You know, sometimes, Brian, I feel like. We feel like, oh, we've got to say the right thing. We've got to give the gospel in three points. Oh, we've got to, you know, all of a sudden recite the Roman Road. But it really starts with those relationships. What would you like to add to what Ed is saying here? I think this is a great direction.
Brian Smith Yeah. I can, I can give you, a story from. From last night. We had a friend text us that goes to our church who is connected with one of our m. I'm a cross country coach. My wife and I are, if we haven't mentioned that on previous episodes, but one of this friend's, connections is a parent for one of the kids that we coach in. This kid that we coach, his family does not go to church. has kind of written off God. And she texted us last night and said, I don't know if you know this or not, but the way you carry yourselves, the way you live out your faith as a coach has impacted this athlete enough and his parents, where we are starting to have some open dialogue on what it looks like to actually have faith as a category in life. And they're considering coming to church. Now. We don't. We don't, like, pray before meets. We're not listening to Christian music on the bus. Lindsay and I are trying as best as we can to live out the fruit of the spirit. We're trying to lead with love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness. Self control is huge in sports. So we're just trying to live Christianly in the space. And what happens is people notice the fruit of the spirit is, is attractive to people. People see that and they're like that. I don't know what it is, but I want to learn a little bit more about that. And so again, you mentioned it. We don't need the, we don't need the. Entirely share the gospel. At some point we will, right? At some point we need to share the gospel if it's, if we get the open door.
Intentionality and Discipline: Preparing for Ministry Mindset in Sports
But, but we don't need this. Like this is everything you need to do to be a sports chaplain. No, just, just try as best as you can to live out the fruit of the spirit. Practice some self control in the stands. What would it look like for you to cheer with gentleness, to notice other people? Like you even mentioned Dr. Peck, when somebody notices your kid and tells you about it, you don't have to slap a Bible verse to share why this is a spiritual, Christianly thing to do. No, it feels good and it opens the door to further conversation. It builds trust and credibility. And man, if we had a team of parents doing that in the stands, I really do believe it would begin to transform communities.
Dr. Jessica Peck That is so exciting to think about. And Ed, you know, when we are really living out our faith. As I was saying before the break, sports is a thing that is naturally going to take you to your breaking point. I mean you're talking about a high stress environment. It's hard enough. You know, you just talked about Brian, how self control is so important in sports. It's hard to live out the fruit of the spirit in that high stress environment. I mean it's hard just like in everyday life. But you put us on the, on the sidelines and that is, is an area where you're going to feel stretched and stressed. How do you find discipline to do that, to do that with intentionality, to think about. Not like oh gosh, what are, what are people gonna think about what I say, but just to think. I want to walk in there today with a ministry mindset, with a mindset of a chaplain. I wan support my kid. I want to cheer on their excellence. But I also want to be mindful of the way that I am presenting the good news of the Gospel through my everyday life and conversations. At what. How do you think that we discipline ourselves to prepare for that intentionally?
Ed Uszynski Well, we could just turn everything you just said into A prayer before we leave the parking lot to go into the stadium or go into the field or the pool or wherever we're going. And I think we've talked about this before, but it's really important to. I need to check myself as a parent, and redo this almost every time. I just need to be mindful of, okay, what are going to be my triggers. You know, you said feeling anxious and stress. The kids should. They're performing. We shouldn't just think about that.
Dr. Jessica Peck True.
Ed Uszynski Like, we should not be full of stress and anxiety in the stands. That's part. I know. Well, that's part of our problem. So am I a lot of the times. And that's why I need to check myself before I go in. Like, why? Because I'm worried about what they're going to do or not do. Because that's going to be a reflection on me because it's going to ruin their future. Again, we've been through this. I mean, all of these things are largely outside of our control. What is inside my control is that I'm going to spend the next two hours sitting next to a group of people and the question will be, am I vested in them? Am I vested in their kids? And am I leaving my kid alone to just do what he or she is trying to do on the field and not keep screaming stuff at them and not keep fretting about what is or isn't happening with them? What Brian and I are saying is, in some ways it's as simple and as difficult as that. If I can just do that consistently, it stands out because most people are not doing that. So you, you'll be countercultural and feel like there's something different with you just by being other centered and not constantly screaming things from the stands at your kid.
Dr. Jessica Peck You know, that's easier said than done. But this is the ministry mindset. I think so often when we think of that, you know, as parents, we, we immediately go to an evangelistic stance, you know, like, but it really is about how we carry ourselves and how we treat other people. And. And we're already coming up on our second break. Our time together just goes way too fast. But when we come back, I want to talk about sometimes what we see is that lack of congruence. Now we have athletes all over, you know, where we have families, where we have athletes who are in Christian school settings where they may have more freedom or maybe a homeschool setting that, that, that's a Christian organization, or maybe they're in, in faith based sports where it's easier to kind of have those, those conversations and that language. But we see also athletes in secular environments and many who signal to their faith. We see it on the Sunday touchdowns, you know, where somebody might like point up or do a prayer gesture and then their post conference is filled with like expletives and all kinds of behavior. There's this lack of congruence there. And we'll talk about the honest ways that, that can impact people's perception of, of faith. But wherever you are in sports, really, truly your presence matters. You can minister in so many ways, whether you're just encouraging a discouraged player, you're responding to an official, you're welcoming a new family, or you're just apologizing for a mistake that you made on the sidelines. We'll be back with more from Ed and Brian and away game right after this break.
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Come Jesus Come by CeCe Winans Sometimes I fall to my knees and pray Come Jesus, come Let today be the day. Sometimes I feel like I'm gonna break But I'm holding on to a hope that won't faith. Come, Jesus, come. We've been waiting so long for the day you return to heal every hurt and right every wrong. Come, Jesus. come.
Dr. Jessica Peck Welcome back, friends. That is Come Jesus come by CeCe Winans and I don't know about you, but that is my prayer more days than not when we live in a world that just seems like it has lost its mind sometimes. But two people who have not lost their mind, at least according to my assessment, are Brian Smith and Ed Uszynski They are seasoned sports ministry leaders and we've been having a series of conversations about their book Away Game A Christian Parent's Guide to navigating Youth Sports. And this is so important to have today. We're talking about having a ministry mindset. And when you walk into whatever sport you are in, whatever sport you're engaged in as a family, walking in and recognizing that you're not leaving your faith behind, that is an opportunity to bless other kids, to bless other families, and to share with them the hope of the good news of Jesus. And we do that through our own personal walk, walking the walk and talking the talk. And, and again, I am trying to point fingers here, but it is a gut check. Somehow sports brings out that, you know, those primal emotions that we have. And we can say things that we don't mean, we can lose our temper, we can get frustrated, we can really, you know, just do things that maybe we wouldn't even do in our everyday life. We wouldn't, you know, scream at the teacher the way we're screaming at the ref. And those things matter because as we are demonstrating our character, we're building trust with those people who are around us. And trust happens through those repeated encounters and moments where you show character, where you show care, where you're having, whether it's a conversation, you know, on the side of the field, it's help during a difficult week remembering something another parent shared to communicate. They matter. Asking about things outside of sports, asking about their family, demonstrating care, building sincere friendships. And Brian, I told you that we would come back with this idea of congruence because I think we all see it. And it's not to say there has to be some perfect, perfect Christian and you've got to walk onto the field and you better say the right words or else.
Encouraging Congruence in Faith: Teaching Athletes to Worship God Through Sport
But we do see this lack of congruence. And I think even, especially like in faith based environments, you'll see the prayer before the game and then you hear the words on the sideline and you're like, what happened? How do we encourage a congruence for our kids to carry that faith with them not just through the opening prayer of the game, but through the closing whistle? And no matter what's up on the scoreboard, no matter what's happened in between and, ah, in between the game and the practice. How do we encourage a congruence both on and off the field?
Brian Smith Yeah, it needs to be taught like it really does. I'm. You mentioned the, the athletes in the, in the post game, you know, they give rightfully, they give all glory to God, they, they thank him, they point to him, and Then, yeah, maybe later on there's expletives or there's. There's something in the interview that, that smells like pride coming from their mouth. that's just because we don't. That's, that's the example we see, right? Like, we, we don't have a lot of teaching on what does it look like for us to have a good intersection of faith and sport while we're actually competing? What. Yeah, what does it look like on a. At a heart level, but also outwardly, what should it look like? And it's fascinating to me. I'm not trying to throw church under the bus. I love the local church. But even in the artificial intelligence conversation now, the church is like, grabbing that and trying to teach. Like, there's at conferences, there's seminars and breakouts, and how should we think Christianly about AI and when is it. When are we using it too much and not enough? And what does it say about us being made in the image of God and being able to reflect that? But, like, we're starting to think better about it because the church is owning it and helping lead through that. And it's still complicated and messy, but we just don't do that in sport. Like, sport continues to be this massive idol in our culture. And the church is largely silent on what does it look like to do exactly what you're saying? What does it look like for us as parents to help our kids realize that when they're going out on a field or in a court, this is actually an opportunity to worship God, that there are specific things you could do or maybe not do, practices that you should try on or avoid that would help you experience God's presence, and glorify him more than if you didn't do certain things. So I think it starts with the church. It starts with us as parents not just assuming athletes are going to figure it out. And not just assuming that as long as they say the right thing right after the game team, that's ultimately what God's looking for.
Dr. Jessica Peck That's a really interesting mindset, Brian, to think about worshiping God through your athletic ability. I mean, God created that. And you see, you know, at the Olympics or at the super bowl or at the World cup, when we see that, you know, just the pinnacle of human achievement, when we are cheering in the stands, I, I think it's so ironic because we don't realize we are worshiping a God who created humans who are able to do that. And to be able to worship God through the ways that he has gifted you. That is a good and godly thing to do. Ed, what do you have to add?
Ed Uszynski I was just thinking about how confusing it is for both athletes, for us as parents, even coaches, because. Because we haven't been taught well. And it's why organizations like fca, Athletes in Action, you know, different sport ministries that exist to try to help people, at least for a window of time, that we have access to them to understand the difference between rabbit's foot spirituality or what an old Sports Illustrated, writer named Frank Deford wrote 50 years ago about what he called the rise of sportianity. Whereas there's this mix of. I went to an Ohio State football game the other day, and so the entire team comes out and hits a knee. And, they've been doing this for years, as do, I think, most major college. It's just become a thing that they come down and they have a little prayer moment before the game. And I always think to myself, like, what's, what's really going on inside those guys? I was at a high school game the other day where it was just treacherous, just hedonistic the entire game. What was happening? It was so many examples of horrible things happening on the sideline. And then they ended up winning. And then they had a little pre game pray or post game prayer down in the end zone. And I just thought, again, we're having this conversation that's confusing because most of what happened here doesn't reflect a true story, true spiritual life, or a reforming spiritual life or a sanctifying spiritual life. Most of what happened here looked demonic, and then we slapped a prayer on it. And you mentioned Christian schools. Listen, you mentioned yourself in trouble earlier. I may get myself in trouble. Christian schools can be some of the worst places where this happens.
Practical Application: Equipping Parents and Leaders for Ministry in Sports
Where I've caught, taught, and I've been in Christian schools for stretches of time where we slap a prayer on the beginning of the event and then act like demons throughout it. So that's confusing. And so what does true spirituality look like again? We don't need to make this super complicated. It means that I'm cultivating my own soul before I step into the space. It means that I'm asking that whatever I do in word or deed, that I would give glory to God. We teach our kids. We need to teach our kids to think in those categories. It almost always has something to do with how we relate to other people around us. True spirituality does. Can you go 100% and try to knock your opponent down in your Sport. When you're playing a sport that involves physicality. Absolutely. And then there's nothing at all wrong with talking to them like a human being in the middle of timeouts or after the game or, you know, like we have to teach our kids and our coaches to understand what true spirituality looks like in the midst of competition.
Dr. Jessica Peck I do not disagree with anything you're saying, Ed. and, and Brian, I'm still thinking about what you said about AI and the church engaging. And you're, you're right. I, it is very difficult. And I think that contributes to this, this confusion that you're talking about, Ed, that, that whole separation, like, okay, this is Wednesday night youth group, this is Thursday night football practice or whatever the case may be. What do you see, Brian, as an opportunity for the church to step in to this space, much like they've stepped into the, and really equip families who were there to be successful. Because sometimes I think bringing back the judgy piece, you know, sometimes we, the church can be judgy of those. Well, you weren't here, so I'm not going to help you with that. You shouldn't be doing that anyway. How do we, how do we cross that divide and, and really love and lead these families? Well,
Brian Smith yeah, I mean, that's why we wrote the book, right? We, we wanted, we wanted to help answer this question. But I think church leaders can start with. Let, let's talk about the, the role of sports. Let's talk about that there is innate goodness in the ability that we have to just move our bodies and play a game. But let's talk about how sin has fractured the good gift of sport and what that looks like. And then church leaders need to begin to get really practical about how do we redeem the space. It's like we can get 30,000ft up and talk about theologically what does it look like to, to redeem sport. But I think parents really just need super practical things like Ed has talked about for the last year. The, the most spiritual thing you might be able to do on the sideline is just stop talking.
Dr. Jessica Peck Amen. It's true.
Brian Smith But parents need like, and it sounds so simplistic, but parents sitting in the, in the pews or the congress, like parents need to hear that. Like parents who are sitting in church need to hear on the back end of a sermon, on Deuteronomy. Here's how this could apply.
Integrating Faith Concepts into Sports Conversations and Family Life
This next week as you sit in the stands of your kids game, like, we need practical application based on whatever you're Talking about, like, our sermon this week is we're going through Song of Solomons. Like, we're talking about dating and sex and relationships. And you don't have to force a youth sports application into something like that, but you can for sure talk about, hey, as you and your spouse are navigating even the world of sports together, what would it look like for you to be on the same page when it comes to decisions you're making on this travel squad that, that impacts more than just your kid. It actually impacts your, your marriage if you think about how you're spending your time and your phone. So just, we need to get creative in talking about what our people are actually doing. M. And the research shows what our people are actually doing is spending lots of time and lots of money and lots of stress, stress and energy in the youth sports industrial complex. So let's just, let's help them out a little bit. Let's give them some practical ways that they can think well and act well in that space.
Dr. Jessica Peck M. I don't think it's a bridge too far, Brian. I mean, when we think about, I think about recent conversation about the controversy about Sydney Sweeney's commercials that were sexualizing sports. So honestly, it's not that too great of a leap to look at our kids, worlds. And Ed, you talked about before, you know, you were in church, which was great. I give you kudos and a out. But talking about that verse in Deuteronomy, I mean, talking about as we're watching the commercials on the TV during sports, these. It's really easier than you think to integrate those concepts of what we're learning to teach them, those biblical concepts. Ed, what do you have to add to this?
Ed Uszynski I'm just thinking as you're saying this, that I need to think as of myself as my kid's first discipler. And I just. That's just such an intimidating idea for most of us as parents, inside of sports, outside of sports, it's an intimidating idea. I'm having a hard enough time in my own walk with God and trying to be, you know, good in my marriage. And now I've got this additional responsibility to, to be a disciple or a chaplain. You know, as we've used that language with my kids, it sounds really intimidating. again, especially if I'm not really being equipped intentionally from whether it's church or just the other sources that I go to for my spiritual input. But Brian and I just keep saying, no, you can do this. It's not as complicated as it feels or Sounds, it really isn't like, listen to what we just said. Talk to God before you go into these spaces. Pray honestly. Release what's happening with your kid to him and, trust him with your kid's sport future. You're not going to be able to control that anyways, so. So focus on what you can control and learn how to love people that are around you. You're not there by accident. That's a, chaplain mentality. That's what a chaplain does. They pay attention to the people around them. They ask good questions and they're vulnerable about their own lives. If you can just get yourself to do that, like Brian said, we think if there were just pockets of people that took that seriously, it would transform what's happening in the bleachers and leave your kid alone. Ask them other questions besides performance questions. Ask them about the other kids on the team and their involvement with their, their lives. Ask them if they're having fun. Why or why not? What do they feel like they're learning? What do they want the next year to look like Again, we've talked about all these things and we talk about them in the book. It's. It's not that complicated. It's just a matter of being equipped with good questions and taking on a different identity when we show up in these spaces.
Dr. Jessica Peck Oh, I love it, love it, love it. And when you're doing life with people in the con and the construct of sports and you're plugged into a local church, it's easy to invite them to come to events. Hey, come to church with me. Come to this event with me. And to invite them into that, that faith space in your life. Brian and Ed, I am so grateful for the authenticity, for the transparency, for the vulnerability and the tough truths that you have been willing to deliver. Again, this is Brian Smith and Ed Uszynski. Their book is Away Game A Christian Parent's Guide to Navigating Youth Sports. And wherever you are, whether you're on the field or in the bleachers, I pray that the Lord will bless you and keep you and make his face to shine upon you and be gracious to you and give you peace. We'll see you next time. We'd like to thank our sponsors, including PreBorn. PreBorn has rescued over 400,000 babies from abortion and has seen over 100,000 commitments to Christ. Will you join PreBorn in continuing this good work? supporting young moms in crisis? Save a life today? Go to preborn.com/AFR
Jeff Chamblee the views and opinions expressed in this broadcast may not necessarily reflect those of the American Family association or American Family Radio.
Dr. Jessica Peck We would like to take a moment to thank our sponsor, PreBorn. When a mother meets her baby on ultrasound and hears their heartbeat, it's a divine connection. And the majority of the time she will choose life. But they can't do it without our help. Preborn needs us, the pro life community, to come alongside them. One ultrasound is just $28. To donate, dial pound250 and say the keyword baby or visit preborn.com/AFR $28 may not sound like much, but to a scared mother considering abortion, it can help provide something incredibly important. A real opportunity to pause and see her baby for the first time. Today, a woman facing an unexpected pregnancy can reach for her phone, search for abortion pills, connect with a provider online and have the pills delivered directly to her home. She can move from fear toward abortion incredibly quickly. But your gift can help create another opportunity. For just $28, you can help provide a free ultrasound through a PreBorn Network clinic. There, a woman can see her baby talk with people who will listen to what she's facing, receive compassionate support and consider another choice before abortion becomes her answer. And when women see their babies through an ultrasound at a PreBorn Network clinic, 80% choose life. $28 can help provide one ultrasound. $280 can help provide 10. Reach her before the pill does with your strongest gift. Today, dial pound 250 and say the keyword baby. That's pound 250 baby or visit preborn.com/AFR that's preborn.com/AFR all gifts are tax- deductible and PreBorn is a five star rated charity. preborn.com/AFR
hello and welcome to the Doctor Nurse Mama show prescribing hope for healthy families here on American Family Radio. Here's your host, professor, pediatric nurse practitioner and mom of four, Dr. Jessica Peck.
Dr. Jessica Peck Well, hey there friends and welcome back to another conversation that I'm really looking forward to. Today we are welcoming back Brian Smith and Ed Uszynski If you are a regular listener, you will have heard them on before talking about youth sports, about families in sports and all the things. And we've talked about their book Away Game A Christian Parent's Guide to Navigating Youth Sports. And throughout this series that we've been doing, we have been asking some pretty tough questions. We've asked what sports are forming in our children and in us as their parents, as their cheerleaders, as their supporters, as their their away team, as their home, have explored issues of identity, character, discipleship, the pressures of schedules that come along with competitive athletics. We've talked about the very real impacts of money required to play, fear of missing out, and the opportunities that are sometimes emotionally charged on the car ride home, the opportunities to minister there. We've talked about recovering the joy of play, allowing our children to grow through healthy struggle, and keeping a good, good gift from becoming the center of our family's lives. If you have missed any of the prior episodes, go back and take a listen. These conversations really have been very honest, very transparent. We've asked, can we celebrate excellence without making achievement our identity? We've asked, can our children lose a game and still know they are deeply loved? Can we enjoy competition while also keeping our hearts anchored in Christ? And the answer is yes. But it's a little messy and complicated at times in our human walk. And if these conversations have stirred something in your family, I really want to encourage you. You can just begin right where you are. You do not have to have a perfect sports history.
Using Sports as a Ministry Opportunity: Cultivating Relationships and Sharing Faith
You don't have to be a perfect parent to just take the intentional next step, whether you are with little toddlers and T ball or whether you are on the college go pro track. We have spent some time examining the temptations that can enter this space. And today we' to move forward, though with a really positive intention. How can our families use sports as a ministry opportunity? And we we spend hours besides other beside other parents. We interact with coaches, we watch our kids build friendships, we invest in those friendships. How can God use those ordinary relationships? So whether your family is in a community league, you're in a travel team, a public school, a Christian school, a church league, homeschool league, today this conversation is for all of you talking about cultivating relationships, sharing our faith, and living in a way that really makes our words credible both on and off the field. As I said, I'm welcoming back Brian and Ed. Brian Smith writes about the intersection of Christian faith and athletics. He runs the Christianathlete.com his work helps athletes and families consider how following Jesus shapes the experience of sports. And Ed Uszynski holds a PhD from Bowling Green State University. He brings more than 30 years of experience in sports ministry, including Bible teaching and leadership development. And today they bring a thoughtful, practical perspective. They are husbands, they are dads, they are athletes themselves, they are coaches. And they are back to talk with us again. Brian and Ed, so glad to have you back. Thanks for spending another hour with us.
Brian Smith It's our pleasure. Thanks for having us.
Dr. Jessica Peck Well, Ed, let's, let's listen. Good morning. Let's start with you. Good morning, afternoon, whatever, at whatever Time it is that you're listening, but it's always a good time to have these conversations that we are having. Honestly, Ed, let's start with you, and let's talk about having a ministry mindset. What does it mean to look at the sports that we have so often? I think we silo things that we're doing. Like, okay, yeah, we do sports. Yeah, we do school. Yeah, we do church. And we kind of do all of these things. Things. But what does it mean to intentionally look at sports? Engagement with a ministry mindset?
Ed Uszynski Yeah, it's a great question. And I mean, it absolutely begins with not allowing it to be separate from my faith. I think Brian and I have talked about this for years with people that somehow we've given ourselves permission to have certain parts of our lives just not be part of our faith journey. And sports has become a really easy one to just keep separate from thinking and having a conscious about what does it mean for me to operate like a Christian in this space? It's just. It's not a question that we are usually asked or challenged to think in, whether it's the church or in our small groups or whatever. So that's even part of what Brian and I are trying to do, is make it. And many other organizations are now trying to make that, integrated, you know, our faith with our sport life. What does it look like to integrate those? And that's really where it starts. and after that, like we've talked about now in so many episodes, I'm going to have to do some m. Some internal work and become consciously aware of the baggage that I bring into this space that actually encourages me not to act like a Christian, to have a very worldly mentality and worldly behavior that just like this is not the way of Jesus, what's happening here?
Integrating Faith and Sport: Understanding the Holistic Development of Athletes
And as we've talked about, I mean, I've. We both, Brian and I have plenty of examples where we've become aware of that in our own life. And then you have to intentionally check yourself and replace it with something else. Maybe Brian can pick. Pick it up from there. Like, what do we replace it with then if we're not just going to be driven by the world's metrics and by what the youth sport industrial complex is teaching us to do. You know what, what's left over after that?
Dr. Jessica Peck That's a great question, Brian. Let's pick it up with you. Because I hear Ed saying a word over and over again, and he's using the word intentional. I think it takes some intentionality but so often we are just living at such a hyperactive speed. I mean, we're living at the speed of a smartphone, and we're rushing from one thing to the other. I think sometimes we just don't take the time to be disciplined, to have that kind of intention. What do you see?
Brian Smith I mean, you just hit it. It is speed. It's really culture discipling us that we are the result of our latest performance. I think intentionality starts with us realizing that, God absolutely cares about how we move our bodies, but he also cares about our soul and our. In our spirit. And it's really easy as athletes and as parents and as coaches and as. And as fans to just care about what the body is doing, in sport. But ministry, intentional ministry, demands really that we care about all of it. It is still, yes, let's celebrate what the body is capable of doing, but let's also be cognizant of what we're actually learning about somebody's soul and spirit in the process. And we can do that with athletes who are playing a sport. We can ask God to give us, a ministry mindset. God, help us see beyond what's actually happening on the field. Would you give us just a small glimmer into what you're doing in somebody's soul or spirit during this competition? But we can also do that in the stands with us. Like, we can. We can see that we have physical bodies next to us, but actually realize, man, this is. This is an eternal being that God has created in their image. They have a soul. And for some, for some purpose, I am sitting next to them today or standing next to them today. That is not, a mistake stake. It's not an accident. It doesn't always mean that God's wanting me to, like, get into a conversion conversation, but it does always mean that I need to represent Jesus well, whenever I'm. I'm next to people. And sports just regularly connects us with the same people over and over again. It's an outstanding space for ministry. If we change our perspective.
Dr. Jessica Peck This is so good. I mean, really, we're talking about people as holistic beings, as made in the image of God. And, you know, Brian, you. You and Ed, I'm sure, have much more expertise on this than I do. But I see sports kind of behind the curve a little bit in this because we are seeing. What I'm seeing, you know, just from the athletes that I see in a clinical context is the rise of sports psychology. There's all kinds of psychology books Psychology, coaches, we see professional teams bringing in psychology, which I think is great. You know, it's a great step forward. But we're body, mind and spirit, and we can't separate the spiritual part of our being. Like, when you walk out on the soccer field, it's not like, okay, I'm going to leave my, my Christian ident here on the sideline, and nothing spiritual is going to happen. There's no character formation, nothing happening there that is happening there. How do you see, you know, you've talked a little bit Ed, about the youth sports industrial complex, and all of that. How do you see that? Do you see that behind the curve on recognizing this, the spiritual integration of athletes as well, or do you see it differently?
Ed Uszynski Well, yes, absolutely. Behind the curve. And it's interesting, and Brian and I talk about this in one chapter in our book Away Game, just the history of how we got here and that it's really a pretty recent development that coaches and leagues and organizations don't really feel a responsibility to pay attention to the emotional, the psychological, and even the spiritual side of their athletes. I mean, if you go back into the, to the last century, all across the last century with the muscular Christianity movement, again, I don't want to introduce things that we're not going to unpack right now, but there really was this integration and expectation that sports actually was an opportunity to holistically develop a child in particular. And so it was expected of coaches that they would be able to bring some at least care and concern for the emotional and spiritual side. There was at least a cognizance. Even if I didn't really feel equipped to move into that space very well with the kids, I was at least aware that that was part of what we're trying to do here when it comes to sports. And it's only been in the last, I don't know, 20, 30 years that there's been a real separation of those. And it really is to a point now where the primary goal is to win and the primary goal is to focus on the body. Money, is much more involved. You know, it's a $40 billion industry. And anytime money becomes a huge priority, the emotional and spiritual stuff kind of tends to slide down the. Down the list in terms of priority of importance. And I think just the cultural moment that we live in kind of a post Christian time where there's not Judeo Christian values and Judeo Christian ethics that are kind of permeating throughout society, that we collectively expect that we're going to at least try to hold people to these higher standards or what virtue looks like. Like, that's just kind of gone. We were at a high school football game the other day and just talking about that as we were watching the taunting that was going on and the behavior on the sideline of the kids, and Amy, my wife, we were just talking about how, like, somebody needs to teach them to be different, otherwise we all devolve and just kind of default towards our base, sinful natures. Right. So somebody has to shape that and say, that's not how we do that. We. That. That's. That's not how we treat other people in the midst of this. This is how we win. This is how we lose. And there's something going on on a more of a soul level that needs to be taught by somebody. and yeah, it's pretty much gone now.
Freeing Athletes Through Faith: Playing Without Fear and Embracing God's Love
Dr. Jessica Peck What do you think Brian?
Brian Smith we would argue too? that for athletes who have a growing understanding of what it actually means to embrace that they're not just a physical body, that they have a soul and spirit, and to learn how to integrate faith within sport, that. That becomes a growing category in their life. It. It should. Doesn't always happen, but it should free them up to, to play without fear. Like, we argue all the time that athletes who are playing free just tend to compete better than those who are playing, because they're afraid that they're going to make a mistake and they don't want their coach to take them out. But if you really understand how God sees you and you have a growing category of I'm. Yeah, I'm a. I'm an eternal being created by God who loves me apart from my performance. It should just like, it should take. It should take this weight off of you. Like, I, I know I am fully loved right now. So again, it's like, man, these. It doesn't have to be either. Or. It's not like you have to practice Christian things or, or do things the way of the world. No, you can actually, you can actually practice the way that God. We believe God intended sport to work and be a really good athlete in the process.
Dr. Jessica Peck That is, that's so good because really what we're talking about, to have a ministry mindset, you've got to have that mindset yourself when you're walking out on the field. And, you know, I have been very open and transparent with you guys that athletes is not my jam. I was really the nerd, you know, who was in the science lab for sure. And I was a, the only thing I was a pro at was excuses to get out of pe. But I can. I've sat on the sidelines. I have watched my kids play. I'm, serious. I, I really, I could probably have a thousand one excuses. Maybe that'll be a book one day. But as a mom, you know, I sit on the sideline and I feel the pressure. All of the things that you're talking about, you know, the pressure of money and time and investment of your parents, all of those things. But if you are walking in, walking onto that sports field, walking into that arena, whatever that sports field is, and you have a mindset that I am created in the image of God and I am body, mind and spirit, and I'm going to walk in step with the Lord. That's where you've got to be before you can even begin to have a ministry mindset. And when we come back, we'll talk more about this. I'm telling you, the further in I get, the more I am convinced there is great opportunity for families here to really make a difference in the lives of their children and the families around them. We'll be right back. Don't go away. We'll see you on the other side of this break. Hello, I'm Jessica peck, host of Dr. Nurse Mama. did you know that this content is listener supported? Without people like you, this podcast would not exist. And that's why we need you. A generous monthly gift of any amount will help sustain American Family Radio and specifically this podcast. Please consider becoming a monthly financial partner today by visiting afr.net/give that's afr.net/give
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Dr. Jessica Peck you. Welcome back, friends. That is Lord, it feels good by the seemingly never aging TobyMac Can we all, all agree that he just seems perpetually young? When I look at how old he is, I. I won't out him right here on the radio. I think I wish that I had that kind of youth and vitality, but that's what we're talking about today. The vitality that's required to be in a sports environment. So glad to be joined again by Brian Smith and Ed Uszynski, sports ministry leaders, author of the book Away Game. I highly recommend that you get a copy of it if you have family who is involved in sports. And today we're talking about a ministry mindset. And really, sports schedules create opportunities to spend time with people that you might otherwise not meet. You share bleachers, you wait out weather delays, you go on tournament weekends, and you share the joys and the heartaches of watching children compete and win and sometimes not win. An intentional ministry begins with paying attention to those people and asking how we can love them. Well. And we've already had a great conversation about how we equip our athletes. Look at them holistically. They are body, mind and spirit. We can't separate their spiritual component and somehow extract that when they walk on the field. They've got to walk in there with that and have that inside before they start to share that. And before we go further in that, Brian, I want to go back to you and let's talk about the flip side of that. And I want to say something kind of, oh, it might step on a few toes. But we talked about having a ministry mindset and there's great opportunity in that. The other side of it is sometimes I see, okay, I hope I don't make people too mad here. Sometimes I see a family who is very over committed and maybe is not walking the walk walk or talking the talk, but saying, oh, well, you know, I know we're missing church, but we have a ministry here. How do we walk the line of that? How do we say, yes, it's a ministry mindset while not also using that as an excuse for unhealthy engagement. Is that, is that too tough, Brian? I'm gonna give. I'm gonna throw you that fastball. How you like that sports analogy?
Brian Smith That's definitely a fastball. yeah, we, and we honestly get asked questions like this a lot, essentially. Like the, the heart behind it is with, with all that is required of us in, in sports these days, in what we know we should be doing, with what the church is asking us to do. How do we, how do we live in that tension of we know we should be going to church and we know we should be involved in that community, but, but we're. We're kind of stuck in this sports space. And I found really, one or one of two things happens is, there are. There really are people who choose to do, you know, the travel ball, the travel league. They're missing large amounts of church, and they are like legit sports missionaries. Like, they're using that space to live out Jesus in front of these people, almost on a daily basis. I still don't think that that's a license to completely divorce ourselves from habitual church attendance. but there are people out there who. Who actually are saying it and doing it. What I have experienced is there's also a large amount of people who are saying that's a category in their life. But if you just watch how they carry themselves in the bleacher. And again, I want to be careful not to be judgy here.
Dr. Jessica Peck Yeah, yeah,
Brian Smith because I. I get it. But it's not a missional mindset. it's. I can tell myself that because I'm just watching it on a Sunday, that, no, I'm Jesus in the stands. But I think we need to do an inventory about what it actually means to be Jesus in the stands or on the sidelines before we just claim that that's exactly what we're doing. And maybe, Ed, that's one of the things we can talk about, is what does it actually look like for us, regardless of whether we're spending lots of money and we're missing church or this is just a Wednesday night. What does it look like for us to be Jesus and model him in front of other people, to have this missional mindset on the sideline or the stands?
Ed Uszynski Yeah, it's interesting because the sermon yesterday at church was actually out of Deuteronomy 6, verses 5 through 7.
Integrating Faith into Family Life and the Importance of Spiritual Formation
It says, you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and all your soul and all your mind. So that's pretty comprehensive. Again, that's just a kind of a gut check verse to meditate on as far as where am I at in relationship to that verse? And these words that I command you today shall be on your heart. You shall teach them diligently to your children and talk of them when you sit in your house, when you walk by the way, when you lie down, and when you rise. And what the pastor was even saying yesterday is that your kids know actually whether or not you value the spiritual side of life.
Brian Smith Good.
Ed Uszynski Again, so that's just that, that just had me really thinking yesterday about, yeah, what are they Learning from me is most important, and it's not all or nothing. It's not going to look the same for everybody. But for Amy and I, are we living in a way that broadcasts to our kids that however many times we're actually in church, and Brian and I have written about it like, we highly value gathering together with the people of God in what is commonly called church. There's reasons that we need to be there, consistently, not necessarily every week, but consistently across the year. And so what does that look like in our family? But more importantly, what is going on the rest of the time in the week? And if there's these massive gaps in spiritual formation and massive gaps where they don't actually hear us or see us living like Christians, then that's. There's going to be a, contradiction in their mind. Okay, so again, that, that's, That's a messy confrontation that we have to take seriously as parents if we want to hear well done, good and faithful, faithful servant when it comes to the way we let in our home as parents. So what does that mean?
Dr. Jessica Peck Yeah, you used a good phrase. You said gut check. This isn't about finger pointing. This is an invitation to a gut check. We really have to be intentional about looking at that.
Ed Uszynski What I feel is the number one way we look different when we look different is the interest we show in other people's lives around us. And you already mentioned this. Brian said it.
The Role of a Sports Chaplain: Intersecting Lives and Building Trust
We're sitting with people. We're journeying with people, embodied souls. It's not a coincidence that we wound up in this moment with this particular group of people. The late pastor Eugene Peterson so impacted me in his writings on, pastoral ministry and thinking like a chaplain as we move through life. And he would talk about how we should be in awe that any of us made it to this point. And he didn't say this specifically, but to sit in the bleachers with this group of people who there's a million reasons why they might have. Have not made it to this day. And so you have this chance to intersect their life and play some role in their formation and they in yours, in your life. And so, again, most of us don't think of that when we go to a game. So I need to take on the identity, Brian and I talk about this, of a sports chaplain more than a sports agent. Normally, I'm sitting at the game. My default is to think like an agent for my kid. I'm only focusing on my kid. I want them to get the best deal, be on the best team, get the most playing time, perform at the. That's how an Agent thinks a chaplain leaves. I mean, a chaplain's aware of those things, but he or she kind of leaves that to the coach, leaves that to the playing field. A, chaplain is asking a different set of questions. And the first thing they're doing is they're paying attention to the people that they're sitting with, and they're. They're having real conversations with those people that go beyond just not liking the coach or just complaining about some aspect of the game. There's real life actually to be talked about, and people desperately actually want to have those conversations. They really do. They just need somebody to open the door for it to happen.
Dr. Jessica Peck Oh, I love that. You know, as a mom sitting in the stands, I remember one time specifically there was a parent I really didn't know that I hadn't met, but who was cheering for my son, like, just absolutely cheering and saying, oh, he's doing such a good job, and this and was specific. And I heard her praising him to the people around him. Let me tell you. That caught my attention. But it really comes down to relationships sometimes. You know, sometimes, Brian, I feel like. We feel like, oh, we've got to say the right thing. We've got to give the gospel in three points. Oh, we've got to, you know, all of a sudden recite the Roman Road. But it really starts with those relationships. What would you like to add to what Ed is saying here? I think this is a great direction.
Brian Smith Yeah. I can, I can give you, a story from. From last night. We had a friend text us that goes to our church who is connected with one of our m. I'm a cross country coach. My wife and I are, if we haven't mentioned that on previous episodes, but one of this friend's, connections is a parent for one of the kids that we coach in. This kid that we coach, his family does not go to church. has kind of written off God. And she texted us last night and said, I don't know if you know this or not, but the way you carry yourselves, the way you live out your faith as a coach has impacted this athlete enough and his parents, where we are starting to have some open dialogue on what it looks like to actually have faith as a category in life. And they're considering coming to church. Now. We don't. We don't, like, pray before meets. We're not listening to Christian music on the bus. Lindsay and I are trying as best as we can to live out the fruit of the spirit. We're trying to lead with love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness. Self control is huge in sports. So we're just trying to live Christianly in the space. And what happens is people notice the fruit of the spirit is, is attractive to people. People see that and they're like that. I don't know what it is, but I want to learn a little bit more about that. And so again, you mentioned it. We don't need the, we don't need the. Entirely share the gospel. At some point we will, right? At some point we need to share the gospel if it's, if we get the open door.
Intentionality and Discipline: Preparing for Ministry Mindset in Sports
But, but we don't need this. Like this is everything you need to do to be a sports chaplain. No, just, just try as best as you can to live out the fruit of the spirit. Practice some self control in the stands. What would it look like for you to cheer with gentleness, to notice other people? Like you even mentioned Dr. Peck, when somebody notices your kid and tells you about it, you don't have to slap a Bible verse to share why this is a spiritual, Christianly thing to do. No, it feels good and it opens the door to further conversation. It builds trust and credibility. And man, if we had a team of parents doing that in the stands, I really do believe it would begin to transform communities.
Dr. Jessica Peck That is so exciting to think about. And Ed, you know, when we are really living out our faith. As I was saying before the break, sports is a thing that is naturally going to take you to your breaking point. I mean you're talking about a high stress environment. It's hard enough. You know, you just talked about Brian, how self control is so important in sports. It's hard to live out the fruit of the spirit in that high stress environment. I mean it's hard just like in everyday life. But you put us on the, on the sidelines and that is, is an area where you're going to feel stretched and stressed. How do you find discipline to do that, to do that with intentionality, to think about. Not like oh gosh, what are, what are people gonna think about what I say, but just to think. I want to walk in there today with a ministry mindset, with a mindset of a chaplain. I wan support my kid. I want to cheer on their excellence. But I also want to be mindful of the way that I am presenting the good news of the Gospel through my everyday life and conversations. At what. How do you think that we discipline ourselves to prepare for that intentionally?
Ed Uszynski Well, we could just turn everything you just said into A prayer before we leave the parking lot to go into the stadium or go into the field or the pool or wherever we're going. And I think we've talked about this before, but it's really important to. I need to check myself as a parent, and redo this almost every time. I just need to be mindful of, okay, what are going to be my triggers. You know, you said feeling anxious and stress. The kids should. They're performing. We shouldn't just think about that.
Dr. Jessica Peck True.
Ed Uszynski Like, we should not be full of stress and anxiety in the stands. That's part. I know. Well, that's part of our problem. So am I a lot of the times. And that's why I need to check myself before I go in. Like, why? Because I'm worried about what they're going to do or not do. Because that's going to be a reflection on me because it's going to ruin their future. Again, we've been through this. I mean, all of these things are largely outside of our control. What is inside my control is that I'm going to spend the next two hours sitting next to a group of people and the question will be, am I vested in them? Am I vested in their kids? And am I leaving my kid alone to just do what he or she is trying to do on the field and not keep screaming stuff at them and not keep fretting about what is or isn't happening with them? What Brian and I are saying is, in some ways it's as simple and as difficult as that. If I can just do that consistently, it stands out because most people are not doing that. So you, you'll be countercultural and feel like there's something different with you just by being other centered and not constantly screaming things from the stands at your kid.
Dr. Jessica Peck You know, that's easier said than done. But this is the ministry mindset. I think so often when we think of that, you know, as parents, we, we immediately go to an evangelistic stance, you know, like, but it really is about how we carry ourselves and how we treat other people. And. And we're already coming up on our second break. Our time together just goes way too fast. But when we come back, I want to talk about sometimes what we see is that lack of congruence. Now we have athletes all over, you know, where we have families, where we have athletes who are in Christian school settings where they may have more freedom or maybe a homeschool setting that, that, that's a Christian organization, or maybe they're in, in faith based sports where it's easier to kind of have those, those conversations and that language. But we see also athletes in secular environments and many who signal to their faith. We see it on the Sunday touchdowns, you know, where somebody might like point up or do a prayer gesture and then their post conference is filled with like expletives and all kinds of behavior. There's this lack of congruence there. And we'll talk about the honest ways that, that can impact people's perception of, of faith. But wherever you are in sports, really, truly your presence matters. You can minister in so many ways, whether you're just encouraging a discouraged player, you're responding to an official, you're welcoming a new family, or you're just apologizing for a mistake that you made on the sidelines. We'll be back with more from Ed and Brian and away game right after this break.
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Come Jesus Come by CeCe Winans Sometimes I fall to my knees and pray Come Jesus, come Let today be the day. Sometimes I feel like I'm gonna break But I'm holding on to a hope that won't faith. Come, Jesus, come. We've been waiting so long for the day you return to heal every hurt and right every wrong. Come, Jesus. come.
Dr. Jessica Peck Welcome back, friends. That is Come Jesus come by CeCe Winans and I don't know about you, but that is my prayer more days than not when we live in a world that just seems like it has lost its mind sometimes. But two people who have not lost their mind, at least according to my assessment, are Brian Smith and Ed Uszynski They are seasoned sports ministry leaders and we've been having a series of conversations about their book Away Game A Christian Parent's Guide to navigating Youth Sports. And this is so important to have today. We're talking about having a ministry mindset. And when you walk into whatever sport you are in, whatever sport you're engaged in as a family, walking in and recognizing that you're not leaving your faith behind, that is an opportunity to bless other kids, to bless other families, and to share with them the hope of the good news of Jesus. And we do that through our own personal walk, walking the walk and talking the talk. And, and again, I am trying to point fingers here, but it is a gut check. Somehow sports brings out that, you know, those primal emotions that we have. And we can say things that we don't mean, we can lose our temper, we can get frustrated, we can really, you know, just do things that maybe we wouldn't even do in our everyday life. We wouldn't, you know, scream at the teacher the way we're screaming at the ref. And those things matter because as we are demonstrating our character, we're building trust with those people who are around us. And trust happens through those repeated encounters and moments where you show character, where you show care, where you're having, whether it's a conversation, you know, on the side of the field, it's help during a difficult week remembering something another parent shared to communicate. They matter. Asking about things outside of sports, asking about their family, demonstrating care, building sincere friendships. And Brian, I told you that we would come back with this idea of congruence because I think we all see it. And it's not to say there has to be some perfect, perfect Christian and you've got to walk onto the field and you better say the right words or else.
Encouraging Congruence in Faith: Teaching Athletes to Worship God Through Sport
But we do see this lack of congruence. And I think even, especially like in faith based environments, you'll see the prayer before the game and then you hear the words on the sideline and you're like, what happened? How do we encourage a congruence for our kids to carry that faith with them not just through the opening prayer of the game, but through the closing whistle? And no matter what's up on the scoreboard, no matter what's happened in between and, ah, in between the game and the practice. How do we encourage a congruence both on and off the field?
Brian Smith Yeah, it needs to be taught like it really does. I'm. You mentioned the, the athletes in the, in the post game, you know, they give rightfully, they give all glory to God, they, they thank him, they point to him, and Then, yeah, maybe later on there's expletives or there's. There's something in the interview that, that smells like pride coming from their mouth. that's just because we don't. That's, that's the example we see, right? Like, we, we don't have a lot of teaching on what does it look like for us to have a good intersection of faith and sport while we're actually competing? What. Yeah, what does it look like on a. At a heart level, but also outwardly, what should it look like? And it's fascinating to me. I'm not trying to throw church under the bus. I love the local church. But even in the artificial intelligence conversation now, the church is like, grabbing that and trying to teach. Like, there's at conferences, there's seminars and breakouts, and how should we think Christianly about AI and when is it. When are we using it too much and not enough? And what does it say about us being made in the image of God and being able to reflect that? But, like, we're starting to think better about it because the church is owning it and helping lead through that. And it's still complicated and messy, but we just don't do that in sport. Like, sport continues to be this massive idol in our culture. And the church is largely silent on what does it look like to do exactly what you're saying? What does it look like for us as parents to help our kids realize that when they're going out on a field or in a court, this is actually an opportunity to worship God, that there are specific things you could do or maybe not do, practices that you should try on or avoid that would help you experience God's presence, and glorify him more than if you didn't do certain things. So I think it starts with the church. It starts with us as parents not just assuming athletes are going to figure it out. And not just assuming that as long as they say the right thing right after the game team, that's ultimately what God's looking for.
Dr. Jessica Peck That's a really interesting mindset, Brian, to think about worshiping God through your athletic ability. I mean, God created that. And you see, you know, at the Olympics or at the super bowl or at the World cup, when we see that, you know, just the pinnacle of human achievement, when we are cheering in the stands, I, I think it's so ironic because we don't realize we are worshiping a God who created humans who are able to do that. And to be able to worship God through the ways that he has gifted you. That is a good and godly thing to do. Ed, what do you have to add?
Ed Uszynski I was just thinking about how confusing it is for both athletes, for us as parents, even coaches, because. Because we haven't been taught well. And it's why organizations like fca, Athletes in Action, you know, different sport ministries that exist to try to help people, at least for a window of time, that we have access to them to understand the difference between rabbit's foot spirituality or what an old Sports Illustrated, writer named Frank Deford wrote 50 years ago about what he called the rise of sportianity. Whereas there's this mix of. I went to an Ohio State football game the other day, and so the entire team comes out and hits a knee. And, they've been doing this for years, as do, I think, most major college. It's just become a thing that they come down and they have a little prayer moment before the game. And I always think to myself, like, what's, what's really going on inside those guys? I was at a high school game the other day where it was just treacherous, just hedonistic the entire game. What was happening? It was so many examples of horrible things happening on the sideline. And then they ended up winning. And then they had a little pre game pray or post game prayer down in the end zone. And I just thought, again, we're having this conversation that's confusing because most of what happened here doesn't reflect a true story, true spiritual life, or a reforming spiritual life or a sanctifying spiritual life. Most of what happened here looked demonic, and then we slapped a prayer on it. And you mentioned Christian schools. Listen, you mentioned yourself in trouble earlier. I may get myself in trouble. Christian schools can be some of the worst places where this happens.
Practical Application: Equipping Parents and Leaders for Ministry in Sports
Where I've caught, taught, and I've been in Christian schools for stretches of time where we slap a prayer on the beginning of the event and then act like demons throughout it. So that's confusing. And so what does true spirituality look like again? We don't need to make this super complicated. It means that I'm cultivating my own soul before I step into the space. It means that I'm asking that whatever I do in word or deed, that I would give glory to God. We teach our kids. We need to teach our kids to think in those categories. It almost always has something to do with how we relate to other people around us. True spirituality does. Can you go 100% and try to knock your opponent down in your Sport. When you're playing a sport that involves physicality. Absolutely. And then there's nothing at all wrong with talking to them like a human being in the middle of timeouts or after the game or, you know, like we have to teach our kids and our coaches to understand what true spirituality looks like in the midst of competition.
Dr. Jessica Peck I do not disagree with anything you're saying, Ed. and, and Brian, I'm still thinking about what you said about AI and the church engaging. And you're, you're right. I, it is very difficult. And I think that contributes to this, this confusion that you're talking about, Ed, that, that whole separation, like, okay, this is Wednesday night youth group, this is Thursday night football practice or whatever the case may be. What do you see, Brian, as an opportunity for the church to step in to this space, much like they've stepped into the, and really equip families who were there to be successful. Because sometimes I think bringing back the judgy piece, you know, sometimes we, the church can be judgy of those. Well, you weren't here, so I'm not going to help you with that. You shouldn't be doing that anyway. How do we, how do we cross that divide and, and really love and lead these families? Well,
Brian Smith yeah, I mean, that's why we wrote the book, right? We, we wanted, we wanted to help answer this question. But I think church leaders can start with. Let, let's talk about the, the role of sports. Let's talk about that there is innate goodness in the ability that we have to just move our bodies and play a game. But let's talk about how sin has fractured the good gift of sport and what that looks like. And then church leaders need to begin to get really practical about how do we redeem the space. It's like we can get 30,000ft up and talk about theologically what does it look like to, to redeem sport. But I think parents really just need super practical things like Ed has talked about for the last year. The, the most spiritual thing you might be able to do on the sideline is just stop talking.
Dr. Jessica Peck Amen. It's true.
Brian Smith But parents need like, and it sounds so simplistic, but parents sitting in the, in the pews or the congress, like parents need to hear that. Like parents who are sitting in church need to hear on the back end of a sermon, on Deuteronomy. Here's how this could apply.
Integrating Faith Concepts into Sports Conversations and Family Life
This next week as you sit in the stands of your kids game, like, we need practical application based on whatever you're Talking about, like, our sermon this week is we're going through Song of Solomons. Like, we're talking about dating and sex and relationships. And you don't have to force a youth sports application into something like that, but you can for sure talk about, hey, as you and your spouse are navigating even the world of sports together, what would it look like for you to be on the same page when it comes to decisions you're making on this travel squad that, that impacts more than just your kid. It actually impacts your, your marriage if you think about how you're spending your time and your phone. So just, we need to get creative in talking about what our people are actually doing. M. And the research shows what our people are actually doing is spending lots of time and lots of money and lots of stress, stress and energy in the youth sports industrial complex. So let's just, let's help them out a little bit. Let's give them some practical ways that they can think well and act well in that space.
Dr. Jessica Peck M. I don't think it's a bridge too far, Brian. I mean, when we think about, I think about recent conversation about the controversy about Sydney Sweeney's commercials that were sexualizing sports. So honestly, it's not that too great of a leap to look at our kids, worlds. And Ed, you talked about before, you know, you were in church, which was great. I give you kudos and a out. But talking about that verse in Deuteronomy, I mean, talking about as we're watching the commercials on the TV during sports, these. It's really easier than you think to integrate those concepts of what we're learning to teach them, those biblical concepts. Ed, what do you have to add to this?
Ed Uszynski I'm just thinking as you're saying this, that I need to think as of myself as my kid's first discipler. And I just. That's just such an intimidating idea for most of us as parents, inside of sports, outside of sports, it's an intimidating idea. I'm having a hard enough time in my own walk with God and trying to be, you know, good in my marriage. And now I've got this additional responsibility to, to be a disciple or a chaplain. You know, as we've used that language with my kids, it sounds really intimidating. again, especially if I'm not really being equipped intentionally from whether it's church or just the other sources that I go to for my spiritual input. But Brian and I just keep saying, no, you can do this. It's not as complicated as it feels or Sounds, it really isn't like, listen to what we just said. Talk to God before you go into these spaces. Pray honestly. Release what's happening with your kid to him and, trust him with your kid's sport future. You're not going to be able to control that anyways, so. So focus on what you can control and learn how to love people that are around you. You're not there by accident. That's a, chaplain mentality. That's what a chaplain does. They pay attention to the people around them. They ask good questions and they're vulnerable about their own lives. If you can just get yourself to do that, like Brian said, we think if there were just pockets of people that took that seriously, it would transform what's happening in the bleachers and leave your kid alone. Ask them other questions besides performance questions. Ask them about the other kids on the team and their involvement with their, their lives. Ask them if they're having fun. Why or why not? What do they feel like they're learning? What do they want the next year to look like Again, we've talked about all these things and we talk about them in the book. It's. It's not that complicated. It's just a matter of being equipped with good questions and taking on a different identity when we show up in these spaces.
Dr. Jessica Peck Oh, I love it, love it, love it. And when you're doing life with people in the con and the construct of sports and you're plugged into a local church, it's easy to invite them to come to events. Hey, come to church with me. Come to this event with me. And to invite them into that, that faith space in your life. Brian and Ed, I am so grateful for the authenticity, for the transparency, for the vulnerability and the tough truths that you have been willing to deliver. Again, this is Brian Smith and Ed Uszynski. Their book is Away Game A Christian Parent's Guide to Navigating Youth Sports. And wherever you are, whether you're on the field or in the bleachers, I pray that the Lord will bless you and keep you and make his face to shine upon you and be gracious to you and give you peace. We'll see you next time. We'd like to thank our sponsors, including PreBorn. PreBorn has rescued over 400,000 babies from abortion and has seen over 100,000 commitments to Christ. Will you join PreBorn in continuing this good work? supporting young moms in crisis? Save a life today? Go to preborn.com/AFR
Jeff Chamblee the views and opinions expressed in this broadcast may not necessarily reflect those of the American Family association or American Family Radio.
Jessica welcomes Ed Uszynski and Brian Smith for part three of a discussion about honoring the Lord with your child's sports experience.
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