Rob West: For millions of vulnerable children around the world, shoes can mean the difference between going to school and staying home. Hi, I'm Rob West. For most families, a new pair of shoes is simply part of getting ready for another school year, but not everywhere. Today, Shawn Spurrier joins us to share how Buckner Shoes for Orphan Souls is helping children step into the classroom with health, dignity, and hope. And then it's on to your calls at 800-525-7000. That's 800-525-7000. This is Faith & Finance on American Family Radio, biblical wisdom for your financial decisions.
Rob West: Well, as you know, throughout the year, we have the privilege of partnering with several organizations doing incredible Kingdom work on the ground. And for the entire month of September, we're partnering with our friends at Buckner Shoes for Orphan Souls. Shawn Spurrier is the director of the program, and it is always great to have him with us. Shawn, welcome back.
Shawn Spurrier: Rob, so great to be back with you today.
Rob West: Shawn, for many families here in the US, a new pair of shoes is simply a part of getting ready for school. I know it was in our household. But for many children around the world and those that Buckner serves, having shoes can actually determine whether they're able to attend school at all. Help us understand why that is.
Shawn Spurrier: Yeah, Rob. You know, the most recent estimates show that there are about 300 million children throughout the world who lack access to adequate footwear. Tens of millions of those children today will not be in school because of that. In many countries throughout the world, shoes are mandatory for attending school, and that school is vital to their rising above poverty. And so, we have an opportunity to lower barriers to education by providing this simple gift. Additionally, shoes are also preventing injury and disease. You know, it's a pretty profound need where it's something that we just don't often think of on our own here in the States.
Rob West: That is so true, and that is significant—the idea that they can get an education and be protected from disease. But it actually goes beyond that. The impact goes well beyond the school, doesn't it?
Shawn Spurrier: It certainly does. You know, every pair of shoes that we provide, we have an opportunity to promote health. Like I said, we're preventing disease, we're lowering barriers to education, but we're also trying to plug children and families into opportunity and long-term programming. We're trying to give them a sense of dignity and confidence when they attend school, and kind of maybe even alleviate some of the social stigmas that children often experience in some of the countries we work in when they have some of these tropical or footborne illnesses. And then most importantly, providing shoes gives us an opportunity to affirm and communicate the love of Christ to that child.
Rob West: I know it's incredible. Shawn, I know you've been on many of these shoe distributions, and we'll talk about what that experience is like. I can only imagine. But I want to back up for a second because for someone hearing about Buckner Shoes for Orphan Souls for the first time, I'd love for you to give them a sense of how far this ministry reaches, and really the difference it's making in children's lives.
Shawn Spurrier: Absolutely. You know, Buckner Shoes for Orphan Souls is the largest humanitarian aid project of Buckner International. And since 1999, we've had the opportunity to collect around five and a quarter million pairs of shoes and distribute those in 86 countries throughout the world. And again, this is kind of a part of just Buckner International's larger mission of serving vulnerable children and families through a variety of programs. But man, when you consider that every pair of shoes is an opportunity to express the love of Christ, that's five and a quarter million opportunities we've had to do that. And again, promote health, education, opportunity. Make sure that children are in schools and that families are achieving sustainability through these programs. And so, yeah, it's a small piece of a big puzzle, but it's a really important one.
Rob West: It really is, and that's why we're so honored to have this partnership all month long throughout the month of September. Now, tell us where Buckner is serving today and just give us a sense of some of the places around the world where these shoes are making their way to children.
Shawn Spurrier: Absolutely. So, we have programming in the United States and then in seven countries full-time outside of the United States throughout Latin America and Africa. So, places like Mexico, Guatemala, Honduras, Dominican Republic, Peru, Kenya, and Ethiopia. And some of these places are extremely vulnerable and really difficult places, and often difficult for families to access some of these very basic needs, such as shoes.
Rob West: Well, folks, this is your opportunity today. Every $15 provides a pair of shoes that includes socks and the cost of getting the shoes to the child. Of course, $150 provides shoes for 10 children. Our goal during the month of September between Faith & Finance and Buckner Shoes for Orphan Souls: 1,000 pairs of shoes distributed to children worldwide. You can jump on board at giveshoestoday.org. That's giveshoestoday.org. Back with Shawn Spurrier after this. Stick around.
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Rob West: Thanks for joining us today on Faith & Finance on American Family Radio. For many children around the world, a pair of shoes is more than a back-to-school purchase. It can be the key to opening the classroom door, to protecting them from footborne illness, and to sharing the gospel of Jesus Christ. And that's why we've partnered with Buckner Shoes for Orphan Souls throughout the month of September to provide—are you ready for this?—1,000 pairs of shoes to children worldwide. That includes the pair of socks; it also includes the cost of shipping to get the shoes to the child.
If you'd like to be a part of it, every $15 given provides a pair of shoes and socks and the cost of transportation. Just go to giveshoestoday.org. That's giveshoestoday.org. And help us reach, or perhaps exceed, this goal of providing 1,000 pairs of shoes to vulnerable children around the world.
Joining me today is my friend Shawn Spurrier. Shawn is the director of this program, Buckner Shoes for Orphan Souls. And Shawn, we were talking about where this is happening around the world and some of the mechanics of it, but I'd love for you to share a story, perhaps a story that could help us appreciate the impact this program is having.
Shawn Spurrier: Yeah, absolutely. You know, Rob, just a couple years ago, we were distributing shoes outside of Oaxaca, Mexico, at one of our Family Hope Centers. And a colleague of mine, a friend, was distributing a pair of shoes, giving them to this little girl named Romina. She was about six years old.
And one of the things we do when we're distributing shoes is we'll get in front of the child, we'll wash their feet, and we'll talk to them and let them know that the Lord loves them, they're cared for, while we're while we're doing this process. And while my friend was was providing shoes for her, you know, about halfway through the process, you could tell she was getting a little emotional, and her little lip started quivering, and then by the time he had her shoes on, she was just in full-blown tears.
I'm a dad, I have an 11-year-old daughter; I kind of went into fix-it mode. I thought something was wrong. And I leaned over to our family coach, who was embracing Romina by this point, and just said, "Hey, is everything okay? Is there anything we can help with?" And she looked at me and she said, "No, Romina is overwhelmed with emotion that someone would think of her to provide her these new shoes."
And man, I can't think of the last time I've cried when I received a simple gift, or how many of us can? But that moment really kind of pulled me back toward what we do and why we do it.
One of the best parts of the story, though, is that over time, that engagement through those shoes gave her family the opportunity to plug in with our Buckner Family Hope Center. And they embraced that support, and they've experienced some real transformation. And I recently got to chat with our team on the ground there, and they said that Romina, who's now eight, is no longer this shy, anxious little girl, but she's a leader in her after-school programs, and that she's a girl who moves toward other children who are feeling left out or feeling like they're on the fringes, and ensuring that they feel included. She's praying with them at lunch and getting to lead out in those ways.
And even more than that, her family has now achieved sustainability economically, and in their spiritual life, and in their family, and they're going out and volunteering for local Buckner programs and encouraging other families to take part in the ministry.
And so, it's just one of those things where, you know, you never know what story a pair of shoes is going to enter into, and you don't know really the impact that it'll have until it gets there. But at minimum, we saw that Romina knew that she was loved and cared for and not forgotten, that somebody was thinking about her. But it also led to all this other fantastic transformation in their lives, and that's what we get to participate in when we're when we're providing this very simple, tangible gift.
Rob West: Wow! Folks, that's exactly why we're partnering with Buckner Shoes for Orphan Souls throughout this month of September and inviting you into this partnership so we can give, Lord willing, 1,000 pairs of shoes to vulnerable children in some part of the world so we can not only protect them from footborne illness and get them into school, but also introduce them to Jesus. Every $15 is going to help us deliver one pair of shoes, socks, and the cost to transport them. Giveshoestoday.org is the place to go to jump on board.
You mentioned something that I think is so key about this program, Shawn, and that is that you're not simply delivering shoes; you're partnering with churches and ministries and the Buckner Center in the area where you're delivering these shoes to really provide ongoing care well beyond the shoe distribution, right?
Shawn Spurrier: Absolutely. Most of the countries we're working in, we have full-time Family Hope Centers, which are Christ-centered, community-based, family-focused, and child-centered community centers where we are serving families through a variety of programs that are helping them achieve sustainability. But we're also partnering with local churches to resource their ministry and to help further the Kingdom in that way. We work with trusted partners on the ground to ensure that the impact is going to be focused where the need is the greatest, and, you know, just coming alongside other ministries, other partners in these communities is one of the best ways for us to ensure that this work is being done well. But we are full-time on the ground in most of these countries, so it's definitely not just providing a pair of shoes and leaving; it's a lot more than that.
Rob West: Let's talk about some of that deeper impact for ministry, because I know that following these shoe distributions, many of these families are getting connected with local churches because of the shoe distribution, right?
Shawn Spurrier: They are, yeah. We, you know, again, we're plugging families into local churches that we partner with in their communities. And beyond that, you know, every single pair of shoes, even at the very beginning of this relationship, every pair of shoes has an encouraging note to the child written in it that lets them know of the love that God has for them. So, it's kind of a gospel touchpoint there.
We have the opportunity to provide scriptures and the Bible, often for the first time for families who are in our programming and in the communities we work in, and often times that happens right alongside these shoe distributions. The distributions will sometimes happen in a Vacation Bible School setup where we're getting to communicate the message of the gospel to children, and it's a real opportunity for spiritual encouragement.
And what we've seen so many times is how there's kind of a ripple effect. When one child or one family is impacted by the gospel and by the ministry that they have available to them, you kind of see that spread through the communities. So again, it's child-centered, family-focused, but when you focus on the family, when you focus on the child, and they experience that transformation, you see how that can have a ripple effect through their communities.
Rob West: You sure can, and what I love about this is so often we feel disconnected from needs that exist in this way in other parts of the world, and this allows a very practical way for us to meet a real need by partnering with and working through Buckner Shoes for Orphan Souls.
Let's revisit just the mechanics of this for someone listening, Shawn, and saying, "What does it look like for me to put a new pair of shoes on a child's feet?" Give us the details.
Shawn Spurrier: Yeah, it's so simple. Every $15 is going to provide a pair of shoes and socks to a child. That includes us procuring those shoes, providing socks, and then ensuring that they are shipped or that they are procured in a way that they are able to get to the location that these children are in in a very efficient way. And so $15 does a whole lot in this particular scenario, especially in the economy we're in right now where sometimes we are experiencing some price changes. But yeah, $15, you can make an impact on the life of a child. It's such a simple opportunity.
Rob West: It sure is. The website is giveshoestoday.org. We've set a goal between Buckner Shoes for Orphan Souls and Faith & Finance during the month of September to provide shoes for 1,000 children worldwide, and that not only represents education so they can get there—many schools require shoes—but it also represents health, dignity, and hope through the love of Jesus Christ.
Shawn, we're so thankful for our partnership, my friend. Thanks for being here today.
Shawn Spurrier: Likewise, so good to be with you again.
Rob West: Folks, every $15 provides shoes and socks for one child; $150 helps 10 children. You can join us right now. Giveshoestoday.org. That's giveshoestoday.org. Back with your questions after this. Stick around.
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Rob West: Great to have you with us today on Faith & Finance here on American Family Radio. I'm Rob West. We're taking your calls and questions today at 800-525-7000. That's 800-525-7000. We'd love to hear from you. Tackle whatever you're thinking about in your financial life today. Help you put it under the lordship of Christ. Understand biblical wisdom and principles we find in God's word and then make practical decisions with confidence. The goal: faithfulness. What is the next faithful decision you and I can take today regardless of the mistakes we've made in the past? Wherever you're at, with whatever passes through your hands, maybe you're in a season of need and there is just real questions around how do I make all of this work and balance the budget and all of the competing priorities. Maybe you're in a season of plenty. You have more than you need and you're wondering, "Lord, why have you entrusted this to me?" Well, that's the right question. "Lord, what would you have me to do with what you've entrusted to me?" Because we know that it all belongs to him. We're stewards or managers of God's resources. If you have a question today, we know one of the things God's word affirms is wise counsel. And so, we want to be one source of wise counsel helping you move forward as a steward of God's resources. So, if you've got a question today on giving, saving, spending, call right now 800-525-7000. That's 800-525-7000. Let's begin in Ohio today. AJ, thanks for calling. Go ahead.
AJ: Good morning. Hey, really love God's ministry through you and for what you're doing, not just for financial counsel, biblical wisdom, but also with the gospel and keeping Christ centered in our lives. So, good job. Appreciate that.
Rob West: Thank you, AJ. I appreciate that very much.
AJ: Yeah, I mean it. My question is for input regarding life savings, investments today with the situation. I'm north of 65, but I've got a younger family with a younger wife and a couple teens at home. We don't have debt, no mortgage, no cars, but also with paying cash for the last vehicle, we really don't have much savings to speak of. But right now, I'm on the cusp of investing with IRAs that have come due. I've got about $250k that now needs to be invested in the market or someplace, with another $190k in a deferred comp kind of program that's already there. But I'm thinking with the volatility and the heated market right now, midterms, the president's going to be leaving in a couple years, war, everything else, I don't have a lot of years to make up a huge dip if I come in right now and then things go south and then you wait for it to come back up. So, I'm thinking, is it really a good idea to really be all diversified like you would say to a young person because they've got the time? So, I've got expenses, I've got some funds, but by the same token, those can just be wiped out. And again, if I don't have a lot of years to make up for that, what would your counsel be as far as going forward? I know we had a Christian financial counselor number of years ago that said, "Oh, well, put it in some kind of foreign currency," or something like that. Boy, we took a hit of like $30,000. After $40,000 down, I said, "You're not going to make this back. We've got to go away from you." So, I'm very cautious. But I want to, you know, I want to go forward, but by the same token, at my age, I'm thinking maybe this is not the time to be investing. So, I'm kind of on the horns of a dilemma here, wanting to get in and do well with this new cash, basically, $250k. But, you know, should I be cautious and say, "Yeah, I'm not going to do the stocks. I'm not going to do that," just be creeping along with very low-yield kind of investments? What's your thoughts?
Rob West: Yeah. Boy, it's a great question, AJ, and I appreciate you asking it. You know, the challenge here is, as soon as we try to time the market, it's just a losing proposition. So, what the better approach is, is to say: what is the right mix of investments for me based on my age, my risk tolerance, my goals and objectives? And then once I determine that, I can then stay fully invested according to that allocation. And that's irrespective of what's going on around me. And you might say, "Well, why would I do that?" I mean, I can see—I know that the midterms are coming. I know that, you know, the president's policies, which are good for business—I mean, we could go through each one of them and vote up or down, but generally speaking, his low tax policy, his deregulation, you know, the oil production despite what's going on, you know, hopefully short lived in the Middle East, is all good for business. Could that change? Absolutely, it could. And it could change in a big way. I know the demographic cliff is coming. You know, all of these things. The problem is as soon as I try to start timing that, I'm really putting myself at a disadvantage, at least historically. Because when we look at the average annualized returns of the market, you can go back 20, you could go back 50, go back 100 years, and you see it's probably something including dividends north of 9%. You know, that includes some pretty scary periods. And, you know, what we have to recognize is, you know, that the upsides in the market, some of the market's strongest days occur during highly volatile periods. I mean, a great example of that would be the pandemic. You know, we saw the quickest drop to a bear market in history, followed by, very quickly, the quickest rise to a new bull market in history. And nobody saw either of them coming. And so, the moment we try to anticipate where the market is going, we're—yes, potentially going to miss some downside—the problem is you don't know when to get back in, and I don't either, and neither do really professional traders, because nobody can pick the bottom. And, you know, so therefore, what we do is we build a portfolio that makes sense based on where we're at, our goals and objectives, and your values and priorities and the story that God's writing in your life. So, how would we begin analyzing that? Well, a starting point might just be a rule of thumb, and that's all it is. You take 110 minus your age. We used to use 100. It was called the Rule of 100, but people are living longer, and so we take a little bit more, you know, risk, a little bit more allocation to stocks, just to avoid the longevity risk about living your money. So, 110 minus, you know, 65, the resulting answer is what you would typically start with in equities and then the balance in fixed income. So, for you, that'd be 45% to equities, 55% bonds at age 65. Why that much even in stocks? Well, the idea is, even though you're closer and closer to retirement, you have a young family, and if the Lord tarries and you're in good health, you need this money to last three decades, given your, you know, wife's age, probably four decades plus. So, I think that's the fundamental idea, but let cut—let's talk about how to apply that after the break. Stay with us.
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Rob West: Great to have you with us today on Faith & Finance here on American Family Radio. I'm Rob West. We're taking your calls and questions today at 800-525-7000. That's 800-525-7000. We do have some lines open today, and we would love to hear from you.
Before the break, we were talking to AJ in Ohio. AJ is 66, working full-time, has a young family, his wife is a few years younger than he is. He's got 300,000 that is coming available to invest. He's had some advice in the past that resulted in some foreign currency investments that didn't do well. He's, you know, appropriately looking out and saying, "Here's what I see coming on the horizon with the midterms and, you know, perhaps a more favorable business environment with President Trump coming to an end at the end of his term, the uncertainties around that, and just, you know, the state of the world today and geopolitical issues." And he's saying, "You know, do I need to be thinking about not being in the market?"
And I was just giving a bit of an overview to AJ around this idea that, you know, any time we try to pick the bottom or pick the entry points or try to pick our entry and exit points, it's just a losing proposition historically and through all the research that has been done on this topic, because, you know, some of the most scary and volatile periods are really where we get the market upswings, the most dramatic upswings. And if you look at what has given us these average annual returns in the market of 9-plus percent, even though you take with it the crash of '87 and 1929 and, you know, the dot-com bubble burst and the Great Recession of '07-'08 and the pandemic, 100-year pandemic, you put all those in and the downside, and the reason you still get those great average annual returns, is because of those dramatic upswings, which is one of the reasons I don't love annuities, because, you know, at least with those variable indexed annuities where you're getting the floor on the downside, you only get a certain amount of the upside, so the insurance company keeps the dramatic up years, which we've experienced the last few years.
And despite all of those challenges, there's still a real case for a bull, you know, a bull case if you will, for the U.S. economy being the biggest and the largest and the leader in AI and productivity and just all the reasons that make the U.S. the strongest economic nation on earth despite our challenges. So, you know, I think, AJ, the better approach is to say, "What is the right mix of investments for me?" And then I'm just going to be fully invested in that, regardless of oil, regardless of the Strait of Hormuz, regardless of the, you know, Republican convention last night, and I just know that I've got time on my side. And even though you see your runway shortening in terms of your work career, remember, you know, you still have a decades-long need for this money.
And the key would be, at any point with whatever is in stocks, can you weather a 20 to 30% downturn? That's probably what you need to be ready to experience at any moment with that portion. And the reason you should be able to say yes is because the portion that's in stocks is that portion that you shouldn't have to touch for a minimum of 10 years. And in every case, the market always recovers, and you would generate income and take withdrawals and distributions when that time comes from the rest of your portfolio, which is in fixed income. And by the way, that percentage is growing as you age. But that's just my take on it. Give me your thoughts.
AJ: So, even if even if I'm passing on to see Jesus in 10 years, and I'm not going to be able to last that 10 years, hypothetically, who knows? He may give me 20, 30 years, I have no idea. But with my younger wife and family, you're saying that they'll be able to pick up the 10-year upswing and recovery of whatever funds that are left, especially if I'm able to weather the 20 to 30%? Is that what you're saying?
Rob West: That's what I'm saying, because here's the reality, is neither of us know whether we're going to have another breath, right? So we may see Jesus tomorrow or today. Terms of the average is, once you reach age 65, the likelihood that you're going to reach age 83 is pretty good. And so, you know, it's more likely that you're going to live into your 80s than it is in, you know, pass away in your 70s, just on the average once you reach age 65.
And again, you're not managing this money just for you. This money is the portfolio that has to generate income for all the years that your wife—and you've said my younger wife—who means, you know, again on the average, is probably going to need it much longer than you. Yeah, she needs to be able to offset inflation. She needs to be able to grow this portfolio so that she can pull an income that allows her to maintain the lifestyle that, you know, she and you believe God has called you to. And then even beyond that, you know, we're managing it for the kids to the extent some of this is going to be inherited.
AJ: Okay. So as kind of an adjunct, would you say, "Well, geez, my life insurance is running out in three years, four years, should I be looking to spend another 6,000 a year at this age?" It'll be very expensive, but another 6,000 a year to have another 10, 15 years of life insurance for the wife and younger and the kids, kind of thing, or young wife?
Rob West: I don't think so, unless you're going to continue to work and they're going to be relying on your income, and if your income goes away, they're going to create hardship, or that's going to create hardship. Because it sounds like to me you've got the ideal scenario, which is the one we try to, you know, put in place, and that is we have insurance during our working years. But if your insurance, your life insurance is set to run out at—you're 66, three, you said three years, that's 69—you know, the ideal would be you no longer have a need for life insurance at that point, because all the assets you've accumulated through your work through your income are there.
Your family's no longer relying on your income because you've transitioned into what God has for you next. Now, maybe you're still working full-time or part-time at 69, and that may be a possibility, and if that's the case, maybe you get a smaller 10-year policy. But if you can answer the question, "What risk exists if my income goes away at age 70?" and say there is no added risk because everything we've accumulated is enough, you know, my survivor benefits on Social Security, my retirement accounts, you know, whatever other income sources, that's what my wife is going to live on, then there's no reason to spend six grand a year on a 10-year policy, because that risk has gone away.
AJ: Okay. Okay. And as far as the the rule of 100 or 110, you know, 45% in equities, 55 in bonds, kind of stuff, would you be thinking that gold or other more solid—again, I'm leaning toward the conservative, and this is really a faith-filled encouragement you're giving me, so I appreciate this very much. But still, this idea of should I be looking more for some of it, land or gold or something like that, at least at this age for the investments with the for security, or is that still speculative and I shouldn't be, you know, bouncing into that stuff?
Rob West: No, there's nothing wrong with real estate. I love real estate. There's nothing wrong with gold. I think the key is just understand what you're getting. So with gold, I wouldn't have more than 5, at the most 10% of your investable assets. I like gold. It's a hedge, it's a store of value, it's uncorrelated, it, you know, with high inflation, you know, it or a dollar that's weakening, it's really helpful. But it doesn't have the long-term performance that stocks and bonds do, and it doesn't generate any income, which stocks and bonds do.
So, you know, I think, and for that reason, I would limit your exposure to gold. What about real estate? I love real estate. It's just now all of a sudden you're becoming a landlord, you need to be, you know, ready to take that on, you know, you need to make sure that, you know, this is what you want. But alongside a properly diversified stock and bond portfolio, real estate can be fabulous, but it's not a passive investment, so you just need to understand that.
Now, 45 might be the equity position based on the rule of 110 as a starting point. You may say, "I want to dial that down." You know, maybe for you, it's at age 66, it's a 60/40 portfolio or a 70/30. Fine. You know, you're the steward, and I think you and your wife before the Lord need to pray through this and talk it through and then build your plan. But, you know, I think there's something to be said about having that equity position well into the future given your age. Thanks for your call. We'll be right back.
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Rob West: Great to have you with us today on Faith and Finance here on American Family Radio. I had a visit—I had a chance to visit with A.J. during the break, and the last thing I shared with him is, you know, the other piece of this is the role of an advisor in this equation, the role of an investment advisor. Because if you've got an advisor that understands his or her role, and we recommend a Certified Kingdom Advisor who's met the experience and the character and the faith requirements that we have here, you're going to have somebody who's very curious about you, and you're going to have somebody who does a lot of discovery about what is God's story that He's writing in your life, and what are your values, and where are you going, and how can your investments support that, and what are your giving desires, and what is your lifestyle, what are your income needs and your risk tolerance. And then the advisor builds a portfolio that reflects that, and then now you're in a really good spot because the advisor, once that's built—and the advisor's bringing investments to the table perhaps that you don't even aren't even aware of—now the advisor's taking a rules-based approach to this investment strategy. So when the Strait of Hormuz closes, or oil's above $100 a barrel, or the midterms don't go the way you want, you're no longer saying, "Uh-oh, maybe I ought to go to cash." No, you've got an advisor who says, "No, we're going to stay the course." Now, ultimately, you're in control. If you want to do something, they'll do it, but, you know, they should be pushing back in a thoughtful way to say, "No, remember, let me remind you why we have the investment mix we do, and why we have the allocation we have, and we stay invested because over time, you know, we do well and we offset inflation, and we grow this wealth that God has entrusted to us." So, I think an advisor is really a key piece of this equation. By the way, if you want to find a CKA in your area, just go to findacka.com. Let's go to Ohio. Andrew, go ahead.
Andrew: Hey, the root question is: Should I change my future contributions to my employer-sponsored plan to a Roth versus the traditional? It's in a 403(b). Reason being, my wife and I—I'm the sole bread income there—we've got 700,000 in that traditional in there. We've got a nice HSA. And we've really moved into the accumulation and the generous giving, which has been a blessing. Even just to hear about shoes and how humbling it is to just be able to call in. And so, I wanted to get your thoughts on moving maybe more into the Roth phase of it now instead of away from the traditional. What are your what's your thoughts with that?
Rob West: Yeah, love this question. And, you know, having the option to contribute to both traditional 403(b) contributions and Roth can be really valuable. I wouldn't automatically switch everything to Roth, but adding Roth contributions can make a lot of sense, particularly, you know, since you have currently all of your retirement savings on the traditional, pre-tax side. The basic tradeoff is taxes now versus taxes later. The traditional, you know, reduces your taxable income today, which if you're at the peak of your earning or close to it, you know, that's really valuable. And then you'd pay the tax later. The benefit of the Roth is, you don't get that deduction, you pay the tax first, but you get all that tax-free growth and no required minimums down the road. And given the uncertainties about where tax rates will be 25, 30 years from now when you're drawing this money out, it will give you the flexibility at that point, given the unknowns today, to say, "All right, which bucket do I want to pull from given the realities of what I now know today when you're, you know, 30 years older?" And so, you know, I think that's a good idea to kind of have both. There was a study done not too long ago—well, actually, it's been a while now—but the researchers, I think it was University of Arizona, they looked at hundreds and hundreds of actual retirement scenarios, real people, and they were trying to determine what is the optimal mix between pre-tax and after-tax retirement contributions. And their rule of thumb, and that's all it is, was you add the number 20 to your age, and that's what you put in the pre-tax, and you put the balance in Roth. So, you're 42. In their scenario, you'd put 62—let's call it, round it down to 60. You'd do 60 in the pre-tax, and you'd do 40 in the Roth. And then as you age, you know, that number obviously grows toward the pre-tax because, you know, for the reasons I mentioned.
Andrew: Okay. Yeah, and my income, I don't foresee it really going up. I think it's plateaued. Even over the next 15 years, it'll move with inflation. And so, I'm really thinking my income during retirement may be about the same as it is now. So, based on what we would accumulate.
Rob West: Yeah, that's the goal. So, that'd be great. And if you had more of that in Roth, you know, that would just give you more flexibility and less tax burden, and you wouldn't have to worry about the impact on Medicare, you know, by being forced to pull out taxable income through the required minimums. When you take it out of the Roth, it doesn't add anything to your taxable income, which means, you know, the Medicare and the amount of your Social Security that's taxable isn't affected by your retirement withdrawals.
Andrew: Okay. And as I understand it, I can use our HSA, which is already about 50, we can use that for those future healthcare expenses, which they've just been it's just been growing tax-free.
Rob West: Oh, yeah. I mean, the HSA is probably the secret weapon of retirement because you get this triple tax advantage: You get the deduction when it goes in, you get the tax-free growth, and then you get the tax-free withdrawals as long as you're using the money for qualified medical expenses. And, you know, that's just a huge win, especially if you can max it out, you're relatively healthy, you're not needing it, and you invest it, which is what you've done. It becomes really a phenomenal additional bucket to pull from in that season.
Andrew: Okay. Well, thank you so much. I'm going to look at my employer-sponsored plan to see how I can start moving over future contributions to some in the Roth.
Rob West: Very good. I love the plan, Andrew. Thanks for your call. Lord bless you, and call anytime. Let's go to Texas and welcome Karen. You'll be our final caller. Go ahead.
Karen: Oh, thank you. Thank you so much. I appreciate it. And I called you a few weeks ago, and I know we're running out of time. Thank you for the book you sent me. I'm currently I'm currently 68, and we've been married I've known my husband 49 years, and we've been married 43, and we're going through a divorce. And I try to listen to you every morning, and sometimes I only just catch parts of it. You were talking—I never even thought about it—but getting credit on my own because for 43 years, we've had a joint account, and I don't know what that means for me as far as trying to get my own credit. We're in the process of divorce. The papers haven't been signed yet, so...
Rob West: Oh, so sorry. Yeah. Wow, I'm so sorry, Karen. You said joint account, so are you talking about a credit card or something else?
Karen: We don't—well, both. We don't have any debt. The house is paid off. We do have a credit card, but mostly I use a debit card. He likes to use a credit card for perks and stuff like that, so...
Rob West: I see. Yeah, I mean, if you were an authorized user, you know, you're probably getting the benefit of the history, but, you know, you do need to establish credit in your own name, especially—it's particularly important during a divorce because, you know, the divorce decree doesn't automatically remove someone's liability to a creditor, but you are going to need to establish independent credit. And I'd build it slowly, you know, rather than taking on any debt just to create a score. I mean, the next step for you would be either a secured or an unsecured credit card, not because you want to, you know, carry debt and pay interest, but just, you know, moving some of those budgeted monthly expenses to a credit card that's going to be reported to your credit file with you being an on-time payer with a very low credit utilization that's going to just begin to establish credit for you. You probably aren't going to need much credit. I mean, I don't see you, you know, unless you're going to go out and take on a mortgage or buy a car and get a loan, your credit really doesn't matter very much. But, you know, if you could have a credit card in your name and you put an automatic recurring charge or just something, you know, going to the grocery store every month and then you pay it off in full and that gets reported to your credit file, that's not a bad thing. That would just help get that score up so if you ever did need, you know, to take advantage of something that required a credit check, you'd have some credit, you know, to justify it.
Karen: Yeah, and that's what we did with our children. You know, we gave them credit cards in high school just to buy their gas, and, you know, then we, you know, they or we paid it off, just but they were only allowed to use it for gas for their car. So, but how do I go about that? I mean, is a bank if I walk in and say I have no credit, I mean, I just want to establish a new credit card, or how do I go about that? I thought that might be a dumb question.
Rob West: No, no, no, not at all. Absolutely not. So, you've got a couple of options. Yeah, you would just want to pick a credit card that, you know, doesn't have an annual fee, you know, and you could either go a secured card, which you could go to your local bank and you'd put a certain amount on deposit, and that's what they would give you as far as your credit goes, which doesn't require you really to have any credit because they have no risk, because there's an amount on deposit, and then you're just charging against it and paying it back. Or you could get an unsecured card where they just extend a certain amount to you, maybe $500 or $1,000, and you charge against it. Either case could be, you know, something that that could be really helpful to you. Let's do this: I'm going to connect you with a Certified Christian Financial Counselor just to help you walk through what you need to know to get that set up. And that'll give you a sounding board of somebody who is trained to help people with budgets and spending plans and the like. So, stay on the line. My team will get your information, Karen. We'll get a Certified Christian Financial Counselor in touch with you, and they will help walk you through all of this, and it's our gift to you, okay? Lord bless you. Thanks for calling today. Well, let me say a big thanks to my team today. I certainly couldn't do this without them: Adam Suddeth, so thankful for Patty Pumphrey, grateful for Taylor Standrich, Afton Phillips, everybody here at FaithFi that makes this possible on a daily basis, Kevin Light, Ashley Sugar, the entire team. Hey, if you want to give to help put shoes on a child in some part of the world who doesn't have them, just go to giveshoestoday.org. Every $15 will cover a new pair of shoes, socks, and the cost of the transportation. We'll see you tomorrow.
Rob West: For millions of vulnerable children around the world, shoes can mean the difference between going to school and staying home. Hi, I'm Rob West. For most families, a new pair of shoes is simply part of getting ready for another school year, but not everywhere. Today, Shawn Spurrier joins us to share how Buckner Shoes for Orphan Souls is helping children step into the classroom with health, dignity, and hope. And then it's on to your calls at 800-525-7000. That's 800-525-7000. This is Faith & Finance on American Family Radio, biblical wisdom for your financial decisions.
Rob West: Well, as you know, throughout the year, we have the privilege of partnering with several organizations doing incredible Kingdom work on the ground. And for the entire month of September, we're partnering with our friends at Buckner Shoes for Orphan Souls. Shawn Spurrier is the director of the program, and it is always great to have him with us. Shawn, welcome back.
Shawn Spurrier: Rob, so great to be back with you today.
Rob West: Shawn, for many families here in the US, a new pair of shoes is simply a part of getting ready for school. I know it was in our household. But for many children around the world and those that Buckner serves, having shoes can actually determine whether they're able to attend school at all. Help us understand why that is.
Shawn Spurrier: Yeah, Rob. You know, the most recent estimates show that there are about 300 million children throughout the world who lack access to adequate footwear. Tens of millions of those children today will not be in school because of that. In many countries throughout the world, shoes are mandatory for attending school, and that school is vital to their rising above poverty. And so, we have an opportunity to lower barriers to education by providing this simple gift. Additionally, shoes are also preventing injury and disease. You know, it's a pretty profound need where it's something that we just don't often think of on our own here in the States.
Rob West: That is so true, and that is significant—the idea that they can get an education and be protected from disease. But it actually goes beyond that. The impact goes well beyond the school, doesn't it?
Shawn Spurrier: It certainly does. You know, every pair of shoes that we provide, we have an opportunity to promote health. Like I said, we're preventing disease, we're lowering barriers to education, but we're also trying to plug children and families into opportunity and long-term programming. We're trying to give them a sense of dignity and confidence when they attend school, and kind of maybe even alleviate some of the social stigmas that children often experience in some of the countries we work in when they have some of these tropical or footborne illnesses. And then most importantly, providing shoes gives us an opportunity to affirm and communicate the love of Christ to that child.
Rob West: I know it's incredible. Shawn, I know you've been on many of these shoe distributions, and we'll talk about what that experience is like. I can only imagine. But I want to back up for a second because for someone hearing about Buckner Shoes for Orphan Souls for the first time, I'd love for you to give them a sense of how far this ministry reaches, and really the difference it's making in children's lives.
Shawn Spurrier: Absolutely. You know, Buckner Shoes for Orphan Souls is the largest humanitarian aid project of Buckner International. And since 1999, we've had the opportunity to collect around five and a quarter million pairs of shoes and distribute those in 86 countries throughout the world. And again, this is kind of a part of just Buckner International's larger mission of serving vulnerable children and families through a variety of programs. But man, when you consider that every pair of shoes is an opportunity to express the love of Christ, that's five and a quarter million opportunities we've had to do that. And again, promote health, education, opportunity. Make sure that children are in schools and that families are achieving sustainability through these programs. And so, yeah, it's a small piece of a big puzzle, but it's a really important one.
Rob West: It really is, and that's why we're so honored to have this partnership all month long throughout the month of September. Now, tell us where Buckner is serving today and just give us a sense of some of the places around the world where these shoes are making their way to children.
Shawn Spurrier: Absolutely. So, we have programming in the United States and then in seven countries full-time outside of the United States throughout Latin America and Africa. So, places like Mexico, Guatemala, Honduras, Dominican Republic, Peru, Kenya, and Ethiopia. And some of these places are extremely vulnerable and really difficult places, and often difficult for families to access some of these very basic needs, such as shoes.
Rob West: Well, folks, this is your opportunity today. Every $15 provides a pair of shoes that includes socks and the cost of getting the shoes to the child. Of course, $150 provides shoes for 10 children. Our goal during the month of September between Faith & Finance and Buckner Shoes for Orphan Souls: 1,000 pairs of shoes distributed to children worldwide. You can jump on board at giveshoestoday.org. That's giveshoestoday.org. Back with Shawn Spurrier after this. Stick around.
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Rob West: Thanks for joining us today on Faith & Finance on American Family Radio. For many children around the world, a pair of shoes is more than a back-to-school purchase. It can be the key to opening the classroom door, to protecting them from footborne illness, and to sharing the gospel of Jesus Christ. And that's why we've partnered with Buckner Shoes for Orphan Souls throughout the month of September to provide—are you ready for this?—1,000 pairs of shoes to children worldwide. That includes the pair of socks; it also includes the cost of shipping to get the shoes to the child.
If you'd like to be a part of it, every $15 given provides a pair of shoes and socks and the cost of transportation. Just go to giveshoestoday.org. That's giveshoestoday.org. And help us reach, or perhaps exceed, this goal of providing 1,000 pairs of shoes to vulnerable children around the world.
Joining me today is my friend Shawn Spurrier. Shawn is the director of this program, Buckner Shoes for Orphan Souls. And Shawn, we were talking about where this is happening around the world and some of the mechanics of it, but I'd love for you to share a story, perhaps a story that could help us appreciate the impact this program is having.
Shawn Spurrier: Yeah, absolutely. You know, Rob, just a couple years ago, we were distributing shoes outside of Oaxaca, Mexico, at one of our Family Hope Centers. And a colleague of mine, a friend, was distributing a pair of shoes, giving them to this little girl named Romina. She was about six years old.
And one of the things we do when we're distributing shoes is we'll get in front of the child, we'll wash their feet, and we'll talk to them and let them know that the Lord loves them, they're cared for, while we're while we're doing this process. And while my friend was was providing shoes for her, you know, about halfway through the process, you could tell she was getting a little emotional, and her little lip started quivering, and then by the time he had her shoes on, she was just in full-blown tears.
I'm a dad, I have an 11-year-old daughter; I kind of went into fix-it mode. I thought something was wrong. And I leaned over to our family coach, who was embracing Romina by this point, and just said, "Hey, is everything okay? Is there anything we can help with?" And she looked at me and she said, "No, Romina is overwhelmed with emotion that someone would think of her to provide her these new shoes."
And man, I can't think of the last time I've cried when I received a simple gift, or how many of us can? But that moment really kind of pulled me back toward what we do and why we do it.
One of the best parts of the story, though, is that over time, that engagement through those shoes gave her family the opportunity to plug in with our Buckner Family Hope Center. And they embraced that support, and they've experienced some real transformation. And I recently got to chat with our team on the ground there, and they said that Romina, who's now eight, is no longer this shy, anxious little girl, but she's a leader in her after-school programs, and that she's a girl who moves toward other children who are feeling left out or feeling like they're on the fringes, and ensuring that they feel included. She's praying with them at lunch and getting to lead out in those ways.
And even more than that, her family has now achieved sustainability economically, and in their spiritual life, and in their family, and they're going out and volunteering for local Buckner programs and encouraging other families to take part in the ministry.
And so, it's just one of those things where, you know, you never know what story a pair of shoes is going to enter into, and you don't know really the impact that it'll have until it gets there. But at minimum, we saw that Romina knew that she was loved and cared for and not forgotten, that somebody was thinking about her. But it also led to all this other fantastic transformation in their lives, and that's what we get to participate in when we're when we're providing this very simple, tangible gift.
Rob West: Wow! Folks, that's exactly why we're partnering with Buckner Shoes for Orphan Souls throughout this month of September and inviting you into this partnership so we can give, Lord willing, 1,000 pairs of shoes to vulnerable children in some part of the world so we can not only protect them from footborne illness and get them into school, but also introduce them to Jesus. Every $15 is going to help us deliver one pair of shoes, socks, and the cost to transport them. Giveshoestoday.org is the place to go to jump on board.
You mentioned something that I think is so key about this program, Shawn, and that is that you're not simply delivering shoes; you're partnering with churches and ministries and the Buckner Center in the area where you're delivering these shoes to really provide ongoing care well beyond the shoe distribution, right?
Shawn Spurrier: Absolutely. Most of the countries we're working in, we have full-time Family Hope Centers, which are Christ-centered, community-based, family-focused, and child-centered community centers where we are serving families through a variety of programs that are helping them achieve sustainability. But we're also partnering with local churches to resource their ministry and to help further the Kingdom in that way. We work with trusted partners on the ground to ensure that the impact is going to be focused where the need is the greatest, and, you know, just coming alongside other ministries, other partners in these communities is one of the best ways for us to ensure that this work is being done well. But we are full-time on the ground in most of these countries, so it's definitely not just providing a pair of shoes and leaving; it's a lot more than that.
Rob West: Let's talk about some of that deeper impact for ministry, because I know that following these shoe distributions, many of these families are getting connected with local churches because of the shoe distribution, right?
Shawn Spurrier: They are, yeah. We, you know, again, we're plugging families into local churches that we partner with in their communities. And beyond that, you know, every single pair of shoes, even at the very beginning of this relationship, every pair of shoes has an encouraging note to the child written in it that lets them know of the love that God has for them. So, it's kind of a gospel touchpoint there.
We have the opportunity to provide scriptures and the Bible, often for the first time for families who are in our programming and in the communities we work in, and often times that happens right alongside these shoe distributions. The distributions will sometimes happen in a Vacation Bible School setup where we're getting to communicate the message of the gospel to children, and it's a real opportunity for spiritual encouragement.
And what we've seen so many times is how there's kind of a ripple effect. When one child or one family is impacted by the gospel and by the ministry that they have available to them, you kind of see that spread through the communities. So again, it's child-centered, family-focused, but when you focus on the family, when you focus on the child, and they experience that transformation, you see how that can have a ripple effect through their communities.
Rob West: You sure can, and what I love about this is so often we feel disconnected from needs that exist in this way in other parts of the world, and this allows a very practical way for us to meet a real need by partnering with and working through Buckner Shoes for Orphan Souls.
Let's revisit just the mechanics of this for someone listening, Shawn, and saying, "What does it look like for me to put a new pair of shoes on a child's feet?" Give us the details.
Shawn Spurrier: Yeah, it's so simple. Every $15 is going to provide a pair of shoes and socks to a child. That includes us procuring those shoes, providing socks, and then ensuring that they are shipped or that they are procured in a way that they are able to get to the location that these children are in in a very efficient way. And so $15 does a whole lot in this particular scenario, especially in the economy we're in right now where sometimes we are experiencing some price changes. But yeah, $15, you can make an impact on the life of a child. It's such a simple opportunity.
Rob West: It sure is. The website is giveshoestoday.org. We've set a goal between Buckner Shoes for Orphan Souls and Faith & Finance during the month of September to provide shoes for 1,000 children worldwide, and that not only represents education so they can get there—many schools require shoes—but it also represents health, dignity, and hope through the love of Jesus Christ.
Shawn, we're so thankful for our partnership, my friend. Thanks for being here today.
Shawn Spurrier: Likewise, so good to be with you again.
Rob West: Folks, every $15 provides shoes and socks for one child; $150 helps 10 children. You can join us right now. Giveshoestoday.org. That's giveshoestoday.org. Back with your questions after this. Stick around.
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Rob West: Great to have you with us today on Faith & Finance here on American Family Radio. I'm Rob West. We're taking your calls and questions today at 800-525-7000. That's 800-525-7000. We'd love to hear from you. Tackle whatever you're thinking about in your financial life today. Help you put it under the lordship of Christ. Understand biblical wisdom and principles we find in God's word and then make practical decisions with confidence. The goal: faithfulness. What is the next faithful decision you and I can take today regardless of the mistakes we've made in the past? Wherever you're at, with whatever passes through your hands, maybe you're in a season of need and there is just real questions around how do I make all of this work and balance the budget and all of the competing priorities. Maybe you're in a season of plenty. You have more than you need and you're wondering, "Lord, why have you entrusted this to me?" Well, that's the right question. "Lord, what would you have me to do with what you've entrusted to me?" Because we know that it all belongs to him. We're stewards or managers of God's resources. If you have a question today, we know one of the things God's word affirms is wise counsel. And so, we want to be one source of wise counsel helping you move forward as a steward of God's resources. So, if you've got a question today on giving, saving, spending, call right now 800-525-7000. That's 800-525-7000. Let's begin in Ohio today. AJ, thanks for calling. Go ahead.
AJ: Good morning. Hey, really love God's ministry through you and for what you're doing, not just for financial counsel, biblical wisdom, but also with the gospel and keeping Christ centered in our lives. So, good job. Appreciate that.
Rob West: Thank you, AJ. I appreciate that very much.
AJ: Yeah, I mean it. My question is for input regarding life savings, investments today with the situation. I'm north of 65, but I've got a younger family with a younger wife and a couple teens at home. We don't have debt, no mortgage, no cars, but also with paying cash for the last vehicle, we really don't have much savings to speak of. But right now, I'm on the cusp of investing with IRAs that have come due. I've got about $250k that now needs to be invested in the market or someplace, with another $190k in a deferred comp kind of program that's already there. But I'm thinking with the volatility and the heated market right now, midterms, the president's going to be leaving in a couple years, war, everything else, I don't have a lot of years to make up a huge dip if I come in right now and then things go south and then you wait for it to come back up. So, I'm thinking, is it really a good idea to really be all diversified like you would say to a young person because they've got the time? So, I've got expenses, I've got some funds, but by the same token, those can just be wiped out. And again, if I don't have a lot of years to make up for that, what would your counsel be as far as going forward? I know we had a Christian financial counselor number of years ago that said, "Oh, well, put it in some kind of foreign currency," or something like that. Boy, we took a hit of like $30,000. After $40,000 down, I said, "You're not going to make this back. We've got to go away from you." So, I'm very cautious. But I want to, you know, I want to go forward, but by the same token, at my age, I'm thinking maybe this is not the time to be investing. So, I'm kind of on the horns of a dilemma here, wanting to get in and do well with this new cash, basically, $250k. But, you know, should I be cautious and say, "Yeah, I'm not going to do the stocks. I'm not going to do that," just be creeping along with very low-yield kind of investments? What's your thoughts?
Rob West: Yeah. Boy, it's a great question, AJ, and I appreciate you asking it. You know, the challenge here is, as soon as we try to time the market, it's just a losing proposition. So, what the better approach is, is to say: what is the right mix of investments for me based on my age, my risk tolerance, my goals and objectives? And then once I determine that, I can then stay fully invested according to that allocation. And that's irrespective of what's going on around me. And you might say, "Well, why would I do that?" I mean, I can see—I know that the midterms are coming. I know that, you know, the president's policies, which are good for business—I mean, we could go through each one of them and vote up or down, but generally speaking, his low tax policy, his deregulation, you know, the oil production despite what's going on, you know, hopefully short lived in the Middle East, is all good for business. Could that change? Absolutely, it could. And it could change in a big way. I know the demographic cliff is coming. You know, all of these things. The problem is as soon as I try to start timing that, I'm really putting myself at a disadvantage, at least historically. Because when we look at the average annualized returns of the market, you can go back 20, you could go back 50, go back 100 years, and you see it's probably something including dividends north of 9%. You know, that includes some pretty scary periods. And, you know, what we have to recognize is, you know, that the upsides in the market, some of the market's strongest days occur during highly volatile periods. I mean, a great example of that would be the pandemic. You know, we saw the quickest drop to a bear market in history, followed by, very quickly, the quickest rise to a new bull market in history. And nobody saw either of them coming. And so, the moment we try to anticipate where the market is going, we're—yes, potentially going to miss some downside—the problem is you don't know when to get back in, and I don't either, and neither do really professional traders, because nobody can pick the bottom. And, you know, so therefore, what we do is we build a portfolio that makes sense based on where we're at, our goals and objectives, and your values and priorities and the story that God's writing in your life. So, how would we begin analyzing that? Well, a starting point might just be a rule of thumb, and that's all it is. You take 110 minus your age. We used to use 100. It was called the Rule of 100, but people are living longer, and so we take a little bit more, you know, risk, a little bit more allocation to stocks, just to avoid the longevity risk about living your money. So, 110 minus, you know, 65, the resulting answer is what you would typically start with in equities and then the balance in fixed income. So, for you, that'd be 45% to equities, 55% bonds at age 65. Why that much even in stocks? Well, the idea is, even though you're closer and closer to retirement, you have a young family, and if the Lord tarries and you're in good health, you need this money to last three decades, given your, you know, wife's age, probably four decades plus. So, I think that's the fundamental idea, but let cut—let's talk about how to apply that after the break. Stay with us.
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Rob West: Great to have you with us today on Faith & Finance here on American Family Radio. I'm Rob West. We're taking your calls and questions today at 800-525-7000. That's 800-525-7000. We do have some lines open today, and we would love to hear from you.
Before the break, we were talking to AJ in Ohio. AJ is 66, working full-time, has a young family, his wife is a few years younger than he is. He's got 300,000 that is coming available to invest. He's had some advice in the past that resulted in some foreign currency investments that didn't do well. He's, you know, appropriately looking out and saying, "Here's what I see coming on the horizon with the midterms and, you know, perhaps a more favorable business environment with President Trump coming to an end at the end of his term, the uncertainties around that, and just, you know, the state of the world today and geopolitical issues." And he's saying, "You know, do I need to be thinking about not being in the market?"
And I was just giving a bit of an overview to AJ around this idea that, you know, any time we try to pick the bottom or pick the entry points or try to pick our entry and exit points, it's just a losing proposition historically and through all the research that has been done on this topic, because, you know, some of the most scary and volatile periods are really where we get the market upswings, the most dramatic upswings. And if you look at what has given us these average annual returns in the market of 9-plus percent, even though you take with it the crash of '87 and 1929 and, you know, the dot-com bubble burst and the Great Recession of '07-'08 and the pandemic, 100-year pandemic, you put all those in and the downside, and the reason you still get those great average annual returns, is because of those dramatic upswings, which is one of the reasons I don't love annuities, because, you know, at least with those variable indexed annuities where you're getting the floor on the downside, you only get a certain amount of the upside, so the insurance company keeps the dramatic up years, which we've experienced the last few years.
And despite all of those challenges, there's still a real case for a bull, you know, a bull case if you will, for the U.S. economy being the biggest and the largest and the leader in AI and productivity and just all the reasons that make the U.S. the strongest economic nation on earth despite our challenges. So, you know, I think, AJ, the better approach is to say, "What is the right mix of investments for me?" And then I'm just going to be fully invested in that, regardless of oil, regardless of the Strait of Hormuz, regardless of the, you know, Republican convention last night, and I just know that I've got time on my side. And even though you see your runway shortening in terms of your work career, remember, you know, you still have a decades-long need for this money.
And the key would be, at any point with whatever is in stocks, can you weather a 20 to 30% downturn? That's probably what you need to be ready to experience at any moment with that portion. And the reason you should be able to say yes is because the portion that's in stocks is that portion that you shouldn't have to touch for a minimum of 10 years. And in every case, the market always recovers, and you would generate income and take withdrawals and distributions when that time comes from the rest of your portfolio, which is in fixed income. And by the way, that percentage is growing as you age. But that's just my take on it. Give me your thoughts.
AJ: So, even if even if I'm passing on to see Jesus in 10 years, and I'm not going to be able to last that 10 years, hypothetically, who knows? He may give me 20, 30 years, I have no idea. But with my younger wife and family, you're saying that they'll be able to pick up the 10-year upswing and recovery of whatever funds that are left, especially if I'm able to weather the 20 to 30%? Is that what you're saying?
Rob West: That's what I'm saying, because here's the reality, is neither of us know whether we're going to have another breath, right? So we may see Jesus tomorrow or today. Terms of the average is, once you reach age 65, the likelihood that you're going to reach age 83 is pretty good. And so, you know, it's more likely that you're going to live into your 80s than it is in, you know, pass away in your 70s, just on the average once you reach age 65.
And again, you're not managing this money just for you. This money is the portfolio that has to generate income for all the years that your wife—and you've said my younger wife—who means, you know, again on the average, is probably going to need it much longer than you. Yeah, she needs to be able to offset inflation. She needs to be able to grow this portfolio so that she can pull an income that allows her to maintain the lifestyle that, you know, she and you believe God has called you to. And then even beyond that, you know, we're managing it for the kids to the extent some of this is going to be inherited.
AJ: Okay. So as kind of an adjunct, would you say, "Well, geez, my life insurance is running out in three years, four years, should I be looking to spend another 6,000 a year at this age?" It'll be very expensive, but another 6,000 a year to have another 10, 15 years of life insurance for the wife and younger and the kids, kind of thing, or young wife?
Rob West: I don't think so, unless you're going to continue to work and they're going to be relying on your income, and if your income goes away, they're going to create hardship, or that's going to create hardship. Because it sounds like to me you've got the ideal scenario, which is the one we try to, you know, put in place, and that is we have insurance during our working years. But if your insurance, your life insurance is set to run out at—you're 66, three, you said three years, that's 69—you know, the ideal would be you no longer have a need for life insurance at that point, because all the assets you've accumulated through your work through your income are there.
Your family's no longer relying on your income because you've transitioned into what God has for you next. Now, maybe you're still working full-time or part-time at 69, and that may be a possibility, and if that's the case, maybe you get a smaller 10-year policy. But if you can answer the question, "What risk exists if my income goes away at age 70?" and say there is no added risk because everything we've accumulated is enough, you know, my survivor benefits on Social Security, my retirement accounts, you know, whatever other income sources, that's what my wife is going to live on, then there's no reason to spend six grand a year on a 10-year policy, because that risk has gone away.
AJ: Okay. Okay. And as far as the the rule of 100 or 110, you know, 45% in equities, 55 in bonds, kind of stuff, would you be thinking that gold or other more solid—again, I'm leaning toward the conservative, and this is really a faith-filled encouragement you're giving me, so I appreciate this very much. But still, this idea of should I be looking more for some of it, land or gold or something like that, at least at this age for the investments with the for security, or is that still speculative and I shouldn't be, you know, bouncing into that stuff?
Rob West: No, there's nothing wrong with real estate. I love real estate. There's nothing wrong with gold. I think the key is just understand what you're getting. So with gold, I wouldn't have more than 5, at the most 10% of your investable assets. I like gold. It's a hedge, it's a store of value, it's uncorrelated, it, you know, with high inflation, you know, it or a dollar that's weakening, it's really helpful. But it doesn't have the long-term performance that stocks and bonds do, and it doesn't generate any income, which stocks and bonds do.
So, you know, I think, and for that reason, I would limit your exposure to gold. What about real estate? I love real estate. It's just now all of a sudden you're becoming a landlord, you need to be, you know, ready to take that on, you know, you need to make sure that, you know, this is what you want. But alongside a properly diversified stock and bond portfolio, real estate can be fabulous, but it's not a passive investment, so you just need to understand that.
Now, 45 might be the equity position based on the rule of 110 as a starting point. You may say, "I want to dial that down." You know, maybe for you, it's at age 66, it's a 60/40 portfolio or a 70/30. Fine. You know, you're the steward, and I think you and your wife before the Lord need to pray through this and talk it through and then build your plan. But, you know, I think there's something to be said about having that equity position well into the future given your age. Thanks for your call. We'll be right back.
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Rob West: Great to have you with us today on Faith and Finance here on American Family Radio. I had a visit—I had a chance to visit with A.J. during the break, and the last thing I shared with him is, you know, the other piece of this is the role of an advisor in this equation, the role of an investment advisor. Because if you've got an advisor that understands his or her role, and we recommend a Certified Kingdom Advisor who's met the experience and the character and the faith requirements that we have here, you're going to have somebody who's very curious about you, and you're going to have somebody who does a lot of discovery about what is God's story that He's writing in your life, and what are your values, and where are you going, and how can your investments support that, and what are your giving desires, and what is your lifestyle, what are your income needs and your risk tolerance. And then the advisor builds a portfolio that reflects that, and then now you're in a really good spot because the advisor, once that's built—and the advisor's bringing investments to the table perhaps that you don't even aren't even aware of—now the advisor's taking a rules-based approach to this investment strategy. So when the Strait of Hormuz closes, or oil's above $100 a barrel, or the midterms don't go the way you want, you're no longer saying, "Uh-oh, maybe I ought to go to cash." No, you've got an advisor who says, "No, we're going to stay the course." Now, ultimately, you're in control. If you want to do something, they'll do it, but, you know, they should be pushing back in a thoughtful way to say, "No, remember, let me remind you why we have the investment mix we do, and why we have the allocation we have, and we stay invested because over time, you know, we do well and we offset inflation, and we grow this wealth that God has entrusted to us." So, I think an advisor is really a key piece of this equation. By the way, if you want to find a CKA in your area, just go to findacka.com. Let's go to Ohio. Andrew, go ahead.
Andrew: Hey, the root question is: Should I change my future contributions to my employer-sponsored plan to a Roth versus the traditional? It's in a 403(b). Reason being, my wife and I—I'm the sole bread income there—we've got 700,000 in that traditional in there. We've got a nice HSA. And we've really moved into the accumulation and the generous giving, which has been a blessing. Even just to hear about shoes and how humbling it is to just be able to call in. And so, I wanted to get your thoughts on moving maybe more into the Roth phase of it now instead of away from the traditional. What are your what's your thoughts with that?
Rob West: Yeah, love this question. And, you know, having the option to contribute to both traditional 403(b) contributions and Roth can be really valuable. I wouldn't automatically switch everything to Roth, but adding Roth contributions can make a lot of sense, particularly, you know, since you have currently all of your retirement savings on the traditional, pre-tax side. The basic tradeoff is taxes now versus taxes later. The traditional, you know, reduces your taxable income today, which if you're at the peak of your earning or close to it, you know, that's really valuable. And then you'd pay the tax later. The benefit of the Roth is, you don't get that deduction, you pay the tax first, but you get all that tax-free growth and no required minimums down the road. And given the uncertainties about where tax rates will be 25, 30 years from now when you're drawing this money out, it will give you the flexibility at that point, given the unknowns today, to say, "All right, which bucket do I want to pull from given the realities of what I now know today when you're, you know, 30 years older?" And so, you know, I think that's a good idea to kind of have both. There was a study done not too long ago—well, actually, it's been a while now—but the researchers, I think it was University of Arizona, they looked at hundreds and hundreds of actual retirement scenarios, real people, and they were trying to determine what is the optimal mix between pre-tax and after-tax retirement contributions. And their rule of thumb, and that's all it is, was you add the number 20 to your age, and that's what you put in the pre-tax, and you put the balance in Roth. So, you're 42. In their scenario, you'd put 62—let's call it, round it down to 60. You'd do 60 in the pre-tax, and you'd do 40 in the Roth. And then as you age, you know, that number obviously grows toward the pre-tax because, you know, for the reasons I mentioned.
Andrew: Okay. Yeah, and my income, I don't foresee it really going up. I think it's plateaued. Even over the next 15 years, it'll move with inflation. And so, I'm really thinking my income during retirement may be about the same as it is now. So, based on what we would accumulate.
Rob West: Yeah, that's the goal. So, that'd be great. And if you had more of that in Roth, you know, that would just give you more flexibility and less tax burden, and you wouldn't have to worry about the impact on Medicare, you know, by being forced to pull out taxable income through the required minimums. When you take it out of the Roth, it doesn't add anything to your taxable income, which means, you know, the Medicare and the amount of your Social Security that's taxable isn't affected by your retirement withdrawals.
Andrew: Okay. And as I understand it, I can use our HSA, which is already about 50, we can use that for those future healthcare expenses, which they've just been it's just been growing tax-free.
Rob West: Oh, yeah. I mean, the HSA is probably the secret weapon of retirement because you get this triple tax advantage: You get the deduction when it goes in, you get the tax-free growth, and then you get the tax-free withdrawals as long as you're using the money for qualified medical expenses. And, you know, that's just a huge win, especially if you can max it out, you're relatively healthy, you're not needing it, and you invest it, which is what you've done. It becomes really a phenomenal additional bucket to pull from in that season.
Andrew: Okay. Well, thank you so much. I'm going to look at my employer-sponsored plan to see how I can start moving over future contributions to some in the Roth.
Rob West: Very good. I love the plan, Andrew. Thanks for your call. Lord bless you, and call anytime. Let's go to Texas and welcome Karen. You'll be our final caller. Go ahead.
Karen: Oh, thank you. Thank you so much. I appreciate it. And I called you a few weeks ago, and I know we're running out of time. Thank you for the book you sent me. I'm currently I'm currently 68, and we've been married I've known my husband 49 years, and we've been married 43, and we're going through a divorce. And I try to listen to you every morning, and sometimes I only just catch parts of it. You were talking—I never even thought about it—but getting credit on my own because for 43 years, we've had a joint account, and I don't know what that means for me as far as trying to get my own credit. We're in the process of divorce. The papers haven't been signed yet, so...
Rob West: Oh, so sorry. Yeah. Wow, I'm so sorry, Karen. You said joint account, so are you talking about a credit card or something else?
Karen: We don't—well, both. We don't have any debt. The house is paid off. We do have a credit card, but mostly I use a debit card. He likes to use a credit card for perks and stuff like that, so...
Rob West: I see. Yeah, I mean, if you were an authorized user, you know, you're probably getting the benefit of the history, but, you know, you do need to establish credit in your own name, especially—it's particularly important during a divorce because, you know, the divorce decree doesn't automatically remove someone's liability to a creditor, but you are going to need to establish independent credit. And I'd build it slowly, you know, rather than taking on any debt just to create a score. I mean, the next step for you would be either a secured or an unsecured credit card, not because you want to, you know, carry debt and pay interest, but just, you know, moving some of those budgeted monthly expenses to a credit card that's going to be reported to your credit file with you being an on-time payer with a very low credit utilization that's going to just begin to establish credit for you. You probably aren't going to need much credit. I mean, I don't see you, you know, unless you're going to go out and take on a mortgage or buy a car and get a loan, your credit really doesn't matter very much. But, you know, if you could have a credit card in your name and you put an automatic recurring charge or just something, you know, going to the grocery store every month and then you pay it off in full and that gets reported to your credit file, that's not a bad thing. That would just help get that score up so if you ever did need, you know, to take advantage of something that required a credit check, you'd have some credit, you know, to justify it.
Karen: Yeah, and that's what we did with our children. You know, we gave them credit cards in high school just to buy their gas, and, you know, then we, you know, they or we paid it off, just but they were only allowed to use it for gas for their car. So, but how do I go about that? I mean, is a bank if I walk in and say I have no credit, I mean, I just want to establish a new credit card, or how do I go about that? I thought that might be a dumb question.
Rob West: No, no, no, not at all. Absolutely not. So, you've got a couple of options. Yeah, you would just want to pick a credit card that, you know, doesn't have an annual fee, you know, and you could either go a secured card, which you could go to your local bank and you'd put a certain amount on deposit, and that's what they would give you as far as your credit goes, which doesn't require you really to have any credit because they have no risk, because there's an amount on deposit, and then you're just charging against it and paying it back. Or you could get an unsecured card where they just extend a certain amount to you, maybe $500 or $1,000, and you charge against it. Either case could be, you know, something that that could be really helpful to you. Let's do this: I'm going to connect you with a Certified Christian Financial Counselor just to help you walk through what you need to know to get that set up. And that'll give you a sounding board of somebody who is trained to help people with budgets and spending plans and the like. So, stay on the line. My team will get your information, Karen. We'll get a Certified Christian Financial Counselor in touch with you, and they will help walk you through all of this, and it's our gift to you, okay? Lord bless you. Thanks for calling today. Well, let me say a big thanks to my team today. I certainly couldn't do this without them: Adam Suddeth, so thankful for Patty Pumphrey, grateful for Taylor Standrich, Afton Phillips, everybody here at FaithFi that makes this possible on a daily basis, Kevin Light, Ashley Sugar, the entire team. Hey, if you want to give to help put shoes on a child in some part of the world who doesn't have them, just go to giveshoestoday.org. Every $15 will cover a new pair of shoes, socks, and the cost of the transportation. We'll see you tomorrow.
For millions of vulnerable children around the world, shoes can mean the difference between going to school—and staying home. For most families, a new pair of shoes is simply part of getting ready for another school year. But not everywhere. On this Faith & Finance on AFR, Shawn Spurrier joins Rob West to share how Buckner Shoes for Orphan Souls is helping children step into the classroom with health, dignity, and hope. Then it’s on to calls.
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