Pastor Jeff Schreve: Well, good Wednesday morning, and welcome to Real Truth for today. Pastor Jeff Schrieve here. Hope you're having a wonderful Wednesday morning. I have to tell you, yesterday, I met a friend at the golf course at five o', clock, and, I said, hey, after work, let's go out and play golf. And, I like to play golf in the evenings. normally try and get out there on Tuesdays because the course is not very crowded, but it was very hot yesterday. And I like to walk. And so I have a push cart that I use. And I think, man, I'm killing two birds. Even if I play bad, it's like, well, at least I walk. Walked a few miles. And, I'll play sometimes if the weather's not too bad. I can get through almost 18 holes, but a lot of times it's. It's, 10, 11, 12 holes, something like that. Well, the guy I was playing with, he's older than I am, and so, you know, he was, he was careful and he played. We played, I don't know, six or seven holes. And he goes, I think that's enough for me. Well, I should have left with him. I played another four holes, got so hot, and, that's not good for me. And so last night was not a good night because I get cramps, ah, really bad in my legs when I try and go to bed. And, so I was up a long time, having difficulty sleeping because of the leg cramps, which I did a little research on, very, very common, said, something like 40 to 50% of people have leg cramps at night. I remember my wife used to get them when she was pregnant. And she would all of a sudden, just in the middle of the night, jump out of bed and, start standing on her, her, leg to try and release the cramp in her calf. if you've ever had leg cramps, you know that that makes it hard to sleep, and those things can really, really hurt. But I'm back. I'm doing, doing much better. I was pounding pickle juice and eating bananas and pounding the liquid iv, whatever I could do to try and get some, potassium and magnesium back into my body. So be careful out there. It is very, very hot. And, when you're going to do something outside, I would recommend doing it in the early part of the day. And don't, follow in my footsteps. Well. First Jon, chapter 2, verse 18. The apostle Jon says this, children, it is the last hour. And just as you heard that Antichrist is coming, even now, many Antichrists have appeared. From this we know that it is the last hour. Then he says this in verse 19 of, 1 Jon 2. They went out from us, but they were not really of us. For if they had been of of us, they would have remained with us. But they went out so that it might be shown that they all are not of us. Jesus said in his sermon, the Olivet discourse, Matthew, chapter 24, 25, he said, the one who endures to the end, he shall be saved. And, people think that that means you got to hold on to Jesus. That's not what that's teaching. The one who endures to the end, he shall be saved, because the one who endures to the end is saved. How do you know if a person is saved? They endure to the end. They don't fall away. They don't. The theological term is apostatize, to fall away from the faith. Now, we have people today, that are very popular, popular on social media. they start out, and everybody's jumping on the bandwagon. They think, man, this person is so great. Now, one of those that I ran across, and this is what triggered the whole program today. for me, Protestia is a great, site on the X platform that, gives you information on what's going on in this church and that church and the other church. And they show clips from church services, and you just see with your own eyes the apostasy, that is taking place. And these churches that once preached the gospel, now the pastor, oftentimes it's a woman, gets up and has the rainbow flag, draped across her neck. You know, the robe thing that a lot of those people wear. But theirs is a rainbow flag to show solidarity with the LGBTQIA crowd. And, they've jettisoned the gospel. They don't like the Gospel. They don't like what the Bible has to say about morality. And you just see this and you just say, good night. God have mercy. Come, Lord Jesus and the people that come to those churches. It's unbelievable. Why do you go to church? You're going to church just to be affirmed in your sin. I tell people all the time from the pulpit, listen, if you're struggling with, same sex attraction, you're struggling, struggling with sexual immorality, you're struggling with, gender identity, you're struggling with alcohol, drugs, you're struggling with gambling addiction, pornography addiction, whatever it might be, whatever it is you're struggling with. We want to help you. We want you to come here. But you need to know something. We're going to tell you the truth. We're going to speak the truth in love. And we will never, no, never, no, never affirm you in your sin, because that would be the cruelest thing of all. That's not love. First Corinthians, chapter 13, verse 6. Love does not rejoice in unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth. That's why, you know the question, well, should I go to my gay, family members, homosexual, wedding? No, you shouldn't go. Why? Because of 1 Corinthians 13, you hear people say, well, I want to be able to minister to them, and if I don't go, that'll not affirm them. And I want to love them. Well, real love, you know, wedding is a celebration. It's a time of rejoicing. there's a reception, there's gaiety, just a celebratory atmosphere. Well, you can't do that as a Christian because of love, not because you don't have love. It's because you do have love. Love does not rejoice in unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth. And so you can't celebrate a wedding because it's unrighteous in the sight of God when it's between a man and a man or a woman and a woman. And that's just a slap in the face of God. Well, Protestia had a clip yesterday or a post about the, very popular woman influencer named Jen Hatmaker. And, it was about Jen Hatmaker has, changed her view on hell. And she said it was the best thing that happened to me. She's laid down her belief in a literal hell. And so I was doing a little research about Jen Hatmaker. You know, she was born in 1974, American author, speaker Podcaster and former prominent evangelical influencer. She rose to fame in conservative Christian circles through witty, relatable books on faith, family and simple living. she had the book An Experimental Mutiny Against Excess and the 2015 NewSong York Times bestseller titled for the Love. She spoke at women's conferences. She and her husband, Brandon, her then husband Brandon, they've since divorced. they co founded a church in Austin. she also starred in an HGTV home renovation show and adopted two children from Ethiopia. That gives her five children, total. Well, my secretary, I was talking to my secretary this morning, Casey, and she said, yeah, I follow Jen Hatmaker. I mean, I liked what she had to say. And she said, I followed her until she went off the rails. And, in her heyday, I think Jen Hatmaker had, something like 1.5 million followers across social media. Well, now she has about a million less than that, because she did go off the rails. They went out from us, Jon says, but they are not of us. If they had been of us, they would have remained with us. How do we know when people are genuine or not? Well, Jesus said, you will know them by their fruits. Peter said in 2 Peter 2:1, but false prophets went out among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves. And, the Bible says, First Jon, chapter four, beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God. Because many false prophets have gone out into the world. We need to be careful with people. And we are seeing people, apostatized. That's, ah, a hard word to say, but we're seeing people fall away from the faith, which is one of the marks of the, coming of the Lord. There's going to be a great, falling away of the faith. Second Corinthians, chapter two talks about that. And, you know, I read, From Luke chapter 18 last week on the program, and Jesus tells the parable about the woman with the judge, and she keeps coming and coming and coming. And Jesus said, men ought always to pray and not to faint. And he tells this parable, and then he ends the parable by saying this, that your Father is going to respond to those who cry out to him day and night. and your father is not the unrighteous judge. Your father cares about you and he will respond to you as you pray. But, it was a parable that emphasized being persistent, not giving up, coming day after Day after day after day. And then he ends the parable by saying this. But when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on the earth? Now, I remember preaching years ago, preaching that passage, and I, was like, trying to figure out a way, what does that mean? Because surely when the Son of Man comes, he's going to find a lot of faith on the earth. And so I was reading a commentary that said, well, maybe he's talking about faithfulness and prayer, because the parable is about prayer. When the Son of Man comes, will he find, people faithfully praying? Well, perhaps that's what that means, but I think it's more just, the obvious face value reading of it. When the Son of Man comes, are people still going to be worshiping the one true God who has revealed himself in the Lord Jesus Christ? As it was in the days of Noah, so shall the coming of the Son of Man be. How many people believed in the true God, Yahweh, God in the days of Noah? Well, there was Noah and Mrs. Noah and Ham and his wife, and Shem and his wife, and Japheth and his wife, Noah's three sons and, their corresponding wives. It was Noah and seven other people. That was it. There were a lot of people living on the earth. The earth had been going on for, 1600 years. And, lots and lots and lots of people. People lived a long time before the flood. The flood changed, the earth and the cosmology of the earth. And the water opened up from the depths, and the canopy that was over the earth that came down and, flooded the earth, the whole earth. Not a local flood, but a worldwide flood. Everything changed. But people didn't believe Noah. And so judgment, came, and only eight people were saved. You know, the ark is a picture of Jesus. He is our ark of salvation. But, people didn't believe Noah's preaching. They didn't respond. And, you know, when people don't respond, and the Lord has done everything, he's exhausted all his avenues for to reach people with the truth. And they just say, no, no, no, no, no. Then all that's left is judgment. When does judgment come? Judgment comes when people quit, responding. And the Lord says, well, there's nothing else I can do, because they're not responding to the message. He doesn't want to judge. He wants to save. And so you have, from the time of Adam until the flood, people believe the truth. Abel believed the truth and Seth believed the truth. And God's always had a remnant. But you get to Noah and it's just Noah and his family. When the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on the earth? So many people who he thought are solid believers. You don't necessarily know that many people thought Jen Hatmaker was a solid believer, but she is 1. 1 Jon, chapter 2, verse 19. Who went out from us but is not really of us. Because if she had been of us, she would have remained with us and would have remained believing the doctrines of the faith. Were you listening to Real Truth for Today? Pastor Jeff Schrieve Here, we're talking about First Jon 2:19. We're talking about those who apostatize. We'll be right back.

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Pastor Jeff Schreve: Welcome back to the program. Pastor Jeff. Here we're talking about First Jon 2:19. They went out from us, but they were not really of us. For if they had been of us, they would have remained with us. But they went out in order that it might be shown that they all are not of us. You know, we get the idea that people lose their salvation. Oh, that person was a big time Christian at one time. But then they lost their salvation. No, they didn't. They never had it. 1 Jon 2:19. They never had it. They looked the part, for a while, but over time you saw that they weren't really believers. As Jon MacArthur has, insightfully said, time and truth go hand in hand. Give someone enough time and you will learn the truth about them if they're genuine or not. Now Christians can get involved in lots of sin. And, we can fall into terrible, horrible sin, whether it's sexual sin or, financial sin or, what have you. But that doesn't mean people that do that. then they have to confess that to God. I think of Steven Lawson, okay, he had an affair, had to confess that. Jesus did confess it, and you repent of it. Now you can disqualify yourself from public ministry. It doesn't mean you can't share your faith. It doesn't mean you can't, share your testimony. Doesn't mean you can't be right with God and forgiven. God is a wonderful God. The Lord. The Lord God, compassionate and gracious, slow to anger and abounding in loving kindness and truth. Who keeps loving kindness for thousands, who forgives iniquity, transgression and sin. Yet he will by no means leave the guilty unpunished. Visiting the iniquity of the fathers, on the children and on the grandchildren to the third and fourth generations. Exodus 34, 6, 7. Every Christian needs to memorize that. That is what God says about himself. As I had a seminary professor say, God is skewed to the good. He, has loving kindness for thousands, yet he visits the iniquity, the twistedness of sin on the fathers, on the children, and on the grandchildren to the third and fourth generation, thousands versus, the third and fourth generations. God is skewed to the good. And so we need to remember that about God. He is the God who forgives. But here's the thing about those guys that get involved in terrible, horrible sin. Well, they say with David, second Samuel, chapter 12, when Nathan the prophet came to him and called him out on his sin with Bathsheba and Uriah the Hittite, I have sinned. We don't fall away from the faith and say, well, I don't believe that's a sin. I can do whatever I want. I've just decided that, sexual immorality, adultery is not a sin anymore. I've taken it off the Ten Commandments. They don't do that. But now these people who. First Jon 2:19, went out from us, but they are not of us. They do that. And so what happened to Jen Hatmaker? We're talking about Jen Hatmaker. Her recent comment about, you know, I no longer believe in a literal hell. It has been the best thing that ever happened to me. Yeah, you just make it up as you go along. You know, I don't like the idea of hell and God judging people. So I Just don't believe that anymore. And now I'm so free. You know, God is the one who sets the boundary markers for morality. God is the one. I mean, sanctify them in the truth. Jesus said, Jon 17:17, your word is truth. And so where do we get truth from? Truth is not what you think, it's not what you feel, it's not what you want it to be. Truth is what God says. And so lots of people, don't want there to be a hell. They don't want there to be a judgment. I like, Rob Bell's book, Another guy that fell away from the faith. I like that book. love Wins. Because, you know, it's just. It teaches. Although he denied this, but it teaches universalism. And, when we talk about people who die and go to hell, he's in his trailer for the book. This came out years ago. But he's like, how do you know that person's in hell? You know, who are you to say any of that stuff? It's like, well, I'm nobody to say that. But I can tell you what the judge of all the earth has said in his word. unless you believe I am. Jesus said, Jon, chapter eight, you will all die in your sins. Luke, chapter 13, verses three and five. Jesus said, unless you repent, you will all likewise perish. The message that we have to share with people, that Jesus saves. Jon 3:16. For God so loved the world, for God so loved you and me, that he gave his only begotten son, that whosoever believes in in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. That's called the Gospel in a nutshell. Jon 3:16. Jon 3:17. For God did not send his son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world should be saved through him. And this is the testimony that light has come into the world. And men love the darkness rather than the light. For their deeds are evil. And they don't come to the light. They hate the light. They don't come to the light, lest their deeds should be exposed. They like to live in the darkness. And so Jen Hatfield went off the rails, and she fell away from the faith that she once said she believed. And here was the departure point. It's when her daughter Sidney came out as homosexual. This tends to be a departure point for lots of those in the ministry now, whether it's. They totally apostatize and just don't believe anything anymore. that's true for some. It's True for her, she just keeps going further and further away from the truth. But others, they soften their stance. Everything becomes gray where they used to be black and white. Now it's like, whoa, wait a minute. But this happens to my own son, my own daughter. So now I need to blur the lines. Listen, we don't lay down moral lines. God does. And, you know, I always liken it to this. When I was a kid and we would play football out in the street or on a field or whatever, we would have to say what was inbounds and what was out of bounds. Because you can't play football if there's no out of bounds. You know, you can't say, well, out of bounds is a mile to the right. You can run an out route and just keep running for a, long period of time because you're never out of bounds. Well, it doesn't work like that. A football field has to have, boundary markers so that you can play. Well. God has, set down the boundary markers. This is true, this is moral, and this other side of the line is immoral. The ten Commandments are boundary markers, and it tells us, the heart of God. And God just didn't willy nilly come up with this stuff. you shall not bear false witness. Why? Is that a commandment in the Bible? Commandment, number nine? You shall not bear false witness? Well, because God is truth. He abounds in loving kindness and truth. The Lord. The Lord, God, compassionate and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding in loving kindness and truth. So God hates false witness. He hates lying. What does he say in Revelation, chapter 21, verse 8. but for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and immoral people and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone. So with Jen Hatmaker, she has her daughter who says, I am gay. I'm a lesbian. And so then her, Jen's stance on, homosexuality starts to weaken. And as so many do, they choose their child over the word of God. well, I'm going to support my child because I love my child, and I'm going to support my child. Jesus said, if you love father and mother or son or daughter more than me, you're not worthy of me. And so we have to say, hey, child, I love you. But here's the truth. And this is what Jesus said. And you're barking up a wrong tree. You're never going to find satisfaction and joy and peace and fulfillment in life. Going that route because it doesn't exist there. who can have, peace and who can have enjoyment? Solomon said, without him, no one, because God has made us for himself. So she started to affirm, the LGBTKTQ community. This is Jen Hatfield. And, then it just started spiraling from there. Then she found out her husband was having an affair and she got divorced. Well, she went from her Peak around 2015 or so, 2016, to having all this influence speaking, all these conferences. About 1.5 million, followers on social media. Now she has about 600,000. She's down a lot. and it's because Christians said we can't follow that, you've departed from the faith and, departing from the doctrine. Her latest thing, I mean, it's not a big surprise, but when, you say there's no more hell, well, you're going against what the Lord has said. And so Jesus, in Mark, chapter nine, he says in verse 43 and following, if your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than having your two hands to go into hell into the unquenchable fire where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched. If your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter the life lame than having your two feet to be cast into hell where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched. If your eye causes you to stumble, throw it out. It is better for, for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than having two eyes to be cast into hell where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched, for everyone will be salted with fire. Now, obviously he's speaking in hyperbole there. He doesn't want us to cut off our hands and our feet, but he's saying, hey, this is so serious that it would be better for you to cut off your hand and your foot and put, pluck out your eye if it's causing you to stumble. He doesn't want anyone to go to hell. What do we read? The Final Judgment, Revelation, chapter 20, verses 11 through 15. The final judgment is the Great White Throne judgment. And the Great White Throne Judgment is a, frightening passage of scripture, and it is for all unbelievers. You want to know if you haven't put your faith and trust in Jesus and you wonder what the future holds for you. Let me tell you what it holds. And it's horrible. But here is the truth. Then I saw a Great White Throne, Jon said, and him who sat upon it, from whose presence earth and heaven fled away. And no place was found for them. And I saw the dead, the great and the small. Nobody escapes from this judgment who didn't put their faith and trust in Jesus. They're all going to appear before the Great White Throne. And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne. And behold, books were opened and another book was opened which is the book of life. And the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books according to their deeds. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them. And they were judged, every one of them, according to their deeds. What do you find when you ask people, ah, at the mall or just at the airport or just run of the mill folks, if you're going to be at a place that's a high trafficked area and you ask people this question, suppose you were to die and you just stand before God and he asks you, why should I let you into heaven? What would you say? And the answer, for those who don't know the Lord, it's almost always works. Well, I was a good person and I volunteered and I gave to the Salvation army and I did this and I did that and I did the other, and what a good boy I am. And people think that God is like Santa Claus. He's making a list and checking it twice, going to find out who's naughty and nice. And God has this big scale in heaven and he puts all your good works on one side and all your bad works on another side. And if your good works outweigh your bad works, you get to go to heaven. But if your bad works outweigh your good works, you don't get to go to heaven. It's kind of like Willy Wonka, you know, if you remember back, with that movie, he had this scale for a good egg or a bad egg. And if it was a bad egg, it was rejected. And God doesn't have a scale like that. If he did, and if we made it to heaven by our good works, guess what? No one would go there because all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. And the wages of sin is death. And nobody goes there. All our righteous deeds are as a filthy rag. Isaiah says before the Lord, anything, you're a sinner, I'm a sinner in and of ourselves. And anything that we touch, we're diseased with sin. And so even when we try and do something good, it's contaminated by sin itself. The only way you're saved is by the grace of God. And so the Lord is going to judge every one of these people according to their deeds and death. And Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. And if any man's name was not found written in the book of Life, he was thrown into the lake of fire. Guess what? Everybody at the Great White Throne. Judgment are people who, neglected Christ, out and out rejected Christ. they put it off. They said, no, I'll do that later. Later, later. And, the later never came. And they died without Jesus. And their name wasn't found in the book of life because they never said, jesus, son of David, have mercy on me. Save me. the Lord doesn't want anyone to go to hell, but hell is a real place. And Jesus told the parable in Luke 16. Whether it's a parable or an actual account, it's Lazarus and the rich man. the rich man is called in theological circles dives, because dives in Latin means rich man. And, what happens? They both die. Lazarus was obviously a believer. The rich man was not a believer. And where does a rich man wake up? In Hades. Now, Hades is the holding place of the unrighteous dead. And from Hades, you go have your day in court before the Lord, which I just read in Revelation, chapter 20, verses 11 through 15. And from there, you are sentenced to hell, what we know as Hell, the eternal lake of fire. Listen, that's why God sent his son, because we were all on the road that leads to eternal hell. God sent his son to die on the cross for your sins and my sins, so that we could be saved. Listen, be careful when it comes to those you follow. Check them out, be bereans, check out what they say and follow their lives, because many have gone out from us, but they were not really of us. Well, you're listening to Real Truth for today. Pastor Jeff Schrieve here on American Family Radio. We're up against a break. When we come back, we'll be taking your calls. 888-589-8840. That's triple 858-98840. If you have a question or you have a comment, I would love to hear from you. So pick up the phone and let's talk.

 : If you'd like to contact Pastor Jeff, email pastor jeffromhishheart.org now back to Real Truth for today with Pastor Jeff Schrieve.

Pastor Jeff Schreve: Welcome back to the program. Pastor Jeff. Here, we're talking about those who have fallen away. First, Jon, chapter 2, verse 19, says, they went out from us, but they are not of us. For if they had been of us, they would have remained with us. But they went out in order that it might be shown that they all are not of us. How do you tell who's a genuine Christian? They continue on with the Lord. The one who endures to the end, he shall be saved, because the one who endures to the end is saved. And the Lord will not let the let that person go. Jon, chapter 10. my sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me, and I give eternal life to them, and they shall never perish. And no, one shall snatch them out of my hand. The Lord holds us. We are kept. First Peter, chapter one. We are kept by the power of God. But there are those that, appear from the outside to be saved. We think they're saved. All the apostles thought Judas was saved. they trusted him, as it has well been said, he could have been the most trusted of all the 12 because they made him the treasurer. Jesus said, did I not choose you, the 12, and yet one of you is a devil. And he was speaking of Bible doesn't mince words there. He was speaking of Judas Iscariot. he was a devil. He was never a Christian who lost his salvation. He never had it. He followed Jesus for, reasons of personal gain. Jesus was like. He was like Amway to, Judas, man, I get in on this deal and I can get rich. Judas was a lover of money. Obviously, he stole from the collection plate. Jon 12 tells us that. And so Judas was just trying to. He ends up selling out Jesus for 30 pieces of silver, the price of a slave. He sells the great eternal God for a pittance. unbelievable. People do it all the time. And, by doing that, they sacrifice their eternal soul. There's nothing that you have, that I have, that we have been given that is of more value than your soul. What does it profit a man, Jesus said, if he gains the whole world and loses his soul? Or what will a man give in exchange for his soul? Now, as we read In Revelation chapter 20, the great white throne judgment, the future of every unbeliever. This is what's going to happen to them. They're going to stand before the throne. They're going to have to give an account to God one day, and they are going to be left speechless. And it says, Books were opened. Now, I think that one of the books that is opened is the word of God. And he's going to judge people based on His Word, based on what he said in his Word. People hate the Bible. The Bible says in the Book of Proverbs that the execution of justice is joy for the righteous, but it is terror to the workers of iniquity. And what happens at the Great White Throne? God, executes judgment and justice, and he's going to judge Everybody, with 100% pure, unadulterated justice. It's not skewed. There's no grace at the Great White Throne. It's just all justice. Okay? You thought you could earn your way to heaven. You thought you were good enough. You thought, what a great girl, what a great guy you are. I'm going to judge you. I, like what it says in the book of Ezekiel. Ezekiel, chapter 18, verse 29. But the house of Israel says the way of the Lord is not right. Are my ways not right, O house of Israel? Is it not your ways that are not right? Therefore, I will judge you, O house of Israel, each according to his conduct declares the Lord God. Repent and turn away from all your transgressions so that iniquity may not become a stumbling block to you. Cast away from you all your transgressions which you have committed, and make yourselves a new heart and a new spirit. For why will you die, O house of Israel? For I have no pleasure in the death of anyone who dies, declares the Lord God. Therefore repent and live. Repent in the NewSong Testament. Metanoia Change your mind. What you think about sin, what you think about self. You think about the Savior. Change your mind. Turn to him. Put your faith and trust in him. Turn away from sin and put your faith and trust in him, and he will save you. He came to save. That's what he is. He's a rescuer. He's a savior. And he's a friend that sticks closer than a brother. But if you reject him, if you reject his word, you know, if you say, well, that's, you know, homosexuality is not sin. That's just who I am. God's just going to have to deal with it. He's not going to deal with it. You don't. You don't put down the boundary markers of morality. He does. And he has told you, as Micah says. He has shown you, O man, what is good and what the Lord requires of you. He's shown us what is right and what is wrong. And in these days, I had my friend Phil Cook reach out and he was asking what is the need that the church is desperately looking for today? What is a big need? I said clarity. People need clarity. The church needs clarity. We're taking the out of bounds markers and we're blurring those lines or moving those lines and it is messing people up. They need to know, thus says the Lord, and this is true and this is false and this is inbounds. This is out of bounds. This is what God says is good and good for you. And this is what God says is evil and will destroy you. And we need to make that crystal clear to people. Well, we're going to the phone lines. 888-589-8840. And we have Thom on the line from Texas. Thom, welcome to Real Truth for today.

Caroline: Hi Pastor Jeff. I love your show and what an important topic. Appreciate all the scripture that you're bringing forward. my question is, I want to know. I'm confused as to where exactly we draw that moral line. I had a situation where I was invited to a Bible study and when they sent the materials for the week over, it was ah, it was written by Paul David Tripp. And I don't know if you know him, but he has a history of. I think he's a Christian, leader and psychologist. He might be a pastor, I don't know. But he has a long history of very good, you know, material, ah, and writings and so forth, several books and that.

Caroline: But lately in the last five years or so I had read that he appeared at some and spoke at some conferences with some real pro gay Christian leaders and. And if you look up his actual words, yeah, he's taken a turn and lost his way a bit. So I'm wondering if I was overreacting because I declined going to the Bible study because, you know, I saw the materials and one other thing and honestly I'm not trying to call you out on anything but a few days ago you said that you were listening to Alistair Begg and you quoted something he said. And now today you mentioned, you know, you shouldn't, you know, go to gay weddings, family members or whatever and afr. felt you know, his His action was was bad enough that they canceled his show. So should we be, you know, rejecting these. These leaders that give conflicting information, on this, particularly this subject? I, A very devout Christian years ago told me that homosexuality is, he felt, was one of the strongest, if not the strongest, demonic forces, and evils, in the world. And I believe that because they're trying to normalize it. It's not like other sin. They're trying to normalize it. So anyway, just, my question. I'm seriously confused about this as to where we draw the line.

Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yeah, great question, Thom. Well, as far as Alistair Begg goes, I think he was wrong on what he said. but Alistair Begg is not gay affirming, the situation with American Family Radio as they reached out to him and his folks. They never got to talk to Alister directly, but his folks were just kind of doubling down on what he said. And so AFR didn't want to be. I don't think anybody sees anybody in the conservative Christian, movement in those circles. They don't see Alistair Begg as somebody who's fallen away from the faith. He's somebody who's wrong in what he said. Based on 1 Corinthians 13:6. Jon MacArthur. You know, they had Alistair Begg speak at Jon MacArthur's funeral. so Jon MacArthur, he said, you know, affirmed, ah, Alistair as his friend and as a, laborer, you know, co laborer in the ministry. But he rejected what he said. He said that's wrong. And so I think there's a difference there. As far as Paul David Tripp, I haven't heard of anything that he said that would be gay affirming or anything like that. You know, sometimes these guys will go to a conference, they're asked to speak and they will say yes. And one of the reasons, it's not that they're giving their credence necessarily to that conference and every speaker at that conference, but they're like, this is an opportunity for me to share the truth. Jerry Falwell used to say, I would preach in hell if they promised to let me out when my sermon was done. And so we want to look for opportunities where we can hit people. So, from his Heart Ministries, we are on stations that we. That might have a lot of, very wild, charismatic, preachers, on there in addition to what we have. And so should we just say, I'm not going to be associated with that? Some say that, others say, hey, they have people that watch that station and we need this opportunity to tell them the truth. They can see the difference. I, remember a guy at TBN told me one time, he is one of their program, directors and he Said, jeff, you know, I really like your program. He said, I can tell you what the other guys are going to say because they're all in it for talking about money. He said, you don't do that. And he said, so I really like the fact that you teach the word of God. You ask people to check you out, be a Berean, Acts 17:11, and check it out with the word of God. So those are just different schools of thought, Thom. And as far as that Bible study goes, Yeah, I mean, if they were going to do a gin hatmaker book, I would say, forget it, I'm not doing that. But I don't think that, it would be wrong to study a Paul David Tripp book. And even with teachers, you can find things about maybe their doctrine that you don't agree with. That. Paige Patterson, when he was president of Southeastern Seminary, when I was there, he said, you can eat the fish without eating the bones. You can eat the watermelon without swallowing food, the seeds, and so be discerning. Now, if somebody rejects core tenets of the faith, you're not going to be able to. You need to shun that guy. but if they hold to, the tenets of the faith and the spine issues are solid, you can disagree on some of the rib issues I've shared before. I don't agree with Jon MacArthur on all his five points of Calvinism, but I've learned so much from him. So that would be my, my answer to that question. But I appreciate the question, Thom. I appreciate you calling. Well, we have Gary on the line from Texas. Gary, welcome to Real Truth for today.

Caroline: It's a, honor talking to you.

Pastor Jeff Schreve: Thank you, brother.

Caroline: I would like to, ask the question of. You talked about Lazarus and the rich man. Uh-huh. Well, did the rich man come to Jesus and he said, hey, man, I don't know. You. You need to go on? Or did he just go straight to Hades is my question.

Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yeah, well, okay, so there the, the question is, and it's. That story is found in Luke, chapter 16, verse 19. commentators go back and forth on this. Is this a real story that Jesus is telling, or is this a parable? It has some. Some, evidences of a parable, but it has names. Normally, parables didn't have names. Lazarus is a real name. Obviously, the rich man doesn't have a name in the, depart from me. I never knew you. I think that comes at the Great White Throne judgment, because that is the final judgment. So if A person dies without Christ, where do they go? They go to Hades. Hades is the dwelling place of the dead. And, it has two compartments, or it did have two compartments. And this is. Not everybody agrees with this interpretation, but everybody before Christ went to the same place. They went to Sheol. And Sheol had Paradise, which is the righteous dead, and Hades, which is the fiery, incarceration. That's where the rich man went. And so when Jesus died on the cross, he went to Paradise. He told the thieves, today, you will be with me in Paradise. He went to paradise, which is also called Abraham's bosom. He told those people, listen, you put your faith and trust in God's provision. I am God's provision. And you have been saved. And he emptied out Paradise. He took all those people to heaven. And, so in Sheol, now you just have Hades, you just have the place of the unrighteous dead. That's where everyone goes. it's a horrible place. It's kind of, like going to the county jail. And then you await your day in court. And from court then you're sent to the penitentiary. And so that's where, that's the holding place of the dead. It's much like hell, but it's not the eternal hell. It's not the Lake of Fire. And so then all those people at the end of it all, at the end of the millennial kingdom, after the thousand year reign of Christ, they're going to have the great White Throne, the final judgment. And from there they're cast into the Lake of Fire, which is torment forever and ever and ever. And, that's how I understand the Bible. People can disagree with that. those aren't spine issues, those are rib issues. And so good and godly people can disagree. That makes very good sense to me. And so I hope that's helpful for you. Well, thanks for listening to Real Truth for today. It's a joy for me to get to share with you every day. you can always go online, afr.net or just to YouTube real truth for Today and share these podcasts with friends and, family members, people that could be benefited by the teaching and by the interviews. So God bless you and let the Lord have his way in your life today.

1 John 2:18–19

"Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have appeared; from this we know that it is the last hour... They went out from us, but they were not really of us..."

In this episode, Pastor Jeff Schreve examines the growing reality of apostasy and the importance of remaining faithful to God's truth in the last days. Drawing from 1 John 2:18–19, he explains how false teachers and former Christian influencers can appear genuine for a time, only to later abandon the faith and lead others astray.

Pastor Jeff discusses the biblical warnings about deception, the rise of false teaching, and the need for believers to test everything against the Word of God. He also addresses the dangers of redefining biblical truth to fit cultural preferences and reminds listeners that God's standards do not change with the times.

This timely message challenges Christians to stand firm in sound doctrine, exercise discernment, and remain faithful to Jesus Christ. As the world grows increasingly hostile to biblical truth, believers are encouraged to hold fast to God's Word and endure in faith until the end.