Transcript

American Family Radio thanks sponsor, Preborn for supporting pro life advocacy

Dr. Jessica Peck: We would like to take a moment to thank our sponsor, PreBorn. When a mother meets her baby on ultrasound and hears their heartbeat, it's a divine connection and the majority of the time she will choose life. But they can't do it without our help. Preborn needs us, the pro life community, to come alongside them. One ultrasound is just $28. To donate, dial pound 250 and say the keyword BABY or visit preborn.com/AFR hello

 : and welcome to the Dr. Nurse Mama show prescribing Hope for healthy families here on American Family Radio. Here's your host, professor, pediatric nurse practitioner and mom of four, Dr. Jessica Peck.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, hey there friends and welcome to my favorite time of day getting to prescribe Hope for healthy families. And listen, I hope you're having a great week wherever you are, whatever you are doing. We just seem to be going through 2026 so quickly. I feel like in the recent years sometimes the spring has dragged on a little bit. But I feel like I cannot believe that we are past Easter, we are almost to summer. But we, regardless of wherever you are, we have a culture that is just moving faster and faster and faster. And not only that, it's constantly asking us to define and then redefine success because what's celebrated today is canceled tomorrow. We see that in a rapid cycle. You know, it used to be that we see, characters that maybe had lived in another century and we'd say, oh, maybe some of the things that they did weren't so great. Now it's like, you know, you, you can do that in a week. The cycle has just increased so quickly and culture calls us to be faster and bigger and more visible and more marketable and more influential and more social media swoon worthy. And creativity is measured by platforms. We look at what's their platform size, what's their reach and calling can, can even be measured by productivity in a world that is all about the hustle. And worth is often recognized as measured by recognition. It really is. And in that kind of world, it's easy to lose an essential truth. The that the ability to see people is a really lost art when we see people and vocation and faith with depth instead of speed. So I'm inviting you, as I do every weekday at 2, just to take a pause, to slow your roll a little bit and let's practice the art of conversation because we, are surrounded by noise and comparison and constant self definition and what's your brand? But beneath it all, I know there are many of you. I'm Asking these questions. Many of you are asking these questions. I get asked these questions all the time. What is the meaning of life? How do I make a meaningful life when I get to the end of my life? What is my legacy going to look like? Is successful really supposed to cost us our soul? Is this pursuit of the quote, unquote, American dream just supposed to cost us that? And what does it mean to live faithfully when no one is watching? And today's conversation. We are going to invite you, me, and my guest into a different way of seeing. You know, I was reminded I interviewed a man who lost his sight. He was, on the mission field and he talked about how that loss of sight sharpened his other senses and had changed his life. But we are going to talk about seeing and what it means to see today and really dial into our senses.

Jennifer Trafton's new book explores faith, imagination and vocation

My guest is Jennifer Trafton. She's an author, an artist, a storyteller, and a creative thinker. I know there's people out there who saying, oh, she sounds like my people. Her work explores the intersection of faith, imagination, and vocation. I think imagination is a lost art these days because we're outsourcing our imagination to the algorithm. Her new book, if Only We Could See Reimagining Creativity, Compassion and Calling through the Extraordinary Life of Lilias Trotter. It releases tomorrow from BH Publishing Group. And this book reintroduces us to Lilias Trotter. She is a gifted 19th century artist whose talent was recognized by critic John Ruskin, yet who chose to leave the pursuit of artistic fame to serve overlooked communities in London. In London and later North Africa. It's not a traditional biography. It's a blend of storytelling and theology and reflection. See the creative piece pulling in here to help readers reimagine what it means to live a beautiful possible life. Jennifer, this sounds like a breath of fresh air. Welcome. I'm so glad to have you here.

Jennifer Trafton: Thank you. It is a delight to be here. And that was a wonderful introduction to Lilias.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, thank you so much.

Jennifer, tell us about how you came to know the Lord

But before we dive into Lilias's life, let's dive into yours. Tell us a little bit about you. Can you introduce yourself to, to our listeners how you came to know the Lord and how he put this message on your heart. I know there's a story behind this which I, I can't wait to hear.

Jennifer Trafton: Well, I was a four year old in vacation Bible school when I, received the Lord into my heart. Yeah. So it's one of my earliest memories actually, of sitting in vacation Bible school at the very end of the week and they were singing into my heart, Lord Jesus. I still remember that. And getting up and inching past my teacher's legs and going forward, to, to receive Jesus into my heart. They had an altar call. And so that is a very, very early memory for me. I don't remember what I was feeling. But I was such a shy little girl that I can't explain that in any other way than the Holy Spirit drawing me at that moment. I grew up in a Christian family. My dad was in north, was a, NewSong Testament professor. He's retired now and went to a very loving small family like church. So I was really surrounded by a very healthy Christian, world growing up. but in my twenties I really kind of hit a crisis in my faith. And it was a crisis of a lot of things, of vocation and calling and all kinds of things. but one of the reasons for that crisis was I was studying church history. I was, I was ah, going to seminary and then graduate school. I was studying the history of the church. And I really struggled with how does, if Christianity is true, if God is true, if the Holy Spirit really is making us new, how could Christians have screwed up so badly in so many ways in history? How, how have there been so many wars? How have been. How, how is there so much division in the church? and I became really disillusion, with the history of the church and what, you know, all the things that didn't look like, what I thought that it should look like. but by that same token, it has been Christians from the past, from history, who have mentored and walked with me through my journey, have encouraged me time and time and again, who continue to show me again and again what, what a truly Christ life like should look. And so Lily was one of those people. But there have been, there have been many. I love to look back into the past and find those hidden people who are not necessarily the ones who are making a big splash in the history books and not the noisy successful ones, but I think it's often the hidden people, the quiet people who God is really working through. And that someday when we, when he tells us the real story of what was happening all the, all that time in human history, it's not going to be what the history books are telling us. He's going to tell us a story of how the Holy Spirit was working through small things, quiet things, hidden people. And that has actually been restorative to my faith and it still is today. As you know, it's very easy to look around and see the brokenness, and just to focus on the news and the. The people who are talking very loudly. And it is good for me and my faith to remember that God works through the little people and the quiet things. So that's a little bit.

Dr. Jessica Peck: I love it. I love it. Jennifer, first of all, shout out to vbs because I just. I love that those seeds were there. God's word does not return void. And just those seeds planted as a girl. And, you know, often many young people start to wrestle with their faith. In some ways, this is very developmentally normal because we start to separate. You know, you described a very safe, supportive upbringing. Praise God for that, too, because that gives hope to those who don't have those blessings growing up, that it is possible. And you can be a cycle breaker and you can start that for your own family. But it's normal to have questions, to have doubts, to wrestle with things, because that's a way of, you know, detaching that faith from being attached to your parents and being. Making that faith that your own. And I love this whole premise of looking at what, people the world would call small. But, you know, Jennifer, I think about so many people I've sat across the microphone from and they tell me their testimony of how they come to know the Lord. And a lot of times it's a flannel graph. You know, it's a lady who sat at the front of a class with a flannel graph who was, you know, telling faithfully Bible stories, or whoever was your vacation Bible school volunteer. Just all of those people who are faithfully serving who may not have the spotlight or celebrity, but these are real people we will meet one day. I mean, these are people of faith that are real people that will. Will believe.

You first heard of Lilias Trotter through a documentary

So I want to know about the beginning of how you first heard of Lilias Trotter, because I don't think that this is a name that is floating around at family dinner tables today.

Jennifer Trafton: Oh, it isn't. I first heard of her through a documentary on, I think it's on Amazon and YouTube that you can watch Many Beautiful Things and it's a beautiful story of Lilia Strotter's life. It, includes her art, and I really recommend it. It's beautiful. Many Beautiful Things. but I watched the story of this woman's life, and I cried at the end because she was this picture of a life well lived. a legacy that was a legacy of love. And friendship and relationship more so than a legacy of lots of success or, you know, she was an artist, but you can't go to any museums in the world and see her art. so she had this presence about her. This, her friends said the la. The lavishness of her love, the generosity that she was known for. I just saw this woman who I wanted to be like. I don't know if anybody's read the book Miss Rumphius. It's a picture book that's one of my favorite picture books, Miss Rumphius by Barbara Cooney. and it's a book about this woman who wants to make the world more beautiful. And that's the message of the book. You have to make the world more beautiful. And. And I felt like I had found the real life version of this picture book character that I'd always loved, who actually did spend her life making the world more beautiful through her art, through her relationships, through her ministry, both in England and in North Africa, and who died surrounded by those who had. She had loved and mentored. she never had her own children, but she was surrounded by her spiritual children at the end of her life. So it was really this kind of. This picture of her, this legacy that she left. and I wanted to spend time with her. I can't wait to meet her someday and spend eternity with her. I wanted to spend more time with her, to be in her presence for a while through her writings, through her art, and to learn what I could from her. And so she really became a companion for me in a lot of ways, one of those historical companions over the last five or six years. And, it's been just complete honor and joy to get to tell her story in this book and hopefully then invite other people to get to know her too. I really wanted the book to feel like an invitation to a friendship, an encounter with a person, not just a book of information about her. But I want you to draw near and meet her.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Let's talk about this really pivotal moment in her life. Because even though she lived, you know, so long ago, it is a moment that is remarkably relevant. That feels like there's a lot of us who can relate to this kind of moment because she had. There's a tension there because she had this extraordinary artistic ability. She was clearly, you know, she clearly was very gifted and she got recognition from one of the most influential art critics of her time. I mean, it's so crazy how this was, you know, how many hundred years ago, and yet that's what People are still waiting to be discovered. You want that moment. And one encounter like that can really take your life in a different direction. And when you look at really famous artists or celebrities or, you look at you know, just anybody who is, who has famous or made it big, it's most of the time it comes back to this one encounter where they're discovered. But she walked away from that trajectory that most people would have defined as success, the chance of a lifetime, you know, and, and in a modern world that is still obsessed with visibility and achievement and platform building, her decision really feels, just remarkably relevant. So we're already up against our first break. Jennifer. I cannot believe that. But when we come back, I do want to talk more about her life, about that decision and what we can learn about it because there are ancient truths to be learned from historical figures, just like you said. The book is called if only we could Reimagining creativity, compassion and calling through the extraordinary life of Lilias Trotter. Now again, this is a gifted 19th century artist whose work drew the praise of, famed critic John Ruskin, but she decided to just turn it away. And Jennifer, one of the things that you've said, it's your hope that readers are inspired by her to rediscover wonder, embrace a calling to creative compassion, and reimagine what faithfulness can look like in everyday life. And so having that new way of seeing. When we come back, I also want to talk about the influence of her work and the hymn turn your eyes upon Jesus. I've been talking about this song for like a month now. So we will have more when we come back with Jennifer Trafton. Don't go away. We've got more help and hope on the other side of this break and we'll talk more about what it means to build a beautiful possible life.

An ultrasound provided by preborn helped Candice hear her baby's heartbeat

 : Candace talks about finding out she was pregnant. Thankfully, an ultrasound provided by preborn allowed her to hear her baby's heartbeat. The sonogram sealed the deal for me. My baby was like this tiny little spectrum of hope and I saw his heart beating on the screen and knowing that there's life growing inside. I mean, that sonogram changed my life. I went from just Candace to mom. Thank you to everybody that has given these gifts. You guys are giving more than money. You guys are giving love.

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Goodbye Yesterday by Elevation Rhythm and Gracie Binion: Goodbye yesterday I'm living in the light of a new day I won't waste another minute in my old ways Praise the Lord I've been born again Goodbye yesterday I'm living in the light of a new day I won't waste my Another minute in my old ways Praise the, Lord I've been born again.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Welcome back, friends. That is elevation, rhythm and gracie Binion singing Goodbye yesterday. And, you know, in the news cycle of today, sometimes I feel like saying goodbye yesterday, and sometimes I feel like I wake up, I check my phone and I'm like, all right, goodbye today already. But listen, we are going back to yesterday today, and we are revisiting the life of someone named Lilias Trotter. Now, she was a 19th century artist, artist who had a tremendous opportunity to really become world famous for all the ways that everything that her fate seemed to be laid out before her. She made a radically different change. And we're talking to author Jennifer Trafton, who is releasing a new book tomorrow called if Only We Could See, talking about her life. It's not just a biography. It's theology. It's an invitation. It's, it's really just, an invitation just to slow down and to look at the world with a different lens. So, Jennifer, I want to go back to this moment that I was describing before the break. Can you tell us a little bit more about that and what we can learn about that today?

Jennifer Trafton: Yeah, it reminds me of the stories of, of, movie casters, who are your agents who are going out in the crowd and they spot somebody in the crowd, you know, and, oh, that, that is the person I'm looking for for this movie. And, you know, they discover somebody and they had this life. And it was so kind of imagine a similar experience at a hotel in Switzerland. And this, this, this celebrity art critic is art teacher. Is there, hard to believe right now that somebody like that could be a celebrity? But he was. And then also at the same hotel happens to be this English mother and her daughter, who, And the daughter is very talented at art. And the mother says, I have a talented daughter and there is a celebrity, like, over there who could make my daughter's. So the mother sends her daughter's, sketchbook and drawings to Art Ruskin. To Ruskin. John Ruskin, this man and says, would you maybe teach her a little bit? I think she has some Talent. I mean, it's kind of a, Like a really presumptuous thing for a mother to do, you know, and if I was the daughter, I would have been so embarrassed. Oh, my gosh, mom. You just want to be done. But he took. John Breskin, took a look at these, These drawings, these paintings by this young woman, and he was so impressed. He took her out sketch all over Italy and Europe. And he talked later about how, she just had this instinctive talent, that it was more of an innate gift than any other student he taught, that she just had this gift for seeing something and immediately capturing it in paint. And he was so impressed that he took her under his wing. And for years she, would travel to his estate and learn painting and learn drawing from him. And he. He was her mentor, he was her teacher. And one day he said, like, you are. You have a gift. And if you totally and completely give yourself to this, to art and to devote yourself to this, you could be the greatest painter of your generation. You could do things that were immortal. And of course, this threw her into this crisis for days where she would pray. Like, who wouldn't want to be told something like that? That's amazing that for somebody that you respect to not only encourage your. Your art and the thing that you love to do, but say like, look, you are. There's something special about you. I mean, that's a wonderful thing to hear. But Lily was also, I'm sorry, I call her Lily because her friends called her Lily. But Lily also had given her life over to Christ and was, actively serving, in the inner city of London. She was. She had been part of the Dwight Moody's revivals and, the spiritual revivals that were happening. And she believed firmly that, we need to consecrate all of our gifts and our time and our abilities and everything in our life to God and let him do with it whatever he will. So when Ruskin gave her this opportunity, her belief was that she needed to seek first the kingdom of God. She needed to first put all of the. Her. Her gifts and her talents and her opportunities on. On the, ah, on the altar, and give them over to God. And then it was his decision what to do with them. So she did turn away. She turned her, She turned down this opportunity with Ruskin and this promise that he gave to her that, you know, that she could have this fame and, and do things that were immortal. but the. The amazing thing is that in putting all of that on the altar, so to speak, and sacrificing or consecrating all that to God, she ended up using, or God ended up using her art for the rest of her life in ways that she could have never expected. So she gave up the. The traditional successful kind of picture, what being an artist means in the world, and having her paintings on museum walls and, you know, we're not reading about her in art history books, she gave up that. But in doing so and in trusting that God, who. The God who gave her those gifts knew how to use them, she ended up going down a path in which her creativity was expressed in so many ways. And her artistry, flourished first in London, but especially in North Africa, where she went in all sorts of ways. Her friends and her co workers loved her art. They loved her imagination. They were drawn to that very creative visionary, part of her that made her a good artist. And she also saw the world through the eyes of an artist, and that affected every part of her life. That's how she saw people. That's how she. Her love for the individual beauty of people is the love of an artist seeing something that God has made and loving its beauty and paying attention to it and giving it individuality and dignity. So that artist's eye that made her so gifted and that Ruskin loved so much, she gave up the fame and the success, but she didn't give that up. And it's beautiful to me to see how God took this thing that she had laid on the altar consecrated to his, to whatever he wanted to do with it. He took that thing in her, that gift, and I think multiplied it and used it in ways that she could never have foreseen, but I think have had far deeper and greater impact on the kingdom of God ultimately.

 Lily turned away from opportunity to focus on Jesus

Dr. Jessica Peck: You know, Jennifer, I can hear so many people encouraged by this story already. And I can see why you have written an invitation for people to meet Lily, as we will call her now, because I feel like I'm in the friend's circle now too. But, you know, when you look at what she turned away, I mean, even in today's day and age, if somebody turns down an opportunity like that, the words that we use in society are things like, you're crazy. Are you out of your mind? Why would you do that? But then we see people who take that opportunity and are ruined by it, you know, are miserable, are their life takes. we've all seen those cautionary tales. And I see so many stories of celebrities who are so broken and sad and lonely and, you know, in some ways, misused, and all of those kinds of things. And so you said that Lily turned away from this opportunity that Ruskin gave her, and she really turned her eyes toward Jesus. And she is the author of the poem turn your eyes upon Jesus, which one of my favorite songs of all time. I know right now, even people are starting to sing it in their head. There are people who said, yep, that's the song that was playing when I accepted the Lord like it has. I can't even imagine the impact of that song. And I shared a little bit with you that I'll share later, but share with us about. That's another way that her creativity, her artistry was expressed was through writing these lyrics.

Jennifer Trafton: So she actually didn't write the hymn itself, but the hymn, Turn youn Eyes on Jesus was based upon an essay that Lily wrote. So that.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Thank you for giving it for me.

Jennifer Trafton: No, it's okay. and it's really drawing from Lily's language.

Dr. Jessica Peck: So her life inspired the hymn.

Jennifer Trafton: Yeah, yeah. So she. Go ahead. It came from a day where she. Well, one of the things that Lily loved to do was to. To take walks, to be out in the world. And she would. She would be there with her sketchbook and her Bible, you know, open before her. So she'd be looking at the beauty of creation, listening to whatever God might have to say to her that day through that. The creation and through Scripture. And she was sketching at the same time. And that, you know, that. That presence that. That, The spiritual practice of being present and being and noticing and observing was important to her. So there's one day where she. She says the word of the Lord came to me this morning through a dandelion. She's seeing this dandelion in Switzerland. And it's this, you know, beautiful little flower that is half, withered. But she says it's full face to the sun, and it has caught into its heart all of the glory it could hold. And it was shining so radiantly. So imagine this little yellow dandelion. And she. She goes on to say. And it seemed to talk to me, standing there, to talk about the possibility of making the very best of these lives of ours. For if the sun of righteousness has risen upon our hearts, there is an ocean of grace and love and power lying all around us. An ocean to which all earthly light is but a drop. And it's ready to transfigure us as the sunshine transfigured the dandelion. And on the same condition that we Stand full face to God. Gathered up, focused lives intent on one aim, Christ. These are the lives that God can concentrate. Blessedness. So this is. She ended up first writing this in her journal and then turning it into an essay called Focused and she. Which she talks about that idea of focusing your eyes, focusing on Christ. And when we focus, we turn full face to God. Just like when you focus on something far away, then the. The stuff around you kind of grows blurry. She says if we're focusing on Christ, and all the things that would take us away from Christ will grow dim. And so you can start to hear the words of that hymn. Turn. So these are Lily's words. Turn your turn. Full your soul's vision to Jesus. And look and look at him. And a strange dimness will come over all that is apart from him. So Helen Lemo, I think it's called Lemal or Lemo. Helen Lemo read this article by Lily, and she. She was inspired to write this hymn, Turn your eyes upon Jesus, in which she uses that same language. Turn your eyes on Jesus. Turn. Look full in his wonderful face. And the things of earth will grow strangely dim in the light of his glory and grace. Am I getting that right? I think that.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Oh, my goodness. Yes. Yes.

Jennifer Trafton: Okay. I'm just. So. Can you hear all echoes of Lily and the dandelion and the glory of the sun that's reflected in the face of the dandelion as the dandelions facing the sun? And so Helen Lemmel, was inspired to write this hymn, and it became the kind of the theme hymn of the Keswick conference that year. And Lily, which Lily was present at this conference when this hymn was sung that had been based upon her book. Yeah, a conference that happened in England every year. and so this hymn, turn your eyes upon Jesus, was. Was the theme that. That year. And Lily got to hear it, before she died. So that is the. That's the origin of that hymn. And, I love the story behind the dandelion. The picture of a dandelion is really important to Lily. It comes up again and again, this image of a dandelion, facing the sun, focusing on the. And really capturing all the glory of the sun in its face. But then the dandelion becomes this little silver globe, you know, eventually, that you blow now the dandelion, once it becomes a silver globe of seeds, and you blow on the. The dandelion and you see all the seeds, you know, scattering to the wind. Every child knows this. So that dandelion that has been golden turns into the silver globe of seeds. And this is the way she saw, our lives and our callings, that we are the dandelion. And we, we hold ourselves up to the breath of God. And we're offering ourselves and all of our gifts, like her gift for, for being an artist, all of our talents, all of her time, we are simply standing in God's presence, offering it. And then the breath of God, the spirit does the rest. The breath. The wind takes those seeds, makes them scatter and fly, fly far and wide over the fields. And those seeds, God will take wherever he knows they need to be. And that seed will grow and flourish and flower. And we may never see it. We may never see where our seeds end up, where our lives and our legacies might, bear fruit, might flower. That's beyond us. That's beyond our lives. It's beyond our vision. but this trust that if she allowed us, if she allowed herself to, be available and ready to be given, that God could take all of her life, everything in her life, and do with it something far beyond what she could have imagined. And I think that to me is one of the ways in which she has encouraged me as somebody who hasn't always been able to figure out my vocation or where I fit in the world, and who often feels like, like I'm wasting time or I'm wasting things, God doesn't waste anything, you know, for if we're allowing ourselves to be the little dandelion, in the wind, that the seeds of art that we've, you know, we've borne in our lives might, might bear fruit in some far away field that we will never see. And we can trust that God, that the Holy Spirit has, has taken it, and done what he could only do with it.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Yeah, well, you describe it so beautifully, Jennifer. And you're really talking about the intersection of faith and imagination, which is God, given those gifts of creativity. And when we come back, I want to talk about creativity as a spiritual practice because I know that there are so many who think, okay, how can God use this gift that I have especially. I also want to know, Jennifer, how you found out so much about her life, because that is fascinating to me as well. And just you paint a picture so vivid to be able to see that she had some idea of some of the impact of her work. But I wonder what she must have felt, you know, all of that time just thinking, okay, this is the path that I've taken. So we'd love to talk more about the life of Lilias Trotter. And we're talking about the book if Only We Could See by Jennifer Trafton. We'll be right back after this break. And my father, your great grandfather, fought in World War II. Really? He was a gunner on the big ship out in the Pacific Ocean. Wow. Your great grandmother did her part, too. Was she on a ship? Oh, no. She stayed back home. She and a lot of her friends worked really hard in a factory because the men had gone off to war and they held scrap metal drives to help in the war effort. The folks back home were heroes, too.

Jeff Chamblee: Here at the American Family association, we consider you the heroes back home as you fulfill your responsibility of caring for your family day to day. Your partnership with us is crucial as we fight the enemies of freedom in America. Thank you for your commitment to the American Family Association. Grandpa, what's a scrap metal drive? Let's get some cookies and I'll tell you all about it.

Jesus Over Everything by Andrew Holt and The Belonging Company: Jesus over everything he reigns forever more Our song for all eternity. Jesus Christ is Lord

Dr. Jessica Peck: Welcome back, friends. That is Jesus Over Everything by Andrew Holt and the Belonging Company. And listen, we are talking about someone who lived a couple of centuries ago who, even though that song had not been written, took on that sentiment of Jesus over everything. We're talking about the remarkable life of Lilias Trotter, who was a gifted 19th century artist whose work drew the praise of famed critic John Ruskin. She had an invitation to apprentice under him to basically be world famous. And she walked away from that and decided to serve underserved communities for the rest of her life. And author Jennifer Trafton has been researching her life for the last several years and is talking about that life in a new book called if Only We Could See Reimagining Creativity, Compassion and Calling through the Extraordinary Life of Lilias Trotter. It releases tomorrow, which is really exciting. And this is not just a biography. It is really, a theological, beautiful, artistic invitation to take a look at your own life and to really think about living a beautiful, possible life.

Jennifer spent several weeks going through Lily's journals and art

So, Jennifer, before the break, we were talking about just. You have told some beautiful stories about Lily and her life. And I was asking you during the break about how in the world you found out all of this because she did live a quiet life. She was not world famous. She had turned that away. And you told me some pretty. And it took you. It was not easy. It was not easy to do but tell about the treasures that you found in London and elsewhere.

Jennifer Trafton: Yeah, well, you know, the thing is that during her own day, she was much more known, during. When she died, one of the obituaries called her a worldwide spiritual force. So the fact that she. So she, you know, she did live this very hidden life in a corner and didn't have any huge successes, and yet she was beloved by people. and so one of the things that she did that, the way. One of the ways that she used her creativity was she kept journals for 40 years during. Especially during those years in Africa. And so she had this beautiful, like, amazing record of her life and the people that she met and the things that she was doing. And, full of stories, and they're also beautifully illustrated. So her journals were also her sketchbooks and her photo albums. And so I got to spend several weeks, first in Wheaton College and then at University of London with her journals, going through them page by page. 40 years of her life in beautiful detail. They are full of these exquisite tiny paintings. So tiny you could hold it in the palm of your hand. And you've got this entire landscape and beautiful mountains, in these tiny little, little watercolors, there are letters that she wrote, you know, and people wrote to her. And so I got to spend a lot of time just holding the stuff of her life. You know, I feel. I feel really bad for people who are writing history books or biographies in 50 years, because what are they going to have that we've left behind? Emails, texts, like YouTube videos.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Terrible.

Jennifer Trafton: What a boring way of having to, you know, research. Whereas, when you. When you look back at somebody who lived, in her case, you know, over a century ago, you have their. Their letters and their photographs and their handwriting and a leaf or a flower that she dried and pushed into the pa. And there's something about holding that physical stuff of her life, especially because she was so creative and so much of it is very artistic. That makes her feel really real. And, So I really did feel like I was spending time with her every single day, going in and reading her diary and kind of imagining that she's there having a conversation with me. so it was very, solitary, work. I'm down in the basement of an archive, you know, but. But it was an absolute treasure to get to spend that time with her journals and her art. Yeah.

Dr. Jessica Peck: M. That is just beautiful.

Jennifer: How is AI going to change creativity and artistry?

And you talk about in your book, you talk about creativity as a spiritual practice, and that's not something that we talk about a lot today. And what I'm hearing a lot right now, Jennifer, is how is AI going To change all of this. I was just recently at a symposium that talked about the intersection of faith and AI and we were talking about like, what are the. And there were a lot of people, let me tell you, who were talking way over my head, who were very much smarter than I was, who are theological in nature and pondering really great questions about what does this mean for the gifts bestowed on humanity by God? The gifts of creativity and artistry? And what is art? And is AI generated art, even art? Can we call it art? And you know, how is as these machine generated, imitations of art going to impact the world? But you are pushing forward. I love that you said, by the way, about handwriting and just some of those, you know, older, more timeless things, because that was actually our habit of the week. every week we have a habit. And last Friday it was writing letters and the art of that and the legacy of that.

Talk a little bit about creativity as a spiritual practice

But talk a little bit about creativity as a spiritual practice, because I don't think that's something that people are talking about a lot.

Jennifer Trafton: Yeah, you talk about AI and so many of the conversations about AI are about like the product of like, you know, is AI going to make as good of a, or better than, you know, human, ah, artists, this, this thing that can be sold out in the world. I want to come at it from the other way around and say, what is it that creativity and art do for us as we're making it? So what is art doing for me as I'm making it? Not just like, am I going to be able to make a piece of art that as good as AI or is AI going to take that away from me? It kind of is irrelevant to the question of why should I be drawing or writing or playing the piano or doing something? What is it doing for me? And that's where I think that creativity as a spiritual practice comes in. what does it do for us when we participate in this, as you say, this God given to every single person, this God given, way of bearing his image in the world, which is to be part of that, creative work that he, has done and is doing, is continuing to do. And the. So what is that doing for me? One of the things that I think that Lily's teaching me is to. Is the paying attention part of creativity of really looking and attending to the divine artists. The way that God has created, the way that God has left his own fingerprints on his, on his creation and on his, his creatures, the creatures who bear his image and that paying attention, the Close. Seeing the close looking and the delight in God's art, God's masterpieces, that's what's fueling her creativity every day as she's going out into the world and she's taking her sketchbook and her Bible and she's paying attention to what God as an artist is painting for her. That is what is then fueling her. And in participating in that, in, in in practicing that gift of creativity, whatever that means in our lives, which it could mean, cooking a meal or decorating the house, or we get to actually learn more about God through that. We get to be drawn closer to his beauty, to his purposes in the world, to his personality as we see how he has created beauty and, and then practice that in our own lives. So, that conscious practice of paying attention and being present in the world, being present in the moment that God has made, and seeing the beauty that God has made, that is an inner transformation that happens that AI is never going to be able to touch. It has nothing to do with the product that you put out into the world. So I, you know, I, work a lot with artists in Nashville and have spent my life in circles of people both who are professional artists, but also people who love beauty and story, but don't necessarily consider themselves to be artists. And I firmly believe that God has put that imagination, that, that ability in every single person. It's not about like becoming a successful professional artist and, and therefore you can, you know, spend time drawing. I think that that that gift that we have, that we can sit and appreciate beauty and, and, and help to create that for others and manifest that for others, that's just a tremendous gift that we have from God. So I don't know if that is answering your question exactly, but that is.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, you know, I wonder, Jennifer, because you said that Lily was more well known in her time. And it seems that as time has gone on, her memory has faded, her presence has faded a bit from today's world. And I wonder if that's because so much of the art that she seemed to have create was within the human story spirit of the people she encountered. And I do believe that God equips us to do that, to make such a beautiful imprint on someone's life on a human soul. And it sounds like after she turned down Ruskin's offer to travel the world and chase fame and riches and maybe galleries that would still be displaying her painting, it seems like she chose instead to imprint her art on the human soul and Maybe as those human souls have gone to be with Jesus, that presence has faded, but amplified probably in heaven.

Jennifer: Lily's legacy was relational. She loved people. She saw hidden potential in people

So in our last few minutes together, Jennifer, take us over the rest of the arc and give us a preview of kind of how her life trajectory went from that time she made that pivot until the end of her life.

Jennifer Trafton: Oh, I could tell you so many stories. We could be on here for another hour. But she, she was first involved in London with the ywca. ah, she was. Built a hostel and restaurant for working girls, working women. She was rescuing victims of sex trafficking. And so she was really in the midst of that social, reform in London. But then she felt this call to become a missionary to North Africa. One, evening during a mission conference, she felt, she said, a strange yearning love for the people over in North Africa. So those 40 years, she didn't start any lasting church. She didn't build any institutions. Her legacy was relational. It was people. She loved people. She was a magnet for people. And the thing that made her safe and really a safe place for so many different kinds of people to come to and find welcome the fact that she saw them. She went out into their villages and that she, she got to know their lives and their children and she heard their stories, she paid attention to them, what made them beautiful as individual people. She saw the hidden potential in people that were overlooked by the rest of the world. She found the hidden people, sometimes literally hidden in, you know, these Muslim women who were sequestered away in houses and never, never came out. And she would find a way into their homes and into their hearts, and earn their trust and really, really saw them and they responded to that. And she said, she wrote in her journal once, I'm beginning to see what a work for God it is just loving people, that being the presence of Christ and showing someone how, Christ sees and loves them. That was one of the best forms of evangelism that there is. And so she had an amazing legacy of that was personal. People remembered her people in villages that in the Sahara Desert where she had gone with her camel, you know, caravan and her paint brushes in tow and you know, and sketching the desert landscapes as she went. She would visit these, These towns, that Westerners had never even seen and gotten to know the people. And then 20 years later, she would get to go back to this village and the people still remembered her and remember and would, Would. Would flock to, to see her and to. To joke about her, you know, her the, the mistakes she made in Arabic the last time or the, the sun, the glasses that she had, whatever, they still remembered her. One of the. The houses of women she went, she visited, with a friend. And the friend remembered that she overheard these women saying, no one has ever, ever loved us like this. Like that's what people saw and felt with Lily. They felt seen and loved. And, amongst the many stories that I could tell that we don't have time for, she. In one of these visits, there was a group of teenage boys who were throwing rocks through the window at the missionaries, you know, in the village. And the police arrested them and brought them in front of the missionaries and said, you know, do you want us to. To punish these boys? And she said, just give me one hour with them. So she sat there alone with these teenage boys who'd been throwing rocks at her. And at the end of that hour, one of the teenage boys, accepted Christ and followed her back to Algiers, back to the capital city. And this teenage boy became part of the mission and followed her everywhere and became part of the leaders.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Wow.

Jennifer Trafton: fast forward to, about 20 years ago. This little boy is being. Become an old man. He's still in Algiers. And he was selling Bibles. And a son of American missionary, I'm sorry, I don't know if it was American, but a son of missionaries met this old man and the old man taught him how to pray in Arabic. And that little boy grew up and he is now in England. I spoke with him as part of this book, working with like Muslim.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Oh my goodness. I hate to  cut you off right there. But we are out of time. If you want to know more, get the book. If only we could see and. And learn more about the extraordinary life of Lilias Trotter. I pray the Lord will bless you and keep you and make his face to shine upon you. We'll see you next time. We'd like to thank our sponsors including PreBorn. PreBorn has rescued over 400,000 babies from abortion. And every day their network clinics rescue 200 babies lives. Will you join PreBorn in loving and supporting young moms in crisis? Save a life today. Go to preborn.com/AFR the views and

Jeff Chamblee: opinions expressed in this broadcast may not necessarily reflect those of the American Family association or American Family Radio.