Rob West: The late Larry Burkett once said, "Money is either the best or the worst area of communication in our marriages." Hi, I'm Rob West. Few things reveal the strength of a couple's unity quite like money, but what if your finances were rooted in oneness and Kingdom impact? Today, I'll talk with Dr. Art Rainer about how to become a truly rich couple, and then it's on to your calls at 800-525-7000. That's 800-525-7000. This is Faith & Finance on American Family Radio, biblical wisdom for your financial journey.
Well, it's always a pleasure to have my friend Art Rainer in the studio. Art is the founder of the Institute for Christian Financial Health and Christian Money Solutions. He's also the author of several books on biblical finance, including The Rich Couple: 30 Days of Following God's Design for a Financially Healthy Marriage. Art, great to have you back.
Art Rainer: Rob, it is always an honor, so thank you so much for having me.
Rob West: Well, it's my privilege. Art, let's dive in. I love this book, and you use an interesting phrase in it. You say "a financially rich couple"—I've already referred to it at least once here in the open. Explain that for us. What do you mean?
Art Rainer: Yeah, great question. And I'm very clear in the book about this. So a rich couple isn't necessarily one with the biggest bank account. It is a couple that is rich in contentment and purpose. They recognize that everything they have belongs to God, and they find joy in faithfully stewarding His resources rather than constantly chasing after more. So they're united around a shared mission, they are generous with what they have been given, and they are free from the endless comparison and discontent that money can create. You know, financial wealth can disappear, but contentment in Christ and purpose rooted in God's Kingdom creates a richness that lasts, and that is the kind of wealth every couple should pursue.
Rob West: Absolutely. I love that. What a beautiful picture. Now you encourage couples to decide to be one. So, practically speaking, what does it look like to move from "mine and yours" to this mindset that reflects the picture of marriage that God designed for us, that's really about "ours" and not "mine and yours"?
Art Rainer: Oh, I love that question. Yeah, moving from "mine and yours" to "ours" begins with recognizing that marriage is a covenant, not a contract. So in Genesis 2:24, we're told that a husband and a wife become one flesh, and that includes every part of their lives, including their finances. So practically that means combining accounts, sharing passwords, and embracing complete financial transparency. So my encouragement to couples is to schedule a brief monthly meeting huddle to review your financial goals and to make decisions together, establish a "no surprises" spending threshold—so if a purchase exceeds that amount, then you need to send a quick text to your spouse first—and then finally, change your language. You know, start with saying our income, or our debt, and our generosity. You know, unity grows through intentional habits, and so I encourage couples to chase after that.
Rob West: Yeah, unity is so key, and it's so foreign to so many couples, especially in this area of money. But this idea of a team sport with regard to marriage is so key, and that's the number one mindset shift that you share in the book. Describe that a bit further.
Art Rainer: Yeah, so marriage is a team sport. My family, we're all about sports, and so I like that analogy. And your spouse is supposed to be your number one teammate. So that means your loyalty belongs to one another—not to your parents, not to your children (we love them), not to your friends (we love them), but that's not where your loyalty lies. You can disagree with your spouse behind closed doors, but when you step outside, you present a united front. And that builds trust, because each spouse knows the decisions won't be reversed in the parking lot or, you know, undermined by outside voices. For example, if your in-laws encourage an expensive purchase, a healthy response would be, "You know, thanks for the suggestion. We'll talk it over and we'll let you know." So that is what Team Number One looks like: protecting unity before everything else.
Rob West: Oh, I love that. Having a unified front and really being of one mind and heart. Doesn't mean we won't have disagreements; it also doesn't mean that as we talk about our values and our priorities, they're always going to align. But we need to be committed to finding oneness at the end of the day and driving toward unity, and that needs to include in our financial lives as well.
Well, when we come back with Dr. Art Rainer today, we're going to continue to unpack this. What about that knot in your stomach when the conversation turns to money? We're going to give you some ideas, some practical ways to ease that tension. We'll also talk about some of the marriage dividers and how you get past those as well. Art Rainer's here today; we're talking a financially healthy marriage. Much more after this, stick around.
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Rob West: When couples decide to be one, money can become less of a source of tension and more of a tool for unity and Kingdom impact. That's certainly God's heart in marriage. We're talking about that today, a financially healthy marriage. With us is my friend Art Rainer. Art is the founder of the Institute for Christian Financial Health and Christian Money Solutions. He's also the author of the book The Rich Couple: 30 Days of Following God's Design for a Financially Healthy Marriage. You can buy it wherever you buy books.
Art, we've been describing these mindset shifts that are so key, and you know, as folks are listening to this topic, I'm sure there's some listeners that are remembering that knot in their stomach that they sense every time the conversation turns to money. In your book, you offer a practical way to ease that tension. Explain that to our listeners.
Art Rainer: Yeah, Rob, and that is so very common. One of the best ways to reduce financial tension is to share your money stories. So, our past experiences with money shape our present fears, our habits, and impulses. So as couples, you want to talk through those stories. Help your spouse understand your money personality, whether you're naturally a spender, a saver, an investor, or an ignorer. That understanding creates empathy instead of frustration. Suddenly it's not "Why are you like this?", but "Now I understand why that purchase makes you so anxious." It also helps couples divide financial responsibilities according to their strengths. So instead of, you know, allowing childhood baggage to create hidden conflict, money stories transform it into a shared strategy for moving forward. So share your money stories; that's big.
Rob West: Mm, yeah, that is so key. And Art, you know, so much of the way we handle money was shaped by how it was modeled for us growing up, by how God has wired us, including our temperament. How is getting that out on the table with your spouse and talking about some of those early memories of money and coming to an understanding of what drives our money decisions individually—how is that important to drive toward unity as a couple?
Art Rainer: Well, it helps you to understand where your spouse is coming from. It provides a sense of empathy. So as your spouse is coming to the table with a desire maybe to save a little bit more, to have a little bit more in the emergency fund—and maybe that's not your natural bent; maybe you're more of a spender, or an investor, or maybe you're an ignorer—you understand where they are coming from. And so it's not this, "Oh, I can't believe you're saying this," it's actually an "Oh, I understand why you are saying this." And it helps create empathy, and hopefully, it creates a better line of communication for you and your spouse.
Rob West: Yeah, I think that's right on. If you haven't done this, maybe the next time you're on a money date or talking about money, just answer the question, each of you: "What was your earliest memory of money?" And see how what comes to mind isn't still playing out in how you each handle money today.
All right, Art, let's turn to generosity. You list it among your first money milestones. Why is that the best place to begin? I have an idea, but I'm curious!
Art Rainer: I think you do! So I begin with generosity because that's where the Bible starts, okay? This is not an Art Rainer idea. So throughout Scripture, God calls His people to recognize that He owns everything and that we are the managers of what He has entrusted to us. So that's why Money Milestone 1 is to start giving. It redirects the heart before it redirects the budget. It gives couples a shared purpose that they can celebrate together while protecting them from lifestyle creep as their income continues to grow. So financial health begins with faithful stewardship, and faithful stewardship begins with generosity, not bigger bank accounts.
Rob West: Yeah, that's well said. Speaking of those milestones, I think it might be helpful to just unpack those quickly. What are the eight money milestones couples can use to track their progress?
Art Rainer: Yeah, so the eight money milestones that we use is just a guide; it helps us answer that question, "What financial step is next?"
So it starts with generosity, and it ends with generosity.
Rob West: And there's actually a book on all of that, right?
Art Rainer: Correct. Yeah, that can be found in The Money Challenge, or it's also found in The Rich Couple. So either of those two books provide you with the eight money milestones.
Rob West: Okay, excellent. It's so helpful. Which of the money milestones, Art, tends to trip couples up the most, and what have you found helps to get unstuck?
Art Rainer: So the very first one that tends to trip couples up is actually Money Milestone 1, because oftentimes I'll meet with couples—I do financial counseling, I meet with couples—and they're not on the same page with the biblical foundation for financial health, and that is generosity. They have not discussed what to give, how much to give, when to give. And so if we can establish that baseline, then it goes a long way toward building everything else in their financial life. So it starts with generosity.
Rob West: Mm, yeah, that's helpful. You warn couples about what you call the four "marriage dividers," and I want to unpack those for a moment. I think these are really helpful.
Art Rainer: Yeah. So the four biggest marriage dividers around money are:
So, poor communication is addressed by having a simple, weekly, 10-minute money conversation before you ever open a spreadsheet. Selfishness fades when couples stop thinking in terms of "my money" and start celebrating each other's wins. Distrust is overcome through complete transparency—we're talking about shared accounts, shared passwords, and agreed-upon spending guidelines. Unrealistic expectations are replaced with a realistic, shared financial plan that's reviewed regularly. So ultimately, one principle that ties this all together is to bring everything into the light: talk early, and pray often.
Rob West: That's so good. If someone's listening today, Art, and they say, "You know, I love what you're talking about, but that just doesn't even seem possible in my marriage. We're miles apart." What would you say to begin turning that around?
Art Rainer: Well, don't start with the budget. Start with your hearts. So pray together. In The Rich Couple, I encourage couples to begin with this simple prayer: "Lord, help us to be one. Help us experience the contentment and purpose that You desire for us. Thank You for allowing us to be a part of Your mission. Please help us steward Your possessions well, leveraging them for the advancement of Your Kingdom." And then, I encourage couples to spend 15 minutes sharing their money stories without interrupting or judging each other. And then finally, take one small step together, such as opening a joint savings account with $50. The small acts of unity can create lasting momentum.
Rob West: Yeah, that is so good. Well, Art, I really appreciate your insights. This is such an important topic, and folks, I would love for you to pick up a copy of this book. It's called The Rich Couple: 30 Days of Following God's Design for a Financially Healthy Marriage. You can buy it wherever you buy books. You can also head over to christianmoneysolutions.com. That's christianmoneysolutions.com. Art, thanks for your time today.
Art Rainer: Thanks for having me.
Rob West: That's Art Rainer, founder of the Institute for Christian Financial Health and Christian Money Solutions. Again, the title of this book: The Rich Couple: 30 Days of Following God's Design for a Financially Healthy Marriage.
All right, a quick break, and then back with your questions: 800-525-7000. That's 800-525-7000. Or, if you'd prefer to email your questions, send it to us at [email protected]. Stick around.
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Rob West: I'm so glad you're with us today on Faith & Finance here on American Family Radio. I'm Rob West. We're taking your calls and questions today at that number, 800-525-7000. That's 800-525-7000. We would love to hear from you today and take your questions as we help you apply biblical wisdom to your financial decisions. You know, if you think about it, money is a good gift from a good God. It's to enjoy and provide. And think about this: when we hold it loosely and give it generously or invest it strategically in a way that aligns with our values, we have the opportunity to not only love our neighbor and advance the common good, we have an opportunity to advance the gospel. You know, I was reading this morning in my own quiet time in Luke chapter 8 about Chuza and Mary and Susanna, and it said they funded ministry out of their means. So they took the gift from God—money—and used it to fund ministry. What ministry, you ask? Well, it was Jesus' ministry! They were funding the disciples; they were funding the work of our Lord through their means. I mean, that is the perfect, the classic example of how money can become a means for gospel advancement. And that same thing exists for you and I today.
Rob West: But it requires that we live within God's provision. It requires that we have margin or surplus. It requires that we don't consume it all on our lifestyle. It requires that we be intentional and realize we're accountable and be held to faithfulness as our goal as stewards. But we have an opportunity. Now, on the flip side, we also see in scripture that money can become an idol very quickly, especially in the most prosperous nation in the history of the world. So you and I need to be on our guard that it doesn't become the creation we worship over the Creator. But when it's in its rightful place, wow, we can do incredible things. That's what we want to do each day on this program. By the way, one of those incredible things you can do, in addition to funding the work of American Family Association and FaithFi—and certainly your local church would come first—you have an opportunity to partner with us to fund Preborn. You know, between now and August the 31st, we've asked Faith & Finance listeners to step up once again—and I know you do this each year in partnership with AFR—but for this month and through August 31st, here at Faith & Finance, we're trying to fund 1,500 free ultrasounds so moms can see their babies, choose life, and be presented the gospel. Preborn is doing incredible work; many of you already know that.
Rob West: So, if you'd like to be a part of helping us reach that goal, 1,500 ultrasounds funded by August 31st, every $28 given when you go to faithfi.com/preborn will go right to that project. Faithfi.com/preborn. By the way, that $28, 100% of it goes to fund those free ultrasounds. It's not any administrative cost baked into that. By the way, also, if you have some surplus and you wanted to make a gift to buy one of those ultrasound machines to place in one of these pregnancy centers, $15,000 will do that. You can make that gift as well; we're looking for two of those between now and August 31st. Again, faithfi.com/preborn. All right, I'm going to get off my little sermon here this morning and take your questions. We do have lines open, our team is ready for you, so call right now: 800-525-7000. We'd love to hear from you today. We're going to begin in Virginia today. Savannah, how can I help you?
Savannah: Good morning, Rob, and thank you so much for all you all do.
Rob West: Thank you.
Savannah: I appreciate you helping me with a question regarding distribution of a settlement money from a hit-and-run. When someone is involved in a hit-and-run and following the settlement from the injuries and the trauma sustained are finalized, how is the settlement considered when distributed if you're on Social Security? I'm a middle-aged woman. Is it taxable? Does it fall under certain language or category on tax filings? There's a couple other questions: Is it considered income? Does it vary from state to state? Those are kind of the realm of what I'm trying to ask, I should say. Yeah.
Rob West: Yeah, and you're on regular Social Security, not SSDI, correct?
Savannah: I am on regular Social Security at this time. Yes.
Rob West: Yeah. Okay, yeah, very good. Well, first of all, I'm so sorry to hear about what you've gone through. And the good news is that, based on what you've described here—a hit-and-run accident, physical injuries, and trauma—the general rule is the settlement is not subject to federal income tax if it's compensation for physical injuries. That includes amounts for medical expenses and pain and suffering related to the physical injury. The portion that would be taxable is if there's ever any interest paid on the settlement, any punitive damages, or compensation for lost wages in many cases. But if it's just pain and suffering related to the accident, then you would not have anything related to federal taxes. In terms of state taxes, most states follow the federal tax treatment, meaning the same would apply: compensation for physical injuries or physical sickness is generally not subject to state tax either.
Rob West: In terms of Social Security, because that's not taxable at the federal level, receiving the settlement itself does not reduce or affect regular Social Security benefits. Now, if part of it was taxable—and as I mentioned, often for interest paid on it or punitive damages—now, that could increase your taxable income for the year, and that could cause a larger portion of your Social Security benefits to be taxable, or it could affect your IRMAA on your Medicare premiums. But again, because what we're describing here is likely not taxable, it should have no bearing.
Savannah: Okay. And as you said, it doesn't vary from state to state? Or no, does federal...
Rob West: It does, so you'd want to check with your CPA, but typically states follow the federal tax treatment, so that's what you're going to find in most cases.
Savannah: Okay. Well, I so appreciate your answers today.
Rob West: Well, I'm delighted to be able to help you. Go ahead.
Savannah: Yes, thank you for all you all are doing for the Kingdom. We appreciate you.
Rob West: Well, I appreciate you, Savannah. Thanks for calling that out. Stay on the line. I want to send you a copy of the latest issue of our magazine, Faithful Steward, just as our gift to you. I think you'll enjoy it, find some articles that are helpful, and certainly, they'll take you back into God's Word. We appreciate your call today and your kind remarks about the program. A quick break and back with more questions: 800-525-7000. Call right now.
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Rob West: Delighted to have you with us today on Faith & Finance here on American Family Radio. Thrilled that Art Rainer stopped by today. Art was in our first couple of segments today talking about money and marriage. You know, when we think about money and marriage, it's an opportunity to bring to the table our unique backgrounds, how God has wired us, our temperament, also how money was handled growing up and what we saw modeled, whether there was intentionality behind it or not, affects what you bring to the marriage relationship. Often we see a spender and a saver come together, and that can create some conflict. But if we work through that and find understanding with good, open communication, living within our means, creating a spending plan not to control one spouse or the other, but to align the resources God has entrusted to you as one flesh, a married couple, toward God's purposes, His vision, your values as Christ followers, it gives a plan. Now, inside that plan, you can still have flexibility. You know, you can have a line item in the budget for each of you to express your own hobbies and interests and ideas. It's not about, again, controlling; it's about saying, "Okay, we want to be faithful stewards. We need unity—that's God's plan for marriage. That means we need to have a spending plan that reflects where God is taking us so that we give every dollar a job and allow it to go toward those things that are most important to us." But we've got to do that together. That just doesn't happen by accident. So, a lot of great wisdom from Art Rainer today. He's a regular here, and for good reason. All right, we're taking your phone calls today. I've got three lines open. If you've got a question, we'll get to as many as we can today. 800-525-7000, you can call right now. Let's go out to Texas. Will, thanks for your call. Go ahead.
Will: Good morning.
Rob West: Hi there.
Will: You really put me in a quandary this morning. I knew I was going to call you this morning and make a comment about Movement Mortgage. I'd heard about them on your program, oh, a long time back. Finally was able to get through to them. I want you to know they are such a joy to work with.
Rob West: Oh, wow.
Will: They helped us immensely—Harlan and Pearl. Matter of fact, I got my first statement last week. I had some questions; I texted Pearl, and we had a Zoom meeting on Monday: Harlan and Pearl, and Linda, my wife, and I. And they are such a—they are not in the business of getting people to do this; they're in the business of helping people. I did it—I did it. I'm about to be 80 years old. I serve on church staff, I have for over 50 years. I said, "I think it's time to retire," so that's why I did this. Well, God's not going to let me retire. [Laughter] I'm going to keep pastoring. I also work with our teenagers in our church. I have been working with teenagers for over 50 years. Matter of fact, I'm about to be 80, my wife's about to be 79, and we just took our kids to youth camp. And I'm known as the O.O.G.—the "Old, Old Guy." [Laughter] And my wife calls me the oldest youth minister in Texas. But I love working with teenagers. But, I turned the radio on this morning knowing I'm going to call you about this, and you happen to have this fellow on your program this morning. I wished I'd had his book years ago, cause I'd love to have had those eight points. But as he was talking, my wife and I are a rich couple—not because we've ever had a lot of money; we've never had a lot of money. And there's been times when we were—I was without work between churches, and God has taken care of us. But it all began—I came to Christ in Vietnam when I was nearly 25 years old. The Sunday I accepted Christ in Vietnam, my wife rededicated her life. She did not—we didn't know what was going on in each other's lives. She was afraid to write me because she thought—she told me she'd rededicated her life—that I would divorce her, because I told her, "We're not doing this church thing ever."
Rob West: Wow.
Will: But every month, she would send me a letter: "Here's how much money she made, here's how much money I had sent her from the Army, here's what the bills were, and here's what was left over." Well, she said, "Oh, by the way, I'm now tithing." Well, I'm 8,000 miles away; I can't stop her. [Laughter] But I know what a tithe is. The next month: "Here's how much money we have, here's what the bills were," and what was left didn't change! I went, "Wait a minute. I don't understand this." But giving has always, always been a major part of our lives of faith. We discuss it. We not only tithe, but we give up—matter of fact, we're in the process of getting our will put together and trying to decide exactly where to do everything. You know, we want to leave our house probably, maybe to AFR possibly; we're still looking at all of that. But giving is a big part. I do wish—like I said, I do wish I'd had all those eight points, because there's some things in there I wish I'd known about that I didn't know about. But I wanted—just those two points, you know: if folks are thinking about a reverse mortgage, I had heard over the years this is not a good thing to do, but after on your program and dealing with them, it's a wonderful thing to do, and it's a great help to us. But also, thank you for the program this morning. It's such a blessing, and my wife and I just—I immediately went in and said, "Are you listening?" because she was in the other bathroom. She said, "I am." I said, "You realize they're talking about us?"
Rob West: Yes.
Will: And I'm not bragging about that. That's just who we are. We discuss finances. We don't make any big purchases. We are completely out of debt.
Rob West: Wow.
Will: And Rob, we've never—like I've served in church part-time, and she's a retired school teacher. You know, financially, we're not rich, but God has taken care of us. Our needs have always been met. And we could give you story after story after story, but I'm not going to do that to you, because there's other folks trying to get through. But I did want those two things.
Rob West: Well, I'm so glad you called, Will. You just preached a sermon to us, and I'm delighted you did, because you gave testimony to God's faithfulness. And I'm so grateful for what you just modeled for us in terms of this idea that we read about in Psalm 92, where it says, "They still bear fruit in old age; they are ever full of sap and green." And God calls our later years a crown of wisdom, not a sign of fading value, and you're leaning in and using the wisdom and experiences and your understanding of God's Word to invest in not only those around you, but I love how you're investing in the next generation. God is using you and your wife; He's used you just this morning as you've given testimony to tens of thousands listening to this program right now as to His provision and His faithfulness. And I'm so thankful for your testimony today, Will: It was a gift to us, and I'm so honored that you listen to the program regularly. I would love to send you a copy of my devotional. It's called Our Ultimate Treasure, and perhaps—in fact, I'll send you two copies: one for you and one for your wife. And maybe you all can use it to start each day for the next three weeks just getting into God's Word and understanding His heart. You're going to recognize the principles because you've been living them out, but I hope it'll be an encouragement to you. And thank you for calling out our friends at Movement Mortgage. I couldn't agree more about their desire to educate, to serve, to love God's people, not to sell. And we've seen that modeled so many times, and yet again today through your story. So, thank you for your testimony, sir.
Will: Thank you.
Rob West: All right. Lord bless you. Hang on the line—
Will: I'm really glad—yes, I'm really glad I called this morning, because I got to hear your program this morning, and that really touched us. So, thank you.
Rob West: Well, excellent. Well, you're welcome. Listen, hold the line. My team is going to get your information. We're going to send you two copies of Our Ultimate Treasure, my devotional, and I hope it'll be a blessing to you. Call back anytime if we can help you. Lord bless you. Well, folks, that's why we do what we do right there—not because of what we're accomplishing, but what God's accomplishing through the teaching of His Word around this idea of stewardship. A quick break and back with more questions after this. Stick around.
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Rob West: Great to have you with us today on Faith & Finance here on American Family Radio. We're taking your questions today. If you've got something you're thinking about in your financial life, call right now: 800-525-7000. That's 800-525-7000. Let's head back to the phones. Out to Texas. Ramon, how can I help you?
Ramon: Yes, uh, I had a question about, uh, a old, uh, uh, car—I have a car loan and a house payment. And I was thinking of getting a, uh, some kind of loan to consolidate both of those and just have one payment.
Rob West: Hmm. Yes. Yeah, what what type of, uh, loans would you be consolidating?
Ramon: Uh, a auto loan—
Rob West: Okay.
Ramon: —and a mortgage loan.
Rob West: Okay. So, let's talk about each of those. So, what is that auto loan? How much do you owe, and what is the interest rate?
Ramon: I owe $11,380. And it's at, uh, 5.7, I think.
Rob West: Okay. And what is your current mortgage?
Ramon: Uh, that one, uh, it's at 13,900. And that's at, uh, 4.7—or four, 4.3, I think it is.
Rob West: 4.3. And what would you be looking at in terms of a new loan that would roll these two together? How much would you be borrowing, and at what interest rate?
Ramon: Uh, well, just to pay those two off, those two amounts off.
Rob West: Yeah, so are you looking at getting a home equity line of credit, or what, what is it you would get to roll these together?
Ramon: Well, well, I don't know which is the best loan or which direction to go, or which is the best way, but, you know.
Rob West: Okay. So, you're just considering this at this point; you really haven't looked into it.
Ramon: Yes, sir. Yes.
Rob West: Okay. Yeah, I I would be very cautious about consolidating for a couple of reasons. Number one is, you know, any new mortgage you have is going to be, certainly, higher than that 4.3, and probably, uh, still higher even than the 5.7, uh, because, you know, even if you go get a home equity line of credit, which is, you know, usually going to be the most cost-effective, um, you know, rates right now are still in the sixes. And so, you would be talking about rolling these two together and increasing the interest rate. So, that's number one. Number two is, a lot of times, you know, whereas a car loan might be a 5-year payback, a lot of times, you know, folks will go into 10, 15 years, or longer with a home equity line of credit. Sometimes they're just paying interest-only and don't even pay the principal. Uh, the the third reason is that I wouldn't encourage you to do this is that that car loan is secured by the car. So, if something happened in your financial life unexpectedly, you lost a job or income, and you could no longer make the payment, you certainly don't want a repossession, voluntary or otherwise, but at least the collateral damage is limited to the car and and any kind of judgment if you if the car is not worth what you owe on it. But you're not losing your home. And, you know, if you roll this all into a new loan that's, uh, secured by the house, now something comes up, and you're not able to make the payment, and now your home is at risk. So, I think, for those reasons, I would, um, you know, avoid this. I'm, generally speaking, not a fan of consolidation loans, just because they they tend to take the pressure off, you get less focused on paying them back as quickly, and especially if you're going to actually go up, rather than down, on the interest, I just don't think this makes sense for you. But any thoughts on that, Ramon, or anything I'm missing here?
Ramon: No, you you you shed light on that that subject. I mean, I I didn't know that, uh—uh, thank you for your advice, sir. I really appreciate that.
Rob West: Absolutely, Ramon. It's—it was a good question, and I understand why you're considering it, but I would pass. I think the key for you, just like all of us, is to really go back to that spending plan, look for opportunities where you can cut back where possible, and just, you know, really focus on, you know, if you pay the the the scheduled payment on the mortgage and the car—we got to do that at a minimum—but if you have the ability, assuming you have an emergency fund and you are on track in saving for retirement, any surplus, um, you know, I would look at prepaying that car to try to get that one paid off as quick as you can, because that's the highest interest rate. But I wouldn't I wouldn't touch those loans. Hey, thanks for calling, sir. Lord bless you. Call anytime. Uh, let's go, uh, out to Oklahoma. Brian, go ahead.
Brian: Hey, good morning. Thanks for thanks for taking my call. Uh, just, can you hear me?
Rob West: Yes, sir.
Brian: So, just, uh, uh, wanted to get some advice, um, like I told the young lady when when I called in, uh, planning on retiring next year in December '27. In December, I'll be 62 in October. Uh, my wife will be 65 in April of next year. Um, so, my wife's never had a, uh—of course, I don't like saying she never had a job, 'cause she's took care of our home. And done a tremendous job of doing that, so. For the 36—right, 36 years of our marriage, I've I've always, financially took care of the the family. Uh, she's not had to go outside the home to work. And, um, so we've—and I've put up, besides my 401(k), I've put up money over the years, uh, just listening to my dad when I was a young, young man. So, 42 years in in the job that I'm in, of course, I've moved up over the years. Uh, and anyway, the reason I'm wanting to retire early [clears throat] is because I want to help in the ministry more at our church, with our school that we have there, and and all those things. So, I'm I've been preparing for the last year and a half for all of this, uh, looking into the Social Security, looking into the the Medicare and all that stuff. My question, I Most the money that I've got, uh, I put in Edward Jones. And Edward Jones's advice to me was not to draw my Social Security till 67. And I never I I I'm I struggle with that because I know why I, in a sense, I know why they're telling me that. But then I I met this guy who I was talking to about—he's a he's a Medicare professional, to help me with the Medicare side of things. And the company is, uh, MDRT, uh, I don't even know how to pronounce that, Medrit Medrit?
Rob West: Okay.
Brian: That sound familiar?
Rob West: I'm not familiar with it, but that's okay. Go ahead.
Brian: So, they're a financial company, too, and we kind of got into the financial side of things, and he was telling me that, uh, you know, the reason they don't want me to do that is because they're going to make more money on my investments if it stays where it's at. I'm not looking to get rich. I'm not looking—I told him, I said, "Well, listen, my goal is not to have—I just want to be make sure that me and my wife are secure." She has a lot of medical issues. My wife has a lot of, uh, medical problems; I don't. And I want to make sure that if something happens to me that she's took care of. And, uh, we've always been big givers to the church, love missionaries. I am a—I love our missionaries. I have a lot of respect for missionaries and what they do. So, we support them big time and, and of course, our tithe and everything. Uh, God's been so good to us. And I want to be smart in what I do for our well-being, to make sure that I don't do something dumb. So, my question is, I know Edward Jones has been around a long time; I looked up the history of this company, they're they're celebrating 100 years. But I I he made it sound like, "Hey, you could re- you can draw your Social Security at 62. I can guarantee you, if you put everything in us, I can give—you'll have this kind of outcome." And and it, you know, the, well, Satan sometimes, and I've been praying and and I reached out to my pastor, got him praying for me, but I just wanted some financial advice. Should I stay where I'm at and leave it alone with Edward Jones, or should I should I try this deal?
Rob West: Yes. Uh, first of all, Brian, thank you for sharing your story, and I appreciate you giving testimony to God's faithfulness and for your heart for missions. That's that's powerful, and I couldn't agree more, and, clearly, that's on the heart of God, and you're doing God's work as you fund the advancement of the gospel through uh those precious uh people who are giving their lives uh to take the gospel to the ends of the earth. Listen, we're all missionaries, but, uh, you know, they uh obviously are in many cases on the front lines, and they need our prayers, and they need our financial support, and so that's great. Um, in terms of what you've described here, first of all, let me just say, I I would agree with you about Edward Jones, a a phenomenal organization. Interestingly, they have more Certified Kingdom Advisors at Edward Jones than any of the major Wall Street firms in the nation. Um, so that just gives you some sense of their support for advisors who are Christ followers. Uh, they're also a very reputable organization. In terms of the advice given, I would align more with the counsel—and and I know just a little bit about your story that you've shared here today, but just given what you've described—I would align more with the counsel of the Edward Jones advisor than I would the other advisor that you've met. Because, for a couple of reasons: number one, if you're in good health, and what's and you want to prov- uh provide for your wife, uh if you were to pass away, and and us guys will on the average predecease our wives by, you know, 5 to 7 years or more, um, one of the best things you can do is to ensure that the survivor's benefit that she receives, meaning your Social Security benefit, is as high as it can possibly be. And if you wait and allow that benefit to increase, your wife is going to get more down the road. And by waiting until full retirement age, your benefits grow by about 8% per year guaranteed, which is also the problem that I have with the other gentleman you spoke about, which is he used the word guarantee with regard to his investments. I think you said he told you, "If you take it early and give it to me, I can guarantee you'll do better." He can't do that. Nobody—and maybe he didn't use that word, but if he did, I would, uh, I'd be very uh concerned, because nobody can guarantee anything when it comes to investing. So, bottom line, I like the idea, if you're healthy and you're trying to shore up your uh provision for your wife in the future, especially if you're gone, I like the idea of you waiting until at least full retirement age 67 to get that check up as much as you can so that that will last for the rest of your life and hers as a survivor's benefit. So, I hope that helps you, Brian, and and gives you another perspective here. It's at least my perspective on what I've heard today. God bless you, my friend. Hey, stay on the line. I want to send you a copy of my devotional, Our Ultimate Treasure. I think it'll be an encouragement to you. God bless you. Well, that's going to do it for us. Big thanks to my team today: Patty, Pat, Devon, Sandy, Taylor, and everybody here at FaithFi that makes this possible. Go out and live for Jesus, live as a faithful steward, come back and join us tomorrow, we'll do it all over again. Until then, may God bless you. Bye-bye.
Speaker: The views and opinions expressed in this broadcast may not necessarily reflect those of the American Family Association or American Family Radio.
Rob West: The late Larry Burkett once said, "Money is either the best or the worst area of communication in our marriages." Hi, I'm Rob West. Few things reveal the strength of a couple's unity quite like money, but what if your finances were rooted in oneness and Kingdom impact? Today, I'll talk with Dr. Art Rainer about how to become a truly rich couple, and then it's on to your calls at 800-525-7000. That's 800-525-7000. This is Faith & Finance on American Family Radio, biblical wisdom for your financial journey.
Well, it's always a pleasure to have my friend Art Rainer in the studio. Art is the founder of the Institute for Christian Financial Health and Christian Money Solutions. He's also the author of several books on biblical finance, including The Rich Couple: 30 Days of Following God's Design for a Financially Healthy Marriage. Art, great to have you back.
Art Rainer: Rob, it is always an honor, so thank you so much for having me.
Rob West: Well, it's my privilege. Art, let's dive in. I love this book, and you use an interesting phrase in it. You say "a financially rich couple"—I've already referred to it at least once here in the open. Explain that for us. What do you mean?
Art Rainer: Yeah, great question. And I'm very clear in the book about this. So a rich couple isn't necessarily one with the biggest bank account. It is a couple that is rich in contentment and purpose. They recognize that everything they have belongs to God, and they find joy in faithfully stewarding His resources rather than constantly chasing after more. So they're united around a shared mission, they are generous with what they have been given, and they are free from the endless comparison and discontent that money can create. You know, financial wealth can disappear, but contentment in Christ and purpose rooted in God's Kingdom creates a richness that lasts, and that is the kind of wealth every couple should pursue.
Rob West: Absolutely. I love that. What a beautiful picture. Now you encourage couples to decide to be one. So, practically speaking, what does it look like to move from "mine and yours" to this mindset that reflects the picture of marriage that God designed for us, that's really about "ours" and not "mine and yours"?
Art Rainer: Oh, I love that question. Yeah, moving from "mine and yours" to "ours" begins with recognizing that marriage is a covenant, not a contract. So in Genesis 2:24, we're told that a husband and a wife become one flesh, and that includes every part of their lives, including their finances. So practically that means combining accounts, sharing passwords, and embracing complete financial transparency. So my encouragement to couples is to schedule a brief monthly meeting huddle to review your financial goals and to make decisions together, establish a "no surprises" spending threshold—so if a purchase exceeds that amount, then you need to send a quick text to your spouse first—and then finally, change your language. You know, start with saying our income, or our debt, and our generosity. You know, unity grows through intentional habits, and so I encourage couples to chase after that.
Rob West: Yeah, unity is so key, and it's so foreign to so many couples, especially in this area of money. But this idea of a team sport with regard to marriage is so key, and that's the number one mindset shift that you share in the book. Describe that a bit further.
Art Rainer: Yeah, so marriage is a team sport. My family, we're all about sports, and so I like that analogy. And your spouse is supposed to be your number one teammate. So that means your loyalty belongs to one another—not to your parents, not to your children (we love them), not to your friends (we love them), but that's not where your loyalty lies. You can disagree with your spouse behind closed doors, but when you step outside, you present a united front. And that builds trust, because each spouse knows the decisions won't be reversed in the parking lot or, you know, undermined by outside voices. For example, if your in-laws encourage an expensive purchase, a healthy response would be, "You know, thanks for the suggestion. We'll talk it over and we'll let you know." So that is what Team Number One looks like: protecting unity before everything else.
Rob West: Oh, I love that. Having a unified front and really being of one mind and heart. Doesn't mean we won't have disagreements; it also doesn't mean that as we talk about our values and our priorities, they're always going to align. But we need to be committed to finding oneness at the end of the day and driving toward unity, and that needs to include in our financial lives as well.
Well, when we come back with Dr. Art Rainer today, we're going to continue to unpack this. What about that knot in your stomach when the conversation turns to money? We're going to give you some ideas, some practical ways to ease that tension. We'll also talk about some of the marriage dividers and how you get past those as well. Art Rainer's here today; we're talking a financially healthy marriage. Much more after this, stick around.
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Rob West: When couples decide to be one, money can become less of a source of tension and more of a tool for unity and Kingdom impact. That's certainly God's heart in marriage. We're talking about that today, a financially healthy marriage. With us is my friend Art Rainer. Art is the founder of the Institute for Christian Financial Health and Christian Money Solutions. He's also the author of the book The Rich Couple: 30 Days of Following God's Design for a Financially Healthy Marriage. You can buy it wherever you buy books.
Art, we've been describing these mindset shifts that are so key, and you know, as folks are listening to this topic, I'm sure there's some listeners that are remembering that knot in their stomach that they sense every time the conversation turns to money. In your book, you offer a practical way to ease that tension. Explain that to our listeners.
Art Rainer: Yeah, Rob, and that is so very common. One of the best ways to reduce financial tension is to share your money stories. So, our past experiences with money shape our present fears, our habits, and impulses. So as couples, you want to talk through those stories. Help your spouse understand your money personality, whether you're naturally a spender, a saver, an investor, or an ignorer. That understanding creates empathy instead of frustration. Suddenly it's not "Why are you like this?", but "Now I understand why that purchase makes you so anxious." It also helps couples divide financial responsibilities according to their strengths. So instead of, you know, allowing childhood baggage to create hidden conflict, money stories transform it into a shared strategy for moving forward. So share your money stories; that's big.
Rob West: Mm, yeah, that is so key. And Art, you know, so much of the way we handle money was shaped by how it was modeled for us growing up, by how God has wired us, including our temperament. How is getting that out on the table with your spouse and talking about some of those early memories of money and coming to an understanding of what drives our money decisions individually—how is that important to drive toward unity as a couple?
Art Rainer: Well, it helps you to understand where your spouse is coming from. It provides a sense of empathy. So as your spouse is coming to the table with a desire maybe to save a little bit more, to have a little bit more in the emergency fund—and maybe that's not your natural bent; maybe you're more of a spender, or an investor, or maybe you're an ignorer—you understand where they are coming from. And so it's not this, "Oh, I can't believe you're saying this," it's actually an "Oh, I understand why you are saying this." And it helps create empathy, and hopefully, it creates a better line of communication for you and your spouse.
Rob West: Yeah, I think that's right on. If you haven't done this, maybe the next time you're on a money date or talking about money, just answer the question, each of you: "What was your earliest memory of money?" And see how what comes to mind isn't still playing out in how you each handle money today.
All right, Art, let's turn to generosity. You list it among your first money milestones. Why is that the best place to begin? I have an idea, but I'm curious!
Art Rainer: I think you do! So I begin with generosity because that's where the Bible starts, okay? This is not an Art Rainer idea. So throughout Scripture, God calls His people to recognize that He owns everything and that we are the managers of what He has entrusted to us. So that's why Money Milestone 1 is to start giving. It redirects the heart before it redirects the budget. It gives couples a shared purpose that they can celebrate together while protecting them from lifestyle creep as their income continues to grow. So financial health begins with faithful stewardship, and faithful stewardship begins with generosity, not bigger bank accounts.
Rob West: Yeah, that's well said. Speaking of those milestones, I think it might be helpful to just unpack those quickly. What are the eight money milestones couples can use to track their progress?
Art Rainer: Yeah, so the eight money milestones that we use is just a guide; it helps us answer that question, "What financial step is next?"
So it starts with generosity, and it ends with generosity.
Rob West: And there's actually a book on all of that, right?
Art Rainer: Correct. Yeah, that can be found in The Money Challenge, or it's also found in The Rich Couple. So either of those two books provide you with the eight money milestones.
Rob West: Okay, excellent. It's so helpful. Which of the money milestones, Art, tends to trip couples up the most, and what have you found helps to get unstuck?
Art Rainer: So the very first one that tends to trip couples up is actually Money Milestone 1, because oftentimes I'll meet with couples—I do financial counseling, I meet with couples—and they're not on the same page with the biblical foundation for financial health, and that is generosity. They have not discussed what to give, how much to give, when to give. And so if we can establish that baseline, then it goes a long way toward building everything else in their financial life. So it starts with generosity.
Rob West: Mm, yeah, that's helpful. You warn couples about what you call the four "marriage dividers," and I want to unpack those for a moment. I think these are really helpful.
Art Rainer: Yeah. So the four biggest marriage dividers around money are:
So, poor communication is addressed by having a simple, weekly, 10-minute money conversation before you ever open a spreadsheet. Selfishness fades when couples stop thinking in terms of "my money" and start celebrating each other's wins. Distrust is overcome through complete transparency—we're talking about shared accounts, shared passwords, and agreed-upon spending guidelines. Unrealistic expectations are replaced with a realistic, shared financial plan that's reviewed regularly. So ultimately, one principle that ties this all together is to bring everything into the light: talk early, and pray often.
Rob West: That's so good. If someone's listening today, Art, and they say, "You know, I love what you're talking about, but that just doesn't even seem possible in my marriage. We're miles apart." What would you say to begin turning that around?
Art Rainer: Well, don't start with the budget. Start with your hearts. So pray together. In The Rich Couple, I encourage couples to begin with this simple prayer: "Lord, help us to be one. Help us experience the contentment and purpose that You desire for us. Thank You for allowing us to be a part of Your mission. Please help us steward Your possessions well, leveraging them for the advancement of Your Kingdom." And then, I encourage couples to spend 15 minutes sharing their money stories without interrupting or judging each other. And then finally, take one small step together, such as opening a joint savings account with $50. The small acts of unity can create lasting momentum.
Rob West: Yeah, that is so good. Well, Art, I really appreciate your insights. This is such an important topic, and folks, I would love for you to pick up a copy of this book. It's called The Rich Couple: 30 Days of Following God's Design for a Financially Healthy Marriage. You can buy it wherever you buy books. You can also head over to christianmoneysolutions.com. That's christianmoneysolutions.com. Art, thanks for your time today.
Art Rainer: Thanks for having me.
Rob West: That's Art Rainer, founder of the Institute for Christian Financial Health and Christian Money Solutions. Again, the title of this book: The Rich Couple: 30 Days of Following God's Design for a Financially Healthy Marriage.
All right, a quick break, and then back with your questions: 800-525-7000. That's 800-525-7000. Or, if you'd prefer to email your questions, send it to us at [email protected]. Stick around.
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Rob West: I'm so glad you're with us today on Faith & Finance here on American Family Radio. I'm Rob West. We're taking your calls and questions today at that number, 800-525-7000. That's 800-525-7000. We would love to hear from you today and take your questions as we help you apply biblical wisdom to your financial decisions. You know, if you think about it, money is a good gift from a good God. It's to enjoy and provide. And think about this: when we hold it loosely and give it generously or invest it strategically in a way that aligns with our values, we have the opportunity to not only love our neighbor and advance the common good, we have an opportunity to advance the gospel. You know, I was reading this morning in my own quiet time in Luke chapter 8 about Chuza and Mary and Susanna, and it said they funded ministry out of their means. So they took the gift from God—money—and used it to fund ministry. What ministry, you ask? Well, it was Jesus' ministry! They were funding the disciples; they were funding the work of our Lord through their means. I mean, that is the perfect, the classic example of how money can become a means for gospel advancement. And that same thing exists for you and I today.
Rob West: But it requires that we live within God's provision. It requires that we have margin or surplus. It requires that we don't consume it all on our lifestyle. It requires that we be intentional and realize we're accountable and be held to faithfulness as our goal as stewards. But we have an opportunity. Now, on the flip side, we also see in scripture that money can become an idol very quickly, especially in the most prosperous nation in the history of the world. So you and I need to be on our guard that it doesn't become the creation we worship over the Creator. But when it's in its rightful place, wow, we can do incredible things. That's what we want to do each day on this program. By the way, one of those incredible things you can do, in addition to funding the work of American Family Association and FaithFi—and certainly your local church would come first—you have an opportunity to partner with us to fund Preborn. You know, between now and August the 31st, we've asked Faith & Finance listeners to step up once again—and I know you do this each year in partnership with AFR—but for this month and through August 31st, here at Faith & Finance, we're trying to fund 1,500 free ultrasounds so moms can see their babies, choose life, and be presented the gospel. Preborn is doing incredible work; many of you already know that.
Rob West: So, if you'd like to be a part of helping us reach that goal, 1,500 ultrasounds funded by August 31st, every $28 given when you go to faithfi.com/preborn will go right to that project. Faithfi.com/preborn. By the way, that $28, 100% of it goes to fund those free ultrasounds. It's not any administrative cost baked into that. By the way, also, if you have some surplus and you wanted to make a gift to buy one of those ultrasound machines to place in one of these pregnancy centers, $15,000 will do that. You can make that gift as well; we're looking for two of those between now and August 31st. Again, faithfi.com/preborn. All right, I'm going to get off my little sermon here this morning and take your questions. We do have lines open, our team is ready for you, so call right now: 800-525-7000. We'd love to hear from you today. We're going to begin in Virginia today. Savannah, how can I help you?
Savannah: Good morning, Rob, and thank you so much for all you all do.
Rob West: Thank you.
Savannah: I appreciate you helping me with a question regarding distribution of a settlement money from a hit-and-run. When someone is involved in a hit-and-run and following the settlement from the injuries and the trauma sustained are finalized, how is the settlement considered when distributed if you're on Social Security? I'm a middle-aged woman. Is it taxable? Does it fall under certain language or category on tax filings? There's a couple other questions: Is it considered income? Does it vary from state to state? Those are kind of the realm of what I'm trying to ask, I should say. Yeah.
Rob West: Yeah, and you're on regular Social Security, not SSDI, correct?
Savannah: I am on regular Social Security at this time. Yes.
Rob West: Yeah. Okay, yeah, very good. Well, first of all, I'm so sorry to hear about what you've gone through. And the good news is that, based on what you've described here—a hit-and-run accident, physical injuries, and trauma—the general rule is the settlement is not subject to federal income tax if it's compensation for physical injuries. That includes amounts for medical expenses and pain and suffering related to the physical injury. The portion that would be taxable is if there's ever any interest paid on the settlement, any punitive damages, or compensation for lost wages in many cases. But if it's just pain and suffering related to the accident, then you would not have anything related to federal taxes. In terms of state taxes, most states follow the federal tax treatment, meaning the same would apply: compensation for physical injuries or physical sickness is generally not subject to state tax either.
Rob West: In terms of Social Security, because that's not taxable at the federal level, receiving the settlement itself does not reduce or affect regular Social Security benefits. Now, if part of it was taxable—and as I mentioned, often for interest paid on it or punitive damages—now, that could increase your taxable income for the year, and that could cause a larger portion of your Social Security benefits to be taxable, or it could affect your IRMAA on your Medicare premiums. But again, because what we're describing here is likely not taxable, it should have no bearing.
Savannah: Okay. And as you said, it doesn't vary from state to state? Or no, does federal...
Rob West: It does, so you'd want to check with your CPA, but typically states follow the federal tax treatment, so that's what you're going to find in most cases.
Savannah: Okay. Well, I so appreciate your answers today.
Rob West: Well, I'm delighted to be able to help you. Go ahead.
Savannah: Yes, thank you for all you all are doing for the Kingdom. We appreciate you.
Rob West: Well, I appreciate you, Savannah. Thanks for calling that out. Stay on the line. I want to send you a copy of the latest issue of our magazine, Faithful Steward, just as our gift to you. I think you'll enjoy it, find some articles that are helpful, and certainly, they'll take you back into God's Word. We appreciate your call today and your kind remarks about the program. A quick break and back with more questions: 800-525-7000. Call right now.
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Rob West: Delighted to have you with us today on Faith & Finance here on American Family Radio. Thrilled that Art Rainer stopped by today. Art was in our first couple of segments today talking about money and marriage. You know, when we think about money and marriage, it's an opportunity to bring to the table our unique backgrounds, how God has wired us, our temperament, also how money was handled growing up and what we saw modeled, whether there was intentionality behind it or not, affects what you bring to the marriage relationship. Often we see a spender and a saver come together, and that can create some conflict. But if we work through that and find understanding with good, open communication, living within our means, creating a spending plan not to control one spouse or the other, but to align the resources God has entrusted to you as one flesh, a married couple, toward God's purposes, His vision, your values as Christ followers, it gives a plan. Now, inside that plan, you can still have flexibility. You know, you can have a line item in the budget for each of you to express your own hobbies and interests and ideas. It's not about, again, controlling; it's about saying, "Okay, we want to be faithful stewards. We need unity—that's God's plan for marriage. That means we need to have a spending plan that reflects where God is taking us so that we give every dollar a job and allow it to go toward those things that are most important to us." But we've got to do that together. That just doesn't happen by accident. So, a lot of great wisdom from Art Rainer today. He's a regular here, and for good reason. All right, we're taking your phone calls today. I've got three lines open. If you've got a question, we'll get to as many as we can today. 800-525-7000, you can call right now. Let's go out to Texas. Will, thanks for your call. Go ahead.
Will: Good morning.
Rob West: Hi there.
Will: You really put me in a quandary this morning. I knew I was going to call you this morning and make a comment about Movement Mortgage. I'd heard about them on your program, oh, a long time back. Finally was able to get through to them. I want you to know they are such a joy to work with.
Rob West: Oh, wow.
Will: They helped us immensely—Harlan and Pearl. Matter of fact, I got my first statement last week. I had some questions; I texted Pearl, and we had a Zoom meeting on Monday: Harlan and Pearl, and Linda, my wife, and I. And they are such a—they are not in the business of getting people to do this; they're in the business of helping people. I did it—I did it. I'm about to be 80 years old. I serve on church staff, I have for over 50 years. I said, "I think it's time to retire," so that's why I did this. Well, God's not going to let me retire. [Laughter] I'm going to keep pastoring. I also work with our teenagers in our church. I have been working with teenagers for over 50 years. Matter of fact, I'm about to be 80, my wife's about to be 79, and we just took our kids to youth camp. And I'm known as the O.O.G.—the "Old, Old Guy." [Laughter] And my wife calls me the oldest youth minister in Texas. But I love working with teenagers. But, I turned the radio on this morning knowing I'm going to call you about this, and you happen to have this fellow on your program this morning. I wished I'd had his book years ago, cause I'd love to have had those eight points. But as he was talking, my wife and I are a rich couple—not because we've ever had a lot of money; we've never had a lot of money. And there's been times when we were—I was without work between churches, and God has taken care of us. But it all began—I came to Christ in Vietnam when I was nearly 25 years old. The Sunday I accepted Christ in Vietnam, my wife rededicated her life. She did not—we didn't know what was going on in each other's lives. She was afraid to write me because she thought—she told me she'd rededicated her life—that I would divorce her, because I told her, "We're not doing this church thing ever."
Rob West: Wow.
Will: But every month, she would send me a letter: "Here's how much money she made, here's how much money I had sent her from the Army, here's what the bills were, and here's what was left over." Well, she said, "Oh, by the way, I'm now tithing." Well, I'm 8,000 miles away; I can't stop her. [Laughter] But I know what a tithe is. The next month: "Here's how much money we have, here's what the bills were," and what was left didn't change! I went, "Wait a minute. I don't understand this." But giving has always, always been a major part of our lives of faith. We discuss it. We not only tithe, but we give up—matter of fact, we're in the process of getting our will put together and trying to decide exactly where to do everything. You know, we want to leave our house probably, maybe to AFR possibly; we're still looking at all of that. But giving is a big part. I do wish—like I said, I do wish I'd had all those eight points, because there's some things in there I wish I'd known about that I didn't know about. But I wanted—just those two points, you know: if folks are thinking about a reverse mortgage, I had heard over the years this is not a good thing to do, but after on your program and dealing with them, it's a wonderful thing to do, and it's a great help to us. But also, thank you for the program this morning. It's such a blessing, and my wife and I just—I immediately went in and said, "Are you listening?" because she was in the other bathroom. She said, "I am." I said, "You realize they're talking about us?"
Rob West: Yes.
Will: And I'm not bragging about that. That's just who we are. We discuss finances. We don't make any big purchases. We are completely out of debt.
Rob West: Wow.
Will: And Rob, we've never—like I've served in church part-time, and she's a retired school teacher. You know, financially, we're not rich, but God has taken care of us. Our needs have always been met. And we could give you story after story after story, but I'm not going to do that to you, because there's other folks trying to get through. But I did want those two things.
Rob West: Well, I'm so glad you called, Will. You just preached a sermon to us, and I'm delighted you did, because you gave testimony to God's faithfulness. And I'm so grateful for what you just modeled for us in terms of this idea that we read about in Psalm 92, where it says, "They still bear fruit in old age; they are ever full of sap and green." And God calls our later years a crown of wisdom, not a sign of fading value, and you're leaning in and using the wisdom and experiences and your understanding of God's Word to invest in not only those around you, but I love how you're investing in the next generation. God is using you and your wife; He's used you just this morning as you've given testimony to tens of thousands listening to this program right now as to His provision and His faithfulness. And I'm so thankful for your testimony today, Will: It was a gift to us, and I'm so honored that you listen to the program regularly. I would love to send you a copy of my devotional. It's called Our Ultimate Treasure, and perhaps—in fact, I'll send you two copies: one for you and one for your wife. And maybe you all can use it to start each day for the next three weeks just getting into God's Word and understanding His heart. You're going to recognize the principles because you've been living them out, but I hope it'll be an encouragement to you. And thank you for calling out our friends at Movement Mortgage. I couldn't agree more about their desire to educate, to serve, to love God's people, not to sell. And we've seen that modeled so many times, and yet again today through your story. So, thank you for your testimony, sir.
Will: Thank you.
Rob West: All right. Lord bless you. Hang on the line—
Will: I'm really glad—yes, I'm really glad I called this morning, because I got to hear your program this morning, and that really touched us. So, thank you.
Rob West: Well, excellent. Well, you're welcome. Listen, hold the line. My team is going to get your information. We're going to send you two copies of Our Ultimate Treasure, my devotional, and I hope it'll be a blessing to you. Call back anytime if we can help you. Lord bless you. Well, folks, that's why we do what we do right there—not because of what we're accomplishing, but what God's accomplishing through the teaching of His Word around this idea of stewardship. A quick break and back with more questions after this. Stick around.
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Rob West: Great to have you with us today on Faith & Finance here on American Family Radio. We're taking your questions today. If you've got something you're thinking about in your financial life, call right now: 800-525-7000. That's 800-525-7000. Let's head back to the phones. Out to Texas. Ramon, how can I help you?
Ramon: Yes, uh, I had a question about, uh, a old, uh, uh, car—I have a car loan and a house payment. And I was thinking of getting a, uh, some kind of loan to consolidate both of those and just have one payment.
Rob West: Hmm. Yes. Yeah, what what type of, uh, loans would you be consolidating?
Ramon: Uh, a auto loan—
Rob West: Okay.
Ramon: —and a mortgage loan.
Rob West: Okay. So, let's talk about each of those. So, what is that auto loan? How much do you owe, and what is the interest rate?
Ramon: I owe $11,380. And it's at, uh, 5.7, I think.
Rob West: Okay. And what is your current mortgage?
Ramon: Uh, that one, uh, it's at 13,900. And that's at, uh, 4.7—or four, 4.3, I think it is.
Rob West: 4.3. And what would you be looking at in terms of a new loan that would roll these two together? How much would you be borrowing, and at what interest rate?
Ramon: Uh, well, just to pay those two off, those two amounts off.
Rob West: Yeah, so are you looking at getting a home equity line of credit, or what, what is it you would get to roll these together?
Ramon: Well, well, I don't know which is the best loan or which direction to go, or which is the best way, but, you know.
Rob West: Okay. So, you're just considering this at this point; you really haven't looked into it.
Ramon: Yes, sir. Yes.
Rob West: Okay. Yeah, I I would be very cautious about consolidating for a couple of reasons. Number one is, you know, any new mortgage you have is going to be, certainly, higher than that 4.3, and probably, uh, still higher even than the 5.7, uh, because, you know, even if you go get a home equity line of credit, which is, you know, usually going to be the most cost-effective, um, you know, rates right now are still in the sixes. And so, you would be talking about rolling these two together and increasing the interest rate. So, that's number one. Number two is, a lot of times, you know, whereas a car loan might be a 5-year payback, a lot of times, you know, folks will go into 10, 15 years, or longer with a home equity line of credit. Sometimes they're just paying interest-only and don't even pay the principal. Uh, the the third reason is that I wouldn't encourage you to do this is that that car loan is secured by the car. So, if something happened in your financial life unexpectedly, you lost a job or income, and you could no longer make the payment, you certainly don't want a repossession, voluntary or otherwise, but at least the collateral damage is limited to the car and and any kind of judgment if you if the car is not worth what you owe on it. But you're not losing your home. And, you know, if you roll this all into a new loan that's, uh, secured by the house, now something comes up, and you're not able to make the payment, and now your home is at risk. So, I think, for those reasons, I would, um, you know, avoid this. I'm, generally speaking, not a fan of consolidation loans, just because they they tend to take the pressure off, you get less focused on paying them back as quickly, and especially if you're going to actually go up, rather than down, on the interest, I just don't think this makes sense for you. But any thoughts on that, Ramon, or anything I'm missing here?
Ramon: No, you you you shed light on that that subject. I mean, I I didn't know that, uh—uh, thank you for your advice, sir. I really appreciate that.
Rob West: Absolutely, Ramon. It's—it was a good question, and I understand why you're considering it, but I would pass. I think the key for you, just like all of us, is to really go back to that spending plan, look for opportunities where you can cut back where possible, and just, you know, really focus on, you know, if you pay the the the scheduled payment on the mortgage and the car—we got to do that at a minimum—but if you have the ability, assuming you have an emergency fund and you are on track in saving for retirement, any surplus, um, you know, I would look at prepaying that car to try to get that one paid off as quick as you can, because that's the highest interest rate. But I wouldn't I wouldn't touch those loans. Hey, thanks for calling, sir. Lord bless you. Call anytime. Uh, let's go, uh, out to Oklahoma. Brian, go ahead.
Brian: Hey, good morning. Thanks for thanks for taking my call. Uh, just, can you hear me?
Rob West: Yes, sir.
Brian: So, just, uh, uh, wanted to get some advice, um, like I told the young lady when when I called in, uh, planning on retiring next year in December '27. In December, I'll be 62 in October. Uh, my wife will be 65 in April of next year. Um, so, my wife's never had a, uh—of course, I don't like saying she never had a job, 'cause she's took care of our home. And done a tremendous job of doing that, so. For the 36—right, 36 years of our marriage, I've I've always, financially took care of the the family. Uh, she's not had to go outside the home to work. And, um, so we've—and I've put up, besides my 401(k), I've put up money over the years, uh, just listening to my dad when I was a young, young man. So, 42 years in in the job that I'm in, of course, I've moved up over the years. Uh, and anyway, the reason I'm wanting to retire early [clears throat] is because I want to help in the ministry more at our church, with our school that we have there, and and all those things. So, I'm I've been preparing for the last year and a half for all of this, uh, looking into the Social Security, looking into the the Medicare and all that stuff. My question, I Most the money that I've got, uh, I put in Edward Jones. And Edward Jones's advice to me was not to draw my Social Security till 67. And I never I I I'm I struggle with that because I know why I, in a sense, I know why they're telling me that. But then I I met this guy who I was talking to about—he's a he's a Medicare professional, to help me with the Medicare side of things. And the company is, uh, MDRT, uh, I don't even know how to pronounce that, Medrit Medrit?
Rob West: Okay.
Brian: That sound familiar?
Rob West: I'm not familiar with it, but that's okay. Go ahead.
Brian: So, they're a financial company, too, and we kind of got into the financial side of things, and he was telling me that, uh, you know, the reason they don't want me to do that is because they're going to make more money on my investments if it stays where it's at. I'm not looking to get rich. I'm not looking—I told him, I said, "Well, listen, my goal is not to have—I just want to be make sure that me and my wife are secure." She has a lot of medical issues. My wife has a lot of, uh, medical problems; I don't. And I want to make sure that if something happens to me that she's took care of. And, uh, we've always been big givers to the church, love missionaries. I am a—I love our missionaries. I have a lot of respect for missionaries and what they do. So, we support them big time and, and of course, our tithe and everything. Uh, God's been so good to us. And I want to be smart in what I do for our well-being, to make sure that I don't do something dumb. So, my question is, I know Edward Jones has been around a long time; I looked up the history of this company, they're they're celebrating 100 years. But I I he made it sound like, "Hey, you could re- you can draw your Social Security at 62. I can guarantee you, if you put everything in us, I can give—you'll have this kind of outcome." And and it, you know, the, well, Satan sometimes, and I've been praying and and I reached out to my pastor, got him praying for me, but I just wanted some financial advice. Should I stay where I'm at and leave it alone with Edward Jones, or should I should I try this deal?
Rob West: Yes. Uh, first of all, Brian, thank you for sharing your story, and I appreciate you giving testimony to God's faithfulness and for your heart for missions. That's that's powerful, and I couldn't agree more, and, clearly, that's on the heart of God, and you're doing God's work as you fund the advancement of the gospel through uh those precious uh people who are giving their lives uh to take the gospel to the ends of the earth. Listen, we're all missionaries, but, uh, you know, they uh obviously are in many cases on the front lines, and they need our prayers, and they need our financial support, and so that's great. Um, in terms of what you've described here, first of all, let me just say, I I would agree with you about Edward Jones, a a phenomenal organization. Interestingly, they have more Certified Kingdom Advisors at Edward Jones than any of the major Wall Street firms in the nation. Um, so that just gives you some sense of their support for advisors who are Christ followers. Uh, they're also a very reputable organization. In terms of the advice given, I would align more with the counsel—and and I know just a little bit about your story that you've shared here today, but just given what you've described—I would align more with the counsel of the Edward Jones advisor than I would the other advisor that you've met. Because, for a couple of reasons: number one, if you're in good health, and what's and you want to prov- uh provide for your wife, uh if you were to pass away, and and us guys will on the average predecease our wives by, you know, 5 to 7 years or more, um, one of the best things you can do is to ensure that the survivor's benefit that she receives, meaning your Social Security benefit, is as high as it can possibly be. And if you wait and allow that benefit to increase, your wife is going to get more down the road. And by waiting until full retirement age, your benefits grow by about 8% per year guaranteed, which is also the problem that I have with the other gentleman you spoke about, which is he used the word guarantee with regard to his investments. I think you said he told you, "If you take it early and give it to me, I can guarantee you'll do better." He can't do that. Nobody—and maybe he didn't use that word, but if he did, I would, uh, I'd be very uh concerned, because nobody can guarantee anything when it comes to investing. So, bottom line, I like the idea, if you're healthy and you're trying to shore up your uh provision for your wife in the future, especially if you're gone, I like the idea of you waiting until at least full retirement age 67 to get that check up as much as you can so that that will last for the rest of your life and hers as a survivor's benefit. So, I hope that helps you, Brian, and and gives you another perspective here. It's at least my perspective on what I've heard today. God bless you, my friend. Hey, stay on the line. I want to send you a copy of my devotional, Our Ultimate Treasure. I think it'll be an encouragement to you. God bless you. Well, that's going to do it for us. Big thanks to my team today: Patty, Pat, Devon, Sandy, Taylor, and everybody here at FaithFi that makes this possible. Go out and live for Jesus, live as a faithful steward, come back and join us tomorrow, we'll do it all over again. Until then, may God bless you. Bye-bye.
Speaker: The views and opinions expressed in this broadcast may not necessarily reflect those of the American Family Association or American Family Radio.
The late Larry Burkett once said, “Money is either the best or the worst area of communication in our marriages.” Few things reveal the strength of a couple’s unity quite like money. But what if your finances are rooted in oneness and Kingdom impact? On this Faith & Finance on AFR, Rob West and Dr. Art Rainer discuss how to become a truly “rich couple.” Then, it’s on to calls.
(00:00) Rob West & Art Reiner discuss God’s plan for a financially healthy marriage
(08:30) Rob West & Art Reiner continue their discussion on God’s plan for a financially healthy marriage including the 8 money milestones:
Money Milestone 1: Start giving
Money Milestone 2: Save $1,500 for a minor emergency
Money Milestone 3: Max out your 401(k) or 403(b) match
Money Milestone 4: Pay off all of your debt except for your mortgage
Money Milestone 5: Save 3 to 6 months' worth of living expenses for a job-loss level emergency (so that's your traditional emergency fund)
Money Milestone 6: Put 15% of your gross income toward retirement
Money Milestone 7: Either save for your kids' college or pay off your mortgage
Money Milestone 8: Live and give more generously
(20:30) Rob West talks about giving strategically in a way that aligns with our values
(24:00) Caller Savannah: Is money from an insurance settlement taxable
(31:10) Rob West talks about beginning the program talking about managing finances as a couple
(33:00) Caller Will: Gives a testimony thanking FaithFi and Movement Mortgage
(42:10) Caller Romon: Considering a consolidation loan to pay off his car loan and mortgage
(47:00) Caller Brian: Preparing for retirement and considering where to hold his retirement accounts
Live
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