Transcript

Today's Issues continues on AFR with your host, Ed Vitagliano

>> Ed Vitagliano: Today's Issues continues on AFR with your host, Ed Vitagliano. And welcome back, folks, to Today's Issues. Ed Vitagliano sitting in for Tim Wildmon today. I'm joined in studio by Wesley Wildman and Tony Vitagliano. Folks, I hope you, enjoyed that. I know it was, it was the whole segment, with the exception of one baseball metaphor, with Sandy Rios. But I hope you found that to be very encouraging, ah. And inspiring and, uplift your hearts. By the way, we do have an article, at American Family News afn.net on the Rededicate 250. It's an article, article written by Parker Kate May. and it does tell you what happened and what some of the folks who were there had to say. That'[email protected] so hope you appreciated that little, break that we had, with uplifting and encourage, exhortations. and now we're going to bring you down again because Steve Paisley Jordal has come on into the studio.

Steve Martin: Parker Kate is a great addition to American Family Radio

Good morning, Steve.

>> Steve Jordahl: Hey, good morning, everybody. We love, by the way, working with PK, Parker Kate. She's great, A, great writer and a good addition to the team. So you don't hear her on the radio, but she's got a very, important job. She does with us. We're very much a better news organization with her there.

>> Ed Vitagliano: That's why we gave her a little salute for this article. She does. She's an excellent writer. She's fairly, new in terms of being on the, on the staff, although she was, spent a couple of summers, you know, working with,

>> Steve Jordahl: She's a young kid. We have to teach her all kinds of stuff about like, you know, culture, like rock and roll. She doesn't know the bands and brings

>> Tony Vitagliano: the median age down, what, 30 years? Yeah, something like that.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Yeah. That's a pretty old crew we've got right now at afn. A lot of folks, some. Some folks in their early 70s, but those are seasoned people. That's right.

>> Steve Jordahl: So, the future's bright.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Future is bright now. And that is. That is something that we have going for us here at American Family Association, American Family Radio. Lots of young people. And even Tony and Wesley are, They're not the youngest. You know that. We've got people in their 20s.

>> Wesley Wildmon: No, we've moved up to leadership. That means you have to be. You have to be old.

>> Ed Vitagliano: You have to be old. And you want to talk about encouraging encouragement. These are young people. That love Jesus and are dedicated. The story we're going to hear in just a couple of minutes, about a lot of things going on in the body of Christ is a little bit discouraging. These young people are great to have around and they do tease us old folks sometimes. But, I did the same thing when I was growing up, teasing the old folks, you know, about them not being cool. Now I am.

>> Steve Jordahl: What goes around comes around.

>> Ed Vitagliano: That's right.

>> Tony Vitagliano: Yes.

Southern Baptist preacher James Robinson has passed away at 82

>> Ed Vitagliano: All right, a little bit of bittersweet news, at the top, right?

>> Steve Jordahl: Yeah. evangelist James Robinson has passed away. He died at 82 years old. Southern Baptist preacher who you probably heard, according to his obit here that I have in front of me, he preached to more than 20 million people in over 600 citywide crusades. He was endorsed by Billy Graham at the very beginning. it says he recorded more than 2 million decisions for Christ as they track these things. at the urging of evangelist Billy Graham, Robinson founded, and there's no n, I keep wanting to say Robinson, but it's Robison, founded the James Robinson evangelistic association in 1967. He became one of the most popular evangelists in America. he had, a, he delivered a landmark address in 1980 at, the National Affairs Briefing in Dallas. And at the event. I'll just read this paragraph and then let you guys comment. He said, I'm sick and tired of hearing about all the radicals and the perverts and the liberals and the leftists and the communists coming out of the closet. It's time for God's people to come out of the closet, out of the churches and change America. US Ambassador to Israel Mike Huckabee, who at the time served as, served as Robinson's communications director, later said that that rally was the genesis of the Moral Majority movement.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Really?

>> Steve Jordahl: That's what, according, to Mike Huckabee, that's what he said.

>> Ed Vitagliano: I, I, I did not know that. Listen, I, I, I love James Robinson. He was a firebrand. his preaching was no nonsense. He didn't sugarcoat anything. And he was very impactful in my life and amongst a lot of evangelicals and in the Southern Baptist movement. but he was very, I would just say this. He was very transparent. He famously, talked about his struggles and battles with lust. You didn't hear anybody talking about that in the late 60s on into the 70s. And he kind of made it clear that even Christians and ministers, have to fight the same battles everyone else does. And, he was just blunt. He was a blunt person, but was also very compassionate.

>> Steve Jordahl: Didn't Jimmy Carter tell the same thing to Playboy?

>> Ed Vitagliano: He did because. And I think it's because of James Robinson that they asked him that. Yeah, maybe they said, do you struggle with rust, with lust, with. Well, with rust too.

>> Steve Jordahl: We all do that. Struggle with rust.

>> Ed Vitagliano: But. And, and Jimmy. Jimmy co. famously, this was when he was running against Gerald Ford, so before he was president, I think, if I got that right. So listen, we've lost a lot of champions, over the last 10, 20 years, and James Robinson is one of them. Did either you guys know much about James Robinson? He might have been before your time.

>> Wesley Wildmon: I may recognize his, If I were to listen to his sermon, I may recognize his voice. I certainly recognize his name. Yeah, yeah, M. But I was, M1. The one that's closest to him that I listened to regularly was, out of, Memphis, Tennessee, Adrian Rogers Rogers Love worth finding.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Oh yeah, he's. He. He was a prince of preachers. I. I'll just sit here and, and reminisce all day.

>> Steve Jordahl: But that's how we know we're old, you and I.

>> Ed Vitagliano: All right, so he. He passed away and he's gone on to his heavenly, reward. We'll continue to. Continue to lose champions and. And fully expect God to raise up new champions. So.

Steve Grant: Back in 1997, contemporary Christian music was becoming big business

>> Steve Jordahl: All right. Back in 1997, Christian, contemporary Christian music was becoming a big business. that's about the time that worship music started. he started the ccm, as it's called contemporary Christian music genre. Kind of went from the solo, artists to more worship type music. and one of the songs that came along was from a group called Avalon. And it's a song called Testify to Love. And I remember this song is one of my favorite songs of Christian music. It still has the. It still can bring me to tears when I listen to it. Let me just have you listen to just a little bit of the chorus. This is cut 50. I don't know if you guys remember that song or if it rings a bell.

>> Ed Vitagliano: absolutely.

>> Steve Jordahl: Great song.

>> Ed Vitagliano: I had it on my, My playlist.

>> Steve Jordahl: You had had it until when.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Till this morning when you ruined everything for me and I removed it because. What happened, Steve?

>> Steve Jordahl: Well, one of the members of Avalon, they've. Three of the members of Avalon, Melissa, Melissa, Greene, Micah Passens and Ty Herndon have re. Released it. Re recorded a new version of it and released it. And this is the reason years, Ago, Micah Passens came out as homosexual. And the Melissa Greene said the record label came and said what's going to happen with the group? And she says well it's either him or me. I'm not going to take the stage with a gay man and everything. So they kicked him out of the group and he went on. But she has had a change of heart I guess you'd say. she says that this song has always been an anthem about homosexual love. The first line of the song is all the colors of the rainbow. And I never put that together. It never struck me as anything other than a praise song to God and to Jesus. But Melissa Greene is one of these Christians who decided that she knows better than God when it comes to what is right, what is wrong. she actually officiated at a so called wedding between Micah Passens and some dude. and so they re released this and they are acknowledging it that saying that it was always an anthem toward to homosexual love.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Well before I get the take here from you Wesley and Tony, what your take is on it. I'm reading it from an article that appears on Church, Leaders Churchleaders. dot com. I was not familiar with this website. It's a Christian website that has news and other information. But this is what Greene is quoted as saying talking about Micah Passens. Micah never needed to be redeemed. He was always whole and worthy. What he was denied was his rightful place in Avalon, in the song, in a community that claimed to sing about a love big enough to hold him. And So this is a very strange thing. I don't know whether Greene what's her first name? Melissa. I don't know whether she still claims to be a Christian. I guess she does. But what a strange thing to say. Micah never needed to be redeemed. She's talking about his homosexuality. Wesley, this is something that There is this strain within the evangelical community. I never thought I since I got here to afa. It wasn't really my choice. God just I just got interested in the sexual revolution and wrote a lot about the homosexual movement. so much so that I was teasingly around here called quote unquote the homosexual reporter. Okay, so they were joking about, about that. but I, I this goes back to 1996 and 97 when I first got here. I never thought that the issue of homosexuality would become a dividing line in the church because it seemed so clear to me what the Scripture says. But there is this strain amongst people who are pretty well known. Amy Grant, one of them.

>> Wesley Wildmon: Lauren Daigle.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Lauren Daigle. Some of these. Amy Grant explicitly came, came out, hosted newsboys. Yeah. News. Why is this, why is this issue a dividing line in the church where you get well known people like some of the members of this group Avalon, who side against the clear message of Scripture. What's your take on that?

>> Wesley Wildmon: Yeah, I think in some cases it starts with the goal or the idea to not push people away or to alienate people. but this is real quick one here. We don't do that. The Bible does that naturally. You know, it says you're either with Jesus, said you're either with me or you're against me.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Right.

>> Wesley Wildmon: So just the teaching of scripture sufficient. We don't need to feel. Now I'm going to preach for just a second. We don't need to feel. The burden is on us individually whether a person does or doesn't accept Christ now or his message now. Can we be responsible for the fruits of our actions not reflecting Christ and that be a, reason why someone. Yeah, that can be true. But if we do things, if we preach the message or the teaching on homosexuality or any sex outside of marriage the way God designed it, if we teach what the Bible says on that, what we need to do is obviously leave. Let the chips fall where they lay. Trust God with the results. I think what happened was early on in the 90s, the 80s and 90s, that the church was so many people within the church was very responsive to the emotional reaction to a person who's trapped in it. And their response being, well, I'm not going to come to church if you don't accept me. So then we, then we start trying to modify different ways to bridge the gap to get them there as opposed to just continuing to invite them. And if they don't come, they don't come. I'm just giving you a couple analogies of some things that took place that kind of really, that really. but we've all pointed this out before too.

Any, any angle that we come at this issue. We don't compromise on this one issue

Any, any angle that we come at this issue. We don't the church, by and large the same church that of people who compromise on this one issue. They don't take the same philosophical approach to any other sin.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Right.

>> Wesley Wildmon: We know this, we've talked about this for. They won't apply that same, grace, in quotes or love in quotes to someone who is a pedophile. Right. So.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Or a thief.

>> Wesley Wildmon: Or a thief. And you have to get. That's, you know, just.

>> Steve Jordahl: Yeah.

>> Wesley Wildmon: Yeah.

The Protestant church in America has allowed that topic to weaken the church

Anyways, so, back to your question about, you know, how we, how this has happened. That, that's how I would say this has happened over the years. And the, the church in America has allowed that topic to really, weaken the church and, and it. In its influence, quite frankly. And, and that's why the, the Protestant church has had some more, issues. our problems. The Protestant church has a lot of problems, and this is one of them over the last 20 years. And it, and it does, it does cause a problem. Now, you know, full circle here. You can all obviously too, that the Bible does say to. Don't, don't forget the gathering of believers. Don't stop meeting as a church because the church has problems. But when a church is going through a problem, there's. There's problems that a church can go through and it still be a Christian church.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Right.

>> Wesley Wildmon: But there are some issues like this. It's that if you compromise or you're weak on this, it's a, heresy. Heresy church. Yeah.

>> Ed Vitagliano: So heretic.

>> Wesley Wildmon: Yeah. So.

Tony Bennett: Christians should be very careful when creating systems that mirror world

>> Ed Vitagliano: All right, Tony, and then Steve, you're a music person. We'll give you the last word on this. What's your take?

>> Tony Vitagliano: Yeah, real quick. to me, what stands out, what stands out about the story and similar stories that have come up, over the past several years is that Christians have to be very careful when we start to set up systems that mirror, that have a secular counterpart or that mirror a system of the world. and what I mean by that is contemporary Christian music through the 80s and the 90s exploded, and that carried on in the early 2000s also, but really just exploded. And the system that was created to foster contemporary, Christian music was a mirror, so to speak, of a secular counterpart which had existed for decades before. And if you are not careful to, keep Christ and, God's Word at the center of such a system, then you're going to fall prey, to the machinations of the world. It's going to begin to reflect the world more than it's going to begin to reflect the kingdom. And this can be applied to other parts of the church as well. So the same thing will happen if a pastor treats a megachurch like a CEO, like he's a CEO of a business. You're going to lose the influence of the Holy Spirit. You're going to lose the biblical foundation on God's Word and that Jesus is the head of this church and not me. You're going to lose a lot of those principles that, that, that keep a church healthy. And he's going to fall, you know, there's a risk of him falling into sin and you know, the church splitting and other things happen. So this is to me kind of what we're starting to see is the fruits of maybe a system that was a little bit more influenced by the world than we first thought. And I want to plug our own MD Perkins here, at American Family association, who's worked on numerous documentaries recently the Culture Warrior documentary, he researched heavily on that. He's a great writer and he actually wrote a book called Dangerous the Threat of Gay Christianity about this very subject. About how do Christians what, what should be our approach to dealing with the sin of homosexuality and dealing with homosexuals within, not just our own personal lives, but within, more importantly more than the church. How should we deal with this, and handle this. And he obviously you can go out and get the book and read it, but we cannot fall into the trap of we just want to bring them in. You know, we want to reach out to people. But we cannot accept the sin of homosexuality no more than we would accept the sin of adultery or theft or lying. so I encourage people to go out and get that book and it's a great book, will help you feel better prepared to deal with this subject.

>> Ed Vitagliano: It is amazing. Resources afa.net that's right, resources.afa.net Maryland. Perkins is his name. Dangerous Affirmation is the book. By the way. I think this is an award winning book. It's got tons of recommendations from people who are in the midst of this fight from within the cave kingdom.

Always go back to the word of God. Using scripture to validate scripture. Amen. Steve: God values the things that Satan will attack

All right, Steve, you're the music person. You get the last word on this subject.

>> Steve Jordahl: There's so much I could say we could go on forever. But let me. This is the first thing that crossed my mind when we started this discussion is that the things that God values the most are the things that Satan will attack the hardest. And God created man and woman. It's right there in the very first chapter of Genesis. he created them male and female. And that has been one of the targets that Satan has attacked the hardest, down through the years. And so we do need to keep close to God's heart. We need to not be, use scripture. And this book, Dangerous Affirmations has this all throughout the book. Using scripture to validate scripture. God's word will hold up God's word. We don't have to listen to the opinions of a great songwriter. By the way, just because someone can throw lyrics together and rhyme and put a great melody on, it doesn't mean that we need to give them any more authority over theology than we would an athlete that decides, wants to speak on politics. What do they know? They're good at hitting a ball over a fence. and the person, just because they can put words together in a catchy melody. And it is a little different in that we invite it into our church when we sing these songs. But go back to the word of God. Always go back to the word of God.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Amen.

>> Tony Vitagliano: Amen.

Maureen Galindo has been criticized for comments about Jewish Zionists

>> Ed Vitagliano: All right, you got anything you can fit in here to the end? Or, I mean, or I can wax eloquent.

>> Steve Jordahl: yeah, let's talk. I want to talk about Maureen Galindo, who is a Democrat congresswoman, a candidate, for a, ah, seat in Texas. And she has made some very concerning, thing. She said she wants to throw all, Zionists in prison. It sounds like she wants to put all the Jews in a concentration camp.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Now what is a Zionist?

>> Steve Jordahl: A Zionist is someone who believes that Israel, has a right to its country of its own. and a lot of people, us, ah, included, go back to what the scripture says about God's, promise to Abraham and the nation that he would build. But this is what Maureen had to say about if she gets into, She's been criticized for the comments of saying she wants to throw all billionaire Zionists in prison. This was her defense of that statement. Cut 8.

>> Tony Vitagliano: When I say that I want billionaire Zionists in prison, that does not mean, I want Jews in internment camps. So why am I getting a whole bunch of death threats and MAGA insults? Which actually makes sense, I realize like MAGA and Jewish Zionist apparently are the exact same people. they talk the exact same way. And that's because MAGA is developing Christian Zionism. That's how they want to create a religion state in the United States of America is through maga, which. That's the goal of Zionism is to create these white supremacists.

>> Steve Jordahl: I wanted to give us a minute to talk about this because this would take.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Well, Tony, you, You were frowning there.

>> Steve Jordahl: Her name is, Maureen Galindo.

>> Ed Vitagliano: By the way. It was a James Talarico who's also running in Texas. He now he's explicitly Christian, although he's a leftist. Yeah, Christian. But it's odd that a lot

>> Steve Jordahl: of Democrats coming out against her. Yeah, Aoc included.

>> Tony Vitagliano: Yeah, listen, this is what you have to do if you're on the left. You have to, say what you actually mean, which is that you're probably, All right, you slip up and you say something anti semitic. then you have to roll it back and make it now sound not so anti Semitic. So I'm only talking about. I wasn't talking about all Jewish people. I wasn't talking about rounding up Jews and putting them in internment camps. What I was saying was that Jewish billionaire Zionists are actually the problem. And this is that. That, that Babylon B skit or it wasn't Babylon B. It was like. It was a skit where there was a. Actual. A racist person and an anti racist person were talking and they had like the same. Talking the same way about different. The same things. That's leftist. Like, leftist and, ironically enough, far right white supremacist. They would. This lady's views and they would probably line up quite a bit.

>> Wesley Wildmon: Yeah.

>> Steve Jordahl: What?

>> Tony Vitagliano: You mean billionaire, Zionists run everything?

>> Wesley Wildmon: Yeah, I agree with you.

>> Tony Vitagliano: You know, it's just. I don't know.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Well, I will say I'm glad. I'm certainly glad that some Democrats are criticizing her.

>> Tony Vitagliano: Right.

>> Ed Vitagliano: I wonder how deep her views run, though, amongst the, members of the far left. All right, folks, hey, guess what? We're out of time. More great programming directly ahead. We'll be back here, Lord willing, tomorrow.