Rob West: Stewardship isn't a one-time choice. It's a cycle that moves from gratitude to growth to generosity. Hi, I'm Rob West. Gratitude helps us recognize what God has entrusted to us, faithful action helps us develop it, and generosity allows it to bless others. Tim Tassopoulos joins us today to show how that cycle applies to both time and money. And then it's on to your calls at 800-525-7000. That's 800-525-7000. This is Faith & Finance on American Family Radio, biblical wisdom for your financial journey.
Well, I've been looking forward to this conversation. Joining us today is Tim Tassopoulos, former president and chief operating officer of Chick-fil-A. During his decades with the company, Tim helped shape a culture known not only for operational excellence, but also for servant leadership, hospitality, and investing in people. His leadership offers valuable insight into how organizations pursue growth without losing sight of their values or the people they serve. And Tim, what a treat to have you here.
Tim Tassopoulos: Thanks. Delighted to be with you, Rob.
Rob West: Tim, I want to ask you some stories about your time at Chick-fil-A and Truett Cathy. We'll get to that, but let's first tee up this cycle of stewardship. Now, I think it's important—you call it a cycle, not a checklist. So, walk us through this relationship in your mind between gratitude, growth, and generosity.
Tim Tassopoulos: Absolutely. So, first and foremost, I think stewardship starts with the premise God owns it all. And so whether we're talking about gifts or talking about challenges, opportunities, natural abilities, capacities, relationships—we're called to be faithful stewards of all of those. And I believe it is a cycle because this is an ongoing process, and it's actually a way to approach life. And so first and foremost, when you think about all that God grants to us, the gifts that He gives us, we start with gratitude. We need to be grateful for those gifts. And I think it's really important to remember: if you're not grateful, you can't steward well. And of course, stewardship in that sense is managing for God's glory and for future generations. So, we start with gratitude and we're grateful for gifts. And again, that does include challenges and opportunities, not just what we would consider as immediate resources or relationships.
Then the next step is when we're grateful for those gifts, then we can focus on growing those gifts. And so, again, whether it's the gift of relationships or the gift of opportunity, we want to multiply, we want to grow those gifts, and we want to do it not for our own self, but for the service of others. And ultimately, we have to remember especially how important learning is to that growth cycle. And one of the things that I think is really important in stewardship is: the more we learn, the more we can contribute. So, we start with gratitude, then we want to grow those gifts that we're grateful for, and then ultimately we want to be generous with those gifts.
And that's really about sharing the fruit from the gifts that have been multiplied. That generosity—so often we think of it as generosity financially, but it's really generosity of spirit, it's generosity of time, it's generosity of relationships, generosity of what we have learned when we get to share that with others. So, when we do that, that generosity, I believe, opens the door for us to be grateful for that opportunity to be generous, and that just cycles right back to start that cycle of stewardship over again.
Rob West: Incredible. And you saw this play out at Chick-fil-A time and time again, starting with Truett, didn't you?
Tim Tassopoulos: Absolutely. You know, Truett was such a model of faithful stewardship. First of all, it's totally encoded in the corporate purpose of Chick-fil-A, which was penned in the early 1980s at a time of real crisis in the business. And the leaders of Chick-fil-A came together and decided, in the midst of a business crisis, to step back and ask the most important questions: "Why are we in business?" And that group penned the corporate purpose, and it really reflected Truett's philosophy of business up to that point. But the corporate purpose hasn't changed a word since: "To glorify God by being a faithful steward of all that's entrusted to us, and to have a positive influence on all who come in contact with Chick-fil-A."
And so you see from that statement—of course, it has nothing to do with the number of sandwiches sold or the number of restaurants opened—it really is, everything about that statement is an others-focused statement. The why? Well, we're focused on glorifying God. We're focused on faithful stewardship. It's not to our benefit, but managing that which He blesses us with for others. And then ultimately, positive influence is about impacting others as well.
Rob West: Wow. There is so much there, and we really want to unpack this a bit more. But you're right, it's a virtuous cycle, and when we get to the end and we're generous, it goes right back to the beginning so we can be grateful for what we have. Tim Tassopoulos is here today. We're going to unpack a bit more this cycle of stewardship right after the break, and then we'll be taking your questions as well. This is Faith & Finance. I'm Rob West, he's Tim Tassopoulos, and we'll be right back with much more after this break. Stay with us.
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Rob West: Stewardship begins with gratitude, grows through faithful action, and comes full circle in generosity. Today, we're talking about the cycle of stewardship with Tim Tassopoulos, former president and chief operating officer of Chick-fil-A. And Tim, I want to go back and unpack each of these. Let's start with gratitude. You know, one of the pitfalls of the rich fool in scripture in Luke 12 is that he saw everything as his. I think he says "I" and "my" about my grain and my barns like nine times in two verses. And this is a big idea: that we start by just being grateful for what we have, which requires us to understand that it wasn't ours, it was entrusted to us, right?
Tim Tassopoulos: Exactly. And to your point about referencing scripture, even Matthew 25:14–30, the parable of the talents, one of the key differentiators between the first and second servant and the third servant was gratitude.
Rob West: Yes.
Tim Tassopoulos: The first and second were grateful for the gifts, even though the gifts were different between the two of them. And the third servant was clearly ungrateful. And again, you can't steward what you're ungrateful for. It's very difficult to make that happen.
Rob West: What do you think that rhythm of gratitude looks like? Because we've got to be intentional about that or it won't happen.
Tim Tassopoulos: I do believe it actually should start with the daily discipline of how do we start our day, how do we view all the gifts that are given to us. I believe it's, of course, starts with prayer and scripture. But it really is beginning to say, "I'm grateful," in a "count our blessings" kind of way each and every day. And again, I think so often when we think about blessings, we start with health or relationship. But actually, I think we've got to broaden the sense of gifts. And again, I think sometimes it's challenges and opportunities that need to be top of mind, not just simply maybe some good finances at the moment or good health at the moment.
Rob West: Yeah, that's well said. Let's move to growth. Growth, of course, creates margin and impact. But you made a statement there just before the break—you said that when we're growing the gifts that God has entrusted to us, it requires that we be a learner. I'd love for you to apply that in your own life. What has that looked like for you to be a lifelong learner?
Tim Tassopoulos: So, first and foremost, I think you have to make a conscious decision that you do want to learn. You have to remember: you've got to be humble. No humility, no growth. I mean, it's just a fundamental principle. And the reason that I describe it as humility is you've got to acknowledge: "I don't know it all, I can learn, and I can grow." And so, it's just very, very powerful to base your platform of growth on humility. And then you have to invest the time and the energy and effort for that learning to take place.
And whether it's the books you read, the people that you associate with and that you're mentored by—famous basketball coach John Wooden, the legend, used to always say, "Everything we've learned, we learned from somebody else." And so, I think you have to be open to input from others, and then it impacts your experience, and then you reflect on your experience, and then you can continue to learn and grow. So, I've got lifetime practices of learning, and those have been very helpful to me over time.
Rob West: I know I've read about something you have that you call "library days." I think this is brilliant, and it's actually a practice you increased when you stepped into the role of president at Chick-fil-A. Tell us about that.
Tim Tassopoulos: Sure. So, Dan Cathy and others at Chick-fil-A had sort of set the example for pulling away and having time of reflection, and I picked up that habit and I got to be very consistent with it. And so, throughout my career at Chick-fil-A, when my assistant and I would work on my calendar, one of the things we would put in first is a day a month at a public library. And why a public library? Well, it couldn't be in a Chick-fil-A restaurant or it couldn't be at the Chick-fil-A Support Center, but instead I chose a public library because you can't use your cell phone in the public library. And so it's easier to not be distracted that way.
But it would be a time that I would have some things to study, I would have a review of my calendar and some key activities, and then I'd look ahead the next 90 days. And so, it was a time of restoration, it was a time of reflection, and then a time of refocusing. And so, they became invaluable to me. And you did mention about—I was very blessed and honored to serve as the president of Chick-fil-A, and the day it was announced to the Chick-fil-A family that the Cathy family and the Chick-fil-A Board of Directors asked me to step into that role, I knew my time pressures were going to go up tremendously.
And so I went to my assistant and I said, "You know, every hour is going to matter more now because of the challenges from a time standpoint. I need to plan more, so I'm going to add a second library day." Which is sort of counterintuitive when you think about it. It's like, "I'm going to have more time pressure now, I'm going to spend more time away." But I think it did help me in terms of my effectiveness, but at least it gave me confidence that I was trying to refocus on a consistent basis.
Rob West: That is powerful. So, we're grateful, we then grow these gifts that God has entrusted to us, and then we're generous. And this is something that is just hardwired into Chick-fil-A organizationally. I know it's true about the Cathys as well—Truett modeled that from day one. And that's what I love about what we're talking about here: this isn't theory. You saw this lived out in their lives personally as a family, didn't you?
Tim Tassopoulos: Oh, there's no question about it. And when you think about generosity, again, it does start with generosity of spirit. There is a sense of "we want to share inspiration with others," that inspiration that comes from us being inspired, having the Spirit within us, and then sharing that with others. It is generosity of time, and so often that can get overlooked when we think about generosity. But serving in so many ways, which of course the Cathy family does over and over and over again—whether through WinShape and other entities like Lifeshape that members of the Cathy family sponsor.
And then you've got an amazing impact when that generosity is generosity of investment—first and foremost, development of others. And so, there's power in mentoring, there's power in developing future leaders. That's all through the DNA of Chick-fil-A, the Cathy family again reflecting Truett, who always did that himself. And then lastly, it's generosity of finances. And it's hard to find a major project across both Christendom and specifically here in the city of Atlanta, which is Chick-fil-A's home, that Chick-fil-A's resources and the Cathys family's resources have not impacted.
Rob West: Yeah, that is so true. I know I've heard you talk about Truett's "10-10-10" approach. Tell us about that.
Tim Tassopoulos: Well, you know, Truett just exemplified the idea of stewardship. And so often he would talk about finances in this simple formula. He would say: "Give 10%, save 10%, and work 10% harder." And he always said it in that order, and that clearly impacted me as I think about use of finances. But the idea that no matter what you make, you want to start with your giving, and then again, as little or as much as you make, that you do save, and of course that's saving for not only today, but also for the future.
And then working 10% harder—that was always an encouragement to make sure that, as Truett would say, "Why not your best?" And so he was encouraging and challenging us to give our very best. I will also say, one thing you can't separate from Truett is his life verse that he said over and over and over again: Proverbs 22:1, "A good name is rather to be chosen than great riches." And you know, he clearly lived that out, where his good name and the good name of Chick-fil-A mattered, and it mattered more than silver or gold.
Rob West: Wow. Yeah, his priorities were right. And embedded in the organization with that 10% of work harder is really the extra mile service that Chick-fil-A is known for, isn't it?
Tim Tassopoulos: That's right. Second mile service—you take that straight from Matthew 5:41 and the idea of, when asked to go one mile, go the second mile. And Chick-fil-A restaurant team members, Chick-fil-A owner-operators, and staff members all across now not just the country, but even around the world, do take that opportunity. When a customer says "thank you," that we say, "my pleasure."
Rob West: Incredible. Tim, we've just scratched the surface. We're going to have to have you back, but this has been a lot of fun. Thanks for reminding us that stewardship begins with gratitude, moves to growth, and ultimately leads to generosity. We appreciate your time.
Tim Tassopoulos: Thanks for having me.
Rob West: Folks, that's Tim Tassopoulos, former president and chief operating officer of Chick-fil-A. All right, we're going to take a quick break, and then we'll be back with your questions at 800-525-7000. That's 800-525-7000. Or if you'd prefer to email your question, send it to us at [email protected]. Stick around.
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Rob West: What a treat that my friend Tim Tassopoulos was with us in those first couple of segments to hear his cycle of stewardship and some of the inside stories from his time leading Chick-fil-A as president, working alongside Truett Cathy, Dan Cathy, the entire Cathy family, which is just doing some incredible work. As you know, they're in the chicken sandwich business, but it is so much more than that, as you know. They have led with this mindset of stewardship. In fact, it's right there in their mission statement, their core values, how they serve and lead. Just the fact that they're closed on Sunday. Interestingly, that's about 13% of their operating week. If you know anything about fast food, you know Sunday is often the most profitable day of the week.
And yet, Chick-fil-A stores, last I heard, do about, on average, about $9 million per store per year in revenue. The next highest is a popular chain that you would know well, McDonald's, and that's in the $3 to $4 million range. So think about that: closed on perhaps the most profitable day of the week, 13% less than their competitors, and yet they're 2 to 3x the revenue. I think it just says something about what it looks like to manage God's money God's way and operate from biblical principles. Certainly an exciting and interesting story, but just so grateful for the wisdom Tim shared today.
Well, we want to turn the corner and address the questions you have in your financial life. This program each day is really about helping you manage money as a steward of God's resources. Yeah, I share my thoughts with you from time to time, and we have incredible guests opine on biblical principles. We always go back to God's word, but we want you to be the star of the show as we have the opportunity to lean into your questions. So we'll do that here in just a moment. We do have lines open if you have a question today. Call right now: 800-525-7000. That's 800-525-7000. You can call right now.
In the news today, US Treasury yields rose with long-term borrowing costs reaching their highest levels in nearly two decades as investors weighed growing government debt, persistent inflation, and renewed tensions in the Middle East. The 30-year Treasury yield climbed above 5.3%, hitting a 19-year high. The benchmark 10-year yield was near 4.7%, while the 2-year hovered around 4.2%. The move comes after the US budget deficit jumped to more than $432 billion in July, bringing the fiscal year shortfall to nearly $1.8 trillion. Interest costs on nearly $40 trillion in national debt have reached about $1.2 trillion this year.
Investors are also watching inflation. While recent price data has shown some improvement, inflation remains above the Federal Reserve's 2% target. Of course, rising oil prices amid renewed US-Iran tensions are adding to concerns that price pressures could persist. Bond yields have also moved higher overseas, with long-term rates in Japan and parts of Europe reaching multi-year highs as well. For consumers, the takeaway is simple: if Treasury yields stay elevated, borrowing costs on mortgages, auto loans, and other debts could remain higher for longer, but you will be rewarded on the savings side. Bob Doll will be along in our final segment today to check in with us with his weekly update on the markets. We'll get his take on this budget deficit and debt as well. That's coming up in our final segment.
In the meantime, let's dive into your questions today. We're going to begin in Texas. Lee, go right ahead, sir.
Lee: Thank you, Rob, for taking my call. The ladies that took my call were really sweet, and I appreciate that. One quick question about that interview prior to that: You know, I remember as a kid, on Sundays, there were hardly any stores open on Sundays. You know, and that's the way it was, you know? But anyway, my question's about when I should retire. Okay? I'm 63. I currently work. I've got a nest egg, you know, as far as Roth, 401(k), etc. All I have left is my house. And frankly, I'm just, like I was telling the lady before, I'm getting tired of working, you know? And so, anyway, I was just curious of your take and how you would look at it, basically.
Rob West: Yes. So, have you already retired, Lee, at this point?
Lee: No, no, I'm still working.
Rob West: Okay, got it. Yeah. So, you know, at the end of the day, when to claim Social Security benefits is a really important question. As you probably know, you can take it as early as 62, but that's going to permanently reduce the monthly benefit. Waiting beyond full retirement age, conversely, will increase it through those delayed retirement credits of about 8% a year. So if you wait until age 70—and you wouldn't wait past that because those delayed credits stop at age 70—you could get a check about 25% higher than what you would have received at full retirement age.
If you're still working, which you are, before full retirement age, and you were to take Social Security, obviously that earnings test could temporarily—and that's an important distinction—withhold some of the benefits if you exceed the annual limit. You'd eventually get that back in the form of a higher check.
But I would say, just as a general rule of thumb, you don't want to automatically claim just because you're eligible. If you can comfortably live on your employment income and other resources and delay that Social Security, that's going to provide that larger guaranteed monthly benefit, and then the cost-of-living increases on top of that larger benefit are also going to be elevated. Also, a lot of folks will consider your spouse as well. If you're married, you want to consider both spouses' benefits, ages, health, longevity, and survivor's benefits. Often, you want to maximize the higher earner's benefit because that can also improve the eventual survivor benefit. And us guys are, on average, going to predecease our wives, and if you happen to have that higher benefit, you delaying that benefit would ultimately benefit her, as she's only collecting the higher of the benefits, which would be yours at that elevated level.
So, just as a rule of thumb, it's going to take you about 12 years to be repaid if you were to wait from full retirement age until age 70 to be repaid for those three years you gave up where you hadn't received any benefits. But then after age roughly 82, you would have been repaid for all that you gave up, and then you'd enjoy that higher check of 24-25% for the rest of your life, which is going to offset your biggest risk in that season, which is longevity risk—that you would outlive your money.
I have a few more thoughts. I want to get your follow-up after the break. Stay right there.
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Rob West: Great to have you with us today on Faith & Finance here on American Family Radio. Lines are open taking your questions today, 800-525-7000. Before the break, we were talking to Lee in Texas. He's 63, working full-time. He's getting kind of to the end of his working career in the sense that he's tired, ready to slow down, thinking about a change of pace and perhaps what God has next, and just wondering about Social Security and how to prepare. And I was sharing some of the thoughts around, you know, how you think through when to take it and the benefits of waiting. You know, I think a good framework in terms of your options at this point, Lee, would be number one, you know, claim at 63. You'd start Social Security, your benefit would be permanently reduced because you're claiming early. And then if you continue to work full-time, you'd have that earnings test and you'd have that temporary reduction. The second option is you retire now, but delay Social Security. And if you have enough savings, you could stop working without immediately claiming Social Security. But ultimately, you know, that's going to come down to what you have saved and perhaps seeing your savings and retirement accounts as a temporary bridge to allow your benefits to grow. The third option is wait until full retirement age. The earnings test ends and you'd at least maximize what you had coming. And then finally, wait until 70 where it would grow by about, you know, 24% higher than full retirement age, but you'd have to, you know, wait about 12 years to be repaid and then you'd have that higher check for the rest of your life. So give me your thoughts on that and then give me a sense of if you did retire and delayed Social Security, you know, what would that mean in terms of the income sources you'd have and the assets you'd have to be able to access to be able to support your lifestyle.
Lee: Well, I mean, you know, I don't understand, honestly, I just I don't understand. If I was to continue to work when I was at the age that I am now, and I waited, you know, say two years, I mean, why not go ahead and wait, you know, for two years instead of it being at that 63 age and losing, you know, losing that extra money? Or would I?
Rob West: Oh, I agree. Yeah. So you're going to have a permanent reduction for each month you take it before full retirement age, which is 67. So you'd have a pretty steep, you know, permanent reduction on that benefit if you were to take it at 63. And I would agree. I would encourage you not to do that. I would either continue to work or use retirement assets—which we haven't talked about what you have saved—but, you know, perhaps look at that as a bridge to get to full retirement age.
Lee: Yeah. I, you know, we have over a, we have over a million in savings and, and, you know, we've, we've done, we've done our due diligence in that area. And, so the biggest issue, we don't have any bills other than our house note currently. And so the house is supposed to be done in 20, 2032 is when the house note is supposed to be finished. Got it. So, if I retire at 67, that's 2030, you know. And it's like, you know, I've always planned, my plan was to have that house paid off. It's just something about it. But, you know, if I can't make it, you know, it's weird. You feel your body going downhill.
Rob West: Yes, sir.
Lee: You know, and it makes you think about things, right?
Rob West: Absolutely.
Lee: And that's just part of, and that's just part of it. You know, but thank the Lord that I listen to His precepts in His Word, you know, and I don't have to worry about, you know, do I have enough money as far as retirement's concerned, you know? So I'm thankful for that.
Rob West: Yeah, well, I couldn't agree more and you've heeded these principles and you're enjoying the fruit of that. And I would say you're exactly right in terms of, you know, the opportunity you have. If you were to be able to, let's say, sync everything up to 2030 if, you know, you would have the physical stamina to continue until then, you know, you could run an amortization schedule on that mortgage on any free mortgage calculator online to be able to say, "Okay, how much extra would I need to send per month or per year to be able to shorten that payoff by two years so that you hit full retirement age at the same moment your biggest expense comes out?" And based on the fact that you're living modestly, you all would need very little, you know, to live on at that point. And you'd have, you know, now let me call it three more years of additional savings and growth. And you'd be maximizing at least your full retirement age benefit. That may be the sweet spot of everything, you know, if you guys were to add a little bit more to that principal reduction each month.
Lee: Right. So hypothetical for you. Say, say if I did, if I worked to 2030 and that's retirement, retirement age, and I still had say 30, $30,000 or $40,000 left on the house note, okay? Would you continue to pay it through retirement? If I retired, would you continue to pay for it out of, you know, your moneys that you're getting from Social Security, your investments, etc., or would you just pay it off and save the interest that's left?
Rob West: Yeah, it's a good question. What is the interest rate?
Lee: Well, 2.5%.
Rob West: Yeah, so I wouldn't be in a rush. I mean, you know, a lot of that will come down to if you had enough in savings that you had a fully funded emergency fund, whatever that is for you—you know, maybe that's 6 months, maybe it's as much as a year—and you had additional money, and when we got to 2030, let's say interest rates were much lower than they are today, it might make sense. But in today's environment, it doesn't make any sense for you to pay that off unless you just have a conviction to do that. I would just continue to pay it off out of monthly cash flow and just ride that 2.5% very low-interest rate mortgage. Now, I suspect, just given the way you all live, you know, you could add enough on a monthly or annual basis so that you don't even have the $20,000 or $30,000 if you set your mind to it. But if you did, I would just pay it out of current cash flow unless interest rates were, you know, way down, even below your mortgage interest rate. But even then, I don't know that it's worth, you know, the savings to give up that liquidity if you don't have to.
Lee: Sure. Yeah, understood. We just, you know, we feel pretty good right now physically, and we just took the—I broke my back years ago, five years ago, and it just scared us, right? You know, and so we talked, we said, "You know, honey, we've scraped and saved all our lives, and we put things off. And let's go ahead and do some of those things now while we're physically able, right, instead of waiting until, you know, we're 70s and we can't go and do those things."
Rob West: Yes. Yeah, that's exactly right. I'm sorry, I think I lost you there, but are you back with us?
Lee: Yeah, I'm back. I said that's the path we're taking, you know, so.
Rob West: Yeah, very good. Well, listen, Lee, so thankful to have you on the program today, sir. It sounds like you've got a great plan. You're a living testimony to when you apply these principles and you do it over a long period of time and you live modestly, you see the fruit of that. And, you know, that's what we talk about each day on this program. Does that mean you won't have challenges along the way? Absolutely not. You're going to have plenty of challenges. We live in a fallen world, but we do our best to live within God's provision, with contentment. We understand He owns it all, we're stewards, and we work hard. And remember, that's part of God's design, is that we were to be workers before the Fall. Before sin entered the world, we were created in God's image, a worker, to be workers, to co-create with Him. Except He creates out of nothing, we create out of His creation, and we order it and we improve it and we put it to work. And we work with the sweat of our brow. And when we do that, we experience human flourishing, and we contribute to the overall blessing of mankind. And that's the way it should be. And that's why when we cease all productive work, our health declines, and I think we lose some joy in the process because that's not a part of God's plan. But you can transition to what God has next for you and use your wisdom and experience to love and serve others. Thanks for your call, Lee. We'll be right back.
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Rob West: Thanks for joining us today on Faith & Finance here on American Family Radio. I'm Rob West. Just a moment, Bob Doll will be with us. We'll get Bob's update on the markets. The market's selling off today modestly, under some pressure by bond yields. We talked about that at the top of the program, and oil prices. We'll get Bob's take on all of that straight ahead. But first, David in Iowa. David, you've been waiting very patiently. Go ahead, sir.
David: Hi Rob. Hey, thank you for taking my call. I spoke to you a few months back, and I was going up to Alaska to work on a job. Yeah. Well, I thought I'd give you an update. I was really hoping that I was going to come back and tell you that I got my entire debt paid off, but things slowed down up there a little bit, and so I didn't get to where I wanted to, but I still have my plan B. I'm back in Iowa working, and so in two months we paid off about $15,000 in credit card debt, and...
Rob West: Wow. Well done.
David: Yeah, so it was really worth it. And I still have about 14 to go. And if I stay with my plan... My boss is a Christian guy, and he told me, he said, "Dave, come back. We'll help you get..." You know, he's got plenty of work that I can get be very aggressive paying off the rest of that. So, my goal is to do it by the end of the year. That's a pretty aggressive goal, but that's my goal to get that paid off. And then, you did recommend... Yes?
Rob West: I'm sorry, finish your thought. No, no, go ahead.
David: Oh, okay. Well, you did recommend that we start working on building that emergency fund, and I got about $1,000, so I didn't get that built as much as I could, so... I guess, what's the best way to proceed forward here, do you think? I had mentioned to you about you've got your debt relief plan that you mention on the radio a lot. Would it make sense to go through that, or if I can pay this off fast enough, do I continue that? That's really what I kind of want to do. So, yeah. What would be your thoughts on that?
Rob West: Yeah. Well, first of all, well done. You know, even though you didn't get quite where you wanted to be, congrats on paying that $15,000 in credit card debt down. That's a big deal. I love that you're going to stay focused on it, even though things didn't materialize exactly the way you expected. What's the balance remaining at this point, David?
David: We're at about 14, a little under $15,000. $14,500, somewhere around there.
Rob West: All right. And where is the money going to come from if you are able to pay it off by year-end?
David: Well, I've reached full retirement age. I took early retirement for... And so, that's part of the reason we built up some debt is you get penalized if you, you know, you make too much money. So, I can work full-time now, so that's really my plan is I'm just going to try and until that debt's paid off, I'm just going to work full-time and pour as much as I possibly can into paying off that debt, which I'm hoping is between $1,500 and $2,000 a month.
Rob West: Okay, but that's not going to get it done by the end of the year. I mean, we're basically talking four months. You'd need $3,500 a month in order to hit $14,000. So, is it more realistic to think it might be, you know, middle of next year before you have this paid off?
David: It's more realistic probably to think about March.
Rob West: March, yeah. Okay. Well, here's what I would do. Yeah, I mean, I like the fact that you've got the $1,000 in emergencies. I might try to add $500 more to that, but then I'd freeze it right there. You know, the reason we want something there is we want to break the cycle of the borrowing, and so you've got something to fall back on. We'll get that up to three to six months' expenses when the debt is gone.
But I think a six-month runway, maybe nine months if things don't go quite as expected, is long enough for you to go ahead and put this with Christian Credit Counselors, because you can prepay it even though you're on the program. You're just going to get a lower interest rate while you're doing it. And this is enough debt that, you know, with you somewhere between 22 and 30% on those interest rates, you know, let's go ahead and get that down to between 0 and 10.
So, I'd reach out to christiancreditcounselors.org. They'll get you set up on a credit counseling program, they'll drop the interest rates, they'll give you one monthly payment. But don't just automatically settle into the payment they give you. Let's stay focused on getting this paid off, you know, between three and six months from now, and, you know, you'll be in a whole new position here. You can build up your emergency fund, and then you can redirect all that toward long-term savings and investments.
David: Okay. Well, I tell you what I'm going to do, too. I'm going to keep I'll keep you updated on what's going on, because you've been a real blessing. Your show has been a real blessing to me, and, you know, I don't feel guilty. I feel convicted that this is something that God is saying, "You need to get this taken care of." And that's how I know that your show is God-ordained.
Rob West: Well, thank you. I'll tell you, it's not about wagging fingers at anybody, because we all make mistakes along the way. We're all just trying to answer the question, "What is the next faithful step?" Based on where we are today, what does faithfulness look like right now? And what is that next faithful step that I can take? And you're doing it. You're living within your contentment, you're working hard, you're prioritizing the right things, getting out of debt, saving, honoring the Lord in that, recognizing He owns it all. And even the ability to earn money comes from Him, Deuteronomy 8:18 tells us.
So, well done, David. Stay at it. You're going to do this. And yeah, keep us posted. I'd love to be able to celebrate with you when you get to the end of this. God bless you, my friend. Thanks for calling today and checking in.
Rob West: Well, Bob Doll is here. Lots to talk about. Bob, at the top of the program, you know, I was talking about just these long-term and medium-term and even short-term Treasury yields up at, you know, 19-year highs. What is the significance of that?
Bob Doll: Well, first of all, the reason it's happening, as you know, Rob, you cited it earlier, it's concerns about inflation, it's concerns about oil prices, concerns about the federal debt level. And so, interest rates have been creeping higher. And what it means is it's a higher return for a new fixed-income investor. It also means for people who need and want to borrow money for things, it's costing more, and that generally has a slowing effect on activity.
Rob West: Yeah, no doubt about it. Bob, you know, the budget deficit, I know the latest read out was $432 billion in July. I think the fiscal year shortfall is going to be at nearly $2 trillion, which puts us up at nearly $40 trillion total, with the numbers I saw say that the interest on that is over a trillion dollars a year.
I mean, we started with President Trump's second term here with DOGE kind of at the front and forefront of everything, and this idea we were going to cut budgets and cut wasteful spending, and now here we are. Why is that? Is it just, you know, a function of Washington and the gravitational pull, or something else?
Bob Doll: Yeah, it's all of the above. It's a lot easier for a politician to spend money than to trim a program, because you trim a program, you're trimming someone's largesse, as it were. And you add a program or you increase a program, you're making somebody feel good, and they want and need to get re-elected every two, four, and six years. And so, our system is just geared to that, and it will take a crisis before we actually get serious about paying down our debt and dealing with it, and we're not there yet. You and I can talk about it, listeners can complain about it, but it's not affecting anybody significantly. That's why we do nothing about it.
Rob West: Bob, is that something that's 10 years away, longer, shorter? What's your best guess on when we might need to really deal with this because a crisis is looming?
Bob Doll: Yeah, so I don't think it's going to be one day we wake up and today's the day. It's going to be a slow process, and we're already seeing some of it. I gave one of the reasons interest rates are moving up: the debt level. It's becoming a huge issue. You just cited the numbers: $40 trillion in debt, a trillion dollars just to pay the interest. That's scary.
Rob West: It sure is. Yeah. Bob, last thoughts just on where we're at with this market right now.
Bob Doll: So, look, I think the market's been amazing the last few years, year-to-date it's done well, and now it's struggling a little bit here in the last few days, struggling again today. And look, if interest rates don't stop going up, if oil prices keep going up, it's going to be hard to see the stock market turning around and running up to new highs. On the other hand, earnings continue great, and as a result, I don't know that we have to worry about some big bear market in front of us. So, we're just taking a little pause after all the wonderful news we've seen.
Rob West: All right. Bob, appreciate your thoughts as always, my friend.
Bob Doll: All the best. Bye-bye.
Rob West: All right. That's Bob Doll. He's CEO and CIO at Crossmark Global Investments. If you want to learn more, head over to crossmarkglobal.com.
Mike in Tennessee, I apologize we didn't get to your question today on your grandkids and investing and perhaps the Trump accounts. Let's see if we can get you scheduled to be first up tomorrow. I'd love to tackle that question. I know a lot of folks out there, parents and grandparents, wondering, "Is the Trump account a great way to save? What about other options, 529s and other tools?" I'd love to weigh into that, and so the team will see if we can get you scheduled for tomorrow's broadcast.
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Rob West: Stewardship isn't a one-time choice. It's a cycle that moves from gratitude to growth to generosity. Hi, I'm Rob West. Gratitude helps us recognize what God has entrusted to us, faithful action helps us develop it, and generosity allows it to bless others. Tim Tassopoulos joins us today to show how that cycle applies to both time and money. And then it's on to your calls at 800-525-7000. That's 800-525-7000. This is Faith & Finance on American Family Radio, biblical wisdom for your financial journey.
Well, I've been looking forward to this conversation. Joining us today is Tim Tassopoulos, former president and chief operating officer of Chick-fil-A. During his decades with the company, Tim helped shape a culture known not only for operational excellence, but also for servant leadership, hospitality, and investing in people. His leadership offers valuable insight into how organizations pursue growth without losing sight of their values or the people they serve. And Tim, what a treat to have you here.
Tim Tassopoulos: Thanks. Delighted to be with you, Rob.
Rob West: Tim, I want to ask you some stories about your time at Chick-fil-A and Truett Cathy. We'll get to that, but let's first tee up this cycle of stewardship. Now, I think it's important—you call it a cycle, not a checklist. So, walk us through this relationship in your mind between gratitude, growth, and generosity.
Tim Tassopoulos: Absolutely. So, first and foremost, I think stewardship starts with the premise God owns it all. And so whether we're talking about gifts or talking about challenges, opportunities, natural abilities, capacities, relationships—we're called to be faithful stewards of all of those. And I believe it is a cycle because this is an ongoing process, and it's actually a way to approach life. And so first and foremost, when you think about all that God grants to us, the gifts that He gives us, we start with gratitude. We need to be grateful for those gifts. And I think it's really important to remember: if you're not grateful, you can't steward well. And of course, stewardship in that sense is managing for God's glory and for future generations. So, we start with gratitude and we're grateful for gifts. And again, that does include challenges and opportunities, not just what we would consider as immediate resources or relationships.
Then the next step is when we're grateful for those gifts, then we can focus on growing those gifts. And so, again, whether it's the gift of relationships or the gift of opportunity, we want to multiply, we want to grow those gifts, and we want to do it not for our own self, but for the service of others. And ultimately, we have to remember especially how important learning is to that growth cycle. And one of the things that I think is really important in stewardship is: the more we learn, the more we can contribute. So, we start with gratitude, then we want to grow those gifts that we're grateful for, and then ultimately we want to be generous with those gifts.
And that's really about sharing the fruit from the gifts that have been multiplied. That generosity—so often we think of it as generosity financially, but it's really generosity of spirit, it's generosity of time, it's generosity of relationships, generosity of what we have learned when we get to share that with others. So, when we do that, that generosity, I believe, opens the door for us to be grateful for that opportunity to be generous, and that just cycles right back to start that cycle of stewardship over again.
Rob West: Incredible. And you saw this play out at Chick-fil-A time and time again, starting with Truett, didn't you?
Tim Tassopoulos: Absolutely. You know, Truett was such a model of faithful stewardship. First of all, it's totally encoded in the corporate purpose of Chick-fil-A, which was penned in the early 1980s at a time of real crisis in the business. And the leaders of Chick-fil-A came together and decided, in the midst of a business crisis, to step back and ask the most important questions: "Why are we in business?" And that group penned the corporate purpose, and it really reflected Truett's philosophy of business up to that point. But the corporate purpose hasn't changed a word since: "To glorify God by being a faithful steward of all that's entrusted to us, and to have a positive influence on all who come in contact with Chick-fil-A."
And so you see from that statement—of course, it has nothing to do with the number of sandwiches sold or the number of restaurants opened—it really is, everything about that statement is an others-focused statement. The why? Well, we're focused on glorifying God. We're focused on faithful stewardship. It's not to our benefit, but managing that which He blesses us with for others. And then ultimately, positive influence is about impacting others as well.
Rob West: Wow. There is so much there, and we really want to unpack this a bit more. But you're right, it's a virtuous cycle, and when we get to the end and we're generous, it goes right back to the beginning so we can be grateful for what we have. Tim Tassopoulos is here today. We're going to unpack a bit more this cycle of stewardship right after the break, and then we'll be taking your questions as well. This is Faith & Finance. I'm Rob West, he's Tim Tassopoulos, and we'll be right back with much more after this break. Stay with us.
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Rob West: Stewardship begins with gratitude, grows through faithful action, and comes full circle in generosity. Today, we're talking about the cycle of stewardship with Tim Tassopoulos, former president and chief operating officer of Chick-fil-A. And Tim, I want to go back and unpack each of these. Let's start with gratitude. You know, one of the pitfalls of the rich fool in scripture in Luke 12 is that he saw everything as his. I think he says "I" and "my" about my grain and my barns like nine times in two verses. And this is a big idea: that we start by just being grateful for what we have, which requires us to understand that it wasn't ours, it was entrusted to us, right?
Tim Tassopoulos: Exactly. And to your point about referencing scripture, even Matthew 25:14–30, the parable of the talents, one of the key differentiators between the first and second servant and the third servant was gratitude.
Rob West: Yes.
Tim Tassopoulos: The first and second were grateful for the gifts, even though the gifts were different between the two of them. And the third servant was clearly ungrateful. And again, you can't steward what you're ungrateful for. It's very difficult to make that happen.
Rob West: What do you think that rhythm of gratitude looks like? Because we've got to be intentional about that or it won't happen.
Tim Tassopoulos: I do believe it actually should start with the daily discipline of how do we start our day, how do we view all the gifts that are given to us. I believe it's, of course, starts with prayer and scripture. But it really is beginning to say, "I'm grateful," in a "count our blessings" kind of way each and every day. And again, I think so often when we think about blessings, we start with health or relationship. But actually, I think we've got to broaden the sense of gifts. And again, I think sometimes it's challenges and opportunities that need to be top of mind, not just simply maybe some good finances at the moment or good health at the moment.
Rob West: Yeah, that's well said. Let's move to growth. Growth, of course, creates margin and impact. But you made a statement there just before the break—you said that when we're growing the gifts that God has entrusted to us, it requires that we be a learner. I'd love for you to apply that in your own life. What has that looked like for you to be a lifelong learner?
Tim Tassopoulos: So, first and foremost, I think you have to make a conscious decision that you do want to learn. You have to remember: you've got to be humble. No humility, no growth. I mean, it's just a fundamental principle. And the reason that I describe it as humility is you've got to acknowledge: "I don't know it all, I can learn, and I can grow." And so, it's just very, very powerful to base your platform of growth on humility. And then you have to invest the time and the energy and effort for that learning to take place.
And whether it's the books you read, the people that you associate with and that you're mentored by—famous basketball coach John Wooden, the legend, used to always say, "Everything we've learned, we learned from somebody else." And so, I think you have to be open to input from others, and then it impacts your experience, and then you reflect on your experience, and then you can continue to learn and grow. So, I've got lifetime practices of learning, and those have been very helpful to me over time.
Rob West: I know I've read about something you have that you call "library days." I think this is brilliant, and it's actually a practice you increased when you stepped into the role of president at Chick-fil-A. Tell us about that.
Tim Tassopoulos: Sure. So, Dan Cathy and others at Chick-fil-A had sort of set the example for pulling away and having time of reflection, and I picked up that habit and I got to be very consistent with it. And so, throughout my career at Chick-fil-A, when my assistant and I would work on my calendar, one of the things we would put in first is a day a month at a public library. And why a public library? Well, it couldn't be in a Chick-fil-A restaurant or it couldn't be at the Chick-fil-A Support Center, but instead I chose a public library because you can't use your cell phone in the public library. And so it's easier to not be distracted that way.
But it would be a time that I would have some things to study, I would have a review of my calendar and some key activities, and then I'd look ahead the next 90 days. And so, it was a time of restoration, it was a time of reflection, and then a time of refocusing. And so, they became invaluable to me. And you did mention about—I was very blessed and honored to serve as the president of Chick-fil-A, and the day it was announced to the Chick-fil-A family that the Cathy family and the Chick-fil-A Board of Directors asked me to step into that role, I knew my time pressures were going to go up tremendously.
And so I went to my assistant and I said, "You know, every hour is going to matter more now because of the challenges from a time standpoint. I need to plan more, so I'm going to add a second library day." Which is sort of counterintuitive when you think about it. It's like, "I'm going to have more time pressure now, I'm going to spend more time away." But I think it did help me in terms of my effectiveness, but at least it gave me confidence that I was trying to refocus on a consistent basis.
Rob West: That is powerful. So, we're grateful, we then grow these gifts that God has entrusted to us, and then we're generous. And this is something that is just hardwired into Chick-fil-A organizationally. I know it's true about the Cathys as well—Truett modeled that from day one. And that's what I love about what we're talking about here: this isn't theory. You saw this lived out in their lives personally as a family, didn't you?
Tim Tassopoulos: Oh, there's no question about it. And when you think about generosity, again, it does start with generosity of spirit. There is a sense of "we want to share inspiration with others," that inspiration that comes from us being inspired, having the Spirit within us, and then sharing that with others. It is generosity of time, and so often that can get overlooked when we think about generosity. But serving in so many ways, which of course the Cathy family does over and over and over again—whether through WinShape and other entities like Lifeshape that members of the Cathy family sponsor.
And then you've got an amazing impact when that generosity is generosity of investment—first and foremost, development of others. And so, there's power in mentoring, there's power in developing future leaders. That's all through the DNA of Chick-fil-A, the Cathy family again reflecting Truett, who always did that himself. And then lastly, it's generosity of finances. And it's hard to find a major project across both Christendom and specifically here in the city of Atlanta, which is Chick-fil-A's home, that Chick-fil-A's resources and the Cathys family's resources have not impacted.
Rob West: Yeah, that is so true. I know I've heard you talk about Truett's "10-10-10" approach. Tell us about that.
Tim Tassopoulos: Well, you know, Truett just exemplified the idea of stewardship. And so often he would talk about finances in this simple formula. He would say: "Give 10%, save 10%, and work 10% harder." And he always said it in that order, and that clearly impacted me as I think about use of finances. But the idea that no matter what you make, you want to start with your giving, and then again, as little or as much as you make, that you do save, and of course that's saving for not only today, but also for the future.
And then working 10% harder—that was always an encouragement to make sure that, as Truett would say, "Why not your best?" And so he was encouraging and challenging us to give our very best. I will also say, one thing you can't separate from Truett is his life verse that he said over and over and over again: Proverbs 22:1, "A good name is rather to be chosen than great riches." And you know, he clearly lived that out, where his good name and the good name of Chick-fil-A mattered, and it mattered more than silver or gold.
Rob West: Wow. Yeah, his priorities were right. And embedded in the organization with that 10% of work harder is really the extra mile service that Chick-fil-A is known for, isn't it?
Tim Tassopoulos: That's right. Second mile service—you take that straight from Matthew 5:41 and the idea of, when asked to go one mile, go the second mile. And Chick-fil-A restaurant team members, Chick-fil-A owner-operators, and staff members all across now not just the country, but even around the world, do take that opportunity. When a customer says "thank you," that we say, "my pleasure."
Rob West: Incredible. Tim, we've just scratched the surface. We're going to have to have you back, but this has been a lot of fun. Thanks for reminding us that stewardship begins with gratitude, moves to growth, and ultimately leads to generosity. We appreciate your time.
Tim Tassopoulos: Thanks for having me.
Rob West: Folks, that's Tim Tassopoulos, former president and chief operating officer of Chick-fil-A. All right, we're going to take a quick break, and then we'll be back with your questions at 800-525-7000. That's 800-525-7000. Or if you'd prefer to email your question, send it to us at [email protected]. Stick around.
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Rob West: What a treat that my friend Tim Tassopoulos was with us in those first couple of segments to hear his cycle of stewardship and some of the inside stories from his time leading Chick-fil-A as president, working alongside Truett Cathy, Dan Cathy, the entire Cathy family, which is just doing some incredible work. As you know, they're in the chicken sandwich business, but it is so much more than that, as you know. They have led with this mindset of stewardship. In fact, it's right there in their mission statement, their core values, how they serve and lead. Just the fact that they're closed on Sunday. Interestingly, that's about 13% of their operating week. If you know anything about fast food, you know Sunday is often the most profitable day of the week.
And yet, Chick-fil-A stores, last I heard, do about, on average, about $9 million per store per year in revenue. The next highest is a popular chain that you would know well, McDonald's, and that's in the $3 to $4 million range. So think about that: closed on perhaps the most profitable day of the week, 13% less than their competitors, and yet they're 2 to 3x the revenue. I think it just says something about what it looks like to manage God's money God's way and operate from biblical principles. Certainly an exciting and interesting story, but just so grateful for the wisdom Tim shared today.
Well, we want to turn the corner and address the questions you have in your financial life. This program each day is really about helping you manage money as a steward of God's resources. Yeah, I share my thoughts with you from time to time, and we have incredible guests opine on biblical principles. We always go back to God's word, but we want you to be the star of the show as we have the opportunity to lean into your questions. So we'll do that here in just a moment. We do have lines open if you have a question today. Call right now: 800-525-7000. That's 800-525-7000. You can call right now.
In the news today, US Treasury yields rose with long-term borrowing costs reaching their highest levels in nearly two decades as investors weighed growing government debt, persistent inflation, and renewed tensions in the Middle East. The 30-year Treasury yield climbed above 5.3%, hitting a 19-year high. The benchmark 10-year yield was near 4.7%, while the 2-year hovered around 4.2%. The move comes after the US budget deficit jumped to more than $432 billion in July, bringing the fiscal year shortfall to nearly $1.8 trillion. Interest costs on nearly $40 trillion in national debt have reached about $1.2 trillion this year.
Investors are also watching inflation. While recent price data has shown some improvement, inflation remains above the Federal Reserve's 2% target. Of course, rising oil prices amid renewed US-Iran tensions are adding to concerns that price pressures could persist. Bond yields have also moved higher overseas, with long-term rates in Japan and parts of Europe reaching multi-year highs as well. For consumers, the takeaway is simple: if Treasury yields stay elevated, borrowing costs on mortgages, auto loans, and other debts could remain higher for longer, but you will be rewarded on the savings side. Bob Doll will be along in our final segment today to check in with us with his weekly update on the markets. We'll get his take on this budget deficit and debt as well. That's coming up in our final segment.
In the meantime, let's dive into your questions today. We're going to begin in Texas. Lee, go right ahead, sir.
Lee: Thank you, Rob, for taking my call. The ladies that took my call were really sweet, and I appreciate that. One quick question about that interview prior to that: You know, I remember as a kid, on Sundays, there were hardly any stores open on Sundays. You know, and that's the way it was, you know? But anyway, my question's about when I should retire. Okay? I'm 63. I currently work. I've got a nest egg, you know, as far as Roth, 401(k), etc. All I have left is my house. And frankly, I'm just, like I was telling the lady before, I'm getting tired of working, you know? And so, anyway, I was just curious of your take and how you would look at it, basically.
Rob West: Yes. So, have you already retired, Lee, at this point?
Lee: No, no, I'm still working.
Rob West: Okay, got it. Yeah. So, you know, at the end of the day, when to claim Social Security benefits is a really important question. As you probably know, you can take it as early as 62, but that's going to permanently reduce the monthly benefit. Waiting beyond full retirement age, conversely, will increase it through those delayed retirement credits of about 8% a year. So if you wait until age 70—and you wouldn't wait past that because those delayed credits stop at age 70—you could get a check about 25% higher than what you would have received at full retirement age.
If you're still working, which you are, before full retirement age, and you were to take Social Security, obviously that earnings test could temporarily—and that's an important distinction—withhold some of the benefits if you exceed the annual limit. You'd eventually get that back in the form of a higher check.
But I would say, just as a general rule of thumb, you don't want to automatically claim just because you're eligible. If you can comfortably live on your employment income and other resources and delay that Social Security, that's going to provide that larger guaranteed monthly benefit, and then the cost-of-living increases on top of that larger benefit are also going to be elevated. Also, a lot of folks will consider your spouse as well. If you're married, you want to consider both spouses' benefits, ages, health, longevity, and survivor's benefits. Often, you want to maximize the higher earner's benefit because that can also improve the eventual survivor benefit. And us guys are, on average, going to predecease our wives, and if you happen to have that higher benefit, you delaying that benefit would ultimately benefit her, as she's only collecting the higher of the benefits, which would be yours at that elevated level.
So, just as a rule of thumb, it's going to take you about 12 years to be repaid if you were to wait from full retirement age until age 70 to be repaid for those three years you gave up where you hadn't received any benefits. But then after age roughly 82, you would have been repaid for all that you gave up, and then you'd enjoy that higher check of 24-25% for the rest of your life, which is going to offset your biggest risk in that season, which is longevity risk—that you would outlive your money.
I have a few more thoughts. I want to get your follow-up after the break. Stay right there.
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Rob West: Great to have you with us today on Faith & Finance here on American Family Radio. Lines are open taking your questions today, 800-525-7000. Before the break, we were talking to Lee in Texas. He's 63, working full-time. He's getting kind of to the end of his working career in the sense that he's tired, ready to slow down, thinking about a change of pace and perhaps what God has next, and just wondering about Social Security and how to prepare. And I was sharing some of the thoughts around, you know, how you think through when to take it and the benefits of waiting. You know, I think a good framework in terms of your options at this point, Lee, would be number one, you know, claim at 63. You'd start Social Security, your benefit would be permanently reduced because you're claiming early. And then if you continue to work full-time, you'd have that earnings test and you'd have that temporary reduction. The second option is you retire now, but delay Social Security. And if you have enough savings, you could stop working without immediately claiming Social Security. But ultimately, you know, that's going to come down to what you have saved and perhaps seeing your savings and retirement accounts as a temporary bridge to allow your benefits to grow. The third option is wait until full retirement age. The earnings test ends and you'd at least maximize what you had coming. And then finally, wait until 70 where it would grow by about, you know, 24% higher than full retirement age, but you'd have to, you know, wait about 12 years to be repaid and then you'd have that higher check for the rest of your life. So give me your thoughts on that and then give me a sense of if you did retire and delayed Social Security, you know, what would that mean in terms of the income sources you'd have and the assets you'd have to be able to access to be able to support your lifestyle.
Lee: Well, I mean, you know, I don't understand, honestly, I just I don't understand. If I was to continue to work when I was at the age that I am now, and I waited, you know, say two years, I mean, why not go ahead and wait, you know, for two years instead of it being at that 63 age and losing, you know, losing that extra money? Or would I?
Rob West: Oh, I agree. Yeah. So you're going to have a permanent reduction for each month you take it before full retirement age, which is 67. So you'd have a pretty steep, you know, permanent reduction on that benefit if you were to take it at 63. And I would agree. I would encourage you not to do that. I would either continue to work or use retirement assets—which we haven't talked about what you have saved—but, you know, perhaps look at that as a bridge to get to full retirement age.
Lee: Yeah. I, you know, we have over a, we have over a million in savings and, and, you know, we've, we've done, we've done our due diligence in that area. And, so the biggest issue, we don't have any bills other than our house note currently. And so the house is supposed to be done in 20, 2032 is when the house note is supposed to be finished. Got it. So, if I retire at 67, that's 2030, you know. And it's like, you know, I've always planned, my plan was to have that house paid off. It's just something about it. But, you know, if I can't make it, you know, it's weird. You feel your body going downhill.
Rob West: Yes, sir.
Lee: You know, and it makes you think about things, right?
Rob West: Absolutely.
Lee: And that's just part of, and that's just part of it. You know, but thank the Lord that I listen to His precepts in His Word, you know, and I don't have to worry about, you know, do I have enough money as far as retirement's concerned, you know? So I'm thankful for that.
Rob West: Yeah, well, I couldn't agree more and you've heeded these principles and you're enjoying the fruit of that. And I would say you're exactly right in terms of, you know, the opportunity you have. If you were to be able to, let's say, sync everything up to 2030 if, you know, you would have the physical stamina to continue until then, you know, you could run an amortization schedule on that mortgage on any free mortgage calculator online to be able to say, "Okay, how much extra would I need to send per month or per year to be able to shorten that payoff by two years so that you hit full retirement age at the same moment your biggest expense comes out?" And based on the fact that you're living modestly, you all would need very little, you know, to live on at that point. And you'd have, you know, now let me call it three more years of additional savings and growth. And you'd be maximizing at least your full retirement age benefit. That may be the sweet spot of everything, you know, if you guys were to add a little bit more to that principal reduction each month.
Lee: Right. So hypothetical for you. Say, say if I did, if I worked to 2030 and that's retirement, retirement age, and I still had say 30, $30,000 or $40,000 left on the house note, okay? Would you continue to pay it through retirement? If I retired, would you continue to pay for it out of, you know, your moneys that you're getting from Social Security, your investments, etc., or would you just pay it off and save the interest that's left?
Rob West: Yeah, it's a good question. What is the interest rate?
Lee: Well, 2.5%.
Rob West: Yeah, so I wouldn't be in a rush. I mean, you know, a lot of that will come down to if you had enough in savings that you had a fully funded emergency fund, whatever that is for you—you know, maybe that's 6 months, maybe it's as much as a year—and you had additional money, and when we got to 2030, let's say interest rates were much lower than they are today, it might make sense. But in today's environment, it doesn't make any sense for you to pay that off unless you just have a conviction to do that. I would just continue to pay it off out of monthly cash flow and just ride that 2.5% very low-interest rate mortgage. Now, I suspect, just given the way you all live, you know, you could add enough on a monthly or annual basis so that you don't even have the $20,000 or $30,000 if you set your mind to it. But if you did, I would just pay it out of current cash flow unless interest rates were, you know, way down, even below your mortgage interest rate. But even then, I don't know that it's worth, you know, the savings to give up that liquidity if you don't have to.
Lee: Sure. Yeah, understood. We just, you know, we feel pretty good right now physically, and we just took the—I broke my back years ago, five years ago, and it just scared us, right? You know, and so we talked, we said, "You know, honey, we've scraped and saved all our lives, and we put things off. And let's go ahead and do some of those things now while we're physically able, right, instead of waiting until, you know, we're 70s and we can't go and do those things."
Rob West: Yes. Yeah, that's exactly right. I'm sorry, I think I lost you there, but are you back with us?
Lee: Yeah, I'm back. I said that's the path we're taking, you know, so.
Rob West: Yeah, very good. Well, listen, Lee, so thankful to have you on the program today, sir. It sounds like you've got a great plan. You're a living testimony to when you apply these principles and you do it over a long period of time and you live modestly, you see the fruit of that. And, you know, that's what we talk about each day on this program. Does that mean you won't have challenges along the way? Absolutely not. You're going to have plenty of challenges. We live in a fallen world, but we do our best to live within God's provision, with contentment. We understand He owns it all, we're stewards, and we work hard. And remember, that's part of God's design, is that we were to be workers before the Fall. Before sin entered the world, we were created in God's image, a worker, to be workers, to co-create with Him. Except He creates out of nothing, we create out of His creation, and we order it and we improve it and we put it to work. And we work with the sweat of our brow. And when we do that, we experience human flourishing, and we contribute to the overall blessing of mankind. And that's the way it should be. And that's why when we cease all productive work, our health declines, and I think we lose some joy in the process because that's not a part of God's plan. But you can transition to what God has next for you and use your wisdom and experience to love and serve others. Thanks for your call, Lee. We'll be right back.
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Rob West: Thanks for joining us today on Faith & Finance here on American Family Radio. I'm Rob West. Just a moment, Bob Doll will be with us. We'll get Bob's update on the markets. The market's selling off today modestly, under some pressure by bond yields. We talked about that at the top of the program, and oil prices. We'll get Bob's take on all of that straight ahead. But first, David in Iowa. David, you've been waiting very patiently. Go ahead, sir.
David: Hi Rob. Hey, thank you for taking my call. I spoke to you a few months back, and I was going up to Alaska to work on a job. Yeah. Well, I thought I'd give you an update. I was really hoping that I was going to come back and tell you that I got my entire debt paid off, but things slowed down up there a little bit, and so I didn't get to where I wanted to, but I still have my plan B. I'm back in Iowa working, and so in two months we paid off about $15,000 in credit card debt, and...
Rob West: Wow. Well done.
David: Yeah, so it was really worth it. And I still have about 14 to go. And if I stay with my plan... My boss is a Christian guy, and he told me, he said, "Dave, come back. We'll help you get..." You know, he's got plenty of work that I can get be very aggressive paying off the rest of that. So, my goal is to do it by the end of the year. That's a pretty aggressive goal, but that's my goal to get that paid off. And then, you did recommend... Yes?
Rob West: I'm sorry, finish your thought. No, no, go ahead.
David: Oh, okay. Well, you did recommend that we start working on building that emergency fund, and I got about $1,000, so I didn't get that built as much as I could, so... I guess, what's the best way to proceed forward here, do you think? I had mentioned to you about you've got your debt relief plan that you mention on the radio a lot. Would it make sense to go through that, or if I can pay this off fast enough, do I continue that? That's really what I kind of want to do. So, yeah. What would be your thoughts on that?
Rob West: Yeah. Well, first of all, well done. You know, even though you didn't get quite where you wanted to be, congrats on paying that $15,000 in credit card debt down. That's a big deal. I love that you're going to stay focused on it, even though things didn't materialize exactly the way you expected. What's the balance remaining at this point, David?
David: We're at about 14, a little under $15,000. $14,500, somewhere around there.
Rob West: All right. And where is the money going to come from if you are able to pay it off by year-end?
David: Well, I've reached full retirement age. I took early retirement for... And so, that's part of the reason we built up some debt is you get penalized if you, you know, you make too much money. So, I can work full-time now, so that's really my plan is I'm just going to try and until that debt's paid off, I'm just going to work full-time and pour as much as I possibly can into paying off that debt, which I'm hoping is between $1,500 and $2,000 a month.
Rob West: Okay, but that's not going to get it done by the end of the year. I mean, we're basically talking four months. You'd need $3,500 a month in order to hit $14,000. So, is it more realistic to think it might be, you know, middle of next year before you have this paid off?
David: It's more realistic probably to think about March.
Rob West: March, yeah. Okay. Well, here's what I would do. Yeah, I mean, I like the fact that you've got the $1,000 in emergencies. I might try to add $500 more to that, but then I'd freeze it right there. You know, the reason we want something there is we want to break the cycle of the borrowing, and so you've got something to fall back on. We'll get that up to three to six months' expenses when the debt is gone.
But I think a six-month runway, maybe nine months if things don't go quite as expected, is long enough for you to go ahead and put this with Christian Credit Counselors, because you can prepay it even though you're on the program. You're just going to get a lower interest rate while you're doing it. And this is enough debt that, you know, with you somewhere between 22 and 30% on those interest rates, you know, let's go ahead and get that down to between 0 and 10.
So, I'd reach out to christiancreditcounselors.org. They'll get you set up on a credit counseling program, they'll drop the interest rates, they'll give you one monthly payment. But don't just automatically settle into the payment they give you. Let's stay focused on getting this paid off, you know, between three and six months from now, and, you know, you'll be in a whole new position here. You can build up your emergency fund, and then you can redirect all that toward long-term savings and investments.
David: Okay. Well, I tell you what I'm going to do, too. I'm going to keep I'll keep you updated on what's going on, because you've been a real blessing. Your show has been a real blessing to me, and, you know, I don't feel guilty. I feel convicted that this is something that God is saying, "You need to get this taken care of." And that's how I know that your show is God-ordained.
Rob West: Well, thank you. I'll tell you, it's not about wagging fingers at anybody, because we all make mistakes along the way. We're all just trying to answer the question, "What is the next faithful step?" Based on where we are today, what does faithfulness look like right now? And what is that next faithful step that I can take? And you're doing it. You're living within your contentment, you're working hard, you're prioritizing the right things, getting out of debt, saving, honoring the Lord in that, recognizing He owns it all. And even the ability to earn money comes from Him, Deuteronomy 8:18 tells us.
So, well done, David. Stay at it. You're going to do this. And yeah, keep us posted. I'd love to be able to celebrate with you when you get to the end of this. God bless you, my friend. Thanks for calling today and checking in.
Rob West: Well, Bob Doll is here. Lots to talk about. Bob, at the top of the program, you know, I was talking about just these long-term and medium-term and even short-term Treasury yields up at, you know, 19-year highs. What is the significance of that?
Bob Doll: Well, first of all, the reason it's happening, as you know, Rob, you cited it earlier, it's concerns about inflation, it's concerns about oil prices, concerns about the federal debt level. And so, interest rates have been creeping higher. And what it means is it's a higher return for a new fixed-income investor. It also means for people who need and want to borrow money for things, it's costing more, and that generally has a slowing effect on activity.
Rob West: Yeah, no doubt about it. Bob, you know, the budget deficit, I know the latest read out was $432 billion in July. I think the fiscal year shortfall is going to be at nearly $2 trillion, which puts us up at nearly $40 trillion total, with the numbers I saw say that the interest on that is over a trillion dollars a year.
I mean, we started with President Trump's second term here with DOGE kind of at the front and forefront of everything, and this idea we were going to cut budgets and cut wasteful spending, and now here we are. Why is that? Is it just, you know, a function of Washington and the gravitational pull, or something else?
Bob Doll: Yeah, it's all of the above. It's a lot easier for a politician to spend money than to trim a program, because you trim a program, you're trimming someone's largesse, as it were. And you add a program or you increase a program, you're making somebody feel good, and they want and need to get re-elected every two, four, and six years. And so, our system is just geared to that, and it will take a crisis before we actually get serious about paying down our debt and dealing with it, and we're not there yet. You and I can talk about it, listeners can complain about it, but it's not affecting anybody significantly. That's why we do nothing about it.
Rob West: Bob, is that something that's 10 years away, longer, shorter? What's your best guess on when we might need to really deal with this because a crisis is looming?
Bob Doll: Yeah, so I don't think it's going to be one day we wake up and today's the day. It's going to be a slow process, and we're already seeing some of it. I gave one of the reasons interest rates are moving up: the debt level. It's becoming a huge issue. You just cited the numbers: $40 trillion in debt, a trillion dollars just to pay the interest. That's scary.
Rob West: It sure is. Yeah. Bob, last thoughts just on where we're at with this market right now.
Bob Doll: So, look, I think the market's been amazing the last few years, year-to-date it's done well, and now it's struggling a little bit here in the last few days, struggling again today. And look, if interest rates don't stop going up, if oil prices keep going up, it's going to be hard to see the stock market turning around and running up to new highs. On the other hand, earnings continue great, and as a result, I don't know that we have to worry about some big bear market in front of us. So, we're just taking a little pause after all the wonderful news we've seen.
Rob West: All right. Bob, appreciate your thoughts as always, my friend.
Bob Doll: All the best. Bye-bye.
Rob West: All right. That's Bob Doll. He's CEO and CIO at Crossmark Global Investments. If you want to learn more, head over to crossmarkglobal.com.
Mike in Tennessee, I apologize we didn't get to your question today on your grandkids and investing and perhaps the Trump accounts. Let's see if we can get you scheduled to be first up tomorrow. I'd love to tackle that question. I know a lot of folks out there, parents and grandparents, wondering, "Is the Trump account a great way to save? What about other options, 529s and other tools?" I'd love to weigh into that, and so the team will see if we can get you scheduled for tomorrow's broadcast.
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Big thanks to Patty, Devin, Taylor, and everybody here at Faith & Finance. See you tomorrow.
Stewardship is a continuous cycle that progresses from gratitude to growth to generosity. When we are grateful, we can recognize what God entrusts to us. Through our faithful actions, we further develop our life of stewardship. Finally, we bless others when we give. On this Faith & Finance on AFR, Rob West and Tim Tassopoulos describe how that cycle applies to both time and money. Then, it’s on to calls.
(00:00) Rob West and Tim Tassopoulos discuss the cycle of stewardship
(08:30) Rob West and Tim Tassopoulos continue their discussion on the cycle of stewardship
(22:46) In the News: Treasury yields are up
(24:25) Caller Lee: When to start social security
(31:22) Rob West continues the conversation with Lee about when to begin social security
(42:36) Caller David: Paid off a large amount of credit card debt but still has a way to go, what is the best way to proceed
(48:56) Bob Doll joins Rob West to examine the significance of treasury yields at 19 year highs and the increasing national debt
(51:54) Bob Doll gives a quick update on the markets
Stewardship is a continuous cycle that progresses from gratitude to growth to generosity. When we are grateful, we can recognize what God entrusts to us. Through our faithful actions, we further develop our life of stewardship. Finally, we bless others when we give. On this Faith & Finance on AFR, Rob West and Tim Tassopoulos describe how that cycle applies to both time and money. Then, it’s on to calls.
(00:00) Rob West and Tim Tassopoulos discuss the cycle of stewardship
(08:30) Rob West and Tim Tassopoulos continue their discussion on the cycle of stewardship
(22:46) In the News: Treasury yields are up
(24:25) Caller Lee: When to start social security
(31:22) Rob West continues the conversation with Lee about when to begin social security
(42:36) Caller David: Paid off a large amount of credit card debt but still has a way to go, what is the best way to proceed
(48:56) Bob Doll joins Rob West to examine the significance of treasury yields at 19 year highs and the increasing national debt
(51:54) Bob Doll gives a quick update on the markets
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