: Welcome to Real Truth for Today with Pastor Jeff Schrieve, Senior Pastor of First Baptist Church in Texarkana, Texas. Now, here's Pastor Jeff.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Well, good Tuesday morning and welcome to Real Truth for today. Pastor Jeff Schrieve here. Hope you're having a great morning. I want to read to you from Nehemiah chapter four. You know, Nehemiah is the book about rebuilding the wall. As Nehemiah was led by God to leave where he was in Susa to come to Jerusalem to rebuild this wall that had been down for so very long. And so they're rebuild building the wall. And the enemies around Jerusalem didn't want the wall rebuilt because they didn't want a strong Jerusalem. And it says in Nehemiah chapter 4. Now, when Sanballat Tobiah, the Arabs, the Ammonites and the Ashdodites heard that the repair of the walls of Jerusalem went on and that the breaches began to be closed, they were very angry. All of them conspired together to come and fight against Jerusalem and to cause a disturbance in it. But we prayed to our God and because of them, we set up a guard against them day and night. Thus in Judah it was said, the strength of the burden bearers is failing. Yet there is much rubbish, and we ourselves are unable to rebuild the wall. Our enemies said, they will not know or see until we come among them, kill them, and put a stop to the work. When the Jews who lived near them came and told us 10 times, they will come up against you from every place where you may turn, Nehemiah said, then I stationed men in the lowest parts of the space behind the wall. The exposed Places and I stationed the people and families with, with their swords, spears and bows. He had a security team. We want to talk about security today in the church and we want to talk about free speech in the church and we want to talk about public apologies and all these things that are very, very important going on in our culture today. And to help me with these important subjects is my friend, Dr. Phil Cook. Dr. Phil Cook is an author, speaker, media producer, consultant and strategic advisor. He, ah, president and the founder of Cook Media Group. He can be reached at phil cook.com and Dr. Phil, welcome to the program once again.
Phil Cook: Hey, I'm always thrilled to be on the show. This is, we always have a good time. This is fun.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: We do. What I like about you, Phil, is that we can talk about a lot of different things. And so we'll kick it off with church security. So way back in the book of Nehemiah, they were having to have security around the work of the Lord because people threaten to destroy it. So let's talk about security in the church. We have AI now and you can have security cameras that link up with AI for facial recognition and things like that. Sounds like a good thing, but not everybody's for it. What's the controversy there?
Phil Cook: Well, it's interesting. As you know, I've worked with hundreds and hundreds of churches across the country and I've seen the, you know, the extreme of pastors that, and they, we can disagree. You know, good, good people can disagree on this. But we have one on one end, pastors that don't believe we should have any security at all. That kind of denies God's power to protect his people. So we don't need security at the church. On the other hand, I've seen churches that are, you know, that have like a SWAT team of guys stationed around the church. In fact, I went to a church on the east coast that when you walk up to the church and they were rightly concerned about their kids safety. But when you walk up to the church, there were two police cars on either side of the front door of the church. You walk in, there's four armed officers in the lobby. Then there's a tall desk there with two, guys in suits and badges in front of a wall of monitors right in the lobby. I mean it's, it's, it's not like going to church. It's like going through the TSA when you go visit that church. And they had gotten so used to it, they didn't even think about it. So the Truth is, you can have a security team, you can be very protective, but it could be invisible. Nobody, you know, nobody needs to know. I know, I know churches where the parking guys are packing heat. I mean, they're carrying weapons, but you'd never in a nears know it. They've been trained. And so it's just interesting that, there are a lot of different viewpoints on this thing. But I think security, you know, Christianity was born in hostility. I mean, we've always had an enemy. And I think that people are coming against us. We're seeing more and more stories of churches that are being attacked, worshipers being attacked. And so I just think we need to have a, have a really good look. Now. A lot of it is not just having cameras and things, but also explaining it to the congregation. I think that's a big mistake a lot of people make. They bring in a team, a security team, or they have cameras, and they don't really talk to the congregation about it. So, you know, I'm the communication guy. I think we need to really have that conversation with our, our congregation, our donors, the people involved in our event so that they clearly know what's going on. And nobody's shocked later that we've got flock cameras in the parking lot, you know, photographing all of our license plates. So I do think that's an important issue.
: Yeah.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: You know, for us at First Baptist Texarkana, we have mostly uniformed, officers. We have some plainclothesmen, but they're all professional, law enforcement people. And we have six or seven guys. And I think, like you said, you don't want to have a whole row of them right there when you walk in. That's a little off putting, but I think it does give a, sense of confidence to the participant. When they see, okay, they have police presence here, it's kind of like going to the movie theater and you see there's a police officer there. You just know that, hey, if something goes haywire, the police are here.
Phil Cook: Well, in a number in these days, you know, with this pro Palestine movement that's going on, any church that supports Israel is going to start getting some threats. They're going to start, you know, drawing attention. So we live in a particularly hostile moment. I know a number of pastors around the country have had, who have been threatened. And so they've had a, someone sit near them, you know, in the congregation before they go up and preach. And you just have to be responsible, be careful. We, just live in a very fallen culture today, and there's a lot of bad people out there running around, and I think we need to protect the people that we put in charge of.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Well, my, worship pastor, Quinn Stanfield, he says, you know, Jeff, if somebody came into our church to cause trouble, they'd probably want to shoot you. And, I was saying, well, I was hoping they'd want to shoot. Shoot you. Quinn, you're up before I am. But I'm reminded of the incident that happened with Jon MacArthur some years ago. You might remember this, Phil, where he did the strange fire conference, and it really fired a lot of people up in the charismatic camp, and he had someone come on the platform and rebuke him. And, Jon, he didn't seem flustered about it, but he was like, hey, where are the security guys? What are you on the team for? How did this guy just all of a sudden walk up here? I think that is a, that is a concern for a lot of pastors. They don't want people just to be able to come up and maybe do harm.
Phil Cook: You know, I was at a church near Chicago recently where they had two guy security guys on stools on either side of the stage facing the congregation while the pastor preached.
Caroline: And.
Phil Cook: And I. And I thought, you know, that's. That's a little bit over the top for me. I'm. I'm kind of uncomfortable with that. But there's no reason a couple security guys couldn't be on the front row on either side of the stage just being paying attention and seeing what goes on. Jon was right. What. You know, however, I've had my disagreements with Jon, but, you know, to let guys just get up on stage, we need main. We need to maintain control of that service. I think pastors have a real godly responsibility to protect people, and we need to protect our pastors as well. Now, I will say this. In my church in Tennessee and probably your church in Texas, if an intruder came in, there'd probably be 50 or 100 people in the congregation that would shoot him first. I don't know. you know, but this. It's different in a blue state versus a red state, probably, but security matters. People need to just be aware that. That we're concerned about those things. And, And I don't think, you know, we could disagree on the levels of security, but I would like to see more churches take it seriously, put it that way.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Well, I know that, Lake Point, Josh Howerton's church in Rockwall, they were on social media and getting dinged for the fact that they're using AI with their security, which, seems to me to be a wise thing, not a bad thing. But it's hard to know where the line is between crossing the line of privacy and that kind of thing. where do you fall on that, Phil?
Phil Cook: Well, it is. And I don't have a problem with what Josh and the church did. The leadership team there, I like that church a lot, but I think that it's more of a matter of getting out in front of it. And this is a good word for pastors all over the country on a lot of issues. It's always better to let the congregation know before you do something, particularly something potentially intrusive, like, you know, putting in a multitude of cameras, as Lake Point is doing. And so I agree with you 100% that the cameras themselves even linked to AI is not an issue for me. But I do want to let the congregation know. I don't want them to suddenly be shocked that they're being tracked. And, you know, the cameras are out there. it's just a matter of are we communicating with the congregation? Are we being clear with what we're doing? I just don't like surprises. Now, granted, some people are going to be upset no matter what, and we're never going to be able to control that. I get that. But as much as possible, I just encourage pastors and church leaders to get out in front of whatever issue that happens to be. It's that it's that way with, you know, issues in the church like sexual abuse or embezzlement or crimes of other types. There's churches where people have stolen money. And, I talked to a pastor just the other day about that, and that was going on in his church. And it's. And, you know, he what he asked me, should I tell the congregation about this? Well, absolutely. I think that they're going to get really upset if you don't. I know of churches that have actually had youth leaders that were arrested for sexual abuse with minors in the church. And they didn't tell anybody. They didn't tell the congregation. So when parents find out, they're naturally outraged. And, that church is going to go into a meltdown. So I just believe that getting out in front of it, being honest, being clear, letting people know what's going on, I think that's really, really important.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Phil, how do you view, with television ministries and just things with social media. We posted, just, I don't know, some months back that, hey, we have cameras in the worship center. And we might shoot you. not shoot you. We might film you worshiping the Lord or being a part of that service. And, it wasn't so much for their appointment approval or they're not signing off on anything, but just to let them know that this takes place. Now, I would think as a Christian, if somebody shows me with my eyes closed worshiping the Lord, I wouldn't be embarrassed about that. We're not trying to show somebody that's scratching their nose or something like that. But how do you view that in terms of letting people know?
Phil Cook: Well, from a legal point of view, every state may be a little bit different, I'm not sure. But I do advocate for putting up a sign in the lobby that just says, you're probably presence here, allows us to film you. that's, that's the legal protection aspect of it. I think also again, from a communication perspective, it never hurts being, you know, in the pulpit every once in a while to remind the congregation that, hey, we're filming a television program. Jon Osteen, years and years ago at Lakewood Church. Joel Osteen's dad, who I thought was a. A brilliant pastor. Jon. Jon was just something else, but he liked to remind the congregation that, look, we're producing a national television program. People are getting saved. People are being delivered from stuff. And that congregation was so supportive of that. They would, they would allow them to drive down the middle row with an army tank with a, camera on it. I mean, they were just so, And Jon would actually read letters from people whose lives have been transformed. People have been saved through the television ministry. And the people got super excited about it. So it would be a good thing to remind people that, look, we're taking your photos for social media. We're videotaping for our television Ministry or our YouTube channel, our live stream, whatever, and make it a positive. You know, the church wants to know that their church is making an impact out there and reaching people. So I think that it never hurts, but I think the sign is the very minimum. I think we should at least have some kind of a sign that lets people know. Or if you, if you still print a bulletin, put it in there just to let people know they're being filmed. And. And, you know, the other thing is, as a pastor, I would probably make that kind of announcement, but also saying if you're uncomfortable being filmed, just, you know, move a few rows back. You know, we're gonna primarily film the front rows, you know, first ten Rows. And, maybe if you're uncomfortable, that's okay. Just sit over on the side or sit in the back. but if you're gonna be down front, just know that chances are you might get seen from time to time.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yeah, I did have somebody. This is early on when we started the television ministry. He got upset with me because he said, I didn't know I was gonna be on tv. And I said, well, I just kind of nicely said, well, I'm sorry about that, but we showed you praying. do you not want people to know that you pray? I didn't really understand why he was mad about that. And he didn't have a good comeback. I didn't try and be dismissive or trying to shame him or anything. But, you know, I think we, as Christians, we shouldn't be ashamed to be in the church and worshiping the Lord. And if you want to show me doing that, great.
Phil Cook: You know, I went through that phase on airplanes, you know, being nervous about pulling out my Bible and reading on an airplane or maybe reading a. A Christian book. And I finally realized, you know what? This is a great testimony. If somebody wants to ask me about it, great, let them ask me about it.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Right?
Phil Cook: There's so many ways we could share the gospel and just in our daily, everyday life and just mention, you know, hey, I was at church the other day and I learned this. And. And, so, yeah, I think it's. And by the way, let me just say before we close that topic, that in most. I think it's. Again, I'm not an attorney, but I think in most states now, just the presence of a video camera means that. That if you get taped, there's nothing you can. You can't complain about it. just the presence of a camera indicates that, hey, you're going to be taped. And if you don't like that, you can leave or sit somebody else.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: So we'll be back with more. Phil Cooke.
: Candace talks about finding out she was pregnant. Thankfully, an ultrasound provided by preborn allowed her to hear her baby's heartbeat.
Jeff Chamblee: The sonogram sealed the deal for me. My baby was like this tiny little spectrum of hope, and I saw his heart beating on the screen and knowing that there's life growing inside. I mean, that sonogram changed my life. I went from just Candace to movie mom. Thank you to everybody that has given these gifts. You guys are giving more than money. You guys are giving love.
: Preborn currently has clinics that do not have ultrasound machines. Would you consider a leadership Gift and sponsor a machine. Today, these life Saving machines cost $15,000 more than most centers can afford. Your donation will save countless lives for years to come. Dial £250 and say the key word baby or go to preborn.com afr this is real truth for today. Podcasts of the program are available on the podcast [email protected] now back to Pastor Jeff Schrieve.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Welcome back to the program. Pastor Jeff here talking to my friend Dr. Phil Cook, author, speaker, media producer, consultant and strategic advisor. He's the president of Cook Media Group and, his business has been around since 1991. Is that right, Phil?
Phil Cook: That's exactly right. We're in our 35th year. That's pretty remarkable.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: It really is. Well, you do great work. Okay, so from church security, now I want to talk about the news that is going around about President Trump saying he's not going to let the fake news media, cnn, MSNBC and the others into the White House anymore because all they do is write fake news stories. It's 92, 94% negative on President Trump. I mean, it's obviously not objective. And this was J.D. vance, as he was asked that question, this is his response.
Jeff Chamblee: Do you think it's appropriate for the President to be banning media outlets just
Phil Cook: because he doesn't like what they report?
JD Vance: Well, I take some issue with the premise. So he's not banning media outlets. What he's doing is saying, we're not going to give you stuff, special access to the White House if you engage in what is effectively propaganda. We have to remember those three outlets account about 92% of the stories that they have on the President of the United States, on the administration, are negative. That's not representative of the American people. It's not representative of public opinion. So if you're going to engage in what is effectively far left propaganda, why would a Republican White House give you special access?
Phil Cook: Sir, you talked a lot about free speech over the years.
Jeff Chamblee: How is this not an attack on free speech?
JD Vance: Well, they can still report on the Trump White House. They can still get the public reports. They can still, of course, talk to people in the administration and outside the administration. What the President has said is, we're not going to give you special access inside the White House. The way that I think about it is if you go back to the Biden administration or the Obama administration, compare, let's say, Politico to Breitbart. If you actually look at the objective analysis, Politico and Breitbart are Politico is as anti Trump as Trump. Breitbart was anti Obama or anti Biden. Now, why on God's green earth would Donald Trump be expected to give Politico special access when nobody in the media expected the Biden administration or the Obama administration to give Breitbart special access? It's about basic fairness.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: All right? It's about basic fairness. Do you agree with his decision to ban those guys from the White House?
Phil Cook: Absolutely. I think JD said it very, very well. The fact is, we forget that both Obama and Biden, they, they would not allow certain media outlets, conservative media outlets, to have that kind of special access to them. And it's funny that the liberals never said anything about that. I don't remember any great outcry about conservatives not being allowed access to the White House. So it's being very disingenuous right now and extraordinarily hypocritical and, because he's right. statistically, when you look at the number of stories that these outlets report, they're staggeringly negative and, and just, out of proportion to the, you know, out of portion of what the public feels, out of proportion to polls, polling out there. So it's just really kind of gotten ridiculous just how far left they are. And JD's right. It's, it's propaganda at some point. So I don't have a, I don't have any issue at all. But in, by the way, the President of the United States has in his power to invite whoever he wants into the White House for press briefings, for press conferences, those kind of events. So there's nothing absolutely right. And it's not about freedom of speech. They can still print whatever they want, which they'll still be, they'll even go more negative probably, but, I don't see anything wrong with it at all.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Okay, Phil, how do you see. Because Fox News is always pitted as the, you know, pro Trump news organization, and they're, they're going to write stories that are favorable to Trump. Do you see, do you see Fox News as just being like, hometown announcers for the team and they're never going to say anything negative?
Phil Cook: I, you know, it's funny, I've looked at a lot of different charts out there about, you know, media bias. And, and Fox obviously is, leans more conservative than they do liberal, but particularly in the last year, they've done a lot of, they've done plenty of negative stories on, on President Trump and conservative issues. So I don't think they're anywhere nearly as biased as the NewSong York Times would be, as CNN would be, as some of these other outlets are, I think if you look at objective charts of media bias, the liberal outlets are way, way off. Off the kind of. What do you call it, the medium. the media median that. We'll figure it out later. They're way off the center point. And, so some of the conservative outlets, like Fox, are obviously more conservative, but they're not extreme. So, I think that, yeah, it's. What Trump has done is perfectly normal. Certainly Biden did it, Obama did it. Nobody, Nobody had a major outcry then, so they're being a little hypocritical now.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Well, we were talking a little bit off air, Phil, that President Trump, with all his faults, with his massive, gigantic ego. Yeah, he has the ability. I've said this numerous times. He's a Timex watch. He takes a licking, keeps on ticking. He doesn't let that stop him. Keeps doing what he thinks is best for the American people. You can disagree with it if you want, but I think he's. He's operating out of a, out of a desire to do what's best for the people. He wants to see America be great. And when America's great, that helps everybody. A rising tide raises all boats. I mean, it's hard to deny that, yet at the same time, he can be his own worst enemy. And so I want to. I want to play you a little clip from Pat Boone, personal friend. And, this is what Pat kind of gave an open letter on, I think it was on Facebook to President Trump. This is what Pat had to say.
Pat Boone: Hello, Mr. President, Pat Boone here. Been a while since I spoke to you or about you, but really, I feel like I am your friend. I voted for you back when you were running for president and you were calling people's names and the debates. I cautioned you that you should not be doing something that makes you sound like a schoolboy on the playground. But if you want to be president, you should sound like a president and be presidential. Well, you did not take my m. Advice much at the time, but you've done a lot of things in the meanwhile. However, right now I feel like you're very tired, and I'm worried that many of us haven't prayed enough for you, because I think you're wearing out and you're feeling the pressure and expressing yourself in ways that are not becoming to you. They're not presidential. So may I recommend something very highly that you be quiet.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: All right, Phil, do you agree with Pat Boone?
Phil Cook: Pat. Pat is an elder statesman in my book. I think he's brilliant. I've known him for many, many years, and I think he's exactly right. You know, I'm like, we've talked about issues before. I'm the communications guy, and I'm always thinking about how we can communicate our point more effectively. And I think very often, Now, here's the thing. Trump has been hounded. He's been so criticized. I mean, in. In between his presidencies. When Biden was president, he was hounded legally, he was hounded in the courts, he was hounded in the press. he's just been attacked more than any other, certainly more than any president in my lifetime by far. And so just the beating he takes on a daily basis, I have to feel great sympathy for that. I mean, anybody. I think anybody would. and Trump derangement syndrome is real. We were talking in the break, the fact that there are people out there that just hate his guts, but they can't tell you why. I see man on the street interviews all the time with people that just. Just rip him to shreds. And then the interviewer says, well, why exactly? Give me a. Give me a thing you don't like about President Trump. And, they can't think of anything. So Trump derangement syndrome is real. So he's. I understand the pressure he's under besides just being president, but I think Pat's right. Pat's right. Very often, he. Trump will just lash out in anger. That doesn't make you look presidential. It doesn't make people have confidence in you. And I think it just feeds the left and the.
Pat Boone: The.
Phil Cook: The news media that's out to get you. So I would love that to be the case. I think I. I think, Pat is absolutely spot on, in his analysis.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Phil, how do you think, Ronald Reagan would have handled attacks that are that vicious?
Phil Cook: You know, Ronald Reagan was a brilliant orator. he was an professional actor, first of all. He was a radio announcer before that, and then he was a spokesperson for numerous commercial companies. he did television commercials and. And TV appearances where he was a spokesperson. He was brilliant on his feet, and he was a very creative guy. And, you know, we go back now and play some of the witty things that he said in response to other politicians, in response to the news media. And so I just think that, he was much more eloquent than, you know, Donald Trump's a businessman, and, he. He did not have, you know, he was on the Apprentice, but that's not really much of a television program. but I think Reagan was a much better orator. He was a much better speaker. He was a much more creative thinker. And so I think his, his responses were much more eloquent and, you know, you know, great responses. Just take the wind out of the sails of the other side. You know, when you can come back and just say something really witty, that really makes a big difference. So in, you know, in contrast, President Trump very often just lashes out, and I don't think that helps his cause at all.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: How do you think, Ron DeSantis does when people come after him because he can be pretty?
Phil Cook: Oh, I like him a lot. He says some great stuff and he, he's a little more pointed than Reagan was. he gets right to the cuts, right to the heart of the matter. And we'll, we'll. But he's not afraid to go head to head with people, I think. I think, Margot, Marco Rubio is in a similar way. He's not afraid to take on the president press. I've seen him in these hearings where he's just really upfront about this. He's not cowering, he's not hiding, he's just going right after him. And so I like this, this up and coming team we have of DeSantis, J.D. vance, Marco Rubio. There's a whole group of leaders in the conservative movement now that are not afraid to go head to head with anybody. And that, that's a great thing. And they're, they're much more, you know, they're m. Much more thoughtful in their response than President Trump often is. And so I'm looking forward to the future.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Well, name calling doesn't get you anywhere. you know, it does as, as Pat Boone said, it makes you look like you're, you know, a 10th grader or something like that, or even a seventh grader. And I hate to say that because I like President Trump. I appreciate what he does. I do think he's got a moral compass where, Phil, you and I'd probably share the same opinion. The other side has lost a moral compass. They call good evil and evil good. You can't vote for that.
Phil Cook: When you look at the things that the left is sided with today, from abortion to the, you know, anti, anti Semitism to so many other things, I mean, and it's abortion right up to the moment of birth. It's, it's just extreme issues that we would have never considered 20 years ago. that's all on the left. And so it's hard to see that. It's hard not to see that they've lost their moral compass completely.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yes. Okay, let me shift gears into something that's, kind of near and dear to my heart as a University of Texas Longhorns fan. just last week or the week before game, before Texas beat Ohio State in a big showdown in Austin, and they came back from 20 points down and won 20, 4 to 23. And it was in the press, you know, Sarkeesian was supposed to have an interview right after game with Holly Rowe, and something got delayed and so he kind of cut her short. And people were talking about, ah, that was so rude. And. And then there were the AI memes and the AI meme with, Sarkeesian back slapping Holly Rowe. And then Arch Manning, college kid. he said, I thought that was funny. Well, I'm 64 years old. I thought it was funny, too. It wasn't real. It was like watching a movie. I mentioned this. You know, I saw Happy Gilmore, and when the air conditioning unit fell on the mista Mr. Lady, I thought that was funny. It didn't really happen. it might have been a different story if that was a real, you know, real video footage, but it wasn't. So, Arch felt the need to apologize. To apologize to Holly Rowe. If you had been his consultant, would you have told him to do that or not do that?
Phil Cook: Well, there's a number of things going on over here. First of all, I got my master's degree at University of Oklahoma, so I always like it in Texas. Controversy. I'm all for that, 100%. first of all, it's a dumb video. We're going to see more and more of these as the AI world blows up as it is. It's a dumb video, and we're going to see those kind of things much more often. But as you say, he's our college kid. Give the guy a break. He's a college guy and those things happen. You know, it's regrettable in many ways because, you know, you don't like, scenes of violence against women, whether it's funny or staged or whatever. However, keep in mind that the media is fueled by outrage, and so particularly the left media is going to be looking for things like that to make a much bigger deal out of it than it really is. And I, think that, very often when you do apologize for things like that you're playing right into their hand, you're affirming them. And, but that doesn't get rid of the fact that it was a dumb video. And I don't even know why they were talking about it in a press conference after, you know, after a game. But, it's, it's, it was really stupid all around. And I, I'm, I would have probably, I would have probably said go ahead and apologize for it because it was, it is just dumb all the way around. I just, this is more of a dumb issue than a legitimate issue. And, and you're feeding into the left. So I don't, It's a, it's a kind of a circle of stupidity. but I think as Christians, we're going to see this more and more and more. We're going to see extreme videos like that, doing really stupid things that are funny, that are silly. But we also have to keep in mind that whether you're a pastor or a college quarterback, you're in the public eye and there are people on both sides of the issue that are watching and looking at this. And we just have to be sensitive about, about how we respond to those kind of things.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Well, it is kind of a fine line sometimes to know when, when you apologize, when you have a public apology and when you say, well, no, I'm not apologizing for that. I didn't do anything wrong.
Phil Cook: Yes, I agree, I agree. And I have to say that very, very often right before I post something on social media, I think, wait a second. Do I want, you know, I think this is funny privately. Do I want to post this publicly as a funny thing? And very, you know, I have that whole folder of social media memes that my wife won't, let me post. And, so it's, it, we have to really be conscious and think about that. But you're right. There are times when, you know, we've gotten to this apology driven culture where we're always feeling, you know, it's so woke that we're offending somebody. And I just, I really like that's. Again, we go back to J.D. vance or Marco Rubio. Excuse me. Or Ron DeSantis, who. They're not afraid to stand up and speak the truth and say something and not apologize for it. So I think very often we have to be bold in what we believe. No question about it.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yeah, well, it is, it is one of those things that if I hurt somebody's feelings, I had a lady get upset with me because, I made a comment, it was a joke, but I said that my middle daughter, if, if we were talking about if something happened to mom and I remarried, she said, dad, you just need to know, if something happened to mom and you remarried, I already hate her. And it was just a joke, you know. And, I said that. And some, some lady told me, she said, well, that really offended me because I'm experiencing that with my step kids. And I said, well, I'm in it, tongue in cheek.
Phil Cook: So anyway, yeah, well, by the way, I'm. I'm a pastor's kid, so, I would love to speak with your daughter because I know she's got. Going through a lot right now. The children become the brunt of jokes from the pulpit, their whole youth. So it's tough.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yes. Well, we're up against a break. When we come back, we'll take your calls. 888-589-8840. That's 888589 8840. Phil will be with us, so give us a call and let's talk.
: If you'd like to contact Pastor Jeff, email pastor jeffromhishheart.org now back to Real Truth for today with Pastor Jeff Schrieve.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Welcome back to the program. Pastor Jeff here talking to my friend Dr. Phil Cook, author, speaker, media producer, consultant and strategic advisor, president and founder of Cook media Group since 1991. Phil, you've been all over, really all around the world, filming and helping people in ministry and, doing commercials and documentaries, all sorts of things. What, what has been your favorite thing to do?
Phil Cook: You know what? I have the best job ever. We've been able to film in nearly 80 countries around the world. And to be able to engage with that many churches, ministries, and of course, ministries that are doing remarkable work. We were just in India a few weeks ago filming a documentary for a ministry there, Good Shepherd India, that's involved in, ah, they have more than 100 medical clinics. they have a network of churches. They've launched, almost 100 schools. And filming that story about the work that they're doing is really remarkable. So we get to do some just amazing things. And, and I find that most churches and ministry organizations don't tell their story well. They're doing remarkable things. And so we come along and help them tell their story. We've done just hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of videos and helped them with their social media and so many other things that it's a real joy. I just think I have the best Job in the world.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Amen. You do well with it. Well, we're going to the phone lines. 888-589-8840. That's 885-89840. And we have our friend Charlotte on the line from Texas. We prayed for Charlotte as she was having a procedure done just last week. Charlotte, welcome to the program.
Caroline: Well, thank you so much. I tell you, I thank God every time I turn my radio on to listen to your program, I have two things to say. I am in such total agreement. You. You all said today. And I wanted to let you know that last week when I called that prayer request, I didn't expect you to mention it on the radio, but I was laying there absolutely freaking out about to have a procedure that I believe killed my mother. And so I was very upset. And I remembered that I looked at the clock and it was 8 o'. Clock. I turned the radio on, and I want you to know how much the scripture verses that you read blessed my heart and palmed my soul. And I was able to go into that with absolute faith that the Lord was in control and it was going to be okay. And it was. It really was. So I just praise the lord every time 8:00 clock gets here. I do.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yeah. Oh, you're so sweet. Well, thank you, Charlotte. I'm glad you got a good report, and I'm glad you're, you're up and running on all eight cylinders.
Caroline: Yes, thank you. Thank you so much.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: You're welcome. God bless you. Well, we have Roy on the line from Mississippi. Roy, welcome to Real Truth for today.
Caroline: Hey, Pastor Jeff, I love your show, man. I appreciate everything you do. I have two comments. My first one is on Trump. I can tell you what fuels Trump's arrangement soon. There's two reasons. One, he's not politically correct, and two, he's not afraid to speak his mind. And I say he does that vicariously sometimes, for sure. But he exposes how they really are. And it's the same reason. And I'm not comparing Trump to Christ, because there's only one Christ. There's only one king. That's Jesus. But the reason that the left don't like the gospel is because it doesn't offend them. It convicts them and exposes them for who they really are and how they're really living. And that's the comment I got on it. Thank you, sir.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yeah, thanks, Roy.
Phil Cook: That's good.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Would you agree, Phil?
Phil Cook: Absolutely agree, Roy. Brilliantly said. And let me go back to Charlotte. For a second. Her testimony is a great story about the power of media. You know, if she had not been listening to radio that morning, she would have not heard your message, heard those scriptures, been encouraged, and gone into that surgery with confidence. I just think that, it's a great, great story about why media matters. It reaches people in unexpected ways and unexpected places. And I. I hear stories like that almost every day of people whose lives have been changed simply because of a social media post or a website or a video or a TV program or a radio program. It's just quite remarkable. So good for her. Way to go, Charlotte.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Phil, as far as media goes, you've been in a long time. Things have changed so much. It used to be okay. When we first started from His Heart ministries in late 2004, you wanted to be on television, radio. They were saying, oh, it's kind of on the way out, which was not true. But now, you know, like, getting on Trinity Broadcasting Network gave you a huge audience. Now it's not like that because everything is so fractured. Do you see that as a good thing or as a bad thing?
Phil Cook: it's a different thing, that's for sure. I think we have to just face reality, understand it has changed. That doesn't mean television or radio is. Is irrelevant. We just have to be more strategic in how we use it. You know, back in the days when Billy Graham, Oral Roberts, Rex Humbard, those guys were on television, they were reaching hundreds of millions of people. It was amazing the size of their audience. I've been back and tracked it, and it's just staggering today because we have so many literally unlimited channels. it's very hard to reach a mass audience quite like that. So we just have to be more careful. One of the things we're doing, for instance, is using churches, having churches on television locally to do a program to reach people that would never darken the door of their church and hopefully drive them to come and check out the church. And we're seeing churches that are just growing like crazy because they have a local broadcast of their service. People get to see it who are at home maybe getting ready for the football game or something else on Sundays. They see it and think, wow, I like what that guy says. I'm going to go hear him. And they go visit the church. And so if you're strategic about how you use television, it can still be quite effective. So. And radio is the same way, you know, but we have to understand it's definitely changed, and it's not going back to the way it was.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Well, it's. It's a lot harder. I've said this before, Phil, from a preaching standpoint, you know, back in the day, you and I aren't too far away from the same age. And, back in the day, everybody watched the same things. You. Yes, you could make a reference to Gilligan's Island. Everyone knew who the skipper was. And, you can't do that anymore.
Phil Cook: I mean, yeah, it's absolutely true. We called it America's Campfire. Television was America's Campfire. It was like we all sat around it and watched the same thing. And you're exactly right. It created a certain unity in the country that I, That I do miss. I have to say, I really do miss those kind of social, cultural references that we used to have. yeah, everybody knew Gilligan, you know, and everybody knew who Hogan was. You know, Hogan's Heroes. And, nowadays it's just not like that. It's maybe getting that way with a newer generation with certain YouTube figures, influencers on YouTube. But even that changes much more than the old television programs did. So it is a different world.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: I don't know if I told you this, but, some years ago, I got, I got an email from Graham Care Net. Do you know who he is?
Phil Cook: No, I don't.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: He's the Galloping Gourmet.
Phil Cook: Oh, K E R R that one. Yes, I know who it is. Yeah, absolutely. That's funny.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: So I got an email from him. I thought it was, you know, this can't be the guy. And so I communicated with him. It was the guy. And so we FaceTime several times. You know, he's. He's close to 90 years old now. I had him on the radio just a couple of years ago. Very interesting guy. He, he told me, Phil, when he was doing the Galloping gourmet. This is early 70s, probably. He said he had an audience of about 200 million people. I mean, that would, that would be unheard of today.
Phil Cook: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. Don't question.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Never build that.
Phil Cook: No, no. Even there are guys that have millions and millions of viewers on YouTube. But, the size of that television and one of the highlights of my, my life was meeting Thelma Lou, you know, Barney Fife's girlfriend, years after that show went off the air. And, that shows like that, their audience was just staggering. So you're right. It's. It's. It's quite different. And I do miss that sense of unity that we had where everybody knew what was what. Barney was doing. And. And it was kind of. It was a lot of fun.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Okay, so we had talked about Josh Howerton. Josh Howerton has a huge social media, presence. He's kind of just kind of come out of nowhere in a sense. I mean, Lake Point's a big church, but it's exploded under his leadership. Point.
Phil Cook: Lake Point, Yeah, Point, right. Yeah.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yeah, Lake Point. In. In Rockwall. what would be your. Your counsel, your. Your, strategy for a young guy that's a pastor that feels like God wants him to get his voice out there on a national platform? What would you tell him to do? What would be the kind of. The steps to get. To get the message out?
Phil Cook: Well, he's a very articulate guy. I've been watching some of his YouTube social media clips, and, I'm very impressed with him. And I like, for instance, he's already getting some good advice. I like the fact that he sets up his little podcast or social media clips as an interview. So he's not just pontificating to a camera, he's actually having a conversation. And so many people are better in that kind of a format, and they're much more natural. So he's doing a great job there. And I would be interested in him looking at television simply because, like I say, it can be very, very strategic in different ways to use it. I had one pastor tell me he would always strategically put his television program right before Sunday football. And he said he got tons of letters from wives saying, you know, my husband accepted Christ with a beer in his hand. He went in to the living room early to start watching the football game, tuned in a little early, and your. Your. Your, program was on and you were preaching the gospel, and he accepted Christ with a beer in his head. So, you know, it's a great way to reach people at certain, times of the day and certain days. So if you're strategic, it's remarkable how. How you can use television and radio is the same way. So, I think that, it's still. People forget that. That there's still a huge number of people watching broadcast tv, broadcast radio. I mean, the Oscars are still there, the super bowl is still there. you know, the Academy Awards, Grammys are still there. So that's. They generate massive, massive audiences. So I would. I'd love to chat with him sometime. It'd be quite. It'd be fun.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: What would you say to. Not to Josh Howerton, but to just another pastor? Would. Would it be wiser to try and build a social media, YouTube, that's relatively free to start building that before trying to launch.
Phil Cook: Always start there, Always start there. Free is good, free is good, and free, you know, social media, doing your live stream, doing a YouTube channel, those kind of things let you experiment and see where you're comfortable, what you're good at, where you kind of connect with an audience. And that's a big part of it. Finding the audience of people that really relate to what your. Your message is, your vision, your heart. That's so important. And you can experiment with those. It's no great cost. I mean, most high school kids in your congregation can tell you how to do it. And, so you, like, you say you could start for free, and then if that takes off, if you start really growing an audience, then we can have a conversation about what we call paid media, which is television, radio, those kind of things that would cost a little bit more. And, I just think that I'm open to all media options. I just think reaching the culture where the gospel is so critically important that we should absolutely use every means possible to try to make a difference in today's culture.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Phil, let me ask you this strategic question, because it faces a lot of pastors as you get older. people start to wonder, okay, you know, you're 40 years old, retirement's not even on the radar screen. You're 65, 70 years old, and retirement is on the radar screen, and it's in the minds of the people. What do you use as maybe a template in your own mind? If you were going to counsel a guy at a church and say, you know, I think you ought to consider, you know, in the next couple years stepping down, what would be the metric for that?
Phil Cook: Well, number one, start looking for a successor sooner than later. I think that one of the greatest mistakes we make in ministry today is we don't really put a lot of enough effort into finding a successor, developing that successor, getting the congregation, donors, whatever, to. To really, you know, connect with that person. I think that's so very, very important. I've worked with a lot of succession situations with churches and ministries, and sadly, the vast majority do not go well. And so I think, right. I would start with getting the successor in place, get him, get that person on staff, develop them, make people, make sure people know them and are comfortable with them. That's so very, very important. And I would think that. I would say that at some point, it's important to exit gracefully. I've worked with a number, sadly, a number of Pastors, usually of an older generation, that they will only step down when you pry their cold, dead hand off the steering wheel. And I do think that there's a point where it's time. It's time to step away and let another generation, new leader take over. And, and you can be there for advice. You can be there, you know, as kind of a elder statesman, like, like Pat Boone. We talked about him. but I think it's important that at some point you decide, look, let's. Let me step away gracefully, and, let's do everything you can to make that transition work. I think that's so very, very important.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: And, you know, one size doesn't fit all. So somebody might be 75 and they're still really effective. Somebody might be 65 and not very effective.
Phil Cook: Yeah, I don't. I can't afford to retire, so I keep moving on. No, I just love. I can't even imagine, you know, honestly, I can't imagine what it would be like to retire. Although I might like to write, to have more time to write. But, you know, I keep hearing stories about guys that retire and then in six months they die. I don't want to do that. so I'm just going to keep plugging away. And, But in a church or a ministry organization, particularly, at least start developing that next generation of leaders behind you. now is the time to start. Even in your 50s and 60s, now's the time to start developing those people and start thinking about, okay, how will that transition happen? I think it's. I think it's really helpful.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: We just got about a minute left, but what would be your counsel to pastors as they get older? Not just develop that next generation, but how should they be sensitive to. To how they're coming across?
Phil Cook: Well, I tell you what, you need to stay up on contemporary culture. Go to movies, watch, television, read magazines. One of the things that happens with leaders as they get older is they start losing touch with what's happening in the culture. They. All their references are to 30 years ago, back in the day. Back in the day. So, if anything, know what your congregation is concerned about. Know what is happening in the culture that is so critically important to stay connected with those people. And, sometimes it's difficult. I mean, I love my old 60s music, but you got to stay paying attention to what's going on now if you're going to continue to be effective.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Amen. Well, Phil, thank you so much for being my guest. You can reach out at Phil Cooke. Phil cook with an E C O-O-K-E.com go out today, Shine for Christ. Share what great things the Lord has done for you, and get guess what? God will use you as his witness. Thanks for listening to Real Truth for today. Pastor Jeff Schrieve here. I'll be with you again tomorrow on American Family Radio.
: Welcome to Real Truth for Today with Pastor Jeff Schrieve, Senior Pastor of First Baptist Church in Texarkana, Texas. Now, here's Pastor Jeff.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Well, good Tuesday morning and welcome to Real Truth for today. Pastor Jeff Schrieve here. Hope you're having a great morning. I want to read to you from Nehemiah chapter four. You know, Nehemiah is the book about rebuilding the wall. As Nehemiah was led by God to leave where he was in Susa to come to Jerusalem to rebuild this wall that had been down for so very long. And so they're rebuild building the wall. And the enemies around Jerusalem didn't want the wall rebuilt because they didn't want a strong Jerusalem. And it says in Nehemiah chapter 4. Now, when Sanballat Tobiah, the Arabs, the Ammonites and the Ashdodites heard that the repair of the walls of Jerusalem went on and that the breaches began to be closed, they were very angry. All of them conspired together to come and fight against Jerusalem and to cause a disturbance in it. But we prayed to our God and because of them, we set up a guard against them day and night. Thus in Judah it was said, the strength of the burden bearers is failing. Yet there is much rubbish, and we ourselves are unable to rebuild the wall. Our enemies said, they will not know or see until we come among them, kill them, and put a stop to the work. When the Jews who lived near them came and told us 10 times, they will come up against you from every place where you may turn, Nehemiah said, then I stationed men in the lowest parts of the space behind the wall. The exposed Places and I stationed the people and families with, with their swords, spears and bows. He had a security team. We want to talk about security today in the church and we want to talk about free speech in the church and we want to talk about public apologies and all these things that are very, very important going on in our culture today. And to help me with these important subjects is my friend, Dr. Phil Cook. Dr. Phil Cook is an author, speaker, media producer, consultant and strategic advisor. He, ah, president and the founder of Cook Media Group. He can be reached at phil cook.com and Dr. Phil, welcome to the program once again.
Phil Cook: Hey, I'm always thrilled to be on the show. This is, we always have a good time. This is fun.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: We do. What I like about you, Phil, is that we can talk about a lot of different things. And so we'll kick it off with church security. So way back in the book of Nehemiah, they were having to have security around the work of the Lord because people threaten to destroy it. So let's talk about security in the church. We have AI now and you can have security cameras that link up with AI for facial recognition and things like that. Sounds like a good thing, but not everybody's for it. What's the controversy there?
Phil Cook: Well, it's interesting. As you know, I've worked with hundreds and hundreds of churches across the country and I've seen the, you know, the extreme of pastors that, and they, we can disagree. You know, good, good people can disagree on this. But we have one on one end, pastors that don't believe we should have any security at all. That kind of denies God's power to protect his people. So we don't need security at the church. On the other hand, I've seen churches that are, you know, that have like a SWAT team of guys stationed around the church. In fact, I went to a church on the east coast that when you walk up to the church and they were rightly concerned about their kids safety. But when you walk up to the church, there were two police cars on either side of the front door of the church. You walk in, there's four armed officers in the lobby. Then there's a tall desk there with two, guys in suits and badges in front of a wall of monitors right in the lobby. I mean it's, it's, it's not like going to church. It's like going through the TSA when you go visit that church. And they had gotten so used to it, they didn't even think about it. So the Truth is, you can have a security team, you can be very protective, but it could be invisible. Nobody, you know, nobody needs to know. I know, I know churches where the parking guys are packing heat. I mean, they're carrying weapons, but you'd never in a nears know it. They've been trained. And so it's just interesting that, there are a lot of different viewpoints on this thing. But I think security, you know, Christianity was born in hostility. I mean, we've always had an enemy. And I think that people are coming against us. We're seeing more and more stories of churches that are being attacked, worshipers being attacked. And so I just think we need to have a, have a really good look. Now. A lot of it is not just having cameras and things, but also explaining it to the congregation. I think that's a big mistake a lot of people make. They bring in a team, a security team, or they have cameras, and they don't really talk to the congregation about it. So, you know, I'm the communication guy. I think we need to really have that conversation with our, our congregation, our donors, the people involved in our event so that they clearly know what's going on. And nobody's shocked later that we've got flock cameras in the parking lot, you know, photographing all of our license plates. So I do think that's an important issue.
: Yeah.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: You know, for us at First Baptist Texarkana, we have mostly uniformed, officers. We have some plainclothesmen, but they're all professional, law enforcement people. And we have six or seven guys. And I think, like you said, you don't want to have a whole row of them right there when you walk in. That's a little off putting, but I think it does give a, sense of confidence to the participant. When they see, okay, they have police presence here, it's kind of like going to the movie theater and you see there's a police officer there. You just know that, hey, if something goes haywire, the police are here.
Phil Cook: Well, in a number in these days, you know, with this pro Palestine movement that's going on, any church that supports Israel is going to start getting some threats. They're going to start, you know, drawing attention. So we live in a particularly hostile moment. I know a number of pastors around the country have had, who have been threatened. And so they've had a, someone sit near them, you know, in the congregation before they go up and preach. And you just have to be responsible, be careful. We, just live in a very fallen culture today, and there's a lot of bad people out there running around, and I think we need to protect the people that we put in charge of.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Well, my, worship pastor, Quinn Stanfield, he says, you know, Jeff, if somebody came into our church to cause trouble, they'd probably want to shoot you. And, I was saying, well, I was hoping they'd want to shoot. Shoot you. Quinn, you're up before I am. But I'm reminded of the incident that happened with Jon MacArthur some years ago. You might remember this, Phil, where he did the strange fire conference, and it really fired a lot of people up in the charismatic camp, and he had someone come on the platform and rebuke him. And, Jon, he didn't seem flustered about it, but he was like, hey, where are the security guys? What are you on the team for? How did this guy just all of a sudden walk up here? I think that is a, that is a concern for a lot of pastors. They don't want people just to be able to come up and maybe do harm.
Phil Cook: You know, I was at a church near Chicago recently where they had two guy security guys on stools on either side of the stage facing the congregation while the pastor preached.
Caroline: And.
Phil Cook: And I. And I thought, you know, that's. That's a little bit over the top for me. I'm. I'm kind of uncomfortable with that. But there's no reason a couple security guys couldn't be on the front row on either side of the stage just being paying attention and seeing what goes on. Jon was right. What. You know, however, I've had my disagreements with Jon, but, you know, to let guys just get up on stage, we need main. We need to maintain control of that service. I think pastors have a real godly responsibility to protect people, and we need to protect our pastors as well. Now, I will say this. In my church in Tennessee and probably your church in Texas, if an intruder came in, there'd probably be 50 or 100 people in the congregation that would shoot him first. I don't know. you know, but this. It's different in a blue state versus a red state, probably, but security matters. People need to just be aware that. That we're concerned about those things. And, And I don't think, you know, we could disagree on the levels of security, but I would like to see more churches take it seriously, put it that way.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Well, I know that, Lake Point, Josh Howerton's church in Rockwall, they were on social media and getting dinged for the fact that they're using AI with their security, which, seems to me to be a wise thing, not a bad thing. But it's hard to know where the line is between crossing the line of privacy and that kind of thing. where do you fall on that, Phil?
Phil Cook: Well, it is. And I don't have a problem with what Josh and the church did. The leadership team there, I like that church a lot, but I think that it's more of a matter of getting out in front of it. And this is a good word for pastors all over the country on a lot of issues. It's always better to let the congregation know before you do something, particularly something potentially intrusive, like, you know, putting in a multitude of cameras, as Lake Point is doing. And so I agree with you 100% that the cameras themselves even linked to AI is not an issue for me. But I do want to let the congregation know. I don't want them to suddenly be shocked that they're being tracked. And, you know, the cameras are out there. it's just a matter of are we communicating with the congregation? Are we being clear with what we're doing? I just don't like surprises. Now, granted, some people are going to be upset no matter what, and we're never going to be able to control that. I get that. But as much as possible, I just encourage pastors and church leaders to get out in front of whatever issue that happens to be. It's that it's that way with, you know, issues in the church like sexual abuse or embezzlement or crimes of other types. There's churches where people have stolen money. And, I talked to a pastor just the other day about that, and that was going on in his church. And it's. And, you know, he what he asked me, should I tell the congregation about this? Well, absolutely. I think that they're going to get really upset if you don't. I know of churches that have actually had youth leaders that were arrested for sexual abuse with minors in the church. And they didn't tell anybody. They didn't tell the congregation. So when parents find out, they're naturally outraged. And, that church is going to go into a meltdown. So I just believe that getting out in front of it, being honest, being clear, letting people know what's going on, I think that's really, really important.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Phil, how do you view, with television ministries and just things with social media. We posted, just, I don't know, some months back that, hey, we have cameras in the worship center. And we might shoot you. not shoot you. We might film you worshiping the Lord or being a part of that service. And, it wasn't so much for their appointment approval or they're not signing off on anything, but just to let them know that this takes place. Now, I would think as a Christian, if somebody shows me with my eyes closed worshiping the Lord, I wouldn't be embarrassed about that. We're not trying to show somebody that's scratching their nose or something like that. But how do you view that in terms of letting people know?
Phil Cook: Well, from a legal point of view, every state may be a little bit different, I'm not sure. But I do advocate for putting up a sign in the lobby that just says, you're probably presence here, allows us to film you. that's, that's the legal protection aspect of it. I think also again, from a communication perspective, it never hurts being, you know, in the pulpit every once in a while to remind the congregation that, hey, we're filming a television program. Jon Osteen, years and years ago at Lakewood Church. Joel Osteen's dad, who I thought was a. A brilliant pastor. Jon. Jon was just something else, but he liked to remind the congregation that, look, we're producing a national television program. People are getting saved. People are being delivered from stuff. And that congregation was so supportive of that. They would, they would allow them to drive down the middle row with an army tank with a, camera on it. I mean, they were just so, And Jon would actually read letters from people whose lives have been transformed. People have been saved through the television ministry. And the people got super excited about it. So it would be a good thing to remind people that, look, we're taking your photos for social media. We're videotaping for our television Ministry or our YouTube channel, our live stream, whatever, and make it a positive. You know, the church wants to know that their church is making an impact out there and reaching people. So I think that it never hurts, but I think the sign is the very minimum. I think we should at least have some kind of a sign that lets people know. Or if you, if you still print a bulletin, put it in there just to let people know they're being filmed. And. And, you know, the other thing is, as a pastor, I would probably make that kind of announcement, but also saying if you're uncomfortable being filmed, just, you know, move a few rows back. You know, we're gonna primarily film the front rows, you know, first ten Rows. And, maybe if you're uncomfortable, that's okay. Just sit over on the side or sit in the back. but if you're gonna be down front, just know that chances are you might get seen from time to time.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yeah, I did have somebody. This is early on when we started the television ministry. He got upset with me because he said, I didn't know I was gonna be on tv. And I said, well, I just kind of nicely said, well, I'm sorry about that, but we showed you praying. do you not want people to know that you pray? I didn't really understand why he was mad about that. And he didn't have a good comeback. I didn't try and be dismissive or trying to shame him or anything. But, you know, I think we, as Christians, we shouldn't be ashamed to be in the church and worshiping the Lord. And if you want to show me doing that, great.
Phil Cook: You know, I went through that phase on airplanes, you know, being nervous about pulling out my Bible and reading on an airplane or maybe reading a. A Christian book. And I finally realized, you know what? This is a great testimony. If somebody wants to ask me about it, great, let them ask me about it.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Right?
Phil Cook: There's so many ways we could share the gospel and just in our daily, everyday life and just mention, you know, hey, I was at church the other day and I learned this. And. And, so, yeah, I think it's. And by the way, let me just say before we close that topic, that in most. I think it's. Again, I'm not an attorney, but I think in most states now, just the presence of a video camera means that. That if you get taped, there's nothing you can. You can't complain about it. just the presence of a camera indicates that, hey, you're going to be taped. And if you don't like that, you can leave or sit somebody else.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: So we'll be back with more. Phil Cooke.
: Candace talks about finding out she was pregnant. Thankfully, an ultrasound provided by preborn allowed her to hear her baby's heartbeat.
Jeff Chamblee: The sonogram sealed the deal for me. My baby was like this tiny little spectrum of hope, and I saw his heart beating on the screen and knowing that there's life growing inside. I mean, that sonogram changed my life. I went from just Candace to movie mom. Thank you to everybody that has given these gifts. You guys are giving more than money. You guys are giving love.
: Preborn currently has clinics that do not have ultrasound machines. Would you consider a leadership Gift and sponsor a machine. Today, these life Saving machines cost $15,000 more than most centers can afford. Your donation will save countless lives for years to come. Dial £250 and say the key word baby or go to preborn.com afr this is real truth for today. Podcasts of the program are available on the podcast [email protected] now back to Pastor Jeff Schrieve.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Welcome back to the program. Pastor Jeff here talking to my friend Dr. Phil Cook, author, speaker, media producer, consultant and strategic advisor. He's the president of Cook Media Group and, his business has been around since 1991. Is that right, Phil?
Phil Cook: That's exactly right. We're in our 35th year. That's pretty remarkable.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: It really is. Well, you do great work. Okay, so from church security, now I want to talk about the news that is going around about President Trump saying he's not going to let the fake news media, cnn, MSNBC and the others into the White House anymore because all they do is write fake news stories. It's 92, 94% negative on President Trump. I mean, it's obviously not objective. And this was J.D. vance, as he was asked that question, this is his response.
Jeff Chamblee: Do you think it's appropriate for the President to be banning media outlets just
Phil Cook: because he doesn't like what they report?
JD Vance: Well, I take some issue with the premise. So he's not banning media outlets. What he's doing is saying, we're not going to give you stuff, special access to the White House if you engage in what is effectively propaganda. We have to remember those three outlets account about 92% of the stories that they have on the President of the United States, on the administration, are negative. That's not representative of the American people. It's not representative of public opinion. So if you're going to engage in what is effectively far left propaganda, why would a Republican White House give you special access?
Phil Cook: Sir, you talked a lot about free speech over the years.
Jeff Chamblee: How is this not an attack on free speech?
JD Vance: Well, they can still report on the Trump White House. They can still get the public reports. They can still, of course, talk to people in the administration and outside the administration. What the President has said is, we're not going to give you special access inside the White House. The way that I think about it is if you go back to the Biden administration or the Obama administration, compare, let's say, Politico to Breitbart. If you actually look at the objective analysis, Politico and Breitbart are Politico is as anti Trump as Trump. Breitbart was anti Obama or anti Biden. Now, why on God's green earth would Donald Trump be expected to give Politico special access when nobody in the media expected the Biden administration or the Obama administration to give Breitbart special access? It's about basic fairness.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: All right? It's about basic fairness. Do you agree with his decision to ban those guys from the White House?
Phil Cook: Absolutely. I think JD said it very, very well. The fact is, we forget that both Obama and Biden, they, they would not allow certain media outlets, conservative media outlets, to have that kind of special access to them. And it's funny that the liberals never said anything about that. I don't remember any great outcry about conservatives not being allowed access to the White House. So it's being very disingenuous right now and extraordinarily hypocritical and, because he's right. statistically, when you look at the number of stories that these outlets report, they're staggeringly negative and, and just, out of proportion to the, you know, out of portion of what the public feels, out of proportion to polls, polling out there. So it's just really kind of gotten ridiculous just how far left they are. And JD's right. It's, it's propaganda at some point. So I don't have a, I don't have any issue at all. But in, by the way, the President of the United States has in his power to invite whoever he wants into the White House for press briefings, for press conferences, those kind of events. So there's nothing absolutely right. And it's not about freedom of speech. They can still print whatever they want, which they'll still be, they'll even go more negative probably, but, I don't see anything wrong with it at all.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Okay, Phil, how do you see. Because Fox News is always pitted as the, you know, pro Trump news organization, and they're, they're going to write stories that are favorable to Trump. Do you see, do you see Fox News as just being like, hometown announcers for the team and they're never going to say anything negative?
Phil Cook: I, you know, it's funny, I've looked at a lot of different charts out there about, you know, media bias. And, and Fox obviously is, leans more conservative than they do liberal, but particularly in the last year, they've done a lot of, they've done plenty of negative stories on, on President Trump and conservative issues. So I don't think they're anywhere nearly as biased as the NewSong York Times would be, as CNN would be, as some of these other outlets are, I think if you look at objective charts of media bias, the liberal outlets are way, way off. Off the kind of. What do you call it, the medium. the media median that. We'll figure it out later. They're way off the center point. And, so some of the conservative outlets, like Fox, are obviously more conservative, but they're not extreme. So, I think that, yeah, it's. What Trump has done is perfectly normal. Certainly Biden did it, Obama did it. Nobody, Nobody had a major outcry then, so they're being a little hypocritical now.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Well, we were talking a little bit off air, Phil, that President Trump, with all his faults, with his massive, gigantic ego. Yeah, he has the ability. I've said this numerous times. He's a Timex watch. He takes a licking, keeps on ticking. He doesn't let that stop him. Keeps doing what he thinks is best for the American people. You can disagree with it if you want, but I think he's. He's operating out of a, out of a desire to do what's best for the people. He wants to see America be great. And when America's great, that helps everybody. A rising tide raises all boats. I mean, it's hard to deny that, yet at the same time, he can be his own worst enemy. And so I want to. I want to play you a little clip from Pat Boone, personal friend. And, this is what Pat kind of gave an open letter on, I think it was on Facebook to President Trump. This is what Pat had to say.
Pat Boone: Hello, Mr. President, Pat Boone here. Been a while since I spoke to you or about you, but really, I feel like I am your friend. I voted for you back when you were running for president and you were calling people's names and the debates. I cautioned you that you should not be doing something that makes you sound like a schoolboy on the playground. But if you want to be president, you should sound like a president and be presidential. Well, you did not take my m. Advice much at the time, but you've done a lot of things in the meanwhile. However, right now I feel like you're very tired, and I'm worried that many of us haven't prayed enough for you, because I think you're wearing out and you're feeling the pressure and expressing yourself in ways that are not becoming to you. They're not presidential. So may I recommend something very highly that you be quiet.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: All right, Phil, do you agree with Pat Boone?
Phil Cook: Pat. Pat is an elder statesman in my book. I think he's brilliant. I've known him for many, many years, and I think he's exactly right. You know, I'm like, we've talked about issues before. I'm the communications guy, and I'm always thinking about how we can communicate our point more effectively. And I think very often, Now, here's the thing. Trump has been hounded. He's been so criticized. I mean, in. In between his presidencies. When Biden was president, he was hounded legally, he was hounded in the courts, he was hounded in the press. he's just been attacked more than any other, certainly more than any president in my lifetime by far. And so just the beating he takes on a daily basis, I have to feel great sympathy for that. I mean, anybody. I think anybody would. and Trump derangement syndrome is real. We were talking in the break, the fact that there are people out there that just hate his guts, but they can't tell you why. I see man on the street interviews all the time with people that just. Just rip him to shreds. And then the interviewer says, well, why exactly? Give me a. Give me a thing you don't like about President Trump. And, they can't think of anything. So Trump derangement syndrome is real. So he's. I understand the pressure he's under besides just being president, but I think Pat's right. Pat's right. Very often, he. Trump will just lash out in anger. That doesn't make you look presidential. It doesn't make people have confidence in you. And I think it just feeds the left and the.
Pat Boone: The.
Phil Cook: The news media that's out to get you. So I would love that to be the case. I think I. I think, Pat is absolutely spot on, in his analysis.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Phil, how do you think, Ronald Reagan would have handled attacks that are that vicious?
Phil Cook: You know, Ronald Reagan was a brilliant orator. he was an professional actor, first of all. He was a radio announcer before that, and then he was a spokesperson for numerous commercial companies. he did television commercials and. And TV appearances where he was a spokesperson. He was brilliant on his feet, and he was a very creative guy. And, you know, we go back now and play some of the witty things that he said in response to other politicians, in response to the news media. And so I just think that, he was much more eloquent than, you know, Donald Trump's a businessman, and, he. He did not have, you know, he was on the Apprentice, but that's not really much of a television program. but I think Reagan was a much better orator. He was a much better speaker. He was a much more creative thinker. And so I think his, his responses were much more eloquent and, you know, you know, great responses. Just take the wind out of the sails of the other side. You know, when you can come back and just say something really witty, that really makes a big difference. So in, you know, in contrast, President Trump very often just lashes out, and I don't think that helps his cause at all.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: How do you think, Ron DeSantis does when people come after him because he can be pretty?
Phil Cook: Oh, I like him a lot. He says some great stuff and he, he's a little more pointed than Reagan was. he gets right to the cuts, right to the heart of the matter. And we'll, we'll. But he's not afraid to go head to head with people, I think. I think, Margot, Marco Rubio is in a similar way. He's not afraid to take on the president press. I've seen him in these hearings where he's just really upfront about this. He's not cowering, he's not hiding, he's just going right after him. And so I like this, this up and coming team we have of DeSantis, J.D. vance, Marco Rubio. There's a whole group of leaders in the conservative movement now that are not afraid to go head to head with anybody. And that, that's a great thing. And they're, they're much more, you know, they're m. Much more thoughtful in their response than President Trump often is. And so I'm looking forward to the future.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Well, name calling doesn't get you anywhere. you know, it does as, as Pat Boone said, it makes you look like you're, you know, a 10th grader or something like that, or even a seventh grader. And I hate to say that because I like President Trump. I appreciate what he does. I do think he's got a moral compass where, Phil, you and I'd probably share the same opinion. The other side has lost a moral compass. They call good evil and evil good. You can't vote for that.
Phil Cook: When you look at the things that the left is sided with today, from abortion to the, you know, anti, anti Semitism to so many other things, I mean, and it's abortion right up to the moment of birth. It's, it's just extreme issues that we would have never considered 20 years ago. that's all on the left. And so it's hard to see that. It's hard not to see that they've lost their moral compass completely.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yes. Okay, let me shift gears into something that's, kind of near and dear to my heart as a University of Texas Longhorns fan. just last week or the week before game, before Texas beat Ohio State in a big showdown in Austin, and they came back from 20 points down and won 20, 4 to 23. And it was in the press, you know, Sarkeesian was supposed to have an interview right after game with Holly Rowe, and something got delayed and so he kind of cut her short. And people were talking about, ah, that was so rude. And. And then there were the AI memes and the AI meme with, Sarkeesian back slapping Holly Rowe. And then Arch Manning, college kid. he said, I thought that was funny. Well, I'm 64 years old. I thought it was funny, too. It wasn't real. It was like watching a movie. I mentioned this. You know, I saw Happy Gilmore, and when the air conditioning unit fell on the mista Mr. Lady, I thought that was funny. It didn't really happen. it might have been a different story if that was a real, you know, real video footage, but it wasn't. So, Arch felt the need to apologize. To apologize to Holly Rowe. If you had been his consultant, would you have told him to do that or not do that?
Phil Cook: Well, there's a number of things going on over here. First of all, I got my master's degree at University of Oklahoma, so I always like it in Texas. Controversy. I'm all for that, 100%. first of all, it's a dumb video. We're going to see more and more of these as the AI world blows up as it is. It's a dumb video, and we're going to see those kind of things much more often. But as you say, he's our college kid. Give the guy a break. He's a college guy and those things happen. You know, it's regrettable in many ways because, you know, you don't like, scenes of violence against women, whether it's funny or staged or whatever. However, keep in mind that the media is fueled by outrage, and so particularly the left media is going to be looking for things like that to make a much bigger deal out of it than it really is. And I, think that, very often when you do apologize for things like that you're playing right into their hand, you're affirming them. And, but that doesn't get rid of the fact that it was a dumb video. And I don't even know why they were talking about it in a press conference after, you know, after a game. But, it's, it's, it was really stupid all around. And I, I'm, I would have probably, I would have probably said go ahead and apologize for it because it was, it is just dumb all the way around. I just, this is more of a dumb issue than a legitimate issue. And, and you're feeding into the left. So I don't, It's a, it's a kind of a circle of stupidity. but I think as Christians, we're going to see this more and more and more. We're going to see extreme videos like that, doing really stupid things that are funny, that are silly. But we also have to keep in mind that whether you're a pastor or a college quarterback, you're in the public eye and there are people on both sides of the issue that are watching and looking at this. And we just have to be sensitive about, about how we respond to those kind of things.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Well, it is kind of a fine line sometimes to know when, when you apologize, when you have a public apology and when you say, well, no, I'm not apologizing for that. I didn't do anything wrong.
Phil Cook: Yes, I agree, I agree. And I have to say that very, very often right before I post something on social media, I think, wait a second. Do I want, you know, I think this is funny privately. Do I want to post this publicly as a funny thing? And very, you know, I have that whole folder of social media memes that my wife won't, let me post. And, so it's, it, we have to really be conscious and think about that. But you're right. There are times when, you know, we've gotten to this apology driven culture where we're always feeling, you know, it's so woke that we're offending somebody. And I just, I really like that's. Again, we go back to J.D. vance or Marco Rubio. Excuse me. Or Ron DeSantis, who. They're not afraid to stand up and speak the truth and say something and not apologize for it. So I think very often we have to be bold in what we believe. No question about it.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yeah, well, it is, it is one of those things that if I hurt somebody's feelings, I had a lady get upset with me because, I made a comment, it was a joke, but I said that my middle daughter, if, if we were talking about if something happened to mom and I remarried, she said, dad, you just need to know, if something happened to mom and you remarried, I already hate her. And it was just a joke, you know. And, I said that. And some, some lady told me, she said, well, that really offended me because I'm experiencing that with my step kids. And I said, well, I'm in it, tongue in cheek.
Phil Cook: So anyway, yeah, well, by the way, I'm. I'm a pastor's kid, so, I would love to speak with your daughter because I know she's got. Going through a lot right now. The children become the brunt of jokes from the pulpit, their whole youth. So it's tough.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yes. Well, we're up against a break. When we come back, we'll take your calls. 888-589-8840. That's 888589 8840. Phil will be with us, so give us a call and let's talk.
: If you'd like to contact Pastor Jeff, email pastor jeffromhishheart.org now back to Real Truth for today with Pastor Jeff Schrieve.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Welcome back to the program. Pastor Jeff here talking to my friend Dr. Phil Cook, author, speaker, media producer, consultant and strategic advisor, president and founder of Cook media Group since 1991. Phil, you've been all over, really all around the world, filming and helping people in ministry and, doing commercials and documentaries, all sorts of things. What, what has been your favorite thing to do?
Phil Cook: You know what? I have the best job ever. We've been able to film in nearly 80 countries around the world. And to be able to engage with that many churches, ministries, and of course, ministries that are doing remarkable work. We were just in India a few weeks ago filming a documentary for a ministry there, Good Shepherd India, that's involved in, ah, they have more than 100 medical clinics. they have a network of churches. They've launched, almost 100 schools. And filming that story about the work that they're doing is really remarkable. So we get to do some just amazing things. And, and I find that most churches and ministry organizations don't tell their story well. They're doing remarkable things. And so we come along and help them tell their story. We've done just hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of videos and helped them with their social media and so many other things that it's a real joy. I just think I have the best Job in the world.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Amen. You do well with it. Well, we're going to the phone lines. 888-589-8840. That's 885-89840. And we have our friend Charlotte on the line from Texas. We prayed for Charlotte as she was having a procedure done just last week. Charlotte, welcome to the program.
Caroline: Well, thank you so much. I tell you, I thank God every time I turn my radio on to listen to your program, I have two things to say. I am in such total agreement. You. You all said today. And I wanted to let you know that last week when I called that prayer request, I didn't expect you to mention it on the radio, but I was laying there absolutely freaking out about to have a procedure that I believe killed my mother. And so I was very upset. And I remembered that I looked at the clock and it was 8 o'. Clock. I turned the radio on, and I want you to know how much the scripture verses that you read blessed my heart and palmed my soul. And I was able to go into that with absolute faith that the Lord was in control and it was going to be okay. And it was. It really was. So I just praise the lord every time 8:00 clock gets here. I do.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yeah. Oh, you're so sweet. Well, thank you, Charlotte. I'm glad you got a good report, and I'm glad you're, you're up and running on all eight cylinders.
Caroline: Yes, thank you. Thank you so much.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: You're welcome. God bless you. Well, we have Roy on the line from Mississippi. Roy, welcome to Real Truth for today.
Caroline: Hey, Pastor Jeff, I love your show, man. I appreciate everything you do. I have two comments. My first one is on Trump. I can tell you what fuels Trump's arrangement soon. There's two reasons. One, he's not politically correct, and two, he's not afraid to speak his mind. And I say he does that vicariously sometimes, for sure. But he exposes how they really are. And it's the same reason. And I'm not comparing Trump to Christ, because there's only one Christ. There's only one king. That's Jesus. But the reason that the left don't like the gospel is because it doesn't offend them. It convicts them and exposes them for who they really are and how they're really living. And that's the comment I got on it. Thank you, sir.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yeah, thanks, Roy.
Phil Cook: That's good.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Would you agree, Phil?
Phil Cook: Absolutely agree, Roy. Brilliantly said. And let me go back to Charlotte. For a second. Her testimony is a great story about the power of media. You know, if she had not been listening to radio that morning, she would have not heard your message, heard those scriptures, been encouraged, and gone into that surgery with confidence. I just think that, it's a great, great story about why media matters. It reaches people in unexpected ways and unexpected places. And I. I hear stories like that almost every day of people whose lives have been changed simply because of a social media post or a website or a video or a TV program or a radio program. It's just quite remarkable. So good for her. Way to go, Charlotte.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Phil, as far as media goes, you've been in a long time. Things have changed so much. It used to be okay. When we first started from His Heart ministries in late 2004, you wanted to be on television, radio. They were saying, oh, it's kind of on the way out, which was not true. But now, you know, like, getting on Trinity Broadcasting Network gave you a huge audience. Now it's not like that because everything is so fractured. Do you see that as a good thing or as a bad thing?
Phil Cook: it's a different thing, that's for sure. I think we have to just face reality, understand it has changed. That doesn't mean television or radio is. Is irrelevant. We just have to be more strategic in how we use it. You know, back in the days when Billy Graham, Oral Roberts, Rex Humbard, those guys were on television, they were reaching hundreds of millions of people. It was amazing the size of their audience. I've been back and tracked it, and it's just staggering today because we have so many literally unlimited channels. it's very hard to reach a mass audience quite like that. So we just have to be more careful. One of the things we're doing, for instance, is using churches, having churches on television locally to do a program to reach people that would never darken the door of their church and hopefully drive them to come and check out the church. And we're seeing churches that are just growing like crazy because they have a local broadcast of their service. People get to see it who are at home maybe getting ready for the football game or something else on Sundays. They see it and think, wow, I like what that guy says. I'm going to go hear him. And they go visit the church. And so if you're strategic about how you use television, it can still be quite effective. So. And radio is the same way, you know, but we have to understand it's definitely changed, and it's not going back to the way it was.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Well, it's. It's a lot harder. I've said this before, Phil, from a preaching standpoint, you know, back in the day, you and I aren't too far away from the same age. And, back in the day, everybody watched the same things. You. Yes, you could make a reference to Gilligan's Island. Everyone knew who the skipper was. And, you can't do that anymore.
Phil Cook: I mean, yeah, it's absolutely true. We called it America's Campfire. Television was America's Campfire. It was like we all sat around it and watched the same thing. And you're exactly right. It created a certain unity in the country that I, That I do miss. I have to say, I really do miss those kind of social, cultural references that we used to have. yeah, everybody knew Gilligan, you know, and everybody knew who Hogan was. You know, Hogan's Heroes. And, nowadays it's just not like that. It's maybe getting that way with a newer generation with certain YouTube figures, influencers on YouTube. But even that changes much more than the old television programs did. So it is a different world.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: I don't know if I told you this, but, some years ago, I got, I got an email from Graham Care Net. Do you know who he is?
Phil Cook: No, I don't.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: He's the Galloping Gourmet.
Phil Cook: Oh, K E R R that one. Yes, I know who it is. Yeah, absolutely. That's funny.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: So I got an email from him. I thought it was, you know, this can't be the guy. And so I communicated with him. It was the guy. And so we FaceTime several times. You know, he's. He's close to 90 years old now. I had him on the radio just a couple of years ago. Very interesting guy. He, he told me, Phil, when he was doing the Galloping gourmet. This is early 70s, probably. He said he had an audience of about 200 million people. I mean, that would, that would be unheard of today.
Phil Cook: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. Don't question.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Never build that.
Phil Cook: No, no. Even there are guys that have millions and millions of viewers on YouTube. But, the size of that television and one of the highlights of my, my life was meeting Thelma Lou, you know, Barney Fife's girlfriend, years after that show went off the air. And, that shows like that, their audience was just staggering. So you're right. It's. It's. It's quite different. And I do miss that sense of unity that we had where everybody knew what was what. Barney was doing. And. And it was kind of. It was a lot of fun.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Okay, so we had talked about Josh Howerton. Josh Howerton has a huge social media, presence. He's kind of just kind of come out of nowhere in a sense. I mean, Lake Point's a big church, but it's exploded under his leadership. Point.
Phil Cook: Lake Point, Yeah, Point, right. Yeah.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yeah, Lake Point. In. In Rockwall. what would be your. Your counsel, your. Your, strategy for a young guy that's a pastor that feels like God wants him to get his voice out there on a national platform? What would you tell him to do? What would be the kind of. The steps to get. To get the message out?
Phil Cook: Well, he's a very articulate guy. I've been watching some of his YouTube social media clips, and, I'm very impressed with him. And I like, for instance, he's already getting some good advice. I like the fact that he sets up his little podcast or social media clips as an interview. So he's not just pontificating to a camera, he's actually having a conversation. And so many people are better in that kind of a format, and they're much more natural. So he's doing a great job there. And I would be interested in him looking at television simply because, like I say, it can be very, very strategic in different ways to use it. I had one pastor tell me he would always strategically put his television program right before Sunday football. And he said he got tons of letters from wives saying, you know, my husband accepted Christ with a beer in his hand. He went in to the living room early to start watching the football game, tuned in a little early, and your. Your. Your, program was on and you were preaching the gospel, and he accepted Christ with a beer in his head. So, you know, it's a great way to reach people at certain, times of the day and certain days. So if you're strategic, it's remarkable how. How you can use television and radio is the same way. So, I think that, it's still. People forget that. That there's still a huge number of people watching broadcast tv, broadcast radio. I mean, the Oscars are still there, the super bowl is still there. you know, the Academy Awards, Grammys are still there. So that's. They generate massive, massive audiences. So I would. I'd love to chat with him sometime. It'd be quite. It'd be fun.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: What would you say to. Not to Josh Howerton, but to just another pastor? Would. Would it be wiser to try and build a social media, YouTube, that's relatively free to start building that before trying to launch.
Phil Cook: Always start there, Always start there. Free is good, free is good, and free, you know, social media, doing your live stream, doing a YouTube channel, those kind of things let you experiment and see where you're comfortable, what you're good at, where you kind of connect with an audience. And that's a big part of it. Finding the audience of people that really relate to what your. Your message is, your vision, your heart. That's so important. And you can experiment with those. It's no great cost. I mean, most high school kids in your congregation can tell you how to do it. And, so you, like, you say you could start for free, and then if that takes off, if you start really growing an audience, then we can have a conversation about what we call paid media, which is television, radio, those kind of things that would cost a little bit more. And, I just think that I'm open to all media options. I just think reaching the culture where the gospel is so critically important that we should absolutely use every means possible to try to make a difference in today's culture.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Phil, let me ask you this strategic question, because it faces a lot of pastors as you get older. people start to wonder, okay, you know, you're 40 years old, retirement's not even on the radar screen. You're 65, 70 years old, and retirement is on the radar screen, and it's in the minds of the people. What do you use as maybe a template in your own mind? If you were going to counsel a guy at a church and say, you know, I think you ought to consider, you know, in the next couple years stepping down, what would be the metric for that?
Phil Cook: Well, number one, start looking for a successor sooner than later. I think that one of the greatest mistakes we make in ministry today is we don't really put a lot of enough effort into finding a successor, developing that successor, getting the congregation, donors, whatever, to. To really, you know, connect with that person. I think that's so very, very important. I've worked with a lot of succession situations with churches and ministries, and sadly, the vast majority do not go well. And so I think, right. I would start with getting the successor in place, get him, get that person on staff, develop them, make people, make sure people know them and are comfortable with them. That's so very, very important. And I would think that. I would say that at some point, it's important to exit gracefully. I've worked with a number, sadly, a number of Pastors, usually of an older generation, that they will only step down when you pry their cold, dead hand off the steering wheel. And I do think that there's a point where it's time. It's time to step away and let another generation, new leader take over. And, and you can be there for advice. You can be there, you know, as kind of a elder statesman, like, like Pat Boone. We talked about him. but I think it's important that at some point you decide, look, let's. Let me step away gracefully, and, let's do everything you can to make that transition work. I think that's so very, very important.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: And, you know, one size doesn't fit all. So somebody might be 75 and they're still really effective. Somebody might be 65 and not very effective.
Phil Cook: Yeah, I don't. I can't afford to retire, so I keep moving on. No, I just love. I can't even imagine, you know, honestly, I can't imagine what it would be like to retire. Although I might like to write, to have more time to write. But, you know, I keep hearing stories about guys that retire and then in six months they die. I don't want to do that. so I'm just going to keep plugging away. And, But in a church or a ministry organization, particularly, at least start developing that next generation of leaders behind you. now is the time to start. Even in your 50s and 60s, now's the time to start developing those people and start thinking about, okay, how will that transition happen? I think it's. I think it's really helpful.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: We just got about a minute left, but what would be your counsel to pastors as they get older? Not just develop that next generation, but how should they be sensitive to. To how they're coming across?
Phil Cook: Well, I tell you what, you need to stay up on contemporary culture. Go to movies, watch, television, read magazines. One of the things that happens with leaders as they get older is they start losing touch with what's happening in the culture. They. All their references are to 30 years ago, back in the day. Back in the day. So, if anything, know what your congregation is concerned about. Know what is happening in the culture that is so critically important to stay connected with those people. And, sometimes it's difficult. I mean, I love my old 60s music, but you got to stay paying attention to what's going on now if you're going to continue to be effective.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Amen. Well, Phil, thank you so much for being my guest. You can reach out at Phil Cooke. Phil cook with an E C O-O-K-E.com go out today, Shine for Christ. Share what great things the Lord has done for you, and get guess what? God will use you as his witness. Thanks for listening to Real Truth for today. Pastor Jeff Schrieve here. I'll be with you again tomorrow on American Family Radio.
Pastor Jeff Schreve welcomes Dr. Phil Cook, author, speaker, media producer, and president of Cook Media Group, for a wide-ranging discussion on church security, communication, media, and ministry leadership. They discuss practical approaches to protecting churches, the importance of communicating security and filming policies to congregations, navigating public apologies and social media, and responding to a rapidly changing media landscape. Phil also shares advice for pastors using television, radio, and social media to reach their communities, as well as the importance of developing the next generation of leaders and planning for healthy ministry succession.
Live
Did you know American Family Radio is listener-supported? Your monthly financial support will allow us to continue upholding Godly values through our numerous channels, like American Family Radio, One Million Moms, The Stand magazine, and many more.
Become a Great Commission Partner TODAY to help AFR transform culture by rebuilding the family. When you donate today, you’ll get access to:
