Rob West: Generosity can begin with a simple gift, but when it becomes a family rhythm, its impact can last for generations. Hi, I'm Rob West. We want our children to experience the joy of giving, but generosity rarely develops by accident. Sharon Epps joins us today with practical ways to cultivate a generous spirit in your family, from the early years through adulthood. And then it's on to your phone calls at 800-525-7000. That's 800-525-7000. This is Faith and Finance on American Family Radio. Biblical wisdom for your financial decisions.
Well, it's always a pleasure to welcome Sharon Epps back to the program. Sharon is President of Kingdom Advisors, our parent ministry, which equips Christian financial professionals to integrate biblical wisdom into the advice and guidance they provide. Sharon, as always, great to have you back.
Sharon Epps: I'm glad to be here.
Rob West: Sharon, you're also the co-founder of Women Doing Well, a ministry that helps women discover greater purpose, joy, and generosity, and encourages them to cultivate that same spirit in their families. So, this topic is especially meaningful to you, I know. Let's take a look at generosity opportunities, perhaps by age group. When parents want to nurture generosity in young children, let's say, where do they begin?
Sharon Epps: Oh, I love this because often we think, "Well, they need to be able to count money before they can be generous." But no! We can model giving through just simple and short activities, and kids learn by watching us. So, take them with you when you go to buy groceries and then drop them off at a food bank. Let them see.
Rob West: The groceries, not the kids, right? Yeah, okay, good. Yeah.
Sharon Epps: That's right! Yes, yes. I love for them to be able to see you in action.
Rob West: Yes.
Sharon Epps: Another idea would be to host a reverse birthday party. And that's where the guests actually bring gifts for a charity that your child helps to choose. Age-appropriate, of course. They may still expect a little something, but it's great to have something to give away as well. And then, finally for this age group, keep some blank cards handy and let them draw or even write some little letters—an encouragement note that you can send to somebody in need.
Rob West: Oh, I love those ideas. They are so practical! What are some other practical, hands-on ways families can help, perhaps elementary children experience the joy of giving?
Sharon Epps: Well, as they get older, you can volunteer side-by-side at a local ministry, especially one that might be serving other children. And then you can also begin sponsoring a child on, maybe, your child's fifth birthday, and let them sponsor a child of a similar age. That's always a great journey for them to grow together.
Rob West: Man, those are great. As children enter their teenage years, Sharon, how can parents connect generosity to the causes and interests they already care about?
Sharon Epps: Well, this is where we really want to connect with their passions. So, if they're interested in hiking, for instance, perhaps they could help invest in a Christian family camp. Spring break or other holidays could become a "serve week" where you do fun things and help charity.
Rob West: My kids, for instance, went on spring break mission trips growing up. They continued it in college because it just became "what we do," and I think that's exactly right. Now, generosity often involves sacrifice. So, what are some creative ways parents can help teenagers experience the cost and the joy of giving?
Sharon Epps: Well, this is where you can involve them experientially. So, you know, there's a "survivor pantry challenge" where you live off of what's already in the house and limit your grocery purchases. That's something that can be fun, but also educational for those older kids.
Rob West: Yeah, that is so good. All right, now as we transition into adulthood, what does it look like to encourage generosity there?
Sharon Epps: Oh, there's so many great things. But one of the ones I would encourage you to think about is opening a donor-advised fund in their name. Help seed it, and perhaps match money that they add to give away to others.
Rob West: Mm, this is great. Sharon, what I love here is that, yes, we can give money, but we can give so much more than that. We can give through our service, we can give through our time, and this has really been a hallmark of your teaching for a long time—is that we need to expand our view of generosity, don't we?
Sharon Epps: It really is a whole-life, purpose-filled generosity that makes a difference.
Rob West: Mm-hmm. And Sharon, you've seen the fruit of this. Perhaps one story that comes to mind from your own family as you've done this with your kids?
Sharon Epps: Oh, absolutely. In fact, my daughter adopted a Compassion child when she was five and kept up with her all the way through as they aged out, and it was a beautiful experience.
Rob West: That is so good. Well, it's clear: generosity is caught more than taught. And when families practice it together, they plant seeds that can grow for a lifetime. Sharon, great ideas! Thanks for stopping by today.
Sharon Epps: Glad to be here.
Rob West: That's Sharon Epps, President of Kingdom Advisors. By the way, if you want to learn more about Kingdom Advisors—perhaps share Kingdom Advisors with your advisor—just head to kingdomadvisors.com or direct your advisor to do the same. That's kingdomadvisors.com.
All right, a quick break, and then back with your questions after this. The number: 800-525-7000. That's 800-525-7000. We'll be right back.
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Rob West: Thanks for joining us today on Faith and Finance here on American Family Radio. I'm Rob West. Really glad you're along with us today. You know, we take this work really seriously because we know it's a high calling to manage God's resources. We're stewards, managers of everything entrusted to us by the Lord, and we want to manage it faithfully. Each day we want to come alongside you, encourage you, help you to look to God's word, to Scripture, to understand how we're to manage the resources of the King of Kings. What is the heart of God in Scripture related to money management, and how can you and I apply that on a daily basis?
We started today by talking about generosity. You know, generosity is caught more than taught, and when families practice it together, they plant seeds that can grow for a lifetime. We want to raise generous children. We want to raise generous families. We want to live a generous life. Why? Well, generosity is a response to grace. You know, we don't need to be convinced that giving is good or that we should live with open hands. But if we're honest, generosity doesn't always come easy. You know, we run the numbers. Maybe we're worried about the future. Perhaps we wonder if our small gift will matter. Or we calculate our giving based on what we feel we can afford.
But I think beneath these questions—and I write about this in my devotional, Our Ultimate Treasure—we ask this question: Do we really need to give? And if so, how do we know how much? Well, I want to talk about that for a moment today. Let me mention, though, we will be taking your calls and questions beginning in just a moment. So if you have a question today, call right now: 800-525-7000. Any financial question in play today, we'd love to hear from you. Again, that number is 800-525-7000. We would love to get you on the air. Our team is standing by, and you will not be holding long. 800-525-7000. We'll head to those phones here in just a moment.
But here's the reality: if our giving is just another obligation, it's always going to feel heavy. If it's only about what we can afford, it will always feel scarce. You know, Scripture starts generosity somewhere far deeper than our budgets, and actually starts with our identity. Listen to this from the Apostle Paul: "By grace you have been saved through faith, and it's the gift of God." You see, before you ever give a dollar, remember: you are a recipient of mercy, and forgiveness, and adoption, and daily bread, and a future that's secure with Christ. You're a living gift of grace. You received it, and you're living on it each day, and I am as well. And that changes everything!
Now, Paul takes it a bit further in Second Corinthians 8:9. Listen to this: "For you know the grace of our Lord Jesus, that though He was rich, yet for your sake He became poor, so that you by His poverty might become rich." That's the gospel. That's the upside-down gospel: that Jesus emptied Himself and took on the role of a servant as He came to identify with us—still 100% God, yet 100% man—emptied Himself even to death on a cross, so that in our poverty, our destitute state, we became rich because of what He has done on our behalf. What a powerful picture of divine generosity! He doesn't cling to His status or His glory; He pours Himself out and enters our poverty so we can share in His riches.
This is the heart of the gospel. But not just for forgiveness of sin—I think it's in part a transformation into a generous people, because God's grace doesn't just rescue us from something, it invites us into something. And that thing it invites us into is a life that reflects the Giver. So then, our giving is not in an effort to earn God's favor; rather, it's a response to the favor we've already been given. First John 4:19: "We love because He first loved us." So perhaps today you begin to think about generosity as a response to the grace and love we've been given. Salvation isn't something we earn, it's a gift, and it fuels our giving to be joyful, and free, and grace-filled. And that changes completely our giving. Now, with that giving comes incredible joy, because we are able to participate in God's redemptive work in the world.
I hope that's an encouragement to you today as you think about the response that you have to the grace you've received—like I have—and our natural outpouring is then to be a generous people.
All right, let's take some questions today. The lines are filling up. We've got a few open at the moment, so if you have a question, call right now: 800-525-7000. Again, that's 800-525-7000. Let's go to Texas. Donna, how can I help you?
Donna: Well, hi, yes. Um, my husband is recently retired, and we have a city pension of $5,000 a month. We also have a lump sum of $970,000 to invest to help augment that. And I hear a lot about, um, you know, investment firms, and that sometimes the stuff that, uh, is steadiest is maybe not, uh, very ethical. We want to invest our money in a way that is, um, you know, wholesome.
Rob West: Yeah. Yeah.
Donna: And God-honoring.
Rob West: I love that. Yeah, that's great, Donna. Well, listen, you all obviously have lived modestly, you've prioritized, you know, living within your means, so you've been able to save. You've got this pension that covers your base guaranteed income, and then you have this really nice nest egg on top of that, as you said, to supplement your income. And how much are you currently pulling from the $970,000 on a monthly basis?
Donna: We're not pulling anything from it right now. Um, we did have a monthly income of around $9,000.
Rob West: Okay.
Donna: And it's only been a couple of months since he retired, so we haven't had what you consider a normal month yet. We're living off basically just other, um, savings that we had.
Rob West: Got it. Okay. And as you look at your retirement budget, what a normal month will look like, how much do you think you will need to supplement your pension with? And by the way, you're not receiving Social Security now, I expect, but you will in the future, which will help this equation, right?
Donna: Well, I will. Um, he won't because he chose the city pension option.
Rob West: Got it. Okay.
Donna: So, and I did have a question for that, because, um, if I were to start collecting those benefits early, I'd get around $700 a month. If I wait until 65, it'd be in the $900s.
Rob West: Okay. Yeah. And so you're wondering whether it makes sense for you to go ahead and wait?
Donna: Sure. Yeah.
Rob West: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Well, this is a great question. Um, but if you haven't taken it yet, which you clearly haven't, um, then, you know, I like the idea of you having that extra $200 a month, um, because that's going to be for the rest of your life, and the cost of living increases on top of that. Um, so that would be a nice supplement. I would probably wait, um, especially because you don't need the money. Um, how much do you anticipate you're going to need beyond your pension benefits to supplement, just based on a normal month?
Donna: Well, I mean, it's a little tricky because it's just so hard to plan for inflation. I mean, I can look at it and say we were doing, you know, fine and saving money when we had the $9,000 a month income.
Rob West: Yeah. Okay.
Donna: And so right now, that would be great.
Rob West: Sure. Sure. Yeah, but it sounds like, you know, you won't need that much largely because that included your long-term retirement savings, which clearly you're no longer doing, and other expenses tend to go down as well. You know, I don't know whether you had debt and you recently paid it off, but obviously that's no longer a factor. So, sounds like you're in great shape. I mean, you know, typically we would say on that million dollars, you would pull somewhere between 4% and 5% a year and be able to maintain that, you know, for the rest of your life. Um, and that would be $40,000 to $50,000 that you could use to add to the $5,000, even before you take Social Security, which I would delay. Um, and that's going to put you in a good spot since you're no longer saving for the future. So, that's all great. After this break, I'll talk about the faith-aligned investments. Stay right there.
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Rob West: Great to have you with us today on Faith & Finance here on American Family Radio. Coming up in our final segment today, Bob Doll stops by. We'll get Bob's take on what's moving the markets—oil back up today as President Trump saying the U.S. will hit Iran pretty hard in the coming days. Oil reacting—the oil markets, the price of Brent Crude up about 6% this morning, and that's weighing on the markets. The Dow Jones down 1.5%, the Nasdaq off 1%. Bob will give us his take on that ahead of a Fed decision, which Bob will weigh in on as well. That's in our final segment today.
Before the break, we were talking to Donna in Texas. She's 61, her husband is 63 and retired. He has a pension that's coming in monthly of $5,000. As a result of that city pension, he opted out of Social Security. She has Social Security coming; at 65, that would be $900 a month, and slightly higher than that at full retirement age. And they have about $1 million saved that they have not had to pull from yet, but they expect to, because they were living on about $9,000 a month pre-retirement, although that included their retirement savings, which of course is no longer needed.
So, Donna, you all are in good shape. I know you asked about investing in a way that aligns with your values, and, you know, I love this, because, you know, God calls His people to, in Jeremiah 29:7, "seek the welfare of the city." And I think that's a mission we still carry today, and one that investing can uniquely support. Because when we wisely invest in businesses and communities, we can seek to advance the common good. You know, investing supplies capital for human flourishing by resourcing businesses that produce goods and services—that creates jobs, and supplies people with the things that they need, and promotes dignity and justice and opportunity in ways that reflect God's care for the world.
But I think Christians, you know, more and more, especially now that we have more world-class, faith-aligned investments available today in the public markets, you know, are wanting to approach faithful investing in a more intentional way. You know, some choose to avoid certain industries, so they might eliminate certain companies from their portfolio that would be in an industry that is misaligned with their values—perhaps tobacco industry, or gambling, or, you know, maybe something that offers media that includes pornography—I mean, any number of things that Christians, out of a conviction or to honor their conscience, will avoid. Others choose to engage the companies for positive change in the world by, you know, through their company ownership. Others will seek to invest specifically in ventures that promote human flourishing or even advance God's kingdom. And, you know, those three ideas can even be pursued all at once in some cases.
You know, the best way to do this, Donna, is really—now, you can go directly to the mutual fund families that take this faith-based approach. You hear many of them on this program, like Timothy Plan, and Eventide, and GuideStone, and Eventide, and others, and you could find them on our website at faithfi.com. But more often, especially someone in the retirement season where they want to delegate the management of this significant nest egg that you've built to an advisor to make those decisions for you in terms of building the portfolio, will choose a Certified Kingdom Advisor who offers a faith-based investment approach.
And the best way to find somebody like that, you know, there in Texas, is just to go to findacka.com. And when you say "I want a CKA in the investment area," one of the questions it will ask you is: "Do you want traditional investments or faith-based investments?" And if you choose faith-based investments, the only CKAs in your area that will be displayed are those that have this ability to offer faith-based investments in client portfolios. So, that'd be the direction I would go, because I love this desire that you and your husband have. I completely concur with it, and there's more opportunities now to do that than ever before. But give me your thoughts on all that.
Donna: No, that sounds great. I mean, we... I wouldn't be happy to be having an income and find out it was coming from some place that was, uh, I don't know, promoting abortion, or alcohol, or gambling, and that sort of thing. So, that just kind of seems like abusing what God's given us.
Rob West: Yeah. Yeah, well, I certainly appreciate that, and I think, you know, again, more and more believers are coming to that conclusion as well, that listen, if I'm going to be a part-owner in a company, even if it's a very small percentage, I want to be in companies that, you know, are promoting the common good, or at the very least are not participating in activities that I don't want to have any part of. And so, again, that next step for you, Donna, would be findacka.com. I'd interview maybe two or three that offer faith-based investments, and maybe you and your husband can find one that you feel like is a good fit. And, you know, that would give you not only the planning side where they could help you think about being tax-efficient in this season and when is the appropriate time to take your Social Security, but also build that portfolio that's God-honoring.
Thank you for your call today. If we can help along the way, let us know. And stay on the line; I want to send you a copy of a book that I really love called An Uncommon Guide to Retirement that might give you a vision, perhaps a biblical vision, for what this next season can look like. And it's our gift to you. Stay on the line. Thanks for your call today.
800-525-7000. We've got lines open. If you have a question on anything financial, call right now. Let's go to... well, we'll stay in Texas. Irma, how can I help you?
Irma: Hi. So, I'm basically calling to ask... faith-based, that's your line, what all ministers or anyone of true faith... However, I see that more funds that are going into the church, the minister, the pastors are truly benefiting from those funds. For me, I completely disagree with that philosophy. The greater the numbers increase in your church, the greater the salary increases. My philosophy, Jesus would have never charged or benefited financially from services that He provided. So why do ministers, as their church grows, their pocket grows? That should not align with faith-based ministry. Secondly, and I know I need to let you go, I listen and I absolutely love this station. I started listening maybe two months, three months ago. I find that there's a lot of allegedly Christians on this station as a whole throughout the day, there's such negativity that comes from the station. That is not aligning with God's intention, nor what Jesus would have...
Rob West: Well, I really, really appreciate that, Irma. Unfortunately, I'm up against what I call a hard break, where I have to be out at a certain moment here. But stay on the line, because you brought up some great thoughts that I want to address right after this break. We'll be right back.
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Rob West: Thanks for joining us today on Faith & Finance here on American Family Radio. I'm Rob West. Coming up in our next segment, Bob Doll stops by. A lot moving the markets today. We'll get Bob's take on all of it straight ahead.
Before the break, we had a great call from Irma, and she's recently found American Family Radio, appreciates the programming. Irma, we're delighted you're one of our newest listeners. And I hear you that there can be plenty of discouraging things going on in the world. The good news is we have the hope of the gospel, and that's what AFA and AFR are all about. It's proclaiming the gospel, it's building up the church, it's creating cultural change agents to be out there standing for religious freedom and the gospel and biblical values in the marketplace. And we take very seriously that call that has been on this ministry from day one, going all the way back to Brother Don and the work that continues today. And so we're delighted you're here.
You bring up another great point just about compensation to pastors. And I think there's two issues you raised. One is just: how do we think about giving to the work of the church that, in part, is paying for pastors, and how do we view that biblically? And then you brought up this second issue, which is: what about a growing church that results in increasing compensation for the pastor?
I think, you know, Scripture clearly supports paying pastors for their ministry. I would direct you to 1 Timothy 5:17–18. It teaches that the elders who lead and teach are worthy of honor, and adds—and I'll quote from God's Word—"The worker deserves his wages." And 1 Corinthians 9:14, likewise, says that those who preach the gospel may receive their living from the gospel. And Galatians 6:6 also encourages believers to share good things with those who teach them God's Word.
We see, you know, the three women—Chuza, and two others—that in God's Word, Mary and Susanna, I believe, was the third, that supported Jesus and the disciples. Out of their means, they supported ministry, we read in the Gospel of Luke. And so, clearly that's affirmed in Scripture.
And we recognize that full-time pastoral ministry involves much more than preaching. You know, pastors counsel members, and oversee church administration, and visit the sick, and conduct weddings and funerals, and care for the congregation's spiritual needs. And it requires significant time and responsibility. And receiving financial support, you know, clearly is not wrong, but in fact, supported.
Some pastors are bivocational in a very small church, but I think, certainly, Scripture doesn't require every pastor to support himself through another job. And supporting our pastors fully, I think, allows them to devote time and energy to serving the church. And I think they should be paid appropriately. You know, Scripture supports fair pastoral compensation. Doesn't teach that a pastor's pay should automatically rise when the church attendance increases, but I think a larger church often brings greater responsibility, including supervising staff, and a more complex ministry and budget, and carrying increased pastoral demands. And I think, clearly, those factor in and reasonably justify a higher compensation.
You know, I lead a ministry and sit on a board—chair a board of another—and, you know, we, not only before the IRS have a responsibility, but also to the donors to pay appropriate levels of compensation. And the way we determine appropriate is based on what you call salary surveys, where you'll go out and compare the salaries of other similar organizations in terms of ministry purpose, the size of the budget, you know, things like that and other factors. And you base the salary based on what is reasonable, based on a comparative analysis.
And that, you know, those salaries do rise as the ministry size rises because, again, of the leadership skills and the complexity involved. And therefore, you know, you pay more. And that's just, you know, how we operate as non-profits.
You know, so I think a healthy church clearly should provide enough for the pastor and his family to live without financial strain, account for inflation, local living costs—which is a factor—and recognize added responsibilities. But it needs to be set by independent, spiritually mature leaders using transparent standards and comparable salaries and regular review.
So, hopefully, that at least gives you at least my perspective on how I review Scripture on this matter, and then also how we think about it in terms of compensation that increases as the church grows in size. But thank you so much for being an AFR listener, and if we can serve you in any way in the future, please don't hesitate to reach out.
Rob West: Let's go to Mississippi. Kim, go ahead.
Kim: Hi, Rob. This is Kim. I talked to you a couple weeks ago, and I appreciate you taking my call. Sorry to bother you again, but my husband and I did get an appointment with Harry Pearson in Birmingham, and that's on 13 August. Anyway, thank you so very much. His assistant, Kimbo, was wonderful. We appreciate you.
But we do have a quick question. We have a CD in a credit union—my husband's retired military—and we wondered, it matures on the first of August. Do you have any recommendations what we should do with that since we're not meeting with Harry until afterwards?
Rob West: Yeah, it's a great question. I'm delighted you're connecting with a CKA there in Birmingham. And I know Harry personally. He's an incredible man of God, and you're in for a treat. Sounds like he is as well. You and your husband sound like just incredible Christ-followers, and so I'm delighted that you're going to be working together.
You know, the key is you want to let the bank know that you don't want it to roll over, because what you don't want it to do is to get locked into another CD. And so, just given that we're talking a couple of weeks, really what you're going to want to look for is for it to slide over into either a money market or a high-yield savings where you're going to earn some interest, but you've got the liquidity, which means that when you're ready, and you and the advisor build an investment strategy that you and your husband are comfortable with, that it can be then transferred into that new account—probably a joint account in you and your husband's name, unless this is an IRA, I can't remember. But you want it liquid so you don't have to break that CD.
Remind me what that institution is that has the CD. Is it a bank or credit union?
Kim: It is. It's a military—whatever, Army Federal Credit Union. Yes, mm-hmm.
Rob West: Yes, very good. So, I would just call them and find out, "What is your—I need this not to roll over into another CD. I want it to be liquid, but I need your most competitive rate." And ask them what type of account. And you want, you know, it guaranteed—FDIC insurance or NCUA.
And they'll tell you, "Yeah, we want to move it to our high-yield savings, and it'll pay 3%," or whatever it is. And that'd be a great place for it to sit for a couple of weeks.
Kim: Okay, awesome. Well, thank you. God bless you, Rob, and thank you so much for all you've done for us. We're excited about meeting and what the Lord has in store for us, too, as far as giving. So, we appreciate you.
Rob West: I am as well. Lord bless you, Kim. You sound like just a wonderful lady, and if I can help you in any way in the future, please don't hesitate to call. God bless you.
Let's go out to Texas. Eddie, how can I help you?
Eddie: Sir, thank you for taking my call. My question is like on mutual funds offered by insurance companies. Is that a fixed rate kind of like a—if it's 5% on 100,000, just for example, each year they're going to pay you $5,000, or is that a compounding-like interest rate that grows the more you get it in there?
Rob West: Yeah, great question there, Eddie. You know, the key distinction between a mutual fund and an insurance product is a mutual fund doesn't offer a fixed rate of return. It rises and falls with the investments they own. With a fixed annuity, though, on the other hand, that does leave the interest in the account, or if you do, it will compound over time, and it is guaranteed, but certainly different than a mutual fund.
Stay on the line. I'll explain that a little bit more, and we'll be right back after this break. Stay with us.
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Rob West: Great to have you with us today on Faith & Finance here on American Family Radio. I'm Rob West. We may have room for one more phone call if you've got a question today. Call 800-525-7000. But in the meantime, Bob Doll is here, and good thing! Lots of red on my screen, I'm sure there's even more on yours, Bob. And I guess, you know, we've got a Fed decision coming, but beyond that, you know, the on-again, off-again war, we're on again, I guess, with President Trump saying prepare for Iran to be hit hard. Oil's reacting. How do you process everything going on today?
Bob Doll: Well, with great difficulty. The war is the most difficult because one day it's on, two days later it's off, and we don't know a direction. Stocks do respond to oil prices because the price of oil has a lot to do with economic growth, the ability of people to spend money, etc., etc. So when it goes up, markets get nervous, especially at these high valuations. So that's the driver today. The uncertainty around the Fed is certainly a secondary issue, but by and large, people are expecting the Fed to not do anything with rates. The interest will be: what do they say, how do they say it, and how concerned do they sound about inflation?
Rob West: Are you expecting Powell to face some strong dissent, Bob?
Bob Doll: Curiously, if they do not raise rates, he'll have some dissenters that want to do it. If they do raise rates, there's probably going to be more of a decision that has fewer people dissenting. But I think they're going to give it some more time. The oil price is certainly a problem for inflation, but there are other signs that the economy needs to be watched carefully. It's still doing okay, but slowing a bit, and with higher oil prices, it could slow a bit more. Remember, when oil went up so much a few months ago, we had the tax relief, the one big beautiful bill, corporations able to expense a lot of their capital expenditures, and that kind of fought against the rising prices. We don't have that in the offing now.
Rob West: Yeah, no problem. Bob, with regard to corporate earnings, obviously those have started to roll in, and yesterday's move in the market was a result of those continuing to be strong, right?
Bob Doll: Yes, they have been quite strong, setting really records in terms of beating expectations. And you and I have talked about week after week how much earnings estimates keep moving up. If I were to give the fly in the ointment on that, it's that the pace of increase in estimates is slowing. And at these valuation levels, we have to pay attention to what we call the second derivative, and that's what's going on. That's probably part of the reason the market's a little concerned.
Rob West: Yeah. Bob, as you look out across the rest of the world, obviously we have really shrugged the news of the day off because we're still sitting at such elevated levels despite such major disruption in the energy markets in particular. But what about the rest of the world? How are they fairing?
Bob Doll: They are more sensitive, most every other country, to the price of oil moving up and down than we in the U.S. are, because we have so much of our own domestic production and our dependence on oil for every unit of our economy, every unit of GDP, is less. So good news, that is, a drop in the price of oil, is more favorable for international economies than the U.S., and vice versa.
Rob West: Yeah. Bob, obviously gasoline is weighing on consumers, and also these mortgage rates, which have been—even though historically, over a longer period of time, we're probably in more of a normal range here in the sixes than we were down in the threes—just based on what we experienced the last 20 years, that's putting pressure on the consumer as well, right?
Bob Doll: Absolutely. Between gasoline prices and higher mortgage rates, those are two concerns everybody has to have that's watching the economy. Thankfully, the unemployment rate is low, people are working, so there's generally money to spend to keep the economy going. But a much higher price of oil is a concern, and the mortgage rates are keeping a lot of people from thinking about buying a home.
Rob West: Bob, you had a note out in your deliberations this week about the relationship between price and market breadth. Share that with us.
Bob Doll: Yeah, it's a very interesting technical point. What we're seeing is that the stock market, really the S&P 500, made its high about two months ago. And since then, it's been just flailing around, going mostly sideways, down about 3% from its high. But inside the market, the average stock has been moving higher. That is to say, when you have market breadth that is positive—more stocks going up than down—while the averages are kind of going nowhere, that's a divergence. It's generally thought of as a positive divergence when the average stock is beating the big stocks.
Rob West: Yeah, interesting. Something to keep an eye on for sure. Obviously a lot of folks listening today, Bob, that are in that retirement season, they may have that typical 60/40 portfolio—60% stocks, 40% bonds. They're just wondering what to think about yields moving forward. What would you share?
Bob Doll: Yeah, they've been drifting higher, as you know, for many of the reasons we've talked about. And my guess is that there's probably more of a drift higher. Not horrible, but I would have been surprised if you told me at the first of the year that we were going to see 4.75% on a 10-year Treasury, and we're getting close to that—4.65% or so as we speak. So I think yields and interest rates will drift higher as long as this oil price and overall inflation concern is with us.
Rob West: Last question, Bob. Where do we sit just in terms of recession possibility? I mean, are we still in a better place today than we were at the start of the year?
Bob Doll: Yeah, we are, with the exception—I hate to keep coming back to it—of the price of oil. But the signs of a recession are few and far between. Sometimes that's when it shows up, and we have to be vigilant at all points. But the probability of a recession, if you look at the probability models, is pretty low, thank the good Lord.
Rob West: Very good. Bob, we appreciate you, my friend. Thanks for being here.
Bob Doll: Thank you.
Rob West: All right. That's Bob Doll. He is CIO and CEO at Crossmark Global Investments, a leader in faith-based investing. Be sure to check out his weekly investment commentary, "Doll's Deliberations." I count on it each week; it really keeps me in touch with the markets, and it can be delivered to your inbox for free when you sign up at crossmarkglobal.com. That's crossmarkglobal.com.
Rob West: In the news today, a 65-year-old retiring in 2026 may spend an average of—listen to this—$185,500 on healthcare throughout retirement. That's according to Fidelity Investments. That estimate is 7.5% higher than last year. That's driven by rising medical costs, increased use of healthcare services, and a rise in chronic conditions. The estimate assumes enrollment in Medicare Parts A, B, and D. However, Medicare doesn't cover every expense. Now, nearly half of projected costs come from deductibles, copays, and coinsurance, while premiums account for another 45%. Yet, Fidelity found that 54% of pre-retirees mistakenly believe Medicare will cover all of their healthcare expenses.
The total also excludes long-term care, which can add substantial costs. A private nursing home room, for example, has a median annual cost of nearly $128,000, and that was as of 2024 data. By the way, Nathan Sanow, really an expert in this area, a Christ-follower, the leader of the organization behind ltccanconsumer.com—probably the most well-known long-term care insurance website—is going to be on in the next couple of weeks. I was just chatting with him yesterday, and he's going to be sharing some of the latest data around the importance of long-term care insurance, some of the new features in the newer policies that are coming out (which are better than ever in terms of understanding how to price these products), but also some of the new features like, rather than having a daily benefit, they have a monthly benefit.
He also shared something with me yesterday that I think was really important, and that is the importance of medical underwriting when it comes to long-term care insurance. Here was his point: you really want an independent agent or service helping you determine which is the best company for you to apply for long-term care insurance based on your unique medical condition. Because if you go to the wrong company that doesn't treat your medical condition as favorably and denies you, it's a much bigger problem than you just being denied by that company. Because on every subsequent application when you apply for long-term care insurance, they're going to ask the question, "Have you ever been denied for long-term care insurance?" And when you have to answer yes, in many cases, that's an automatic denial; they'll just pass over you.
So it really is important—and he made this point very clear to me, and it was not something I had thought of quite this way—that before you go out and shop (which, by the way, he's saying the best time is around 55, although he's seeing people younger than ever trying to secure these policies), before you go out and start applying, make sure you have a read on the best company that has the sweet spot between the strength of the company and their commitment to these products (long-term care), and one that fits with your medical condition so you're going to get the most favorable treatment and avoid that all-important denial.
So hopefully that's helpful to somebody out there today who might be thinking about seeking long-term care insurance, which, keep in mind, because of what I just said about the costs, is probably your biggest risk. If something's going to erode your assets in that season of life, it's most often going to be costs associated with long-term care. And so that's where long-term care insurance, whether it's a straight policy or a hybrid with a return of premium or some life insurance, could be really helpful. Hope that helps!
Hey, folks, thanks for being along with us today. Listen, Faith & Finance is listener-supported, and as we head toward the end of July, this is a really important time for us to hear from you. We're slightly behind for the month on listener support. So whether you make a one-time gift or you become a FaithFi Partner to receive all of our studies, devotionals, our magazine, and quarterly ministry updates, in either case, we would love for you to support our work when you head to faithfi.com/give. That's faithfi.com/give. Check it out today.
Big thanks to my team today: Patty, Taylor, Devin, and everybody here at FaithFi that makes this possible. Come back and join us tomorrow. May God bless you. Bye-bye.
AFR Disclaimer: The views and opinions expressed in this broadcast may not necessarily reflect those of the American Family Association or American Family Radio.
Rob West: Generosity can begin with a simple gift, but when it becomes a family rhythm, its impact can last for generations. Hi, I'm Rob West. We want our children to experience the joy of giving, but generosity rarely develops by accident. Sharon Epps joins us today with practical ways to cultivate a generous spirit in your family, from the early years through adulthood. And then it's on to your phone calls at 800-525-7000. That's 800-525-7000. This is Faith and Finance on American Family Radio. Biblical wisdom for your financial decisions.
Well, it's always a pleasure to welcome Sharon Epps back to the program. Sharon is President of Kingdom Advisors, our parent ministry, which equips Christian financial professionals to integrate biblical wisdom into the advice and guidance they provide. Sharon, as always, great to have you back.
Sharon Epps: I'm glad to be here.
Rob West: Sharon, you're also the co-founder of Women Doing Well, a ministry that helps women discover greater purpose, joy, and generosity, and encourages them to cultivate that same spirit in their families. So, this topic is especially meaningful to you, I know. Let's take a look at generosity opportunities, perhaps by age group. When parents want to nurture generosity in young children, let's say, where do they begin?
Sharon Epps: Oh, I love this because often we think, "Well, they need to be able to count money before they can be generous." But no! We can model giving through just simple and short activities, and kids learn by watching us. So, take them with you when you go to buy groceries and then drop them off at a food bank. Let them see.
Rob West: The groceries, not the kids, right? Yeah, okay, good. Yeah.
Sharon Epps: That's right! Yes, yes. I love for them to be able to see you in action.
Rob West: Yes.
Sharon Epps: Another idea would be to host a reverse birthday party. And that's where the guests actually bring gifts for a charity that your child helps to choose. Age-appropriate, of course. They may still expect a little something, but it's great to have something to give away as well. And then, finally for this age group, keep some blank cards handy and let them draw or even write some little letters—an encouragement note that you can send to somebody in need.
Rob West: Oh, I love those ideas. They are so practical! What are some other practical, hands-on ways families can help, perhaps elementary children experience the joy of giving?
Sharon Epps: Well, as they get older, you can volunteer side-by-side at a local ministry, especially one that might be serving other children. And then you can also begin sponsoring a child on, maybe, your child's fifth birthday, and let them sponsor a child of a similar age. That's always a great journey for them to grow together.
Rob West: Man, those are great. As children enter their teenage years, Sharon, how can parents connect generosity to the causes and interests they already care about?
Sharon Epps: Well, this is where we really want to connect with their passions. So, if they're interested in hiking, for instance, perhaps they could help invest in a Christian family camp. Spring break or other holidays could become a "serve week" where you do fun things and help charity.
Rob West: My kids, for instance, went on spring break mission trips growing up. They continued it in college because it just became "what we do," and I think that's exactly right. Now, generosity often involves sacrifice. So, what are some creative ways parents can help teenagers experience the cost and the joy of giving?
Sharon Epps: Well, this is where you can involve them experientially. So, you know, there's a "survivor pantry challenge" where you live off of what's already in the house and limit your grocery purchases. That's something that can be fun, but also educational for those older kids.
Rob West: Yeah, that is so good. All right, now as we transition into adulthood, what does it look like to encourage generosity there?
Sharon Epps: Oh, there's so many great things. But one of the ones I would encourage you to think about is opening a donor-advised fund in their name. Help seed it, and perhaps match money that they add to give away to others.
Rob West: Mm, this is great. Sharon, what I love here is that, yes, we can give money, but we can give so much more than that. We can give through our service, we can give through our time, and this has really been a hallmark of your teaching for a long time—is that we need to expand our view of generosity, don't we?
Sharon Epps: It really is a whole-life, purpose-filled generosity that makes a difference.
Rob West: Mm-hmm. And Sharon, you've seen the fruit of this. Perhaps one story that comes to mind from your own family as you've done this with your kids?
Sharon Epps: Oh, absolutely. In fact, my daughter adopted a Compassion child when she was five and kept up with her all the way through as they aged out, and it was a beautiful experience.
Rob West: That is so good. Well, it's clear: generosity is caught more than taught. And when families practice it together, they plant seeds that can grow for a lifetime. Sharon, great ideas! Thanks for stopping by today.
Sharon Epps: Glad to be here.
Rob West: That's Sharon Epps, President of Kingdom Advisors. By the way, if you want to learn more about Kingdom Advisors—perhaps share Kingdom Advisors with your advisor—just head to kingdomadvisors.com or direct your advisor to do the same. That's kingdomadvisors.com.
All right, a quick break, and then back with your questions after this. The number: 800-525-7000. That's 800-525-7000. We'll be right back.
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Rob West: Thanks for joining us today on Faith and Finance here on American Family Radio. I'm Rob West. Really glad you're along with us today. You know, we take this work really seriously because we know it's a high calling to manage God's resources. We're stewards, managers of everything entrusted to us by the Lord, and we want to manage it faithfully. Each day we want to come alongside you, encourage you, help you to look to God's word, to Scripture, to understand how we're to manage the resources of the King of Kings. What is the heart of God in Scripture related to money management, and how can you and I apply that on a daily basis?
We started today by talking about generosity. You know, generosity is caught more than taught, and when families practice it together, they plant seeds that can grow for a lifetime. We want to raise generous children. We want to raise generous families. We want to live a generous life. Why? Well, generosity is a response to grace. You know, we don't need to be convinced that giving is good or that we should live with open hands. But if we're honest, generosity doesn't always come easy. You know, we run the numbers. Maybe we're worried about the future. Perhaps we wonder if our small gift will matter. Or we calculate our giving based on what we feel we can afford.
But I think beneath these questions—and I write about this in my devotional, Our Ultimate Treasure—we ask this question: Do we really need to give? And if so, how do we know how much? Well, I want to talk about that for a moment today. Let me mention, though, we will be taking your calls and questions beginning in just a moment. So if you have a question today, call right now: 800-525-7000. Any financial question in play today, we'd love to hear from you. Again, that number is 800-525-7000. We would love to get you on the air. Our team is standing by, and you will not be holding long. 800-525-7000. We'll head to those phones here in just a moment.
But here's the reality: if our giving is just another obligation, it's always going to feel heavy. If it's only about what we can afford, it will always feel scarce. You know, Scripture starts generosity somewhere far deeper than our budgets, and actually starts with our identity. Listen to this from the Apostle Paul: "By grace you have been saved through faith, and it's the gift of God." You see, before you ever give a dollar, remember: you are a recipient of mercy, and forgiveness, and adoption, and daily bread, and a future that's secure with Christ. You're a living gift of grace. You received it, and you're living on it each day, and I am as well. And that changes everything!
Now, Paul takes it a bit further in Second Corinthians 8:9. Listen to this: "For you know the grace of our Lord Jesus, that though He was rich, yet for your sake He became poor, so that you by His poverty might become rich." That's the gospel. That's the upside-down gospel: that Jesus emptied Himself and took on the role of a servant as He came to identify with us—still 100% God, yet 100% man—emptied Himself even to death on a cross, so that in our poverty, our destitute state, we became rich because of what He has done on our behalf. What a powerful picture of divine generosity! He doesn't cling to His status or His glory; He pours Himself out and enters our poverty so we can share in His riches.
This is the heart of the gospel. But not just for forgiveness of sin—I think it's in part a transformation into a generous people, because God's grace doesn't just rescue us from something, it invites us into something. And that thing it invites us into is a life that reflects the Giver. So then, our giving is not in an effort to earn God's favor; rather, it's a response to the favor we've already been given. First John 4:19: "We love because He first loved us." So perhaps today you begin to think about generosity as a response to the grace and love we've been given. Salvation isn't something we earn, it's a gift, and it fuels our giving to be joyful, and free, and grace-filled. And that changes completely our giving. Now, with that giving comes incredible joy, because we are able to participate in God's redemptive work in the world.
I hope that's an encouragement to you today as you think about the response that you have to the grace you've received—like I have—and our natural outpouring is then to be a generous people.
All right, let's take some questions today. The lines are filling up. We've got a few open at the moment, so if you have a question, call right now: 800-525-7000. Again, that's 800-525-7000. Let's go to Texas. Donna, how can I help you?
Donna: Well, hi, yes. Um, my husband is recently retired, and we have a city pension of $5,000 a month. We also have a lump sum of $970,000 to invest to help augment that. And I hear a lot about, um, you know, investment firms, and that sometimes the stuff that, uh, is steadiest is maybe not, uh, very ethical. We want to invest our money in a way that is, um, you know, wholesome.
Rob West: Yeah. Yeah.
Donna: And God-honoring.
Rob West: I love that. Yeah, that's great, Donna. Well, listen, you all obviously have lived modestly, you've prioritized, you know, living within your means, so you've been able to save. You've got this pension that covers your base guaranteed income, and then you have this really nice nest egg on top of that, as you said, to supplement your income. And how much are you currently pulling from the $970,000 on a monthly basis?
Donna: We're not pulling anything from it right now. Um, we did have a monthly income of around $9,000.
Rob West: Okay.
Donna: And it's only been a couple of months since he retired, so we haven't had what you consider a normal month yet. We're living off basically just other, um, savings that we had.
Rob West: Got it. Okay. And as you look at your retirement budget, what a normal month will look like, how much do you think you will need to supplement your pension with? And by the way, you're not receiving Social Security now, I expect, but you will in the future, which will help this equation, right?
Donna: Well, I will. Um, he won't because he chose the city pension option.
Rob West: Got it. Okay.
Donna: So, and I did have a question for that, because, um, if I were to start collecting those benefits early, I'd get around $700 a month. If I wait until 65, it'd be in the $900s.
Rob West: Okay. Yeah. And so you're wondering whether it makes sense for you to go ahead and wait?
Donna: Sure. Yeah.
Rob West: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Well, this is a great question. Um, but if you haven't taken it yet, which you clearly haven't, um, then, you know, I like the idea of you having that extra $200 a month, um, because that's going to be for the rest of your life, and the cost of living increases on top of that. Um, so that would be a nice supplement. I would probably wait, um, especially because you don't need the money. Um, how much do you anticipate you're going to need beyond your pension benefits to supplement, just based on a normal month?
Donna: Well, I mean, it's a little tricky because it's just so hard to plan for inflation. I mean, I can look at it and say we were doing, you know, fine and saving money when we had the $9,000 a month income.
Rob West: Yeah. Okay.
Donna: And so right now, that would be great.
Rob West: Sure. Sure. Yeah, but it sounds like, you know, you won't need that much largely because that included your long-term retirement savings, which clearly you're no longer doing, and other expenses tend to go down as well. You know, I don't know whether you had debt and you recently paid it off, but obviously that's no longer a factor. So, sounds like you're in great shape. I mean, you know, typically we would say on that million dollars, you would pull somewhere between 4% and 5% a year and be able to maintain that, you know, for the rest of your life. Um, and that would be $40,000 to $50,000 that you could use to add to the $5,000, even before you take Social Security, which I would delay. Um, and that's going to put you in a good spot since you're no longer saving for the future. So, that's all great. After this break, I'll talk about the faith-aligned investments. Stay right there.
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Rob West: Great to have you with us today on Faith & Finance here on American Family Radio. Coming up in our final segment today, Bob Doll stops by. We'll get Bob's take on what's moving the markets—oil back up today as President Trump saying the U.S. will hit Iran pretty hard in the coming days. Oil reacting—the oil markets, the price of Brent Crude up about 6% this morning, and that's weighing on the markets. The Dow Jones down 1.5%, the Nasdaq off 1%. Bob will give us his take on that ahead of a Fed decision, which Bob will weigh in on as well. That's in our final segment today.
Before the break, we were talking to Donna in Texas. She's 61, her husband is 63 and retired. He has a pension that's coming in monthly of $5,000. As a result of that city pension, he opted out of Social Security. She has Social Security coming; at 65, that would be $900 a month, and slightly higher than that at full retirement age. And they have about $1 million saved that they have not had to pull from yet, but they expect to, because they were living on about $9,000 a month pre-retirement, although that included their retirement savings, which of course is no longer needed.
So, Donna, you all are in good shape. I know you asked about investing in a way that aligns with your values, and, you know, I love this, because, you know, God calls His people to, in Jeremiah 29:7, "seek the welfare of the city." And I think that's a mission we still carry today, and one that investing can uniquely support. Because when we wisely invest in businesses and communities, we can seek to advance the common good. You know, investing supplies capital for human flourishing by resourcing businesses that produce goods and services—that creates jobs, and supplies people with the things that they need, and promotes dignity and justice and opportunity in ways that reflect God's care for the world.
But I think Christians, you know, more and more, especially now that we have more world-class, faith-aligned investments available today in the public markets, you know, are wanting to approach faithful investing in a more intentional way. You know, some choose to avoid certain industries, so they might eliminate certain companies from their portfolio that would be in an industry that is misaligned with their values—perhaps tobacco industry, or gambling, or, you know, maybe something that offers media that includes pornography—I mean, any number of things that Christians, out of a conviction or to honor their conscience, will avoid. Others choose to engage the companies for positive change in the world by, you know, through their company ownership. Others will seek to invest specifically in ventures that promote human flourishing or even advance God's kingdom. And, you know, those three ideas can even be pursued all at once in some cases.
You know, the best way to do this, Donna, is really—now, you can go directly to the mutual fund families that take this faith-based approach. You hear many of them on this program, like Timothy Plan, and Eventide, and GuideStone, and Eventide, and others, and you could find them on our website at faithfi.com. But more often, especially someone in the retirement season where they want to delegate the management of this significant nest egg that you've built to an advisor to make those decisions for you in terms of building the portfolio, will choose a Certified Kingdom Advisor who offers a faith-based investment approach.
And the best way to find somebody like that, you know, there in Texas, is just to go to findacka.com. And when you say "I want a CKA in the investment area," one of the questions it will ask you is: "Do you want traditional investments or faith-based investments?" And if you choose faith-based investments, the only CKAs in your area that will be displayed are those that have this ability to offer faith-based investments in client portfolios. So, that'd be the direction I would go, because I love this desire that you and your husband have. I completely concur with it, and there's more opportunities now to do that than ever before. But give me your thoughts on all that.
Donna: No, that sounds great. I mean, we... I wouldn't be happy to be having an income and find out it was coming from some place that was, uh, I don't know, promoting abortion, or alcohol, or gambling, and that sort of thing. So, that just kind of seems like abusing what God's given us.
Rob West: Yeah. Yeah, well, I certainly appreciate that, and I think, you know, again, more and more believers are coming to that conclusion as well, that listen, if I'm going to be a part-owner in a company, even if it's a very small percentage, I want to be in companies that, you know, are promoting the common good, or at the very least are not participating in activities that I don't want to have any part of. And so, again, that next step for you, Donna, would be findacka.com. I'd interview maybe two or three that offer faith-based investments, and maybe you and your husband can find one that you feel like is a good fit. And, you know, that would give you not only the planning side where they could help you think about being tax-efficient in this season and when is the appropriate time to take your Social Security, but also build that portfolio that's God-honoring.
Thank you for your call today. If we can help along the way, let us know. And stay on the line; I want to send you a copy of a book that I really love called An Uncommon Guide to Retirement that might give you a vision, perhaps a biblical vision, for what this next season can look like. And it's our gift to you. Stay on the line. Thanks for your call today.
800-525-7000. We've got lines open. If you have a question on anything financial, call right now. Let's go to... well, we'll stay in Texas. Irma, how can I help you?
Irma: Hi. So, I'm basically calling to ask... faith-based, that's your line, what all ministers or anyone of true faith... However, I see that more funds that are going into the church, the minister, the pastors are truly benefiting from those funds. For me, I completely disagree with that philosophy. The greater the numbers increase in your church, the greater the salary increases. My philosophy, Jesus would have never charged or benefited financially from services that He provided. So why do ministers, as their church grows, their pocket grows? That should not align with faith-based ministry. Secondly, and I know I need to let you go, I listen and I absolutely love this station. I started listening maybe two months, three months ago. I find that there's a lot of allegedly Christians on this station as a whole throughout the day, there's such negativity that comes from the station. That is not aligning with God's intention, nor what Jesus would have...
Rob West: Well, I really, really appreciate that, Irma. Unfortunately, I'm up against what I call a hard break, where I have to be out at a certain moment here. But stay on the line, because you brought up some great thoughts that I want to address right after this break. We'll be right back.
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Rob West: Thanks for joining us today on Faith & Finance here on American Family Radio. I'm Rob West. Coming up in our next segment, Bob Doll stops by. A lot moving the markets today. We'll get Bob's take on all of it straight ahead.
Before the break, we had a great call from Irma, and she's recently found American Family Radio, appreciates the programming. Irma, we're delighted you're one of our newest listeners. And I hear you that there can be plenty of discouraging things going on in the world. The good news is we have the hope of the gospel, and that's what AFA and AFR are all about. It's proclaiming the gospel, it's building up the church, it's creating cultural change agents to be out there standing for religious freedom and the gospel and biblical values in the marketplace. And we take very seriously that call that has been on this ministry from day one, going all the way back to Brother Don and the work that continues today. And so we're delighted you're here.
You bring up another great point just about compensation to pastors. And I think there's two issues you raised. One is just: how do we think about giving to the work of the church that, in part, is paying for pastors, and how do we view that biblically? And then you brought up this second issue, which is: what about a growing church that results in increasing compensation for the pastor?
I think, you know, Scripture clearly supports paying pastors for their ministry. I would direct you to 1 Timothy 5:17–18. It teaches that the elders who lead and teach are worthy of honor, and adds—and I'll quote from God's Word—"The worker deserves his wages." And 1 Corinthians 9:14, likewise, says that those who preach the gospel may receive their living from the gospel. And Galatians 6:6 also encourages believers to share good things with those who teach them God's Word.
We see, you know, the three women—Chuza, and two others—that in God's Word, Mary and Susanna, I believe, was the third, that supported Jesus and the disciples. Out of their means, they supported ministry, we read in the Gospel of Luke. And so, clearly that's affirmed in Scripture.
And we recognize that full-time pastoral ministry involves much more than preaching. You know, pastors counsel members, and oversee church administration, and visit the sick, and conduct weddings and funerals, and care for the congregation's spiritual needs. And it requires significant time and responsibility. And receiving financial support, you know, clearly is not wrong, but in fact, supported.
Some pastors are bivocational in a very small church, but I think, certainly, Scripture doesn't require every pastor to support himself through another job. And supporting our pastors fully, I think, allows them to devote time and energy to serving the church. And I think they should be paid appropriately. You know, Scripture supports fair pastoral compensation. Doesn't teach that a pastor's pay should automatically rise when the church attendance increases, but I think a larger church often brings greater responsibility, including supervising staff, and a more complex ministry and budget, and carrying increased pastoral demands. And I think, clearly, those factor in and reasonably justify a higher compensation.
You know, I lead a ministry and sit on a board—chair a board of another—and, you know, we, not only before the IRS have a responsibility, but also to the donors to pay appropriate levels of compensation. And the way we determine appropriate is based on what you call salary surveys, where you'll go out and compare the salaries of other similar organizations in terms of ministry purpose, the size of the budget, you know, things like that and other factors. And you base the salary based on what is reasonable, based on a comparative analysis.
And that, you know, those salaries do rise as the ministry size rises because, again, of the leadership skills and the complexity involved. And therefore, you know, you pay more. And that's just, you know, how we operate as non-profits.
You know, so I think a healthy church clearly should provide enough for the pastor and his family to live without financial strain, account for inflation, local living costs—which is a factor—and recognize added responsibilities. But it needs to be set by independent, spiritually mature leaders using transparent standards and comparable salaries and regular review.
So, hopefully, that at least gives you at least my perspective on how I review Scripture on this matter, and then also how we think about it in terms of compensation that increases as the church grows in size. But thank you so much for being an AFR listener, and if we can serve you in any way in the future, please don't hesitate to reach out.
Rob West: Let's go to Mississippi. Kim, go ahead.
Kim: Hi, Rob. This is Kim. I talked to you a couple weeks ago, and I appreciate you taking my call. Sorry to bother you again, but my husband and I did get an appointment with Harry Pearson in Birmingham, and that's on 13 August. Anyway, thank you so very much. His assistant, Kimbo, was wonderful. We appreciate you.
But we do have a quick question. We have a CD in a credit union—my husband's retired military—and we wondered, it matures on the first of August. Do you have any recommendations what we should do with that since we're not meeting with Harry until afterwards?
Rob West: Yeah, it's a great question. I'm delighted you're connecting with a CKA there in Birmingham. And I know Harry personally. He's an incredible man of God, and you're in for a treat. Sounds like he is as well. You and your husband sound like just incredible Christ-followers, and so I'm delighted that you're going to be working together.
You know, the key is you want to let the bank know that you don't want it to roll over, because what you don't want it to do is to get locked into another CD. And so, just given that we're talking a couple of weeks, really what you're going to want to look for is for it to slide over into either a money market or a high-yield savings where you're going to earn some interest, but you've got the liquidity, which means that when you're ready, and you and the advisor build an investment strategy that you and your husband are comfortable with, that it can be then transferred into that new account—probably a joint account in you and your husband's name, unless this is an IRA, I can't remember. But you want it liquid so you don't have to break that CD.
Remind me what that institution is that has the CD. Is it a bank or credit union?
Kim: It is. It's a military—whatever, Army Federal Credit Union. Yes, mm-hmm.
Rob West: Yes, very good. So, I would just call them and find out, "What is your—I need this not to roll over into another CD. I want it to be liquid, but I need your most competitive rate." And ask them what type of account. And you want, you know, it guaranteed—FDIC insurance or NCUA.
And they'll tell you, "Yeah, we want to move it to our high-yield savings, and it'll pay 3%," or whatever it is. And that'd be a great place for it to sit for a couple of weeks.
Kim: Okay, awesome. Well, thank you. God bless you, Rob, and thank you so much for all you've done for us. We're excited about meeting and what the Lord has in store for us, too, as far as giving. So, we appreciate you.
Rob West: I am as well. Lord bless you, Kim. You sound like just a wonderful lady, and if I can help you in any way in the future, please don't hesitate to call. God bless you.
Let's go out to Texas. Eddie, how can I help you?
Eddie: Sir, thank you for taking my call. My question is like on mutual funds offered by insurance companies. Is that a fixed rate kind of like a—if it's 5% on 100,000, just for example, each year they're going to pay you $5,000, or is that a compounding-like interest rate that grows the more you get it in there?
Rob West: Yeah, great question there, Eddie. You know, the key distinction between a mutual fund and an insurance product is a mutual fund doesn't offer a fixed rate of return. It rises and falls with the investments they own. With a fixed annuity, though, on the other hand, that does leave the interest in the account, or if you do, it will compound over time, and it is guaranteed, but certainly different than a mutual fund.
Stay on the line. I'll explain that a little bit more, and we'll be right back after this break. Stay with us.
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Rob West: Great to have you with us today on Faith & Finance here on American Family Radio. I'm Rob West. We may have room for one more phone call if you've got a question today. Call 800-525-7000. But in the meantime, Bob Doll is here, and good thing! Lots of red on my screen, I'm sure there's even more on yours, Bob. And I guess, you know, we've got a Fed decision coming, but beyond that, you know, the on-again, off-again war, we're on again, I guess, with President Trump saying prepare for Iran to be hit hard. Oil's reacting. How do you process everything going on today?
Bob Doll: Well, with great difficulty. The war is the most difficult because one day it's on, two days later it's off, and we don't know a direction. Stocks do respond to oil prices because the price of oil has a lot to do with economic growth, the ability of people to spend money, etc., etc. So when it goes up, markets get nervous, especially at these high valuations. So that's the driver today. The uncertainty around the Fed is certainly a secondary issue, but by and large, people are expecting the Fed to not do anything with rates. The interest will be: what do they say, how do they say it, and how concerned do they sound about inflation?
Rob West: Are you expecting Powell to face some strong dissent, Bob?
Bob Doll: Curiously, if they do not raise rates, he'll have some dissenters that want to do it. If they do raise rates, there's probably going to be more of a decision that has fewer people dissenting. But I think they're going to give it some more time. The oil price is certainly a problem for inflation, but there are other signs that the economy needs to be watched carefully. It's still doing okay, but slowing a bit, and with higher oil prices, it could slow a bit more. Remember, when oil went up so much a few months ago, we had the tax relief, the one big beautiful bill, corporations able to expense a lot of their capital expenditures, and that kind of fought against the rising prices. We don't have that in the offing now.
Rob West: Yeah, no problem. Bob, with regard to corporate earnings, obviously those have started to roll in, and yesterday's move in the market was a result of those continuing to be strong, right?
Bob Doll: Yes, they have been quite strong, setting really records in terms of beating expectations. And you and I have talked about week after week how much earnings estimates keep moving up. If I were to give the fly in the ointment on that, it's that the pace of increase in estimates is slowing. And at these valuation levels, we have to pay attention to what we call the second derivative, and that's what's going on. That's probably part of the reason the market's a little concerned.
Rob West: Yeah. Bob, as you look out across the rest of the world, obviously we have really shrugged the news of the day off because we're still sitting at such elevated levels despite such major disruption in the energy markets in particular. But what about the rest of the world? How are they fairing?
Bob Doll: They are more sensitive, most every other country, to the price of oil moving up and down than we in the U.S. are, because we have so much of our own domestic production and our dependence on oil for every unit of our economy, every unit of GDP, is less. So good news, that is, a drop in the price of oil, is more favorable for international economies than the U.S., and vice versa.
Rob West: Yeah. Bob, obviously gasoline is weighing on consumers, and also these mortgage rates, which have been—even though historically, over a longer period of time, we're probably in more of a normal range here in the sixes than we were down in the threes—just based on what we experienced the last 20 years, that's putting pressure on the consumer as well, right?
Bob Doll: Absolutely. Between gasoline prices and higher mortgage rates, those are two concerns everybody has to have that's watching the economy. Thankfully, the unemployment rate is low, people are working, so there's generally money to spend to keep the economy going. But a much higher price of oil is a concern, and the mortgage rates are keeping a lot of people from thinking about buying a home.
Rob West: Bob, you had a note out in your deliberations this week about the relationship between price and market breadth. Share that with us.
Bob Doll: Yeah, it's a very interesting technical point. What we're seeing is that the stock market, really the S&P 500, made its high about two months ago. And since then, it's been just flailing around, going mostly sideways, down about 3% from its high. But inside the market, the average stock has been moving higher. That is to say, when you have market breadth that is positive—more stocks going up than down—while the averages are kind of going nowhere, that's a divergence. It's generally thought of as a positive divergence when the average stock is beating the big stocks.
Rob West: Yeah, interesting. Something to keep an eye on for sure. Obviously a lot of folks listening today, Bob, that are in that retirement season, they may have that typical 60/40 portfolio—60% stocks, 40% bonds. They're just wondering what to think about yields moving forward. What would you share?
Bob Doll: Yeah, they've been drifting higher, as you know, for many of the reasons we've talked about. And my guess is that there's probably more of a drift higher. Not horrible, but I would have been surprised if you told me at the first of the year that we were going to see 4.75% on a 10-year Treasury, and we're getting close to that—4.65% or so as we speak. So I think yields and interest rates will drift higher as long as this oil price and overall inflation concern is with us.
Rob West: Last question, Bob. Where do we sit just in terms of recession possibility? I mean, are we still in a better place today than we were at the start of the year?
Bob Doll: Yeah, we are, with the exception—I hate to keep coming back to it—of the price of oil. But the signs of a recession are few and far between. Sometimes that's when it shows up, and we have to be vigilant at all points. But the probability of a recession, if you look at the probability models, is pretty low, thank the good Lord.
Rob West: Very good. Bob, we appreciate you, my friend. Thanks for being here.
Bob Doll: Thank you.
Rob West: All right. That's Bob Doll. He is CIO and CEO at Crossmark Global Investments, a leader in faith-based investing. Be sure to check out his weekly investment commentary, "Doll's Deliberations." I count on it each week; it really keeps me in touch with the markets, and it can be delivered to your inbox for free when you sign up at crossmarkglobal.com. That's crossmarkglobal.com.
Rob West: In the news today, a 65-year-old retiring in 2026 may spend an average of—listen to this—$185,500 on healthcare throughout retirement. That's according to Fidelity Investments. That estimate is 7.5% higher than last year. That's driven by rising medical costs, increased use of healthcare services, and a rise in chronic conditions. The estimate assumes enrollment in Medicare Parts A, B, and D. However, Medicare doesn't cover every expense. Now, nearly half of projected costs come from deductibles, copays, and coinsurance, while premiums account for another 45%. Yet, Fidelity found that 54% of pre-retirees mistakenly believe Medicare will cover all of their healthcare expenses.
The total also excludes long-term care, which can add substantial costs. A private nursing home room, for example, has a median annual cost of nearly $128,000, and that was as of 2024 data. By the way, Nathan Sanow, really an expert in this area, a Christ-follower, the leader of the organization behind ltccanconsumer.com—probably the most well-known long-term care insurance website—is going to be on in the next couple of weeks. I was just chatting with him yesterday, and he's going to be sharing some of the latest data around the importance of long-term care insurance, some of the new features in the newer policies that are coming out (which are better than ever in terms of understanding how to price these products), but also some of the new features like, rather than having a daily benefit, they have a monthly benefit.
He also shared something with me yesterday that I think was really important, and that is the importance of medical underwriting when it comes to long-term care insurance. Here was his point: you really want an independent agent or service helping you determine which is the best company for you to apply for long-term care insurance based on your unique medical condition. Because if you go to the wrong company that doesn't treat your medical condition as favorably and denies you, it's a much bigger problem than you just being denied by that company. Because on every subsequent application when you apply for long-term care insurance, they're going to ask the question, "Have you ever been denied for long-term care insurance?" And when you have to answer yes, in many cases, that's an automatic denial; they'll just pass over you.
So it really is important—and he made this point very clear to me, and it was not something I had thought of quite this way—that before you go out and shop (which, by the way, he's saying the best time is around 55, although he's seeing people younger than ever trying to secure these policies), before you go out and start applying, make sure you have a read on the best company that has the sweet spot between the strength of the company and their commitment to these products (long-term care), and one that fits with your medical condition so you're going to get the most favorable treatment and avoid that all-important denial.
So hopefully that's helpful to somebody out there today who might be thinking about seeking long-term care insurance, which, keep in mind, because of what I just said about the costs, is probably your biggest risk. If something's going to erode your assets in that season of life, it's most often going to be costs associated with long-term care. And so that's where long-term care insurance, whether it's a straight policy or a hybrid with a return of premium or some life insurance, could be really helpful. Hope that helps!
Hey, folks, thanks for being along with us today. Listen, Faith & Finance is listener-supported, and as we head toward the end of July, this is a really important time for us to hear from you. We're slightly behind for the month on listener support. So whether you make a one-time gift or you become a FaithFi Partner to receive all of our studies, devotionals, our magazine, and quarterly ministry updates, in either case, we would love for you to support our work when you head to faithfi.com/give. That's faithfi.com/give. Check it out today.
Big thanks to my team today: Patty, Taylor, Devin, and everybody here at FaithFi that makes this possible. Come back and join us tomorrow. May God bless you. Bye-bye.
AFR Disclaimer: The views and opinions expressed in this broadcast may not necessarily reflect those of the American Family Association or American Family Radio.
Generosity can begin with a simple gift—but when it becomes a family rhythm, the impact can last for generations. We want our children to experience the joy of giving, but benevolence rarely develops by accident. On this Faith & Finance on AFR, Rob West and Sharon Epps present practical ways to cultivate a spirit of altruism in the family—from the early years through adulthood. Then, it’s on to calls.
(00:00) Rob West and Sharon Epps explain how generosity in a family can leave an impact for generations
(08:30) Rob West comments further on his conversation with Sharon Epps
(09:53) Rob West talks about giving being more than a responsibility
(13:34) Caller Donna: Newly retired with a pension, where should they invest a lump sum
(20:30) Rob West continues his conversation with Donna
(26:22) Caller Irma: Concerns with negative news on AFR and why pastor’s salaries rise when the church size increases
(31:30) Rob West respond’s to Irma’s questions about AFR programming and how a pastor’s compensation should be calculated
(36:28) Caller Kim: Has CD maturing before they can meet with financial advisor. How should they handle this situation
(39:05) Caller Eddie: What are the differences between mutual funds and fixed annuities
(42:10) Rob West talks with Bob Doll about financial markets and upcoming federal reserve actions
(45:15) Bob Doll’s analysis of international financial markets, gasoline prices, mortgage rates and the outlook for corporate earnings
(48:25) Bob Doll states the chances for an upcoming recession have decreased
(49:24) Rob West talks about a report from Fidelity on costs in retirement and long-term insurance
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